The Debaters - Are trees overrated? Do you learn nothing from praise?

Episode Date: March 26, 2026

This week, we’re in London, Ontario, aka “The Forest City” and we’re asking if trees are overrated. Dave Hemstad says yes, it’s time to fir-get our forest friends, but Jon Steinberg believes he’s barking up the wrong tree. Then, we talk about the pros and cons of praise. Kate Davis disapproves of excess approval but Faris Hytiaa is ready to rave about recognition.Featuring: Dave Hemstad, Jon Steinberg, Kate Davis, and Faris Hytiaa.

This ascent isn't for everyone. You need grit to climb this high this often. You've got to be an underdog that always overdelivers. You've got to be 6,500 hospital staff, 1,000 doctors all doing so much with so little. You've got to be Scarborough. Defined by our uphill battle and always striving towards new heights. And you can help us keep climbing. Donate at lovescarbro.cairro.ca.

This is a CBC podcast. Hey Canada, better matriculate than never from the home of Western University in London, Ontario, who we find quite degreeable. It's great to be back where I grew up in London, Ontario. Home of the Canadian Medical Hall of Fame, which is pretty impressive. It celebrates many medical firsts that were achieved here,

including the invention of insulin in 1920. Thanks, London. The improvement of cancer radiation treatment in the 1950s. Thank you, London. And Canada's first child-proof medication packaging in the 1970s, which I fondly remember opening for my dad when I was six and he was hung over. Time now to meet two debaters who are just what the doctor ordered. This comic is very critical of root vegetables,

and he especially likes roasting potatoes. It's Toronto. It was Dave Hampstead. Dave Amstead. One of our best. And if you like this comics jokes, well, that's just the tip of the Steinberg. It's John Steinberg.

Hello, John. Welcome. Hi, you, Steve. Hey, my friend. All right, debaters, your topic is one that we hope will leaf you laughing. Trees. Trees.

Are they? overrated. It is about time. Someone took this one on. We're here in London, Ontario, which is known as the Forest City. Forest City, because there are so many trees.

Sometimes you can't even see the forest city for the trees. Most people consider trees a necessary part of nature, except, ironically, people who cut down trees. Because they were want to build a new spa on an island. Anyway, it's time for a debate that we hope won't leave you stumped. So, whereas they're placed on too high of a pedestal, be it resolved, trees are overrated. Dave, you're arguing for this.

You have two minutes. Starting now, Dave Hempstead. Thank you, Steve. Trees aren't just overrated. They're stupid. Outside of holding a fort and sucking all the water out of your local well, what do they do? Kidnap cats.

Up here, kitty kitty, you live with me now. You can make a bed out of that child's kite eye store. Trees are jerks. Kids don't fall out of trees. They get pushed. It was the gust of wind. As a golfer, I can assure you, trees are not our friends. They are dream killers, Steve, ruining the potential of glorious, heroic golf shots. Stupid water sucking cats stealing kite, keep it kid pushing dream killer.

Christmas is great, because it's the only time of year we're allowed to murder them. The rest of the year, you have to file a permit from the city before you can even think about touching a tree, because trees have lawyers now. And they're better than our lawyers. You ever notice how much paperwork lawyers use? Right? The trees give it to them for free

and then they charge us for it. Yeah, it's a whole pro-meopulpa going on. Trees are the root of all evil. Especially family trees. I'm going to go out on a limb here, Steve. but a lot of us have a creepy uncle up in our branches. Root of all evil, out on a limb, these are all bad things. You ever heard the expression, cast a shadow over something?

That's not good either, is it? And that's what trees do all day. Steel our solar energy. Water sucking, cats stealing, kite keeping, kid pushing, dream killing, energy thief and shadow casters. Overrated? They're master criminals. who remain at large, your witness. And arguing that trees are overrated.

Now, here to tell us why to him, trees are simply tremenous. Let's hear from John Steinberg. First, I want to point out for the radio listeners, I'm reading my notes off of my iPad. Dave is reading his notes off of paper, which if you didn't know, is made from dead trees. He has even less empathy for trees than I have for the children who made this iPad.

I used to be just like Dave. A heartless capitalist with no sense of morality. And also I hated trees. But then I found out that's where wood comes from. You guys know wood, right? What if I told you that you can take one of those annoying helicopter seeds that end up all over your windshield every fall and plant a coffee table? Yeah.

Or even a gazebo. And sure, you'll say, yeah, I'd like to grow my own gazebo. But it's too slow. Well, some things that are worthwhile take patience. a mighty gazebo from a tiny seed, waiting for me to finish making a point. Thank you. Steinberg!

Time now for the bare knuckle round. We're debating whether trees are overrated. So I'll ask you two funny sons of birches. Has your ass been handed to you lately? Look, maybe these tree puns are for an alder generation. If you don't get them, that's on you. to build the seed of an argument and cut each other down, starting now. If we get rid of family trees, there would be total chaos.

That's the only way I know who my parents are. You know, John, you mentioned that paper comes from dead trees, but have you ever seen a dead tree just standing there? Dead things don't stand. Dead things fall. I'm not impressed by some still standing won't admit it's dead zombie tree. Kill them all. Kill them all, I think.

I think horses, maybe. You think dead horses stand? They sleep standing, I don't know. We're not debating glue, all right? This is about trees. Stay on topic, John. Yeah. Listen, everybody is really excited about 3D printers, right?

But the original 3D printer was just a tree. A tree and a saw. and a planer, and then another saw, and then a bunch of other tools. Have you ever named a tree, John? You ever given a nickname? No, you don't name them because they're expendable. You know that. Shakespeare said, what's in a name? And we still quote that.

And we've known his name for how long now? Right? Yeah, everything important gets a name. That's what Shakespeare was on about. Yeah. Sure, Shakespeare said other stuff about trees that... Not off the top of my head, but... That's what the paper's for, buddy, writing stuff down.

All right, that's the bare-knuckle round, everybody. Time now for the firing line. In my hand, I have a list of questions on trees brought to you by William Shakespeare's most famous arboreal quote. I, there's the shrub. Yourleaf.org says studies find that children who climb trees are better at what? John.

Climbing other tree-shaped objects. That is logical. One and a half points for John. Dave Hampstead. They're better at tying tourniquets. People who climb trees are better at problem-solving and risk management. That's according to Yourleaf.org.

Not really an intellectual type of website, usually. Studies from Virginia Tech University find that trees in urban areas improve childhood development, hospital recovery times, and what else? John. Squirrel distribution. Audience has given you an official point.

Virginia Tech University finds that trees in urban areas improve childhood development, hospital recovery times, and job satisfaction. If you're a lumberjack. Yeah, yeah. According to BC Forest Safety, most tree chopping injuries happen where? Dave.

Near a tree. There it is. Yep. Don't you see what's happening out there? Stop to argue against that, but John? Outdoors. Yep, all so true. Also true.

The actual answer is within 10 feet of the stump. That's firing line, everybody. We did it. We did it. We're debating whether trees are all. Where the Trees are overrated, and it's almost time for our grand theater audience to vote. But first, here to tell us why he believes

that unappreciating trees is a crime that's tantamount to treason. Let's hear from John Steinberg. The only time the Americans seem to pay any attention to Canada is when we send them our wildfire smoke every summer. And the only fuel for that smoke is Trees. And no, it's not a great solution to a trade war. I would love it if we could send that smoke down south without burning any trees. Perhaps we could just burn remote small towns full of young families.

But we don't live in a perfect world. Trees are like nature's telephone poles. Now Dave's going to say, there's no wires connecting them. That's a lot to ask. I'm just impressed they got the pole part down. Plus, how many people still have a landline? See, your arguments make no sense, Dave. What tree is. Thank you.

On behalf of the trees. Now, here to insist that to him, trees are just a bunch of saps. Let's hear from Dave Hempstead. Let's dispel the myth. Leaves create oxygen, not trees. Trees just take all the credit. That's why the leaves go crazy every fall. They don't care what happens to them.

They just want the truth to be out there. They change color to get our attention. And as soon as we notice, the trees murder the leaves and force us to rake up their soggy carcasses. Their roots rip up our driveways, destroy basements, Their limbs fall on our cars. We are under attack by these monstrosities. Thank God for woodpeckers.

The unsung heroes of the avian fraternity. And the mighty beaver. Who takes down more wood than a beaver? I'll be damned. But I'm going to stand here and let John insult our national animal in support of these stupid water-sucking, cat stealing, kite-keeping, kid-pushing. dream killing, shadow cast, and property wrecking,

and credit-taking, leaf murderers. And they litter. As I say, Steve, burn them all. The prosecution rests. Dave, Hempstead is anti-tree and he's fired up about it. It is time to vote here in London by applause. Who agreed with Dave that trees are basically all bark and no bite, Dave Hempstead?

And who felt that John Pee? planted a tiny seed of love for trees that grew into a majestic argument, John Steinberg. It is pretty close. It is pretty close. But this is an impressive achievement in the Forest City. You have somehow turned them against trees. The winner is Dave Hempstead, everybody. Big hand for Dave Hempstead and John Steinberg. Hey, debaters, listeners. We've got more facts and funny coming your way. But while you're here, why not drop us a five-star rating or review? It really helps new listeners. find us. Thanks for your support. This ascent isn't for everyone. You need grit to climb this high

this often. You've got to be an underdog that always over delivers. You've got to be 6,500 hospital staff, 1,000 doctors all doing so much with so little. You've got to be Scarborough. Defined by our uphill battle and always striving towards new heights. And you can help us keep climbing. Donate. at Lovescarborough.ca.cability is making your education work for you, regardless of circumstance. At Athabasca University, we have no entrance requirements for undergrad programs and automatic acceptance. If you have the desire to learn, A.U is a great option. Open your options with a more accessible online degree and choose an education that works for you, not the other way around. Find out how at atabaskyu.c.c.u.c.c.com.

Are you ready to meet your next pair of debater? This comedian wore cargo shorts to a wedding, a decision she made out of pocket. It's Toronto's Kate Davis. Come on out, Kate, taking the podium to my left. And this comic daydreamed about enlisting in the Navy, but it turns out he was only naval gazing. It's London, Ontario's Boris Hittia.

There he comes, crossing the stage. To my right, your topic is one that were flattered to present. Praise. Do you learn anything from it? We'd debate the things that don't even seem like debates. In the comedy game, you can find both compliments and criticisms

online where people can be anonymous so they can say whatever they like or, more often, what they don't. Personally, I pine for the olden days when you learned something from laughs live on stage, and if you didn't get laughs, you'd get free produce thrown at you. The next time you see a comedian not doing well on stage,

ask yourself, is that a no-talent hack or a genius free grocery getter? Time now for a debate that we hope earns your praise, London. So, whereas it can create a dependency on validation, produce a false sense of security, and decrease motivation, be it resolved, you learn nothing from praise. Kate, you arguing for this, please. You have two minutes, starting now, Kate Davis.

Thank you. Thank you, Steve. Okay, guys, I've raised three kids, all with gentle parenting, with soft parenting. We're praising them from everything to how they tie their little shoelaces, even though they were Velcro,

to how great their poops were, and you know what? They're screwed. Praise is useless. It creates a dependency. It inflates egos, and it turns grown adults into golden retrievers.

looking for, oh my God, good job. We learn from failure. Failure. Like the time I didn't use my emergency brake on the hill and my car found a new unofficial parking spot at the bottom of the hill in Mr. DiAngelo's living room. Yeah, failure. But I learned.

Praise is absolute nonsense. I mean, what kind of psycho even likes it? Like, honestly, Farras, tell me how great I look today. Go on. Tell me. You look great today, Kay. Oh, my God, I'm not even wearing makeup. Ew. I mean, thank you.

See, the thing is, we want praise, but we don't even believe the praise or the compliment. It is a sugar rush wrapped in a gold star that teaches adults nothing, except how to fish for the next compliment, like caffeinated raccoons. You know what happens? When we have a dependency on validation,

we create orange presidents. This is like glitter. Fun for three seconds, and then you're just vacuuming it up, wondering where the hell your world went wrong, only to find it stuck to your butt. Thank you, Steve. Kate Davis, everybody.

Thank you, Kate. Now, here to tell us why, when it comes to high praise, we're all superheroes in his marvelous universe. Let's hear from Farris Hitea. Thank you, Steve. Hey, London. You are beautiful. That's right.

Don't listen to literally everyone else. See, that London is a compliment. Nice, right? Especially because I know you don't hear it often. No, no, I can relate. And see what you just did? That laughter is praise. And you know what I learned? Is you don't believe that stuff either.

stuff either, but do you learn from praise? Of course you do. You learn that you are perfect. In a world that gets increasingly broken, isn't it nice to know that you are pristine? Stunning. A rose in the concrete? A Puerto Rican in America.

Hmm. Has anyone tried telling bad bunny he's the best bunny? Okay? Look, as the children of a validation-free household would know, we clutch on to every compliment tighter than Erica Kirk does to merch sales. And sure, the trauma of our younger years means no nicety could fill the hole our father's left. But it's the odd pat on the back that keeps us, and please excuse me for using Steve's lexicon, uh, thugging it out. copyrighted far as I copyrighted that.

I'm sorry. Why deny a reminder that you're valuable, that you're worth it? Praise is so valuable that it's the only thing God mandates. Well, there's other stuff God wants you to do. But God always has to come in every few centuries and describe himself as the most gracious, most merciful. You know why God does that? Because you don't.

God messed around and gave you a whole universe, and all you did was update your LinkedIn bio to self-made Crypto King. If God needs it, you sure is heck needed. Thank you. Forest Hetea, everybody. On behalf of praise. And it's time now for the bare knuckle round.

We're debating that you learn nothing from praise. So release some endorse fins. I like when they physically hurt you. Release some endorphins while you're championing at the bit. I should remind you that this is the debaters, not the praise is right. So let's get this round started, but just know whatever happens, I'm proud of you both. Starting now.

I think it's crazy that you're this anti-praise given you raised your kids like so nice and sweet. Yeah, and look what happened to them. They don't leave. They just come back with more people. Thanks for letting me stay at your place, by the way. No problem. I really appreciate that. No problem. Thank you.

He's a nice kid. I don't know. Honestly, like your parents raised you without validation. And look how great you turned out. I, yeah. Kids. Way better than you... No, your kids are great.

That's the best party I've ever been to. Honestly. Look, I think you need to learn to take a compliment, I think, you know? Like, because I think when people love you, you know, that's a great route to loving yourself. Oh, stop it. Oh, my God. This is what happens at 50. You turn into bitter, right?

I don't need any more compliments. Like, people who need compliments turn into people like Doug Ford. Best party I've ever been to. That's the bare knuckle round. We're debating whether you're not. You learn nothing from praise. It's time now for the firing line. In my hand, I have a list of questions on learning nothing from praise brought to you by

backhanded compliments. Backhanded compliments generally frowned upon unless you're a tennis coach. Thank you. Two tennis players. The knot.com says if you're not sure how to praise your husband or boyfriend, some recommended words of praise include, you're the best list. I trust you completely, and what else? Uh-oh.

Kate? It happens to every guy. Don't worry. I'm gonna give that one a soft four. Sorry, buddy. Farris? I agree. You do have the best mom in the world. See, that was a good answer. We just took so long from the question. I really ran out of steam, man.

I apologize. The knot.com says that if you want to praise your husband or boyfriend, which I've never met someone that does, but some recommended words of praise, you're the best listener, I trust you completely. And you make me laugh harder than anyone else. Or you can do what my wife, Nancy, does, and say, oh, you do know how to clean that. Psychology today says, for praise to be effective, it needs to be what?

I'm sorry, I'm just learning how to use it. One more time. Forrest. That's the nicest thing an old white man's ever said to me. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Thank you.

We're going to give you a fresh read of the question. It's going to be so great. It's going to be so great. I 100% forgot the question. It's going to be so great. Psychology today says, for praise to be effective, it needs to be wise. What?

Forrest? Constant. That's good. That's a good answer. Plus one and a half. For phrase to be effective, it needs to be genuine. Yep. According to an article in Forbes, when it comes to praising millennials,

the best thing to do is what? Forrest. Give them money. Planes in the crowd. Wait a minute. Do we have millennials here? Kate? Ignore them.

Did you just give yourself minus one? You know what? I appreciate that. I appreciate you. Like, no, no, withdrawing. When it comes to praising millennials, the best thing to do is be specific. I don't even think Forbes knows what children are.

And that is the firing line, everybody. Moving right along to a debate we hope is praiseworthy. It's almost time for our grand theater audience to place their votes. But first, here to tell Kate that while he gives her very high praise for doing her best, she's still wrong. Let's hear from Farris Hittia. All right.

Listen, I'm not saying we can fix everything. And this might be a crazy way to communicate low self-esteem, but praise validates and picks people up. You know what you get when you don't validate? A parking ticket. And the only thing's sadder than getting that parking ticket is thinking you got it because the officer doesn't like you. Look, of course there can be too much. We've all had grandparents, but saying you give nothing because you learn nothing

is blasphemous. You know what praise taught me, Kate? That our relationship is worth more than how I think you look tonight. You're perfect, London. Thank you. Giving praise to praise. Now, here to praise a little hell against praise.

Let's hear from Kate Davis. Thank you. Look, praise is just overused nowadays. Give us a good Google review. Okay. My husband went in. I stayed in the car. Thank you Canadian tire.

Uber drivers, always asking for five stars. What are you in grade one? What I did? Because I'm Canadian and I'm polite. I gave him five stars. And don't even get me started on tipping. Tipping. That used to mean something.

That was pretty. Praise for great service, great job. Now I go to my convenience store. They asked me if I want to tip. I got the pop out of the fridge myself. What are we doing? Like, honestly, we need to stop being addicted to praise and start being allergic to mediocrity.

Like, this is ridiculous. Oh, thank you. One person. Okay. And I just want to end with this. Look, Forrest, you're gonna win tonight. They love you and they're gonna shower you with praise. And I just want you all to know what you're actually going to do to him

because next Friday, he's going to be riding his little skateboard to a comedy open mic to be paid in beer tickets. Good for you. Thank you. Kate Davis. I think we broke Kate. It's time to vote. By applause.

Who agrees with Kate that the only thing to learn is that there's nothing to learn from praise, Kate Davis. Some nice response for Kate. And who agreed with Forrest that the family that praises together stays is together? Forrest Hittia. It's very close. But I'm going to give this one to Farris Hittia. Keep out with the praise, everybody.

Big hand for Kate Davis and Farris Hittia. That's all for this week. I'm Steve Patterson saying to all our listeners out there, just keep doing what you're doing. provided it's legal and helpful to others. I'll argue with you again soon, Canada. Good night. Debaters is created by Richard Side.

This week's episode was produced by Nicole Callender, Chloe Edbrook, Dean Jenkinson, and Graham Clark. With continuity by Graham Clark, Diana Francis, and Gary Jones. With technical production by James Porella and Chris Sampson. Story editing by Gary Jones. With special thanks to Katie Ellen Humphreys, David Pride, and Emily Ferrier.

Executive producer of CBC Radio Comedy is Lee Pitts. And thanks to everyone at the Grand Theater in London. For more CBC podcasts, go to cBC.ca.ca slash podcasts.