The Debrief - Mothering Monday ft. Eileen McNeill | The Debrief Podcast

Episode Date: March 4, 2024

Happy Monday Debriefers!In this very special mother's day episode we are joined by mother of The Debrief Eileen McNeill! Together we discuss all things Mothers Day and take a walk down memory lane to Mothers Day past. We hope you enjoy, we had the best time recording this one for you guys!As always DM us @the.debriefpodcast or email: [e-mail] with any debriefs or dilemmas. Have a great week! K+K x Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

i've got a rebel soul it's monday happy monday happy monday bitches happy monday bitches how are we feeling oh i'm great i'm really good yeah i've had a nice weekend but the hay fever's kicking in oh spring has sprung oh spring spring is like big time yeah drippy nose couldn't sleep eyeballs twitching like i'm i'm in the swing of it not happy not not a happy clam right now looking up injections for hay fever i was in the hay fever's number one enemy oh i yeah i actually am and i know it's february actually does this come out in march comes out in march i know it's march i know it's much but i get it so early i genuinely get it and i was

saying actually it's been quite windy recently i'm like old man yella i'm like the wind has been quite bad recently so and it picks up the pollen yeah it does doesn't it so that's there's your answer how are you feeling this week i'm feeling fabulous yeah busy week i'm feeling i'm feeling good it's a more chilled week this week which i'm loving actually you had some great drama last week there's nothing better than boy drama i love it nothing better than boy job i love it you know the best bit is when you tell a story or you're continuing a story with a friend and it's the exact same story you just add one little thing in and all of a sudden it needs to be dissected again oh oh every single time it's just like one thing and it's like shit i'm like actually i remember he looked at me more than once actually at this point so let's sit back down and

when he moved his hair it was like a whole oh there was there was tone behind that okay so we've got an exciting episode let's crack on let's tell me your mantra for this week my mantra is yeah mother knows best oh yeah mother knows best she does mother knows best listen to your mum's ear so obviously guys it is mother's day this weekend mother's day on sunday so make sure you get the cards mothering sunday yeah yeah guys remember make sure you celebrate it in whatever way you can yes absolutely whether that's just remembering a lovely memory yeah or just make sure you remember it absolutely yeah my mantra is no matter what age I'll always need my mum and it's actually just so true like I literally I remember when we first went to Mountview and I thought I was the or. I was like, okay, I'm not the Oracle.

Oh, Big Chief. Big Chief. Slick Rick. Slick Rick. I've got it now, I've got it. I was like, you can all leave me. I was like, I've got it. No.

I was just genuinely like, oh my God, there are fit people around. What do I do? I was like, I've got an STD. Do I shag them then? Or no? Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no, no. Not STD, STI. No, STI.

No, UTI. UTI. This is why I need my mum. Oh my God, that's so. STD. No. std no no okay just for clarification down the camera never had an std not that there's any shame but i just haven't yeah um okay tell me your song my song is queen by jesse. Oh. I love my body. I love my skin. Oh, lovely. I am a goddess. I am a queen.

I love it. Yes. And I love it. Put a bit of the anthem on this. Empowering. Lovely. Feminine anthem. Oh, there's nothing better than like a feminine, empowering anthem that you feel is in your

body. Yeah. Yeah. Where it recognises all your body does for you. Yeah. And on the subject of Mother's Day, birthing a child that's no great you serious no no are you joking me wild that actually terrifies me like genuinely like i stay up at night like laughing like that shit is scary okay so my mum my mum my song my mum my song is mama do the hump by rizzle cake that and it's got to be a dedication to my own mum's aid because she loves this i knew and think it's a banger

and it is a banger it's such a good tune that had a choke hold on me let's do our recommendation yes you're ready recommendations okay guys so recommendation this week is all of the bonus because they have the greatest mother's day cards they do they're just so good so if you're thinking oh god i don't know where to get a mother's day card make sure you go to all of them ob ob one of our friends would say ob ob so make sure you go okay so should we get into it let's get into it let's get into it yeah so we would like to introduce our very special guest for this week which is mother's day on sunday yeah and the guest is the mother in fact my mother here she is turn to the left i'm mcneil

welcome to the debrief podcast how are you feeling oh my goodness i think it was feeling all right until i've heard you girls sort of starting it off now i'm terrified we are so excited kicked in now it can be like that though it always feels like oh gosh i mean we feel it we had it on a guest last week and you feel so much pressure you think all right we've got to be good we've got to and at the end of the day it's a conversation and it's fun and that's what a podcast is all about I like that be gentle girls so we've Mother's Days on Sunday which is really lovely but we just wanted to say before

we get into it that Mother's day is a very special time to recognize your relationship with your mother and and there are points that people in their life unfortunately aren't as fortunate to celebrate it with their mum for all different reasons um and we just wanted to recognize that that we are in a fortunate position where I can spend it with my lovely mum and your lovely mum yeah and but some people have gone through a lot where that's not possible um so we just wanted to reach out and say that um we hope you're okay yeah and that um mother's day is still special for you yeah treat yourself with kindness yes yeah yes make sure really beautifully said yeah because yeah unfortunately for some mums or some women generally mother's day can be the saddest day of the year. Yeah, it definitely can be.

Really well sad. So I hope that everyone takes the time to just feel that whatever situation they are in, that they are still willing to be able to celebrate that time. Yeah, absolutely. Okay, are you ready to go into debriefing? I think so. Okay. Let's debrief! Fantastic. Fantastic. Okay, so let's debrief fantastic fantastic okay so let's start off okay um so before we get into it

contrary to popular belief mother's day has only been celebrated for the last 117 years since 1907 um anna jarvis held the first mother's day service of worship in west virginia so for a long time this whole mother's day thing was not celebrated the cars weren't in you know tesco's i wonder whereas now it is such a significant thing it's a really big holiday that is celebrated and how do you feel about that do you love the holiday do you enjoy it yeah I do you know I've celebrated Mother's Day for 23 years now and you know I do I do love it yeah it also for me heralds the start of spring you know it's true yeah okay so it's time to sort of get the the black and dark clothes pushed to the back of the wardrobe and nice bright clothes but you know I'll be wearing on Sunday um yeah so I do I do

love it I've always loved Mother's Day it's a really special time and at the end of the day we all have mums and so it's lovely to be able to you know reflect back and recognize that and feel gratitude and slightly humbled by it but I do love it i love having this all together for mother's day oh that's really nice yeah so nice i think it is such a a holiday that can be you know overlooked oh what you do for months oh nothing just sent a card but actually you know it should be celebrated and it should be recognized whether that is simply yes you should yeah you squeeze two people out you can celebrate whatever you damn want honestly thank you yeah yeah no you go mummy i've got you i've got you

on mother's day lots of people can get it wrong and we wanted to hear from the horse's mouth how you can do mother's day to the best you possibly can yeah so for mother's day people say oh i never send a card or i don't send flowers on mother's day what do mothers want slash expect what would be the ideal wow dream day she's like holiday i'm like i wake up in the moldies in my dream but the reality no that doesn't happen. I think three things for me, definitely card flowers and having a beautiful lunch. But having that sentimental card is absolutely the top thing for me.

I mean, we are such a big family of cards anyway, don't we? We love our cards. Oh, you do. We do. In fact, with our cards, we read them out to each other. Oh, yes. Do you? We do. Oh, fact with our cards we read them out to each other oh yes do you oh my gosh poor Archie's happy he's getting used to it Archie shits himself because he knows that if there's an event he has to give a card and we will all read it out to each other oh my god I

love it picking up Archie's card oh thank you started reading and he's no honestly I love it I'd never met someone who's who'd written such long detailed cards until i met you oh yeah yeah and you love it well you know what it's like in the mcneil household it's not just about the card it's about the competition it's a competition as well they're the defo winners yeah you know if you can write that beautiful sentimental card and make that person weep yes then you won yeah ideally yeah and you've done it well so we love that so that sentimental card okay i just love that i really do um and then i love flowers don't i yeah what are your favorites for when i think of mother's day i think of tulips even

though i think carnations are supposed to be an official flower for mother's day but i didn't know that yeah but i well it is in australia yeah okay a red carnation which red over here tends to signify more romantic yeah yeah i didn't know, but a red carnation is a Mother's Day thing back in Australia. It's a different time of year as well, of course. Well, I've been told. I've never got a fucking carnation, have I? I'm seeing myself now, yeah. And what's that want slash expectation?

What's the difference between that? So the want is I'd love a car and I'd love the flowers. Is there an expectation? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Good, good yeah I'd be so upset you know of course there's going to be times when we're not going to be able to be together for for Mother's Day for whatever reason but unless you've broken both your arms you know I'd really like to have that card you can send a card you can send a card yeah because I think as well it's the whole you know some mothers say oh don't send me anything even with birthday yeah no no card no anything

and I think even if your mum says no nothing a card yeah just a card can do anything yeah yeah canvas there to write whatever you want to on that card, and I love that. Sadly, your mum has passed, but when, and your mum lived in Australia, so there was that big difference. Did you send her a card every Mother's Day then? I did, I mean, but I've also got to admit that I would forget a couple of times because it's a different kind of year. You know, in Australia, we follow the American Mother's Day date, which is in May.

So it's towards the end of May. So it's autumn time. And when I first moved, I forgot. But I've also used to send Mother's Day out of the blue in March. Yep. So, you know. An early one. An early Mother's Day.

But, yeah, so I did used to. an early one but yeah so I did used to I mean when we were kids I talked to my sister about this recently and she can remember as well it was always a big thing in schools having to get you to make your Mother's Day cards oh my gosh yes you would too

yeah and I mean I have kept at home every single Mother's Day card you have ever given me. And every Christmas card, I've got them all. And looking back at those little ones that you have to, you know, make in school, I've still got those. And I remember doing that for my own mum too. I think it's special as well, because as we touched on earlier, some people either financially just can't or they're too young to you know and even with divorced parents that can be difficult if the dad hasn't reminded you and you know as children

that's really difficult so when schools pick that up that's a great way of doing it yeah but the other thing that it's hard to say I expect but I really love is the Christmas is the Mother's Day lunch okay yeah and it is always beautiful because I book it myself yeah she does you don't need certain things you don't leave to chance so I do that myself fantastic absolutely I mean that's a wonderful thing I love just getting together and having a lovely lunch somewhere and chewing the fat. It's always emotional stuff, talking about matters of the heart, how the year has been. Yeah.

And then when you were very little, of course, it wasn't so much that. It was a day trip. Yeah. Going out for Mother's Day, whether it was... Oh, really? Oh, yeah. Can you remember Hesketh Farm near Bolton Abbey? Remember going there for one Mother's Day.

Oh, with all the guinea pigs and stuff. Paddling the guinea pigs. Yes. Yes, I do remember that. Or going to Fountains Abbey or going to Betty's. You've gone to Betty's in the Rock and Harrow games. I love a Betty's. Can I ask though, because obviously when we were younger,

it was so much more accessible. You know, we'd lived with you. So if mum and dad had planned a day trip you were going on the day trip but now Lil and I are both you know spreading our wings and we're both living in London is that very it does it make it more special yeah celebrating it now that you've come home and it's okay we get this time together. It is just special on a different level. All through your ages when you're wee babbies to, you know, toddlers and at school. And now this stage, I'm still learning as I go too at this stage,

don't forget. You know, I'm sort of finding my feet. What is it like to be a mum with an empty nest? Yeah. And really we haven't had many Mother's Days with you girls away. Yeah. And the only Mother's Day we've never celebrated together, Kitty, was last year.

Can you remember where we were? I'll give you a hint. Oh. Three of us were together. You too, Katie. Oh. We were in bloody Barcelona. The boys were doing the marathon. Oh, my gosh. Yes. It was Mother's Day. Oh. We were in bloody Barcelona. The boys were doing the marathon.

Oh, my gosh. It was Mother's Day. Oh, my gosh. Of course it was. Yeah. Oh, wow. And I brought the card with me, I remember. Yeah.

And Lily couldn't be there. I can't remember why she couldn't come to Barcelona. But, yeah, so she wasn't there. And then the actual Mother's Day on the Sunday after the marathon, we had probably Archie would have organised that gorgeous place for lunch. Lovely place. You'd had a touch of the old food poisoning from that frozen pizza. Oh my God, yeah.

I was spewing blood. Yeah, I was not enjoying that. That was not good. No. Yeah. So that's the only one that we haven't really celebrated. But I do, yeah yeah i do still like the thought if i can imagine just dropping some hints now yeah spa day yeah something like that

would be nice you know things that are a little bit more mature yeah i suppose completely looking forward to that yeah that's lovely so if it was ever the case that you couldn't celebrate mother's day with your kids would you still want the expectation to celebrate the day fully so you get your husband on it to book the lunch oh yeah get your appreciation oh yeah definitely and i think um you know having you at your partner your hubby involved with mother's day and showing that appreciation going through all the memories of what you've shared together. And, you know, when you were very little, I suppose it's similar in the sense that you were there, but you weren't.

Yeah. Fraser would, you know, your dad would always make sure, let me have a sleep in, bring in breakfast. Oh, that's nice. Bring the little ease in and then we we'd organize something but you know then as you're getting older and i'm as i said before i'm sure there's going to be times where we're not all going to be together um for mother's day i would hope that and i know your dad is a sentimental man and he would still mark that occasion yeah just to remember you know and we have a lot of them we have a lot of younger

listeners in their 20s early 20s mid 20s late 20s and stereotypically that's um the time where you meet someone that you fall in love with and that's typically the time you fall pregnant and you know not for everyone um but if you're fortunate enough that is the case yeah is what advice would you give to those women um with being young mums and just having babies would you say make sure you do celebrate it with your husband you know even if your babies can't you know they're too young to yeah would you make sure of that oh absolutely you know it why wouldn't you yeah why wouldn't you want to do that um it's such an incredible power that a woman has it's the epicenter of our power isn't it to be a mother yeah not all women can but bloody

hell if you if you are lucky enough to be pregnant and and have a baby and if you're lucky enough to have your partner or husband there with you yeah celebrate that you know it uh it's it's special it needs to be kept special you know that during that early period it's pretty scary yeah yeah pregnant yeah i'm sure and you you know you and your partner are generally going through all those little fears yeah at the same time it's so different you know motherhood even before it happens and what's going on in your mind compared to what goes on in your mind after you've had a baby and a second that all changes too because I think you know as a young woman when you're pregnant um I certainly was thinking more about how is this affecting my body how do i look stretch my feel your boobs getting bigger

is he still gonna fancy me yeah well i think that is a fear yeah especially for young women yeah absolutely and it's real and it sounds superficial and vain but i mean we talk about it you know yeah at this age your body is your weapon it's scary you know and in so many ways you know how you hold yourself with your partner with the clothes you wear yes your weapon it's scary you know and in so many ways you know how you hold yourself with your partner with the clothes you wear yes but but it's not just that it's then feeling you're maybe not attached to that power anymore so i think when we talk about it and say oh my god i'd be terrified yes you know they even had this thing on them that came on the kardashians which we do laugh about and courtney has a stretch mark and Kim loses it she's like Courtney

oh my god you've got a stretch she's like I'm dying for you you know and we've spoken about it and be like we'd be the same we've got oh my god you know but I guess as a mother who's gone through it and you come out the other end I'm sure you're like oh gosh that's such a minimal fear but at the time it feels huge yeah that is such a major change yes yeah absolutely yeah and then before it's straight after that I think your your mind changes from all of that personal body image changes yeah to shit this is gonna hurt isn't it you know birthing of this child starts to you start to really get into that yeah side of it think this is a bit scary yeah and and I think that's when your mums can help out yes you know you're lucky enough to

still have your mum around yeah who can give you that advice and your your sisters or close friends who've gone through it um but everyone's experience is different anyway having a baby yeah um but it's a real fear and you will you will be wondering yeah you just have to reassure yourself that there are billions of mums out there who've had their babies you know and you'll do it too you know did you feel those maternal instincts kick in as soon as you were pregnant or was it as soon as you had your babbies oh wow that's a really good question um nice one yeah yeah not just a hat yeah yeah yeah because you know when I was a young woman I didn't really have very strong maternal feelings I didn't really have a lot of longing for children. But because I'd left things a bit late in the sense of I was concentrating on my career and travelling and life experiences and everything else, had loads of relationships.

But it really wasn't until I met Fraser at 28 and fell in love that I thought that I even started thinking about that yeah and we married five years after that and then four years after that so by then I would have been you know mid-30s and I was thinking well actually late 30s let's be honest sugar coating it now yeah the listeners will do the math again but I was thinking these ovaries are going to be shriveling up if I don't you know you know so much maternal longing yeah yeah you know yeah it was that body yeah yeah and that body clock kicking in was more um more of something that was that I thought about yeah it's weird than thinking I want a child it was what if I can't have a child yeah interesting yeah really really strange you know recently Arch and I watch Handmaid's Tale we love it absolutely love it and recently we saw it at the opera they did an opera of Handmaid's Tale and we watched The Final Night

oh I haven't even asked you about that. Oh, it was fantastic. And obviously, the people that don't know Margaret Atwood's book, I would highly recommend reading it and also seeing the series. But it's all about going back to traditional ways of living and that women purely are for bringing life into the world. Yes, it's nothing else other than that and that is their job. And although it's highly um diminishing of a woman's worth it really does make you look at yourself and think gosh that is what

originally we were here to do is reproduce you know and and how scary that when that power's taken away from you yes well then you've you must feel really you must question yourself yeah and that is hard so I'm sure you did feel of the the nature of but what what happens if I can't and we are lucky enough in this day and age that there are so many options oh so many options and you can be a mum it doesn't have to be and whether it's not biologically yours you're still a mother yes yeah um but you know years ago that that wasn't an option and that is scary yeah really scary um so my question is obviously it took you 38 was it 38 when you had yeah i was 37 with lily 38 with you okay yeah so did it take up to that point to feel i want kids or was it when you met the person that

you'd like to have kids with because you weren't originally you'd be very honest you'd be honest okay because there are a lot of people out there that will want to know for themselves i i still even though i was madly in love and still am with your dad I still didn't have a maternal longing at that stage even though I knew I was in love with him yeah um but even when we decided that okay look if we're going to have children we should probably crack on a bit because you know we may not be able to yeah it was it was along those lines yeah um and uh it was quite funny really because once we made that decision oh let's you know let's try if it doesn't happen it doesn't matter and that was our mentality it wasn't a desperation to have children yeah okay

um let's let's give it a go let's do it it's all a bit scary but let's give it a go and I remember it was Easter and we met up with some friends of ours yeah um we were living in we went back to Adelaide I'd been working in Sydney for years but we went back to Adelaide um on this particular weekend was Easter we flew back because I had work and we made the most of the weekend met up with Craig now he was a guy that I did a lot of travelling with in my, you know, sort of 20s, early 20s. Here he was, married with three children. Wow, how interesting. Yeah, and it was a bloody awful weekend.

So Craig out there, you can have a shocker. Oh my God, it was a shock to see him with these three little children running around. And it was like, are you going to look at me when we talk? I'm trying to have a conversation with you. He's distracted by these little beings running around. I had no understanding and appreciation of that. And it really pissed me off.

Isn't that awful? No. And after that weekend your dad and I said should we leave another year so you know so I thought I'll go back on the pill well the interesting thing I know but the amazing thing is that i actually conceived lily that weekend that isn't that wild it's like you know the universe universe stepped in the universe and it was almost like um oh god how are they doing that and god's like well let's see you have a go yeah and you know the other incredible thing is um finding out i was pregnant

so quite a few weeks later was mother's day i got goosebumps yeah no way it was mother's day 2000 the old dipstick and everything. And we're going, oh, my God. Actually, I used a different word. And it was rather shocking. And we got so excited and terrified at the same time. Where we were living in Adelaide, there was a small, really beautiful maternity hospital

around the corner from us called The Calvary. Kitty's actually a Calvary cutie. Just getting it out there. So is Lily. She's a Calvary cutie I am Lily she's a Calvary cutie on my CV oh yeah and let's go and I don't know why we did that let's go and have a look in the maternity hospital we talked earlier about I don't think I've made that connection yet to birthing and all of that I shouldn't have done it the mindset the mindset wasn't there and we went into the hospital and i was proud of myself i'm going yes i'm pregnant yes i am with child yes i'm just one of you guys yeah yeah this uh nursing sister turned to me she said oh just think this time next year you're gonna be a mother you're going to have your child that's terrifying yeah how

interesting oh my god but that maternal that maternal um longing wasn't there but the nanosecond I had Lily the nanosecond she was born it was the biggest explosion of stratospheric love that I've ever felt in my life. Totally unexpected. It was like, that's why I'm here. That's what I'm supposed to be doing. That's why women have babies. That's what it's all about.

Oh, that's so lovely. It sounds terribly twee, but that love has never diminished or faltered and it's only ever grown and when I was pregnant with Kitty got more it got more honestly I thought to myself this sounds weird but when I was pregnant with you I thought I'm a bit worried that what if I can't love her as much as Lily what if I haven't got enough enough love left yeah yeah but bloody hell it explodes all over again it makes you understand what infinite love is you know so i'm sure that's the same for mums with loads of children yeah you know that love is just there so i think we're just it's like a hormone and that toxin that you'll just get addicted to yeah oh my god give it to me again and i guess you need that to then

go through all of that process and that pain and but how interesting that it took you to actually birth the child yeah you know i'm sure it's different for all mums and every single mum has a day and it'd be so interesting to hear when your mum first had her first maternal instinct but but it took you to actually birth this child to then be like don't touch her oh you know i need her in my life and mama bear big time but also the thing that you just said with about um mothers saying oh well you don't feel the love until you you know there's no love quite like it you hear it all the time yeah we truly hear it from everyone and it is one of those eye rolls like when parents say you know i walked five miles to get to school every day

but it's actually i don't know how you feel but it scares me of it it does it's it's interesting that when people say like you know when you see celebrities that give birth they go our hearts are so full we've never experienced something like this and it's one of those things that like you said so many women do it and it's so interesting to feel like there's a whole kind of thing we haven't experienced feelings wise yeah yeah that we probably won't feel unless we have that experience yeah yeah which is crazy yeah it I find it scary and I also feel the love I I am such a relationship person not as in um I don't mean like boyfriend and girlfriend which I am but also the people around me my family my friends my boyfriend they are the biggest soul and core and nucleus yes of my life and I think I have so

much love for my parents and my sister have so much love for you yeah have so much love for how could I have more love that's how could I really produce a different love than the one i've got yeah because i feel like i'm i'm a pisces i feel very deeply i'm a sensitive little soul i'm like how could i feel more yeah it's not like i feel at all can you imagine if we got pregnant at the same time honestly what no we've spoken about this before we're like well it has to happen I'm like fuck I've got to crack on it's like come on then come on yeah that's so oh man yeah it is a really true feeling that you you cannot experience until you're a mum because you hear it from mums all the time yeah and it's so true and the other thing you just touched on a moment ago was that mama bear feeling. And I really experienced that directly after Lily was born,

almost to the point where I didn't want anyone holding her. I didn't want, she was mine. She came out of my, she's mine. And it was really ridiculous. I remember my, even whether it was my mum or my sister holding baby Lily for you know a few minutes while I was lying there exhausted yeah I had we still had one eye on them watching what was going on and thinking oh no don't get attached don't get give her back to me yeah you know give back to me because I you know she needs to know I'm her mum

you know it's ridiculous you know she's hours old she's not going to forget that yeah she's not going to not know that but I also remember feeling this will sound weird but jealous of other pregnant women you know when I would see other women heavily pregnant yeah I want that back I want I wanted her back inside me sorry laws that sounds disgusting you know i just yeah so i knew i wanted another baby straight away oh and i wanted another daughter straight away i hoped and i delivered yeah he came through he came through she just wanted a daughter but bloody hell she got me she didn't get a daughter. No, no, no. She got a legend. She got a legend.

That's the legend. You birthed a legend, Mother Dearest. Yeah, you did. But my question as well, I talked to Archie a lot about it, actually. On this topic of completely new feelings, we always say how Arch and I are in such like a honeymoon phase. I know we're like three years in, but, you know. This is a long honeymoon. I know we're through like three years in but yeah this is a long honeymoon three years honeymoon but we we just we do love each other dearly but um we always joke that with babies and all that he's got a very close friend who's just had a baby

yeah um and the the recent one I've experienced is my cousin having a beautiful baby who was the cutest baby on earth um but I always say you you know, when we look at babies and go, oh, how cute, and then we say, oh, not ready, not ready, not ready. You know, one of my fears is that at the moment, I'm Archie's biggest attention. I have all the attention in the room. The only person Archie prioritises in his life is me. I'm big chief. No, seriously, I'm big chief over there.

You're big chief, yeah. And I think if I give a baby, is that number one? Am I going to be number... No, but seriously, I'm big chief of it. You're big chief, yeah. And I think if I give a baby, is that number one? Am I going to be number one? No, but seriously, I'm like, clearly at the moment, I don't have that maternal instinct because I haven't felt those hormones and that protection and mother bear. But I'm like, hey, Archie, I'm the one in your life. And we do joke and think, oh, God, how, you know,

minuscule of a ridiculous issue. But were there ever those feelings or do those feelings go or did dad ever feel hello like you're paying more attention to the girls than me or it's listening to those fears um i'm sure everyone could relate to that thing yeah that makes perfect sense yeah of course you'd feel like that but the reality of it is so different really you know it makes your love even stronger you know you have that amazing sense of pride look at what we've created yeah you know this this little bundle is a product of our love and it just makes you love them more yeah and yes but when you put it the way you did it it makes sense as well and I so I think that

those types of fears are real I can understand that but the reality is did you have those feelings before you got fell pregnant thinking I kind of just enjoy the life with Fraser and I and I'm his priority I was just going to give the child away if I didn't like it I wasn't gonna have that she said she was like something that reassured me was that boarding school oh I wasn't gonna bring that up she's like boarding school okay boarding school that's my last and then when we came to her and said you know we were very fortunate to go to a lovely school that did do boarding but we were day and then when we came to her and said oh we'd like to board she was heartbroken and it was almost like well serves

you right doesn't it yeah the universe works in serious ways again it's so true yeah so funny mother's day do you feel like it highlights your role as a mother in the sense you become hyper aware of your relationship with your children you like sit back and have that reflection time of how that year's been for you the how everything you've gone through as a family as a mother do you ever take that time to reflect on the day that's a really good question and the answer is absolutely yes it It does. And I would be surprised to hear any mum say that they don't at times feel guilt or feel like they've fallen short. And sometimes Mother's Day makes you think,

oh, maybe I could have done this better or maybe I could have done that better. I know. But going back to the love of having beautiful, sentimental cards helps you reflect as well, actually. Because it's a little bit like a performance review. Oh, fantastic. Oh, I love this. I love it.

I love it. I love it. She's got them. A little surprise for you. Oh, my God. We've been surprised. This is amazing. Okay.

I'm nervous. I know. This is terrible actually. Do you know what? I was actually going to play on the podcast and I was just so humiliated I couldn't. I was actually going to... Do you know what I'm about to say?

No, go on. I was so humiliated. I thought, actually, do you know what? We do embarrass ourselves on the podcast. Clearly me at the earliest thing I had a nasty day. Yeah. But I thought I can't even do this. I must have been about seven or eight

and I was in the car. I've always been a mummy's girl. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah And I was in the car. I've always been a mummy's girl. I was in the car and I got to sit in the front. You know, youngest privileges. And Lily's just a sweetheart. Anyway, I was sat in the front and mum had a Blackberry. And I record. And I think I'm a musician.

Genuinely Elton John in the making. No, I am, I am. No, you are. I was, I was. And I record and I sing oh my god this song katie i might even have to ask justine to attach it it is so i'm like mommy i love you everything it is the most and honestly mum played it to me about two years ago and i was like What a wet wife. Oh, I love her. What a wet wife. I bet you loved it though. I bet you were like, I'm repeating the card.

It is. The school runs down. Yeah, every Mother's Day she's like, play it. There I go. She's like, play it again, Mummy. She's like, yeah. It was your alarm in the morning. Yeah, she's like, put it on.

Oh, yeah. Okay, let's read these cards. Tell us. So, you know, I said I keep all my cards. So I was having a look, you look you know preparation for coming on today I thought yeah I might dig a couple out and have a look well oh my goodness so beautiful so beautiful this this card here I don't know whether you can pick up on that I mean it's absolutely this is from you Kitty when you were young very typically it says typical for you um it has a picture of a tiara for a wonderful mum hope your day is fit for a queen oh lovely

I'm not gonna read all of that out but you know it's sentimental this is brilliant do you know what year this was sorry yeah I haven't got a year on there but you would from the content and I'm certainly not going to read it all out I would say you know you were quite young but you say thank you to mummy I hope you have a terrific day I am really looking forward to it that's because I book fabulous places yeah I'm sure you are. Yeah, I bet you are. I cannot describe... Oh, no, I'm jumping ahead. Here we go.

Although I have been boarding, I haven't failed to notice your kindness. Oh. That's very nice. In bringing clothes in for me. As opposed to letting you go to school naked i like it performance review continues oh i cannot describe how grateful i am for everything you do for me and honestly i cannot fault you

can you imagine if i did though like in the mother's day card No, that's good. Fantastic. Getting a raise for that one. Yep. Getting a raise. Can you imagine if I did, though? Like, in the Mother's Day card. I know, right? No, you are good at bringing me in clothes, but, you know, the meals aren't fantastic. Do you know what I mean? Can't follow you.

You should be very proud of yourself. Oh. As I am. Mother Teresa. Take this day to reflect that you couldn't possibly have done a better job. On me? They've got their eyes on you. Oh, that's so funny.

Wow. Now, this one's from Lily, who's also very young. She says, Dear Mum, Happy Mother's Day. And again, Happy Mother's Day. Throughout all the years... I think she was seven throughout all the years smiles and tears you've always been by my side apart from when i'm hiding in the bushes Wait, what the fuck does that mean?

Okay. Okay. When I was in the bushes. In the bushes. Oh, I love that. I love it. It's fantastic. And here's another one from Lilz.

Dear mum, right from the start, you were the one. Oh, that's nice. Oh, it's like a song, isn't it? Yeah. You were the one who that's nice it's like a song isn't it yeah you were the one who nurtured me prayed over me worried about me guided me and supported me in every pursuit she was eight so she'd come out of the bushes oh my god and now she's assessing me do you know what is the list it's's a guide. Clearly learned that at school. Guided me. Tick. Yep. Prayed on me.

She's got a comment in there. She's like, nurtured me. Nurtured me. I mean, what eight-year-old? Yeah, yeah. What eight-year-old says nurtured? I love that. Yeah.

Bloody hell, man. It was very intense. Before her time. Right, last one from you, Kitty. Fantastic. Dear Mummy, all the things I love about myself have come from you. Oh, my God. So you.

So you. Oh, my God. to our younger selves that episode and i said i was a confident child oh my god that's so funny everything i love about myself comes from me oh that is so funny you should be very proud of yourself. You've done a good job. Yeah. You inspire me each and every day. So imagine how much pride I feel when I get to call you my mum. Oh, please.

That's so beautiful. I know you try very hard. I know you try very hard I know you try very hard to teach and guide Lil and I in the right direction and you've succeeded in your work. There it is.

There you are. Oh, that is so funny. A main promoter. I love you very much, Kitty, with lots of kisses. P.S. I'm sorry I couldn't get you flowers. I'll try a baby alpaca next time. What the fuck?

A baby alpaca? Oh, my God, that's so funny. I'll try a baby alpaca next time. That is so funny. Maybe an inside joke? Maybe? Maybe? Oh, Mum, that was a fantastic section.

I knew you'd enjoy that. Oh I love it. For sure, for sure it's the, everything I love about myself comes from you. It's like, who's card is it? Well done. Thank you. Well done. Yeah, absolutely well done.

Smashed it. You know what, you've transitioned to our next section beautifully. How well do you think you know lily and i oh really well you think you know oh really well okay would in a room of a lot of people if we spoke if you could hear different voices would you be able to pick out what mine is yes would you yeah well let's put it to the test oh my goodness so katie and i we've written a list of some funny things that we love about you I have opened up with Katie about maybe something she didn't know and have told her

that we're going to play a little game in which we read out reasons why we love you and you have to guess who said them but there is a slight little what would you say? Caveat.

There's a caveat. Oh, gosh. That it's in a different voice. It's in an auto-tuned voice. So there are five of them. Five reasons why we love you that all have come from me, that I have clearly.

So, yep, because I'm perfect. But we would like to see if you could tell who's Katieie and who am i if you know if you clearly as a mother know your child that well let's put it to the test oh that's pressure okay so the for the first one okay we'll put it next to the microphone the reason why i love you is because you always burp like Scooby-Doo, like, woo. For goodness sake! You always burp like Scooby-Doo, like, woo. I think that's Katie.

It is! It is me. Point to you, well done. Okay, point to you, let's see the second one. You ready? Yep. Okay. The reason why I love you is that your eyes always blow up as big as golf balls

any time you go on a plane. Kitty! The reason why I love you is that your eyes always blow up as big as golf balls any time you go on a plane and you look like Igor. I'm afraid that was Katie. It was not! It was Katie! It was!

It was! It was! It was! It was! It was! It was! It was! It was!

It was! It was! It was! It was! It was! It was! It was! It was!

It was! It was! It was! It was! It was! It was! It was! It was! It was! It was! It was! It was! It was! It was! It was! It was! It was! It was! It was! It was! It was! It was! It was! It was! It was! It was! It was! It was! It was! It was! It was! It was! It was! It was! It was! It was! It was! It was! It was! afraid that was casey it was not so one to you one to us oh okay let me play you another one uh okay this is a good one the reason why i love you is because you say you never told me that when i told you a hundred times god that sounds the reason why i love you that's you that is me that is me well done two points to you one to us okay let's see if you get the other one um that's a good one it's a really good one okay i love you because your sister shaved you off your eyebrows when you were young so you have to draw them on. Katie, you shouldn't know that. Yes, Katie.

Well done. Three to you, one to us. Okay, and I believe this is the last one. The reason why I love you is because you wore ten bras to a supermarket when you were a child. Oh, that's too good. Katie McNeil. It's true as well. It is. That say four out of five i would say you did a good job it ain't bad at all i'd say you did very well for knowing your children yeah

katie's the third child so all right exactly yes exactly done, that was really good. So, would you say that Mother's Day is about yourself as a mother, or do you usually take Mother's Day to think about your own mother? Good question. It's got to be both, hasn't it? For sure. And although my mum's passed away now, she's been gone about six, seven years, My mum's passed away now. She's been gone about six, seven years. I still think of her, especially for Mother's Day. Oh, that's lovely. I still reflect back.

As I said earlier, I didn't always get it right with my Mother's Day cards, sending them at the wrong time. But I think one thing that... How can I put this as you get older as you're as you get older in in being a mother you start looking back at your relationship with your mum and think about what they must have gone through at the age you are at this particular time how interesting yeah and you think about your mum with so much more appreciation yeah and understanding and you really feel um empathetic empathetic and humbled by it yeah and a little guilty at times think god I didn't realize how tough that must have been because I'm bloody finding it tough.

And I'll think back, oh, she told me this, and I didn't really take much notice of her, and she was bloody right, you know, because I'm experiencing this now. And Mother's Day, I think back, bloody hell, Mum, you didn't have it very easy. You had it very hard at times. You almost, at times, single-handedly brought us up I think my dad was there but we came from a very um oh gosh it was quite a working class mentality

I think and generational my dad would say things to my mum like no wife of mine is going to work right you know and um and i know she desperately wanted her voice trained she wanted to sing she wants she did a bit of club singing and stuff but she's there was so much more she wanted to do but she never did and i think there's one thing's for sure every single mum sacrifices something yes you know they sacrifice a bit of themselves yeah and so mother's day I think back to my mum and how much she sacrificed for us um so yeah did you ever feel like your relationship because I feel like relationships with mothers are always kind of ebbing and flowing the older you get I mean through different stages um but did you feel

a shift once you'd had Lily like when you had your first baby and then you're like oh my god was there just like a newfound kind of layer of your relationship with your mum yeah i think you're absolutely right there you know it's at a deeper level yeah um because you know she's gone through what you you've gone through um and and as I said before you you just really respect and understand that yeah at a deeper level now and it's all so much more relevant some of those silly things that she'd say to you think oh my gosh that makes sense now yeah you know and uh I just wish she'd been around a bit longer yeah you know to share so much of because she would have had a hoot you probably would have had her oh yeah she would have loved it she wouldn't have known how to to

listen to it but she would have absolutely right there you're absolutely right but I think there's a reason as well why um in the past in delivery rooms when you do give birth why your partner wasn't allowed in there it was your mum and I think it's not only just the you know your bits of your bits and your husband she'll see that but it was also you've been through it you know what's about to happen you can be there for me and and I think that as you said you know mothers and mothers relationships of with what whether they have a son or a daughter or whatever whoever they have it's a difficult one but but to be able to look back and um respect your mother that much when you're a mother yourself must be huge must be absolutely huge and it was so different because your mum had um babies she had three when she was very young very young really

really young whereas you were different you know, you were worried about your fertility. Yeah, absolutely. Whereas she was, oh, well, it'll be fine. Yeah. And it was so different. I mean, when I think how young mum was when she had my sister, and she was very tiny, she was even smaller than me, and quite a slight woman, you know, she was very, very slight. And her being told, oh, you know, you're having a breach,

it's a breach birth you know you're going to need to have a cesarean and she refused wow i want to bring this baby into the world myself oh wow and she labored for three days to deliver my sister oh my goodness yeah and that is but that as well is generational it's the same with breastfeeding like i haven't been there but i've heard so much from women generational how bad they felt am i not with breastfeeding like i haven't been there but i've heard so much from women generational how bad they felt am i not a good mother that i can't breastfeed am i not a good mother that i can't bring my child through my vagina you know whereas now and and social media can be a bad thing but also a fantastic tool and i think one of the best tools

it can is awareness whether that's to do with mental health yeah whether that's to do with motherhood and to be able to be like you are a mother whether it came out of your stomach or what you are a mother whether it's biologically yours or not you are a mother you know um and I think that is a great weapon that we've been able to translate into our life into the modern world but generationally back then it would have been so hard even your mother being told she can't work you know that's all generational yeah um but that but that's really something so significant to look back on where you know and that's also the tensions you can then have with your own mother for your mother to say to you i mean uh even with body hair with generational generational, you know,

in our generation, it's known to take it all off. And your generation, the generation before, that's unheard of. Why would you do that? You know, generational, it's so different. So then if I'm having a baby and saying to you, well, this is what I'm doing, you're thinking, oh, no, you don't do that. And I'm sure you had it with your own mother saying, oh, Eileen, what are you doing?

And you're thinking, no, mum, like... This is how it is how it is how it is now yeah did that create tension or was that more support that there was a different understanding of the world and motherhood gosh I think the latter you know I really wanted to um I don't think I ever turned to my mum and thought and and said to her well that's that's rubbish we don't do that anymore okay I might have thought it I would never have been so disrespectful to have said to her yeah um because yeah she used to come up with some some interesting things but you know like when you had sore breasts you put cabbage leaves on them and stuff like that you know apparently you know apparently I'm going to watercress in my point soon Katie and I on our periods

will be running out to Tesco's for the cabbage I'm not sure that's all because cabbage leaves are cold maybe I don't know but I'm sure she would have argued the point it was you know something imbued from the but things have changed so much yeah and yeah my poor old mum having to go through three days of labor

she was lucky she didn't you know she didn't die she was lucky yeah but my sister is as normal as she is but even that's debatable but then again for her to have that traumatic experience but then still do it two more times yeah that that that's a credit yeah i mean your mum's had three children yeah you know she's been through it three times and actually you say a lot that your mother goes i birthed you so i can say whatever i like yeah yeah yeah yes honestly her pelvic floor anytime she has any issue she's like well it's your fault yeah well well you're not wrong you're not wrong yeah yeah i think it's really interesting and for women going into pregnancies um with uh one of archie's friends who's just had a baby as well. It's changing all the time. Yeah.

And it makes me think that when we have our own children or are lucky enough to have children, what will that be like? Yes. You know, what will be the pressures there and what will be so easy and what will be challenging? Yeah. But I think it's just, Mother's Day is a time to respect that women have done that.

Yes. You know, and women have been through that, that body change, that mental change. You you know everything's doubted through that time yourself your partner you know there's so much doubt in that time but to be able to then reflect to someone else who's been through it and being like well done champ yeah like we did this yeah i'm sure that just grows your respect for your own mum absolutely yeah i can't wait till you and your sister are mums I mean that's just going to be phenomenal yeah that'll be so strange you will be the best girl have you decided oh yeah yeah do you want to be like nana nanny I don't know I like I think I like nana yeah or nanny or no no it sounds like a goat nana I don't know um like my mum my sister's um children my nieces diana diana that's her

sort of name they're stopping me diana and louise um used to call my mum wee nan yeah and i remember this uh little dressing gown she had that had wee nan written on it you know mum was tiny yeah um i don't think i want to be wee nan magnificent nan maybe i think to remember my mum nan might be the way to go but also to to build on our relationship then like oh yeah to then how will our relationship change you know you are such a huge part of my life and I feel so lucky to be close to you and dad like and I love you both so much but you know not about full stop when you then are a mum how do you reflect on your own parents and be like how did you do this I need help like how did you do it and likewise from our point of view not wanting to um your dad not overstep the line either you know it's it's your child

but I'm in a lucky position a luckier position than you and uh dids were um dad um you know you both support me financially and emotionally you both didn't have that you know that was all off your own back and it's just how does that change your pregnancy you, how does that change your pregnancy? You know, how does that change your experience? Yeah. Yeah, it'll be interesting when we get to that point. Just not yet. Not yet, not yet, not yet, not yet, no. I'd much prefer Lily to have a little baby now. Would you?

I'm definitely, I'm definitely, oh my God, any time Katie and I see a baby, we're like, look at that little boy. So cute. I would love for someone in our French group, doesn't matter who. Just to have a baby. Someone in our French group to have a baby because then we could babysit.

It could be on the debrief. Oh, we could just sit it there. Oh, I'd love that. It would be so happy. Yeah, but any time it does a shake and, you know, take itself to the bathroom. Yeah, thank you. I was looking at a couple of baby photos of you and your sister the other day. Yeah.

And because you were born in the same hospital. Yeah. They had the same photographer you know after a few days it's hard sometimes to work at okay is that do you know which photos i mean with the yeah the sort of really pretty little um frame around it um but the one thing i can that helps me identify them is just remembering back to when they were born and then I look at the photo and go, oh, yes, of course that is Kitty.

Because when Kitty was born, she had her first, what do you call that? Pout. Pout. So she was born pouting and her little eyes were wide open. I knew. You knew.

Pouting already. And your little picture shows that. And when Lily was born, she was frowning. I'd actually love to know about you and Lucy, your sister. Yeah, I wonder. Do you know what you came out as, a happy baby? I thought I was quite a happy baby. But I remember my younger sister was not a happy bunny.

No, really? Not a happy bunny. She used really? Not a happy bunny. She used to wail. Your older sister? My younger sister. Oh, the youngest, yeah. I could imagine, I could see a world in which Lucy came out just silent, just loving me.

Like, don't mind me. Yeah, don't mind me. You do you. Everyone crack on, I'm just here. But she was golden child. Apparently she used to literally wait in her cot. She'd be awake. And then she'd literally be like wait in her cot she'd be awake and then she'd literally be like please can someone come get me now

i'm ready i'm ready to get up now i'm ready where i was gonna be like get me out wake up okay so we're gonna go on to our next bit. So I think the greatest, but also the most challenging job in the world is being a mother. Because it's not only the whole mental, physical, it's being responsible for this person for 18 years plus. And within these 18 years, you have a lot to cover. It's not just one in it. It's like that, what's that film that goes backwards? The baby, and then it's an old man, and then oh benjamin button yes yeah you know you can't start off wise and say hey tell me how we can communicate so i can do well for you you know it comes out non-verbal you know so how are

you supposed to make what's wrong with you how can i help you so i would say the three personally from a non-mothers you know other mothers might um have their own opinion but for the three most significant or three parts of a child's life i've chosen so the first one i've chosen is a baby when they're really small little babby maybe still breastfeeding they're really really small the second one is a toddler so their personality is coming through they're whinging whining running about and the third one is teenage years so i'm gonna ask you i'm gonna ask you would snog marry and avoid oh gosh uh marry to choose one of these i would do all over again i would do it oh my gosh give it to me let's do it let's do it let's do it i could do that time for the whole of my life the second one now and again yeah that's um snog now and again i'll snog it you know i'll have a

few moments with that stage of my child's life but not all the time just a few times and avoid i never want to do that again let's leave that that's in the past that's what would you choose for? That is a fantastic question. Baby, toddler, teenage. Oh, my goodness. So the snog one is you would do exactly the same. Is that? No, that's marry. Marry is I would do it all over again. I could marry it.

I would do it to its fullest. Give it to me. Let's do it all over. Baby, baby, baby, baby. Really? Oh, I love the baby stage. Oh, my goodness. I loved it. A lot baby really oh I love the baby stage really oh my goodness

I loved it lot to learn I've got a lot of things wrong but oh my goodness just I love that baby stage oh that's so cute your father would answer it a bit differently

yeah he would and probably your auntie Fiona may have answered that differently as well so you know it's individual it's you know mums are all different

you should ask your mum it'd be interesting yeah yeah um snog a toddler I think that's yeah oh yeah you avoid the teenage years I think I might do why avoid the teenage years oh my goodness um I I loved your teenage years and your sister's teenage years every every single um stage has its own challenges um but I think the teenage years were the years I wish to god I had a pause button and it could have just gone right pause and that okay how am I supposed to deal with that one yeah um how do I advise how do I where the other two you just I just you know we make yeah yeah you make it up don't you

absolutely and there was no one especially at the baby stage nobody to tell you what to say and with the baby and toddling years you had your mum there whereas with the teenage years you know she was in Australia and then she passed away so that was navigated on your own but I know for my dad's opinion oh my god he says the baby stage

the quacking the quacking he says no I love the stage right now he's like best stage yeah he does yeah absolutely would he much prefers being able to communicate and have fun yeah dad loves the inappropriate jokes so yeah yeah yeah definitely definitely oh but I you know don't get me wrong I love all of those stages. Yeah. And there are so many more stages to go through. Yeah. I think with being a mum is that don't be afraid as well to admit when you get things wrong or to say sorry about things

because we're learning. We are learning all the time. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, obviously perhaps you learn more with your with the eldest because they're and lily still is doing things for the first time and i'm still learning as i go and i learn from her yeah yeah and um and then i think you know subsequent children maybe do get a little bit easier because you're more confident yes you know you've cut your teeth a little bit on some things yeah um you and your sister had very different in many ways um teen years different sort of

um challenges but certainly there are still challenges there yeah but um but yeah being a mum is a big learning curve yeah it's huge yeah so I actually saw this thing online like a quote so when we do our mantras every week I usually have a look either I feel it in my gut and I know or or I've got an idea of what I want to say but I just need some inspiration so I always have a look on Pinterest yes yeah there was this beautiful quote that says something along the lines of of I forgave my mum when I became a mum oh I love that and it was like every mistake that I held on to every bit of anger that I had was gone because I was now like shut I am learning and I'm human and I'm sorry I'm sorry I held on to that and I thought gosh that's such a

raw emotion yeah you know something that I haven't experienced personally because I'm not a mum but what a quote yeah it's really helpful excellence doesn't require perfection yeah yes yeah you know and if you just aspire to be the perfect mum or the perfect anything yeah yeah you know it's not it's not good just do your best yes and when you fall down or make mistakes that's okay but we all learn through our mistakes and it's okay to admit them and there's been times kit hasn't there where I've said i don't think i handled that right i'm really sorry i'd rather you know i said this or did did whatever yeah yeah you know just we're all human we're fallible but you're a great mum for that like i hope you know that how much lil and i appreciate that and that is not universe like you are an incredible mum to be able to know but to be able to recognize that that you know what i

hold my hands up shit i'm human like i'm sorry i got that wrong and yeah and i think that's a huge tool to be able to use as a mum but also in life yes you know the biggest weapon we can use is to say sorry yes yeah just admit you're sorry like what's the issue yeah yeah i agree i definitely agree debrief dilemma debrief dilemma we've got a cracking one for you actually i would do not i have read this um first and i was a bit like i don't know how to navigate this so from a mother's point of view this will be interesting okay so hey girls love the podcast truly sets me up for a great week i love your humor and stories but right now i need to debrief with you because i'm stressing and i would love the advice from your mum kitty i've recently had a baby boy with my husband without getting into too much detail we found it hard to get pregnant so he's truly our miracle i love him so much and i'm overwhelmed by how much my body could make such a beautiful thing

that now i get to see grow into an amazing person like his dad he was born on january the 2nd so this will be our first mother's day with him and for me being a mum and my husband being a dad i ideally want to spend the day just the three of us and treasure this moment as we'll have lots of time to celebrate the other mother's day with the extended family but right now i'm living in a bubble of baby land oh i can that is so sweet yeah however every year for mother's day we always go to celebrate it with my mum and dad whether it be a dinner out a spa trip or even a dinner party i love spending it with my mum as we're so close and she loves my husband by the way my husband's family live in australia so that's why we can't celebrate it with them.

But ever since I got pregnant and have now given birth, my mum is so excited to host a Mother's Day event for her and I, now that I'm a mother too. She's had an idea to invite lots of the extended family and mentioned that it will be a big family reunion. The only reason I know this is because it's a surprise, but I accidentally saw it on an email on my husband's phone. I must be hormonal or something, but I just burst into tears.

I don't feel ready to share our baby bubble yet. I don't know if I'm overthinking or being selfish, but I really don't know what to do. She hasn't organized anything yet. She's just put the idea out. What should I do? I don't want to upset her because I love her so much and she means the world to me.

And it's so kind that she's putting together an event but i do not feel like i'm ready yet please help i need some guidance am i going mad oh my goodness i know that's a real tricky one that is really tricky and i can absolutely understand those sort of emotions and i don't think she needs to feel bad about that at all I think any young mum and especially your first mother's day as well you know those raw emotions you're still getting to know what motherhood is um it's a tricky one I think she holds an ace card in that her mum doesn't know she knows yes yeah so she could preempt it not by saying you know i've read the email or i i know what's going on but to actually share and confide in a mother in whatever

way she would normally do yeah and so i'm so excited for her partner and i to have that special time together the three of us yeah good's Day. Yeah, good advice. And that, you know, next year or what have you, actually, why don't we all get together next year or something? I don't know. But to sort of pre-empt it maybe and would work better for her. Yes, she thinks she should admit to her partner that she's aware of that it's an idea that's gone out

because I think by that email she hasn't said to her yeah that's what i thought it hadn't gone out yet yeah she thinks she needs to say to her partner if my mum brings it up with you can you shut it down yeah yes yes maybe she should yeah oh gosh it's tricky it's hard isn't it yeah um but even if she if she went with it pushed all of those emotions back and just oh what the hell i'm gonna go with it she's not going to be your true self on the day anyway she's going to be feeling really emotional yeah little baby will probably pick up on that as well and she doesn't want to have a memory of feeling like that on your first mother's day yeah absolutely and especially it's been highlighted the fact that they've had a difficult pregnancy difficult so i think this really is their true miracle and

congratulations you know and we truly mean that so you know you should have that time if that's if this is going to and if it is your only child then this is you know should be celebrated yeah yeah yeah it should three of them yeah i think that is great advice just to reiterate maybe try and navigate that by talking to your partner yeah was that a husband did you say husband yeah talking to your your husband and just say um i'm feeling like this so that he's in the loop because he might not know at all that yeah yeah and he could be going to the big extreme as well so yeah yeah make that known and but as mum said don't feel guilty for having those feelings because clearly i would have been exactly the

same really oh yeah i wouldn't have been ready to um yeah you know we talked at the beginning of the debrief about celebrating mother's day when your your children and little babies you know do you and your husband celebrate and stuff yeah To be honest, you're so frigging knackered. It is really hard work and tiring. Just having that closeness, just the pair of you, you don't have to organise babysitters, you don't have to glam up and get... You don't feel like it, you're so tired.

Allow time for all those exciting things to come back to where you want to do that. Don't force it. You feel, you know, I just think go with your gut instinct. She clearly doesn't want to have this big thing. So don't force those feelings down and do it. Don't do it. And the reassuring thing is that nothing has been put in place yet.

It's not been set in stone. And you clearly sound like you've got a good relationship with your mum. So, you know, you're not a bad person. Talk, you know, just be open and upfront. I think that would be all right. Yeah, absolutely. Talk with her about how you're feeling right now. And, oh, goodness, you know, Mother's Day is coming up.

Yeah. And this is what we'd like to do. Yeah, well done. Just so she knows. Yeah. So maybe she can... Yeah, yeah yeah exactly yeah well good luck with that yeah yeah gosh and have a great mother's day yes have a great

mother's day what we always do is our x oh i love your x and but before we get into the x we're gonna have to ask you to do the x with us are you ready three two one classic we always worry we actually our last guest lived to do it as well and she hadn't known we do the same thing it's like so you have to say x in an icky way and she was like you did fantastic smashed it fantastic smashed okay so the x for this episode on the theme of motherhood and mother's day what stereotypes or opinions about motherhood make you feel either uncomfortable or that they are not realistic outdated or um in fact it doesn't match with what you believe or what you feel motherhood truly is and this is all personal you know and when we ask these ex this is why they are

ex they are personal it doesn't have to be a universal thing at all it's just oh no this does great me when people say this yeah gosh i've actually got so many so i'm gonna have to know which ones to these are the except we actually can't because we're not mothers yeah give them give them to us i guess when i hear when i hear mums say um i'm just a mum or you know i don't work yeah that sort of grates me because we've all have to make sacrifices once you're a mum and there are three types of mums you know want a mum who stays at home yeah a mum who has to work, a mum who chooses to work. And I just wish that we, you know, as mothers, we should be celebrating our choices and respect our choices.

But it grates me when I hear someone say, I'm just a mum. It's a big job. It's an honourable job. And, you know, you don't get any holiday. We don't get any pay. You don't get any any holiday we don't get any pay yeah you don't get any sick leave you know it's it's a it's a hard it's a hard it's nothing only about it yes yeah i could say an awful lot more about that statement but that is a that is a real ick for me fantastic Fantastic. That's brilliant. And the other one, and you touched on it earlier, is the assumption that every woman can breastfeed. That really icks me because out there in society,

there is such a big pressure on breastfeeding. Yes. Breast is best. Yes. You give your child the best start you can with breastfeeding. And you know what? It's all true. It is true.

But we can't all breastfeed and you know what pressure it's all true it is true but we can't all breastfeed you know yeah and personally speaking it my milk dried up after gosh did I get to week three and oh my goodness you know we talked about my relationship with my mum changing she held me in her arms and I sobbed and sobbed and sobbed. I thought I was the worst mother. I cannot feed my baby. And she was just brilliant. But I felt, you know, it's hard enough without having to feel all of that guilt and stress.

Well, putting that pressure on someone. We touched on pressure of how much pressure you put on someone at a young stage in their life which when we talked about sibling rivalry and and being competitive with a sibling but putting a pressure on such a young motherhood start yes you just starting on mother and already now doubting your ability why do that yeah why when you've got so much else to go and to look forward to and to work through why are you doubting yeah already and why are you making other mums feel sure yeah you know surely you should all be like we've done

it like we've actually done this thing yeah so true you don't need to be feeling like you're a failure less than no oh my god and i guess the other thing going on from breastfeeding from um yeah breastfeeding is breastfeeding in public you know good topic yeah that it's still you're made to feel really uncomfortable and embarrassed and ashamed and you have to cover up and i didn't experience it so much i must admit in australia yeah i just got them out no problem yeah and you you just feel so proud yeah as well look at me didn't last for a long couple of weeks but you know but I do see women at times struggling and feeling embarrassed or you know and things have changed you know there's the Equality Act of 2010, I think it was, that was put into place in the UK

so that women could not be discriminated against if they wanted to breastfeed their child in a public place. Fantastic. It didn't matter where it was. Fantastic. And if someone tells you off or gives you a bad look or says something, they can be held accountable for that. Good.

And I hope in time we'll forget that there's that equality act even in place. Yeah. Women should be made to feel a little bit more comfortable and it should be accepted a lot more than it is. I think what is interesting, though, on that point is that from a young woman's point of view, before I'd experienced it myself not personally but my cousin breastfeeding yeah beforehand I when we grow up as women yeah breasts and boobs are a big part of

our life yeah and everything so I thought it was hyper sexualized and I thought oh no no genuinely and I hold my hands up there and I'll be like oh gosh that's very sexualized for in front of everyone until very recently about a year ago now i was in australia with my own cousin who was breastfeeding and i couldn't admire her more the beauty she'd created i was like oh my god and the connection this baby yeah the eye contact this audrey beautiful child she couldn't stop looking at her mom and she just like was happy and safe and warm and and i was like what a beautiful thing that you're providing your child this but yeah i said and i was like do it anywhere yeah this is what your child needs you know yeah if you can do it

do it yeah yeah my sister louise's mom yeah um was very fortunate in being able to breastfeed Louise until she was, gosh, I think she would have been two, maybe a bit older. Wow. Got that some time. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think most mums who can breastfeed, you know, maybe breastfeed six or eight weeks, something like that. Yeah. Okay.

Longer. I think the percentage drops beyond that. Some even go longer than two years yeah but I know that my sister would always say how much she loved it yeah that connection that you spoke about with Louise and Audrey you know that connection that she had with Louise was she yeah it was beautiful yeah yet she struggled to breastfeed with Diana. How interesting. She couldn't sleep. She didn't have the proper support at the time. How interesting.

Yeah, so every pregnancy is different. Yeah, very true. But one of the other risks I have is when I hear young women say, you know, I don't want kids. Sleep deprivation, dirty nappies. Oh, interesting. Really? Oh, interesting. Why? want kids sleep deprivation dirty nappies oh yeah really oh interesting why because I think my goodness the sleep depri both things are real yeah yeah but they don't last too long okay yeah sleep deprivation might be I don't know six weeks 12 weeks if you're unlucky or something like that yeah yeah maybe even less than that with some yeah um nappies a year yeah yeah a bit longer yeah and yet to say you don't want children

because of that it's like oh oh that must be annoying yeah yeah but that going back to one of our earliest questions that's someone who now has those maternal hormones flowing in her genes, in her blood, when I was young, I probably possibly did say the same thing as well. Probably, yeah. But to give young women that reassurance that don't make that the reason not to have kids. Yeah, yeah, that's true. That's very true.

Yeah. I love that. And probably my last one. Go on, do it. Because I'm not going to go through all of them, but the last one I'll say is when I hear things like time spent with your child it should be quality not quantity when they're really little because i think they just want to be with you they just want to spend

time with you yeah yeah and that's what's important you don't have to be doing anything yeah having a kiss holding your hand being with them yeah they just want your time everything else is icing on the cake yeah you know yeah but um yeah so that's that sort of goes back as well to the excellent excellence as you know it doesn't require perfection no it certainly doesn't yeah that's just spend time with your little one don't be oh i've got to get my crummy set out and yeah you don't have to do all that yeah be there yeah be there for them yeah that's so lovely and realistically they won't remember anyway if they're that young yeah

just crack on you remember those i bet you don't even remember the hours and hours we spent making this castle out of toilet rolls. I had this mountain of toilet rolls. I had you and Lily sitting there. And we paper machéed them, created this huge... We were living in West End Avenue at the time. Oh, okay. We made this huge we were living in um west end avenue at the time oh okay we made this huge fairy castle oh painted it pink and everything it was hideous but um but we spent so much time doing that and it was more just spending time yeah yeah yeah exactly it's like oh my god yeah i think i

threw that you can't remember that no i can't know yeah oh don't put pressure on yourself to have to do something something big yeah yeah you know no it's just spending time with them oh that's lovely oh great great tips okay should we go on to questions question okay question question here we go so i've got serious questions so i will start us off yeah no do i yeah i do yeah yeah okay so my serious question is what is the thing you least expected when you became a mother if i'm being honest it is that ridiculous, not just the explosion of love, that feeling of wanting to, I would kill anyone who tried to hurt my child. Yeah. You know, it was that mother bear thing we talked about right at the beginning of the debrief.

Yeah, how interesting. That was the most surprising. Okay. Because I did have that period of time before having a child where I thought what if I don't like it and that huge reassuring feeling of yeah yeah yeah so I don't think I was expect I thought it's going to be hard graft building love and doing all that that was a beautiful unexpected um surprise yeah how lovely oh it's going to be hard graft, building love and doing all that. That was a beautiful, unexpected surprise. Oh, how lovely.

Oh, it's lovely. What's your silly question? Silly question. My silly question is, it's Mother's Day. Yes. Would you rather your kids sing to you how much they love you? It's the length of a musical. There's acts, there's scenes, and it's the length of a musical there's acts there's scenes and it's all

about you kitty has her own song where she goes everything i love about myself is because of you there's a whole segment there's dancing but you have to sit down and watch every year okay every year every every mother's day no it changes based on the things you've done that year you can have recaps of Christmases holidays but you sit down you have to watch it

every single year and it's about an hour and a half or two hours about two hours you get an interval but you have to sit down and watch it

and you're like that's lovely or dad would hate it dad would hate it he would hate that or have a professional artist come in and paint you like a renaissance

painting every mother's day mother of god that you have to hang in your house so you're coming up the stairs and there's mother's day's gone by where you oh my god Like a professional portrait. Wait, is it just of mum? No, just of you. Are you fantastic? Absolutely not. Absolutely not. Embarrassing. I would love to enter your home and just have it up the stairs.

Mother's Day up the stairs. I wouldn't mind one. I mean, Archie's mum, Sarah. What a woman. What a woman. She's been an artist for, Sarah. What a woman. What a woman. She's been an artist for, you know, a nude artist for life. Yeah, live drawing. Yeah.

She's done it quite a few times. To be that body confident. Yeah. Fabulous. Yeah, she is like a... She would pick that one. She's like, as long as it's naked. Yeah.

No, she's an admirable woman with how body confident she is with doing that people doing it naked can you imagine yeah so i think for me it's a very easy choice yes because that it also brings you back to your childhood because they used to do that i love it used to bunny the musicals and you know what's so funny as well it's how like as a child you're just not switched on at all like obviously mum's loving it and poor dad like he's sat there like well done girls very good yeah very good and he's just so sweet he's like you did so well girls you did so well and the two and a half hours of like a full act you know and oh you acted it beautifully oh yeah you know but any talent I got was from you so that's fine yeah act you know and dad's had dad's had oh yeah you know it but any talent I got

was from you so that's fine but you know dad's been a full week of work and mum's doing everything for us and we're like

right sit down for two and a half hours while we do you had tickets as well we had tickets we didn't have to pay which was nice oh that's good

that's kind actually knowing me now I'd make you pay wouldn't I so actually if you could transfer me that'd be fantastic yeah oh fabulous oh that's

great beautiful um well we just want to say thank you so much for having you on honestly it was so nice this is the first time i've had a family member on the podcast probably the last but yeah no but um no thank you so much for coming on and also to help other young women learn about what motherhood is like but also to for the women out there who are already mothers to just feel that it's all relatable and for the women out there who are daughters like us yeah to know what to do with their on mother's day absolutely so thank you so much thank you we had a great time the guru or the font of all knowledge on motherhood, but to be able to...

Contribute your bit. Contribute and share my experiences has been absolutely lovely. Yeah. You're two wonderful girls, honestly. You do this so well. Thank you. And it's been a real privilege, and thank you so much for being so gentle with me too.

Of course. It's been wonderful, thank you. Thank you so much. And debriefers, I hope you have a great Monday. Have a great week week make sure you get those cards go to online celebrate your mum do you want to wave her off mum bye

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