The Debaters - Is it the thought that counts? And is it better to be rich or famous?

Episode Date: September 24, 2026

When it comes to gifts, is it the thought that counts? Charlie Demers brings a thoughtful argument in support of thoughtful gifts, but Deborah Kimmett refuses to wrap her head around it. Then, does wealth beat fame? Chad Anderson would bet money that it’s superior to be rich, but Sean Lecomber says it’s better to be a VIP.Featuring: Charlie Demers, Deborah Kimmett, Chad Anderson, and Sean Lecomber.

Mr. President, my company formed me of the explosion on our rig. On October 2nd. Causing massive water displacement and triggering the tsunami. They all heap to blame on me. Tom Cruise is. Digger got us into this mess. And Digger's gonna dig us out. From the director of Birdman and the Revenant.

What would happen if I stop doing? You starve. You freeze to death. That's what? With great power comes great deniability. I'm not the first, Danny. Digger. See the trail online. Only here's October 2nd.

This is a CBC podcast. We've seen jokes from both sides now from Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, the birthplace of Joni Mitchell. We are so happy to be back in Saskatoon, our Saskatchewan Strong. And I mean that literally. Saskatoon is home to Joyce Hanson, who competes in powerlifting competitions at the age of 89. Saskatoon's Joyce Hanson. She says she's training to stay out of the nursing home. That is her joke, not mine.

I want to make sure I credit her because I don't want her to beat me up. Now it's time to meet two debaters that will pump you up. This comic bought a boot plague vinyl album and ended up with a criminal record. It's Vancouver's Charlie DeVess. One of our very favorites making his way to my left. And this comic once lost control of a riding lawnmower and had to hold on for John Deere Life. It's Toronto's Deb Kimmett. Deborah Kitt, making her way to my rights.

Hi. Hi. How are you? Welcome, friends. Oh, thank you. Your topic, debaters, is one that you'll be glad to receive. Gift giving. Is it the thought that counts?

That platitude is as old as humanity itself, first used by Adam in the Garden of Eden, when he gave Eve an apple, and she said, I already have a bunch of these. And Adam said, well, it's the thought that counts, right? And then Eve said, the point is, you missed my birthday. Or something like that. I dozed off a lot in Bible class.

Time now for a debate that we think will be a gift. So, whereas the time intention and effort are what truly matter, be it resolved when it comes to gifts, it's the thought that counts. Charlie, you're arguing for this, please. You have two minutes. Starting now, Charlie DeMiss. Thank you, thank you. Saskatoon, I stand before you, a 45-year-old man once identified in junior high school as a gifted student with a bright future ahead of me.

Well, it was the thought that counted. Let's keep it biblical, okay? When Jesus of Nazareth was born, two of the first three presents he got were incense. Incense! He wasn't even Catholic. I know some of you were just learning that. But let me tell you, if I were going to a birthday party

for a Jewish infant, would incense be my first gift idea? Oh, does your newborn baby, Yeshua, enjoy pungent smoke? No, probably not. And yet, more than 2,000 years later, those gift givers are remembered as wise men. They are the magi,

a Latin word derived, from Jesus saying, hey, that's my guy. All because it was the thought that counted. Some people disagree, okay? I understand there are some couples who just tell each other what to buy themselves for birthdays and anniversaries. What's the point of this?

Marriage is already literally just a never-ending text thread, where you tell another grown-up about things they have to buy. Oh, we need eggs. Oh, she's supposed to bring cookies for this school thing tomorrow. Oh, you need to pick up in a Kira Kurosawa Blu-ray box set. For Christmas, as a physical token of your ongoing promise, not to abandon me despite my many and fundamental flaws. Because that's the thing, right?

Gifts aren't about what you need. not even really about what you want. They're about relationship. It's not about getting exactly the right thing. It's about being the right person. The person with a gift receipt. Thank you. Charlie DeNast, everybody. It is the thought that counts, he says. Thank you, Charlie. Now, here with the gift of the gab to gab about gifts, let's hear from the one and only, Deborah Kimmel. People who say it's not the gift that matters, it's about relationship, don't realize that if they thought about it and gave you a good gift, you'd have a better relationship. The person who says it's a thought that counts, it's the same person who says it's not about the money. After they stiff you for the restaurant bill the third time in a row and drive off in their Tesla.

This debate suggests that if you put time, intention, and effort, that means something. What other situation does that work? I mean, if you said, officer, I intended to do the speed limit. To your boss, I was thinking of going into work today. My point is that just because you spent hours knitting a sweater for me doesn't mean it's not ugly. You call it a crocheted toilet paper cover doll. I call it one more thing my family has to get rid of when I die. What this debate suggests that they want to give a whole pass

to the chronically bad gift giver. I say no. When I turned 60, people started to give me shoals. She's old. Let's wrap her up. They also give me tea. What? Tea. Tea. I'm not dying. Do you know how many David's tea samplers I have in my apartment taking up closet space? All because this face suggests they know me, they don't.

I'm not drinking tea. Because the end of my shawl will get in the cup and drip everywhere. I had a boyfriend once. A long time ago. He gave me a star from the sky. It was the 90s. Remember that when people bought stars from the galaxy? He got a gift certificate, paid 500 bucks for a star,

takes me out on my birthday and makes me look up at the universe and says, there it is, and I'm where. And he's like, to the left. And then I squinted, and I saw it was a constellation of a woman looking for another boyfriend. That's the issue. Some people, you start thinking when it comes to gifts. You have to stop that.

You don't think for yourself at any other time of the year. Let's not start on my friggin' birthday, okay? Because I made you a list. It's on the fridge. Just look at the list, and everybody will have a great relationship. Thank you. Yeah.

Deborah Kimet says it is not the thought that counts, and she brought receipts. It is time now for the bare knuckle round. We're debating if it's the third. thought that counts, so you two couple of cards need to stay present to avoid that thinking feeling. No gifts, hands, or butts. It's time for you two thoughtful gestures to start ripping each other apart, starting now. So much bitterness. I mean, what's wrong? You know, shawls for your 60th birthday? That's fine. I mean, I, you know, my French family's been calling me that since my first

birthday. They said, oh, Shao, he's so beautiful. You know, you hate knitters? Who hates knitters? I don't want to front their OCD problem. They're not knitting for us. They're knitting because they can't stop. They got carpal tunnel and they keep doing it. They can't help themselves. You know what? I think what happened to you, I know you've been married a long time and you were a very romantic guy and you tried to give your wife nice gifts. Don't, don't you think maybe you just set the bar too high. Well, I know that I set the bar too high, but that's what I'm saying, is that the gifts don't, and you can be creative in a, in a, in a, so I'll tell you, one of my favorite, here's, start knitting, start knitting something, quick.

Proof that it's the thought, the thought that counts. One of our first Christmases together, we were in Halifax, I was in a used bookstore, this was the week before Christmas, and I was going around and I got five or six books down off the shelf, and my wife, before I got to the until she said, you can't do that. You buy too many books. Also, we're on a trip. You've got to put those back. And so I put them back.

I felt ashamed. And then she just went back around and got all those books and gave them to me for Christmas. Well, that's... That's the thought that counts, right? Yeah, yeah. That's not exactly a story

like the gift of the magi, but it's close. You know, it's close. But the point is, I thought you would like it. Well, the point is that these people thought they were at a comedy show. I call it there. That was the bare knuckle round, everybody. It is time now for the firing line. In my hand, I have a list of questions on the thought that counts,

brought to you by a mathematician's brain, filled with thoughts that count. If you don't get it, doesn't mean it's not funny. The downtown Saskatoon Business Improvement District has introduced a gift card that allows the lucky recipient to do what? Deb. Not have to shop in the downtown court?

No, Deborah. There was actual angry utterances in there. I know there was a little bit. I'm sorry. I hate that kind of cheap shot comedy. The card actually allows the holder to tell the whole world they're not in Regina. It allows you to shop at several different downtown shops, restaurants, salons, and other locations.

Is the cannabis shop one of those stores? I don't know if anyone noticed that there's a big sign across the street from here. It says, the cannabis shop. We sell cannabis. Three gift ideas from style by Emily Henderson.com for that person you want to wow with your effort are a nice container with handwritten compliments in it, a customized photo book, and what else?

Charlie. A printed Wikipedia. entry for who Emily Henderson is. I will give a point for that. Deborah? A hundred bucks. Wouldn't that be nice? Yeah, with the compliments.

Yeah, that would be great if it was a hundred bucks. No, a custom illustration. Who is this for me? I don't know. I already don't like her. I don't know where we... In the movie, a Christmas story said in the 1940s, What ill-thought-out gift does the main character Ralphie receive from his aunt?

Charlie. An Emperor Hirohito will never surrender T-shirt. See, the key is that it's the 1940s, right? So if you go back through the question, what ill-thought-out gift? An ill-thought-out gift in the 1940s. What ill-thought-out gift? and what could be more ill-thought-out in the 1940s

than an Emperor Hirohito will never surrender T-shirt because, of course, he did surrender in 1945, which is in the middle of the 1940s. Yeah. Did you say the question again? Yes, I could say the question again. In the movie A Christmas Story said in the 1940s, what ill-thought-out gift does the main character Ralphie receive from his aunt?

Deb? A lap dance. Yay! Good one. Three points. Huffpost.com says when receiving a gift it's bad etiquette to say what.

Deb. God, I knew you were my secret, Santa. That seemed like something you've actually said. I'm going to give three points for that one. Charlie DeMarris. I think we should see other people. Also good. Two points.

When receiving a gift is bad. etiquette to say you shouldn't have or ew this is gross or I love Emperor Heroita is the firing line everybody well it is almost time for our Broadway theater audience to place their votes but first here again with a counterthought about it being the thought that counts let's hear from Deborah Kimet people always say it's better to give than to receive and that is because the giver doesn't have to pretend they like the gift. Let's imagine you're a man and you want to please your wife in the manly way that you would.

And you're there, you're noodling away, giving it all your effort, taking a lot of time, maybe too much time because everybody has to get up in the morning, but every single time, despite all that, you don't quite get the job done. Your wife would never criticize you. She'd give you a thumbs up and wrap it up. My point is she would act her way through that because she loves you. And she's like doing Merrill Streep kind of work there

in the bedroom. Surely to God, she shouldn't have to put on that performance when you give her your anniversary gift. Unless you're that man who thought, that was her anniversary. Thank you. Deborah Kimmett. Now, here to say, when it comes to gifts,

he gives an A for effort. Let's hear from Charlie DeMeres. Thank you, sir. Think of some of the most famous gifts in history. We remember them because of the thought that went into them. I mean, the Trojan horse? That was thoughtful.

I don't know. know how many Greeks you're going to hide under a Best Buy gift card. You know, Deb's just enchanted you all with this, you know, lascivious bedroom analogy. But actually, her scenario proves my point, that it's the thought that counts. Because my wife often has to think of someone else. Thank you. Whoa! Charlie DeMess!

Whoa! Oh, that was a shock. This is going to seem like I'm making it up, but that ended way sooner than I thought. It's a very, it's a very succinct closing argument, Charlie. All right. It is time to vote, Saskatoon. By applause, how many of you heard Charlie's thoughts

on the thought that counts and thought, yes, Charlie did it? And how many of you concluded that when Deborah debated her denunciation of the thought that counts, she was the truly gifted one, Deborah Kimmett. The audience has spoken. They want real gifts. The winner is Deborah Kimet. It is not just the thought that counts.

Big hand for Deb Kimet and Charlie DeMass, everybody. You're listening to CBC's The Debaters. Want access to bonus content and information on upcoming tour dates? Then be sure to follow us on Instagram. You can find us at at CBC Debaters. Mr. President, my company told me of the explosion on our rig on October 2nd. Nassive water displacement and triggering the tsunami. They all heap to blame all me.

Tom Cruise is. Digger got us into this special. And Digger's gonna dig us out. From the director of Birdman and the Revenant. What would happen if I stop doing? You storm. You freeze to death. That's what?

With great power comes great deniability. I'm not the earth, Danny. Digger, see the trailer online. Only in June 2nd. Accessibility is making your education work for you, regardless of circumstance. At Athabasca University, we have no entrance requirements for undergrad programs and automatic acceptance. If you have the desire to learn, AU is a great option.

Open your options with a more accessible online degree. And choose an education that works for you, not the other way around. Find out how at Athabaskyu.cuh.cuh.com. Hey, Saskatoon, I have just one question for you. Are you ready to meet your next pair of debaters? And so we shall. This comic thinks every king should sit next to a fan just to get some air to the throne. It's Winnipeg's Chad Anderson.

Chad Anderson. One of our favorites making his way to my left. Hello, Steve. Hello, Chad. Welcome back, my friend. Thank you for having me again. And this comic hopes his vintage toy story action figure is worth thousands. Knock on Woody.

It's Edmonton's Sean LeCumber. Your topic, gentlemen, is one that you can bank on. Being rich. Is it superior to being famous? Obviously, this is a tough one for me to remain neutral on. As a CBC radio host and full-time Canadian comedian, I am both rich and famous. And we rich and famous people sit in the back of the vehicles that transport us,

which is what I told myself on the way here when Air Canada sat me in the last row next to the toilet. Now, for a debate that will have you seeing stars. So, whereas more money means more control, possibilities, and freedom, be it resolved when it comes to status, being rich is superior to being famous. Chad, you are arguing for this, please.

You have two minutes, starting now, Chad Anderson. Would you rather be rich or famous? Well, if you value privacy, then obviously rich is the choice for you. Sure, if you're famous, you're most likely rich, but not always, and you have no privacy. If you're just rich, baby, you can walk around with us normies. You're living just free and easy, not a care in the world. If you're rich and famous, well, then people are constantly asking you for stuff and following you around. Sounds exhausting. Besides, I'm a parent. I already have someone who constantly follows me around asking for stuff.

Sure, if you get too rich, people might find out and start following you around and asking you for stuff, but you're rich. You could just move away. I would also like to point out that sometimes people get famous but are not rich. What are you going to do then, huh? Everyone knows who you are, but you have nothing to show for it. You got famous for something you can't monetize. Now your options are to go on some kind of reality show, or you spiral up. start drinking and get into some kind of fatal accident trying to run from your fame.

But jokes on you, you didn't die in the accident. Now you're famous for an even worse reason. Remember the double rainbow guy? Do you know what his net worth is today? Nothing because he's dead. Thank you. Chad Anderson. Really bringing that one in for an unexpected landing, Chad. Thank you, Chad.

Now, here to insist that he'd way rather be almost famous than almost rich. Let's hear from the real Sean Lecumber. Thank you. Zip Bob Willy Bally Boo. Why isn't anyone laughing? Because I'm not Bill Burr. If I was, you'd all be cackling. Oh, that Billy boy.

He's liable to say anything. What a gem. So you'd prefer money to fame? So when you were at home, just a little kid, dancing around in your living room, singing pour some sugar on me, in front of an imaginary audience of 80,000 people, you were thinking to yourself, I want to be a rock star, so I can achieve long-term financial stability. Think back to before our lives became a tar swim.

When we were just little kids, you wanted everyone to know your name, so you could prove your worth and spite your enemy. See you at prom, Rick. I'll be the fat kid in a salmon suit dancing with Scarlett Johansson. Most people say, I don't need too much money. Just a few million.

Right. I'll just take a little cocaine. It won't become a problem. If I gave you three million, new house, new boat, new cars, would you be happy? No. No. Listen to that probably old woman.

child. If I gave you a new house, new boat, new cars, would you be happy? No. You'd say, this is great, but how can I use my remaining capital to exploit workers? Rich people are just the bully from high school, but after grade 12, no one talks like that anymore. You're just the guy with the nice house, and who cares how you got it. We love rich people for some reason. Elon Musk is famous just for being rich. But Sean, he's going to take us to the moon. Have you seen a recent photo of the moon? It looks like the north side of vagina. Thank you. Sean McCabeer wants to be almost famous. Chad Anderson would rather be rich and it's time now for the bare knuckle round. We're debating whether being rich is superior to being famous. So since time flies when you're having trust

fund, let me just mansion something here, all right, that you'll receive luminaria laugh without a wealth-thought-out argument. So, start your recognitions and make this crowd VIP themselves starting now. Sure, Sean, it would be nice to be as famous as Bill Burr, but if you were, you wouldn't be taking this wonderful opportunity to visit the beautiful city of Saskatoon to perform for old people at 2 p.m. on a Sunday. So, yes, I would. That's right.

The ticket price would look different. Let's be honest. Nobody in here for less than 500. You wouldn't hear a child yelling. Adults only. But I would. Listen, fame is a renewable resource. It's the sun.

If you were famous and you ran out of money, all you'd have to do is just wear a Sun Life financial head on a podcast. 30 second ad read. Boom, 50 grand. Done. I'm writing this down. Thanks, Steve. Sure, I mean, being famous would be nice, but fame chasers only care about themselves. And rich people also only care about themselves. Boom. But...

But... But... The difference is... Rich people will donate quietly to a charity. Sure. Sure. It's for the tax break. But famous people will donate to the charity and then tell you about it forever.

So, okay, let's, we'll take that out. Stick with it. Stick with it. John? Even if you were famous for something stupid, like, you know, you tried to grab a grizzly bear cub on the side of a highway. and you just caressed it in your arms. And everybody watching the video's like,

Mama's coming out of the bush! This guy's an idiot! Just at the end of the video, I'd be like Sun Life Financial. Boom. All right. I think we've got what we need here for the Bear Knock the Round. We don't normally have sponsors, but Sun Life, reach out to Sean, will you?

It is... It's time now for the firing line. In my hand, I have a list of questions on being rich or famous, brought to you by the Property Brothers. When your twin gets famous, there's a good chance you will to. According to financial advisor Andrew Jeffrey, what's the top mistake to avoid after winning the lottery? Chad?

Putting all your winnings on red. Or it's the best mistake. I love you answered two questions there. Sean. Throwing it all into an RSP. Gonna be way over your limit, idiot. Oh, two points. What a great Canadian answer, right? The top mistake to avoid after winning the lottery is making your win to public. We also would have accepted telling your spouse you won.

Keep that on the down low, boys. All right. According to psychology today, a person who's obsessed with the details of a celebrity's personal and professional life has a condition called C-W-S. What do the letters C-W-S stand for? Sean? Celebrity World Series. Celebrity World Series. Celebrity World Series.

I was going to go with wanton soup. I changed it in the last second for wanted less laughs. Neither of those, but I love the idea of celebrity wanton soup. I really. Cool, right? Chad? CWS, completely without someone to love.

Was that really? What was that? Oh, that poor imaginary person. Grow up. You really struck a court with this crowd. They didn't even realize that's way too many letters. CWS stands for

Celebrity Worship Syndrome. we also would have accepted Christopher Walkenstockin. Huh? Yeah. I made that of myself. BuzzFeed's list of wild and outrageous celebrity purchases that confirm we should eat the rich includes Nicholas Cage spending $276,000 on what artifact?

Chad? The Declaration of Independence. Yeah. Big national treasure crowd here is asking us. The answer. That's a full point. Sean LeCumber. Dick Cheney's Invisaline Trades.

What are you talking about? I love it. One point. The actual answer was a dinosaur skull, which he later found out was stolen and had to return to the Mongolian government. I can't improve on that.

That's the firing line, everybody. This is a good one, and our Broadway theater audience has a tough decision before them, but first, here to say that he'd rather be in the Hall of Fame than the Hall of Rich. Let's hear again from the richly funny, Sean Lecumber. Just think about your mental health. Imagine yourself as famous.

You're an accountant in Saskatoon. On your way to work eight people say, God, I love you. You're going to just glide into your cubicle. Feeling so good about yourself. You grab a don't air for lunch. You walk in and the guy goes, free jumbo for you free jumbo

God that's good sweet sauce because I can't pronounce the other one said Sikiki Ted Sikki said satsiki I don't know Being rich is awesome But if you just have money

It can run out Fame is the wind It's the sun Show me a guy who is famous and not rich and I'll show you a guy who isn't that famous. Thank you. John LeCumber. John LeCumber, making excellent points.

I don't even know what the context of Free Jumbo was, but I enjoyed it. Yeah, I shouldn't have said it with the accent. Lost some laughs on the accent. But live and learn. Thank you. Oh, now here to tell us why he'd rather be richy rich than famy,

Let's hear from Chad Anderson. Oh, you want to be famous more than anything? Oh, you must be the best kind of person to be around. Think about fame chasers. They're all the worst people. They don't care about anyone else. Become the 1%. Sure, people might hate you, you're so rich,

but you're among the elite now. Poison the food supply. Sell people things they don't need at price, they can't afford. You can do anything, and no one can stop you. Become so rich that your cousin from Alberta thinks you control the weather. Sure, attaining wealth is hard,

but you'll be better off for it. If you chase fame, you'll probably end up pretending to be an indigenous woman for 65 years, and then you'll disappear to Hawaii when it's found out that you're actually just an Italian woman from Massachusetts. Thank you.

Yes. Chad Anderson. Well played, my friend. All right. By the way, for those of you who oohed, I am indigenous so I can say that about her. Okay? Yeah.

Okay? Just before you vote, takes that into consideration. And also, I'm white. I can do the don't air thing. You guys should see how fat I am. Yeah. Yes. Well, we're all representing something on stage.

here and it's time to vote. By applause, who thinks that a win for Chad would be right on the money and richly deserved Chad Anderson? And after listening to Sean, how many of you now consider yourselves to be radical feminists? Sean LeCumber. And it's against his best instincts. The winner is Sean LeCumber. It's better to be famous than rich. Big hand for Sean LeCumber and Chad Anderson, everybody. Well, that's all for this week. I'm Steve Patterson saying whether you you're famous or not, we appreciate you listening or at least paying someone else to listen to us for you. I'll argue with you again soon, Canada. Good night. The Debaters is created by Richard Side. This week's episode was produced by Nicole Callender, Chloe Edbrook, Dean Jenkinson and

Graham Clark, with continuity by Graham Clark, Diana Francis, and Gary Jones. Technical production by James Pirella and Don Summers. Story editing by Gary Jones. With special thanks to Katie Ellen Humphreys, David Pride, and Emily Ferrier. Executive producer of CBC Radio Comedy is Lee Pitts. And thanks to everyone at the Broadway Theater in Saskatoon. For more CBC

podcasts, go to cBC.ca slash podcasts.