The Debaters - 1903: Audiobooks vs. Books & The Ballet

Episode Date: September 19, 2024

Matt Falk and Lara Rae are not on the same page when they discuss if audiobooks are superior to books. Then, DeAnne Smith and Courtney Gilmour are on pointe when they go toe-to-toe on whether nothing beats a night at the ballet.

Hi there, listeners. Steve Patterson here. You know, I get asked to emcee weddings a lot, and I'm happy to do it for close friends and family, especially when the wedding is somewhere fun, like, say, Reykjavik, Iceland. So my family and I booked an Airbnb in Reykjavik for a week, and it was awesome. There was plenty of room for all of us,

and we met lots of locals in the neighborhood. And that made me think about how much our home would be appreciated by fellow travelers as an Airbnb too since usually it just sits empty while we're away. It's in a great Toronto neighborhood full of restaurants, shops, and friendly people. It has room for a group of four to all have their own rooms and honestly we'd appreciate the house earning a bit of income to help with our next trip. Intrigued? Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at airbnb.ca slash host. And speaking of hosting,

that couple I emceed the wedding for? Still married. That's how good I am. Though I guess I can't take all the credit for that. Anyway, let's get to this week's show. This is a CBC Podcast. This podcast is an extended version of The Debaters, which may contain more mature themes. To stream the radio-friendly version of this episode, download the CBC Listen app or go to cbc.ca slash The Debaters.

And thanks for listening to The CBC. Hey Canada, winner's gotta win. From Winning Winnipeg, it's The Debaters! The Debaters, where comedians fight with facts and funny, and this audience picks the winner. Now here's a man who knows how to win, lose, and guffaw, Steve Patterson Hey! Thank you Graham Clark! Hello Canada!

Welcome back to The Debaters. We are here in beautiful Winnipeg. Yes! A city that can really inspire. In fact, back in the 1930s, local cartoonist Charles Thorson was inspired by a restaurant server right here in Winnipeg and drew the title character of Disney's Snow White. True story. He also drew the seven dwarfs while in Winnipeg, but had to make a trip to Parliament instead for inspiration on Dopey, Grumpy, and Sleepy.

Yeah. It's time now to meet two animated debaters who like to whistle while they work. This comic took flying lessons as part of a pilot project. It's Winnipeg's Matt Fogg! Welcome back, Matt Fogg! There he is! Matt Fogg, always entertaining.

Always good to see you. Hi, everybody. And when this comic shakes hands with a dog, she takes great pause. It's Winnipeg's Lara Ray! Lara Ray, one of our very favorites, taking the stage and walking across to the podium.

To my right. Welcome back, Lara. Thank you. Your topic is one that we're glad we booked time for. Books! Is listening to them better than reading them? If I'm being honest, I've never actually listened to a full audiobook because I always feel like the person's voice who did the recording

isn't close enough to mine and it takes me out of the story. But that is unfair to one side of this debate. So for the sake of impartiality, I'll tell you, I've never actually read a full book. Because then I hear my own voice in my head and it takes me out of the story. It's time now for a debate that has some novel ideas. So, whereas they're more convenient, accessible, and engaging,

be it resolved, listening to audiobooks is superior to reading books. Matt. Matt, you are doing this for one very, very enthusiastic listener. You are arguing for this, and you have two minutes.

Starting now, Matt Fogg. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Books. They used to be only for the smartest. Those with the highest attention spans. Those who could afford a Kindle. But not anymore.

Thanks to audiobooks, now you can read even if you can't read. The world's literature is no longer just for the wealthy elite. Now you can enjoy pride and prejudice The world's literature is no longer just for the wealthy elite. Now you can enjoy pride and prejudice while having neither. Audiobooks open up a realm of possibilities. David Copperfield as read by David Copperfield?

Yes please. Carrie as read by Drew Carey? Why not? But no, maybe my opponent is right. Maybe print is superior to audio. Because this is my favorite show, and there's nothing I love more than sitting down and reading

a fully typed-out transcript of The debaters. Now, the only time I would ever recommend a physical book is if you need it to supplement an audiobook. For example, if you listen to Arnold Schwarzenegger's autobiography, you know, I had the Arnold impression, talking about the great Missy Hagrid. Arnold Schwarzenegger's autobiography. You know, Yes, okay, I agree. Then the book would be handy. But books are really nothing more than just portable subtitles for audiobooks.

I have spent countless hours driving around Canada doing stand-up. You know how many audiobooks I've listened to while driving? A hundred and four. You know how many physical books I've listened to while driving? A hundred and four. You know how many physical books I've read in that time? One-eighth before the accident. Listen, an audiobook can even win a Grammy.

Now that is something. You can meet Beyonce at the Grammys. Who are you going to meet at your Pulitzer Prize award ceremony? Hi, I'm Walter. I made the world better with my contribution to literature. Bleh. No, not interested, Walter. Now, call me when you seamlessly cross over

from R&B to country. Now that changed the world. I feel like I'm getting off track. Thank you, Steve. Matt Falk, ladies and gentlemen. Yeah. Matt Falk on behalf of audio books instead of reading books.

And I got to be honest, I used to work in advertising. I haven't heard many better slogans than now you can read even if you can't read. Thank you. That's good. Now, here to tell us why she fell in love with reading books because they were just her type. Let's hear from the one and only Laura Ray. Thank you. Thank you.

Anyone that knows me knows that I love to read because I hate listening. Look, I understand some people are blind. Also, I'm sorry I said look. But with reading, magic happens. Our brain turns words into pictures. We feel the texture of the pages and the scent of freshly dried ink, we hear the turning of the page and our light breathing.

Unless it's a dirty book. Then you might be breathing a little heavier. Reading about lovemaking, that's romantic. My opponent, Matt, wants to listen. Ha! That's voyeurism. Yeah. I get the power of the voice. Look, do we really get the full effect

of just how sanctimonious and evil the main character might be if Bono isn't actually reading his own autobiography. I once read, Matt, that hundreds of your favorite audiobooks are narrated by serial killer Ed Kemper. Yeah, a six-foot-seven murder machine is reading to your kids. You'll never think of the Velveteen Rabbit the same again. Or worry about drag queens at the library. Thank you.

Laura Ray, on behalf of Reading Books. It is time now for the bare knuckle round. We're debating whether audiobooks speak to you more than reading books. So see if you can get on the same page as the audience.

Show them no one can hold a Kindle to your argument and make a solid bookcase for yourself. So before I say adios, remember, if you want a joke to work, you'd best sell her. And I mean that literaturally. Let's start now.

Thank you. Let's start now. I don't, you know, I like, you know, when I have people over, I have, like, books everywhere. I have books on the shelves. I have books, like, on the table. I have books on the floor. Just, my whole house is just books, books everywhere. Why?

Because then people can see how smart I am. Yeah. All right. What do you do with the books when your company leaves? They're like coasters. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I guess audiobooks.

They just, they make me uncomfortable. Okay. Yeah. Because it's like you're giving money to capitalism and then it's like you're paying someone, and they're reading for you. And that feels very elitist to me, and a little bit classist, if I may. And, and, and, and...

Oh my word! I wish this was an audiobook so I could put it on 2.5 times speed I could be home by now. That's the bare knuckle round. I thought that was well done. Time now for the firing line. In my hand I have a list of questions on audio books versus reading books

brought to you by the recorded Hawaii Five-0 novelizations. Audiobook them, Dan-o. Wired Magazine's advice columnist says you shouldn't feel bad if you find reading boring because why? Matt. Because life is boring. Can't argue with that. Two points. Lara Ray. Because you're taking your advice from Wired Magazine.

That is a good point. You shouldn't feel bad if you find reading boring because most books are very bad. Wired Magazine's advice columnist is AI. It's an AI. The author of the book The Reading Mind says that one advantage of audiobooks over physical books is audiobooks contain prosody information. What is prosody information? Laura. Pro-Saudi information is propaganda from the Saudi government.

Pro-Saudi information should be taken with a grain of salt. That's different. Pro-Saudi. Pro-Saudi. No. No. Matt? I'm sorry, you're both incorrect. It's pronounced pro-city. It's when you hate small towns.

Prosody information is information contained in the speaker's intonations. Oh. Wow. Like that. Like that. Right? Audiobooks.com's list of the best-selling audiobooks of all time

includes How to Win Friends and Influence People, The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe, and What Book? written by an Academy Award winning actor? Alara Ray. By Al Pacino, yeah. Would 100% listen to the book by Al Pacino. Oh yeah. Matt. Would 100% listen to the book by Al Pacino. Who are you? Matt.

Brie Larson's audiobook entitled, Why Read When You Can Larson to Me. Solid. That is solid. Three points. I marvel at how that one came about. The actual answer is Matthew McConaughey's Greenlights. Matthew

McConaughey's Greenlights. Keeps you up listening all night, all night, all night. That's the firing line, everybody. Here we go. We are in the homestretch, debaters. And it is just about time for our very jubilant Jubilee Place Theatre audience to pick a winner.

But first, when it comes down to her vote in favor of reading books, the ayes have it. Let's hear again from Laura Ray. Thank you. Thank you. As a well-read person, I care about the environment and the future. So I'm not worried about book printing, I'm worried about book burning. And paper goes up at 451 degrees Fahrenheit. But audio devices, CDs, hard drives, they require much higher temperatures.

And the parts are as toxic as Manitoba groundwater. It's way cleaner to burn books. We live in scary times, but did some people love Hitler because they read Mein Kampf? No. It was all that audio. Yeah. Say yes to books and no to radio.

Yes. No. Yes. Wait. No. Except CBC Radio. Thank you. All right. All four reading books. Now, listen up, because here to give you an awesome earful on audiobooks, let's hear again from Matt Folt. Thank you.

Thank you. When you read a book, the narrator is your inner voice. No, thank you. My inner voice is too busy criticizing my eating habits to read Gatsby. So you're going to eat that? You think that's a good idea? Really? You want that jerk to be with you for six hours as you slog through Tale of Two Cities? It was the best of times. It was the best of times. It was the worst of times.

Worst of times was last week when you ate that whole cake by yourself at 6 a.m. It was the age of wisdom. It was the age of foolishness. Foolishness, yeah, like when you fell for an email scam as a 35 year old adult and lost three grand stop it stop it it was the epoch of belief you don't even know what epoch means stop it it was the epoch of incredul incred incredul- incredul- learn-ities. You didn't even pronounce that right! No! No thank you! I say, why read a book when Dame Judi Dench could read one to me? Thank you. Matt Fultz! Good point! Good points on either side.

Nice job, Matt. It is time for our audience to vote. By applause, how many of you really read into Lara's font of knowledge around reading books? Lara Ray, who has a book in her hands right now that she's pointing to. Nice support for Lara. And how many of you took a page out of Matt's book in favor of audiobooks? Matt Falk. It's a big one. It's a big one. It's very close. It's inconclusive. It is a tie. Matt Falk and Lara Ray. Keep reading and keep listening. Big hand for Matt Falk and Lara Ray, everybody.

You're listening to CBC Radio's The Debaters. Want access to bonus content and information on upcoming tour dates? Then be sure to follow us on Instagram at at CBC Debaters. Hi there, Steve Patterson here. You know, I travel a lot for work on my own, so when I can do a trip where I get to bring my wife Nancy and our daughters along, I jump at it. On a recent trip to Ottawa, we booked an Airbnb.

It was a nice home in a nice neighborhood, and it even had room for our dog Ferris, which was also nice. And that made me think, hey, maybe our home in Toronto would be a nice place to stay for some nice people too, since it sits empty while we're away. And honestly, it would be great if our house started bringing in some extra cash to put towards the next trip. Because frankly, Ferris keeps screwing up in his job interviews. Your home might be worth more than you think.

Find out how much at airbnb.ca slash host. Hey there, I'm David Common. If you're like me, there are things you love about living in the GTA and things that drive you absolutely crazy. Every day on This Is Toronto, we connect you to what matters most about life in the GTA, the news you got to know, and the conversations your friends will be talking about. Whether you listen on a run through your neighborhood or while sitting in the parking lot that is the 401, check out This Is Toronto wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, Winnipeg, are you ready to meet your next pair of debaters? This is going to be a good one.

This comic believes that when it comes to housekeeping as a chore, you should let the punishment fit the grime. It's Deanne Smith! Deanne Smith! Deanne, bounding across the stage, taking their place at the podium to my right. And this comic thinks that crocheting is a pretty loopy pastime. It's Toronto's Courtney Gilmore!

Come on up, Courtney! There's Courtney! Welcome back! Hi, Courtney! Hi, Steve! Your topic, debaters, is one that will keep you on your toes. Ballet! Is it a great night out? Of course, we are in the city that houses the Royal Ballet.

I don't know if you knew that. That's a real fact. I'm not a ballet aficionado myself, but I have, for some reason, done cameo appearances as a toy soldier in two Toronto productions of The Nutcracker. Yes. So I do consider myself a dancer.

Did you know that action stars Patrick Swayze, Jean-Claude Van Damme, and Arnold Schwarzenegger all took ballet classes to help them with flexibility and stretching for their action roles? I think they missed a great opportunity, though, to star in a movie together called The Extendables. for their action roles? I think they missed a great opportunity though to star in a movie together called The Extendables. I guess you could say that casting those guys

would be totally on point. It's time to leap into this debate. So, whereas it's a classic art form that incorporates captivating choreography, music, and costume, be it resolved, nothing beats a night at the ballet. Deanne, you are arguing for this, please. You have two minutes.

Starting now, Deanne Smith. Much like the ability to cue properly and score legal weed, ballet is essential to a functioning society. Beautiful in its own right, ballet is a rich source of inspiration for other art forms. Degas' paintings, Tchaikovsky's ballet scores, teen romance, save the last dance, and the direct-to-video sequel, Save the Last Dance, and the direct-to-video sequel Save the Last Dance 2. Ballet has the power to transform us to fantastical realms, where swans fall in love with princes, mice battle toy soldiers, and white girls from small Midwestern towns move to Chicago

when their mother dies in a car accident, trying to get to their latest dance audition, where they then fall in love with a black teenager at their new high school who introduces them to hip hop rhythms and ultimately helps them get into Juilliard. Ballet is relatable. The world of ballet is full of inspiration. Ballet is a rare place where we can witness amazing feats of strength, endurance, and stamina set against a surreal background.

I mean, outside of watching Americans during an election cycle. Winnipeg, more than anyone, knows that nothing beats a night at the ballet. You're known for it. You're known for being flat, being cold, and having the ballet. Coincidentally, flat and cold is how I'd describe the last ballet dancer I dated, but I digress. A night at the ballet? Incomparable. Thank you. Dee Ann Smith! Ladies and gentlemen.

Thank you, Dee Ann. Now, determined not to dance around why she thinks this art form should be laid to rest forever, let's hear from Courtney Gilmore. Courtney Gilmore. Listen, Winnipeg, I'm not here to tell you that the ballet is a bad place to be. It's great for napping. I've seen The Nutcracker ten times,

and I still don't know what it's about. You probably think that you do, but no. Try explaining it out loud. Once you get to the evil Mouse King, you start to wonder if you're having a stroke. If you want a good story about a European rodent, look no further than my personal hero, Ratatouille. Yes.

If you look up the ballet on the internet, you will find a bunch of articles explaining tips on how to go to the ballet. And as we all know, the perfect night out should always come with a set of rigid instructions. One of the tips that I saw was, enjoy reading the program. That's right. Part of the ballet's appeal is reading about the ballet while you're at the ballet. Nobody's feet should be able to do all that.

It's weird and unnatural. Ballet dancers can only dance professionally until ages 35 to 40, and you know where they end up then? In line at the ER to fix their feet. While the rest of us have a longer wait time for our own issues, like chest pains and head injuries, and my eyeballs feel loose again,

don't judge why I go to the ER. Listen, by going to the ballet, you're supporting the collapse of the Canadian health care system. Thank you. Harvey Gilmore is anti-ballet and came out swinging. We got ourselves a debate, and it's time now to go into the bare-knuckle round. We're debating whether nothing beats a night at the ballet.

So, since you're here in home of the Winnipeg Jete's, hopefully it won't be too, too difficult to get the ballet of the land, you know? It's time to tell them they're talking bullshoy. This pas de deux starts maintenant. First of all, there's no nachos. You know what, I don't do this. Full point, full point.

Yeah, yeah, no, that's one point. Corby, there's no nachos here. You can't just snack wherever you want to snack. Listen, I just, if I wanted to stop eating, I'd be on stage at the ballet, not in the audience, okay? Fair enough, fair enough. That is a part of the ballet that I cannot defend. Deanne, you think watching the ballet is inspiring?

Well, guess what? For some of us, it's actually traumatizing. It reminds us of our childhood dance lessons where we thought we'd be famous dancers someday, but then we got told stuff like, you're too short, you're not graceful enough, stop hanging your prosthetic hands from the bar and scaring the other children.

Courtney. Listen, I'm queer. I'm never gonna discount your experience of trauma, okay? But I will say... Finger quotes were really offensive there. Yes. Yes. For those listening at home, Deanne did air quotes there.

But I will say, hanging your prosthetics from the bar, you sound like a creepy child, Courtney. Here's a fact. Here's something I learned while researching this debate. During World War II, ballet was used to train soldiers in the Soviet Union. And then after the war, many soldiers went on to become professional dancers.

Imagine how peaceful the world could be if we replaced military training with ballet. Courtney, are you telling me you'd rather see needless war? Courtney! You know what I gotta say to that? Let's dance. All right. All right. That is the Bare Knuckle Round, everybody. It's a good one.

It is time now for the firing line. In my hand, I have a list of questions on ballet brought to you by the preferred throat lozenge of all ballet dancers, Baryshnikov drops. What happened at the Royal Winnipeg Ballet's annual production of The Nutcracker that resulted in them being out $10,000? Deanne.

Courtney really went overboard with the snacks, and it was messy. Incorrect. Courtney Gilmore. Nobody showed up. No, Courtney. It was the exact opposite. Ticket scammers purchased tickets with stolen credit cards

and resold them on third-party websites. I hope those hackers had their nuts cracked. In order to determine if you might be underdressed for a night at the ballet, what question does ballerina-gallery.com suggest that you ask yourself? Courtney. What am I doing with my life?

That's good. I got to give that an official point. Yeah. Deanne Smith. I think you should ask yourself, am I underdressed for the ballet? And then you should answer, nope. Just a little back and forth.

The actual answer is, would I wear this to a job interview? And if you answer no, you might be underdressed. Just a little something for you guys. Natalie Portman won the Academy Award for Best Actress for her role as a troubled ballerina in the psychological horror film. What was the title? Deanne. Okay, troubled dancer, horror film what was the title dan okay troubled dancer horror film dirty dancing that's a good guess it was 1963 it was super sexist then that's a good guess incorrect I like that. I like that. Yeah. That's good.

I'm giving you two, two points. It's incorrect, but I liked your answer better. It was Black Swan. You also would have accepted Star Wars, The Ballerina Strikes Back. And that is the firing line, everybody. It's almost time for our jubilant Jubilee Place Theater audience to vote. But first, here to ask what all the ballet who's about,

let's hear again from Courtney Gilmore. Winnipeg, I know that you're proud of your royal ballet. Right? But... But all I'm saying is, if it's that important to you, then why, when I looked up fun things to do in Winnipeg, was it nowhere to be found? Topping the list was a corn maze. And that's because nobody's top pick for an outing because you're all here. Yes! Yes!

You're here supporting the ultimate classic art form, comedians who will never own property pleading with you to like them. Nothing beats a night of comedy. Thank you. Courtney Gilmore. Yeah, nice job. Nice job, Courtney.

Now, here to raise the bar by boosting ballet, let's hear again from Deanne Smith. Okay, not to be dramatic, but I believe ballet is essential to birthing the revolution we need. Ballets last for up to four hours. As the modern world fractures our collective attention spans, focusing for that long is a revolutionary act, a resistance to the hyper speed of the capitalistic death machine.

Ballet shows us that there is strength in collective action, beauty in discipline, and that it's cute to put on a little tutu and take a leap into the unknown. Plus, and maybe most importantly, dancers are hot. And their little tights? I'm shocked I've managed to make it this far without already mentioning that. Revolution! Thank you. Deanne Smith arguing on behalf of the ballet. Thank you, Deanne.

All right, audience, it is up to you to decide. By applause, who agreed with Courtney that boring ballet should really be called blah, blah, blah-lay? Courtney Gilmore! Courtney doing a full spin. who agreed with Courtney that boring ballet should really be called blah blah blah ballet, Courtney Gilmore. Courtney doing a full spin, enjoying the adulation of the audience

with a full QOX. And who felt that Deanne's argument in support of ballet took off in leaps and bounds, Deanne Smith. Pretty close. Pretty close. It's pretty close. Good support on either side, but we've got to give this one to Courtney Gilmore

down with the barrel away. Big hand for Courtney Gilmore and Deanne Smith, everybody. Well, that's all for this week. I'm Steve Patterson saying I'm not a strong swimmer, but I still enjoyed diving into Swan Lake. I'll argue with you again soon, Canada.

Good night! The Debaters is created by Richard Seid. This week's episode was produced by Nicole Callender, Chloe Edbrook, Dean Jenkinson, and Graham Clark, with continuity by with special thanks to executive producer of CBC Radio Comedy is Lee Pitts. And thanks to everyone at the Jubilee Place Theatre and the Winnipeg Comedy Festival.