The Decibel - Canada’s role in working towards a two-state solution

Episode Date: November 20, 2024

In the midst of the Israel-Hamas war, the idea of lasting peace between Israelis and Palestinians seems farther away than it has been in a long time. But there are still people working to create the conditions for a two-state solution; among those are Canadian troops, working in the West Bank in a mission called Operation Proteus.Claire Porter Robbins is a freelance journalist and former aid worker. She’s on the show to talk about what Canadian soldiers are doing in the West Bank, how the operation has changed since October 7, and what it means for the prospects of a two-state solution.Questions? Comments? Ideas? Email us at [e-mail]

Since early October, Israeli forces have been focusing their military efforts against Hamas in the northern part of the Gaza Strip. It's created a situation that the UN called apocalyptic in early November, due to the, quote, imminent risk of dying from disease, famine, and violence. Earlier this month, Israel ordered more evacuations in northern Gaza. A strike on Beit Lahia in northern Gaza killed at least 30 people on Sunday, according to a local hospital director. Meanwhile, in Lebanon, Israel hit central Beirut this past weekend, killing Hezbollah's chief spokesman. Hezbollah's attacks have also continued on northern Israel.

One woman was killed and 10 people were wounded after a rocket hit a four-story building in the city of Shvaram. Israel's military said Hezbollah launched more than 100 projectiles on Monday. Amidst all the fighting since Hamas's attack on Israel on October 7th of last year, the efforts towards peace have seemed further away than ever before. But there are people still working towards creating the conditions for a two-state solution. And among them are Canadians.

Canada has troops in the West Bank, part of the Palestinian territories, through a mission called Operation Proteus. It's part of the United States Security Coordinator, which works towards a two-state solution, a separate Israeli and Palestinian state. Claire Porter Robbins is a freelance journalist and a former aid worker.

She interviewed the head of the Canadian mission in the West Bank, Brigadier General Frederick Pruneau. Today, Claire joins us to explain what Canadian soldiers are doing in the West Bank, how the operation has changed in the last year, and what it all means for the prospects of a two-state solution. I'm Mainika Raman-Wilms, and this is The Decibel from The Globe and Mail. Claire, thank you so much for joining us. Thanks for having me, Mainika. So what exactly is this military operation that Canada is involved with in the West Bank?

Can you just give us kind of a high level overview here? Right. So Canada has been a participant and a contributor to the United States Security Coordinator for about 20 years. It was formed after the Oslo Accords. And what the Canadians do, and it's called Operation Proteus, is provide the training and support to the Palestinian security forces. That includes Palestinian Authority Police, Civil Defense, Presidential Guard, and others. And from what I understand, Canada is one of nine countries that are involved in this mission here. So Operation Proteus is like the Canadian contingent. Is that right? That's right.

So the big players are the U.S., the U.K. and Canada. But Canada is the second largest some years and sometimes the largest troop contributor. And how many Canadians are involved in this mission? There are approximately 30 Canadians. It varies a bit year to year. And that includes folks from the Canadian Armed Forces, the CAF, Peel Region Police, the CBSA, the Canadian Border Services Agency, and even the Department of Justice. Okay. And Claire, I understand that I guess you first kind of learned about more of this in depth

when you were actually working as an aid worker in the region a few years ago. Can you just tell me a little bit about your work there? Yeah, so I've been an aid worker in the Middle East and in the Balkans for a couple of years. I started in Jordan working on the Syrian response. And then I worked for an international medical organization as based in East Jerusalem. But we had clinics in the West Bank, in Nablus, and then Hebron, and also in Gaza. So I would travel between those clinics and those operations. But being based in East Jerusalem, I understood that there were Canadian military presence there.

And, you know, I'd meet them at parties and at social events. And I, you know, as someone who thought they knew a bit about the conflict, I had no idea that there were Canadian forces in Jerusalem and in the West Bank. So let's talk a little bit more about that then. How did this mission, I guess, come to be? So this mission was part of the Oslo Accords, essentially. So Oslo Accords happened in 1993 and 1995. And they sort of set the framework or a roadmap to a two-state solution with Israel having territory and the Palestinians having territory. And part of that promise was that the international community would help the Palestinians develop their security forces so that they could say to Israel, look, you have a partner in peace,

you have a secure border, and we're going to help essentially make that happen so that when a two-state solution happens, you'll have a partner for peace on your borders. Can you just remind us, what is the status of the Oslo Accords today? This is the idea of a two-state solution to create peace in this region. Yeah, that's a really important question because those Oslo Accords were signed 30 years ago. We're farther away, I believe, and many experts believe, from realizing the objectives of the Oslo Accords, a two-state solution, than we were when they were signed 30 years ago. So even before October 7th of last year, things weren't in place to see this happening. That's right. And if you look at the polling numbers among young Palestinians, young Israelis, they are far less likely to believe that a two-state solution would happen in their lifetime or even to support that objective than their parents and their grandparents. When it comes to the peace process here, Claire,

there's often a line that we hear from the Israeli government that they don't have a partner in peace, and therefore peace can't happen. So this mission that we're talking about, Operation Proteus, that's where the Canadians are involved here, this mission is essentially, is it meant to help create that peace, I guess, that partner in peace? Yeah. In Condoleezza Rice's memoir of the years in which she was Secretary of State, she said that the coordinator and the training mission were so successful that Israel could not say

that there was no partner in peace in terms of the Palestinians. But the objective is really that when other parts of the Oslo Accords have been fulfilled, that those final steps, they can say, look, your borders are secure. The Palestinian security forces will be able to fulfill any objectives or concerns you have about terrorist threat or about border security. And that is because we, the international community, have been getting you there. So what kind of work does Operation Proteus do on a day-to-day basis? So the primary objective is for the Canadian Armed Forces to provide training and mentorship to their counterparts in the Palestinian Security Forces. So that means trainings every couple of months, including on things like first aid or human resources management. But they also monitor or write reports on settler violence and contribute to security

related donations like light armored vehicles or building up cellular networks in the West Bank. I just want to go back. You use the term settler violence. What do you mean when you say that, Claire? So settler violence is the phenomenon of attacks by Israeli settlers in the occupied West Bank on Palestinian residents, often for the purpose of forcing Palestinians off their lands. And I witnessed it being there as an aid worker and as a journalist. And NGOs like Faisal Alam, the UN, have corroborated what I've seen in person, which is that the Israeli police or the Israeli forces often aid and abet the violence. And Palestinians really feel that there are no authorities that can protect or prevent it because the Palestinian security forces are not allowed to intervene. And it's become one

of the biggest challenges against the peace process and the realization of a two-state solution. So you mentioned, yeah, the UN has observed this, you say, and B'Tselem is the Israeli Human Organization, also says they've observed this. So when it comes to the Palestinian Authority Security Force, the PASF, how is it funded? Who pays for it? They are supposed to be funded just like how our security forces are funded through taxpayer dollars. How it works in the occupied territories is that Palestinian taxes are collected by the Israeli

government, and then the Israeli government is supposed to distribute them back to Palestinian services. In reality, since before the war, the Israeli government has been withholding some of those tax revenues from essential services. So when I spoke with Brigadier General Pruneau, the Canadian leader of this contingent, he estimates that 60 to 70% police and Palestinian security forces have not been paid regularly or on time or even at all. So a large contingent of the security forces people are relying on are not getting paid. I guess what does that do for morale? And why are people still showing up for work if they're not really getting paid? That's a very good question. And when I spoke with Brigadier General Pruneau, he has the sense that when the Canadians show up, people feel motivated and feel

that there's a boost in morale. He really feels that the international presence in collaboration and working with, training with, supporting the Palestinian security forces is a big motivator for why people are still showing up, even if they're not paid. We'll be right back. When we talk about the Palestinian Authority Security Force, how is this force seen by Palestinians? Do we know? So the Palestinian Security Forces are really not popular among Palestinian people. And that's in part because they're seen as part of the Israeli or the international regime and not really part of the people. They have suppressed Palestinian uprisings. I know that there have been sort of suppression of protests against the war in Gaza. There have been some human rights abuses by police. They're not terribly popular. It's the same situation as they see with the Palestinian

Authority and with the President Mahmoud Abbas, who has not held elections since 2006. At the same time, there are still people who would like to sign up and become recruits to the Palestinian security forces. And part of that is motivated by this sort of patriotism of, okay, I'm going to protect my people and my possible future state. But a major obstacle about that, which Brigadier General Pruneau and I really spoke about, is the fact that, you know, no one's going to sign up if they can't get paid, especially in the occupied territories where poverty is a major issue. You mentioned that part of the reason why not all Palestinians see this organization in a favorable light is they're not always supportive of uprisings. What do we mean by that? When you say uprisings, that could be peaceful protests, and that could be considered terrorist operations. Part of what the Palestinian security forces are supposed to do, of course,

is to contain terrorist threat. Hamas is operating in the West Bank. So are groups like Palestinian Islamic Jihad, Al-Aqsa, Martyrs Brigade, and others. And there are certain cities in the West Bank like Nablus and Jenin, where it appears that the Palestinian security forces have really lost the ability to contain those groups. And that is partially why Israel has increased incursions into areas of the West Bank that are supposed to be under Palestinian security forces control. Let's talk about that a little bit. When we talk about Israeli incursions, what does that mean, Claire? So since the Oslo Accords, the West Bank has been divided into three zones, Area A, B, and C.

And Area A, which is 18% of the territory, is administered by the PA and by the Palestinian security forces. PA being Palestinian Authority. Yes. And incursions refer to when the military goes into Area A under the pretense that they will be capturing alleged terrorist groups or militant groups who are linked to Hamas or PIJ, Palestinian Islamic Jihad or others. And often these incursions, which are typically ground

but lately have involved airstrikes and helicopters and drones, are often incredibly violent and they hugely damage local infrastructure, including water and roads. And I know, for example, Doctors Without Borders has really spoken out against how they have impacted access to health care, including blocking hospitals while these often days-long, sometimes week-long incursions happen. And an important thing to note is that during these incursions, Palestinian security forces must withdraw. They have to immediately back up and allow the Israelis to come in. And that is hugely, hugely damaging to morale for them, and also how they are perceived by the community.

So October 7th, 2023 had, of course, a huge impact on Israel and the Palestinian territories. How has the work of Operation Proteus been affected, Claire? The mission of Operation Proteus, what the Canadian forces are doing there, that has not changed. But the context in which they are operating has hugely changed. It's far more violent. There are far more security restrictions on our Canadian forces. And the level of trust between Israelis and Palestinians is even further decreased than where it was before. Huge increase in the level of settler violence, huge increase in incursions, Palestinian security forces not getting paid, not wanting to show up to work.

Those things are all putting huge strain on the mission. You know, I asked Brigadier General Pruneau about whether the Canadians have been looped into discussions about the day after plan for Gaza, because Operation Proteus is just about security in the West Bank. It doesn't have to do with Gaza. But there is no day after plan as of yet. They floated the idea of the Palestinian Authority administering Gaza, which would mean that forces trained or supported or mentored by Canadian forces would be in control of Gaza. So you mentioned there's been an increase in Israeli incursions, settler violence, and we kind of defined those terms a little bit earlier. How has Operation Proteus been responding to those increases?

So, for example, with Israeli incursions, part of the training mission has shifted to training the Palestinian authorities once the Israelis have withdrawn to providing first aid when Israeli forces have withdrawn from cities where an incursion was happening. In terms of settler violence, I know the commander of the United States Security Forces, General Fenzel, has made settler violence a priority. But when I sort of tried to dig into what does that mean, they monitor it, they write reports. And I know that Canada has announced sanctions on certain extremist violent settlers. And I asked Brigadier General Pruneau if that was because of Canadian forces reports. He couldn't confirm whether that was a single source.

It's impossible, he said, to sort of delineate where that information all comes from because it's a number of sources and diplomatic reports. But something that was interesting to me is when I pressed, what can Canada do about settler violence? What can Operation Proteus do about settler violence? What can Operation Proteus do about settler violence? He said that they're working to put together a sort of 911-like phone service

to report settler violence. But when I asked, you know, who is picking up the phone, who is responding? The answer was that the IDF or Israeli police would be responding. So just lastly, right now, the mandate for Operation Proteus is scheduled to expire at the end of March next year, just a few months away. And this is the Canadian contingent of this mission. So what would be at stake if it didn't get renewed. So I think a big question for the Canadian government is to consider how much we've put into this mission under the guise of a two-state solution, you know, millions of dollars and contributions of troops, and to recognize how much farther away we are

from that two-state solution than when we first began. And that's a big existential question. And then second, what's at stake if the United States security coordinator were not to exist, and Proteus is a big contribution to that, I think that would sort of legitimize any action by the Israeli government to take over the security of the occupied West Bank. And I think that would sort of be the last nail in the coffin of a two-state solution. Claire, thank you so much for taking the time to be here today. Thank you so much for taking the time to be here today. Thank you so much. That's it for today. I'm Mainika Raman-Wellms.

Our producers are Madeline White, Michal Stein, and Allie Graham. David Crosby edits the show. Adrienne Chung is our senior producer, and Matt Frainer is our managing editor. Thanks so much for listening, and I'll talk to you tomorrow.