The Deep 3 Podcast - It's Time For These NBA Teams To Panic | Ep. 65

Episode Date: December 1, 2023

These NBA teams are failing and the time to panic is here. Check out the TD3 merch: https://the-deep-3-shop.fourthwall.com/ Join the TD3 discord!: https://discord.gg/RUkjpMPp7E Listen on Spotify!: https://open.spotify.com/show/3elbbqVumwqz8wlIdknsLW Listen on Apple Podcasts!: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-deep-3-podcast/id1657940794 ollow us on TikTok!: https://www.tiktok.com/@thedeepthree Follow us on Instagram!: https://www.instagram.com/thedeep3podcast/ Isaac's twitter: https://twitter.com/byisaacg Muhamed's twitter: https://twitter.com/Mojo99_ Donnavan's twitter: https://twitter.com/Dsmoot3D Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

All right, y'all. Today, we're coming with negativity. That's the easiest way I can put it. We're going to talk about NBA teams that are currently failing. Whatever that means for them, you know, there's different standards for different expectations. But we're going to talk about teams that are below expectations and talk about if it's time for them to panic or not. Look, there's one thing about us that y'all already know. We love to hate. It's in our blood. This is what we do. I am actually very, very excited to get all this hate off. I love it. You wake up every day, Doddham, and you'd be like, hmm, what can I hate on today? I got to find something.

I have to find something. Luckily for you, we have plenty of teams to hate on. There's too much glazing in the world, man. Before we get into all this hate, y'all missed out on a generational live stream that we did on Monday. We're going to be live streaming every Monday, 8 p.m. Eastern. All y'all got to tune in. We're going to be last week reacted to you guys as what, hot takes. yeah

and yeah like most said it's gonna be basically a second episode every Monday it was honestly incredibly fun for the first one I if people didn't get to watch it live like most said you missed out

you should go watch the replay I want to hear y'all's comments on what you think about that live versus podcast and like the difference is there and like what you guys liked about it what you guys want to see you do differently because you know it was our first time

live streaming on YouTube so we have a lot left that we're going to change and learn over time donovan showed y'all his post up basketball moves I did a live skims try on a hole. I got a whole bunch. Luckily for you, you can catch us next Monday, 8 p.m. Eastern.

Yeah, live here on YouTube. And also something that you might have missed out on, or not haven't missed that on yet, we're doing a giveaway on Twitter. As soon as we hit 10K followers, we're giving away a PS5. Y'all got us to 5.5K right now. Every episode I shot this out,

we gain a few hundred more, get closer and closer. We'll probably hit 10K around like, I don't know, like February or so. So the faster y'all do it, the faster someone's getting to PS5. All you got to do is follow us. And as soon as we get a 10K,

we're giving away to somebody random. Facts. Housekeeping. Complete. Yeah, man. It's going to do the episode. The cranium is crazy. I'm going to leave that in.

The cranium is crazy. Oh my God. I mean, I don't really don't know what to say. Pray on eaters rejoice. All right, Donovan, what team do you want to talk about first? Who do you think should panic? Listen, you know, I'm going straight from my co-host right here. We're going to talk about the Atlanta Hawks.

And we're going to have a serious conversation about this. Because before the season, both of y'all try to come on here and tell me that the Hawks are going to be much better than the Knicks. You guys were telling me that they were going to be amazing. They were going to be this top four seed all this. Hold on. Right? Much better.

Yeah, much better. The Knicks at 5. Reach from hell. You guys said that the Knicks were going to suck and that we were going to be a lot of team. I heard it. We can run it back. And now here we are about a month into the season, month and some change. And we're going to talk about it because they actually do need a panic.

They are not trending in the right direction. And there's a lot of things going wrong with them. And so like we always do with Hawksda, Mo, from your perspective, as our resident Hawks fan, please tell us, why should your team panic? Or do you think they should because you don't have to agree. That's also true. You could be delusional in saying that y'all don't have to panic. But are you in panic?

You know, that's the question. Are you in panic for the hush? Your drama makes me want to say they shouldn't panic just because you're being so OD about it. You make me want to flip size. Oh, man. As a Hawks fan, like a lot of us are delusional, okay? And we go through different stages, different phases.

And right now, I'm in a phase to where like, you know, we're still a young team. led by a young point guard. But at the same time, we don't have a ton of just like Uber young players who don't know what they're doing or haven't been in the league for several seasons. The only one, the only player on our team who's like, you know what I'm saying? Still relatively new to the league and who's a big part of our organization now is Jalen Johnson and he's hurt. But right now as a Hawks fan, I've just come to accept like, yo, that 2021 one was a fluke.

I hate to admit I was dodging and ducking that. And I'm like, maybe I should just die down my expectations. and come to realization that, like, this team is playing as if they're a bunch of, like, misfits. And if you were to paint a team that is perfectly catered to something like towards something like Troy Young, it is this. If you were to have a coach who could help aid a lot of, yeah, I mean, just when you think of the black and white formula of big wings, people who can shoot, this is the team.

You know what I'm saying? To the best of the ability that they could have built. This is the team, you know? Okay. I mean, you could have some nitpicky arguments or whatever, but in general, like, you can't argue, like, yo, like this roster is ass. It's generally not ass. A lot of players on here are good players and they're productive and shit like that. But right now, I think we should panic.

Number one thing is, like, I think we're having a hard time settling into Quinn Snyder's system. It's very, it's very complicated. And Tray Young plays a simplistic brand of basketball and so does our second best player. on top of that try young is again he's been really inconsistent although over the last few games he's been more consistent than ever um so it's just we don't play any damn defense that's the third thing to me we don't play no damn defense that's what really this tweet in the kill pulled up someone said the exact same thing perfect timing someone said they don't play no fucking defense and that's i'm glad you said that because that's always been a quince-nider thing i think in his

utah jazz days they were a very offensive oriented team despite having me to go bear and they were just like, listen, we're going to load a lot of shooters. D-Mitch is going to run the offense. Rudy, you handle the whole defense. And that Ecos works when you got Rudy Gaubert behind you. Clickapela is not Rudy Gaubert if as good as he is. But real quick, before you live, why are you going to go deeper? Because it's funny.

Because listen, because I'm going to take my, you know, my one-month victory lap. And that and I know right. Congrats. But before we get a, before we let Moe continue to go deeper, we should give people a overview of what the Hawks are at right now. because we didn't fully explain what's causing us I think maybe they should panic. Let's talk about it.

Currently, they're the 10th seed. They're 8 and 9. You know, the Knicks are 10 and 7, so it's a two game difference. Not the biggest in the world given the current standings, you know, like Donovan said, only been a month.

But Jalen Johnson just got hurt and he's going to miss four to six weeks. Jalen Johnson has been, you could argue as high as their second best player this year, definitely in their top three. He's been an integral part of the team of what's made them solid.

They're a top five offense right now, despite being the 25 defense. and a big part of that is Jalen Johnson's emergence. So I think we're all saying maybe they should panic because they're mid right now, middle tier, and they lost a key piece that's going to be out for a while and that could potentially do a big backslide. So that's a big piece of lose.

Yeah. And that's the main reason why for me I'm pressing the panic button for the Hawks because it looks like things are going to get worse before they get better. And like obviously this team is like Tray Young, They're going to ride and die with him and they're only going to go as far as he can take them And right now, Choyang is having his worst shooting season from the field like in his career.

He's below 40% his his volume is like his three point shooting is like fine corrections sorry to cut you off He's 40% Where's he at? Where's he at? He's at 40 exactly All right. Thank God. Yeah, he's out 40%

Listen, no one is a win. He was at 39.3 whenever I checked yeah oh you're right he fell back down after last game you're right thank you thank you thank you so yeah so your lead guard there's a couple problems your league guard is not playing well he's having a lot of five for 14 nights four for 14 nights that type of stuff also the starting lineup is not is not being productive they're starting off games extremely slow their most used lineup is Trey Young, DeJante Murray, Daniel Hunter, Jalen Johnson, Clint Capella. That lineup is minus four, which is in the 32nd percent time.

That's your starting lineup. Your starting lineup is losing minutes. And so, like, again, because you have that, and like Isaac said, your third or second most productive player is going to be out for the next month and a half. Who's going to step up? Who is it that's going to be able to provide that intensity for them? and I don't see anybody filling that role right now. So that's why I'm like, oh, this is, this is going to get bad.

This is going to get kind of ugly. You know, it's tough. In their last, what is it, seven games, they have won two of them. Two and five in the last seven games, which included four straight, three straight losses, two wins and two straight losses. Last one was to Cleveland where they lost by 23, got their backs blown out. In that time, Trey Young is playing like what you kind of would expect from Trey Young before the slump. 27 points per game 10 assist 42% from 3 which is a big turnaround

which you know we probably expected some of rushing to the meme from the 3 point line at least and 43% from the field they're still not winning games but despite you know their biggest issue being fixed for that small sample size still losing a lot more than they're winning Moe why do you think that is

oh man well one of the reasons why I think that is is because we haven't had such an easy schedule now I'm not running to the excuse or whatever, but the truth is a truth, man. They have the fourth-hearted schedule in the league. And these next 15 to 20, I believe, it's more favorable than what we're facing earlier

in the season. And so I want to say that. Something else that I can say is like, you know, this is me potentially talking myself into delusion, okay? Reface. Quinn Snyder teams usually, for the most part, get off to slow starts. If you look over the last few years when he was in Utah. to ask coach, of course, they always were like 500ish or whatever. And the Atlanta Hawks

since what, the year 2021, they've had a record of 89, counting today of 89 and 92. So it's like the definition of mid. And so there's just like so much going on. We're trying to learn a new play style. There's like flashes and glimpses. But of course, those flashes and Glimps is literally only last throughout the entire game for like compiled into a compiled into its entire game like two, three minutes, you know what I'm saying? So it's like the motion offense is there. I think we're like the third best offense currently in the NBA, which is insane. So I still even think we can't, I still think we can't get even better, which is a scary

part. But at the same time, the main focus is defense. We're going to reach expectations and get to the standard that we should be at. at least our front office believes that we're going to be at we need to start playing some damn defense there's no excuse no reason why we should be the be one of the five worst defenses in the NBA when we have Clint Capella on your team dionandre hunter who's just man to jontane murray and just someone like jalen johnson who's not a slouch i would say on the defensive end either you know so it's like systematically looking at coincider's scheme of course like

you alluded to earlier isa he's never been a defensive oriented team he just got blessed Rudy Gaubert. You know my fix to the Atlanta Hawks problem is fucking trade for Rudy Gubier please, please

God damn it I need it I've never begged for a French like this before on my life but I need it that's hilarious

yeah I mean they're interesting because like you said they have been a top five offense all year which that's the core of why me

and you predicted them to be good is because that's something that when 2021 when they were a good team it's because they had

I think been one or two offense that season Quinn Snyder's an offensive I don't know if I'll say genius but high level

offensive coach, you expect that to lead to some high firepower teams that can compete on a given night. But like you said, 25th in defense. And what's interesting to me is their defensive issues are exactly the same as the word below before with Nate McMillan. Whenever they traded for Jejante Murray, a lot of people were trying to convince me as a good trade because they needed perimeter defense. And me personally, I was like, listen, they had the 21st rim defense the year before that. Their biggest problem is no room protection. Klinga Pella missed a lot of that year, so maybe that why, but that was the issue and a defensive oriented point guard isn't going to fucking fix that. That year, that has 66% uh, fulgo percentage given up at the rim. This

year that's 65.3. Same shit, different year. I don't know if you want to blame that on Trey Young not having good point of attack defense. Maybe the rent protectors aren't as good as we hoped. Whatever it may be, that's still a thing. And what I'm concerned about is Jalen Johnson's defense has been a very like welcome sign this year. He's been a great efficient score. That's awesome but he's been genuinely impressive defensively their half court defense is 10 points per hundred possessions better with him on the court so they're already really bad but they're better with him on the court yeah you take him away they're gonna be horrific listen there's not a there's not a lineup that they have according to cleaning according to cleaning the glass there's not a

lineup that the hawks have that is that is above league league average defensively all of their lineups are bad right and so like you can ask quinestiner and listen maybe we'll see this change with Johnson out and all these other lineups, you know, trying to fill in the void. But whatever Quinn Snyder is trying, it's not working. And so the same problem that they had, I like, I don't think that this is a Quinn Snyder problem, though. I think this is personnel. Because a lot of the personnel in terms of defensively, you have, you have Clint Capelli in the back end manning that defense. That's been the same way for a couple years now. And so you have that and you have tray young at at at the one and the five and those things that you know book ending your defense it's like that has to change and so like unless you want to get clink compelled out of there to go get a more you know a better room protector that's what it's going to be so i don't know i think this team is structurally flawed and it's not necessary you know like it's not anybody's at least on the lower level you know it's the gym see there's two things

I'll let you go first, Isaac. What's weird? Yeah, I'll be real quick. You know, I talked about a couple years ago before they got the Jonté Murray, the rim defense is the biggest problem because it was OLA. Teams were finishing there really easily. There were 25th in efficiency given up. But there were only 15th in rim volume given up. So they were average in terms of not letting teams get to the rim in the first place,

which is incredibly important for building a solid defense. Because like we've mentioned people many times, rim defense is like the core of it because it was the most efficient shots in the game. But the past two years with the Jonti Murray, last year there were 29th in rim volume given up. damn this year 28th yeah so teams are just getting there nonstop even though they actually hold teams a little bit better when they actually get there but if you're letting teams get there more than anybody else it's impossible to build a good defense every year we see the top defenses don't let

people get to the room and to help add context to exactly what you just said now that we have quink of our quinn Snyder here something that I noticed a hell of a lot more is that we are jumping passing lanes that's something that's you know reached by Quinn Snyder hella look at at Tray Young, he's averaging the most steals in his career. I think he's averaging at 1.6, something like that. DeJante Murray's having the most, the third most steals in his career. And Junkumko, he's obviously in the passing lanes. Then Bogdan Bogdanovich, he averages like 1.4 steel or something like that's insane. So obviously, like when you're gambling like that so much, no shit, you're going to get beat consistently. You can get railed in the paint, always.

So that doesn't help as well. And so I think eventually, sooner than later maybe this happens 40 games into the season and we start turning around like how we usually do whatever um that's when maybe that that whole thing will get addressed but that doesn't help at all i got some i got some bad news for you exactly he's not going to happen yeah the top two in deflections so that's working it knows i mean that makes total sense if that's a quince nire thing like you're saying you would know that better than me watching them more often than i do that makes sense because when you have Rudy Gobert on the jazz, it makes sense to be aggressive in the passing lanes because you got one of the best room protectors of all time behind you to cover

it up. If you don't have that and the guys you have jump in the lane aren't as talented and Clint Capella is just not go bare? That's a hard formula to make work. So is it a talent issue? What's your read on Anyaka Kongu versus Capella? I feel like people have been waiting for Anya to make a big leap and get more opportunity. It hasn't came. That's also partially because Capella is good. So you don't want to just give up on him. You kind of, I imagine the coaching staff wants to have the versatility of having both of them. That's the thing. Do you feel like either of them have been good enough?

That's the thing. A lot of Hawks fans want to go ahead and get rid of Quincopella, but I think this would be one of those situations to where if Klingapela was to get traded, you will not know, you will not know what I'm saying? And although Klinga Pella can be a little annoying to watch sometimes what NBA Center, you know what I'm saying, who's not top 10, won't, be a little annoying to a lot sometimes, you know, like with how much shit people give Klincapelle, specifically hot fans. Um, he, whenever, when it comes to what he's asked to do, he does a pretty damn solid good job at it. So I don't think he, I like him a lot. He's good. Yeah, he's not the issue, you know. And as far as on Yaku Kongu, although he is a good young player, he's tenacious on defense, maybe sometimes a little bit too tenacious because he gets into

filed trouble like he is not ready just yet to take on the reins of him being a starter as bad as hawks fans want in hell our coaching staff wants to two because he's been getting one more minutes and clinkapela's minutes over the last few years have has been on a slight decline he's just simply not ready and we'll be at rebounded like a motherfucker routinely routinely if that was the case i wasn't actually so is it rebounding why you say that because you know he's like 24 now like he's not super young like you would think by year three or four you'd is he year three or four i don't remember he was drafted yeah You think that'd be an age where you're ready to be a starter.

So is it a rebounding issue with him? Like, what do you think is holding him back from being given those reins? I generally don't know. Rebounding is part of it, but also it's like, you know, yeah, it's rebounding, then it's sizing, and then it's also. What the fuck is that? I don't know. I don't know if you'll hear that on the podcast. But we just randomly heard Nikol the producer.

through his mic we randomly heard like anime singing it was really strange exposed weeaboo weaboo weaboo weaboo weaboo

weaboo it was a crazy it was a commercial it was a commercial it's calm done he's never getting on the mic again I promise you

his mic is staying muted for the rest of the month oh man that's hilarious that's what I'm saying I would on yaku kongu on the court looks the best next to jalen johnson and now that jelan jonson's out too which like it's harder to do to see the final product of yaku kum thrive so i don't feel

confident in him just yet he has to prove it to me you know what i'm saying he has to prove to be a top 15 center in the NBA because that's what kinkapela is yeah yeah listen i'm looking at the stats when he's on the court every year the offense of remanding percentage goes down so that's not great i'm looking on defensively every year they're yeah every rebounding stat when he's on the court it goes down which granted that means that's because when he's

on the court clincapella is who's a perfectly fine rebounder so maybe that's not entirely fair don't yucca to be like oh you're not as good of rebounder as clint when clint's like three and a half inches taller but yeah i can see that that'd be an issue especially when they don't have a great reminder at the four i mean i guess jalen johnson's probably better than like what they've had in past years of john collins maybe but listen he's not going to be there for six weeks so that's tough yeah man the hawks think can be sad can we talk about another team god damn sure let's do it we sure

can because now is a time i don't know how y'all thought about this team i am ready to bury the golden state warriors damn so i have completely given up on them it's about that time yeah yeah i was never highland to begin with i last year after the playoffs i after they lost of the lakers i said i was never impressed of them people were like oh but they beat the kings the kings were really good. I've always thought the Kings weren't a particularly well-suited team for the playoffs. So to me, needing seven games to beat the Kings when Sabonis has given you nothing isn't impressive, like at all. I think that was like not a good playoff victory in terms of projecting them for Ford for other future playoff series. So coming to this year, they were older.

You know Steph's not going to take a fall off, but everybody else is only getting older and older. The young players aren't quite taking the leaps you'd want. I wasn't very bullish on them. I didn't think they have a chance to win a championship. And I think if you thought the way I did, And you thought that their time was coming up. This core is aging out of its window. You have been confirmed right so far this year. Yeah, it's been tough. Listen, night one of the season,

Charles Barkley had said, he was like, listen, the Warriors are cooked, right? He said that they were the fourth best team in California. And I was like, okay, like, let's, listen, it's night one, you're being a little hyperbolic. He was right. Like, they are the fourth. They are the fourth best team in California.

They are cooked. Like, listen, Clay Thompson is talking crazy. Draymond is acting crazy. Steve Kerr is coaching crazy. Like, everything that can go wrong for this team is going wrong. Gary Payton, it was announced today that he's going to miss some time. Chris Paul is hurt now. They, Andrew Wiggins has fallen off of a cliff, right?

I don't, I 100% don't see a way back for this team. Right. Yeah, for context of those listeners. The Warriors are currently 8 and 10 sitting in the 10 seed. They're 2 and 8 in their last 10 games. Like Donovan said, Chris Paul's hurt day-to-day. Gary Payton, Donovan said he's in missing time. He's going to miss a lot of time.

He tore his calf. He's out indefinitely. Another serious injury to an incredibly valuable player for them because of his athleticism and just like speed and tenacity he brings defensively, something this team sorely lacks. And I think we can boil this under three major problems. Clay washed. Doesn't think he's washed.

He's in his mellow stage of his career. And it's costing greatly because they're never going to bench them because Steph wants them there and Kerr trust them. Dremont Green, erratic, isn't giving you much besides getting technical fouls. Never going to bench them because Steph wants them there and Kerr trust them. They're young players. Kaming has been eh. Moses Moody has been probably their third or fourth best player this season. Not getting the minutes because Steve Kerr and Clayton, because Steve Kerr and Curry want Clay Thompson there and trust him.

So it really just boils down to their other two stars. haven't been good enough. And because the decision makers there want to trust them, it's holding back other players from getting the minutes and getting the free reign they need to develop into that next stage. Yeah. What do you do about that? Because you're not going to get rid of them.

No, it's the, listen, it's really the politics. And you talk about, like, you know, clay overshadowing Moody. Clay is going to be a staple in whatever the warriors do. Like, he's going to be there. Right or wrong. That's the way it is. The Wiggin stuff is interesting because the other night, like wiggins was was doing what he does which is you know playing poorly and moody is actually

having a good game moody's actually having a good game and curb pulls moody for wiggins for that lineup and it's like clay at this point like obviously you have to like respect him he's a non-shooter man like he's not making that he's he's not making anything gray you mean wiggins no no no clay i'm I'm talking Oh, Clay's a non-shooter? He's working everything, right? Well, he shoots 38%. He's not a non-shooter,

but for his, the type of shots he takes, he takes shots like he's still Clay-Cla. He's in irrational shooter. That's what it is. For them to be the Splash Brothers and like the offense to work, both of those guys need to be,

you know, knocking down shots had a highly efficient rate. And that is not happening. So right now, him for his standards, non-shooter, Drey, non-shooter, Kavon Loonie, non-shooter. So now you just have Steph Curry running cardio for 40 minutes a night

Trying to get everybody open Trying to hope that they double him And it's just it's not a good situation They're the only they also can't win at home They're the only team right now in in I guess the top 10 in the playoff picture That has a losing record at home That's nuts Which is wild

Oh man nothing's going right I feel like that'll I feel like that'll adjust to normal but it's not a good sign i'll tell you that yeah no nothing about the warriors makes me feel good at all if we were talking like the first seven games eight games of the season or whatever back when they were eating step went out briefly for because of a little injury or whatever chris paul a lot of people raving about him and his magnificent start well damn he fell off of a cliff he's shooting like 39% now from the field and 32% from three point line he's averaging like seven points. That is no good. Isaac Gutierrez. You were cooking last, what, two episodes or

whatever it was. You said that man is in this Kyle Larry phrase. You're correct. He's just been at absolute zero now that he's gone along with Gary Payton and Wiggins. He had his first good game last night against the, against the Sacramento Kings. But even then, it's just like you need, you need that a hell of a lot more consistent. And they're just not many other threats on this team to rely on you know so yeah to say that your team is Andrew Wiggins reliance is scary as fuck what happened man he was an all-star couple years ago okay he was we know why he was a k-pop but yeah yeah he was good though he was like very advised player but coming this year like I said I wasn't high on them for a couple reasons they can't generate room pressure

at all outside of stuff curry they traded Jordan pool one of their most dynamic players that's juice in them for Chris Paul, who know there's reasons to convince yourself that might work early in the season. We saw him do some good stuff with the bench units. But if you need a team that needs rim pressure and you're spending $45 million on the worst rim scoring point guard the NBA, it has in his league, it's not going to help. They're lacking athleticism. I said after the first couple weeks that they need somebody like Aaron Cord at the four, someone that has juice, has a punch that can get to the room, create that pressure, and just give them athleticism. the best version of that they have is

Kaminga who isn't very good we can say it now and Gary Payton who just tore his fucking calf off his boat so that's not going to prove anytime soon and all of that has been bared out in the stats there's a stat including the glass called location based effective focal percentage which means

you know the type of shots are most efficient in the game are rim shots in three point shots mid-range shots less so and they rank it based off of based on where you're taking your shots what you're expected to score you know based on like You're basically a shot quality being measured. They're 30th because they are 30th in rib volume.

They cannot get to the rim. They are purely a jump shooting team. And like Donovan said, all their shooters aren't shooting well. So when you're 25th and fiddful percent on drives and Clay Thompson can't make a jump shot, it's impossible to win that way, especially when you don't have that defensive boost that we're saying. Yeah, I was so, I was convinced that they were going to be able to stay afloat this year, purely off a vibe. I talked all of last season up to just, hey, it's out the door because Dremont punched Jordan Poole. Like, they made their decision.

You keep Dremont, you keep the anchor of your defense. You get Jordan Poole, who, listen, you said that, like, you know, trading him. It was the right thing to do. He was unplayable in playoff series. Yeah, yeah. And so it's like, I guess, I don't know. It's a money issue more than anything to do. Yeah.

But I figured that now that he's out the door and everybody, can kind of breathe and it would be okay that they would be fun and you come out the gate and start what six and one whatever they did whatever they did and it's like okay like we're we're here right chris ball bench unit was good but that but again like the andrew wiggins stuff was also been terrible because they're starting five just like the hawks who we mentioned their starting five was losing minutes and so they they did not have a a core lineup that they could a hunt that they can do both two things up they didn't have a line up that they can play for a lot of minutes and they didn't have a lot of uh they didn't have a line up that they can play a lot of minutes

and trust right you can you can play the bench but how much are you trusting gary peyton and moses moody and comminga and all that all right sorry about that guys i had to do a quick cut because my audio stopped recording for some reason so the last couple minutes were me using my camera audio so if that sounded like shit for a few minutes my bad we should be back to normal donna what were you saying before i cut you off of the tech difficulties i see listen I forgot. All I know is that the wars are, at this point, they are cooked. The starting lineup has, the starting lineup doesn't have a lot of shooting.

Andrew Wiggins isn't, the rebounding from him, doesn't look, doesn't look the same. The bench unit now that Chris Paul and Gary Payton are hurt, the bench unit is cooked. So it's going to get very, very ugly. And I think, like, they are, I would not be surprised if they missed the play-in tournament it all together. I have a question for y'all. I have a question for y'all. Before it gets very, very ugly,

would you try to make some type of trade happen? Would you dare float someone like clay on and they own all their picks for the next few years? Of course. So is that something that you entertain? You can't. Yes. Okay. If there was just like on paper, absolutely you trade clay.

But Steph wants them there. he listened to Steph. You can't break up the Splash Brothers. Mike Dunleavy is a first year GM. He's not going to be the guy that gets known for breaking up to Splash Brothers. It's not going to happen. I would make a trade 100%.

That includes Chris Paul's salary, picks, and maybe some of the young guys at Kaminga, he can go at this point. And I say that because you have to. The way they play right now, their whole style of play with the motion offense, like I said, no room pressure, all jump shooting.

They're third in open shots created in the league, but they're still 19th in effective focal percentage. So clearly the process is working But the talent you got isn't suited to make it work Maybe it's cold shooting it'll get better But to me it looks like they need to bring with more shooters More creators that can attack the rim

So yes the short answer is yes They should absolutely make a trade The time yeah and not exactly The time to get Clay out the building is in the offseason You can't move a legend of the team midseason So him and Dre they are there Until I guess for them is going to be April Like they're going to be in uniform until then and then once they, you know, re-evaluate where they are because everything that we've said about LeBron for the last, you know, three, four years and like it's insane that he's still at this level and you have to do whatever you can to capitalize on his window right now.

That applies to Steph too. Steph is 35 years old and he's still one of the five best players on the planet. And as long as he is continuously shooting the way that he is and can draw the. amount of attention that he can you have to put a competent team around them and when you have like what 80 million dollars a year going towards clay thompson and draymond green that's it's a it's a waste of resources at this point so yeah man yeah but it's tough like this i don't even know what this is what this is what happens though this is what happens with dynasties you know people get old yeah yeah it's natural i honestly like mo you asked should they make a trade

To me, it's obviously yes. Do you have, either one of you, I'll ask you, first, Mo, do you have, like, a positive outlook, like a differing, contrary in view to why maybe it'll get better? Because to me, I see a team that is never going to win the points in the paint matchup, never going to win the turnover battle, never going to win the fast break battle, and an inconsistent jump shooters. And I don't know how you can overcome all those things. No, I don't think there's a real path to them being one of the more dominant teams in the Western Conference again. everybody's caught up everybody's faster than them people a lot of teams have a better offensive offensive than them i think they have like the 13th best offense in the NBA their defenses man but at the same time draymond missed like five games earlier in the season so of course that affects

a little bit but still 17th best defense in the NBA that's all going to get you shit and so there's no real pathway in my opinion for them to rise to the occasion and be heavy hitters alongside the team like the Denver Nuggets or the Phoenix Suns or maybe even the Minnesota Timberwols because like they generally just don't have enough juice enough punch pound for pound player for player outside of Steph Curry you know so there's no real way and that's why I don't even think they can compete with the Lakers who were like the fourth best no they're like they're like it's I it's I don't you can't count them out to some extent they're kind of like after 2020 you're like listen did it may be something voodom magical happened maybe the wrong heat time where you're on heat time where you're or they just make some shit happen. You can't count out Steph in the core. But that's purely emotional. And just like, they're goats and they'll figure it out. Logically, I don't see any reason to believe it.

Listen, Draymond Green choked out Rudy Gobert a week and a half ago. The moment that happened, you look at this team and you're saying, okay, it's unsirious. Like, and again, and it's not, it's not Steph Curry's fault. It's not Steve Kerr's fault. It's not Draymond's fault. But you look at this team and it's like, if we're choking, people out on the basketball floor. I can't expect to look at this team on a night to night basis and say that everything

is right, especially when you're quote unquote emotional leader is off the rails, right? That's always been something that you can point to and say, he's kind of crazy, but it's okay, because he's going to be DPLY level. That's not there anymore. And it's, they are, they're done. They're done. It's just the epitome of moving like he thinks he's pock. that he's moving like he's pock

Clay's moving like he's mellow and Steve Kerr's moving like he hates youth like I don't know how you get past all this you don't you can't lose games yeah you can't and this is something for the fans to sit down and see because it's natural it happens to a lot of dynasties

in the NBA not every single NBA team or organization is going to just thrive for 10 years like the Warriors did a couple years ago like it's just not going to happen you know and they're just like riding the course of the death of the warriors era and the 15 year old in me is dancing up and fucking down I was number one hater for these guys but now that I actually appreciate basketball it's kind of sad to see no it's not you're gritting on their grave don't like

all right man we can move on do you uh do y'all want to talk about the Detroit Pistons a little bit Oh, man. Yes. This is all I have to say. This is something I have to say, bro. You are an eternal hell as an NBA fan. If you have to rebuild, you're a rebuild. What even is that term?

You have to, you messed up so you're fixing your mess up? What the hell is that, man? They just have a lot. They have a collection of players who are good individually, I would say, and you can see them being productive, but as a collection. it's not it way earlier this up this season and one of our episodes i said yo there's a disconnect between monty williams in the fucking front office because this man has this man has jad and ivy coming off of the bench top five pick last year this is just something you don't do this

this needs to be a conversation had and eventually you made that switch but now things are just absolutely cooked the last time the the Detroit Pistons made the playoffs Isaac and donovan were 16 years old we were 16 years old we're 24 now That's a long-ass time Yeah, no no no Isaac and Donovan like you weren't all I'm saying Listen, listen we are all together Okay, that's that's one also no

Man's masquerading as a youth fuck I do When was the the Blake Griffin year? This is 18 19? The Blake Griffin year was what? Was it 2018? I think it was 2018 I think it was 2018 yeah Did they? Oh shit Thank you can you? Yeah, yeah

Did you hit the franchise index and see? Yeah, can you? Because that was like, what, six years ago? My math was off, yeah. Either way. You count that you're going to be it once in later nine years. I've started and graduated college before they made the playoffs again. So there's that. But listen, Bo, you think that there's some type of disconnect between the front office and Moni.

I don't know how much that is just because they gave him the, richest contract for any coach in NBA history. I forget about that. If it wasn't for that contract Redded. If it wasn't for that contract you can make it through Christmas so you can get gifts for your family. The moment 20, the moment

2024 hits, your key card's not working. Don't come back. This 15 straight losses, it's unacceptable. I don't, I don't care what, I don't care what the state of the team is. 15 straight is absolutely crazy. Yeah. Again, let's take another step back. We keep doing this. Let's explain people the situation. Like Donovan said, 15 straight losses, the 2 and 16, worst team in the NBA. When we were on streaming of the day, they played the Wizards in the Poo Platter Bowl, they lost. They currently, in the last couple of years, when, since they've had Kay Cunningham, he's missed a lot of time. But in the games he's played, they're 25 and 66. They have made zero progress as a team around the number one pick. They've done zero progress in building around him in a way that.

can help him flourish. They are the worst three-point shooting team in the league, despite having a lead guard who needs three-point shooting. They are one of the worst defenses in the league, despite having a star Thompson, Jalen Duren, Jit Kate Cunningham, people you would think would be good defenders. Nothing about this team is working from a structural level. They brought in Monty Williams, like Donovan said, to be the richest paid head coach in the league. He's supposed to be a culture changer. He made the Phoenix Suns a contender. That's something that takes time so we can't overreact and say that that won't work for him. But so far, The vibes and culture and everything there have been worse than they were last year.

Again, only 17 games. That's something that takes time. So I'll give him time there. But there has been no immediate results that have any, give you a business fan, any reason of optimism. Listen, they have 15 losses right now. By the end of December, they're probably going to have 30 losses on their record. Okay, actually, no, that's a lot. That's a lot.

but they're not going to put them in a game like 24 probably 24 losses right still sick how many teams in the eastern conference like what teams do you think will have 24 losses all year like are the Celtics are the Celtics losing 24 are the 76ers are the bucks how like they're they're going to have there's going to be there's going to be some teams that don't lose that many you're right there's going to be teams that have a years they like they're going to have a year's worth of losses in two months and it's absolutely disgraceful and like I just I don't know yeah where they are going and what is it let's say 9 and 52 in the 2023 calendar year oh my god they're in hell bro 82 and 238 over the last five seasons oh my oh man this is this is what this is what

Detroit Pinsons fans need to just sit down and probably don't even invest any your money to go into any of these games like you're better off working on your side hustle instead of spending time watching the start a podcast yeah start a drop shipping door dash power washing get it like do something else get a check shop watch watch get your LLC go to tick talk shop get to LLC because you are not doing anything productive. You are not even entertaining yourself by watching this struggling team rebuild. Like this

we would all think that I am in hell as Atlanta Hawks fan. You know what I'm saying? After seeing, the second that your team gets expectations placed onto them, that's when things get a little bit more intense, obviously. And so for me as a Hawks fan seeing this, I am so happy and blessed to be in the position

that I'm in because having to rebuild and rebuild and blow up something that's just was built two three years ago is embarrassing and they need to restructure everything because being lazy on defense and offense having no type of no type of strictness or rules or just anything is ridiculous and so they just need they need a lot of changes needed a lot of changes and i like sure the only benefit of the doubt that i can give them is like yo they're missing out on someone who's pretty fucking important who's an 18 point upper game score, you know, there's six, seven, what's his last name? Bogdanovich still? Yeah, so it's like, still, he changed it? Yeah. Yeah, so it's like, they're just cooked. They're

cooked and needed. They need to start swinging pieces out left and right. Yeah, Nikiel, can you pull up the list of Detroit Pistons draft picks? Let's go. Let's figure out where this process got fucked. Because in 2007, when LeBron scored 25 straight, that was the end, listen, that was the end, At the end of the Detroit Pistons that everybody knew this like this very you know rough rough and physical team They had made I think four cop four straight conference finals and they've made they like most said they haven't made the playoffs a lot since then But yeah let's see let's see what this has happened Let's scroll down what's it called so in a lot of previous years let's start with the let's go back a little bit Let's start with 2019. That's after they traded

Blake Griffin and they really drove into the rebuild they started off drafted Seco de Mboye Ass Terrible he's from France He was horrible He got signed with the Lakers Yeah

In year two And he didn't get no run He was a set or five flop He was a project pick You know the 15 overall pick You can't blame too hard for that A lot of folks are comparing To Yannis

He was one of those Yonis Wing picks Yeah it wasn't a terrible pick Isaiah Robi didn't work out He ended up on OKC pretty quickly Next year 2020 Kille Hayes I draft Twitter

The draft world liked him a lot He was in France playing with grown men Like a lot of guys we see come in and have success Looked to be a really good passer Legitimately good defensive player Obviously hasn't worked out He's memed as being the worst score in the NBA Because it's true

I don't blame him for that But you know A second miss in a row And on a project pick that just didn't hit But they were early in the rebuild That's when you take big swings right Is it? After that

Cade Cunningham. They get Cade Cunningham. They get Cade Livers, Luke Garza and J.T. Thor all in one draft. Cade should be a generational player that changed your team around, given the fact you build it properly. After we go through the rest of his draft picks, we'll talk about him, see how you'll feel about him. Next year, 2022, they draft Jaden Ivy. Best player on the board. People like him a lot compared to John Morant. I've always thought it was a questionable fit with Cade Cunningham. you're in the top five and you have nothing going for you, you don't really draft for fit. And then this year they draft with a Sart Thompson who has been a hit certifiably. Where did this go wrong?

What do y'all think is the issue with this young court? They just like, the team sucks. I just, I, and here's why. And this is, I think you see this a lot with, with a lot of tanking teams is that you get into these modes where, yes, you have, you have an opportunity to draft a player. very high. But like you said, you don't, you don't put the pieces around, around him to develop them, right? So when Cade Cunningham comes in and you've just missed on two straight picks, he's coming into one of the worst situations in the NBA. The veteran presence around him, the team around him is not great. And you are asking him, hey, immediately come in and

raise the floor of this entire franchise that has been more bun for him. years and so I tanking doesn't like and I don't want to like I am I am this is going to be like an anti-tanking tangent or whatever but I don't like tanking doesn't necessarily guarantee you wins in the in the long run right just because you bottom everything out and it might be the process that can get you the number one pick that number one pick doesn't guarantee you that you are going to be in a good position to develop them to be well to be good and so So I think for them, they have tried to bottom out too many times, and whenever they do get the piece or pieces that can actually be building blocks of a franchise, they are surrounded

by nothing. And so the team sucks. Think about that, I think it's, I don't really have an issue with tanking. They're not going to get free agents. You got to do what you got to do with a small market team. But think of all the names I just named out. Sekua, Killingham, Kaden Haley, Avey, Asart, Artax. Thompson and Jalen Dern will throw in there.

None of these motherfuckers can shoot. They just keep drafting athletic players that have traced and you hope develop into shooters. None of them are developing the shooters yet. That's their problem now. It's impossible to have a good team when none of your most important players can shoot. Like, granted, it's not bad process, in theory,

to draft young players. Like, we all like the ASR pick. We think he can develop into a decent shooter, and if he does, he'll be incredible. But, you know, if that doesn't work out, you're fucked and none of these bets on shooters besides maybe jen ivy who's been shooting better you so was k this year from three but not great kate shooting better is 34% if none of the no of the swings work out from perimeter shooting wise you're just not going to be able to build a good

team and never going to be able to make any type of improvements yeah for this team right here there's a lot there's a few things that fail them i me personally i'm the completely opposite of donovan and I believe in tanking wholeheartedly. But there's only so far you can go with that philosophy. Why? Because it's the only thing you can do when it's like it's a gateway to having a great young player. That's point in blame period.

It's either that or free to see. And getting one through the draft is the easiest way to do so. But that doesn't fucking matter if no one in your front office has even a mosleet molecule to learn how to put together a team. bro go ahead and look go ahead on youtube and type in keel king of the fourth quarter and watch a rebuild video yo that'll do you some justice you know what i'm saying and at this point if i am a team like

the detroit pistons you have to rebuild you rebuild do what's obvious get rid of someone like jaden ivy not not to say he's a bad player or anything like that but he is someone who you can extract some type of value for and help alleviate the pain that Cade Cunningham is going through, you know, there's only, there should only be like three mainstay players who are not going anywhere. I'm sure we're all not down on, like insanely down at least on Cady Cunningham. He's, he's literally in hell. Um, Assar Thompson, you know what I'm saying? Like, his potential is sky high and then Jalen, Jalen during. Those three have NBA skill, have skill sets that ping well enough with each other. And also,

there's there's a clear path for them to potentially there's a clear passive to be to be one of the best at their position you know yeah so that's the main thing I don't think the problem is that they don't rebuild the team to me the bigger issue seems to be granted I'm not a Pistons fan I'm not out here watching 60 Pistons games a year so maybe I don't fully understand this situation it looks like player development like I said they take a lot of raw draft picks that need to be developed in the shooters none of them have developed so like that's clearly the issue, I think, is that none of these players

have developed as you want. You said, we're probably not down on Cade. I think we need to have a discussion about Kate cutting him and how we're viewing him, because early last year, we were having conversations with him comparing him to Anthony Edwards. That's the type of shit he was in. And he just clearly, through three years,

has been nowhere close to that level. Again, not his fault. He's a slasher with no shooters. But I think we do also have to look at the player he is at, what is he, 22 now, 23? Yeah, 22. we kind of have to reevaluate what we think he can be based on what he's done so far

he's not the passer that we hoped he could be coming into college people thought he'd be like lamello level passer he's just not he's not the athlete that we thought he could be he's never been a good rim score the shiry shoots 52% at the rim granted no spacing so it's hard to get there but he's not explosive getting past people to get to the rim he's an okayish shooter he shoots 34% from three in college that off the dribble shooting was like what was going to make him a star offensively he's a but he is a good defender but none of his skill sets have grown to be elite yet. Yeah.

He's well-rounded so everything can come together to make him pretty good still. But yeah, I'm starting to doubt whoever be like a true superstar. Are you all? Yeah. The thing for Cade is like what's what made everyone sold on him is the passing and just how he could do pretty much everything on the court. Now, yes, I think his main comparison in the NBA draft was this sounds fucking ludicrous, but it is true was fucking Jason Tatum and Luca Dodges. That is, that's nuts.

You know what I'm saying? Shades of them. Yeah, he obviously like, you know, has an insane 2K bill, bro. It's an insane 2K build. And when you have someone like Cade who doesn't appear to be elite in any specific category, like he's not an elite shooter, obviously looks like he's changed the shot or early in his screen, he changed a shot a couple of times and it just looks so wonky. And now it's like, it's an okay place.

Not one of the best passes in the NBA, even though he's good at it. Defense, bro, the entire team don't play defense. And he especially does not really play defense either. So it's like, I think it's time for potentially us to consider him as not that guy. And this rebuilding the rebuild, he is a part of that. But that doesn't mean like he can't be one of the guys. You know, there's nothing going on being the guy. It'll be good.

It's just, yeah, like, I don't know if we can project him to eventually be a top 13 player. anymore. And I think coming in, number one pick, he was thought to be generational. He's just not. You see this tweet on the screen from Mo. This is Mo. This summer said, not a lot of people are going to care, but the Pistons have made amazing moves, man. Pushing, play it.

And Isaac responded with a classic Blanky mode meme. Now listen, this was after the NBA draft and they took the star thompson and then man yeah it just it just how embarrassing it just has it listen it hasn't panned out and the person that they're building around isn't what they thought they were going to be and for k if we're talking about that conversation you have to pick one you can't be bad at scoring at the rim or bad or bad at shooting you can't be both right if you if you're going to be that guy you can't be both pick one and then we can work on the other but it's just there's too

many faults in the game right now and yeah they most been saying it they have to rebuild the rebuild but they are going to have to really change up their entire strategy because whatever they've been trying and the prospects that they've been going after they they are not equipped to build a team around them to to be to be successful so and whether that means being like aggressive in the trade market and just saying, hey, we're going to go bring some guys in that can play right now and then we can start developing them. Maybe that's, that's the worst thing ever for them. It might not be.

It might not be. You see what Houston did. Houston's done that. They got some adults in the room, right? And now you have a couple guys. Right? You got a real coach. You're able to develop just a little bit better.

Maybe they take that path instead of bottoming out. No, for sure. I thought you're alluding towards the Zach Levine route, which I'm like, I don't like that. No, no, no, no, not like swing. But getting adults. in the room. Yeah, not swing for the fences to be like, oh, we're going to go from the worst team in the league.

We're going to make the playoff. Like, you don't have to make that level jump. But just say, we're not tanking this year and we're actually going to try and be a competent basketball team. There's a lot of value in that. I agree. I agree. I think they have to do that because we're talking about Cade recalibarian expectations, but

we can't write him off as like never being an all star because, like, we said several times, no shooting and he's a slasher. He shoots bad at the rim. It's hard to shoot good at the rim. you got a million motherfuckers standing in the paint. Like, he's not John Moran. He doesn't have the athleticism to bail him out and to let him get to a spot

no matter what. Not that type of guy. He desperately needs spacing for us to even find out if he can be a good score. Because when you watch him play, like he can move, he can get to a spot,

like move around. It looks like he can do what he wants. He just can't, he's not in a team environment that can let him flourish to finish. Adding Boyon will help. Like Don't like Donovan said, add more shooters,

add more competent players can help. I don't know how you have to do that because otherwise, I don't know how you can form opinions about your main guys. when it's they're just not in a situation that can let you really evaluate them i don't yeah yeah it's tough and more a little bit more context behind this tweet i saw them boys go ahead and you know i'm saying make make moves for fucking alec burks and joe harris who hasn't played for a minute

i think he's hurt but i don't remember when he got hurt or whatever but he's always hurt yeah it is what it is that joe harris for you and seen that they had did they say monta morris yeah and they signed monte mores and that that was even more context behind this suite and like this suite will make so much sense of these vets were making the waves that I thought they would and be making the impact locker room wise and just send the tone for how to be professional on a consistent basis in the NBA but they haven't and then alongside that Kate has been disappointing and so it's just an overall it's an overall shit show so they have like literally nothing going right for they have two

things they have two things going right for them though they really do one big Sean does designs their jerseys. That's hard. And then at the game, they have this ice chain. And so whoever's ever like in the crowd and they're wearing like a like a cool necklace, they show them and they show love. So listen, if you dripped out, the Detroit Pistons, they will find you. So those are the two things that they have like a diamond tester too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's a very interactive. It's tough. It's an interactive experience when you step into the Little Caesar's arena. You're telling me I got to sit down and watch this dog shit of a product. Plus, on top of that, you're going to embarrass me on the big-ass jumbo.

But imagine watching that, though. Imagine, imagine paying, exactly. Imagine paying money, right? It could be a road game. You can go watch the Lakers. And then, and then look at somebody in the crowd and be like, ah, diamonds of face. Diamonds of faith. That's good.

That's true. Let's move on, man. I want to talk about another team, the Toronto Raptors. Listen, we've talked about it before. Raptors fans have a bit of a victim complex. because they're overlooked being Canadians and nobody cares about them in the NBA. It's true.

There's times we don't care about them and we would gloss over them and we get a lot of comments saying we should talk about them more and I agree. And I think today we should talk about the fact that they once again fucking suck and I think they should panic.

I think it's time to talk about them. They are currently either, it was 11th, 11th in the Eastern Conference in the last 10 games, they are 4 and 6 and I watched them play and I cannot

imagine a team that is more mediocre, more below average in many categories than the Toronto Raptors. I fucking hate watching them. I think they are Detroit Pistons given like one Pokemon evolution. They're the middle evolution of the Detroit Pistons. You go pistons and you evolve to the Raptors and you evolve to the Knicks in terms of untalented teams. Damn. Okay. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. I wouldn't go that far. I think I'm kidding. Ridicously. No, but when When it comes to calling me ridiculously mid, I wouldn't go that for because I at least know, like, what they're good at. They play defense really well, you know, but at the same time, that's what they've been

doing all these years and that's never been an issue. The issue has been a few other things around them. So at least they're not like, I can't put them in the same stratosphere at Detroit because Detroit has serious issues. Of course, of course, I was joking. Raster issues and all that, but yeah. Listen, you can know what you can know what you are, right? and you can have an identity and still be mid.

Like, those two things are not mutually exclusive. And the Raptors are that. They know exactly what they are. And they're 11th in defense. They're not even like a lead at it. It's not bad. A good defense. You know.

They're a good defense. But, you know, when you're the 25th offense, I don't think it matters particularly much unless you're like the number two defense that you're not going to win games. That evens out. It evens out. What's the net reading at? Are they like, what, 12 or something?

they are minus 1.2 is a point inferential from offense and defensive rating yeah minus 1.2 yeah that's not great which is you're a below average team that is 22nd in net rating and the reasons why

are pretty fucking obvious we've all said it from the jump is the same same issues they had last year they have no passers no creation everybody that they're trying to meet the creators can't dribble can't pass so they play really sloppy

I follow a lot of Raptors for some reason and they're all like I feel like I'm watching high school kids play and I go watch the Nuggets and I'm like this is real basketball oh my god like it's a revelation

it's so night and day when you have Dennis Schroeder OG An Anobie and Scottie Barnes being the ball handlers then you go watch any other team and see people that can actually playmake it's exactly no there's not even any complex analysis needed

their players don't make sense because as you said for years they're all the same player they all have big forwards who can be secondary or tertiary creators and can play defense and shoot a little bit But they just have a bunch of them and nothing to compliments them.

Yeah, man. Masai Jiri, I said this last year. Moe is Mesh, and I'm doubling down. He's so funny. He does not like this man. No, I do like him. I just think he should be on CTE watch. Because, like, there's no way in hell you should be asking some team, like, four or five

picks for OG out of Nobie. Like, there's no way in hell. You have an opportunity to, I would say, barline finesse. from my Atlanta Hawks and say, no, we're going to double down with Pascal Seaccom and not trade him. And you're watching him, although he's, he's bounced back. He's bounced back so far this season. He's having a cool 20 points for game. But for his standards and for what he was over the last few years, it's a bad season, you know.

And so there's no way you want to give the keys to someone like Scotty Barnes and fire your last head coach, bring someone new in and create this new offense and still have Pascal Seacom there and not any players to help, you know, add recipe. like it's like you fired the head chef and you bring in someone new who has this great idea making cooking up this brilliant gumbo whatever it is and you don't have any of the right utensils or seasoning to do so you have nice equipment scotty barns is a nice big ass shiny pan but bro you're over here trying to stir stir a pan with a with a fucking you're cooking you're noodle bro it's like what are you doing bro you tell him the cook gumbo and you give him pop tarts Nutella and Duck Tape And it's disgusting

Like there's terrible ingredients So a terrible product comes out It's honestly hilarious Another part was like Scotty Barnes started this season great So we all like apologize to him Because we kind of doubted him And he made improvements

That motherfucker came back to Earth Oh my God He was waiting to say this He looks like Scotty Barnes He's currently averaging 18.9 points for game 9.2 rebounds which is impressive 5.6 assists Better than last year

He's good like he's made improvements he's like not a bum at all we never thought he was a bum but we just questioned if like how much better he can be and the start of the season he was averaging like 26 points per game looked like he made a star leap

and we acknowledged that and we gave him his credit he no longer looks like a star by any means again not entirely his fault because the team doesn't fit around him at all and he's just like trying to get out the mud but you look at his stats he is just like the same player as last year

except now he shoots 38% from 3 which is I think is real and a meaningful improvement for him like if he can be a legitimately good three point shooter that makes him a better player long term but he shouldn't worse at the rim a little bit worse from midrange defensively still really good which I think is underrated

still a good passer so like again he's a better version of last year because he can shoot threes but he didn't make a huge star leap I don't think and without that what does his team have to look forward to their starting lineup has a negative net rating that's never a good sign listen they

they have been reveling in their 2019 championship for much too long And they should have known, they should have known that the moment Kauai walked out the door or the moment that they traded Kyle Lowry, this whole era is over. And we should actually, like, we should try and go in a new direction. And the moment they got Scottie Barnes, the same thing that we've been saying for the Pistons and for all these other young teams is now that you have your piece that you want

to build around, it's okay if you don't want to bottom out, right? And it's okay if you don't want to go all in or do whatever. but you have to put the pieces around around them to complement their skill sets, right? Development is, that is one of the biggest keys of development is making sure that they have the tools around them to elevate what they do well and then you can hide, you know,

you can hide their weaknesses while they work on it and do all that stuff. Like Isaac said, they have the same player times four. And in a moment, in a moment that they should have like I guess tanked or sold or done whatever they traded a first round pick to go get Yacca Purdle and it was CTE yeah that was that was a very very CTE move where you're just kind of questioning the moves that they have so

we'll see this summer is I think is going to be a very definitive one in Masayu Jiri and you know seeing if he's actually watched and whatever it's been past due the bill is due for that championship and they need to pay it. And so somebody has to get moved. Somebody has to change. Yeah, man.

You were talking about earlier, you were doubting tanking. This team should show you why tanking is necessary when you're a small market team. You make all in moves. Eventually, you said, like you said, the bill becomes due

and you got to rebuild. This is what happens. We refuse to rebuild and you try to turn to just be mid forever. They are the NBA equivalent of the New Orleans Saints. Okay. 416-9-7-9-6-88.

5. That is a psychiatric hospital. Masayi Jiri. Please check in soon. Because there is no reason why we are what. We're in November right now. And you haven't

traded away or you don't have any plans or intentions to do anything with two super valuable players. I would argue one of the most valuable players sought up to players in the NBA. And OG out of Nobi and Kaskos Yakum.

They're free agents, free agents. So you're telling me, what are we going to say? What are we going to do? What is Messiahe Jury's family going to do when they see him just fumble his team and his job? Sees the Raptors play. And his answer, it's to put Masayu Jiri in Arkham, Masai. I'm done, man. It doesn't make any sense.

Oh, my God, that's going to be a hilarious Twitter clip. Jesus Christ. Oh, my gosh, man. Yeah, man, like I said, they just, they have to, it's so simple. They have to rebuild. And there's been points in previous seasons when you could make some former argument for them still be a good team. A couple years ago, like when the bubble season happened in the year after that, they were still good. Seacom was a star.

They just got Scotty, like OG was flourishing. Fed Van Vleet was at his peak. He was looking really solid for a few years, made an All-Star game. There was some reason to argue that they should keep the core together because they can compete. And you never know. They were in Katie, Trey. any big move like that can happen and this team could go from meh to being put over the edge that time has passed they lost fred van vleet for nothing and still decided to make no changes

they could have fucking traded fred van vleet last year because they knew they were going to lose them for nothing the whole world knew and they still made no decision and still continued to just sit on their hands and hoard their mediocre pool of assets and wait and your time is passed your assets are no longer as valuable as they were before siakum is expiring OG is expiring You lost Fredman's leave for nothing. You're just, the longer you wait, the worst your rebuild is going to be. You're delaying the inevitable and just suffering for it. Damn, that's tough.

Yeah, man. That's shit is sickening. My most ridiculous. Shit is sickening. He's ridiculous. All right, before we finish up this part of the pod, let's do a rapid fire through other teams that obviously should do the panic button. I feel there's some names and teams that we've talked plenty about that we should just go through

real fast. first off the bulls should be more than panicking they should be in the second gate of hell descending towards their deepest darkest nightmares they're past the point of should they panic they're obviously panicking yes how do you feel about the grizzlies let's go through them real quick I think that the grizzles John Moran no listen I think that they should panic before a different reason

John Moran's going to come back and make them better they need the top pick right they should be they should be worried about John Moran coming back and messing up with they have going on they are hard they're not going to make the play They're not going to make the playoffs. They are playing for ping pong balls right now. John Moran is going to come back, jump over everybody, you know, have all the highlight

dunks. And they're going to win two more games, and it's going to mess up their odds. So they should be worried about that. John Moray comes back December 19th. And the same night, ironically enough, the NBA and Adam Silver was on timing. It's going to be a game on T&T versus Zion Williamson and the New Orleans Pelicans. But, you know what I'm saying? After that, they have to play the Pacers, the Hawks, Pelicans.

again, Denver Nuggets, Clippers, Kings, you know what I'm saying? And those aren't easy games whatsoever. So they have a pretty tough schedule, I would say, over the next 15, over the next 15, 16 games. And I'm on your side, I mean, if I'm the Memphis greases at this point, and if we're that deep in the trenches in the mud, what is the point of trying to compete? You know what I'm saying? When there's nothing to really compete for, for being realistic about them and their championship odds this season specifically. Doesn't make any sense. Exactly. Listen, Marcus Smart is hurt too, and he's hurt during Jackson, Jr.

We talked on the stream the other day about, you know, whether if he's a role player at this point or not, he hasn't been, he hasn't been fantastic. But they are, their offense is obviously going to get a boost. Like Desmond Bain is going to fall into a much more comfortable position. Right now he's creating a lot more than what you would want Desmond Bain to create. and John's just going to take a lot of pressure off of them, but that is, it's going to be very interesting, seeing how much or how easily

John is able to integrate himself back into this team. But, yeah, if I was the front office, that would be my biggest concern is we're going to mess around and not have a tight pick as we need to. Yeah, well, they don't want to, though. They're not going to want that pick. They're going to want to get back into squeaking into the playoffs because they're going to believe that they have a punch of chance.

That would never happen. I mean, that's the question. They're 3 and 13. They're in a huge hole. If we've seen this team be really good and their version are really good as like the two seed. So could they not get back to the 10 seed? No. No, that's too big a good one.

No, you're down 10 with another month without Jock or another three weeks without Jock. You're probably going to lose another, what, seven games or something like that. So if you come out. Do they win today? I don't know. Oh, I think, I think so. I think so. So if they, yeah, they beat the Jaws.

So 4 and 13 right now. If they are, Jod's out. for 25 games if they are 7 and what would that be 7 and 18 is that is that enough an 11 game hole to get back to 500 this jaw not probably right exactly I don't I think that happen I don't I think they're done either way based on if you want it to be bad or you want it to be good it's only they should panic because they're sadly going to be stuck in the middle and nobody's going to be happy at all to loss season yeah they're done for they're done for I don't want to see it.

Let's talk about the Clippers. They're obviously a team that has been in a lot of panic talks. Are you guys feeling like based on what you've seen from the Clippers? No, they started off horrible. Still aren't good. They lost a couple nights ago in pretty ugly fashion to a team they should have beat,

which was the Nuggets without Jamal Murray, Aaron Gordon, and Nicole Yokic, they found a way to lose. And right now they're playing the Kings and they're up big in the start of the second half, so we'll see how that goes. Overall has been a poor, poor, poor experience of James Hardin.

should they panic something that I'm panicking about this is like a little bit more bigger pictures than the clippers and the James Hardin experience itself is like Kauai Leonard because it doesn't matter how good in my opinion James Harder would fit on this team I I think in the year 2023 Paul George cannot be your best player and James Hardin cannot be your best player if you want to have real championship aspirations it all falls on Coimilar and how much of a bionic man he can be how much of a cyborg he can be can he be close to his peak form and so far this season he hasn't been that now you know what i'm saying it is early in the season and a lot of players struggle and all that but kawai's coming off of an injury and so and he hasn't looked

like himself at all i said earlier this season he's looked a real rudy gayish and he's continued to look like that and so that's that's like what my biggest that's what my biggest fear is i don't want to see kawai just be cool being the third option on this team where the second option on it seemed like that can't be the way yeah um i i see no reason to say they're going to be good they just haven't been since they've traded for them so yeah i guess they should panic because they suck right now and you get again when you have a team that makes a big move like training for james hardin it's going to take time they're going to you would assume get better as time goes on the question is to what degree do they get better do they hit a

point where you feel like they can contend, I have no clue. The loss that they had was probably the most embarrassing loss of the embassies. It has to be easily. Again. You lost to the Andre Jordan in 2023 and Reggie Jackson in your building. Reggie Jackson had 35 and 13 against the Clippers. What is, what are we taught? What's happening?

What is happening with your team? And I think moving forward and in a playoff context, those four on the floor together just don't fit well enough to win consistently. I don't think that they're going to go far. I think their long-term aspirations are probably cooked. They're probably done. So yeah, if I was a Clippers fan, I would be panicking a lot. Yeah, at this point, they're clearly in a state of panic.

And the door is always open for them to at any point figured out. and they're being a good team, you have to acknowledge that possibilities out there, but there's no reason to think that it's likely. Like, the chances are non-zero, but they're not high at this point, I think. Man, I feel so sorry for the Clippers. Are there any more teams that y'all want to panic about? Don't feel sorry. Any of the teams we should talk about?

Listen, we're pushing agendas. I'll get this quick take off. The Milwaukee Bucks, in terms of long. Long term, right? This long term. They have a lot to figure out. They're winning games right now. They're second in the conference.

They are doing what they're supposed to do, right? You are supposed to win games early and you're supposed to find ways to win. But the defense is getting better, right? The problems that were terrible in the first two, three weeks of the season, the stuff that made me put them towards the middle of the league outside the top 10 in the power rankings.

They're improving on those things. But are they going to get to a championship? level come playoffs are they going to get to a to a point where you can legitimately challenge boston even philadelphia in a playoff series i don't know i think i would say like quite who personally quietly panicking right we're not going to let anybody know that we're panicking but we're going to keep an eye on that i don't know i'm not panicking at all about them i think they'll be fine they're like you said they're getting better last game they beat the heat Janice and dame both had 30 points like they clicked as you would hope them to

they're not going to be a strong defense like they're not going to be elite defense that they have in the past they just don't milik beasley is their stopper unless they make a move and find an on-ball defender that can be the go-to with the two they're not going to be an elite defense but i think their offense is going to be great eventually like we said in the stream dame starts every season really slow he has basically the same shooting splits he had to start last year and by the time the season ended we were like holy shit this is the day's best year of his career. I think dames and I probably continue that path like he did he just does this. He doesn't touch the ball all summer and then he comes in slow and creeps back up. We're seeing that's hard

to happen now. So personally, I think they'll be fine. Although you think they'll be fine. And Donovan thinks that, you know what I'm saying? He's a quietly press the panic button. I am over here not pressing the panic button, but I'm looking at it and then I'm raising my eyebrow and I'm looking at Adrian Griffin because I'm just like, what are you cooking? Like this team. Although, yes, I know Drew Holliday is gone. One of the best, arguably the best perimeter defender in the entire NBA. But seeing how fall they've fallen off is just like real questioning. And then also on top of that, seeing the...

But they haven't. They haven't fallen out of the hard. They're 13 and 5. I'm talking about defensively. Oh, yeah. Defensively, they've fallen off. There's just like no real excuse for that other than the Drew Holiday thing. And then back to offense, we haven't seen Dame or Janus become even one of the five best duos in the NBA yet, in my opinion, in terms of synergy and knowing these player spots and all there now, giving them grace because they are new and they haven't played with any, with players, their archetype or each other's archetype ever before.

So it's going to take a little bit of time. But at the same time, I don't see them making the necessary strides to get to the point to where people are putting them in the conversation, in the same conversation. of the Celtics and the Denver Nuggets. And if you're not going to be in those conversations like halfway into the season at least, then, you know, I'm saying they're going to have, they're going to be in hell in my opinion. Yeah. One last thing.

One last thing that I have on the, on the bucks. And this is something that I'm actually panicking about. Chris Middleton does not like, he doesn't look like the same Chris Middleton that we have come to expect. He's playing 20 minutes a night. He's averaging 12 points a game. I think for them to go far, he's going to have to be some type of version of the 2021 Chris Minutton. And that version, that version might just be gone. It's been two years of like injury

filled years. And I don't know if that version is going to come back. So I am very strongly pressing the panic button on the Chris Middleton situation. It's just a minutes restriction while he's recovering. They're taking it slow. I don't, I'm not going to write him off until we see and get back to that full diminished restriction. I mean, full. minutes load because like I mean he's not going to put up 20 points per game when he's averaging 20 minutes you know what I mean like it's not possible so I agree they need him to be great for them to have a chance but you know he's shooting 52% effective focal percentage 56% on his twos the two point shot isn't falling I think the three point shot will be fine

that's the most scalable thing four assists and four rebounds 12 points like for 20 minutes per game I think that's fine I'm not I'm not writing him off because he's not injured now you know It's just a cautionary recovery process. Yeah. Last night was one of his best games of the season against the Miami Heat. And Lord Lumpy, Lord of the Lumps, Lord Lumpy, hey, Chris Middleton. Put up 17 points. And although he shot like one to three from the three point line, he hit two very timely bucket,

two very timely buckets and two very Chris Middleton, this is why we gave you that fat ass bag, Chris Middleton. and he made that appearance, and so I am worried, but seeing him put up that performance and incrementally get better and more to himself as time has gone on, makes you feel a lot better about their future. Yeah, listen, in the past, they've been a top tiered defense and a league average offense. The team just flipped now. They're the number five in offense right now and 21 in defense, and the 21 in defense

because they started like 27, so they're getting better. I think they'll probably get to the playoffs as like the fourth or fifth best offense, and the top five are always pretty jumbled and probably like the 15th best defense which they'll have to lock in and have really smart game plans and elevate defensively in the playoffs but it's possible

when you have a top tier offense head by two of the best players in the league that you can rely on to be the best players in the league in the playoffs that's a winning formula I think just in a different way than we expected yeah it's just weird it's just weird

and it's just like so flit and I wasn't prepared for that at all but that's just us underestiming the impact of coaching and the fact that they wanted they wanted to be a very different team like they saw that formula not work and went into it with the explicit mindset

of we need to shake some shit up and that's what they did yeah that is very true you know what I am prepared for though crayon eat is it is time to rejoice okay it is TikTok time

it is TikTok time you looking at me you looking at me let's let's get the engine warm man, let's get the injuring. Woo! Our favorite time of the pod. It's officially back.

We're going to play some games, do some drafts, have some fun. Welcome on TikTok time. As always, we're going to start with the draft. And this time we're going to do a player draft instead of a lineup. And that's going to be us building the perfect bald NBA player. So we can only pick player traits from players that were at one point of their career bald. We are bald specialists here. This is what we do.

We're very knowledgeable. and bald I'm very excited it's the best type of content bald mania let's do it who got the best shinies facts so yeah again anybody they had to be bald at some point of their career draft order is me

Mo Donovan and yeah I guess I'm first I listen I got the first pick the easy thing to do would be to pick a Jordan trait I'm not doing that give me Shaq's body that's fair that's wow okay yeah

I want to build a crazy big Wow okay Shack's body is very interesting You know what I would pick Jordan too But let's spice it up Give me Ray Allen three points you know Ah

Ooh We let Jordan fall to three Interesting You got me You got me All right I don't know if I want to do this You know what

Let's just keep Michael Jordan Falling Because what I'm gonna What I'm gonna do is I'm gonna take Kevin Garnett defense. Okay. And I'm going to take Vince Carter finishing.

Damn. That's where I'm going. That's great. That's great. That's great. Okay. Cool. So I can't let MJ fall anymore.

All heads damn, you want to kill me already. Give me MJ finishing. Okay. Give me. Hmm. Oh, I'm going to an interesting spot now. Give me Kobe Bryant shooting

on Jack. body. Ew. That's absurd. That's absurd. Shack would a middy. That's gross. And then, oh, okay. Give me Jason kids passing. That's nice. Oh, damn. You'd be dishing out. I got Yokch passing and Shaq's body with Kobe shooting. Ew, your player makes no sense. Gross. I'm a Fando. 2K player. 2K player. I'm a

Fando. Okay, cool. So go ahead and give me, you, I just spin into the mic. That threw me off. Okay, my bad. Go ahead and give me

Gary Payne defense. Good thing. Okay. Like that, like that. Okay. Give me. Where do I want to go?

Give me Rip Hamilton shooting? Okay, midi specialist. Right, this is why I'm going. And then put all of this into, into Dwayne Wade's body. Oh, you stole my pick. Yeah, why do you have KG's defense on a guard? He can do everything. Misplaced.

He didn't think he's going to do that. He could defend everything. All right. Oh, my God. That's crazy. Okay, whatever. You know what? go ahead and give me

Charles Barkley body Fuck, why would his body? Why would you waste that? This is basically Zion Williamson with a J. Let's run it. Ah, you wasted it on his body.

Damn. Oh, that ruined me. You know what? Don of his fault. Give me Karema Abdul-Jabar finishing. Okay. I got the post moves

on Shaq's body. That's pretty crazy. Okay, okay, okay. And then, are we counting Tim Duncan is bald? he had he had he had a moment he had a moment he did if he's not on my team then no asshole tim nick's defense i got the perfect build oh my gosh bro damn okay now i am left astray and my passers not going to be elite because you fucking stole jason kid for me so that leaves me

with no other damn who the hell's bawling who was fire passing y'all trying to nerf me with magic Johnson we all know he was bald as shit no match doesn't he had a little bit of stubble yeah we get y'all going to bat for magic now that's how person you are listen I enjoyed winning time all right I thoroughly enjoyed it bring that shit back please no fact showtime pick it up please that's gross I'm begging you FX pick it up okay you know what where you go it's not beautiful nothing crazy but go ahead and give me reggie miller passing was he bald okay not a particularly good passer reggie miller passing oh

dang yeah it's what i had to go with yeah you're sold very average pastor you're so busted my man busted my should pick tomorrowed him all right for passing hmm hmm um all right we'll go here we got some options i do i do i do and i'm just going to go give me one of the all-time leading assist makers give me mark jackson for passing oh he was he was bald yeah yeah wow i didn't know that you got me there i don't know are you all aware of the fact that darren williams was bald no i wasn't oh he was but he was yeah darren will go pick reggie miller you Darren Williams. You could have Manganoi, Chonji Bile, Sam Cassell. That killed me. That killed me. Sam Cassell averaged nine assists. Yeah, but Sam Cousel looks like a cockroach. I don't want him on my

Oh my God. Bro. I'm kidding. That's not even. That's not even that. That's the end of that video. My player is the body of Shaq, Kobe shooting, Kareem finishing, Tim Duncan defense and Jason Kidd passing A god So who is your player most similar to in the NBA right now? He still can't shoot you. Nicola Yokic with Shaq's body Yokch with Shaq's body

And Tim Duncan Dukes? Yeah really just Yokch with fucking Tim Duncan defense bro It's just like the best player of all time casually Gross, okay so I got Charles Barkley body, Ray Allen shooting MJ finishing Gary Payton defense and Reggie Miller passing. That Reggie Miller passing was shot me in the foot right there. I was cooking,

but I couldn't finish. I have de-weight. It's your fault. I've de-wage body, Rip Hamilton shooting, Vince Carter finishing, Kevin Garnett defense, and Mark Jackson passing. Actually, Donovan is a worst player. Pretty easily, I think. What are you talking about? Pretty much. Oh, man. One, you can't shoot threes. You're a mid-range specialist. The rest of us can shoot threes. That, that hurts. Secondly, you know, have big man defense with a guard body so it's just like you act like kemigernet wasn't wasn't one of the most versatile defenders we've ever seen like he can't defend on the perimeter i know i know i know exactly who donovan's player is this is just 2023 hard and we love to

see it he's a great post defender apparently right go watch kemgard net tape like he defended in space what are we talking about here no it's great he's great he's great i'm just like just some Somebody has to be last, and you have Rep Hamilton shooting. You can't shoot threes. Like, somebody has to be on the losing end. I guess it's you. Listen, Donovan screwed me out of D-Wait. I had to screw him out of Reggie Miller.

It's only fair. I was fine. Okay. We're hate. We're hate. We'll let the conversation. They don't know. They don't know.

They don't know. On to the next video. The next thing I want to do, we've done a lot of videos about NBA teams as goat players, I want to do that again, but I want us to talk about the difference between the greatest players in team history and the most talented. Because, you know, it's not always the same. Sometimes it, uh, Dan, let's pull the hair out of my chain. What the fuck? Pulling my hair's out. Yeah, sometimes the greatest player is also the best. Sometimes it's not. So we're

to go team by team and talk about the difference there and figure out who's who. Okay. Hmm, this is going to start some controversy. We love it. We're here for it. What do we define in this talent? Let's pick whatever. Whatever, the best Bag. The most talented. Whatever you think is like... It's about the bag.

It's not about the bag. It's about who's the best player on the team? Like who's the highest peak? Whatever. You do tell me what you qualify as it as. But it's obviously different from the greatest player because that, you know, factors in accomplishments, team success, all that.

Don't even worry about it, Donovan. Let's pick every NBA team's greatest player and the most talented. First thing we got the Los Angeles Lakers. Nice. I think this is pretty simple. I think is it yeah don't even knows the answer this is super simple okay tell me the best player wait what we're saying that like the teams go right okay so teams go and then their best okay

team go is Kobe uh they're like most talented I'd pick magic but I respect it most talented we'll go Shaq um talented shack so you're going most talented Shaq over 2020 Bronn wow that's Okay. Why? Wow. I was not, I was going to go to 2020 Braun to be honest with you 2020 Braun is damn near peak like he really hadn't slowed down at all. I think that's pretty easily still a better player than Jack, I think. Then peak shack? Yeah. That's damn near peak Braun. He really didn't slow down by 2020. I'm I'm taking peak shack in terms of most talented. Yeah, I'm taking peak shack. He's just un- I just okay with that. I mean and so was LeBron too he was on guard by every facet like what do you expect like you could shoot the defense was

incredible back in 2020 he's a facilitator like he can literally he played point guard that year bro he played point guard and he did something that you never seen before in NBA history his strongest defensive season since 2013 his best playmaking season was still an elite score in the finals being the go-to guy I'm easily picking 2020 brunt yeah you never see teams that reliant on a singular ball handler when an NBA chamber beat chip and the last time we saw that was magic johnson and lebron did that in his sleep his first year officially playing point guard i'm taking you understand that but you understand that shack that like peak shack is out here average averaging 35 and 14 in the finals it doesn't matter what center that you

throw at him he's he's dominating every single time like okay if this was 2016 lebron would you still pick peak shack over 2016 are you going to tell me that 2020 Ron is the exact same as 2016 Brian basically yes you really nothing changed he was still exactly the same basically no bro I'm going Shaq I'm going to Shaq

I'm going to shut down at all wrong right but you're right about Kobe though yeah it's fine next team we got the Milwaukee bucks okay foo

So most talented ever, am I going to be a jackass if I say Janice? A little bit. I think this was probably Kareem for Borgiem, yeah. Let's go ahead and do it. I think it's pretty obvious. Career has been solidified. It is what it is. Yeah.

I think there's a better argument that Yonis could be greatest if he stays there for a long time. But he's not going to be a higher peak than Kareem. Kareem has the most talented easily. Yeah. No bad. Okay, cool. Yeah. Kareem most talented.

But who is the team goat, though? It's Kareem. It's no cream. Wow But give Yon to some time He might take it Yeah, Creak cream gets both Okay

Yeah if y'all just won the championship This year To be honest He might get a team go Then we got some combos going on He's a team go He ain't no combo If if

If All right next team We got the Miami Heat All right so this is easy Yeah team go Is Dway And then the most talented Would be

whichever version of LeBron You want to pick You're not going to say Shaq Yeah You think you're funny like making that joke. It's just not a funny joke like you guys are just wrong in the TikTok before really disrespectful in 2001 chat. So like, okay, Kiki, right?

We got our laughs out. We're good. We got it. All right. Thanks. Thanks. Okay. Let me go to the next.

Bro. Bro, you think you're funny. I've heard this is like high school and middle school. I love those arguments. ridiculous. That's hilarious. Next up. The Oklahoma City Thunder.

Man, this is pretty easy, too. Where? Russell Westbrook is the team goal for what he stands for. Mr. O.K.C. Storyline is actually carrying hard, and he won an MVP. But everyone's not dumb. When it comes to it. Katie is the greatest player of all time before that city.

Easy. Yeah, definitely more talented. So, yeah, again. Oh my god, this fuck. My phone is switching the camera. Yeah. Damn. But yeah, pretty easily.

Pretty easily. Russ Goat, K.D. Most Allented. Yeah. Yeah. No, it doesn't matter what way you slice it, bro. What you said? I said, no arguments here. Yeah.

Well, listen, you have to say a couple more years. I don't know. No. I'm just kidding. You must be wearing a pair of skims. That's the only reason why you said that. Moe talks about skims more than anybody that. know he's definitely I just saw a commercial it's always fresh in my mind the world is

trying to tell me yeah you ask him is bad we got to you some skins just there you were moved by that put it in the production budget it's probably it's probably same isn't it that's maybe you said maybe uh all right next team the new york nix who do we say donovan was last time Do we, do we land on? I think we set it on Walt Frazier. Yeah. Yeah. We, okay.

So, Grace is obviously either you or Walt Frazier, Eileen Walt Frazier. Yeah, because he has the, he has the chips. Man, Grades is,

I mean, most talented is crazy. Yeah, I don't know. Who's most talented? I mean, listen, if you want to get mellow propaganda off,

you can try and throw his name in there. I'm not going to pick him, but I'm not going to, but let's go, let's go. Yeah, no. I think Ewing is probably more talented.

Yeah, I would be new Pete Ewing's disgusting Yeah, so I think we go Frazier and Ewing for this one Easy But you also could just go Frazier for both I don't know Nah

Yeah, give Ewing in respect It was good Alright next up The Nuggets Oh, this is easy Yeah, this is easy Yeah Yeah

Yeah, it's no, it's a joke for both. Yeah. Yeah. Clemsweet. Yeah, it's not even close. Shout out Mello. We can say his name in the TikTok, but we're not going to pick him. Sorry.

His jersey should be retired. Next thing. Did you do that double retirement? Whatever. Next to you, the Memphis Grizzlies. You disrespected me and my morals too much in this TikTok. I don't appreciate it. I don't like it.

Okay. This is a walk off set. Okay. Now we're in the trenches. Mark Gassal, Powell Gassal, Zach Randolph, we thinking Tony Allen, Tanner Parsons.

Markisle is definitely the goat. Markisaw is definitely the goat. Is John Morant already more talented than Marcusal? I think he's definitely more talented than Marcusal. I mean, but it's talented. It's like, that just means like he could jump higher?

Because like, Because, like, he can't shoot, you know, like, he's not, he's not, he's not, he's not, he's not, he's not, he's not, he's not, he's not, I like, I'm comfortable saying Jaws probably the most handsome player in history. It's, it's early, but, you know, there's not a ton of competition. I'd be cool giving it to him. Yeah, exactly. I think if you compare their first few, what, three, four, five years of their career, minus all the dumb stuff that John Morant did on the NBA, outside of the NBA court or whatever, I think Jaws run has been more impressive. For sure. You listen, he's not their highest IQ player of all time, on or off the court. But listen, he was all NBA. He was great before he lost his mind. All right, exactly. All right, he got it.

All right, that's the end of that. That's funny. Next thing we got, Mo, I think you have some NBA player lookalikes to show us. Yeah, man. We got some hilarious NBA player lookalikes. I want you to guess which NBA player this is. Okay, let's go. What NBA players is this?

Sheen from Jimmy Neutron. That's the goat. That's the goat. That's Duncan Robinson. Yeah, iconic look alike. I love this one. Y'all are on the money with this one. Y'all got this quick as hell.

Yeah. I'm never going to be able to see Sheen, see an episode of Jimmy Neutron, and not think of Miami Heat Legend, Duncan Robinson. But what? It's in my brain, wherever. Where is a correlation? It's in the, it's just in the facial structure. He just looks like it. No lips.

No lips. Same hair This year's Sometimes two people just look alike and you can't explain it This is what's happening here Facts Begin told that you were just Good

No say it's Some people are just born into the world Doppelgangers and it's something works out that way But being doppelgangers with a cartoon That's um I will never say right with me I'm sorry man Like it's his fault like listen I know.

How could he do this, man? How could he look like that? So Jimmy Neutron ruin his life. I think he's all right. What's next? Ooh. Oh, next up, we got this Gothic painting.

Who is this? Who is this man? This is, listen, this is this Whack commissioner. That's Adam Silver. He looks like him for no reason. Adam Silver. on Ancestry.com immediately because there's something about their lineage that you don't know about.

He has a medieval face. This man has been around for some generations. Facts. I ain't go lie. I almost put, you know, you ever watched the pinky in the brain? I almost picked the brain for him to too. No, I don't know if he has an iconic look. He looks like a cartoon character come to life. Yeah, exactly. It just looks so stern. What was next? Ooh. Now this, this is Binyam Mohamed. Who? Who?

This is someone history lesson. This is someone who was falsely accused of a terrible crime. But he's a free man. This is LeBron? Donovan, your guess? Okay, now that Isaac said, I can see. Yeah, this is LeBron. There we go. I got it. These slow channels are killing me.

Yeah. I've never seen that face before, but the beard just screams, Brian. It wasn't the beer. Braun just right here in the eyes. Yeah, that's it. Yeah, the beard, the nose eyes. It's just like, he has such a copy and pasteable face. It's crazy.

Yeah. I don't think anybody's ever said that about LeBron. A copy and pastable face. But it's weird because we've never, we always see like weird ass. versions of LeBron double gangers everywhere do you just go outside and see bronze nah bro yes I see bronze all the time now they ain't six eight and two sixty

but I see him that's what's the next who is this player is this Stephen A. Smith that's hilarious who does he look like but this is indeed but I know who this is though who is his lookalike this is Otto Porter

oh It could be. It could be. But this is not the one-to-one look-alike. They played the same position. Stephen A play point guard. It's a point guard? Yeah.

Oh. Oh, is this podcasting's finest? Yes. You are correct. This is Jeff Teague, a.k.a. the next Stephen A. Smith of podcasting. The media legend. Already a better podcaster than he ever was a point guard,

and I think he would agree to that. Damn. incredible that hurt me oh yeah and he was a good ass point guard too but that podcast is hilarious yeah man this is Jeff Teague he looks exactly like him

eyebrows and just like the fake thin mustache is just like I never would have thought that's Jeff Teague looks like same it's crazy it's crazy alright what's next

the OG concerned meme who is this NBA player I feel like this can turn racist real fast No, no, no, they're not white They're not white I'll be like Listen, loki

This is a black man This looks exactly like Grayson Allen No Not even close Now that was charged What are you? I was going to say no lips

That's Grace and Allen This player is not in the NBA anymore He was drafted in 2016 No draft in 2016 Supposed to be a demigod 2016 Draft it Is this

Drafton 20s Is this Dragon Bender No Wrong demigod Damn They give up Oh is this Is that Josh Jackson's draft?

Yeah, no. Yeah, this is Josh Jackson Draft, but not Josh Jackson. Yeah, nobody thought Josh Jackson was a demigod. What, no, every, every, everybody thought that Josh Jackson was really his frail face. Yeah. I don't know, I don't even, I'm looking at the stick figure. I don't know. Let's go ahead of reveal. Stick figure was correct. Thon Maker. How could you not? How could I possibly look at that and see Thorn Maker?

This is somehow, how could you not see? Allen like this is just pulling this picture you you set him up I would have guessed on maker I would have been looked at sideways oh man why'd you know that the head shake was so distinct for thorn I hope he's doing well that's good for thon maker what's next oh Travis Kelsey. Listen, is this New Orleans own, Yonis Valanchunis? You are correct. Nice.

I had to get an easy one in there for you guys. Let's go. It's ridiculous how I don't like they look. Yeah, I never would thought about this, but I immediately saw it too. This is, this is great. I hope he's dating a lookalike of Taylor Swift. There's probably a lot of European woman looks like her. Who cares if it's a lookalike?

She used to have that same bag that Taylor Swift have. That's important, Jonas. It's priority. Hard to replicate that level of wealth, so I'm not going to set that bar for him. That is true. What's next? Dang, how many? Oh, okay.

We got, yeah, we got, what's, where's he the star from? Impossible Joker's actor. Who is this man? From impractical jokers. Yeah. Impractical jokers. We got impractical jokers actor. I love why you don't know his name.

I know. Yeah, I think his name is Joe, but I'm not 100% sure. Yeah. Well, I don't know. know his lookalike's name this is frank fogle that is correct i saw immediately i thought i was looking at frank bogle now these guys are brothers the deep dark guys

ridiculous yeah these guys go way back they need to the room needs to have some serious conversations with his parents because there is no way around other than them being other than being brothers exactly yeah something's up here

i need a DNA test now get them on more That would be crazy. That's crazy as hell. Who is this lookalike? Guys and Adam crying. Is this Drew Holliday? He just released a nasty mixtape too.

Said Drew Holiday? Yeah. Donovan, what's your guy? This is Drew Holiday. You are wrong. He has someone who looks even more look like him. Is this Tori. Is this Terrence Man?

No and no wrong black dude with dreads Dan, I'm about to start naming a whole bunch of you don't tell me Let's go run it real star with the east No Who you say? No Huh? Is it not really? Oh Dark-skinned Cole Anthony

Even close. Marvin Harrison, Jr. No. Who the hell is that? Is that a real player? NFL prospect. Sounds like a 2K generator player.

It's really. Damn. No, I gotta go through Roses. I got to figure out who this is. I don't know. I thought it was true. I thought it was due to. No.

This is Tyrese maxi. Oh. Look, this picture's insane. Oh, my God. See, even Syria wants to chime in. Shut up. It's not your turn. Yeah, I would never want to guess Maxie.

That's hilarious. Yeah, same chin hair and the same length of hair too, so it's Tyrese. Once again, had a small audio issue. So you heard those last couple parts of that TikTok where, again, using my camera audio. My bad. Next thing we're going to do, Donovan, I think you have some conspiracy theories run by us. 100%. Listen, you know, the NBA community is always looking because the NBA is always up to something.

So I have some conspiracies You guys let me know if you guys think that they're real or not If they are fact or cap And so yeah man Okay, let's get started So the first one I love a good theory So the first one

LeBron and Steph Curry Were given super serum at birth Making them Scientific experiments We think LeBron James is the winter soldier And fucking Steph Curry is Captain America He's more like Hawkeye because of his aim But yeah

that's crazy listen same hospital is a crazy coincidence some kind of witchcraft was afoot yeah and no one even really i feel like no one really even knew this until like step curry actually started being a generational talent back in 2015 2016 that's when it was brought up to everyone's attention so there has to be some type of wizardry happening behind this bro yeah there's no way in hell yeah listen let's go fast it's it's fact they didn't want to make step like super, super strong, right? And so his version kicked in a little bit later, but nah, he's a cheat code.

So, yeah, this is fact. I love it. These pictures are ridiculous. Next one. Danny Green and Otto Porter are actually brothers. Damn! I've never seen this one. I've seen the Auto Porter and a wilt one.

I've never seen Danny Green. There's a lot of conspiracies about who is in Autoporter's bloodline because apparently everybody looks like him. A lot of family members Yeah Audupor just looks like everybody He just got one of those faces I'm going facts

This would be a great discovery Yeah Autoporter had He possibly might have Some of the greatest NBA bloodline ever Because apparently it's everybody Yeah

This is a better bad They're passing the ball family For the greatest basketball family of all time Love that All right Fact Next one

The 2019 lottery Here's some information. Oh, my God. Listen, Mo, if you don't tell Siri to shut up, all right? This is ridiculous, bro. Take that fucking walk off. Please. This is ridiculous.

Keeps on. Throw out the window. All right. The next one. The 2019 lottery was rigged so that the Lakers could trade for Anthony Davis. This is an absolute fact. If you look back in time, the Norris Pelicans had the lowest attendance in the entire NBA, The second lowest, guess what?

The Memphis Grizzies. They got the number two overall pick. And so they had to go ahead and spice up the NBA. And on top of that, AD had to become a pelican. It's a fact. Listen, the Lakers jumped to four. They didn't have the fourth best odds. All these things together facilitated the deal that brought LeBron the next era of his contending.

That brought LeBron the next era of a championship window. I think I can rock with this one. We knew the NBA was conspiring. against Michael Jordan to push the LeBron Go agenda, and we still stand for it. All right, now you lost me. This is fact. We all know.

Never mind, Cap. It's not true. You lost me. We know it. Fair and square. All right. The next one. Steph Curry didn't win finals MEP because Nike made the call to not give it to him

because they were upset. He went to underarmor. Bam. Like, let's give it to Andre. Nike just really loves it. They made the call Buffalo Wild Wing style. They made, they did it, they pushed the button, and they made sure this didn't happen. Man, it was like, I want Igadala.

Yep. That is, now that is right there, Donovan, true generational hating. This level is the biggest thing in Curry's career, man. Len E Goddala get that goddamn MVP. I have to say, Cap. I think the voters are just fucking dumb. I'm going to go with that. You going cap?

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, the voters. just idiots and this Rob Curry, Fairton Square. They're just morons. Yeah, exactly. I agree. All right, we'll see, we'll see. All right, the next one.

Michael Jordan bought the Hornet so he can try and mess up LeBron's legacy from within. Okay, explain. Again. He wanted to take part in everything that the NBA had to do moving forward. So he had firsthand ability to potentially tear down LeBron James. I think he helped LeBron's legacy by fielding a horrible team in his conference. for 10 straight years that would just be

four free wins to LeBron every season he failed at his mission but his mission nonetheless was to spite LeBron even if he was to spite LeBron he did nothing

but make himself look dumb because LeBron is proven fact a better team builder than Jordan is the only blemice that LeBron has on his resume

is wanting to trade for Rosal Westman but other than that he's a better GM yeah I think this actually hurt LeBron let's go fact I think LeBron

let's go a fact I think Michael Jordan is crazy enough that he'll do anything to try to have leg up. He's a, he takes things personally. He's a psychopathist for it. All right. Last one. Scott Foster is actually betting

on all the games he refs against CP3. That's why Chris stays losing. Listen, whether it's betting, a personal vendetta, a voodoo doll in the back of his car, something is going down that makes him have a serious problem with Chris Paul

and it needs to be investigated. And I'm okay with this being the one we decided. This man is making money. He's making money off of these games. When it comes to beefs in the NBA, number one is Draymond and Rudy Gobert. Number two is Scott Foster versus CP3. It has to be a fact.

The NBA is even pushing better now. Scott Foster is getting a humongous bag in the back end. No way around. Listen, last time these two matched up head to head, Chris Paul was on live TV, say you're a bitch. We're maybe three games away from. fisticuffs. This is getting crazy.

Someone said this is like Peter Griffin fighting the chicken every time of season. This is hilarious. Oh my gosh. It is on site. It's never ending. There's some personal abuse behind the scenes. There has to be.

That man is gambler. Yeah, man. That's all I got. Love it. I love some conspiracy theories. I love getting unsirious. Next thing we're going to do, we're going to go back to another guest

to player. Last time we get somebody lookalike, this time we're going to get a little more serious we're going to guess the NBA player based on the teams they played for so you'll see you know the list of the list of icons of these franchises and what they guess who's who is this in order let's do it roughly yes yes there yeah I'll say yes yes it is an order actually so guess which NBA player you think this is first off this guy who played for six teams okay so for the audio listeners you play for the pelicans clippers rockets O KC

sons and the Warriors so he's either last play for the Warriors or he's currently on the Warriors this isn't all current players so I wouldn't go thinking anything is currently so these players is all the time yeah

yeah some of them were retired not all of them but some of them are I bet this is recently retired though hmm okay why do you see that because ah damn see I almost said this is the most random name Omir Ossick

oh my rosh is a crazy pool for a tic time yeah yeah it's not him it's not him he's not he's not bring it in the new orleans did they start in new orleans the first team is always where they started okay so it's new ones okay am so it can't be eric gordon not at omere osic obviously this is this is so easy it's so easy i don't know why i don't know why i took this long This is, this is Christopher Emmanuel Paul. Oh. It's overrashy. No, it's not.

No, it's not. I don't know why it took me so long to get this fuck, man. It's because the Pelicans logo was changed. Yep. Yeah, that's what got me. That's what got me. All right. Next up, who is this player?

So this player was on the Wizards, Clippers, 76ers. Lakers, Golden State Warriors, and the Denver Nuggets. Okay. Okay. So started with the Wizards names. Or he's currently on the Nuggets. Come on. So TikTok, start talking.

Yeah. Okay. So Washington Wizards. Bro, there's so many goddamn Wizards player in that trash-ass era. But I kind of want to. Oh, damn. What? No, a wizard's draft pick doesn't tell you shit.

Exactly. It really does it. This could be like so many players. That's the fuck's it up for me. Now, more so I want to focus on the Lakers. I want to focus on the second stint of his career because I think that'll tell me a little bit more than the first stint.

All right. Okay. So what are you thinking? Because I have no idea because I'm stumped right now. I have no idea too, but I'm sensing this is some type of Ford or big for some reason. He's just getting a hype vibe from this? Yeah, no.

I'm lost. I'm lost. I'm lost. I give up on this one. So I'm feeling a good six foot eight shooter. He's a meme. Nick Young. I know it.

God damn it. I knew it. You knew it? You did not know. Shit. You did not know. I always knew. That was good.

This is hard. Who knows he got drafted by as a wizard. That's so easy to forget. Bro, them Gilbert Arena's days were not easy to forget. Gave that man hell. Also, he played less than half a season with the 76ers. So that is Yeah, that right there

threw me in for a little bit Also, how did you play for the next half? Like 17 games Yeah, man, that's wrong. You set us up. All the wild set.

Next up. Who is this player? Might be easier. This is very easy. Mo, can I take this one? Get in your bag. I so,

I so. I so. I so. So this is Damar de Rosen. Correct. Correct, Compton's finest, DeMardo. Easily went from the Raptors to the Spurs to the Bulls. There's, listen, by the end of this year, there's going to be another team on that list.

Cool. Might be, it might be the hometown Lakers, I don't know. Ew. I see the future. I hope not. Yeah, that's gross. All right, next up. Who is this player?

Dallas Mavericks, Phoenix, Suns, Brooklyn Nets, now the New York Knicks. Okay. Brain blast, Don. We got a brain blast going on? Trying to think, trying to think. plan for both new york teams i got it i got it damn up this is this wait am i wrong i don't know i'm gonna i'm gonna guess anyways is this jason kid oh this is jason kids carry me to victory show me the lights here we go love it i ain't get one of these holes yet let's do it i feel like

Jeff T. back in 2021. Let's do it. I ain't doing shit and I'm getting a. All right.

Next up. Who is this player? Okay. So Pelicans, Denver Nuggets, Knicks, Caves, and Lakers.

Should be an easy one, I think. Oh. What? Oh, no. He said,

oh, you got it? Say whoever comes to mine. Nah, I don't got it. It don't make any sense. It don't make any sense.

because this player never paid for the Knicks or the Cavs. I was going to, or the Pelicans, yeah, that was nowhere near close. I was going to say KCP, but not even close. You got two out of the 16. Yeah, that's not even close. Fuck. Dang, this is tough. This is.

It's really not. I promise you, this is not done. Give us a slide. We're going to be upset at ourselves. You should be. Play for your team. Huh? Ooh.

You play for your team. Look at it. I mean, listen, do you know how many people roll in to the Knicks? Like five years, five years ago. Once he got to February, you put your name in a raffle. You could play it for the Knicks. You could have did that. Guys give up.

Caves and Lakers. Dang, I thought I was rolling. Give it was a slight hint. Slight hint, slight hint, slight hint. I can't. I don't know how to hit this without it being obvious. Oh, my gosh. Tell us the name.

Tell us. You guys are fucking failures. This is J.R. Smith this one I do not okay did the pelicans you keep putting always pelicans logo where it should be a hornet's logo you're setting us up yeah you're setting us up yeah yeah Nick's Cavs Lakers there's only one man this could be yeah that hurt that hurt me you should be ashamed I am I failed the Henney God I was I was giving I was giving wrong information

The Hennie God is hilarious. Alright, next team, next player. Who is this player? Okay. Bulls, Knicks, Cass. Okay, I got this one. I got this one. I got this one.

I'm back on it. I'm back on it. I'm calling the ISO mom. Okay. Iso. This is... Get the fuck out the way. This is the youngest MVP in league history.

This is Derek Rose. This hurts. Correct. This is Derek Rose. God damn it. This is Derek Rose. It's not supposed to be like this. Wasn't supposed to be a journey.

Amen, but here we are. Damn. Hey, he hurt right now, too. That's so sick. He actually started today. They actually put him in the starting lineup. Oh, my God. He started.

They're so down bad. They're down. Oh, my God. All right. What do we got left? I think we have one more video left. We're going to blind rank some NBA jerseys. Oh.

Okay. I love a good line. We've done it with players. Now we're going to do it with cosmetics. It's going to be great. With aesthetic. Rank. Yep.

be fantastic. So without further ado, blind rank these NBA jerseys. First up, the Warriors throwbacks. I love these Donner. These are clean. These are great clean. They're hard. Where are we going? I want to put these at a saw two or three. Let's let's go. Let's go. Let's go. Let's go see. I think there's better jerseys on on what. These are tough. They are they are they are. They've been missed. Okay. Okay. Let's keep our options. Let's keep our options. Okay. Three is okay. I remember number three if you screw me over Okay Next up

The Utah Jazz Gradient jersey I was like four five Five you hate these They are not hard as fuck They are the opposite of the hardest fuck You're crazy these are You can never wear this out in public What is? Block gradient

Are you gross? It's dope Take your ass back inside if you bought this jersey man get your refund Ew Blocking gradient put put at the end yeah five five for sure oh you're crazy okay next up the Miami heat fuck no now this is five damn this is terrible we messed up we messed up we hated too hard too quick trash oh man too fast too furious yeah no this is gross the collision between

these two cotton candy ass colors do not mix well at all an abominations Yeah, this is, we got to put that point, though. Cosmo and Wanda as Jersey. This is terrible. Fairly caught here. Cosmo and Wanda's crazy. Yeah, nah. These are a snow cone.

We have no choice but to put that set for, right? Yeah. Oh, man, I'm sick. Got to put that four. Tough. Next up. The Wizard City jersey. Oh, Donovan, you screwed me so bad.

Oh, my gosh. That's on, that's on me. Listen, moving forward, we just have to know that Isaac is. going to be playing around. Like, he's just going to be serious with the list. And we just have to be prepared for that. That's on me, because we've done several blind rankings

and I haven't been, I didn't pay attention. I didn't study film. So that's on me, Coach. I cannot fathom to disappoint you brought upon me on the greatest of the deepest of the three. Listen, I'll be better. You, man.

I'm going to be in the lab, right? I'll be watching film. We have to be better. But. So he's number two? Unfortunately, yeah. But, but honestly, but he's probably,

going to put an even worse one at one knowing how this is wrong this is terrible listen you fucked up putting this at two but rest assured number one is the lakers black mamba jersey who we ain't going all sad now this is the easy number one for sure our list is cooked but it's not that cooked yeah easy easy for sure i i think the worries had a they had they have a shot that's a strong jersey knowing what i know now i would have a strong jersey but i would have those I won. Listen, you do got the worst jersey of all time.

I mean, you do have the worst jersey list of all time, but at least the top of it. I didn't know. Yeah. I was fine. Yeah, man. That's the brand ranking.

And that also means this is the conclusion of the episode. Donovan, if people are still here, what should they comment? Comment? Let me get this. Go ahead. Go ahead.

Iso. What should they get? Nikiel the Weep. Let's do it. Expose this, man. Okay, if we're still here, comment, Nikiel is a weeb. A reference, you spell Nikil by saying,

N-I-K-H-I-L is a weeb. There we go. Perfect. Go to hell. Go ahead. That was perfect. Love it. It's a great episode.

Nikiel is a weeb. Producea Nikol as a Weeb. Let's go. See y'all Monday, 8 p.m. Easter time. Thanks. Back. Tune for the next stream. We'll be there.