The Debaters - Is carpet superior to hardwood? Does nothing beat living in a university town?

Episode Date: April 16, 2026

Prepare to be floored! This week, we’re deciding if carpet conquers hardwood. Jan Caruana’s on a roll when she argues in favour of carpet, but Sean Cullen says wood floors are best, plank you very much! Then, from London, Ontario, home of Western University, we’re asking: does nothing beat living in a university town? Courtney Gilmour's in-tuition says yes, but Rob Bebenek believes it’s better to live far away from any campus.Featuring: Jan Caruana, Sean Cullen, Courtney Gilmour, and Rob Bebenek.

I'm Lisa Yuso, a digital producer at Ideas, the podcast that likes to feed your curiosity. I ask my colleagues why they think you should listen. Ideas can make you the smartest, most interesting guest at your next dinner party in less than 60 minutes. It's got the best of a storytelling podcast with the best of a great lecture. You can pretty much never predict where an episode will take you, but you can count on every episode to shift your perspective. even just a little. Find and follow ideas

wherever you get your podcasts. This is a CBC podcast. Hey Canada, keep up the tempo from Toronto home of the WNBA's Toronto Tempo. It's the debater! Here's where comedians fight with facts and funny in this audience picks the winner. Now here's a host who's anything but temporary.

We are back in my hometown of Toronto. Toronto. If you want to explore this city's architecture. There's a program that takes you inside the most loved buildings here called Doors Open Toronto. That's where some of the city's most interesting institutions let you come in and look around. And if you don't ask too many questions, they'll also let you leave. Previous tours have included the old Don Jail and the old City Hall. So go see those before they too are turned into new shoppers drug martes.

Now it's time to meet two debaters who are more than optimum. This comic made a mess at the salad bar due to a slip of the tongs. It's because news is Jan Caruana. And we're grateful this comic answered his comedic, hire Colin. It's Sean Cullen. Thank you. Debaters, your topic might floor you. Carpet.

Is it superior to? to hardwood? Personally, I grew up on the third option, linoleum. Thank you. Was it stylish? No. Was it comfortable? God, no.

Was it cheap? Hell yes. As was my dad. But it also provided curled up edges as ramps for my hot wheels cars to soar directly into my dad's shins. And for that, oh glorious linoleum, I salute you.

Time now for a debate that's on solid ground. So, whereas it's a flooring material that is softer and comier, absorbs sound better, and is more affordable, be it resolved, carpet is superior to hardwood. Jan, you're arguing for this, please. You have two minutes, starting now, Jan Caruana. Thank you. Thank you.

When was the last time you truly felt happy? Was it standing on a lot of? hardwood floor discussing the merits of early RRSP contributions over a glass of pedestrian Merlot? Or was it in grade six playing a sexually charged game of twister in your friend's carpeted suburban rumpus room? This may not be the choice of estates, but there is no denying it is cozier, more inviting, and warmer than hardwood. Think of the words we use. to describe carpet. Shag.

Pile. Under padding. A hardwood floor you install. You lay carpet. The band Steppenwolf knew it. We would rather be whisked off on a magic hardwood ride. Non returned home from conquering Troy. From your chariot.

But do not set to earth my lord the conquering foot that trod down Troy, servants make haste with crimson tapestries. What would she have said if hardwood existed in 458 BC? Be sure to wipe your sandals, babe. I don't want to scratch the walnut finish. Now, see your favorite megastars walk the cherry wood floor? No, we want to see John Leguizamo strutting down the red carpet promoting Zootopia too. And if Hardwood is style great, then why do rugs exist? Because we need something to muffle the screams of trees murdered in the name of Nate Burkis?

Maybe. Because in our darkest heart of hearts, we knew hardwood is all gloss. Carpet is something you can really sink your feet into. Thank you. Jack, magic carpet ride indeed. Now, yes? Here to lay down a supportive hardwood argument

that contains an edgy grain of truth. Here's Sean Cullen. Wow, I felt like I just took a shalacking. Side note, Clyde Mnestra. Welcome, Zagamemnon back. lays the crimson carpet, which is a metaphor for the later murder of Agamemnon.

So, I'm sure he'd rather not have had that carpet at the time. All right, wood floors are not just a flooring option. There can't exist as a floor of its own. Doesn't hover magically of its own volition? No, it requires the existence of the very surface it is so quick to despise. Carpeting is intrinsically dishonest,

a quivering, cringing, coweringing, to the floor beneath it, like some zombie fungus, infecting an insect, like a woolly succubus, leaching vitality from the hardwood, floor it relies upon for its very existence. Carpidding is a superficial attempt to hide the honest beauty of hardwood floors. Entering a home with hardwood floors glowing from wall to wall, one feels an immediate infusion of health and beauty, a reaffirmation of the deep luster of the natural world.

Entering a carpeted room, one hardly even notices the existence of carpet. It's just there. While providing a false sense of warmth underfoot, carpeting is a ticking time bomb for the homeowner. As soon as the carpet is laid, at great expense, I might add, the countdown begins. The room becomes dated, unfashionable, disgusting.

Stains become a very important. visible record of clumsiness, bad choices, past failures, past crimes, incontinence, and woe. Oh, this carpet is so disgustingly out of date, soaked in urine in tears. You rip it up, and what? What's waiting there? First friend, the hardwood floor. Hardwood is classic, easily clean. It provides a surface that invites sliding around in socks. Laughing at hapless pets as they lose their footing. The try-hard surface. Hardwood.

The ageless and effortless elegance. That's it. These a gentleman, we have got a surprisingly sensual debate on our hands. And it's time now for the bare-knuckle round. We're debating whether. carpet hammers hardwood. So, if it's parquet with you, I physically injured somebody with that.

If it's parquet with you, get your tongue and groove on with every microfiber of your being. Pull the wool over each other's eyes. If you would, please. All right. It's almost time to get going, so, underlay, underlay, ariba, starting now.

I am sprung. You know, Sean, you called carpets a parasitic, I believe. But carpets in hardwood, they share a symbiotic relationship. More like the Ramora fish and the shark. A carpet absorbs all the food and the mites so hardwood can stay sleek and shiny. Without it, hardwood would be busted like jaws at Universal Studios. Listen, without hardwood, there's no symbiotic relationship. It's just a thing lying in a field.

It's like, oh, what's that scrap of thing there? It's just, oh, is that a carpet? Why is it out there? I don't know. I guess it can't find a floor. I mean it's lying there in a field like grass? Nature's carpet? Well, nature's carpet.

I never have to mow my hardwood floor. or fertilize it for that matter, although I do. And then I rinse it clean quite easily. That's the problem. Hardwood is great until you get water on it, and then your floor is more warped than Pierre Pollyev's sense of self.

You're going to get these people defunded. You know that. We've had a good run. Here's the thing. I'm going to buy a carpet and then just get naked and throw myself a car. crossing it, burning my flesh, because I'm a fool.

I never have to worry about getting hardwood floor burns. No, but you would have to worry about getting splinters. Right? And then what do you get? You get splinters, then you get sepsis, and then you die. Hardwood, the silent killer. Yes. Have you ever heard of anyone finding a body in a ditch, wrapped in a hardwood floor.

That's the bare knuckle round, everybody. Okay. We are debating carpet versus hardwood. This is not a true crime show. It is time now for the firing line. In my hand, I have a list of questions on carpet versus hardwood, brought to you by the style of carpet

most favored by Scooby-Doo, Shaggy. The spruce.com says carpet is better than hardwood for bedrooms, citing warmth, a quieter step, and what else? Dan. A softer landing when you fall out of bed thrashing from the nightmare that is the American political landscape? Very specific. I'll give you one and a half points. Sean? I would have thought a bed is probably better than carpet or a hardwood.

More comfortable to sleep on. Is it tough. Am I missing something, Steve? Carpet is better than hardwood for safety, which Jan actually said. So that's an official, yeah, one point. Yeah. Flooring Canada.ca says the choice between carpet and hardwood should be guided by considerations like durability, maintenance, cost, and what else?

Sean. Fear. Not fear, but great delivery. One point. Jan Carwano. How many tongue and groove jokes you can endure from the installation guy? Or from Steve Patterson.

Those are good points. Flooringcadena.cadda.cai, one of my favorite websites. It really has its finger on the pulse. It's really. Where I get all my news. I love their chat. Trumes.

The choice between carpet and hardwood should be considered by considerations like durability, maintenance cost, and comfort. What a damn walk that was for the word comfort. Apartmenttherapy.com says retro-shag carpeting is having a resurgence, which can be attributed to what two current trends? Sean. A lack of taste and stupidity. It's trending.

Also blindness. Incorrect. Jane Caruana. The return of jello and the overturn of Roe versus Wade. It's the 70s all over again. Let's get groovy, baby. The actual answer is texture and nostalgia.

I was close. You were pretty close. I remember that old run. You were pretty close. Finish this lyric from American country singer Johnny Horton's 1957 song, Honky Tonk Hardwood Floor. You Keep a Having Your Fun, You What? Sean Cullen.

You keep a having your fun, you're out eating a bun. You got yourself a gun, and it's kind of fun. On your hardwood floor, There's a lot to do. You can dance all around with a great big shoe. And there you go. It's lots of fun. Make sure you got your Feasor on stun.

I think. It's a long line. The answer we were looking for was, you lucky son of a gun. So close enough, one voice, Sean Collins. In 2025, J.L. Vivash, custom wood floors of Paris, Ontario, won an award from the National Wood Flooring Association. In what category did they win?

Sean. Most desperate for any kind of recognition award. No. Jan? Best butt joint, which I have also won, but in a very different context. I like that little piece of personal trivia, Jen. Thank you. Two points.

No, they won the best in circles, curves, or bent wood? No notes. That's the firing line, everybody. All right. It is almost time for our fantastic Danforth music hall audience to vote. But first, here again to say okey-dokey to hardwood floors. Let's hear from Sean Cullen. Obviously.

Hardwood is superior when it comes to aesthetic and value. What is rarely appreciated? The security factor. How many people have been murdered because their carpeted floors muffled the footsteps of assassins as they crept stealthily

rugs to stab or garot their smug carpet-loving victims. It hardwood floors as they raise their glittering knives. The floor beneath them squeaks. Oh, they alert the helpless victim, allowing them to escape murder. Shoes click on the hardwood, warning the victim and giving them time to cartwheel to freedom. Yes, Cartwheel to freedom. Thank you, Hardwood, for saving countless innocent lives. Carpet, we know what you've done.

Hardwood floors, a necessity. Carpet? An accessory. Thank you. Now, here with an argument for those accessories, carpets, padded with jokes. Let's hear again from Jan Carwana. Thank you, Sean. I will concede. Hardwood is clean.

When you look at a hardwood floor, you know exactly what you're getting. Hardwood, never going to let you down. But carpet. Carpet is a mystery. Carpet has secrets. Carpet contains multitudes. She will embrace you and let you sink deep into her. And give your whole body electric shock.

You can really leave your mark on carpet. A bathroom where nobody thinks carpet belongs. A little piece of her. A little bath mat where we can land and know that everything will be okay before we step onto that cold, hard floor. Because that's what carpet is. A warm oasis in a cold, cold world. Thank you.

Jen really put carpet in a different light for me. Thank you, Jan. Audience, it is up to you. There is some great points and utter nonsense on either side. It is up to you to decide. By applause, who cheers for Jan's carpet communications and gives her their full backing. And who thought Sean's hilarious hardwood homily

was more hearty Sean Cullen. There is no way I can decide between this. It's a tie. Hey, debaters, listeners, we've got more facts and funny coming your way. And right now, we're changing locations from Toronto and heading over to Steve Patterson at the Grand Theater in London, Ontario. I'm Lisa Yuso, a digital producer at Ideas, the podcast that likes to feed your curiosity. I ask my colleagues why they think you should listen. Ideas can make you the smartest, most interesting guest at your next dinner party in less than 60 minutes.

It's got the best of a storytelling podcast with the best of a great lecture. You can pretty much never predict where an episode will take you, but you can count on every episode to shift your perspective, even just a little. Find and follow ideas wherever you get your podcasts. It is so good to be here in London, Ontario, where I grew up and also home of storybook gardens. Storybook gardens, where you can. can see a statue dedicated to a sea lion named Slippery.

For those of you who don't know the history, which is most people in Canada, in 1958, Slippery escaped and swam down the Thames River to Ohio. He was then captured and driven back the only way runaways got around in the 1950s in a station wagon. True story. 50,000 people came to see Slipperies return to London, Ontario.

That's how little happens here. When they finally unveiled the statue, Slippery gave it his seal of approval. Time now to meet two debaters who get along swimmingly. This comic wants to corner the fridge magnet market and become a magnet magnate. Let's welcome Waterloo, Ontario's Courtney Gilmore. One of our favorites.

Hi, Steve. Hi, friends. And this comic stayed indoors. too long making stew, and he went a little stir crazy. It's Kitchener, Ontario's Rob Bebnik. All business. Won't even look at Courtney as he crosses the stage. All right, debaters.

Your topic is one that we think, really, Alma matters. University towns is living in one the best? Crowd is non-committal to this one. London is the perfect place to have this debate because it has a student population exceeding 80, annually. And it's a university town that reflects the lifestyle of the students. For example, many stores sell ping pong balls and red solo cups. Back when I was at Western University, I volunteered on air at campus radio station 949, CHRWFM. Yeah, and that signal number of 94.9

could have also been my grade point average if I hadn't spent so much time playing beer pong solo. Time now for a debate that we hope we'll finish with honors. So, whereas it features a wide range of activities and events, youthful energy, and hometown pride, be it resolved, nothing beats living in a university town. Courtney, you are arguing for this, please. You have two minutes, starting now, Courtney Gilmore. Thank you, Steve. Thank you.

I come from a university town, and it's the best. Waterloo, half the town are math wizards, Half of them built robots in high school, and then there's just one guy who still uses a Blackberry and insists it's going to make a triumphant comeback one day. Universities put your town on the map. Yes, London is already prolific for its many jackasters and strip malls. And guardrails and chunky highlights, and we love you for that.

But schools give the city confidence. It's the prestige of being able to say, I went to Western University and am better than you when no one even asked. They also bring variety. While small towns have one big main attraction like Rib Fest or the garlic exhibit, here you can attend a world-class lecture on neuroscience

and then on your way out see a guy and camel buying fireworks in February. Students are 18 to 25 years old, the most self-conscious demographic. That means university pride comes from a bit of insecurity. It's not loud and brash like a sports team. It's not, we're the best, woo-hoo. It's, we're pretty sure we're great, but we're double-checking.

Sure, it's chaotic, but at least booster juice is open late. Thank you. Bernie Gilmore. On behalf of University Town. Now, here to tell us why he hates university towns to a large degree. Let's hear from Rob Babnick. Nothing beats living in a university town. Have you ever heard someone uttered the phrase, man, I got to say,

nothing beats living in this university town. My life was a real mess until I moved to this university town. I love waking up. Sunday morning and taking my dog for a walk amongst the still drying vomit and discarded prophylactics. You know what I love? Watching young hot idiots who think they know everything because they took a semester of Polly Sigh chase each other around and fall in love only to have it fall apart over

an argument over who should pay for plan B. Stop me when I'm telling a lie. The worst part is when they actually move back home to whatever dustbin they crawled out of, because you don't get to watch the light in their eyes flicker and die out. When they realize life isn't all yoga pants and threesomes. And eventually those empty calories start to take their toll and you realize, hey, my four-year arts degree

didn't even get me a spot on the debaters. Courtney said living in a university town was the bees' knees. Courtney, who grew up in the Twin Cities. Yes, Kitchener Waterloo, as she mentioned. Waterloo, the twin with the universities, and Kitchener the twin with common sense. Courtney, which twin was happier from September to May?

The one with urine-soaked alleyways from drunken boys? Or the one with urine-soaked alleyways from drunken men? Rob Vemnick, ladies and gentlemen. And it's time now for the bare-knuckle round. We're debating whether nothing beats living in a university town. So, let's deliver an argument fit for a Queens. Remember, from your on in, you'll need to be the McMaster of your own domain. I mean no McIll will there. So, since all's Guelph that ends Guelph. Time to strike the right Concordia starting now.

Rob, doesn't it seem helpful to be in a university town where everywhere you look, there's tech savvy students who can help you? If your phone or TV breaks, you can just pull a random student off the street and be like, fix this wizard? It's helpful. Yeah. No, that is super helpful in theory. Have you ever spoken to someone from Gen Z?

No, they're terrified of human contact. There's also free furniture season, okay, Rob, in university towns? Hey, isn't that right? You never have to buy patio furniture. You just wait until May when students move out and the sidewalks look like an IKEA yard sale. It's perfect. It's amazing.

And you're defending this. You're glorifying garbage picking. Yeah. Times are tough, Rob. Times are tough. Hey, look at this trash strewn about the city. Oh, that would look lovely in my foyer. University towns have guest speakers, conferences, symposiums, you know.

Towns that don't have universities just have one guy who saw Nickelback at the mall in 2007 and won't stop talking about it. That was a great show. All right. All right. That was the bare knuckle round. Nickelback is our safe word on this show. Debaters, it's time now for it.

the firing line. In my hand, I have a list of questions on university towns, brought to you by the University for Africa's brainiest wild animals, the hippocampus. Just because you don't get it, doesn't mean it isn't funny. Ask someone besides you that looks smart. Use your brain. In September 2025, thousands gathered for street parties near Western University to celebrate the annual event known by the nickname Hoco. What's Hoco? Courtney? It's a gardening tool convention. That's the crowd's level.

Not for the hippocampus stuff. Two points. Babsy. Hoco? It's homecoming. What, what, it's, we're in a university town. What the hell else would it be? I know it's not funny, but it's just the answer.

Well, yeah, hold on. It is the correct answer. Thank you. But this show likes to explore alternative answers. So though you've gotten the right answer, I'm going to give you minus one-half point. And you know what? I'll take that. It is the answer.

Hoco means homecoming. We also would have accepted, because we are looking for sponsors, Howard Johnson's colonoscopy party. Apartmenttherapy.com says one of the downsides of living in a university town is that bars and restaurants tend to be what? Courtney Gilmore.

Sticky. I can't disagree with that. Plus one. In the bars and restaurants in university towns do tend to be sticky. We were looking for very busy or located right below your apartment. Movies that were filmed in Canadian universities include My Big Fat Greek Wedding at Toronto Metropolitan University, Get Smart at McGill, and what Oscar winner at the University of Toronto?

Rob. Apocalypse now. That's a good answer. I'll give you your point back. That's good. Does anyone know which film is an Oscar-winning film? Filmed a University of Toronto? Goodwill hunting. Goodwill hunting. One point for the audience!

This is the risk of doing a show in London. They're pretty smart. Newfoundland's Memorial University motto is provito in Altum, which is Latin for what? Courtney. Dad, can you send me more money? Good answer. Another point.

Another point from the audience, judging. I actually speak a little Latin, Steve, and it's, I believe, it is, Get Me Another Beer, Boy. Very close. Very close. Provito in Altum, launch forth into the deep, which sounds dirty in English.

That is the firing line, everybody. It's really flown by. It's already almost time for our glorious, grand theater audience here in London to place their votes. votes. But first, here to tell us why he thinks university towns are for flunkies, as far as he's concerned. Let's hear from Rob Bebnik. So saying nothing beats living in a university town is preposterous. I mean, what are you really saying? Nothing beats? A place where your local coffee shop has a lineup out the door with students who can somehow afford daily lattes and

avocado toasts, basically because they're not blowing every dollar they make on a can of Papps. At least in my day, we drank every dime we earned. Now these little brats aren't even cool. If you live in a university town, all you really have is a front row ticket to how much kids suck now. Students sculpting abs instead of sculpting alcohol dependencies. Holding cameras for their influencer friends,

instead of holding their friend's hair while they puke up the night's mistakes. What a shame. That may be the way the world is heading, Steve. But I'll be damned if I'll pay a premium to stand around and watch it. All right. Rob Befnik. Now, here to tell us why her major is in living in a university town.

Let's hear from Courtney Gilmore. Young people bring spirited enthusiasm to a city. They genuinely believe that things are going to work out. we don't have to tell them the truth. We can simply relish in the proximity of their cherubic jubilant. It's good for your health as a middle-aged adult to periodically be around people who have just discovered hummus. It's that same refreshing youthful energy

without having to be young. You can be pushing 40 and still figuring life out because that's pretty much the local pastime. You don't have to go out. You don't have to be there. You don't have to drink. Just enjoy knowing that someone else is. Thank you.

Courtney Gilmore. Interesting angle. All right, audience, it's up to you. By applause, how many of you listened to Courtney's pro-university town dissertation and thought thesis, the one for me? Courtney Gilmore! And who believed that Rob schooled us best about how you University towns aren't higher anything.

Rob Babnick. It is pretty close. I've got to give this one just by a hair to Courtney Gilmore. Well, that's all for this week. I'm Steve Patterson saying whether or not you went to university. I appreciate you listening to us to some degree. I'll argue with you again soon, Canada. Good night.

The debaters is created by Richard Side. This week's episode was produced by Nicole Calendar, Chloe Edbrook, Dean Jenkinson and Graham Clark, with continuity by Graham Clark, Diana Francis, and Gary Jones. With technical production by James Pirella, Todd Reimer, and Chris Sampson. Story editing by Gary Jones. With special thanks to Katie Ellen Humphreys, David Pride, and Emily Ferrier. Executive producer of CBC Radio Comedy is Lee Pitts.

And thanks to everyone at the Grand Theatre in London and the Danforth Music Hall in Toronto. For more CBC podcasts, go to cbc.ca.ca slash podcasts.