The Decibel - How Florida’s ‘Don’t Say Gay’ law is having a big impact on the U.S.

Episode Date: November 7, 2022

Florida has brought in several policies recently that critics say target LGBTQ people, like the controversial ‘Don’t Say Gay’ bill, which prevents teachers from telling kids in Grade 3 or younger about sexual orientation or gender identity. Similar policies are being taken up across the US.Brandon Wolf is with the LGBTQ civil rights group Equality Florida. He tells us about the impact of the “Don’t Say Gay” law, and what it means when so many Republican candidates for the upcoming midterms are using at a model for what they’ll do in their home states.Questions? Comments? Ideas? Email us at [e-mail]

Hi, I'm Mainika Raman-Welms, and you're listening to The Decibel. The U.S. midterm elections are tomorrow, and many Republican candidates have been rallying behind legislation that prohibits or limits what schools can teach children about gender identity and sexual orientation. Many have pointed to Florida as an example, where the Don't Say Gay law went into effect this year. Equality Florida is an organization where the state's LGBT civil rights organization has been around for 25 years. And until 2021, we were successful in blocking every piece of anti-LGBTQ legislation that came through the state of Florida.

Today, we're talking to Brandon Wolfe. He's with the civil rights group, Equality Florida, that sued the state government over the law, but the lawsuit was dismissed. Brandon will tell us what this law means for the gay community in Florida and why it's become part of Republican midterm campaigns across the country. This is The Decibel from The Globe and Mail.

Brandon, thank you so much for joining me today. Yeah, thanks for having me. So if people have been paying attention to American politics in the last little while, they've probably heard of the Don't Say Gay law. Officially, it's called the Parental Rights in Education Bill, but it's commonly known as Don't Say Gay. Brandon, what exactly does it do? Very simply put, the law bans classroom instruction on sexual orientation and gender identity in grades K through 3 and restricts that instruction on grades 4 through 12.

And, you know, in confirmation bias language, that might sound like common sense to people. But when you start to dig deeper and pull back the layers, you realize why it is intentionally vague and is, you know, in essence, an effort to erase LGBTQ people from classrooms because nobody really knows what classroom instruction means. That word does not have a definition in legal statute in Florida. And as a result, teachers and administrators aren't quite sure what is covered under that law. Does that mean that we can no longer talk about families that have two moms, for instance,

in the classroom. If a second grader is given the opportunity to choose what book the teacher reads for story hour, and that book includes stories of two moms, or maybe it's Entango Makes Three, which is the real life story of two male penguins raising a chick together at the Central Park Zoo, does that book now also mean classroom instruction because you're reading it to a class full of children? And the answer is we're not quite sure because the language of the law is so vague and so broad. And in its application already, we've seen books with LGBTQ characters being banned from classrooms. We've seen rainbow safe space stickers and pride flags being peeled from classroom walls and windows. We even saw Miami-Dade County Schools, one of the largest school districts in the country,

reject LGBTQ History Month earlier this year because they said that recognizing the fact that LGBTQ people are a part of American history would be or could be a violation of the law. Okay, so just to be clear, so the law talks about classroom instruction. This is the part that you're saying is vague there. From what I understand, though, topics of sexual orientation and gender identity weren't actually part of the curriculum for kids that age, the K-3 age there in Florida anyway. Is that right? So why bring this in? Yeah, that's correct. And one of the questions we've asked all along of Governor DeSantis and his allies is with so many things facing Floridians with a property insurance crisis, with climate change, making

storms more deadly here, with housing costs going through the roof, Florida is one of the least affordable states in the country right now. With all of those things happening to Floridians, why this? Why have we zeroed in on this particular issue? And the Senate bill sponsor, the guy who filed it in that chamber, told us. Why is drug use discussion not prohibited? The issue here is, why is gender identity and sexual orientation specifically prohibited when there are so many other very difficult mature subjects that are not exempted in this bill. Senator Baxley you recognize. We are in a trending posture right now

where I mean my son's a psychiatrist and I said why is everybody now all about coming out when you're in school. And I think 75% of people that I see polled on this bill, they agree with me that there's something wrong with how we're emphasizing this and that all of a sudden overnight, they're a celebrity when they felt like they were nobody. So what can actually happen to a teacher, to a classroom, a school, if gender identity or sexual orientation is talked about in their class? Let's get really specific about what happens if somebody files a complaint under this law. Let's say in second grade in Florida, it's actually a required classroom project for students to do the family tree assignment where you get a little, you know, cartoon cut out of a tree and you draw your family members on it. And then you get to do a presentation to talk about your families.

A student comes into class. They are showing off their tree for the classroom. And they say, on this branch are my two moms. They like to take me for ice cream on the weekends. Another student says, well, that's weird. You can't have two moms. Where's your dad? The teacher steps in and says, in this classroom, we don't talk about people like that.

Some families have two moms and they're just as valuable as anyone else's. If that student who was confused about someone else's family makeup goes home and says, hey, guess what I learned in school today that some families can have two moms, that parent sitting at the kitchen table can now call their attorney, sue the school district. The school district can never recoup those legal fees because remember, the redress that's written into this law is not a conversation or a dialogue between parents and the school districts. Parents have the right to call their attorney and sue the school district.

And even if that lawsuit is thrown out, even if it's found not to be on solid ground, the school district can never recoup their legal fees. That's written into the law. And by the way, just in the last few weeks, the Department of Education has expanded the enforcement mechanism to say that the school district, as a result, can not only fire the teacher, but petition to have that teacher's license removed so they can never teach in the state of Florida again. That is the enforcement process of Don't Say Gay.

And it never really involves a conversation about what is appropriate in a classroom. Again, you're watching as teachers flee the profession. You're watching as school districts pull back on all of their inclusion efforts because nobody wants to test that enforcement mechanism. Yeah, as a teacher, you wouldn't really want to put your job and your livelihood on the line. And I imagine that would, you know, the example you gave there is quite poignant, but I would imagine that would come across other things as well, like, say, a pride flag in a classroom. That could spur questions and conversations. So that would probably be something that teachers might not want to test. classroom. The son was moved to a different classroom ultimately, but because the pride

flag was in that classroom, the father claimed that there was classroom instruction happening on LGBTQ issues and has initiated a formal complaint against the school district and that particular teacher. And again, because of the Department of Education's new policies, that teacher could end up losing their license. What impact is all of this having on the students? Well, that's the most important question, right? Because this is weighing most heavily on young people. We know that because these young people are already at higher risk. LGBTQ people, when they are under the age of 18, are at really high risk of experiencing depression, anxiety, bullying, violence, sexual violence, and even suicidality before they graduate high

school. In fact, LGBTQ young people in America are four times as likely as their peers to attempt suicide before they finish school. And these things are only making it worse. The Trevor Project recently did a study that said 60% of LGBTQ young people are telling us that their mental health has been negatively impacted by the political climate created by policies like this one, by the language that's being used to propel them through state houses across the country. And that's got to really terrify us because these young people are vulnerable. These young people are in a place where, you know, the difference between them making it to tomorrow or not, the difference between them graduating and going off and living rich, full lives or not, is us telling them that they're perfect exactly as they are. We'll be right back.

Governor Ron DeSantis says that his intention with this legislation is to ensure that parents are the ones teaching their kids about gender identity and expression and sexual orientation rather than teachers. What's your response to that? Everybody wants parents to be involved in a kid's education. Of course, parents know their children best. And the very best educational environments are the ones where all of us are working together to help those young people thrive. But the question about this law is whose parents' rights are being protected? What about the LGBTQ parents who deserve to send their kid to school, their second grader to school, and have their family respected? I'm curious, what about Florida public opinion? Like, is there support for this type of legislation? The public opinion polling is very interesting because when given both messages, the message of inclusion and

diversity and also the governor's message about parental rights, it's interesting that people can actually agree with both. But the truth is when people are confronted by the real consequences of the law, when we start asking them about book bans, when we start asking them about classroom censorship, when we start asking them about, you know, taking family photos off of teachers' desks and hiding them in closets. That's when people get really uncomfortable. We've seen that not just with traditionally progressive people in the electorate.

We see it across the board. Republicans are made uncomfortable with censorship and government book bans as well. And so, you know, I think we've got to talk to people about the real consequences of policies like this one. And, of course, this is starting to spill over into public rhetoric as well. What can you tell us about what you've seen on that front? Yeah, this might be the most disturbing part of what we've seen over the last 10 months or so. You know, in the very final hours of the legislative session in March, the don't say gay law was actually kind of floundering in the legislature. Republicans were having a really hard time getting it over the finish line.

And as a result, Governor DeSantis, who really needed that legislative win, sent his press secretary into the world to begin peddling some of the disgusting and vile rhetoric that has now taken hold in this country. On one Sunday evening in March, she went on Twitter and smeared everyone in the LGBTQ community and our allies, saying that if we don't support the don't say gay law, then we are, quote, groomers, that we are complicit in pedophilia, that it is our goal to indoctrinate children that we're building some army of LGBTQ young people and trying to rip them away from their parents. All of it harkens back to some of the darkest anti-LGBTQ rhetoric that this country has seen in its history. Just this week,

we saw a donut shop in Tulsa, Oklahoma, firebombed by a right-wing extremist because they hosted a drag show. Well, what are you hearing from queer people in Florida then about how these policies and this rhetoric is actually affecting them? People are really afraid. You know, I spend a lot of time in the community just taking the temperature of where people are. I am very lucky to live in Orlando, which is a very progressive part of Florida. My community, especially in the wake of the Pulse nightclub shooting has become increasingly more inclusive of people. I say often that that tragedy allowed the city to come out as a welcoming place for LGBTQ people. But even here in the city of Orlando, people are really afraid for the future

of Florida. They're afraid for the future of their families, of their kids, of those around them that they love. And they're afraid because of the way in which this governor's language and rhetoric has emboldened people. They're afraid of, you know, these people that are right wing extremists showing up with signs and posters, screaming things at school board meetings that were almost unfathomable just five or six years ago. And can I ask you, you mentioned the Pulse nightclub shooting there, Brendan, Can I ask you about your own experience with that? Yeah, I wasn't working for Equality Florida in 2016 when the shooting happened. In fact, I wasn't really even an advocate in the community.

I was content to just live my life. I really wanted to be normal as a kid. I never got a chance to do that. And so Pulse in many ways embodied that sense of normal. It was a safe space for queer people and especially queer people of color. And then, of course, all of that was turned upside down. I was washing my hands at a bathroom sink when the shooting started. I was really lucky to make it out with my life. But, you know, unfortunately, 49 people were not, including my

two best friends, my chosen family, my brothers, Drew and Juan, who were shot 19 times. I don't want there to be another Pulse nightclub. And that's why I'm so passionate about stopping it right now, about uprooting it. That's why I'm so passionate about holding the governor and his allies accountable for the words coming out of their mouths, because there are real people's lives in danger when we continue to traffic in some of the darkest and oldest anti-LGBTQ tropes on the books. I'm so sorry to hear about your experience there. I mean, it sounds like it was a really, really scary experience, honestly. But it also sounds like it's propelled you to the to the work that you're doing now. And this, of course, isn't just

happening in Florida. We are talking about Florida here today. But but how have we seen this also this kind of rhetoric and these kind of laws as well taken up in other places in the U.S.? Yeah. You know, Florida is still the third largest state in our union. It is still the largest swing state in the country. And as a result, a lot of what happens in Florida becomes a petri dish for things that are happening around the country. And as a result, a lot of what happens in Florida becomes a petri dish for things that are happening around the country. In many ways, people sort of see the governors of Florida and Texas dueling each other to see who can race to the bottom of, you know, overturning and peeling back progress that we've made over the years. But it's not just Texas and Florida. It is Ohio. It is Arkansas. It is Alabama.

It is Mississippi. It's even places like Oregon and New York State. We had a Republican candidate for governor in New York State saying that if he were elected, that don't say gay law would be one of the very first priorities. We've already heard congressional Republicans in Washington, D.C. talking about a national, quote, parental rights and education law. Remember, that's code for don't say gay. We've heard them talking about assaulting transgender health care on a national scale. Many of the things that are taking root in D.C. and in other states across the country really started here.

We've become the testing ground. And Ron DeSantis has shown a willingness because he really wants to run for president in 2024 to be the guy on the forefront, to be the tip of the spear for the right-wing extremist movement. And that's why it's so important for people to understand that stopping Ron DeSantis in Florida, that combating his brand of chaos and hatred here in Florida is not just a Florida problem. It's about stopping the emergence of these similar policies in Ohio and Utah and Arkansas and New York. And it's about stopping them from taking hold in our federal government as well. The U.S. midterms are tomorrow, November 8th. Ron DeSantis is up for reelection in Florida.

Does it look like he's going to win? You know, unfortunately, Ron DeSantis has built a very powerful machine. And so I want to be realistic with people that the betting odds are that he will be reelected. Incumbents are very hard to beat here in the country. And Ron DeSantis has built an enormous war chest. Before I let you go, I mean, you sound very concerned about what's going on, Brandon, but you also sound hopeful.

Can I ask, what gives you hope here? Yeah, a lot of things give me hope. Listen, you know, the governor's strategy is not unlike right-wing strategies throughout history. It is to create something so chaotic, so overwhelming, a storm that is swirling so loudly around you that you lose hope. But the truth is that fighting back is our only hope. Throughout history, LGBTQ people have lived with our backs against the wall. When we fought for marriage equality, when we fought for the rights of our families to be recognized,

when we fought for non-discrimination protections, when we fought back against the violence at Pulse nightclub, our backs were against the wall. And guess what? We stood unapologetically, unashamedly, and said we will not be bullied into silence. We will not be bullied into submission. And as a result, we've made incredible progress. Brennan, thank you so much for taking the time to speak with me today. Thank you. Appreciate it.

That's it for today. I'm Mainika Raman-Wilms. Our producers are Madeline White, Cheryl Sutherland, and Rachel Levy-McLaughlin. David Crosby edits the show. Kasia Mihailovic is our senior producer, and Angela Pichenza is our executive editor. Thanks so much for listening, and I'll talk to you tomorrow.