The Debaters - 1910: Never Hold a Grudge & Kitchen Party vs. Shed Party

Episode Date: November 21, 2024

It’s the ultimate grudge match when Elvira Kurt and Arthur Simeon decide if you should never hold a grudge. Then, East Coast comedians Ryan Dillon and Nikki Payne refuse to play second fiddle when they debate if kitchen parties are superior to shed parties.

Hi there, listeners. Steve Patterson here. You know, I get asked to emcee weddings a lot, and I'm happy to do it for close friends and family, especially when the wedding is somewhere fun, like, say, Reykjavik, Iceland. So my family and I booked an Airbnb in Reykjavik for a week, and it was awesome. There was plenty of room for all of us,

and we met lots of locals in the neighborhood. And that made me think about how much our home would be appreciated by fellow travelers as an Airbnb too since usually it just sits empty while we're away. It's in a great Toronto neighborhood full of restaurants, shops, and friendly people. It has room for a group of four to all have their own rooms and honestly we'd appreciate the house earning a bit of income to help with our next trip. Intrigued? Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at airbnb.ca slash host. And speaking of hosting,

that couple I emceed the wedding for? Still married. That's how good I am. Though I guess I can't take all the credit for that. Anyway, let's get to this week's show. This is a CBC Podcast. This podcast is an extended version of The Debaters, which may contain more mature themes. To stream the radio-friendly version of this episode, download the CBC Listen app or go to cbc.ca slash The Debaters.

And thanks for listening to The CBC. Hey Canada, we're here with some heartfelt comedy from the Holy Heart Theatre in St. John's, Newfoundland and Labrador. It's The Debaters! The Debaters, where comedians fight with facts and funny, and this audience picks the winner. Now here's a man who hosts with his whole heart, Steve Patterson! Hey! Thanks, Graham! Hello, Newfoundland!

Hello, Canada! Welcome back to Canada's youngest province. Newfoundland and Labrador. Celebrating a special anniversary in the year 2024. It's 75 years since you joined Confederation. 75 years. Yeah. Before that, you were very much your own country. I even have an idea for what your anthem probably could have been. Something like Newfoundland home of multicolored doors we'll fish for cod till there ain't no cod no more we will screech you in it is not a sin to stay more than one day.

If you don't know why, we'll explain to you why. Because you clearly come from away. All right. That's just an idea. You can just come around with it. Time now to meet two debaters that we think you'll want to take a gander at. This comic's recipe for chowder left people clamoring for more. It's Toronto's Elvira Kurt!

Elvira Kurt! Making her way across the stage confidently. Elvira Kurt. And this comic lost his job at the air conditioner factory because he spent too much time venting. It's Toronto's Arthur Simeon. Arthur Simeon, making his way to the stage today, to my right. This topic, debaters, is one that you may enjoy in spite of yourself.

Grudges? Should we all hold them? I understand why people do hold grudges, but I love it when people don't hold grudges. Especially when those people is my wife, Nancy. Yes, I screwed up on our wedding night by inviting the entire wedding party back to our suite. Or that time when I brought comedians home and kept our daughters up late, but she never held a grudge.

So to show her how much I appreciate it, I want her to hear how awesome she is from as many people as possible. And that's why everyone here tonight is invited to our anniversary dinner next year. Yeah, you can all come. Time now for a debate that makes no apologies. So, whereas it increases pessimism, stunts your personal growth, and keeps you stuck in the past, be it resolved you should never hold a grudge. Elvira, you are arguing for this, please.

You have two minutes starting now. Elvira Kurt. If anyone can understand the importance of not holding on to negative garbage, it's people who live on a rock in the ocean. Letting crap go is easy if you're not attached to anything to begin with. I know you're thinking, did this tiny lesbian really come from away just to tell us to let it go?

You're damn right I did. I thought maybe by being with the nicest people in Canada, some of it might rub off on me. You see, I know a little bit about holding grudges. I come from a long line of grudge holders. My people are Hungarians, a dour, joyless folk, whose greatest pleasure comes from stockpiling petty grievances we take to our graves. Just ask my mother. Is this how you gonna live? One woman after another for the rest of your life? God, I hope so. My other people, of course, are the gays.

A fabulous folk whose ability to hold grudges puts Hungarians to shame. Don't believe me? Then I hate you and your dumb families and all your stupid friends forever! Sound childish? Totally. You know who else sounds like that? Americans. No! Sound childish? Totally.

You know who else sounds like that? Americans. The Freedom Convoy. Thanos. The Hatfields. The McCoys. Daffy Duck. The Shark from Jaws.

This is the hateful company you keep when you hold a grudge. I'm not saying beautiful people don't hold grudges. Everyone in the House of Dragons has beef and they're sexy AF. What I'm saying is they're ugly on the inside. I mean, all the work it takes to repel logic, reject reason, and deny humanity, oh, it curdles the spirit. Holding a grudge is hell on earth, but don't take my word for it. Take it from the guy who couldn't get over Adam and Eve making one teeny tiny little mistake.

Oh my God! Seriously, let it go! one teeny tiny little mistake. Oh my God! Seriously, let it go! Thank you. Alvira Kirk, ladies and gentlemen, says let those grudges go. Thank you, Alvira. And now, here to tell us why for him,

a vendetta is always better, let's hear from Arthur Simeon. Thank you, Steve. Grudge, a persistent feeling of resentment or ill will resulting from past injury or insult. That's right. Holding a grudge means someone else started it. And there's no reason they should live in peace until death comes calling. Holding a grudge builds character because of a deep sense of obligation to make someone else's life miserable and to win at their expense.

This sense of competition is motivation to wake up every single day and be better. Better than you. Yes you, You who thought I would never amount to anything. Look at me now. Grudges have encouraged creativity and entrepreneurship to ridiculous heights. Stewing in resentment has given us Wall Street, Silicon Valley, and every movie star. Every nerd pushed into a locker in school grows up to invent a fridge that can talk to the trash can and also send you text messages. Without grudges we wouldn't have any sort of economic development. Grudges are the greatest job makers in history. The Hartfields and McCoys hated each other so much

that film adaptations have kept writers, filmmakers, actors, and crews employed for centuries. Two rappers got into such a bitter feud recently that audio engineers, videographers, bugglers, sneakers, law enforcement, and gossip merchants all worked overtime to keep up. That's why we need grudges. Have you ever tasted Hungarian goulash? Delicious! And now I know it is built on rage. Okay?

Romeo and Juliet, the greatest love story of all time, is built on the foundation of a grudge. If those families don't hold grudges, then it's just two young people falling in love and two agreeable families uniting, which is extremely boring, as most of your weddings here can attest. Hold a grudge. Thank you. Arthur Simeon comes out fighting on behalf of grudges.

It is time now for the Bare Knuckle Round. We're debating whether you should never hold a grudge. So if you're looking to be scorned, big points. You've got to pass, detest, and be willing to unloathe onto your opponent. So get your bad blood boiling and forgive this, your best shot, starting now. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow, Arthur. Not just in the pocket of big tech, but also big goulash.

Shame. I love a good goulash. Look at you. You've got to feel that rage you're holding on to. You need to let it go. That's what I've been working on in therapy for the last 20 years. I'm so excited for this opportunity to resolve that in a friendly radio debate in a couple of minutes.

Wait, you... Did you say 20 years? Yeah, 20 years of holding grudges. I wouldn't say I'm an expert, but my therapist would. You're also kind of making my point for me, because if you've been going to therapy for 20 years, that's a lot of economic your therapist is driving a really nice car i mean no kidding no kidding trust me you don't want this is this attractive to you i'm 25 years old okay that's the fair enough around everybody. And a young 25 at that, Elvira.

Is she okay? A very successful 25-year-old, yeah. Yeah, you look great, Elvira. Shut up. It is time now for the firing line. In my hand, I have a list of questions on holding a grudge brought to you by the dating app for singles who are still mad at their exes, grudgematch.com. Here are your questions.

The word grudge comes from the old French word grouchier, which has what meaning? Elvira. Filthy British beaver pelt-stealing scum. Pretty specific. Two points from the audience. Beaver pelt stealing scum. Pretty specific. Two points from the audience. Arthur Simeon. It means justice.

Rightful justice. No, it's not even close. Necessary justice. No, it's serious. The adjectives you're adding in front of the word aren't helping it. It means to grumble. Crouchier.

To grumble. Cracked.com's list of celebrities who have long held grudges against each other includes William Shatner and George Takei, Tyra Banks and Naomi Campbell, and what two longtime TV co-stars? Elvira. Tom and Jerry.

See that? Cat and mouse, good answer. Two official points. Arthur Simeon. Hudson and Rex. Oh. Somebody did some research on the local industry. Yeah. No!

Three points. Three points for the rough promotional reference. No, they don't like each other. They don't. No. Yeah. Three points. Three points for the cross-promotional reference. No, they don't like each other. No. It's all for show. No! That's terrible. They're never spotted out together around town.

I agree. No, the answer was Sarah Jessica Parker and Kim Cattrall from Sex and the City. Like he said, Hudson and Rex. Ha! Psychology Today says one reason we hold grudges is because it gives us what? Arthur.

Nice, smooth skin. All right. All right. Elvira. All right. Elvira? Country music. You know what? Not bad. Not bad. That's another official hypothetical point. Psychology Today says one reason we hold grudges

is because it gives us an identity that provides a sense of solidness and purpose. And that's why not a lot of people read psychology today. And that is the firing line, everybody. All right, it is almost that magical time when our audience here at Holy Heart Theatre picks a winner. But first, here again to remind us why there's nothing tastier than a good long stew.

Let's hear again from the always spiteful but very nice skinned Arthur Simeon. Thank you, Steve. Sure, holding grudges may stunt personal growth, but it's built nations, religions, companies, and families. Maybe the sum of the whole is more important than your little quest for personal development, okay? Everyone should hold a minimum of one grudge. Don't hoard them all. We are socialist animals, not capitalist ones, okay? Spread them around, but make sure everyone has at least one. Holding a grudge has fueled every single innovation and progress we've made in society. Anyone who says otherwise has never achieved anything worthwhile in their lives. Not holding grudges means a world where we all lie down and let people and corporate entities walk all over us,

and I for one say no. I would rather you fail than let bygones be bygones. Thank you. Arthur Simeon, a little worried he is turning this sweet, sweet Newfoundland Labrador crowd to a bunch of vengeful mainlanders. Now, here to suggest that if that grudge won't budge, give it a nudge, let's hear from the non-grudge holding, Elvira Kurt.

Elvira Kurt. A grudge is a joyless party you throw for your worst self. In my family, we Kurtz don't just hold grudges. We forge them like precious metal, then hone them obsessively in a death grip so fierce, even golems like Lighten Up do. This show, The Debaters, is so much fun for you. Do you know how many of these debates I should have won but didn't? Tell them, Steve!

Tell them! Belts versus suspenders! M&Ms! Baking! Leftovers! Messy people! While you're being entertained, I'm just reminded of every time I've been wronged!

Is this what you want? of every time I've been wronged. Is this what you want? Do you want to be a Kurt? Or do you want to be happy? Because clearly, when you hold a grudge, you can't be both. Choose wisely, Nathan Land. choose wisely Mr. Lent choose wisely

I know where you live okay that's Elvira Curt everybody Elvira Curt showing us a lot of sides there thank you Elvira audience

it is up to you to decide by applause who agreed with Elvira's Audience, it is up to you to decide. By applause, who agreed with Elvira's belief that you want peace with me always wins over you want to peace me, Elvira Kurt. Yay. All right. Nice support for Elvira.

Okay. And who preferred Arthur's pro-grudge grumblings, Arthur Simeon? All right, the audience has spoken. The winner is Arthur Simeon. Go ahead and call those grudges, Newfoundland. Big hand for Arthur Simeon and Elvira Kirk, ladies and gentlemen.

You're listening to CBC Radio's The Debaters. Want to be a part of the debating action? For upcoming tour dates, visit cbc.ca slash the debaters. Hi there, listeners. Steve Patterson here. You know, I get asked to emcee weddings a lot, and I'm happy to docee weddings a lot, and I'm happy to do it for close friends and family, especially when the wedding is somewhere fun,

like, say, Reykjavik, Iceland. So my family and I booked an Airbnb in Reykjavik for a week, and it was awesome. There was plenty of room for all of us, and we met lots of locals in the neighborhood. And that made me think about how much our home would be appreciated by fellow travelers as an Airbnb, too, since usually it just sits empty while we're away. It's in a great Toronto neighborhood full of restaurants, shops, and friendly people. It has room for a group of four to all have their own rooms.

And honestly, we'd appreciate the house earning a bit of income to help with our next trip. Intrigued? Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at airbnb.ca slash host. And speaking of hosting, that couple I emceed the wedding for? Still married. That's how good I am. Though I guess I can't take all the credit for that. Anyway, let's get to this week's show. Hey there, I'm Kathleen Goltar and I have a confession to make. I am a true crime fanatic. I devour books and films and, most of all, true crime podcasts. But sometimes, I just want to know more.

I want to go deeper. And that's where my podcast, Crime Story, comes in. Every week, I go behind the scenes with the creators of the best in true crime. I chat with the host of Scamanda, Teacher's Pet, Bone Valley. The list goes on. For the insider scoop, find Crime Story in your podcast app. Are you ready for your next pair of debaters? Listen to that, Canada. That's the St. John's audience.

If you want this comic to reveal what fish they had for lunch, you'll have to stay tuned. It's Newfoundland's own Ryan Dillon. Get him out here. Get him out here. Ryan Dillon. Newfoundland's own. Making his way across the stage to the podium to my left. And this comic memorized the name of every road in her neighborhood just to earn some street cred.

It's Sackville, Nova Scotia's Nikki Payne. Nikki Payne. And the crowd riled up. And then a royal curtsy for me. Your topic, debaters, is one that I think everyone here can celebrate. Kitchen parties. Are they superior to shed parties? Where else could we debate this? Nowhere. I'm proud to say that I've attended both kitchen and shed parties in Atlantic Canada,

and I think they're both great. What some of you in other parts of Canada may never have heard of either of them, so let me explain. A kitchen party is a party that happens in a kitchen. A shed party is a kitchen party that happens in a shed. Got it? All right. You won't believe me, but it's actually hard to explain these kinds of parties in places like Toronto or Vancouver, because A, those people don't really know how to party,

B, a lot of homes barely have kitchens, and C, if they have sheds, they're being rented out to a family of six. But enough about them. It is time for a debate that will get this party started. So, whereas they're held in the heart of the house, offer family-friendly entertainment, and can even feature live music, be it resolved, kitchen parties are superior to shed parties. Ryan, you're arguing for this. You have two minutes. Starting now, Ryan Dillon. Steve, the kitchen party is the perfect place for a party. You're surrounded by friends, family,

30 cousins you only see at Christmas so their name is on the tip of your tongue. Shed parties, you're surrounded by rope, duct tape, sharp saws. I'm here to party, not plan a murder. When you get to a kitchen party, you take off your coat when you arrive. That's how you know you're gonna have a good time.

You take off your coat. You put on your coat to go to the shed. No one's ever had a good time after putting on their coat. Pouring outside, put on your coat. Shovel in the driveway, put on your coat. Nice Halloween costume, kid, but guess what? Your mom thinks it's too cold outside. Put on your coat.

What are you supposed to be? Well, I was Spider-Man. Now I'm frigging Peter Parker. And let me tell you something the kitchen party is the home to the best drink you will ever find slush that beautiful frozen block of liquor and canned juice you hack away with nan's good knife you know the knife she likes to scare poppy with the only slush you'll find at the shed party is at that spot behind it where the boys go to pee.

The kitchen is the room full of all the food, booze, and music. Why would I leave? You gotta bring things to the shed. You gotta bring your booze, bring your food, you gotta bring your phone to play music, because Daryl forgot to charge the speaker last night. And let me tell you something. When you run out of booze, when you're on your last cigarette, where do you have to go get more? You send someone to the kitchen.

Well, well, well, look who's come crawling back! Thank you. Yeah! Ryan Dillon! Listen to that hometown crowd for their homecoming. Look who's come crawling back. Thank you. Yeah. Ryan Dillon. Listen to that hometown crowd for their hometown man, Ryan Dillon. All right. Now, here to shed some light on the sheer awesomeness of shed parties, it's Nikki Payne! Whoo! Whoo! Whoo! Whoo!

Whoo! Whoo! Whoo! Whoo! Whoo! Whoo! Whoo! Whoo!

Whoo! Whoo! Whoo! Whoo! Whoo! Whoo! Whoo! Whoo!

Whoo! Whoo! Whoo! Whoo! Whoo! Whoo! Whoo! All right, fine. Kitchen parties are the main event. Thank you. Shut up! Take you up to the shed and make a man out of you! Thank you. My two minutes have not started yet. No, they haven't.

I'm actually a bit scared for both of us, Brian. Sure, the kitchen party's the main event, but the Shag Party is the seedy after-hours club only the cool people know about. The Shag Party was the closest thing to a country club club only the cool people know about. The Shag Party was the closest thing to a country club my dad and uncles were ever gonna be allowed to join. Their dress code was t-shirts and hats they got out of a box of Black Horse.

Or as I thought all my uncles were saying in Rocky Harbor, Black Earth. My mom worked on weekends, so my dad took care of me on the weekends. That meant I went with him to seg parties all over our trailer park. So for those upper Canadians listening in, think pub crawl of sadness. Shag upon shag

filled with transplanted Newfoundlanders raising their families on the mainland On the radio was Newfie 30 and it was so popular they gave it another 30 minutes so they called it Newfie 30 Plus 30. They listened to the lamenting songs of their people. Sonny don't go away, I am here. Run Son Sonny, run! Your mother's a narcissist! Yes!

My first performances were in a Shed Party. Yeah, I was never intimidated to tell jokes in front of a bunch of inebriated deplorables. I've been doing it since I was four years old! jokes in front of a bunch of inebriated deplorables. I've been doing it since I was four years old! Sure, a said party isn't as tidy a scene for the tourism commercials like a sweet old-fashioned kitchen party, right? But for the tourist that wants to experience

the gritty side of Atlantic Canada, you know, the ones that wanna find out what we do to the cod after we've kissed it? The stand party's the place to be! Let it be! Let it be! Nikki Payne, everybody! Whoo!

Nikki Payne bringing the heat on behalf of the shed parties. It is time now for the Bare Knuckle Round. We're debating whether kitchen parties beat shed parties, so really shin-dig deep into this topic by refusing to play second fiddle to your opponent as you alcohol them onto the carpet. When things get ugly, stick it to your opponent and shed some light on this topic. Throw everything but the kitchen sink at them to let them know the jig is up, starting now. Whoo! Yeah.

Listen, Nikki, the Shed isn't a place to party. It's where you store things like tools, parts, your dog who bites people, your cousin who bites people. And those are just the Sheds in Mount Pearl, right? Okay, fair enough, but shag parties have saved many a marriage, okay? Dad did stuff in a shag that would've gotten him murdered by mom in the kitchen.

Yeah, and in that kitchen, you'll find the best food, by the way. There's only two things on the menu in the shed, Bud Light and a pack of darts. Okay, but you know what? Kitchen parties are filled with, oh, all these talented people that can play musical instruments. Shed parties are for those of us who can only play the spoons.

Yeah, yeah, but you guys use those spoons to play the same song over and over and over again. Anyone got a light? Okay, you know what? The simple fact is, we're sitting here in our nice church clothes, being clean-cut CBC listeners, but the fact is, is that most of us owe our existence

to the choices our parents made after a shed party. All right, that's the Fair Enough Around, everybody. It is time now for the firing line. In my hand, I have a list of questions on a shed party versus a kitchen party brought to you by a garden party. A garden party, the party you walk through on your way from the kitchen to the shed. Newfoundland buzz says classic Newfoundland folk songs

played at a kitchen party may include Eyes the Bye, Muscles in the Corner, and The Night What Happened? Nikki Payne. Poppy slept in a shed because of what he said to Nan. Eyes to the bye, muscles in the corner, and the night, what happened? Nikki Payne. Poppy's slipping a shag because of what he said to Nan. I would like to hear that one. That's one and a half points.

Ryan Dillon. I actually do know this one. It's the night that Patty Murphy died doing what he did best. Dying. He dies every song, man. I hope that guy's okay. Ah, that is the right answer. The night Pat Murphy died. Yes.

In March 2023, a shed party was held on Parliament Hill. What did Justin Trudeau do there? Ryan. Face painting. Oh, that is good. He sang a duet with Alan Doyle of Great Big Sea. Yeah. It has not helped in the polls.

In 2017, why did a makeshift kitchen party involving an accordion and a guitar break out at Toronto's Pearson Airport? Nikki. The accordion was filled with cocaine. A flight to Newfoundland was delayed by 30 minutes. True story. I don't even know where they pulled the instruments from. According to theceshop.com,

much like a man cave, a she shed offers women the opportunity to do what? Ryan? To sit in the she shed to share what she thinks what the she shed offers women the opportunity to do what? Ryan? It's to sit in the she shed to share what she thinks what the she shed should be for. Pretty good. Nikki? She, she shows, oh, damn it!

Oh! That's the greatest. I can do this! My therapist is here! She sells seashells for the seasick! Yeah! That's the firing line, everybody! Yeah! The actual answer was escape from life. That's the firing line, everybody. Yeah. The actual answer was escape from life. I just thought that was a better point to stop on.

Sure. Well, it's almost that magical time again here in the Holy Heart Theatre when the audience votes for their favourite. But first, here to tell us why the Shed Party always gets her vote, let's hear again from Nikki Payne. Sure, I'm the cousin of it, people. They had it coming.

My eyes were opened to a hidden world of wonder that the other children were unaware of from the safety of the kitchen. I was the tiny leader of a merry band of functional alcoholics. We stole from the kitchen and gave to the... us. We were the misfits, the fancy kitchen party rejects. Yeah, some of my trauma could be traced directly and indirectly back to the Shed Party,

but I'm the comedian I am today because of them. I walked into that shed a four-year-old girl. I walked out a 48-year-old uncle. Nikki Payne, everybody. Yeah! Nikki Payne. My Uncle Nikki Payne. Now, here with his kitchen counterargument in favor of kitchen parties, let's hear again from Ryan McCaffrey. Uncle Nicky Payne. Now, here with his kitchen counter argument in favor of kitchen parties,

let's hear again from Ryan Dillon. The kitchen party brings the whole family together so they can laugh, cheer, celebrate. The shed party brings together a bunch of uncles so they can talk about how they tried an IPA once and it wasn't for them. The kitchen party brings together a bunch of uncles so they can talk about how they tried an IPA once and it wasn't for them. The kitchen party is the heart and soul of Newfoundland.

So when the show is over tonight, that's where you'll find me, in the kitchen, having the time of my life. Anybody need anything while I'm in there? Steve, a drink? Nikki, one of the million reasons to come inside. Thank you, Newfoundland. I love you. Yeah!

Brian Dillon. A classy argument at the end. He sees the positives in both, but he prefers the kitchen party. It is up to the audience to vote. By applause, who agreed with Nikki's shameless and sharply shared shed shout-out? Nikki Payne.

Nikki Payne for the sheds. All right, a lot of love for Nikki! And who agreed with Ryan's Kitchen Party persuasive pronouncements? Ryan Dillon! That's it! I can't, I love you both! It's a tie! We got a tie! The Kitchen Party and the Shed Party! Big hands for Nikki Payne and Ryan Dillon, everybody.

Well, that's all for this week. I'm Steve Patterson saying if you haven't been to Newfoundland yet, you better stop by soon to get screeched in. I'll argue with you again soon. Canada, good night! The Debaters is created by Richard Seid. This week's episode was produced by Nicole Callender,

Chloe Edbrook, Dean Jenkinson, and Graham Clark. With continuity by Graham Clark, Diana Francis, and Gary Jones. Technical production by James Perella and Mark Strong. Story editing by Gary Jones. With special thanks to Katie Ellen Humphries, Emily Ferrier, and David Pride. Executive producer of CBC Radio Comedy is Lee Pitts. And thanks to everyone at the Holy Heart Theatre in St. John's.