The Deck - Debra Elizabeth Espey (6 of Clubs, Florida)

Episode Date: April 3, 2024

Our card this week is Debra Espey, the 6 of Clubs from Florida. A college campus in broad daylight in a town literally called “Niceville” might be one of the last places you’d expect a young collegiate to disappear from, but in March 1973, that’s exactly what happened.Debra Espey’s case spans more than 50 years, includes a primary suspect from the beginning, and has long been thought to have connection to other unsolved cases in the Florida panhandle. But for all the twists and misdirections, detectives are hopeful they can close this case soon.If you knew Debra back then and she shared any concerns with you before her murder, detectives want to know. You can contact Emerald Coast Crime Stoppers at 850-863-8477. You can also submit a tip online HERE. Or, download the P3 Tips Mobile App to submit anonymous tips from a free and secure mobile app.View source material and photos for this episode at: thedeckpodcast.com/debra-elizabeth-espey Let us deal you in… follow The Deck on social media.Instagram: @thedeckpodcast | @audiochuckTwitter: @thedeckpodcast_ | @audiochuckFacebook: /TheDeckPodcast | /audiochuckllcTo apply for a Cold Case Playing Card grant through Season of Justice, please visit www.seasonofjustice.org The Deck is hosted by Ashley Flowers. Instagram: @ashleyflowersTikTok: @ashleyflowerscrimejunkieTwitter: @Ash_FlowersFacebook: /AshleyFlowers.AF Text Ashley at [phone] to talk all things true crime, get behind the scenes updates, and more!

Our card this week is Deborah Espy, the six of clubs from Florida. A college campus in broad daylight in a town literally called Niceville might be one of the last places you'd expect a young college student to disappear from. But in March 1973, that's exactly what happened. Deborah Espy's case spans more than 50 years with twists and misdirections all along the way. But detectives are hopeful that they can close this case soon. I'm Ashley Flowers, and this is The Deck. Music March 12, 1973 started as a typical day for Charles Espy, who dropped his daughter Deborah

off at Okaloosa-Walton Junior College for her Monday morning classes on his way to work. Charles worked at the nearby Eglin Air Force Base, and his day passed by normally. By day's end, he'd headed home and expected dinner to be ready and his family to be sitting around the table. But that's when he realized that his daughter Deborah wasn't home. And he knew that she should have been back from class by now. When he asked his wife if she'd talked to Deborah, she said that she had that morning before school, but like that was it. Debra had asked to have some of her clothes ready for the next day and told her mom what she wanted for dinner that night. Now we were fortunate enough to speak to one of Debra's relatives for

this episode. Her name is actually Debra as well, and because she married Debra's brother Wayne, she shares the exact same name, Debra Espy. She told our reporter that at the house, everyone started trying to recount their last interactions with Debra to determine where she might have been. And Debra's brother Wayne, who went to the same school, said that he had spoken to his sister after their dad had dropped her off that morning. He said Debra came to find him after her morning class and said that she was ready to go home. She didn't have a car herself, and she was hoping to hitch a ride with her brother, but

he couldn't leave right then. Wayne said, "'If I've got to take a test, give me 20 minutes, I'll be out on Take You Homes.'" He said he went to take the test, came out, and couldn't find her. He looked all around the campus, drove the path that he would have walked if he had walked home. But he really didn't think he'd probably walked. So he felt like maybe someone gave her a ride home. Here's Nicole Hodskins, law enforcement coordinator for Emerald Coast Crime Stoppers.

She said that back in 1973, hitchhiking was just the norm. This wasn't a far trip for her to make. You know, we're talking four or five, six miles is probably all she would have had to go from the college to her home. But clearly, whatever ride she did get from whoever, she hadn't made it. Once the clock hit 7.05, Charles knew that he needed to call the police to report his daughter missing. Even though she was 19, he knew it wasn't like her to just not come home. This girl had a routine that she followed, and she didn't often stray from it.

Kelly Henderson, senior investigator with the Ocaloosa County Sheriff's Office, told our reporting team that one of the first things police back then did was go to the college to see if they could confirm that Debra made it to her classes. They had even gotten class rosters. The investigators back then had gotten to show that she made it to one class, but not to the next class. Her dad, Charles, said he dropped her off for her 8 a.m. class,

the one that the roster confirmed she attended. But for some reason, she skipped the next class. What that class was, what Debra normally did between classes, or what time that next class was, all of that's unclear. So maybe she had this big break and wanted to go home real quick and that's why she's asking her brother for a ride.

Or maybe she was planning on fully skipping class that day. I mean, I know I skipped a class or two in college just because I wasn't feeling it. Or maybe there was something else that came up that made her deviate from her plans. Who knows? Detectives started interviewing other people on campus, students and faculty, but they didn't get much to fill in the gaps. I'm sure as the days went by, Deborah's family was hoping that she'd just show back up

and have an explanation for her sudden absence. But the entire week passed and she was still a no-show. By March 16th, Debra's disappearance was making headlines. The Playground Daily News out of nearby Fort Walton Beach reported Debra's appearance in that initial story, describing her as 5'2", 115 pounds with brown hair and brown eyes, and wearing quote, flight pants with fringed cuffs, a white blouse with light green flowers and gold green zipper, with a sweatshirt and hood,

cork clogs, and blue fabric top, unquote. It's super specific and so 70s. That article called for anyone who had seen Deborah to call the Ocaloosa County Sheriff's Department.

And that weekend, a sizable search party was put together. It didn't seem like Deborah had just taken off on her own. So on March 17th and 18th, about 100 volunteers gathered together and searched the wooded area between the college and the ESPY's neighborhood. And this was a large, pretty much undeveloped wooded area. But they searched it thoroughly, still finding no sign of Debra. One week after Debra went missing, detectives headed back to the college to see if anyone

recalled any new details, and what they heard actually kind of confused them. There had apparently been a sighting of Debra from a maintenance worker at the school who said that he saw her go through a soda shop on campus called The Spoon at around 4.30 the Monday that she vanished. Which didn't make a whole lot of sense, like had she been on campus that whole time and just not gone to class? And if that was the case, they had to have been wondering how her brother Wayne missed her when he went out looking for her, because we're not talking about some huge sprawling

campus, this is just a small junior college. But then another witness came forward. A woman told police that she had stopped for a hitchhiker on March 12th, and she was pretty sure that hitchhiker was Debra. After seeing a photo of her at the police station, this woman was even more convinced. She said that she had picked this girl up sometime at around 10am, and that she dropped her off near a highway that headed out to the Seminole neighborhood area around Niceville, which is where Debra lived. I mean, if these sightings were true, I guess Debra could have backtracked and gone back

to school instead of going home, but detectives still couldn't account for where she was between 10 a.m. and 4 p.m. On March 20th, the Pensacola News Journal published a story quoting the lead investigator at the time, who said that he did not believe they were dealing with a runaway situation. They also confirmed in that article that they didn't think Debra had any clothes or money on her. The news journal also reported that Debra didn't have a known boyfriend. The same day that that story ran, a night custodian at the college came forward and

said that on Monday, March 12th, at 5 p.m., he saw someone that looked like Deborah sitting in the passenger side of a green car with a young man in the driver's seat. And he even had an idea of who the guy was, someone we'll call Donald. The car was a dark green American Rambler, which is what Donald regularly drove. Except, turns out that that car wasn't green anymore. When detectives went looking for the car and the guy, they realized that he had had the car painted and then sold it. When investigators brought Donald in for questioning,

all he said was that he really didn't know Deborah all that well. She was just someone he went to school with. He said he'd given her a couple of rides in the past, but he said he didn't even see her on the 12th. And as far as the car stuff, he had an explanation. One that they were able to verify. Apparently the paint job was planned well before this, and they even tracked down the new owner of the car and everything seemed to be above board. So Donald was let go. Detectives thought maybe the custodian just got his nights confused, even though he was given a polygraph asking which day he saw Deborah and Donald together. And he passed.

But regardless, detectives kept trying to work other angles of the investigation. But when weeks went by with no new developments, police didn't really feel like there was much else they could do to further the case. So they kind of just stepped away from it. Basically, they said until they had a new lead or tip that gave them some direction, they just had to play the waiting game. And then Debra's name stopped showing up in the local newspapers around that same time.

But their waiting game ended on the afternoon of Tuesday, April 17th. That's when an Air Force captain by the name of Paul Smith was out riding his motorcycle on a wooded trail off Rocky Bayou Road, which was technically Air Force property. But it bordered the Rocky Bayou Country Club golf course that was under construction at the time, so it was pretty easy for anyone, civilians included, to access this secluded area. So it's around 5.30 at night that he's driving, and he's just out for this casual ride when he sees something rather unusual sticking out of the ground. After a moment, he realized that what he was looking at was a human leg. The rest of the person's body had seemingly been buried in

a shallow grave. After a second or two to confirm that what he was looking at was actually a person's leg, he hopped back on his motorcycle and sped home. And once he got to his phone, just before 6 p.m., he called the Niceville Police Department, who in turn called the Sheriff's Office for help, and eventually the Florida Department of Law Enforcement agents, who in turn called the Sheriff's Office for help. And eventually Florida Department of Law Enforcement agents joined them too. Within the hour, the whole area was locked down as a crime scene.

It was a shallow grave to begin with. I think the person responsible was scared and, oh no, let me, what have I done? Let me cover this up as fast as I can and just rushed at it. I don't think it was a pre-planned, pre-meditated thing. I think he killed her. I say he, but whoever. I think they killed her and then freaked out and I got to get rid of the body quick and just dug enough and then left the area." The medical examiner back then told the Playground Daily News that the hole was deep on one end, but then shallow on the other, almost as if the killer had realized how much work it was gonna be to dig a grave

and just gave up halfway through. When a pathologist helped uncover the body, they discovered that it was that of a woman dressed only in a green blouse and a bra, and both were pulled up, exposing her breasts. Now, they didn't know who they'd found because the person they were looking at had been severely decomposed.

But missing teenager Deborah Espy was in the back of everyone's minds. Though there was still a little doubt because even though she'd been missing for a month at this point, these remains were incredibly decomposed. The burial site was just 200 yards from Rocky Bayou Road, but it was starting to get dark, so the detective started a search of the surrounding area first thing the next morning. That was April 18th. And they did this in hopes of finding more items

of evidence, particularly the clothing that their victims seemed to be missing. The search was immediately fruitful, but it told a chilling story. Close to where she'd been buried, they unearthed a green jacket covered in dirt. And farther out from the site, detectives found a scattering of other personal belongings

that they were pretty sure belonged to their victim. A little over 100 feet, an eyeglass case, a deck of playing cards, a small Bible booklet, a hairbrush, and an empty clutch. Almost 40 feet farther out from that was a pair of blue shoes. And even farther out, but less than two football fields away, was a brown shoulder bag.

It looked to detectives like the victim had been chased. And as she was running, things were falling out of her bags and her shoes and clothes were getting ripped off while she was trying to make her escape. I think she definitely was resistant in fighting back. Just based on what I've seen and read, obviously I wasn't working the case from day one, but I don't think it was, I'm going to go ransack through your stuff and just throw it out. I think it was more because of the struggle and her trying to fight her assailant.

They kept searching and found a pair of women's underwear, a pill bottle with Deborah Espy's name on it, and the probable murder weapon. Detectives found a car jack handle that they believed the killer used to hit the victim. But unfortunately, it had been in the elements as long as she had, so any potential fingerprint evidence had been lost to the rain and wind. But forget that. It was time to figure out who this woman was. Overnight, a dentist was called in and they were able to confirm her identity using dental records.

In fact, they lucked out because her dental records had just been created one month prior. So they had very accurate records to compare. And that's what confirmed what most people had already been thinking at the crime scene. They had found the body of missing 19-year-old Debra Espy. The autopsy happened right away and revealed that she had died from blunt force trauma to the back of her skull. And in addition to being hit in the back of the head, it appeared that she'd been hit on the side or the front of her face as well, because her jaw was broken too.

Now, because she was so decomposed, they couldn't determine the time of her death, and a physical exam couldn't conclude whether or not she'd been sexually assaulted. The kit that they did didn't pull any DNA, but that didn't completely rule the idea out. I mean, the fact that she'd been found partially cloaked was a good indicator that her attack was sexually motivated in some way. Because she had no defensive wounds, investigators speculated that Debra's attacker caught her as she was running, punched her in the jaw to stun her and keep her still, and then

sexually assaulted her and hit her with the carjack handle on the back of the head, killing her before burying her in a shallow grave. And it was actually the rain that they had gotten over the last month that shifted the earth enough to expose her leg, allowing her to be found. But the same water drenched all of her belongings, likely making them forensically useless to the investigation. But the sheriff told the Pensacola News Journal in an April 24th article that they sent the evidence. He didn't specify what, though,

but they sent it to the FDLE lab in Tallahassee anyway. Debra's family must have been devastated to realize that she was never gonna reappear in their lives. But sister-in-law Debra said that there was also a little bit of relief. It's like an angel. They were looking for an angel.

That's what some people used to say years ago. When they found her body, they had a funeral, had a white casket. My in-laws got a white casket for her. They also had the horrible task of notifying Deborah's older brother Tommy, who was away in the service. Tommy was in the military, so he really, he wasn't there. And, you know, they had to contact him by the way the military let him know that his sister was missing. And then when they found her, they had to do it, let him know that she was dead.

After Deborah's funeral, detectives went back to the drawing board. And then when they found her, they had to do it, let him know that she was dead. After Debra's funeral, detectives went back to the drawing board. And when they looked back over their files, one name kept popping up, Donald. And interestingly, Donald's connections to Debra seemed to be deeper than what he first let on. They said that he would have been

about the same age as Debra. He would have been connected to her through more than just attending the same college. He likely would have seemed creepy and would have behaved oddly around women. Same age, check. Same school, check. Seemingly odd or creepy, allegedly check. The only thing that didn't fit was the idea that Donald told them he hardly knew her, as in wasn't connected to her outside of school. But detectives found out that wasn't true. They'd actually attended

the same karate dojo. So they brought Donald in again, and asked him again if he'd given Debra a ride on March 12. And again, he said no. He did not give her a ride on the 12th. Sure, he'd given her some rides, you know, here and there in the past, he said, but she wasn't anywhere near his car on that day. So to confirm his story, as they loved to do in the 70s, they gave him a polygraph test, and he failed. The polygrapher noted that it was his opinion

that Donald killed and buried Debra, but seemingly, I guess because he didn't have a criminal record and there was no useful evidence left behind that could physically connect him to the scene, he was just free to walk on out. But just because they let Donald walk free didn't mean he wasn't under constant surveillance. The FDLE assigned an agent to pretty much follow Donald around and keep track of his every move. Though they weren't super sneaky about it. Donald quickly caught on and wasn't very happy he was being followed.

And here's where things got a little weird. Donald was driving down the road and he realized that the special agent from FDLE was following him and so pulls over on his own. The FDLE agent gets out and Donald decides to give him his theory of what happened. And his theory was, you know, I think that she was walking and some guy wanted to have, you know, do something with her and maybe have sex with her and she resisted. And, you know, she has a weak jaw because, you know, I went to karate with her and I know my instructor told me, this girl has a weak jaw. And she's only gonna learn enough to,

just enough to get her killed. She's not gonna be able to defend herself through her karate techniques and skills. So, hysteria is that this guy was trying to have sex with her, she resisted. The guy punches her in the face, which would cause her lower jaw to break. And then there was a stump nearby and she probably fell back and probably hit her head on the stump and got a fracture in the skull. Now, I just need to say that none of this information was public.

So his theory was pretty damn good because he had an explanation for almost every single one of Deborah's injuries. Injuries that, if innocent, he should have no idea about. But what can you do with a hypothetical theory? So again, nothing happened. Eventually the surveillance stopped and Donald just went about his life. Suspicious, but not charged or arrested for anything. Things were pretty much at a standstill then, and there wouldn't be any more movement for another seven or eight months, not until November of 1973, when another body of another young

woman was found just three miles from where Deborah's body had been found. The victim in that case was 19-year-old Teresa Ducevich. They were both found in a shallow grave, partially disrobed, indicating that it could have been sexually motivated. One was blunt force trauma where the other one was shot, had a bullet hole, but they were both the same age, kind of the same statute.

The biggest difference between Deborah and Teresa's cases was the cause of death. An editorial published in the Northwest Florida Daily News stated it was likely a 38 caliber Ruger or Smith & Wesson that killed Teresa. But here's what's interesting. A blurb I found on the Emerald Coast Crimestoppers website about Teresa says that in addition to her gunshot wound, she also had blunt force trauma to the back of her head. And like the scene near Deborah's body, stuff was littered about near Teresa's remains.

There was also a portable record player found nearby her with the initials R.A. on it, which were obviously not Teresa's initials. They also found a soda bottle and a pack of cigarettes scattered around her. And the similarities between the cases made detectives wonder if they had a killer on the loose in Ocaloosa County targeting young women. And if they were connected, the killer wasn't stopping. Because get this, just five-ish months after Teresa's murder, in May 1974, a 15-year-old girl hitchhiked a ride with a man just down the road in nearby Chalamard,

basically just on the other side of the Air Force base from where Debra and Teresa's crime scenes were. When she got picked up, the man who picked her up reportedly offered this girl $50 for sex. She refused and was able to escape his car, but as she was fleeing, the man shot her. Now, this teenager miraculously survived, and ballistics testing showed that the bullet she was shot with matched the one that killed Teresa. And not just the same type of caliber, investigators believe that it was shot

from the exact same gun. According to Investigator Henderson, the suspect in that attempted sexual assault and shooting was described as a black man between 40 and 50 who was driving a full-size dark-colored car which, based on description alone, couldn't have been Donald, who we know to be white. And as far as law enforcement knows, there was never a 38 Ruger or Smith & Wesson registered to Donald either.

According to a story in the Pensacola News Journal published in November 1974, almost a year after Teresa's murder, they did arrest someone and they charged him on suspicion of Teresa's murder and that shooting of the 15-year-old girl. That someone wasn't Donald, by the way. It was an Air Force sergeant. But the whole thing ended up fizzling out pretty quickly. Police ended up releasing the man a month later, citing an air in evidence, so they were right back to square one on who could have killed Teresa. And it became even more questionable if her case was actually connected to Deborah's, whose case got labeled inactive that year by FDLE.

Plus, authorities had yet another investigation they had to turn their attention to. In July 1975, 19-year-old Lynn Pyatt had signs of attempted sexual assault but was then beaten unconscious and left to drown in the shallow waters of an isolated beach on Ocaloosa Island. Lynn, a Tennessee resident, was there on vacation with friends, and she was attacked when she went for a solo walk on the beach. She was found by a passerby, nude, her hands bound on the shore about 20 feet from the water. Now because Lynn was found on a strip of beach that is technically federal land tied to Eglin Air Force Base, the FBI got involved

from the beginning. But I imagine rumors had to have been swirling yet again about the possibility of a serial perpetrator. First Debra, then Teresa, then this 15-year-old who survived her attack, and now another teen girl attacked in broad daylight in Ocaloosa County. I mean, the similarities were striking. Debra, Teresa, and Lynn were all 19. They were all seemingly targets for sexual assault. The locations were all within miles of each other.

Just two years separated the cases. I mean, the differences were the actual causes of death. Deborah, trauma to her head, Teresa, gunshot, and Lynn, technically drowned, but she also had blunt force trauma. So blunt force trauma to the head played a part in all three cases. As if four unsolved attacks weren't enough for Ocaloosa County, just over a month after Lynn's murder, in August of 75, 37-year-old Catherine Ainsworth

was sexually assaulted and strangled inside her Niceville apartment. Now, I'm not trying to necessarily lump all of these cases together to tell you that they're connected, but for years, all of them stayed unsolved, and they were each demanding resources from many of the same investigative agencies.

So when nothing happened, they sat basically untouched until March of 1981, when the Ocaloosa County Sheriff's Office decided to reopen 10 of their unsolved cases. I kind of toot our agency's horn here and just say this a little bit. A lot of times with these cold cases, they will do what's called fresh eyes, and they will assign it to a new investigator who can maybe see something that was missed.

But that's one of the things they've always done. I've been here 23 years, and it seems like they've always put fresh eyes on these cases. Even though they put fresh eyes on Deborah's case, nothing really resulted from the official reopening. By the 90s, when DNA testing started to become a thing, detectives resubmitted all of the evidence that they'd collected in Deborah's case. But nothing useful came of it. And her file was shelved again, waiting for new eyes or new leads. That is, until sometime before 2002, when Deborah's mom said that a plain clothes officer knocked on her door and said that Ted Bundy had confessed to murdering her daughter. My mother-in-law called us and she said, there's been an officer from Okalusia County just come to my house and said that Ted Bundy confessed to Debbie's murder.

And my husband and I asked her, well, who was it, Mom? You know, Mrs. Espy, who was it? Oh, I don't know, just some officer from Okalusia County. And when I called later to check on it myself, the Ocalista County Sheriff's Department told me, ma'am, I don't know where your mother-in-law got that idea, but no, Ted Bundy did not confess to your sister-in-law's murder.

And we don't even know who it would have been that would have went out there to done it, to tell her something like that. So Debra's mom said this man with a badge told her that right before Ted Bundy's execution, when he was confessing to a bunch of his crimes, he had apparently confessed to killing Debra. But the department had no record of sending out a detective, and they confirmed that Bundy never confessed to Debra's murder. But it seems like they never really pursued where this confusion came from. Whether this was some misinformed officer, or an investigator trying to give her mom some peace, or someone posing as an officer for who knows what reason.

I mean, they had no idea. Once the Ted Bundy rumors died down, so did any updates in Deborah's case. But new leads did come in 2012. That's when the Emerald Coast Crimestoppers got a couple of tips about a man serving a life sentence from a 1999 kidnapping and sexual battery case. Now this wasn't their first suspect Donald, but detectives at the time jumped to see if there was any validity to this tip. And I guess there wasn't.

Investigator Henderson couldn't tell us a whole lot about that tip because she wasn't assigned to Deborah's case back then. She just knows that it didn't go anywhere. Now that same year in August, one of the 1970s era cases did get solved. DNA from a rug found at the apartment of Katherine Ainsworth, the woman who was killed inside her Niceville apartment. That DNA linked to a man who had been stationed

at Eglin Air Force Base in 1975. His name was William P. Rouse, and according to an article in The Ledger, he died in 2006. We asked Investigator Henderson if Rouse had ever been considered in Deborah's case, and she didn't think he had been, but said that she'd look into it. And the same for Teresa's case. Now, the following year, detectives resubmitted evidence again in hopes that by 2013, technology would be advanced enough to find something new.

But again, the evidence was still too degraded to be useful. It wasn't until 2016 that Investigator Henderson was assigned to Deborah's case, and she was ready to bring her fresh eyes and a new perspective to this case and finally crack it. Well, Ms. Henderson's been one of the longest investigators to hold that case. Having a cold case for that long can be both good and bad. It's good because you're familiar with the case, you build rapport with the family. But ultimately, the longer you have it, it means the longer it goes without being solved

and that can be frustrating. But that didn't stop Investigator Henderson from looking into every tip that came in for Deborah's case. In 2018, three tips came in about a guy that they might want to look into, but no one really gave any details about who this guy was and the tips didn't turn out to be very helpful. Investigator Henderson finally just got tired of waiting for half-baked tips to come through, and in 2019, she decided to show up at Donald's home, where he now lived in Alabama. Fortunately for him, he and his wife were away in the Philippines,

but his son was mowing the yard when Investigator Henderson arrived, and he actually called his dad for her, and she talked to him right there in Donald's own driveway. Bit of a power move. So the first phone conversation, he obviously made mention that he knew Deborah, almost made it sound like they were more friendly than what we were initially told in the investigation,

that they actually were friends, and why would I ever hurt my friend? I want nothing but the best for her. I was trying to help law enforcement throughout this investigation. But then he also said that he made some spontaneous statements as far as the law enforcement was planning evidence when they did a vehicle search of his vehicle. They were planning evidence in hopes that they would get to be able to put his DNA at the scene. So he made that accusation. He also just made statements.

He said, you have to remember I was a 19-year-old depressed boy just looking for friends, and I am a nine or 10-year-old boy trapped in a 67-year-old man's body. Something's not adding up. I also spoke to him about the other case that happened in 1973, who he completely denied knowing even the name. Yet there was an interview with him in that case as well at the time, and he very well knew who that was.

So he was not being truthful, clearly. And then that was all on the phone. Donald agreed to talk to her again. And in June 2020, she showed back up at his house unannounced. I just asked him if he remembered Deborah. He said that she was one of the few friends that I had. So you know, before it was they were kind of acquaintances. And then later on in the investigation, he's trying to say that they were

closer than what we have reason to believe. He went on to say you quote from him, you treasure friends, you don't hurt them. He's kind of stayed that in the middle of our conversation. And then he kind of goes back to regurgitating what he remembers saying to the FDLE agent back when all this was first coming out. And basically it was his theory. You remember his theory, right? The one that pretty much explained Deborah's exact injuries. He still thought that's what happened to her.

Later on, we go back in person and it's still, he regurgitates a lot of what he said. I did specifically ask him about the polygraph because on all of our records it showed that he failed it. regurgitates a lot of what he said. I did specifically ask him about the polygraph because on all of our records it showed that he failed it and he told me he intentionally did things to manipulate two questions that were asked. One in which, did you kill Debra? I asked Donald why he would intentionally attempt to manipulate the polygraph and he replied by saying, I was curious. So I bit my tongue before answering questions. I also did a little twitch with my mouth. Donald stated he believes he intentionally manipulated two questions,

but then said, I definitely lied on one. I asked Donald if he remembered which two questions he manipulated and he said he did not. Now he did tell me in the phone conversation that one of them was if he was responsible for killing Debra. I cannot recall what the second one was. I did ask him if he would be willing to submit to another polygraph, and he told me no.

He did agree that he would speak with me in person at a later time. That meeting never happened, and Investigator Henderson was left with so many questions. Another thing that never turned up was Donald's DNA. He would never willingly submit his DNA to investigators past or present, so even if they found something from all of the resubmissions, they couldn't compare it to him. Every time they got close to pinning him down, they just never had enough to charge him with a crime that they were pretty sure he committed. In 2023, Investigator Henderson and the squad met up for a strategizing session on how they could bring charges on Donald with only circumstantial evidence.

We had this assistant state attorney in there with us because I'm like, it's circumstantial all day. I get it. 73 to now our evidence is just it's just not there. What we had seized, collected, it's just it's just degraded. And I said but at what point can we just go ahead and try to move forward on this because he has been number one person of interest suspect from day one. Everything is still lining up for him. You know yeah he went and had a career and retired but everything points back to him. You know, is it circumstantial enough to be able to move forward? And that's kind of where we were at of what we should do to try to wrap this up in a boat,

so to speak. And that's when we learned that he had passed away. Yep. Donald passed away in a car accident in February 2023. He was 70 years old. He had no recorded criminal record, just a successful 20-year military career. He did leave his DNA all over the airbag

and steering wheel from the crash, though. So detectives finally got that sample that they'd been trying to get for a long time. We were able to get the main suspect's DNA. We sent that as well as the loading that was originally seized from the scene for comparison. So far, we're just not there. The evidence that we have is still degraded.

We still have a list of evidence to go back through to see if there's something else that we could choose that would be comparable to the suspect's DNA. We are also still pretty regularly getting tips on this case. And so although we have a main suspect and that main suspect is deceased, we are still looking at the other tips coming in to further investigate those tips

and to rule out anybody that's coming in still. Donald was never a main suspect in Teresa's case, but that doesn't mean that they completely ruled him out. And now it seems that Teresa and Deborah's cases could be linked because when a tip comes in for one, detectives look at it for both women. And in September of last year, another tip came in about another potential lead,

and detectives are following up with it just in case. But that's all they could share with us for now. That's where the case stands today. When our reporter spoke to Deborah, she wasn't aware that Donald was deceased. But this was her message for him. would be, well sir, I'm not accusing you of it, but you know you have raised a family, you've got grandchildren. My sister-in-law didn't even have a chance to even have a boyfriend or even get married. She didn't even get to know none of her nieces and nephews and I'm glad that you had the life that you've had.

But sir, I know if you did it, you're suffering in your own way inside. And I can understand why you don't want to go to prison or go to jail, because you'd be giving up your family. But just think, if you were the one to done it, well, you really belong, you belong in prison. You've got a family. My sister-in-law did not get a family." Detectives aren't giving up on Debra. While her family has come to terms with what happened over 50 years ago, it doesn't mean that detectives won't continue to fight to bring Debra justice. Even though Donald is a pseudonym, if you know who he was and were close to him,

close enough for him to confide in you, or if you ever heard him confess to any crimes, investigators want you to come forward. If you knew Debra back then and she shared any concerns with you before her murder, detectives also want to know that. Or if you know about something else completely unrelated to what we've talked about but is important to Debra's case, they want to hear that too. You can contact Emerald Coast Crimestoppers at 850-863-8477. That's 850-863-TIPS. You will remain completely anonymous. Other ways to submit a tip will be in the blog post for this episode. You can find that at Thedeckpodcast.com.

The Deck is an AudioChuck production with theme music by Ryan Lewis. To learn more about The Deck and our advocacy work, visit thedeckpodcast.com. So what do you think, Chuck? Do you approve?