The Decibel - On board a Canadian warship in the Pacific

Episode Date: October 3, 2024

Canada’s Navy has been expanding its presence in the Pacific, as tensions with China rise, leaving vital trade routes in potential danger. At the same time as they recommit their efforts to the region, the military as a whole faces issues around funding and recruitment, raising questions about its future direction. The Globe’s Asia correspondent James Griffiths spent a week aboard The HMCS Vancouver as it engaged in war games in the West Pacific, to learn more about Canada’s evolving naval strategy.James Griffiths spent seven days onboard the HMCS Vancouver in August and September 2024, during which he was subject to a Media Embedding and Ground Rules Agreement with the Canadian Navy. The Navy did not review this episode.Questions? Comments? Ideas? Email us at [e-mail]

At the end of the summer, The Globe's Asia correspondent, James Griffiths, boarded a ship. It's probably the size of like an oligarch superyacht, a ridiculously big superyacht, but not the size of kind of an aircraft carrier. It's not, you know, incredibly huge. It holds around 230 people. It's the HMCS Vancouver, one of the biggest ships in the Canadian Navy. The engines on those ships are big and they are very, very noisy. So there is basically a constant kind of background hum

or, you know, louder than a hum all the time. And then, you know, it's a lot of kind of fluorescent lighting on these corridors, pretty narrow spaces. But, you know, I have to say, for me, I found it surprisingly comfortable. James negotiated for months to join the Navy at sea and agreed to some basic rules. So there's no limits on what we can report from the ship. It's all about kind of how I behave on the ship. So I was subject to kind of ship discipline the same as anyone else on board. It's all about kind of how I behave on the ship. So I was subject to kind of ship discipline the same as anyone else on board. We actually had a lot of access.

The Vancouver was taking part in war games in the West Pacific, where Canada and its allies test out different scenarios in this strategically important region. But even as it expands its involvement in these kinds of exercises, Canada's Navy is facing issues with its funding and recruitment. So today, James joins us to talk about Canada's role in the West Pacific and what the future holds for the Navy. I'm Mainika Raman-Wilms, and this is The Decibel from The Globe and Mail. What is the role of our Navy? Well, according to the Navy itself, its purpose is to, quote, protect Canadian sovereignty and interests at sea at home and abroad, while also contributing to promoting global stability and enforcing international law.

And what that really boils down to is kind of two broad functions. One is, you know, patrolling Canadian waters, acting as a deterrent to any kind of illegal activity or aggression in Canadian waters. So from both the coasts all the way up to the Arctic territories. And then also conducting law enforcement missions, which normally happen kind of down in the Caribbean, you know, drug smuggling interdictions. More recently, there's been North Korean sanction busting patrolling in the Pacific. So looking for ships that are swapping oil or other supplies in a way to get around sanctions against North Korea. And then also there is the more,

what you might call military actions, things like conducting freedom of navigation operations through the Taiwan Strait or the South China Sea, or taking part in multi-force war games like the one that I joined off Guam. And the ship that you had joined, this was in, I guess, the West Pacific then there. So that's kind of that region of the world is what you were engaged with. Yeah. So this is as far as Canada really goes away from its home shores. The HMCS Vancouver was patrolling the Western Pacific for about six months this year. And this is what we were really interested in because Canada has been increasing its footprint and increasing its commitment to the Pacific, which really means the Western Pacific, you know, where most people live rather than the Canadian West Coast. So we wanted to see what that looks like.

And I do want to talk about our operations in the West Pacific in a moment. But just to back up for a second here, James, how big is our Navy? It's relatively modest. Canada has a Navy around 68 ships. To put that in context, it's about the same as Germany's, half the size of the UK's. And of course, you know, nowhere near as large as the biggest names in the world, which are Russia, China's and the US, which are hundreds and hundreds of ships. The core of the Canadian fleet are these 12 Halifax class frigates, of which the HMCS Vancouver is one. And they're designed for

anti-submarine, anti-aircraft, anti-ship operations. There's also a number of smaller offshore patrol and coastal defense ships. And then Canada also has a small submarine fleet as well. And the ship that you were on was operating in the West Pacific, like we touched on a little bit earlier. Why have we been focused on this region, James? Canada's always had a naval footprint in the Pacific. You know, Canada is a Pacific nation, and one of the most important naval bases is on the West Coast. And for years now, Canada has taken part in joint exercises, US-led exercises in the Pacific. But in recent years, Canada has played a more active role in the Pacific, mainly because of

growing concerns among Western nations about Chinese activity in the Pacific. So fears of conflict over Taiwan or in the South China Sea. And it's seen as important for Western nations or US allies to strengthen the deterrent to potential aggression in those regions, you know, particularly as China has been building bases in the South China Sea and really expanding its aggressive naval footprint there. And so, you know, asserting things like freedom of navigation through the Taiwan Strait or freedom of navigation through the South China Sea itself, which are, you know, hugely important trade corridors. And so, you know, the thinking goes that what happens in those trade corridors and the fact that those trade corridors remain open affects Canadians back home because it

affects Canada's economy. The concern, I think there wouldn't be any immediate effect to shipping, of course, but the concern would be that China could cut that off whenever it likes and could, you know, exercise a huge amount of control over it. That also sets up, you know, any future conflict over Taiwan would be easier if China already has control of the Strait and already has naval supremacy in the Strait. In terms of the South China Sea, this is a hugely disputed region where China has territorial disputes with almost all of its neighbours there, and has been growing its footprint in the South China Sea incredibly aggressively in the last decade or so. And again, this is where a vast amount of the world's shipping goes through. And so for one nation to control all of that shipping, or, you know, control access for all of that shipping

would be, you know, very detrimental to a lot of other countries' interests in the region. I guess within this context, then James, when you were on that ship, you actually got to see war games that the Navy was undergoing. What was that like? So the HMCS Vancouver was part of a small squadron of about a dozen ships, including support ships of the US, South Korean and Japanese navies, conducting exercises in a manner that they might do where there are real conflict scenarios. So they're doing things like trying maneuvers. The target is inbound Dewey.

We have a green range. Stand by for a firing run. Standing by. They were firing two missiles. Though actually both of those missiles failed. Dewey has had a non-successful firing based on a dud missile. The intention is for Dewey to reset the target. The target will and a Japanese ship failed to fire their missiles, which as someone said to me was, you know, why we practice. There were also various kind of scenarios so that the ships would

split into teams and try and compete to gain control over a certain region. No one on board will admit to you that these are aimed at anyone, these types of exercises. You know, it's not hard to see who the potential adversary is. There's a lot of anti-submarine activity going on. There was a Japanese sub that acted as an enemy sub that the others could hunt. And, you know, that mainly is China or Russia when we're talking about submarines. It is kind of very much geared towards both improving kind of interoperability between these navies, but also practicing for potentially some kind of real activity in future. James, let's come back to the Canadian Navy now. I want to ask you about

funding because Canada has gotten a lot of attention recently for not hitting our NATO commitment of spending 2% of our GDP on our military, right? For example, this year, I think we're only expected to spend about 1.4% of GDP on our military. So how is this smaller amount of funding affecting the Navy's operations? One piece of context I would add is that Ottawa is definitely not alone in missing these targets. But, you know, what is seen as the underfunding of the military has definitely had an effect on all branches of the service, maybe especially so on the Navy, just because, you know, the Navy is one of the most expensive branches, you know, big ships like Halifax class frigates are incredibly expensive, both to build and to refit later on.

And so, you know, using the NATO benchmark of 2%, a defence analyst called Richard Shimuka, he estimated that the military has been underfunded by about 147 billion US dollars during the last 10 years or so. And this is, you know, effective procurement. It's the reason a lot of the ships in the Navy are so old. You know, There is a very overdue supply ship program that still hasn't been delivered that they've spent hundreds of millions of dollars on. And this shortfall affects capacity going forward. And it means that Canada is even more dependent on allies than it perhaps should be, or that perhaps a lot of people would

like to see it be. And the government has recognised this as part of increasing spending. They said in an April white paper that they would spend close to 10 billion Canadian dollars on expanding the life of the Halifax-class frigates, which is maybe a double-edged sword for some people who want to see more spending in this region, because while that is spending on the Navy, that's also sustaining these already quite old ships rather than looking at replacing them. But it also said that they would be looking at potentially expanding the submarine fleet as well. I guess a question I have, though, is like, do we really need brand new ships for our Navy? Like, I guess I'm just wondering here, James, given all the other priorities of the federal government,

is this kind of investment in our Navy worth it? That's a good question. And I think it's one that there maybe needs to be more debate about. In Canada, we don't see a huge amount of debate on, you know, what do the Canadian public want to see their military look like? Canada is part of NATO, so it does have certain commitments that it's already made in terms of military force and its capabilities. People that want to see more spending on the military in general would argue that challenges are changing rapidly. You know, 20 years ago, Canadian engagement was, military engagement was in Afghanistan, or it was looking at police actions in various parts of the world, or anti-terrorism

work. And that's changed significantly, that the challenge is now much more of a Cold War challenge of potential other serious military powers, threatening Canadian forces around the world. And to keep up with that challenge, you need to modernize and you need to expand your military. Whether Canada can do that is another question, both in terms of spending and in terms of this long backlog of underfunding and lack of procurement. And so some people would like to see a more kind of realistic debate about maybe even, yes, Canada should spend, but should it spend in a more targeted way? Do we have a sense, James, of how our Navy is actually seen by other countries, how it's viewed? My impressions from talking to analysts and the military people, the Canadian Navy and the Canadian military at large is seen as a very valued ally.

Commander Tyson Bergman, who was the captain of the Vancouver, he said that during preparations for Operation Pacific Vanguard, which is this exercise I was on, some US counterparts commented that Canada was definitely punching above our weight. I spoke to a naval analyst, Lucas Filler, a former, he used to work at US Indo-Pacific Command, and he said that, quote, the numbers are limited, but the quality is top notch. So the Canadian military is seen very positively among its allies. At the same Strait last year, there was a commentary on a People's Liberation Army website, which kind of dismissed Canada as any kind of real threat. And they said, quote, its military presence and influence in the region are unnoticeable, not constituting a comprehensive threat at all. So while Canada may have a very high quality, well regarded Navy, because of its size, it's not necessarily changing the dynamics in the region very much on its own. We'll be back in a moment. All right, James, so we talked about funding issues with the Navy. Now let's look at another issue that they're facing, which is recruitment. How

bad are the Navy's recruitment issues? So again, like funding, this is military-wide. Defense Minister Bill Blair has said that the whole military is facing a, quote, death spiral because of the level of attrition that's going on. The armed forces at large is short around 16,000 people or 15% of the authorized strength of 71,500. So, you know, there is a major recruitment shortfall across the military at large. And the Canadian Navy and navies in general are really struggling around the world because this is a very difficult job. You're away from your family and friends for a really long time. You're in potentially dangerous conditions. You know, you've got to deal with seasickness.

You've got to deal with living in cramped quarters with a lot of other people. And that can be difficult to sell to people nowadays. The Navy has struggled to make that case. You know, they try and emphasize how much more diverse the service is and kind of expanding the potential recruitment field for them. And they, you know, emphasize the sense of adventure.

And, you know, a lot of people I spoke to on board were kind of saying that, you know, obviously, they are members of the Navy, so the recruitment worked on them. But, you know, they were talking about the things they've been able to see and the experiences they've had only by being part of the Navy. You know, one example was during the trip that I was on, there was a plan to do a swim exercise in the Mariana Trench, you know, the deepest spot on earth. And, you know, that's the kind of experience you are really pretty much only going to have in a Navy. And, you know, there's things like there's Wi-Fi on board ships now, so you're not completely cut off from your family in the way that you once were. The food on board is actually very good. And members of the Navy told

me that it's consistently been good, that this is one area they recognize they can control morale. That's kind of a surprising thing. I wouldn't have expected that, you know, the food is kind of a highlight here. Yeah, absolutely. You know, I spoke to one of the chefs. You know, he used to work at a high-end French restaurant in Montreal before he joined the Vancouver.

So, you know, these are people that really know what they're doing. And as well as the normal meals, breakfast, lunch, and dinner, there's also in the Canadian Navy, and I think in the British Navy as well, there is a 10 a.m. soup ritual, I think is the best way to describe it. So they always have soup at 10 a.m., you know, no matter the... Like breakfast soup? I mean, just kind of, I mean, I guess more like a lunch soup. One of the medics on board who, you know, had joined after being a paramedic in, in the Toronto area, you know, he was kind of saying, you know, of all the things I expected the Navy, I definitely never expected people to be so obsessed with soup. Yeah, and this is but this is a ritual that dates back a long time and is kind of, you know, seen as this

key part of the naval identity within the wider military. So, you know, there are things like that. There are, you know, there is definitely a, you know, huge sense of patriotism from people you speak to on board and, you know, kind of shared desire for service. But at the same time, everyone recognized that this is something the Navy is struggling with, to the extent that some have proposed that this is another reason for kind of maybe scaling back Canada's military ambitions that, you know, maybe there should just be a more, a Navy that sticks to the coasts and is, you know, more about defense than about kind of projecting Canadian power beyond its borders.

Yeah. So James, where does the Navy go from here? I mean, after everything that we've talked about here, what does, I guess, the future really hold for the Canadian Navy? So the future of the Navy obviously is dependent on what happens with funding. You know, if Canada starts to hit the 2% NATO target, that will have a difference, though there is still a major backlog when we're talking about procurement and modernization.

It's a potential that really to solve that backlog, Canada would have to go far above the 2% NATO target, which is, most people agree, is very unlikely, especially given other challenges that are facing Canada from a budgetary perspective. If Canada does continue to, what some people see as underfund the military, two things might happen.

It can kind of slowly putter along, decreasing in size, decreasing in capabilities, you know, as ships get older, as it continues to struggle with recruitment. Or what some people have argued for is to say, look, let's be realistic about this. We're not going to invest the level of spending that we need to. So let's try and focus that spending where Canada needs it. You know, what's most important to Canadian defense, Canadian contribution to global

security. And luckily for the Navy, that's that probably is the Navy, because of in terms of, you know, projecting Canadian power around the world and contributing to allied efforts to do things like the free and open Indo-Pacific. So the Navy will probably be where a lot of the spending in future goes military-wise. And then in terms of cuts, they'll probably most likely hit the army more than anywhere else, which they already have to a certain extent. And it's not just the Navy in the Pacific, but also the Atlantic Canada plays a role when it comes to deterrence around Ukraine. And then also increasingly, one of the most important growth areas, as it were, for the Canadian Navy is the Arctic. The demands of the Canadian Navy in both the Pacific and the Arctic are, you know, really going to probably sustain it as a service and mean that it's where a lot of Canadian military spending ends up.

James, this was really interesting. Thank you so much for being here. Thanks for having me. That's it for today. I'm Mainika Raman-Wilms. This episode was produced and mixed by Kevin Sexton. Our producers are Madeline White, Michal Stein, and Allie Graham. David Crosby edits the show. Adrienne Chung is our senior producer, and Matt Frainer is our managing editor. Thanks so much for listening, and I'll talk to you soon.