The Decibel - The Prime Minister’s rat-infested residence

Episode Date: April 14, 2023

Since 1951, 24 Sussex Drive has been the Prime Minister’s official residence. Recently, It’s been making international headlines, but for the wrong reasons. The mansion is in such bad shape that rodent carcasses line the walls and are affecting the air quality. There’s a laundry list of problems including mould, asbestos, leaks and a cold winter draft. In the eight years Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has been in power, he and his family have never moved in.The Globe’s writer-at-large and political columnist, John Ibbitson is on The Decibel to tell us how the Prime Minister’s residence has fallen into such disrepair and why its fate has become as politically toxic as its insides.Questions? Comments? Ideas? Email us at [e-mail]

The rooms on the main floor were gracious, sort of Victorian Edwardian furnishings, drapes, carpets, that sort of thing. John Ibbotson is a writer-at-large at The Globe and a longtime political columnist. It's an elegant 19th century mansion built by a lumber baron, the sort of place that lumber barons like to live in. A lovely, though impractical dining room. Sort of a movie set of what you would expect the house of a head of government of a mid-sized democracy to look like. He's describing his last visit to 24 Sussex Drive in Ottawa. And the grounds were lovely. Stephen Harper was the last prime minister to host garden parties for the press. I think that was the last time I was at 24 was for one of Stephen

Harper's garden parties, not long before I think that was the last time I was at 24, was for one of Stephen Harper's garden parties, not long before Justin Trudeau replaced him. It's the official residence of the prime minister. But Prime Minister Trudeau doesn't live there, and never has since he's been in office. The dining room was too small for state functions. The basement was where one of the kitchens was located, and food was always cold by the time it got to the table.

There was no central air conditioning, so you had these little air conditioners stuck in all the windows. And it was drafty and it was steadily deteriorating in quality and needed serious repair. Right now it needs really serious repair. The place is a mess, and that's putting it lightly. It needs repairs and upgrades that will now cost at least $36 million. But no politician seems to want to fix it. Today, we'll talk to John about what to do with the asbestos-filled, rodent-infested 24 Sussex Drive. I'm Mainika Raman-Wilms, and this is The Decibel from The Globe and Mail. John, thanks so much for joining me again.

My pleasure. 24 Sussex Drive in Ottawa is the prime minister's designated residence, but Justin Trudeau and his family have not lived there at all, even though Trudeau's been prime minister since he was elected in 2015. So, John, what is wrong with this house? We're hearing about issues with rat carcasses now. What's happening here? It's not a question of what's wrong with this house. It's a question of what's wrong with this country. Serious countries have a residence for their head of government. 10 Downing Street,

the LXA Palace, the White House, all the G7, all the major developed countries have residences for the head of government as well as for the head of state. And we have had since 1951, 24 Sussex Drive, a perfectly reasonable place to put a prime minister. But since the 1990s, the National Capital Commission, which runs the building, has been saying that it needs an upgrade. And, well, it's falling apart. So Justin Trudeau, who grew up in the place, refused to move in, citing safety concerns, and moved into the much smaller Rideau Cottage on the grounds of Government House. But he did not mandate that since he was not living there, there should be a full restoration of the building. In fact, instead, it just sat there and quietly deteriorated. It's a fire risk. The electrical systems are a menace. There's mold. There's asbestos. They had a rat control problem, which they fixed. But as a

result, there are now dead rodents lining the walls inside the building. There's an air quality issue as well. And the question is, do we keep the building now or do we just tear it down and replace it with something else? Right. And we're going to talk about these issues, like the options of what we can actually do with it now. But I just want to focus on the building itself first, John, so people can kind of understand really what we're talking about here. Because we've now established that this place is a mess, but it also just hasn't been renovated or updated in a really long time. So I want to look at some interior photos from the recent past when prime ministers actually did live at 24 Sussex. And I actually thought we could have a little fun with this, John, and you could do a little role playing

and maybe pretend you're on TV like, you know, an HGTV contractor or interior designer and just get your take on this house, John. So if you can just take a look at this first image we'll pull up here. This is from 2003 when Jean Quetient was prime minister. So can you just describe what we're looking at here? Yeah, so the first photo is a typical first minister's meeting. The prime minister and the premiers all gathered in one of the sitting rooms. And the first impression that you get when you look at it is, boy, is it ever crowded. That is not a room that is comfortably handling all of the first ministers. You would expect that there would be one room in the House of the head of government that could easily and comfortably accommodate that many people.

But it's pretty crowded. Yeah, I can see like three big guys like squished on a little couch there. the House of the head of government that could easily and comfortably accommodate that many people. But it's pretty crowded. Yeah, I can see like three big guys like squished on a little couch there. It looks quite cramped. It really is. And if you had aides and stuff there as well, it would be quite impossible. Pleasantly furnished if you like that sort of thing. And I do.

And when you say pleasantly furnished, John, I mean, there's very flowery drapes in the room. We're also seeing a green carpeted floor, white couches and yellow walls. But not a place where people can easily and comfortably gather and talk about the nation's business. So let's look at this next picture, John. This is Lorene Harper, Stephen Harper's wife, giving an interview from 24 Sussex in 2013. So John, can you just describe this room that she's sitting in? Yeah. Sofa looks perfectly comfortable, but the walls are strangely gray. The walls do look kind of strange. This is what stands out to me too,

because they're kind of like a brick, almost like you would see on an outside of a house. It doesn't look like an interior wall for a living room to me. Is that a good look or a bad look? I wouldn't know. If you're asking for interior design, you got the wrong guy. But I do know that when Stephen and Lorraine Harper were set to move into 24 Sussex, the National Capital Commission, which oversees the building, asked them if they could delay moving in because they really needed to do some restoration and repair. And the Harpers refused, new conservative government and all, didn't want to be seen asking the taxpayers

to spend lavish amounts of money in order to fix up their house. So Stephen Harper said, I'll just deal with the drafty windows. And they did for about a decade, but that again only contributed to the further decline of the residents. So that by the time Justin Trudeau

became prime minister, it was becoming quite unlivable. Let's go to the next picture here. This is a shot of the dining room. This is like even the color scheme here is kind of eye-popping here. John, can you just tell us what we're looking at in this picture? I don't know. It's pleasantly green, I suppose.

It's like a minty kind of green almost. It's very loud. Yeah, but what do I know from paint colors? The interesting thing about this room is the dining room table. If you look at it, there were four, two children and Mr. and Mrs. Harper, and that's the kind of a dining table that could end a marriage, you know, trying to put four people around it. It's just too big. But I'm also told that it was too small for things like first ministers' meetings and big events that a prime minister would be hosting. So it was awkwardly sized. Again, in a proper residence, you might want a larger dining room for formal state events and then a smaller intimate dining room for the family to use. Yeah, this one looks like it can seat, I don't know, maybe 10 or 12 people.

So it's kind of in that strange middle space. It's just the wrong size. And the curtains, I just have to comment on those drapes too. Those are quite, they look quite heavy. And again, from something from a few decades ago. I guess so. All right. Lastly here, John, what are we seeing in this final picture?

Oh, this is the famous swimming pool. So when Pierre Trudeau became prime minister, he was very fit and he wanted a place to work out. So he arranged for the building of this swimming pool. And again, there were complaints that we were wasting the taxpayers' money so that Pierre Trudeau could go swimming. And it may well be that the swimming pool was the origin of all the problems because it became synonymous with the lavish expenditure of taxpayers' funds on a head of government's residence, and you didn't want to be a prime minister who was known for that. So when John Kretschner became prime minister,

he made a point of not spending the kind of money that the National Capital Commission said needed to be spent, and things just started to go downhill from there. I would say that Stephen Harper and Justin Trudeau, between them, bear most of the responsibility. Stephen Harper should have taken the National Capital Commission's recommendations and stayed out of 24 Sussex until they could renovate it and restore it. But instead, he moved in and then didn't allow them to do any serious work. And when Justin Trudeau decided not

to move in, a sensible decision, he should then have authorized the necessary work. He could have declared that as long as I am prime minister, I will never move into 24 Sussex Drive. My successor will inherit it, not me. But he didn't do that either. I guess he just didn't want the political flack. But now we have a building that is so embarrassing, the international media are writing stories about all the dead rats in the walls and the fact that the place is uninhabitable. We'll be back in a minute. Okay, so let's address the big question then, John. Why hasn't the house been fixed? It's a good question. And the question that you might ask yourself back is,

why does this country not take pride in its symbols? It does take pride, of course, in some symbols, the restoration, for example, of the Vimy Memorial in France. But in Ottawa, it's hard to get Canadian taxpayers to agree to spend money. In Quebec, a lot of people consider Quebec City, you know, the true national capital of Quebec. So there's a resistance there on spending money in Ottawa. Western alienation means that Ottawa is almost a dirty word at times.

So while the British don't begrudge the money needed to keep up 10 Downing Street, and the Americans don't begrudge the money needed to keep up the White House, for some reason, Canadians are thought, at least, to begrudge spending the money needed to keep up the residence of the prime minister. And as a result, we have this international embarrassment. Okay, so the reasoning, I guess just let's dig a little bit into the reasoning for prime ministers not to authorize these repairs. Is it kind of the fear that this is going to be used as a political tool against them then? Yeah, absolutely.

Pierre Trudeau built that lavish swimming pool. And for some people who thought that he was arrogant and didn't think about the needs of ordinary Canadians, 50%, oppose renovating 24 Sussex at this estimated cost of $36 to $38 million. So basically people saying, you know, this is really expensive at this point. And I guess I'm wondering what it is about Canada where we're thinking like that. Because as you mentioned, you know, places like Britain and the U.S., they keep up a place of residence for their leaders, you know, have a bit of a posh place, and that's seen as a nice thing to have for their leaders. Why is it an issue here? It's a really good question. The British do not have a federation.

They have a central government that is located in London, which is their first city. It seems natural to make sure that the institutions of that government, Westminster, Buckingham Palace, 10 Downing Street, are kept in shape, although the British do have their own issue with Westminster. The Americans have always been, right from the very beginning, an imperial people, and Washington was their Rome, their imperial center. So they have always spent, even before they were a great power, a lot of time and attention on Washington, D.C., on making it look like the head of a great republic. We are a federal country, which means that the governments that are closest to most of us are the provincial capitals, whether it's Toronto or Regina. And that's where you look to for schools, hospitals, roads, and the like. That makes Ottawa distant and disconnected.

And we're also a country of regions where Maritimers, Atlantic Canadians, look to their region as their cultural center, where Quebec sees itself in many ways, not only as a distinct people, but almost as a self-governing entity within Canada. Western alienation is famous. Westerners see Ottawa almost as an epithet, the place where all of their resentments are focused. Ontario is loyal, but Ontario is not the country. So it's hard to get the country moving in the same direction towards the same goal. You can do it at Olympics, but you can't do it most of the rest of the time. And you can't do it when the question is, how do we keep the national capital up and running?

Interesting. So I guess, does this say something about the way that federalism works in Canada or the way that federal politics work in this country. When you're trying to do something at the federal level, it's harder to do. I've been noticing this for a very long time, that Ottawa doesn't do much for you in your life, right? Ottawa takes your income taxes and then gives the money to the provinces to spend on schools and hospitals

and roads and sewers and the like. If you're unemployed, the federal government will give you unemployment insurance. But if you're not unemployed and if you don't work in the military and you're not a First Nation living on a reserve, you don't have much direct connection with the federal government. And speaking of the military and First Nations, when the federal government does have a responsibility for procurement or for delivering services, it does a terrible job. Look at the state of many First Nations reserves. Look at the decades it takes for us to buy a helicopter or a jet aircraft.

So it makes it difficult for the average Canadian, I think, to feel a sense of connection to the federal government, Unless there's a crisis, unless we're at war, or unless there's a major pandemic in which we are all now suddenly dependent on the decisions made by Ottawa, it's just kind of a piece of software running in the background that we don't pay much attention to. Okay. And so as a result, we have no connection to this building, 24 Sussex. That's right. When somebody says, hey, that software that's running quietly in the background needs a major upgrade and we need to spend on that software, you go, well, I don't know, as long as it's working, I don't see any need to do any updates now on it.

Was 24 Sussex built with the intention of being the official residence of the Prime Minister of Canada? No, it was built by a lumber baron between 1866 and 1868. So it was built at the time Canada was born. But after the Second World War, there was a feeling that Ottawa hadn't been given enough attention as a national capital. And so they created the National Capital Commission. They began the process of the beautification of the national capital.

They created the green belt that surrounds the national capital. And somebody said, we need a place for a prime minister to live. Mackenzie King had lived in Laurier House, which was literally Wilfrid Laurier's house, throughout his years as prime minister. But the feeling was there should be a permanent residence for the PM. And they settled on 24 Sussex Drive as the place for it. By the way, and unlike other countries, they also settled on Stornoway as the residence for the leader of the official opposition. No one complains when we spend money on fixing the drapes at Stornoway. And one of the ironies of Canadian politics is that it has long been understood that Stornoway

is a much nicer place to live than 24 Sussex Drive. So you may be acquiring power when you move from opposition leader to prime minister, but you're downgrading in terms of your house. Wow. Okay. So in 2021, the National Capital Commission, this is the crown corporation that we talked about before, which manages 24 Sussex and a number of other government sites in Ottawa. The NCC said it would cost $36.6 million to renovate this building. Why is the price tag so high, John? Like what naturally needs to be fixed here? I'm told that much of the money would go to security. If, for example, they decided to

restore 24 Sussex, so rip out the wiring, take it down to the studs, put in central air, put in proper plumbing, get the kitchen fixed, maybe put an addition on for a proper dining room, for proper meeting rooms. That's not going to cost $36 million. It's going to cost, but it's not going to cost $36 million. Much of it would be, though, for hardening the property, for making it invulnerable to terrorist attack, for making it invulnerable to cyber attack, for eavesdropping. I'm also told that most of that would be underground. So if you did spend $36 million, and of course we know by now it's probably much more than that, much of what you spent the money on you would never see because it would be subterranean and it would be designed to provide

a safe and secure residence for the PM. But there's so much stuff you would have to do if you wanted to keep the building that a lot of people think a good idea might be just to provide a safe and secure residence for the PM. But there's so much stuff you would have to do if you wanted to keep the building that a lot of people think a good idea might be just to tear it down and start again. Well, Trudeau and his family, of course, have been living at Rideau Cottage. So, I mean, why not just tear down 24 Sussex and use Rideau Cottage as the primary residence? Would that work? Not in the long term, because Rideau Cottage is even smaller than 24 Sussex. But one option that's been put forward is build a prime minister's residence on the grounds of Government House. The grounds are huge. So not only do you have Rideau Hall and Rideau Cottage, but there's space there if you wanted to build a full prime minister residence.

Interesting. Okay, so that's kind of a bunch of options there. Is there an argument not to renovate and just let the building, I guess, fall apart? There's no option to just let it fall apart. There's an option to tear it down and build something else. 24 Sussex is not just an address. It's an icon. It's what we mean when we say the prime minister.

You're going to 24 Sussex Drive. You're going to the White House. You're going to the Elysee Palace. You're going to 10 Downing Street. So if you want to keep the symbolism of the address, then're going to the White House, you're going to the Elysee Palace, you're going to 10 Downing Street. So if you want to keep the symbolism of the address, then you have to make a decision. Either spend what needs

to be spent, about $40 million or more probably by now, on restoring the building or tear it down, hold an architectural competition. Canada has some of the world's finest architects

and see if we can't build a Prime Minister's residence that Canadians would find exciting. Is there a cost to not doing anything with 24 Sussex? Like does the government or taxpayers pay for, I don't know, security around the building now, keeping the lights on, like even if it's empty, are we still paying for it? Oh yeah, there's a cost of just having police there to guard it. Also, there are abatement procedures underway. They are starting to remove the asbestos and the mold, the dead rats.

And those are things you would do anyway, even if you're preparing to tear it down. That's why I think we need to make a decision. However much I might grumble about those fools in Ottawa, it is the place that we look to for our national government. It is a place that we should take pride in for the same reason that we should take pride in our country. One of the world's most diverse and liberal and tolerant democracies deserves a national capital that reflects that liberal and tolerant and diverse democracy, and that includes a residence for its head of government. Lastly here, John, from everything you've seen here, do you think this place will actually get fixed and will resolve this?

I am hopeful that we are reaching a point that politicians on both sides of the aisle will say, let's take this out of our hands. Let's give this to a group of eminent Canadians who we all agree should be on that panel. And let's have that panel decide the future of the House and let us all agree to implement the recommendations of that panel. Would Pierre Polyev and Jagmeet Singh, as the leaders of the other national parties, agree to that? Well, things are a bit fraught right now in Ottawa. I don't know if they would. John, thank you so much for taking the time to speak with me here. Hey, my pleasure. That's it for today.

I'm Maina Karaman-Wilms. Our producers are Madeline White, Cheryl Sutherland, and Rachel Levy-McLaughlin. David Crosby edits the show. Adrian Chung is our senior producer, and Angela Pachenza is our executive editor. Thanks so much for listening, and I'll talk to you next week.