The Deck - Dana Chisholm (Jack of Diamonds, Washington, D.C.)

Episode Date: July 24, 2024

Our card this week is Dana Chisholm, the Jack of Diamonds from Washington, D.C.I’ve been telling victims’ stories for 6½ years now. I’ve been a consumer of them for even longer. And in all that time, few stories have haunted me the way Dana’s has. Her killer was bold, so confident police would never catch him, that he taunted them. And for nearly 30 years, he’s been able to get away with it. But I think that’s coming to an end. Because even though it seems like he tried to do everything he could to erase himself from Dana’s apartment and her life, it looks like he didn’t cover all his tracks. He may have just left something behind that could finally give him away.If you have any information about the murder of Dana Chisholm in February of 1995 in Washington, D.C., please contact the Metropolitan Police Department at 202-727-9099, or remain anonymous by texting your tip to MPD’s Text Tip Line at 50411. There is a $25,000 reward for any information leading to an arrest and conviction in the homicide of Dana Chisholm. Dana’s case is one we wanted you to see with your own eyes. So for the first time ever….. we’re inviting you to watch this episode with us as a VIDEO! Head over to our Crime Junkie YouTube channel to see Dana Chisholm’s case unfold.View source material and photos for this episode at: thedeckpodcast.com/dana-chisholm TruthFinder is a presenting sponsor of The Deck | TruthFinder.com Let us deal you in… follow The Deck on social media.Instagram: @thedeckpodcast | @audiochuckTwitter: @thedeckpodcast_ | @audiochuckFacebook: /TheDeckPodcast | /audiochuckllcTo support Season of Justice and learn more, please visit seasonofjustice.org. The Deck is hosted by Ashley Flowers. Instagram: @ashleyflowersTikTok: @ashleyflowerscrimejunkieTwitter: @Ash_FlowersFacebook: /AshleyFlowers.AF Text Ashley at 317-733-7485 to talk all things true crime, get behind the scenes updates, and more!

Our card this week is Dana Chisholm, the Jack of Diamonds from Washington, D.C. I've been telling victim stories for six and a half years now. I've been a consumer of them for even longer. In all that time, few stories have haunted me the way that Dana's has. Her killer was bold, so confident police would never catch him that he taunted them. And for nearly 30 years, he's been able to get away with it. But I think that's coming to an end. Because even though it seems like he tried to do everything he could to erase himself

from Dana's apartment and her life, it looks like he didn't cover all of his tracks. He may have just left something behind that could finally give him away. I'm Ashley Flowers, and this is The Deck. On Monday, February 27th, 1995, over 400 miles away from D.C. in Rock Hill, South Carolina, the landline at the Chisholm residence rang out in the middle of the night. It woke up Johnny and Joe Gary from a deep sleep. In his half-awake state, Johnny clocked the time, close to 1.30 a.m. And for where they lived in the South, everyone knew you didn't dare make a call past suppertime, unless, of course, it was an emergency.

Groggy and dazed, Joe Gary was the one to answer the phone, but the person on the other end spoke loud enough for Johnny to hear. And it was a man introducing himself as Detective Louis Douglas with the Metropolitan Police Department in Washington, D.C. And to their utter shock, the detective said that their 25-year-old daughter, Dana, was

in jail. The detective explained that they had this sting operation at the Omni Hotel there in D.C., and Dana was one of the women that they'd arrested that night for charges related to sex work. Now, that didn't sound like their daughter at all. I mean, Dana had an office job in the city. The only time she'd ever really been in trouble was with her parents right after high school.

I mean, she started hanging out with the wrong crowd. She got mixed up in drugs for a minute, but that was years in the past. And at no time had there ever been any arrests for sex work. But more than what this detective was saying, Johnny said that the way that this guy talked, his attitude, his energy, were just off. Here's retired detective Jim Trana.

He remembers the details of Dana's case well from his time reviewing cold cases at MPD. Mr. Chisholm talked about how he kind of felt that the phone call itself was odd because the person who was Identifying him himself as Douglas was seemed to be excited He was saying he was going to get a promotion The man on the other end of the phone carried on saying that Dana was going to be arranged She should be out at some point during the day and then he said something like don't worry. She's fine

Just call in the morning, it's late. And although the tone of the conversation was a bit bizarre, this guy did leave the Chisholm's phone number that they could call later to check in, which was the one thing that made this call seem more legit. So all they could do at that point was wait around, worrying about their daughter, until they hopefully heard from her later that day.

But when the wee hours of the morning turned into more reasonable business hours and there was still no word from Dana, Johnny decided to give that number a call. And I know what you're thinking, it was fake. That's what I expected, but it wasn't. The line rang and it was, in fact, MPD. But when Johnny asked for Detective Douglas, and then Detective Douglas got on the phone, his response instantly made Johnny's heart sink. Well, the real Detective Douglas was actually very puzzled

about what was going on. Of course, he didn't call the family. He said, I have no idea what you're talking about. A detective in the Second District wouldn't be one who would be doing a prostitution sting anyway. That would be a a prostitution sting anyway. That would be a part of another totally different unit. So he would not be somebody who would have participated in something like this.

It was all a lie. Now when he learned about the previous call, the real Detective Douglas asked where Dana worked, but Johnny was hesitant to say. I mean, if this was all some sick prank, then he didn't want to get his daughter into any trouble at the Hudson Institute, this political think tank where she was a secretary. Johnny recalled Detective Douglas saying something along the lines of, but don't you want to find your daughter? Which felt weird to Johnny because he didn't think

he'd used any language that implied he was necessarily looking for her, just that he was worried about Dana being detained. But desperate, Johnny ended up giving Douglas his daughter's work address anyway. Now, there was no missing persons report filed or case opened on Dana at the time, but Detective Douglas let Johnny know that he would look into it and call him back. He didn't know what was going on, so that's when he decided that he would just go by the house where she lived and check

on her, see what's happening. When he got there and there was no answer, that's when he left his card." Douglas never did call Johnny back to let him know that he didn't have any luck making contact with Dana. He might have just been waiting to hear something back from her, or may have even assumed this was all a bunch of nothing. I mean, after all, the house he went to was in a very nice neighborhood, the kind of neighborhood where it's easy to believe that bad things don't happen.

We spoke to retired MPD captain Michael Farish, and here's what he said. "'Argal Terrace' was more of upscale. They call that the Gold Coast. In fact, the address we were at, if you went through the backyard and hopped a big old fence, you were on an estate owned by the Rockefeller family. So I guess you're kind of getting the idea of what kind of neighborhood it was. What Captain Farish referred to there, the Gold Coast, is the designated name for an enclave in the northwest corner of D.C. for black professionals and intellectuals, according

to the New York Times. If you'd like to see a picture of the house that Dana lived in, actually we have something special, more than just a blog post for this episode. We actually did this episode as a video on Crime Junkie's YouTube channel, where for the first time ever, we're releasing this episode for you to watch.

So make sure to go to the Crime Junkie YouTube channel to see that. Anyways, Farish used to patrol that area, so he to go to the Crime Junkie YouTube channel to see that. Anyways, Farish used to patrol that area, so he can speak to the crime rates, or rather lack thereof. Now remember, this was 1995. Cell phones weren't at all common yet. So when Johnny never heard back from Detective Douglas, he decided that he would just call Dana's employer himself to try and find out what was going on.

Maybe this was all some huge misunderstanding, and she was at the office working as she should be on a Monday. But a call to her office just made Johnny more concerned. He recalled that her boss was rude, stating that Dana hadn't shown up for work that morning, and then he was quick to hang up on him. Now, it seems like Dana may have had a history of showing up late, even skipping every so often. So perhaps the response was just out of frustration. I don't know, but annoyed by this guy's apparent apathy,

Johnny ended up calling back, and this time he spoke to one of Dana's female coworkers, her friend who spoke respectfully. But she said the same thing. Nope, Dana hadn't shown up, and she never called in to tell anyone she'd be out that day. Though people at work seemed to be letting her absence slide, there was at least one person in D.C. who was worried enough about Dana to dig a little deeper, and that was

her landlord. She and her teenage son actually shared a home with Dana. They lived upstairs while Dana had the entire basement floor to herself with her own separate entrance. And the landlord was the one to find the business card that Detective Douglas left. Detective's cards don't just, like, show up every day, so figuring something was wrong, she called him and learned that no one had been able to get in touch with Dana. And this really bothered her, because Dana's car was right there in the driveway, so she

decided to do a little investigating of her own after she hung up. First, she went to check and see if Dana would open the basement door. Maybe she hadn't heard when Detective Douglas knocked earlier. But after getting no response, her landlord decided to enter the basement area using her own key. And that's when it became clear why no one had heard from Dana. Back in South Carolina, about 24 hours after they had received that odd call in the dead of the night, the Chisholm's phone startled them awake once again. This time it was dispatch asking them to go to their front door where two county deputies

were waiting for them. Johnny opened the door and one of them handed him a number for the D.C. police. When he called, that's when they were finally told the horrific news that their daughter The Chisholm's never went to D.C. They still haven't been to this day. It was just too much for them to bear. Instead, they had a family member who was already living in the area confirm their daughter's identity on their behalf. Not having to make the identification was a blessing because what police had found at the scene was disturbing. The Chisholm's were not the only ones who were killed.

They were also the only ones who were arrested. The Chisholm's were also the only ones who were arrested. area confirm their daughter's identity on their behalf. Not having to make the identification was a blessing because what police had found at the scene was disturbing. Dana was located in the hallway. She was nude and a cord had been wrapped around her neck and was sitting up against the bedroom door with the cord wrapped around the handle of the door with her arms crossed in front of her. Dana had been strangled with a piece of phone cord

that had been cut. Part of it was still laying on top of her bed and detectives also observed these ligature marks where her hands or wrists had been tied up at some point. Having viewed photographs of the scene, it seemed to be selectively ransacked. It wasn't like a lot of your typical burglary scenes that I used to work,

where they were just trying to find anything that they could. It's like this person knew what they were looking for and that they were going into specific areas. Police believe the killer did take something with them that day. But he also left something behind. An ominous message written on the calendar in the hallway. It referred to Dana in kind of a vulgar manner. But then it says something really interesting, which is, I'll be back in P.E. Then Sergeant Michael Farish responded to the crime scene that day that this all broke.

In his 30s at the time, working in the so-called murder capital, he'd seen a lot of terrible things. But this sexually explicit note, ending in, I'll be back, MPD, is permanently imprinted in his mind, as is the fear that he felt when reading that final line. Could that have meant I'll be back, in other words, there are more victims coming, foreboding warning that there were gonna be

more female victims? Is this the first one we've identified in perhaps a string of cases that we haven't had enough indications to say are linked? Or is this the first one of somebody who's a real wacko and goes, you know what, this is my first but not my last? The department was clearly dealing with a killer who liked to play games.

Not only had he left a pointed message for police, but the medical examiner had Dana's likely time of death at some time late on the evening of February 26th, meaning that she was probably deceased hours before her poor parents received that mysterious call from a fake Detective Douglas. Now, they know that the killer didn't make the call from Dana's house because they were eventually able to trace it to a payphone,

right by an area on Interstate 395, where you could hop on to go to Virginia or Maryland. But they do think that this killer probably stuck around her apartment after she was dead. Dana's landlord remembered hearing someone taking a long shower at some point the evening of Dana's murder. And at the time, she probably thought it was Dana, but she did likely suspect even then that Dana wasn't alone in her basement apartment.

And that's because at around 6 PM, she'd noticed an unknown car parked in the driveway right behind Dana's. Though, it's important to note, she couldn't remember any specific details about the car, not thinking anything was out of the norm at the time. I mean, she hadn't really been paying much attention. The landlord and her teenage son were home around the time Dana was thought to have been killed. But they didn't hear anything concerning.

No loud arguments, no sounds of a struggle or screams for help. But it was a pretty big house after all. Now, it should have been easy to figure out who Dana was with that night. Detectives discovered that she kept a detailed date book and a diary that gave a pretty good play-by-play of her life. She also had a caller ID box. So for 1995, I mean, police had everything they could possibly want to pinpoint who she was with

or who she'd at least been in contact with leading up to her death. Except they didn't. She had a landline. So when somebody would call, the call number would come up on the caller ID box. And you could delete that. But in this case, the person took the actual box with them. It seems most likely that the killer took the box with them because their number would have shown up

in the recent call list, possibly the most recent. You see, detectives spoke to one of Dana's friends who had been hanging out with her at Dana's place on Saturday afternoon before leaving at around 5.30, and she had observed something very telling. There was a friend of hers who was over there Saturday afternoon, and they were planning to go out, but then Dana changed her mind.

And during the time that she was over there, Dana kept getting these phone calls that when she checked the caller ID, she just didn't bother answering. Now, along with the caller ID box, there were at least three other items known to be missing. The first being Dana's apartment key. Seemingly it had been taken with her killer, probably used to lock the door on his way out. But the weird thing is, the killer didn't keep it. And of all people, it was a reporter who found it

as they were filming news coverage outside of her place. He finds the key in the street. He calls the detectives over to comment on it. And sure enough, it's the key to Dana's apartment. It's interesting that the killer felt the need to lock the door after he's left. From my understanding, it was taken off a key ring. And so why did he do that? Why did he feel the need to take it off the key ring?

And of course, once I didn't need it anymore, I would have gotten rid of it as soon as possible because that would be something to link me to her. And I wouldn't want that to be found in my possession. The other two items that appeared to be missing were never found. Her most recent date book and diary, which makes Detective Traynham think that someone was trying to erase any sign that they had ever existed in Dana's life. But there was something left behind that couldn't be erased. Her autopsy revealed that Dana was four

weeks pregnant. Johnny told our reporter Madison that her family hadn't known about the pregnancy, but in hindsight, he did remember something. Dana had recently called him to let him know that she would be making a trip home soon. She said she had something to tell him. You could theorize that she had just learned that she may be pregnant. Maybe it hasn't been confirmed yet,

but she's just learned this. And she told this person that one of the things that in reading information about the interviews, she would use a condom. Maybe with this person, she did. Maybe she developed some kind of more personal relationship with him and didn't use a condom and became pregnant. We really don't know. These things are all theories that you really can't prove

one way or the other. We know Dana did know. These things are all theories that you really can't prove one way or the other." We know Dana did know about the pregnancy, because about a week before her murder, she confided the news to a co-worker. It came up because this friend or co-worker caught Dana crying at the office. So it seemed like this revelation was not something Dana had planned or was happy about, at least not in that vulnerable moment. We don't know for sure if Dana told this friend or anyone else who she thought the father may have been. Both Traynham and Farish didn't think that friend or anyone else detectives spoke to had ever offered up a possible name, at least that they could remember.

And you would think that a comment like that would stand out enough to leave a lasting impression. We asked present-day DC police commander Kevin Kentish if Dana had given her friend a name of a potential guy, but he said he couldn't comment as obviously this person would be considered a suspect. Finding out who Dana was with before she died was police's number one priority. And lucky for them, Dana herself might have left them their first list of potential suspects.

Dana had been keeping track of the various men she'd been seeing. Inside her apartment, police found notes that included some names and phone numbers. What her job didn't know, what her parents didn't know, what a lot of her close friends did was that, one, she had a lot of boyfriends, but two, she was working part-time as an escort.

She was advertising for dates, and back then, you didn't have the internet, of course, and so we would advertise in, like, the local weekly newspaper, you know, people looking for companionship or or whatnot. There was like some phone lines that you could call and exchange information. And from my understanding, from what her friends were saying about her and from what some of her clients at her interview were saying about her was that she was asking for money directly. Typically, if she got involved with a client and they had sex, she would maybe drop a hint that she could use money, and they would oftentimes pay her.

I think it's important to clear something up. There are some things I found online that seem to imply that what she was doing was extortion, but both Traynham and Farish said none of the men who were interviewed described it as being blatant or malicious. Farish said it was more like Dana was making suggestions. It was the, let me play the sympathy card, heart string, or don't be a dummy. Whatever way you want to put it,

yeah, it isn't like she came out and said, look, give me some cash or I'm calling the old lady. We had no indication of that. It was just, you know, there were men that did stupid things and, you know, no pun intended, basically caught with their pants down and, you know, had the, the monetary wherewithal to say, you know what, it's easier to give her a hundred dollars and roll out of here, pretend like this never happened. And I think that was more along the lines

of what would occur. It was the quote unquote, my roommate suddenly moved out, sob story type thing. One of the interesting things about her, and this was actually what one of her friends warned her about, she would become emotionally involved with some of these folks. And she would begin to see them as friends. So that probably did play a part

in her demise. And I hate to phrase it that way because the last thing that we need to do is start victim blaming. Just because she engaged in that lifestyle does not mean that she deserved to die. So I think we have to be careful. But we also have to understand that victimology. So I think we have to be careful. But we also have to understand, victimology is very important, because we have to understand what might have been going on around the victim's life during that time. And again, a bad word, but appropriate word,

contributed to her demise. Oftentimes that's the only way that you can identify of the person who killed her by looking at that aspect and looking at timelines and things like that. Now the kind of men she saw varied. Businessmen, flashy guys she met out at clubs, some were single, others were married, but according to Farish there was one type that she seemed to go for above all others. She kind of had a thing for cops. There was several cops that we identified,

whether they were local or federal law enforcement, had relations with her, whether it was a date and sex or just meeting somewhere and hooking up. Out of all of the law enforcement that they identified and interviewed, Farish thinks at least two were cops who were working for MPD at the time. It was one of those, look, you're going to come down and talk to us, or I'm going to

call your house and have you come down and talk to us. Don't you think it would just be easier? I don't care if you're stepping out on your marriage. That's not my business. That's between you, your conscience, and your wife, not me. The ones in law enforcement that we did identify were very confident. And believe me, they were scrutinized. We looked at them sideways. So, you know, no doubt, and rest assured, every effort was put into identifying who we could,

getting the story out of them, and then trying to pick it apart so that we didn't have egg on our face later. There was another MPD officer who wasn't necessarily on Dana's list, who may have been familiar with her, though. Remember Detective Louis Douglas? Although he hadn't initially remembered any connection to Dana,

after her body was found and he came down to the homicide office to make a statement, he realized that he had actually met her before. You see, about a week or so before Dana's murder, there had been some things stolen at the Hudson Institute where she worked. And Douglas was the one handling that case, and he'd actually talked to Dana. He denied any sort of contact with her beyond that. He said that when he got back to the station after her body had been found, he went through

the complainant file and found her name in the file system as someone he had talked to or someone he had taken a report from. He said that he had no memory of her until he went back and pulled that up. Dana kept this book filled with business cards, which was found during investigators' search of her place. And the theory that emerged was that her killer could have found the card that Detective Douglas would have given Dana inside that book and then had taken it with him to the payphone that night.

And that's why he used the name Detective Douglas when he called the Chisholms. And that might be true. It might not. But either way, it didn't explain why he made the call in the first place. Was it intended to give a reason to her parents why she wouldn't be in touch? Maybe to try and prolong anyone realizing that Dana was dead. Or was it purely just to mess with them?

One day in March, when the phone at the homicide office rang, then Sergeant Michael Farish got the answer to that question. And I'm sitting at my desk and someone hollered, hey, Sarge, line one. So I hit line one, yeah, Sarge and Farish, homicide. The person starts talking to me and that's when I realized they know something about this case. I'm looking back at the detectives in the office who were working going, okay, someone's just messing with me. But they start talking about the case,

not in particulars, but more about Dana. As squad sergeant of the homicide unit at that time, Farish had naturally become kind of the talking head for Dana's case. Any updates to the media were made through him. So it made sense why this caller would have asked for him specifically. When I'm talking to him, it's a quick phone call.

I'm talking about maybe a minute, 90 seconds. But he said enough for me to go, this might be legit. If it ain't one of the guys messing with me, this might be legit. And the voice is not familiar to me. So when he's talking he's like well you know you know how to reach out to me and I'm like no dude I don't know how to reach out to you and I was like you know give me a name and he goes what do you think I'm gonna give you my name and I go well you gotta give me something I go because I'm tired of calling you sir and dude and I said so

give me a name so I know if you call me again, I'll know I'm talking to you. And he gave me a name. Though the voice was similar to the one who called the Chisms, a bit raspy, maybe a guy in his 30s or 40s, this time he didn't call himself Detective Douglas. No, this time he used the name of a Marvel character. Now, I'm not going to reveal which one, because it's something that Farish believes could be important to hold back.

In fact, the first time Madison called him and mentioned the nickname she heard, he was taken aback, afraid that the cat was out of the bag. But he wanted you to know the Marvel part, because after all of this time, he thinks that there's a chance that that's what could stand out to someone who may have information. Maybe the caller chose this specific Marvel superhero

for a reason. Because I, A, was hoping that this guy would call me again. Because he called two or three times. He always asked to speak to me. Sometimes he called, you know, I'm working day day work and he'd call on the midnight shift or he'd call on the three to eleven shift and I would come in and in my mail sloppy one of those little yellow or pink you were called by and they would write down the name you were called by so-and-so but we had no caller ID we couldn't do

trap and trace we couldn't do any of that so on my desk phone I had what they called an induction coil which is basically just a suction cup it was a suction cup with a microphone and you would put it on like the backside of the receiver that you put up an ear here and it had a wire and would run to an old fashioned tape recorder. And when you went to take a call. So whenever I was at my desk, I would hit record on the tape deck and pick up the phone in case it was him. Of course he never called when I was sitting in my damn desk. There was no set schedule or anything and he would never stay on the phone.

He would never let me put him on hold, I guess, because he always thought that, oh, you're gonna trace the phone number. And I would be like, dude, we can't trace the phone. This is the DC police department. We're using dial phones. We don't have that kind of technology, but for whatever reason, he didn't buy it.

We couldn't trace those calls. It was impossible, believe me, didn't buy it. We couldn't trace those calls. It was impossible, believe me. We looked into it. Was there any way to trace incoming calls? The answer was flat, no. The one thing they did find out was that the incoming calls were local. Ferris said the man sounded intelligent,

not genius, but smart, and in control of his emotions. This guy would never straight up say that he killed Dana, but the insinuation was definitely there. In one of the few calls where he made contact with Farish, he said that he knew why Dana was murdered. Said it was because of her lifestyle, because she went out to clubs and slept with multiple men. And he wanted Farish to let the world know that.

He wanted him to announce it to the media. So after seeking some advice from behavioral analysis experts at Quantico, Farish did go public with more information on Dana. But he painted a picture very opposite of the one that the caller had described. I think I referred to her as the all-American girl, the kind of, you know, the cheerleader, sang in the choir,

kind of girl you bring home to mom and dad. It seemed to work. He got a rise out of this caller, and after a bit of a break, the man called again saying he was back in town. And now he was willing to meet face to face with Farish. All I remember is I had a trench coat on because it was raining and it was chilly. But I was in the office, the phone rang, it was him, and he said, if you wanna meet me,

and he gave me a location out in, if I remember correctly, I believe it was out in southeast DC, out off Minnesota Avenue, and he said, come and meet me there. And I grabbed my coat, grabbed my radio, and I ran out the door. I don't even remember telling anybody else in the unit that I was headed out

I was just like you need me. I'm on the radio. I Drove over there. I parked the cruiser You know, it was an unmarked cruiser But you know every every mope in the city knew what unmarked police cruisers look like. And I sat there in the rain drinking coffee and smoking cigarettes and looking at every car and every person that walked by, uh, hoping that if he comes up on me and he goes to shoot me, at least I hope I see him coming. And he doesn't come in from an angle, from a mirror that I don't see.

Uh, but that's how badly I wanted to meet this son of a. Because I don't wanna say I took it personal, but I guess it's sort of like, oh, you've taunted with me. I really wanna see the one behind this. The guy who poked the bear and said, yeah, you want to meet me? Come and meet me. And had me sitting in a car for God, I don't remember how many hours I sat there just burning gas, sitting in the cold wet, hoping that he would show up and

if he did, I'd never saw him, but he would have seen me. I honestly don't know. I mean, I know that feeling you say, where you feel like you're being watched. I don't know. I wouldn't say that that overcame me. There was plenty of vantage points to see me without approaching.

Hell, he could have walked right past the car or looked in the window. I wouldn't have known it was him. You know what I mean? After about two months and three short phone calls, this mysterious man never contacted police or the Chisholm's again, at least to anyone's knowledge, which left that provocative message

that the killer had written on Dana's wall calendar to just loom over them. But then it says something really interesting, which is I'll be back in PD. Anticipation and anxiety morphed into relief when the killer didn't follow through on his threat. There didn't seem to be any other victims connected to this case. And even better, they realized that his note and the warning at the end, might actually include a big clue about who their suspect could be. Traynham and Farish both believed that this man had some type of relationship with Dana.

This wasn't some random stranger. What he wrote, the fact that he called her parents and told them that she was busted for sex work, even the stuff he told Farish to say to the media, it all led to the same possible conclusion. I think it can be argued that, one, he's very angry with her. He is involved in some kind of relationship with her. He's very angry. He wants her to grade it, probably because she hurt him or whatever along that line.

Maybe she wasn't monogamous like he wanted her to be, but he definitely wanted the world to know, wanted her parents to know that he considered her to be an awful person. The second clue was an even bigger one. You see, both Traynham and Farish said that around this time, those outside of law enforcement weren't likely referring to the force as MPD. It was much more common to simply say DC police. My tentative theory at this point would be that, I mean, this would be somebody who she had established a relationship with relatively soon before her death, that he was extremely possessive.

He had some sort of knowledge or contact with police officers. So he did either worked in law enforcement, had a law enforcement source, or maybe was a criminal himself who had enough information about that. Though Farish feels fairly confident that the killer wasn't with MPD at the time,

he, like Traynham, is pretty sure that there's at least some link to local police. Somebody maybe had been a cop and got fired for whatever reason. You know, they could have had dirty pee, you know, got fired because they smoked a joint or some crap, who knows? But there could have been an ax to grind

towards the department too. Along with the use of the acronym MPD, Traynham also points out the way that the killer talked to Dana's parents the night that he called them, his lingo and the information he gave. He didn't really know that much about investigations, but he knew enough about prostitution stings. He knew enough about how police booking works, things along that line. You want to know the thing that makes me the most convinced? Where that call to Johnny was made from?

Remember, it was traced to a payphone by the interstate. And they were only able to do that because long-distance calls were recorded by the phone providers back then, and a call from DC to her parents down in South Carolina would have been long-distance. I think he knew that. And let me tell you why. Some say that he might have picked that location because it was right where you could hop on the highway to leave the district, you know, high-tail it out of town.

And sure, maybe that's it. But maybe it's deeper than that. Maybe it was another message. There's a place called Triple Nickel, which was 555 Fourth Street, Northwest. That was U.S. Attorney's Office. Two blocks south of that was police headquarters. Two blocks north of that was a carryout on a corner at

Fourth and Massachusetts Avenue. And then like a block, block and a half north of that was what we called court parking where back at that time, if you had a, if you were an officer, there was a parking lot that you had a court, pat parking permit. You put it in your windshield. You could park your car on this lot to go and attend court because next door to police headquarters was the DC superior court, which is where most of the trials occurred. So the phone call to the Chisholm, we don't know if it was intentionally

made from that location, but it was made between court parking, U S attorney's office, and then just below that headquarters and court. So it was a, it was a location very well known to any cop that did any work and never had to go to the U.S. Attorney's court or headquarters. That carry out at that corner where the pay phones were also was a place where a lot of cops would stop and get a cup of coffee.

So was this a coincidence? Was it possible the killer was one of their own? Or was it someone who hated law enforcement and made the calculated move to stick their metaphorical middle finger up at investigators? Like, I just killed a woman and now I'm right outside, practically on your doorstep, calling her parents, pretending to be one of you." The list of men who were officially connected to law enforcement in Dana's case is limited. If you remember, at least two who were working for MPD who were known to have engaged with

Dana socially, maybe about a handful of others who worked for different law enforcement agencies, who she had seen in some form or fashion, and Detective Lewis Douglas. Now that's not to say that there weren't more, because again, her most recent datebook and diary and caller ID were taken intentionally trying to erase some record of someone. But, of the people who we do know about, someone stands out to Johnny Chisholm. He has always wondered if there was more to this Detective Lewis Douglas story. For one, he told our reporter Madison that the one time they spoke, Douglas asked him about finding his daughter before Johnny even clarified what exactly was going on.

Two, he thinks it's possible that the voice he heard on the phone that fateful night sounded similar enough to have potentially been the real Detective Douglas he called later that morning. And three, he found it odd that Detective Douglas never did call him back, never explained why his name had gotten mixed up in all of this. You could say Johnny just thought it was all a little sketchy. Had the killer really just found Douglas' card and decided to roll with it, that's actually what both retired Detective Traynham and retired Captain Farish think.

Of course, that thought was in our head. Did know, did Lewis meet her when he was down on a call, you know, working, give her his card and said, hey, let's hook up. And did she maybe say, yeah, we, you know, we had to flesh that out and we did. And you know, long story short, we were able to clear Lewis Douglas from any, any kind of involvement in this. Farish also had an explanation for some of Johnny's concerns. At the time, Douglas was young, he was inexperienced in his role, maybe even a little reserved.

The seemingly odd interaction Johnny had could just be blamed on the fact that Douglas was, I mean, shocked that his name had been dragged into something so brutal. Present-day DC police commander Kevin Kentish also confirmed this for our reporter Madison. Yes, Douglas was looked into, but nothing led them to believe that he could have been the killer. He was not considered a suspect.

And that wasn't just true of Douglas. Police looked at a lot of people, and each of them were getting eliminated as suspects one by one, either through alibis, voice stress tests, or the like. They did focus in a lot on a couple of associates, both personal and professional of Dana's, mostly ones that had either a violent background or criminal background, may have been involved in some sort of domestic issues on their own. I don't have any specific numbers as to how many people they questioned or looked at

or whatever, but there were a lot. I mean, I would say dozens. And some they looked at much more carefully than others. Some they could rule out pretty quickly because they had good alibis that they were able to cooperate. Others, especially if they weren't cooperative or whatever, it took longer to rule them out. And like I said, I just don't know how many they ruled out based on voice stress analysis tests. Back then, you would investigate by

polygraph and you would use that to make decisions as to who you would follow up on and who you wouldn't. Not recognizing a number of false positives and false negatives. You know, the best polygraph examiners, first of all, I don't believe in a polygraph for many reasons, but I have worked with polygraph examiners and the best ones that I have worked with. The main value of the polygraph is the mystique behind it.

And it's the pre-polygraph interview where the person is so freaked out that they're gonna be caught on a polygraph that they give more information than they intended to. But the best polygraph examiners I ever worked with would always tell me that you always follow the evidence, you don't follow the polygraph. Don't follow the polygraph. Follow the evidence. Well, lucky for MPD, it seems like they should have some of that to work with. During Dana's autopsy in 1995, a full examination was done along with a sexual assault kit. There was no indication of semen. I don't recall any being found on the bed

because there was evidence they had been in the bed prior to where she was ultimately found near a hallway door or a closet door outside of the bedroom. But that doesn't mean there wasn't any sexual activity involved in that. There are some questions as to whether or not they were semen on another article within the house. According to Traynham, that other article might be a towel. Well, we know that they wanted to test it back in 1995.

However, during that time period, there was no CODIS database. And so no laboratory would just test an item just to get a DNA sample if they had nothing to compare it to. You needed to submit somebody's DNA to the laboratory so that they could do a one-on-one comparison. Now, I do know that they did take, you know, saliva samples, you know, DNAs,

you know, from several people, but I don't have any information as to if those were submitted and compared to the towel. Farish also remembers some folks offering up saliva samples voluntarily, but at least while he was on the force, resources kept detectives from being able to send anything off. DNA work at that time, we had to farm out to Bode labs and it was expensive. I mean, for like two items to be tested was like five grand. And you got to remember this is a time when the city was broke. You got to remember this is a time when the city was broke.

We were sometimes putting tires on police cars out of our own pocket. The police department couldn't afford to buy tires for the fricking cars. I mean, it was bad. You know, we had rotary phones at the homicide unit. No caller ID, no voicemail, no. It was bad. Finan No, it was bad. Financially, it was bad.

So DNA testing was very specific and it wasn't a fishing expedition to see, oh, well, let's do DNA testing to see if something's in CODIS that'll match. Because you gotta remember, I don't even know if they called it Kodas yet It was in its infancy. I mean we understood the concept of DNA, but we also Understood how financially prohibitive it was for our department to have DNA work done

Basically back then what they did is they would look at DNA as more of a way to prove that the suspect you already had did it. Not a way to like go looking for suspects. And the problem they had was truly that they had no idea who killed Dana. And I know that sounds like a party line, but we even asked Ferris straight up, you know, like, okay, no official suspects, we get it. But every detective has a favorite, even if it's just a hunch. Who was your hunch? Who was your favorite? There's no one that I sat there and I went, you know, I think this

film is good for it. I've been in homicide around long enough to know 90 to 95% of the cases that are investigated within a reasonable amount of time. Most of the time the detectives got a pretty good idea who did the murder. It's one thing to know, and it's another thing to take the court and prove, and they just lack that proof.

In Dana's case, honestly, my answer is no. Without even an old-fashioned Colombo hunch to follow, they needed what DNA has now become. It's not as cost prohibitive nowadays and with the growth of CODIS, the database over 30 years, and now you throw in the genetic DNA work that can be done, it's only going to get better because that's only going to improve and lead to more suspects being identified. Starting at around the year 2000, during the entire last decade of his career with MPD, Traynham was working to identify cold cases within the department that had the potential

of being solved using DNA evidence. I mean, that's the whole reason he had familiarized himself with Dana's case in the first place. It was part of this bigger review. He was flagging the ones with the best chances and within those cases, identifying which items would be sent off first. But here's the thing. When it came to the forensic evidence in Dana's case, they hadn't been able to move forward with testing any items,

not because they didn't want to, but because they couldn't find them. We have a very poor track record, especially back then of keeping evidence. It's oftentimes misplaced. What was going on during the time right before I left was they were actually moving the warehouse. And so evidence that we could not find earlier, they were now going through every piece of evidence and barcoding and putting it into a database. And that's why this case was listed on my spreadsheet as one where we hadn't found the evidence yet but the information

about property control numbers were there and so if they were able to find the evidence in the future. During his review, Traynham says that there were several items of interest that stood out right away. But at that point they were stuck. They had to just wait and see if they would be able to locate any of those things during the move. But there were several things that could be tested. Not only the towel, but also the ligatures, the phone cord, the one around her neck. We didn't know this back then, but of course if somebody grabs a cord and they pull it, they tighten it, their skin cells are going to go off on the cord and you can oftentimes

get a DNA profile from that. And there's something else. There's like over 100 fingerprints found in our house. Back then you needed to have somebody's prints to compare it to one to one. I never saw any information about any fingerprint comparisons that were done with any of these suspects. But now they have automatic fingerprint comparison system where you can take prints that are of sufficient quality, run them through this

database and it will kick back with like the top 10, top 20, top 30. You then have to do a manual comparison. That would be something that I would have done. Go back and reevaluate these prints, put them through the system, see what kicks back. There was also special attention given to the bathroom in Dana's apartment because of what her landlady had heard. That long shower, it's believed, that the killer took that night.

I think that's why, uh, that much attention was paid on the whole, uh, shower, you know, the drain and the trap and all that. It's because that information she shared while we were still on the scene. They even pulled the drain in the tub, you know, for hairs or anything else. What about Dana being pregnant?

What I wondered more than anything else was, couldn't some DNA samples have been obtained from the fetal tissue to determine paternity? The short answer is yes, it could. Yes, there would have been a sample, tissue sample taken by the medical examiner during all autopsy. This is where things get a little frustrating. When Traynham eventually retired in 2010, to his knowledge, they had yet to locate

the potential forensic evidence in Dana's case. Now it's worth noting that Farish wasn't on the same cold case review team as Traynham. Towards the end of his career, he was more focused on current homicides, so he wasn't really privy to the notion that anything in Dana's case had perhaps even gone missing. But Farish did say that when he retired two years after Traynham in 2012, as far as he was aware, still nothing in Dana's case had been sent off for testing. So we needed to go directly to the source, the authority currently in charge, to find

out what's been going on here. But it remains unclear. Because when Madison spoke with Commander Kentish during an informal half-hour phone conversation, he wouldn't get into specifics. unsure if these items are even still existed? No, so the evidence has been preserved. There's no fear that I can't speak to the exact testing or evidence, but I can say that we have made some progress in that case. And it is being investigated right now. It is not a cold case as far as on the shelf.

Somebody's actively investigating that case. And we have made some good progress progress in that case that unfortunately, because it's open, I can't talk about. Can you say if the progress is like related to testing evidence or like potential evidence? That's played a role in us making the progress. OK, OK, that's great to hear. OK, so it's safe to say, you know, for the story, we can say that evidence in this case, that, you know, forensic evidence in this case has been preserved does exist. And that, you know, testing of those items has led to progress.

Yes, that is correct. Can you say the last time one or more of those items was tested? Like, was it recently? No comment on that one. I really want to hold on to what he said about making good progress, but because I don't know what testing he's referring to or how recently it may have happened, maybe it's false hope. Commander Kentish did specifically confirm that some sort of fetal tissue evidence does exist and that attempting to figure out who the father was using forensic technology is

something detectives are looking into. Now, I'm going to say the obvious thing real quick, like getting Dana pregnant does not automatically mean that this person is also her killer. But Johnny Chisholm told our reporting team that he feels like her pregnancy has to be connected to her death in some way. Police have to find the biological father. They have to find the person who tried so hard to wipe his existence from Dana's place and her life, whether they're the same person or not. Her friends might know this person and they might not be aware that he's never been identified or never been interviewed. I think it would be very helpful if there was anybody that they knew that Dana was involved with in any way, shape or form that they didn't tell the police about. Maybe they

learned about later after they were interviewed by the police. Or even if they did tell the police about. Maybe they learned about later after they were interviewed by the police. Or even if they did tell the police back then that they for whatever reason they still have a strong suspicion, well they even have a stronger suspicion now with the passage of time because things have happened. Just because police ruled out somebody back then doesn't mean that new information might lead them right back. So just as an example, uh, yeah, there was this guy who was seeing Dana. He seemed like he was really nice. Oh, but a few years later, he gets locked up for violently assaulting his girlfriend and some other stuff.

You know, maybe you want to call back and say, Hey, you might want to recheck this guy just in case. That was Traynham's call out. And mine is to MPD. I don't know if funding is still an issue, but if it is, please consider applying for a grant with Season of Justice. It's a nonprofit that will pay the private lab of your choosing to test DNA. In a few short years, they've already issued over a million dollars in grants that have

gone on to actually solve cold cases. I started that nonprofit because I believe that money should never be the reason that a family like the Chisholm's doesn't get answers. And listen, I'm not ignorant to the fickleness of the legal system. Depending on what DNA you get and from where, it might not be the smoking gun you need. If the DNA is matched to this person who says he's never been in the house, boom, that's probative. If the towel is in a place where, like, draped on top of items that were part of the ransacking,

that makes it more probative. If we learn from Dana's friends or associates that every Saturday or every Sunday morning, she does her laundry, washes all the towels, that makes it more probative. I'll take probative. Probative is a place to start, but those ligatures more than anything

seem like a treasure trove to me. Pretty hard to explain away your DNA on the phone cord wrapped around her neck. Listen, I wish I could tell you more about the testing. I wish I knew more. I bet the Chisholms wish they knew more, too. They have been kind and patient for a long time. I know many other families I work with feel like they have to be, like they don't wanna alienate the one line they have to the people and the agencies

who are supposed to solve their loved one's case. But that's why it's all of our jobs to make the noise. It is unacceptable to me that it has taken this long to do everything possible in Dana's case. There should be viable evidence. There are available funding methods. So there are no excuses. Dana deserves so much better.

Her family deserves better. The people of DC should be furious because they deserve better too. It's evident Dana's murderer wanted to degrade her, wanted everyone to think less of her. But I hope he knows that we don't. Not a single person we spoke to does. Dana was kind-hearted, someone who never met a stranger. Her dad described her like this, there are some people who were just put on this earth because they were meant to serve others, and that was his Dana.

Always helpful, forever a true friend. She was a loving young woman with a beautiful smile. Her life was full, and it was valuable, and that is how she will always be remembered. But to Dana's murderer, it's all about to come apart for you. People are going to know how small you are and how ugly your heart is. Dana was so much more in 25 years

than you have ever had the potential to be. I don't know how people look at you right now. If there's even anyone who looks at you with love or something like respect. But I'd take it in. You're on a clock now. And I'm not the only one who thinks so. Obviously, you don't feel safe. Obviously, you think that any day the hammer could come down. And you're right, the hammer may be coming down tomorrow. And you're right, the hammer may be coming down tomorrow. It's about time, past time, for someone who knows something to come forward.

Be that call that brings the Chisholm's faith after almost 30 years with no answers. If you are that someone, please call the Metropolitan Police Department in Washington, D.C. at 202-727-9099, or you can remain anonymous and just type what you know to NPD's text tip line 50411. There is a $25,000 reward for information that leads to the arrest and conviction in the homicide of Dana Chisholm. And don't forget that for the first time ever, you can experience this podcast visually. Head to the Crime Junkie YouTube page to find this episode on Dana Chisholm's case right now.

The Deck is an AudioChuck production with theme music by Ryan Lewis. To learn more about The Deck and an AudioChuck production with theme music by Ryan Lewis. To learn more about The Deck and our advocacy work, visit thedeckpodcast.com. So what do you think, Chuck? Do you approve? Woooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo