The Deck - Lola Katherine “Kathy” Fry (3 of Clubs, Indiana)

Episode Date: March 27, 2024

Our card this week is Lola Katherine “Kathy” Fry, the 3 of Clubs from Indiana. 28-year-old Lola, AKA Kathy, Kat, or Lolabee, as her family lovingly called her, was excited for a fresh start just before the holidays in 1993. She’d just left her job at an Indianapolis nightclub and was wrapping up the process of moving two hours northeast of Fort Wayne to live with her older sister. Kathy was planning to take her life down a new road and go back to school, maybe start a family.But before she could ever make good on those plans… something happened. Though, the specifics of what exactly that something was is still something we are trying to piece together today.If you have any information about the disappearance of Lola Katherine “Kathy” Fry in November of 1993, please call the Indiana State Police at [phone], or you can provide an anonymous tip by calling Crime Stoppers at (317) 262-TIPS (8477).If you or someone you know is a victim of domestic violence, please know that resources are available. You can reach out to the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-799-7233 or text “START” to 88788.View source material and photos for this episode at: thedeckpodcast.com/lola-katherine-kathy-fry Let us deal you in… follow The Deck on social media.Instagram: @thedeckpodcast | @audiochuckTwitter: @thedeckpodcast_ | @audiochuckFacebook: /TheDeckPodcast | /audiochuckllcTo apply for a Cold Case Playing Card grant through Season of Justice, please visit www.seasonofjustice.org. The Deck is hosted by Ashley Flowers. Instagram: @ashleyflowersTikTok: @ashleyflowerscrimejunkieTwitter: @Ash_FlowersFacebook: /AshleyFlowers.AF Text Ashley at [phone] to talk all things true crime, get behind the scenes updates, and more!

Our card this week is Lola, Katherine, Kathy Fry, the three of clubs from Indiana. 28-year-old Lola, aka Kathy Cat or Lola B as her family loved calling her, was excited for a fresh start just before the holidays in 1993. She just left her job at an Indianapolis nightclub and was wrapping up the process of moving two hours northeast to Fort Wayne to live with her older sister. Kathy was planning to take her life down a new road and go back to school and maybe start a family. But before she could ever make good on those plans, something happened, though the specifics

of what exactly that something was is still something we're trying to piece together today. Three decades is a long time, plenty of time for the truth to come to light. But with Kathy's case, so much has come to light that it's like a sick twisted game of two truths and a lie. Or I guess one truth and a dozen lies. Because the theories, rumors, and allegations that have clouded the investigation are almost too many to count. But those closest to the case are convinced that somewhere within all that muddiness lies the answer to what really happened to Kathy in the wee morning hours of November 14, 1993.

I'm Ashley Flowers, and this is the deck. The workday hadn't quite yet begun for Darlene Pitts on a chilly November Monday in 1993. It was around 8.30 in the morning, so Darlene was at work, November Monday in 1993. It was around 8 30 in the morning, so Darlene was at work, kind of hanging out at a friend's desk, sipping her morning coffee. And that's when she got a call from her mom, Delphia. Her mom had a sense of urgency in her voice, and she asked if Darlene had heard from her youngest sister, Kathy. Darlene said no, she hadn't, but you know, nothing unusual about that. Darlene and Cathy were close, I mean, don't get me wrong, but they just didn't chat on a daily basis. Cathy did, however, talk to her mom on the phone every single day, up to four times a day sometimes. So when Darlene learns that mom can't get a hold of her, hasn't been able to get a hold of her for a few days,

well, that's concerning. Especially because their mom Delphia had had a stroke many years prior, so Kathy and her other sister, Laverne, had stepped in as her caregivers to nurse their mom back to health. And they did a fantastic job. She had made an impressive recovery, which meant that Kathy was no longer the full-time caregiver. But unfortunately, Delphia still suffered from complications, so naturally Kathy kept tabs on her mom, would even go over in person to check on her regularly. So all that to say, at this point in time, it was totally understandable for Delphia to be

deeply concerned about her nearly 30-year-old baby girl, even if she wasn't a baby anymore. But still, Darlene tried to calm her nerves. I said, maybe she just needs a break. She's there every day. I said, she might have just taken a little bit of a break. But Delphia wasn't convinced. Even if Kathy, for some reason, did need a break, there was something else that didn't add up.

Like I mentioned earlier, Kathy was in the process of moving from Indianapolis to Fort Wayne to live with her sister Laverne. On Friday, she left Laverne's place in Fort Wayne to go get one more car full of her belongings and hang out with some friends in Indy. She told Laverne that she'd be back Sunday morning, except Delphia had already called Laverne and she hadn't seen or heard from Kathy since Friday either. Delphia knew this wasn't like Kathy. She goes, well, she was supposed to be here and I haven't heard from her much because I'm really worried about her.

I know something's happened. And deep down, Darlene knew it too. And I remember sitting there after I hung up with her, if mom's worried then there's probably something to be worried about. The day came and went and no one heard from Kathy. Same with the next day, and the next, and the next. Finally, on Thursday, November 18th, her family decided enough was enough, and they officially reported her missing.

At first, things were slow. I mean, police had to confirm Kathy was actually missing before going full boots on the ground. And one of the first to confirm Kathy was actually missing before going full boots on the ground. And one of the first things they did was to check her bank account to see if there had been any activity. There hadn't. Her account hadn't been touched for days, in fact, and she still had plenty of money in there, so it wasn't like she drained her account and then high-tailed it out of town. So that alone was enough to kick things into the next gear. Investigators began talking to those who knew Kathy best, and they learned that on the night of November 13th, which was the last day anyone had heard from Kathy, she was hanging out with

her ex-boyfriend, John Riker. Which, I know right away sounds like a red flag, but police were told that they'd been broken up for a few months at that point and were actually on good terms again. Still, of course, police wanted to speak with him because it seemed like he might have been one of the last people to see Kathy. When they tracked him down, John told police that he and Kathy had been together the whole night of November 13th and into the early morning hours of the 14th. The two of them had gotten some drinks at a local Indianapolis restaurant that Saturday evening but left around 10 p.m. to head to a party. It was easier to just ride together. So Kathy left her Mitsubishi in the parking lot and rode with John in his car to an apartment

complex that was on the northeast side of Indy. The person hosting the party was actually Kathy's hairdresser, Dennis Schaefer, who most people knew by the name Joe. Along with Kathy and John, Joe had also invited a few other people to the party — Joe's brother, Timothy Schaeffer, and their respective boyfriends, Steve Chaffee and Samuel Joris Jr. So there were six people in total. John told police that they all spent the evening partying, having a good time, and yeah, if

he's being honest, along with drinking, they were using some drugs too. A little cocaine, pot, even some prescription medication. After a while, they made their way downtown, where they hit up some clubs and partied some more. And then around 4 a.m., they all made their way back to Joe's apartment, where they drank and did some more drugs. John said it was around 5 a.m. when he and Kathy were ready to turn in for the night — or day, I guess. He said he drove her the 15 minutes back to the restaurant to pick up her car, and then Kathy followed him back to his place in Greenwood,

which is just south of Indianapolis, about 20 minutes from the restaurant where she'd parked. John said as soon as they got to his place, they both just hit the hay. But they didn't get much shut-eye, because around 7.30 that morning, John got a call from an employee of his who needed John to come to work and unlock the door for him. I guess John was the only one who could actually do that. Now that call woke Kathy up too, and she said since she was up, she was just going to get ready and take off for Fort Wayne. When John returned to his apartment about an hour later, he claimed that Kathy was gone, and then he said he hadn't heard from her or seen her since.

Now John's story was backed up when they spoke with Joe and Steve, or at least the parts that could be when they were all together. Police did their best not to get tunnel vision, they were considering all possibilities and not labeling anyone a suspect at this point. But the fact that they backed up John's story also meant that two more people put John alone with Kathy before she seemingly vanished. So they asked John to come down to the station for a polygraph, and believe it or not, he agreed. I'll let a voice actor read what the detective wrote about that polygraph.

On December 29, 1993, John Riker consented to and was administered an Indiana State Police polygraph test. During the test, John Riker was asked, did you kill Lola Frye? And did you cause Lola Frye to be missing? John Riker responded, no to both questions. The polygraph examiner's report indicated that John Riker was not completely truthful and in the examiner's opinion, John Riker did in fact kill Lola Frye, or he has some relevant knowledge as to Lola Frye's whereabouts. Now we know you can't use polygraphs in a court of law, but you can use them to help

direct an investigation, and all signs were now pointing in John's direction. So police began digging in more. Sure, they heard they were on good enough terms now, I mean good enough to grab a drink and hang out, but what about before? And that was the right question to ask, because police learned about a recent run-in Cathy had with John at her workplace. I guess John had shown up at a club where Cathy was a dancer and caused a bit of a scene arguing with Kathy. And things escalated to the point that the bouncer had to step in and kick John out. But apparently after being thrown out, John tried to come back inside with a gun.

Now he was unsuccessful at that point with whatever he was trying to do, but I mean, dude showed up with a gun. That is not a good sign when that person you tried to get to with a gun is now missing." Investigators weren't the only ones growing suspicious of John. Kathy's family was also realizing that something didn't quite add up. Darlene told our reporting team

that in the immediate aftermath of Kathy's disappearance, many of her family members, including herself, spoke with John, and he was giving them each a different story. Now, what those different stories were, Darlene says she can't remember, but she recalled the discrepancies immediately rubbing them all the wrong way. And only adding to their suspicions was John's lack of effort to help the family in any capacity. He wasn't calling, asking how things were going, or offering to help search for her. Nothing.

If you were really that concerned about your ex-girlfriend, you'd be there helping us, and he wasn't helping us. But the mere suspicion surrounding John wasn't enough to pin him as a suspect. In fact, at this point, police didn't even know if there was a suspect. State police detective Ron Bruce told the Daily Journal that he didn't have any reason to suspect foul play, except that she hadn't been in contact with her family, which was out of the ordinary. With each week and month that dragged by, the more out of the ordinary it became. Cathy's family was sure that something sinister had to have happened to her, and they were outright

convinced of it by April of 1994, when Kathy's license plate expired and then was never renewed. Of course, at this point, five months into things, without her bank accounts touched, without that valid license plate for her missing car, and the fact that her car had never been so much as spotted, it all made the truth of what happened to Kathy harder to ignore, even for investigators, especially after they learned that Kathy had disappeared at a time that was nothing short of convenient for a certain someone.

Police learned that at the time of Kathy's disappearance, she was deep in a lawsuit in which she was the plaintiff. You see, in 1990, three years prior, Kathy had received breast augmentation surgery that was paid for by her employer, Brad's Gold Club, where she was a dancer. Now, unfortunately, Kathy was suffering from complications brought on by the procedure, so she was suing the doctor who performed it, Dr. Charles E. Hughes III. And she wasn't the only one. Several others were doing the same, and also suing Brad Hurst, the club's owner, because he was trying to force them to work exclusively for his clubs after the surgery. Okay, now remember, by all accounts, November 14th was the last day that Kathy was seen. And wouldn't you know it, she was scheduled to give the final deposition in this lawsuit November 15th.

As if that wasn't sketchy enough, Darlene said that after Kathy was unable to give the final deposition, you know, on account of the fact that she was missing, the doctor actually countersued her, knowing full well she was a missing person. Now, I don't know how much investigators looked into this whole lawsuit angle. All I could find is that the community shopper reported police followed this lead to a dead end. Now, it is worth noting that none of the other dancers suing the doctor or Brad ended up missing mysteriously. And although it's been noting that none of the other dancers suing the doctor or Brad ended up missing mysteriously.

And although it's been reported that the other plaintiffs dropped their suits, Darlene thinks that they actually got paid out. So after police ran that lead down, things were again pretty stagnant. Detective Bruce checked every month to see if Kathy's car had been salvaged or taken to a junkyard, but nothing turned up. He was also regularly checking in with other states to see if her car had been salvaged or taken to a junkyard, but nothing turned up. He was also regularly checking in with other states to see if her car had been registered there, but again, nothing. And while police had their fears and suspicions about Kathy's real fate, outwardly they were

holding fast to the party line. Detective Bruce told the Indianapolis News, quote, "...it's kind of at a standstill. There's no new leads, no new information to pursue, there is no evidence of foul play. The family, I guess, has just got to hold out hope." End quote. But there was a sign of more concern in this statement than the ones before it. The article expounded on what Detective Bruce considered the most confusing part of the case for him, which was that Kathy's car hadn't turned up somewhere. I mean, it's possible for a human to disappear, but a whole car?

He said those usually leave a paper trail, and that didn't exist for Kathy's car. Detective Bruce was being really honest. Kathy's case was at a standstill, and no one took it harder than Kathy's family, and their faith in law enforcement was waning. So they started looking into alternative methods of finding their Cathy, like offering a $5,000 reward, holding a benefit in Cathy's name, and even consulting psychics. Now sometimes psychics are really vague with their information, like, I see a red bar, and I see flowing water. I mean, for some reason, it's always water.

It's honestly almost always stuff that's difficult to look into. But there was actually one medium in particular that gave Kathy's family somewhere specific to look. This big green bridge on the city's far north side. And they said, when you see it, it'll be a string. They tied her in this great big like, tart thing, a plastic bag tart, and they tied it with a wire, like a lamp wire on the end. So Laverne and I went,

we go down underneath the bridge. We don't have shovels or nothing, but we're gonna go look just to put it out of our minds to say we went and looked. We go down there and looking, and we're walking around, and guess what we see? A trash bag with a wire tied around the end of it in the ground.

I had to learn what I'm going to do if that's really her. I said, well, we're going to dig her up. We just got these great big sticks and started digging until we got that thing pulled out of the ground. And we were there a long time. The anticipation of since they said that and we've seen that there was horrible. But that horrible experience didn't bring them answers or even any closer to answers. And it was a bag of clothes.

They weren't kids clothes. You know, it makes you wonder if that person had been down underneath that bridge or something. It was a heartbreaking brick wall of a dead end. But Kathy's family kept pressing on. They began hiring private detectives, one of whom who ended up working the case for years and years, P.I. Don Johnson. And Don's the real deal. He's a certified legal investigator, and he'd been in the P.I. business for 10 years at

that point. And before that, he was a military intelligence analyst. Now any crime junkie knows that P.I.s and police often don't usually mix well. They can butt heads. But not Don Johnson. He told our reporting team that he actually started working kind of alongside police. He offered to chase down leads that they didn't have the bandwidth to look into, and they took him up on his offer. There were some potential sightings of Kathy's car in the Indianapolis area that needed to be vetted.

It wasn't just the bright red sedan that some people said they remembered spotting, but her specific personalized license plate that read Lola, the one that hadn't been renewed. Anyway, Don started running down those sightings, but they were hard to verify or really do anything with. I mean, one person recalled seeing the car in the parking lot of a nursing home, and then two other people saw the car on an interstate sometime that year. So as you can expect, nothing came from those tips. But Don stayed on the case for a few years, through the 90s. But eventually, the family's P.I. money ran out, and Don couldn't stay on for free. Though that wasn't the end of the line, because

Kathy's family was determined it wouldn't be. According to the Indy Star, in 1999, Kathy's sister Laverne called up the state police to get an update on Kathy's case and where the investigation stood, only to be told that the case actually wasn't currently assigned to a new detective. Which is so hard for me to imagine hearing. I know so many families who don't want to nag or be a bother because they think that it's in the right hands and when something happens, the police will come to them. But due to staffing issues and caseloads and especially a lack of digitized records, it happens all too often that detectives move

through the department and cases change hands and many fall to the side or through the cracks altogether. With everything Kathy's family has been through, finding out that their missing sister's case has just been forgotten was a huge blow. I mean, I can only imagine the words that were had between the family and the state police after that discovery. But their call did get things back on track. Before the year was over, the case was assigned to an investigator, Detective William Vann. He actually volunteered to take the case on. And what he was about to discover would bring new life back into the investigation.

And it would challenge everything investigators had been told. Now, things get a bit muddy here. We spoke with the current Indiana State Police detective on Kathy's case, but ISP has a policy that they won't discuss ongoing investigations, so they weren't able to tell us much of anything. But this is what we pieced together from some records that we were able to obtain. As part of looking at the investigation with fresh eyes,

Detective Van took a long, hard look at the people who were allegedly the last to see her. Here is a voice actor reading from a search affidavit. We've edited them only for clarity. I interviewed Tim Schafer. During the interview I asked him if Lola Frye overdosed and died in Dennis Schafer's apartment at the time he was there. Tim Schafer's initial response was, oh no. I mean, I don't know. I don't think so. Not that I know of. No, no, not at all." After further questioning, Tim stated that he began to feel like he had been in a situation like that, but not aware of it fully due to him being asleep and high on prescription medication.

Tim stated that maybe his ears picked up on things while he was asleep, and it seemed like he heard somebody say, "...well, damn it, she overdosed. He went on to explain that he remembered someone getting sick and throwing up in the bathroom, and it sounded like a female. Tim stated Steve Chaffee had to force his way into the bathroom because a body was lying against the door, and then someone was being carried down the hallway and put into a bedroom. Tim later stated that he remembered seeing someone lying on the living room floor cocooned

up in a blanket with only a little bit of curly hair showing at the top and feet at the bottom. He stated that somebody could've laid Lola Fry there and prepared to take her out. Tim stated that Steve Chaffee was getting upset and emotional and Dennis Schaeffer was telling him to shut up, that it was not their fault and everything was going to be okay. Here's what Detective Van heard from another partygoer. I interviewed Steve Chaffee. During the interview, Steve confirmed that he did in fact find Lola Fry's unconscious

body in the bathroom. Steve stated that he dragged her body out by the armpits and put her on the living room floor with a blanket on her. Steve stated that nobody checked her pulse or anything to confirm her status, and that she could have been dead or passed out. He stated that Lola Fry never regained consciousness from the time he took her out of the bathroom. Steve stated that the only portion of any plan that he could remember was John Riker stating he would get Lola Fry back to his house in Greenwood, and she would be okay, and her car would be taken care of later. Steve stated he thinks John Riker, Tim Schafer, and Dennis Schafer took Lola Frey from the

apartment and put her in John Riker's vehicle. Shortly after those interviews, police asked John to come in for another polygraph. He did, and just like last time, the polygraph examiner found that he wasn't telling the complete truth. Particularly with his answers to the questions, was Lola Fry physically carried from Dennis Schaeffer's apartment? And, did Lola Fry die in Dennis Schaeffer's apartment? Both of which he answered no to. So that was officially the second failed polygraph. And that, combined with what Tim and Steve said, police knew they had to take action.

And what better way to do that than a search for physical evidence? Police ended up executing a search warrant on John's house in Greenwood. Now, this is the same place that he lived back in 93. And they were searching for anything that could possibly point to Kathy or her car. But after all was said and done, they didn't find anything that could directly relate to her case. Even still, police wanted to see if they had enough to press charges against John or any of the guys. Now, I don't have much information on this, but according to The Daily Journal, a couple of witnesses were sent to testify in front of a grand jury. But ultimately,

they concluded that there wasn't enough yet to file any charges. Based on what we know from Darlene, one of those witnesses was Tim, but I don't know who the other or others were. After that grand jury disappointment, Vann stayed on the case, checking out reports of unidentified human remains in the area and seeing if they were a match for Kathy's dental records. But, time after time, none of them were. But in the midst of this, they'd gotten a hot tip indicating that Kathy's body might be at a property on the city's far south side.

The weirdest part? That property was linked to an the city's far south side. The weirdest part? That property was linked to an outlaw's motorcycle gang associate. What Kathy's affiliation was with the gang, or what affiliation any of the men she was with had, I don't know if there was any affiliation at all. But I know police also got an inkling that another missing woman might be buried on that same property too. Shannon Turner, the girlfriend of the outlaw's enforcer who'd vanished in 1997.

So investigators got busy searching the property. They brought out the big guns too. We're talking cadaver dogs, ground penetrating radar. But to everyone's disappointment, they found zero evidence pointing toward Shannon being there or Kathy. I mean, nothing at all. It was a total dead end. But that was hardly the last search they'd do. Because just over six months later, they were at it again. Kathy's family asked police to search a retention pond in White River Township, which is south

of Indianapolis proper and directly west of Greenwood, where John lived. Darlene told us John's ex-wife lived across the street from that pond and that's what spurred interest in searching it. So police agreed and got to work. According to the Daily Journal, the pond was 12 feet deep and offered almost zero visibility. So I can only imagine the surprise when scuba divers found something, something very large,

like a whole vehicle large. I have to believe that for a split moment they thought the answers to a decade-old case were there at their fingertips. That feeling was fleeting, though. Because when the divers got a closer look, it was clear this vehicle wasn't Cathy's 1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse. This was a truck. A 1990 full-sized Chevy truck that had been

reported stolen from White River Township in 1996, so not related to Kathy's case by any stretch of the imagination. And yet another frustrating dead end. In the midst of all these fruitless searches, an already rocky relationship between investigators and family started to sour. Detective Van told the Indy star, quote, At times they have felt I was a great detective, and other times they have bricked me over the coals. I am not going to run around blind and let them lead me by the nose and be their private investigator.

But the family was getting tired of waiting for answers to just fall in their laps. So they tried to get things moving on their own. In 2006, they announced a $100,000 reward for information leading to a conviction of the people responsible for Kathy's disappearance, or information leading to the recovery of her remains. But even with all that dough on the table, crickets. And after that, things quieted down again for a while, but not forever.

Because a few years ago, Darlene decided it was high time to look into someone who had so far been on the outskirts of the investigation. Jeff Schaeffer, the brother of Joe and Timothy Schaeffer. Now, whether he was at the party at Joe's apartment is kind of in dispute. According to police documents, he wasn't. But Darlene says Jeff was there all right. I'll get to why she believes that so deeply in a minute. But whether he really was or was not,

two of his brothers were. So what were the chances he didn't know something? Darlene had already tried to confront Jeff. She went to his house in Hope, Indiana, which is about an hour southeast of Indianapolis, but it was clear he wasn't open to visitors. He had no trespassing signs all in front of the porch. Had them on his post on his house, on his bench, on every tree, all the way up the driveway. So at that time, Darlene threw in the towel. But she left more convinced than ever that there was a reason he didn't want anyone

on his property. When she got word that Jeff had passed away, Darlene felt like this was finally her chance to find Kathy. She was convinced that her sister had been buried on Jeff's property, a secret that, even if taken to the grave, leaves behind some physical evidence. Darlene was hopeful whoever owned his place at this point would be more open to a visit than Jeff. And wouldn't you know it, when Darlene arrived at Jeff's old place, she was greeted by a lovely couple who were happy to let her take a look around.

And I said, I don't mean to spook you by this stuff, I just want to really find her. He said, no, that's okay. He says, but now that you're talking, you know, we found something odd about the house. And I'm like, well, what? He said, they dug a hole in the kitchen floor, a cellar, right in the middle of the kitchen floor. I said, are you kidding? He said, no, I'm fixing to show it to you.

They did, in fact, show her the cellar. It was underneath the kitchen table, accessible through a hatch-like door. And there it was, hand-dug, right in the middle of the kitchen. The couple said that when they bought the house, it was just that, literally a big hole in the ground under the house, no frills or anything. They dressed it up with some cinder blocks, cement, and shelving, but when they'd bought it, it was, again, just a hole in the ground. So Darlene asked the couple if she could get some people out there to search the property,

and they gave the go-ahead. The guy even said he'd do the digging if they could pinpoint where. So a group of professionals with sonar equipment and cadaver dogs came out, and wouldn't you know it, they got a hit. The sonar pinged in like two or three spots. But right on the corner of the deck where the seller is at, there's a big tree with a lot of roots. The owner, he dug and dug and dug.

And he said, how far do you want me to dig? I said, I don't want you to tear up your whole yard. Just go a little bit more, a little bit more. And then you just wonder how far are you going to go? But you couldn't go further that way to the roots. So now we're going underneath the deck, which that's where the cellar is. And the dog gets peened on that corner of the house.

So at some point we decided to stop. And I felt guilty stopping, but I felt guilty making them tear up this whole yard. Years later, Darlene decided to return to Hope, Indiana. But this time, she wanted to chat with Brian Schieffer, the father of Tim, Joe, and Jeff. She went to his house, and he was very willing to speak with her. But when Darlene showed him a flyer of Kathy, Brian teared up and recounted a story from years ago while the whole grand jury thing was going on.

Brian said that he was driving his son Tim to give his testimony, and Tim handed him his keys and said that he'd be going away for a long time. Brian then started talking to Darlene about other possibilities of what happened to Kathy, like maybe she was still alive somewhere. But then get this, mid-talk, who shows up but Tim, in the flesh? Darlene was nervous, but she said she confronted him, saying that she knew something happened that night. She didn't know what, but she told him she'd never stop looking for her sister. Never would. She confronted him about what his dad said he said on the

way to the grand jury. And Tim didn't deny it, but he didn't confirm it either. She says he just cried. Eventually, she says he sat down and told Darlene all of the stuff that he'd said to police. The stuff about being half-passed out, maybe this happened to Kathy, maybe that. All that stuff, he said, police made him say. If that was the case, Darlene said she wanted to know the true version of the story. And Tim agreed to tell her. Tim said he went to a party at Joe's apartment that night. He said Jeff took him there, which

Darlene immediately noted because Tim had told police Jeff wasn't there. But anyways, Tim said that they went to a downtown bar to watch a drag show but then left early because John and Kathy were fighting. He went back to Joe's apartment to get some shut-eye before heading back to Louisville, where he lived at the time. And that was that. Tim said he wanted Darlene and her family to figure out what happened to Kathy just as much as anyone else, but he didn't have any more information that could help her. Darlene said it was an emotional conversation, and while she was grateful for the opportunity

to speak with Tim, she still couldn't help but feel that he was hiding something. What parts of the three different stories he told her are true? That's what Darlene and the rest of Kathy's family is still asking themselves to this day. Are any of them true? And they're hopeful that answers are right around the corner, because just recently ISP put new eyes on the case. Here's Detective Brandon Alberts, who was assigned to the investigation not too long ago.

And he's hopeful, optimistic even, that he can bring the family closure. To solve any cold case would be very rewarding. Not only to bring closure to these families. The family holds on to this for years. I mean, it's been nearly 30 years now. The low has been missing. So any kind of closure that we can bring is definitely rewarding for the families. And not only the families, but rewarding for the detectives that worked this case. We've been through, I believe, four detectives,

three or four now, on this case. And when detectives retire, they take the case with them. So any closure I can bring to the families or the detectives that worked this case or anyone who's involved in the case at all would be very rewarding. Although Kathy's family and law enforcement have experienced tension over the years, Detective Albert says he's grateful for the family's contributions to the investigation. Their efforts have been tremendous. I've kept in pretty constant communication with Darlene.

She'll send me tips and thoughts and things like that, which is great. In an investigation, especially a cold case like this, every tip is welcomed, because it could be that one tip that you think is not important that leads us to something big. So their help has been tremendous.

And family involvement is, it's valuable, very valuable in cold cases like this, because I wasn't there in 1993. I didn't know Lola personally, so it's a very good insight from the family." Unfortunately, some of that family has passed away in three decades since 1993, never getting answers for Kathy's disappearance. Sadly, Kathy's mother, Delphia, is one of those who took their questions with her to the grave. So, in closing, I want to give her a chance to speak.

This is a short poem Delphia wrote in honor of her youngest daughter. You can find it on display at findcatherinefry.com. One chair is missing from the table. And as you always say, "'It's better Lord to add a chair than to take away. One candle stands cold and dark, it cannot be lit. My heart stays cold and dark for I cannot forget.

There's no grave to plant flowers on and water with my tears. I call her name in the night and wonder if she hears. One's missing from the family. She just went away. I stand and wonder where she's at and live from day to day. There is an emptiness within my heart that life can't seem to fill. As long as one is missing,

Lord, I know I never will. Delphia may have passed on, but Kathy's siblings still hold tight to the hope that they'll one day have answers. Not a day goes by that they don't think of their beloved spunky firecracker of a sister Kathy. And they're hopeful that maybe someone listening to this episode can help them bring an end to their three decades long search.

So if that person is you, now's the time to reach out. I mean, past the time to reach out. So please do the right thing. Any tips can be called into NEA State Police at 317-899-8266 or anyone can provide an anonymous tip to a crime stopper, which is 317-262-TIPS. And again, they can remain completely anonymous. And we welcome any tip. Kathy was between 5'3 and 5'6. She was 120 pounds with brown hair and green eyes. She has a scar on her right knee and a small scar on her forehead. She drove a 1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse with a vanity plate that read Lola. If you or someone you know is the victim of

domestic violence, please know that resources are available. You can reach out to the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-799-7233 or text START to 88788. I'll include those numbers in the show notes. The Deck is an AudioChuck production with theme music by Ryan Lewis. To learn more about The Deck and our advocacy work, visit thedeckpodcast.com. So what do you think, Chuck? Do you approve? Woooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo