The Decibel - Former governor-general Michaëlle Jean on Canada’s role in Haiti

Episode Date: March 24, 2023

Haiti is in crisis, after months of cholera outbreaks, a fuel and energy crisis, and violence. The UN estimates that 500 people have died in gang violence incidents this year alone. And Canada is facing pressure – largely from the US – to intervene.Michaëlle Jean is the former governor-general of Canada, and the former UNESCO Special Envoy to Haiti, where she’s from. Today, she tells us what led Haiti to this crisis, and what role Canada should have in the country.Questions? Comments? Ideas? E-mail us at [e-mail]

The situation in Haiti right now is dire. Gangs have taken over the capital, Port-au-Prince, where killings, kidnappings and violent assaults are constant. The UN estimates that more than 500 people have died in gang-related incidents since the beginning of this year alone. And things seem to be getting worse. Over a two-week stretch this month, more than 300 people were either killed or kidnapped.

The pressure on Canada is building, particularly from the U.S., to intervene. It's one of the topics Prime Minister Trudeau and President Biden will likely discuss in this week's visit. Today, I'm talking to Mikaëlle Jean. She's the former Governor General of Canada and former UNESCO Special Envoy to Haiti, where she was born. She'll tell us how Haiti fell into this crisis and what role, if any, Canada should play in the country. I'm Maina Karaman-Wellms, and this is The Decibel from The Globe and Mail.

Madame Jean, thank you so much for joining me today. Thank you for having me. How would you describe the situation in Haiti right now? I'm glad you're asking this question because having in mind the context is very important. I mean, the complexity and the magnitude of what the people in Haiti is experiencing right now. We've seen over decades compounding security and humanitarian crisis. Now Haiti faces a severe, very severe gang issue. You have to imagine the population under the constant threat of warlike battles between gangs. And these gangs are criminal organizations.

And these battles, even between the gangs, have claimed a high number of civilian candidates and have effectively hindered all aspects of daily life. This is what people that I know in Haiti, living in Haiti right now, are telling me. It is affecting every aspect of their daily lunch. So these criminal organizations are deeply rooted in politics. These groups are also still in economic need as they provide violent services

that allow the ruling elites to exercise no control over strategic hearings. They operate like a mafia. The mercenary groups are called upon to provide electoral support, for example, suppress opposition, to secure business deals. All kinds of power. The means such as bribery, vandalism, massacres, assassinations, and kidnappings. So we've seen these gangs surging to record general strength. They are embedded in the communities.

They have exploited the extreme poverty. They have exploited the fact that 60% of the population are youths, you know, under 30, under 25 even, with a sense of no future, living in very precarious situations. And these young people become the perfect prey. And by joining gangs, they are paid much more than police officers. So they are also paid in drugs and weapons. And they feel empowered. So they have also exploited every gap caused by bad governance. Insecurity in Haiti is linked to bad governance. I just want to ask you, you mentioned that you're actually in touch

with people on the ground there, Madame Jean. What are you hearing from them? Like, what is day-to-day life like there right now? Day-to-day life is, you're always afraid to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. So people feel at risk constantly, constantly on a daily basis. The capital, Porto Palas, the capital of Haiti is controlled by more than a hundred mercenary groups, criminal organizations, so-called gangs.

And every neighborhood right now is under their control. Before, there were some sanctuary zones that they occupied, but now it's the whole city. The whole city. Kidnapping is a daily risk for people. It's like hell. And people live like rats because they're always afraid of going out and you do need to go out. You have to survive.

So being so close to Haiti still, being informed of what is happening in Haiti is very troubling for me because the situation is one of immense danger. It's a people in great danger right now. Things have really deteriorated in the country since July 2021, when the president of Haiti, Jovenel Moïse, was assassinated. What's happened since then that's led Haiti to this moment? So with the predecessor of President Moise, who was assassinated, he had given total impunity to the Korean organizations, which means that they took the space.

And some of these Korean organizations also received money from political parties and from the president's political party itself. exponentially in Haiti to the situation we are now in, where you have more than 100 of them controlling totally the capital. And they are taking advantage of the weakness of the government. They are taking advantage also of the fact that they are so close to power. And now they have the complete power over the capital. And we're also hearing about outbreaks of cholera, as well as food and fuel shortages. Would you be able to talk about how those play into the destabilization in Haiti as well? Well, it means that the whole country is paralyzed. And what you're seeing is that the de facto prime minister in place

that has been installed by the group of ambassadors of foreign ambassadors in Port-au-Prince, you know, immediately after the assassination of President Rees, decided, decided and announced with a tweet,

you know, that the new person in charge of the state, the head of government, would be Ariel Henry, who was someone that President Moise had considered as his future prime minister. But Ariel Henry has never been, I mean, installed officially. He was not democratically elected is what you're saying, the current leader. And he's not elected. So he doesn't have the trust of the population because it feels as if Haiti had, and indeed has, lost its sovereignty. So he's not popular at all. There's a total erosion of trust towards him. has lost its sovereignty. So he's not popular at all.

There's a total erosion of trust towards him. He has failed in restoring security in the country. He doesn't even have the confidence. He doesn't even have the trust from the Haitian national police. And after the assassination of President Moise, you had a huge mobilization of civil society organizations, over 700 of them, who representatives of the major sectors, you know, of civil society in Haiti. And, you know, what we're seeing right now is a total failure. Haiti is a failed state right now. Sometimes I wonder, you know, how can we come out of this situation?

And definitely Haiti cannot come out of this situation? And definitely Haiti cannot come out of this alone. We'll be back in a moment. So let's talk about Canada's part in all of this. What role has Canada played in the issues that are happening in Haiti right now? Canada has had, you know, like a strong cooperation with Haiti. And when I listened to what the prime minister recently said, that for him, you know, the best way to restore some stability for Haiti is to first sanction the elites, to tell them that they can no longer finance the gangs. He said that last week, and he added, we must ensure that the Haitian national police have the power to do their jobs.

And Canada did do that. Canada sanctioned over a dozen elites, political and economic elites in Haiti. Yeah, Canada did that. And at the same time, I think it's very important for Canada and the United States to come clean about what I would call the shared responsibility of what is happening in Haiti. Yeah, maybe we can talk too about Canada and US's role in previous international intervention in Haiti. This was something that Trudeau touched on recently as well. Trudeau has said that military intervention in Haiti has not gone well in the past. What role has international intervention played

in this current crisis in the country? Haitians are very sensitive to that because Haiti was occupied by the Americans, you know, from 1915 to 1934. And it left like a very bitter experience because they were quite brutal. And since that occupation, when the Americans left, they put in place the Haitian forces, military forces. And the U.S. is asking now for Canada to actually play a role more too. So I guess given that Haitians are understandably concerned then about international intervention, what do you think support for Haiti at a time like this should actually look like?

We have to examine, for example, one set of actions taken by the government of Canada, the sanctions. And the United States, meanwhile, has cheered but not matched Canada's sanctions. It has imposed, Washington has imposed visa restrictions on more than 40 alleged gang leaders and supporters since October and levied, you know, sanctions on four people. So beyond sanctions, should Canada take any other part in something happening in Haiti? you know, in their discussions, President Biden and Prime Minister Trudeau, they could agree on a more coordinated effort around the sanctions. I think that would definitely, definitely help. And also what is needed, and it goes to the second part of what Prime Minister Trudeau has said, he believes that the Haitian National Police needs, you know, to have the power to do their jobs.

And we saw Canada actually coming with some logistical support. I think the two ships that were sent created a lot of hope. These were Canadian military ships sent in February to patrol the waters outside of Haiti. Yes. And it creates like some, the hopes that they would actually take actions against, you know, the trafficking activities happening, you know, in Haitian seas and territorial seas and also to tackle, you know, these activities carried out by the criminal organizations. There are certainly those who say Canada shouldn't intervene at all in Haiti, particularly because of the history of intervention in that country, but also because it can be very expensive and can take a long time. Like we're talking years here for this kind of intervention.

Is doing nothing a viable option? Doing nothing is not a viable option. I think we are really in a typical situation and dire situation of people in danger. And of course, Canadian officials have said, you know, any outside intervention must be backed by a political consensus in Haiti. But, you know, I think Canada has noticed also that previous interventions have not led to their desired outcomes. And they have also cast, you know, a certain doubt on whether the Canadian armed forces have the capacity for the type of mission the United States has proposed. So some, you know, also bristle, you know,

at the notion that they have not already assumed a leadership role because this is what, you know, President Biden is asking asking Prime Minister Trudeau, you know, could Canada take the lead of an international, you know, military mission, you know, in Haiti? And Canada is hesitating. And what they're saying that, of course, is they have reinforced their diplomatic presence in Haiti. They have deployed several missions to access needs. They will provide armored vehicles and other support to the police. They have imposed sanctions on 17 Haitians, including alleged gang leaders and their alleged backers among the political and business elite. And, you know, the United States, meanwhile, you know, has not matched Canada's sanctions. So what else do you think Canada should be doing in terms of supporting Haiti then? you have approximately 10,000 officers, meaning that the country faces a, you know,

policing ratio of one officer per 1,200 citizens. So, and as the police continues to lose control, the attrition rate is likely to steadily climb. Well, you know, a lot of them have resigned because they find it too risky. Some have joined, you know, some gangs. Some have control also over, you know, some armed trafficking. So how can Canada help the police there? Are we talking about training, sending actual people ourselves? What would be the best way to do this?

I think training. Training is important. I think helping to gather intelligence is important because right now, every operation, every action that the Haitian National Police is taking is blindly. And that's why you have so many casualties also among police officers. That's a problem. Canada has sent like a special plane to do that kind of monitoring of mobility of, you know, these mercenaries, you know, on the ground.

They have promised to provide also drones to do that. And I'm going back to the ships. The ships were important. They were important because Haiti has no ways of, you know, controlling its borders and the trafficking, you know, happening by sea. And, you know, tackling armed and drug trafficking is crucial. You know, the United States and Florida in particular is the main source of firearms for Haiti. And what I'm saying now is the UN Office of Drugs and Crime,

you know, reports that says it. It came out just this month. And they are often, you know, procured through straw men in states with lax gun laws and then trashed, you know, illegally to Haiti. That's a problem. This is another issue that no one talks about and Canada could do something about it. It's the deportation. Canada has a policy of deporting immigrants who have committed certain classes of crime back to their countries of origin.

And this pattern of college, circular migration, circular, you know, migration, immigration to Canada, followed by deportation, has unique implications also for the development of transnational organized crime. And the government of Canada knows that. Essentially sending criminals back to Haiti, essentially, is what you're saying. Back to Haiti. You know, I think that as these two men sit down together, President Biden and Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, they also have to talk about this because deportation is practiced by the United States

and Canada in the same manner. And without taking into consideration that they're just shifting a problem, you know, from our soil in Canada, from American soil to Haiti, a country that has no state, a country that doesn't have even, you know, a judiciary system to actually address this problem of deportees who are engaged, you know, in criminal activities also. Well, let me ask you this directly then, Madame Jean. Prime Minister Trudeau and President Biden are meeting on Friday. And as we've said, the U.S. has asked Canada to play a lead role

in the international effort to assist Haiti. What do you hope will come of their conversation? I'm hoping that there can be a moment of truth. I'm hoping that they will address also the kind of responsibilities that Canada, the United States share in the problem actually happening in Haiti, the total insecurity

and proliferation of criminal organizations who have taken control over the country. And also, how about seeing how they can help you reinforce the Haitian national police? You know, in a normal state, you wouldn't see the citizens trying to find solutions, you know, themselves to address a situation of insecurity. Well, the men that Canada, the United States, France, and all the other, you know, foreign powers have put in place is completely overwhelmed.

Overwhelmed. He doesn't have the confidence, even the, you know, the trust of the police. So that too, they need to look at the fact that it's been a mistake, a huge mistake. And of course, why not listen to what Haitians themselves are saying about this issue of governance and how it will take a different entity for a transitional government to organize the elections to be in place. So rather listen to the people of Haiti to see what actually they need here. Listen to the people of Haiti. Absolutely. If you listen carefully, what were they saying? They were asking for the respect of the rule of law. They were asking for more accountability. They are asking for the return to the constitutional order. They're asking for really measures and policies to tackle extreme poverty in Haiti. We all have to take responsibility

and say that it's not just about Haiti. It's a national, regional, continental issue. And that issue has a devastating impact and severe impact on all of us. And this is what is happening to Haiti. Madame Jean, thank you so much for taking the time to speak with me today. Thank you. That's it for today. I'm Mainika Raman-Wellms. Our producers are Madeleine White, Cheryl Sutherland, and Rachel Levy-McLaughlin. David Crosby edits the show.

Adrian Chung is our senior producer, and Angela Pachenza is our executive editor. Thanks so much for listening, and I'll talk to you next week.