The Decibel - Can Avi Lewis bring the NDP back to life?

Episode Date: March 31, 2026

On Sunday, the New Democratic Party elected Avi Lewis as its new leader. He takes the reins of a political party still reeling from losses in last year’s federal election, which cost them official party status and left them with only seven seats. Another blow came earlier this month, when Nunavut MP Lori Idlout defected to the Liberals. Without a seat in Parliament and overseeing a party with minimal resources, how Lewis will rebuild the party and what it will look like remain big questions. So today, we’re convening a panel with Campbell Clark, The Globe’s chief political writer, and Robyn Urback, a current affairs columnist for The Globe. They join the show to talk about where Lewis might steer the NDP and what it all means for the party’s future. Questions? Comments? Ideas? Email us at [e-mail] Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

On Sunday, the NDP elected its new leader. Please welcome the new leader of Canada's NDP, Le Nouveau-NPD, Avey Lewis. Globe reporter Tamor Durani was in Winnipeg for the announcement. In this room is just jubilant. You can hear it behind me. Avi Lewis is the new leader of the NDP. That means changes on the horizon.

You can really feel it here while I'm here. Okay, got to go. I think they're doing some NDP. ADP chance, Avi Lewis is about to speak on stage. Friends, if it isn't already obvious, we are building a new foundation for our party, and we are ready to come roaring back on the Canadian political stage. Jubilence aside, the NDP is in a challenging position. They faced a crushing blow in last year's federal election.

They went from 24 seats to just seven seats. They lost official party status and their leader, Jugmeet Singh, stepped down. Then, earlier this month, they lost another seat when Nunavut MP, Laurie Idlout, defected to the Liberals. So, Avi Lewis has his work cut out for him. Today we've assembled a panel to discuss the NDPs Path Board. Joining me today are my colleagues. Hi, I'm Campbell Clark, the Chief Political Writer in Ottawa. Hi, I'm Robin Arbach.

I'm a current affairs columnist here at the Globe and Mail. And I'm Cheryl Sutherland, and this is the decibel from the Globe and Mail. Hi, Campbell. Hi, Robin. Thanks so much for coming on the show. Thanks for having us. Hi. And so we're speaking just after Avi Lewis's first press conference on Monday morning. So now that a new leader has been chosen, Campbell, who is Avi Lewis? Well, I mean, Avi is NDP royalty in the sense that his family,

his grandfather and father were the federal leader and the Ontario leader of the NDP respectively. And Avi Lewis has been sort of on the periphery of the party for a while himself. He is a, I guess you'd call him a filmmaker. He's been a television host on both Much Music and CBC and Al Jazeera, in fact. And he was the co-author of something called The Leap Manifesto, which was a was a sort of document to prod the NDP further left roughly a decade ago with a group of people, including notably his wife, Naomi Klein, who's a well-known author.

His father and grandfather, interestingly enough, were the establishment in the NDP that fought back against sort of the left-wing movements, the waffle, was what it was called back then. And Avi kind of represents the opposite in that he's now the left-wing activist sort of fighting the establishment in the party. And he's won. Tell me a bit about that because he is quite left wing, right? Robin, I'll bring you in here. Tell me a bit about his politics and his policies. As you say, he is sort of the more ideological choice, the more sort of extreme left choice,

at least that was presented during this leadership race. The second, the runner up was Heather McPherson, who, of course, already has a seat in the House of Commons. And that was sort of her big pitch to elect her as the leader that she is established, she is there. She already has her foot in the commons. Avi Lewis, he has tried twice before to be elected as an MP and he was not successful. He actually came in third each time.

And his ideas are pretty out there, right? He's talked about opening public grocery stores, public banking, publicly owned cell phone companies, all of these things during the English language debate during this leadership race. he called Canada sort of like a militarized petro state. And he criticized the direction that Mark Carney is taking Canada under his leadership. So he is definitely, I would say, the most sort of left-wing leader that this party has seen. It's going to be a challenge, though, for the NDP, because he is definitely sort of like a faculty lounge guy and not a factory floor guy. As much as he sort of talks the talk.

He really comes off as sort of like, you know, the champagne socialist having a dinner party with his friends talking about, you know, the plate of the working class. There's a little bit of a disconnect there, which I think will be a challenge in terms of him connecting to the wider electorate. The other challenge for him, though, is sort of like an intangible personality challenge. And that's the harder one to address, right? Like his ideas, interestingly enough, they kind of echo some of the idea. that we've heard from Zoran Mabdani in New York, the new mayor of New York, who has also talked about public grocery stores. He talks about free daycare, free public transportation, all of these things. Mabdani has garnered this sort of cult following, though. And I think he's done that in a very

organic way. Like he comes across very genuine on video, which is a very hard thing to do. Campbell, what do you think here? Because we are in a moment where parties are increasingly defined by its leader and, you know, a leader with that, je no se quo. Does Avi Lewis have that or does he have what it takes to, I guess, inspire and excite? So, like, a lot of the things that Robin just said about Avi Lewis were true about Jack Layton, too, in the early 2000s. He was seen as an urban politician, latte drinking and disconnected from the workers. Ralph Goodell, I remember, called him a Toronto stuntman. That's actually become part of the modern tradition of the NDP, that they are more.

more at home in the faculty lounge than on the shop floor. It's been true for a long, long time. Would you say that that changes over time? Is that what happens? So, look, I mean, it's just that there wasn't as big a distance, I think, between those things as there is now. Like, Ed Broadbent was a university professor, right? There has been a sort of divide in the party that has grown over time between the sort of urban NDP and I guess you would call it the private sector unions on construction sites and certainly you know the farming nDP is kind of long since gone but does all those have some of those things well it depends i guess on what your goal is because presumably his goal his near-term goal isn't winning power even though

the nDP says it is if you're looking for somebody to bring the party up a few percentage points and win 12 seats and i think that's you know to get party status in the house of commons Maybe because one of the big tricks for the NDP is going to be punching through, getting heard, getting attention when they have been squeezed out of consequential politics in Canada. Now, I'm not saying that's going to happen, but I do think that there is a chance that when they're down on the ground and in danger of disappearing, it's possible the fact that Abby Lewis, you know, has neon sign politics on the far left. will at least sort of get them some attention. I think what's interesting about Evie Lewis's election is just when we look at how this leadership race has been run, when it first started, I think there was a broad assumption in Canada that we would be facing a spring election, that something would happen and Carney would go after

that majority this spring. So whoever won this leadership race would be immediately thrust into an election, would have to immediately introduce him or herself to the electorate and try and win over as many people as possible. And if that were the case, I think moderate choice would do much better because he or she would be able to bring those soft voters or would at least be better able to bring those soft voters back to the NDP. It looks as though that's changed, though, because the electoral math has changed. And now we have a couple of by-elections coming up. It looks as though Carney's going to get that majority anyway. So we're not going to have that spring election, which means that we're going to have a few more

years before Canadians head to the polls. And with that time, the NDP really has the opportunity to rebuild itself as a party before it rebuilds itself as an option for Canadians to consider either as a governing party or as an opposition, perhaps leader of the opposition, I do think Avey Lewis is the right choice for the next couple of years if you're looking at rebuilding the party. because the problem with the moderate or someone who doesn't inspire people with these bold ideas is it's really hard to galvanize the base, appeal to the grassroots, get people out to volunteer, to organize, to donate, especially. Those donation dollars and the donation of time happens when people are inspired. And they're inspired by ideologues. They're inspired by people who put out big, bold ideas, not moderate ideas that would appeal to the widest swathes.

of Canadian. So I actually do think in the short term, short term meaning maybe the next three years, Avi Lewis is the right choice to rebuild the NDP from within because he will engage the people who felt so disillusioned by the way the party has gone over the past, you know, 10 or so years. Challenge for him will come when that election comes, right? If Canada is still in the sort of centrist mood that we find ourselves in now and if conditions sort of stay the same, that will be the real challenge for a guy like Avi Lewis who is not the moderate choice. But I think for now, trying to get those dollars up, trying to get those bodies working for the NDP again, he is actually the best choice, I think, that the party could have gone with.

We'll be right back. So the NDP, you know, is rebuilding itself. It also has an opportunity right now to differentiate themselves from the liberals because Kearney has moved the party, the Liberal Party more to the center. So there is an opportunity here for the NDP. Campbell, what are the issues the NDP can successfully champion right now? Like, what do you think they should focus on? Well, you saw in the press conference today and a little bit in the first appearance that Avi Lewis made yesterday when he won, that he wasn't talking about the Green New Deal and government grocery stores. He said we will be laser focused on the cost of living crisis, which is sort of everybody's everyday concern. So that was a lot of. So that was a lot of

like really sort of trying to push back to the sort of ground level. And he actually borrowed Mark Carney's line, right? Carney running for the leadership of the Liberal Party said we will be laser focused on the economy. And now, Avi Lewis is laser focused on the cost of living. Being laser focused, I guess, is a good thing for a new leader. But that is like a way into a lot of issues for the NDP. And if you saw what happened immediately after he was chosen as leader announced his leader. leader, you know, all those provincial parties sort of dissociating themselves from Avi Lewis, he needs to have something to talk about on an everyday level that will, you know, unite the NDP thematically and build people back thematically. And, you know, cost of living is a good way for a left-wing populist to go at those kinds of things because the rich are taking advantage

of us, I'll say, in moderate globe language, is, you know, a traditional populist. refrain of new Democrats and social Democrats. And there is definitely that sentiment in Canada. So I think he's going to keep pushing hard on that. He's made it clear today that this idea of a Green New Deal. And let's remember how big this is. He's talking about putting 2% of GDP, so on the order of $65 billion a year, into transitioning the economy through public transit, green technology. One of the phrases was heat pumps for everyone. employing a million people in doing so on the public tab. So, like, that is a big move to state economy.

Government grocery stores, I think, will probably be something that he talks about less for the next few months. But really, I think what he's going to talk about is we need to change the economy so that it works for the ordinary person. And we can only do that through greater state involvement. Robbie, want to add anything there? Yeah, I think the challenge for him, though, in talking about the cost of living is that that's what everybody's talking about. about, right? Like Pierre Polyev is talking about that. Mark Carney's talking about that. They just have different solutions, right? And the risk, I think, is in getting his voice sort of drowned out by all of the voices talking about these things. Granted, his solutions are very

different. But there are other issues as well about which, or for which, rather, there has been very little coordinated opposition. So, I mean, if you just think of, like, defense spending, for example, the conservatives have not come out against that on plans for resource extraction and transport and pipelines, you're not going to find the conservatives opposing that. There are more sort of specific ideas. Like a few weeks ago, the government announced that refugee claimants, for example, are now going to have to pay very modest co-pays for extended health benefits like prescriptions or dental care or vision care. And there was no opposition to that, which was really interesting because the Harper government way back when tried to

to do something similar. And there was a chorus of opposition from physicians, from other members of parliament, the court got involved. So it was a whole big thing. And now this happened and there was barely even a blip, right? So the NDP could be a dog with a bone on these issues. The problem is the dog doesn't have a way into parliament right now. And this dog is also leading a pack of six that may be five if the NDP loses, it's one and only MP in Quebec. So it's in a difficult position, but it's not for lack of opportunities to sort of distinguish itself from the government and from the official opposition. It's just a matter of capturing the public's attention, keeping that attention,

speaking in a way that really communicates their values to them, and that resonates with the average person and making sure that they are seen as sort of. of a viable political entity again, which is a tough thing to do when you've just experienced the worst loss that you've ever had in your party's history and when you don't have a seat in Parliament. So certainly an uphill battle, but there are opportunities to distinguish themselves, certainly. In terms of making an opportunity for those things, well, we've seen what NDP leaders can do and have done when they don't have a seat in the Commons.

And one of the things they can do is they can show up at the House of Commons and go stand in front on the microphone and people will clip them as well. You know, they'll get on the news. Which is what Jack Layton did, didn't he? Jack Layton just showed up. That's what Jack Layton did. You know, on a regular, it just showed up and is like, hey, what are you doing here? But, you know, when he is presenting a different viewpoint, he gets on the air.

He did get it on the air sometimes. And it has an impact if you are saying something that others are not. There's also this dynamic between the federal NDP and provincial NDP leaders. Campbell, you talked about this a little bit earlier. But I'm talking about Saskatchewan NDP leader Carla Beck, who revealed that she declined to meet with Mr. Lewis because of his position against resource development. We have Alberta's NDP leader, NADNC, who also was saying that Lewis's victory signals that the direction of the federal party is not in the interest of his province. And then there's BCNDP Premier David Eby, who is also reiterating that his province is planning to boost jobs and mining resources and tech. and these are three sectors that Mr. Lewis has criticized.

So there's a lot going on there. How does Lewis navigate these relationships? Seems like they're already on rocky footing and that's just begun. Yeah, it's funny to listen to his responses because he's been pressed on this a couple of times since he won. And he basically says, I'll meet with anybody. But when he's asked, are you going to change your policy approaches to energy to resource extraction, to pipelines, etc., he sort of skirts the question. And I mean, provincial new Democrats are a different animal. They're much more pragmatic.

They're much more electable, frankly, and electorally successful. They're the official opposition in Alberta and Ontario and the governing party in Manitoba in BC. And, you know, I think that tension is going to be there as long as Avi Lewis maintains these positions, which I don't see him sort of abandoning any time soon. And I think it speaks to this longstanding tension within the NDP itself, whether it is sort of a protest party or a governing party, whether it is a party of ideology or pragmatism. And I think when we think back to the way that Tom Mulcair ran his campaign in 2015, for example, I mean, it's funny to think now, but he was the party leader who was advocating for balanced budgets, whereas Justin Trudeau leading the liberals was talking about running deficits. And Tal-Mal-Mal-Kaire was talking about decriminalizing marijuana, whereas Justin Trudeau was talking about legalizing marijuana. So, you know, during that election, liberals seemed to be to the left of the NDP.

It was a much more arguably electable NDP, but the party itself wasn't comfortable with this. They got rid of Moucair and they sent him packing, I think. Even though he did sort of well, I mean, not as well as, as Jack Layton under the, with the orange wave, but he still held on to a lot of the party seats. And it's interesting to see the differences between the way the party views Jugmeet Singh, who delivered the NDP, their worst electoral results ever,

and Tom Mulcair, and there seems to be an affection and affinity for a Jugmeet Singh who didn't deliver for the party electorally, but stayed sort of true to its principles ideologically. and the way that it views Tom Mulcair, and Avi Lewis obviously is an example of that, who is sort of like an outcast within the party, even though he delivered a decent result for the party in 2015,

but he didn't stay true to their ideological principles. Too much of a professional and not enough of a believer, I think, was the problem of Tom Leakear. You know, it was interesting to see on Sunday, when after Avi Lewis was named leader, you could sort of see these statements come out And it was sort of in order of who decided whether we're going to apply the 10-foot pole or the 20-foot pole. The 20-foot pole went first.

Right now, he'd and then. And she said, no, this person is, Abby Lewis, is bad for Alberta, Carla Beck said, I won't even meet with them. And then David Eby and British Columbia sort of had this more. His priorities are not the same priorities as ours. That is, like, not just a problem for, you know, sort of public appearances that there's a schism in the NDP. Because one of the unusual things that Robin was talking about was she was saying these are two different NDPs, but there isn't enough of them to go around sometimes. So one of the odd things it's always seemed to me about the NDP

is you'll find the same people working for the Saskatchewan NDP as the Ontario NDP or the BC NDP, and they'll move around sort of the professional staffing class, the long-term veterans of the party. They will move around from place to place because that is the way the NDP has worked. Now, those people were not on the side of Avi Lue. Right. Avi Lewis got one endorsement from a member of parliament. Most of the veterans and staffers were very worried about what he represents for the party.

So it seems to me that, you know, he has, Abby Lewis has an institutional problem as well of sort of, you know, convincing the people that have made the parties run to work with him. It's not just that you need David Eby's endorsement, although, you know, that would probably help him. Or Wob Canoes. It's that these people have all sort of been. in the community of the NDP and the backbone of their workers. And Avi Lewis doesn't really have those people working for him yet. That's going to be a problem because you do need people and staff and workers and volunteers and all those things when you're trying to rebuild a political party and especially when you try to get elected.

Okay. Final question for you before we wrap up. So a year ago, we were in the midst of the election campaign that would lead to the crushing of the federal NDP. If we were to cast forward to a year from now, what would the signs of Avi Lewis running a successful NDP look like? Well, I think it would probably, some of the signs would be, aside from an increase in the polls, which, you know, kind of matters a lot to them, would probably be, you know, some sense of the youth

coming back to the NDP, some sense of, you know, there is a movement, even if it's a small vein of movement, of excitement for Avi Lewis. you know, there has to be some sort of feeling that things are moving for the NDP because otherwise what's the point of Avi Lewis? He's supposed to be attracting attention and, you know, giving them a mission again. And if there isn't some sense that, you know, people are starting to organize around that, you know, maybe not all across Quebec, but in Rosemont la Petrie or in a couple of ridings on Vancouver Island, in Vancouver, they're not going to win back the sort of heartland

of support on the prairies that, you know, the Manitoba NDP or Saskatchewan NDP might hope to get. But the federal NDP has to have some sense that they're, you know, vibrant again. Robin, a final thought to you. I think a good indicator is going to be money, frankly. Sorry, NDP, but money still seems to be one of those indicators that tells you the direction of a party. And even, you know, Lewis mentioned himself that his campaign had garnered over a million dollars in donations and that money speaks to, I think, commitment, energy, organization, all of those things. It's a signal that things are moving in the right direction. But frankly, I think the NDP is going to spend a good amount of time in the electoral wilderness for a while.

It's going to be a couple of election cycles. I think if they can move back to official party status, that will be. an enormous win for them because that unlocks speaking time in the House of Commons. It unlocks committee appointments. It unlocks money for staff, for office staff to actually get things done. I think the real challenge, one of many challenges actually for the party right now is that I think the social climate in Canada and in a lot of democracies, they sort of ebb and flow, right? And I think we are in a time in Canada now where the population, for various reasons, is, you know, and a lot of democracies, broadly in support of pipelines, broadly in support of cuts to immigration,

is sort of looking the other way when it comes to disregarding some sort of climate targets or initiative. Certainly there wasn't broad opposition to cutting the carbon tax, for example. So it is kind of out of step with what the NDP stands for and certainly what the NDP will stand for under Avi Lewis. And the party really has two options. Option one is just to wait until that social climate, swings back to where it was before, maybe, under Justin Trudeau, when there was more of a public appetite for public ownership and more progressive ideas. And that's going to take a long time, a couple of election cycles at least, or the bigger challenge is to try and bring the Canadian

electorate to where the NDP is ideologically and in terms of policy and policy ideas. And that's a much bigger challenge, right? Because when you don't have the attention of the electorate, electorate, when you don't have official party status, when you don't have a seat in parliament, you need to get all of those things before anyone really starts to pay attention to you. So I think it'll be a long while yet before we see the NDP is a viable political entity again. Robin, Campbell, thanks so much. Thank you. Thank you.

That was Campbell Clark, Chief Political Writer for The Globe, and Robin Urbach, a current affairs columnist for the globe. That's it for today. I'm Cheryl Sutherland. Finn Dermot is our intern and associate producer. Our producers are Madeline White, Rachel Levy McLaughlin and Mahal Stein. Our editor is David Crosby.

Adrian Chung is our senior producer, and Angela Pichenza is our executive editor. Thanks so much for listening. And if you like this show, tell a friend about it. It helps us reach new listeners, and we want to get the word out.