The Debaters - Does nothing beat a day at the ballpark? And is Toronto the worst city in Canada to commute in?

Episode Date: May 8, 2025

It’s a homerun when we talk about a day at the baseball stadium, and whether commuting in Toronto is enough to drive you up the wall.Featuring: Patrick Dussault, Simon Rakoff, Isabel Zaw-Tun, and Don Kelly.

When a body is discovered 10 miles out to sea, it sparks a mind-blowing police investigation. There's a man living in this address in the name of a deceased. He's one of the most wanted men in the world. This isn't really happening. Officers are finding large sums of money. It's a tale of murder, skullduggery and international intrigue. So who really is he? I'm Sam Mullins and this is Sea of Lies

from CBC's Uncovered, available now. This is a CBC Podcast. Hey Canada, are you ready to watch us square off? From the home of Nathan Phillips Square in Toronto, it's the debaters! The debaters where comedians play with facts and funny, and this audience picks the winner. Now here's a man who works all the comedy angles,

Steve Patterson. Hey, thanks Graham Clark! Hello Canada! Welcome back to The Debaters! It is always great to be back here in my hometown of Toronto. Yeah! A city bursting with tourist attractions. Everybody knows the Seahed Tower, but what some might not know is at the base of that tower, there is a hard-to-find monument that was a gift from Switzerland a while back.

It's a half-ton chunk of rock from the Matterhorn shaped like a giant piece of Toblerone chocolate. To the untrained eye, it's just a giant rock, though. So come on, Swiss friends. Giving a giant rock as a gift says we value our friendship heavily. But not in a way we want others to notice. You know what would have been a better gift, Switzerland? An actual giant Toblerone bar that would replenish itself every couple days. Anyway, it is time now to meet two rock-solid debaters.

This comic was asked where was the closest subway stop, so he paused for station identification. It's Montreal's Patrick Dussault. Patrick Dussault. There he is. Welcome. Nice to be here, thank you, my friend. And this comic tried ironing his pants smoothly but faced pockets of resistance. It's Toronto's own Simon Rackham. Simon. Always a pleasure. Always a treat. Having you back, sir. Your topic is one that will make you stand up and cheer. Is a day at the baseball park the very best?

Listen to that energy, Canada. We are in a city that has Canada's best, mostly because it's its only major league baseball team, the Toronto Blue Jays. There it is. One of the most iconic moments in Canadian sports history is the Bautista Bat Flip. Remember that? When the Jays won an epic playoff battle against the Texas Rangers here in Toronto in October of 2015. It's known as the biggest flip in Canadian sports history,

other than Toronto Maple Leaf supporters flipping their support to a different team once the Leafs are eliminated each year. There's some angry people, and there's one woman flipping me the bird. Anyway, let's get on the bandwagon towards this major league debate, shall we? So whereas it's a fun day out filled with sunshine, classic food and drink, and the great North American pastime, be it resolved, nothing beats a day at the ballpark. Patrick, you're arguing for this, please. You have two minutes.

Starting now, Patrick Dussault. Thank you, Steve. Now, as a middle-aged man, I am both genetically predisposed and legally required to love baseball. So, of course, I love a day at the ballpark. But do you know who loves it just as much? People who hate baseball. Why is this?

It is because ballparks operate on the same principle as casinos and airports. Once you set foot inside, the same principle as casinos and airports. Once you set foot inside, the rules of conventional society no longer apply. You see, ballparks are in anything-goes, taxpayer-subsidized utopia, where humans are free, nay, encouraged, to drop the pointless charade of civility

and embrace our true nature as God's grossest weirdos. Laughter. And really, isn't that all we want? A minute to just friggin' be. To not have to contemplate the gastrointestinal consequences of eating 12 hot dogs. To not have to ponder what drinking seven beers in the middle of the afternoon says about your life choices.

To not worry whether letting your kid chase a 64-ounce slushie with a whole thing of Sour Patch Kids is going to give him type 2 diabetes. Because you see, folks, heart disease and diabetes don't exist at the ballpark. Those are outside problems. Like your mortgage or your secret second family or the many pending lawsuits against you.

And guess what? Outside problems are as strictly prohibited from entering a ballpark as you are from rebroadcasting the game you're watching without the express written consent of Major League Baseball. Alright. Yeah. Patrick, do so. Are you kidding me? That was great. Thank you, Patrick. Now, here to help ballpark supporters learn the unforced errors of their ways,

let's hear from Simon Rakhov. Nothing beats a day at the ballpark? Nothing? I didn't realize I was debating a virgin. I mean, no judgment. Just surprising. Look, I can only base my total reputation of that argument on my personal experience attending a game last summer.

For a small fortune, I was allowed to park so far away from the entrance that it was a shorter walk home than to the ballpark. When I got to the gate, after a lineup so long I assumed they were giving away free ponies at the front. They put me through a bag inspection and metal detector. Why so much security? Then I realized they were mostly looking for food and drinks. After all, if I brought my own, I wouldn't buy a hot dog for the cost of a lobster dinner

in the real world. A bottle of water was nine bucks. What is it? Elvis Sweat. For the cost of one tall can of beer at the ballgame, I could buy enough beer at the store that I would die if I drank it all. After a brief call with the bank to increase my visa limit so I could buy snacks, I finally made it to my seat. A fan of the visiting American team had the seat next to me.

Needless to say, his fast food-fed bulk was not constrained by his small assigned area. His extra mass oozed over and under the armrest into my side so he could both enjoy his sweat. I'm sorry, but spending that much money for an experience like that is like taking a number to be beaten. No thanks. Thank you, Steve. Yeah. Simon Rakov. Getting some nice support here. I love that. You talked about sitting beside a large American trying to encroach on something that wasn't his own territory, which I think is a very strong play for the times.

Nice job, Simon. All right. It's dark small, Steve. It's time now for the bear knuckle round. Or rather, I guess, the bear knuckle ball round. Your groans are energy to me. We're debating a day at the ballpark, so let me be ballpark Frank. I'm going to paint you a picture. You better

both be Hank Aaron to expose each other's baseless argument. These are all baseball terms which that's my fault, that's my fault. Trust me, if you get the rest of these, that will amaze us. And, Patrick's left, he'll be back, don't you worry, he'll come back. We have a runner. And, listen, guys, in all seriousness, if you're not joking hard enough, simply Joe Carter. Oh!

Time to knock it out of the park, starting now. Let's go. I will give you this. It's an educational experience to go to the ballpark. I mean, my daughter, she hardly knew any swear words before we went. And honestly, when we got home, she was like... In fact, I learned a few. That's interesting, though, because I guess it's cultural,

because I'm from Quebec, and so I actually take my kids to the ballpark to teach everyone else new swear words. You raised them right. Yeah. In fairness, I know my friend Simon here, his reluctance to go to the ballpark, I think, is rooted in the fact that you've been in a deep and loving, committed relationship with the Astivets in your couch, yeah?

Yeah, essentially, yeah. And let me tell you, three to six hours on those stadium-hard seats is a chiropractor's dream. I see that. No, I mean, here's the thing for me about ball game, is the time waste. It's a day. I mean, I call my friends up.

I'm like, let's do something. They're like, I want to watch a game. I'm like, oh, why? See, I have to know who wins. You know, they'll tell you tomorrow. It's not a secret. It's not like people are going to go, he didn't watch. This is why I am not friends with any interesting people.

All right, that's the Veridoc around everybody. We're debating a day at the ballpark here on the debaters and it's time now for the firing line. In my hand I have a list of questions on a day at the ballpark brought to you by Hungry Empires. Hungry Empires, they always clean their plate. Yep. Finish this quote from baseball manager, Leo DeRosier. Baseball is like church. Simon. You can't wait for it to be over. That's good.

Two and a half points. Patrick, do you still? You leave with significantly less money than you walked in with. That's a good answer too. That's a good answer. Two and a half for that. That's a good answer too. That's a good answer. Two and a half for that. That's a tie. No, Leo said, many attend, but few understand. We also would have accepted, no one really

appreciates the sacrifice plays. ScrappersBaseball.com says three things that make the live ballpark experience special are the atmosphere, the tradition, and what else? Patrick. A two-hour break from online gambling commercials. That's a good point. Yep, listen to that. Two points. Nice job.

ScrappersBaseball.com says, three things make the live ballpark experience special. The atmosphere, the tradition, and the social experience. Oh, we're traveling with that person. That's going to be our audience sound for the rest of this season. We're traveling with that person. That's gonna be our audience sound for the rest of this season. Mwahaha!

Parentingtogo.ca says, if you want to take the kids to a Blue Jays game, the best thing to do is what? Simon. Give your head a shake. Ha ha ha. Ha ha ha. Ha ha ha.

Ha ha ha. No, it says you should take them on Junior J's Sundays where the kids can run the bases after the games. That sounds fun. Or you could watch the game in your backyard, let them run around, save yourself $13,000. Because it doesn't take long enough to get home after a game already. ESPN says some of the more unique ballpark foods include the LA Dodgers deep-fried peanut butter and Nutella sandwich, the New York Mets rainbow cookie egg roll, and what offering

from the Texas Rangers? Simon. Bull testicles on a stick. Actually the stick is the bull's least favorite part. Incorrect but well thought out. Patrick? The offering from the Texas Rangers is deep fried assault rifles. The audience has given you one and a half. That is what you call nervous applause in the business.

The Texas Rangers offer meatball garlic knot sliders. That's got to be just as delicious as it sounds. That is the firing line, everybody. It is almost that magical time when our Danforth Music Hall audience votes, but first here again to tell us why spending a day at the ballpark drives him absolutely batty, let's hear again from Simon Rakhov. A day at the ballpark is a day. Baseball has no time limit.

It goes on and on forever. And it's not an action-packed three hours. There's a show on the sports channel called Blue Jays in 30. They show the entire baseball game in 23 minutes. And it's not like a hockey recap, which is just highlights. They show every single at game in 23 minutes. And it's not like a hockey recap, which is just highlights. They show every single at bat, every pitch, every catch, every stolen base, with slow-motion replays.

Watching baseball live is akin to a movie where they include the Leeds' eight hours of sleep. So next time you go to the ballpark and a guy out front is yelling, who needs dickheads? Just say to yourself, you know what? He's right. Yeah. Woo. Simon Rakoff. Buddy, that was strong. I would call that argument a home run, but I don't want you to be angry. You're happy.

Now, here to proclaim that people who haven't enjoyed a day at the ballpark are completely off base as far as he's concerned. Let's hear again from Patrick Dussel. (*audience cheering and applauding*) Folks, going to the ballpark is such a uniquely joyful experience that they literally wrote a whole song about it. Now there's a reason there's no take me out to my wedding or take me out to the birth

of my child. You can't get married dressed as a hot dog and you can't aggressively heckle the doctor Because real life is racist against weirdos. But the ballpark celebrates them. And I don't know if you've noticed this, but today's society is 98% aggressively weird. And that is why nothing ever has and nothing ever will beat a day at the ballpark. Yeah, Patrick, do so. This is going to be tough. This is going to be tough, audience. I think it's been a good argument on both sides, and that one really brought me back to the birth of my children.

Thanks, Patrick. All right, it is time to vote Dan forth by applause. Who thought that Pat was a natural as he swung for defense in defense of a day at the ballpark? Patrick Dussault. A lot of love. A lot of love there for Patrick. All right. All right. Yeah. And who agreed with Simon that if you spend the day at the ballpark, MLB stands for Must Love Boredom, Simon Rakhov. Whoo! That is close. That is very close. It is too close to call. I think it was a well-fought battle. It's a tie. It's inconclusive. Big hand for Simon Rakhov and Patrick Guiseau, everybody! -♪

-♪ -♪ -♪ -♪ Hey, debaters fans. Want to be a part of the debating action? Then come to a live taping. For details on upcoming tour dates,

visit our website at cbc.ca slash the debaters. -♪ I'm Sarah Trelevin, and for over a year I've been working on one of the most complex stories I've ever covered. There was somebody out there who was faking pregnancies. I started like warning everybody. Every doula that I know. It was fake. No pregnancy.

And the deeper I dig, the more questions I unearth. How long has she been doing this? What does she have to gain from this? From CBC and the BBC World Service, The Con, Caitlin's baby. It's a long story. Settle in. Available now. Hey, Toronto, let me ask you something.

Are you ready to meet your next pair of debaters? That sounds like a yes. This comic once said Hawaii was located in an ocean, but she was asked to be more Pacific. It's Toronto's own Isabel Zotin. Hi Isabel. Thank you, Smith. And this comic thought he saw his lost twin but figured out his mistake upon reflection. It's Ottawa's Don Kelly! One of our very favourites. Hello, Don. Welcome back.

Always great to be back, Steve. Always love seeing you in the gang. Debaters, your topic is one that I hope will move right along. Toronto Commuting. Listen to that! Is it the worst? The crowd has pretty much already decided. But we are legally contracted to do this debate. In December of 2024, a study by the Journey Planner app, Move It, found that Toronto has

the second worst commute in all of Canada and the US. True story, second worst commute time. Even more shocking, first, third and fourth place were also Toronto. To get here tonight, I took a variety of Toronto commuting methods. First, I rode the subway, TTC. Then when I got off at Broadview Station, I took a taxi. I just, I like to support local. I took a taxi. It's about two blocks to the Danforth Theatre.

And then I got a local delivery person to piggyback me up to the Danforth Theatre. And then I got a local delivery person to piggyback me up to the stage. And I just want to say thanks again for that ride, Brenda. Time now for a strong debate that will take a lot of street smarts. So whereas it has far too much congestion, unreliable public transit and never ending construction, be it resolved, Toronto is the worst city in Canada to commute in. Isabelle, you're arguing for this, please. You have two minutes starting now.

Isabelle Zotten. Now, I'm an expert at terrible commutes. I live in Toronto and I have driven in Montreal. Right? But even in Montreal, when you abandon your car by the side of an ever-widening sinkhole, you can still hop on the metro and get to your destination, whereas in Toronto, we're currently collecting funds

for a poor, hungry child who has been stuck on a shuttle bus for the past 17 hours. In these uncertain times with political instability and climate change, we wonder what will be left for our children. It's comforting to have some certainty to know that our grandchildren will inherit the Metrolinx construction. Laughter Applause

Applause Applause And for those not from Toronto and unfamiliar with our transit lore, Metrolinx is a transportation agency run by four evil pigeons in a trench coat. Laughter

Whose goal is to ensure humans never reach their destination. In August of 2024, a raccoon boarded a subway train. It was a historic event for animal kind. He got off after only two stops. He opted to waddle the rest of the way. Since this event, no raccoons have ever returned to the TTC. He warned them against it. When asked for comment, the raccoon stated,

take it from someone who eats out of a dumpster. That commute was garbage. Laughter and applause But, Isabel, you say, you can drive. Yes, you can. And when it rains, watch your car sink into the beautiful brown waters of the DVP. Toronto is known as the Venice of North America. Not for its architecture or food,

but because sometimes you can swim home faster than you can drive. Now, I believe in the power of positive manifesting, but even more so, I believe in the power of negative manifesting. Torontonians complain per capita more about their commutes than anyone else in the world They manifest more dark energy Than any other city the 401 is a karmic death trap Toronto's commute is the worst because our congestion isn't just bad. It's also cursed

Thank you Yeah Isabel Zotten coming out swinging. Now, here to tell us why Isabelle's Toronto traffic tantrums take a tremendous toll on all of us, let's hear from Don Kelly. Toronto, how do I win this debate? Kelly. Thank you. Toronto, how do I win this debate? Most of you are from Toronto and no one in any city anywhere has ever said, oh, our drivers are really good. The commute is great. So, as I said to my wife on our wedding night,

I am in an awkward position. Now, Toronto, we don't like to say this because we actually say some nice things about you, but here's a secret. Yes, we think Toronto drivers are crazy, but you know where you're going. Toronto drivers are like the serial killer in the movie Seven. Insane, dangerous, but exceptional planning and execution. And hey, you have a very walkable city. You can see the Jays, Raptors, and Leafs all lose within five city blocks.

And you have charming public transit. I was just telling that to the guy trying to stab me on the streetcar today. You may not have a great commute, but the worst in Canada? I'm from Ottawa. Terrible. We have the worst traffic jam in the history of Canada. The Freedom Convoy. You ever get stuck behind a bouncy castle? For three weeks?

And you ever drive in Montreal? Let me put that another way. You ever play Grand Theft Auto? With respect, Ismael, your arguments are like Ottawa's inefficient, unreliable light rail transit system off the track. Thank you. All right. All right.

Don Kelly. We got ourselves a debate, everybody. It's closed. All right, debaters. It is time now for the Bare Knuckle Round. We're debating whether Toronto is the worst city to commute in. So be sure to Gardner Express way more than your opponent. As you both try to off-ramp it up and gridlock horns to pot holes in each other's arguments.

Don't be pedestrian. Stay in your bike lane and put the pedals to show your metal. TTC what I did there. Debaters, start your engines now. Thank you. That's one point for me. All right, Isabel. I said crazy, but they know where they're going.

True story. I was going on the 401 through Toronto one time. I'm doing a 130 just to keep pace with traffic. Someone whips by me. Got to be at least 160, pulling a boat. That's one eager cottager. He knew he had to get off the highway

and onto the high seas. There you go. Don, let me tell you a fact that'll make you afraid to drive home tonight. Did you know that Toronto per capita has more BMWs than anywhere else in the world? More BMW drivers than anywhere else in the world? Now that's a fact I made up, but everyone accepted it unquestioningly. Makes sense.

I do know, I come here a lot. I love this city, believe it or not, but I agree there's a crazy amount of traffic, usually in front of the Leafs net. Am I right, people? Somehow hacking on the Leafs is pandering in Toronto. I don't know how that works, but I love it. I love you guys. It is a very crowded city.

In fact, it's so crowded, did you know, this is a real fact, that the population of Toronto has doubled in the past ten years? But our subways have gotten smaller. We lost the Scarborough RT, and now we only have two and a half subway lines, all right? Toronto's population is like the Hulk, and our subway is like the Hulk's pants. Hanging on by a thread. They're hanging on by a thread.

That's good. I'm going to give an official point. I don't usually do that. Okay, so I don't have a joke, but I gotta know, what is half a subway line? That's the purple line. Yeah. Okay. It absolutely does not count as a full subway line.

We don't even know if Basarian Station is real. No one has been there to confirm. All right, well, half a line beats no line. I talked about how bad our LRT, our light rail transit system is. I remember, you know, I'm Indigenous. When we protest, we love blocking rail lines. One hot summer, I thought, I'm going to warrior up. I went out, I blocked the LRT.

No one noticed. Okay. Alright. That's the Bare Knuckle round, everybody. We're debating whether Toronto is the worst commute city and Don is really trying to make Ottawa suck more here. And I appreciate the strategy, Don. It is time now for the firing line.

In my hand I have a list of questions on Toronto's commuting brought to you by Enraged Dri who hate bike paths, aka the cycle path psychopaths. Premier Doug Ford's proposed solution for Toronto commuting problems is to build the world's largest what? Dawn. Boondoggle. Look at that.

The audience. See, not every audience would even know what that means. I love CBC. Two points. Isabel? The world's largest slip and slide, but instead of water, with beer. Oh, so good thinking. That's good thinking.

I got to give two for that one, too. Yeah, no, he wants to build the world's largest tunnel expressway. Boo! I know. Entrepreneur.com's list of 21 productive things to do on your commute includes listening to podcasts or music, practicing mindfulness, and what else? Isabel. Kegels. Yeah. There are some kids with questions. Ask your mom. These women all have very strong pelvic floors.

The actual answer is talking to yourself. Yep. Isabel's answer was way better. I'm giving three points for that. Finish this popular meme about commuting in Toronto. Toronto is an hour away from where? Isabel. Total societal collapse. Good.

Good answer. I'm going to give three points for that one. Don Kelly. Toronto is an hour away from Uxbridge, Ontario, A.K.A. Total Societal Collapse. Oh, big shout out to Uxbridge. This popular meme, Toronto is an hour away from Toronto. Some of you know it, and that is the F firing line, everybody. We got a good one going on here at the Danforth Music Hall, and it is almost time for our audience to vote.

But first, here to drive home his point that Toronto's commute is a Kamoot Point, let's hear from Don Kelly. Toronto is the worst commute ever. I'm First Nations. My people were forcibly marched from our traditional homelands to the middle of nowhere in the far north. That's a bad commute. Because humans have been commuting for centuries. The first use of the word commute was in 1600 by a guy on Ottawa's light rail transit system who said, who said, I should be there in five minutes. And he still hasn't arrived so Toronto at least you're moving in Toronto you have rush hour Ottawa has

what's the rush hour Isabel final words can I get a ride back to the hotel? I hear traffic's moving well. Thank you. All right. Don Kelly, once again throwing his home city under the bus that apparently moved slowly. Thank you, Don. Now, here to remind us again why commuting in Toronto forces her to traffic in road rage, let's hear again from Isabel Zotten. Now I have autism and I was tasked with researching train systems.

I know what I'm talking about. I had to cut three hours worth of subway fax. Listen, the worst commutes worldwide, according to a 2024 travel index, are London, New York, Paris, Toronto. When stuck in traffic, would you rather gaze at Times Square, London Bridge, the Louvre, or a frozen Cybertruck blocking your streetcar. LAUGHTER

APPLAUSE It's not a nice view. Vancouver, drive for an hour. You're in a coastal rainforest. Calgary, you drive for an hour. You're in the mountains. Toronto, you drive for an hour. You're in a different part of Toronto.

Now what kind of a world is this? Where best case scenario, you've made it to Oshawa. Not one I want to live in. Now in closing audience, I would say enjoy your drive home, but we all know you won't. Thank you very much. Isabelle Zotten, ladies and gentlemen, getting the Torontonians and the surrounding area to celebrate things that they do not like. That's quite a power. All right, it is time to vote, audience.

By applause, how many have enjoyed listening to Isabelle's jams on Toronto's traffic jams? Isabelle Zotten. That's a lot of love. That's a lot of love right there. All right. And how many of you were easily transported by the high road that Don took on the lowdown

against Toronto being the worst commute, Don Kelly? It's close. It's close. It was well fought. But I've got to give this one to Isabel Zotten. Toronto, traffic's the worst. Big hand for Isabel Zotten and Don Kelly, everybody. Well, that's all for this week.

I'm Steve Patterson saying Toronto really is at its best when a lot of its drivers are out of town. I'll argue with you again soon Canada, goodnight! The Debaters is created by Richard Side. This week's episode was produced by Nicole Callender, Chloe Edbrook, Dean Jenkinson and Graham Clark, with continuity by Graham Clark, Diana Francis and Gary Jones. Technical production by James Perella and Todd Reimer. Story editing by Gary Jones.

With special thanks to Katie Ellen Humphrey's Emily Ferrier and David Pride. Executive producer of CBC Radio Comedy is Lee Pitts. And thanks to everyone at the Danforth Music Hall in Toronto. is Lee Pitts. And thanks to everyone at the Danforth Music Hall in Toronto.