The Debaters - Is it silly to hold a grudge? And does a kitchen party beat a shed party?

Episode Date: August 21, 2025

Should you never hold a grudge? Get ready for the ultimate grudge match! Then, a pair of East Coast comedians refuse to play second fiddle when they decide if kitchen parties are superior to shed parties. Featuring:  Elvira Kurt, Arthur Simeon, Ryan Dillon, and Nikki Payne.

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Hey debaters, listeners. This is Nicole Callender, one of the producers on the show. We're on a summer break right now, so you're about to listen to a debate we aired earlier this season. And this one provides some feud for thought when we ask if it's okay to hold grudges. We'll be back in September. with brand new episodes and to kickstart our 20th season. Thanks for listening.

Hey, Canada, we're here with some heartfelt comedy from the Holy Heart Theater in St. John's Newfoundland and Labrador. It's the debater! The debaters where comedians fight with facts and funny in this audience picks the winner. Now here's a man who hosts for this whole heart. Steve Patterson. Hey, thanks, Graham. Hello, Newfoundland. Hello, Canada.

Welcome back to Canada's youngest province. Newfoundland and Labrador. Celebrating a special anniversary in the year 2024. It's 75 years since you joined Confederation. 75 years. Yeah. Before that, you were very much your own country. I even have an idea for what your anthem probably could have been. Something like, oh, Newfoundland, home of multicolored doors.

We'll fish for cod till there ain't no cod no more. We will screech you in. It is not a sin to stay. more than one day if you don't know why we'll explain to you by because you clearly come from away all right that's just an idea you can't come with it time now to meet two debaters that we think you'll want to take a gander at this comic's recipe for chowder left people clamoring for more. It's Toronto's Elvira Kurt! Alvira Kurt! Making her way across the stage

confidently. Alvira Kurt. And this comic lost his job at the air conditioner factory because he spent too much time venting. It's Toronto's Arthur Simeon. Arthur Simeon making his way to the stage today. To my right.

This topic, debaters, is one that you may enjoy in spite of yourself. Grudges, should we all hold them? I understand why people do hold grudges, but I love it when people don't hold grudges, especially when those people is my wife, Nancy. Yes, I screwed up on our wedding night by inviting the entire wedding party back to our suite. or that time when I brought comedians home and kept our daughters up late, but she never held a grudge. So to show her how much I appreciate it,

I wanted to hear how awesome she is from as many people as possible. And that's why everyone here tonight is invited to our anniversary dinner next year. Yeah, you can all come. Time now for a debate that makes no apologies. So, whereas it increases pessimism, stunts your personal growth and keeps you stuck in the past, be it resolved you should never hold a grudge. Elvira, you are arguing for this, please. You have two minutes, starting now.

Alvira Kurt. If anyone can understand the importance of not holding on to negative garbage, it's people who live on a rock in the ocean. Letting crap go is easy if you're not attached to anything to begin. with. I know you're thinking, did this tiny lesbian really come from a way just to tell us to let it go? You're damn right, I did. I thought maybe by being with the nicest people in Canada, some of it might rub off on me. You see, I know a little bit about holding grudges. I come from a long line of of grudge holders.

My people are Hungarians, a dour, joyless folk, whose greatest pleasure comes from stockpiling petty grievances we take to our graves. Just ask my mother. Is this how you gonna live? woman after another for the rest of your life? God, I hope so. My other people, of course, are the gays.

A fabulous folk whose ability to hold grudges puts Hungarians to shame. Don't believe me? That I hate you! And your dumb families and all your stupid friends! Forever! Sound childish? Totally. You know who else sounds like that?

Americans. The Freedom Convoy. Thanos, the Hatfields, the McCoys, Daffy Duck, the Shark from Jaws. This is the hateful company you keep when you hold a grudge. I'm not saying beautiful people don't hold grudge. people don't hold grudges. Everyone in the House of Dragons has beef and they're sexy A.F. What I'm saying is they're ugly on the inside. I mean, all the work it takes to repel logic,

reject reason, and deny humanity. Oh, it curdles the spirit. Holding a grudge is hell on earth. But don't take my word for it. Take it from the guy who comes. Couldn't get over Adam and Eve making one teeny tiny little mistake. Oh my God, seriously, let it go. Thank you. Alvira Kurt, ladies and gentlemen, says let those grudges go. Thank you, Obira.

And now, here to tell us why, For him, a vendetta is always better. Let's hear from Arthur Simeon! Thank you, Steve. Grudge. A persistent feeling of resentment or ill will resulting from past injury or insult. That's right. Holding a grudge means someone else started it.

And there's no reason they should live in peace until death comes calling. Holding a grudge builds character because of a deep sense of obligation to make someone else's life miserable. And to win at their expense. This sense of competition is motivation to wake up every single day and be better. Better than you. Yes, you? You who thought I would never amount to anything. Look at me now.

Grudges have encouraged creativity and entrepreneurship to ridiculous heights. Stewing in resentment has given us Wall Street, Silicon Valley, and every movie star. Every nerd pushed into a locker in school grows up to invent a fridge that can talk to the trash can and also send you text messages. you text messages. Without grudges, we wouldn't have any sort of economic development. Grudges are the greatest job makers in history. The Hartfields and McCoys hated each other so much that film adaptations have kept writers, filmmakers, actors, and crews employed for centuries. Two rappers got into such a bitter feud recently that audio engineers, videographers, smugglers, snitchers, law enforcement, and gossip merchants all worked over time to keep up.

That's why we need grudges. Have you ever tasted Hungarian goulash? Delicious. And now I know it is built on rage. Romeo and Juliet, the greatest love story of all time is built on the world. is built on the foundation of a grudge. If those families don't hold grudges, then it's just two young people falling in love and two agreeable families uniting,

which is extremely boring, as most of your weddings here can attest. Hold a grudge, thank you. Arthur Simeon comes out fighting on behalf of grudges. It is time now for the Bare knuckle round. We're debating whether you should never hold a grudge. So if you're looking to be scorn, big points,

you've got to pass detest and be willing to unloathe onto your opponent. So get your bad blood boiling and forgive this your best shot, starting now. Wow, wow. Wow, Arthur. Not just in the pocket of big tech, but also big goulash. Shame.

I love a good goulash. Look at you. Yeah. You've got a fuel that rage you're holding onto. You need to let it go. That's what I've been working on in therapy for the last 20 years. I'm so excited for this opportunity to resolve that in a friendly radio debate in a couple of minutes. Wait, you...

Do you say 20 years? Yeah, 20 years of holding grudges. I wouldn't say I'm an expert, but my therapist would. You're also kind of making my point for me? because if you've been going to therapy for 20 years, that's a lot of economic... Your therapist is driving a really nice car. I mean, no kidding! No kidding!

Trust me, you don't want this? This is attractive to you? I'm 25 years old! Okay, that's the better enough around, everybody. You're a young 25 at that, I'll be a... It's your pet... It's a very successful 25-year-old. Yes.

Yeah. You look great, Elvira. Shut up. It is time now for the firing line. In my hand, I have a list of questions on holding a grudge brought to you by the dating app for singles who are still mad at their exes, grudgematch.com. Here are your questions. The word grudge comes from the old French word grouchier, which has what meaning? Elvira.

Filthy British beaver pelt stealing sky. Very specific. Two points from the audience. Arthur Simeon. It means justice. Rightful justice. No, it's not even close. Necessary justice. Adjectives you're adding in front of the word aren't helping it.

It means to grumble. Grouchier, to grumble. Cracks.com's list of celebrities who have long-held grudges against each other includes William Shatner and George Takeda, Tyra Banks, and Naomi Campbell, and what two longtime TV co-stars? Helvira. Tom and Jerry. See that?

Cat and mouse, good answer. Two official points. Arthur Simeon. Hudson and Ricks. Oh, somebody did some research on the local industry. Yeah, three points. Three points for the promotional record.

No, they don't like each other. They don't. No, no. It's all for show. No. Terrible. They're never spotted out together around town. I agree.

No, it was the answer was Sarah, Jessica Parker and Kim Cottrell from Sex in the City. Like he said, Hudson and Rex. Ha! Psychology today says one reason we hope we hold grudges is because it gives us what? Arthur. Nice smooth skiing.

All right, all right. Over here, huh? Country music. You know what? Not bad, not bad. It's another official hypothetical point. Psychology today says one reason we hold grudges is because it gives us an identity that provides a sense of solidness and purpose.

And that's why not a lot of people read psychology today. And that is the firing line, everybody. All right, it is almost that magical time when our audience here at Holy Heart Theater picks a winner. But first, here again to remind us why there's nothing tastier than a good long stew. Let's hear again from the always spiteful

but very nice-skinned. Arthur Simeon. Thank you, Steve. Sure, holding grudges may stunt personal growth, but it's built nations, religions, companies, and families. Maybe the sum of the whole is more important than your little quest for personal development, okay? Everyone should hold a minimum of one grudge.

Don't hurt them all. We are socialist animals, not capitalist ones, okay? Spread them around, but make sure everyone has at least one. Holding a grudge has fueled every single innovation and progress we've made in society. Anyone who says otherwise has never achieved anything worthwhile in their lives. Not holding grudges means a world where we all lie down and let people and corporate entities walk all over us, and I for one, say no. I would rather you fail than let bygones be bygones. Thank you.

Arthur Simeon, a little worried he is turning this sweet, sweet Newfoundland, Labrador crowd do a bunch of vengeful mainlanders. Now, here to suggest that if that grudge won't budge, give it a nudge, let's hear from the non-grudge holding, holding Alvira Kurt. A grudge is a joyless party you throw for your worst self. In my family, we curts don't just hold grudges.

We forge them like precious metal, then hone them obsessively, in a death grip so fierce, even golems like lighten up to us. This show, the debaters, is so much fun for you. Do you know how many of these debates I should have watched? But didn't? Tell them, Steve! Tell them! Belts versus suspenders!

Eminemes, baking, leftovers, messy people! While you're being entertained, I'm just reminded of every time I've been wronged. Is this what you want? Do you want to be a curt? Or do you want to be happy? Because clearly, when you hold a grudge, you can't be both.

Mr. Land, choose wisely. I know where you live. Okay. That's Alvira Kurt, everybody. Alvira Kurt. Showing us a lot of sides there. Thank you, Alvira. Audience, it is up to you to decide.

By applause, who agreed with Alvira's belief that you want peace with me always wins over. You want to peace me? Alvira Kurt. Okay. All right. Nice support for Alvira. Okay. And who preferred Arthur's pro-grudge grumblings, Arthur Simeon? All right. The audience has spoken. The winner is Arthur Simeon. Go ahead and cold those grudges near Finland. Big hand for Arthur Simeon and Alvira Kurt, ladies and gentlemen. You're listening to CBC Radio's The Debaters. Want to be a part of the debating action?

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It's Newfoundland's own Ryan Dillon. Give them out here. Get them out here. Ryan, Dylan, Newfoundland's own. Making his way across the stage to the podium. To my left. And this comic memorized the name of every road in her neighborhood just to earn some street cred. It's Sackville, Nova Scotia's Nikki Payne.

Nikki Payne and the crowd riled up and then a royal curtsy for me your topic debaters is one that I think everyone here can celebrate kitchen parties are they superior to shed parties where else could we debate this

nowhere I'm proud to say that I've attended both kitchen and shed parties in Atlantic Canada, and I think they're both great. What some of you in other parts of Canada may never have heard of either of them, so let me explain. A kitchen party is a party that happens in a kitchen.

A shed party is a kitchen party that happens in a shed. Got it? All right. You won't believe me, but it's actually hard to explain these kinds of parties in places like Toronto or Vancouver, because A, those people don't really know how to party. B, a lot of homes barely have kitchens. And C, if they have sheds,

they're being rented out to a family of six. But enough about them, it is time for a debate that will get this party started. So, whereas they're held in the heart of the house, offer family-friendly entertainment, and can even feature live music, be it resolved, kitchen parties, are superior to shed parties.

Ryan, you're arguing for this. You have two minutes. Starting now, Ryan Dillon. Steve, the kitchen party is the perfect place for a party. You're surrounded by friends, family, 30 cousins you only see at Christmas, so their name is on the tip of your tongue. Shed parties, you're surrounded by rope, duct tape, sharp saws.

I'm here to party, not plan a murder. When you get to a kitchen party, you take off your coat when you arrive. That's how you know you're going to have a good time. You take off your coat. You put on your coat to go to the shed. No one's ever had a good time after putting on their coat. Pouring outside, put on your coat. Shovel in the driveway, put on your coat.

Nice Halloween costume, kid. But guess what? Your mom thinks it's too cold outside. Put on your coat. What are you supposed to be? Well, I was Spider-Man, now I'm friggin' Peter Parker. And let me tell you something. The kitchen party is the home

to the best drink you will ever find slush. That beautiful frozen block of liquor and can juice you hack away with Nan's good knife. You know the knife she likes to scare Poppy with? The only slush you'll find at the shunuch. shed party is at that spot behind it where the pies go to pee. The kitchen is the room full of all the food, booze, and music. Why would I leave?

You've got to bring things to the shed. You got to bring your booze, bring your food. You got to bring your phone to play music because Daryl forgot to charge the speaker last night. And let me tell you something. When you run out of booze, when you're on your last cigarette, where do you have to go get more? you send someone to the kitchen. Well, well, well. Look who's come crawling back!

Thank you. Yeah. Ryan Dillon, listen to that hometown crowd for their hometown man, Ryan Dillon. All right. Now, here to shed some light on the sheer awesomeness of shed parties. It's Nikki Payne.

I'd also like to point out the irony of giving the chick with the speech impediment SIG party. Yes. Thanks a lot, producers. Not been lost on me. All right, fine. Kitchen parties are the main event. Thank you.

Shut up! Take you up to the shed and make a man out of you. I'm going to make a man out of you. My two minutes have not started yet. No, they haven't. No. I'm actually a bit scared for both of us, Brian. Sure, the kitchen party's the main event.

But the shed party is the seating party is the seating. the After Hours Club only the cool people know about. The Shag Party was the closest thing to a country club my dad and uncles were ever gonna be allowed to join. Their dressed clothes was t-shirts and hats. They got out of a box of black horse. Or as I thought all my uncles were saying in Rocky House, Harbor, Blackers.

My mom worked on weekends, so my dad took care of me on the weekends. That meant I went with him to seg parties all over our trailer park. So, for those upper Canadians listening in, think Pub, crawl of sadness. Shed upon Shag, filled with transplanted Newfoundlanders, raising their families on the mainland. On the radio was Newfee 30, and it was so popular they gave it another 30 minutes, so they called it Newfee 30 plus 30. They listen to the lamenting songs of their people.

Sonny, don't go away. I am here. Run! Sonny, run! Your mother's a notice it! My first performances were in a shed party. Yeah, I was never in a shed party. I was never intimidated to tell jokes in front of a bunch of inebriated deplorables.

I've been doing it since I was four years old. Sure, a said party isn't as tidy a scene for the tourism commercials, like a sweet old-fashioned kitchen party, right? But for the tourists that wants to experience the gritty side, of Atlanta? You know, the ones that want to find out what we do to the cod after we've kissed it? The shed party's the place to be!

Let you see. Nikki Payne, everybody. Who! Nikki Payne is bringing the heats on behalf of the shed parties. It is time now for the bare knuckle round. We're debating whether kitchen parties beat shed parties,

so really shin dig deep into this topic by refusing to play second fiddle to your opponent as you alcohol them onto the carpet. When things get ugly, stick it to your opponent and shed some light on this topic. Throw everything but the kitchen sink at them to let them know the jig is up Starting now.

Listen, Nikki, the shed isn't a place to party. It's where you store things like tools, parts, your dog who bites people. Your cousin, who bites people. And those are just the sheds in Mount Pearl, right? Okay, fair enough, but shed parties have saved many a marriage, okay? Dagging stuff in a shed that would have gotten a... murdered by mom in a kitchen.

Yeah, and in that kitchen, you'll find the best food, by the way. There's only two things on the menu in the shed, Bud Light and a pack of darts. Okay, but you know what? Kitchen parties are filled with all these challenging people that can play musical instruments. Say parties are for those of us who can only play the spoons. Yeah, yeah, but you guys use those spoons

to play the same song over and over and over again. and over again. Anyone got a light? Okay, you know what? The simple fact is, we're sitting here in our nice church clothes being clean-cut, CBC's listeners, but the fact is that most of us owe our existence to the choices our parents made after a fed party. All right, that's the bare enough around, everybody. It is time now for the firing line in my hand. I have a list of questions on a shed party versus a kitchen party brought to you by a garden party.

A garden party. The party you walk through on your way from the kitchen to the shed. Newfoundland Buzz says classic Newfoundland folk songs played at a kitchen party. include eyes the bye, muscles in the corner, and the night, what happened? Nikki Payne. Poppy's slapping a shag because of what he said to gnaang. I would like to hear that one. That's one and a half points. Ryan Dillon. I'll actually do know this one. It's the night that Patty Murphy died doing what he did best.

Dying. He dies every song, man. I hope that guy's okay. Ah, that is the right answer. The night Pat Murphy died. Yes. In March 2020, a shed party was held on Parliament Hill. What did Justin Trudeau do there? Ryan.

Face painting. Oh, that is good. He sang a duet with a duet with. Alan Doyle of Great Big Sea. Oh. Yeah. It has not helped in the polls. In 2017,

why did a makeshift kitchen party involving an accordion and a guitar break out at Toronto's Pearson Airport? Nikki. The accordion was filled with cocaine. A flight to Newfoundland was delayed by 30 minutes. True story.

I don't even know where they pulled the instruments from. According to the C.E.shop.com, much like a man cave, a sheeshed, offers women the opportunity to do what? Ryan? It sits in the sheeshad to share what she thinks what the she shed should be for. Pretty good.

Nikki? She shows. Oh, damn it. I can do this. I can do this. My therapist is here. She sells sea shows for the she said. Yeah!

That's the fire in line, everybody. Yeah. The actual answer was escape from life. life. I just thought that much a better point to stop on. Sure. Well, it's almost that magical time again here in the Holy Heart Theater when the audience votes for their favorite, but first, here to tell us why the Shed Party always gets

her vote. Let's hear again from Nikki Payne. Sure, I'm a cousin-a-bit, people. They had it coming. My eyes were open to a hidden world of wonder that the other children were unaware of from the safety of the kitchen. I was the tiny leader of a merry band of functional alcoholics. We stole from the kitchen and gave to the us.

We were the misfits. The Fancy Kitchen Party rejects. Yeah, some of my trauma could be traced directly and indirectly back to the Shag Party. But I'm the comedian I am today because of them. I walked into that said a four-year-old girl. I walked out a 48-year-old uncle. Nikki Payne, everybody, yeah.

Nicky Payne. My uncle, Nikki Payne. Now, here with his kitchen counter argument in favor of kitchen parties, let's hear again from Ryan Dillon. The kitchen party brings the whole family together so they can laugh, cheer, celebrate. The shed party brings together a bunch of uncles

so they can talk about how they tried an IPA once and it wasn't for them. The kitchen party is the heart and soul of Newfoundland. So when the show is over tonight, that's where you'll find me in the kitchen, having the time of my life. Anybody need anything while I'm in there? Steve, a drink, Nikki.

One of the million reasons to come inside. Thank you, Newfoundland. I love you. Yeah. Ryan Dillon, a classy argument at the end. He sees the positives in both, but he prefers the kitchen party. It is up to the audience to vote. By applause, who agreed with,

with Nikki's shameless and sharply shared shed shout-out. Nikki Payne, Nikki Payne for the sheds. All right, a lot of love for Nicky. And who agreed with Ryan's Kitchen Party Persuasive pronouncements, Ryan Dillon? It's it. I'm not, I can't, I love you both. It's a tie, we got a tie, the kitchen party

and the shed party. Big hands for Nicky Payne and Ryan Dillon. everybody. Well, that's all for this week. I'm Steve Patterson saying if you haven't been to Newfoundland yet, you better stop by soon to get screeched in. I'll argue with you again soon. Canada Lucky night. The debaters is created by Richard Side. This week's episode was produced by Nicole Callender, Chloe Edbrook, Dean Jenkinson, and Graham Clark, with continuity by Graham Clark, Diana Francis, and Gary Jones. Technical production by James Perrella and Mark Strong. Story editing by Gary Jones.

With special thanks to Katie Ellen Humphreys, Emily Ferrier, and David Pride. Executive producer of CBC Radio Comedy is Lee Pitts. And thanks to everyone at the Holy Heart Theater in St. John's. For more CBC podcasts, go to cBC.ca.ca slash podcasts.