The Decibel - How kids are getting hooked on gambling through online games

Episode Date: May 5, 2025

Problem gambling is a real issue in Canada – where reporting shows young people having even higher rates than adults. The increasing monetization of games, especially online, often uses similar mechanics to gambling, despite it being illegal for youth to gamble in Canada. And some experts say these apps and games are reinforcing feelings of risk and reward.Dr. Loredana Marchica is a pediatric psychologist at the Montreal Children’s Hospital and a psychiatrist at Pathways Psychology Clinic. Her research focuses on gambling among young people. She’ll tell us how the line between gaming and gambling is becoming blurred – and how to tell it’s become a problem.Questions? Comments? Ideas? Email us at [e-mail]

Okay, okay, my heartbeat is raising. My heartbeat is raising. Come on, come on, come on, give me that 2% chance, give me that legendary! Let's go! I told you! I told you! But what's the fun in buying stuff when we can gamble with loot boxes? These gamers are opening loot boxes in video games.

They're a kind of surprise box you can win through the game or can buy using real money. And they're full of virtual items that may be valuable, or they might not be. If that sounds a lot like gambling, some experts have recognized that connection to. And they're concerned about the way some games reinforce feelings of risk and reward. In Canada, problem gambling rates are higher among youth than they are among adults, according to the Centre for Addiction and Mental Health. Online gambling is now legal across most of Canada, and though it's illegal for youth to gamble, sometimes they end up taking part in activities that feel like gambling without even realizing it.

So today, Dr. Laura Dana-Marquica is on the show. She's a pediatric psychologist at the Montreal Children's Hospital and a psychiatrist at Pathways Psychology Clinic. Her research focuses on gambling among youth and young adults. Today, she'll tell us about how the line has blurred between gaming and gambling,

why it's a problem, and what to look for. I'm Maynika Ramon-Wilms, and this is The Decibel from The Globe and Mail. Dr. Laurie, thank you so much for being here. Thank you for having me, Maynika. Can we just start with a really basic question? What makes gambling so addictive? When we think about gambling, you can say there's two areas that we look at that make it addictive. There's kind of this biological component. It activates the area of your brain that's kind of

the reward system. So it releases dopamine, that feel-good neurotransmitter, and it creates this surge of pleasure and euphoria. And often that's so reinforcing for us and we want to keep going and repeating to get that feeling. And so we kind of crave more of it. But then on the other side, there's often psychological factors. When you think back to like basic learning principles, gambling works by using a reinforcement schedule,

or like I said before, rewards, right? So reinforcement, really simply put, is when we introduce something that's pleasurable, something that gives us a good feeling in order to increase a behavior. So, you know, often I, when I teach this, I give the example of like when we train dogs, you know, in order to get a dog to do a trick, you're going to pair your command with a treat. He loves his food, right? And so then he's going to make that association. And all of a sudden, just giving that command is going to get the behavior because he really

wants that treat because he has already associated with that pleasurable experience. And so humans are kind of the same way. We're going to do something in order to get the reward. Okay. So we're not sitting to get a piece of cheese, but we're doing something that gives us something to feel good then. Exactly. On top of that, gambling uses kind of what we call like this reinforcement schedule that's even more addictive. It's intermittent reinforcement. So all of a sudden the reward is coming at a time period that we don't know. Sometimes we get it, sometimes we don't. And so that like that unknown creates a sense of

excitement, unpredictability, and it intensifies that urge to kind of keep playing to chase the win because oh liable to come soon right the next time for sure I'm going to get it. That's interesting. Okay so the unpredictability seems to be an important factor there. And of course we're talking about adult brains in this example, but how would it be different if we're looking at the brains of kids or adolescents? It's actually much more different in the sense that their brains are not fully developed, right? And so we know that adolescents, you know, any parent of an adolescent knows they're impulsive, they're going to take part in a lot more risky behaviors.

And oftentimes that's because the area of their brain that's in charge of planning, organization, understanding long-term consequences, that area is not fully developed until you're like 25 years old. And so they're more likely to engage in those behaviors and then they're more likely to become addictive and to really want and crave that kind of reward system that they get from gambling. Okay, and so if we're talking about young people who are engaging in gambling, I wonder how young are we actually talking here?

There are some studies that have shown that as young as 10 years old, they're engaging in gambling-like activities. Because when we really define gambling, we often think of it as casino games, lotto games, or, you know, playing for money. But gambling is really just placing or putting something at value at risk in order to get something of greater value.

So even if you think, oh, a 10-year-old doesn't have any money to gamble with, well, they have their special objects that they could easily gamble with as well. Is this a fairly popular thing? I guess I'm wondering, like, where do kids find the idea to get started and start gambling in the first place? It's definitely popular, much more than we think. So oftentimes, you know, we don't think of gambling as a activity that teens take part in.

But really, when we look at the numbers, teens are two to four times higher likelihood of having a problem gambling or a gambling addiction as compared to adults. And a third of students will report that they've gambled in one or more gambling activities. Now, whether it leads to a gambling problem or not, they are engaging in these activities. And we have to consider where are they getting the idea? Social media ads, advertisements during sporting events, there are certain regulations around advertisements, but there are ways to get around it. And also, we don't always keep in mind of what our teens are watching, right? If the ad is during a sporting event, there are younger kids watching

sporting events, not just adults. And so they're going to And so they're going to have that accessible to them as well. I guess I wonder if we're talking about kids actually younger than I think many of us would imagine that might be getting into this gambling. What are some of the behaviors that we might see in kids that may have developed a problem essentially with gambling? So we often talk about gambling as kind of like this hidden addiction because it's hard to see those behaviors, you know, when someone is engaging in a substance, there's physical symptoms, there's physical signs that show you, oh, they're engaging in a certain substance. But with gambling, there's less of these physical symptoms. So we have to look for the behavioral ones. Are your teens or young children kind of talking about their gambling activities a lot? Do they seem like they're always, you know, either talking about it or thinking about

the next time they're going to engage in that activity, so this preoccupation with it? So you know, the items or if they are gambling with money, are they, you know, losing money or are they borrowing money more frequently? Are you noticing that somehow, you know, amounts of money in your wallet or your purse borrowing money more frequently? Are you noticing that somehow, you know, amounts of money in your wallet or your purse are disappearing, right? Are they starting to engage in stealing behaviors in order to do these gambling activities? Is there a decline in academic performance, right? If they've normally been doing so well in academics and all of a sudden they're losing interest in their studies, they're skipping school, there's a significant drop in grades, something to pick up on. Are they withdrawing from their

friends and family? And then mood swings and irritability. Okay. And what kind of gambling do young people actually usually get involved in? So we've seen that oftentimes younger people are engaging in games that we call personal skills, like poker games or sports betting, whether it's online or in person. However, there's also newer forms of gambling that we're seeing. So things like social casino games, these free to play games on social media or mobile apps that don't have to follow the same regulations because they're free to play, but kind of get them introduced to the game much earlier on.

And important to note, have different odds than the play for money games. So it makes you think that you can win much more easily. Fantasy sports. So these are a way of betting on sports, but you're creating your own team. And then, you know, as we see the connection between gaming and gambling starting, we see things like e-sports betting,

where we're betting on the players who are playing the games. Okay, so a lot of these activities are regulated and they're actually illegal for kids, right? So how is this happening? Yeah, so I mean, in Canada, depending on its province, the age of playing is based by province regulations. So I think between 18 and 19 years old, in terms of the legal age to gamble depending on what province you're in. And there

are, you know, different verifications. But I mean, teens are smart. And especially now with online gambling being more and more available, and you can gamble on your phone, you don't have to be on a computer. And most teens do have a phone that's connected to the internet.

So it becomes a lot harder to control. So even though there's age verifications on the legal online gambling site, oftentimes they're easily bypassed. It's not so hard to bypass the age verification and allowing the minor to create an account. Sometimes it's just about putting in a credit card. We assume that only an adult can have a credit card and it's pretty easy to steal the credit card from your parents. Some teens use their parent accounts. So they go

on their parent accounts, they use their parent's payment method in order to gamble online. There's also a lot of offshore websites. So these are not regulated by our government, right? And so these offshore websites don't have to follow the same laws that the regulated ones do. And often it's very easy for miners to access them. And then, you know, we look at, again, the convergence between gambling and gaming, right? All of a sudden there's gambling opportunities within their video games. And so that's a lot harder to regulate.

And because it's newer, laws and regulations haven't been placed in yet. We'll be back in a minute. So Dr. Laurie, it sounds like a lot of kids end up finding these games online, but you also mentioned that these kind of gambling things are also prevalent in some video games. Can you tell me a little bit about that? Where do kids encounter them in video games. Can you tell me a little bit about that? Where do kids encounter them in video games? So things like skin bedding or now even loot boxes are ways that we have these gambling-like activities

within the game that the adolescent or a child is playing. Can you explain both of those? Because I think those of us who do not know this world, yeah, what is skins bedding? What are loot boxes? I mean, I've learned about them through my research, but also a lot of it through the patients that I work with who are kind of teaching me all these new things that are happening in their games.

But loot boxes are basically like these virtual items in video games that individuals or players can purchase. And when they're opened, it has this kind of random reward. So they could get different skins, they can get weapons, in-game items. can purchase and when they're opened it has this kind of random reward so they could get different skins they can get weapons in-game items it's like they never know what they're gonna get and it could be a small value reward or a high value reward. This is like what you were saying before yes about you never know what you're gonna get. Exactly and what is that sound like it almost sounds

like a like a lotto machine right? It spins and you get something and sometimes it's a small amount and sometimes it's a big amount. And so it's really using kind of that intermittent reinforcement schedule of keeping people guessing of what they're going to get. And then on top of that, it's become really popular for like YouTube creators or YouTube video creators that kind of create content just around the excitement of opening these loot boxes. So even if you are putting a limit as a parent on your child's gaming behavior and saying, oh no, we're not gonna purchase these loot boxes,

they're watching their favorite gamer online open up the loot box and they're kind of getting addicted to just the feeling of it just through this kind of this visual effect and this excitement. And how do players get loot boxes? You mentioned purchasing them. So is this like money that you're spending on loot boxes? Yes. So these are your purchasing them or you can earn them. But they are things that you purchase within the game in order to kind of either promote your players' abilities or promote different aspects within the game. It's a monetization definitely for the creators of the

game to have these loot boxes because it's an extra source of revenue for them. Okay and so it sounds like these are items that are highly valued then. I mean you might not actually know what's inside it but it seems like this is an item overall that people playing the game do want to get. Exactly. And like I said, because we don't know whether it's going to be a high value or a low value item, it could be something that really gets you far in the game or it really takes you to the next level or it could just be like a small little item that just adds a little extra touch to how your player looks. So it's really that like unknown unpredictability about, you know,

the reward that you're going to get that increases that addictive type of behavior. Okay. And you also mentioned something called skins betting. So explain that to me. What is that? So skins, which is also something, by the way, you can get in your loot box, is basically a virtual item that changes the look of your character within the game. is basically a virtual item that changes the look of your character within the game. It could be a weapon, a character outfit, and you can earn it, you can trade it, or you can purchase a skin. Now what's happening is players are kind of wagering or betting their skins on different gambling-like activities on kind of these side platforms. So not necessarily within the game, but they're taking the skins that they get in the game, which can have really high real-world money value. And they're kind of

betting them and using it as currency to play in other types of games, like roulette style games, like jackpot pools, even e-sport matches. Wow. Okay. So these again are features that they're getting in game, but it actually has such a value that you could transfer to real monetary value then. Exactly. There are certain skins that are really rare and so there's a high demand for them and in terms of monetary value, that demand and that rarity can make it go up into the thousands of dollars. So it can go from small amounts, you know, in the hundreds to really all the way up to the thousands in terms of the range of real world money value

to these skins. And when we're talking about skins, like these are essentially accessories for an online character, like something that would only exist in this virtual world, right? Exactly, it's a cosmetic addition to your character. Some of these

cosmetic additions add, you know, different aspects to your character, different abilities to your character, and definitely add and promote aspects of your abilities in the game. Do we know, is there anything connecting kind of these in-game gambling-like activities to actual real-world gambling? Is there a thread? That's sort of where the research is at now, and seeing that kind of migration from engaging in these gambling-like activities to real gambling behaviors, or in what we would consider the real historically defined gambling activities. So definitely we do see that migration where this is kind of like that training ground for adolescents to get the feel of what it feels like to gamble, to get that urge, that craving, that sense

of excitement that can come from gambling, and then how it grows into, you know, betting on other areas that are more historically defined as gambling. Mm-hmm. You said something interesting there. Use the phrase training grounds, so kind of getting the normalization, it sounds like, of gambling. Can you just briefly speak to that? Because I imagine there's a factor here of capturing an audience

when they're quite young. I imagine this could have ramifications down the road for them. Definitely. We know that the earlier you start to gamble, the more likely you are to have a gambling problem later on. And we know that in terms of like factors that increase likelihood, if you're in a family environment where gambling is very prevalent, you're more likely to engage in that behavior as well. But on the other hand, if your parents are modeling more responsible gambling behaviors, then we're learning, right?

Through them, we're learning how to engage those behaviors in a responsible way. So things like, I mentioned setting limits for yourself, not trying to chase a loss. So if the parent loses, not saying, oh, I got to play again in order to try and win that money back, but understanding that it happens.

Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, and that's part of the game, knowing what the odds are and that often the odds are not in your favor when we gamble. So when we model that behavior, especially with younger kids, we want to also vocalize what we're doing. It's the same thing like basic parenting strategies.

You're going to say, oh, I'm feeling sad today. This is what I did. So that kids will learn this is how I validate myself. This is how I name my emotion. And this is what I'm going to do to manage that emotion. So Dr. Laurie, what is being done in Canada? Like, is there anything that we have to regulate youth gambling here? So in terms of youth gambling there are things that regulate. So we know that

there's age restrictions like I mentioned depending on province between 18 and 19 years old. There are advertising regulations banning celebrities and using athletes to kind of advertise for gambling activities in order to reduce the appeal, saying we can't advertise during shows or during things that we know youth are more like to be watching. Provinces are trying to monitor online gambling activities and regulate online gambling platforms. But, you know, as we saw, it's difficult to do. And it sounds like a lot of the regulation that we have is around kind of gambling

with you know a capital G but when we're talking about youth gambling and gaming or something is there anything to regulate those activities? So that's where it gets a little less clear. There is talk around it but right now there are no specific laws that kind of look at targeting skin bedding or loot boxes in Canada, things have to move forward. Definitely. Are there any other countries that have tackled youth gambling more directly than we have here?

In some of the European countries, there are more regulations either that they've outright banned things like loot boxes, or they consider them gambling. And they say that they have to be regulated in the same way that gambling is regulated. So having things like age regulations or age restrictions, being aware of what the odds are. So if you're gonna put a loot box in, you have to also put advertisement in the game saying,

what are the odds of you actually winning something big in this loop box? So having more kind of awareness and education. So Dr. Laurie, I imagine some people might be listening and wondering if they're a parent who's hearing this and maybe worried that their kids could be at risk of problem gambling in some way, what advice would you give them?

I mean, definitely to have a conversation with your adolescent, I think communication is key. So knowing what they're doing, being aware of those like signs on in terms of behavioral signs and keeping in mind the activities they're engaging in or what friends they're spending time with because we know it's a developmental area where they're gonna gain more autonomy, they're gonna be on on their own more, which we want. And friends have a bigger influence on them, which is normal. But it's important that if we do that, and we allow that, we also educate them on the risks around these different behaviors. And it's not to villainize any of these activities.

I don't want parents to go out there and like take out all the gaming consoles and say, you're not going to game anymore. The idea is to play responsibly. If your teen is, you know, playing video games a lot, understanding, okay, but is that the only way they have like a sense of efficacy? Do they feel good about themselves when they play the video games? That's important too.

Are they playing video games and having a lot of social interaction? For some teens, that's where they get their social interaction, that's where they talk to their friends. So that's important to have too. The real issue of when it becomes a problem is if it's having a significant impact on their daily functioning. And I guess if you're a young person and you know you're worried that maybe you might have an issue here, what are some of the ways that they can think through this to kind of figure it out?

The important part is always prevention. So being educated and understanding kind of the risks. If you're gonna engage in gambling activities, know that it's not actually a high probability that you're gonna win, kind of setting yourself limits for how much you're gonna spend or how long you're gonna play. And if you start seeing that you're going to win, kind of setting yourself limits for how much you're going to spend or how long you're going to play.

And if you start seeing that you're struggling with that, or on the same time you're struggling with your gaming behavior, not necessarily to feel ashamed or guilty. And it's okay to ask for professional help, get the professional help to really learn those skills to kind of work through your emotion regulation skills and understand that there is kind of a light at the end of that tunnel. People can help you and teach you how to, we always say we want to ride the wave of our emotions. So people can help teach you how to ride that wave rather than being stuck and crashing into it. Dr. Laurie, thank you so much for taking the time to be here.

No problem. Thank you for having me. It was a pleasure. That was Dr. Laura Dana-Marquica. She's a pediatric psychologist at the Montreal Children's Hospital. That's it for today. I'm Maynika Ramon-Welms. This episode was produced by our former intern, Amber Ranssen. Our intern is Olivia Grandy. Our associate producer is Aja Souter. Our producers are Madeleine White, Michal Stein, and Ali Graham.

David Crosby edits the show. Adrian Chung is our senior producer, and Matt Frainer is our managing editor. Thanks so much for listening, and I'll talk to you tomorrow.