The Debaters - 1820: Feared vs. Loved & Dress Up Your Pets

Episode Date: February 29, 2024

Lisa Baker and Lara Rae start breaking dread when they discuss if it’s better to be feared or loved. Then, Kathleen McGee and Sean Devlin refuse to sweater the small stuff when they debate dressing up pets.

Hi there, listeners. Steve Patterson here. If you're a frequent traveler like I am, you know that traveling's great. But as a wise young girl with fancy red shoes once said, there's no place like home. That's why when I travel, by myself or with my family, I often book Airbnbs for that homey touch. Like the one I stayed at in Stratford, Ontario recently, where I performed a show and took in some Shakespeare.

Though to be clear, I didn't perform Shakespeare. There's no perchance of that happening. I was not meant to be, or not to be. Anyway, my point is, I like the feeling of home when I'm on the road, and I feel like I'm not alone in this, especially when I'm traveling with my family, which got me thinking, when we're on the road, our house could be a home away from home for fellow travelers, too, if we host it on Airbnb. It just makes sense. Actually, it makes dollars. And those dollars could help pay for our next family trip. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at Airbnb.ca slash host.

Something to prepend on and on. This is a CBC podcast. This podcast is an extended version of The Debaters, which may contain more mature themes. To stream the radio-friendly version of this episode, download the CBC Listen app or go to cbc.ca slash the debaters. And thanks for listening to the CBC. Hey, Canada, we're going to give you the naked truth from Vancouver, BC, home of a clothing optional wrecked beach. It's the debaters!

The debaters where comedians fight with facts and funny. In this audience, it's the winner. Now here's a man who just knew you all showed up. Steve Patterson. Hey, Vax Graham. Hello, Canada. Welcome back to The Debaters. Always great to be back here in Vancouver, B.C., a city that isn't afraid to share.

Some listeners may not know that you share a name with an American city. Vancouver, Washington, which yeah, you can hear the aggression here in North Van. Vancouver, Washington, I imagine must be annoying to you here in North Van because you don't even like being mistaken for people that live in downtown Vancouver, Canada. I was at the airport lounge talking to an American man, and he asked where I was headed. I said, Vancouver. And he asked, Vancouver, Washington?

So on behalf of all of you, I said, that's not the real Vancouver. And then he said, but wasn't the American one named first? And I said, you were named first and stormed off. Anyway, are you ready to meet a pair of debaters who are 49th unparalleled? What do you say? Vancouver, Canada. This comic tried to assemble an Ikea bookcase and experienced shelf loathing. It's Newfoundland's Lisa Baker. Come on out, Lisa Baker. There she is. She always loves the bakes. Taking a spot to my right. Hi Steve. Hi Lisa. And this comic knows which side her butter is breaded on. Let's welcome Winnipeg's Laura Rae.

One of our favorites, taking her spot behind the lectern to my left. Your topic is one that demands respect. Is it better to be feared or loved? I can't say either way, but I think we all know the phrase, we have nothing to fear but fear itself, makes about as much sense as we have nothing to love but love itself. I love my daughters, Scarlett and Nora,

but I fear them more. Because they're both smarter than me. And they're both in the Francophone school system in Ontario, but I took French in the public school in the 1980s, which was only a little better than current day French classes here in British Columbia. So whenever I ask them to do their chores, they respond, No merci papa, fermez la bouche s'il vous plait.

Which I think means, you are our hero father. But I'm not sure and I'm too busy cleaning to look it up. Now for a debate that I fear you may love too much. So, whereas fear is not only motivating, it also inspires respect and loyalty. Be it resolved, it is better to be feared than be loved. Lisa, you arguing for this please? You have two minutes starting now. Lisa Baker.

The dictionary defines fear as an unpleasant emotion caused by the belief that someone or something is dangerous, likely to cause pain or a threat. Love is defined as an intense feeling of affection. Gross. I'll take fear any day. Fear has never resulted in me being a single mother. Fear is not just a great motivator, it is the greatest motivator. For example, I could run marathons if something was chasing me, right? Like a bear, or the police, or the CRA. I love wine, but my fear of hangovers resulting in the inability to trust a fart for two days keeps me from drinking an entire box. Yeah, I drink boxed wine, okay?

I'm a single mother. I'm pretty sure the whole we have ways of making you talk thing doesn't include a trail of rose petals, a make-out sesh, and Stevie Wonder songs. Kids don't try to behave at Christmas because they love Santa. They behave because they fear not getting a PS5. Love is dangerous.

Psychos aren't stalking us like prey and screaming for us to put the lotion in the basket out of terror. Fear keeps us safe. But love? Love means people drop by unannounced. The horror. Seems to me that fear is more likely to keep your life peaceful as long as you're terrifying. We all know that being feared will result in at least 87% less dicky bird pics in your inbox. That's a fact, probably.

Thank you. Lisa Baker on why it's better to be feared than to be loved. Now, here to ask and answer the question, what's love got to do with it? Apparently everything. Let's hear from Lara Ray. Lara Ray. Lisa Baker, I love you. For the love I have for you, and for all of you here,

is agape, one of the many types of love the ancient Athenians waxed upon. It seems the only thing these male Greek philosophers were afraid of were vaginas, which were also waxed upon. The importance of an emotion is measured by the amount we celebrate it in our culture. In music from Donna Zeddy's opera The Elixir of Love to the Beatles' Love Me Do, whether it's themed from a love boat or a love shack. It's endless love. In fact, that's another song, so I should get half a point. Now, staying with music, what about fear? Don't fear the reaper.

Bad advice. In fact, in the real world, and by the real world, I mean reality TV... Love is everywhere. Love Island. Love is blind. Fear? Fear? One show. Fear Factor. And what did that lead to, Lisa Baker? Making people scared of eating insects. The only food that's going to be left to eat in 35 years.

And to the Joe Rogan podcast, a show for people who are scared of everything. And by everything, I mean science and adult women. Almost all hatred is based on fear, except being scared of in phobia, are just basically saying, I'm afraid of stuff. Islamophobia, fear of Islam and Muslims. Fear of Iraq, arachnophobia. Fear is the biggest Embediment to normal Brain development than a child Next to Paw Patrol

Laughter Love Is the highest achievement of the cerebellum Fear lurks in the magdala The lizard part of the brain. I, for one, would not wish to be a lizard. They don't blink enough, and they have terrible skin.

Love for the win! I love you! I love you! I love you! Thank you! I love you! All right! On behalf of love and not fearing it, it is time now for the bare-knuckle round, debaters. We're debating if it's better to be feared than loved, so it's time to power up.

If your jokes are scary good, you'll have this audience hopelessly devotin' for you. So tell your opponent to kiss off and start breaking dread now. Lisa, my love. I understand why people are enthusiastic for these simple solutions. But like, for instance, the death penalty. If the death penalty worked, you'd only have to execute one person. When you throw people in jail and you punish them, it doesn't help them.

We have to rehabilitate people. We have to find the goodness in them and bring out the love. Lara, this isn't a real debate! You're not running for office, this is an RV way, like what are you doing? Steve Patterson is making puns! I work in social services and I'll often hug people into being better people in Winnipeg.

And I've only been stabbed 14 times. I've never had that problem. I just show them the knuckles in my purse, and everybody calms down. All right. That's the bare knuckle round, everybody. It's time now for the firing line. In my hand, I have a list of questions

on being loved or feared, brought to you by the love boat. The love boat, which thankfully never docked in Cape Fear. Machiavelli's famous quote, "'It is better to be feared than loved,' is actually only the first half of a longer sentence. What is the full quote? Lara?

It is better to be feared than loved first half of a longer sentence. What is the full quote? Lara? It is better to be feared than loved if you're surrounded by sharks. Three point answer. Lisa Baker? It is better to be feared than loved in marriage. That's true. That's true. And I do fear my wife a lot. The actual quote,

it is better to be feared than loved if one cannot have both. Psychcentral.com says fear-based parenting may include threats of a consequence, such as a timeout or what else? Lara? You keep that up, and we're moving to Winnipeg.

I can make that joke. The actual answer says fear-based parenting may include threats of a consequence, such as a timeout or having a toy taken away. Or a glare of death. That's what my dad would use. My dad would look at me and his look would say, I'm going to kill you. My dad would say, you're no son of mine. And there it is.

The curtsy. It's there. According to brainyQuote.com, what did Napoleon say is more to be feared than a thousand bayonets? Lisa? A newbie woman finding out bingo was cancelled. I gotta give...

I mean, that's at least five points. That's a good answer. According to brainyquote.com, what did Napoleon say is more to be feared than a thousand bayonets? Four hostile newspapers. Because in Napoleon's day, there were newspapers. In January 2020,

who was then U.S. President Donald Trump referring to when he said, we love each other? Lara? Stormy Daniels. Incorrect. Lisa? Spray cheese.

Spray cheese. Spray cheese,ay cheese Spray cheese The personal cosmetics line He was referring to Chinese President Xi Jinping And that's the firing line everybody We

are approaching the end of this debate, I think, and it's almost time for the audience to vote. But first, here to remind us that all you need is love, it's Lara Ray. Thank you. Thank you so much. I love you. Thank you so much. I love you. For 52 years, I lived in fear until eight years ago, I chose love and transitioned. Pause to let the audience marvel at how I don't remotely look 60. Sorry, I wasn't supposed to read that part out loud.

By choosing life and coming out as a trans woman, I chose love and boobs. Fear is a poison, just as sure as many of the so-called cures plugged on the Joe Rogan podcast. As for me, I'm an incurable romantic, and at this moment, for anyone that's interested, totally single. Thank you.

Hooray! On behalf of love, I love you. Now, here to rush in where angels fear to tread, let's hear from Lisa Baker. How is this even a debate at our grown age? It seems to me that fear is far more powerful and much more effective at keeping people in line or away altogether. As women we should be actively punching our way towards this. Down, up, haymakers, left hooks, whatever it takes. We've all heard love conquers all but fear has toppled empires. Sure there

may be a target on your back but just avoid overselling the threat of a missile attack, grassy knolls, and convertibles. Also, Abba songs, regardless of how catchy Waterloo is. Friggin' Napoleon, bye. Thank you. Lisa Baker!

Lisa Baker! I might have been too soon on the JFK thing, I think. That was how some people just found out. It is time to vote by applause. Who's voting for Lisa Baker? Only because they're terrified of her. Lisa Baker. Okay. Lisa Baker, only because they're terrified of her. Lisa Baker. Okay, some fearful applause there.

And who believes that Lara Love's labors lost nothing in translation, Lara Ray. All right, the winner is Lara Ray, Don't Fear the Love. Big hand for Lara Ray and Lisa Baker, everybody. You're listening to The Debaters on CBC Radio 1. Want to be a part of the debating action? For upcoming tour dates, visit cbc.ca slash the debaters. Hi there, listeners. Steve Patterson here.

You know, I get asked to emcee weddings a lot, and I'm happy to do it for close friends and family, especially when the wedding is somewhere fun, like, say, Reykjavik, Iceland. So my family and I booked an Airbnb in Reykjavik for a week, and it was awesome. There was plenty of room for all of us, and we met lots of locals in the neighborhood. And that made me think about how much our home would be appreciated by fellow travelers as an Airbnb, too, since usually it

just sits empty while we're away. It's in a great Toronto neighborhood full of restaurants, shops, and friendly people. It has room for a group of four to all have their own rooms. And honestly, we'd appreciate the house earning a bit of income to help with our next trip. Intrigued? Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at airbnb.ca slash host. And speaking of hosting, that couple I emceed the wedding for? Still married. That's how good I am. Though I guess I can't take all the credit for that. Anyway, let's get to this week's show. My name is Graham Isidore. I have a progressive eye disease called keratoconus. And being I'm losing my vision has been hard, but explaining it to other people has been harder. Lately, I've been trying to talk about it. Short Sighted is an attempt to explain what vision loss feels like by exploring how it sounds.

By sharing my story, we get into all the things you don't see about hidden disabilities. Short Sighted, from CBC's Personally, available now. Hey, North Van, are you ready to meet your next pair of debaters? Then so we shall. This comic once bought some chickens for a poultry sum. It's Edmonton's Kathleen McGee. Kathleen McGee, there she is, coming out, enjoying the welcome, taking her place behind the podium to my right.

And when this comic got caught selling a broken tripod, he didn't have a leg to stand on. It's Vancouver's Sean Devlin. Come on out, Sean. Welcome. Hello, Steve. Sean, to my left. Debaters, your topic is one that is very much in fashion.

Pets. Should we dress them up? I'll leave that to our two debaters to address. But generally, when we think of pets being dressed up, we think of dogs and cats. I say, don't limit your imagination. People already put horseshoes on a horse. Why not a turtleneck on a turtle? Or a cowl on an owl?

Or a garter on a snake? Because that could be...sexy. Anyway, here's a debate that is runway ready. So, whereas it provides animals with protection, style, and originality, be it resolved, it's great debate that is runway ready. So, whereas it provides animals with protection, style, and originality, be it resolved, it's great to dress up your pet. Kathleen, of course, you're arguing for this. You have two minutes.

Starting now, Kathleen McGee. Pets are the best. They love us unconditionally. Okay, dogs, not cats, but... They lower our blood pressure. They make us laugh. Isn't it up to us to make them comfortable? Putting clothes on our pets can keep them warm and dry,

and it's about time we don't make our pets walk around in the nude. It's cruel and barbaric that my dog must feel the humiliation of strangers being able to see their nipples. Pets deserve to be able to feel confident and smart in a stylish sweater or cute in a little dress or a tuxedo. I love dressing my pets up, and they tolerate it because they know that they live a better life than most humans. It's actually amazing to see your dog realize that he can bound through snow and stay warm in a full-body snowsuit.

Imagine telling someone, you're fine, you can do it naked, it's natural. Try going full nude for a week. Seriously, try. It's not going to be as much fun as some of you think it's going to be. Our pets mean so much to us now more than ever. 67% of people surveyed between the ages of 18 and 26 have opted to get a pet instead of having a child. We're winning! These are our babies and if you can put a stupid bow on your bald human child,

I can put a onesie on my chihuahua. Thank you, Steve. Kathleen McGee, ladies and gentlemen. Thanks, Kathleen. Now, here to give the subject of dressing up your pets a dressing down, let's hear from Sean Devlin. I love my dog. And that's why I do not dress him up. The British Veterinary Association says that we must remember

that pets are not fashion accessories. Pets can't understand fashion. I don't mean that they don't follow trends. I mean, they can't use mirrors. When cats and dogs look in the mirror, they often mistake themselves for another animal. That means that no matter how stylish my dog's outfit is, he never looks in the mirror and says,

wow, I look beautiful. No, instead he thinks, ah, crap. My nemesis looks particularly handsome today. So unlike human beings, nice clothes can't boost our pet's self-confidence. All you're doing is adding fuel to the fire that is their eternal conflict with reflective surfaces. Also consider this.

Pets don't care about fashion. Fancy fashion trends come and go with the seasons. But you know what's been trending with domesticated dogs for over 30,000 years? Just dirt. In the world of haute couture fashion, which if you don't know is French for ooh-la-la, ooh-la-la.

These fancy fashion designers, they follow the four Ps. Posture, patterns, prints, and pleats. But dogs follow their own four Ps. A pee-pee and a poo-poo. And it's a beautiful thing, It's a really beautiful thing. Because animals have simpler desires than us. That's why we love our pets, because they remind us that true joy can be found in modest, often disgusting things.

Why would I get my dog a bow tie when he would be so much happier smelling a stranger's butt? That is why you should not dress up your pets. Thank you. Sean Devlin, his first opening argument for us, and it's a good one.

The calmness of your argument is very disarming, I find. Talking about dressing up your pets and it's time now for the Bare Knuckle Round. We're debating whether it's great to dress up your pet so after a brief pause it's time to put the booties to your opponent and ensure you stay in the here and meow. I've got a haunch that if you unleash with some killer poncho lines, you'll win best in show. Just stay calm and don't sweater the small stuff. Go fetch some laughs, starting now.

Kathleen... You are disarming. I am disarming, but... I'm hoping to be disrobing. There's a way I meant that, and I hope you understand. Yeah, that's fine! Bad! Kathleen says that we should stop making our pets walk around naked. But nobody's making them.

A dog has never woken up in the morning and then put on pants. You've obviously never met my dog, Eugene. He's got these little booty shorts. They're so cute. What are the names of your dogs, Kathleen? Eugene and Dottie. Okay.

And my cats are Judy and Maybe. I don't care about the cats. No one ever does. No one ever does. That's a different debate. It's a different debate. Cat lovers, you're welcome to listen. Eugene and Dottie,

I hope you're listening right now. Despite Kathleen's accusations, I have never personally seen your apparently embarrassing nipples. But I don't judge them. You should be proud. You're like one of those free-the-nipple freaks, aren't you? You like those nipples out loud and proud.

Except if it's a woman. You would never want to see a woman's nipple. Never have, never will. Okay, all right. That's the bare-knuckle round. I really wanted to stop it before it turned into the bare nipple round, but. You said the safe word. It is time now for the firing line.

In my hand, I have a list of questions on dressing up your pet, brought to you by the designer clothing line for pigs, Calvin Swine. Love it. I love that. I love that one. According to AmericanKennelClub.org, when dressing up your pet, what should you avoid? Kathleen.

Skinny jeans. The answer's not skinny jeans, but I'll give you a point. Sean? Avoid direct eye contact with your pet. Who, to be clear, hates this. It's like I'm interacting with Hal from Space Odyssey. When dressing up your pet, you should avoid dyes and glitter, which might be toxic. Good tip. Coyote Vest is a California-based company that sells protective vests for dogs,

complete with defensive spikes and puncture-proof fabric. What is Coyote Vest's slogan? Sean? We hope you don't like hugging your pets. Oh, for the listening audience at home, you're not going to believe this. He moved during that one. Incorrect. Yours to steal if you want, Kathleen. Kathleen McGee.

Try and swallow this Chihuahua. You won't like it. That's a good guess. Coyote Vest's slogan is, Not today, coyote! Not today! And that's the firing line, everybody. Yeah!

Well, it is almost time again for our fantastic North Van Centennial Theatre audience to vote. But first, here again to tell us why dressing up your pet is his biggest pet peeve, let's hear again from the electrifying... Sean Devlin! Oh. Here's a good reason to not dress up your pets. Veterinarians say it might kill them. Dr. Eddie Clutton, a professor in veterinarian anesthesiology,

says that often cats get their clothing stuck on things and then choke and die. He says, quote, dressing them up is dangerous and reflects more on the owner than the animal. Clothing can irritate your pet's skin. You know what else is irritating? Dying young. So if you want your animals with increased chances of staying alive, don't dress them up.

If not for them, at least do it so you can stop getting insulted by a man named Professor Eddie Clutton. Thank you. Sean Devlin with an excellent closing argument on why you shouldn't dress up your pet. Now, here to tell us why dressing up your pets is a subject that's very close to her heart,

let's hear again from Kathleen McGee. I have two dogs and two cats. Thank you. They love their matching Costco hoodies. They love them because I tell them they do. They love dressing in hilarious costumes for Halloween, so I can post pictures online and make people laugh at their expense.

They are pets. They are here to make us happy, and nothing makes me happier than seeing my dogs dressed up as a nun and the pope. Because it's the cutest! Seriously, go to Kathleen underscore McGee on Instagram, scroll down a little bit to October, it's the cutest! Seriously, go to Kathleen underscore McGee on Instagram. Scroll down a little bit to October. It's there. You'll die. You will die!

My dog, Eugene, kills it in his parka and matching booties at the dog park on the weekend. He knows it's fashion, and if you don't get it, honey, it's not his problem. Thank you. Kathleen McGee says, dress up your pets. Sean says, no thanks. And it's up to the audience to decide by applause who loved how Kathleen fashioned her argument

in favor of dressing up your pets. Kathleen McGee. Okay, some support there for Kathleen. And who thought that Sean jumped on the subject of dressing up your pet like a dog on a bone and catnipped it in the bud? Sean Devlin. Well, the audience has spoken.

They do not want the pets dressed up. The winner is Sean Devlin. Big hand for Sean Devlin and Kathleen McGee, everybody. Well, that's all for this week. I'm Steve Patterson saying whether or not you dress up your pet, it's important not to dress them down in public. I'll argue with you again soon, Canada. Good night.

The Debaters is created by Richard Side. This week's episode was produced by Nicole Callender, Chloe Edbrook, Dean Jenkinson, and Graham Clark. With continuity by Graham Clark, Diana Francis, and Gary Jones. Technical production by James Perella and Annie Kennedy. Story editing by Gary Jones. With special thanks to Katie Ellen Humphries and David Pride. Executive producer of CBC Radio Comedy is Lee Pitts. by Gary Jones. With special thanks to Katie Ellen Humphries and David Pride.

Executive producer of CBC Radio Comedy is Lee Pitts. And thanks to everyone at the Centennial Theatre in North Vancouver. For more CBC podcasts, go to cbc.ca slash podcasts.