The Debaters - 1826: Spending vs. Saving & Taylor Swift Fans

Episode Date: April 18, 2024

Is spending superior to saving? Dave Hemstad and Jon Steinberg account for themselves in this budgetary battle. Then, Nour Hadidi and Don Kelly fan the flames when they decide if Taylor Swift has the world’s greatest fans.

Hi there, Steve Patterson here. You know, I travel a lot for work on my own, so when I can do a trip where I get to bring my wife Nancy and our daughters along, I jump at it. On a recent trip to Ottawa, we booked an Airbnb. It was a nice home in a nice neighborhood, and it even had room for our dog Ferris, which was also nice. And that made me think, hey, maybe our home in Toronto would be a nice place to stay for some nice people too, since it sits empty while we're away. And honestly, it would be great if our house started bringing in some extra cash to put towards the next trip. Because frankly, Ferris keeps screwing up in his job interviews. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at airbnb.ca slash host. This is a CBC Podcast.

This podcast is an extended version of The Debaters, which may contain more mature themes. To stream the radio-friendly version of this episode, download the CBC Listen app or go to cbc.ca slash The Debaters. And thanks for listening to The CBC. Hey Canada, we're ready to dot our I's and cross our T's. From TDOT, Toronto, Ontario, it's The Debaters! The Debaters, where comedians fight with facts and funny, and this audience picks the winner. Now here's a man who suits us to a T.

Steve Patterson! Hey! Thank you, Darren Clark! Hello, Canada! Welcome back to The Debaters! Yeah, we are here with a boisterous Toronto, Ontario crowd. Listen to that, Canada! Toronto is a place that is all fun and games

until someone raises property taxes, isn't it? In fact, there is now a Toronto version of the game Monopoly. True! It allows players to buy local landmarks like the CN Tower and Nathan Phillips Square, unless you get stranded on the QEW in that tiny silver race car. Then you might want to take an alternative form of transportation by pulling a Do Not Pass Go train card. The updated version even has a strip of property you can land on

called the Green Belt. But if you try to build houses on that, you'll go directly to jail, won't you? Yes. Now it's time to meet two debaters who have a monopoly on laughs. This comic tried making his own fireworks, but the idea blew up in his face. It's Toronto's Dave Hempstead. Dave Hempstead making Dave Hempstead!

Making his way to the podium to my right. Hey, Steven. Always fancy, always ready. And this comic once got acupressured into giving a friend a massage. It's Ottawa's own electrifying John Steinberg! John Steinberg! John Steinberg! Hey Steve. Hey my friend.

How are you doing? Always a pleasure to have you back. Thank you. Well, your topic is one that could save the day but might leave you spent. Spending. Is it superior to saving? Since these debaters are two of our finest, this debate is already priceless, as far as I'm concerned.

Yes. Except for those who paid to be here in the theater tonight. There was a nominal fee. But for those listening on CBC Radio 1, it's priceless, right? If you don't pay taxes. This is time for a debate that you can take to the bank. So, whereas it allows people to live in the present and enjoy the fruits of their labors, be it resolved when it comes to money, spending is superior to saving. Dave, you're arguing for this, please, my friend.

You have two minutes. Starting now, Dave Hempstead. Thank you, Steve. People always ask you, how did you spend your time? Where did you spend your summer? Oh, that was time well spent. The minute you walked in the room, I could tell you were a real big saver.

I mean, maybe if I'd had tassels on, we could have got that there. I almost bought some, too. I had them in my hand, but I decided to save my money. And now we're all paying the price. The only people who should be worried about saving are goalies. Because saving is how they make spending money. Money is really fun tickets

for all the different rides in the carnival of life. If the pandemic has taught us anything, it's that we don't know when the carnival is going to close. So use your tickets while you camp. My grandfather would famously bury cookie jars stuffed with cash around his farm because he didn't trust the banks. He was an old Scrooge, like all savers. And he passed away with those jars still in the ground.

Yeah, we never did find them. I wish he'd spent money on a map. But I digress. The whole point of saving is so that you can someday spend. Do you know how much you spend on bank fees to save your money? I'll tell you something about banks. They're richer than you think.

Savers like John and my grandfather live in a faraway fantasy place called Someday. I believe that you should carpe diem. And if you don't speak Latin, that means buy the damn tassels. Thank you. Dave Hempstead!

On behalf of senders everywhere. Now, here to tell us why hoarding his money is his one saving grace, let's hear from the thrifty money, or John Steinberg socks available for purchase in the lobby after the show. And I know I'm supposed to be arguing in favor of saving, but I'm saving you guys from looking unfashionable with your tired old socks. I'm sure you've all heard about the benefits

of delaying gratification. Personally, I can't wait for this thing to be over. Yeah, so I can stop all this talking, and just get drunk and pass out. And I'm tempted to do that right now. But I know if I just wait till the show's over, I'll be less fired. But if you have kids, you know you need to train them. No TV till you finish your homework.

No dessert till you finish your homework. No dessert till you eat your vegetables. We can go for ice cream after you crawl into that narrow cave opening. And retrieve the I remember when Blu-ray players first came out. I really wanted one, but they were $1,000. So I decided I would put aside just one loonie a week in this giant pickle jar and it actually didn't take that long before the pickles started tasting metallic And a while after that, after a thousand weeks, I got all my loonies together. I thoroughly rinsed them. I took them to Best Buy. And I said, give me a Blu-ray player.

And they said, those don't exist anymore. Thank you. John Steinberg, ladies and gentlemen. Yeah. Just as consistent as always, I three or four times had to check, to double-check what you were arguing about. You are arguing on behalf of saving.

Quite a walk, John, quite a walk. It's time now for the bare-knuckle round. We're debating whether spending is superior to saving, so remember, it's better accumulate than never. As you follow your RSP for success. A simple formula here is out go the jokes and in come the laughs. So give us your best bitcoins of comedy now. Dave, this crowd isn't concerned with having the newest phone or keeping up with the latest trends. with having, like, the newest phone or keeping up with the latest trends, these are people that listen to radio comedy.

LAUGHTER Uh-oh. No, but I bet you'd like them to spend money on those socks you're paddling. You're not making much of a case for saving here, John, but I'll tell you this much. Nobody spends in order to save. People save in order to spend.

The only person who ever spent in order to save was my granddad when he bought those cookie jars. And we saw how that turned out. I did. Actually, we shouldn't be arguing. We should be teaming up to look for those cookie jars, and we saw how that turned out. I did. Actually, we shouldn't be arguing. We should be teaming up to look for those cookie jars. That, uh, that old farm is now a subdivision, John. We never found the jars, so we couldn't pay the bank.

We lost the farm because Granddad saved. Saving ruined our family. Don't you see? Spending is the better way. Well, how about Lifesavers? You remember those? Candies with holes in them. They're fantastic. Okay, that's the Bare Knuckle Round, everybody.

Dave Hepstad, John Steinberg, Spending versus Saving. It's time now for the firing line. In my hand I have a list of questions on spending versus saving, brought to you by parking valets. Parking valets. When cashing in on investing tips, means putting cash tips in vests.

Investopedia.com says when it comes to money, you should follow the 50-30-20 rule. Spend 50% of your income on essentials, save 20%, and spend the remaining 30% on what? John. A subscription to Investopedia Premium. Two points. Dave Amstad. You spend the other 30% on credit card interest. Because there's no way 50% is covering your essentials. That's a good point.

That's a good point. That's a good point. The answer here is things you want. Spend the remaining 30% on things you want but don't really need. Or a lawyer to explain why you've never paid your taxes.

In the 1985 comedy Brewster's Millions, why does Richard Pryor's character have to spend $30 million in 30 days? John? He got a rive can contract. That is ripped from the headlines. In Brewster's Millions, Richard Pryor's character has to spend $30 million

as a condition to inherit $300 million. According to the book Happy Money, the Science of Happier Spending, people report being happier when they spend money on what? John? Opioids. The real answer is, what was the question? According to the book, Happy Money, The Science of Happier Spending,

people report being happier when they spend money on what? On whatever makes them happy. The answer's in the question. It's right there. We don't even need it. Dave, you will be shocked to learn that the answer is others rather than themselves. Oh, that's nice. That's nice. The point is spending's good, though, right? That's the firing line, everybody.

It's just about that magical time when our Danforth audience votes. But first, here again to tell us why he'd never watch a movie called Spending, Private Ryan, let's hear again from John Steinberg. I'll admit that buying things is always going to be more popular than not buying things. But you know what's even better than buying things? Buying things on sale. That's like saving while you're spending.

Yeah. Yeah, I would be excited to buy a flat-screen TV at full price, but I wouldn't be trampling old lady excited. Ha, ha, ha. but I wouldn't be trampling old lady excited. The word save is only associated with positive things. That's why people love firemen, because they're always saving stuff. Yeah, they'll save a family from a burning building. They'll save a cat that's stuck in a tree.

You notice you can save a cat, but you can't spend a cat? Unless you're buying John Steinberg custom socks. Because we now accept cats as payment. Thank you. John Steinberg really socked it to us on that last argument. No cats were harmed during that joke. Thank you, John. Now, here to tell us about his urge to splurge,

let's hear again from the freewheeling big spender himself, Dave Hempstead. Did you ever listen to a story about how somebody saved money? It's the worst. See this shirt? What do you think I paid for it? Go on, guess. Guess. You'll never believe how much I saved.

I wish you'd saved your breath. What you should save is the last dance. But that's so you can spend time with someone you love. Yeah. You dance all night until one of you says, I'm spent. I can only imagine the disappointed dancers in John's rear view mirror.

Give me all you got, John. No. I'm saving it for next time. Folks, you only have one vote to give tonight, so spend it wisely. And if you agree with John, then by all means, save your applause. Thank you. Dave Hempstead. Well done, my friends. Well done. Thank you. Dave Hepstad.

Well done, my friends. Well done. The audience has a lot to think about and not a lot of time to think, so let's just get to it. It is up to you to decide, ladies and gentlemen. By applause, who enjoyed all of John's sensible sentences on saving that he'd set aside for this rainy day? John Steinberg.

Oh, my gosh. Woo! That is a lot of love for John. And how many of you thought that listening to Dave's outlay of laughs and logic was time well spent? Dave Hamstack. Oh, my God. This is so close.

The audience loved them both. I don't know what to do. There's no way to decide. I love you both. It's a tie. It's a tie. Big hands for Dave Hestad and John Steinberg, everybody. You're listening to The Debaters on CBC Radio 1.

Want to be a part of the debating action? For upcoming tour dates, visit cbc.ca slash the debaters. Hi there, listeners. Steve Patterson here. If you're a frequent traveler like I am, you know that traveling's great. But as a wise young girl with fancy red shoes once said, there's no place like home. That's why when I travel, by myself or with my family, I often book Airbnbs for that homey touch.

Like the one I stayed at in Stratford, Ontario recently, where I performed a show and took in some Shakespeare. Though to be clear, I didn't perform Shakespeare. There's no perchance of that happening. I was not meant to be, or not to be. Anyway, my point is, I like the feeling of home when I'm on perform Shakespeare. There's no perchance of that happening. I was not meant to be, or not to be. Anyway, my point is, I like the feeling of home when I'm on the road, and I feel like I'm not alone in this, especially when I'm traveling with my family, which got me thinking, when we're on the road, our house could be a home away from home for fellow travelers, too, if we hosted on Airbnb.

It just makes sense. Actually, it makes dollars. And those dollars could help pay for our next family trip. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at Airbnb.ca slash host. Something to prepend on and on. Hey there, I'm David Common. If you're like me, there are things you love about living in the GTA and things that drive you absolutely crazy. Every day on This Is Toronto, we connect you to what matters most about life in the GTA, and things that drive you absolutely crazy. Every day on This Is Toronto, we connect you to what matters most about life in the GTA,

the news you've got to know, and the conversations your friends will be talking about. Whether you listen on a run through your neighbourhood, or while sitting in the parking lot that is the 401, check out This Is Toronto wherever you get your podcasts. Toronto, I've got just one question for you. Are you ready to meet your next pair of debaters? That sounds like a yes. This comic's idea to sell online soft drinks

failed due to the unfortunate name of e-cola. It's Toronto's Noor Hadidi! Noor Hadidi making her way across the stage to my right. Always a pleasure. Thank you. Hi Steve. Hi Noor. And this comics podcast that only catered to Olympic divers was unable to find a big enough platform. It's Ottawa's Don Kelly! Don Kelly is here! Hi Don! Hey Steve! Welcome. This topic, believe it or not, gets not just debated here but is actually a university course in some places. Taylor Swift. Are her fans the best?

That is for you two debaters to battle out. So chiming in wouldn't be too Swifty of me. Instead, I'm going to talk about Justin Bieber, whose fans are known as Beliebers, because it's hard to Belieb he partnered with Tim Hortons and called his doughnuts Tim Biebs. I'm not sure what die-hard fans of the Debaters are called, maybe Patterpundits, or maybe, given your appreciation for intelligent Canadian laughs and logic, just Happy Smarties, which

is not that great, but it still sounds better than Tim Biebs. Anyway, it's time for a debate that we'll get to swiftly. So, whereas Swifties form a tight-knit community, display an unmatched devotion, and continue to set record-breaking sales numbers, be it resolved that Taylor Swift has the world's greatest fans. Noor, you are arguing for this, please. You have two minutes. Starting now, Noor Hadidi.

Thank you, Steve. As most debaters fans know, I am Arab, I'm Muslim, I'm an immigrant. But the group that I belong to that faces the most hardships in life is called Fans of Taylor Swift. I was judged, persecuted even, you know? And it's not fair, because we don't make fun of the music you guys listen to.

Yeah, like jazz? That's just sound. Yeah, you know what the top 10 songs of all time have in common? Lyrics. I have been a Swifty since 2009, and on some level, I feel like everyone is a Swiftie. Let me show you. She wears short skirts. I wear t-shirts. She's cheer captain and I'm on the bleachers. Well, I was hoping for a bigger response there. Not gonna lie. I thought that was pretty good. That was pretty good. A lot of teenaged girls in the crowd. If Swifties are the greatest fans it's because Taylor has shown no signs of That was pretty good. It's pretty good. A lot of teenaged girls in the crowd. If Swifties are the greatest fans, it's because Taylor has shown no signs of stopping herself after 18 years in the music business.

She just won the Super Bowl in her rookie year in the NFL. And most people don't know this about Taylor. She is a singer, songwriter, and architect. Yeah, because that girl can write a bridge. All right. And listen, sure, as a group, we're not perfect. Some of us are aggressive and need to be reined in. But that doesn't mean that we're not the greatest fans.

We got explicit AI images of her taken down online, she publicly called on us to help stop her masters being sold, and we made her a billionaire. So I think we're doing pretty good. And yes, one person, okay. And you know, the reason we love her so much is because as women, we felt seen or heard by one of her songs.

It's not easy being a woman in a world built by cis men for other cis men. That's why God created men like Steve and Dawn and. Representing Taylor Swift. Now, to tell why there's so much bad blood between him and Taylor Swift's fans, let's hear from Don Kelly. Yeah, Noor, I know what you're thinking as I begin. Old, out of touch, clueless about pop culture. And I respond, what a terrible thing to say about CBC listeners. That's right. I actually know a lot about Taylor Swift. Don't ask me how.

I was just asking my 20-something niece that the other week too, and she filled me in. We used to play it together. So I won't be criticizing Taylor Swift. The last thing I need to be is attacked and humiliated by a bunch of teenage girls. I got enough of that in high school. Takes me back. That's the problem with Taylor Swift's fans. They're a mindless mob. I mean, think about it. Taylor will say at her concert, she'll stand up, they're all empowerment. And remember, you're special because you're an individual. And 50,000 teenage girls say in unison, yeah. And that kind of control is scary,

right? Like what if she snaps? It's like support women's rights. Yeah. And support progressive causes. Yeah. And let's send all the immigrants back where they came from. Yeah. Whoa, wait, wait a minute. What was that last one? And... And I'm First Nations, I'm not totally against it, but, you know... I'd even go to a Taylor Swift concert, except for her fans. They're screaming along to every song. I'm there to hear Taylor Swift, not Madison and Lavender from Oakville.

I want to hear Taylor. You don't want to go to the opera and have the dude beside you yodeling along to the Marriage of Figaro. Yodeling what they do at the opera. I don't know. He's yodeling what they do at the opera stage. Taylor is fine, but her fans are the worst. Noor, I thought that was something we could agree on,

but it looks like we are never, ever getting back together, so shake it off, because you need to calm down. And by the way, Swift fans will know, all those song titles were in chronological order of release. Thank you. John Kelly, relentless research as always. It is time now for the Bare Knuckle Round. We're debating whether Taylor Swift's fans are the most fans-tastic, so time to fill up this blank space.

If only the debater before hadn't done 14 of these song titles, I bet. It's time to fill up this blank space and make the audience say, you belong with me. If you tailor your argument, it will be music to our eras. The winner of this debate can bask in the afterglow, but you only have two minutes, so speak now. All right. Don, are you really telling me you've never, um, enjoyed listening to a Taylor Swift song? I actually know some of the lyrics. When you cued those lyrics, I knew the responses to those.

So, actually, my wife is very proud of me, my niece is very proud of me. You know who's not proud of me? Who? Is the 14-year-old Don Kelly who was moshing in the black flag mosh pit. Yeah, exactly Don. You're married. You don't, these songs are not for you, okay? These songs are for women who live in Toronto in their mid to late 30s, okay?

Who are looking for love and trying to date, you know, like me. You know, like, I just started seeing someone, and I can't wait to tell him. No, no, no, I'm joking, I'm joking, I'm joking. He knows, he knows, he knows. Deep down, you know, he really knows. He belongs with you. He belongs with me, absolutely. It sounds like you're one of those long-distance relationships,

the ones where you have to stay 500 meters away at all times. That's the Bare Knuckle Round, everybody. All right, I hope you're keeping sore in your head, and I hope Taylor appreciates this promo, because you can't find anyone talking about her anywhere else. It's time now for the firing line. In my hand, I have a list of questions on Taylor Swift's fans,

brought to you by TaylorMadeSuits. For Swifties who mean business. CBC News reports a Kamloops BC woman listened to over 30,000 minutes of Taylor Swift music on Spotify in the year 2023 alone, which means she's what? Noor. She's alienated all the men in her life.

I will give a point for that. Don Kelly. 30,000 minutes. It means she's my age and doesn't know how to change a point for that. Don Kelly. 30,000 minutes. It means she's my age and doesn't know how to change a playlist on Spotify. There it is. Three point answer. Don has identified the sweet spot of the crowd

and he's going to it. My people. He is going to the well. 30,000 minutes of Taylor Swift music on Spotify puts her in the top 0.05% of Taylor Swift listeners on Spotify worldwide. Also unemployed, probably unemployed. According to a report in Forbes magazine, what did Travis Kelsey have to do after he began dating Taylor Swift? Nora Hadidi. He had to learn how to read.

Simmer down, everybody. Playbooks have X's and O's. Don Kelly? He had to be emotionally prepared to be publicly trashed in a breakup song that will be heard by 500 million people. That's true. That is true. That's a good answer.

Also, he had to move out of his house because her fans were always nearby. Sometimes you're just in Kansas City, Missouri. Okay? Sometimes you're there. Well, Nora, he's not in Kansas anymore. In July 2023, Taylor Swift fans who attended two nights of concerts in Seattle were responsible for what record-breaking phenomenon? Don?

In Seattle, the most times Kurt Cobain ever rolled over in his grave. That's a good answer. Dawn is going through all the generations here this evening. Noor Hadidi. The amount of girls crying near the space needle. That's a good, that is a nice answer. It's a good geographic reference. Four points.

They actually broke the record for seismic activity equivalent to a 2.3 magnitude earthquake. They almost literally shook it off. And that's the firing line, everybody. Well, it's almost time for the audience to vote. But first, here again to remind us why anyone worshipping TS is full of BS sort of let's hear from the only DK I like to call Don Kelly

all right why don't I like Taylor Swift fans bottom, they're kids. And you know what? I hate kids. I mean, I know I shouldn't generalize like that. Okay, okay. I hate your kids. And I know when it comes to kids, hate is a strong word. Anyway. Anyway, here's the thing. I don't have to argue that Swifty has the worst fans, just not the greatest fans. I mean, Noor, you touched on it. The greatest fans have to work to remain fans, like fans of jazz, right?

Yes. A whole genre of music where it sounds like the band is practicing. But audience, as you prepare to vote for the winner, just let me say we all know who the world's greatest fans are. CBC Debater fans! Thank you. John Kelly, everybody. Yeah, pandering for the ages.

Now, here to tell us why being a fan of Taylor Swift makes all your wildest dreams come true. Let's hear again from Noor Hadidi. Let's just ask ourselves, what happens after a wonderful Taylor Swift concert takes place? Thousands of people go home, happy after singing their hearts out.

And you know what? The US economy is balanced, huh? Let's compare that to the work of other fan bases, shall we? What happens after a Leafs game? Every single white man in Ontario goes home brokenhearted, okay? So drunk, he might just light up a car on his way home. What happens, I ask you, after a Don Kelly comedy show?

Everyone demands a refund. They have no loyalty to you, Don. It's disgusting. I'm sorry. I don't know what to say. And yeah, sure, CBC debaters fans, they're great. But no offense, they're mostly middle-aged white people who have ruined the earth

and the reason I can't afford to live in Toronto, so... You'll excuse me for not calling them the greatest, except, of course, the ones here in the audience tonight who will vote for me. Thank you. Nora Hadid-y on why Taylor Swift fans are the greatest audience. It is up to you to pick a winner.

By applause, who agreed with Don that Taylor's overly fanatical fans deserve a swift kick in the pants? Don Kelly. Yay. That's a lot of support. And how many of you felt that Noor's supportive, swifty speech was working in concert with you, Noor Hadidi? Pretty close.

That's pretty close. I don't know. I'm looking to my producer, Nicole Callender. As usual, she has chickened out on her responsibility. We have a tie. It is inconclusive. Big hand for John Kelly and Nora Deedy, everybody. Well, that's all for this week.

I'm Steve Patterson saying in Taylor Swiftian fashion, it's me. Hi. I'm the host here. I'm Steve Patterson-Singh in Taylor Swiftian fashion. It's me. Hi. I'm the host here. I'm Steve. I'll argue with you again soon, Canada. Good night! The Debaters is created by Richard Side. This week's episode was produced by Nicole Callender, Chloe Edbrook, Dean Jenkinson, and Graham Clark. With continuity

by Graham Clark, Diana Francis, and Gary Jones. Technical production by James Perella and Todd Reimer. Story editing by Gary Jones. With special thanks to Katie Ellen Humphries, David Pride, and Emily Ferrier. Executive producer of CBC Radio Comedy is Lee Pitts. And thanks to everyone at the Danforth Music Hall in Toronto.