The Debaters - Is shawarma the best late-night food? Are parent-teacher conferences important?

Episode Date: January 15, 2026

We’ve got a meaty debate on whether shawarma is the best midnight meal, then, two comedians school each other on parent-teacher conferences.Featuring: Ali Hassan, Courtney Gilmour, Matt Falk, and Jenny Pue.

Hi, Steve Patterson here, and I love a good argument. So here we go. Is Manitoba a prairie province or a maritime one? It might sound like a joke, but University of Manitoba researchers are seriously exploring how a changing Hudson Bay could reshape Canada's economy. Dr. Fay Wang and his team are studying how increased Arctic shipping could be done responsibly and sustainably. Learn about Manitoba's surprising place in global trade by checking out the University of Manitoba's podcast. What's the big idea? This is a CBC podcast. Hey Canada, are you ready to get buttered up from Ottawa, home of the annual Butter Tart Festival? It's the debater. Let's fight with fact and funny in this audience takes the winner.

Now here's a man who's got a tart of gold. Welcome. We're back in one of our favorite homes away from home, Ottawa. Yes, Ottawa, Ontario. A city that is too fast, too furious. In fact, city councilors want to crack down. on Ottawa's stunt driving problem, where drivers gather in parking lots and start racing and doing donuts. Or as the ones driving compact cars call it, doing timbits.

Well, Ottawa, you might try what they've done in my home city of Toronto to combat stunt driving, put endless construction everywhere, so no one can ever go faster than 15 kilometers an hour. And trust me, from the drive I took to get here, you're pretty close. Now, let's meet two debaters who never spin their wheels, shall we? This comedian used seashells as castanets and left people clamoring for more. It's CBC Laugh Out Louds, Ali Hassan. Come on up, purposely to my left. And this comic met a locksmith who was bad with numbers,

which made for a terrible combination. It's Toronto's Courtney Gilmore. Come on up, Courtney Gilmore. Courtney Gilmore. Hi, Courtney. Welcome back. Debaters, your topic is one that we hope you'll shawarma up to. The shwarma!

Is it the best late-night food? The crowd is legitimately more excited about that than most things. They get excited about here. Ottawa has officially declared itself the Schwarmah Capital of Canada. Yeah. Yeah. In fact, there's an annual festival here

to celebrate Middle Eastern food with around 200 Chihuamara restaurants in the city. You could sample them all if you've got a soft spot in your heart for Schwarma, but after that, you're likely to have a hard spot in your heart. Time now for a debate that will never pita out. So, whereas it offers a unique combination of textures and flavors, endless customizations, and a filling meal for an affordable price, be resolved that Schwarma is the best late-night food. Ali, you are not.

arguing for this, please. You have two minutes. Starting now, Ali Hassan. The word Schwarmah comes from the Turkish word severe me, meaning to turn, which is perfect, because everywhere I turn in this city, there's a vertical spit with juicy meat on it. The nutty tahini, creamy garlic, tangy toppings, crispy, savory meat. Why is this even a debate? Ottawa, we cannot lose this thing, all right? No matter what that white devil has tucked up her sleeves. Now, Courtney, I know what you're thinking. Shworma is too macho and aggressive. Too many swords and sickles, you say.

Well, that's old news, Habibi. Sure. The original Shwama restaurants, sure, they had names like Arabian attack and Swarmageddon and the butcher of Baghdad. That might have been Saddam Hussein's nickname. I'm sorry. Anyway, it's a name.

new dawn, baby. I saw a Mrs. Schwarma recently. Huh? Progressive. I saw a spot called Schwarmah Daddy. Ooh, kinky. Courtney, Schwarmah saves lives. Yeah. Men and women leave nightclubs drunk with rage. You want to go, bud? Yeah, bud. But first, a shwerma. And then you hear that sirens call. What can I get you, my friend? What? You can't fight when you just made a new friend? It's also impossible to fight while holding a shworma. And appraise shwerma, that garlic sauce has your eyes watering so bad. You can't fight. To quote my son's baseball coach, you can't hit balls with tears in your eyes. Even Iron Man in the 2012 film The Avengers

invited all his Avengers friends to go for Schwarma. You think you're cooler than Iron Man? Courtney Gilmore, good luck with that. Thank you. Ali Hassan. Yeah. With a passionate opening argument on behalf of Schwarmes, I gotta say, can't hit balls with tears in your eyes.

You could sell that shirt after the show right now. Now, Here to tell us why she's got such a beef against Schwarmah. It's the deliciously funny Courtney Gilmore. Ah, Ottawa. Now, before you get your pickled turnips in a garlic knot, I do like Schwarma. I do like it. But is it the best late-night food?

To crave late-night food is to admit that your mind is in a certain vulnerable state. And that state requires careful navigation, careful navigation, deft precision. Last time I went to one of Ottawa's classic late night establishments during said state. I ended up ordering a buffalo chicken poutine and a blue cotton candy milkshake.

And let's just say, housekeeping earned their tip. And this is because nobody makes a good decision at an after-hours food spot, the same way no one ever makes a good decision at a mall kiosk. Both are run by people who can smell, hesitation, sensory overload, tequila.

You make eye contact once and it's over. Your eyes are getting a euro the size of your head or your eyebrows threaded into oblivion. Fresh off fireball shooters and the most feral karaoke performance of your life Your stomach is not looking for a unique combination of flavors and textures. Calling Schwurma a filling meal is not the flex you think it is. Filling is code for regret.

Schwarma sits in your stomach like a weighted blanket, and that weighted blanket is soaked in garlic. Schwarmes like an Instagram versus reality situation. Instagram. juicy chicken wrapped in flavorful toppings, reality, dry cleaning, heartburn medication, and an Uber surcharge when you puke. None of that is on the menu.

Affordable? Sure, but at what cost? Thank you. Yeah. Courtney Gilmore coming up swinging against the swarmug. And it's time now for the bare-knuckle round. We're debating whether the shawarma is the best late night food. So give your opponent a good

late night clubbing and force them to admit they've been foiled again. Go ahead and take them out at the tahini's. Be sure to leave this audience filafull full of laughter. Roast your opponent making them so angry they could just spit. Let us wrap this up now. Ali, you mentioned Iron Man and asked me if I think I'm cooler than Iron Man? Yeah, Allie, I do think I'm cooler than Iron Man, okay? Ali is eating a swarma. We're mid-debat here, buddy. What are you eating?

What is going on over? You want a bite of this? No, I do not want a bite out of this. What are you doing? I have some garlic potatoes as well, if you want. Look at, just take a look at what's happening here, right? This is the kind of discrimination that we go through as swarma eaters. If this was a hot dog, I bet she wouldn't have a problem with it, would you?

I would have a problem with it. I have a big problem with it. Because you shouldn't be eating during a debate. That's my problem. Yes, thank you, Courtney. Here's the thing, Cort. Can I call you court? Please don't.

Courtney, the thing is, I just, I'm trying to understand why you're, so hell bent on hurting the feelings of the good people of Ottawa. That's what I can't sort of figure out. Does that make you feel better about yourself? Is that what's happening here? No, I'm not trying to hurt Ottawa. Listen, I'm not, I'm trying to help them. Because when it comes to late night food, it's like, I want something that's self-contained. I want something that's like clean and easy and compact. Like the unsung hero of meat that does spin, okay, how about the 7-11 tequito? All right? We got that's the, you know, it's self-cuit. It's got a, it's got, it's It's deletion, it's portion-controlled dignity, okay?

Everything is... This is the most beautiful, simple food you can eat. After a night of giving yourself to others, you've danced for others, you've drank for others, you've had shots that you never ordered. Finally, it's your selfish moment and you have a shwarma. There's nothing messy about it. Have you ever eaten sog panir and a chapati in the streets?

No! That's my point. Is it? I don't know. I wouldn't eat sog panir in the street, and I wouldn't eat shworma in the streets. swarma in the street either, okay? I don't trust you. You're doing anything for

others. What about the garlic pores? I can smell you from here, Ali. Listen, with the is the garlic is what makes the swarma a memorable meal. We're talking about making memories here. The next day you wake up and you know exactly what you did. Okay, that's the bear enough around, everybody.

All right. All right. It is time now for the firing line. In my hand, I have a list of questions on the Schwarma being the best late-night food brought to you by hot dogs. Hot dogs. Half the price of Schwarma with double the mysterious ingredients. That's good value.

In summer 2025, Canadian Schwarma chain Osmos launched a new dish in collaboration with Doritos called what? Ali? The dirty Samir? Doritos. It's not, but I like it. Courtney? Shorito's Cool Ranch. I like it, they're into it.

This is that. Incorrect. The crowd really enjoyed it. No, it was something called the Walking Schwarma, which was shorma protein and toppings on top of tortilla chips served in a Doritos bag. A 2024 article from NAR City lists the seven best late-night restaurants in Ottawa, which included Shwarma Palace,

Palace, Sasha's Poutine stand, and what establishment known by the nickname ESD? Courtney? Extremely stupid donaires. Incorrect, but I like the delivery. One point. Ali? Enter Satan's dungeon. My favorite Shorma place of all the Shwara place.

No, ESF. S. D stands for, come on, crowd. Street Diner, that's how popular it is. And it's open 24 hours unless it's closed. YouTuber Shelby's Canada went viral for a video telling you to never do what with Schwarmor. Courtney? Oh, eat it.

Incorrect, but two points from the audience. Never add ketchup. Never add ketchup. If you're going to YouTube for meal advice, that's an issue that you have. Ottawa held its first Schwarmah Festival competition in 2025. Who was the winner? Courtney?

The city's plumbers. That's good. Two points for Courtney. Ali Hassan. Swarmapalas, baby. That is the correct answer. Swarmapalas was the winner of the Swarma Festival competition. That is the firing line, everybody. We're in the home stretch now.

And it's almost time for our discerning center point theater audience to vote. But first, here again, to skewer the very idea of the Schwarmah. Let's hear again from Courtney Gilmore. The bottom line is that when it comes to late-night food, simplicity is key. At 2 a.m., food should not require schematics. Hot dogs equal idiot proof. Pizza equals yummy triangle, fries equal salty sticks,

Schwarma equals mystery scroll from the Dead Sea. Schwarma demands decisions. At last call, food should solve your problems, not give you a puzzle. And that's why pizza is a hero, fries are a friend, and Schworma is a group project that you did not sign up for. Thank you. Ordie Gilmore.

Get up with Courtney's laying down here. Nice support for court. And now, here to insist that any way you slice it, Schwarma sure is shwar marvelous to him. It's Ali Hassan. Ottawa, a few years ago, I went for a swarma in the Yukon. I'm an adventurer. I like to party.

The place was owned by a white guy. It was run by a Punjabi guy who garnished my swarma with shredded carrots, yogurt dip as thick as molasses, and then he asked me, do you want Monterey jack cheese on your swarma? I sat down, depressed. I took a bite of this monstrosity and it's pretty good.

It was pretty good. Now, it wasn't a shorma, but it was built on a shorma chassis, and that's how good shorma is, Courtney. Even when she bad, she good, all right? I used to say that about pizza. Even bad pizza is good. Well, I disagree. You can be pizza in the streets, but everybody wants a swarma in the sheets. Thank you, all the one. All right. All right.

Ali Hassan, with some brand new slogans. You can sell a bunch of shirts after this show. You know, you've got a lot going on. All right, audience, it is up to you, and it's time to vote. By applause, how many of you felt that Ali slowly, slowly turns you around to his way of pro-Schwarma thinking, Ellie Hassan. La-a-lap for Ali. And who agreed with Courtney after hearing her say, Schwarmes, Schwarnah, thanks. Courtney Gilmore.

Pretty close. But it is inconclusive. It's a tie, ladies and gentlemen. It's a tie. You're listening to CBC's The Debaters. Want to be a part of the debating action? For upcoming tour dates, be sure to visit our website at cbc.ca slash the debaters.

Hi, Steve Patterson here, and I love a good argument. So here we go. Is Manitoba a prairie province or a maritime one? It might sound like a joke, but University of Manitoba researchers are seriously exploring how a changing Hudson Bay could reshape Canada's economy. Dr. Fay Wang and his team are studying how increased Arctic shipping

could be done responsibly and sustainably. Learn about Manitoba's surprising place in global trade by checking out the University of Manitoba's podcast. What's the big idea? Every day, your eyes are working overtime. From squinting at screens and navigating bright sun to late-night drives and early morning commutes. They do so much to help you experience the world. That's why regular eye exams are so important.

Comprehensive eye exams at Specsavers are designed to check your vision and overall eye health. Every standard eye exam includes an OCT 3D eye scan. Advanced technology that helps your optometrists detect early signs of eye and health conditions, like glaucoma, cataracts, or even diabetes. It's a quick, non-invasive scan that provides a detailed look at what's happening beneath the surface. Don't wait. Give your eyes the care they deserve. Book an eye exam at Specsavers from just $99, including an OCT scan. Book at Spexsavers.cavers.cai.a.

Eye exams are provided by independent optometrists. Prices may vary by location. Visit Spexavers.cavers.ca to learn more. I just have one question. Hey, Ottawa. Are you ready to meet your next pair of debaters? Listen to that. Crowd Canada. This comic wonders if Shakespeare ever wrote with a pencil like a 2B or a not to be.

It's Winnipeg's Matt Falk. Come on, oh Matt. Matt Falk. One of Canada's funniest, one of our favorites. Hi, everyone. Hello, Steve. Hi, friend, welcome back. And this comic used a cow to trim her yard

because it's the perfect lawnmower. Let's welcome Jenny Pugh! Jenny Pugh striding across the stage to my right. Hi Jenny. Welcome back. Hi, Steve. Thank you. Debaters, your topic gets an A-plus from us. Parent-teacher conferences.

Are they important? I actually have a secret fantasy that my child has the same grade 6 teacher that I had. So I could show up to the parent-teacher meeting and say, Well, Mr. Coleman, turns out I can make a living doing this. Yeah.

Now, when are you going to apply yourself and become vice-principle, Donald? It's time now for a debate that will school us all. So, whereas they provide parents with valuable insight into their child's education, be it resolved that parent-teacher conferences are important. Matt, you are arguing for this. You have two minutes starting now. Matt Funk. Thank you.

Why would you not want to talk with an educator today? First of all, it is so refreshing to sit down with a teacher when I haven't done anything wrong. Parent-teacher conferences are the only time I will hear what's actually happening in that classroom. What do your kids do at school? According to children everywhere. Nothing. Like literally nothing happened all day? Yeah, not really.

Your kids could partner with NASA and go on a field trip to the moon and they'd be like, I don't know. Something with rocks. Also, if you have young children, let's face it, you're not leaving the house. This is a chance to go out. Do you remember out?

You used to go to museums and go see movies. Now you're stuck at home watching a second-rate straight-to-streaming animated slog fest that makes you long for the days when you spent your hard-earned money to see Twilight Breaking Dawn Part 2 in theaters. But no, when it's parent-teacher night, It's almost like you have a life again.

You're wearing your nice shirt. You leave the house after 5 p.m. You're in a building. There's art hanging on the wall. And if you squint, some of it is fine. Plus, let's be. be honest, teachers need this, you guys. This is like the only time they get to talk to other adults. I go in like a public service. How are you? What would you like to talk about? Did you finish

severance? And most importantly, the problems are manageable, which we need nowadays. It feels good, knowing I can easily help my four-year-old color within the border, even though I can't do anything about maniacal tyrants south of the border. Thank you very much. Yeah. Matt Fulf, ladies and gentlemen. Matt Fult on why parent-teacher conferences are important. Now, here to tell us that if she's learned anything,

it's that parent-teacher conferences are useless. Let's hear from Jenny Pugh. As a high school teacher myself, I love working with teenagers. You know, they're curious, full of energy, passion, you know, about what they think they know. I'm sure parents can relate. Where are the parents in the audience? Give us a clap. Yeah, you're the worst part of my job. Not all of you. Some of you are great. You know, some of you're on the ball. You keep the kids. in line and you raise good people. But I could tell you that in an email.

Parent teacher conferences involve scheduling, planning, note preparation, and often parents walk into my office with their hands up. Like, they're already aware that things aren't going well. They're looking at me like, I don't know. I look at my notes, my carefully planned feedback. I'm like, well, let's start with attendance. Haven't seen Kyle in two weeks. Dad's like, Yeah, neither of I. Okay, I guess no news is good news. Keep in touch. Future conferences provide nothing parents don't already know,

because after all, apples and trees. The fatigue of these interviews have me wishing I was back to substitute teaching. Yes, the day-to-day contract work that turns you into a sociopath. Just sitting in the staff room hoping people get sick or injured. Either that or I'm just pacing in the parking lot waiting to Tanya Harding someone. That's it. It is time now for the bare knuckle round. We're debating whether parent-teacher conferences are important.

So put a stew dent in your opponent's logic until it really smarts. Make sure you're excelling your point until it's apparent. Are these puns grading on your nerves? I can feel detention building. So go at each other with grade A plus effort and a touch of class starting now. Okay, firstly, Matt, if you're booking parent-teacher conferences with an educator and you haven't done something wrong, you're about to make your first mistake. I promise you all the information is on that document.

We spend hours creating and preparing so carefully. What's it called? Oh, uh, report card. Right. Listen, okay, fair enough. But even if the report card is bad, I feel like we need to talk in person about it. We need to face these problems head on. We can't just ignore it and hope it goes away like we are with Pierre Pollyev.

Yeah. And I get it. But like, oh, we can do it in an email, do the conference in an email. What does this lead to? Every conference room is now an email room? Huh? Conference calls or email calls? What does that even mean?

You want to do this whole debate over email? That'd be great for the listeners. Wouldn't that be Steve? Don't answer. Send me an email. If parent-teacher conferences are so important and necessary, what about homeschoolers? What's that process like?

No. No. I feel like that it should apply. I still feel like the parent-slash-teacher should stand in front of a mirror and just be like, you're doing a great job. And so are you. Listen, I am not canceling this parent teacher conference. I did a lot of work on that solar system project,

and I want to hear a complimented person. All right. All right. That's the bare no round. We got to the moment of truth, Matt. It's time now for the firing line. In my hand, I have a list of questions on parent-teacher interviews brought to you by the trauma that parents experience

after volunteering at schools. Serious problem, and it's called P-T-A-S-D. KidsHealth.org says at parent-teacher conferences, teachers should always what? Jenny? Taken edible. I'm going to give you a point for that. Matt Fulke.

Determine if the kid's stupidity is genetic. That is pretty good. Teachers should always open with positives. You know, like the original parent teacher conference with Obi-1 Canobi. Yes. And Princess Leia, you're my only hope. I like to be realistic in my interviews. These are holograms, Jenny.

From Star Wars, the original story. I'm a woman. Doesn't seem fair. Well, then you tell her that. In March 2025, why did the Calgary Board of Education move in-person teacher conference to online. Jenny. So both parties can hide their substance abuse.

Matt Falk. It's not true. It's actually so they could debut their brand new super teacher AI. Mr. A.I. I like that. They moved in-person teacher conferences to online due to ongoing labor action. Oh. According to myfamilytime.com, the most important question for parents to ask at a parent-teacher conference is what?

Matt? How does math work? One point. One is just a little more than zero. Okay. Good to know. Let me write that down. Jenny Pugh.

Where did I go wrong? I have to give... I have to give half an official. point for that because the actual answer is, what do you see is my child's strengths and weaknesses? So that is kind of saying that in a different way. I'll tell you the one you shouldn't open with is, is this the school my child goes to? That is the firing line, everybody. Well, we've raced right through this and it's almost time for our fabulous Centerpoint Theater audience here in Ottawa vote. But first, here again to give parent-teacher conferences a severe downgrade,

Let's hear from Jenny Pugh. All right. Well, parent-teacher conferences used to be about providing feedback on student behavior and the quality of their work. But lately, they haven't been necessary. I have countless students nowadays that are smarter than me. They don't need teacher intervention. First name chat, last name, GPT. I mean, Cameron.

His name is Cameron. Sure, I would love to add to my workload to discuss his incitial. six-paragraph essay on women in the workplace. When he misspelled his name last week and referred to maternity leave as pregnancy vacation, please don't put me in the same room as the space cadets that invented this child. Say too.

Okay. Jenny Q. Those stories don't sound made up. Thank you, Jenny. Now, here to once again, tell us why parent-teacher conferences help stoke the burning yearning for learning. Let's hear from proud parent, Matt Falk. Go to a conference if for nothing else to heal the trauma that was caused when you went to school. Because teachers are different today. Guys, they like the kids now.

I was at my kids' assembly halfway through. The principal says, you kids have been sitting a long time. Let's all stand up and let our wiggles out. Are you kidding me right now? Never in my 12-year educational career was it ever even suggested that my wiggles could be anywhere but in.

It's lovely. It's all about positive reinforcement now, because they did a study, and they determined that kids were a lot happier when they weren't unhappy. I'm telling ya, last time I was at a parent-teacher conference, I stole a package of those Gold Star stickers. Ever since, my confidence has been through the roof.

Thank you very much. Matt Buh. Yeah. Proud like that closing argument, buddy, could be the Gold Star you were looking for, it is up to you to vote Ottawa by applause. Who gave Matt's cheerful championing of parent-teacher conferences an A-plus, Matt Fultz? Bottom up for Matt. And who agreed that Jenny's anti-parent teacher conference convo was in a class all its own, Jenny Pugh.

It is pretty close. It's very close. And you know what? I don't have to make a decision. It's inconclusive. We have a tie. A tie. Jenny Pians for Matt Falk and Jenny Pugh, everybody.

Well, that's all for this week. I'm Steve Patterson saying thank you, teachers. If it weren't for you, we'd all be more dumber than we are. I'll argue with you again soon, Canada. Good night. The Debaters is created by Richard Syed. This week's episode was produced by Nicole Callender, Chloe Edbrook, Dean Jenkinson, and Graham Clark.

With continuity by Graham Clark, Diana Francis, and Gary Jones. Technical production by James Pirella and Pascal Jolbin. Story editing by Gary Jones. With special thanks to Katie Ellen Humphreys, David Pride, and Emily Ferrier. Executive producer of CBC Radio Comedy is Lee Pitts. And thanks to everyone at the Meridian Theatre's at Centerpoint in Ottawa. For more CBC podcasts, go to cBC.ca.com.