The Decibel - An Iranian woman’s death in custody sparks global protests

Episode Date: September 27, 2022

Protests are spreading across Iran – and the world – after the death of 22-year-old Mahsa Amini in police custody. Mahsa was picked up by Iran’s morality police on Sept. 13 for allegedly not wearing the proper hijab. Three days later, she was dead. People have taken to the streets demanding justice for Mahsa, and, more broadly, justice for women living under Iran’s strict hijab laws.Jasmin Ramsey is the deputy director of the Center for Human Rights in Iran. She tells us why this incident has caused so much outrage, what Canada and other international communities are doing in response and whether change to the Iranian regime will come from these mass demonstrations.

Hi, I'm Mena Karaman-Wilms, and you're listening to The Decibel from The Globe and Mail. Protests have been ongoing across Iran for almost two weeks now. Some women have burned their hijabs and dozens of people have been killed in clashes with police. It's the greatest challenge to the Islamic Republic that we've seen in years. Jasmine Ramsey is the deputy director

of the Center for Human Rights in Iran, which is a nonprofit organization that documents human rights violations. Jasmine's based out of Washington. These protests in Iran all started after the death of a young woman in the country's capital. Masa Amini was 22. She was called Gina. She was from the province of Kurdistan,

and she was simply visiting Tehran with her family when she was arrested by the Morality Police. The Morality Police are a branch of law enforcement who enforce the state's rules on modesty. She was allegedly arrested for not wearing a proper hijab, but it's important to note that the Morality Police really operates with impunity, and their arrests are completely arbitrary. She's arrested and put into a van. Her family is told that she's being taken for so-called re-education, and that she would be released not long after.

But what happened is that just a few hours later, she's in the hospital, unconscious. And just a few days later, she's in the hospital unconscious, and just a few days later, she's dead. Police have said that Massa died of a heart attack, but Massa's family said she had no history of heart trouble, leading most to believe that she was killed while in custody. Protesters are furious at the injustice. Jasmine will help us understand what's been happening on the streets of Iran and where this all might be headed. This is The Decibel.

Jasmine, thank you so much for speaking with me today. Thank you. And thank you for covering this story. So there have been protests across Iran and in other countries, including here in Canada. We saw protests in Calgary and also in Ottawa. Why has this incident sparked so much outrage? It really speaks to the crisis of impunity that runs rampant in the Iranian government. You know, a woman can be arrested for her alleged improper hijab and die in state custody, and nothing is done to address the roots of this kind of violence. There's no space for people to air their demands and their grievances without being faced with a violent presence of state security forces on the streets.

This death of Masa, it really became a rallying cry. So many people have been touched by the kind of repression that we saw lead to her death. And they're all coming into the streets and speaking out. I just wanted to ask you, what got you into this work? I was reporting on Iran before I had the opportunity to join the Center for Human Rights in Iran. I am myself Iranian. My mother was among the women who organized one of the major protests against the compulsory hijab shortly after the revolution of 1979. So although I do live outside the country now, I very much respect the people and I'm honestly just watching in awe

the courage of them to stand up against this kind of violent repression to demand freedom and basic rights. And can you give us a sense, I guess, of how widespread these protests are? How have they grown over this past weekend? They've truly exploded across the country. They've hit major cities and small towns. It's important to note that women were front and center of these protests, and several women are among the so far 54 that have been killed since September 16th. And we're on day 10 as we're speaking now.

They are overwhelmingly dominated by young people, university students, 16-year-olds, 18-year-olds, and some of whom, of course, have been shot dead. But they also include other members of society, older people, working class, middle class. It's really touched every facet of the country. They are protesting by walking into the streets, calling for an end to the dictatorship, calling for women's rights, for human rights. And the government has responded with state security forces, heavily armed forces all throughout the streets, all over the country. And there has been some clashes between the two groups. And you say you said that over 50 people then have actually been killed. And I don't want to say that that number is the definitive number.

Iran is under an Internet blackout. Phone access is cut. And so the numbers of deaths that we're able to account for are really just the tip of the iceberg. It's important to remember that in 2017 and 2019, there were also mass protests. Initially, the numbers sort of trickle out. In years past, hundreds of protesters were killed, thousands were arrested. What have you been hearing from the ground, from protests within Iran, despite the difficulties of actually getting in touch, getting in contact with people there? Yeah, so there are some means of some people to get info out, and then sometimes the

internet goes in and then it goes out. People are sending us clips showing real violence on the street, state security forces pulling women by their hair and pushing them into the ground very forcefully. Armed state security forces aiming at crowds of people and shooting water cannons, pellet guns. People are sending all sorts of forms of clear abuse by these forces against the people. So this, it must take real courage to go out into the streets to know that's the kind of

response that you could be facing. Especially the women, because the compulsory hijab was introduced shortly after the revolution as a pillar of the revolution. And instead of allowing it to be a choice, as it should be, the Iranian government has turned it into a tool of political repression. So when a woman walks out into the streets in Iran and removes her hijab, or cuts her hair, or does anything that the state doesn't like, she meets much more violence from the state than

someone else would. And that's why in a lot of these other protests, we do see women protesting by cutting their hair. Could you just, I guess, explain the significance of that, Jasmine? Yeah, there's one clip that I can't help but remember, as you say, that at a funeral for an 18-year-old, a boy that was killed while protesting, his sister is crying over his grave and she starts to cut her hair and her hair is falling on his grave. I think what she's saying there is, what did you have to die for, for my hair? And that's really, this is a resounding call against the compulsory hijab in Iran. We'll be right back. Let's talk about the morality police, Jasmine. What exactly are the morality police? Right, so they have nothing to do with morality and everything to do with repression.

There's simply another extension of the security apparatus in the Islamic Republic that's used to pressure and keep people down and to not allow freedom of expression in this particular case, which is, of course, the way that people would dress. They're the reason that Masa Amini was taken into custody in the first place. How prominent are they in Iranian life? They were established in 2006 under the president of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. They're a unit of the police, and they're everywhere. You can be walking down the street, minding your own business, and they'll show up out of nowhere and start accusing you of not wearing the proper attire. And suddenly you find yourself being forced into a van and taken to a so-called re-education center, booked at a police station, photographed.

And basically what they're trying to do is terrify people so that they don't do this again. And do they only enforce women's behavior or are men targeted as well? Certainly men can be targeted. You can be targeted also for displaying public affection with someone who is not your family member, really, it's completely arbitrary. It's really based on whoever that specific person is, and they can take issue with anyone. But of course, overwhelmingly, it is women who are targeted. And so what is it like for a woman living under this kind of authority? You have to live in constant fear, which is why there's so much courage being displayed right now by these women it comes to women's rights and political freedoms, in particular in Iran, have things, I guess, gone backwards?

Is that the right way to put it? I don't know. Well, I think one thing that you're speaking to is the greater show of groups like the Morality Police that have come onto the streets since the president of Iran, Abraham Raisi, called on all government entities to more strictly enforce the hijab. So Abraham Raisi came into power in 2021. Basically, he was picked. Iran has elections, but they are not free nor fair. He is really a representative of the old guard. He's accused of mass atrocities against people. He's accused of being on this inquisition-like committee in the 1980s that sent

prisoners who had already been tried and prosecuted to their deaths based on answers that they gave to a panel of Islamic judges. So this guy has a really, really dark history of repression behind him. And despite that, he was made judiciary chief. So that's what he was before the presidency. And now here he is. And he's really been sent to take Iran back to the times of the 1980s when repression was more rife than it is now, and where the state had much more ability to keep people down. They treated women as second-class citizens. Suddenly, women who were judges were no longer allowed to be judges. And in both law and practice, women are treated as not equal to men. And so, again, this is the anger that you're seeing on the streets is a clear response to that.

It makes me think we somehow always end up fighting these things along the rights of women's bodies. I think about the abortion question in the States as well. It always seems to be this is kind of a flashpoint or the thing that we end up talking about when it comes to broader freedoms. This is the thing that's restricted, women's bodies. Yes, I mean, exactly. Women's bodies have been a battleground since the inception of the Islamic Republic.

And there's so many actions that the states takes to keep them in isolated positions in society, to keep them in the home, to keep them as just child bearers. Of course, on the other side, women in Iran are among the most educated in the Middle East. It's simply that they have to operate in a country where there are no legal protections for violence against women and where there's institutionalized repression of women from all factors of the government. Yeah. I wonder about the response from the international community to everything here and especially in regards to negotiations around the Iran nuclear deal, which is, of course, that would be the lifting of international sanctions on Iran in exchange

for restrictions on the country's nuclear program. These negotiations are currently underway to reinstate this deal between Iran and the United Nations Security Council. Are these negotiations under any kind of threat, do you think, because of the situation? Certainly not. For years and years, the international community has treated Iran as just a nuclear file, which has been to the preference of the Iranian government. for Iran to be called out, for the officials to be called out on the repression that's happening there, for them to release political prisoners, to allow the UN special rapporteur into the country, to allow people to express freedom of speech without the threat of state violence. And we've heard that the US was putting sanctions on the morality police. And actually, on Monday, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau also announced new sanctions on Iran, including on the morality police as well. So what effect do these sanctions actually have?

So these are means of putting a target on these groups. Certainly human rights sanctions should be kept on officials, target the officials who are directly implicated in these cases. But beyond sanctions, what really needs to happen right now is the UN Human Rights Council should establish an independent and international commission of inquiry to investigate the deaths of protesters in Iran and establish whether other mass and gross human rights violations have been committed there. Since 2016, there have been large demonstrations in the country for a whole wide range of reasons. So, you know, the state of the economy, rising fuel prices, water shortages. I guess I'm wondering, is there a sense on the street that change will come from these protests that are happening today? It's very difficult to predict where this protest movement will go.

That really depends on the extent of lethal force that the government uses to repress them. But certainly there's a sense of hopefulness in the chance that you're hearing, especially by young people in Iran, who are risking their lives to demand social and political change. I guess I wonder what you'll be watching for next. This young woman, Masa Amini, her name is now a household name around the world. People recognize her name. Where do you think this movement is headed next, Jasmine? It's an evolution of a movement. And where it's headed next, it really depends on the protesters and the people of Iran, what their demands are, and whether the government would heed them. But keeping that pressure on Iranian officials to stop violently repressing protests and to allow protests to call for the freedom of

political prisoners, which are stationed all around the country. That's extremely important. And to, of course, amplify the demands of the Iranian people on the streets to not just report on Iran as a nuclear issue. Jasmine, thank you so much for taking the time to walk through this today. Thank you. And before we go, an update on pandemic public health restrictions. The Canadian government announced on Monday that it's lifting all border restrictions related to COVID-19 as of October 1st. This includes vaccine requirements and mandatory masks on planes and trains, though masks are still recommended. This made us wonder,

what are your questions about COVID-19 now? Send them to us at thedecibel at theglobeandmail.com and we'll do our best to get them answered. That's it for today. I'm Mainika Raman-Wilms. Our producers are Madeline White, and we'll do our best to get them answered. That's it for today. I'm Mainika Raman-Wilms. Our producers are Madeline White, Cheryl Sutherland,

and Rachel Levy-McLaughlin. David Crosby edits the show. Kasia Mihailovic is our senior producer and Angela Pachenza is our executive editor. Thanks so much for listening and I'll talk to you tomorrow.