The Decibel - How government infighting led to a refugee crisis in Toronto

Episode Date: July 25, 2023

Dozens of asylum seekers have been sleeping on the streets of Downtown Toronto for weeks as a political stand-off between governments took place. While governments have been arguing over jurisdictional responsibility, community groups have stepped in.Toronto’s Revivaltime Tabernacle Church in North York has opened up its doors to over 230 asylum seekers, with volunteers donating their time and resources. We speak to Dustin Cook, The Globe’s Toronto municipal affairs reporter, about what he found out when he visited the church.Questions? Comments? Ideas? E-mail us at [e-mail]

This is a church service at Revival Time Tabernacle, a black church in Toronto's North End. People are dressed in their Sunday best, some are sporting fancy hats. They stand up and clap, sing along and shout out amens during the service. One woman has even brought her tambourine and shakes it as the choir sings. But their celebration this past Sunday was different from others. Reverend Andrew James called upon some special guests. These refugees were the ones you may have heard about on the news. After coming to Canada for safety, they were left homeless,

sleeping on Toronto's Peter Street. One of them is a woman named Tabby. It wasn't a good experience at all because we had no shelter under us. The rains, we're under the rains and it was not, it was really not a good experience, really horrible. Tabby came to Canada from Cameroon. We're only using her first name because she's concerned for her safety. I came for a better life now because I know Canada has opportunities that will benefit me in the future and my family back home and country as well. Tabby and other asylum seekers on Peter Street

expected government support when they arrived. Instead, they found closed doors. And many people are still out on the street today, waiting for the government to help them. But the Revival Time Tabernacle decided to bus around 200 of them to their church to temporarily live. Today, Dustin Cook is on the show. He's a reporter with The Globe who covers municipal affairs in Toronto. He'll explain how we got here and what's next for these refugees. I'm Manika Ramanwelms, and this is The Decibel from The Globe and Mail.

Dustin, thank you so much for being here today. Thanks for having me. So we're talking on Monday, and I think it's probably useful to start from the beginning here. So let's actually go back to this spring in Toronto. Dustin, when did this story first start? So it started back in May. At the end of May, Deputy Mayor Jennifer McKelvey announced that the city's shelter system of about 9,000 beds was essentially full. And so the city would be referring refugee claimants and asylum seekers to federal programs that the

federal government has been offering in hotels that they've set up temporarily. It then started to trickle out onto the streets where refugee claimants arriving in Toronto didn't have a place to stay overnight. And so many of them were sleeping outside the shelter intake center on Peter Street in downtown Toronto. Yeah, and this is what we often saw on the news, right? People talking about Peter Street. So this is why everything was concentrated there. How bad did it get?

So I was down there a couple weeks ago for a press conference that community advocacy groups were hosting. And there was a lot of cardboard mats, people trying to find comfort any way they can sleeping, essentially right outside the door on the sidewalk. We spoke to people who said it was a lot of rainy nights, very cold in the rain, not a lot of refuge from those conditions. And that's why community groups wanted to help and get them off the streets and into a place where they have a roof over their head. So it ended up getting to the point that over 100 people were sleeping on the street,

on the sidewalks outside that intake center overnight. Obviously, as you mentioned, it was starting to get attention on the news. Community groups started organizing efforts to help these people. And then there was a press conference on a Friday to try and urge political action. And why were they all concentrated there? Like, why not go somewhere else?

I think it was because that was the location that was going to help and provide shelter. So I think that's where the people who were arriving here were told to go to get help. It's first come first serve. Also with different need requirements, there are women's only shelters, and there are shelters to accommodate specific health needs. But for the most part, it's first come first serve. And each and every night, the system is at capacity. There are about 300 people, the city says, each night who are turned away. Right now, about half of those are refugee claimants. So Dustin, Toronto receives refugees all the time, right? So what changed? I think what changed is it was a large influx of

people coming in to the city when the city was already running out of space to provide shelter. And the city said that they would be referring people now to federal programs, urging the federal government to come forward with more money. So in terms of the huge number of refugees that were camped out on Peter Street in Toronto, what do we know about these refugees, Dustin? Who are they and where are they from? So we haven't been able to speak to too many of them. When we visited the church, they didn't want to speak to us for fear of what they went through and reliving their story. But what we know is from the community groups and the church supporting them. So Pastor Judith James said many of them have been fleeing persecution from their sexual orientation, political affiliation,

or violence where they're from. There's been a lot of running and fleeing for their sexual orientation. So fleeing from, you know, death threats, fleeing because of domestic violence. So they're really coming to Canada for safety. They're seeking refuge. That's why they came and that's what they were promised. And that's not what they've received. From speaking with many of the community groups who were advocating to find them shelter, we know that most of them are from African countries. It's women and men. We have no children, but we had four pregnant mothers.

A mother came to us just the other day, was eight months pregnant. They need care. You know, we have transgender people who are still trying to figure out who they are and we're trying to help them through that. And so there's a lot of mental health that's needed, counselors that are needed, spiritual care, but these are good people. They're good people, educated people, people who had good employments back home that, again, had to flee for their safety, have come here wanting to get their work permits, wanting to this church, Revival Time Tabernacle. Dustin, you were actually there last week, I know, along with Decibel producers Nikki Nia and Madeline White. So tell me about this place. Like when you were there, what was the first place that you saw? Yeah, as we arrived at the church, I think the first thing I noticed is that it was very busy. There were people emptying carloads of clothing donations, bedding, some of the refugee

claimants sitting outside in the garden attached to the church. And then when we went in, Pastor Judith James took us to the male sleeping quarters. So in this space, it's our gym. They came with their bedding, which is also something that public health should have stepped in and helped us with. But they're literally on mats. They're on mats. We have only two cots, and there are 70-plus men in this one space. There were two large industrial fans blowing cool air for the men. And as Pastor Judith James said, it wasn't the biggest space, but it provided shelter for them from the scorching sun and the rain that they were

sleeping in for weeks. This is one of several rooms that were set up where people have been staying. There were other rooms further back in the church and also in the common area. Space had to be set up there because of the number of people that were staying and they set up blankets blocking off the common area from where people were now sleeping in that space. Beyond shelter, how is the church providing for all of these people? Like they must need things like clothes and toiletries, right?

Absolutely. And just last week, many of the community groups involved issued a call out for more donations, lots of clothing needs, as you can imagine, you know, different sizes, different shoe sizes. We walked into a small room that you could not see the floor. It was filled with donations to the brim. And seven women were in there, volunteers, searching for shoes that would fit people in need of shoes who didn't have proper footwear. And in that room, looking through clothes, sorting through clothes, we spoke to Shurna Sandy.

She had the day off work. She wanted to spend her time helping. Why was it important to you to help and use your time in that way? Well, years ago, I used to live in a shelter, so I know what it is to be in need. I know what it is not to have a home. Luckily, I had a shelter provided for me. But because I know the need, I'm like, let's get, you know, everybody put together and see what we can do. And where was all of this stuff coming from? A lot of it was organized through community groups. A GoFundMe was set up to provide donations.

And then I think word of mouth, people who saw what was happening. A woman arrived from Muskoka about a two hour drive. She just wanted to help out. She brought clothing, she brought jewelry, and she just wanted to spend the time that she had to help with the efforts and was in the kitchen making lunch an hour after we first met her. Actually, I'm glad you brought this up because I was wondering about food too, right? Because a lot of people, it requires a lot of food to feed everyone. So what was the situation there? It was a very organized effort.

There was a lot of food when we walked into the kitchen, a fair-sized kitchen, and they were prepping lunch. I think it was chicken fingers being set up on this large table in a common area. So while we were in the kitchen, we spoke to Carmen. She's a church member, and she was volunteering her time and making sure that people have what they needed. You know, it feels good. You know, we put in a little extra time, and, you know,

we volunteer and do what we have to do. But it's all done with love. Because when you make another person happy, it feels good to, you know, express to them that we do care. We'll be back in a moment. So Dustin, this sounds like a huge operation. There's a lot of work being done by volunteers here. How are all of these volunteers coping with all of this? That's a good question.

I think they've been working so hard and stepping up in this moment of crisis and community response and not really recognizing or looking at the problem and just doing what they can to help. And we then spoke to a pastor at the church, Pastor Yvonne, and she became very emotional when speaking with us because I think she was recognizing the bigger picture of things and it really hit her in that moment. You have to have great stamina and literally put your emotions aside because if you ever let your emotion get in the way you would not be able to continue working

because when you see that such a great need we have actually gotten to the point where we saw we believe that they have been through hell and if there's hell on earth, this must be it. And so even in trying to keep your emotions out of the way so that you can really help them, it's hard. So when I go home, I have to sit quietly and process all of what just happened. Pastor Yvonne Buller was upset about the fact that the community had to step in and do this, and that there was not a response from the governments that they were hoping for. So that's all I can say is that if you're at home and you feel the compassion pulls you, get up, speak to your MPs, Let them know that there are people on the street

that need homes. We don't need to wish them well. We need to do well. And we need to do what's right because of their humanity. They're people too. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to do that. So, if anybody needs to help,

I'm going to pull myself together because I really need to get this out. If anybody needs to help, the help comes from speaking to Trudeau by email, by phone calls, bombarding Doug Ford, your MP in your area, and saying we cannot treat people like this. We cannot leave them on the street. We need to help them. So I need people to do that for them. Don't just bring food. Talk to your MPs. Let them know that we have a crisis and we need to treat them with the same dignity we would treat other people. Okay, so on that point, have any politicians shown up to the church to help?

There was a city councilor who made it to the church, I think, last week. During this Sunday's church service, the MPP for the area, Michael Kersner, who's also the province's solicitor general, attended. And he said that he was working with the community to provide supports for those in need. So right now, it sounds like it's a lot of volunteers helping out people, but who is actually responsible, Dustin, for sheltering refugees? It's a good question. And I think it's still being decided. There's been weeks of the government's fighting and pointing fingers at each

other to provide more support. And when you say governments, you mean different levels of government then, right? Municipal, provincial, federal? That's right. The city and the province have both been saying that it's the federal government's responsibility. Last week, the federal government provided $97 million to Toronto as part of a larger expansion of its interim housing support program to provide shelter for circumstances like this with the growing demand of refugee claimants. The city has said that that's not enough. Yeah. And in fact, today on Monday, Federal Finance Minister Chrystia Freeland told Mayor Olivia Chow that the federal government

won't be bailing out the city and that they should be asking the province for more money instead. So this kind of blame game is continuing. But coming back to the $97 million that you mentioned there, Dustin, that the federal government announced in response to this specific situation, is that new money? This is new money. It expands on a program that expired earlier this year. It is now going to be extended until next March. And so this $97 million, essentially what it does is it fills the whole of the 1,500 shelter beds that the city has already been providing. It doesn't extend to the people who will be coming here and who have been sleeping on the streets.

I guess I'm still trying to figure this out because usually there are kind of clear responsibilities for government, right? Municipal government is responsible for some aspect of something and then the provincial government and the federal government after that. So I guess really, how does this break down? Who is responsible here? So the federal government is responsible for refugees, immigration, when people come to Canada through those programs. But they are saying that it's up to the city and the province to build in plans into their housing plans for asylum seekers and refugee claimants,

which is what we're talking about here. The city and the province have responded saying they don't have the capacity to do that. They need support from the federal government, even if these people aren't coming through the formal refugee programs. Okay. So it seems like it's a little bit of hot potato in a way that all levels of government are juggling kind of from one to the next. So Dustin, can you help me understand, I mean,

as of the beginning of July, Canada has accepted the applications of over 800,000 Ukrainians fleeing the war. We get a lot of refugees, right? So 800,000 Ukrainians fleeing the war. We get a lot of refugees, right? So 800,000 Ukrainians fleeing the war and, you know, they haven't ended up en masse homeless on a street in Toronto, right? So why do we see something so different here? And that is concern that the church organizers have been raising. I think the difference boils down to from the Ukrainian refugees. It was an official program set up. There's no official program set up as of yet for the refugee seekers. And, you know, Pastor Judith James said, it shouldn't matter about that.

And the people who need support should get it from the governments when they're sleeping out on the street. I think they choose Canada because Canada, we show that we're wonderful, right? We are a country that gives support around the world, that has given support to other refugees that have come. And so when you watch what has happened with the Syrians, with the Afghans, what has happened with the Ukrainians, they are believing that the people are treated the same. And unfortunately, they are not.

And so since these individuals have been brought to the church, what have we seen governments do? Like how have governments at various levels actually responded to this? So after two busloads took people to the church last Monday, we had the funding announcement from the federal government. The day after, the city announced a plan through a motion introduced by Mayor Olivia Chow as her first order of business at her first council meeting after taking office. And it had a number of initiatives. Firstly, immediately finding 250 spaces for these people to stay. 150 of them would be through extending hotel contracts. And the city said it is having difficulty finding other space, but they're urgently looking for 100 additional spaces. What's the City of Toronto going to do so that

we aren't in this situation again? A lot of it is advocating still to the senior levels of government, the province and the federal government, but also they are planning to launch a program that the city has also announced that they would be funding $6.7 million in of new money to be matched by the province. And it will help these refugee claimants pay for rent. I wonder, Dustin, are other cities facing the same kind of situation too with not enough shelter beds for refugees? Absolutely. This isn't specific to Toronto. In

Ontario, the big city mayor's caucus representing the large municipalities in Ontario have issued an urgent call to the federal government for a meeting because they're seeing this in their communities as well. So we're talking the Peel region, Durham region, the Golden Horseshoe around Toronto. They say in that area, there are about 4,000 refugee claimants in need of support. All right. So I'd like to, I guess, go back to the church

that we talked about earlier, Dustin. I mean, what's next for these individuals, right? Like they can't live in the church forever. So right now the city is starting to move people into the hotels. As of last Thursday, the most recent update I have is that they've acquired 65 rooms to provide space for 130 people. We know that's not everyone. So people are still in the

church. Pastor Judith James said they will continue to provide space until it's no longer needed. But she also said this isn't the end of the road for them. Obviously, the shelter space is interim. They need supports and services to get longer term housing, job training, access to language lessons, and they'll continue to be moved until there's a more permanent solution. You create community within that, and then we take you to be sheltered, but then you're re-traumatized again because your situation circumstances have changed. Then you're here. But we know this is not their final stopping ground either. So they keep building community to get ripped away from their community, keep building

community to get ripped away. It's very difficult. Just to end here, Dustin, I want to come back to Tabby, the woman we heard off the top from Cameroon. What are her plans for the future? Yeah, Tabby says that she wants to stay in Canada and make a life for herself here. I dream of becoming a nurse, yeah, and also to be able to give back to the community because it's all about humanity, like having, you receive and you give. Dustin, thank you so much for taking the time to speak with me today. Absolutely. Thanks for having me.

That's it for today. I'm Mainika Raman-Wells. Our summer producer is Nagin Nia. Our producers are Madeline White, Cheryl Sutherland, and Rachel Levy-McLaughlin. David Crosby edits the show. Adrienne Chung is our senior producer. And Angela Pachenza is our executive editor.

Thanks so much for listening, and I'll talk to you tomorrow.