The Decibel - Dispatch from Jerusalem: the ceasefire so far

Episode Date: January 28, 2025

Phase one of the ceasefire between Israel and Hamas has been in place for just over a week, but so far, it has been incredibly fragile. In the first days of the ceasefire, Israel released 90 Palestinian prisoners, and Hamas released three Israeli hostages. On the second weekend, two hundred Palestinian prisoners were released, as were four Israeli hostages. But the deal hit a snag on Saturday, when Palestinians were set to return to northern Gaza. When Hamas did not release Arbel Yehoud, one of the hostages Israel was expecting, Israel kept the corridor closed. On Monday morning, Qatar announced Hamas will return Yehoud this week, along with two other hostages, and Palestinians began returning to northern Gaza. Janice Dickson is the Globe’s international affairs reporter, and she’s been reporting from Tel Aviv, Jerusalem, and Ramallah over the last week. She’s on the show to talk about how the ceasefire has been playing out for people on the ground, and what’s been happening in the West Bank in the meantime.Questions? Comments? Ideas? Email us at [e-mail]

Phase 1 of the ceasefire between Israel and Hamas has been in effect for just over a week. It's meant to unfold in three phases, and we'll see Hamas release Israeli hostages in exchange for Israel releasing Palestinian prisoners. Humanitarian aid will be allowed into Gaza, and if the ceasefire holds, plans will be put in place to rebuild Gaza. So far, Hamas has released seven Israeli hostages, three women the first weekend and four the second.

I'm leaving. I'm leaving. And Israel has released nearly 300 Palestinian prisoners. But the ceasefire has been incredibly fragile. Palestinians were supposed to be allowed back into northern Gaza on Saturday. But because a civilian hostage, Arbel Yehud, was not released as promised, Israeli soldiers kept the corridor to northern Gaza closed. Late on Sunday, Hamas agreed to release Yehud and two more hostages this coming Thursday. And so, Palestinians were allowed to start returning to northern Gaza on Monday morning.

Over the weekend, US President Donald Trump suggested nearby Egypt and Jordan take in Palestinians from Gaza. You're talking about probably a million and a half people, and we just clean out that whole thing. Egypt and Jordan rejected the idea. Meanwhile, Israel has been carrying out a major operation in the West Bank, one of the Palestinian territories, which isn't covered by the ceasefire deal. Last week, Israeli soldiers raided the West Bank city of Jenin with the aim of rooting out Iran-backed militant groups in the refugee camp.

At least 16 Palestinians have been killed in Jenin and the surrounding areas, according to Palestinian health authorities. Janice Dixon, the Globe's international affairs reporter, has spoken to people affected by the ceasefire. She's been in Israel and the West Bank for the last week, and today we're talking to her from Jerusalem about what things have been like on the ground. I'm Maenaka Ramon-Wilms and this is The Decibel from the Globe and Mail. Janice, so great to see you. Thank you for being here.

Thanks so much for having me. So I know this past weekend you were just in Ramallah in the West Bank. This is one of the Palestinian territories. And on Saturday people were gathering to celebrate the arrival of Palestinian prisoners. They were released by Israel in exchange for Israeli hostages held in Gaza. So can you tell me what was that like? Yeah it was an absolutely wild celebratory atmosphere. There's... Ramallah is very hilly and there's this winding hill and at the very bottom there's a recreational complex. And at this recreational complex there's a big square and the square was just flooded with people, like hundreds of people sort of swarming this area. Then

the buses come and park and then these prisoners were hoisted onto people's shoulders and paraded through the crowd. As there were occasional fireworks, they were chanting and trying to hug the prisoners. And, and, you know, I talked to one man who was serving a life sentence and he was surrounded by relatives who obviously thought that they would never see him. You know, these exchanges that I had with that prisoner with family members were brief because the environment was so chaotic. But these individuals who were released were serving sentences for very serious crimes, including deadly attacks on Israelis. And so it's really important to point out how the release of

some of these individuals has affected people who were impacted by their crimes. I spoke with one woman who told me that one of the men who killed her father was going to be released. She said it was really hard for her. And that was an Israeli woman or was that? Yes, that's an Israeli woman whose dad was killed by one of these men that are going to be released from prison. So you have one group celebrating and another group that's quite upset by what they're seeing unfold. Yeah. And I think it is important you mentioned, you know, there was a number of people who were serving life sentences after being convicted of deadly attacks. There were also dozens of people who were being held without charge.

And so I think that's also just good to kind of give us a full picture of the situation there. That's right, Maynika. I want to just add that I met a woman who was released that first weekend. The first weekend, there were 90 Palestinian prisoners that were released and three young Israeli women that had been held hostage that were released and three young Israeli women that had been held hostage that were released and I spoke to a woman who didn't know why she was in prison and had been there for several months and so you've got people with lengthy life sentences and people who are held without knowing why they're held. And of course this is not a one

to one exchange right for Israelis versus Palestinians. Do we know what the ratio is here of people being released? Yeah, the figures that I've seen reported is that 2,000 Palestinian prisoners will be released. There were approximately 100 hostages held in Gaza, and in this first phase of the ceasefire agreement, 33 people will be released. So a lot of Israelis I've spoken to feel that this is a price that they're paying. I just want to come back to the atmosphere of being in Ramallah as well, Janice,

because you were there just this weekend and giving us a really kind of an idea of what that felt like. Logistically, what was it like traveling through the West Bank these days? Like, I guess I wonder how prevalent are things like checkpoints? What was it like to get around? Yeah, there are, you know, the numbers I've heard is that there are hundreds of checkpoints. A few people have said that there's something like 900 checkpoints. Like, I've not verified that. But, but there are checkpoints that kind of pop up randomly. So for instance, over the weekend, I went to a small town to do some interviews. And when it was time to go, a checkpoint had been set up and there's a long queue. And eventually you're let through.

I was working in Jerusalem before I went to Ramallah and had a colleague in the West Bank come and pick me up and he has an Israeli ID card so he's able to travel freely with that to reach me here. But the checkpoint on his way to Jerusalem, it took about two hours to get through but you know it can take four hours, six hours. Sometimes roads are closed, entrances to villages are closed. It's very unpredictable and it's very humiliating for people who live there that they can't travel from one town to the next. You know, people in Ramallah have said that it's, they have everything they need there.

It's okay if they don't have to leave, but if they want to go to the next city over, it might be impossible. So how unusual is this number of checkpoints? Like, does it always take that long to get around? It does take a long time to get around, and checkpoints aren't new, though a lot of people living in the West Bank have said

that there has been an increase and that has happened ever since the Israeli military began an operation in Jenin in the north. And so the residents of Ramallah who I spoke with in particular and a few other towns have said that since that operation has begun the checkpoints have gotten a lot worse. So let's talk a little bit more than about the fighting that has been happening in the West Bank since the start of the ceasefire. Can you just remind us Janice what is happening and how that has affected things? Yeah well right now there is Israel has a military operation underway in Jenin, which is in the north, and specifically Jenin refugee camps. So they've said that they have an operation there that's targeting Palestinian militants.

And I talked to a few people today who were living either in that camp or nearby and they said that the camp has been completely emptied and that the population was around 17,000 people, their infrastructure has been destroyed, homes have been destroyed, there's a lot of people that have just fled on foot. I talked to one man who was seeking refuge in a center that supports people who are blind. He was there with 15 other families. He actually talked about how he had gone back to the camp to pick up his dog and needed permission was, you know, saying to the soldiers, please, I want to go get my dog had sort of a very quick window to do that. And there's a lot of fear that that

operation underway is going to spread. And so that's sort of the anxiety that is happening there. Now, at the same time, I've talked to a number of people who have described an increase in settler violence, people who've had their cars torched, their homes attacked. People are very on edge and very fearful there. So it does sound like it's a pretty tense situation there. Is there any chance that the fighting in the West Bank, the

things that you're describing, could that compromise the official ceasefire in any way? Well, there's a lot of anxiety around the next phase of the ceasefire deal in general. You know, I spoke with a number of humanitarian workers over the weekend, and they all talked about how afraid they are that this agreement won't hold. We're of course in phase one right now, and they're supposed to start negotiating phase two in a couple weeks here. That's right. Or a week, I guess. That's right. And, you know, in a number of conversations, people have said that they're afraid that

the deal will fall through as a result of either side. You know, it's not totally clear. They just, people are really hopeful that it will hold. Another element of the ceasefire is Palestinians now being allowed back into northern Gaza, which happened on Monday morning. And the other thing is more aid being allowed back into Gaza. Have you heard anything from aid workers, Jan Janice about what's been happening on that front? Yeah, the aid workers I talked to said that consistently this week they've

seen more than 600 trucks arrive on a daily basis. They're getting crucial needs to people who need clothing, who need food, nutritional supplements, I mean, everything under the sun, they're out of hospital supplies, water. And so that's a positive development is that they can get this aid and that they can also deliver it safely and not under the constant bombardment that they were experiencing this whole time. And so, yeah, they are just hopeful that it will continue. We'll be right back. So Janice, before you went to the West Bank, you were actually in Israel. You arrived in Tel Aviv just after the ceasefire went into effect and the first three Israeli hostages

were released from Gaza. What was the mood like when you were there? So the families of these three hostages that were released were obviously overjoyed and we saw that again this past weekend there were four female soldiers who were released from Gaza and their families all put out statements, you know, saying just how relieved and thrilled they were to have their loved ones back. But I talked to a number of families who either their loved one is not on that list of 33 people to come back, or they are and they're waiting. And it's extremely anxiety inducing to know that every weekend there's three people, four people released.

They describe this kind of drip, drip nature of returning people as really cruel and stressful. So while people are celebrating and it's really incredible to see these people return, each day is very stressful for people when they don't know if their loved one is going to come home that weekend. And there's also a number of hostages who are no longer alive. People want answers and they want their loved ones back. Yeah. So you mentioned how it's really difficult because certain families are still waiting to hear if their loved one's gonna be on the list to be released or certain other people are coming home.

I guess I wonder, what is the relationship like between the families of these hostages? Because they've been doing a lot of advocacy work together for the last 15 months. So what is that relationship like? So I talked to one man, for instance, whose brother is still held hostage. He doesn't know if he's alive or not. And I asked him, what is it like for you seeing people return and not having your brother on the list,

the list of 33 people, not knowing if he's dead or alive? And he said, you know, like, the other hostages are like my family. And I've actually heard multiple people say this, that they've gotten to know one another so well through this, that they feel like when they see someone released, that they know them, like they, they've heard so much about them. And so it really brings that they know them, like they've heard so much about them. And so it really brings so much joy for one another to see the loved ones of people who've become their friends through this returned.

Yeah. And I know you also went to a place called Hostages Square in Tel Aviv. Can you describe what that is and what you saw there? Yeah, so Hostages Square is a huge plaza full of reminders of so hostages square is a huge plaza full of reminders of the hostages who were taken hostage by Hamas on October 7th. So there are white tents with their pictures all over these tents.

Inside some of the tents, for instance, I went into one and it was for a particular kibbutz and the people who were in the tent actually rotate through there and educate, you know, if it's tourists or locals on what happened there. There are a couple of trees and there are pictures of the hostages dangling from the trees. There is a tunnel that replicates the tunnels that the hostages have been held in Gaza. There's actually a soundtrack that plays and you can hear fighting. There's pictures of hostages on the outside of this tunnel. There's reminders everywhere in the square of what happened. And there's my understanding is that some of the installations that you see there can

change. But, you know, even on a quiet night, there are people walking around and talking to one another and, you know, taking in this really painful reminder. I have seen videos where relatives of released hostages thank both Joe Biden and Donald Trump for getting the ceasefire deal done. And in some cases, they just thank President Trump, even though Trump actually hadn't been inaugurated when the first hostages were released. A very special thanks goes to President Trump for his unwavering support. Because of your powerful actions, we have our lives back.

I guess I just wonder kind of about some of the politics at play here, Janice. Like how much credit is Donald Trump getting for the ceasefire deal? He's getting credit from almost everyone I've talked to, the families of hostages, the hostages and missing families forum in a press release they issued recently. They also thanked Donald Trump.

And a lot of people are referring to a tweet that Donald Trump issued saying that if the hostages held in Gaza are not released by his inauguration on January 20th, all hell will break out in the Middle East. And so a lot of people are referring to that and pointing to that and feel strongly that he had a lot to do with this. Did you hear anything about how individual Israelis feel about the ceasefire and the ceasefire deal as a whole? I think there's very mixed views on the deal with people who have loved ones who are held hostage. Obviously, they are supportive of the ceasefire because they want to get their loved one back. But at the same time, a lot of

those same individuals have made the argument that the deal really should have been to bring everyone home, not this phased agreement that sees just 33 people while 60 some are left behind. – You're referring to phase one of the agreement, which is 33 hostages released, and the rest which should be over phase two and three, yes. Yeah, a lot of people feel very strongly that Israel never should have agreed to a deal that didn't see all of the hostages released at the outset.

So just before I let you go here, Janice, we've talked about a lot of different things here. But what are we expecting to happen next? I guess the next steps in this phase one of the deal. So in this first phase that's currently underway, we will see more Israeli hostages released. We'll see more Palestinian prisoners released. The same kind of routine that has played out over the past two weekends. We will also see the next phase

of the ceasefire agreement negotiated that's supposed to begin relatively soon. And the hope is that male hostages that are held in Gaza will be released and additionally more Palestinian prisoners will be released. So that's in the meantime the trajectory of how things are meant to unfold. Janice, thank you so much for your reporting

and for taking the time to be here. Thank you for having me. That's it for today. I'm Maynika Ramon-Wilms. This episode was mixed by Ali Graham. Our producers are Madeleine White, Michal Stein, and Ali Graham. David Crosby edits the show. Adrian Chung is our senior producer, and Matt Frainer is our managing editor. Thanks so much for listening, and I'll talk to you tomorrow.