The Deep 3 Podcast - Making Our Official 2025 NBA Predictions | Ep. 111

Episode Date: October 18, 2024

Making out official predictions for the 2025 NBA season! Check out the TD3 merch: https://the-deep-3-shop.fourthwall.com/ Listen on Spotify!: https://open.spotify.com/show/3elbbqVumwqz8wlIdknsLW Listen on Apple Podcasts!: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-deep-3-podcast/id1657940794 Follow us on TikTok!: https://www.tiktok.com/@thedeepthree Follow us on Instagram!: https://www.instagram.com/thedeep3podcast/ Isaac's twitter: https://twitter.com/byisaacg Muhamed's twitter: https://twitter.com/Mojo99_ Donnavan's twitter: https://twitter.com/Dsmoot3D 0:00- Intro 3:40- West Standings 1:13:24- East Standings 1:43:00- NBA Awards 2:07:10- tiktok time Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Y'all, I have spent the last 52 weeks, a calendar year, 365 days waiting for this episode. Tense grass! We've had basketball in the last 365 days. I know, I know. But this episode in particular is special to me, because as you guys see it by the title, this is the season predictions episode. And, you know, every year, as an NBA fan, we all have predictions, even when you don't have a podcast. you kind of talk to your friends, write things down, think about who you expect to do everything. Last year is the single worst year I've ever had in my life of predictions.

I need redemption so bad. Dude, if you look back to last year, we were on bullshit. We thought the Timberwolves would be in the playing. We thought the Mabbs would be in the playing. I said the Hornets would make the playing. It was a terrible year. And today we're going to do a better job. I'll say that.

I'll make the bold prediction that we are going to do better than we did last year. I said that the Mabs had a ceiling of 500 last year. you. You were a hate. That's crazy. You're a hater. I was not a fan. Not to be fair, they changed the whole team in the middle of the season, but who cares? Yeah. I'll go. Yeah. Yeah. I'm fine with that one. The Timberwolves is where we missed horribly. Many people did, but we were very adamant. Like, oh my God, they need a trade cat. What are we doing? Which they did. And then they, listen. Yeah, we weren't wrong. We just weren't right necessarily. We're just early. Just early. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly.

But yeah, man, like I said, we're going to predict the standings in the West, the standings in the East, every single NBA award winner, and really just plant our flags and what our agendas are for the year. You guys are going to know who we're high on, who we're low on. And again, even last year, you guys saw that episode, and you held us to it all year because you reminded us over and over again every time we were wrong. So all I'm saying is when we do better this year, remind us when we're right. Let me see that in my mentions. This is where our legacies are made, brick by brick, quote. I quote, yap by yap, tongue flapping of the tongue flapping. Let's do it.

Let's lock in. This is where we're going to be held or have to hold each other accountable with these takes for the next seven months. Let's lock, yeah, let's do it. I'm ready. Before we get into it. There we go. We are here.

We are here. I put my something down. Before we get into it, I got to remind you guys that this coming Tuesday, NBA opening nights, hope you guys are watching before that day, we are going to be in Boston at the NBA on TNT Road Show, which is like a whole NBA festival outside of the Boston Arena before the game starts. We're going to be there doing a live show in person at 4.30 p.m. Eastern Time. And if you guys want to come, all you have to do is show up at City Hall Plaza. You can come watch us. You can watch the NBA on TNT guys inside the NBA do their live show

taping after, a concert from Shaboozy, Benson Boone, a whole bunch of other stuff and festivities. Again, no tickets required. All you got to do is show up. You have the link in the description. link in the pin comment you can check it out and see the full schedule it's a lot of stuff but really I just need you guys to come and watch us it's free 99 come pull up and have a good time

exactly anybody in the Boston area any Celtics fans I want to come laugh at Mo for hating them and they'll have no watch them win the championship come through laughing music hilarious let's roll

can I do it can I do it yep let's go yeah there we go let's go The cranium is crazy. Oh my God. I mean, I don't know what to say.

Pray on eaters rejoice. So we're going to start this off with the Western Conference because to me, by far the most interesting part of the episode, this is going to be incredibly difficult. I don't know if you're aware, but the Western Conference has a lot of good teams in it. And we are tasked with ordering those teams knowing that they're all going to be

like a game apart from each other in reality but nevertheless we have to have strong opinions about which team is better I struggle with this mightily you're not the only one who struggle with this mightily I mean it's like it feels like every single year we are saying the same exact things about the Western Conference

which is the West being so damn tough the West being a bloodbath and all that and I feel like now it feels like the same thing maybe even more than ever at this point in time because there could be a legit like 10 teams maybe even 11, 12 teams in the Western Conference that genuinely are quality teams that deserve to be in the playoffs. Bro, there's 14 teams that have a chance of making the play in.

You're being real. That's not dramatic. That's not dramatic at all. And I think for the top six, there's about eight teams that are good enough to be top six quality. So some of you guys are going to see us put your team a little bit lower than you like. Just know, we don't hate them. In fact, I speak for myself, think every team in the top nine is like really good

and could get as high as five. So, sorry some of you guys, you're not going to be happy with this, but just no, we all think it's close. Okay. So we're starting off in the West with the bottom five teams. Donovan, you're up first. Tell us you have 11 through 15. Okay. At 11, we have the Golden State Warriors missing the play-in altogether.

At number 12, we have the San Antonio Spurs. Number 13, we have the Los Angeles Clippers. At 14, I have the Utah Jazz. And at 15, obviously, the worst team in the conference, the Portland. Trowblazers. No disagreement there. We've got to say I almost forgot. We're recording this at 12.15 p.m. Pacific Standard Time. So just afternoon on Thursday, October 17th. Literally a minute before we press record, Shams reported that Kauai Leonard is going to miss an indefinite amount of time to start the year as he rehabs the inflammation in his right knee. So keep in mind,

we made these lists before that news came out. We all are probably going to lower them a little bit now because if kawai's gone there obviously going to be like maybe the second worst team in the conference so some adjustments need to be have but we didn't have time to do it yet a hundred percent i like you said i thought that the clippers were going to be trashed before the news came out but obviously now that they are without kawai for it an indefinite amount of time i wanted to put them where utah is but utah also goes into tank mode in the second half of the season so i can't necessarily do that but This is insanely massive because we've joked around for a pretty good part of the offseason,

saying like, oh, what would be the funniest scenario for the clipper season? And it would be that they have the season from hell and that they get the number one pick and it goes to Oklahoma City. That's in play now. That is in play. We know Kauai's knees and his lower legs are just cooked by all means. And if he misses what, half the season, three quarters of the season, they might not. He might miss the whole season if they're bad enough.

When he fucking retires? Who knows? I mean at this point. They sent him home. They sent him home from the Olympics. They said he was going to be ready for training camp. He's not. They said he was going to be ready for opening day.

He's not. Now we're going to have to see 36-year-old James Hardin run Luca ball now and try to, you know, try to play the way that he was playing in 2019. This is a disaster of epic proportions. And honestly, it makes me think, what the hell? they thinking signing kawai to the extension and not paul george like i can't i can't fathom the mistake that it was knowing all the injuries that kawai has knowing his history and saying yes we're going to pick him over paul george i feel like that's one of in the last like 10 years it's a it's one

of the biggest mistakes in in like in the NBA picking kawai over paul george yeah i mean i can understand it in terms it's like uh bigger name and kawai is eventually going to if anyone's going to lead us to a championship and it's going to be behind his name not paul george but at the same time paul george shows up naturally way more often ironically if they're both hurt or neither of us are going to see them further at least paul george the first two weeks of the season but i agree we too it's generational mismanagement and it's going to come back to bite them come june it doesn't make this just this just broke we haven't really had time to think about it shams going on tv as we speak and he's going to give more details

But first thought, would you be shocked if he missed the whole season? No. How could you be? How could you possibly be surprised by that? No. Yeah, I'm not, anything that has to do with Kauai Leonard and missing games, I'm not surprised by it. You can tell me that he's going to miss. Honestly, the less amount of games that he misses, the more shock that I am.

If he comes back in a week, I'd be like, oh, wow, that's kind of quick. But we've seen Kauai miss long stretches of time. And it's just, this is such a, like, terrible situation for them. Shout out to them for having the Intuit Dome. Like, I'm glad you guys have the new thing. But this is exactly the situation that you didn't want to be in where this is the only reason in my mind where I can see them saying, okay, we have to keep Kauai is because, okay, we have a new stadium and you don't just want it to be James Hardin basketball in

24. Like, you know, come, come watch us play. That's exactly what you. what they have now. It's James, it's James Hardin and Norman Powell on the marquee and it's going to be the NBA version of like SoFi Stadium where you're just going to the arena because it's brand new, it's super nice and you want to watch your favorite player for a tenth of the price than like a Lakers game. That's the only reason. That's the only reason why the Clippers are here. The next time I touch down in L.A. and it's, if there's a game, I'm definitely going to go

touch down and tap it with the Clippers game to use the toilets. I heard they're very nice. That's what I'm saying. Massive amount, ain't no long lines, you know, just straight in and out. Yeah, man, we can move off the clippers. They're in despair. More to be more to be heard late in the future. Maybe this coming stream on Tuesday we'll have more details to talk about. But for now, move them down your list.

Outside of that, listen, if this didn't, news didn't break and we thought Kauai would play a requisite amount of Kauai Lender games, call it 55, whatever. I would have said you're out of your mind from the spurs above them. But now I think I'm putting the spurs above them, too. So I don't really have an issue with anything on this list anymore. Yeah, Portland's where they need to be at Utah, 14th. We all know what they are. The Clippers, 13, we just took cover that. The Spurs, me personally, I'm a little bit higher on them.

And about the Warriors, I mean, I'm indifferent. They're the Warriors. I'll tell you that, honestly, 11 and 12 and the overall placement of the Warriors was the hardest thing for me because. It's tough. They're a very tough team. Yeah, because like on one hand, you don't, I don't want to like completely disrespect stuff and say like that they can't get to the 10 seed out west and also i don't want to

overrate what wendy might be able to do this year and it's like yes he finally got chris paul but he got like 39 40 year old chris paul yes he got stephan castle you're adding a rookie yes you got harrison barns it's harrison barns like there's still there's still a lot of things that that they need work on but can they make that jump like can they can they be at 11 maybe And the Warriors just looks so uninteresting. So how we're going to do this is every section I have one of you guys or one of us headlined it with the intro and the other two follow. So let's reveal me and Mo's list because we'll talk about these top two teams.

All right. I have. Again, I had this is before the news. I had the Clippers at 11, the Warriors at 12, Utah at 13, San Antonio of 14 and Portland at 15. Now with the news, I'm going to go ahead and slide the Clippers down to 14 to move everybody up. So I also have Golden State at 11 now. Listen, you hate her

I love Victor Women Yama As much as anybody Including you two Anybody listening Aside as Spurs fans I'm with you guys Why are we pretending this team Is gonna be great

Just because we like Vick so much They're not even great Like good And why are we pretending that Utah Is gonna be the 14th seed Something they've never been Utah is good as hell If you have Will Hardy

You have Lowry Markan And that crazy deep team They have around him They're gonna be competitive I think they're for three years in a row they've tanked in the second half of the year and traded their players

to try to get a medium tier pick and went to 10 every time they didn't go to like the third big in the draft they can't tank that far they're a good team unless they tank from the start

and make huge offloading moves there's no way in my mind they could possibly be 14 at 13 I felt like was too low so now with the clippers going down Utah being 12 I still feel like

I'm giving the Utah like the worst case scenario this team is always good yeah you're okay you're right um so my logic is i'm not flipping them because i believe that the utah jazz will go in and start selling off picks they have to realize a certain point in time like yeah you can play this in middle game which is cool and i like the idea of doing two things at once is interesting but more times than not you're going to have to pick a side and i think this is a few years they do they kind of they kind of do because at this point of time what is what is yeah you're

right they did resigned rari marketing over four years or whatever his contract is and he can't be traded for the entirety of this back of basketball calendar. If something's going to happen, it has to happen during the summer. And me personally, I feel like they're going to come into realization, send off a lot of stuff. There might be a situation where Larry Marking gets shut down for the sake of them trying to capture the flag in Cooper flag during in June. And I just don't see them continuously playing this game.

I feel like them playing both games and landing a mediocre, not a mediocre pick seven or eight because players are players. But at the end of the day, I think no one, if they're going to build or are going to have to build through the NBA draft, you're not signing anyone you saw. And also, you're not, you could trade for someone. That's a very real possibility. Yeah, there we go. That's what they're going to do. They have a lot of marketing and also level player. They have a crazy deep encore. They just added Collier with the 27th overall pick, which is a great steal. Cody Williams obviously coming into there. They have a ton of young talent. They already have one star in place. They have veterans in place

and Jordan Clarkson, John Collins, I'm forgetting who else, they're going to try to make a trade for a star. So they're going to try to be good enough and eventually pair Lowry with the star player, send out those veterans I'm talking about. So you have whoever may be, let's call it, Darius Garland, I don't know,

whoever crashes and burns this year, who's to say? Garland, Lowry, and a bunch of young players, like, that's the play. You said to enter the capture the flag, sweepstakes, you had to take really far to be in that bottom tier to get the one pick.

Yeah. I don't think they'll be able to take that far I think that's going to be out of the realm possibility for them well okay so like they can't yes mathematically you want to give yourself the best chance we've seen people jump up you know sure over the last like four years and we've seen that the pittons who have had the worst record

multiple times have ended up falling to five teams always always get up so if you want to say you want to say you know we will do a little bit of development and take our chances and if we don't get flag then we'll trade for a star. Listen, I'm glad you said Darius Garland, because one of the things that I've been thinking about is, you know, who do they bring in?

And Garland is a name that I've thought of. And Trey Young is a name that I said this last year. I under, listen, I know I said it last year, but I do think that like for Utah, if you do have Trey, you have Trey and Lowry, and then let's say that you end up do getting flag and you have Trey Lowry and Cooper. like that's that's pretty interesting

Danny age isn't going to tank forever at a certain point he is going to be aggressive so I Isaac you've swayed me and especially now that Kauai is out I will put the clippers at 14 and I'll put Utah at 13 you saint but but San Antonio I do think that San Antonio is going to be better than

than you think like they had they wasted half of the season last year What I think is they're the team that's going to shut down the second half of the season and go for a high pick of anything. I think they're the more realistic candidate. These guys they brought in. Harrison Barnes,

salute to the once good player. So Harrison Barnes is cooked. Harrison Barnes is not impactful and got to make him a better team at all, I think. Wow. Like, I think actually at all. And not even a little bit. He was legitimately one of the worst rotation players

in the league last year. Any Kings fan will tell you he's horrible. And I think actually, it's more likely Spurs fans the second half of the year. are like, please fucking bench this guy just start Castle at the 3, I guess. Like, we need to see something else

that's somebody that's going to give us like a little bit of punch. Chris Paul, I like him. Never healthy. Not going to play more than 17 minutes a game. He'll be very good for Webby's development, very good for Castle's development and good to have that guy in the locker room.

I don't think he'll be important for winning. So it really comes down to the biggest addition they make. Do you think Castle's going to be really good as a rookie? Maybe. Is he going to be so good that he like drives winning to a high level? doubt it. He's a rookie. Is Vassell going to make a big jump? Maybe. That's, I guess that's the biggest TBD. And second half of last year, Wembe was already playing at the superstar level that we expect,

averaging 24 points per game, averaging 3.7 blocks per game. Like, I think he'll continue that we saw in the second half of the season. And obviously, all bets are off if he makes a Lucas type leap in year two and is a first team all NBA player, then maybe something crazy can happen. But I don't think anything around him improves the level that I'm going to expect to be better than the teams above him, who we know what they expect with the Warriors, they're going to be good. I mentioned with Utah. We know what's going on with the Rockets and their crazy deep core. We all have them hired for a reason.

The Spurs have nothing outside of just Wembe Hope. So do you think they haven't at least gained, got to a level of just like competence around Wembe with Harrison Barnes compared to what they had last year in Champany or like the Kelton Johnson's the world who's getting eating up OD Minutes? And like, I'm not sure Harrison Bonn's going to be that much better than Kelvin Johnson. But do I think they'll be competent? Yes. We're not going to see first half of the season

Spurs. So right there. I want to stop you right there. So my logic is if you have that competency and also if Wembe raises the level that a lot of us are assuming that he will raise to, this team should naturally be. Now I have them higher than you guys obviously, but not that much higher. I don't have him in the next tier.

Holy shit. Yeah. That's why I'm going for bad. That's why I'm going for bat for him. Just a little bit. Not that much higher, but they're a little bit higher. So if Wembe is who y'all are telling me who he is,

and they sign someone like Harrison Barnes who's not tanking your team but it's also not, again, very productive. We're going to stop saying his name. He doesn't matter. He doesn't matter. He has a name. Respect the Tarheel. What are you?

Respect the Tar Hill. That's not what we're going to do. What is Harrison Barnes done to you guys? Not making a bad thing. The Fawn Castle, the influence of CP3. Mess up to 73 and 19. Devin Vassell and his growth in projection. I think having these three, four guys who can at bare minimum, not be what they were last year. And including, obviously, it's a huge X factor in Wemby's growth. Can he hit

that, like you said, Luca type level, average 25, 26, potentially be the defensive player of the year. They should not be in this tier. They absolutely should be, though. And it's not, I'm with you. You know the thing is, I agree with you that they're going to be better for the regions you think. Obviously, I don't think as much as you do. But it's just. about the teams above them. Like obviously the clippers are down now so they're out of the equation but right above them Utah for all the reasons I just mentioned they're always good they have an elite coach they have a star player who is for last year around as good as went be right now and then they have a much better supporting cast obviously I think Utah's

better for that reason golden state they're golden state it's I don't got to explain why I think the Steph Curry led team it can still be better than them it's a night and day difference of experience and regular season acumen I mean everybody above them is very competitive I'm going to be trying. And obviously, the reality is somebody's going to get injured and fall down this list. So what would be the clippers, maybe whoever is above them and other team surprises us, that could push the spurs into being close within, you know, toss-shouting range. But if everybody's healthy and everybody's two-plan, I just don't see how they stack up

with these teams above them that are a little bit older and more experienced. I don't, I agree with Mo's logic. And as somebody who really, really believes in Wembe, I don't think it's. it's crazy to think that that they do make, make the play in. And like, I've, you know, I've sat here for the last year saying like he's, you know, going to be this and he's going to be that. And if he's on this projection of what Luca was doing, like Luca had his team in the playoffs in year two. And now that this, you know, field has expanded and all you need to do is get to 10, yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm okay with that. Even with Golden State, like, yes, they brought,

they brought in Kyle Anderson and Buddy Heel, when was the last time Buddy Heald played meaningful basketball and, like, helped a team actually, you know, actually get there. And it was a terrible experience. How many, how many games is, is Draymond going to play? Is Steph going to be able to play enough games? Because we've seen him get hurt plenty of times. Like, this is, this is a team that 100%, like, their whole season kind of rests on how good Jonathan Camiga is going to be. And that scares me. That's one of the reasons why I have them outside the plane because I don't have a lot of faith in Kaminga. And so if you tell me...

And what is San Antonio season rest on? How good Vesel can be? How a good castle can be? It's a multitude of guys compared to... I think it is a better bet because you have multiple more... You have more options. It outweighs itself in general, you know? Kaminga has to be the perfect ideal fit

in order for them to not be... I don't say around this range, but yeah, you know what I mean? I know what you're saying. I think Castle's game and I think has a much higher floor. a game. Definitely. I think for 18 minutes a game, Chris Paul can be the smartest player on the floor and do the dumbest, most basic thing and say, oh, yeah, where's this 75 guy?

Let me throw it up nine feet in the air so that only he can catch it. I think that that's possible. And so I think that, yeah, I don't, San Antonio definitely won't be the 14th team in the conference. Yeah, because again, they, I don't think so either because teams are going to get hurt and I can be a set the clippers are down there, but I don't live better than Utah. I don't live better in the Warriors It's just

Again, I mentioned to the start of the episode There's 14 teams out there vying for a spot That they're all respectable So somebody has to be last And I'll bet with the team with the worst roster Outside of the God tiered player Who we're assuming can be God tier in year two But that's not necessarily

Something every Hall of Famer does You know, not everybody immediately Make sure team competitive in year two So Yeah, not everyone, but he will He's just like that I don't know, he's a big man, it's hard Like Luca could do it because he's a guard

and is able to, like, pull offense up high with his style of play. I think Wembe can be just as good, but the style of play and top of the play you are matters. He's not going to be as much of a lift everybody around to that, the guy. He can be a lift, like, defensively. That's what he was last year. But is that enough? Man, they were shit defensively last year with him. Yeah, yeah.

So with this being said, are you moving? Because I kind of forget, and I'm assuming some of the crowd you just forget to. Are the Clippers going to be 14 on your list? Yeah, yeah. Okay. And then you're moving everybody. And you're moving. Yeah.

And you're moving, okay. Cool. Should we talk about Golden State real quick before you move on? Because no, we all have them here. So Warriors fans are going to want to hear why we hate their team. I'm sorry. Your team is broken. Like the, the version of the Warriors that everybody thinks is about to show up is close to like the 22.

Like the, the ideal situation is that you get a 22. situation where you have this amazing step curry season draymond is there and then you have just enough pieces around him right you have comminga playing the andrew wigan's role and on a night to night basis you don't really necessarily know who your second best player is going to be but that's the point is that you are going to it's truly going to be strength of numbers do you have any common sense to look at this roster and be like yeah chase jackson davis gary peyton junior at this point in his career, Buddy Healed, Melton, Kyle Anderson, who, listen, he's, he's been shooting that thing in preseason. Shout to him. But is that collection of guys, an actual group that can

compete in the Western Conference when you have teams above them, like Houston, who is like eight deep off rip with the young core, when you have Sacramento, who has Fox, DeMar, Sabonis, you have the pelicans who have a lot of talent. At a certain point, you can have your top guy, And I guess this would be the argument against San Antonio, but it's still steps. So you got to, you have to give him his respect. At a certain point, other teams are just more talented. And I can't, like, I can't rightfully and confidently say, yes, you're going to be one of the 10 best. Here's the thing.

Everybody, over the last like a few days, I thought there's been a lot of Golden State Warrior hype, people are being like, oh, maybe they'll be better than you think, you know. They had a good win over the Lakers in preseason, which. Those are two different things. Yeah. But they're being hyped for having. the most depth they've ever had in years and all this stuff because they have a lot of good players and I think that's like a little bit true

but their problem isn't whether or not they have depth or not is that the depth is doesn't make sense. They've assembled a roster with a lot of good players so you might be a warrior's fan and you might look up and down and see four good guards. Moses Moody's my fourth guard and rotation that's great. Four good forwards like oh my god where are we going to squeeze in? Kyle

Anderson he's really helpful so and so like there's a lot of good options. The problem is none of them fucking fit together to make a five line up at minimum, your starters, that maximize each other. If you want to have a ceiling, Kaminga has to be a star. We've been saying it all summer. If you want Kaminga to be a star, playing next to Dremont Green, you need a stretch five there. Because Dremont has said that he's at his best playing the four. We all know that to be true defensively. You can't play a traditional five in like Trace Jax Davis and play Kaminga at the three. Your spacing will be

horrendous. That'll be the worst case scenario to maximize Kaminga and get him the necessary touches in the necessary spots to make him have the ability to make that leap. So that's already an issue. Moses Moody is good. We all want to see him thrive. He can shoot. He's probably their best shooter. He hasn't been as just like dynamic of a shooter enough to earn a spot in the rotation.

I think if he was good enough, he would have earned it by now. It's not just that Kerr hates him. It's that there's that there's that they need to get enough passing on the floor, enough defense on the floor, enough size on the floor. And it's just a hodgepodge of players that don't have a good five-man answer to me. that makes them deadlier than a team above them that just has a more clear path there. Yeah, there's just a lot going on. And then although, like, yes, I do see and can agree with the depth of the warriors being there, very vital and important.

But your depth can only take you so far when the top end of your ship is just completely broken. Not step for Jeremy on obviously, but more so I'm just thinking about the guys who are expected to step up. More so in Jonathan Camiga. if there is no infrastructure for him to be set up to be who he is at his peak potential then I just don't envision them like flying up these rankings at all so and also on top of that too like there once like there are a single draymond green incident away from happening from this complete ship capacity good point yeah for much of this list and then these yeah for This whole list, these guys, these teams are very close.

A big, big, big, distinct, like, factor for me to break ties is how equipped you are to withstand injury. That matters a lot every year. And you're going to see that in my logic a lot. So I'm glad you mentioned that because the Warriors are not equipped with sand injury at all. What are the Warriors going to do if Steph Curry, like, rolls his ankle or twist his arm or something like that? Capture the flag. That's what they're going to do. At that point, it's like, you want pods to really go ahead and, like, average 20, 20,

three and like that's just not him that's not his game bro so it's like at this point in time that's why I have him at 12 just like you all right we're almost 30 minutes in on the bottom five in this conference but we can move on but let's go I won't be shocked at the worries make the plan I'll say that and you know with the clippers moving down I now have them at 11 so I think they're right there one injury away they'll be in that range but I will be shocked at their top six so that yeah I just feel like they have a lower ceiling and maybe I'm underwritten the floor a little bit because if you have Steph, you have Draymond, you have Steve Kerr, you're going to be competent. So I could be underrated the floor just a tad bit, but I don't feel the need to gas that when the

ceiling just isn't there. If the Warriors end up genuinely making the playing, it's because Steph, Draymond genuinely had a pretty much healthy season. Draymond has been on his best behavior, no timeout, no in school suspension, and unlike that, he's been there. And then on top of that, too, Kaminga. Wiggins bounce back. I forgot.

I forgot. This is our first time mentioning him. Oh, I forgot. You don't like his team. That's crazy. Yeah, exactly. So what are they going to start? Maybe like Steph, Heald, Wiggins, Kaminga, Dremond.

That's not a ton of space and even with Heald. That's not a ton of size defensively unless Kaminga makes a big-ass leap defensively. My bad Wiggs. Damn, Wiggins. I didn't even forget. I didn't even forget. I just had no reason to say his name because nobody has. Nobody has.

Nobody has the reason to say his name lately. Andrew Wiggins. Wow. What a name. Sounds like a vintage player. All right, man. Next tier. Next year.

Seven through 10, the play in race, Mo, tell us your seven through 10. Heating up. So at number seven, we have the Los Angeles Lakers. Eight, I have the Sacramento Kings. Nine, it pains me. But I have the New Orleans Pelicans. And at 10, I have the San Antonio Spurs. Okay, this is pretty chalk.

Obviously, I think it's a little too high, but we talked about that. That's fair. I end, 10 isn't crazy. So I'm not going to raise hell about that. Yeah. I have the exact same seven through nine, I think. We can just figure the next five. Really?

We'll keep moving. I have Lakers at 7, 8, Sacramento, nine pelicans, no difference is 10 is Houston. Yeah. Well, for me, I have Phoenix at 7, New Orleans at 8, Houston at 9, and Sacramento at 10.

Oh, my God. A little fucking divide. Sacramento at 10. A little bit of a difference. Okay. Yeah, so I guess where are we started? Okay, Sacramento. Let's talk about them first.

Let's start with the lesser important one. Sacramento fans. Kings fans like, what the fuck? The fuck you mean. What do we do? Sorry, isn't that what I meant. I meant because I see Phoenix, and I have a lot to say about Phoenix, but we're going to get sack out of the way.

I honestly feel like eight. I'm putting sack out. I feel like I'm putting sack around a little bit too low. I think they're going to have regular season equity to get wins and look more like they were two years ago with DeMar in there. So I feel like they could be seven and like maybe they can be six. Ten to me feels great. Putting them below Houston feels a big crazy to me.

Below Houston's insane. What do you see in Houston in order for them? Because I had them in my lower tier. I had them at 11. So you're putting a lot of faith. You're putting a lot of faith in unknowns to make a jump, which I understand. The logic isn't crazy.

But I'm not sure we've seen enough outside of Sangu to like assume those jumps will happen, you know? Yeah. And that's, listen, I understand. I think that I'm putting a lot of faith in EMA to continue building what he already has been. I think that last year, last year the rockets had two like really interesting um like stretches they had they had a stretch

where they just could not win on the road and they they were like they were like two and 14 or something like that and it was crazy i think that evens itself out a little bit and then you had the the long win streak at the end of the season it you can't really bank on like 14 15 game win streaks every year so i think that that comes comes back but at the same time i think that for a team that ended up at 500 and you are going to, you know, assuming you have your best player for a majority of the year, yeah, I kind of like that. And I also think that by the end of the year, we will actually have a, like, legitimate two guard in the starting spot.

And I think that Reed Shepard is actually going to come in and do a lot for this team. And you still have your adults in the room. You still have Dylan Brooks. You still have Fred Van Blee. You have Emey there. Asking for, what, three more games, three more wins? for a team that has already been together, I'm not, I don't,

I actually don't think that it's that crazy to ask Houston to be in the nine spot. You know, it's not crazy at all. I think, again, I have a 10, what to do. But, again, I think Sacramento is going to be probably like the ninth or 10th offense and a medium-tier defense. Last year, Houston was a top 10 defense.

I think that's replicable with the E-MA stuff you're talking about. That's mostly coaching. I think that's fine. Offensively, they were 23rd in rim scoring, and 21st and three-point scoring efficiency for both those. I'm not sure that's going to be a whole lot better this year. I think the offense is still going to be a little stagnant. Maybe Reed Shepard is going to be like a star immediately,

which I think is very possible. That's my guy. I think he's going to be the real deal there long term. But I'm not sure he's going to have the minutes load to make a huge impact as a rookie. Fred is still Fred, so it doesn't get to the rim at all. Jalen Green is still going to be Jailen Green in October. Maybe he can be March Jailene Green for a whole year and blow our minds.

I don't know. Jabari's still not going to be a scoring impact. God knows Dylan Brooks isn't going to. to have a scoring impact like I'm not sure I see a roadmap to the offense being elite unless they fully change their dynamic and fully empowered different guys and I feel like by the time they actually do get to a point to where they realize yeah insert him here kick this put this guy in the back burner it might be too late in the season I don't know if they'll have enough ground to make up someone to last year down if they're going to go on another like 10 15 game 20th

game run you know what it is you know either either the first week we're going to see that they're holy shit great and they're at top six seed and where you'm like oh my god they fucking figured it out and all of our predictions are too low or i think they'll be closer to 10.11 because it looks kind of how you'd expect coming off of last year it's one or the other like they're boomer bust to me yeah and well okay my my boom i guess is probably like around eight i don't i don't see i don't see a world where they can get into the into the top six but i i do think that they will be better than than sacramento and i've come around on the damar signing because i do think that it adds another element to to their offense and it gives them

you know we we know that sabonis isn't this like great score and especially when you talk about playing in the western conference it's a lot of close games it gives you another option it uh down the stretch of games and damar has been very very good as a as a clutch player so i do think he's worth some wins there but you have this lineup of like fox and sabonis and damar and it's like who's guarding exactly it's the it's the thing it's like we and so we asked this question three four years ago in Chicago when you had when you had when you had Levine de Rosen and Booch and you're like yo who is guarding anybody now it ended up that all you needed was Lonzo and Caruso and you ended of having like an amazing defense that's probably like you don't have a Caruso level defender

on this team so I follow I now introduce you to Keegan Murray yeah I follow a lot of lot of Sacramento Kings fans now because he's not cruiser. A couple weeks ago, I tweeted like a preliminary version of my standings and I had a liquor's above the Kings and King's Twitter found it and ripped me a new one. So I followed a couple of them and I've seen a lot of their thought processes from that. They really believe they're going to be a great defense because Keegan Murray and Keon Ellis. I guess they think that Keegan Murray is Herb Jones and Keon Ellis is fucking Derek White. I am not of that opinion. I'm with them on the offense. I think it could be really good for the regular season,

I think there's no way in hell they have a top 15 defense. I will be baffled if they have anything close to top 10 defense needed to be a good team. And I don't see it. And I think that, yeah, that I can't, I just, I can't do it. I can't do it with them. Genuinely, it does feel like a little bit that they're a better version of the Bulls back in 2021, like you're alluding to Donovan. So because Deeron Fox is there.

But at the same time, too, there's only so much that De Aaron Fox can. and do as much as I believe, like, every ounce of star in him, I don't think that he'll be able to succumb the, uh, just natural deficiencies of this team, whether it be the three-point shooting and Sabonis being at the helm in the face of your defense, like, yeah, if you want to believe in Keegan Murray and also Keanu Ellis, like, you can't, you can't compare them to Kings fans. You can't be like, oh, yeah, this is our Derek White, the team,

or Herb Jones with the team and all that when, you know, like, a big part of having a great defense is making sure that your center is straight look at all the top 10 top 10 defenses in the entire NBA there are no real outliers in terms of like what you see at the front and if there are it's probably like a nicolyokic that team but even then the coliokic is not no slouch so it's like i think they could have a good defense it's possible to build a good defense with a bonus in fox if you're three and your four are both like dynamite defenders and you have a ton of long flexible defensive versatility out there demar is not that shout out damar i think there's a world where he gives on something very

useful and good offensively and makes him a net positive, better team than last year. I don't believe that to be the case defensively. I think he, for everything here, some Barnes, the terrible last year, I don't believe DeMarter Rosen to be any better defensively. And that's a knock. That's just a knock for me. I look at all these other teams and I believe in the jump that's happening for Houston. It's clunky, but I would rather have the clunkiness of New Orleans because I think that overall

they have more talent. And so I would take them. And then obviously Phoenix looks better. And so I would take Phoenix over them. Yeah, we all have New Orleans here. I'm just banking. Okay, so one, I learned from last year. They were already clunky as hell last year.

And they found a way to be really good and make it work defensively. So I'm kind of just like, I guess they'll probably make it work again to some degree. But I'm also banking on the fact that they're probably going to make some kind of trade by the trade deadline. I'm really hoping they do. But let's say they don't. I still think as stupid as a roster is, as assume they start down. Charles Heiss or eventually Misi, Zionette Murray at the one, and then probably one of their forwards at the two, whether it be Herb Jones, Trey Murphy, or C.J. McCollum, and then branding

room, slot in the three. That's, that's a nine-seat-ass team to me. I'm expecting this team to, like, fully implode this season. This team is great for like one thing and one thing only. Like, if, yo, Zahn is out this season, then, or if Zon just like gets hurt for for 20, 30 games or whatever, which is safe to kind of assume. It's funny because he has in the same spot as me. I said they're going to be decent. He said they're going to fucking implode. Yeah, exactly.

I agree with you in terms of like, yeah, they're going to be all right. But I think they're going to implode and they're going to be that type of all right, meaning like, yeah, Brandon Irons going to be gone. Some disastrous is going to happen with Dejante or probably even seizure because he feels like a problem in the starting lineup. I just imploding for them is a good way, is good. because then they're just going to need something to blow up in her face to finally see

what pathway they need to take. Listen, on Yika Kongwu for Trey Murphy, who says no? Hmm, not me. I'm kidding. People keep wanting to trade Trey Murphy now because he's the Ottoman out. If they trade Trey Murphy, they are asininely stupid. I will be furious for Pelicans fans

if their answer becomes Trey-Murphy. I don't think it will be. Honestly, man. there are rumors now they could be fake okay it could be fake could be fake could be fake and it was leading towards my side to no no not sentel just like you know uncredible reporters putting things out there in there remember like for a hot second like herb jones was like getting fished out there to the alana hawks yeah that was big is on in the market as well the Atlanta hawks leaked that for sure and i don't know i don't know i don't put it too much past by the pelicans in that manner but

Man, they trade Herb or Tray Murphy, David Griffin, say goodbye. The Pelican fans are going to tear you a new one. But let's talk about before we move on to the top six. We'll talk about Phoenix in the top six because obviously me and Mo have them there because we have some sense. The Lakers. The Lakers. You're very rude to me. You're very rude for that.

You're very rude. I'm assuming you had the Lakers and the Sun swap from we do, which is fair. I do. Tell us. Okay. The Lakers, I don't know how to feel because I've been relatively optimistic about J.J. Reddick and what he brings to the team and how that alone could make them better than they were with Darbinham last year just by having a smarter offensive mind in the room and enough continuity

that like, you know, they're the 70 last year. So even with the West getting better, I think they get marginally enough better. They stay about seven in the West. The only thing that I had a little bit of pause with is I really debated putting Sacramento above them just because I think by the end of the season, JJ Reddick is going to have a great offense. I said they'll finish top 10 in offense. I still believe that. But he is a rookie head coach and a new staff.

I can see them starting slow. So I struggle to, even with my fandom and my optimism, getting them to the top six. That's okay. There's two things and two reasons why. And who the fuck is playing defense? I forgot to mention that.

Sorry. Again, listen, you have AD down there. and so it's not much an angel figure it out god damn that is that that's going that's going to be the entire solution there's two things though that i have so one i i think that the new coach i think that having jay there and having somebody that's clearly just competent is worth at least a game or two right there's not there's not going to be games where it's going to be overtly going into the game at whenever you see the graphic of the starting five and you're like damn it darvin lost this game for us already like you're just not you're not going to have that right

you're just not going to have that i think that's one two kevin errant had his healthiest season in like five years last year played 75 games i don't think that at 30 something he's all he's going to have a second consecutive 75 game season it's very it's very very hard you're going to make me say it you're going to make me say i understand lebron if we're playing Being the health game, you cannot tell me you're more worried about Phoenix than you are about LeBron and Anthony Davis. I can't do. Similar to what you said. It was the first time in like, since 2020 probably since we've seen AD and LeBron healthy together.

It is the first time they had to follow up. AD has shown me over the last two years that he is no longer brittle. And if he comes out this season and gets hurt, I will, I will be, I will be furious because now I'm on your side and now. you're getting hurt and this is the one and this is the one and this is the one I hate reactionary bullshit man ankle turns are so lucky nothing changed about AD just nobody fell in his knee last year that's the only difference nothing changed at all the fact that he's brittle and then he gets lucky for one year no he's not if he gets unlucky again oh he's brittle again like nothing changed see I understand that you're upset and this is like a two-year thing that you've been

trying to, that you've been trying to, like, you know, be mad about. I'm saying that for, for multiple years, Anthony Davis was hurt. It just, it seemed all the time. And for the last two years, he hasn't been that. So whether, whether, whether, whether it's his fault or not, he was getting hurt all the time. The last two years he showed me, he's been, he's been pretty healthy. So I feel very comfortable at this point saying, like, yeah, AD is probably in a,

in a space where I can expect him to play a certain amount of games. LeBron for the last what five six years yeah he's going to have his 20 game starts I think that they're going to be okay Kevin Durant and Bradley Bill you have to bake it and Bradley Bill missing 30 games instantly I think that I I think that Kevin Durant is in the same space where he's probably going to play anywhere from like 55 to 62 games and now like yes I believe in in bud the three-point stuff is cool in the in the in the preseason I'm just going to bet on lebron and anthie davis over book k d and beale over a whole season and as bad as the lakers were they were like a game or two behind phoenix last year yeah and i think that again

just being competent in this league goes a long way and the lakers are right there to where they're going to be competent so yes i have them at six okay i just i i think they'll be very confident offensively defensively can you name me the three best perimeter defenders try a d lebron it's a it's a perimeter defenders who can fight over screens and check mobile wings and guards i got ad ad can do that he can do that he does that but kentucky legend right like that's that's their defense they're going to need jared vanderbilt play big part in the team and i i i do trust that j jay jay Reddit can make him work offensively better than Darbinaham could because Darbinaham barely fucking tried. So Jared Vanderbilt's hurt right now, by the way, TBD on one, he's going to be

healthy. Let's assume he comes back and is healthy eventually. That could help. Outside of that, you're going to need Max Christie to defend up and check wings. He is very raw still. He can shoot. He's getting better. I don't know if I want to throw him to the wolves in my primary defender. Reeves, they're been talking about giving him more and more offensive creation load. That isn't Exciting me for his defensive prospects. I don't think he's going to get better defensively. Are they going back to the Cam Reddish? Well, I don't know.

Does Dalton Connect going to be checking wings as a rookie? I don't know. Like, very few paths I see to building a competent perimeter defense and getting to like a top 12 level defense. LeBron James Jr., it is now your time. You are now ball stopper number one. This is your job. You want to make the team.

You want to stay away from the, from the, what's the name? South Bay. You want to stay away from South Bay Lakers? I need you to slap the floor, pull them shorts up, but let's guard. Let's defend. All right. So, no, I do think the Lakers will make a trade at some point. They'll make a trade for sure.

So maybe it'll get better. But right now, this looks like the eighth best offense and like the 18th best defense, which is not necessarily a top six formula. That's fine. Unless it can be like the third best offense. Then we can cook, but that's hard to get to. Yeah. I don't know if they have a lot of faith in the Lakers.

I have a lot of faith in the Lakers. And I put them at six because I was trying to be realistic. But when I was thinking about, like, their ceiling, I was like, can they be, can they be like the fourth best team in this conference? Oh, my God. Oh, man. You are on it. We'll talk about this a little more in the top six. I think I'm a first to reveal this section of the chart.

Here we go. And number one, I have the Oklahoma City Thunder. And number two, I have the Dallas Mavericks. At number three, I have the Denver Nuggets. And number four, I have the Minnesota Timberwolves. And number five, the Phoenix Suns. And number six, the Memphis Grizzlies. You are a fake Edie fan.

You've been screaming all summer long that the Memphis Grizzlies are going to be great. Listen, no. That Zach Edie is here, that John Moranth and we forgot how good he was. And you put him at six on the line? Okay, okay, listen, okay. I thought we were here. Okay, here's the thing. I do believe the Memphis Grizzlies are going to be extremely good.

The problem is, I think all six of this teams are extremely good. And this summer, I was able to say, give Memphis the third seat because I wasn't put to the task of actually comparing and actually putting my name to a list. Once I actually got to the nitty fucking gritty, I was like, oh my God, I love all these teams.

And I had them, I had them at four. Pick a team, pick a stand. I did. I did. I had them at four for most of the time. I moved them down in the last couple of days because, one, I mentioned my biggest tiebreaker is how equipped are you to withstand injury? and I believe they are very poorly equipped with stand injury

because they are already fucking injured after two young promising wings are already going to miss the start of the season. Vince Williams hurt. J.C. Jackson, hurt. John Morant, first preseason game landed a little weird and had to come out of the game for a second.

And I just think back to when they were the two seed and were really good with Jock Hurt, they had Tice Jones, who is pretty fucking overrated but a competent point guard that for that team gave them enough offensive juice to keep the offense flowing and make it so they can withstand those injuries

I don't believe they haven't been on this roster right now that can survive offensively with John Moran out I'm not a fan of him to step into that role and keep them afloat so they're already light on wings they have one big man in Zakiati outside of that yuck I guess Jaron Jackson back to center oh yeah John Moran I don't know if you guys realize this even outside of the suspensions and crazy injury last year

John Moran has never played 70 games in his career not once because he jumps real high and falls down real hard a lot and he misses games here or there every single season. I just, if I'm parsing between six extremely talented teams,

I think Memphis will catch the injury bug more than the others. And that's the only reason I alluded to this. I alluded to this earlier in the stream. I talked of, I kind of leaked my season's predictions just a little bit

in terms of the Memphis Grizzies and their depth. It's not 2021 or 22, 2022 anymore, where they had the Dylan Brooks's, like you said, the Ties Jones or the World. world and all that like they're there they're brittle their front line is thin it's looking real

bleaking like you say we already saw two of them go down um marcus smart i love his game doesn't bane i love his game but we saw a desmond bane led team that is the reason why they got the number nine overall thing all right we see marcus smart there's a reason why the boss and was traded him away and immediately won the NBA champion. So I see this team and I initially during the offseason, I was like, yeah, like this team's already to be like number two, number three, let everyone know who they are or mind the entire league, why, you know, this new revitalized version of Memphis Grizzies are here to be one of the

more dominant teams than the 2020s, but I realized that I was a little bit ahead, too ahead of myself. And I dove deep into the roster and realized that there's genuine holes and they're just not equipped to even withstand like a playoff series bare minimum. And this is, I don't know if I'm just talking about that. I'm just talking about season teams at this point. I don't think they have holes. It's just like, listen, all these teams are great.

They can't withstand injury. And like, look at Phoenix. I've been soft launching this all week. I think they're a top five team. I think five is actually like low for them. I think they could get to three or four if everything breaks right. And somebody else has injured like always happens. Mike Boodenholzer has installed an offense that fixes their biggest problems

from last year. On top of the offensive philosophy being bad last year, they had no depth. After the Bradley Biel trade, their bench was cobbled together with minimum signings. It was terrible. We had Nazir Little, Keda beats Diop, Uta Wada Navi,

all these guys that are not on the team anymore for clear reasons. And now they have two new competent point guards, some new competent bigs, some good defenders on the wing. A lot of pieces at every position that's going to give them a lot of flexibility when everybody's healthy.

And the biggest thing is, Bradley Bill can miss a game, and it won't fucking matter. You just start Grayson Allen. You just give Royce O'Neill more minutes. You give Monty Morris more minutes. They will not miss a step. Ditto for Devin Booker,

obviously, he's extremely good. So it's a little different. But, you know, if they have those two guys, Kevin Durac can set out, they can still be a lot of good teams. Like, with three stars and good depth and competent bigs, they are the team that I think of this five

are probably the most able, besides OKC, actually, to withstand injury. They're probably second on this list in terms of depth that can have injuries and still win games. I sit down. I'm a simple man

and I don't like to do too much brain gymnastics. If I don't need to, I see Mike Budenhouser, and I notice that this man likes to take a lot of threes. He likes to lead his team in that category.

Look at the Hawks. Look at the Milwaukee Bucks. Milwaukee Bucks prior to the season they signed him or one of the worst three-point shooting teams. And they had, Giannis at the helm of their team, switched that,

offense that pushed some top 10, I believe, and three point attempts. There's no reason why we kind of assume that offense led by KD, Devinbucker, and Bradley Buehl, all above average three-point shooters. You can have questions about Bradley Biel if you want. Don't care. But those guys alongside Grayson Allen, Tyson, Tice Jones, who's also very capable Ryan Dunn, who we talked about on TD 3 Tuesdays, 6 p.m. Eastern time. Tap in. We talked about Ryan Dunn and his just insane transformation looking like new age OG Ananovi with the way he's been pulling threes is crazy and that depth they got young juice now Ryan down oh sougado they they have depth down low that's young and has energy and gives them a ceiling if those guys hit they have a

floor and a ceiling to me that it's just going to be a better more healthy version than what they were last year when they were already to succeed with a pretty terrible year schematically health-wise everything I don't see how they're not better this year. And if they can hold up their defense through like this offensive change, I think they're what, 12th last year in defense or I don't know. Something of that sort of, yeah. They weren't, they were

genuinely surprising not in the floor and the main reason why they were disappointing was because of their offense. I can't assume that their defense is going to get tremendously worse and I have to assume that their offense just took another leap with having ties in there and also Mike Boonehoser forcing these guys to shut up threes. All right, Donovan, go ahead.

No, I just thought I just think that you're a traitor. And I just, you know, I'm going to be down there in Beal Street. I better not see you there. You know what I'm saying? Me and me in Memphis, me, listen, I think Memphis is going to be really, really good this year. And I think I at least, at least better than, better than six. I'll stand on it.

I'll say that. I think that they're going to be good in like, and I know. It's very, very hard. I understand it's hard because, because after you get past OKC, there's a. very real possibility that 2 through 6 is going to be decided by two games literally by any order I don't care yeah I understand I understand that but I look at I look at Memphis and I look at like you guys are talking about what they're missing on the front line what they do have on the line is a dog they got job they have they have they have 12 and job

Morant, when healthy, is one of the best, not only guards in the league, but he's one of the best players in the league. And I think that having him there is going to be able to push them forward and push them to a really good level. Like, obviously, like, Jerry Jackson, Jr., he's already, you know, dealing with some stuff. But this is the team that has shown the ability to go on runs before. And again, whether that happens. Question to you, Mr. Smoot.

What's up? John Morant, or might I say, Timetrius. is a dog you are correct but what happens when that dog hurts his paw or has to take a trip to the veterinarian he's not going to be there who is going to step up to the plates who's going to help carry them alive that's the issue listen i guess i guess i guess i guess i'm saying this i'm i'm expecting a fairly healthy season from job and i know what basis on my basis just Listen, just expect. Just expect it.

That's just it. You know? That's all like I can say. You said you think the Memphis Grizzlies are a hell of a lot better than the six seed? I can't, I fucking agree. I look at this roster and my brain just goes three seed. But I look at a lot of teams.

There's like six three seeds in this conference. Listen. Listen, once Adam Silver goes ahead and fixes these stupid ass conferences and moves Memphis to the Eastern Conference, then we're going to see them routine. Oh, 100% three first seat for show.

I'm so glad you said that. I'm so glad you said that because the number one thing that came into my mind while doing these rankings was like some of these Eastern Conference teams need to make trades. We need to get these players into it because I was thinking about the standings and I was thinking about the All-Star ballot. And I was like, when you get to Deera Fox

and you're just talking about guards in the West, you get like six deep before you even get to him. And it's like, that's crazy. It's wild. So, yeah. Okay, next six. Who do you guys got? All right.

I'll go. So I have OKC at one, Minnesota at two, Denver at three, Memphis at four, Dallas at five, Lakers at six. Okay. I find Dallas at five to be flabbergasting. I don't. I don't. You go. You go.

Before Donald, Glasgow, you tell us your. No, this has bothered me all summer. No, I had the exact same thing. six as you probably for the first time or second time in TD3 history. OKC1, Dallas, two, Denver three, Memphis or Minnesota, my bad, four, five, Phoenix and the Memphis Grizzlies at number six. I came to a complete another realization about Phoenix and I fell in love with their potential to put them at five.

Donovan, why do you hate the Dallas Mavericks and why are you anti-Luca Donchitz, anti-carrier ring, and anti-Texas for that matter? Horns down Why do you hate Bucking? We don't do that around here We'll do that around here We'll do that around here I'm just kidding

I mean I mean Let's relax Let's relax Why do you hate HB Why do you hate HB? Listen First of all I had a reason

And this is this big for you They just Yeah they just added tap to pay Bro that's crazy I've been asked for years They just So HB is like It's a Texas grocery store

For years They didn't have tap to pay they just added it yeah big upgrade is crazy so anyways i don't yeah it's why i relax i i i understand that dallas made it to to the finals and i'm not saying that this is why you guys believe in them but i know that a lot of other people are like oh they made it to the finals they're going to be great again i if they weren't playing the clippers in the first round i would have had them out in the first round last year like this this is this is a this is a team that now you have a trio of Luca, Kyrie, and Clay. Clay can't guard anybody and it's going to be

inconsistent. Kyrie can guard people sometimes and also with very, very up and down in the playoffs. And then you have Luca who can't guard anybody. And so when we go on on like a night to night basis, I think that they are going to have some issues defensively. And the one answer that everybody has had is like all right well we'll just put naji marshall in the game and i know that nazi marshals is really really good i don't think that he's going to be the difference between them being like one of the elite defenses in in the league and like not but like i i look at i look at i look at at the other teams and like i do i genuinely think minnesota is is better i genuinely think that the minnesota is going to be like fantastic i'm not disrespected

We all have, we all have Denver at three. I think Memphis and Jha and they come back and they show everybody, yeah, we're not, you know, really messing around this year. And then you get to Dallas and it's fine that that way. Okay. So boil it down to the final playoff run is hilarious because as soon as they made those traits last year, they played it on the top two team in the West Pace for the entirety of the season after that. I can only look at right now the last 15 games of the season, but if I extended it, you get the same results. 12 and 3 in the last 15 games. That's number one defense by a fucking mile

You think Najee Marshall isn't the difference between a bad defense in the lead But you think Derek Jones Jr. is I'm fucking sorry I love Derek Jones Jr. What he brought to that team was great Awesome in defending, fighting over screens,

great job in his role But if the Dallas Mavericks Had an elite defense built at the back of Derek Jones Somebody should pay his ass $30 million a year And nobody did because that's not who he is So we act like they are just crazy different team You'd lose a slightly above average

defensive forward and you bring in another one, you still have the same bigs, you still have the same guards. They're going to run back essentially the same formula. You're going to say, oh, but they got to play Clay now.

Well, he replaced Tim Hardaway Jr. He didn't replace some goon. They got better. Their defense is going to be just as good. And Clay has already had over eights, over nine, over 10s, he's already had that.

And every single year, we go with the Dallas Mavericks. What does Tim Hardaway Jr. Had? A beer. Like, that's it. But every, year with the Mavericks. There's like a 20 to 25 game stretch where you look on the

sideline and you're like, yo, is Jason Kidd stupid? Like, what is he doing? Mass fans hate him for at least a third of the season. Am I 100% confident that Jason Kidd is going to look at last season and say, okay, X, Y, and Z worked. Let's do X, Y, and Z again. No, I think we're going to go through another stretch where you look at the math and you're like, dang, like, we were talking about Jason Kidd potentially being fired last year and then they make the run. I'm with you. I, you keep saying they made the run. It wasn't just like happenstance that there's a clear delineating factor.

They got PJ Washington and they got Daniel Gafford. That made the difference. PJ Washington shot like prime Steph Curry for six games and they beat the playoffs. They were 12 and three in the last 15 games. And they would have went out in the second freaking round if PJ Washington didn't turn up and somebody wasn't user controlling him and getting green beans every single time.

Stop talking about the playoffs. They were great in the regular season. Yeah, so Donovan, I can understand where you're going. And it wouldn't have amounts to anything. We're not talking about the playoffs. Who cares? We're talking about regular season. I'm telling you right now, I see them for who they truly are.

They are a solid team in the Western Conference. They are not the second best team in the West. I think that Minnesota, and let's talk about Minnesota, right? I think that Minnesota right now. Oh, shut up. I don't let me try. You add, you add Dante, a shooter, right? You had Julius Randall who, and you can already see it coming together.

The chemistry between and Julius Randall, that's going to take some time. But Julius and Dante, their two-man game is already clicking. It's already going. You add Mr. Shifty off the bench, they are going to be fantastic. And I, and I think, and we would talk about this later. Anthony Edwards is coming back this year. And Andy Edwards is, he's not playing fair. He's not playing fair.

All right. He has the sliders. He has the sliders up this year. Andy Edwards is making a jump. And I think that that's going to propel them to be the second best team in the conference. I love the Minnesota Timberools as much as anyone. and I gave them their props on TD3 Tuesdays, tap in 6 p.m. Eastern time, 3 p.m. Pacific time.

Tap the hell in. But I hear your argument for the Dallas Mavericks, but I think you're taking their issues from last season in the postseason and the NBA finals specifically because no one was talking about these issues for real until they saw the Boston Celtics. The Boston Celtics, one of the best scenes that you've seen in a long time.

You saw those issues, and you transported it up until, October, and we're talking about an 82 game season. They're not facing teams like the Boston Celtics. They're not facing O'KC every other night. They're going to be facing teams like Sacramento. The Houston Rockets, the San Antonio

Spurs. They're going to be facing the Memphis Grids. A Wemby got something for them. I'll tell you that right now. Wembe got something for them. A lot of those issues that you envision happening, a lot of those issues you've vision happening are not going to be exploited as you say. Kyrie Irving doesn't look small.

unless you put him against Jalen Browns, Jason Tatum's, and you have Drew Holiday 6'4, self, posting him every other night. Then he looks small, yes. But in general, that has been an improvement, especially for him and his Luca, that's been an improvement with this new Luca and Kyrie duo. So I see what you mean, but I think your argument is more so based in the playoffs

instead of the regular season. I'll tell you this. Okay, quick question. Easy way to state it. What's up? Do you think the roster is worse this year and it was last year? Yes or no? maybe

maybe worse I'm not sure I'm not sure I'm not sure I'm not sure I'm not sure I'm not even saying it's better I'm not even saying it's exactly the same

so the second part of the question is do you think post trade deadline Mavs last year where they were a top two defense in the league and still doing Luca and you can't read things offensively do you think that was a fluke yeah

what the fuck I don't I don't believe I don't believe on what basis vibes like for what I don't yes on but I don't believe in them I don't believe in them

I don't believe I believe in them. I listen, I will put Dallas, the highest I can give Dallas. And this, one of the reasons why it was hard for me to put them at five is because I do think that Luca is a top three player in the world. And it is very hard for me to look at a team that is competent around him and say, you aren't going to have home court advantage in the, in the, in the, in the first round of the playoffs.

I understand that. But OKC, also top five player, Denver, Yokic, best player in the world. that I think that the Grizzlies are really, really good. I really believe that. And I believe in Minnesota. And so, but I think that Dallas might just be the odd team out. And it's not, it's not a linear thing. Now, I will say this, though, and I will stand on this 100% for the whole year. Because you said at the, at the beginning of all this, you asked me, why do I hate Dallas? I'm telling you right now every single day

that I watch the Dallas Mavericks I will be rooting for them to lose what I will I am hating on the Mavericks this year that is one of my agendas I do not want to see them thrive I do not but I think that they are still solid

I think that if they played I think that if they played Memphis in the first round they might be able to beat them but I do not think that they are as good as O KC Minnesota or Denver. I don't understand the Minnesota part genuinely at all when Minnesota hasn't like done anything to address those issues that in fact they maybe got a little bit worse

in terms of matchup problems if you're talking about like postseason stuff. But no in general, I like I like the Minnesota. No, they're good. They're good though. No, Minnesota is going to be like great this year. I think I I'm kind of like as all in on this trade for them as I can be. be and I and I see I see the vision long term and even short term for them because you're also getting a version of Julius Randall like you're getting contract year Julius Randall

so that that's going to give you the last time we saw contract year Julius Randall all NBA all NBA yeah yeah but I agree but no I just I just believe in the other four teams more than more yeah like if I if I was being real like aside from like you know the hate and all that I do think that the other four teams are just going to be better. Yeah, two through six and be in your order. So if the Mavs are four or five, I won't be shocked,

but I think it'll be because of injury probably. I just, that formula is you have two good shot blocking bigs down low. Well, Gafferton necessarily is shot blocking big. No, we can say that. You got a great defender, but he's a shot blocker. You got two of them down low.

Lively's only getting better. He's only getting better with the ball in his hands. Defensively, he's already very good. There's actually a huge move to call him overrated and hate on him on Twitter, which is hilarious to me. It's because of the ESPN. I've seen that.

Yeah. Yeah. So you have those two. PJ Washington proved to be incredibly valuable defensively. Still there. Last year, they were good on the perimeter because Luca has size. Derek Jones Jr. could guard the main ball handler and Kyrie held his own.

Luca still has size. Kyrie will still be able to hold his own, Najee Marshall, Clay Thompson, just as good as Derek Jones and Tim Hardaway, Jr. Quing rhymes is there to throw into that mix of Clay's having an off night. Also a pretty good defender. You're aware of him, Jonathan. That's your guy. so it's like don't act like these bodies just fell off exactly

i mean i mean q q did have some struggles in detroit but i mean everybody he did he was yeah yeah he was terrible there he'll be a lot better catching luca dantschis standing in the corner luca dants to catch two threes he'll be a lot better yeah so i'm i'm expecting but but yeah so minnesota to denver max prosper might finally be able to play like they i i don't see reason to have if you're if it's just if your point and i was just like rooted off of just hate, which it seems like it is Donovan. And there's nothing that we can do at all. Yeah, exactly. We're just debating a wall at this point in time.

Well, I told you, they can go as high as four for me. Four! That's one. You act like that. You said they could be number two. What do you mean? Yeah, you got to fuck off. That's as high as four. You have five right now. You're playing with me. What do you think? That's higher than what I have them. Oh, my God. I think Denver will be exactly the same as we're last year. I don't think the KCP edition will make a huge difference in the regular season acumen.

Yologich, Jamal Murray, Aaron Gordon, and MPJ are going to do the same thing they do every year. They will be around this range in the mix from 2-2-4. And yeah, we all like Minnesota. Yeah. I love Minnesota.

Their three-point variance is going to see a seismic jump in my mind and also that defense isn't going anywhere. They're going to bare minimum remain top three. So that alongside offense being more breathable, it's going to go a long way, very long way. Yeah. The only difference to me is I think,

again back to the withstanding injury thing I don't think cat is like a huge amount better than Julius Randall when he's playing the four when he's playing the four but he did give them a nice ability to have Rudy Goberra get hurt and just like Cat to the five and you're pretty much fine

now if Rudy Goberra gets hurt Knowsbred and Julius Randall phone court No defensively I don't know if that's going to be any good so just a little bit less of a floor for injury now but only marginally yeah I don't know I mean Even Cat at the 5 wasn't that good defensively as well, but I can see your logic.

It's better. It's better. I know as Reed versus cat defense. Garbage versus trash. Yeah, so just slightly, just moving down slightly. They could be three or three or maybe even two. I don't think it's crazy. Why do you all have?

Okay, well, we all have OKC bare mineral number one and we haven't touched on them like once at all. Oh, what's to be said? Oh. Time to glaze. Isaiah Hardinstein is going to miss the first five weeks of the season. He broke his hand yesterday. Outs. So I thought about him, like, should I hate chess anything?

No, I shouldn't. They didn't have them last year. They added him for nothing. They are just going to start Chet and then have Jay Williams as the backup center and be perfectly fine through her last year. So I don't, I was sitting on a take. Like, I think they'll win 65 games and have like a legendary season. That's less likely now. Maybe it'll be like 61.

But I think they'll be fine. Yeah. I can agree. They're winning 70 games. I was waiting. for that. When they get our height, when they get iHeart back though, just know, okay, C is going to be a special, special team. If you haven't seen us talk about it, go watch the last few preview episodes. We won't regregisterate too much because this is the long-ass episode. We've got

to move on. But we fully expect them to be the best team in the West by far and get to the final. I got all day. What you mean this is a long-edge episode? You told me you're waiting 52 weeks. We're like a six five for this moment. We're like an hour and a half in. Haven't done the East yet. Still have ticked on awards. This is going to be a four-hour episode. So I hope you guys are ready because there's a lot to talk about. With that being said, let's move on to the Eastern Conference after all this time. I think there would be a little bit less debate than there was for the West. But also, I don't know because both of your guys' teams are out there, so maybe we'll get spicy. All right. Starting off at the bottom five in the East, I'm going first

with the shitters. I had Toronto at 11, Chicago at 12, Detroit at 13, Brooklyn at 14, and Washington at 15. I don't think there's much debate here. This is pretty clearly the hierarchy to me. Maybe you can swap the bottom two teams if you think Brooklyn will be legendary ass, but hard to out-ask the Washington Wizards. I think the most important thing in your sector right now in this section is that Detroit is no longer going to be the worst team in the NBA. They are going to see some type of improvement with Tobias Harris of the world. J.D. and I.B. Please don't say that.

Please do not say that. They lose 33 games in a row this year. Bickerstaff, please prove them wrong. Okay, interesting You guys have essentially the same thing But Donovan swapped Washington and Brooklyn Yeah, I think Brooklyn's going to be so bad They're going to be awful

It's going to be unwatchable They'll be fine at first though Ben Simmons, when he's healthy for those six games Before he gets hurt He'll give him a little playmaking Nick Lackson will be there At least like Brooklyn has adults in the building Who've like done things like Dennis Schroeder

Dorian Fitzger Cam Johnson You know like they have guys who actually play good basketball Nick Clackett. They have a team. They're just not going to win. That's all. You don't think NBA champions Kyle Kuzma and Jordan Poole in their second year together. Calcus is too focused on. You don't think their chemistry works? No. Kyle Kuzan has moved on to bigger and better things right now, bro. Like he has a very loving relationship. He opened up a coffee shop in D.C. Jordan Poole, you know, he's figuring himself out still. But they got you on starting over there.

Well, Al Kuala, Bolly. I love his game. But he's not going to make leaps necessarily. So, I think they're going to be at 14. Detroit is Detroit. We all think they'll be better. Chicago is obviously a net for many reasons we talked about. Let's talk about the Raptors real quick before we move on. Do you think there's, why are they still in the bottom five and not pushing to play in race? I have, they have no guys.

I have nothing else to say about the Raptors. They're the most boring team in the east of me. Nice. Astute. Yeah. They have no guys. Diamond, do you have any thoughts? All of this kind of just depends on whether or not.

Like, I think if you think that. Toronto is in the top 10, you think that what RJ did last year was 100% stamped who he's going to be. I think that if you think, if you think quickly is taking a leap, if you think that RJ is taking a leap and then with Scotty, yes, they can be in the top 10. If one of those two guys are not the best versions of themselves, they would be outside the play in. And that's, that's kind of what it is. I've seen RJ have stretches. And he played very, very well. I've seen RJ have stretches where he looked really good shooting the ball. I'm not 100% sure that that is real.

So I'm taking them off the board when it comes to the play in. I think you do it for a full season, then I could see it. If Grady Dick can take some type of a leap, then okay, maybe they can be tiny. Yeah, I think out of all of them, I think Emmanuel quickly is the one who's like scheduled to take the leap. He did, like he played, he played well, right? It was okay, but I think that him having a full offseason and being able to train to be able to, you know, handle the responsibilities of a league guard, his efficiency should go up this year. And so I think you get that jump from him.

But outside of that, we might see some regression from RJ from everybody else. So, yeah, they're just not really interesting that way. And I'm getting them out of the playing. They could get into the 10 range just because, spoiler, the next team above them, the next teams. have like the hawks and the hornets, wouldn't be shocking if one of those teams disappointed and fell down. So the Raptors can definitely be in the mix for playing race. And if they are, so I want two things. I think RJ's play last year was pretty real. I think most of you because it wasn't just two point shooting. He was getting to the rim extremely well, which I think was a

product of their system being just very different responsibility-wise than what he was doing with the Knicks. So I kind of do expecting to be really good. Quickly, I don't know if I necessarily have the highest ceiling on him compared to some people, but I think the big difference to they're really good is going to be Scottie Barnes. He's honestly one of the more underrated players in the league. You know there's charts on Twitter that says production, a skill, talent,

and recognition. Recognition is really low. That's Scottie Barnes. He's just incredible, but nobody cares because he plays for the Raptors, and they were terrible last year. I can see what he just keeps getting better as he has every single year of his career,

and maybe he makes us equal a little bit about the Raptors. But I can say those same things about the teams above them. So I'm just taking the bet on the supporting cast being better for those other East teams I mentioned. But the Raptors are going to be in that mix. They'll be like a game or two behind those teams, I said. Show me something. Cool.

What's the next year? Oh, and shout out the Bulls for being fucking terrible. So we'll just, I don't even want to talk about them. Oh, shout out to Lonzo Ball. That's all that matters. Donovan, who were your teams in the East playing race? At seven, I have the Indiana Pacers. At eight, I have the Miami Heat.

At nine, I have the Charlotte Hornets. And at 10, I have the Atlanta Hawks. Okay, pretty similar, pretty similar to mine. Pacers being in the plane is interesting. I don't have them there. I have them a little bit higher. Why do you think they're going to fall a little bit? Well, I think that like, so they ended up making six,

but the team that they, that I think is going to swap and get in, I think Philly's going to be in the top six. I think, I think, very fair. Yeah. So I think a majority of the top six from the East last year stays. Indiana, they have the ones that I just don't have the most belief in. And I have, you know, I just trust. the other team's born, so they'll probably be out of it.

Somebody has to be the odd man out. It's probably going to be in the Indiana. Yeah, I don't really feel like going to put any of these teams there, but I feel good about Indiana being a top six team just because they get a full year with Siakum playing around him and Tyree's Halliburton, hopefully being healthy and getting back to what we saw early in the season. Cross my fingers there.

I don't think it's a guarantee we see that level of shot making again, but I hope if we do see anything close to that, then, you know, they're going to be obviously better than a year in which he got injured. Yeah, I think every single year, some team is bound to disappoint through unforeseen events, whether it be injuries, drama, or just stuff simply just not working out. So if you want to put Indiana there, cool, but for similar reasons like Isaac, I think having a full calendar year basketball with having Seacom fully ingratiated, Tyre's Halliburton,

healthy, they still have the depth. You don't know what Benedict Mathrim is going to continue to give you. What's wrong? What happened? I see the writing on the wall. I see where you guys are going with this. And I think that there's hate coming from both of you for the next two. No, no, no hate.

And number seven, at number seven, I have the Orlando Magic. And number eight, I have the Atlanta Hawk. No. Number nine. No. And number nine, I have the Miami Heats. And at number 10, I have the Charlotte Hornets. You both have traded.

No. Listen, listen, listen. The clear indicator here is that me and I actually feel like there's something severely wrong with the Orlando Magic. Not necessarily wrong, actually. I just, we just think that they're probably going to slightly disappoint. Expectations are a little bit too high. Like you said, like two weeks ago, Donovan came out of your mouth. Growth is not linear.

We cannot expect Atlanta match to continue to climb. They know there's no given reason. We say their biggest issues last year was shooting and playmaking. You're KCP. No one's out here saying that KCP is like the best shooter in the world. He's good. Very, very, very, very, like, solid. But he's not the main issue.

playing making is that and it's deeper than that and they didn't address any of those issues i think they're fucking fine i think they're the same as they were last year i just think indiana's gonna have a really good regular season i think we're gonna see um andrew nimhart be empowered and have a bigger role he did last year because early in the season last year they were really trying to get the benedick math and thing to happen didn't quite work out i think jaris walker should be in the rotation and give them a good bench piece there i think siakum is going to be better than was last year with the full off season to build around him i think halibur would be better So I think they'll be slightly better

I don't have any slander for the magic I just think they'll be relatively the same as last year And I think if you had a full season of healthy pacers They would have finished higher I expect new version healthy pacers I expected Orlando to be in the plane from you Isaac Not Bo I thought me and Mo on the same page I like Orlando I'm not even like

There's no I don't like I mean I mean you do hate Palo though You are anti-Palo though I'm anti I'm anti I'm anti I'm anti people jump in the gun a little bit with him of like liking the idea of him more than what he currently is

at his development. I do think he'll get there. I just think people need to relax and not expect him to be like carrying teams like he's young Braun. But I guess that is the problem is that they're building as if he is young Braun which like he's saying Braun makes it crazy

but you know like he's young. Insert star player and can really elevate and I think he'll get there but I'm not I need to see some skill improvements first that I'm not going to necessarily say is all because of the spacing. I need to see him,

you really improve the footwork, improve the handle, and get to the room more often, and use his size and not be so mid-range dependent, which I know part of that's his spacing, I've said before. Part of that is just his tendencies

needs to improve on. You need to see the passing continue to get better. You see Franz Wagner's three-point shot. It's just development that I can understand if you assume they'll make a big leap because it's really easy to say that with young players. Like, when you haven't seen them play it

in the whole year, and all you have is three months of thinking what they could transform into, it's real easy to assume everybody will make a leap every year. But I just need to see it first. I don't think the supporting cast has improved enough to facilitate that. I don't think KCP is going to be the difference between the worst spacing in the league

and elite spacing that lets Palo destroy the rim because there's all this space around it. I'm like, I don't think that's going to be the difference there. So unless those two guys make a jump, like I said, they could. I struggle to see why they'll be much better than next year than last year. Whereas with the Paciers, I have a lot of reasons why I can see them getting better in terms of regular season wins. I hate to see it. Ain't to see it. There's nothing against Orlando.

I just see the... No, I would pick the... I might pick the Pacers in a playoff series over the Pacers. I mean, I might pick the Magic in a playoff series over the Pacers. But in terms of regular season wins, again, I think that's going to be like a one or two game difference. I have Indiana at six. So I don't really care if you flip them.

But I feel safe betting on Tyree Celiburton. Okay. I think the interesting thing is Moe having Miami at 7 and at the highest of this group, I feel like we've all written. off the black magic of the Miami heat and now you haven't met at the top of this list why yeah i've probably been infected by a little bit of the black magic i've over the last two weeks i've been over here saying like yeah this is the final year for the Miami heat they're gonna implode

and then something in me just like infected me and i'm just like nah but they still have jimmy butler bam out of bio it always felt like he's on the verge of winning a defensive player of the year award Jaime haka's entering his second year Tyler hero and tarry Rozier never had a chance to get acclimated. And I feel like maybe we wrote those two off a little bit too soon because of the injuries and also like meshing two different, not two different place styles, too similar styles. They haven't had the ability to really ingratiate themselves just yet.

I want to write them off. I think they're going to implode still. But it's going to be different. You keep breaking people the highest and then saying they're going to implode. Yeah. Because I'm like playing the fences here. I'm playing both sides. that way I can come out on top of winning.

Guys. Exactly. Anyways, I think that Miami is just not that good. I think Jaime Hakez is a bit overrated. I like him. Shout out my Mexican king. I think people think he's as like insanely promising young player when he's just a good rotation player

that I don't see making a big leap from where he was as a rookie, at least in year two. I think Nikolio, which is interesting. I don't think he gives him a scoring punch that they desperately need from that spot because they desperately need shooting. I think they brought in Terry Rozier

to beat that scoring punch. I think it worked horribly, him and Tyler Hero cannot coexist because for reasons we talked about on the one question episode, where I brought up the stats that when those two play on the same court at the same time, their defense is abysmal. When one of them on the court, without the other, pretty good. They can do the typical Miami heat things. But last year, they showed zero ability to withstand having two small guards out there in Hero and Rozier. And maybe it gets better with time. Again, you can do that whole thing. I mentioned with the young players where you just convince yourself because you haven't seen.

yet that it could be better. It could be the best case scenario. Yeah. It also just couldn't be. It might not be because maybe they're just too small guards that aren't that good at defense and maybe bam out of bio isn't God and can defend five people. I think what it is, the only way like these, just a backcourt

like this can survive is if you have like a top 10 player or maybe two top 10 players by your side similar to what the Lakers have in AD and LeBron. Yeah, like Austin's Rees and Dealer are not defenders at all. That's not a strong suit. That is one of the last things you talk about when you talk about their game same thing applies to tyro hero and terro's year i just don't know if these guys if i just don't know if bam and jimmy beller have enough juice to supersede offensively and even defensively really defensively what these guys

don't bring to the game so stuff yeah and their bench they don't have back a point guard by the way if they but did know that terry ruggier and tyler hero are their point guards neither of which are really point guards at all by the way I don't know if anybody knows that on their second unit depth chart right now is Alec's Josh Richardson Duncan Robinson Jaime Hawkes and Keloware

Hopefully Keloware is a star Or otherwise that is a uninspired Second Unit with Zero Juice It's a bunch of good role players who can shoot a little bit Defend a little bit Dribble not a lot a bit I just you really need the Rozier and Hero thing to work

Because those are your only sources of offense outside of Jimmy Butler. I love Bamadabio. Not much for creator, obviously. They just don't have the juice. And I look at someone like Atlanta who have one spot above them. They could be worse for sure.

Atlanta has definitely has a lower floor. They think could go terribly there and they could be out of the plane. Wouldn't shock any of us. Or, or, Trey Young does Trey Young Things. Average is 20 points, 10 assists. 31.

30 points, 10 assists, whatever. And then you have three long defensive forwards next to him, one of which being Jalen Johnson who's clearly going to be one of the more improved players this year making maybe a star leap maybe averaging 22 points for game

being a great lob threat defending well Zachary Risha She was the number one pick for a reason Dyson Daniels is a way better defender than Dejante Murray is at this point you can see a world where you have Trey Young and a bunch of switchy defenders

that's just a better formula with more night-to-night reliability keep going, keep going I love it every time you make me want to stop And you keep going every single time. I love it. You mentioned the notes.

I even said anything. This is why we don't talk about the haunts. That's disgusting. Bogdome McDonovitch still, who's going to be another really good six man because it'll be power more. And you keep going on. I'm going for me.

I'm looking at you in the eyes. This isn't me and you conversation. No, I'm right here. I see you. My camera is on no scare right now. Just over there. My face is on your screen right now. You see me.

I'm going to escape. I think the ceiling is higher on the Hawks in a regular season perspective because I think night to night there'll be more consistency. You cannot run. You cannot hide. You're going to show up with ATL pride. I damn near wanted to put these guys at seven, but I wanted to show some humility and not glaze for once. But yeah, like Donovan said, just like you, I agree we saw in terms of the versus Hilly and all out with the Atlanta Hawks. I don't need to.

I didn't say that. Yeah, you did. No. I do agree that. Their ceiling is higher than Miami and Charlotte. I've also seen the Hawks be the Hawks for the last, like, three, four years. So they are at the 10 seat until proven otherwise. Okay.

But Jonathan Murray's not walking through those doors. Like he was the reason they were bad. Actually, that's a wrong way to phrase it. Yeah, yeah. That makes it sound like he's terrible. His inability to fit with Trey Young and both of their inability to complement each other, that was the problem. So we're moving to Jonté Murray removes that problem.

And I think we go back to seeing Trey Young-style basketball that worked really well and got the new conference finals before they moved away with it for Dejante Murray-style basketball. Failed to two years of my glorious train Young's year, bro, career. God damn. Let's talk about Charlotte

because I absolutely love Charlotte and it pains me to put them at 10. I just, I had to hedge a little bit for them still being Charlotte and mostly for the fact that La Mello ball can still get hurt at any moment. But if they're healthy,

I absolutely love the five-man lineup of Lamello, Josh Green, Brandon Miller, redacted, and Mark Williams. Whoa, whoa, whoa. It fits so well.

Is Trey Man not starting? You don't want that? No, he's an awesome six man. He's going to be a bucket off the bench. I love that. Another reason I love them. Like, their team is so much sense. Is it confirmed that Trey Man is coming off the bench, though?

I can't imagine so. I mean, I don't know. They've been starting. Nothing's confirmed. Nothing's confirmed. But I would assume they get to that point because you need that bench. You need that defense. You need that defense next to Lamello.

And I just love it And off the bench up Cody Martin Grant Williams doing veteran things Nick Richards being average Meachich and Trey Man That team makes sense And I think Charles Lee Is a coming from a smart coaching tree

Coming from a Celtics organization It seems like he's in a prioritized defense And get these guys smack in the ground They have the personnel If Mark Williams can say healthy To be a competent defense I think lamella ball is insanely underrated As being a legitimately great offensive engine

Like if they're healthy They're going to be good But it's obviously a big if I can't go higher than 10. Yeah. Every time that we've seen the Hornets make the play in, they've been 10. They've been in the 10 spot. So it's not, again, Atlanta is there for me just because I need them to fully, fully show me.

It's the same thing with Charlotte. I just think that, I do think that, like, Lamello and the leap from Brandon is going to be great. And so that's why I would put them at at 9. It's fair. And so, like, for Mo, I know that he's going to say, Trey Young, is Trey Young, and then you're going to get the lead from Jalen Johnson. And so you might, you know, like that. Like that.

Yeah, you might like that duo a little bit more. But this is a team that just, for years, just can't really play defense. And I kind of trust Charlotte a little bit more on that end. My biggest problem there is I hope they trade redacted, not because he needs to be redacted, that reason too, fuck him. But also his defense is terrible. And I really want to see a strong defender there. next to lamello and brandon miller so if they can find a way to get a four as a better defender

i think that'd be great otherwise it's kind of hard to imagine with redacted lamello and brandy miller can be good defender in your two i can see that but he really has to be like he doesn't really have leeway for being a young guy yeah also tjohn has been shooting the shit out of the ball in the preseason so i hope that continues yeah dude they have depth they have real depth that i did not foresee him coming and when i think at tijon salon i think of like a player who's going to be in the jilly just developing why i put pressure on a 18 year old french dude or 19 year old franchise coming into the league with so many he's going to play he's going to play he's going to play yeah i know initially i thought he was going to be in the g league but after

showing me his consistent shot for him and how he was pulling it with just so much confidence and conviction i'm just like all right yeah like this dude is here if he's good if he can play defense and they can trade redacted that's the him at the four yeah that would be nice that's i see a vision i do not know if he will be able to get to that point this season but in general if that's the game plan next year okay now we're talking seventh seed eighth seed charlotte hornets for show yeah yeah i debated eight through ten so hard because i do think there's a world where charlotte really blows our minds and is the promising young team but i also said this last year and i also looked ridiculous for saying that so hedging my bets it's okay playing

it safe i like it let's roll you all right for the top six i've been ready born ready okay word to land stevenson Mo, who's your one through six? One through six. Number one, Boston Celtics, two, New York Knicks, three Milwaukee bucks, four, Cleveland, five, Indiana and six, the Philadelphia 76ers. Ouch. I would say, the biggest shift in mindset and process for me, nothing's changed.

Like, when it comes to one through four, nothing's pretty much changed. Five, I genuinely believe Indiana is just going to continue to progress because time and for all the things that Isaac alluded to earlier in terms of Siakum being there for full season. Philadelphia, it hurts seeing them there because we, it was announced during TD3 Tuesdays, 6 p.m. Eastern time, tap in again, that Joeline B. was not going to play. Exactly. Joelle and B. was not going to, is not going to play back to backs.

And they're going to be giving him super special treatment. And he's probably going to miss like a third of the season easily. That hurts. I'm about a third, but a good amount. A good amount. That hurts. The last, trait last season, without Joel M. B. Playing out there.

Tyree's maxi-led team was, I think the record was 16 and 27. That is nasty. Now, listen, they do have more depth, which is Paul George. He's not going to be here for at least like the next two to three weeks or so because he hyper-extended his knee. Well, he might be back for the start of the season. That's still TBD. Okay. I hope so.

But still? Yeah. If that's there, then, okay, I can see them maintaining like 500 level-ish. But at the end of the day, because of J-WMB is not going to be there, and I'm not sure how Tyrese Mac is going to be able to handle the full-time responsibilities of being the one on a team, which means, like, being able to do a combination of a certain level and, like, playmaking, I don't know if he's at. He's gone better at both consistently, especially in playmaking, but there needs to be,

he needs to be at a certain level. I don't know if he's there just yet. You got to see the leap, and I believe it can happen, but. again, you can believe a lot of shit over the summer. You got to see some of it happen and actually become reality. And I'm comfortable betting on Philly and betting on Tyree's Maxi, but I also moved down

a little bit on my list last second. I'll go and reveal that. Because I think Paul George might also not play back to backs for a while. So I think I had Boston 1, Knicks 2, Milwaukee 3, Cleveland 4, which that was a difference. I moved Philly down a spot, Philly at 5,

and Indiana at 6. Okay. Okay. I had Two olds, I aren't going to play a lot. Yeah, I have Boston at one, the Knicks at two, Cleveland at three, Milwaukee at four, Philly at five, Orlando at six. I really want to be optimistic by Cleveland. And I understand probably why you are. I'll let you explain that. I really want to be optimistic.

I just struggle to think of any logical reason why it should be other than hope. And I do know, never mind, because I do have one reason why I should be, which is Darius Garland will be better because he had an injury plague last season. So maybe that's the difference. But outside of that, I feel like I find myself. just really hoping that's something that we have seen for two years and hasn't worked as well as we wanted it for two years, we're kind of just like hoping it's just better for no real reason, you know? I get it.

Listen, they've been the four seed for the last two years. Yeah. Mind you, they were the four seed last year by choice. They intentionally tanked at the end of the season. And so had they won that game, they would have been the three seat. Like, we've seen, we've seen this team be very, very good in the regular season. And they've, like, you want to talk about being able to withstand injuries. They can do it.

They're, like, their issue, their issue is that they have two versions of the team that work well separately and they can't put together when they got injured last year. Exactly. Like, when you have withstand injury, they can improve upon injury. Exactly. When you have, when you have D. Mitch and Jared Allen, that works. When you have Garland and Mowgli, that works. You put all four.

them together and that's where it starts to get dicey in a playoff scenario but in the regular season they can really really win games and donovan mitchell has he is grown and he is now a player that is awesome offensively like he's obviously like always been great but his his playmaking his scoring has gone to another level we're seeing evimobly maybe not take the offensive leaps that everybody wants him to take but slowly right you know bricks are being put down the foundation is being built. We're seeing a couple things from him. And then also, again, Darius Garland missed so much time last year and broke his jaw.

Like having your jaw or your face broken has to be so uncomfortable. And to now go into this season, be fully healthy. We'll see what happens. I think that Cleveland is going to be very, very good. And with Milwaukee, to be honest, I really wanted to put them at five. I'm not going to disrespect you honest like that. But I do think that they have a lot. Like, it can go very, very poorly for Milwaukee.

Their floor is actually a lot lower than what you may think, even though that they have Dame and Janus. Because I've said it all summer long, Chris Middleton has no good ankles. Brooke Lopez is old. Dame, we have no idea what he's going to get. Yannis is getting hurt at the end of every season. Doc Rivers, you know, choke job artist number one.

their whole team on their whole start like they're all just old they they barely have any any people who are under the age of 30 and yeah one injury like it's it's over and so I'm not I'm not 100% sure that's very fair you convince me I I'm I'm I like Milwaukee at three just because I want to bet on the best case scenario with them just I think there's I think there's a good chance to get that but I recognize the floor is scary so I'm with you it's not crazy to put Cleveland 3. It's easy to get clouded by the issues with them and forget that they are always in the 3-4 seat. Like you said, they could have been the 3 if they wanted to. So I was probably blinded a little bit by the issues and forget, oh yeah, this is just, this is where

they are even with the issues. So I'm not mad at all. Yeah, I can agree with like both of these takes. Milwaukee's the oldest team in the league. I can understand all your reasons for what they are, but also at the same time too, like, you know, mentioned yonis always gets hurts. That's the postseason. I'm talking about the regular season. Yeah. If Yonis is on Demon Time, which I believe he will genuinely will be, because it almost feels like the NBA, you know, is like operating without Yonis, without acknowledging Yonis. It's still one of the top three best players in the entire planet. And if Damien Lillard is going to have an entire offseason of being the normal Damian Lillard that we've seen

over the last 10, 11 years, then I'm going to fairly assume and be optimistic enough that there will be number three. But Cleveland is just like that. Like you said, they're consistently stable they have two teams in one they just don't make sense they can throw in like a log jamming injuries and they're still going to be i because the players are right so i can agree to that i can yeah yeah so yeah i like that i philly at five same reason like on paper maxi pg and and and imb it does make sense when you ought to when you automatically cross off 15 games for imb on top of his normal wear and tear it kind of gets you know a little bit So you have that. And then obviously we talked about Orlando and in Indiana. I think that

KCP's shooting is going to help Orlando. I'm with you guys. I don't think that like he's not going to come in and then obviously all of a sudden they're like the 2016 Warriors. You know what I'm saying like this? It's not going to be open like that. But he will be better. And then also yeah. And also Franz we talked about on on the stream 6 p.m. Tuesday tapping, right? I'm buying stock in Franz Wagner and especially I think that the shooting that he had last year was an outlier to what he normally is and I'm not asking him to be 38 39% can you get to 33 34 because the jump from 28 to 34 will make a big difference for this team and I think it happens I think they avoid the play in okay that's fair yeah I think them paces are a one game difference so I have

no issue with the Orlando being six yeah of all the times I've hated on things Orlando magic base this is the least Haiti of them all I don't have any you with that at all. Look at you. I love to see it. Not really. Not really. Shut up.

Let me give you great. I feel the same. I feel the same. None of those feelings changed. I just think in this instance, six and seven is, that's the range I should be in. Yeah. But other than that, we don't got to explain Boston at one. We damn sure don't got to explain the next to two.

We all know the ridiculous amount of moves they've made. They are playing my GM flipping players every chance they can. And I think it'll lead to regular season wins because I think the offense will be unfuck-wit-wit-bill. equitable. TBD hug at the defense will be if that is good enough to really contend with Boston, but for regular season, they're going to blitz teams. I agree. Does this mean we can tap into the awards? It does. We can transition past the NBA standing predictions and get over to the award season, which is very interesting this time. Let's talk about it. Yeah. Yeah. Let me put this timestamp down real quick. There we go. This is going to be so interesting because I feel like this

MVP race point blank period is going to be some of the most interesting. entertaining we've seen in a couple of years easily. Yeah, we'll start with MVP, and we'll just reveal all of my ones. For the MVP race, I picked Luca Donchich. Of course. I like it. What do you mean by that? I just miss.

Noticing. It's his turn. Fair. Very fair. For audio listeners, Moe and Donovan both picked Shea Gildedus Alexander. See, I understand why. I let you guys explain it, though. I think

we all think okay C will be the one seed by easy margin I think they're going to destroy the West so my brain

also goes to Shay that means Shay's the MVP anytime we see a team come out and go nuts

usually the best player that's averaging 30 gets a good bump in MVP but I thought about it

I have the Dallas Mavericks as a two seed so if we get down to it and we had last year happened where

Luca Donchage averaged 34 points 10 rebounds and 10 assists damn near and got third place you know it's completely spurred that's going to you look back in history that's going that's going to look crazy that that wasn't a top two finish so i think we're finally going to see

the narrative start to build of like we got to give him one at some point and i think the narrative at the end of the season could be she's so dominant okay see so good look at their team it's insane luka has them at the two seed we've never seen the mavericks be a top three seed this is the first time lucid did that so now what can you possibly say he has the numbers and the wins he's doing just as much damninger with a little bit less give it to the better player yeah you explain that perfectly if I had the Dallas Mavericks as a number two

see it I forget what I had him at you had him at two oh yeah I did have him at two so the argument for Luca is similar to what you said like the numbers are just going to be the numbers they're going to be historical and undoubtable unquestionable you know I just felt like

if Shay has the ability to put up similar, like you say, diamond 31 point per game, five year round five assists, then the league might finally just be like here, there you go, such a dominant regular season performance. They're going to, I think they're going to clear 62, 63 games. But I'm so fuff up. I'm 50-50 when it comes to Luke Air Shea.

I just know that either of these two will win MVP. I don't have my thoughts on anyone else. How funny is it going to be when the Denver Nuggets of the two seed and Nicole Yolkish wins it again? He's not winning another one. He's not, you said that last year. I don't know. They're tired of the Serbian.

He's not going to do it again. He's not going to do it again. Last year. You can't keep getting away with this. Last year, obviously made up for some wrongs that happened the year before. That's why I can see Luca's MVP as that. I can also see Shay's as that. The Thunder had the number one seat last year.

Shea averaged 31, 5, and 5 is a really, really good defender. I can also see a situation where, yes, they are the number one seed, but from the national media perspective, how much credit are people actually going to give Jalen Williams? How much credit are people going to, like, I think people are going to give Chet Holmgren all his love, but like as a team, they are great? Are we going to get to a point where it's like Shay, Chet, and then kind of everybody else? And then you can still have Shay as like the lead guy, he's going to be MVP, all that stuff. So I, that's why I have Shay as the MVP because I do think

it is also kind of like Shea should have been it last year Let me tell you what Naird's going to be Nehers is going to be. Shay is exactly the same as last year Why are they so great all of a sudden and why are they the best team? Because they clearly added Caruso and Hardinstein Not because Shea leveled up. That gets going to be pretty clear that

Shea is still Shea and you think you're going to see J-Dubs numbers go up You're going to see Chet's numbers go up You're going to see those two nasty white boys I mentioned and Caruso and Hardinstein get added You're going to see, you know, that's a nice jump like everything besides Shea is going to improve on paper. So it's going to be hard to attribute the big jump to him, you know. All we're doing is who's, who's yours number two?

Shea. Yeah. Mine is Luca. Yeah. It has to be either one of those two. White now, like in when it comes to MVP, we're just going off of what these voters think and what they'll probably do based off of their logic over the last five to 10 years or so. And I almost might flip up because I'm like, oh, yeah, like, I did put the Dallas

Mavericks at number two. Let's go. Let's go. Luca genuinely is going to have some historical numbers that we've been the last time we've seen 33, 34. He has to win one eventually. Like, he can't just never win one. He's got to get one eventually. And if there's something that the media loves to do, they love to discredit top tier players

because of how good their team is. We see Jason. I don't know if Jason Tatea will ever. get to that point to where he'll be number one or two in MVP talks come come over another day because of all those things so it's like i i can see that i can see definitely definite avenue where bearer players are like our guys are like yeah i heart caruso jdub chet the team of stacks blah blah blah all these picks even though that isn't relevant to the conversation people are to say anything they can in over to shit on she and his MVP case but i don't think he's gonna get shit on

I'll just get second place because Luke is just the best player for generation who hasn't won one yet. And he'll have the record to show for it. Dark Horse is going to have some nasty things to say about that. Anthony Edwards. Anthony Edwards. Exactly. Not actually, no, Dark Horse, Nicole Enochich. I think Nikolai Yokic is probably going to be top three like he always is.

And we're going to look up and people are going to piss. And they're like, why does he always win? We're putting Janus back in this combo. If we get demon time, Janus, is he back in here? I have one singular Jason Tatum for you. Dark Horse MVP. Okay. Keep it.

Next defense. You say keep at Donovan and we'll suck out his air pod. D.P.O.I. I have not Victor Women Yama. Chet Hongrid is going to win DPOI. This is my one hot take of the whole thing. Listen, I think about it. Who wins DPOI every year?

The best defender on the best team. The Thunder are going to win like 64 games. And we're going to look up and they're going to have the best defense by far. How? When you get down to Niddy Gritty, Do you have Vity Women Yama on the 11-seat spurs with the 22nd best defense in the league versus Chad Holmgren, who might average 2.2 blocks instead of three on the best defense in the league by far at the number one seed because they're the best defense?

How do you not give that the Chad Holmgren? How was Wembe number two and Nd-D-R-P-O-I votes last year? How the hell did you count on that point? Same reasons apply as to how How Wemby was number two last year, even though his team was genuinely trash out that and who was one who was one the best offender

on the best fucking team that's what it was he got that he got that in the first half of the season shit might get it in the first half of the season it might be the same

exact story they're gonna be the number one defense him and caruso are gonna be ridiculous and maybe they'll split votes I don't know but I think the big man

typically gets the credit it might be the same thing we might see another second place I actually think Wemby's blocks might go down because eventually these guys are gonna stop trying he can't average

3.8 blocks forever like they're gonna just he's gonna be a deterrent to that point that now. You see that with every shot blocker because eventually teams realize don't try it against him.

You're not going to go well. The only reason he was two last year is because the numbers were absolutely ridiculous. I think you'll see that start to go down, which won't make him a worse defender. It'll just mean teams are not trying him. And yeah, the team defense difference is going to be crazy.

I'll say this. Off of John Moran alone, Wemby will have, Wembe's block would be the same because John Moran is going to try him. I if mo's right the fact that we saw wemby

be second last year with a trash defense everybody it felt at the end of the year and like obviously like the voting played out in a different way but there was a push for wemby to be d p o why and everyone was like I like we can't like let's not do this

to go bare because we everybody understood what we're watching and on a night to night basis yes he might not have the blocks you are going to see enough clips circulate of people running to the rim see Wemby and say oh no let me turn around

you're going to have that highlight reel his defense is going to be that impactful it's already if you look at the eyes the way people are talking about him it's kind of already stamped like it's his to lose at this point and what I see is bad money

and I see dude he I saw a screenshot there is value he was like $1.50 he was minus 150 and everybody else was like plus $1,200 it was crazy dude he's minus odds everybody else is plus odds bro i'm not a betting guy like that i would bet on the guy who is the second best defender of his young generation of players and going to be on the far better team and obviously wimby can win it i'm not going to be shocked it wimby wins it

for a lot of reasons you guys are saying but i think when voting actually comes down to it and you remove the hype and voters behave and more and more especially with d p oi d p oi is a statistical ass award these days number one defense almost always wins it. Last year was Gobert. Was it, Mark Smart was two years before that. Who won before Gobert? I forget. Sharon Jackson, Jr.

Jared Jackson, Jr. I don't remember what the defense was, actually. I think his was more of a Wembe case where he had a fuck ton of blocks. Yeah. But, yeah, I guess those are the two ways, right? You either win because you have ridiculous stocks, which you ask Bama to buy us, why he doesn't win, or you're the best defender on the best team, best defense, I should say. Chet might be both. He's also going to have a ton of stocks.

He's also going to have the number one defense. if Wemby didn't have the ridiculous hype he had, Chet would be the favorite. You're right, and that's why Wemby has an insane hype and that's why I'm like, yeah, he might just go ahead and win it. I've never seen someone.

Plus production. And I get it. He might win, but I think voters will care when it comes down to it in real life when they actually are looking down the barrel on their ballots, which are now public, and they have to tell people, I didn't give it to the guy

manning the number one defense. I gave it to the guy, Manning the 25 defense. If Shea doesn't win MVP If Shea doesn't win MVP Chet's not winning DPOI Either we give everybody the awards Or either we give everybody the awards Or either we give everybody the awards

And we recognize what we're doing here Or we're not doing it No, you got it backwards I think maybe Shet Maybe Shay doesn't win the MVP Because he has the DPOI on his team And that's the narrative Is he has a DPOI

No. Luca has Derek lively Like Roll out the red carpet for the thunder Let's give Shay the MVP we can give check the DPR Y but I don't think half of that's going to happen I think Wemby has it on lock already all we're talking about right now is what makes better TV really here's a thing too though people get bored of narratives

if he is if he has it on lock and then you go through a whole year that's a lot of time for people to convince themselves otherwise because like I understand what you guys are saying I'm with you I understand he has it unlocked from a narrative perspective right now yeah but there's a lot of time for like to change and people to talk themselves out of it I almost feel like it works against them in reality that people are so sure right now because that sets the expectations insanely high

I think people expect like he's going to be the DPOI we expect that they better be a top 10 defense they better be so and so and when they're just not it's going to be a lot of ways to be like maybe he's overrated defensively so number two on my DPOI ballot

was Chet if Chad doesn't win it for you Isaac who's going to win Victor of Yama damn no Janus even though he has I mean go bear doing some or shit like that. Gobert?

No, I don't know. I don't know if they're going to like Gobert get it. You know what? You know what? If Chet doesn't get it, you know who's getting it? Alice Caruso. Oh, hell. Let's not do that again.

All right. Let's not let a guard win it again. One of these guys are, I mean, just guilty. If there was going to be a guard to win it, Alex is not a bad choice. Let's give it to Yonis and just put this to bed. There's no way in hell the bucks have a top three defense where Yonis can win it. Yeah, I know.

Okay, next award. Yeah, it's hype talk. I hate hype. God damn it defies all logic. Rookie of the year. I have Zach Edy. Mo has Zachary Sashay and Donovan has Zach Eadie. Wow.

Okay. So first, you've been talking about, you've been talking about some demon Eaddy, demon Eaddy, deemini, how am I a munch? I'm speaking facts. Did you see what Zachary Richie say he's done? Do you see Edy putting up 24 and 10 in the preseason? Preseason, congratulations. Cool beans are not going through one of the posts. You don't even.

like this guy. I love these guys. I like Edie out. I don't even like Zachary to say. Stop it. Listen, I do not play about my black beans. Don't play with me like that. What?

It's necessary on the Chipotle label. But regards to the fact, I think Zachary Richet is going to get, I don't want to say, more opportunity, but I think his stat lines are going to be just as even as, as, as, uh, ED. But really, I think what's going to be the determining factor is that he's going to have a little a bit more opportunities, points are going to be there. He's not going to have the rebounds, of course, but I think he's going to be the real. He might average 13 rebounds. He might average 14.

Who knows at this point in time. I think he's going to walk in the league is like maybe the best offensive rebounder in the game. I think that's, he has a chance of doing that for show. As long as he stays healthy, he has a chance to do that. But in terms of opportunity, I think these two guys are the only answers. I would put, I think Reed Shepers would be in this conversation. But Jalen Green's there, and he's not going to get those minutes. And if he does, it's going to be way too way.

Exactly. No one's going to care. So I think this race belongs to these two. No, Reechepard is definitely going to be on the ballot, too. I think those are the top three. Yeah, I agree. But yeah, I'm not mad at recess. Yeah, I get it.

I mean, he first, he has to take DeAnd a hundred starting job. I don't know if that's going to be immediate. That has to happen first. I think Zach, he's going to start from day one. So that's not really a factor. I think he's an average, like, I don't know, 12 points, 12 rebounds. He's big because of probably two blocks. He might have just a crazy stat line.

Yeah, okay. Yeah, I'm not mad at Ead winning this at all. I can't be mad at it. Five offensive rebounds of game, just looking like Andre Drummond, like. And again, keep mind, he's 23 years old. So I would hope that he's more productive off Rip than Zachary Richie Shea is.

God damn, he is a cheat code. He's old. He's a cheat code. He's ready. Thing about Zach Richer say is that he plays like he's a little old. He plays like he's like 25, 26, and dude just started to the league. Yeah, he's very smart. He's very smart.

He's very smart. He's very smart. very few pounds that he has and also the length is there he's kind of fearless to a certain degree as well smart player smart player and i think if the hawks are able to surprise and anyone in being the like eighth seed and which is a lot to be in the playoffs which no one had them to be well not lock that's playing but if they're able to make the playoffs point blank period there's going to be a lot of buzz for britchie and rookie of the year we can move on Donvin, you have any thoughts?

Nope. No, I do not. Deep NeNeity is taking it home. Okay. Yeah, this is pretty easy. I mean, he's the odds-on favorite, and I think for a good reason. He's older, more NBA-ready, body-wise, development-wise, and in a position where he has to start from right away. Yeah.

Perth recipe. That's fair. I can agree with that. Sixth man of the year. I have Dante DiVincenzo. Mo has to say a Hardinstein, which I'm assuming you picked that before the injury was broke. he's now probably not complaining up games and then donovan has dante de vincenzo yeah obviously mine is chalked because of the news happening the same day that we recorded or before i actually wrote down

my list so it's tough scene i would have dante number two though easy donovan tells us about dante why is he winning six man of the year because he's a sniper this this this his white man is dangerous and he's and he's going to bring a dimension to the to the timibou's offense that they didn't really have last year and like to have this like mobile artillery unit that that dante is it's it's it really is like it's going to open up the floor and so whenever you have julius randall who's playing down low and you have rudy gober who is obviously like always close to to the basket really a non-threat offensively you have anthony edwards handling the ball trying to get down downhill trying to get to the basket who's facing the floor for him mike connolly okay

Vincenzo? Absolutely. You can run so many actions and you, and again, like I mentioned earlier, the two-man game between Dante and Julius Randall, you've already seen that open up for threes. You've already seen Dante run off screens and have a two-man game with Anthony Edwards. Him being out there is going to cause a lot of teams to have to pick their poison on the perimeter. Exactly. Yeah. And whether or not you want to send your resources to ain't going downhill or, you know, send them to Julius down on the block or leave a 40% three-point shooter wide open. I love what you said.

That's something that Minnesota hasn't had the ability to, like, do since the Antigant Edwards era has started. Like, they haven't had the ability to be like, yeah, pick your poison because it's always been Delo there or Mike Conno and Delo's inconsistency's has been insane. That's why they got rid of him. And Mike Connolly's not like a high-alctane type of, he's not, he has no firepower, it's a natural to his game. but Dante Divencho has hell of fire in Nitro to his game.

He's a walking flamethrower, ripping him at 8, 9 attempts per game, knocking down 40%. Like, it's, I love this. I love this pick. Yeah, he's the easy pick right now. And I feel like six men in the year is never actually easy pick. Like maybe Dante ends up having to start games because somebody gets hurt. We never actually go chalk with this award, I feel like.

But Hardinstein also might start games and he gets back at times. So he's maybe not necessarily my second pick. Somebody always comes up to woodwork. Like, it might be Bogdan Bogdanovitch or somebody random. I mean, yeah, it was. He was on fire last year, but he just didn't play any game simple as that. Yeah. I don't know.

Who else could really jump out for this? Like, shit is, is Rob Dillingham going to be taking the reins as a rookie? I don't know. I doubt it, but, hey, Reed Shepherd. Reed Shepherd, maybe in the sixth man the year talks. Reed Shepherd could be her, well, who's in this, who's coming off of the bench for Minus for the Noron's Pelicans? Who knows, but maybe, listen, if it's.

If it's CJ, yeah, if it's CJ, yeah, if it's Herb Jones, I don't know, that just sounds so crazy, but there's no room unless they put if it's someone in New Orleans, let's say that, someone in New Orleans. Yeah, we're really inside a bench. Yeah. Okay, we move on the next award while Donovan Tinkles.

Coach of the year, Clean Sweep, we all put Mark Dagnall. I actually, yeah, I actually don't really think he's going to win it back to back, but I also looking at the standings of what I predicted, I don't, a lot of times this award is won by somebody whose team is so much better than expected. And I didn't really predict any huge jumps in that way. So there's no clear winner to me. So I was like, I'll just go with the guy who's going to be on the coach of

the best team. I feel like the rest of the league or at least general consensus doesn't understand still. Maybe my perceptions is wrong, but I'd feel like they're underrating how far and away OKC is going to be this year. Yeah. Yeah. But I actually, I actually think it'll probably be somebody from a surprising team. We just don't know who that surprising team is yet. Like maybe if the Hornets come out and they're like the six seed, maybe it could be Charles Lee. Okay. Or maybe it could be if the Phoenix Sun's like really so insane improvement end up being number two seed. Mike Boonehor's going to run away with that award easily. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, he's a he's a great pick or I'm Adoka if they're also like pushing that

six seven seed range. Facts. I agree. I agree. Okay. We're on lockstep. Last one, Most improved player. Hey, man, the Hawkinson shown love today. I have Jalen Johnson. Mo has Jalen Johnson and Donovan has Emmanuel Quigley. This is the most hyped nine seed of all time. You shut your mouth. Don't ever say that again in your life.

The hype is real. Imagine a mo to picture a young for MVP. That'd have been hilarious. Nah, let's relax. I'm not like that. Now, something I will say is that I was kind of dicey on picking Jalen Johnson for MIP because statistically speaking what

history says, what the track register says, I don't make the rules. If you're MIP, that literally means that you're, if you're not an all-star, you're just right there from missing it because there's simply better, more solidified names on that list. And I don't

know if the Hawks would be good enough for Jalen Johnson to be an all-star just yet. Like, there's only so many teams in the entire NBA that can have two all-stars on your team and those teams typically come from top four or five worst-case scenario like six teams and none of us had them ranked six so but with that being said I think Jaylon Johnson's time will come when it comes to being a all-star just not this year

and I'm defying when NBA history says and he'll probably win it this year even though he could have won it last year but he just didn't play enough games yeah that's that's the only reason why I didn't pick him is because he already was really really good last year and statistically I don't know if the jump is going to be big enough for him to get there from from what he from what he average and if everyone if the voters are kind of like hey you know like he should have won it last year but sucks to suck he wasn't in the combos last year like that we thought that but he wasn't like in the discourse he got he got hurt he got hurt yeah exactly so like exactly so people don't really associate him like he didn't finish second or anything so

yeah I don't really see that ding in him at all he wasn't on the ballot you know he wasn't allowed to be. So I don't really care about that. Listen, if he can be there, great. I just, I'm not really last year he averaged 16, 9, and 4. I think he usually get up to like 21, maybe 22, 9, and 5, bare minimum, you know, and those type of numbers aren't at Scotty Barnes type territory that we're talking about right now. Not saying that he's that good just yet, but he can make up a lot of ground and that's just because his weird as NBA career so far where he wasn't getting playing at all because we had milk done McMillan

and then like yeah just things happening as NBA career missing time too so yeah John Johnson is going to be erupting and that is the last of our awards oh whoa no no no real quick real quick I have makeshipped awards on my

list last year I believe we had scammer of the year all right now That could be GMs, front offices, players, whatever the case might be. And I believe my scammer of the year was someone on the Wizards. Don't remember, don't necessarily remember. Probably Jordan. But this year.

I have two candidates for scammer. No, your scammer of the year. No, your scammer of the year last year was Missai, Ujuri. Oh, yeah. You're right. You're right. You're right. You're right.

I remember I had someone who's going to Maasai. It's my brother. What do you mean? So this year's scammer of the year. I'm talking about my brother, though. two candidates right here David Griffin we've talked about them so many times

doing all the wrong things this robbing us from really good basketball and Chicago Bulls not front office team not their coach but their ticket selling team I feel so bad for those people paying top notch prices for like front court seats season

those season holders they're getting ripped off scam to oblivion to watch Josh Giddy minutes I feel so bad Oh, my God. And that's the most scammers of the year. How to get that in there. And now it's time for some crayons.

Crayon eaters, rejoice! Welcome to TikTok time. Today we're going to begin with something that has been quite topical on the internet. We are going to begin with the ESPN Top 100 list. I don't know if you guys have seen this at all. But every year, ESPN ranks the top 100 players in the NBA for the following season. And every year it's fucking dog shit It's made for engagement bait

And we're going to take the bait We're going to react to it I'm going to name an NBA player And I want you to guess Where ESPN ranked them In their top 100 list Let's talk about it Now the only thing that I know

About this list Is that they always say That they're projecting for the next year That's not like a current ranking They're saying after the next season This is where it's going to be Yeah it doesn't make it better But it's still trash

It's still just They know what they're doing First player First player Chris Paul, where do you think they ranked him? Not on the list. He's probably like very back end like 90 or something. I'm going 78.

Oh, you're a way too generous. They ranked him at 99. I thought it was squeaking when I said 90. Oh my gosh. What's even worse is as you see here? Herb Jones is 97. No, no, no, no, no. First team all be.

That's a typo. That's a typo. 97. That has to be a typo. Please tell me the typo. I wish I could. Oh, damn. In what world is he in 97?

Didn't he shoot like 40% from the three point line last year? And he's the best premier defender in the NBA. It's ridiculous. The best that they can offer you. How? Chris Paul at 99. I don't know. I mean, he's old, but I guess that's fair.

He's behind Mike Conley, which Mike Connolly is definitely better. Same range. Yeah, Mike Colleen is probably better at this point of his career, but same range, whatever. Herb Jones is there? That's what's more jarring to me. All to a terrible start. Yeah. We're going to see most of the list via these next five I'm showing.

Okay. Nasty. Okay. Isaiah Hartinstein. They either are on his jock like crazy or they're disrespected him. I'm feeling they're on their jock on his jock. He might be top 40. He might be top 40.

Okay, top 40 is a lot. I will go top 50, though. I'm going to say he is. we'll go 49 I'll say 41 guys he's 88 what oh disrespectful

he's behind Jaime Hawkes what are we talking about this is one of the best role players in the NBA and he's number 88 Jaime Hawkes conference who do you think Jaime Hawkes is he must have a family member working up in that organization

congratulations you have successfully succeeded in making clickbait with this list. This is exactly what you wanted to do and you have succeeded. You wanted me to call you stupid and I promise you, I will take you up on that. This is dumb as hell. Mission every single time I have an opportunity to call him stupid. I will do it again. Stupid. My heart should be like top 60 probably. Yeah, at least. At least. I thought they would glaze, but wow. And Nasreed 87. I would have. I would have. Okay, you didn't need to say it twice. Oh. Oh. But, um,

Okay, next player Who else? I'm not sure 87 I mean I think Isaiah Isaiah Hardens signs better than Nasreed I don't feel like That's a hot take

I understand I think there's same range Same level Heart is better Yeah it's not Jaime Hockey but Jaime there's a clown in the room

You know that me Yeah there's a clown in the room right now The one silly dragon The Three Heads Yeah that is Jaime Shout out Jaime man But not number 86 Yeah

Maybe he is 86 but Isaiah Hardinstein damn sure shouldn't be 88 if that's the case I agree terrible okay next player Zachary Levine

he hasn't played in forever and his stock in general league but doesn't project it for next season um projecting for next season you have you have the bulls bump that he gets because we just ESPN they're just going to cover the

bulls you have the light skin tax you have the score tax he might be like I can see them putting him at like 43. Okay, let's say 39 for me. Oh, you guys are so stupid. 74. Wow.

He is behind Jalen Green, Bradley Beal, Austin Reeves, and Clay Thompson. He's just behind different versions of himself. Facts, all of which are worse. Also, I'm sorry, Jared Allen 73. What the hell? He's the best player here. This is nasty work. Are we worse than ESPN?

Because we've rated all these guys higher. 74 is outrageous. Zach Levine deserves criticism to some extent. 74 is disgusting. He is so much better than this. Since when did we stop respecting buckets in this game? You know what I'm saying? This is...

I get it. We lose the recipes. I get it. I get it. We've seen him have multiple serious injuries and miss out on seasons. He's had beef with this team. That is crazy. But 74 is nuts.

shit it's nuts it's disgusting outright disgusting i don't like that next one lemelo ball well let's see they're ranking everybody else super super low i'm gonna say somebody's gotta be high i'm actually no i think that they're disrespecting lamello too we're gonna put lamello at 62 jesus christ i'm sticking on my guns i think they're gonna be 25 he might be 25 mo is certainly closer he is number 50 barely closer oh my god he is not close I lied God damn Lamele ball is number 50

Right right next to Aaron Gordon Tingis Tingis He's in Evan Mowgli Conversations DeMarrozen conversations I get it

Lamele ball is never healthy But when he is healthy I don't know how you can look at him next to Aaron Gordon He's an all-star These guys are the same When he's healthy He's one of the best 24 players in the world

And maybe this list is assuming he missed his six games again, which I guess go ahead, but feels like it's not in the spirit to assume that. ESPN, you don't even surprise me anymore. God damn. I don't know what to say. It's not even fun.

What are you even doing here right now? Tingas, Pingu's 46 feels I guess that's a bit low. Yeah, I think it's okay. Maybe a little, a little, but I'm not losing sleeping. It's fine. I mean, 50. What are we talking about right now?

50? What are we doing? Tough time. Next one. Alperin Sangoon. If they don't respect La Mello, they damn sure don't respect him. We're going to go 84.

I don't know. 84 is a sure. Listen, listen, listen. Now, going by ESPN's logic right now, going by ESPN's logic right now, they put, they disrespected Lamello, dispected Zach Levine, disrespect CP3,

all relatively heart on a consistent basis. Alphren Zungan is, on the uprights are probably on his jocke like crazy that's what we thought that's what we thought he's top 30 uh it's number 54 oh is i try to make sense for you every time and you let me down yo r j barrett is ahead of singoon see three years ago this is exactly what i would have been arguing as well think about the old days they're the old days they're the old days they're the old days I understand. Sanguid is so much better than Barrett.

This is outrageous. So you tell you. Which is a common theme here. These are all outrageous. Like there's there anybody on this list that is right where they're supposed to be? Ogen, Nobie. Nogh, number 51. Very fair.

There you go. And saying his injury concern and a lot. Yeah, sure. Put him at 51. Aaron Gordon. Frons. Sure. Franz.

And Franz Wagner 52? Why not? And everybody else around that? Bat's shit crazy. 54 Afrensing Goon. Tough. Oh my gosh. disrespectful

Trey Young Mo oh brother you got it take your guess he should be top 30

bare minimum they might put him at like 60 they might put him at 60 okay I'm not relax they put him at 39

they put him at 39 37 you're very close yeah this is too low this is too low it's not I mean

It's not the craziest one we've seen so far. Drew. It's definitely too low. Drew. Trayune should be closer to number 30. Scott Barnes. Rudy. Rudy.

Larry. I love Laurie, but let's be real. Rudy. Rudy so much. Rudy! You ever watch a proud family? He has a daughter. He's always like, Trudy!

God damn it, Rudy. That's a pretty good impression. Yeah. Yeah, Tray Young should be closer. number 30 37 to bit low yeah it's this is not the worst this is probably the best ranking so far I hate to say it wow Palo Bancaro 22 damn I they probably have him high there's no reason to put him lower like this is just like he's on he's been on the uprise has done nothing in his game to disappoint

I'll go 27 actually I go 27 he's 24 good stuff okay ahead of Zion Williamson, ahead of Deeran Fox, ahead of Jimmy Butler, and ahead of Sabonis. Because of Zon's inconsistencies of the health, I can understand an argument. Yeah, if you're projecting and you assume Zion keeps getting hurt and Palo keeps getting better, I get how they got here,

but I'm still going to rank Zion ahead of him, I think. Why the hell is the bonus here? Who invited him to the party? Get him out of here. That's fair. 29 is a fair spot for him. That's about where he's at. I'll put by like 32, maybe.

Who invited him to the party? 24 is a bit high for palo but it's it's projection so i could see by the end of the year he's 24 it's not bad i think it's just it's it's all right it's i like it now it's a fair projection give him another year to improve on that jumper and his sought diet too yeah it could be higher it's a it's optimistic but not too much so yeah next one jaw morant oh no those corporate guys hate him they hate him. They hate him. They're a brand risk. They got to rank them low to show

how down they are at PC. 30. 31. They probably have him outside the top 30. I don't think they have him at 31. They probably would say he's better than Troy Young and Troy Young's 37. They probably have him at like 29,

maybe. No, not 29. Number 20. 20. Oh. Hmm. Whoa. Okay. Tyree's Maxy is ahead of John Morantz. He is the head of John Morantz.

Tyrese, Haliburton has had a John Morant too. I can mean, I guess that maybe if he shoots like in-season tournament Tyresearch Halliburton. But Maxie over Jav, come on. I love Maxie, but let's be serious. Ja, I need you to gritty over the entire league this year. Please. No controversy. On their face.

Remind them. I think he should be closer to 15 maybe closer to 10 if you're being optimistic 20 is a bit low 20 is disgusting work there's no reason to put to have a conversation with kawai and john moran you can't assume that kawai's going to be held that's ridiculous to do is kawai top 25 nope is he going to play 25 games yeah that's the conversation yeah i don't know top 50 you didn't kawai shangoon right now I know I talk about I'll tell you that

yeah whoever's showing up alright next one Devin Booker I think he's gonna be 12 13 Ah okay good job

That's about Rod Rankin 12 or so They did 15 Wow Jalen Brown better than Devin Booker and no universe

in hell is this accurate Jailin Brown Buzz It's not crazy but i it's crazy and has always been better he's always been better jalen brown's ever been better a day in his life than devon booker this is crazy a day in his life kind of crazy haliburton over de mitch though i don't like that i don't like me either i don't like that but bookers close to the 10 than 15 this finals MVP is giving jalen brown so much grace and i like it i'm the

biggest jalen brown fans the next guy next to me but over devon bucker no one's ever thought of Jalen Brown as the best shooting guard in NBA. Devin Booker has had that title for the last few years, four or five years. Except Celtics fans, Celtics fans will tell you he's been that for years. Exactly. Listen, Jaylor Brown. They don't count. He's at a very successful offseason to say the least.

Facts. Tell me out. Good PR right now. How so? Next player. Victor Wenbenyama. Seven. Damn.

No, I don't know. Probably 12. 10. split the difference he is number 11 ahead of Anthony Davis Wow Wow General Britson I can understand

But Anthony Davis The AD one is The AD one is kind of nasty Steep Yeah AD should be like If Vick's 11 I'd put AD at 10 I think he'll still be slightly better this year

But hey Brunson Brunton over AD I'm not mad at it Not upset Good job I don't love it I'm not a fan. Just say you hate the truth.

I hate lies. I know, is 11 a bit much? Is that a bit of a big glaze? If you're projecting best case scenario for Vic, no. You got it. But like, it has to happen. He better win DPO wide. He better drag him into a 7th seat if he's an 11th best player in the world.

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. Joel Embed Get this man out of my top five I don't want to see him Anywhere near my top five

I will give him credit Some kind of credit I'll put him at eight Wow the first one you guys get right He is number eight on this list Okay That's eight is insane I understand he doesn't put

He's had real injury issues Doesn't show 100% for the playoffs You probably rank him in real life Of course you're okay with that You're in the same board As PM you have a problem I have a question though why is everybody's picture

clear and he has the blurry one I hate him why is he giving that no I mean listen Joelle and Bita is so much better than the eighth player in the world this is ridiculous is he but but I mean if he's not going to play games if they want to ding him for that I guess

but in terms of when they're on the court obviously he's a top five player in the world like it's ridiculous to think otherwise but the games played might matter and I guess I guess that's fair. Why is Tatum ahead of Curry and LeBron? It's kind of crazy if you ask me. What is an NBA exam?

I guess they think this is the year. I guess they think this is the year where the age starts to hurt these guys more? I don't know. Never in a million years is Curry and LeBron going to be worse than Tatum. Sorry. I mean, eventually they're going to be old.

I don't know. That's going to happen eventually. They could be 80. I'm still taking them over Jason Taylor. Gawk, got, got, cock. Speaking facts. Listen, most is just telling you what the world thinks. We saw, we saw what happened in the Olympics, world basketball, best players in the world.

Jason Tatum can't get on the floor. And obviously number two is Luca, number one is Nicola Yokic. That's the top of their list. Okay. Two. Okay. Okay. This top four is the most accurate that they've probably had.

I like the top four. Yeah. Top four is fine. But I, Joel and has to be five to me still. I know the injury concerns are a thing. If they weren't, he would be like top three. Five is still accounting for that. Eight is a bit much for me.

He's lucky Yabuselli is on his team now so he can't beat him in the NBA too. Oh my gosh, Yabuselli conversations. Shout out to him, though. Shameful. Next thing we're going to do. You foul bait in the Olympics. Oh, my God. Sucks a suck.

Next thing we're going to do, I'm going to show you guys some random ass NBA jerseys, and you guys are going to try to guess who they belong to. Which players' jerseys is this? Do we know all? Let's do it. Do you know obscure jersey ball? That's the answer. That's a question here.

Are we... Nostalgia. Are we premium frat boys in the world? Let's see. Let's find out. First off, whose jersey is this? See, this iconic. Shout out to Derek Rose.

I love it. I remember that 50-point game. Nice. I love it. Real hoops. Let's talk about it. This is Derek Rose. That was easy.

I almost started crying just now man What? Come on now I had to start with the layup I thought maybe the jersey being a throwback would throw you off but it does say Fitbit So I guess that was a bad one It does have the Nike and it does have the ad They need to bring these jerseys back so bad

I love them There's so many good throwbacks man Why does the team have to suck? Historically Yeah Sorry. Not currently. Next to you.

I'm next player. Whose jersey is this? Ew. I know this one. Do you know, Donovan? This is stinky. I think I do. But you got it.

Bob. Is this? Tobias Harris. No, this is not Tobias Harris. Oh, dang. That's all I do. Damn. Okay, if it's not Tobias Harris.

Is this Blake Griffin? This is not Blake Griffin. Okay, not Blake Griffin. 34? I have no idea who this is. Is this John Lurierce? now you guys are cooked this is Leangelo Ball

Lee who wouldn't know this you're a true you're a real ball noor if you have a real ball noir Le Angel ball this has to be going crazy at Delta Chi parties this is going up

elite throwback if I see do you think LeVar has this jersey hanging or do you think he doesn't care about it It's not worthy of a frame. There's just three Lonzo jerseys from the different teams I said. Yeah.

No. Only real big ballers play 10 games in the league. Whose jersey is this? I got this in the heartbeat. We know this. This is one of the OGs of the game. All right. Someone who was a little bit ahead of this time.

This is P. Millie, Paul Millsap. This is not Paul Millsap. You're so confident. It's not Paul Millsap. What? Paul Milsap didn't wear number four. I don't know. Did he? This isn't Paul Milsap. Is this? Oh, shit. Is that this year? And is this Russell Westbrook? This is Russell Westbrook. See, he tricked you. He tricked you. This was P. Millie's number though. He wore number four. I was not wrong. Show the camera. I was not right. Did he wore number four with an Ibada sponsorship on the top right? I don't think so. No, it's Western Union. Damn it. Damn Two L's in a row You guys suck

Damn Whose jersey is this Oh this is Oh don't don't Don't disrespect This is Three to the dome Carmelo Anthony

There we This is Carmelo Anthony I do it again God damn He's poking the shit He's poking the shit I was in Yeah you don't need

I understand I saw this man play in person I've seen this jersey With my own two eyes It's a thing of beauty Yeah I know at the meat as 12 points. Yo, I actually think he did have

at 12 points. Of course he did. That one player where he was, he was doing nothing but straight jabs steps to Zahn Williamson, was able to score on him. That's hoops. Okay, next one. Whose jersey is this?

Oh, see, I know this. This specific Cleveland Cavaliers jersey, I bought this one in a LeBron James. This was my first jersey that I bought with my own money. And this year, 33, that's the year that a washed Shaquille O'Neill played on the team That's my only guess

This is Cadd Shaq Hardwood classic 33 is just such a wide back number bro like You don't see that number Like God damn You know how You know a check to look

Like to wear that jersey Like Ooh man You're on pound mandate Yeah If you have this jersey You are wearing this jersey In the pool

Like that That's what you're at That's what you're at. What the fuck? Oh, my God. You're running into a cookout specifically, well. This is so nasty. Double-fisted dogs.

You know, at the top of your life, though. Okay, next one Who is this player? See, you help this out Because nobody's number is 08 This is the draft year And so this is also A player that we saw earlier

This is Russell Westbrook How did you get that one? This is Russell Westbrook He never actually wore a song's jersey So I thought it was gonna be a good trick But you got it He's a ball noer he's a notice sir

oh wait oh he gives it I've never seen an 0801 what if the league started doing that that would be ugly yeah they have the double that was the year

yeah yeah oh I didn't even recognize that I was wondering why I was an eight damn god I got you guys whose jersey is this be careful be careful right you might think that this is a man

Thompson however I got it is this Okay. Former D.C. legend John Wall. This is John Wall. Shout out to the 9-19. Oh, my gosh.

Shout out to those forgettable 50 games he was in Houston. That was not a fun time. I know he was so pissed when James Harden, like, demanded a trade thinking he was going to be. Right after you got there? Yeah. I thought it was us. Yeah.

I thought it was up, bro. It was damn buggy. Ew. They thought they were cooking. He's like, bro, I got to deal with Stephen Silas all year? He's like, no, I'm going home. It's just him and Victor Elipo cooking. Scary times.

Boys are outside. Bad year, man. Whose jersey is this? Ooh. Green with the piss on it. I don't know who this is. I don't want to know what this is. This is nasty.

This is Gordon Hayward. Is it? It is. Yes. Ew. I just so sad that I have to see this jersey in my face. I see like these. actually weren't, weren't too, too bad.

They're all right. It looks like Utah Jazz jerseys. They're like, not even Utah Jazz. I'm thinking like Green Bay Packers jerseys. Ew. Stay in your lane. This is basketball. Look at you.

Bringing a football reference. First time to you through history. Look at it. It's a little bit light work, light work. That's it. One of the four teams, you know. Next one. Whose jersey is this?

See, the easy answer would be LeBron But I think that this is actually Mr. Born Ready Lance Stevenson Oh my God, I'm surprised you got that one This is Lance Stevenson You're a nasty guy for that How do you know that?

How? He crossed the air green He did and he did the air guitar thing too With the air guitar With he got game 13s on I kind of play wow that played an iconic man wow okay i love he got game 13s they're amazing okay that's random whose jersey is this see got the i don't know mario his own you who the hell is this

ew no only memory i have a mario his own you in the nix jerseys when he blocked the bronze shot at the buzzer first year yeah uh next one like 42 games a year is that 8 8 8 8 8 this corny who the hell is eight i can't remember corny lee wow i can't remember if they i went to to nikey by this point i don't think this is kemble walker this is campbell walker there we go yeah why don't you get one shout to kimber walker man he's a he's a he's a assistant coach for the hornets shout it to him that's far i didn't even know that yeah and that's the last one okay you guys do you guys know a little bit of jersey ball you guys are a decent job okay i never get pretty good yeah next thing we're going to do

We're going to talk about Lamello Ball. You know, we're going to continue a series you've been doing where we're going to gauge how good he's going to be compared to the rest of the league by comparing him to five levels of other point guards. Okay. So real simple, I'm going to name an NBA player. You tell me who's going to be better. Him or Lamello Ball. First up, is Lamello going to be better than D'Angelo Russell this season? 100%.

Better than D'Angle Russell since he came into the league, day one. Yes, he is. He was born better. born better since he was a fetus I'm just kidding okay that's an easy one again as always got to start off easy level two

Cade Cunningham this is real conversations see the only thing that would determine if Cade is better is if Lamello doesn't play but if Lamello plays he will be better yeah they both have a lot of promise

and a lot of potential and a lot of questions I've seen Lamello answer those questions when he can actually play. Still TBD on Kate if he's going to actually get better. Yeah. La Mello, it is. I agree. Man, I hope he plays more than 40 games.

Le Mello, please double tape your ankles. Do whatever you need. Drink some milk. And sure, please, let's do it. Fair life. Core power. Level three. Is he better than DeJante Murray?

Yeah, he got that. Easily. He got that. Easily. I actually wish you would have. flip them. I mean, this is where you got to think about it because the games played. Dejante's not amazing, but he's good. He's safe. He's reliable. Who plays 70 games a year? If Lemello ball doesn't play, he's doing something productive, which is giving me the number one

overall pick or number two overall pick. Brandon Miller. If Dejante Murray plays, he's not getting me to the promised land. And he's also not giving me like the top two of your pick. Give me lamella ball. Any lamello? Yeah, when he's on the court, LaMello is just way more dynamic off defensively. If Dejante Murray was still the elite defender, he wasn't, he was young, then I would give it to him maybe. But the defense hasn't really been there. Yeah, no, he did improve us three points shot. But the defense, seven attempts for a game on 30% don't move you. It moves me. I'm sick. I'm 30. 30. 30. Okay, we can give him that one. It's going to get dicey though now because the game's played is going to matter. Level four, Deeran Fox. The Aaron Fox, you got me DeR Fox, you got it You might get me

Wait, hold on Even if Lamelo's healthy I don't know He has to get a lot better defensively Before I can give him A nod over Deeron Fox Who's just guaranteed

25 points per game Guaranteed decent passer Gonna lead a good offense Lemella's got to prove it still Oh man Lemello ball At his absolute peak The best version of Melo ball

Is Jim E better We just have yet to see it yet Even though he's made an all-star game And he, you know was fairly healthy for a singular season, I need more proof because Deeron Fox Yeah, in theory he could be better But again, the health is where this

But the health is where this comes in Because he hasn't been able to develop that way So it's kind of irrelevant what he could be We know Deer Fox is that right now It's Deer Fox. It's no question. And there you go. Lamello, you lose a level four. You couldn't make the run to level five.

Even if he did, John Morant was waiting for you. Oh, yeah. You're getting done up by John Moran. bang yeah no it's not to be close there we go lamello gets all the way to level four not bad could have been worse you guys could have hated more on the injury luck but that's not bad next thing we're going to do I'm going to name an NBA player and I want you to tell me on a scale of 1 to 10

how much pressure they're under this season okay I'm sitting up you ready to hate this is exactly what I signed up for yeah who's gonna be criticized by the media if they fail the most you know who's got to prove it to donovan prove it to the arbiter because i'll be waiting i'll be waiting you're going to be in their dreams like freddie kruger or what nine dreams i'll be in the dms oh god why didn't you do this why didn't you make that shot i'll be waiting i know carlainty towns haste to see a donovan clip coming okay first off be worried joel imbid oh 10 10 out of 10 pressure you've already started the season saying you're not going to play back to backs.

Fine. Miss 15 games off rip. I've seen you year after year. No playoff run. No playoff run. Choking in the playoffs. Now you finally have another big three. I need to see something.

The world needs to see something this year. It's 10 out of 10 pressure. I don't even think it's possible to have more pressure than Joel Embedde. Like he has so much pressure that he feels that he's like, I don't even want to win the MVP. I'm over it. It just has more pressure. You can have it. That says a lot.

Facts. This is he was talking about he already lost like 25 pounds and you want to lose even more weight. He might gain body dysmorphia at this point at this rate because like, God, damn, how much weight you need to lose, bro. Just don't play basketball for a little bit. Be cool. Go ahead and get your training and all that other stuff in. He definitely has either nine or 10 because no, I can name a very few of mine of superstars who've been put in better positions than Joel and B.

just in terms of consistently his organization is doing the right thing bro yeah yeah plenty of chances that go metal not going to save you number two Victor wimbonyama this may seem like not a lot because he's still young and the team isn't expected to do anything

but he's being hyped as like he's going to be a top 12 player this year if he doesn't succeed and hit that mark there's going to be some convos yeah that's why I'll say I'll say six So he's not like a fully formed player and everyone still understands that like he still has things that he can improve on and he is a year two player. But at the same time for the last three years before he even got into the league, everybody was already like, yeah, Victor is the guy. So there is some pressure on him to be the guy now.

If people can get on a mic and say you're going to be one of the greatest players of all time and they're not considered crazy, you have pressure. It's going to be a thing. I agree. 7. 10 well not 10 I lied yeah I'll probably go five or six because even if he has like a sophomore slump which is pretty normal no he can't he can't have a sophomore slump he can't he can't he can't not have a sophomore slump he can't really he can't wow so you sell I better not see I better not see a lot of 25% from the field games mm okay that can't happen they go so

calling him a false profit it's going to be crazy that's crazy I'm saying that's what that's what they're going to say. Yeah, he better be the Prince of Who's promised. I'll tell you that. Carl Anthony Towns. Oh, like a 9 out of 10. It's a New York. 9.5.

I would say 10, but he's not the best player so he can't have a 10 out of 10. But under New York media, with the reputation he has defensively, he better lock the fuck in. Are those radio hosts are you going to let him hear it? Mad Dog Russo is going to let him hear it. Mike Francesa is ready. I'm telling you right now. Outside, listen, they broke up a team that had the best vibes in the league coming into the, into the season.

And if they traded it all the way for Carathy Towns to upgrade at the center position, it is the first time in like 20 years that the Knicks actually have title hopes. And it rests on the shoulders of big purr and how he fits into the team. It's a lot of pressure. Tim's at his window. He's going to be under pressure. No, yeah. There's no such thing as disappearing. Like, there's no such thing as disappearing.

You can do that in Minnesota. Not too many eyes are there until Anthony Edwards popped on the scene. But in New York, brother, then junkies going to be on your back. Everybody going to be on your back. People at the bodega are going to be on your back. They're going to be talking about cat this, cat that. Cat, I need you to respond. Cat, I need you.

Big purr, we see you. J.J. Reddick. Probably, it's L.A., and he's a coach and the whole LeBron thing and Brondie thing. I will say, if you're a lick, I'll say. coach you you're like a lune tune's character there's like an anvil floating whoever head at all times waiting at the rope snip and drop on your fucking head there's always pressure yeah i'll say i'll say i'll say 10 too yeah because he piano's gonna fall on his forehead yeah the whole thing behind jj and how he presented himself and it always came across

like he knows that like what the what the smart thing to do he looks at the game from a from like an analytical perspective and also just he just knows ball if you come into the lakers and it looks like you don't know ball that's going to be a problem yeah okay anthony edwards it's about that time no it's about that time it's like what it's like a bro everybody has pressure to you eight what pressure does you have what is you have to do it's a it's a very pressure i i promise you we just got the season where oh everybody thought that the timber wolves were going to be bad now they're good out of nowhere so much aura i promise you i promise you if the wolves start slow everything that you like about Anthony Edwards people are going to start saying see he doesn't care

about the game too much he hasn't taken that mature he's not he's not doing this he's not doing that he needs to show up this year to stave off a lot of that criticism because these young stars they're waiting to tear him down yeah exactly these young stars are built up to be torn down when necessary first he's fun and spunky next thing you know he's immature not a leader like all that matters is if you win otherwise it's going to get flipped not i'll go eight especially with michael jordan comparisons in the air. I'm like nine actually. Those are just silly because he kind of looks like him.

Those, I don't, I don't buy much stock into those, bro. Those are nasty, nasty work. They'll say five. I'll say five. After having as much access and actually surpassing a level of expectations that people set on him this past season, he's going. Everything else is not necessarily cherry on the top, but like he's cool and he's on a cool trajectory.

When you have Luca and Che in the Western Conference with you, two other young stars who teams are going to be great. You have to match their pace. He has, he has pressure. Damien Lillard. He has the most pressure on him for show. He has the most pressure on more than Joellen Bede for show. You're telling me a team traded in everything they have.

They emptied their pockets, emptied their wallet, emptied their bankout to go ahead and give their guy, Yonisempo, one of the two best suitors for his play style. And you tell me, y'all don't work together. you tell me I just traded away a pivotal cornerstone piece in Jew Holiday and I just watched them win a championship nah I need I need a back I need everybody does not have a great season the Bucks next five years is ruined yannis is not going to be there forever if this team doesn't work because they'll have no way to reload the entire fate of the Bucks

fandom rests on his shoulders that's an immense amount of pressure everybody thinks Janice is this wholesome, you know, very loyal superstar who just loves to discover smoothies and stuff like that. Let me tell you, that man is a freaky mastermind. If Damien Lillard does not perform up to standards, Janus is out of there. He's asking for a trade next year. Do not be fooled by the Disney movie. He will leave. He's no better than the average man. Everybody's loyal until shit hits the fan. And then you got to ask, do I want to be Then you got to ask, do I want to play with Chris Milton and Bobby Portis is my second and third option?

Because Damien Lillard is washed. It's looking very 2014 Miami heatish. Oh, please don't say that. I'm sorry. It's what it's looking like? Straight to saying. At this point in time, this has to be one of your favorite segments of all time, Donovan. You love pressure so much, bro.

I bet you go to the mechanic shop. you look at your mechanic, how are you going to change my oil today? You know what type of car I have? How fast you going to do it? Make sure you don't get another single drop. My oil is bad? Make it worse. You want the clock right now.

Tires flat? Flatter. No grace. More flat. Look at Kobe commercial? Kowai Leonard. Zero. Oh, he's an early retirement, bro.

I don't care about Kauai anymore. Yeah, we're past the point where it's, if he retires, he retires. If he plays, he plays, whatever. It's not moving anyone's life, bro. If he plays... I wish the best for him, but the clippers no longer have championship hopes of any sorts, so it just doesn't matter. If he plays, then the clippers are a I decent team. If he doesn't play, the clippers are cooked.

Regardless, the clippers are cooked. It doesn't matter. You're correct. Tough. Tray Young His team just Made a horrific His team just

Wasted two years Of his NBA career And they're finally Getting back on the right path Setting him up to play Productive basketball For the first time in years He just has to go out there

And do his thing I say like three or four No repression You can't be more hated Than he is now And you The team has no chance Of being good

So It really doesn't matter What he does Like they're going to be Mid regardless And people have to be up their mind About him

They already overhate him at this point he can do whatever he wants he's just a villain at this point yeah for no reason it's not his fault but people made up their minds it is what it is uh last one jason tatum how much pressure is there for him to go back to back he's the first player in NBA history to win a championship and have even more pressure on your shoulders facts they hated him more they saw him do the thing they said he can never do and they're like well i want to see you do it twice now the goal is immediately moved that's so sad I didn't think it was impressive actually

I bet he can't do it three times When an MVP I dare you triple dog dare you He'll never lead a dynasty Fake demon fake demon Ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha he He has like it's almost 10 out of 10

But it really shouldn't be But like he constantly has to prove himself to the entire world It's so funny I don't remember a player who has this type of controversy, like Jason Tatum has been, not controversy, discourse that Jason Tatum has, bro. Yeah, they shoot him against controversy. Yeah.

He was a criminal. There's actual criminals in the NBA that I hated so much less than he does. You're so right. People care way more about miss stepback jumpers and they do crime. Exactly. All Jason Tatum does is send postcards to his son and win a championship. That's it. All he does is love Kobe.

And they're like, shut up, idiot. Sadly, he has no swag. So 10 out of 10 pressure. Show up. Exactly. You have way less of a leash if you're not fucking dope. 100%. 10 out of 10.

This takes you a long way. Where did your hezy, hezy, tween go, Jason? We need it back in the bag. Yo, rookie year, Jason Tatum, bag was crazy. Second year, Jason Stadom, bag was crazy. Why are you talking so light skin whenever you say? Crazy. It's taking me back.

It's taking me back. It's taking me back, man. Shit, you wouldn't even understand. Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. It wasn't doing it like. Yo, he wasn't playing fair, bro. Shit, oh, my God. Ew.

You see Jason Tatum? Okay, man, that's the end of that. Last thing we're going to do before we get out of here. We're going to do it. TD3 staple something we haven't done in quite a while running back a classic from year one in year three 20 questions

okay so you guys know what the game works I am going to think of an NBA player and you two have 20 questions combined between the two of you I said like I said like I'm from Baltimore two of you two between the two of you to guess who the NBA player

I'm thinking of is all right so starting now all right Moe, do you want to do the thing where I ask real questions, do you just take guesses? No, you don't plan it. Shut up. You don't tell us our game playing. Run it.

You don't vocalize it. Shut up. Run it, Donovan. Tell you ruin a bit. Shut up. Run it, Donovan. Let's go. Is this player a guard?

He is not. Patrick Williams. Not Patrick Williams. Is this a current player? Yes, this is a current player. Oh, current player. Denia of you. This is not been any idea.

Okay. Did they make the All-Star team last season? No, he did not. Okay. No All-Stars in sight. The way he said did not means like he is very far from it. Okay. Is he in the Western Conference?

It's not close to it. Yes, he's currently in the Western Conference. Did this player change teams from last season to this season? No, he did not. Same team. Same exact team. Now, will that be the case forever? I don't know.

is okay is this player older than 26 hell yeah he is did this player's team make the top six of the western conference standings last year uh i forget because i'm all in preview mode let me go see who the top six was okay top six top six top six top six of the western conference is like Dallas clippers yes they were top six

okay team was top six last year okay and he is old and he's not a guard. Okay, okay. Did this player's team make the second round of the playoffs? No, they did not. Ooh. Not a sick. Okay, that you just sized it down a lot.

Okay, so who got knocked out? The Pelicans. Is this PJ Tucker? This is PJ Tucker's all grumpy ass. Okay. You said, is he on the same team? I wanted to be like, yeah, but he doesn't want to be. I'll tell you that.

Yeah, yeah. You got it. There you go, Donovan. That was one of our fastest ones probably. Good shit. Yeah, 11 questions. You guys killed it. Okay.

See. You want to do one? Yeah, I got one. Okay. All right. Your question, start now. Is this Derek White? No.

Damn it, Isaac. What the hell? What happens? Why are you stealing our strategy? Let me be bold. Let me stand on something. Play your role! Is he a wing?

No. Okay, he's not a wing. Is he on the Celtics? No. Yeah, think about that. Oh. He did have to think about that. This is, is he current?

No. Oh shit. He was on the Celtics last year if it's not current right now. Who they cut? Wait, he's not a current player? No, they're old everybody back. Yeah, he's not a current player. They're not a current player.

So was he Celtic at one point? Yes. Is this Shaq? No. Why would you say Shaq? What are you thinking? Something's Shaq meme. You know what I'm thinking.

Wait, was he on the Southwigs last season? No. Okay, so a few years back. Is this player retired? Yes. Okay. Retired a few years ago. Did he make the finals with them in 2022?

No. Oh, shit. Okay, so who's in the, I'm just wasting questions. We'll see an all-star. No, to the all-stop. You're fumbling me. We're on question 11. Oh, my, man, to the All-Star?

Yes. He didn't count my question. You didn't even hear me. I know. What's your question? Your question is 12. Was he there in 2023? No.

Okay. Okay, so he's an old Celtic. He's an old Celtic. He's an old Celtic. Come on. Come on. We got to be obvious. You said he was never an All-Star?

No. That's, okay. Never an All-Star, old Celtic. Why does my brain go to Tristan Thompson? Is this, hold on, no, no. Is this the white Mamba? No. 13.

No, it's more recent than that. Is it? Was he there? Do you play there in the last seven seasons? I have to do math. Yes. Okay. He had to think about it last year.

So, like, that's, let me just take that out of my mind. Yeah. And you asked, I didn't write this down. Did you say he's a guard? I asked if he was a wing. He said, no. No, so he's not a wing. Is he a big man?

No. We are now on question 16. Last five questions. Is this Campbell Walker? This is Campbell Walker. No. Last few questions. Please lock in.

Please, please, please. Okay. So he's a guard who wasn't there the last three seasons, but he was there in the last seven seasons. Okay. Do you think it could be Isaiah Thomas? Do you think it could be Isaiah Thomas? No, because he wasn't there in the last seven seasons. Counting the one.

Is it Isaiah Thomas? No, three questions left. Why'd you ask? Damn it. Okay, here's a good one. Did he play with Isaiah Thomas? Yes, he did. Two questions.

Wait, wait, wait, wait. Okay, Isaac, it could be Avery Bradley. Could be Avery. We have two questions to get it down. Who are the other options? Did, did, uh, who else did you play with? Who else played with him?

There's, Henry, he could be Kyrie. Oh, he said no, he wasn't an all-star. Yeah. Jeff Teague was an all-star, so it can't be him.

Uh, no, Evan Turner was, never mind. There's two questions, man. Fuck it. Is it Avery Bradley? It is Avery Bradley.

There we go. There we go. There we go. Isaac, you almost sold me. Oh my goodness. Why did you almost, You almost give me a hard time.

Sometimes you got to be brave. You got to put yourself out there. I'm on the same board as you. You want to make me drown too. God. Shout to Avery Bradley. Shout out of your buddy. If you're still here at the end of the episode,

comment, shout out Avery Bradley, Lakers legend. On that note, if you're going to be in Boston next week, come see us at our live show. It's in the comments. It's free to show up to Boston City Hall Plaza. Yeah, man. We'll see you all next week.