The Debaters - Breakup Songs & Hard Rock Cafe

Episode Date: February 13, 2025

Do breakup songs rule? This Valentine’s weekend, Anesti Danelis and Jan Caruana hit all the right notes when it comes to these tragic tunes. Then, are Hard Rock establishments worth a visit? Elvira Kurt and Kyle Brownrigg make memora-believers of their Ottawa audience when they discuss this famed franchise.

Hi there, listener. Steve Patterson here. If you're a frequent traveler like I am, you know that traveling's great. But as a wise young girl with fancy red shoes once said, there's no place like home. That's why when I travel, by myself or with my family, I often book Airbnbs for that homey touch. Like the one I stayed at in Stratford, Ontario recently, where I performed a show and took in some Shakespeare. Though to be clear, I didn't perform Shakespeare. There's no perchance of that happening. I was not meant to be, or not to be. Anyway, my point is, I like the feeling of home when I'm on the road, and I feel like I'm not alone in this, especially when I'm traveling with my family, which got me thinking, when we're on the road, our house could be a home away from home for

fellow travelers, too, if we hosted on Airbnb. It just makes sense. Actually, it makes dollars, and those dollars could help pay for our next family trip. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at airbnb.ca.host. Something to prepend on and on. This is a CBC Podcast. The debaters where comedians fight with facts and funny, and this audience picks the winner. Now here's a man whose voice will get you fired up, Steve Patterson. Hey, hello Canada.

Thanks, Graham. Welcome back to The Debaters. We're here in majestic Ottawa, a city full of exquisite cuisine. That wasn't a joke. I shouldn't have stopped. Should have just kept talking. The famed Le Cordon Bleu cooking school has one campus in North America, and it's right here in Ottawa. In fact, in the year 2022, the Ottawa campus won best culinary training institution at

the annual World Culinary Awards. Yes! So suck on that, France! The school now even has a plant-based foods diploma program. Why? Pfft. Why, you might say, disembodied listener? It seems impossible to refine carnivores like myself, but be sure to try the succulent escar

tofu and let me know how it tastes because no thanks. It's time now to meet two debaters who will eat each other up. This comic pitched a reality show with comedians loitering called Last Comic By Standing. It's Toronto's Anesti Danelis. Anesti, come on out. There he is! Hello, welcome, taking his place to my left.

And this comic is no wannabe comedian, it's Because News' Jan Caruana! Always happy to have Jan back on the show. Hi everybody, hi Steve. Hi Jan, welcome back. Debaters, this topic is bound to make you feel your feelings. Breakup songs. Are they the best?

Breakup songs can bring up sad memories for people, so let me just say to our long time loyal listeners that we at The Debaters will never break up with you. In 2025, we will be celebrating 20 years together. 20 years! Sure, we have our arguments on every episode, but no one really keeps score, I actually do, and it always ends up with a laugh

until it doesn't. Traditionally, the 20th anniversary gift is find China, hence you find the China shop and we'll bring the bull. Time now for a debate that will have you crashing with laughter. So, whereas they can help us feel connected, release our emotions, and even find comfort, be it resolved that breakup songs rule. they can help us feel connected, release our emotions, and even find comfort. Be it resolved that breakup songs rule.

Anesti, you are arguing for this, please. You have two minutes. Starting now, Anesti Danelis. Okay. So there may not be a cure for the common cold or those intrusive thoughts that tell you, maybe I should get bangs. But there, yeah, but there is a cure for the broken heart,

and it's breakup songs. You know, they help us reflect and process our emotions. They are the vehicle that lifts us up off the floor and drives us right back into pound town. Yeah. You know, because after a breakup, all you want to do is feel seen, you know? Unless you're using a private browser to stalk your ex's LinkedIn. But, but regardless, you know, because after a breakup, all you want to do is feel seen. You know, unless you're using a private browser to stalk your ex's LinkedIn.

But regardless, you know, these songs, they feel like they're talking directly to your experience. You know, like, I'm all out of faith. This is how I feel. I'm cold and I am shamed. Lying naked on the floor. I get that because I've been there. Yeah. Cold. Shamed, lying naked on the floor. I get that, because I've been there. Yeah, cold, shamed, lying naked on the floor.

I mean, it wasn't for a breakup. For me, that's just a Tuesday, but I felt seen. And we need these cathartic songs to release our emotions and get back out there into the dating world so we can find somebody who will inevitably send us back into therapy. It's true, every time somebody on a dating app messages you, hello, a therapist gets their wings.

And let's not forget, Taylor Swift, okay, she invented the breakup song and her Eros tour single-handedly saved the global economy. Okay, your city has more funding now thanks to teenage girls and blonde twinks and potholes suddenly filled up in your city, you can thank Ashley with an I-E-G-H. So whether you've just been dumped or you're going through the thick of it,

blast some Adele, belt out, nevermind I'll find someone like you. Because it'll help you realize that you will find somebody like him because you've been crying over the most generic man whose whole personality was having a beard. Thank you. And that's the Daedalus on behalf of Break Up Song.

Anesti Daedalus on behalf of Break Up Songs. Now, here to take a wrecking ball to Break Up Songs, let's hear from Jan Caruana. Thank you. Thank you, Steve. Break Up Songs can help nurse a broken heart, but they can also induce wallowing, self-loathing, and the worst karaoke renditions of songs that have no business being in a karaoke songbook. Unbreak My Heart might slap for, like, a second, but do you really want to see Jessica from Hull's mascara-streaked face wailing away at you when you're just trying to enjoy a mozzarella stick?

Call me a glass half full kind of gal, but I don't want to hear a song about two souls being torn apart. I want to hear a song about people mashing their parts together. Repeatedly. With impunity. I want, let's get it on. Islands in the stream, or sky rockets in flight. Whoo!

Afternoon delight, whoop, whoo! Thank you. Billboard's number one breakup song of all time is All Too Well by Taylor Swift. The 10-minute version. That song goes longer than most of my relationships. Now, I give credit to Taylor Swift. She created a whole cottage industry for herself, turning pain into pay.

But nobody wants to turn on that episode of The Bear and see Cousin Richie blasting that song after he spent a long night polishing forks. We want to see him crank his radio at 2-Eleven, drive recklessly into the night, singing, it's a love story, baby, just say yes. You broke up. I'm sorry.

But eventually, you gotta get back out there, babe. How are you gonna find somebody who's gonna match your freak if you're too busy listening to Nothing Compares to You on repeat? In conclusion, when it comes to breakup songs and breakups in general, I'm gonna quote the queen herself and say,

Shake it off, shake it off. Thank you. Yeah. Woo. Woo. Jan Caruana is against breakup songs. Time now for the Bare Knuckle Round. We're debating breakup songs, so go your own way. Or you could lose in a landslide. These are of a certain era and don't pretend you're not from it. I'll think of you as somebody that I used to know and

if the audience spots you they'll just walk on by. A mix of genres there. But say to yourself I will survive because I know that my heart will go on and on, starting now. Okay, well, I want to talk about Jessica for a second, okay? What's wrong with Jessica Frumhull bawling her eyes out while singing Unbreak My Heart at karaoke? We need to normalize crying in public. Not only does it inspire others to feel their emotions, but if done right can get you a free muffin from your barista.

I mean if you're that desperate for a free muffin I can think of a lot easier things to bear than your soul, Juan. And also I feel like you're implying like I don't know suffering. I know suffering, okay? I just raw dogged a five-hour train ride because my phone was at 8% and I forgot my charger, alright? But eventually, you just suck it up. You just find a cord that fits your jack and Plug in, babe. audience laughter

You are saying that breakup songs make you feel seen. I don't want to feel seen after a breakup. I want to lurk in the shadows until I'm ready to love again, and then I want to spring out at the last second, sneak attack, I'm doing better than you. audience laughter audience applause I'm doing better than you. Laughter Applause Applause

Well, you know, sometimes you just need to wallow in yourself pity, okay? You gotta take that space in the shadows for yourself until you develop the ick for yourself. You know? That sudden what the hell am I doing here? Cause it helps you go from I'm gonna miss the cute way they ate food

to I'm so glad I will never again have to watch them eat a donut starting from the hole. Okay, that's a good place to stop it. That's the bear knuckle round, everybody. Good line to stop on, you know? It is time now for the firing line in my hand. I have a list of questions on breakup songs brought to you by the Heartbreak Hotel.

The Heartbreak Hotel, located down at the end of Lonely Street at 24 Sus Six Drive. I'm just saying, there's nobody there. Finish the lyrics from Elton John's song, I'm Still Standing. The threats you made were meant to cut me down, and if our love was just a circus... Jan. -♪ I'd stick my head in a lion's mouth.

-♪ Pfft. All right. It fits. I mean, it fits. You sang it well. One point. Thank you. Eddesteep? Um, I don't think we should participate because of how they treat the animals.

I mean, maybe if you sang it, I would have gotten... I don't think we should participate because of how they treat the animals. See? You see? Ottawa loves the music. They love the music. If our love was just a circus, you'd be a clown by now. We also would have accepted, you'd be a candle in the wind. Wrong song, right artist, close enough. Spotify's Trends expert, Shannon Cook, says there are two categories of breakup songs, raw, tender tracks that tap into the fragility of the human heart

and what other kind? Jan? The kind that make you slow dance with your dog, even though you can feel he's so embarrassed for you? HM? HM? HM? HM?

HM? HM? Oh, I miss my dog. HM? HM? Two categories of breakup songs. Oh, I miss my dog. Two categories of breakup songs. Tender tracks, tap into the fragility of the human heart, and dismissive, I don't care, I'm over you songs. Right?

Which Canadian artist's song made the top 10 of Billboard.com's list of best breakup songs of all time. Jesse. Another Sarah McLachlan song that will inevitably be used in a commercial to make you feel bad? Good guess. One point, but no. Jan? Well, Steve, some people think it's Joni Mitchell's both sides now, but it's actually her lesser known hit, No, It's My Turn to Talk.

Do you want a few bars? Of course I do. Fights and bites and bad names called, the past is sauce you threw at the wall. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Points all around. The actual answer. What Canadian artist made the top ten of Billboard's best breakup songs of all time? Ottawa's Alanis Morissette with You Oughta Know. Yeah! That's the firing line, everybody. Shout out to Alanis. It is almost time for our Centrepoint Theatre audience to vote, but first, here again to tell us why she's not torn over bashing breakup songs.

Let's hear again from Jan Caruana. Thank you. APPLAUSE For every dancing on my own, there are ten stings singing Every Breath You Take. Overwrought, clingy and scary. Every breath you take, every move you make, I'll be watching you. No thank you, get a life, I'll get a restraining order.

I'm all for feeling your feelings, but since when is spending a night in your underwear eating ice cream a sad thing? Let's blast some big shiny tunes, baby! Blow out those dusty old candles, girl, because the breakup song has a cool, awesome cousin. The revenge song. All the catharsis, none of the mopey baloney.

Took a Louisville slugger to both headlights, slashed the coal in all four tires. I say, embrace your inner Carrie, your inner Kelly, your inner CeeLo. Life's too short to listen to sad music. Let's get nuts! Thank you, Ottawa! Good night! Jens Caruana is very excited about bashing breakup songs. I've never seen someone so happy about others' pain.

Now, here to tell us that if he could say anything to breakup songs, it would be nothing compares to you, and you may have guessed by the crowd's reaction, he's going for a guitar! It's Anesti Danelis! All right, so I don't know who's listening or what you're going through, but to prove my point, I'm going gonna sing you a song I wrote about my breakup with my last boyfriend. We cool with queers here?

Just checking. I feel broken, I feel used You left and I'm confused This apartment looks so empty without your furniture You took it because it was all yours Well, you took it because it was all yours And I'm confused this apartment looks so empty without your furniture You took it because it was all yours Well you broke my heart, now I'm gonna break something of yours

If I ever see you on the street, I'm gonna punch you in your paper straw Cause it's so disappointing and it only lasted for a minute. And it's bad for the environment. And nobody should have to experience it. And also the glue that binds it together is toxic. Like you. If I ever see you next to me, I'm gonna punch you right in your magic mic.

Though I'm not sure how magic it is, because you always struggle to get it to levitate. Yeah! From the windows to the walls to the walls, there's a teardrop down my eyeballs. I can't wait to punch you in your little jaw. Mm. Thank you. I can't wait to punch you in your little jawn. Thank you. Anesti Denelis!

Bringing us home, on behalf of Why Breakup Songs Are Good, Jan says the opposite. Let's see how this audience has decided by applause. Who thought that Jan's anti-breakup song, Argument, brought us to the end of the road, Jan Caruana! Big hand for Jan! And who was swift to agree with Anesti's tailor-made breakup song banter, Anesti Danelis? Alright, the crowd has spoken. They have gotten in touch with their sensitive side. We're up with the breakup songs and his first debate ever is a win.

It's Anesti Danelis, everybody. Big hand for Anesti and Jan Caruana. Hey, debaters listeners, it would be music to our ears if you could hit the follow button on our podcast. We promise to hit all the right notes with early access to episodes and making sure you get your regular fill of facts and funny. In Scarborough, there's this fire behind our eyes. A passion in our bellies.

It's in the hearts of our neighbors. The eyes of our nurses. And the hands of our eyes. A passion in our bellies. It's in the hearts of our neighbors. The eyes of our nurses. And the hands of our doctors. It's what makes Scarborough Scarborough. In our hospitals we do more than anyone thought possible. With less than anyone could imagine. But it's time to imagine what we can do with more. Join Scarborough Health Network and together we can turn grit into greatness. Donate at lovescarborough.ca. You don't have to face debt alone. We're here to help you regain control of your finances with trusted solutions. Visit Canada.ca slash debt-solutions and take control today.

A message from the Government of Canada. Are you ready to meet your next pair of debaters? Listen to that! This comedian attended a lecture about protons and was positively thrilled. It's Toronto's Alvira Kurtz! Alvira Kurtz, there she is, making her way across the stage to my right. And this comic gets his friends to hook up his Christmas tree since many hands make lights work.

It's Ottawa's own Kyle Brownrig. Welcome, sir. Thank you. All right, debaters, let's get into it, shall we? Your topic is one that we think is going to rock, the Hard Rock franchise. Should we all visit them? One person thinks we're joking. I don't know if you all know this, Ottawa, you're getting your very own Hard Rock Cafe, Hotel and Casino.

Yes, scheduled for 2025. And if the provincial government has nothing to do with it, maybe that will happen. I will let the debaters decide if that's Huey Lewis and the good news or just a cheap trick. But I do wonder why there isn't a smooth jazz franchise where you can go in and have a nice meal listening

to soothing soprano saxophone and wonder, why is that Kenny G statue so lifelike? And then you realize it is Kenny G. He works there as a server. On your birthday, for a little tip, he'll play especially for you. And for a big tip, he'll play especially for you. And for a big tip, he'll stop. Time now for a debate that we hope is better than sax. So, whereas the rock and roll cafes, shops, hotels, and casinos are world renowned, be it resolved that everyone should visit

hard rock establishments. Elvira, you are arguing for this please. You have two minutes starting now. Elvira, you are arguing for this, please. You have two minutes starting now. Elvira Kurt. Thank you. Thank you, everybody. Thank you, Steve. My only job here is to reach one group, the undecided.

True believers already know what the hard rock gives you is the next best thing to living the rock star dream, buying a chunk of it. So you never saw Jimi Hendrix live, you can walk past a display case containing the pants he wore to Woodstock on your way to the blackjack table. Eat a cheeseburger under a glass frame holding Cher's problematic headdress. Butt out your smoke next to a wall mount supporting Shakira's vuvuzela. I was led to believe that you knew a hard rock was coming.

So when I say the undecided, what I really mean is the unaware. But just get behind it, would you? Unless you think I'm either talking out of my ass about the hard rock or a shill for the franchise, please know that I am also a customer. Am I saying I visited all 172 or possibly 300 locations depending on which link you click on in over 70 countries around the world? No, but I have stayed in three of them and one other country, so I'd say I'm an expert. It was All for Work, a lesbian travel company who supplies their own entertainment.

On one of these trips, I was accidentally given the rock royalty suite, two decadent floors with too many bathrooms and a personal concierge, all to myself. Did I feel like a rock star? No, turns out it was a mistake. Wrong room. But for one moment in that cavernous suite, I did feel their sad empty loneliness. And how lucky I was to return to my own life. That's why't actually suck so hard. Rock on. Alright. Alvira Kirk with a very interesting twist on why you should visit hard rock establishments. Now here to tell us why he thinks anyone who's visited a hard rock establishment has basically hit rock bottom. Let's hear from Kyle Brown Ray.

If you go into any vintage clothing store on the planet, you will find a Hard Rock Cafe T-shirt. globally, we may disagree on politics, on religion, on human rights, but apparently the one thing that unites us all is the regret that we feel after we spend money at the Hard Rock Cafe. The Hard Rock Cafe is supposed to be rock and roll theme,

for sure. Because nothing says rock and roll like a $30 hamburger that rocks your colon harder than the music. In 2025, Ottawa will have its very own Hard Rock Hotel and Casino. From a business perspective, I'm very confused by that. We already had a Hard Rock Cafe on York Street that opened in 1996 that was closed in 2013. Now they're spending $350 million to bring back a failed business as a casino and hotel.

That's like building an enchanted resort and amusement park sponsored by Zellers. Why are we building new things that we don't need? Why don't we just finish building the things that we actually started like, oh, I don't know, the LRT? It's also false advertising by the way. It's supposed to be hard rock. The Atlantic City's memorabilia collection features a t-shirt worn by Miley Cyrus in 2007. Okay, imagine bringing your 65-year-old father, a die-hard rock and roll fan, for his birthday, hoping to see items from, like, the Rolling Stones

or Aerosmith, and instead he gets a dirty T-shirt worn by Hannah Montana. So, if you are craving overpriced nostalgia, go to the Hard Rock Cafe or save your money and visit any vintage record store in Ottawa. Okay? The music will be better and you can pick up a Hard Rock Cafe t-shirt that they've been trying to get rid of since 2013. Thank you.

Kyle Brownrig. A-ha! to get rid of since 2013. Thank you. Woo! Kyle Brownrigg. Ah-ha! Opening argument on why Ottawa does not need the hard rock back, and you came out firing there. So anything could happen now.

One more time for Kyle Brownrigg, ladies and gentlemen. All right, debaters, time now for the bare-knuckle round. We're debating hard rock establishments, so I have to hotel you. I see no reason why by the end this audience won't have gone gaga for you and clapped on cue. I didn't like that myself. I said it and I didn't like that myself. I said it and I didn't like it.

Now, Alain is the time to get into a bon jovial mood and Lee air on the side of funny. So before these puns get any knoffler, time to make memorable levers out of us starting now. Because you don't want people to have things to do here in Ottawa, we are literally the only entertainment in this town tonight. What do you have against fun, Kyle? That's really what I'm saying here.

Give people somewhere to go, something to do. That nine-year-old needs to gamble. We do things though, we do entertainment things in Ottawa. During the summer we have Blues Fest, right? That's a lot of fun. If you don't know, you take a folding chair and you sit in a ditch next to the War Museum. It's great. It's so much fun. It's awesome. Right, right. And then there's always that big trucker thing that goes on

here. Every time they get mad about something. Well, I mean, this absolute comedy on Preston Street, live entertainment, that's a lovely place, that's where I stand and stand up. But the Hard Rock Cafe, it's like, you know if you go there, like, you're gonna leave with an infection, so it's like, why? Right? Which is a souvenir! You didn't even spend anything! But the hotel, right?

Like, that's just code for a fare, right? These people are dying for something to do! There's nowhere to go to cheat on your spouse in Ottawa! Kyle, I'm gonna give you the last word on this one. Don't go to the Hard Rock Cafe. There you go. That's my last word. Well, they didn't know that it was coming, so they probably won't be going.

Especially if it's open late. All right. That was the Bare Knuckle Round. It is time now for the Firing Line. In my hand I have a list of questions about the Hard Rock franchise brought to you by Your Appetite. Don't ruin it by filling up on their hard-as-rock dinner rolls. Hard Rock says Canada's only Hard Rock Hotel and Casino will open here in Ottawa in 2025 and will include a 150-room hotel, an 1800-seat theater, 1500 slot machines, and what else? Elvira. A strict 6 p.m. curfew.

Oh, the crowd likes it. Crowd likes it. Three points. Kyle. A support group for people who just left the 6 p.m. Nickelback show. Also good, two and a half. who just left the 6 p.m. Nickelback show. All so good. Two and a half.

It'll have all those things, 1,500 slot machines, and more than 10 restaurants. Oh, I love it. Hard Rock says its brand pillars are six M's. The first three are music, menu, and merchandise. What are the final three? Kyle, microwaved mystery meat. Okay, the audience liked that one.

Okay, two and a half. The final three are memorabilia, monument, and mottos. Woohoo! The short-lived Hard Rock Amusement Park in South Carolina had roller coasters named after famous rock stars like Led Zeppelin the Ride, Eagles, Life in the Fast Lane, and what else? Kyle? Elton John's all-male strip club, Rocketman.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sadly no, but good answer.

Elvira? Stevie Wonder's bumper cars. Yeah. Yeah. Good. That's good. That's good. Three points for that.

The actual answer is Bon Jovi's Slippery When Wet, I'm Guessing, Waterslide. And that's the fiery line, everybody. Alright, we're into the home stretch here at the beautiful Centerpoint Theatre, and it's almost time for the audience to vote. But first, here again to tell us why he wishes every Hard Rock establishment would just crawl back under a Hard Rock. Let's hear again from Kyle Brownreg. -♪

Remember, Elvira is arguing that everyone should visit the Hard Rock Cafe. We did. That's why it closed. It's still the same crappy restaurant, but now it has a casino attached to it. The only difference is now when you order an overpriced burger, your choice of sides includes fries, salad,

and a gambling problem. Save your cash for a real rock concert at the Canadian Tire Center. It's more authentic, and don't worry, you'll still get an overpriced stadium burger, but it will still be cheaper and made faster than anything they serve at the Hard Rock Cafe. Thank you.

Kyle Brownrig, good points. Strikes a chord here with the crowd. Alright, now here to tell us why deciding to visit any Hard Rock establishment is not hard rocket science to her, let's hear from Elvira Kurt. is not hard rock, it's science to her. Let's hear from Elvira Kurt. The world is divided into those who know and love the hard rock brand and the tragic, super judgy Never Rockers. That there are those among us who know not the joy, the thrill, the logo on a t-shirt, mug, or keychain flexing glory of being part of the Hard Rock flock is shocking. Let us bow our heads and pity them.

That's long enough. The Hard Rock brand is a loud, flashy show-off, seducing us with its bad-boy energy, all devil horns and smudged eyeliner. Yo, you want a backstage pass and some groupies to go with them nachos? Sure. Well, too bad. We just serve pub food. But you still get to sit next to Lenny Kravitz's infinity scarf from 2012.

Yes, I do. Coo, coo, ca-choo. I am the walrus. Thank you. Alvira Kirk. All right. A passionate final plea on behalf of Hard Rock. Let's see how the audience has decided.

It's time to vote by applause. Who thought that Alvira rocked your world with her hard rock ruminations Elvira Kirk. Okay some rocking support for Elvira. All right and how many of you rocked out with Kyle's anti hard rock rollouts Kyle Brownrigge. The crowd has spoken. They are not into hard rock, but they do like Kyle Brownrig. He is our winner. Big hand for Kyle Brownrig and Albera Kurt, everybody. Well, that's all for this week. I'm Steve Patterson saying, don't worry, Ottawa.

Until that hard rock hotel gets here, you can still rock soft. I'll argue with you again soon, Canada. Good night. The Debaters is created by Richard Side. and soon Canada, goodnight! by James Forella and Pascal Jobin. Story editing by Gary Jones. With special thanks to Katie Ellen Humphries, Emily Ferrier, and David Pride. Executive producer of CBC Radio Comedy is Lee Pitts. And thanks to everyone at the Centerpoint Theatre in Ottawa.