The Debaters - 1914: Canada's National Anthem & Everything Happens for a Reason

Episode Date: January 2, 2025

Jon Steinberg and Ali Hassan compete for their Ottawa audience’s true patriot love when they decide if Canada has the best national anthem. Then, Courtney Gilmour and Nour Hadidi are masters of their own destiny when they debate if everything happens for a reason.

Hi there, listeners. Steve Patterson here. If you're a frequent traveler like I am, you know that traveling's great. But as a wise young girl with fancy red shoes once said, there's no place like home. That's why when I travel, by myself or with my family, I often book Airbnbs for that homey touch. Like the one I stayed at in Stratford, Ontario recently, where I performed a show and took in some Shakespeare.

Though to be clear, I didn't perform Shakespeare. There's no perchance of that happening. I was not meant to be, or not to be. Anyway, my point is, I like the feeling of home when I'm on the road, and I feel like I'm not alone in this, especially when I'm traveling with my family, which got me thinking, when we're on the road, our house could be a home away from home for fellow travelers, too, if we host it on Airbnb. It just makes sense. Actually, it makes dollars. And those dollars could help pay for our next family trip. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at Airbnb.ca slash host.

Something to prepend on and on. This is a CBC podcast. This podcast is an extended version of The Debaters, which may contain more mature themes. To stream the radio-friendly version of this episode, download the CBC Listen app or go to cbc.ca slash The Debaters. And thanks for listening to The CBC. Hey Canada, ready to kick it? From Ottawa, the host city of the 2024 Pan American Muay Thai Championship, it's The Debaters! The Debaters, where comedians fight with facts and fun in this audience, picks the winner. Now here's a man who packs quite a punch. Steve

Patterson. Hey! Thanks, Graham Clark. Hello, Canada. And welcome back to The Debaters. Always great to be back here in Ottawa, the birthplace of so many Canadian celebrities.

It's true. Margaret Atwood, Rich Little, Dan Aykroyd, Bruce Coburn, Norm Macdonald, Alanis Morissette, and of course all the Greens, Tom, Nancy and Lorne. Way to go Ottawa! True! These are all true things! I'm from London, Ontario. And so are those people, I guess. When you Google famous people from London, Ontario,

it's Ryan Gosling, Rachel McAdams, and Steve Patterson. I am omitting a lot of names between Rachel and myself. But actually, we're closer than most think. They starred together in The Notebook while I still make notes in the same binder that CVC rented me 18 years ago. So, almost the same. Now, it's time to meet two debaters

who are celebrities in their own minds. This comic thinks that adding just parsley, sage, and rosemary to your recipe is a total waste of time. It's Ottawa's John Steinberg! Come on out here, John! There he is, taking his place to the podium to my right, enjoying the entry across the stage.

And this comics comedy is right up our alley. It's Toronto's Ali Hassan. Come on, Ali. There he is. Hello, friend. Hi, friend. Welcome back. All right, debaters.

Your topic is one that will make you stand up and cheer, we hope, national anthems. Is Canada's the greatest? Let's see. I'd like to give a shout out now, by the way, to late Liberal MP Morel Belanger for pushing a bill in the year 2016 to change the lyrics to an all of us command from all thy sons command. I'll tell you why I like that. As a father of fierce daughters, I appreciate it. But what I don't like is when our national anthem is butchered by American singers. Like in the year 2023, an American, instead of the words from far and wide,

sang, we stand our eyes. Stand our... Did he mean standardized? Like standardized healthcare? Is that what he was trying to say? Anyway, it's time for a debate we can all stand up and be proud of. So, whereas it has a distinct and memorable melody, evokes patriotism in two languages, and is receptive to change, be it resolved that Canada's is the best national anthem.

John, you arguing for this, please, my friend? You have two minutes. Starting now, John Steinberg. Things are instantly better when you put an O in front of them. Oh, Henry is a delicious, chewy chocolate bar. But Henry is just some guy. Okay.

REO Speedwagon? No, thank you. Oreo Speedwagon. Yes, please. Yes, please. And what about ranges? Yes, please. And what about ranges? You can't eat ranges. But, oh, ranges.

My point is... When I first started doing this show, the green room had more snacks. Ha ha ha! Now, I know it's not considered a Canadian quality to be super patriotic, but you've got to admit, we have the very best national anthem in the whole world. Yeah. Now, Ali is going to say that O Canada is a terrible song.

And sure, I'll give him that. It doesn't have to be a great song to be a great anthem. That's an important distinction. We don't listen to the anthem because we want to. We listen to the anthem because it is our duty. Whenever I listen, I'm reminded of the sacrifice of all the Canadians who came before me who had to listen to that same national anthem.

LAUGHTER You don't want a cool anthem like the Americans have. Jimi Hendrix rocking out to it at Woodstock? Lame. We don't need that. We have our own Canadian rock stars. Like Neil Young. Yeah.

Yeah. Who, not to be outdone, also did an electric guitar cover of the American National Anthem. My point is... Rock is supposed to be the music of rebellion. National anthems are about standing still, being respectful, not wearing a hat. Rocking out to your national anthem

is like getting drunk with your parents. You can do it once or twice, but you should feel embarrassed about it afterwards. Thank you. John Steinberg, ladies and gentlemen. His opening argument on why Canada's is the best national anthem, in case you've just tuned in and weren't sure what that was about. Now, here singing a totally different tune about Canada's national anthem, let's welcome Ali Hassan. Hello, Ottawa. I'm going to ask you to remain seated as the theatre plays our national anthem.

All right, let's cut it right there. First issue, why did you remain seated, huh? You're proud Canadians. You sat because I asked you to? No, you sat because our anthem is weak, okay? Secondly, oh Canada, who starts a song with oh? Was somebody surprised by us? Oh Canada, what are you doing here? Was somebody cheating on Canada's wife?

Oh Canada, I didn't expect you home this early. You know what's a great anthem? The French anthem. Osem citoyen Formez vos bataillons Marchons, marchons I feel like murdering somebody right now. That is amazing. Or the Argentinian anthem.

Ojeremos con gloria morir. I learned Spanish for this debate, by the way. That was a massive waste of time. Or the Pakistani anthem. Boxers, a mean shot. Sing it with me. Kishnade, aaseen, Shadba. You got it.

I know what you're thinking. You're saying, but Ali, our anthem has two official languages. Big deal. The South African national anthem has five official languages. One of them is Xhosa. Xhosa. The one with the clicking. The one with the clicking is one of the languages.

That one. You want to impress me? You write me a Canadian anthem with words in English, French, Punjabi, Tagalog, Cree, Ojibwe, and Inuktitut. Thank you. All right, Ali Hassan, pretty good points. This debate might come down to your interpretation of the word oh. Hey debaters, it's time now for the Bare Knuckle Round.

We're debating Canada's national anthem, so for better or worse, all of us command that you hit your opponents with some real singers. The audience decides which of you they true patriot love. And which of you they can't stanza. Time for one of you to portez la croix and the other to stand en garde now. En garde! Now! First, I want to point out that not only did I stand up while Ali was playing the anthem,

but I'm actually still standing. And I'll remain standing until someone brings me a chair. All right, Steve is the only one who gets a chair. John, we're trying to talk about anthems, by the way, and our anthem is Toothless, the American anthem. I mean, that country can suck an egg, obviously, but that anthem, the picture that it paints, I'm riding bareback on a horse with Kevin Costner by the end of that thing. You know what I mean? Is that not the right? I'm not sure that's that song you're talking about. Yeah, that doesn't sound right. All right. The Canadian anthem was just changed

recently. Why are we going to commit to memory an anthem that's not even finished? It's still a work in progress. I like an anthem that recognizes it has room for improvement. John, let me waste your time with one more fact about anthems. The anthem of Myanmar is basically two songs. One starts as this Burmese folk song, and then it transitions into a military march with orchestral music. It's like the Bohemian Rhapsody of anthems.

I mean, that is an anthem, man. Wow. I'd like to hear that. Do we got that one queued up? We don't have that one queued up. All right. That's the bare knuckle round. Oh, well done. It's time now for the firing line. In my hand, I have a list of questions on Canada's unofficial anthem,

the Maple Leaf Forever. A passionate song about how long thousands of Canadians will wait for Toronto to not win the Stanley Cup. According to an August 2023 public opinion poll, 41% of English-speaking Canadians support the idea of making what lyric change to O Canada? Ali? God keep our weed glorious and free.

That's a good guess. Half a point. John Steinberg? Replacing all the lyrics with better lyrics. Pretty good idea. Four points. Specifically, changing our home and native land to our home on native land. Billboard.com says one of the worst ever

American national anthem performances was Roseanne Barr at a 1990 baseball game where she screeched the lyrics, spat on the pitcher's mound, and what else? John. Something racist? Pretty good guess, John. Close. Grabbed her own crotch.

Before Newfoundland joined Confederation, it had its own national anthem, which is now its provincial anthem. What is it called? John? Anything by Great Big Sea. Probably. Yep.

Ali Hassan? I don't know, but if you ask me a half an hour later, I might. Half an hour later from now. All right. Newfoundland's own national anthem, which is now its provincial anthem, is called Ode to Newfoundland. It's right there in the title if you think about it. And that's the firing line, everybody. All right, here we go. Home stretch time. And it's almost time for our Centerpoint Theatre audience to place their votes. But first, here again to tell us why he won't stand for anyone celebrating Canada's national anthem as the best. It's Ali Hassan.

All right, Ottawa, I think we got off on the wrong foot. I'm going to ask you now, those who can, please rise for the incredible national anthem. National Anthem.. Oh, friends. Oh, it's so good. It's so good. Oh. Oh, I wish they could see that at home. That's the fastest.

That's the fastest I've ever seen a group of people sit down in Ottawa. I wish the disappointment was palpable through the radio, too. That was really something. That was great. Yes, I am the jerk up here criticizing our national anthem. However, I was also the guy advocating for an anthem that embraces our indigenous languages. And I want you to be mindful of that at the end when you clap. If you clap too much for John, listeners might say,

wow, it sounds like Ottawa doesn't really care for our First Nations. I'm not saying that's the case. I'm just saying that's what it'll sound like. Just a little something to think about, Ottawa. Beautiful, inclusive, progressive-minded Ottawa. Thank you. Ali Hassan. Oh.

You tried to trick them by standing, and then they sat, and you tried to trick them again. Now, here to sing the praises of O Canada once again, it's Canada and Ottawa's own John Steinberg. I know a lot has been said tonight about how terrible O Canada is. Some of it by me. But the French version is actually way better. There's a part that says, for your arm knows how to wield the sword. Yeah, Canada has a sword in their version. And an arm.

In the English version, we're pleading with God to keep our land strong and free. Meanwhile, French Canada is a badass, sword-wielding, one-armed assassin. We should all be using the French lyrics instead of the ridiculous word salad that we've been reciting all these years. And for God's sakes, if you do have a glowing heart, go see your doctor immediately. Thank you. John Steinberg, ladies and gentlemen,

loves old Canada, still thinks there could be some improvements, but loves it. Let's see what the audience has decided. By applause, who answered the call to Ali's anti-anthem anthem? Ali Hassan! All right.

And who was more attuned with John and scored him one and O Canada, John Steinberg. Now the audience has spoken. They believe our anthem's the best and they believe John Steinberg wins this debate. Big hand for John Steinberg and Ali Hassan, everybody. You're listening to CBC Radio's The Debaters. Want access to bonus content and information on upcoming tour dates? Then be sure to follow us on Instagram at at CBC Debaters. Hi there, listeners. Steve Patterson here. You know,

I get asked to emcee weddings a lot, and I'm happy to do it for close friends and family, especially when the wedding is somewhere fun, like, say, Reykjavik, Iceland. So my family and I booked an Airbnb in Reykjavik for a week, and it was awesome. There was plenty of room for all of us, and we met lots of locals in the neighborhood. And that made me think about how much our home would be appreciated by fellow travelers as an Airbnb, too, since usually it just sits empty while we're away. It's in a great Toronto neighborhood full of restaurants, shops, and friendly people. It has room for a group of four to all have their own rooms, and honestly, we'd appreciate the house earning a bit of income to help with our next trip. Intrigued? Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at airbnb.ca slash host. And speaking of hosting, that couple I emceed the wedding for? Still married. That's how good I am. Though I guess I can't take all the credit for

that. Anyway, let's get to this week's show. vision loss feels like by exploring how it sounds. By sharing my story, we get into all the things you don't see about hidden disabilities. Short Sighted from CBC's Personally, available now. Are you ready to meet your next pair of debaters? Listen to this! All right! This comic was scheduled for a week's work on a Christmas movie, but it wrapped early. It's Toronto's Courtney Gilmore! Courtney Gilmore, one of our favorites, taking her place at the podium to my left. And this comic entered a hedge-trimming race and went at a pretty good clip. It's Toronto's Noor Hadidi!

Noor Hadidi! Taking her place, striding across to my right. Hi Steve. Hi Noor, welcome back. Debaters, your topic has a date with destiny. Does

everything happen for a reason? This is deep. Some people believe in a higher power. I certainly do, especially when my fuse box shorts out and I suddenly have lower power. It makes me believe that a higher power is really important. Until Ontario Hydro sends me a higher power bill, leaving me feeling powerless until my wife tells me to take a power nap, so I do, right after I turn off all the power, which is a bit of a power trip.

Time now for a powerhouse debate. So, whereas choosing to believe life's events aren't random provides comfort, purpose, and strength, be it resolved, everything happens for a reason. Courtney, you're arguing for this, please. You have two minutes. Starting now, Courtney Gilmore. Thank you.

Thank you, Steve. In a world of chaos, fear, and confusion, there exists another side of the coin, one that consists of angel numbers, mystical synchronicities, and finding out that your cheating ex-boyfriend's hairline has receded another two inches. Everything happens for a reason.

For example, Nor came here tonight for a reason, to lose this debate. I know there are many circumstances today that make this platitude a tough sell. But think of it this way. You don't have to believe that everything happens for a good reason. For example, five billionaires boarded a structurally unsound vessel

so they could go underwater and visit another structurally unsound vessel. They all died because it was a dumbass idea. That's the reason. That's the reason. If everything happens for a reason, yes, we naturally wonder who's pulling the strings and what are they thinking? How could they allow bad things? But if everything is random and happens by chance, there's no one to blame.

It's like ordering your favorite pizza and instead receiving a quinoa salad. When you tell the restaurant they screwed up your order, you want to hear them say, oh, I'm so sorry, we screwed up your order. Here's a free pizza. Not, huh, that's random. I may not understand it, but I know in my heart that there's a reason the guy that I went out with three months ago

stopped responding to my texts. And I believe that as soon as he is done nursing his bipolar ferret back to health, he will tell me that reason. LAUGHTER I choose to believe that everything happens for a reason for the same reason I use a weighted blanket. It calms me down and helps me hide from monsters. Thank you.

Courtney Gilmore. Courtney Gilmore believes that everything happens for a reason. Now, here to prove that her appearance here tonight is nothing more than a happy accident, let's hear from Noor Hadidi. Thank you, Steve. And it's true. I do not believe that everything happens for a reason. I neither should you, Ottawa. Now, don't get me wrong.

It's a nice sentiment. It's comforting. Like believing there's caffeine in a Tim Horton's coffee. Sorry, did I say coffee? I meant mud water. Gah! I agree. You agree. Thank you, sir.

Listen, everything happens for a reason. It's just another random saying that boomers made up to help them cope with the reality they've left us all in. Yes. Thank you. It's like when someone says, trust your gut. I can't trust my gut. I have IBS. Yeah.

If I trust my gut, I'm going to crap and puke at the same time, and nobody wants that. I can't squat in public, you know? I have an untied shoelace. I'm like, this is it. I'm far from home. I either trip or crap, and trip it is, my friends. Trip it is.

Yeah. No one talks about IBS, by the way. It's just me and Jamie Lee Curtis. That's it. And she's paid by Activia. I'm doing it for the people. Okay. I'm sorry to say this, Courtney,

but if indeed everything happens for a reason, then I guess the reason I'm here tonight is to point out that... You know what? You didn't lose those texts because of your date's bipolar ferret, Courtney. He's probably ghosting you, because your idea of a romance is making fun of five people who died in the ocean. Searching for hidden meanings in every little mishap is exhausting. When bad things happen, don't look for the universe's secret message,

because just like us, the universe is probably looking for a washroom nearby. Thank you. Noor Hadidi, ladies and gentlemen. It's time now for the bare knuckle round. We're debating if everything happens for a reason. So let me serendipit tee you up. Cut your opponent off at the desk to knees, all the while not saying anything that makes you sound random and dumber. Let's find out if this was all really meant to be, starting now.

I know it's hard to believe that everything happens for a reason, but it's like when you're watching a TV show. You don't know where the story is going, but you have to have faith that it's all going to come together in the end. How frustrating would it be if a show was just random events with no conclusion? It'd be like watching Lost.

The boomers, they appreciated that reference. Thank you, Courtney. Listen, I grew up... Any other Arabs here tonight? No, of course not. Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. We can edit. I grew up Arab, and in the Arab culture, we believe in something called the evil eye.

Everyone's aware of this? Okay, now they show up. We believe in the evil eye, right? And that's because we're trying to assign meaning where it doesn't exist, you know? Like, we believe if someone looks at you wrong, like, that's the reason you're in jail, you know? And that's not the case. It's because you don't know how to drive. That's what it is, Mahmoud.

Nora's got just very low vibrational dark energy, so I actually didn't hear anything she just said. I'm just sounding so high vibrational over here. I just can't. Okay. Do you want the last word on this? No. All right. That was the bear knock around. I love it. Time now for the firing line in my hand. I have a list of questions on everything happening for a reason brought to you by Old Grapes. Old Grapes, to them, everything happens for a raisin.

Yeah, yeah. That hurt you, didn't it? What is the second part of the title of Professor Kate Bowler's book, "'Everything Happens for a Reason, and what? Courtney. And That's Why I Killed My Husband. Getting very dark.

I'm sorry, could you repeat the title, Steve? What is the second part of the title of Professor Kate Bowler's book, Everything Happens for a Reason, and what? Noor Hadidi. And the Chamber of Secrets. I like that. I do like that. Three points.

Everything Happens for a Reason and Other Lies I've Loved. I guarantee she's on LinkedIn. I guarantee it. Wealth management expert John M. Jennings says you can find peace with the idea of randomness by reminding yourself that what? Nora? You know, as a Muslim,

I'm almost always randomly selected at the airport, so... Thank you. I'm comfortable with the idea of randomness. It's funny, but also partially true, one point. Courtney Gilmore?

That all your enemies will die someday. What is happening on this episode? The actual answer is, there's not only bad luck, but also good luck. But Courtney is a different style of management, that's all. Aristotle not only believed that everything happens for a reason, but that every experience was designed to do what?

Courtney? To be documented on Instagram. Yeah, probably true. You have a point for that. Noor Hadidi. Drain my bank account under the iron fist of capitalism. I'm not richer than I think.

Thank you, Scotiabank. Three points for that one the actual answer every experience was designed to shape you into the ultimate and greatest version of yourself but i liked your answer better that is the firing line everybody we are coming down the back straight now where our center point theater audience will have to place their votes. But first, here again to remind us that life happens because that's the way the fortune cookie crumbles, let's hear again from Noor Hadidi.

Ottawa, not everything is part of some cosmic grand plan. Sometimes life just throws you curveballsballs and instead of figuring out why, let's focus on dodging them or at least pretending they're not hitting us in the face. Think about all the random and ridiculous things that happen, you know, like when an old man turns 98, wins the lottery and dies the next day. Come on, Ottawa. It's like rain on your wedding day. Come on, boomers, and a free ride. It's the good advice.

Come on, young man, sing. I can see you. Thought it figures. Thank you. Have a good night. Noor Hadidi wrapping it all up with a pretty ironic closing argument. Thank you, Noor. Now, here to convince us why it stands to reason that she's the voice of reason, let's hear again from Courtney Gilmore. Oh, Courtney is bringing me something. It appears to be a nice rock.

It's a crystal for good vibes, Steve. Oh, wow. I could use those, thank you. I got it at Michael's. Anyway. Now, I was born missing both hands and one leg. And some might say, Courtney, how can you, of all people, believe that everything happens for a reason? Well, I'll tell you, Wanawa.

Thanks to my disability, men do everything for me. Have never cleaned a toilet in my life. Never will. Can I do it? Yeah, but my boyfriend doesn't need to know that. Okay? He's cleaning the bathroom, I'm in the living room solving a Rubik's Cube. Life is great for me. Okay? It's hard to believe that there's a grand force

or divine being out there who has a justifiable answer to everything that goes on in the world. But Ottawa, I urge you to consider this. Maybe God's pet ferret is really sick and he's going to get back to us with a plan super soon. Thank you. Courtney Gilmore. Courtney Gilmore, ladies and gentlemen, stands to reason that she's the voice of reason. That's it. It's time to vote.

By applause, who felt that Courtney's pro-reason ramblings surpassed everyone's reasonable expectations? Courtney Gilmore. A lot of love for Courtney. Okay. And who thought there was simply no reason not to vote for Noor, Noor Hadidi. It's pretty close. Nice support for each side. But I'm going to give this one to Noor Hadidi,

ladies and gentlemen. Not everything happens for a reason. Big hand for Noor Hadidi and Courtney Gilmore. Well, that's all for this week. I'm Steve Patterson saying if everything does happen for a reason Then I don't need to finish this thought I'll argue with you again soon Canada Good night The Debaters Is created by Richard Side This week's episode was produced by Nicole Callender, Chloe Edbrook, Dean Jenkinson

And Graham Clark With continuity by Graham Clark, Diana Francis, and Gary Jones. Technical production by James Perella and Pascal Jobin. Story editing by Gary Jones. With special thanks to Katie Ellen Humphries, Emily Ferrier, and David Pride. Executive producer of CBC Radio Comedy is Lee Pitts. And thanks to everyone at the Centerpoint Theatre in Ottawa.