The Decibel - How Minnesota is fighting ICE on the ground — and in the courts

Episode Date: January 28, 2026

Some of the 3,000 federal agents in Minnesota are set to leave following the killings of U.S. citizens Renee Nicole Macklin Good and Alex Pretti. ICE and U.S. Border Patrol officers have been in the state enforcing U.S. President Donald Trump’s immigration agenda since December amid growing unrest. Now, Minnesota is suing the federal government, arguing that the Trump administration is breaching people’s rights and acting beyond its powers. And what happens next on the ground and in the courts could set a precedent, as ICE operations continue throughout the U.S.Globe staff reporter Joe Friesen was in Minnesota and he’s on the show today to explain what life is like for people there, how the ongoing fight between the state and federal governments is unfolding, and where the situation could go from here.Questions? Comments? Ideas? Email us at [e-mail] Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

This week, some of the 3,000 federal agents in Minnesota are set to leave. Immigration and Customs Enforcement Officers, or ICE, and Border Patrol officers, have been in the state enforcing U.S. President Donald Trump's immigration agenda. The state, and especially the city of Minneapolis, have become a flashpoint since federal agents fatally shot two people. Renee Good and Alex Prettie, both 37. Now, Minnesota is suing the Trump administration over its immigration crackdown. State lawmakers say what's happening there is an overreach of federal power.

What happens next on the ground and in the courts could set a precedent as ICE operations continue throughout the U.S. Globe staff reporter Joe Friesen was in Minnesota just after Renee Good was killed. He's on the show today to explain what life is like for people there, how the ongoing fight between the the state and federal governments is unfolding and where this situation could go next. I'm Cheryl Sutherland, and this is the decibel from the Globe and Mail. Hi, Joe. Thanks so much for coming on the show. Thank you for having me. So just to say this is an evolving story, and we're speaking just after 1130 a.m. Eastern on Tuesday.

So Joe, both Minneapolis mayor, Jacob Frey and Minnesota Governor Tim Walls spoke with U.S. President Donald Trump on Monday. What do we know about those calls? So it sounds as though there was some political fence mending going on and that the Trump administration was signaling that it maybe wants to take the tone down a little bit in Minnesota. We don't know for sure yet, but there may be a reduction in the number of Homeland Security agents in Minnesota coming. And the Trump administration is asking Minnesota to offer more cooperation to their enforcement efforts. Both sides have been pretty entrenched on this. But they do both seem to be signaling that they would. want to bring a little more peace to the streets of Minneapolis, particularly.

Yeah, okay. So there is a sense that potential de-escalation here. And another thing that happened is Greg Bovino, who's been in charge of the immigration crackdown in Minneapolis, is leaving the area. And Trump said he is sending in his borders are Tom Holman to take over. What will that change? Well, I think similarly, that's a signal that Trump wants to change the tone. And he's sending in a new person who is probably less combative.

So, Avino has been really on the front lines in all these cities where they've done immigration enforcement actions, setting a pretty aggressive tone. Calling all enforcement names like Gestapo or using the term kidnapping, that is a choice that has made their actions and consequences that come from those choices. In Minneapolis, for example, he got into confrontations in target stores with protesters. He was photographed at one point with some chemical irritants throwing them towards the crowd. He's a controversial figure, certainly. And I think simply just by replacing him, Mr. Trump might be taking the temperature down a bit. And Homan would report directly to Trump. So that is also a shift.

Yeah, definitely. So you're bringing somebody else in who will signal that there's some sort of change happening here. After the killings of Renee Good and Alex Pretti, the administration seems to have doubled down on this operation in Minnesota. Based on what's happening now, does it seem like what they were doing had the desire to effect? I don't know. So they've said that their intent is to get illegal, primarily dangerous criminals, those in the United States without documentation off the streets. They've said they've made 3,000 arrests in Minnesota, more than 3,000 arrests at this point. They might say that that has been, you know, mission accomplished. But what it has also done is it has turned the population

against the administration in quite a dramatic way. And more broadly, I think the scenes of upheaval, of discord of protest in Minnesota have spread across the country and the polling is showing that support for the president's immigration agenda is really dropping. So I don't know whether they've necessarily achieved their goals,

but the fact that the president is changing course which is not something he typically wants to do I think maybe indicates that he's sensing the public mood has shifted. Okay. Joe, you were actually in the area in Minnesota, specifically in Minneapolis and other parts of the state. And I want to talk about your time there.

So what did you see and hear from Minnesotans about how the shooting changed things? So I arrived in Minnesota the day after Ms. Goods killing. And the first stop I made was to the spot where it happened. And there was a memorial there. And people were badly shaken. I think it was one of those incidents that really has a transforming effect on the population. ICE enforcement had been going on since the beginning of December, what they're calling Operation Metro Surge.

And the public was, I think, certainly not supportive of it. but the killing of Ms. Good has galvanized a sense in the population that they are deeply, deeply opposed to what the Trump administration is doing here, and they weren't going to take it anymore. So talking to people, you know, what I heard is a lot of sadness, a lot of shock, and a lot of anger. Minnesota is a state that has gone through a lot of appeable in recent years. You remember the George Floyd protests of a few years ago. And some of the activism networks that were created around that time, particularly in South Minneapolis, the area where Ms. Goods killing took place. I think they were reactivated and the population started organizing and people were getting together asking themselves what they could do to resist ICE's presence in Minnesota. Yeah. Tell me more about that. Like what does that look like on the ground? Like how were they organizing?

Well, it's amazing to actually see it because you literally can notice on the streets. For example, when you pass a school, there's a parent every 10 meters and they stand sentry outside the school, protecting the students inside, warning them about ICE agents if they're seen. approaching. And there was some dramatic, chaotic scenes in the time when I was there of, of ICE trying to do an enforcement in a school area. And there were parents and teachers resisting, trying to protect students who they feared might be apprehended. In the wake of Ms. Goods killing, schools were closed for a few days. Some students have been staying home. When you see people, they're carrying whistles, they're monitoring their apps to see if there are notifications that ICE is in the area. And when ICE is in the area, they blow the whistle. They alert everyone they can. They come running to an area if an arrest is taking place. And they're working together

to achieve their goals. Something I noticed in watching some of these terrible videos, because they do take videos, right, of what's going on to have some sort of accountability for these agents. The sound is really dizzying, right? The whistles, it's quite loud. Look, what is it like when you're there? Because I'm sure that you were in places where you were hearing those whistles and seeing that activity. Yeah. I came across one in particular that I remember vividly. I got caught in traffic and I asked someone, rolled down the window and said, what's going on? And she said, there's an ice riot. So I got out of the car and went to sea. And the soundscape of the Minneapolis Street in an incident like this, there were hundreds of people who had just descended on the

area. And the whistles were overpowering, a really shrill, loud whistle over and over and over again. You know, I can specifically remember the crowd chanting, shame, shame, and sort of approaching the ice officers who were in the middle of the street and getting nearer and nearer and chanting louder and louder. And it was quite something to see. And then the officers feeling threatened would unleash tear gas to get the crowd back. And the big cloud of tear gas would plume in the air. And then the crowd would retreat.

And then as the gas went away, the crowd would come back. And so you had this sort of pulsing. They would get closer. They would be propelled. They would get closer. They would get repelled over and over again. And it was a really tense situation. Yeah.

We know that at one point there were about 3,000 federal agents on the around in Minnesota, including ICE and Border Patrol officers. They were all led by the U.S. Department of Homeland Security. That may be changing now, as we're talking about. But how disruptive has us been to daily life? In Minneapolis, it's quite disruptive. It's so noticeable that ICE agents are in so many places. And you can't quite explain how easy it is to bump into an ICE action or ICE officers.

It's happening all over the place. So one example that the Minneapolis mayor likes to cite is there's 3,000 officers there. that's five or six times as many Minneapolis police officers are in the city. So it's a significant number and they're out on the streets and they're active. I think for many people, it has disrupted their lives completely. They're afraid to go out to get groceries. They're afraid to send their kids to school, particularly for people from certain communities. Somali Americans are reporting that they're being stopped and asked for their papers.

For Latino people in the city, they're being stopped consistently. It's a frightening time. And these agents, they're everywhere. Like, they're in neighborhoods. Like, I'm thinking about, you know, if I walk out my door, would I see ice agents? Yeah, in some neighborhoods, yes, absolutely. They're going to homes and conducting searches, sometimes without warrants. They're stopping at recharging stations, sort of electric vehicle charging stations,

where a lot of Uber drivers will go, for example. They're targeting them. In Target stores, you might see them. But, you know, they've dragged employees out of Target stores. Target is a big Minnesota company. So it's very prominent in the state. it's amazing how present they are. You see them and they're quite visually striking when you see them because they are not

dressed in police uniforms. They're dressed almost more in military fatigues. They're almost entirely masked. Yeah, why do they wear the mask? What's with that? I don't know why they do it, but it makes it very difficult to identify them. And they seem to do it almost uniformly. Occasionally you see a face.

So I wouldn't say it's every single officer, but almost every officer I saw had a balaclav on or a mask pulled up above their nose. so that it's very difficult to identify them. They carry big weapons. They drive around in unmarked vehicles. So sometimes, you know, four people in a sedan, and all of a sudden they pop out on the street, and you've got a scene out of Fallujah or something

where there's a lot of heavily armed officers in the street, and, you know, they just came out of nowhere. It's, again, as I say, striking to see. It's really interesting to hear you talk about this, because, you know, of course, from my perspective, I'm in Toronto. I watch this on social media, and it seems quite volatile. but what you're describing is that on the ground itself is also very volatile.

It is, and you never know how these things are going to go, particularly since we've seen now two fatal incidents where ICE has had interactions with citizens. And the citizen population is really vehemently, angrily opposed to their presence. And I think that makes things more dangerous for all signs. You know, there have been a lot of calls for calm to stand back and let ICE do its work, but there are many confrontations that are aggressive. some escalate to violent and some have obviously escalated to tragic moments

where people have been killed. Yeah. What about outside Minneapolis? Because you traveled to other parts of Minnesota. What's the feeling there? Well, that's really interesting because, as you were saying, not everyone is able to see what's going on in the streets of Minneapolis. So they have a sense of it,

but they may not be watching the news regularly. And the mood there was much more ambivalent. Almost everyone I spoke to would say something like, well, I believe in law and order. And if there are people who are violating the law who are in the United States without permission, it's perfectly reasonable that they would be stopped, arrested, and deported. They don't perhaps see the impact that it's having on everyday life in Minneapolis. And maybe they don't understand why citizens are so opposed.

I think there's a big political divide in that country between the rural and urban areas. And Minnesota is a perfect example. Minneapolis is a very prosperous, highly educated, wealthy city that controls a lot of the power in the state. It's a blue state. It's a blue state. Yeah. It's voted Democrat 13 consecutive times in presidential elections, the longest streak in the country.

But it's also, I would say, a moderate state in that it's not politically radical. It's Midwestern. There's a sort of sense of practicality, good government. And I was also surprised to see how the divide between the city and the countryside was so evident. There was much more support, you know, I think of Minnesota's 87 counties, 78 of them voted for Trump. But the big ones are in Minneapolis. and they voted for the Democrats.

And that was enough to carry the state. So there's a lot of support for the Trump administration in rural areas. But while I was there, I could hear in people's voices that they were not pleased with what they were seeing. They didn't understand where this violence was coming from, why ordinary citizens were dying in these enforcement operations. So even in the red areas, that's what you were hearing. Yeah. Yeah. I would say it wasn't uniform and it wasn't necessarily so strongly stated.

But there was definitely some doubts, some sense that this is not how they wanted things to be done in Minnesota. And so we think of this enforcement as happening primarily in Minneapolis, where many undocumented people would live. But Minnesota is also an agricultural state. And you have to remember, many undocumented workers end up in agriculture, for example. So they're in smaller centers. I was in St. Cloud, which is a city of about 70,000 northwest of Minneapolis.

And I'd stopped for lunch. And as I was walking out of the restaurant, I saw people being stuffed into the back of an SUV by men in fatigues with masks. and I could see someone on the phone she was visibly upset. As I walked up, the vehicle drove off. The door was still open, sort of limbs hanging out the back, and it was speeding out of this parking lot.

And I asked the woman what had happened, and she was saying, they just took two of our employees. They just took them. They had asked me to walk them to their car. They were nervous, and they were barely 30 feet from the store by the time,

but the apprehension happened. And it was all very quick, you know, a matter, of moments and they were gone. And then I think many people are in these situations don't know what to do next. Now what happens? Where have they been taken?

Did you talk to anyone else outside Minneapolis who knew people taken by ice? So I met another family in a rural area, a place called Gaylord, population 1,000, so small that they took the traffic light out a decade ago because it wasn't needed. And the family had lived there for 20 years. The mom was from Honduras.

And she had two teenage children born in the U.S. so they were citizens. And she had gone to the bank one day and then never came home from her errand. Kids had no idea what had happened. And then someone posted on Facebook a photo of Homeland Security agents surrounding their mom's vehicle.

And then they didn't know where she was. They didn't know what to do. So they started calling. You can imagine in an operation like this, many people are being apprehended. The agents on the other end of the line don't know what to do. Don't know how to connect these kids to their mother.

The son was saying, I just need to speak to my mother. And the agents would just say, can't help you. Hang up. And he was just devastated. And within a day, she had been flown to Texas

to a big migrant holding sender on the border. And so now who knows what will happen. Did he ever get to talk to his mom? He did get to speak to her. He's had a couple of phone calls with her for about 30 seconds, where she just says she's okay. But he said his biggest fear

is that she wouldn't know how hard he's working to try to fight for her. That's what scares him. Anyway, they're hiring a lot. lawyer and they're hoping to argue her case. We'll be right back. The leaders changing Canadian business don't always make the headlines, but you can change that by voting in the Report on Business Best Executive Awards. For the past five years, the Report on Business Best Executive Awards have celebrated Canadian non-CEO leaders helping innovate and push Canada's economy forward.

If you know a leader in finance, human resources, tech, operations, sales, and marketing, then share their story and nominate them today. They could be one of 50 winners of this year's Report on Business Best Executive Awards. Nominate a Best Executive at tgatim.ca.ca. The nomination deadline is January 31st. Joe, there's been a lot of tension between government leaders in Minnesota and the Trump administration. Trump and DHS have suggested that the state hasn't been cooperating with the federal government's immigration enforcement. Is there any truth to that?

Well, if you look at the situation on Minneapolis streets, and this is what J.D. Vance was talking about when he was in the state last week, that it is a bit chaotic. And he's asking, where are the Minneapolis police to enforce law and order? It's true often that you don't see Minneapolis police, but you see ice everywhere. Now, the mayor of Minneapolis has said that's a product of the fact that, ISIS creating chaos and the police cannot keep up with the chaos. So, for example, in that one scene that I described earlier where there was tear gas and a chanting crowd, that had all begun with a man who was stopped for no clear reason. He was driving his vehicle and they literally rammed into his vehicle while he was driving

to stop him, pulled him out and said, who are you? And he said, I'm an American citizen. Now, that created enormous chaos. The whole street was blocked for probably 45 minutes. citizens descended on it. They were, there was chanting, there was gas. You know, an hour later, when I circled back and I interviewed the man and asked what it happened, while we were talking, two Minneapolis police vehicles arrived because

they have the job of taking the accident report. And that's what they had to do. There had been an accident and someone has to report on it. And that was going to tie up several officers. It's a lot of paperwork for a certain period of time. So, you know, when you ask where Minneapolis police officers are, I think the mayor of Minneapolis would say they are cleaning up a mess that has been brought by all this chaos brought by the federal government. From the federal government's perspective, they don't feel protective.

Their agents are out there. They're facing hostile crowds. And they have to watch their own backs. And it is a very dicey situation at times. Let's get into what's going on off the ground in the courts. Minnesota's Attorney General Keith Ellison is suing the Trump administration. And on Monday, the case began in federal court. What is Minnesota arguing? So Minnesota is suing the federal government trying to stop this ICE operation, saying that it represents a federal overreach. In the United States, there are certain powers that are allocated to the state, certain powers allocated to the federal government, just like we have in Canada. But what Minnesota is arguing is that the federal government is making it impossible by its immigration enforcement action to basically keep the peace.

And the federal government is routinely violating people's civil rights in the state. and that this represents overreach. And so there's a kind of a collision going on. The United States also has a principle of federal supremacy so that in areas where the federal government does have jurisdiction, like immigration, for example, that they can enforce the law. That's why they're operating in Minnesota.

That's why they have the legal right to do so. But the practicality of it is creating this conflict. And Minnesota is saying, you're going too far. You are now getting into our business when we need the courts to settle this. Right. Okay. And so it sounds like this is a pretty interesting,

case because it will establish who is in control. Yeah, that's right. I think if Minnesota were to win this, it puts a check on the federal government's power. And it says that there has to be a certain balance between what the federal government wants to do and the rights of the states. What have we heard from the Trump administration about this lawsuit? I think their view is that they're in the right. Their view is if Minnesota could just offer them enough protection, enough cooperation to be able to carry out their operations, everything would go smoothly. And it's Minnesota's failure to do so that has caused all these problems that has led to the violence and the incidents, unfortunately, where people have lost their lives.

What happens if Minnesota wins? And how likely is that to happen? So I was speaking to a law professor who said Minnesota has a reasonably strong argument. And Minnesota is seeking a temporary restraining order, which might even be considered a victory if they were granted that in its own right. Because that would at least slow down the ice operations in the state for now. and maybe buy some time to bring some calm to the situation. If they were to win, I think that it would be significant, but I don't know. Once it's in a court, it's really hard to say. Could this lawsuit have an impact in other states?

I think it could. I think Illinois has filed a similar one, not entirely the same. There are several other states that are supporting the arguments that Minnesota and Illinois are making. It would sort of set the precedent, I guess. You know, these immigration operations have been happening in many other places. I imagine that the Trump administration's plan is to continue taking these operations around the country. You know, if this establishes a limit on federal power, then I think it could shape how those operations go in future. Let's take a minute here to talk about the investigations of the two people who were killed in Minnesota.

Who's in charge of that? Is it Minnesota? Is it Washington? Well, what's happened is that Washington has asserted its right to control these investigations. Minnesota is not at all happy about that. They wanted to be part of the investigation into the killing of Renee Good from the beginning, and they thought their Bureau of Criminal Apprehension would be included in the process. They understood that the federal government would have its own investigation to carry out as well, but for local accountability, and I think for transparency, because there has been a real erosion of trust in the federal system in the last few years, I think for transparency, they wanted their own

investigators to be on the ground. But what has happened is that the federal government has essentially blocked them. Are they allowed to do that? Is that normal? I don't think it's normal. I don't think this is how things have gone in the past in the United States, but I think it's legally potentially defensible. I think they have an argument.

It's somewhat complicated to get into, but I think there is sort of a 19th century precedent for the federal government asserting its supremacy in this kind of case where a federal agent was on the ground working and something results that required an investigation. So no, I would say it's not normal. in the course of events, you would want local authorities to be able to investigate. But what's happening is that they just cannot get access to the evidence. So they would want to investigate, for example, the federal agent involved. They would want to investigate other federal agents who are witnesses.

They would want to have access to the physical evidence. And in the killing of Ms. Good, they did not get that. In the case of Mr. Preddy, they immediately launched a legal action in order to force the federal government to preserve evidence. and they did win in the short term on that case over the weekend, that evidence be preserved. So we will see what happens with that. Okay. Just lastly, Joe, even with a change in leadership and some agents leaving, the Department of Homeland Security has not announced any plans to stop operations in Minnesota at this point. Two people are dead.

A five-year-old was detained at one point, and their ongoing accusations of federal agents operating aggressively or outside of the law, like entering homes without warrants or interfering in people's right to film. Joe, based on what you heard from people involved here, what do they say needs to happen to really de-escalate the situation? Well, I think if the federal government were to signal that it is de-escalating the situation by, you know,

and I think it has taken some of those steps, that it's brought in a new supervisor with Tom Holman, if it were to then say, and it may over the next day or so, that it's going to remove some of the DHS officers to reduce the size of the, the force. I think that would go some way to appeasing the people in Minneapolis who are so opposed. The federal government may demand that Minnesota offer similarly some kind of cooperation or some sort of further enticement for the federal government to step down in that way. We'll have to

see how it goes. I think for there to be de-escalation, there has to be a less visible ice presence in the state. I think people have also complained about ISIS training and their tactics. I think if their tactics and training were slightly different, it could change how things are perceived. When you want some, they're quite different than police officers. They conduct themselves in a very different way. Police officers are trained to de-escalate from the beginning in most kinds of situations. And so they just approach things in a different manner. And I think that may be part of the issue as well. Joe, thank you so much. I really appreciate it. Thank you. That was Joe Friesen, a staff reporter with The Globe. That's a

for today. I'm Cheryl Sutherland. Our producers are Madeline White, Mikhail Stein, Ali Graham, and Rachel Levy McLaughlin. Our editor is David Crosby. Adrian Chung is our senior producer, and Angela Pichenza is our executive editor. Thank you for listening.