The Decibel - What you need to know about U.S. travel as detentions rise

Episode Date: April 2, 2025

Since U.S. President Donald Trump took office in January, immigration lawyers have reported seeing a rise in non-U.S. citizens being denied entry. At the beginning of March, Jasmine Mooney, a Canadian who had previously been able to obtain a U.S. work visa, was detained for nearly two weeks when she tried to renew her visa. European tourists have been detained at the border, and Canadians born in Iran and Afghanistan have been increasingly turned away at the border.The Globe’s Vanmala Subramaniam spoke to immigration lawyers about what Canadians living and working in the U.S. should do, given the situation at the border. Today, she’s on the show to talk about why we’re seeing this increase in Canadians being denied entry or detained at the U.S. border, and what people travelling to the U.S. can do to protect themselves.Questions? Comments? Ideas? Email us at [e-mail]

So Jasmine Mooney is a Canadian woman residing between sort of Vancouver and Los Angeles. She's been traveling between Canada and the U.S. on a work visa specific to NAFTA countries called a TN visa. That's the globe's Vanmala Subramaniam. On March 3rd, she goes to the U.S.-Mexico border crossing at San Diego and Tijuana, Mexico, and she applies to renew her TN visa. She takes a really long time to see an officer. She's waiting around, she's shuffled between immigration offices,

and then all of a sudden she's hauled off into a detention center in San Diego. Her phone is taken from her, and then she's eventually moved to another detention centre in Arizona, and is there for about two weeks. This entire time, she's very unclear on what exactly she did wrong. The barter officials insinuated that her documentation was not proper.

She didn't have something that her employer was supposed to provide her with. After nearly two weeks, she was released from detention. ICE agents, so that's Immigration and Customs Enforcement, they told her lawyer that she was detained because she didn't want to pay for a flight home, which she says is not true. So, you know, Jasmine Mooney tries to do something she's

always been doing for years, which is get her visa renewed, her work visa renewed. And this time she's detained and held in a detention center in the U.S. for two weeks. It's not just Jasmine Mooney. More people have been having issues crossing the U.S. border since President Trump took office. Sometimes that means delays and secondary screenings, having your phone searched,

or in some cases, its refusals and detentions. This is all happening as the Trump administration is also cracking down on free speech and arresting protesters, even those who were legally in the country. Vanmala spoke to immigration lawyers who've been hearing from people having problems at the border. Today, she's here to talk about why this is happening and how to protect yourself if you're going to the U.S. I'm Maynika Raman-Welms and this is The Decibel from The Globe and Mail. I'm Maynika Raman-Welms and this is The Decibel from The Globe and Mail. Vamila, thank you so much for being here. Thanks for having me, Maynika.

So Vamila, we just heard the story of Jasmine Mooney off the top and frankly I think that's a pretty scary story for a lot of people to hear about that experience. How common is it these days for visitors or just non-U.S. citizens to be detained at the U.S. border? Yeah, so the story of Jasmine Mooney is, I think, has been a bit of a wake-up call for Canadians who usually take for granted that they can cross the border with minimal issues. The thing we don't know yet is we don't know how common it is for Canadians to be detained at the US border because we don't have that data yet. But I think the important thing here is what we're hearing from immigration lawyers, many of whom work at border crossings on the northern border and the southern border, about what's happening right now.

And what's happening right now is that they're getting more calls from clients who have either been detained, held up at secondary screening, you know, being asked more questions by border officials or are concerned that crossing the border right now will result in detention. And I just want to be clear here that we're not talking about people who are on no-fly lists, people who are, you know, wanted by the FBI, people who have significant criminal records that deem them inadmissible to the US. We're talking about people who are used to traveling back and forth, either mostly for work purposes,

business travelers, or even tourists going back and forth. There are more cases arising anecdotally of detentions happening. So not just people being turned away at the border, but actually being arrested and then detained at one of Immigration and Customs Enforcement's detention centers. So this is a really important point,

that we're seeing more detentions than we usually would. Are we hearing other examples of this actually happening to other people then, not just to Jasmine Mooney, but to other individuals as well? So Jasmine Mooney's case is not a one off case. There was another story of a German tourist, his name is Lucas. He was traveling back from Mexico on holiday to the US with his partner, an American citizen. Now, when he got to the San Diego border crossing

between US and Mexico, the border officials told him that he had overstayed his 90-day tourist visa. And in that case, usual protocol would be to put him on a plane back to Germany and send him home, deem him inadmissible to the US. But what happened here is he was actually detained for 16 days. And you know, he recounts his experience saying that he was extremely traumatized by it. He was trip searched, his phone was taken from him. And while he was in detention, it was unclear to

him how long he was going to be detained for. And the reason for his detention is still unclear. So there are a lot of things that you know happened to him that don't usually happen. Well I guess the big question is why is this happening now Vanmala? Like what are the legal changes that have happened in the US that make it easier for border agents to detain people that they wouldn't have previously actually detained? So there are a couple of big overarching changes that have come into place around immigration issues when Donald Trump took office as

US president. The main thing was an executive order he put out called securing our borders. I just want to be clear here that it it's a very vague executive order in the sense that it is sort of an overarching guide of sorts or decree that gives power to ICE agents and Border Patrol agents to detain people either in the US, non-US citizens obviously, who are suspected of breaking the law or to prevent people from crossing the border, all to make the border more secure and free of what he says, you know, fentanyl and terrorism going in and out of the US border. So that's one of the executive orders.

There was also another executive order called Protecting the American People Against Invasion, which was along similar lines. A very anti-immigrant, harsh rhetoric about not wanting non-U.S. citizens in the country. These executive orders, what immigration lawyers tell me is that they essentially create an atmosphere that is very restrictive to immigrants, even visitors and tourists. And there are also very high profile cases of detentions and deportations now that we know of that lawyers see a part of a more aggressive enforcement pattern at the border since the start of Trump's second presidency. In fact, the American Civil Liberties Union has been very

public and is warning non-U.S. citizens about the fact that this atmosphere is changing and immigration agents, water patrol agents, are getting more emboldened to arbitrarily make decisions about crossing the border. Yeah, I imagine that's pretty alarming for certain people who do want to cross that border. Do we know who is most at risk for this kind of heightened scrutiny while they're crossing into the US? What I'm finding from my reporting is there appears to be a targeting of non-US citizens

who are very supportive of the Palestinian cause or who have been very public about the disdain for the Trump administration, and Canadian citizens who are born in countries listed on Trump's potential travel ban. So the Trump administration is mulling a travel ban of people from 41 countries, including countries like Iran, Afghanistan, Somalia, Pakistan, and Canadian citizens who hail from these countries might

face intense questioning at the border. Many of the people that have been targeted so far have been student activists, have been protesters who are involved in demonstrations against the war in Gaza. Immigration lawyers are saying, and I think, you know, it's quite valid, that these people are now at risk of being deported or detained and then deported. I mean, this is pretty astonishing that, like, it sounds like it's coming down to, you know, free speech things that someone says is actually getting them targeted at the border then. Yeah, I think a lot of free speech advocates and and certainly, you know, the American Civil Liberties Union has been extremely concerned about the way in which firstly, green card holders are having their green cards revoked.

These are strange times that we're living in, in the sense that when you get to become a green card holder in the States, you're almost like a citizen in the sense that you no longer have to keep applying for a visa. You sort of can build your life around the idea that you have permanent residency there. We have many, many Canadians who have become green card holders in the US. What's happening right now is that we saw a case of Mahmoud Khalil. He was a student activist in Columbia University.

He was detained by ICE officials and had his green card revoked for allegedly being a terrorist supporter because of his involvement in the pro-Palestine demonstrations. The Trump administration says that he is pro-Hamas, and he says, no, he's just a political activist. But the point in which it becomes a free speech issue

is that there is a trend now that if you're speaking out about things that the administration in power disagrees with, you might be penalized in a very massive way for it. And free speech is sort of the beacon of American democracy. It's something that they've prided themselves on, you know, forever since their founding. It's also something, a reason many people from the East who have grown up in very repressive authoritarian regimes move to the West for. They move for

free speech. They move for the ability to speak up for things that they disagree with. And I think there's deep concern amongst lawyers, constitutional lawyers, free speech advocates that this is being infringed on right now. Free speech is being infringed on. Let me ask you a little bit more about legally what is going on here. When you mentioned Mahmoud Khalil and him having his green card revoked, how are they legally able to do that? Yeah, so Mahmoud Khalil's green card was revoked based on a very rare provision of immigration

law. It's a doctrine that sort of revolves around this idea of foreign policy consequences if someone's free speech causes harm to national security. So this language is part of the 1952 Immigration and Nationality Act. And that's like a big body of immigration law that originated during the height of McCarthyism in the U.S. where the U.S. government had used it to deport people whom they considered were communists. And they are revisiting this doctrine,

they are bringing it up again, and they're using it now against Mahmoud Khalil and against people who are speaking out on certain causes that the Trump administration completely disagrees with. We'll be back in a moment. So Vanmala, people are still going to the States. What did you hear from lawyers about how people traveling to the U.S. should prepare to cross that border?

What's very important when you cross the border right now, according to many lawyers I've spoken to, is to be prepared with all the right documentation in the event that you're questioned in much detail about your reasons for going to the US. So for example, if you're going to the border to renew a TN visa like Jasmine Mooney was, make sure that none of your documents have any errors on them. Make sure that you have everything in place. If you are crossing the border and you are someone who is active on social media, says

things very openly that are political statements that you know the Trump administration might not agree with. Some lawyers are advising people to wipe their phones clean, carry burner phones. Wow. The more apolitical you are when you cross the border, the better for you in this current environment

that we're in. So it sounds like border agents can search your phone. That is that is a legal thing for them to do then. Yes, border agents have always been able to ask anyone traveling into the U.S. for the electronic devices. They can search your laptop, they can search your tablet devices, they can search your phone. They can ask you to pull up your emails.

They can ask you to show them your Instagram page. All of these things are legal and they do do it. I think the situation that we're in right now is that they're doing it more often than they used to. They are also acting on information they find in your social media in a way that perhaps they did not in the past, where they would just look at it, let you through, acknowledge it, and you know, that's that.

But one thing to remember, Menaka, is that we still don't have very good data on exactly how many electronic devices are being searched at the border. I'll give you a sense of what happened in the past. In the Biden administration, we have data on that. So in 2023 and 2024, only about 1% of people crossing into the US, and this is not just from Canada, it's from everywhere else, had their phones searched. So it's a very small percentage of people who have the phone search. It does happen, but it's small. The thing to remember is that it can happen, and it's legal for it to happen, and you cannot say to a border official,

no, I'm not giving you your phone because they have the legal authority to ask you for it. And is there any difference if you cross, you know, via land border or an air border? Like, should you consider the way that you cross the border? There appears to be no difference yet if you cross the border? There appears to be no difference yet if you cross the border by land or air, simply because there is no data that can tell you if one is better or if one is worse. The thing that we do know and that immigration lawyers

are advising Canadians to do is to try and cross the border on Canadian soil. So for example, at an airport like Toronto's Pearson Airport, there is a pre-clearance section where you get to go through customs and immigration before you board the plane. So in that case, you sort of eliminate your potential of getting detained because you are on Canadian soil when you're technically getting admission into the U.S. And I think we should point out, of course, you know, being held up at the US border isn't actually a new thing for a lot of people, right? Certain demographics, certain people

know that this is actually going to be a challenge for them. I guess I wonder, Vamil, how is what is happening now different than that? Just to be clear, there are many people who have always had issues crossing the border, not because of, you know, criminal records or things that deem you inadmissible, but simply because in a post-9-11 world, there was a lot of scrutiny on Muslims, people from South Asia, people from the Middle East, especially if you're visibly brown, you're wearing a turban, you're wearing a hijab. And in many cases, a certain demographic of people are held up in secondary screening and asked additional questions about the intentions

of being in the US more than others. The US border has never been a straightforward and easy place to get across because they have a mentality in the US of protecting their borders and you know they take their rules very seriously. It is not a country that is extremely friendly towards refugees or asylum seekers and that's the sort of overarching landscape of crossing into the US. I think Canadians have always had more of an advantage crossing the border because of

our close ties to the US. But this has changed a lot lately, also because of the stance the Trump administration has taken towards Canada, you know, threatening to annex Canada, the trade war that the Trump administration has unleashed on Canada and much of the rest of the world. So geopolitically, things are changing between Canada and the US as allies. And some immigration lawyers believe that that's bleeding into the way border officials act at the border, simply that they feel more emboldened to ask you more questions and perhaps deny you entry into the US. We've been talking a lot about people traveling into the US. There are of course, a lot of Canadians living and working in the US as

well. So Vamala, what are you hearing from immigration lawyers about what they should consider when they're maybe going back and forth in and out of the country? consider when they're maybe going back and forth in and out of the country? There are about 800,000 Canadians working in the US. They hold work visas. Immigration law firms, actually a very prominent one in New York, Dyer-Harris, they have advised Canadians who are US visa holders who work in the US to actually not travel altogether because they're saying that for any chance, even if there's a 1% risk that you might not be able to re-enter the country because you're not a US citizen, that might mean your entire livelihood is gone.

You can't go back to your job. You're planted there. You pay rent. That's your life. And so the advisory right now, and I've seen this from a couple of law firms dealing a lot with business travelers and people on regular sort of work visas in the US, telling their clients to simply not travel so they don't have to cross back into the US, unless it's really an emergency and you need to do that. And this is a big advisory, just to be clear, because of the number of Canadians who work in the US and are so used to just coming back for things like Easter, visiting family, getting that advisory from your lawyer is a big deal.

It is something that makes you rethink, you know, whether or not you want to remain in that country, how you are going to proceed with your travel plans for the next one year, or, you want to remain in that country, how you are going to proceed with your travel plans for the next one year, or even for the next four years during the Trump administration. Yeah, I imagine, as you say, getting that kind of advice from your lawyer must be quite unnerving. I wonder about broader advice that we are hearing

from the government, Vanmala. Is the Canadian government providing any guidance here? What is the current advice for traveling in the U.S.? So there was a rule change recently, about two months ago, by the Trump administration. They required that Canadians staying in the U.S. for more than 30 days now fill in a form declaring that they're going to stay in the U. the US for more than 30 days. That has never been the case. The government has put out an advisory related to that form, reminding Canadians to fill in that form. Other than that, there hasn't been a travel advisory warning Canadian citizens about the risk of traveling to the US. However, there are legal experts

who are advising the Canadian government that they should issue an advisory. They should be warning citizens and residents that they risk being denied entry or having their visas revoked or even being detained or deported if they travel to the U.S. Do we know if these changes at the border

are they actually affecting people's choices to travel to the U.S. these days at the border, are they actually affecting people's choices to travel to the US these days? Yes, they are. And aviation analytics company, OHE, found that travel bookings from Canada to the US are down by 70% compared to this time last year. And Air Canada has also said that their bookings are down by about 10%. Land travel has dropped dramatically. In February, we saw 500,000 fewer people crossing the border. AMT – And I imagine some of that might come down to the trade war and the Canadian sentiment here, but it sounds like the factor of the border is definitely a consideration as well. KB – Absolutely. It is one of the biggest reasons why people are cancelling trips. AMT – And if you have been refused entry to the US, is there anything you can do about it?

If you have been given a ban from entering the US, there is a process that you can go through to get admission to the US again. It's called applying for a US entry waiver. You obviously have to hire an immigration lawyer. You have to write a letter advocating for why you deserve entry into the US, like what your intentions are for working or staying in the US. And that goes through, you know, the system, it goes to US authorities, and then they sort of deem whether you are a security or immigration risk before they grant you that waiver.

Just lastly here, Vanmala, I think, you know, a lot of people might be pretty anxious when they hear what is going on at the US border. And I guess I wonder from the experts that you've talked to, how worried should people actually be about crossing into the US these days? I think people should be more cautious and not take it for granted that they will get admission into the US right now. And there are hundreds of thousands of people who cross the border every day. The thing is that if you have ever in the past had, say, a small felony, something that at that point deemed you inadmissible to the US and then you regained entry,

or if you've had some issues in obtaining a US work visa and that's on your record, like little blemishes like that, you have to be even more careful right now. I think those are the people whom border control is really looking at because they tend to re-litigate these issues at the border and make a determination again about whether you can enter the US. Ramila, thank you so much for taking the time to be here. Thank you so much, Maynika. That's it for today.

I'm Maynika Ramon-Wilms. Our associate producer is Aja Souter. Our producers are Madeleine White, Michal Stein, and Ali Graham. David Crosby edits the show. Adrian Chung is our senior producer, and Matt Frainer is our managing editor. Thanks so much for listening, and I'll talk to you tomorrow.