The Decibel - The Federal Housing Advocate on the national encampment crisis

Episode Date: February 20, 2024

Canada’s first federal housing advocate released her first-ever formal review last week: Housing is a human right and that the federal government is failing people who are unhoused and violating a 2019 law by not providing adequate housing. That has led directly to a poverty and encampment crisis affecting cities and towns across Canada, leaving thousands of people struggling to survive.Marie-Josée Houle, Canada’s Federal Housing Advocate, joins the show to explain the full findings of her report and the pressure on governments to act now.Questions? Comments? Ideas? Email us at [e-mail]

Canada's first ever federal housing advocate, Marie-Josée Houle, released her first formal review last week. And it focused on homeless encampments. And here are some of the things that people who lived in these encampments told her, as read by members of the Decibel. You know, residents here know each other better than people who live in a high-rise. Outsiders don't know us. We get stereotypes of being criminals and drug users. Things would be different if people knew and understood the full situation. People can't afford to live.

It's crushing them. Using substances is a response. The only way we get accessible housing is if someone dies or goes to long-term care. I was homeless for eight years. response. The only way we get accessible housing is if someone dies or goes to long-term care. I was homeless for eight years and without the support of my peers, I wouldn't be alive today. The encampment community gave me a sense of belonging. We would listen and take care of one another. At least 35,000 people are unhoused in Canada at any given time, according to a York University research group. And one Canadian survey found that anywhere between 20 to 25 percent of people who are experiencing homelessness live in an encampment, with Indigenous people disproportionately represented.

The Advocates Office has calculated that Canada has a total shortage of 4.3 million affordable homes when it comes to housing people who have low or very low incomes. So today, I'm speaking with Canada's federal housing advocate, Marie-Josée Uhl. She's an independent, nonpartisan watchdog that holds the government to account. And we'll talk about what she found in her report. I'm Maina Karaman-Wilms, and this is The Decibel from The Globe and Mail. Marie-José, thank you so much for being here today. Well, thanks for having me.

To start, Marie-José, in your report, you talk about how everyone has the right to adequate housing, that this is, in fact, a human right. What do you mean by that? That in 2019, the federal government enshrined in domestic law that housing is a human right for everyone in Canada, meaning that they have a right to adequate housing. And that has seven very specific definitions, including affordability, accessibility, and habitability. For Indigenous folks, especially, it has to be also culturally relevant. You know, this is new to Canada. And to understand that anything related to housing policy has to start from a human rights framework. And this is the complicated part, because no one really knows what that is or how to do that. And by no one, I mean governments. So this has been a whole journey of educating and setting an example. And my report on encampments

not only is an example of how to do it using a human rights-based approach, but also all the recommendations are using a human rights lens and a human rights approach. So this is a right actually guaranteed in law, as you say, as of 2019. So if this is a human right and there are laws to back this up, why do we have it then that there are rules that make it illegal for people to camp on public lands, and then also sometimes rules against helping those people. How do we make sense of that? That's a very good question. First of all, you know, like I said, this is new,

and it needs to be enforced and permeate policy and procedure and funding at all levels of government. And these things take time really to understand. I've heard, you know, legal academics talk about the right to shelter in the media not too long ago without being aware that housing is a human right in Canada. So it's a huge shift for everyone in Canada and all the actors. In Canada, we have had a habit of, you know, a history of a top-down approach and a human rights approach, meaning that we focus on meaningful engagement with people who are directly affected, you know, on all issues around, you know, human rights and things that

affect them is really turning our approach on its head. It's difficult. Meaningful engagement is challenging. You know, it has a perception of taking so much longer. But, you know, when we put in solutions and policies and investments that fail every single time because they are about forcing people or around having a top-down approach, we really miss the nuance that's needed in order to get it right. So in fact, it takes longer and all these investments are wasted because we get it wrong every single time. So can we look at how this actually happens in practice? Like how do municipalities often deal with situations like this? Well, we have to understand that municipalities talk about encampments in two very peak periods. So the first peak period is around the end of winter when they have to consider that there are encampments in their communities.

And this is not just a large urban center issue. Encampments are everywhere. I've seen them in Pine House in northern Saskatchewan, you know, and even in the Great North. And so this is where they're going to be thinking about, are we going to be criminalizing poverty? Or are we going to think about really the reality of people and being angry about encampments, but not angry at people in encampments, and recognizing that people are encampments because there's a housing crisis. And, you know, in the end, that truly, fundamentally, people are in encampments because they have no safe place to go. But, you know, this is a crisis

and it's going to become a social crisis if it's not being addressed. You've had a chance to actually speak with people across the country about encampments who actually have experienced this. So what did you learn about what life is like for someone who lives in an encampment? People who are experiencing homelessness carry everything that they own on their backs. And to just be able to set it down and rest when they need to rest, as opposed to carrying it, dropping it, maybe being told they can't bring all of their items into a shelter after having stood in line to see if there is actually room in a shelter, then to be told there's a mat on the floor for you, and you're going to be sleeping in a

congregate setting amongst a bunch of strangers. And between this time and this time is when you're going to sleep. And in the morning, we're going to feed you and then we're going to kick you out. And then you're going to go through this all over again and you're going to take your items of survival. And because you're carrying all of the items on you, you're easily identified as someone experiencing homelessness and you're not welcome anywhere, even to use the bathroom. Can I ask you, though, so why would someone choose to live in an encampment versus be in a shelter? Like what are some of the barriers to being in a shelter for people? Well, there's not just about how, you know, people are kicked out in the morning. The barriers that people face also is that some shelters will not accept couples, for example. And, you know, being able to sleep with your partner is about having safety you know with

someone that you know someone that you are going to look out for and um you know even just having moral support and um some shelters do not accept pets uh most of them don't uh and some of them require sobriety and some people are not able to be sober. And then there's, you know, the issue of not being able to use alcohol or drugs while in the shelter. And yet, you know, when you're experiencing addiction, you know, when it hits, it hits, and there's no clock for that. And then of course, there's a lot of shelters are either co-ed, and women experience sexual violence. And then if you're non-binary, or if you're trans, then you're even that much more at risk of violence and sexual violence. So it really is an issue of personal protection. It's an issue of safety. It's an issue of, you know, shelters do not meet your needs.

So violence, of course, does unfortunately happen in shelters. But we also hear from some people who live near these encampments that they're worried about things like violence, and also things like drug use in their neighborhood. So what do you say to those people who are worried about these issues? Well, these issues would happen behind closed doors as well. And they would also happen in shelters. You know, when there is violence and sexual violence or illegal activity in an apartment building, for example, you don't evict everybody in the apartment building. You know, illegal activity is illegal activity. You have to deal with it on a case-by-case basis.

And I understand, again, you know, the public's perception that encamp them as tarnished because there's garbage and impose that, you know, people experiencing homelessness must deal with their garbage. But people who are housed every week has a truck that comes by their house and picks up their garbage for them. So, you know, we also need, you know, garbage pickup around encampments as well. So what you seem to be saying is basic services are essential for a place like this. So if people in a neighborhood are worried about, you know, essentially kind of the activity or what's happening in an encampment, you're saying services that, you know, would help meet these people's basic needs would actually help offset those concerns? Yes, absolutely. And it's also about, you know, treating people with dignity.

Let me ask you about fire risk for a second, though, because this comes up a fair bit. For example, some encampments in Edmonton were dismantled after there were three deaths related to fires and over 500 propane tanks were confiscated during these teardowns of the camps in the city. So how do we balance the risk of fire, something like fire, with the rights of people in these encampments? Well, you know, the risk of fire, they are real. They are absolutely real. And we've seen some horrific outcomes for people and deaths. And this is also why the issue of encampments and real solution needs to happen as soon as possible, because it is a question of life and death for people. But the reality is, it doesn't matter if you're experiencing homelessness in

Vancouver, where it's warmer, or if you're in Pine House in Saskatchewan, or in Edmonton, where, you know, it is often the coldest place on the planet. It is awful to think about spending the night outside in a tent without any kind of source of heat. So the police chief in Saskatoon had his team go around spending, you know, real time building trust with people and talking about fire safety, including a promise that if people did decide to go to a shelter, that their encampment is not going to be destroyed or raised or, you know, when they go back to it the next day. So it is really about building trust and doing things right and communicating things well, and not tricking people, because that too, compounds the trauma.

You mean tricking someone into like going to a shelter for an evening and then tearing down their their tent? Is that what you're talking about? Yeah, that's exactly what I'm talking about, because that happens often, too. We'll be right back. OK, Marisha, I want to I want to talk about what can be done to help people living in encampments so that ultimately there are fewer encampments. And specifically, I want to ask you about the federal government, since you are the federal housing advocate. So what exactly is the role of the federal government in building more affordable housing? Because a lot of it really comes down to that. That is exactly what it comes down to. So my report has called for federal leadership and a national encampments response

plan. So what that means is it needs to prioritize permanent housing solutions and make them available as quickly as possible. This is a national crisis. And because we've seen a patchwork of responses across the country, and an increasing number of court challenges, we absolutely need federal leadership on this. You know, we've called for it to be in place by August 31st of 24. And I've talked about the peak periods where municipalities talk about encampments. The second peak period where they talk about encampments is in the late summer, when they're thinking about what's going to happen to people who are sleeping rough this coming winter. The plan has to include new resources.

Does that mean like funding, essentially, when we say new resources? Yes, absolutely. This is the first federal government in over 30 years to invest this much money in housing, but it needs to be new resources. So it's not just carving out of an existing housing and homelessness program, you know, and then redirecting it towards encampments. You can't rob Peter to pay Paul. And then the federal government has to convene governments at all levels. We need to see a collaboration and a coordinated and consistent results, you know, to support municipalities. And then the plan has to respect human rights, but then they also have to respect Indigenous rights. Indigenous people are overrepresented in homelessness and encampments across the country, but especially as we move west of Ontario. And so, you know, this is not just a housing crisis and a human rights crisis.

It's also an indigenous rights crisis. Sometimes it's difficult to get these things done, though, because when we're talking about housing for people who are currently unhoused, what we're really talking about is supportive housing often. So basically affordable housing with on-site services. But there isn't always a lot of political will to build this housing because, I mean, it's often met with resistance from the community. For example, I'm thinking of a project in Toronto that's currently being fought. It's meant to provide 60 affordable units with mental and physical health on site. And there are some groups trying to oppose it in the legal system. So, Marisha, how reasonable is it to expect governments to deliver on these projects when they often face local opposition?

Well, I think it's about, you know, having a meaningful engagement as well with the communities. To live in a city, would you rather see people, you know, housed appropriately with supports? Because, you know, you're right in saying that a lot of people in encampments also require supports, and that is different from one individual to another. Encampments are the physical manifestations of how broken our housing and homelessness systems are, but then also, you know, the root causes, which we're calling the governments to deal with and to address are, you know, poverty, colonialism, racism, and the breakdown of our health system. So would we rather see people institutionalized for these things and

sequestered and to make people comfortable, out of sight, out of mind? Or do we rather see them visibly in our communities in tent encampments, where we know people are dying? Or do we want to see them housed appropriately? And this is really what it comes down to, is that, you know, when people are appropriately housed, they have a chance. And when they have a chance, it costs a lot less than seeing people trying to, you know, I think, overtaxing police systems, overtaxing emergency medical systems, you know, so we pay for it as taxpayers, we pay for it a whole lot more, because this is a whole generation that is being destroyed because of the housing crisis. In your report, Marie-Josée, you listed six calls to action for Canadian

governments at all levels to address encampments and homelessness more broadly. They cover a lot of ground, but I want to specifically talk about call to action number four, which is take immediate action to protect the rights to life and dignity of all people in encampments. So what does that look like? That means, first of all, meaningful engagement with people in the encampments. So what does that look like? That means, first of all, meaningful engagement with people in the encampments to find out what they need in terms of their basic necessities and making sure that their basic necessities are met. So safe drinking water, access to showers, hygiene, access to food, access to supports, access to mental health supports, access to, if this is where they're ready to be, is support around addictions and to protect people from the poison drug supply as well. Another point is that we must end forced evictions of encampments. When encampment residents are evicted, a lot of the tactics are of actually

destroying the items of survival that people have. And it's, you know, and sometimes it's also about picking up the items that people need that make them human. You know, it's not just ID, which is also incredibly important, but pictures of loved ones, you know, religious or spiritual symbols, ashes of loved ones as well. It's the treatment of people like their vermin, you know, if you want to, you don't want the rats around you to keep destroying their nests, so they'll go elsewhere. And this is the thing is that people will go elsewhere, but elsewhere means might be a question of life and death for them because it's pushing them further away from the resources that they need. And, you know, we've heard stories of women

giving birth in, you know, in the bush because their encampments were raised. And so then they had to disappear into the bush. The alternatives have to be designed following the meaningful engagement. Otherwise, you're going to get it wrong and you're to be designed following the meaningful engagement. Otherwise, you're going to get it wrong and you're going to cause a lot of harm. I want to talk about the response from the government. So Prime Minister Justin Trudeau was asked about his reaction to the report by NDP leader Jagmeet Singh on the day it came out. We're continuing to step up on measures to counter homelessness, which is something that far too many Canadians are experiencing during these difficult times. We'll keep being there for people.

Sean Fraser, the Minister of Housing, Infrastructure and Communities, discussed a report as well on the day it came out. So the Housing Advocates Report appropriately shines a light on the immense need that communities are facing and the people who are currently unhoused. And we are working now to develop an appropriate response to help cities deal with encampments and as importantly to find sustainable and durable housing solutions for the people who are living in them today. Have you heard from the government since you've released a report? Not yet but we did have some preliminary meetings last week so before the report was released I had a meeting with Minister Fraser as well as Minister Haddu.

Are you able to tell us what the minister said in those preliminary meetings? Well, it was a briefing and it was unfortunately very short just because, you know, everyone's running around all over the place. That being said, the Minister Haddu meeting was very positive. She has a whole lot of experience of working with people experiencing homelessness in Thunder Bay. And so she knew exactly what we're talking about. But it's not just, you know, the federal government, they can't do this on their own. We need other levels of government to be involved. And we need the Indigenous governments to be involved as well. If we're looking at the Housing Accelerator Fund that the federal government has put in place

through the National Housing Strategy, you know, it is working with the willing. It is, you know, putting strings attached. It is a promise of resources in order to get to the construction of housing. And then in the end, we need to ensure that the people who are feeling the housing crisis the most, that are hurting the most, that is what we prioritize moving forward. And that's what I'm going to hold governments accountable to. I just I want to ask a question about your six calls to action. How enforceable are they? Like, do we have any mechanisms to ensure that governments do act on them and are penalized if they don't? That's a really good question. Well, first of all, the federal government, the federal minister must respond to my report within 120 days.

That's in the National Housing Strategy Act. That's the requirement. I know that a lot of advocacy groups are looking or were waiting for this report in order to use it as a tool in courts. So it is about dialogue. It is we can't sue governments. But you know, suing governments takes up millions of dollars and decades. Just very lastly, Marie-José, ultimately, you've been thinking about this for a long time. I guess, what did the presence of encampments represent to you? It represents that people are making a very, very difficult choice because they have nothing else. And that it is a question of life and death. And it is so prevalent in Canada. It's

shocking to me. I grew up in Edmonton, where the winters are brutally cold. I'd never seen encampments growing up in Edmonton. This is something that we're seeing across the country. Like I said, it's not an urban issue. It is an across Canada issue. And it is a physical manifestation of exactly how broken our housing and homelessness systems are. And it needs immediate action. Marisha, I'll say thank you so much for taking the time to be here today.

Thanks for having me. That's it for today. I'm Maina Karaman-Wilms. Our producers are Madeline White, Cheryl Sutherland, and Rachel Levy-McLaughlin. David Crosby edits the show. Adrian Chung is our senior producer,

and Angela Pachenza is our executive editor. Thanks so much for listening, and I'll talk to you tomorrow.