The Decibel - On the new frontlines of Myanmar’s civil war

Episode Date: January 30, 2024

Myanmar has been embroiled in a bloody civil war for nearly three years, after the military staged a coup in 2021. The war was stuck in a stalemate but that is changing – the resistance forces have been gaining ground, and Siegfried Modola has been there documenting some of the battles.Modola is a photojournalist and documentary photographer who has been reported on the conflict during several trips into Myanmar for The Globe and Mail. Today, he takes us to the new frontlines of the country’s civil war, and explains the toll this conflict is having on the people of Myanmar.You can see Modola’s reporting and photography here: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-myanmar-civil-war-opposition-photos/Questions? Comments? Ideas? E-mail us at [e-mail]

We were in the countryside and this was the beginning of an operation in Kaya, Kareni state. The junta, the military junta saw the Kareni resistance advancing towards their outpost and basically they had time to actually position their mortars, even if they were small, very deadly, and start aiming and shooting mortars towards where the resistance was advancing, towards where I was, and, you know, together with younger soldiers at that moment. Siegfried Modala is a photojournalist and documentary photographer. He's been reporting on the bloody civil war in Myanmar for The Globe.

At a certain point, everyone was trying to run for cover. All the soldiers around me were trying to figure out from which direction this mortar shelling was coming. What he's describing is a battle between the military regime and the resistance forces he was with. And a group of us, so there must have been 12, 15 other soldiers where I was, and the resistance forces he was with. from these incoming mortars that were exploding close by. One of them, you can see in the picture, landed very close, must have been less than, I would say, 50, 60 meters away from us. One, in the moment that picture was taken, just a few minutes afterwards, landed even closer and wounded one of the young soldiers.

You can see the dust, the fumes rising from the ground just moments after the explosion, and you can see the expression, the fumes rising from the ground just moments after the explosion. And you can see the expression of this young Karenis soldier, this expression of fear, amazement, and him saying, well, we are still OK. Myanmar's civil war has been going on now for nearly three years, since the military staged a coup after a democratic election in 2021. Thousands of people have died, and at least two million people have been displaced. For a long time, the war was at a stalemate. But now, the resistance forces have been making gains against the military regime. And Siegfried has been there to document some of those battles. Today, Siegfried tells us about his journey to the new front lines of the Civil War

and the toll this conflict is taking on the population of the country. I'm Cheryl Sutherland, and this is The Decibel from The Globe and Mail. Sigfried, thanks so much for being here today. Thank you for having me on the show. So Sigrid, you've done several trips to Myanmar in the past couple of years during this ongoing civil war, and you're one of the only foreign journalists who has been inside the country, and it's very difficult for you to get there. I just, I want to know, like, why do you keep going back? What's your goal? You know, we can start with actually acknowledging that

the situation in Myanmar is a very underreported story. International media is banned from covering the conflict in the country. The country has been in a state of war, we can say civil war, for the last three years since the coup in 2021, where the military junta overthrew the partially democratic elected government. I was offered a chance to work on this story after the coup, which I took. And two years ago, I went for the first time in January 2022, and I've been covering the conflict in Qayyar, in Qareni state,

for the last two years. I've been traveling to the area for four times, and I've been embedded with units of Qareni soldiers for a total of, actually, we can say more than five months now. So you're with the Karenis forces, which is a militia group fighting the military regime. Can you help us understand how did you get in with this group? Through it took months of preparation. I had to convince people at the top command of the Karenny army that I was fit enough to actually go physically inside the country. It takes days of walking to arrive where you have to arrive to cover the situation.

How did you convince them that you were fit enough? Basically, I had to travel to the border region and they had to meet me. And then one thing led to the other. I was lucky enough to meet some very influential people in the Karenii resistance, been embedded with the top commanders. They saw that every time I was going back, my work was luckily being published, which it's also a big thing. It's it's a big thing. It's, it's important to show this. Uh, but you say, you know, I'm here for a reason. And the reason is that I will shed light on what is happening. And this is the reason why they allow me to cover the story. Uh,

and basically I was embedded with the forces and then every trip I was embedded deeper inside the conflict and I understood the dynamics better. It's always this way. Okay, so that's interesting. So for you to be in with them, embedded with them, it helps them as well because it gets their message out to a wider public. Of course, you know, I think this is the, you know, this is, as you know, as I mentioned, it's a very underreported story. So I believe that the people that are involved in the conflict and the civilians, the parallel NUG government, the ethnic armed groups that are witnessing the conflict, are fighting the conflict and are bearing witness to the cost that the conflict has on the human population, on the civilian population, won't, you know, need journalists to show the world what is happening in the country.

And of course, I mean, your images like that, those really show the world what's going on there. Can you give me a sense of who joins these forces, like this Karenny militia group? And, you know, since the coup of 2021, you know, we can say that, you know, this is a countrywide revolution. We're talking about very young people that have left cities, have left their jobs, have left their families, farmers,

people from all over walks of life that are basically decided to either travel to ethnic controlled areas to train, pick up a gun, fight, or help in one way or the other, the revolution against the military junta to get rid of this dictatorship. So you were on the show just over a year ago. And the last time we talked to you, you had been in the jungle mostly, which is where the conflict was happening at that time. Where is the conflict happening now? What's changed?

When I went back the last time, which was in November and December last year, for the Globe and Mail, the situation was very different because on October 27 last year, an alliance of Northern ethnic militias launched a surprise attack, inflicting heavy losses on the military. This emboldened the Karenin resistance and they launched their own attack to try to take Lojko in November last year. Lojko is the capital of Karen state. So the biggest town, the administrative town, it's a very strategically, it's very important. And I arrived inside Lojko, let's say about 10 days after the start of the operation, because I was invited by some of the top commanders. I received a telephone call, I received a message, sorry, two days after the start of the

operation in November saying we've started, we've surrounded the Capitol and we are aiming to go 100% and take it. If you want to come, you know, we're waiting for you. They knew that I wanted to, that I would have been interested in covering this aspect of the story. This was an historical moment where, for the first time in the country, a state capital was about to fall in the hands of the resistance forces fighting the military. Wow. So you were there at this battle of Loico. What was that like? Totally different from anything that I witnessed before in the country. You know, now we were not talking anymore about countryside fighting, forest fighting or jungle fighting.

This was urban warfare, which is more risky. It's both building to building, street to street. Sometimes, you know, one building and in front there is another building hundred meters away and you have to control that building so there was much more mortar shelling much more bombs from from fighter jets the Karenin resistance lost 60 soldiers which is an incredible increase compared to the 200 soldiers that they lost in the three years of fighting. A totally different scenario to cover. But in the other hand, very important to be there as a journalist. The photos you're taking in Myanmar, I mean, there are these incredible

shots of active warfare. I mean, there's like shots of this one man who's holding, I guess, a grenade launcher, and you could see like the strain on his face as he's firing. It's just like these incredible shots that you're getting like right in the action. And I'm just wondering, what is it like for you to be in the middle of that? You know, the first thing that you try to do in the situations when you're covering conflict is try to be safe and not to get on the way of the people that are taking care of you so the group that you're embedded with so you know you follow and you try to you know you try to be alert on where people are going where the soldiers are hiding and you have to hear the sound of the artillery being shot.

You have to understand if it's incoming bullets or outgoing, just for you to be as safe as possible. So the best I could do was to actually do my job properly as a journalist, as a photographer. How close are you? Because in the pictures, it seems that you're right there. I was, yeah, I must have been, you know, I think from the guy shooting the RPG, I must have been, you know, three meters, two meters. Wow. I want to get a sense of the power imbalance between the resistance forces, because there is a power imbalance between the resistance forces and the military. Can you explain that? You know, the resistance have been fighting. It's a guerrilla warfare that they've been fighting for the last three years.

It's hit and run. They haven't been able to hold ground in a conventional way. Their strength, their strategy is based very much on the fact that they belong in the lands that they're fighting for. The population supports them. They know the terrain, they know the forest, they know the mountains, they know towns very well. However, on the other hand, the junta has the superiority of firepower. They've got minimal guns, they've got minimal bullets,

they've got artillery, they've got fighter jets, they've got trucks, they've got endless supplies of ammunition because they are making this ammunition. But what we are witnessing in the last months, in the last year, is that the resistance is becoming more knowledgeable on how to fight even in urban scenarios. They have more weapons, they have more funding, and they have a boost in morale because it looks like on the ground they're winning. Yeah, so despite this power imbalance, like you said, there is this momentum happening.

Can you just describe what that means for resistance forces, that they are building this momentum? From what I can's, from what I can understand, from what I can see in covering Karenis state, it means that there is hope. Hope for a tomorrow free of this military dictatorship. But let us not forget that the military junta has been in power for 70 years. It's difficult to imagine a tomorrow without them in power.

But if this happens, it's going to be definitely an historic moment. We'll be right back. Okay, let's talk about some of the people you met in Myanmar. Like there was this commander that you were stationed with named Rui Du. Can you tell me about him? Yeah, Rui Du is an exceptional person and an exceptional leader in many ways. First of all, his youth, he is 28 years old. He grew up in the refugee camp on the border regions of Thailand.

He was an activist before. And now he has risen to, you know, one of the highest ranks in the KNDF, the Karenian Nationality Defense Force. And he's one of the three top commanders fighting in the conflict. When you arrived, how did you meet him? Ridu was waiting for me, but of course, you know, the military, the junta had cut off all telephone and internet service, so I couldn't reach him. I hadn't reached him for one week since I was at the border. But I was with a group of

soldiers, you know, that they were escorting me from the border area into the middle of Karenny towards Lojko. I was told by one of the soldiers that they heard a word that Rido had been injured by Shrapnel. When I arrived, it was confirmed because I saw him. He couldn't walk properly, but he was still standing, you know, giving orders. He was having lunch with his men

and talking about the fight. Everyone looked exhausted. They were on the ground. I lost sight of Ridu for about 10 days. Then I met him again. He was better. But even himself, he told me, you know, he was worried

because he said, if I don't go and fight, if I'm not in the front line, my soldiers, I fear that my soldiers lack that motivation. You know, these are not conventional soldiers that are not being paid to fight. They're just there because they believe in the cause. They believe to defeat the military junta. They're there for a reason and they're there because of the leaders that they follow. Anyway, thanks God, Redou was well, I think. And then, you know, within two weeks,

he was back in action. Yeah. What ended up happening to Redou before you left? When Redou was fit enough to go back and fight, the first day that he went to the front line, unfortunately, his brother lost his life. His younger brother. He stepped on a landmine. They tried to drive Redou's young brother to hospital, but they were too far away. So it took five hours to reach hospital. And in these five hours in the car, basically they couldn't stop

the bleeding and he died. He passed. Oh no. How was Ritu doing after his brother died? What did he tell you? Basically he said, let's not be sad. This is the life we choose for ourselves. We fight and this is the price that we have to pay. But he said, I'm only very sad because of my mother. He was our youngest child. Wow. I want to ask about the landmines because this is something we talked about with you last time you were on the show. What's been going on in Myanmar with these landmines? You know, landmines have been put by the military junta in a massive scale. Civilian settlements, you know, towns, villages, and even the countryside. Basically, from what I've witnessed, every time the military retreats from an area

that they cannot control or they strategically decide to retreat, they put a lot of landmines. In this way, the civilians cannot come back. Wow. And this is against international law to use landmines? Yes, yeah. And if civilians cannot come back. Wow. And this is against international law to use landmines. Yes. Yeah. And if civilians cannot come back, then it means that the resistance cannot come back. Because without the civilians,

it's a chain reaction. You know, if a village is completely empty of civilians, then there is no one to farm the fields, no one to fend for the animals, no one, you know, to do anything. There is no shops, there is nothing, so the resistance cannot live in that village. Did you see any neighborhoods like that, like that were abandoned because of landmines? Yeah, you see them often. You see them on the edge of Loito, you see them on the edge of the Mosso. I traveled inside the town of the Mosso and it was a normal town in Karen state. When I came back now, basically the vegetation took over everything. The houses have disappeared inside the forest, the jungle.

The jungle took over, the forest took over. And I was told, yeah, I was like, yeah, this is areas that we cannot go back because there are just too many landmines. So these landmines are impacting the civilians because they can't go back home. But what does a civil war mean more broadly to the citizens of the country? This is also a question that we will have to wait and see what will happen in the future, in the months and in the years ahead. So from what I saw, from my expertise in what I witnessed, the fight is going to be long, because even if there is peace, what kind of peace there will be. We are talking about a country where there is a lot of guns.

We talked about the situation of landmines. We will need to see major de-mining exercises. So there is a lot of work ahead. And before this, they're still fighting. But I believe that people are tired. They're tired of the military dictatorship they're tired of the war they're tired of having to leave their homes not knowing when they come back from what I can see from from the people that I talk to this is a sacrifice that everyone I talk to is willing to make because Because a lot of people told me, if we don't fight now, we will just end up where we were before.

Slaves of the military elite, the military junta that run the country the way they want for their own benefits only. So the people that are involved in the revolution who want a change are totally determined. We just have to wait and see for how long they can be

and at what price. Siegfried, thank you so much for sharing your story and for being on the show. Thank you for talking to me. If you want to see Siegfried's photos, check out the link in our show notes. That's it for today.

I'm Cheryl Sutherland. Our producers are Madeline White and Rachel Levy-McLaughlin. David Crosby edits the show. Adrienne Chung is our senior producer Our producers are Madeline White and Rachel Levy-McLaughlin. David Crosby edits the show. Adrienne Chung is our senior producer. And Angela Pachenza is our executive editor. Thanks so much for listening.