The Debaters - Hawkins Cheezies & Conspiracy Theories

Episode Date: January 30, 2025

Are Ontario’s own Hawkins Cheezies king of the chip aisle? It’s crunch time when Deborah Kimmett and Sean Cullen debate this delight. Then, should conspiracy theories be indulged? Don’t miss Nathan Macintosh and Chris Locke’s illuminati-ing takes on this topic.

Every language is a note in the symphony of our heritage. Together, they create a harmony that cannot be silenced. Discover your voice on the new APTN Languages TV channel. This is a CBC Podcast. Hey Canada! Time to get Dow to business! From Ottawa home of Dow's Lake. It's the Debater!

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Welcome back to The Debaters. We are back here in Ottawa. You hear that, Canada? Ottawa is a city with many flourishing businesses. One such institution is Kettleman's Bagel Company. Yeah, Kettleman's! This is a shop that is open 24 hours a day, seven days a week. In fact, they don't even have locks on the door because they save the locks for their bagels. This is big news in Ottawa, so much so that an Ottawa journalist once stayed there for

24 hours and concluded that despite obnoxious drunken customers, Kettleman's was a good place to go, which is a testament to both Kettleman's and the lack of late night entertainment here in Ottawa. Now, let's see which of our debaters will emerge as the cream cheese of the crop, shall we? This comic just got a leaf blower in preparation for her autumn years. It's Deborah Kimmett! Deborah Kimmett, one of our absolute favorites,

making her way across the stage to my right. Hi Deb. Hi. And this comic believes that the Red Cross asking Keith Richards to donate is like trying to get blood from a stone. It's Sean Cullen, the one and only. Back here at the Centerpoint.

Your topic is one that we take seriously, though some might find it a little bit cheesy. Hawkins Cheezys. Are they the best snack in the chip aisle? For our American neighbors wondering what a Hawkins Cheeesy tastes like, keep wondering, suckers! Because they're only available in Canada, like Universal Healthcare, which you will probably

need if you eat too many Cheesies. Hawkins Cheesies is a family business operating out of a small plant in Belleville, Ontario. Yep. They don't advertise because they like their production pace as is. And now they're probably pretty cheesed off that we're telling listeners that they exist. But hey, Hawkins, I'm just trying to help you guys make a little more cheddar. So now it's time for a debate that we hope will have you seeing orange. Whereas it's an iconic Canadian snack that's renowned for its vibrant packaging, unique texture and delicious taste.

Be it resolved that Hawkins Cheezies are king of the chip aisle. Deb, you are arguing for this please. You have two minutes starting now. Deborah Kimmett. One time I got my computer back after it had crashed and the tech guy said he found orange fuzz inside the console and he said, Deborah, it's like you were eating Cheetos.

And I said, no, sir. you were eating Cheetos." And I said, No, sir. I was eating Hawkins Cheezies. And then he bowed to me and said, I forgive you. And that's how great the snack Hawkins Cheezies is. You don't get that respect when you jam up your computer with a pork rind. I grew up in Napa and E right next to Belleville,

and every morning I'd go out of my house and there was an orange haze. Sometimes I'd cough, and there's orange puffs that come out of my breath. I was a little country pumpkin and I only knew those cheap dollar store orange puffs that melted in your mouth like a packing peanut. Then I was 16 going on 17 and a boy asked me to put a crunchy, nubby orange stick in my mouth. He said, "'Taste this Hawkins cheesy.'"

At least that's what I think he said. Instantly, I quit smoking candy cigarettes, Instantly, I quit smoking candy cigarettes, and I became a Hawkins cheesy cheerleader. Soon, I had the fingers of a lifelong smoker. Every time we made out, he had an orange mustache. Some women stalk their boyfriends. I stained them. Never did I go back to the flaccid Lay's chip. Some women stalk their boyfriends, I stain them. (*Laughter*)

Never did I go back to the flaccid Lay's chip. (*Laughter*) Or that aggressive Ripple chip that slices open the top of your mouth. (*Laughter*) Any ding-dong can bring hummus and gluten-free crackers to a potluck. (*Laughter*) and gluten-free crackers to a potluck. But you try lacing your casserole with some Hawkins cheese dust, everybody's trippin'. And with that said, in the middle of the word cheesy, you get a 30-point score and scrabble.

Thank you. Yeah. Deborah Kimmett. Deborah Kimmett, ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of Hawkins Cheezies, and I did not think it was going to sound that seductive. Now, here to chip away at Hawkins Cheezys' brittle ego. It's our own anti-cheesy champion, Sean Cullen. Thank you. Hawkins Cheezys.

Sure, we all ate packing peanuts as a child. Who didn't? Deb did, too. Shows you what kind of taste she has. In snacks. But I'll tell you what. You said that Hawkins Cheezies is the king of the Chimp Isle. King?

King? While I draw breath, I shall bow to no king. I believe all snacks are created equal. My friends, for generations we have fought to defend our freedom. Shall we submit now to a king? Shall we bend the knee to a delicious salty orange creepy slack?

Shall we spit on the memory of our noble forebears by cow-toweling to the tyranny of crunch? I will not. I acknowledge no orange neon god. To recognize one snack above all others is a violation of God's plan, a blasphemy of nature. Each of us must be free to choose from the myriad delights spread out before us on the snack tables. Be they potato chips, divinely salted,

or laced with a glorious tang of vinaigre. Pretzels, ho! Those brown, crispy twigs studded with nuggets of divine saltiness. Tortilla chips, lascivious curling to scoop the salsa. Oh, you naughty, naughty corn. No king of snacks. No monarch of munch.

No pharaoh of finger fools! Because I and you are free! That's it. Laughter and applause Sean... Sean Cullen! It's time now for the Bare Knuckle Round! We're debating Hawkins Cheezys ruling the chip aisle, so since a journey of a thousand smiles begins with a Pringle step,

let's go Dorito to toe and make a corn meal out of it, because your opponent is Nacho Friend. So let's see who ruffles the most feathers and emerges Miss Vickie-torius starting now. Wait. Let's dip into this. Yes. My liege.

Yeah? Stratford called and they'd like their monologue back. Hey, Shakespeare did not mention Hawkins Cheezies once in his canon. Another reason not to trust Hawkins Cheezies. They're confusing you. They're getting in your mind. Who knows what that dust has got in it? Some kind of hallucinogenic freak drug. Let's look at it this way.

What? The stained orange hand could be so great if we would all embrace the cheesy. They'd be great for crossing guards. They wouldn't need to wear a vest. They could just put their hand up and glow in the dark. You know what they'd be great for? What?

Chernobyl security guards. Yes. I think the chips that they come out with, like the pulled pork chip, the roast chicken crisp, the candy floss skittle, the turkey stuffing chip, nothing can compare to this crunchy bag of goodness that has no preservatives. It looks, it looks, that bag looks like an environmentally unfriendly barbershop quartet

member. All right, that's the bear nuckle round everybody. It's time now for the firing line. In my hand I have a list of questions on Hawkins Cheezies brought to you by the new cheese scent for every room in the house, Hawkins Febreezies. Mmm. Complete the Hawkins slogan from their website.

Snacking to what? John Cullen. Snacking to make you afraid of your own mouth. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha about. Aw. Aw. Backing to smile about this snack of ours. Hawkins says the machine that extrudes the cornmeal to make their cheesies was originally designed to do what? Dev? Fracking. Let me see if I can get better at this.

I'll give you two points for that. Sure. Sean Cullen? Taunt whales. From Belleville, Ontario. Well, it was actually a crazy story, and I won't get into it. The machine that extrudes the cornmeal to make their Cheezies was originally designed to make cattle feed.

Science Creative Quarterly says their tests prove conclusively that Hawkins' Cheezies are superior to Cheetos in what way? Deb? Lighting a blue angel. That's not that far off, actually. Sean Cullen? Being used to scrub grout. Get that black mold off of there with that mmm, and it dissolves and you can just wash it away. Good guess, but no. They make better campfire starters.

That's not a good sign for your snack. That's the firing line, everybody. It is just about that magical time when our Centerpoint Theatre audience places their votes. But first, here again to remind us why Hawkins Cheezies make him want to hawk. Let's hear again from Sean Cullen. Fine. Hawkins Cheezies are just fine. It's a fine snack. I've enjoyed them and I admit it freely. It's a fine snack. It is not the finest snack! I like a cheese-filled combo! Yeah!

I'm not above sporting an orange indicator. What I will not accept is one snack to rule them all. One snack to bind them. One snack to break them all and in a dip bowl, bind them. Two Hawkins Cheezys as king if you must. But when future generations point at you with their stained orange fingers asking, Why mama? Why?

Then tell them because you sold your liberty for a Hawkins cheesy. Thank you. Good shot. Sean Cullen, now here to tell us why, Lordy, Lordy, it's easy to worship Hawkins when they bring her that much closer to cheeses. One more time from Deborah Kimmett. A snack is judged by the company it keeps. Hawkins' cheeses were a favorite among the most elite people, like Stephen Hawkins. You ever heard of the Sadie Hawkins dance?

Sadie asked a boy to dance and then she passed off Cheezy between her lips while dancing to Stairway to Heaven. The great, late Ronnie Hawkins didn't use a guitar pick. He used a Hawkins Cheesy! You can't pick a guitar with a little Debbie, can you? Thank you. Deborah Kimmett, on behalf of Hawkins Cheezies, Sean Cullen is against. Our fact checkers are not available. Ottawa, it's time for you to vote by applause.

Who felt that listening to Deb stand there hailing Hawkins was truly a guilty pleasure? Deborah Kimmett. That's nice. That's nice support for Deb. And how many of you felt that Sean ended Hawkins Cheezy's reign of terror over the Chip Isle by finally dethroning the king, Sean Cullen? Alright, the audience has spoken. The winner is Sean Cullen. Alright, the audience has spoken.

The winner is Sean Cullen. Hawkins Cheezys are not the be-all and all. Big hand for Sean Cullen and Deborah Kimmett, everybody. You're listening to CBC Radio's The Debaters. Want access to bonus content and information on upcoming tour dates? Then be sure to follow us on Instagram at atcbcdebaters. Every language is a note In the symphony of our heritage

Together they create a harmony that cannot be silenced. Discover your voice on the new APTN Languages TV channel. Canadians have plenty of reasons to pay attention right now, but not everyone has a daily news habit. So if you're hoping to build one, we're here to make that really easy. I'm Marcia Young. I'm John Northcott and we host World Report. Give us 10 minutes every morning and we'll give you the biggest stories happening in Canada and around the globe. Whether you're tracking wildfires, leadership races or threats to our national sovereignty

will help you understand what's going on. You can find and follow World Report wherever you get your podcasts. Ottawa, are you ready to meet your next pair of debaters? Then let's do it. This comic is more Mac than he is PC. It's Nathan McIntosh! Come on out, my friend! There he is, taking his place at the podium to my right.

And this comic tested the durability of his cooking pot and found it to be crock solid. It's Toronto's Chris Locke! Come on out, Chris. One of my neighbours in Toronto. All right, debaters, your topic is one that you'll want to dig deep into. Conspiracy theories, should they be indulged? Ottawa holds the seat of power in Canada, so many conspiracies involve your city. I'll tell you which theory has no base in reality, that the LRT line is going to be finished in your lifetime.

Now they say when investigating these types of theories that you should follow the money, and in this case of the LRT it wouldn't take that long, you point at your pocket and then a garbage can. And still that money is moving faster than anyone waiting for the LRT to be finished. It's time for a debate that is going to blow the lid off of this. So whereas they can increase suspicion, decrease trust in authority, and lead to dangerous behavior, be it resolved, conspiracy theories should not be indulged. Nathan, you are arguing for this. You have two minutes, please. Nathan McIntosh. Yeah. Well, thank you for having me on the debaters. At least I think it's the debaters.

This could be anything, really. This could be the nightly news. Who knows? It's hard to say. Is this actually Steve Patterson? I don't know. I haven't done my own research yet and been inside of them. This is what conspiracy theorists love to say,

I'm going to do my own research. Let's get serious. Nobody's researching. You're not a scholar. You're not going down to the library to look through textbooks. You're sitting on your couch covered in butter, going, hey, Siri, is Bigfoot real?

And look, if you ask the internet, if there's a giant wood ape, of course there's a man living on a boat, living off of Hungry Man dinners, who's going to say yes. But how can this be? How at this point have we not seen a forest gorilla? We have satellite images of everything.

No tall tree chimps. Is Bigfoot this good at stealth? People have tried to find out who should be the next James Bond. Hire Bigfoot! Yeah! Whoo! Ha-ha-ha.

Then the conspiracy people will say, well, how do you know, man? Were you there? You're right. I wasn't there. Maybe the Titanic didn't sink. Maybe Jurassic Park was a documentary. Maybe the band Flock of Seagulls were actually a group of seagulls. Conspiracy theory people love to just say,

well, I'm just asking questions. You have to question everything. Everything! Not just the fun conspiracies like, is Elvis still alive? Did America really go to the moon? Was Stephen Harper actually just an Atlantic salmon in a human suit?

No. They want to question everything. Is water turning frogs straight? Why does Canada's Wonderland have rides but not Alice's Wonderland? Here's the biggest conspiracy theory out there, that there are no stupid questions. Ha! Thank you. Nathan McIntosh on why conspiracy theories should not be indulged. Now, here to go deep and state his theories, it's Chris Locke! ["The Big Bang"]

["The Big Bang"] Hold on. Let me put my debating cap on. Okay. Chris is a... Oh, Chris has got a... Chris has got a tin foil hat. He looks like this is not the first time he's worn it.

I don't trust these guys. Okay, so I wasn't even going to come here today because they are monitoring my every move. Don't believe me? How do you explain all these microphones? Look, I had scrambled eggs this morning and thought they tasted funny, so I crack open the rest of the eggs on the counter there and I spread them all out. I'm pretty sure I found a little gooey microscopic camera in the yolk.

Now I have it on good authority from a sub sub sub sub sub sub sub sub sub sub Reddit that I follow. That they can make tiny little microscopic cameras that you ingest and they travel upwards in your bloodstream and into your actual brain to film your thoughts. Yeah, I agree with you. It's not funny. It's genuinely not. It's infuriating, in fact. Conspiracy theories are important

because they keep citizens on their toes. If it wasn't for conspiracy theories, we wouldn't know King Charles is a shapeshifter. If it wasn't for conspiracy theories, we wouldn't know that Trudeau was actually Fidel Castro's son and a shapeshifter. Listen, you think we landed on the moon? There isn't even a moon. Where else can you learn valuable information like that

than from a crackpot conspiracy nut, huh? Thank you very much. Chris Locke, Chris Locke with some deep state theories about conspiracy theories. All right, debaters, it's time now for the Bare Knuckle Round. We're debating conspiracy theories. So let's make sure your arguments are quite illuminating. Your jokes are moon landing, and that you

separate facts from fiction. Now, since Roswell that ends well, wait for me to give you your cue anon. And begin in 5G, 4chan, 3, 2, 1, world government, go! This is one of my problems with conspiracy theory, people. No! Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! This is one of my problems with conspiracy theory people. You ask a lot of questions, but not important ones, you know? You're like, why are there dog parks, but there are no cat parks?

Here's a more important question. How are you covered in cat hair, but you don't own a cat? I was hiding. From what, the upstairs? Leave the basement! All right. Nathan, you said we should have seen a forest gorilla by now.

Yes. Well, I have seen a forest gorilla, okay? You just haven't seen him because he's staying with my uncle. Where? Oh, would you like to know? Ah. Can't even answer that simple question, huh? Your big old tall tinfoil hat. I find this hard. You're dressed like a Hershey's kid.

Yeah. Why are you asking all these questions anyways? What are you so curious about, huh? Who do you work for? Common decency, man. That's who I work for. And that lady up there. Anyone who says yay in this crowd is a government stooge.

And that's the bare knuckle round. Anyone who says yay in this crowd is a government stooge. Yay! And that's the bare knuckle round. Oh, perfect. As if on cue. Yes. That was great. Thank you. You think that's an insult here? LAUGHTER

APPLAUSE Government stooge with a pension there Canadian entertainer. Oh, this is fun and we're going to move on to the firing line. In my hand I have a list of questions on conspiracy theories brought to you by Elken Aluminum. The number one name in foil hat haberdasher. Elken. According to abacus data, people's willingness to believe conspiracy theories over conventional narratives can have what effect? Nathan? Wearing tinfoil hat.

(?) Pretty good answer. Chris Locke? Yeah, tinfoil hat. (?) Still wrong, always worth a try. People's willingness to believe conspiracy theories over conventional narratives can undermine society's ability to build conspiracy theories over conventional narratives can

undermine society's ability to build consensus and make progress. A 2022 survey found that 13% of Canadians believe Bill Gates definitely or probably does what? Chris? Eats babies to gain their power. Laughter Not what I have here. Before I even answer, can I just say,

babies don't have any power. Laughter That's spoken like someone who doesn't have a baby in her. Laughter Applause Sorry buddy, do you have an answer? No no no, you might as well win the debate. Thirteen percent of Canadians believe Bill Gates uses microchips to track people and control their behavior.

Did he make you say that baby line? He did. He did. uses microchips to track people and control their behavior. Did he make you say that baby line? He did, he did. He did. According to CBS, some of the top debunked conspiracy theories surrounding the 2020 US election are, voting machines deleted votes for Trump, mail-in voting was rife with fraud, and what else? Chris.

Trump was born in Kenya. That's a deep cut. Nathan. And that he's in good physical shape. They believe that there were thousands of votes from dead people. This lady believes it hard. You hear that?

Yeah. A September 2024 article in Psychology Today says you can help protect yourself from conspiracy theories if you possess what? Nathan? The ability to close your laptop. That's a good answer. That's a solid answer. One official point there. Chris Locke. A restraining order. You can protect yourself from conspiracy theories if you possess intellectual Intellectual humility. What the hell? Pfft. OK. That's the firing line.

We're going to stop there. It's just about that magical time when our Centerpoint Theatre audience places their votes. But first, here again with a literal book depository of pro-conspiracy theory theories, let's hear again from Chris Locke. Let's hear again from Chris Locke. Applause Why is Nathan down on conspiracy theories?

Follow the money. He is a paid stooge for CBC. He's literally getting paid by big CBC right now. And who do you think really runs CBC? You think it's people in suits down on Front Street in Toronto? Pfft. Ha ha ha ha ha ha. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.

Think again. Pfft. Ha ha ha ha ha. Think again. It's not even people who run CBC. It's AI robots. Wake up sheeple bath. Yeah, Nathan is a spy for the robots who run CBC. And they want to keep us docile and complacent so we can keep buying CBC toques at the gift shop. Don't believe me?

Do your research. Thank you. Chris Locke not only believes in conspiracy, but thinks that CBC is one. Now here to talk about all the debunk of conspiracy theories, let's hear again from the man on the top bunk, Nathan McIntosh. Indulging in conspiracy theories ruins actual careers. They did a study recently with a group of kids. They asked them if they would rather be astronauts or YouTubers.

And you guys know what they said? They said YouTubers. And I side with these kids who wants to be an astronaut today in this society. You know there are people out there that don't believe space is real? They don't think it's a real thing. They walk outside and they look at the sky. They're like, it's mirrors. What's the point? What's the point of becoming an astronaut?

You put on a diaper, fly to space. You almost die. You float around in space. Change your diaper, come back. You almost die again. Then you land on Earth, and you're like, I went to space! And some guy covered in barbecue sauce is like, prove it! There are no YouTube deniers. There's a lot of people out there that think the Earth is flat. You know where they got that idea?

YouTube! And let's just say, for fun, the Earth is flat. Now what? You still got to go to work. What are we doing here? Who cares what it's shaped like? Who cares if it's shaped like a hexagon? You know what's shaped like a rectangle?

An eviction notice. Get a job, man! Thank you. Thank you. Nathan McIntosh. Nathan McIntosh. Nathan McIntosh. It's time to vote. By applause, who thought that Chris did a fantastic inside job on behalf of conspiracy theories? Chris Locke!

And how many of you are ready to vote legitimately for Nathan without fear of the process being rigged? Nathan McIntosh! Alright, the crowd has spoken. Down with conspiracies, the winner is Nathan McIntosh everybody. Big hand for Nathan McIntosh and Chris Locke! Well that's all for this week. I'm Steve Patterson saying if I ever become a senator, I won't rest until all the other

senators are also resting. I'll argue with you again soon, Canada. Good night! The Debaters is created by Richard Side. This week's episode was produced by Nicole Callender, Chloe Edbrook, Dean Jenkinson, and Graham Clark, with continuity by Graham Clark, Diana Francis, and Gary Jones. Technical production by James Forella and Pascal Jobin. Story editing by Gary Jones.

With special thanks to Katie Ellen Humphries, Emily Ferrier, and David Pride. Executive producer of CBC Radio Comedy is Lee Pitts. And thanks to everyone at the Centerpoint Theatre in Ottawa.