The Debrief - What Do You Say To Taking Chances?! | The Debrief Podcast

Episode Date: March 31, 2025

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Welcome to the deep root. We're back. We're back. We're better than ever. Yeah. Yeah. You know what? Filled with lurky. But I think it's just because it's obsessed with bay. I'm just so ready for it to be hot all the time. I don't know whether it's the change in weather. I don't know because I feel like a few days it's been like, that nice and sunny and bright and then it's just like, was it yesterday or the day before? It was like Archie said he feels like he was in a film. It was like, gray and ominous.

I was like, what is going on? It was bitterly cold yesterday. Yeah, it was freezing. The sun came out for a second. Yeah. And then I was like, sorry, too soon, too soon, too soon. It's one of those that you still got to wear your SPF. Always wear your SPF. It's like Devin. Oh my God. My poor little tuxes. You were freezing by the sea by the end of the day. You burnt as a crisp. Burnt to a crisp. Would you like to hear about my dream I had last night? I would love to hear about your dream. Was I in it? Unfortunately, you weren't. No, I'm really sorry to say that. I've been having some wacky,

wacky dreams recently. Really? Yeah, like proper wacky. But last night, I dreamt that I was pregnant. And it was almost like the immaculate conception because I'm still on my pill. Okay. But it was having sex. It wasn't that immaculate. Yeah. But I was still on the pill.

Yeah. And I was pregnant. And it was like two or three days from being like, guys, I'm pregnant, to full on belly going into labor. No, like from. Yes, like from. Yeah. And then I was like, oh my God, this is so scary. And then went to the hospital, literally farted and they both came out.

Oh, I had twins. You had twins. I had twins. I didn't even know I had twins. I thought I was just pregnant. And bear in mind, I had two days to get to grips that I was pregnant. So I was feeling quite overwhelmed. Well, yeah.

I was like, I'm not ready to be a mother. I was like, I can't provide for these kids, for this child. And then there were two kids. I'm like, Oh my God. Anyway, literally like, and these kids come out. So I'm like, what's all the fuss about, about this labor stuff? I was like, I want it done in a second. Anyway, these kids are like, like dolls. So I'm like holding them, but they're not doing it. They're like dolls. Oh, so yeah, weird. I take them to bed with me. Because I'm like, you know how you hear like on programs or your mom's like, oh, I was so scared when you were a kid that

you'd like roll over and stuff. Okay, you know, so I was having that. But they were dolls. Like I'd given birth to these two dolls. Everyone kept saying to me like, oh, they're so well behaved. And I believe they were children. I didn't believe it was a doll. So I was like, thank you. Like, yeah, you know, and I was, I had them on my chest as I was sleeping. And I was like, waking up to try keep them afloat. And I was just like, like this. And then I went to a festival and left them at home. Everyone was like, clearly I've been, although it was two days of late of pregnancy, apparently I put it all online on my Insta. So everyone's like, aren't you a mother? I was like, yeah. I was like, where are the kiddie winners?

Yeah, but the session went as well. Quite right. And I was like, no, so you got to think, I was invested in this festival for weeks. That's true. Just two days. That is true. So anyway, they're like, where are the kiddie wings? I'm like, I don't know. Right here? Yeah. I was like, having a great time. Breastfeeding like between mad.

What a crazy, I wonder what that means. I really wonder what that means. I really wonder what that means, but I really hope it doesn't mean that I'm going to be pregnant soon. Because the festival is throwing me off slightly. Yeah, that's what's throwing me off. That's what's really throwing me off. Because I feel like the pregnancy thing, maybe you've got a lot of responsibility in your

life and you're trying to manage. Oh, that's a good one. That's a good guess. And you're maybe stressed and like trying to manage your stress. Yeah. But the festival. And also my tummy was like, so it went big for like two days and then I popped them out and the instant they popped out, stomach was back to normal.

Oh, snap back. Snap back. Snap back. So I was like, God, this is great. Do you ever worry about that though? That scared me with pregnancy. Like, how long does it take to deflate? I've seen videos of this on TikTok. It takes a good few weeks. Weeks? Shit, really? That's if it does. Well, like obviously it deflates. But like, women sacrifice so much,

man. Oh my God, they really do. Like, I'm at the point in my life where I feel like the changes that pregnancy does to your body would really send me into a tailspin. Me too. Me too. But then also on the flip side, that women who are pregnant are like, but you're carrying life. And that's pretty badass. It is badass. Yeah.

Where you're like growing a fucking human in your tongue. You just need to be rich enough to do what the celebs do. Do the snapback. Completely do the snapback. What fucks me off though is when they're like, had a baby, I'm instantly back to what I am two days later. I'm like, honey, we know you're in surgery. That's okay.

Yeah, it's all right. That's okay. Don't be afraid of that, but just admit it. Because there are others and mothers at home thinking, how did, why is my body not doing that? I know it's crazy. I'm like, come on now. That's what you need to be, you need to be rich enough to snap back quick.

And then you're like, boom. Do the snaps. But I genuinely think I can only do it twice. I've thought about this long and hard. Only twice, I mean, yeah. I've thought about this long, because Archie wants an army. And I'm like, no.

And if we do want an army, we need to look at other an army and I'm like, no. And if we do want an army, we need to look at other options because I'm like, I think men sometimes underestimate that it's like you sacrifice years of your life. Yeah. There was, if you have children close in age, you're more or less pregnant for like three years. Yeah. Yeah. And my mom said she went, she was pregnant with me. Every single day of the pregnancy, she was sick. She was like, I would stand up and it felt like I was car sick.

And I was like lying down vomiting, vomiting, vomiting. That for three years, stop it. Because it's like pregnant for nine months, what you have like two, three months off, get to a year pregnant again for nine months. Twenty-seven months of just like feeling like two, three months off, get to a year, praying again for nine months. Twenty-seven months of just like feeling like that. Yeah. This is crazy.

Because, oh yeah, yeah. That is crazy. I did think the good thing though about having the twins when I popped them out, even in my dream, I was like, well, at least I don't have to do it once. Yeah. That's true. It is true. But do you know what?

I obviously thought it was irony because I've always said I find twins kind of scary. I know what you mean. I know what you mean because it's like they're like brothers and sisters but they're the same age. Yeah. Yeah. They're like all the brother, all the sister like you're just packaged. Especially when they look like identical twins. Oh, yeah. like identical twins. There are these two twins on TikTok that do the we are same.

Oh really? And it's really scary. They look exactly the same. Exactly the same. But I can imagine when you get older it comes in really handy. Like they could paratrap the shit out. Have you heard the story about Rami Malek? No.

So he's got a twin. And the twin was doing like, I might not get the story completely right, but it's along the lines that he was doing that public speaking at uni or something. And he was like, I can't remember shit. My memory's really bad. I get so nervous doing like that. And it was about performing like a monologue and all this kind of stuff. So he literally got his brother in.

So Rami Malek came in, smashed it. performing like a monologue and all this kind of stuff. So he literally got his brother in. So Robbie Mallet came in, smashed it. Like absolutely smashed this monologue. That's so funny. Was really confident, really talented and then just walked out and they were like, wow, you're really good. He was like, thanks. Thank you. I'd do that. I'd use and abuse my twin. Me too. Like for saying it.

Me too. Me too. But maybe too, I'd be like, go to a space where I've got an alibi. Yeah. And I can, or go to me work. Because you'd do my shift for me. Imagine, you wouldn't have to take days off. Yeah, or could you just go in? I don't want to do it. That'd be crazy.

Because I bet if you were identical, I don't think people would realise. I don't think people would. And let's tone of voice, maybe. Yeah, maybe. And I remember there were these two twins that I went to school with and they literally looked exactly the same. But it took me years to differentiate them. Like if you saw one, you'd think that's them. Interesting. I don't think I'd like to be a twin.

It would scare me. Also share my birthday, stop it. Oh no, you'd hate that. I'd hate that. It would be a joint birthday galore. I I hate that. That would be bad for you. Happy birthday Bill and happy birthday Kitty. Bill. Bill. Bill gets celebrated tomorrow. Okay. Yeah, you're right. I was actually thinking about this upon my dream. I was like, if I did have twins, I'd hold my vagina so fucking tight. Yeah. If one pops out at 11.59, I'd be like, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, be like, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it 1201. Boom. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you get two different birthdays. I'll tell you what are my fun facts. So one of the things that I've always thought, oh, yeah. Why? When you birthed out of your mother's legs? Are you then born? I think you know, and then a year later, you're then one.

I think from the day of conception, surely that's your first day of living. When you've passed out, surely you're nine months old. Interesting. But I suppose it's like life on earth. But it's still been on earth. It's just been- Oh, that's going to send me to a tailspin. This is what I felt for a long time. It's living. It's still there. Like you are living.

It's got a heart. It's got growing lungs, growing legs. Maybe, but then you're not like fully grown until you're born, are you? Not fully formed, yeah. Yeah, okay. Okay. Oh, I'm going to be thinking about that. I'm going to be carrying that with me. I don't know what differentiates as being older and stuff? Okay, yes, but the time for conception and stuff, but whether you're premature or whether you take a bit longer or do I mean? How that impacts. I think when I'm popped out, I'm not nine months old. I've been developing for nine

months. Yeah. Yeah. And then you're getting released into the world. Yeah. Interesting. It's not just like snap fingers on the 18th of July popped out, no. For months before. You've been prepping, you've been doing the work. I've been doing the work.

Locked in. Doing the groundwork. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Big time. Right, should we actually get into it? Yeah, let's crack on. Let's crack on. Oh God, that was a love of mine, sorry guys.

What is your, what's your mantra? Okay, my mantra for this week is to do with the theme, which we'll get on too soon, but it's embrace the unknown. Oh, I love that. Yes. I think we go through life not knowing a lot. And why do we see that as a negative? We see, we should see it and embrace it as a positive.

Yeah. Do it again. I can't wait. I think what's coming for me. So exciting. Embrace it. Embrace it. I love that. How about you? What's your mantra? My mantra is as well related. It is you miss 100% of the shots you don't take. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Sometimes you just got to ask. Yeah. You just got to ask. I did that. I really wanted to ask someone something and I was very nervous about it because I was like, oh, I don't want to come off as too

intense or like, just ask. Ask and ye shall receive. 100%. Sometimes it's really scary though. Like take your shot and your shot. Because you don't want to seem like demanding. This was more in a professional capacity. So I didn't want to seem like demanding or like overstepping, but then I was also like, but if I don't ask, I won't know. 100%. Yeah, got you. And my song for this week, again, to do with the theme is, take a chance on me. Love that. And the first thing I do is just take a chance on me. Just thank you. Yeah, thank you very much. Bye now.

Take a chance on me. Bye. ABBA. ABBA. Sometimes you just need a bit of ABBA in your life. Always. On the daily. Always.

Trotting along. Yeah. That in your ear. Yeah. Fucking loving life. Inspiration. Thank you for the music. Happiness.

Take a chance on me. Hornyness. Give me, give me a man. Sadness, the winner takes it all. All you could do, all you could do, slipping through my fingers. Depending on if you're losing a relationship. You see, it's just for every day. There's ABBA for everyone, every day. How you know it. Exactly. Yeah. My song. Tell me. Is the Glee version. Has to be. What do you say to taking chances? Oh, what do you say to jumping off the edge? I think it's Kelly Clarkson song. I don't know actually. Taking chances.

I only know it from the Glee version. Fucking off the Glee version. But it's an absolute banger. Who sang it in Glee? Oh, come on. Lea Michele. Rachel Berry. Oh, I love it. It was a Rachel Berry classic. I remember you said, Katie, you reminded me of something just then. And she was saying, oh, I've got people keeping secrets because we were watching this show. What was it? Ruby? Oh, Ruby Franky. Yeah. On Disney Plus. And we watching it and we were saying to each other like people keeping secrets is like, I'm watching a show about it is one of the most stressful TV shows to watch. And then Katie was like, yeah, but in life, like holding secrets is so scary. I was like, yeah, it

really is. Like it can be really, and we were having like a proper convo and Katie was like, honestly, the moment where it really triggered me was Camp Rock. And I can't even express to you. Katie, I'm so glad that's the most trauma you've ever had. I'm literally, I can't even express to you the feeling I had when I was younger, watching Camp Rock, feeling sick for Mitchie, Demi Lovato's character, because I was like, fuck Mitchie, you're going to get caught out girl. You're going to get caught out. Don't lie. You could put yourself in this situation

Oh, I think it's cuz I think it's cuz I related on a deep level where I'm like like telling a fib and getting caught out Demi Lovato, I was like as soon as she was like my mom's famous and did and lied about the fact her mom was the Kirk I was like Fuck, I think that's why dear Evan Hansen gets me so hard as well where he just gets embroiled in this light it makes me sweat yeah it makes me ass cheeks clench like I can never rest I love camp rock I love the music but I don't watch it a lot now I would but I'll be remember we tried to get the boys into it and they weren't into it. It's so annoying sometimes. I'm like, play along. Yeah, play along. Play along.

Do we get wreckers? Yes. So this week's recommendation is... Tell me. New, new job park. I feel like I've got a new job, guys. Oh my God. I feel like I've been wearing loads of different hats, but I tried bar core for the first time and I can't remember if I told you this. So basically,

bar core is a pilates workout. It's ballet bar pilates infused. I've been taking classes and trembling. It's actually really humbling. I don't know it works by like working you out to like muscle exhaustion, similar to like Pilates. Okay. So you just keep going until you physically can't anymore. And my legs I'm like, is like flexibility with like ballet. No, you don't really need flexibility. Usually just use the bar for like stability and use some like very basic ballet terms. Okay. But it's so much fun. But I was told that like, I could get this like membership for free. And I can't get the membership until I pass my probation.

Stop it. I know. I have to wait. So I can come take classes at the studio where I work at. You have to prove yourself. But I can't like take because the you get more than bar with the membership you get bar reformer cycling boxing I have to wait three months. I know you do you do your diligence I know I'm gonna have to really like put put the elbow grease and have to put your work in a full full into it lock in and then I'll get that because you get a guest membership as well because I was gonna give you the guest membership. So we could go be fucking reformer

baddies in art. So well, I'll be timing you I'll be saying Katie, you got to do it for us. Yeah, no, honestly, I really want to quit and you're like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no winner breadwinner breadwinner coming in with the job parts in clutch. I'm at home like are you going to provide for me? Yeah, and then we can book on and we can go do our little reformer. Get your weekends together. And literally, yes, get weekends. Guys, I'm literally I've been in a hole of like two part time jobs that I've not really enjoyed that much. And I'm coming out of the hole. A brand new woman.

It's all happening. Can't wait for you. I'm so excited for you. So shall we? Let's do it. Are you ready? Yeah. Let's be brave. Okay, my lovely. This week, we are talking about taking chances. Take a chance on me. So making the first move, asking difficult questions and doing the thing you are most scared of. And if you're listening, that is the first thing that just popped into your head. Do it. Do it.

Do it. So, making moves as women can feel very empowering. However, fear of rejection is very real. Oh, gotcha. Don't I bloody know it. 100%. And we wanted to speak to some of you guys where you have reaped the rewards of taking the leaf of faith, whether that be work relationships or anything else.

But I wanted to firstly ask you, have you ever taken a leap of faith, made a first move, whether that be like romantic, professional? I can't really recall romantic. I've been lucky that romantic. I've been lucky that maybe I've put feelers out there with guys interested in. Yeah, maybe that be eye contact or like, yeah, flirtiness. But I've never felt I've had to make the move. Yeah, I felt like there's been a vibe and they've always done it. Yeah, I'm like, fantastic. So romantic wise, I've been happy as Larry that I don't need to do that. The professional wise, I guess something comes to mind like that happened last week that was actually quite nervous. So I went to this casting and it was a big casting director.

I won't say her name, but and she was really, really nice. She was lovely. And we really got off. We got on really, really well. And throughout the whole, you know whole session, she kept coming to sit next to me and we were having a really good vibe. And anyway, at the end, I was always saying to myself, like, come on, ask her to come to your show. Like, say, invite her. And I was so nervous, like the point of like, I was like, oh, no, come on, come on. I went

to the toilet and then I was like, right, go for a wee really quickly. Like, yeah, shake off, come back in that room and go straight over to my god. Well done. So I literally like, I was like, come on now. It was in my view as well. Oh my god. Oh my god. Brilliant. So many memories. Oh, fuck. Went to the toilet. I was like, okay, went for a wait. I was like, right, you've got this. Walked straight back in. Someone was like, Oh, okay. I was like, just give me one sec. I'll come. I was like, a woman on a mission went in. She was free. I went straight over.

I was like, hi, thank you so much for today. I just wanted to invite you to the show I'm in at the moment. I think you'd love it. And she was like, I'd love to come. Like give me your details. And I was like, she was like, I'll contact you right now so you've got it on.

But she was like, I'd love to come. Let me know which day. She was like, and I'll be there. And she was like, I'd love to come. Let me know which day she was like, and I'll be there. And I was like, honestly, I was like, took a deep breath. Yeah, I was seeing my parents and my sister afterwards. So I was like, I told them and they were like, yes, well done. Yeah, it just sometimes you've really got to egg yourself up for it. Like, come on, come on, come on.

It's so scary to do that. The first time I went into a club underage, I was terrified. Yeah. And I went around the corner and counted to 20. And at the end of 20, I was like, you are now 18. I was like, you go up to that. I was like, you've got your fake ID. You are 18.

I have the confidence. And I got in. I was like, yeah, literally. I was thrilled. I was honestly thrilled. I think it's so hard, especially like in the performing industry, really going to like hustle for yourself and like who you are. And that does involve having to ask, ask the questions. Yeah, yeah, it really does. And it's fucking terrifying. Come on, just do

it. Just do it. Just do it. Like just go come, come on. And then I did it. I said, Oh, that's okay. And especially yes, because she was so lovely as well. She was such a nice person. Yeah, she was really, really down to earth. She was like really my vibe anyway. But even then, it wasn't like she was a scary person. She came across so lovely, but I was nervous. Yeah, because I said, I don't want to come across pushy or yes, or a bit baggy or all of that. And then afterwards, I just thought, you know, you're doing what's best for you. Absolutely. Be brave, be brave. I feel like I would love to see you go up to a man and be like, you want me. It's funny. I've made first moves in terms of like, I've gone in for a kiss fast. Yeah. Like, I've done that, but I've never ever soberly.

Good now. Gone up to a man and been like, hi. Like, how are you? Or even drunk, to be honest, like, I'm usually like chatting to someone and I'm thinking, oh, like, are they going to kiss me or are they not? Should I just do it and then I'll do it? But approaching a man, for that, no, for that, I honestly can't do it. Sometimes I thank the gods that I'm in a relationship because it scares me when my friends tell me what it's like out there. It's so scary and I'm literally just like, I can't, but that is purely like from me,

that is fear of rejection. Yeah. And even though I've tried to kiss boys and got pied, I was getting vibes and like, they did approach me first. So I'm literally like, I couldn't do that. I'm literally it's not like I've gone up to someone, chatted to them all night, tried to kiss them like they came to me first and were flirting with me and then when I tried to kiss them, they were weirded out. See that's weird to me though. That's weird to me because as a woman, like if a guy came up to me and tried it on with me, say if I'm single, and I knew instantly I wasn't into it, I would shut it down immediately. I wouldn't kind of play along with it, play along with

it, play along with it, play along with it, then he kissed me and I'd be like, what the fuck? I think- I would be like- Not that I can't take a pie, but I think in, it's only happened twice, But I think in both those situations, there were extenuating circumstances, which I will believe. I'll choose to believe that I'm like, okay, fine. This is my truth. Delusion. That's got to be it. If someone came to you and they were like, this man over there right now, see that man across the

street and you're like, Oh, yeah. And he's really attractive. Like, that is the love of your life. Like that man right there, say if the universe came to you or like, they were like, this is the love of your life just right there. You either have the option right now to go up to him and say something and to start off right now, or you could lose him and never find him. Like, Well, I think I'd have, you know, fucking like a warlock in a little coat came up to me and was like, you got to do this. Yeah. What would you say? That's the problem. That's the thing. I think I'd be like, I pretend I was lost or something. Okay, nice.

I think that's the way to go. Be like, oh, I'm so sorry, my phone's died. Do you have the time? Yeah, great. Great. That's a good one. Or like, oh, I'm trying to find something that I know might be nearby and then be like, so how are you? Thank you so much for helping me. Sorry, what was your name? There we go. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then Daniel. Oh, hi Daniel. I'm Katie. Lovely to meet you. Thank you so much. Then the train's moving. Oh, may I get you a drink to say thank you? Lovely. Are you free for a coffee? Lovely. Lovely.

Because I know this town like the back of my hand. Food. Food. Food. Yeah, I think I'd have to. I just don't like doing it. Yeah, you would have to. If a little gremlin was like, you have to do that right now. Little toad comes out. Otherwise you might never meet him. Yeah, I think I'd have to but like, fucking hell. I feel physically unwell. I feel unwell. You'd be shit yourself.

It's one of those things that I'm like, I'm not past reaching out and being like, hey, but I... He's like pulling teeth for me. Yeah, 100%. Like, I hate doing it. because I think that's what I find It's one of those things where like we go on a night out and some of our guy friends like Katie Just go up and chat to him. Why aren't you chatting to people? I don't like you know, what are you gonna throw myself as I? That's so that's so I can't do it. I'm not calm. I don't I literally cannot do it. I Literally can

Even if the fittest guy was kept making eyes at me on black, he will come to me because I'm like, if I go, even if you're getting signals from someone, like even if they were looking over and like smiling and being like, I would, cause I would assume I, unless you're coming up to me point blank being like, Hey, how are you? I will just assume you're not interested because I don't want to look like a silly ability. Oh, God. Because imagine, imagine, right, this guy's smiling at me, giving me the eyes, and I'm like, guys, guys, guys, he's giving me the eyes,

he's giving me the eyes, guys. And then I turn around, and then I go up to him, I'm like, hey, how are you? And he was like, what? There's a friend behind him, someone he knows that he's been smiling at. Imagine, that could happen to me. I could see that, I could see that happening on a Sunday. You know what I mean? Like, you've got to be sure. And I'm

never 100% sure. I will only do something if I'm 100% sure it would go my way. And even then, and even then, you never know. I'm like, breakinging in the corner. I'm like, breaking up a sweat. Could you like, help? Okay, cool. So I researched how common it is in a romantic setting for a woman to make the first move rather than a man. And would you like to guess what the percentages? I feel like there are more confident women than me in this society.

So I want to say it's like 45%. Not as high as 45. Okay. 30. That's an acceptable number. I am impressed with this because I'm like, there are a lot of women who are like, yeah, why not? Why not? It would be lovely to be in a world where it was 55th day. Yeah, I mean, because my initial thought was it would be lovely to be in a world where it was 50-50. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Because my initial thought was it would be like 20, maybe less. Yeah. But then 30, I was like, oh, OK, that's good.

But then I was like, no, it should be 50. It should be lifting. We're giving as much as the guys are giving. Do you know what I mean? But in some way, I still feel like I live in the 50s. I want to be wooed. I mean. I want my suit to be outside.

I feel bad for men in the sense that like, I've always been very grateful. And this is like very traditional standards. But I'm like, I've never felt like, you know, like when you're being courted, I've never been like felt the pressure to court someone. I'm like, I love being a woman, Katie. I love being a woman. I love when Arch comes home with flowers, I think as it should be. I love when he smothers me and kisses. I think and you know what? Look, I now I treat him equally as well. But I like to be weird. You like to be weird. I like to be weird. And I think it's one of those things that you've got to

Are you romantic? I think I could be. To get you out? Sometimes. Okay, cool. Because you know when you're just like, this isn't me. Really? I don't know. I feel like I'm a very like acts of service kind of love language.

Like, okay, I'll do your washing. I remember you like minstrels, so I got minstrels. Like you said you were stressed and I noticed your laundry basket was full. I'll do your wash. I'll put your wash on. Okay. Like little things I feel like,

and I'm like, that should show you enough. Words of affirmation, no chance. Don't care. Don't care for them. I care for them. Like I would love to receive words of affirmation Give them okay. God no and your parents romantic No, again, they're very acts of service, which is where I think I get it from

Very acts of service, but they're not very physical touch and they're not very words of affirmation so I don't think I'd have to be knee deep. To be like, Oh, I really love you. No, fuck. Yeah. I'd have to I can't write like, since meeting you guys, I've started writing more sentimental cards. But before that, like, you wouldn't catch me dead writing a sentimental card at all. See, I think this is probably where we differ because my parents, well, you know it, are the king and queen of physical touch. Yes. And words of affirmation. Yeah. I love my words of affirmation. You do. I give it and I receive it. You're amazing at words of affirmation. If someone's

like, I need that, I'm like, right, sit down. Let me give you words of affirmation. Yeah. I've got this. I'm proud of you. You'll be all right. And I'm expected back. Yeah. So therefore, actually, I think Archie was pretty good with words of affirmation from the beginning. Yeah, I think he was pretty good at that all the way through. But that's what I need. That's what I want. I'm like, you woo me. Yeah. Tell me how much you love me. Great. You've done the wash and gray. See, that's what I want. I'm like, you woo me. Yeah, tell me how much you love me. Great. You've done the washing gray. See, that's where we differ. Yeah, the washing is done right. Whatever. Tell me you are in love with me. Yeah. I'm literally like, so would you not be bothered if he was like, wasn't saying a lot? Like, Oh, you look really sexy. But if he was,

I would, I would put it like, second to like quality time or like acts of service. If I came home and my room was clean and he cleaned my room and like lit a candle and like got me flowers, I would much rather that than sit down and listen to how much like everything he loves about me. Stop it. Because I think I get shy. Stop it. If he's like, I love you so much, x, y, z. I'll be like, oh, stop talking.

I'm so talking. Shit. I feel really flustered. Do you know what will spin the system is if your boyfriend, who's about to come into your life, is really words of affirmation. That would spin you in a wringer. That would, because honestly, I feel like I'd push it away. At the start, I think I'd have a really hard time with it. I mean, even

my friend recently started seeing this and when I say started seeing this guy and was like texting him online. Yeah. And they'd organized a day and all of this kind of stuff. And then she sent me the screenshots. She was okay it's too much it's too much i was reading it i was like who is this suitor i was like i was like this is so cute like she woke up and he was like what are you up to today like how's your morning and all this kind of stuff and then like they were chatting and he was like i just wanted to know like what what do you really value in a relationship and i was like like, this is so cute. I was like, look, I'm really wanting to like be present and ask you these questions. She was like,

this is disgusting. And I was like, yes, we all differ don't we? It is different, isn't it? Shall we? Yes. Shall we move on? And so we asked the debrief why they might not always make the first move, whether that be in social situations, romantic or professional. Yeah. So one of the first things that people said was fear of rejection. Big one. Big chief rules my life.

That is your biggest enemy. It is my biggest enemy and it's something that I am working on. We really should do more rejection therapy. I think you gave me an example of someone going up in a coffee shop and be like, can I make this coffee? And then be like, no, Sarah- like, be like, reject it's so weird, though, because rejection in a professional capacity, I can I'm better at dealing with than I used to be like, it is just, I'm like, okay, not for me right now, like fine, like missing out on auditions, fine, like, it's just not

meant for me right now. Getting rejected romantically would eviscerate me. Really? It would eviscerate me. Really? Yeah, I would genuinely like, I would be in bits bits and I would be really butthurt for the definition of butthurt about it. Like at least a week. Like if I really liked someone and I was like kind of pining after them and like really

fancied them and were getting on really, really well and I like laid it all out on the line and was like, so when's this going to happen? And they were like, oh fuck, I just don't see see you in that way. Or I will never see you again. Yeah, that's so interesting. It would kill me because I take it but I would take it personally. Well, of course. Yeah, of course you take it personally. I mean, I think I think it would be I think a bit weird if you didn't. Yeah. But I think you would take it personally in a way that's not what they're thinking. Yeah. So you'd be like, I'm so fat. I'm so ugly.

I'm so unlovable. When they're just like, no, like, I love who you are. And yeah, but I don't want to be in a relationship with you. Yeah, I'm like, yeah, fine. Yeah. But you would be like, I'm an ogre. I'm literally an ogre. No, literally. So that's that fear of rejection. My hometown. I get it. The other one is, is that how you say it? Societal expectations. So like you said, wanting to be courted. But again, what's the saying? Well, I think it's interesting that there is an expectation that men should make the first move.

Yeah, there is. And I don't know if that should be an expectation or we should try, I mean, it's 2025. And I've listened to many podcasts, I've talked to many men who have said how attractive they find it when a woman approaches them. Yeah. And I find it fascinating. And whether that's because it's so unknown to them and whether it's so... extraordinary, it's almost like a kink because it like it's something that they never really experienced.

Yeah. So when it is, it's like, oh my god, this feels naughty. Yeah, we shouldn't be doing that. Yeah. You know, so I wonder whether that's it. Although I spoke to one guy who said he wouldn't enjoy it. He wouldn't have liked coming up to him. Because he would have found that was my job. That was something I should do. Yeah. And he can be, he compared it to a proposal. Like I would never want a woman to propose to me, I'd find that that I know. I know. So then it's so hard. I mean, it's all so individual, isn't it? Yeah. And because there are societal expectations that, you know, I'd be like, well, if you're into me and you're giving me the odds and you're trying to talk to me for what I'm saying,

but I think I've been, he would probably be like, why won't you? I have, yeah, I have a toxic trait that like, I just assume like fear of rejection is exclusive to women. And I'm like, no, men, men can be nervous too. Like men probably get nervous. I like again, like we've had conversations with our male friends and you said like they're, they like being approached, but I'm like, I think what's interesting as well is that, and maybe this is something about me, but if a guy and many of my friends have male friends have gone up to women and tried it on, not in that way, but asked for their number or tried to chat them up,

and they've not been into it. And no one has really batted an eye. It's not been like, Oh, God, how embarrassing. It's been like, good on you. Like, shoot you shot or half and then get on with our night. Yeah. If a girl in my group was that I'm going to go up to that guy. And I was like, Oh, shit, go on then. Yeah. And then chatting him and he was like, I don't know. And she came back. I'd be very wary. Like in the sense of guys, just let you know, just because child up this guy, he said, No, be careful of her feelings. Yeah, maybe that's more on me. No, but I be like, Oh my god, are you okay? It would it would potentially send me home. You'd go home after that. You'd say you've got a headache. Can you be off? I'd

be like, I thought I was saying so you would I just might be gone with that. Like, you'd never see me again. I'd be like, Have a good night. I'm off. Like, I don't know, like, and it's definitely more of a me thing that it like bothers me in that way. But I am in awe of women that are like, fuck it, why not? I am in genuine awe, because I'm like, good on you. that if I went up to a guy, I was reflecting then, and there's only one time I've done this. And I knew why he wanted me. So that's the difference. I was completely in the unknown area. You're not in uncertain waters. No, no, no. I was not in an uncertain mindset. I was like, he's giving me the eye, I'm giving him the eye, let's go on with this. So I think that's the only example I can think of, but I'm certain that

I'd get good results. If I didn't think I'd get good results, I don't think I would have done it. No, similar to that guy in redbacks. I was certain that was going to go my way. If I'm certain it's all going handy dandy. Yeah, yeah. Fine. I'm like don Juan, you know what I mean? Like Casanova. You're like, easy breezy, fucking beautiful. You're like, but if there's someone that I kind of fancy and I have no clue where I stand, I'm doing the least. I'm doing absolutely nothing.

And I mean, this is the third point of what the listener said about it's the uncertainty. Exactly. And that's what you've touched on is because you think if I'm not sure, well, to be honest, it makes sense. It makes sense in the sense of like, would you do a driving test if you hadn't prepared? Well, you wouldn't. Yeah, like you want to feel that you're going to get good results. And I think that's kind of normal. Yeah, quite human. Would you do a GCSE exam and go in without revising? Most people would have, you know, but you probably wouldn't

because you know, you wouldn't get a good result. Yeah, I think it's just all about the unknown. And you don't really know. Yeah, you can't read someone's mind. So you don't just get the vibes. And like, and even then if someone says to you, well, we've heard such and such likes you, even then you can trust those people, of course, but you're like, but did they say that because they were drunk? Or did they say like, you're like, why didn't they say it just to me because they said it to my face then at least I'd know. Yeah, when the vibes are murky. Oh, there's no way you're catching me doing anything. No, it's so scary.

If the vibes are uncertain, uncharted territory, uncertain waters, no, I'm not going to do it. Absolutely. If they're uncertain, they can come back to me when they are certain. And then I can catch the vibe. Oh, yeah. And then don Juan's back. Easy peasy. Like no problem. Fabulous. Should we go on to dynamic? Let's go on to dynamic. Yeah. Okay. So debriefed dynamic is of course, are all about topics. It's all about shooting your shot.

Yes. Now, I've got one girl email in and she said, Hi, kissing Katie. I hope you're having a great week. I need your help because I'm in the middle of an absolute disaster and I don't know how to dig myself out. So here's the dilemma. I've been texting this person, let's call him Sam for months. At first, it was just innocent chats. But the more we talked, the more I started feeling the insane attraction. And then it happened. We went on an

office trip together and well, we ended up shagging. I know, she goes, I know, I know, I shouldn't have done it. Oh, I shouldn't have done it. But the chemistry was undeniable. And we got caught up in the moment. Okay, so sexy. Really sexy. Now things are way more complicated than this, because I know you girls will be doubting we go why I said it was a mistake. But Sam is in a long term relationship. And although he's been sending me seriously 30 texts ever since that night, and even talking about it and recalling things that happened saying he wants to do it again, he's made it clear he's very unhappy with his partner. He's been complaining about how stale the relationship is and how he feels he's stuck. But here's the thing, Sam hasn't

done anything to end it. And now we're caught in this messy web of late night texts and stolen moments at work. We even kissed in the staff room, but I can't shake the feeling that I'm just waiting for them to make a move. The problem, I'm starting to fall for him. I know I shouldn't, but every time we test it feels like we're heading towards something bigger. He even talked about taking me away. He's got a holiday home and he said he'd love to bring me there. But I'm afraid of what will happen if anyone finds out about the fling from the trip, especially because Sam is still in a relationship. By the way, I haven't met her or ever met her before, so it's not like I'm friends with her. Do I take the leap and shoot my shot risking everything for a chance at something real? Or do I cut things off before

I get dragged even deeper into this mess? The tension is killing me. And I'm honestly scared of where this could go. I think I'm falling for him. What should I do?" He needs to break up with his girlfriend. Yeah, he does. with his girlfriend. I think you need to, I think you're, although I don't believe in ultimatums per se in relationships, you're technically not in a relationship. So I would say give an ultimatum and be like, listen, you either end this because what you're doing isn't right or fair to either of us. But I want to let you know that if you were to end it, I'd be very open to exploring being in

a relationship with you. Yeah, I agree. And look, I'm going to do the negative here. I know I'm a positive poly, but I'm just going to say it's not a great way to start off a relationship. The fact that, okay, he's saying the relationship's still and he's not enjoying it, but he is cheating on her. Yeah. It's not a great way to start a relationship. The fact, okay, he's saying the relationship's stale and he's not enjoying it, but he is cheating on her. Yeah, it's not a great way to start a relationship. The fact that he's cheating on someone with you. Yeah. It makes me doubt what when we start are you gonna cheat on me like with someone else? I think and also I'm sorry to say it, but is he also texting other people? Yeah, that's a really good point. How do you know you're not the only one?

Yeah. What I would say is, I think, yeah, do what Katie says. If you're, as you said, you're really starting to fall for him. I think you need to give him this ultimatum. Yeah. And then afterwards, give him the cold shoulder and see how he responds. If he's like, not fucking bothered and really, to be honest, nothing's changed, then I'm sorry, darling, you were just a shack. But if he's like, right, I'm making moves, I'm liking you, I've ended it with this girlfriend, she's blocked, blah,

blah, blah, blah, blah. Great, let's start. I think the only other thing I would warn you about is that when a man speaks badly of his ex, it's a bit of a red flag. My examples of men who've speak spoken really badly and even verbally abused their ex, they've usually been the one who was the problem. So I would just keep that in mind and also just not that you should test him, but just make sure you remember what he says is the issue with her. Maybe he always says, she's got trust issues, or maybe he says, she's a bit psycho. Why do you think she's psycho?

He's cheating on her. Yeah. You know, so when, not when, but if he starts to fling these words at you, just remember, just remember. Keep that in mind. I would say, of course, there are good endings to these situations, you know, people are young and people can change. So I'm not saying that he's a he's not a nice person. I think he can change. And there are

situations sometimes when these things happen. And then they end up falling in love and have kids and get married. And that's that person. And they were just like, yeah, I wasn't with the right person. Yeah, I did kind of sleep with her while I was seeing the other girl. I just knew this was my person. Great. But I think you really need to establish that you only want to be with him. Yeah, that he should only be with you. Give this ultimatum and see what he says. Exactly. Good luck. Yes, good luck. Are you ready? Yee-x. Okay, I've only got one ick this week.

I've got one. Okay, I'll ping pong you this week. Oh, thank you. Are you ready? Yep. Okay. Mine is. Tell me.

Not listening. And then being like, making the, oh no, seriously, wait, what? I'm so confused. What? Listen. Now this feels very mean because I've been teaching this week and the kids I teach are young, right? And this is why guys, I've quit my teaching job. I don't understand when I'm explaining so very clearly, so clearly, so beyond clear, like the clearest I could possibly explain anything. And you can tell they're not listening. And then I start the thing and then it's just pandemonium. About 10 minutes it took me to get them back on track because they all weren't listening. It took me about 10 minutes to explain. then started going, then they all got confused. 10 minutes to go back

and be like, this is what we're doing. And then we ran out of time. Oh, for goodness. And I was like, guys, it's not that hard. It's not that hard. Oh my God. I get what you mean. I'm like, but I did it. I work also with adults and the same thing happens. I was trying to give someone like an induction because they were late and it was their first time. So I was like, I'll walk you through how it all works. And I could have been speaking to that woman. Really? And I again was being very patient and they kept coming out and out and out of the studio, but I don't understand what's going on. And I'm like, I don't know. I can't hold your hand and do the workout with you. Yeah, I'm really sorry. I don't know what else to tell you. I was like, there's an instructor in there.

You just got a lightness. Oh, God. Yeah. Okay. You ready? Yeah. Okay. So my week this week is to do with the theme. And it's like, if someone can't more maybe to do with the dilemma, but if someone, if you're voicing a concern and instantly it's defensive. Well, I only did that because you were late. No, no, no. And that's not usually me. That's not normally, that's not really what I'm like. But I only did that because you had an attitude.

So we gave it just, just, just take it on board. Apologize and move forward. Yeah. No, I didn't. No, I only did that because you had an attitude when you came in and when you did that, then it made me feel, what am I supposed to, what am I supposed to, what am I supposed to? Listen. You're going to get hit.

Listen. You're going to be hit in the face in a second. Okay. Listen. I can't take it hit. Listen. You're going to be hit in the face in a second. Okay? Listen. I can't take it. So that's mine. It's so jarring.

Oh, it's so annoying. Right, should we do questions? Yeah. Questions. I'm silly. I am serious. Okay, ask me. Do you think that risk versus reward should be applicable to like, do you think it's worth it?

You know, if something's a huge risk and you don't know, like, I'm going for the reward, you know, and someone's like, oh, I'm unsure whether I should take this or do this. And you're like, oh, risk versus reward, like, you never know. Do you think every situation is actually worth it? versus reward, you never know. Do you think every situation is actually worth it? I know this is a really hard answer, but it really depends on the situation. Because again, if it's this dilemma, and it's him being like, yeah, I just really want to shag this girl. Should I? I'd be like, no, you've got a girlfriend. So then I'm like, no, that's not a risk worth taking in my eyes. But I think sometimes you, that's why they call risks, because you don't always know what the outcome is going to be. But whether you have a good result or a bad

result from it, you know you can, and you know you can do the rest. So I would say day to day risks, not anything unsafe like going on a motorbike when I've never been on a motorbike. I'm saying like, asking my boss for a pay rise when you know you deserve it. Do it. Absolutely do it. You could have been taught, the guy or the woman who's in charge, you could say, no, we don't think that's appropriate. Okay. Fine. Then because what you could get out of it is say, what do you think I need to improve on in order to get a pay rise? Yeah. Then they tell you then you know, and she said, I haven't been doing that. I haven't been turning up to the meetings with my own ideas. I've just been prepared with what they want me to have. So maybe now I know this. And I do this for the next few months, maybe then I will get a pay rise. Exactly. So I would say day to day then yes, I would. Yeah, you

can get a good reward out of it. Okay, so my CLE question is, if you shoot your shot, and it misses, but you get a reward out of it, and the reward I mean, free week of coffees. Oh, or free free week of massages, or free shopping free food shopping for a week. One, what would your item be that you would choose? Great question. And two, would it give you more encouragement to shoot your shot more? Think, fuck, I'm gonna go up to this guy and I'm gonna be like, can I get your number? And you think, fuck it, if he says no, at least I get a week worth of toilet roll. Oh, God see, yeah, I would absolutely be more encouraged to make moves. Great, great.

moves. Great, great. If I did, I'm stuck between like free coffee. Yeah. I remember it's for a week. For a week? Yeah. Kate would be taking shots every day. You want to go on a date with me? Yeah. Yeah. Hey stranger. Yeah. Want to go on a date with me? I would say either free coffee for a week, or I would say free massages or free pedicures. Lovely. I would say facial, but I feel like you wouldn't get your money's worth for a week because

you don't even go once. You don't even go once. Yeah. I really want a facial. Me too. I might go get a hydro facial. Oh my God, do it. Yeah.

I want to feel clean. Yeah. Oh, I love her. I agree. I think it would give you more motivation. It would. Unfortunately, it's something that I can't provide, but maybe you could say to that man, look, if you don't say yes, I'd appreciate some coffee. Yeah. You know what I mean?

But then watch me get a few in though if people do say yes and then I can't get the thing. Yes. I imagine the guy's like, yeah,, I'd love to I think you're really attractive Then you'd be like it because I don't like words after my affirmation and to know I don't get my coffee No, I don't get coffee or massage. What am I gonna do? What the fuck? Honestly, right guys, you got to the end of the app. I hope you have a fabulous Do-sus day Beautiful words. Thank you. And we can't wait to see you next week. Yes. We love you. Love you. Remember to shoot your shot. Shoot your shot. Bye.