The Deep 3 Podcast - Making Our Official NBA Conference Finals Predictions | TD3 Live

Episode Date: May 21, 2025

Breaking down this crazy week of NBA news #nba Support the stream: https://streamlabs.com/thedeep3pod Today we react to all the latest NBA news! Check out the TD3 merch: https://the-deep-3-shop.fourthwall.com/ Join the TD3 discord!: https://discord.gg/RUkjpMPp7E Listen on Spotify!: https://open.spotify.com/show/3elbbqVumwqz8wlIdknsLW Listen on Apple Podcasts!: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-deep-3-podcast/id1657940794 Follow us on TikTok!: https://www.tiktok.com/@thedeepthree Follow us on Instagram!: https://www.instagram.com/thedeep3podcast/ Isaac's twitter: https://twitter.com/byisaacg Muhamed's twitter: https://twitter.com/Mojo99_ Donnavan's twitter: https://twitter.com/Dsmoot3D Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Sad out to all my guys in Rucker Park. Casas is a fokey for that. Everybody who's with me out there in New York. Is he from there for real? No, he's from New Jersey. Opening up the stream with some nice cat quotes. There you go. Well, here we are.

We're back with another live stream on a Tuesday. The day, the NBA conference finals begin. As you guys see by the title, if you're watching the VOD, we're here to give you guys. our official conference finals predictions. If you're here watching it with us live, we're going to do the preview before the game starts in an hour and a half or so.

Should be a good one. We haven't talked since the last series ended, the OKC Thunderverse Nuggets Game 7 that happened after our last episode. So we'll talk about that, get into both series, do a little bit of silly stuff at the end. Should be a fun one.

It's going to be amazing. It's going to be cinema. It's going to be peak. It's a little bit of cinema. Not too much, though. Peak cinema. Peak cinema. Starting tomorrow with the real series.

We don't really care about. I'm fine in the West. I don't care about that. Spirit, the chat said, sub T3, please pick against the Knicks so we can win, thanks. Wait, is that a thing for us? No, we got every single series right in the last round.

But whenever they started off, like the Nuggets were up and, actually, no, we didn't get every series, right? I forgot the fucking Celtics and Kaz lost. Everybody got those wrong. But the next series, we got right. And, okay, see, ended up winning. Thank God.

Thank God. We were almost on fraud watch. almost all 3, 161 teams lost and one of them got out. We haven't. Let's start there. Let's talk. We're going to talk about that series

before we get into the conference finals. Game 7. Nuggets versus Thunder. Okay, so you won. What was y'all's takeaways? This is where boys become men. Nah. This is what it is.

It wasn't even like that. What was it like? It was like, I'm glad you did it because you're playing five on two. Like, Michael Porter Jr. has been hurt for the last three games. Aaron Gordon had a gray two hamstring strain. And shout out to him, though, for even going, for even playing,

got 11 rebounds, did the absolute best that he could. Again, shout out to him. But you have those two guys that are just out. You have nobody on the bench who can give you, like, real, real minutes. Shout out to Julian Strother for saving the series in game six. But you got into that series, or you got into that game seven. And yeah, it was close for a little bit. And then you saw the thunder do the thing that we were.

just waiting for them to do, saw them do it in game two, we just blow the Nuggets out and really take control of the series and the game. And they did it again in Game 7, where you get to the end of the second quarter and finally the Thunder start slapping the floor, pulling up their shorts. And Alex Caruso showed off why he is just a defensive demon. And the game blew open from there. Alex Kiel said, as a Nuggets fan, I have been weeping for days now. Please give me closure.

brother if you're looking for closer it's not happening go to sleep it's not happening whatsoever i think for me one of the biggest things that expose denver during this for this game seven of course is all the things as you said relying on julian strother fucking having um what's his name what pain watson yeah payton watson do try to do what he's been doing mpj he has one shoulder this team's depth of course is their biggest like achilles seal a few a mix with like a couple of other things as well, but in general, we saw this team's death be the reason why they lost towards the end

of the first quarter. Once, I think Yolkich went out, that's when the game was blown through the fucking windows, bro, and everything just fell to fucking pieces, and it was already over. Yeah, yeah, they went on a 13-0 run as soon as Yolkich came off the bench in the second quarter, got it head in front, and then they ran,

took it from there, kept running. As far as Colosia goes to Nuggets fans, I wouldn't feel too bad about this if I was a Nuggets fan. It sucks. You lose the game 7, two years in a row. You feel like everything is collapsing right. The windows close shut. You're never going to get close enough again to give you a chance to win because

the supporting cast sucks. Michael Porter Jr. is stealing $30 million a year, being worthless on the bench, yada, yada. I get that. You did take a 68 team win. Whoa. You did take a 68 win team to a game seven when you thought you were dead in the water because you fired your coach a week left in the season.

People thought you were going to lose in the first round and you beat, you almost beat the two best teams in the conference for the second half of the season. you were this close, I wouldn't feel terrible about it if I was a Nuggets fan. I think for them to get that far, I think it shows that even when it feels like their window is closed, which like you said, when they have three and a half good players, their window should be slammed the fuck shut. But just because the nature of how good Yokic is, how good Aaron Gord and Jamal Murray fit with him, you're always right there.

Even when the window shut, you're always just close enough that one good year you could always be back there. Well, this is, this also, you should have closure right now. Because everything that the Nuggets, at least in my eyes, everything that the Nuggets did this postseason was free money. If you fire your coach and your GM nine games before the playoffs, everybody was like, oh, you guys are, you guys are wild in. Like, this is just so instable.

You are going to elevate this interim head coach. Your team looks like it's falling apart. You guys are relying on Russell Westbrook for massive, massive minutes at this stage in his career. All of this just seems crazy. And the fact that they were in this position is cool. If you're a Nuggets fan, whatever title window that you thought, or whatever error that you thought that you were in, that's done.

You're going to have a new head coach. And even if it is, Adelman, this is going to be his first official, you know, offseason with the team, first year without the interim tag. You're going to have a new head coach, a new GM. And you now understand that all the people that you are bringing in, whether it be through the draft, whether it be through free agency, any trades that you make, this is going to be under a new regime. And so you still do have building blocks of your old era of that.

old championship team, but the days of having, you know, the best five-man lineup, the best four-man combination in the NBA. That's over, right? Most definitely. You have, you have Nicole Leokic, the best player in the NBA, and that is what you are going to build on until you are starting fresh. This is a new chapter, a new leaf, and understand that everything, everything that was is no longer. It is brand new. Okay, I wouldn't go that far, that deep to say it was no longer. I think they proved, like you said, I think they proved to be their window is still very much open in my mind because we're not going to see another team in the western conference or eastern conference play them as well as we saw

Denver due to okayc that's just what it is at this point in time now we'll say they will not what the the pieces that they had over the last few years back in 2023 24 and whatever when they're able to actually be legit contenders it's not going to look the same the best five man lineup i agree she was not going to look the same but their window is very much open i think if you if you were to tell any NBA fan two months ago when they fired their head coach that this team was going to go toe to toe with okay c in the second round game seven and that's it that's all the context needed it's fucking game we're all going to be fucking shocked yeah and obviously on the o kc thunder part they finished a series and we all thought they should have won right the fact that it went

to seven they trolled it should have ended a little bit earlier we talked a lot about how Mark Dagnol lost in game won, how Shea Gildes Alexander and Mark Dagnol, in part, lost him game, I think it was three when Shea had the worst playoff performance of his career and Mark Dagnold just said, go out there and Iso, Jamal Murray, every single play and they miss like 10 straight shots. This series should have been over a lot sooner, but like we said, the nuggets are good enough to push them. So, well, part of it is O'KC, has some growing pains. Part of it is Nicole Yolkid and Jamal Murray are just tough as hell. So I feel like if you were high on the thunder before and you expect them to

win the finals. We're going to talk about that in conference finals pretty soon. I leave the series filling equally as high as it was before for the most part. If you're Denver, what do you do going into this offseason? What's your plan to revamp, restructure, and get back towards the top of the NBA? That's my exact question. That's my exact question and also my exact point in that they only had three and a half guys that they could like realistically rely on. And even if Michael Porter Jr. was healthy, yes, the hiser are. very high. He also has a lot of moments where you're like, I have no idea what I'm going to get out of him today. And so not having, not having like consistency there, not having consistency

with your starting five. That takes a lot. You are going to have to completely redo the bench. Do you want to go through with the Russell Westberg experiment again and have, you know, this whole roller coaster? So you're going to have to get a new bench. You're going to have to get to more starters. You're asking this team to get at least four to five new. rotation players to be an actual title consider okay c can go 11 deep right obviously when it's like legit time to win a basketball game they're only going to go like seven or eight deep yeah but they have 11 to 12 guys who can play legitimate minutes not offensive but like but on any on any roster in in certain capacities yeah they have legit guys Denver does not have that they have to figure that

out yeah um we'll see there's plenty of time to talk about Denver in the future they have a lot stuff to figure out in terms of how they're going to do what you just talked about, replenish the roster. Pretty clear it starts and stops the MPJ for the most part. He'll be the catalyst to whatever moves they're going to make. But they love him, though. I don't think they do. I think Denver fans have had it up to here with him.

They are sick of his ass. They're tired of him, which is kind of unfair because he was injured. That's part of why he was so bad. But nevertheless, something has to change. It's going to be him. I agree with you. Even before this series, like people were talking about which guy in this room is going to be out. You can't do anything with AJ, AG, because he is the perfect.

It's partner in crime. And you can't do it. You also pretty much can't do anything with Jamal Murray because the highs are highs, the lows are lows. It is what it is when he shows up, which he just miraculously does every single time. MPJ, he sticks out like crazy because he feels like the only dude who is replaceable at this point in time. Yeah.

Shout out to Blah Morant for tipping $30. He said, hey, Donovan. I saw you at the airport. And it hit me like a full eight hours later that I messed up your name. I'm sorry, man. That's fucking me up. You're my favorite hater on the internet

What did he call you? He called me, Mo. I knew it. No, I appreciate it. You know what's funny that happens all the time in the comments. I know what's funny?

Nobody's ever confused my name. Obviously. No way in hell they called you Mo. You was looking at sexy that day? It's crazy, bro. Anyways, next series that we're talking about here. Let's get into this conference finals.

You know, we talked a lot about the Nuggets because we're going to have plenty time now to talk about the OKC Thunder in regards to how they're going to fare against the Minnesota Timberwolves. This series obviously starts tonight.

They have exactly one day of rest in between the end of game seven to the start of the conference finals. And then every single game from here has one day in between. It is a marathon for the Thunder. I guess that's the consequence of going seven games. They also just got fucked up a little bit by the scheduling. But they're going right back into it tonight. Obviously, goes out saying, I think the Okies of Thunder are going to win.

I feel about as confident as I did before. We'll talk a little bit about their offensive woes that came out. against the nuggets that we have to mention, you know, they obviously have those weaknesses that are worth talking about. So it's not a guarantee they win. But I feel good saying Thunder and Six or maybe Thunder and Seven if things go terribly again. But to me,

it's a not comfortable because the Timberwolves are really good. So it'll be tough. But I don't have a problem saying I think the Thunder should win the series without a ton of sweat. Man, I'll go ahead and stamp it right now. I think OKC is going to win in like five. That's possible. That's definitely possible.

I see this series. and I track back to all the other times at O'KC and the Minnesota Timber was faced off against each other and it's hard to see there's not we haven't seen each other at they haven't seen each other at full strength either it was before like the Julius Randall Ascension and him finding his new role on offense or Rudy Gober just literally wasn't there but one thing that remained constant throughout the entire

three, four games where they played each other is that their best player Denver Minnesota's best player Anthony Edwards continuously struggles against OKC so far in the I think three or four matchups that he's had he shot 50% from the field 27% 38% and then I think something else

atrocious as well that I forgot to write down he has a horrendous time going up against his team and you know what that's not a surprise at all because to me the only Achilles heel of this OKC defense which is obviously a legendary all-time great defense to probably the best the last 10, 15 years. What have you considered the modern era?

This is probably the peak defensive unit we've seen. We've talked about it all year. It's because of their array of perimeter defenders. We have Alex Caruso, Kaysen Wallace, J-dub, Dort. It's just your top fourth, and you're a Shea, who's a good defender, all these other guys, right? They go eight deep of good perimeter defenders. I find it very hard to believe that they're going to get dominated by a perimeter star. And Anthony Edwards, great, fantastic player.

We've been saying he's probably the sixth or seventh best player in the world now. He's really elevating. we feel good about his ability to impact a game even when the shot isn't falling and so forth I think this OKC team is probably the best built to defend him specifically of any team in the league they have the exact personnel needed

to stop a powerful slasher like that I don't know if I could say it would a 5 most because of OKC offense but for the same reasons I do not feel like this Timberwolves offense is as equipped to give their defense struggles as the Denver Nuggets offense was with Yokic I'm on the fence because

on one hand I look at OKC and I look at advantages as I think they should win in five right for all the reasons that you said for everything everything that they could do against aunt but jad of has shown us he's going to give you at least one stinker a series right even though that he has stepped up in some pretty big moments he has also had games where the three-point shot is not falling his offensive game is not working so i'm going to take that into account and then also Minnesota i mean you you do have to give them a little bit of credit and a little bit of respect to say there's there's going to be one of those games where they just flat out win and then whether or not they get the game that like

does o kc win it or does you know Minnesota loses whatever you know stupid thing you want to look at at whatever game i i think i'm landing on okay c and six agreed um and that's that's probably where it's it's going to go because again in this in this last series they should have they should have swept them but because of yokech's dominance and because of some and because of of some of the barriers that OKC put in front of themselves, it ended up going to seven. You can still see that happening. So I'll go,

I'll go OKC in six. Yeah, I agree. I think in the same way we talked about how you often see, whenever the Boston Celtics won last year, they won a lot of series in five, even when you thought they were clearly a better team and, like, on paper, could have swept them because the nature of their offense made it so,

you know, they go cold sometimes and they end up losing a game whenever the other team is just playing on top of themselves, not top of themselves, on top of their game and the Celtics, you know, live or die by the three things goes cold and they lose one. I feel like it's the inverse here for the thunder. Their offense support cast is just so trashed outside of Shea.

There's no way they're ever going to win a series in four or five games outside of playing someone with the Grizzlies. Like it's not that they're originally going to have, eventually have some cold games like the Celtics were. Most of their games are going to be cold offensively and they're going to win with their legendary defense, like we said, that they're going to have some games where they go crazy like in game two and they blow you out.

But more often than not, their offense is going to be a struggle. it's the nature of having nine great defenders on your team. You can't have that many good offensive players. It's why Shay won the MVP, because we know that for him to carry this team to a top three offense, so much of that was him, you know, you give and take in that regard.

So they're going to have a lot of games that offense goes cold for the reasons you said. I think it's built into it. So I don't even think it's a surprise if J-Dub goes cold, if check gets locked up by Gobert and he's struggling, if all their role players who are iffy shooters go bricks from three and they lose a game they should win because of that.

That's baked into the recipe. That's why they're going to have a lot of, a long series and win with defense, I'd be shocked if they win in five for that reason. Yeah. And yeah, go ahead. The only reason why I low-key want to, like, I believe in OKC a lot,

and I want to go with OKC in five, only because Minnesota also had to play well either. Yeah. And, like, they played, they played, they just came off of a series where they won in five against a Golden State team whose defense was still, you know, challenging it in different ways.

But if you, you're going to take that golden state warriors defense and again turn it up a knot with what o kc can do and you're going to give that defense a little bit of offensive support behind it like that's that's the area where it gets really scary where if if like if that war's team had had step obviously it's not it's not a five game series i want i would have love to see what it looks like when now you actually have somebody who can score 20 points on their own and the thunder have that in shape. Yeah. What's even scarier for me is that I want of course I'd like to lean OKC in six games because I want like everyone else. I want a long ass series hard, hard fought and

all that. I just don't. I don't think it'll be hard fought content. I don't think it'll be a hard fought. So because of the other guys that Ant has to rely on. And the biggest guy who has the most pressure on him outside of Anthony Edwards, of course, Angelie's Randall, I guess, is Dante de Vincenzo, he hasn't had a great playoff series or really, really like, regular season at all until he came back from his injuries towards the second half of the year. And even then, that carry coming up, coming into the playoffs and throughout this entire playoff run, I think he's shooting 25% from three. That shit is not flying. And if he's going to continue to do that bullshit against OKC, the series is over in five. Same thing.

Like, another thing of same energy goes towards someone like Dana McDaniels, too. he hasn't been bad at all and he's actually played above his standards and expectations but he's a low volume three-point shooter giving you like one max to a game he cannot get away with with that level of play everyone has to like step up offensive because of the assault that will that will be witnessing every other night that anthony edwards will be receiving yeah and uh jim and jennel specifically is going to be a big swing factor because i'm almost certain they're going to start if they start the two big lineup which is a big question mark because obviously they had to run two bigs against Denver because Nicole Yokic, you put him for 48 minutes with just like Chet Hongren on him. He's going to abuse him. It's going to go pretty, right? So they kind of had to be attached to that two big lineup because of Yokic. If they go two bigs again, I'm pretty sure they're going to put Chet on Jada McDaniels and let him roam offer. Jamie McDaniels has got to make those threes for your point.

And also be comfortable attacking closeouts and being able to create off of that because he's going to be able to attack from point of advantage. If he can't do that because you have all these elite elite perimeter defenders swarming around him, that'll be, if he gets shut down, they'll have no chance. He has to be a guy that is one of those guys that gives you a role player game where they just take off and all of a sudden it's the Jada McDaniels game

he has 27 points and he wins you one. He has to do that a good two, maybe three times. Three times. If he has to do it three times, it's right. I'm exaggerate. I'm exaggerate. But a lot of wolves fans have a point to the fact that obviously

they have much better defensive personnel than the Denver Nuggets who, like we said, push this team to seven really made the, really stress tested the OKC offense at times. So people would say, Nicole Yokic, food.

go bear d ply we talk a lot about how there's no good perimeter defenders in the nuggets we got about five of them on this team so doesn't that mean they should lock the shit out of okayc i get that line of thinking to me that only matters if you think they're going to do a good job of stopping shay because i think what we saw from denver is they gimmick their way into like the best case scenario for defending okayc the way they did zone and we're able to use their size and get the best out of their strong defenders on shay and then use their length to do the zone coverage and leave all these okayc shooters open they shot like percent from three. You're not really going to get a better defensive environment than what the Nuggets got, even with the talent gap. You can't do much better than leaving shooters open and they can't

hit the shots. So I kind of feel like that's the worst case scenario we saw, even though the Denver defenders aren't great. So again, unless you think Jada McDaniels, Don't Stevensonzo, Anthony Edwards are going to slow down Shay himself, I don't really buy that they'll do a better job of shutting down the rest of the guys than Denver did. And but also, that's kind of the point. Like we've talked all year about how Shea has carried this offense. And even if those other guys do end up beating you, you're going to leave the series and say, well, we did what we could. I would much rather leave this series saying, hey, listen, Jalen Williams, shout out

to you, right? Casing Wallace, shout out to you. And instead, yeah, I'd rather have that situation instead of, oh my goodness, Shagio just Alexander just got announced the MVP trophy and just had his crowning series against us because we didn't want to go all out and we didn't want to specifically make him the focal point of our defense. I think that is the name of the game and you see it across series. Who are the least likely to beat you? Yeah.

And you're just going to have to live with that. And so if you're Minnesota, that's the game plan. and I or I would hope that that's the game plan and you'll just live with it Yeah but in this game like So again I said that a big swing factor is how much OkC is willing to go to one big lineups in this

Series can Chet hang with Rigober will be a big swing factor If Chet can hang with Gobert And not get dominated on the boards And have it be like a constant mismatch in that way Which sounds like it sounds like I'm joking Saying dominated by like Gobert But he's given people some fucking trouble

In the past like five months of basketball Gobert is skinny He's strong He's huge. He is strong. He's 7-2. He's strong. He's seen games this year

where he gave Chet some trouble in single big lineups. If Chet can give you enough defensive rebounding and not get beat up down there and you can go to one big lineups where he has to make you stretch the floor out. You can put another guard out there

whether it be Kason Wallace or Caruso and give five out spacing so your offense can really click. That's a big reason why their offense was kind of slowed down at times in those games they lost is because they had both Chet Holmgren and Hardinstein

kind of camped out in both Dunker spots, terrible spacing for Shea Isos. If you can avoid that and really survive and give them the best case offense for this OKC team, I don't see any way that the Timberwells can keep up unless OKC shoots fucking 15% from 3, which is in the cards,

but they have to make sure Gobert and Randall force O'KC into these big lineups and don't let them space them out offensively. And that's their path to winning is obviously the thing we always talk about with O'KC. You have to be bigger than them, you have to kill them on the boards because they're going to give up that natural size

on purpose, not going to kill you on the offense rebounds. You have to assert your dominance that way. And we've seen Gobert do it. He did it against the Lakers. So it's not out of their own possibility. But they didn't have a center. Yeah, exactly. You know, like, Chet, even if Chet does end up getting down,

he's better than what the Lakers will all bring. And so I promise you today, Rudy Gobert is not getting 27 and 22 in a game against the Thunder this series. No, he won't. But the Timberwolves will not win a small ball matchup against the Thunder. That's for certain. So they're going to need to go bear to give you the 10 points, 15 rebounds, and, like, really be a force down there.

That'll be the big swing for them if they have a chance. All eyes are on you, Julius Randall, because he has been the reason why these guys didn't necessarily have a real struggle against teams like the Golden State Warriors whenever Anthony Edwards struggled to find his shot. And I don't want to say seem passive, but just wasn't, wasn't gunning as it usually is, whether because the type of defense that was thrown in him like we've seen against the Golden State Warriors series or not. I think this is, he's another swing factor for me as well. And when we're talking about how they win the small ball matchups, if it's even possible for the Minnesota. Yeah, he was amazing in the last round. So like if he keeps that up, that could obviously change things.

If Julius Randall just has continues the best player in front of his career, simply off talent and shot making, they can make things closer than you would think. So certainly in the realm of possibility, I think Jadub and Chet is a pretty good infrastructure to defend Julius Randall. Jadub is pretty great against. defending bigger, stronger guys. You've seen that wing span Jadab has.

He's one of the more versatile defenders in the NBA. Now he's not Drummond Green, and Julius Randall just beat the shit out of Dramon Green. So clearly he's capable of winning a matchup that doesn't necessarily make the most sense for him on paper. But I'm not necessarily worried about that being the defining factor.

Another thing is what version of Ant playmaking are we're going to get? Because obviously, OKC is the best turnover forcing team in the NBA. It's why the legendary defense they are. We've seen the good this year where Aunt dices you up as a passer. we've also seen the bad in certain games and certainly in past years

where this team will give the ball and put it on the ground this is like not even a stress test this is like the worst case scenario you could possibly imagine for a team that has issues with protecting the ball if you do have an issue with that

and you're not playing up to snuff I guarantee OKC will take advantage yeah and I think if Minnesota wins if Minnesota wins the natural discourse that was going to come out of it is going to be the stuff that we were already talking about which is how high is in the league and what type of placement

If they win this series, I think it's going to be because he legitimately has taken another step and he will have like grown in whatever, you know, in six, seven games, whatever. Because the playmaking, yes, is going to have to have to be a thing. But also because OKC is so good at every position, because they have so, because the wing defenders are so good. Ant's decisiveness is going to have to be is going to have to be the key. until like we've talked over the last two series about how patient aunt has been you know letting letting um letting the game come to him and allowing these doubles and being able to play off off of that he's going to have to kill like because because you can't play a half court game

with okay c and let them go and just say that's the worst thing to do you know what i'm saying because it's the generational defense yeah and just like caruso would be like okay we're gonna walk the ball up get here in 12 seconds and then you're going to try it and make a move if aunt goes off, it's going to be because, one, he's getting the ball, half court, pushing it, attacking angles, getting points really, really quickly, and getting a lot of driving kick situations to make the other, the others, and have them, like, succeed in early offense. It's going to be that. And it's going to be also because of the thing that he has showed us this entire year,

which is I'm just going to be the best three-point shooter in the league and doing it off the dribble and put in that pressure because as good as as good as all these defenders are if I'm making shots then I'm making shots I feel like so yeah if they win it's probably like I that's I understand why you say that if they win it's because aunt goes crazy like that's that's that adage makes sense if your best player goes nuts they can just upset a team I feel like it's you're asking it's asking so much of him for that to be the swing factor and that's what I'm saying for him to dominate this team he asked to go up another level is okay so he's Michael Jordan so like he's just like one of the best guards of all time in a playoff run that's how

confident. That's how much we all think and how highly we all think of okay. Yeah. I do not think that highly of Anthony Edwards at this moment. So I think it's more about if they lose, it's because Jaden McDaniels, Nas Reed, Don Steve Inchenzo, Julius Randall and so forth, shot the shit out of the wall. Every time they collapse in the pain on ant drives, they beat them from three. I think that's a lot more of a realistic swing factor than Anthony Edwards literally becomes Michael Jordan. Yeah, I think that's the only way to do it. And obviously I think that it's, I'm not saying that's out of the realm of. possibility they have the ability to go ahead and shoot the shut out of the ball we've seen it

especially towards the end of the year and I've been my money on it against the one of the greatest perimeter defensive teams of all time no I'm not doing that shit absolutely not yeah so i got okay c in five yeah they they can shoot that well I find it hard to believe they're going to create that many shots consistently you know they did in the second half of the lakers series because the lakers defense was gas moving no bigs and it was an instant pain touch every time Anthony Edwards touches the ball, I feel like this will be the opposite. I feel like this would be a series where Ant really struggles to get into the pain consistently for the reasons we all expect for Alex Caruso, Cason Wallace, and so forth.

So it'll be a big pull-up three series for him over these switches, stuff like that. I don't really see the OKC Thunder having a big issue with getting in rotation constantly because of those premier touches. It'll be a lot of like difficult Julius Randall shot making, difficult pull-up threes for Ant. Obviously they had to lock him on defensively too and kill in transition. you have to really expose the lack of shot making from OKC make them miss a lot of threes that you take the other way and transition to score those type of things I think are how

OKC wins I mean how Timberwolves win not necessarily nobody to stay in front of aunt that would be baffling to me yeah and that's that's okay yeah if that wasn't wasn't clear that's exactly what I'm saying we're like he's going to have to he's going to have to show like and also the the fact that like over the off season that he was like yeah I'm just going to be one of the best off the dribble shooters

that leap in itself is really was taking him to like oh yeah this guy's you know top 10 top you know top top 11 that area into oh no it's he six is he five right if he is consistently shooting 40% on off the dribble threes and if he's able to do that against the best perimeter defense in the league yes we are going to do the same thing that we did 11 months ago and be like oh yeah this is michael jordan we're going to do that if this feat happens because i think and this was a common thing that i saw where everyone was the same if the if the thunder do end up getting past denver chip is theirs right because the it's whoever's in the west none of you guys are winning in the east i okay i i i i disagree i do think that if if minnesota does win this series i do think indiana and new york can both beat them in a series can or you're going to favor them can yeah can sure sure they can if you make the finals you can win no when when i when i when i say can it's not like yeah there's a mathematical possibility i'm saying like there is a like legitimately real possibility and I actually believe it and I think that in a series I right now I don't know who I would pick between Indiana and Minnesota yeah me neither because

if the pastos get past the Knicks for the same reasons they get caught past the cabs and we see another series of like insane offense at that point I'm scared picking against anybody over indiana because Indiana is playing at that level so I'm with you I think the timbrewles would beat the nicks gut feeling haven't thought about it at all so gut feeling but again if indiana wins for that specific style of basketball offensively, I'd probably pick Indiana over them. Yeah, so, yeah, I think OKC is the only one where the masses will believe that if they get past Denver,

that the chip is theirs. I do think, though, that Minnesota is susceptible to the other two teams out east. Who are the best defenders on the Timberwolves to slow down Shea? I saw a tweet where someone said, I think Christian Brown is a better defensive matchup for She than anybody the Timberwolves have.

And your first thought is, what? Christian Brown's cool, but the Timberwoods have a lot of great defenders then you think about it how do you slow down Shea you got to defend him with strength knock him off his blast not let him get to his driving angles something Christian Brown did a good job of

because they let you foul these days in the playoffs there's no defenders on the Timberwolves like that unless you want to say Anthony Edwards but you don't want him defending Shea every play not every play you're probably obviously you're going to use it in spurts you got to be able to get inside of Shea's mind and that's why I'm going with a family tree

you got Nicky Alexander Walker there who's right whatever okay there's that um someone said jalen clark locking him up yeah there's some during the regular season games there's a few non-significant spurts of jalen clark playing great defense on him i'm sure they bring that up but yeah exactly i'm not really hanging my hat on jalen clark being the shay stopper for a whole series i think we'll figure it out yeah i agree the jenlin clark thing is a very good answer because i saw on i think i think on twitter or something like that janel clark held shay during the regular season to just like 28% from the field on like 38

attempts per game which is a sizable number to really pay attention to but he hasn't touched the ground at all in the playoffs or had any really realistic like meaningful minutes so that's hard it's hard for me to envision something like that happened if that if that was to happen shay is torching the the timbrewoles and this is chris finch's like savior for fucking helping if that happens good god that series is over and we didn't mention jane McDaniels who's obviously a great defender he's not built to defend shay for the same reasons he's i don't think he's built to defend Luca. We saw last year they didn't really have him be the primary assignment because he's, I know, he's kind of skinny, not super strong, and I think you want to defend

Shay with strength. I think you'd rather put Jay McDaniels on J-dub and let him do some nail rotation and use his length to be a help defender, which he's amazing at. So not really, he's an amazing defender, but not the type that you're like, go stop Shay one-on-one. He doesn't have necessarily the strongest point-of-attack defender against those type of guys. So I don't know. That would be interesting. Maybe they do start with on him and on him and say you better try to switch on somebody else because we have other good defenders around you. But again, that'd be a lot to ask Ant

to have to deal with those perimeter defenders and then also defend Shea every play. I can't imagine that's their go-to look. It will be fun because this would be the second straight year that we get to the conference finals and they're like, Aunt, go lock up this other guy. And last year, he tried to guard Kyrie and that did not go well.

And in terms of just shifting this, getting two angles, right, getting to your spots, that's where the challenges between Kyrie and Shea can be very similar. Obviously, Kyrie and his dribble packages, it's different, right, than, then Shea. But Shea also is, like, he's smooth, but he's also herky jerky in a way where, like, I can see, I mean, he gives everybody issues, but I can see where specifically he would give Aunt some problems. Hell not, man. I'm telling him, go ahead and guard Lou Dorton that goddamn corner, but don't do shit.

conserve your energy He needs to conserve his energy He's going to be in a hell on the other end I understand that He probably is the best answer for Shea We cannot have Ant get an entire late game It's impossible Like we're going to have to hope

Don'ty Vincenzo can figure it out Maybe Jamie Daniel steps out of his role And goes to defend Shea Anything but Ant being the primary assignment is the answer If there was ever a game though Game 1 would be the one You're just coming off of this grueling Seven game series right

You guys, the Tim Wilson have been resting You obviously you're going to try and go out and win whatever game you go and you try and start the series up one oh and this like if that's if that's a card that you were thinking about like oh maybe we can save for like game four when we're down to one nah let's go get them when they're you know quote unquote at their most tired in the in the series coming off this this series let's see what aunt can do and let's see we can get something pretty early and listen if it doesn't work i have six games to not use it right i can i can complete i'll give me five minutes i don't even say you

Give me, give me, five days. I almost guarantee Chris Finch does not agree with that sentiments, but I know what you're saying. And listen, if they get up 12, I'm going to be like, hey, get me on the bench, Chris. I got some answers for you. Yeah, obviously, I think we're all leading OKC. I'm leaning OKC. I feel less confident in this than I did the Nuggets. I felt zero issue that the Nuggets would be able to beat the OKC Thunder.

Obviously, it was going to be close, but I thought it would be OKC and six ended up being seven. Tim Bowles have a better chance. to me than the Nuggets did, just because they're a more complete team. They have the better defense that can defend when their best players on the bench and so forth. So I'm still going to six games, but I'm very open to the possibility that Timberwolves prove us wrong. Like they haven't played well enough that it's not a pushover at all.

I think, yeah, I can see what you mean. I disagree when it comes to feeling like the Minnesota Timberwolves have a better chance at competing. Some of me because, like, Yolk is one of the greatest of all time and he's very favorable against those OKC bigs. I don't think Anthony Edwards has many favorable matches. against the Lou Dors, Alice Caruso, Shades, and whoever else,

Kays and Wallace, whoever's you want to throw into that conversation, I think this is a hell series. And for that, I just, I'm sticking to my guns, O KC, and five. I don't think it's crazy. It's not crazy.

The Minnesota Timberwolves cannot blow out the Thunder. They can win in seven or six or whatever. They can win in seven, probably. The OKC Thunder could certainly win in a very short series. Some certain matchup things break the other way. So I don't think you're crazy for saying five. I'm praying to Jules Randall. But last time we got to have,

up here and one of you said the Timberwolves were losing five it ended up being an absolute bloodbath the other way so I'm gonna hope I'm not gonna I'm not gonna I was Donovan man he was on one night day you already know damn JJ I don't doubt I'll go OECC in seven

seven yeah huh okay yeah I think I lean five more than I lean seven but yeah if it feels like this is feels like the most six game series of all time a respectable team that's just not the same level if okay see you if the Timber rules are going to make this interesting I agree

you domen like after all this rest they're going to have to come in and steal the fuck and blow o kc's back out this is the best time all right catch them lacking the best time i don't think they're going to be that lacking honestly they didn't it's not a back-to-back i think they'll be fine just in terms of like tiredness and like damper we just got over this game something and tumbles might be rusty timbles might be rusty and okay c has great momentum they came off a game where everything clicked they really figured some stuff out i can see a world or maybe they just carry that before forward and they blow them out at home i'm not the worried about the rest right now see this break for Minnesota as being a time for them where, listen, let's just get our minds

right. Our threes haven't been great. Our offense hasn't been consistent, right? Whatever little players only meaning that you have to have, you had it over the last couple of days. You come into game one, ready, prepared. Nobody believes in you. What are you prepared to do? And like, is, you know, and the wolves are able to go in there and get a dub. So I think, let's go Minnesota tonight okay scene seven okay wow I fucking hope they don't go down one oh again that'd be annoying all right chat time to talk about the Asian conference chat who is winning the New York Knicks or the Indiana Pacers this is a much more difficult conversation I've been thinking about this a lot I do not have an answer for you the title says we're making our predictions I really

don't have one I do not feel strong enough either way I feel similarly it's the same cop that I use about Denver versus the clippers in round one I was like I'll say Clippers and seven just know I'm When I say seven, that means I don't fucking know And I don't really feel confident either way So I guess I'll say Nixon seven If I got to pick one, I feel absolutely Zero confidence in that opinion I think if the Pacers play the same way

They did against the Cavs, they should win And if they do that, that means we're watching One of the best fucking offenses in the modern NBA Like they played at such a ridiculous level In these first two series that it's like, yeah If they can continue to do that, they'll fucking win But can they continue to do that? That was insane shot making Cat, they got to solve his knee

Ogen and Nobi, everybody your wrist your wrist is slit both of them all through all of them bro same thing from macao bridges that's the only reason that's only way i see something like that happening like the nix won in a way that i think is pretty sustainable they played nix basketball and they were able to win some battles as well as the celtics themselves in the foot things we talked about so i feel confident the nicks are who we thought they were in that regard the past the pastes are so unknown they've had the best offense in the playoffs the most efficient transition offense off of live rebounds if they make you miss they're taking off and running they're at like 136

offensive rating off live rebounds. They have like fucking seven guys with a 60% true shooting. It's truly been next level offensive shot making against good teams. And they haven't played amazing defenses. They're also not playing one right now. Against good team. Sure. The books are not.

You're right. But even though the Cavs are really good, their defense isn't insane. They're like eighth and offensive rating for the year. So they haven't played amazing defenses and they're running off the court. The Knicks also aren't an amazing defense. So if you tell me they're just going to carry that on and play. the same style possible but it's so hard to predict that they continue to such an insane degree how do you feel this is such a clash of styles they play such opposite brands of basketball

the new york nix are traditionally one of the slower teams in the league we all know how jen brunsson likes to pound the ball get to his spots car nancy town just gets the ball when he gets the ball there's nothing fast pace the complete opposite of the indiana pace yes and then i go ahead and look at Indiana and I'm like okay like you can really run down their fucking throats because they traditionally do like the Knicks struggle with all this type of running traditionally so I don't know I feel more in the mix but I feel I feel I feel in the mix in terms of who I don't I don't know who's going to win but I do feel better about the New York Knicks coming on on top so because like they're the healthiest team that they face that the Indiana pages I face I am not discreding

Indiana whatsoever. I see that they did what they did to Milwaukee, but I have to also understand too, like that team is so bullshit. And on top of that, too, they got the Cleveland, they match up with the Cleveland Cavaliers who just had the worst injury luck that you could imagine going into the postseason. And I just don't know if they have enough answer specifically for some like Carl Anthony Towns because I'm expecting a really good series from him because he traditionally gives Indiana fucking problems. I think he gave him like 35 or 40 earlier this year. He gives Miles Turner hell every time he faces up against it. They're going to give each other hell. And no one's annoying. This series, you look at two teams. The Pacers just beat

a 64 win team in the Cavs. Normally you'd say that and say, if you're good enough to beat the Cavs, I'm going to pick you in the next round two, clearly your next level. The Celtics just be a 61 win team in the Celtics defending champs. Normally you'd say if you can beat the Celtics, you can beat goddamn anybody. So both recency biases are there. Both teams play their style of play and beat a team that was better on paper. Like you said, clash of styles. You have plenty of reason to believe both could work against each other. They both have similar strengths and weaknesses with their stretch bigs that you can expose in certain ways. They're both going to try similar things of putting their wings on the stretch bigs and switching

it so you can't really get into your normal pick and roll. They both have big wings and big power forwards that can defend their point guards. So much works both sides. I don't know where to think Donovan. You've been very quiet. How do you feel? I mean, come on. It's the Nixon five. I'm like, what are we talking about? Now, and that, Nixon 5 really means Nixon 6, because this team will not make anything easy. They're going to have a game where they just give away

and it's going to be extremely frustrating. You guys are going to come on here and laugh at me, all that stuff. I understand how it goes. However, the Knicks are going to win this series for a couple of reasons. One, Jalen Brunson, yes, Tyreys Halliburton has been amazing. Understand. man, Tyrese Halliburn is the Chrysler and Jalen Brunson is the phantom.

Okay, when the real clutch player of the year shows up, you're going to know what it feels like. And I, in every situation, I just, I trust Jalen Brunson and his shot making at the end of games more than almost anybody in, in the NBA. And I think that if there's any, if there's any situation, I'm always going to lean that way. I also think that in this series, Brunson is going to have a much better opportunity to get to the free throw line. I think not only because of the way that he plays, but because of how aggressive Niece Smith, Nemhard, McConnell, how aggressive they like to play, it's going to be extremely physical. And so what you saw in round one against the pistons where you have Assar Thompson who's playing great defense, but he's also being physical and you saw him get into foul trouble a lot. Jalen Brunson, he's going to look very annoyed and he's going to be, you know, arguing with the ref.

He's going to welcome that and he's going to bait them into fouls. I think that this is going to be a very, very big series for him on the foul line. O.J. and Inobie did not have the best offensive series. He's the biggest swing factor in my mind. Yeah, against Boston. Whenever he had really, really good games, you saw the Nakes thrive. I think that for him, his matchup on Pascal's the outcome, he can guard Pascal. out. And I think that that's going to be one of the keys to the series.

Let the maverickens over their fight. And then, yeah. And then the real biggest thing, which has been one of the biggest swing factors throughout the entire season, Mikhail Bridges has come into his own, especially over the last series, offensively and defensively. The Knicks have found something and there are finally allowing him to run the offense and to allow him to get his game off whenever Brunson is not on the floor. And so if you're getting Mikhail Middies for, six, seven minutes a game where you can play that in-between game and his defense has gone up another level. That is where I think the Knicks are going to shine and that's why I think

that the Knicks are ultimately going to win this series. Do we feel confident that the Knicks defense is good now and that the addition of Mitchell Robinson with Kat together in these two big lineups that they're doing more in the playoffs and they did in the regular season, do we feel confident that's real and that's an extreme strength that will continue to translate and that they're just are a level of defensively than what we thought and they're going to continue to play that well. Absolutely. Or do we feel like the Pistons had pretty lacklesser offensive help and that they weren't a

particularly good offense and the Celtics had some of the worst shot making games they've ever had and the Tadam got heard, dink snowballed? Do we feel like they're a good defense or they had some good matchups and how the patients are coming in and give them an entirely different look than they've seen before in terms of quality of offense? I think, well, the first two games, if you stop those games with four minutes left in the fourth quarter, you would come out of both of those games and say, oh my goodness, the Celtics are just a terrible matchup for the Knicks, right? This is everything.

And they locked in. Right? And they've locked in. So I think you're going into the series. And even as great as Indiana has been playing, I still look at Boston and where they were coming into that series and be like, this is a tough matchup. And everybody on the floor presents matchup issues. So I don't necessarily think that Indiana provides something that is so different that it's harder than what the Celtics were given I think it's 100% disagree you think that playing the Pacers right now is harder

than playing the Celtics in game one yes because in those games the Celtics shot like sub 30% from three and we know like it's a there's two worlds of the Celtics if they're hidden their threes and they're boss for the guard but that's a different I know what you're saying the Pacers have way less variance

that for playing in seven games again ideally the Celtics would be harder to guard like that's why we said coming in that the Knicks had no chance of beating them. They didn't play to the idealistic standards for lack of shot making for a couple of Jason Tedham stinkers. KP is sick and playing absolutely terrible, so forth. We've talked about why the Celtics completely failed.

Their offense in practice was not nearly what it was in theory. The Pacers are a complete opposite of everything I just said. They're clicking 1,000 percent. Their style of play just simply has way less variance. Obviously, there's a speed, something that is the opposite of what the Knicks want to do that makes them uncomfortable. The Celtics play slow as well for the most part. So if their shots aren't falling, they're willing to play at your tempo.

The patients will not play your tempo no matter what. So to me, this is a much bigger stress test of that defense than the Celtics were in practice. I think, okay, so I think that Indiana, they are good enough to create fast break opportunities, but also because I do think that the Knicks are going to live at the line in this series, I think that a lot of that is going to be pushing off of May baskets. And so the Knicks are going to have a better opportunity to get back. rather than just playing a, like, completely wide open, you know, transition style of game. So I do think that in that regard, they are set up better than what,

then probably what you're giving them credit for. And I'm not trying to say they're set up poorly. I'm just saying the opponent is stronger, whether or not zero to do with how I feel about the Knicks, just looking at the opponent in a vacuum, the Cavs should be a harder. I mean, the Pacer should be a harder test. I feel that I also think though like this this team is going to and when I say this team like Indiana everything is going to start and stop obviously with Tyrus Halliburton and everything that he's been doing and listen they they needed a miraculous comeback there were there were games

in this past series where Cleveland could have taken the opportunity and two Indiana credit they did everything that that they had to do they took those opportunities and cleveland did not yeah this is definitely one of the series that it's hard to predict beforehand for everything we've been saying game one will tell us a lot just because we'll see how these teams choose to defend each other the presence of two stretch bigs and two lackluster defensive point guards is so interesting because they'll definitely put a wing on cat for the same reasons the Celtics did and they'll do that same thing where they're going to kind of eliminate pick and roll from the Knicks

offensive repertoire, which works to some regard, I think, right? You're more effective if you can do pick and pop. The Pacers, Halliburton and Miles Turner pick and pop is obviously deadly. You said you want OG on Pascal Seaccom because he's a mismatch as well, so you want to put your big, power forward-sized body

on him. If you can't put OG on Miles Turner, what are you going to do? Are you going to put Josh Hart on Miles Turner and try to do the same thing? Or if you're going to run the two big lineups, you've got to put one of your bigs on him, so probably cat, and you're probably going to invite them to do some pick and roll and hope that you can just out defend them there, that'll be a big swing factor because pretty hard to put a wing on Pascal and Miles Turner. And if they wanted to go

two bigs and try to brutalize the Pacers because the Pacers aren't a good rebounding team for similar reasons to the Thunder because they don't want to be a good offense rebounding team, they want to get back. I imagine Tibbs says, okay, we're going to take full advantage, Mitchell Robinson, eat on the offense rebounds. I struggle to imagine a world where they're going to go to defend them adequately with that look. Unless things break well. Obviously, maybe they just do a good job, like on paper they're gonna have to play into what the Pacers want

and just out-execute them they can't schematically eliminate the pick and pop while doing two bigs I think yeah I think you can't do that I don't think any team in the at least Eastern Conference have been able to do that

because they just they just know their role and they're on pace with every with every fucking they just know exactly what they're doing and every player knows their role in terms of how they get up

and down to how they choose their spots on the court i think the mitchell robinson part is the most interesting section of this conversation because there's so much variance that he can offer to this series he can either be an answer or just simply like get out get out ran and just be played off the floor because of how this how the nature of this team is and someone like mithal robinson too i don't how well this is a question how well equipped he is to you when it comes to like guarding this team i think he's fine i think we've seen i think we've seen Mitch over enough time to trust him in space and to trust it like the the hardest part about Mitch is not is honestly not guarding it's in space it's after you moved your feet

three to four times can you keep your hands up and can you stay vertical because there's been so many times where like that's where he gets in trouble is finishing the play right fouling somebody at the rim but in terms of staying in front of wings every like obviously he's not you know locked down defender but at 4a big he's he's solid right it's not wings up can it's a pick and pop miles turner that concerns me is can he if they're going to run the drop because they're running too big lineup because they want to beat you with size and slow things down that's pretty fair to want to do he has to either you're putting him or you're putting cat in the pick and roll I don't want to picket in the pick and roll with miles turner I don't want to have to make him make smart decisions

guarding haliburton and a stretch for you So it's going to be on Mitchell Robinson to play an effective drop or hedge and then not let Tyre's howlburne blow by you That's the part I'm I'm okay with that and I'm I'm okay with that and I'm okay with that Hey so were the calves with Jared Allen didn't go well Jerry and I can move a hell of a lot better than Mitchell Robinson Well listen Jerry Allen may listen maybe the lights are For Jed Allen but I I do think that being able to If you want to lean in to To getting all off

offensive rebounds, which is something that the Knicks did last year and basically built their entire identity off of, which is Brunton is going to score in isolation. And anytime he misses the ball, we're going to have five people or we're going to have four people there to get the offensive rebound and we're going to create second chances. I'm perfectly cool with that. And I'm okay with that tradeoff. Now, if we start going down to O, all right, tips, like we'll have to adjust. But you've seen this Knicks team, especially across this entire run, start to lean in a little bit more into that level of, like, physicality, offensive rebounds and started to get some of the mojo back from the team that everybody loved and adored last year and something that people

really felt was missing throughout the year. And as that has come back, you know, Josh Hart, once again, is going to fly off of the top rope and trying to get every rebound. If Mitch Robinson can get rebounds, if Kat can be there and provide offensive rebounds as well, I do think that that nullifies some of the speed from Indiana. Man, I don't feel good doubting either of these teams. I really do not feel good. against either of them like both teams are playing so well traditionally I lean towards the style of the Knicks beating in these types of things but I something in me just wants to pick the Pacers something in me is like do it sure fine patience and sevens and you need a chip on

your shoulder thank you but like something about it and the way we're watching tithy's Halliburton is dice up all these teams I really do feel like I do I do feel like the Knicks defense in some regard is Charmin and is a product of who they played rather than them really elevating. But you can really say the same thing about the Indiana. Agreed. I'm just what I was to say. But I do also feel like they beat a banged up Cavs team and maybe if they were healthy it wouldn't go that way. So maybe you could say Jalen Brunson will have his way. I have no fear of him getting his game off whatsoever against these defenders. So you can say the same thing for them. That's why I'm not, I don't feel confident enough to say the Pacers, but something in

me is just like the Pacers are going to get their game off and they're going to do the same thing they did and it's going to be just too much to handle. Sounds like this series is probably going to go to 7 and if it does I think I'm leaning towards the Nix I got Nix and 7. See again I traditionally would agree. I'm like okay you trust the late game executor. The Hallibirds executed so well

in late games. We all seen them stats like last week bro I know. He's going crazy too like everything I would normally doubt the patience for they're simply performing better at this time in these playoffs like they're playing so far ahead of what you'd expect you know with preconceived notions that it's just muddying up all the things you would think about these types

of teams these guys don't want it man they they don't they don't want it this isn't a great fucking series i know if this is if either team blows them out i'm gonna be so mad because this this is this was destined for seven this was destined for great moments great memes renewing an old rivalry makes and four i find that so hard to believe you believe that let's do that four get to fuck out of here let's do that uh let's do some quick before the end of the stream let's rank the top 10 players left in this playoffs you know where conference finals begin today there's four teams left I think to my count

there's about nine all stars plus shed Hongren who isn't an all star but you know you can consider one of the top guys so it's about 10 star level players across all four teams let's rank them all okay okay let's do it so exciting chat who do you guys have number one you guys are who I have I see the first comment I see ant man number one wrong obviously I disagree she'll just Alexander

the MVP which how the fuck has it not been announced yet whenever it does get announced the MVP he should be number one still right conspiracy i'm noticing they're not they're not mentioning it yet i agree to she's easily number one that's i think that's the easiest part of this conversation now that yokech is at home chilling on his couch yep yeah nobody even ant man nobody left in this playoffs demands as much attention by a defense than shea like he truly is like a defense bending score you simply are not allowed to defend him one-on-one because he will kill you with how good their defenses if he can get his MVP level production off you don't send a chance so teams are

going to double team the shit out of him the gravity of him as a driver is just way more intense than any other stars we have left in the playoffs and you have to and you have to foul him like you have to be overly physical in order to get him off of his spots and if they if they do start to call it tight now you're just letting him get to the line 12 13 times a game and you look up and he's going to have 35 someone said the shay epidemic needs to be stopped that's the other part I love is that people really hate that he's the best player left people like I don't know know why. I do know why because all the fallabating discourse on Twitter that went crazy, but people are really preying as downfall, and it makes you so happy to know that you're not going

to win. Yeah. It seems like you all just glazing shade. We're just saying like the most basic bare level facts. I guess the real conversation comes in at number two. Who is the second best player left in this series, on the playoffs? And here we have discourse because there's three guards left. Anthony Edwards, Jaylon Brunson, Tyreus Halliburton. I think consensus would say Anthony Edwards, right? That would be the consensus answer. It's probably where we're Everybody was saying. Ant man, probably is consensus also.

There is an argument for Jalen Brunson. In the regular season, we ranked him at like 10 and like nine. They're similar caliber players, I think. We've seen upper levels from both of them that completely take over games for different reasons. Jalen Brunson is the best score of this three guard tier. Ant's the best all-around player. Halliburn's the best offensive player overall, I think. Tavis can excuse himself from this conversation.

We all know. Okay. Fair enough. Then it's two players. It's the better one-on-one score, leg-executor. or the guy that's a better off-ball player, three-point shooter, has a higher defensive ceiling,

but isn't quite as reliable as a go-to guy late games. Yeah. And that's why you pick Brinson. I think four and... Brunson's been better these playoffs. Really?

I don't know. This one's tough. Aunt has been very impactful even when his scoring isn't there. That's the difference. Ant has a huge floor as a player overall, even when the lay...

He can't make a layup like he did against Golden State. He turns it up in the second half. He plays good defense, makes threes. I don't know how to parse that. Yeah, that's actually You bring up a good point

When he's not going When he's not getting the bucket going Like he's still affecting the game In so many different ways Whether it be his playmaking His defense Fucking rebounding whatever it is And Jim Brunson's just so like

One dimensional But the dimension he's good at He's arguably the best at The entire NBA And it's a pretty fucking important dimension It's probably the most important dimension In the playoffs Yeah exactly so

But Anne isn't bad at that Ant isn't like We're not talking about Halliburton Where you don't feel good to him getting an iso bucket. This is Anthony Edwards. He's also a mismatched. Yes, but you guys asked, or you guys said,

is, even when Ant's game, even when he's not getting his game off, right, he can still, he can still affect the game, and he's done that plenty of times this postseason. Why hasn't he gotten his game? There's been so many opportunities where he hasn't gotten his game off, and you haven't, he haven't seen that from J-Lo-1 because, yes, I do, I do agree with you the,

the ancillary skills. I mean, good word. Yeah, whatever. tertiary skills. Yeah. Those skills for a are better. But Jalen comes into every game, even with all of the options that they have, even with Carr and the towns, even with McHale Bridges on in, you know, whatever night, Ogen, Nobie.

The Knicks offense is still Jalen Brunson, go get a bucket. And we've, and we've talked about it so many times how their late game offense is hardly an offense. It's hardly plays. it is Jalen Brunson you get the ball at the top of the key we're going to give you one screen after that you are on your own you have to go make magic and time after time after time he has made magic and so I I do think that in these playoffs

Jalen Brunson has been better Moe I have one question are we bitch made do we want to hedge because I think we both agree Anthony Edwards is better but he's about to play the OKC Thunder and it probably won't age well if we put Ant two do we want to hedge you go against Brunson who is playing a much softer defense That's a great call out right there.

Are we pussy or are we going to pick Anthony Edwards because we think he's better? How do you want to be remembered? How do you want to be remembered? Are you a mouse or a man? I want to be remembered as a guy that just says Ant's better regardless. But I am almost certain that Jaylon Brunson will have a more productive conference finals than Ante will simply because of who he's facing. Exactly. But should we let that conversation of who he's facing sway us so we deep down know the truth, what the truth might be?

Nope, fuck it. Anthony Edwards number two, Jaylon Brunson number three. I agree. Sorry. again we think we think brunson will produce better that doesn't got shit to do with either of them but i do think brunson has a good argument i don't think it's crazy with him number two i think they're very close i agree but aunt man aunt and the ceiling of aunt when he's clicking is ridiculous we know what it is it's been having 40 points in a close-out game crossed over one of the best perimeter

defenders in the league to where he wasn't in the frame we were talking in our preview 30 minutes ago that anthony edwards might be the best defensive matchup for shay gildes alexander on a team that is a top-ton defense. The defensive impact is night and fucking day. If Brunson's not getting a bucket, what is he doing? And it's been passing well, too, so the playmaker gap is... I guess we'll never know. Because he just gets buckets.

He doesn't know about it. He gets buckets every night. No, I don't want to hear that. No, but you're right. So Brunson's clearly number three, Halliburton number four, right? Is there an argument for the way Halliburton is currently playing that you could say Halliburton's number three? No.

Obviously, he doesn't think so. Do you want to entertain it? Yeah, no, I'm not entertaining. it whatsoever. Okay, but Halliburton like he's four, we put him to the side of this conversation. Just no, the tier is he's hooping though. Yeah, the tier is not big. Like he is in currently in the same tier. It's just

somebody has to draw the short straw, but the way Halliburton's playing, he's blowing all of our expectations as a late game score. He literally hit a game winning shot. Who would have thought that's going to be a final moment for Tyrese Halliburton a half court game winner attacking the rim? He did that. Obviously the playmaking's next level. He's shooting up and down, but when

it's up, the team is goddamn unstoppable. number four but it doesn't feel good the improvements that he's made this year we were at the end of last at the end of last year even after the nick series after they won and especially after they played the celtics we were all saying this guy has no bag and that is a legit problem that he can't he can't go and get a bucket whenever whenever you need to he can't get downhill he can't get to his spots after you know making one move and here he goes a year removed like you said hitting all hitting game winners being a late game

offensive engine shout out to you shout out to Bagwood someone says that's insane they're still they're still underrating Hallie I don't know how you heard any of those words I said

in the order I said them and said these guys don't like Tyre's Halliburton brother we could look up at the end of the next year and have this list and be like wow bro like Hallie is legitimately

like the third best player maybe hell second best player out of the fucking group he's that good like so much swing Daniel Garcia said answer number one but Isaac wants his boy crush

to look good so I had to do so much projecting to hope the MVP plays good I'm clearly playing favorites to the MVP I decided the MVP myself I saw yeah gigantic gap between four and five now we got the superstars out the way number five it's between a lot of big men now I think we have Kat, Gobert, Randall, Seacum

as kind of like the four guys who are and J-Dub made the all-star team so five all-stars left I don't think J-Dub's in that tier though so which big gets the number five spot I think naturally the most consistent, big out of them all, out of them all is past Gausiacom. Julius Randall has him playing. That's what I was going. I was going with Julius. And I don't know if that is more just product of expectation.

Yeah. Is that? But he has, he has been hooping and he has been showing up into pretty big spots. And so I would like to give him that. But also, the paces are on this crazy run. And it's not just because Halliburton is, you know, playing on this crazy level. It also is because Pascal Seaccom is doing, you know, Pascal Seacom stuff. I don't want to be that guy because you know what I'm going to say.

Are we not considering Rudy Gobert? Oh, my God. Like you guys are, they are to lead defense because at Gobert's playing very well. He did dominate the Lakers. Bro, shut. Oh, damn. I don't think it's crazy. I think it's worth the conversation.

I don't think it's nuts. I think I would certainly put him in the same tier of importance as Julius Randall. He deserves to be in the same tier. Absolutely. But I don't think we're named. dropping him just yet not just yet yeah I get it

I mean Randall did have an insane series against the Warriors so I can't if there's ever a time to say Julie's Randall's better than Gobert it is this week right now

this is the time to say it so it's not insane or anything but I mean I don't think any of us have ever said we'd rather have Randall than Gobert outside of the past week

outside of the past week no one even thought that Randall would be a part of this goddamn list does that mean we split the difference to go see Akum or do we applaud

Randall for the crazy series had against the Warriors and given the spot for now? I will say, though, we do have to give a Gobert credit. Gobert and his defense is, is legit. And yes, Randall has stepped up and he's proven everything that we've wanted him to prove. However, if Julius Randall wasn't there, they, and I don't, this sucks because I really don't want to play the hypothetical game here, but I am. That's a bad hypothetical. I don't you're getting at.

I know, I know. That's a bad hypothetical. I know, but, I mean, Gobert's, Gobert would, would be there. Gobert and his offense hasn't been, it hasn't been absolutely horrendous. Gobert's like the main, actually, I don't know if I say main. Gobert is one of the main reasons they beat the Lakers. Like, he was dominant and he shut down their offense. Like, go in the same way that Randall dominated round two, Gobert dominated round one.

People will not take it seriously if we put Rudy Gober at five. Fuck them. Like, they're just going to be like, ah, these motherfuckersers. again me personally I think why gobert's playing great why are we act like go bears get exposed and people should be like down on him go bears play completely fine because it's fun to do that that's why

but not to the point I'm going to be like I'm so embarrassed for saying go bears good and I was not that time there's been rough stretches in the past this week is not motherfucking one of them gobert has been completely good let's not do it I agree he still he still has been better than siacum or randle I don't know what that

we'll do this let's go see akam afire yeah see acum at five is fine that's fair No one's going to disrespect Pascal Siakum. He's consistently one of the most underrated players that the league has to offer for all the things that he is on the court. Sorry, I'm reading the chat. I'm reading somebody. Okay, so we have Seyakum at 5, and now we're going to parse again between Randall and Gobert.

Sounds like I'm all voted either way. So it sounds like I'm going to be Randall. Let's go Randall. Let's go Randall at 6. Okay. Okay, put Randall at 6. Cool. I'll be seven, Gobert.

I'll die on Gobert Island alone. I understand. Seven is Gobert Perfect I think that's easy Perfect 8 9 10 Oh wait you guys are kind of dumb

Who we skip out on Carl Auntie Towns Yeah no I'm taking Rudy over Cat Oh I'm taking Rudy over Kat So you're taking Julius Randall

Over Gobert But not Kat Yeah because Julius Randall's game Is the most complete Out of all those players He How much Okay

Whether it be the defense Him facilitating Him shooting pretty well From 3 I think he should like 35% as well limiting the turnovers I'm taking

Okay in this present moment That's not crazy The way Juli Town was playing It's not crazy I just I don't It's crazy to say I know

I was I didn't come up today thinking I was gonna say this But I did Okay So we're going to regal bear Of a cat Are you putting cat

At 8? This is such a hard Or do J-Dub or Chet Into the conversation Maybe only because The

The inconsistency from from cat from game to game he wants on inconsistency and that's what jadob gets into the conversation because it's like you both have had stinkers and you both have had some really really high moments I think I will go

I think I'll go Jdub over cat in this moment because even because even when jadub can't score his defense has still been there and it's facilitating is still at all it's like an all time higher right now too and we're gritty and we're gritty

And we're grading Kat's defense, which has been solid, but it is grading it on a curve. So, so, yeah, I'll go J-dub, then Kat, and then Chet. J-Dub, then Kat, and then Chet. And I'm taking, and then, yeah, go better with you. J-Dub's offense has been, his shot making has been really fucking bad, and it's like, it's a big deal. You know, Kat, obviously, you guys know I'm not the biggest cat guy, but I don't think Kat has been so down on one end as J-D-W is offensively. And I do think J-D-U's defense is probably been better than Kat's offense.

but the inverse there. Like somehow Katz been defending better than J-D up has been scoring. I mean, J-Dohs had two spiked games

but those bad games are bad. So we've had so Kat he's had he had 14 this is in the Boston series Cat's been playing better

than Jado 14, we don't have to put Jada and that's kind of crazy 23 19-21 but the shooting percentage it's like 6 to 13 5 of 18 8 18

what you're trying to do is you're trying to force you're trying to force a no help gimmick and you're trying to make it seem like that brother says that's not help to you.

Cat has been playing better than Jada. We don't got to hear this anymore. So you just called it out. You figured them out. Gotcha right there. Damn. Yeah, fuck, let's boost up, Kat. Yeah, Kat's at eight.

Cat could be seven over Goberra if you wanted to. I think Kat could be over Randall if you wanted to. Understand. Either way that you guys vote, I have a gimmick. Because either you downgrade Kat and I say, oh, Jena has no help. Or you guys boost up Kat and I say, they have two of the best players and y'all still down it. Either way, I'm getting something off.

No, Cat, Cat has certainly been playing better than J-Dob. Okay. Kat's at 8. So the question is 9 and 10. Is J-Dub and Chet, or do you want to introduce somebody else in the conversation? No one else to. You don't want to introduce any other role players in the conversation? Shout to Andrew Nemhard.

Love the game. I mean, N-Hart too. Caruso. Caruso is up there. I feel fine going 9, Chet, 10, J-Dub. J-Dob's offense has been a problem. Hey, man, listen. Chech's been super consistent.

I'm fine with putting Chet ahead of him. I'm perfectly fine. with that. Caruso's last three games have moved me. And not not even only last three games, but this entire. You want to put McHale on this list at all? He just doesn't mention. He does, but not for top 10.

I still think having somebody, if McHale was playing defense, that was like 85% of what Caruso's been doing. Oh, yeah. And even there, I mean, well, listen, Michael's had some, he's had some moments. But, I mean, Caruso's just on a different level. Okay. So we're looking at Shay. 1, Ant 2, Brunson 3, Halliburton 4, Randall 5, Seyakum 5, Randall 6, Gobert 7, Cat 8, 9, Chet, 10, J-dub?

I feel good about that, Liz. Sure. That's a great top 10 if you ask me. In turn to who still, yeah. Look at that. My MVP, my future finals MVP. It doesn't have a top 9 player left in the playoffs to help him. No supporting cast.

This is where we get off narratives. He was lying the entire time. his case for O K.C. So he can take his big ass and raw. No, so much. Just defense and power of friendship. Yeah, I hope Minnesota wins this. I do.

And with that being said, that's our top 10 players. Only debate, I think, that middle tier of Biggs is a debate. Cat is the big swing. We put them at 8. You can put up the 5 if you want to. If you want to say Katz better than Siakum, go for it. I don't think he's been performing to that level, but it's not crazy. That 5 through 8 is the only real debatable part.

I think top 4 and bottom 2 are set. I feel good about this. All right, cool. I feel good. And with that being said, that's the end of the stream. Nixin 4. Doubt. We'll see y'all.

This Friday for the next episode, reacting to the first few games of the finals, should be a fun one.