The Debrief - My Brother Stole My Dream Job!! | The Debrief Podcast

Episode Date: February 19, 2024

Happy Monday Debriefers! In this weeks episode we are discussing all things Sibling Rivalry! Have you ever felt in competition with a sibling? Well this is the episode for you! We're discussing our hot takes on sibling relationships and answer some of your juicy dilemmas. As always keep emailing hello@thedebriefpodcast or shoot us a DM @the.debriefpodcast with any debriefs or dilemmas. Have the most amazing week! Love,K+K x Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

🎵 Good morning! We're back. We're back. Good morning, darling. How are you feeling? I'm good. How are you feeling? I'm good. I'm really good. I had a lovely weekend. Oh, delightful. So I feel like I'm fully ready for... For the week. Yeah, I really good. I'm really good. I had a lovely weekend. Oh, delightful. So I feel like I'm fully ready for the week.

Yeah, I really do. Although, God bless us, the day started off, we had water coming down from our flat, the ceiling. And we were just there like, okay, let's try from the positives, the Monday mantras. Well, I'm literally like, I'm just a girl. I'm like, who do I call? When these things kind of happen,

like anything to do with mechanics or water plumbing, I literally be like, Dad. I'm like, he doesn't even live in London. I'll shit myself. I'm like, this isn't for me to sort out. I'm just a girl. I'm just a girl after all. I literally am like, I don't know how we would,

I don't honestly know if we didn't live with boys how we would have gone about fixing that. I think we would have just sat and cried underneath the puddle. Oh my God, genuinely. Yeah, I would be so upset. There are a few things that have happened and I'm just like, ah.

I'm like, what do I do? Actually, I would say you're more efficient than I am. You're quite efficient with these kind of things. Like with bills, you call them up. Like I'll be like, ah! Well, the thing is, I try try and then it always seems like something goes slightly wrong and they're like who's in charge of that oh that'll be me right tell me your mantra for this my mantra this week is i am calm i am confident i am courageous oh my lordy i'm calm i'm confident i'm courageous why have you needed those three things

i think so i did a um performance recently and i got very like we did like a sound check and everyone was sensational and our little the little policeman on my shoulder was like you're the worst fucking one in the room and i was like i need to calm down okay i just need to be the most confident version of myself which i'm trying to be and i just need to be courageous i just need to go for it because there is no reason why i should be feeling inadequate right now yeah okay and i feel like i just need to take that into the general week just kind of take a fucking breath. Yeah, yeah. First, and then just do it. Just do it.

Don't think about doing it. Just do it, you know? And sometimes I always find, I'm like, oh God, I don't know whether I should, just do it. Yeah, also it's the such, we both have experienced this, going from a little fish in a big pond and then you're a big fish in the little pond and then you go back. You know, when we were both at Mountview together,

when we were at drama school, you know, we were little fish in a huge pond. And now it's descaled, and you're a big fish in a little pond. And Katie and I both did something over the weekend where we were working with very good people. Yes. And when I say good people,

I'm not talking about their personalities, I'm talking about their talent and their ability. So when you're met with great talent and people that you're like, ah! You're like, okay. Then you can shit yourself. And that stupid voice can be like,

what is going on, what's going on? It's like, shut the fuck up. I'm like, girl, please. You need to literally flick it away. Like, get away, you little bastard. Truly. I get, know, girl. Please. You need to literally flick it away. Honestly. Get away, you little bastard. Truly. I get it. Right.

Okay. What is your mantra? So mine is, everything is aligning in my favor, and the universe has my back. Oh! Yeah. You're 100 miles away with that. Yeah, it does. The last few weeks, I just feel like I've been a machine, okay?

Yeah. I feel like I'm in a robot, like my head's down in the corner and someone's going, boop, and then I'm, yeah, come to life and they've just programmed me to do different tasks and I'm kind of just fucking doing it.

And I'm just like, the other day I sat back and I was talking to someone on the phone and they were saying to me, I hope you're recognising how much you're actually doing. Like, you're really doing well. I just thought, you know what? I will take this time for myself.

And you have to be, as your mother says, you've got to have the gratitude. Oh, you've got to be grateful. You've got to have the tood. Oh, the G2. You've got to have the G2. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Big time. And I think to be able to be like thank you universe for helping me there like yeah big shout to you up there thanks

help me yeah yeah that's good and she's always got your back she does yeah she does she's always got you pumping me up to be like you've got this girl and i'm just like thanks. So tell me what your song is. My song is... You're breathing down my neck. I'm giving you the creep. Oh my God, I haven't heard this song in ages. I'm giving you the creep. Yeah, yeah. Oh my gosh, that's like a perfect rendition.

I honestly had never heard this song. Ever. Ever. I actually... I can't't is it a well-known song i think it's quite well known because i actually thought i found like a really rogue underground song like i can't like i've been i've been in such like an arctic monkeys phase that and then apple like auto shuffle came on and this came on and i was like oh wait is it not arctic monkeys one no it's by mini mansions oh i don I don't know. The band. And I was like, oh my God, this is such a vibe.

And I was like, oh, underground. I remember listening to it in, I swear you used to listen to it in Mountview. I've never heard this song before. Well, maybe I'm gaslighting you then. I do not know this man. I'm sorry, I just do not know this man. It's actually a real banger.

Yeah, I bet it is. It's a good like summer vibe. Okay, getting us into summer. Yeah, absolutely. And you're wearing the pink day, pink to make the boys wink. Absolutely. Talking about pink to make the boys wink. Fucking Katie's making about 60 men wink.

Yeah, I'm batting them away. Katie's batting them away. They're all winking. It's double blink. They're all winking. Yeah, Katie's got a date lined up. She's got another date lined up. Yeah. Honestly, at the moment, I'm just like She's got another date lined up. Yeah. Honestly,

at the moment, I'm just like, when you come into the room, I'm like, ugh! Machine! No, no, no, I'm like blown away by your pure sexiness. And like, honestly, we can't keep the men away at the moment.

Okay, so my song is Love her mom, but then she sees another Sticks and I gone home, mom, she forgot that I existed and it's half my fault, and I like to play the victim and drink alcohol and my friends come home to Christmas and I, what a tune. What a tune.

What a tune. I just cannot stop singing this song. So good. Noah, is it Cahan? Khan. Noah Cahan. Season of the Sticks. Cahan.

Wait, how do you say his name? Cahan. Noah Cahan. Noah Cahan. I just love it so much. I love it so much. Cahan. Noah Cahan. I'm like Cahan, you're like Khan. Noah Kahan. I just love it so much. I love it so much. Kahan. Noah Kahan.

I'm like, Kahan. You're like, Kahan. Oh, okay. I would actually love to see him in concert. I would. He's got a good vibe. Reca, reca, recommendation. I'm going to say Boilermaker Putney.

Lovely. It's a nice bar. It's a really nice bar. Went there for a few drinks. Yeah. They have live music going on. Yeah. And it's very jazzy.

Nice. Like, very jazzy. I will i will admit though i had a mojito and they had run out of mint and i was like is it a mojito that's scary yeah i did i just how did you go well i didn't actually that's why i'm bringing it up yeah i was like you know could have a mojito and they were like we've not got mint and i thought hi okay oh my god though absolute ferals at the did i tell you what happened at the bar like absolute ferals no this guy comes up i was like there's this girl and this guy comes up with one of our friends and he goes and i i didn't really understand if he was really drunk if he was high or if he was just weird he just hi hi sat down at our table oh and i'm like hey like i don't know what to say yeah and he goes and he goes yeah so basically

this is little dweeb with him like a friend he goes yeah so i'm just really interested in a friend and and i'm like oh i thought he was coming out as gay like saying i'm really interested in my own friends i was smiling like oh congrats this is fantastic yeah you know this is great and this girl sits next to me and says well she's got a boyfriend actually she's got a boyfriend and i'm like darling chill like he's gay he's literally trying to have his moment he's gay he's coming out this is his defining moment and then and anyway he's like no no you and i'm like wait hang on i'm like right i'm like rewrite the story that's weird it's like you didn't make that clear darling like the diction wasn't there no no be clear be clear men communicate and that's just a blanket statement honestly Let's debrief.

Okay. Oh, you were direct. I was direct and you were having fun. Yeah. Okay, so this week we're discussing sibling rivalry and competition. Quite a few people have requested for us to talk about this topic. Yeah. And it is an important topic to address because everyone is compared to their sibling.

Yes. it it genuinely does really affect how you see yourself yes and it can affect your ability it can affect your own self-confidence your self-esteem your self-worth so let's talk about it so before we dive into how we feel i'm gonna say that sibling rivalry means a type of competition or animosity between siblings yeah okay so tell me your experience i used to have a lot of sibling rivalry funnily like me and my older sister like when we were younger okay i would always always want to like one up my sister but then weirdly i couldn't imagine you do that my younger sister i would say i was more rivalry with which is hilarious to me because my sister my younger

sister is seven years younger than me and when she was like three years old i'd be like i can stand you can't fucking stand right now but embarrassing for you that's icky for you i used to get really annoyed like when i tried to speak to her when she was literally four like four years old and she'd be like duck and i'm like it's it's a duck it's a duck say it correctly it's like oh god i had no patience for her when i was younger well i think as well as the middle child for you, like it's such a sticky place to be in, isn't it? And weirdly, no one wanted a rival with me. They knew they couldn't get to my level. They knew they couldn't get there, realistically.

But I think what is interesting for you is for seven years, you were the youngest. Yes. So everyone was like, oh. Yeah. And then little one comes along and you're like, hey. I can walk. Hey, don't remember the OG, all right?

Literally. Do you feel like you still have sibling rivalry now? No. No. I don't think so. Would your siblings agree? I think so. I definitely don't think I'm in competition with my younger sister.

Yeah. And I don't think I'm in competition with my oldest. I think it's because we all do, we're in a kind of similar realm, but we all do very different things. So in terms of like, I want to one-up you, not necessarily. I did feel a bit jealous when my sister got a boyfriend, but like, I do love him.

So like, he is a gem and they're so good for each other that I'm just like, I'll allow it. I'll let this one slide. But only for now, only for now. What about you um i think i think definitely as uh when we were little definitely and we'll go on to stories later because there are some cracking words but when we were really little we only have 18 months apart my sister and i so there was quite a lot of i think think I wanted, I think,

and this is kind of where all the rivalry comes from, I think, I wanted my parents' attention. You know, I was constantly wanting it because I think I was used to it. You know, as the youngest, I am the youngest, and I was always wanting my parents' attention. And if I didn't, I'd be like, you know, and I was, oh, I had tantrums.

I think my parents thought I had, what's it called? Like anger issues for a while. I know I'd get angry. I had an angry chair. I would have to sit in the angry chair. And I'm like, I'd get like red. My sister's a gem. I don't really feel she was very competitive with me.

She was genuinely, bless her, the Kris Jenner. Anything I did, she was so proud like she's like wow like oh look you go like she's just always been my biggest cheerleader bless her and then i spoke about her recently i spoke about this with her recently she was like not when we were little she's like but probably now like you know she was like there's been interesting yeah yeah because i feel the complete opposite i was like when we were younger i was like probably a lot but now i'm like you do your thing boo yeah yeah but she said no there have been moments where i'm jealous of you or and i was like interesting yeah and she didn't say it in like a bad way it was just so honest the more

you get to know yourself it doesn't necessarily mean you let go of yes that need or want to be better than your sibling yeah you know to be and and that's not what she said she didn't say i want to be better than you she just said oh no there are definitely points that i've been jealous of you yeah i was like oh sure okay yeah it's interesting yeah which is a bit like oh yeah um because we asked the debrief yeah we said have you experienced sibling rivalry? Yeah. Have you ever experienced, do you feel like you still experience it now? What an answer.

How many do you think said they did compared to they didn't? It's got to be over like 70% saying yes. You are correct. Yeah. 87% said, of course, how could there not be any sibling rivalry? And then 30% said, no, no need for,

we're family, no need for drama. Shit. I feel like it depends though, because I feel like there will be things, like my sister went to Australia last year. I was fucking jealous. Like,

I feel like, and I know for a fact, my sister, I've had experiences and done things and my sister's been like, oh, good for you. Like, in some senses. So I feel like that kind of rivalry. But I wonder if they feel like it's an ongoing thing. Because I feel like in terms of my siblings,

there's little pangs. Yes, yes. Little things which are natural. Little salt and pepper moments. Yeah. Sprinkling of, siblings, there's little pangs. Yes, yes. Little things which are natural. Little salt and pepper moments. Yeah. Like sprinkling of, yeah, I felt it there. Yeah, like when my sister

and her boyfriend get married, because I do see that for them, they are very well suited. Oh, they are so well suited. I'll be jealous. Yeah. I'll be like, I want to walk down my aisle.

Yeah, but you will. Yeah. You've got so many men on the go that actually adore you. I'm spinning like 20. I've actually got one underneath the table now, massaging Katie's feet. I know, I told them to keep quiet.

Yeah, so shut the fuck up. No, I think it was such an honest answer. Yes. And I was almost shocked that 13% said no, but then that makes me think, I wonder if you, maybe that's only children, to be fair. A, only, yeah. me think i wonder if you maybe that's only children to be fair a only yeah but then i wonder if maybe own only children then are just experienced jealousy but just with friends oh my god and that's why you get the only child syndrome yeah fuck maybe because because i feel

like having siblings is a very like you learn so much from your siblings and so do your parents oh my god i wouldn't change it for the world like of course my sister and i can be to each other but then i'm not being funny thank god she did her a levels gcses everything before i did because i was like actually i can sit back do you know what i mean that's when i had rivalry is that i wanted to do better than my sister at gcses and a levels and i did not my sister was quite smart i yeah actually that's such a good point because my sister's very very academic yeah and with like gcses and stuff yeah she did really well but i did really well and i got better in her than maths

and i was shit at maths i had a tutor at maths so then she was like yeah bitches i get you that it's a sprinkling but i think for 80 87 to say yeah i think that's natural yeah i think it's absolutely so it's not like you're actively holding grudges against your siblings. Yeah, if you're still having to get an anger chat like I was, then, you know, consider, let's consider things in your life. Let's look at this. Okay, so let's talk about why we have these sibling rivalry experiences.

I think there's like a social pressure for one of the siblings to be good at something. So the sporty one, the academic one, in some cases, which I think is so outrageous, people even label them on their looks. The pretty one. And I think it's so, and from a young age, if you're giving a

child okay so you're not smart no no no no no you're not smart yeah i'm that makes you feel shit and then you think okay well i'm never gonna be good at this because i'm not smart yeah and then you get a good grade and you're thinking hang on how did i do that if i'm not the smart one yeah i think that is where rivalry comes from because instantly you're labeled with these and then you're fighting each other to be good at something. Yes, yeah. You know?

Absolutely. I think it's a really hard one in the sense that you, growing up, I don't know if you found the same thing, is that I like idolize my sister, like my older sister. I just thought she was the best and she's still the best and still such a jack-of-all-trades and she's one of those people that can do everything very well

first try and she she's always very good at like taking things on and she was like she did all the sports she did everything like that and I remember a lot of teachers because we went to the same secondary school when I came into the secondary school, were like, oh, you're not like your sister. And then I think I tried to settle into that maybe more to try and actively not be like that. How interesting. And try and be like the class clown and not the studious one

and just kind of like sit into that because I didn't want to try hard and then not live up to what Lucy could do in a way. That's so interesting. And then in the back of your mind, was there that rivalry there of being like well do you know i'm not going to be as good as you because everyone always says that you're the most academic so yeah so i just won't be yeah so and i was not the sporty one but that was not for lack of i did try really hard and then i just stopped not written in your story it was, that was not part of my narrative guys.

That's okay. Yeah. The other ones who liked Lily would say to me, oh, you're not like your sister. Yes. And would label me as, you know,

disruptive and all that kind of stuff. And then that, I think it did, you know, cause rivalry when the reports came back and it was tick, tick, tick, tick.

So I think it can ultimately come down to labeling your kids from such a young age. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I think, of course, it's a parent's attention thing. You know, I think sibling rivalry can of course come from that. And wanting the, there is nothing better,

and I think you can agree with me on this, when your parents say to you, Katie Leach, you did that really well. I am so proud of you yeah there's nothing better than getting some praise or some reassurance from your parents the ones that brought you up and and are probably supporting you with what you're doing now just saying you're doing so well yeah there's nothing better and I think with needing that and wanting that and then having your sibling there and yeah maybe they're getting it and then you're yeah all of a sudden oh you fucking mention yeah yeah yeah it's so interesting that the need and want

from your parents then gets taken out on your sibling you know i've had oh my gosh i've had it where i think oh well why aren't you giving me that attention when yeah he hasn't done that and i'm making i've even experienced that in the what the age I am now yeah um and I'm 21 oh my god honestly it's one of those things I'll never forget actually it was results day for GCSEs and my parents decided to like take Lucy out for the day and and I was like well could I come and they were like well this is like Lucy's day and I was like for fuck's sake when will it be mine and that's one day of the year like they just took her out for lunch and like this is amazing like shopping that's amazing on results day and they were like we will do the same for you on your results day I was like

you're better that's it I even remember with reference to what you're saying now my parents were always really really good at being equal yes and like um we have these home videos that we've watched for the last few times we go home now and they're so funny because oh my gosh the personality the kids can have from such a young age it's fascinating Like we look at certain videos and I'm like, oh my God, that relationship that Lily and Ahaya had then or that certain rivalry or that was from there

or you were always quite sassy or anyway. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we saw that it was Lily's birthday and all this and anyway, Babby,

that's what she used to call me, Babby, you know, little Babby, got a present as well and I'm sat there fucking smug like, you know, like little epivital in the well and i'm sat there fucking smack like you know like

little epivital in the corner opening me prezzy comes around to my birthday my parents get me a guinea pig oh guinea pig and lily gets guinea pig and it's my birthday and i'm thinking hang on a second guys you know and it's amazing how my sister was like oh well Babby have the presents and I was such a younger sibling you sat yourself on the chair you took yourself there you was sat there you were like one sack

I'm not gonna speak I've had enough self aware you're like well this calls for the chair well actually

one thing I've always done is self aware I'm like Katie my anger chair okay give me ten minutes let's go on to

our own experiences of sibling rivalry and stories we can tell and certain moments in our life that were like yeah shit that was that was sibling rivalry and stories we can tell and certain moments in our life that were like yeah shit that was yeah that was sibling rivalry at its finest yes can have you got one for me i distinctly remember this one and this was with my younger sister so i do feel bad sorry maisie um no hard feelings she my parents got her a ball. She was young.

She was like four or five. They got her a ball that she loved to like. A ball? Yeah, like a little ball. It was a little Einstein's ball. If you remember that TV show, she used to love it. Yeah. And she'd throw it around.

She'd be like, I love, I love throwing and catching. And then she'd always be like, we would once play catch. So she was throwing it at me and i missed it and she was like hey katie can't catch i lobbed the ball at her i was i was 12 years old how old was she five she was like katie can't catch i was like you fucking show that again and it was your parents watching it was just the two of us in our little

like playroom I was like I was like oh lob it at her you say that again it it

it it bounces off her head and then you know you know that moment before kids cry and they just go and I was like shit

I was like oh my god I'm so sorry I don't know what came over just go, and I was like, shit. I was like, oh my God, I'm so sorry. I don't know what came over me there. Like, so, I was like, all right.

Well, it didn't though, didn't it? I'm like, all right, pick me. It's a softball, okay.

That was one of my favorites. I've got a great one too. My sister for Christmas one, yeah, got a Rubik's Cube. Oh my God, she's so sweet. She spent days

doing this Rubik's Cube. I remember we were all sat in our little snug that was off the kitchen in our old house. And we were watching these different videos so Lily could try to get her. And someone did it in like, you know those people that can do it in like less than 10 seconds.

Weird, yeah. And anyway, this guy, the professional Rubik's Cube-er, gets up, closes his eyes, does it in 10 seconds, and boom, whips it out. My parents are like, oh God, I remember this. Like, wow. And they are fascinated. Like, wow, wow.

And they said, God, I'd even find it absolutely incredible if someone could just finish the Rubik's Cube altogether. It doesn't matter if it was in 10 seconds. Well. Oh, oh, oh, 10 seconds. Well. Oh. Challenge accepted. Oh. Right?

And I thought, look, what an idiot Lily's been. Who are you? What an idiot she's been for actually trying to do it.

Yeah. The small way around it is picking off the stickers. Ah! So I sat there. Work smarter, not harder. Yeah.

Work smarter, not harder. I smarter, not harder. I had this. I picked off all these fucking Rubik's Cube stickers, laid them out, put them back on, and like, you know, smoothed them out. Anyway, ran through to the kitchen. Yo, yo.

Ran through to the kitchen. I was like, showed them the Rubik's Cube. And my mum and dad were like, oh my God, Kitty, did you do it? I was like, yeah. I was like, no. I was like, yeah. And they were like, oh my god, Kitty, did you do it? I was like, yeah. I was like, look. I was like, yeah. And they were like, oh my god, you're so smart. Like, what are you?

I was like, hmm. Anyway. And Lily's like, oh my god. As sweet as she is. She's like, oh my god. Kitty. And I was like, yeah, bitch. I was like, yeah.

Yeah. Loser. Someone who can't do a Rubik's Cube. Ask the genius. She's like, why are all the stickers peeling off? And I'm like, oh. I'm like, because your grubby hands, your grubby failure hands are on the, like,

success is here, okay? I remember getting bollocks. That was your sister's Christmas present. And you took them off so you could win again attention i was like you got me and like i just remember to this day being like the fact i had to she couldn't get a moment of fame with her oh she hadn't even done it but i thought i'll make this rubik's cube take it away and i can do it and then i'll bring it back and be like einstein winner winner winner no underestimating me all

right quacks is on it i was like she is on it i i did i did a similar thing with my older sister lucy where um we used to love hairspray as in the musical yeah yeah um and we'd always put it on that we had the cd we'd always put the c CD on and sing along and dance to it. Yeah. And for Christmas, she got this... It's always Christmas. She got this Lego police station. Okay. That she spent... I mean, Lego.

You put your blood, sweat and tears into Lego. Building it. Getting it. And it was a big police station. Okay. Okay. It took... My parents got involved in getting it all set up. Okay. So we were like... They didn't piss around, you know. No, no, no. It was a big police station. Okay, okay. It took, my parents got involved in getting it all set up.

Okay. So we were like. They didn't piss around, you know. No, no, no. It was a proper police station. It was grand designs over in the Leach household, fucking putting this police station together. We were singing along to I Can Hear the Bells.

Oh, what a tune. From Hairspray. And I wanted, and I felt like she was one-upping me. Like we were like dancing around and like singing and i felt like she was one-upping me like we were like dancing around and like singing and dancing oh my god um and um there's a line that goes one little shot and love's knocked me out i grab her pillow because i think she's she's like yeah like loving life i grab her pillow i take it and i backhand the fucking police station it goes did you mean to did you mean to i think on some level i did i think on

some level because i was like it was an accident and she was like it was not and i was like bang and then it went everywhere and oh my god i was in so much trouble because then you can't put lego back together like not without it like like literally it went i dashed it did you i was on did you and then and i was like oh god i'm so sorry it's in that moment where it's like oh my god you know but i'm telling you with performing kids oh as you and lucy were and lily and i were you've just segued me perfectly there's no other rivalry quite like it okay oh i'm telling you about these videos okay another one we watch at christmas lily and i are in our little ballet outfits oh my god little pot bellies like buns slicked back got a headache you know the cutest little kids

if I do say so myself honestly stunning children yeah and anyway we're both doing it and my mum's filming us my dad wasn't there

and my mum's like right are you ready girls are you going to do the performance yep yep yep anyway Lily as you know 80 months older than me she's a lot better than me

again she's got the turnout she was oneing up me and I thought that can't happen not on my watch hey not hey hey hey not today wind it in a lot better than me. Again. She's got the turnout. She was one-ing up me and I thought, that can't happen. Not on my watch. Hey.

Hey, hey, hey, hey. Not today. Wind it in because not on my watch am I being upstaged by you. All right? Not Darcy Bustle. Let the quacks get a little gut out of her.

Oh, yeah. So I was there with me little tight, like tight little ear top. Anyway, we're getting ready to do our, you know. Yeah.

And Lily, and I count her in. Right, three, two, one. Lily stopped doing it. And I can see she's doing it better than me. So I say, no, no, no, no. So we're doing it again. Start again.

Yeah. Mum has to play the track again. Go again. Bum, bum, bum. And go. Lily gets in front of me. Oh. And I'm like, eh, Lily.

And I go, eh, Lily. And I'm like, and I go, Lily. And I'm like, no, come back here. No. She's an absolute starburst. Comes back. Okay.

Yeah, let's go again. And I'm just like, honestly, like, I should be at the front. I'm telling you, this went on five times.

And my mum's like, Kitty, if you're not going to, if you're not going to do it, just don't do it. But stop complaining. And I'm like, Kitty, if you're not gonna do it, just don't do it, but stop complaining. And then I'm like. Fine. All right then.

I will. So watch me, okay? I literally spun around. It was fascinating though, watching, although, oh, how we laughed. Although we laughed, I was slightly embarrassed i thought i like watched a video and i thought i would have been no older than six yeah like and the the personality of no i've got the limelight has to be on me it's wild wild me and lucy used to do

riff-offs on the trampoline when pitch perfect came out and we were like we would literally be like on our trampoline had like a net and we'd be like circling the net and we were um this is why there's nothing better than a sibling no truly there isn't or the sibling rivalry is real it's true but also it it breeds stamina yeah it breeds yeah it does it does yeah it does yeah although it puts a hell of a lot of pressure on you it does breed stamina because yes you do have pressure as we both did with our siblings being academic yeah however it makes you think right probably should pull my finger out of it yeah yeah you know honestly it does okay so we went on to ask the debriefers what they have felt personally with their sibling relationships has caused rivalry yeah one of the

girls wrote in and said my biggest rivalry with my part my biggest rivalry with my sibling is actually our relationships with our partners interesting interesting now i can see that because if you're if if your family really like one of the their boyfriends but don't like the other boyfriend or their partner or whatever yeah that would cause a lot of bloody rivalry yeah so i get that that is hard or you know oh what are you doing so say if we're sisters yeah and i say to you oh what you're doing this weekend you say oh joshua's taking me out for a lunch for valentine's yeah what's archie doing for you and i said oh you know we're just gonna yeah go for you know

just a walk yeah that's nice oh it would i get that i get that i've put i've personally never had it with my sister i know my sister has had it with me. Yeah. Being like, oh, because just Arch is the best. But not at Arch, more that she wanted my parents to like her partner like they liked Arch. Yeah. So I thought it was interesting. What have you got for me? I have, someone said, a sibling having more financial freedom. That's a big one.

Which I feel like is really hard. that's a big one which i i feel like is really hard that's a big one especially it depends if it's an older sibling or a younger sibling if it was a younger sibling and they were fucking harder doesn't balling i'd be like oh it hits harder yeah it's it's hard because you want to be like happy for them at the same time like if you're if you haven't got that disposable income you kind kind of be a bit like, oh God, where did I go wrong? Fucking trying to get this. Yeah, yeah. So that's a sticky one.

Yeah, it is. It is sticky. And I mean, money, oh God. Root of all evil. It really is. It's the worst. Honestly, it's one of those that is really hard to talk about

and to navigate in relationships, but with your family as well. So yeah, I can understand that. Someone else said to me, which was what we did cover, but the expectation from parents is what then drives them to have rivalry. She said, they expect a lot from me as I'm the eldest, but not from my little brother,

which does really wind me up. Yeah, I get it. Elder siblings, yeah, I think it's... They get it the most. Like, any person I know that was the elder sibling was golden child. Yeah, okay. And anyone after, like,

I was most definitely not a golden child. Yes, yeah. So that's always hard. But when I speak to my sister about it she was just like well i was fucking terrified of putting a foot out of line in a way like i just i like i was not gonna like risk anything because i wanted to do it well and be good yeah and even my sister was just like you know i envied you like you'd be able to go chill and you know but i knew that i needed to make sure things were done and i'm just like only 18 months apart but she just was so much more like no get up and go

with that you can always tell who's the oldest sibling 100 yeah i think you can absolutely i think you definitely can one that um i saw as well was um a sibling having a better friendship group oh gosh which that's the tricky one someone which i also get because i remember when i was um i i definitely had that with my older sister when i was younger um when i was at school and i was really struggling with friendships and she had such a solid group um and i would always be like can i come like sit with you guys like i want and i was always so jealous that she had those connections gosh and that kind of like solid base and i eventually like when we talk about finding our girls like you always end up finding

your people and your girls yeah um but at that time i was just so jealous that she had like the friends that i didn't at the time it's a really hard one as well because I think you don't want to impose yourself, but equally if you're trying to learn as well. Yeah. You know, like my sister had it as well and she said, oh, can I join you? And I was like, of course, you know. But that can be really hard.

I know, for example, there are people that I do know that have siblings that hate each other for it. And I think that's so difficult. I was like, I can understand why you'd have jealousy and envy. It's not a good trait, but don't hate them for it. No. Yeah, yeah.

One girl wrote, my sister and I hate each other. We don't like each other because one of us gets all the attention. She is really pretty. She does lots the attention. She is really pretty. She does lots of sports. She's really active. I am the exact opposite. That's really hard. That's really hard.

And that's what we spoke about earlier with the pretty one. Yeah, fuck. Why are you labeling that? That's a horrible thing to do. That's a horrible thing to do. Don't label these people as that. That would do me in. And as I said earlier,

how does that affect you going into life? How does that affect you growing up, in your career, in your relationships? Yeah, you internalize those labels. Regardless, if you feel like, if someone went, oh, you're the sister of the hot one. Oh, your sister's really hot.

It's like that whole thing of going up to a friend and saying can i have your friend's number or going up to your sister or i'm interested in your sister like for the first like year of my experience clubbing that was my experience and i remember it it is horrible it really does a fucking number on you it's the point where if anyone comes up to me i'm like oh you're not here for me like it's a really like it does do a massive number on you either it can do both but it either can knock your self-confidence or knock your want of the relationship with that person yeah because you could think oh fuck you you always get people and i yeah you know or it can just be like, I don't want to hang out with you. And I think that's really sad when it comes to siblings.

Yeah, absolutely. We asked the debriefers if they've got any dilemmas for sibling rivalry. And we've got a pretty good one. So get yourself ready because I'm like, oh, okay. Oh God. I know it's a pretty tough one. Okay. Hey girls, hope you've had a good day. I know. It's a pretty tough one. Okay. Hey, girls.

Hope you've had a good day. Happy Monday. Happy Monday. Happy Monday. Okay. I need to debrief with you both because I'm stressing out capital letters. Dot, dot, dot. Basically, I've been working in marketing for about eight years now.

Gosh, that's a long time. I graduated from uni and went into an internship, then went into marketing straight after. Gorgeous. So I've been in the industry for a while. I have a twin brother. Oh, God. Who also has recently gone into marketing

after working in politics for five years. Fuck. Nah, do you know what pissed me off? Oh, that would piss me off. Do you know what pissed me off? Not only do you want to be me because you're trying to look like me. Yeah. All right? Yeah. Not only do you know I pissed me off do you know I pissed me off not only do you not only do you want to be me because you're trying to look like me

yep alright yep not only do you want to be me because you're in the same sack as me in the womb

yeah why couldn't you just wait alright literally now I'm here I'm out here

like hustling I'm out here climbing the fucking ladder for eight years and then you're coming in acting like you own you are marketing

you're not mate no drama there at all, to be honest. It was nice, actually, being able to talk to him about stuff and our interests as they aligned. That's true, that's nice. And I wonder if there would be less competition because you're kind of like, oh, well, we do the same thing. Let's do it together and we can have fun.

Are they the same, like, company? We'll get onto that ah anyways yeah two roles opened up at his workplace and my brother knew that i was looking for a change of scene okay so he actively told me to go for it and he thought that it would be a really good idea nice i. I was slightly hesitant, girls. But since we were both being completely different buildings, I chose to apply. Perfect. Fine, fine.

To be honest, if I was like, if my sister was like, let's be in the same office, that would be sticky. It depends how good the job opportunity was. Yeah. Anyway, a week goes by and I've been offered an interview.

Oh, brilliant. And so was he. Okay. He applied for one And so was he. Okay. He applied for one and gets the role. Okay. After a few days, my brother gets a big group of us together, including my family, and tells us all that he got promoted to the head of marketing role. Oh. I was really happy for him.

And so was my family. I was genuinely pleased and really happy because he was looking to buy a house with his girlfriend. Although, I was surprised as he's only been doing marketing for 18 months. So I did question how he got the head of marketing. Whereas I've been doing it for eight years. That would be sore. I would find that sore. Yes'd find that nah nah nah i would i would i'd find that difficult if i'd been like put me puss in for eight years he knows someone yeah on yeah realistically he said to me that he got one of the roles and that he had his fingers crossed that I'd get the other. Yeah. Anyways, I then get brought into the company for the final interview.

Yeah. And ultimately, after the long process, get offered the position. Oh. Of dot, dot, dot, head of marketing. I was confused. I called my brother and asked him when exactly he was offered the role. And if he had actually accepted it. I didn't want to tell him that at that point because I was confused.

He told me they haven't officially said that he got the role. And he overheard a chief of staff that he reckons Samuel, our last name, will get the offer. All of my brother's friends refer to him by his last name. No. So my brother thought they were talking about him,

but actually they were referring to me. Fuck. I've been offered the position, girls, as head of marketing at this company that my brother's working at but my brother my family and his girlfriend all think he has everyone is celebrating what the fuck do i do i didn't want to end it like the movie fair play oh my god that was wild yeah oh my god guys if if you have not seen that film fair play with the

girl from bridgerton wild you will i can't i'm not even going to tell you how it goes because you do not think it's going to go the way it's going to go it's weird it's so wild yeah so i don't blame you don't want to go go like that should i decline the offer and keep everyone happy or accept and let everyone down? Please help me. I'm a true debriefer who's truly distressed. Oh, girl. Accept the offer. Oh, my God.

You've worked too hard. No, no, no. Let's depict this. Why are you lying? Why are you lying? That's really bold of that man. Why are you lying to your girlfriend, to your family, sister saying i got this okay okay if you've overheard it's the last name there it's like saying mcneil's gonna get it mcneil's gonna get it and they're talking about me surely you

just wouldn't jump the gun like that i just don't know why you jumped the gun surely you would i don't know if you didn't know that she'd had an interview at that point maybe maybe he was trying to like manifest it into reality maybe the job's mine he's truly debriefing like he's truly debriefing he's like let me manifest that shit but there's deludo business he's been delusional he's been because you could go to your girlfriend be like look people think i'm gonna get the role yeah like i'm up for it people think i'm gonna to get the role. Yeah. Like I'm up for it. People think I'm going to. But why are you lying? You have worked too hard in your field and you're clearly great at what you do. Do not detract from that.

This is a great opportunity for you. Yeah, that's true. It is a better opportunity for you. And in terms of advancing your career, this seems like the most logical option. Great. So I would take the job. Now, how are you

going to navigate that with the family so this is all on your brother like this is all on your brother he's massively jumped the gun and he should be the one that's embarrassed not you yeah this isn't your fault you've just been put in an unfortunate position because he's jumped the gun yeah so i would say i would classic sibling i'd go to your mom i'd go to your mom or dad and be like look this has happened and i don't know how to broach it because then they could probably chat to him yeah but also i would say to him why don't you go back to the panel that interviewed you yeah because yeah i'm maybe a bit confused maybe play innocent because they've just offered me this and drawn up a contract well done well done and i want to sign

it yeah yeah but does this mean we're going to be both heads of marketing well done play idiot play play idiot play the village idiot because does it mean that we're going to be both heads of marketing maybe just double check with them he'll double check and go oh i fucked it and then he can put out that fire yes it's not your fault that his girlfriend's happy. Complete, that's bang on. It's on him to go, oh, I've misunderstood slightly. It's on him to look like the idiot there.

However, although I think you should accept, I would have this conversation beforehand. Yes. As in, okay, you can accept, but don't then go into the office on Monday morning and be like, hey, dickheads, I'm head of marketing. Be like, yes, I'm gonna accept, or yeah yes but can you give me a week or whatever yeah have these conversations talk to your parents talk to yes you know oh shit sorry that is a that

is a really sticky situation like i wouldn't i don't envy you can you imagine i don't know why you would go for an interview for a job not here on the the grapevine that they think they might give it to you, and then just announce you've got it. Announce it to your family and to your girlfriend and start celebrating. Her gut knew. She knew. She's like, 18 months, that's weird. That would be strange.

That's weird. I was worried that I thought it was going to go in the direction that she went in for this interview and he was on the panel and didn't give it to her. Oh my God, can you imagine? I thought that was where it was going was going can you imagine that so i'm glad that wasn't the case no no okay i've got one this week i've got one okay i'll ping pong you yep when siblings take the piss of you then copy you oh my sister does it all the time oh what are you wearing what are you wearing honestly it's so embarrassing what are you wearing two months

later what's she wearing the exact thing she called cringe oh that's interesting I love it I'm like you're like what are you doing you're just jealous of my great fashion sense that is annoying that is annoying I know that is really annoying

it's really annoying yeah are you ready yeah okay so mine is when you're in like a public setting with your sibling

yeah and your sibling brings up a story that you know for a fact. Oh. Do not ever fucking, and you know what? I am actually the biggest snake

because I've done this many times. I did this. It was probably redemption here. Yeah. This was my redemption arc afterwards because my sister brought a boy home. Yeah. And I said like,

one of the worst things I could possibly say. I'm not even going to say it on the podcast because she'll kill me. I said something and she fucking, like, went red, stormed out the kitchen. She was like, why would you say that? That's so embarrassing. And I was like, yeah. Oh, what? I was like, oh, it's just better, yeah?

Like, it was bad. It was bad. It was bad. It was bad. So that's like an ick to myself because I don't think Lily actually does that a lot. No, no, sometimes she'll be like, tell the story about, you know, when you're a child and you had anger issues.

And I'm like, Lily, like, we, we. Like, Lily, the chair's in the garage. Like, seriously, like, please. Look, I'm trying to be a better person, okay? Let's move on, let's move on, okay? But I have got a quick ick as well, which isn't to do with the siblings, but I've just experienced genuinely

about 10 times this week. Oh. People who cough without covering their mouth. Oh, stop. Pen's down. I can't. You're disgusting disgusting it is weird I've

I'm getting worse with age as well I know I'm 21 but I'm getting worse with age I caught myself yesterday yeah

misophonia moment okay someone was eating like yeah I caught myself in the mirror doing a face

like what I was like and then I caught I was like I was like oh my god and get worse but someone coughed on the tube i was holding on to the thing yesterday and it happened to me like 10 times in the week that i had to say something and they would literally i'd eye me and just went and i went oh and they were like oh sorry i was like cover your mouth

like that is weak and it was like a guy our age and just coughed on my face and yeah i was like cover your mouth like that is weak and he was like a guy our age and just coughed on my face and yeah i was like oh no no no no but if i saw archie do that that would be an egg time no that would be an egg massively okay question time question question silly okay so serious question yeah do you believe that there is such a thing of a healthy sibling rivalry yes i do okay go on i think with anything as long as you aren't holding it against that person i feel it's a hard one but i feel like for me if i was seeing my sibling was doing something it would kind of put an incentive to me to be like okay what's she doing that's working or what is she doing that i can learn from this ah okay rather but then it is very easy to go off the edge being like why is that not happening to me so i i do understand that it could probably

spiral you but sometimes like if my sister did something and was really successful i'd be like oh my god that's amazing um and if i'm trying to do the same thing i'd be like okay well what worked okay okay cool yeah what about you i i agree i think sibling rivalry can be a driving force for success yes um and it can also be a driving force to find your own independence and your own creativity within your own within yourself yeah so i think as long as it's not done in a malicious jealous yeah envious way, you actually can get a lot out of it and you can push yourself quite far. Yes, yeah, I agree.

Okay, silly question. Go for it. So my silly question is, if you had to imitate one thing for the rest of your life that a sibling does, what would it be? Could it be like a talent or is it like a habit? Talent or habit. Okay, my sister is a fantastic opera singer.

So she's training to be an opera singer. Her voice is absolutely fabulous. I would love to be able to just belt it out. Yes. However, I don't think I would be willing to like showcase my skills enough. So then I think I'd be using it. Oh, like you wouldn't be getting your-

Misusing it, yeah. Yeah. Because I'd just be like, guys, i'd get slaughtered and be like did you know yeah i'm this fucking guy so i'm not sure my sister's very good at cooking oh so i'd probably maybe like to take that because i think i could use that yeah you could i could use that yeah and i would use it to my advantage whip off a few like good dishes youits, habits, habits, habits. She's a good swimmer. She's a good swimmer.

I'd love to be a good swimmer. Boom, boom, boom, boom. Because I'm the worst swimmer I've ever met. So yeah, I think cooking, swimming, opera singing when I'm drunk. Yes, love that. How about you? My sister is incredible at knitting like you're joking yeah she knitted me she's knitted me scarf she's knitted me a jumper

um she loves knitting she's great at it i wish i was good at knitting oh my god that's amazing because then i feel like they're the perfect gifts like hey just knitted you a coaster oh that's like it's always so nice and they're really and she's very crafty yeah i'd want her craftiness oh yeah she's very craft she made that amazing sign in your room yeah like she's so great and crafty like that she's very creative so i then i would say i don't know why she's got she's got a really funny face when she's like dis when she's like annoyed that i've always wanted to replicate but i never can and it's usually towards me and the way she says much katie katie katie katie no that is a great you can replicate that katie katie she does but she does this face that maisie can replicate

so well how interesting but for some reason what's the face like it's like you do that face sometimes it's like a and is it annoyed but it's like a frown but it's like a is it is it is it annoyed face is like if she's annoyed like if i say something like she doesn't find funny she's like can i try oh shit yeah and or sure but i wish honestly i could do it like the next time you see it if you could snap a pic because that would make me even more angry i'll be like snap a pic so that i could get a reference honestly yeah like i honestly love it every time she does it i want to die laughing and then when that's what makes it

work honestly when i come home and she's not there i'm like maisie can you do the face oh do you and she's all right and does she do it really well she does it so well honestly my parents are like do the lucy face and she's like i'm like a performing monkey i'm not doing it again the youngest isn't it it's the youngest yeah getting all the attention truly so i like do it again it's the youngest isn't it it's the youngest getting all the attention truly I can do it hey yeah guys what about me

what about me alright what about me okay fabulous episode always lovely with you guys thanks for

writing this week saying what you feel about sibling rivalry we had some cracking stories yes please keep writing honestly did laugh have a great week guys have the best week

I love you so much and we have a really exciting episode for next week yes we have a guest um one of the biggest guests we've had so far i know please please please uh listen in we're really excited love you