The Debrief - Grand Or Bland? | The Debrief Podcast

Episode Date: October 6, 2025

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I've got a rebel soul. I've got a rebel soul. Welcome to the deep breathe with your co-host, Kevin McNeil. And your co-host, Kelly Leach. That'll be KM'd, K-L. Yeah. Bada-Boo-A-Boo-Bah-Bum. That's what the dad says, isn't it?

Yeah. Boom. Boom. What's the other thing your dad says that makes me laugh? Boom. He said it when we were at. Pink pal. Yeah, he does.

Pink pal. I'm like, Dad. He's so funny. I actually think his like qualities are like Maiso. Your little sister. Really? Yeah. Like when I spoke to her little sister, I saw a lot of her and your dad.

Oh, yeah. They're quite similar. You guys are quite similar. Yeah. I think everyone is quite similar to my dad except me. I'm similar to my mom. Yeah. Personality-wise.

And that's what we share. When you were younger? Yes. Yeah. I don't think I've ever felt similar to my dad personality-wise. Oh. Not in a bad way. No.

He just sees a shy guy. Just a little babe. He's just, just slow. I think it's quite normal for men to be more shy than women. I think so. I mean, no one quote me on that and no one say that's a statistic because I literally have no idea. I was like, that's literally the biggest piece of shit she's upset. But I feel like I make more.

shy men than I meet shy women. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. And I don't know if this is, but I, I feel like I have more time for shy men than shy women because with shy women, I think they're bitchy. I'm like, why you... It comes off as dismissive. Yeah. Yeah. It comes across as judgmental. So I'm like, why are you judging? And then I get to know that and I'm like, oh, you're so nice or just really quiet. Yeah, yeah. And also I can't really relate to quiet people. I'm like, what can you, are you not bursting to say something? Do you want to give me every single itty-bitty detail of your life? I need to know everything. No, I overshare too much.

Whereas with shy men, I'm like, oh no, like, get yourself involved. Oh, like, sit on my lap. Yeah, yeah. And I also think of my dad, you know, my dad was, he says that he was a really shy child. So I'm always like, and he was like, oh, I get really shy. I was really shy when I was young. So I'm like, oh, but honestly now he's like, my dad is so confident. He doesn't do himself justice.

because he's always like, oh, no, like your mum's way more outgoing than me. Like, I'm like, I don't actually think that's the case. No, he's so outgoing. I think they're pretty well-matched without going. Yeah. And my mum's like me that she can say some outrageous things. And my dad's quite good for putting out those fires. She's like, oh, I'm glad he'll never believe it.

And my dad's like, he's quick with the extinguisher. I know when he says the repeated eyelids, it's not good. He's like, Eileen, no, Eileen. I'm like, okay. Time to hush the moosh. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right, ready for the mantras? Would you like to tell me?

Yeah, my mantra is, I've always been capable. No stress. I'm just a beast. Let's not worry if I'm going to be capable. I've always been capable. Winner, liking Glee. Instead of a loser, winner. Winner.

Winner, winner. Chicken dinner. Beast from Glee. Okay? Massively. I've always been capable. Yeah. I am capable.

I was capable and I will be capable. Born, born capable. Literally, no stress. Don't stress out. No stress at all. What's your mantra? My mantra for this week is, I trust the timing of life. Now, recently I've been, I wouldn't like to say obsessing, but let's say passionate about engagements, okay?

Right. And I just, you know. But, no, that's passion. Yeah, that's passion. That's not obsessant. Yeah. And so all over my TikTok, all over my Pinterest, I'm typing, searching up Harry Winston rings.

Where's the Harry Winston in London? Apparently there's one in Mayfair, fantastic course there is. Also a nice bridge. Yeah, nice. And I've been hamming on about getting engaged. But Archie's reminded me that, darling, it's going to happen. There's no doubt it's. It's happened. It's all about the right time.

Do you think it's because, like, you've had mutuals get engaged? I think so. But then also, like, I will say, it's not like you're single. No. Being like, where's the ring? You'll die at this. It's not as TikTok saying the amount of time you've waited depends on how big the carrot is. And it went up to four years and it was at nine carrot.

And I said, Archie, consider, oh, you're at five in eight or ten? It's 10, 10, 10, 10, and if it's not this year, 9, it's up me, six years. Because my question is, if he actually proposed to you like tomorrow, like, had it all planned, would you actually say yes? Of course, yeah. Yeah, of course. Even though it was against the plan. Of course, because I trust Archie, and I think Archie'd have something up his sleeve. Yeah.

I feel like he'd be like, he doesn't. He doesn't do things without a plan. Yeah. So he, although he's very spontaneous, he thinks forward, so he wouldn't just, oh, fuck it. Yeah, yeah. He'd be like, you know, I'd think,

okay, he's got a secret cabin in the woods that he's sold. Do you what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And also, if he did do the grand gesture, funny, I say that. Yeah. I know he has planned this meticulously.

Yeah. So I wouldn't be like, but what about the plan? I feel like, yes. Yes. Yeah, I don't want to know. But as I said, I trust the timing of life. I know. Okay.

I trust it. Whenever I want to come and I literally like I've made, I do not want to know when Archie's going to do it. I don't, I don't, I don't at all. I think I'd appreciate a text on the day when I know you wouldn't be around being like Katie, today's the day. Today's, so I can mentally prepare. But I think I'd be sick with me.

Would you cry if Archie sent you a text being like, yes. Did I not tell you one time, I was just daydreaming thinking about what I would say at your wedding and I cried. You're going to have to get your speech ready. I saw someone's like, made of honour, like, speech at a wedding. And I thought, my God, what would I say for Kit?

And I thought, oh, my God, I actually can't think about this because I'll cry. Oh, literally, stop trying. And I literally started welling up. And I was like, enough now. Enough of that. Enough of that. And we have to start. Honestly, the day we get engaged, you have to start writing that speech.

I think I'll be really like, what do you mean you're getting engaged with 10? I know. When you guys get engaged, I'll be like, what? I know. This is what I feel like with you, yeah, with you saying, is it because like, a lot of friends, yes, but also when we went to that wedding in July, they felt, they're our age before it sounds patronising, but they felt so young. Yeah.

I was like, don't get me wrong, I cried through the whole service. Well, yeah. But I said to Archie that they felt just so young. And, you know, they're exactly the same age as ours. They were same ages at school, Archie's school. so but it just felt like getting married and that's what arch and i was saying that we were like wow like they felt young yeah it's because they are because they was so young yeah but like when you think about it like my mom my mom and dad got married at 23 and 24 i'm like i'm 24 shit i think my dad got

married at 24 yeah he did insane insane yeah yeah i'm like oh yeah oh yeah songs yeah so my song for this week is spider slowly young can you listen to it yet it's brilliant it's brilliant it's really the lyrics are just beautiful and there's this one that she says she's posted about it on instagram saying it's not a lot in your life that there's something that you're like really really proud of but this is one of her and there's a lyric that she keeps it's lovely let me find this she's clearly had heartbreak yeah and it's all it's all very you know metaphor which I love. She's like, please kill all the spiders

because they're not room with them. I can't sleep beside you. Don't say, don't say a lie because I'll see the truth behind your dark brown eyes and then the empty me right to the court and suck me dry, suck me dry like you did before. I know. My favourite is I'm not a woman if I don't have you

and you're not a man if you don't have me. How lovely is that? I'm like, well, who is this person that she fell in love with? I'm like getting obsessed. Although, did you see she posted an Instagram with Elton John? Yeah, I'm iconic. I love El. I'd love to meet Elton John.

You can never know what it's like. Right, tell me what your song is. Right, my song is, I'm going down, I'm going down. I'm going down Mary J. Blige, right? Okay, okay. I forgot, I forgot how much I fucking love that song. They did it on smash. They did it on smash and it literally came.

I updated my phone to the new iOS, which, guys, don't do it. I hate it. Really? I hate it. It's horrible. I miss the old one. Oh, no. But the fun feature is, it's got this, like, DJ feature on Apple Music where it starts, like, auto

playing, but it merges them in together. So I was listening to a song. And then I'm going down when Mary J. Blyge came on. And I was like, I fucking love this song. No, it like blends up. Seamelessly. Interesting. I know, very interesting.

But it's a great song. Yeah. It's a proper singing the shower song. I've got to give that a little listen. It's fabulous. Are you ready for record? Recommendation. This week, guys, I went to see the play that goes wrong.

Oh my God, did you? Is it good? I did. I had a right old chuckle. Is it good? I would recommend it to anyone. Okay. I honestly think it's so.

fun, cute little date night. Oh. I think it's honestly... No, really cheap. I did get mine for free. However, ticket's very cheap. Yeah, okay. I think it's worth it.

You're in Covent Garden, go for nice dinner. Oh, nice. Go see your... And it's a comedy as well. Yeah, that's always nice. It's a comedy. Nice to do during the week, actually. Yeah.

So, and it's so fun like to do in the week. I did it in the week. And I was like, this is breaking up my week nicely. Yeah, nice, nice. And especially having a bit of comedy it's like oh and it's fun as well when i'm like we live in london i could go see some of the best theater yeah that the world has to offer i know i know i know i know it's like do it let's do it yeah

don't worry about feeling tired before don't worry about feeling tired next morning just do it life's too short enjoy it literally right shall we let's do brave tell me this week we're talking all things grand gestures so for forgiveness for laugh or just for the fucking thrill right love it that was amazing i think yeah we find grand gestures could often be in a make it or break it situation but my question is have you ever made a grand gesture yourself or what is the best grand gesture you've ever received grand gesture Well, I've done really big grand gestures in the sense of when Archie raised all that money for mental health.

Yeah. It took me weeks, but I put together that film of all his friends, all his family and my family. God bless you, like, when you said you were going to edit the video and I was like, I can do it for you if you'd like, and you were like, no, I'm going to do this. I was like, right. And that really stressed me out. I was so proud of him that I was like, this can't just be a cheers at the pub. Yeah.

So I invited everyone over to the house to surprise him as well, so he didn't know. And then I got all the flat, his best friends, his family, my family, his extended family, like his granny, all of that, to do videos to say how proud of him they were, as well as include clips of him doing the running with everyone that he's done the run with, as well as he always did. What were they called?

Mo Mom moments. He made these things called. moments where what people found helps them with like their daily mental health with their happiness and I included all of them and included and then I bought a projector and projected it on the wall in the flat and that was like a really big thing I mean I'm so stressed out like I don't know how men cope with proposing I felt like I was proposing but I was stressed for you pulling off that surprise texting people like no one said anything like I was so like all of that but I was so

proud of him like a thing like that was probably because you know like I've taken archie to Paris you know without him knowing yeah yeah yeah without him knowing all those kind of things which is amazing and we had the most amazing time but I actually felt as a grand gesture yeah this was more like because he was completely not expecting it yeah and with like doing when we did like Paris and when we did Venice when I organized it for him I was like nervous but I knew he'd love it whereas with this So Archie doesn't like the attention. So, like, especially with things like that, he can get a bit like, oh, God.

So I was so nervous. But that was probably a time I've made the biggest grand gesture, I would say. That was sweet. There was a time when my ex-boyfriend, when he had an issue with Archie, he did the grand gesture or grand sacrifice of saying, you will not be in contact with him anymore. It's basically. And I was like, well, I will be.

So I think things like that where someone has said to me, it's like the ultimatum. How about you? Have you done grand gestures or had a grand gesture? No, I honestly don't think I've... Actually, well, funnily enough, the one thing, and it's a platonic thing, when you did that picnic, that was a really grand gesture.

Oh my God, that was so much fun. That was a really grand gesture. I made this sign for Katie. It was so sweet. And it said, we love you, Katie. And then it had these photos of her as a baby outside. And then I made these... cut out faces that we all held in front of our face of Casey,

and it was her headshot. I was like, I'm not actually skiing, like, I'm not going to be a match hat. It used to be the best mode to walk the head. So I literally went on just about like, scree shots to try her job. And then like, literally edited them. And then we had a picnic and I invited all your favourite people.

It was so nice. And that was when you were going through like a tough time. So I was like, you need a picnic. It was really sweet. And like, no man has ever made such a grand gesture. Oh, darn it. And they will. And they were bar beloved.

I tell you, when you get engaged, I'll want to know. I will want her to know. Oh, yeah, you couldn't hold you at more than I can. I will want him to be like, what does Katie want? Bigger. I can't. Bigger, better. Yeah, bigger.

Again. She said something demure. She didn't. She didn't mean that. He's like, Kitty for you. Okay. Okay. Right.

Are we ready? I'm ready. So, Dialema. Yeah. Hi, girls, I really need your opinion. Okay. My boyfriend and I have been together for a few months and always joke how I'm the high maintenance one,

whereas he's way more type B and low maintenance. Okay. And I'm finding now that recently we're starting to clash slightly on what we deem a romantic gesture. Okay. Girls, I find that getting your partner flowers is a lovely gesture, but not necessarily a grand one. I love this, car.

I'm iconic. Whereas my boyfriend will only get flowers if I ask or if we've argued, which is slightly upsetting to me. He does so much for me in the day and I do feel slightly ungrateful that I should ask for bigger gestures of care. He's just not the most words of affirmation kind of guy and I'm often questioning where we stand. Look, I'm not asking for the five-star treatment, but just little signs that he's taken the time to think and care about me. I don't know, girls, am I asking too much? Okay, first thing, coming from a girl whose partner, Art, is very much acts of service. Don't get me on, love it.

That's very nice. That's not how I feel loved. Yeah. Great. That's great for Arj. That's not how I feel loved. You are allowed to be wanting to be loved differently than the way he shows you. Yeah.

What you're doing is great is that you're showing acknowledgement that what he is doing, you're like, thank you. appreciate that. Oh, that's so nice. Blah, blah, blah, blah. I actually, I would love to know if you have, and if you haven't, then you need to do it, if you've chatted about love languages. Yeah. Five language, love languages.

Words about, actually, she knows words of affirmation, so I wonder if she knows about it, but talk about it with your boyfriend. Words of affirmation, gift giving, quality time, physical touch, and acts of service. Yeah. Those are the five love languages. Yeah.

Now, what you give, to what you receive is very different. Yeah, absolutely. For example, even with friendships. Yeah. For example, what I give naturally is words of affirmation. Yeah. That comes very natural to me.

I'm really happy to give that to friends, to reassure them, to make them feel safe, to make them feel love, to make them feel happy about themselves, proud, all of that kind of stuff. But what I want to receive from Archie is usually quality time. Mm-hmm. However, what I want to see from friends is words of affirmation.

Yeah. Now, you need to establish that with your boyfriend because what it sounds like is that he is at acts of service. Yes. That's fantastic. But that's not how I feel loved either. No. Don't get me wrong.

I love a gift. And when I absolutely love a gift. And now I'm not saying, always get me a Cartier bracelet. Yeah. I'm not saying Archie once wrote a jar of all the things he loved about me. That was lovely. Yeah. Little things like that.

And I think this is what this is what this girl means. I think the fact that I think you need to remind him that it's not a superficial or materialistic thing because it's so real and it's so important. And if you're like, I don't even want gifts, I want words of affirmation. You need to tell him this and you need to express that. But in a really calm, relaxed way,

like with the quality time, that's what I want from Archie. So that's why we have date night every Tuesday night. Yeah. And we ying and yang. So one week he does it. Yeah. And for example, we've done things like we go to a show we go to see a show to other things like baking

banana bread to other things like painting pumpkins so sweet to other things like going to the cinema so it's you know it's never we're going out to michigan star restaurants it's literally like quality time yeah sometimes we go out last week we went to a pub yeah you know just the two of us it's about something just the two of you yeah what i do not like is that the flowers are there for when he's done something no i don't like that gills you so too also i'm sorry you can go O2, Sainsbury's, Tascos, they could be six pounds. A small, a small bit of flowers, six pounds. Yeah. There's no, look, I know I do get a princess treatment with things,

but Archie never lets that vase in my room go empty. I know. It's always topped up. Yeah. Okay. I think, and look, it's not about, oh, you went to the best florist and got me hydrangeas and peonies. No. Sometimes it's the most beautiful flowers.

And I don't even forget, I don't even realize it. And they'll just come back and they've been changed or he comes back and I'm like, oh, that is so nice. And he does that because he knows I love that. Yes. And that's what you need to tell to your boyfriend. Exactly. Tell him, because men need their ego fluff. Tell him that you love what, if he's, I don't know what he's doing if he's washing his skitties or if he's, thank you for washing my skitties.

I love that. Thank you so much. I love that you do my washing, so I don't have to do it. Yeah. You are not being treated like a princess if your skidies are washed. No. You can be grateful. Yeah.

And you don't need to say it like I just said it, but thank you so much. But you can ask for flowers. Absolutely. And you shouldn't have to be reminding him. Can I have flowers? Ooh. And look, I know I'm, I love the treatment from March. I'm not saying you need it every week.

But monthly, yes. Yeah. I'm sorry. Yeah. We'll stick behind that. Yeah, exactly. Good luck, my love. And I've got your back.

You've got this. Are you ready? I've got one. I've got one. Okay, I'll ping pong you. Okay. It's similar to what we've just said, but overcompensating for bad behaviour.

So when I don't appreciate a grand gesture is if someone's fucked me off. And then they start groveling. And they're like, and I've put this. You should have shown me that energy from the start. I have that issue where, like, I have a friend that, you know, that if they've upset me,

Or they know they've crossed the line. They never apologize. They just start fucking brown nosing. Oh. So tell me, like, tell me how are you feeling about, like, everything going on in your life? I'm like, don't behave like this. This is what I can't deal with. I'd literally rather you say.

And do you know that other person? Yeah. That really, really did want me. Yeah. And then starts doing something else like this grand gesture. I'm like, I don't want the grand gesture. No. An apology would fit really nice.

just say sorry don't start don't start taking an unprecedented amount of interest in my life that you've never had before exclusively after we argue and it's it's also so fake i'm like i can see through this yeah i'm like you think i don't know you well enough i can see through this so much like come on now yeah come on now relax iick yeah mine is quite personal to me yeah public gestures oh no Oh, let's keep it behind closed doors, people. Oh, God, really. And this is just a personal one to me when I was thinking about gestures. And I thought, I think often about glee when they sing to each other.

And I thought, if someone ever did that to me, I would throw myself into the road. Yeah, yeah, okay. But I would think if maybe, maybe this will all change when I'm in a relationship. Yeah. Maybe the gods will laugh on me, be like, ha, ha, ha, so I'll love the PDA. Yeah. Or I'll love running up to me at a train station with flowers in hand. That I'm not really...

I'd be like, ooh. But you know what's funny is I hated that before Arch. And you can vouch for that. I was like, ugh. Yeah, maybe, maybe I'll change. Maybe. Maybe. But then there are so many couples that are like so madly enough that they're like,

that's not offing. That's not. Which is so normal, actually. It's really weird because I'm still trying to figure out whether I would be the kind in a relationship that people would be like, are they together? Or I would be like, yeah. Yeah.

Where they're like, oh, they're together. They're the nicest couple we know. You just would not think they were together. She's such a boy's girl. He's such a girl's boy. So they're like socialising all the time. I never see them come together on a night out. And they're like, I only know because they leave together.

Not because they're flirty. No, no, not in the sense of like. Not at all. They're just not like. Hi, you're right. I've got you a drink. Give me a kiss you. How are you doing? Never. They're always separate on nights out. Never.

But I'm like, I don't know whether I'd be that person. I could see you like that. Or is Katie actually with him? He'd come in for a kiss and you're like, don't, not in public. Enough. At home. Yeah, at home later. Or if I'd be like Archie, who's like a koala to you sometimes. So I'm like, I don't know.

I love that. I just don't know. It will be so interesting when you have your boy. And we'll see that change. I know. And also it might change. You know, your boy might be like Arch when he's like obsessed with you. Yeah.

I want to like be attached to you. And then you could be like me that you take a back seat. He secretly love it. Yeah. Oh, he could be, you might be the same. You both be like, oh, that's like, you know that friends we've got? Yeah.

They're not overly PDA, but they're holding hands and they're right. I love that. I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it. That's sweet.

I love it. Yeah. So I could see you doing that potentially. ready for questions yeah you are serious yes you are and i am silly okay right my serious question is yeah genuinely seriously would you rather never get words of affirmation ever again or gifts oh my god from archie this is the The hardest question you've ever asked, Mel. Oh my God, I actually don't know.

I think I'll know what you might pick. I live for words of affirmation. But does this mean I won't get an engagement ring? Well, exactly. I can't live like that. The thing is, Arch and I played the game the other day of what would you do with five minutes? This was our last date night. If you had five million pounds, how would you do it?

So we both divied it, like, wrote down. Fabulous. We didn't just say, oh, I'd spend a bit to the 500,000 point. Oh, hilarious. Like that. Notchie said he'd buy me two Birkins if he had five mil, which I was a fan. As well as a car, which was fantastic, he'd buy three properties. Yeah.

Now, if I'm not getting any hurt. What's the point? The life is the house to live. No, Birken. Here's my theory, though. You could get words of affirmation off. any Tom Dick or Harry. That's true.

Whereas I'm not going to buy your car. No, no, no. All engagement. I love the master. I'm not buying your car. I'm not buying your car. I'm not buying your car. You know, so, you know, it's hard to weigh up.

And also, a lot of the time, Archie is massive and words of affirmation. Like, hello, sexy. I'm like, wow. But it's the physical touch as well. Well, and he's like, wow. Yeah. And then gives me a kiss.

I think I could get kids. I'm taking gifts. If she's around, words of affirmation. Yeah, yeah. Okay, my silly question for you. Yeah. Is to do with grand gestures. You're in a long-term relationship with the love of your life,

all of this kind of stuff. But your boyfriend refuses to propose. He's like, I really want to get married, Katie. I really want to get married. And you're like, oh. And he's like, but you will propose to me. Oh, fuck. He's like the biggest grand gesture.

Like, let's say he's very big on grand gestures. Yeah. Always takes you off to trips. He's taking you recently to Paris. Yeah. He's taking you to South Africa. Yeah. He's even got you a beautiful engagement ring.

And he says, I can't wait to give you your engagement ring. This huge rock from Harry Winston. I can't wait to give us to you. But I want you to do this for me. I always do the grandchild. I want you to do this. Would you? Yeah.

Okay. I would. I would. Oh, Katie. I would. Oh, you're happy. I'm so lovely. No, I think that's fine.

If he was like very genuinely like, I've got it, I want to give it to you, but like I would actually, it would mean a lot if you showed how you felt, because probably me, I'm like, I fucking hate you. Yeah. I'm probably giving nothing. Like, just Katie hate me? Like, no, she actually breaks up. She's absolutely in love with you.

She actually loves you about you, but she's just cause of cute. She's just overcorrected. They'll see you with me and her black. I'm not moving moment. She shows more to you. And I'm like, yeah, I'm like... Yeah, that's taking years. Yes. Yes. Yes. I used to not be able to even give her a hug. Yeah. I was like, you'll get by, you'll get by. Yeah. So you'd be like, yeah. Yeah, I would. But it would be...

It would be a great one. It would be brief, though. Yeah, absolutely. And then you can get your off. I wouldn't kneel either. You're not kneeling, Katie. You're not neatly. No. But I think I'd get quite a lot of anxiety about it. If you were coming to me, like, I need to propose, I'd be like, Katie, this is scary. Oh, completely spoiled that. Do I have to get him a ring then?

Like, that's... No, he doesn't. This is what I said to watch you. I said, you're not having an engagement ring. And I said, no. I said, so what should I get you? An electric bike? I was like, what do I get you inside?

A year past alive? Because I was like, a car not. She was like, I don't drive. I was like, brilliant. Right. Right. I could get him a car that you can't drive that you could. That I could.

So get yourself a car. I could get myself a car, but make it a grand gesture. Yeah, big time. Number plate. Arch. But Mama drives. But you drive. Yeah, exactly.

Rubber is behind the way. All right, guys. We love you so much. Have a great week. We love you. We love you. Bye. I've got a ramble soul