The Deep 3 Podcast - Ranking The Top 30 Power Forwards In The NBA | Ep. 234

Episode Date: August 6, 2026

NBA power forward rankings of 2026! #nba   Check out the TD3 merch: https://the-deep-3-shop.fourthwall.com/   Listen on Spotify!: https://open.spotify.com/show/3elbbqVumwqz8wlIdknsLW   Listen on Apple Podcasts!: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-deep-3-podcast/id1657940794   Follow us on TikTok!: https://www.tiktok.com/@thedeepthree   Follow us on Instagram!: https://www.instagram.com/thedeep3podcast/   Isaac's twitter: https://twitter.com/byisaacg   Mo's twitter: https://twitter.com/Mojo99_   Donnavan's twitter: https://twitter.com/Dsmoot3D   0:00- Intro 2:45- top 30 NBA Power Forwards 2:03:29- producer corner 2:08:44- tiktok time Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

30 power forwards. Three individuals. One billion hot dogs. That's on the line today. One billion hot dogs? Yeah. What a sentence? What's what the fuck?

We're buying them in bulk. Costco got us. Okay. What are we doing with these hot dogs? Don't worry about that. Oh, God. Self camera. Actually, that sounds crazy.

We might have to worry about that, actually. Well, as you got to see by the title, we're here today for week four of 2026 ranking season. What's the biggest pack? I feel like at a certain point, even if it's not like, you know how like you go to Costco and there's certain items. So it's like, okay, it's only two items that you can get of this. Like you only get like two cards of eggs or whatever because it's a shortage. Even if they don't have that, that limitation, I do feel like if they see you put like 10 packs

of hot dogs, it's like, all right. They can arrest you. This ain't even a party that needs all that. What are you doing with this? It'll kick you out. What are you doing with these Franks? Surprisingly, Franks are not a topic of today's conversation. We're here today to rank the top 30 power forwards in the NBA,

as you guys have seen for the last three weeks. We've gone through point guards, shooting guards, and last week, small forwards. Today we're at the Power Force list. Solid list, I think. I think I got through about 25 names that are really good, had to put some stinkers at the end, but the top 15 of this list specifically,

I think should be very interesting. 25. I think I got to like 17 that I feel really good about. And then after that, I was like, ugh, do I really want to sit down and debate about this for 40 minutes in my head? And I did. That was not fine. Yeah, I think it's mostly the top.

It's a very strong position at the top. As you guys know, if you saw small forwards, we did put LeBron James, Kevin Durant, those type of guys on the small forward list because we said those are the most famous small forwards of all time. They're going to remain in our small forward list until they retire, even though I guess they play power forward today, wherever the LeBron signs. There's another thing I should point. We're recording this on Thursday, July 23rd.

If LeBron James has already signed by the time this has come out, we will be traveling on vacation, and we have not had talked about it. So if you're here, because he was signed three days ago, for all I know, we're not going to talk about it because this is recorded in the past. Anything we talk about has to do with those teams

will not apply to today's rankings. Okay. Listen, there, I just want these glitzies. Let's do it. One billion of them, too. We're throwing it back. Whoa. That's crazy.

He was bragging. I'll eat it. The cranium is crazy. Oh my God. Crown eaters rejoice. So you guys know how this works. We're going to reveal all of our list in blocks of five going tier by tier until we see all three of our opinions of the top 30 power forwards in the NBA. Where are we starting?

First off, Donovan. At 30, we have comminga, 29. Cal Cusma, 28, Tristan de Silver, 27 Jeremy Grant, and 26, Santee Aldama. Ooh, I did forget Jonathan Camiga exists. Did not put him on my list. What? What? I completely forgot about him.

You've been twerking for him for the last three weeks. Thomas and Camiga, this, Camiga, that, Kamiga, defense, commigua, you forgot about him? I can't believe you said I was twerking for a kaminga. You were twerking. You got to have been. I don't give a fuck if they signed him, by the way. I don't really care if they saw him about him.

Which kind of makes the twirking a little bit more, more shameful. Yeah, I know. I kind of like don't want him. I'm just like settling. I don't care if this. You've been actively busting it down. That's funny. Which again I mentioned.

This is, we're recording this on July 23rd. Camiga might be a Laker about time you're hearing this. Or he might not be. He might still be a free agent. We don't know. It might be a cab. I'll be perfectly okay if he's a calf.

I'm not worried for Kamika. But to your point, while Kaminga has been flawed, we've talked about him for the past three years as being disappointing and, you know, fizzling out of the Golden State era when he's supposed to be the next score to help Steph Curry and his transition to his older years.

he is still a solid player. I mean, number 30 is still fair, right? He still deserves to be top 30 with the presumption there being. He's like the lowest level of starting caliber power forward. I think that is fair. And if he is a Laker,

I do think playing on a team that has lead playmakers where he can focus on being a play finisher, running in transition, using his slashing as a secondary form of offense, hopefully use not athleticism and his good rebounding abilities to translate to good defensive value

next to those athletic, I mean, non-athletic ball handlers. I do still think he had. has some value and could be around 30. In fact, I think he's probably better than Kyle Kuzma. Maybe. I think like both of them have two week stretches where they could be like, were they, you watch them playing this.

Like, okay, we actually can build something here, but both of them are right on that line where if they are, you're starting four. It's like, all right, we, we're getting creative with our team building. And we're taking flyers. We're taking opportunities with these guys there. And I think that for for comminga, his highs are probably higher than Kuzma's at this point. I just think the two places that he's been, whether it be in Golden State or in Atlanta,

the idea that like, you know, these teams really do need what you do. The idea, these teams need the idea of what you do well. And you just have not been able to do that consistently. And so I think with Kaminga, a lot of it also is just maybe mindset, maybe attitude and his ability to adjust to a role. Whatever you want to say about Kuzma and his ability to execute in that role, I know that he's more willing to be locked into and accept any role that he's given. So that's whatever difference that it is between 29 and 30. Okay. Yeah.

Unfortunately for Kuzma, his lows are much lower than Kaminga's too, I think, which is crazy to say. I think Kaminga has, um, Last year, he didn't shoot well at the rim. He shot 60%, which is really strange because for four straight years of his career, he shot over 70. So for four years of start his career, he was an elite room finisher.

And we could always give him that, right? That he was going to crash the boards and be an elite slasher. Last year, he was a bad slasher, which is weird. I think we can give him the pass and say it's for team environment. We do it with shooters all the time, too. Yeah, like, it's weird.

It's weird for your rim finishing to fall off by 10% in a year, which you're clearly still at your most athletic and you're not injured and stuff like that. So weird, I feel like it's probably a blip. And like we said, if he's on the Lakers or maybe even the Cavs, I guess, if that ends up being the case. And he's with good ball handlers that can set him up, playing in a good offense with some flow to it. I think he'll get back to at least giving you for the power four position, like high level slashing and rebounding.

I don't know if there's shit Kyle Kuzma does at an elite level anymore. He tweets at a terrible level. Exactly. He'd be on the internet. He's a volume shooter. He is. Yeah, exactly. So I can understand how he dressed together.

Who? Camiga? Coos than Camminga dresses better. What's Camiga's dressing bag? Like, I've never seen his outfits. Uh, it's pretty deep, actually. Like, really calm. Really? He's like that. Yeah. Honestly. Kuzno, obviously is a try hard when it comes to dressing. Yeah, I think Kuzma, he like throws Hail Marys every time. Yeah. Yeah, he's much more

experimental, but like, do we give him any type of credit for that? Oh, Kamiga does have a bag? Yeah. Okay, some shit I would wear. Yeah. Okay, shout out Kaminga. Camilla. He's like, he's like that. He's like that. Oh, he's definitely like that. Oh, I don't know about this one. What is this? that's probably young coming it's fine I'm going to pass yeah

everybody everybody has hit to missus I'm trying to find something for Kuzma that like in terms of he does this very very well

I will give him the fashion the fact that he does you know try very very hard at that so yeah you know that's in his back

yeah you know the difference is not to get bogged down the 29 and 30 conversation but these are two I guess somewhat known players that are interesting talk about

I don't think there's any team in the league that Kyle Kuzman will elevate as a starting power forward I think maybe there's a world where he gets to a team environment that's not as downtrodden as slasher's bucks and he could be a solid bench piece or maybe a maybe average starter and i do think because commingo while being extremely flawed and

maybe doesn't have the mental makeup to want to buy into a small role there's still that world where you can refine his couple really strong skill sets i won't say elite skill sets but very strong skill sets and with the right team like i said i think it could be on a luca dantsish team or on a team with a stretch five or whatever you can imagine as the perfect environment for that type of slashing i think there's a world where he can be weaponized. Kuzma, I've lost hope. Yeah, I 110% agree. What's the next one on the list?

Sontail Dama is on here. That's an interesting thing, I like him a lot. I like him, too. I put him on my list as well. Me too. Next. Ah, it's me perfect. I agree with you. I think Kaminga is better than Kuzma, but just by barely. So at 30, I have Kuzma, 29,

Kaminga. At 28. Who is this Johnson? Oh, Keldon Johnson. That's why he's so forgetting. Oh, Kelton Johnson. Imagine is Jalen? Hell no

27 I have Rui And 26 I have Mamu Oh my God I have Mamu so much higher than you Of course you do Surprise surprise surprise He's your savior right now He's a white laker

He's top 10 Mamo's really good It's this past year Like I guess it's a little weird Because it was a one year breakout At 27 years old Or 26 where he was last year So I understand

He was like a per 75 minutes Demon last year Every Raptors fan Scream for the mountain tops Sam Mamu's the most underrated player in the NBA. And I think that title goes to tie Jerome.

I see why they feel that way, though. Mamu was insane last year in his offensive output in his bench role that we'll see you have above him. But there's like seven more names above that I'm like, I probably would rather have, even if Mamu has to be a bench player and can't play maximum minutes because of defense or whatever, I probably would rather have that unique dribble, pass, drive, get rebounds, type of skill set that Mamu has. Yeah.

And I mean, even for a lot of guys, I mean, he played almost 1800 minutes last year. You know, like a lot of guys, especially at this, at this range, we're talking about bench pieces. Some of those guys are not playing these many minutes and the fact that he did, he did do that. He did shoot at a very, very high level, his rebound and all this stuff. Like, I think there's a world, and more likely than not, where he is super productive for the Lakers. I just think that there might be some other players that have done it more consistently than him. and so that's why I don't have them I have them above this but actually yeah depending on where you have them we'll see but I'm sure I have the highest yeah but I do have them

above this is what there's a couple names that I knew I was definitely not reaching but giving him bent to doubt that what he did last year is real over guys who get more benefit of doubt to people because they've been good for several years yeah but I if I'm buying what he did last year because it was the first year he got that opportunity and really flourished into himself he's a late bloomer came into the league and took a few years to get going and kind of found himself last year. If I'm buying that it's real, the numbers are so undeniable to what he did last year. Like, he does 64% true shooting at 18 points per 75. That's crazy for a bench score that also obviously is a solid passer, stretches the floor, good rebound in force position. And he is right.

He's not a good defender, but he's an active defender that provides value there. It gets himself into passing lanes, high amount of steals and charges for his position that I just think he does a lot of things and the numbers all bared up. Yeah, I agree. The only thing that concerns you, of course, is like how he just completely fell off and felt like he was unplayable in the playoffs. I'm not going to blame him obviously because it's just straight up a bad matchup having to face those two bigs and Evan Mowbly and Jared Allen just not good at all. That Moby-Hammer got him. Yeah, exactly. And I don't blame him for that.

This is the first year really being good on a consistent nightly basis. So that's very fair. Someone that I do feel not bad about leaving out, but I can honestly say he's probably better, at least on a talent scale than some of these guys that I have at on this tier. is Jeremy Grant, bro. I completely forget he exists. He did have a good year last season, but the season before that, he shot like 38% from the field,

and it was just absolutely, like, disgusting basketball to see. So it's interesting now to see that he's bounced back and he has, like, great shooting numbers, and he's on the Grizzies now, which I almost forget. And I think he's probably going to start, I'm assuming so.

And, yeah, like, I'm very curious to see what he does. Yeah, the last... Yeah, especially last year, He was scamming like hard and just just out there. He's been scamming for years, for real. Yeah. But I think I think for him getting back to a place where you can still see some. It's great.

We're going to go into year 13 to Jeremy Grant. Like he's just been. Yeah, he's just been around. And I think there's, I can see a version of a team. And maybe the Grizzlies are different just because they're rebuilding. I can still see Jeremy Grant being productive on a on like a contending team or a positive. team being carved into like a very specific role but she had that size with his shooting coming back a little bit but the last his basically his entire tenure in portland has been so up and down so weird

that he is in the bottom five for me yeah i did forget about him i know what i have calcuzmo on my list one of the last spots we were retroactively put jeremy grand above cala cussmo in our heads oh 100 percent yes i forgot about him kuzma can get gone who's no you can't do that though i can't do what You can't take Hussam off. We was about to get bingo. Sorry, no bingo for us today. In spirit, we're taking them off my list. Ain't it so crazy?

Oh, here's your list. Oh, no, I did take Hauzma off. That's right. Never mind. I kicked his ass off for Ron Holland at the last second. Wow. I mean, Ron Holland is. Shout to Ron Holland.

He does stuff on the court. I love that for Ryan. I was horrible offense, but he's an awesome defender. So I'll put him on here because he does something good. But I forgot about Camingo, who I think is probably better than Ron Holland. And Grant. So we'll say Camingo gets 30 He got Bobby on here too

Okay I had to put somebody on here Bro the last three spots I was struggling I don't like Bobby Portis very much Yeah I just had to put somebody on here Mine is points for breaking bingo

No I'm not going to Yeah sorry Jeremy Grant and Caminga Get Bobby Portis in Holland spot I guess At 20 At 30 I have Ron Holland 29 Tristan de Silva

28 Bobby Portis 27 Philipowski and 26 Hachimora Philipowski like played a lot of center last year But I think he has a power forward And gonna play more power forward next year

But that's again I was really struggling with his last five names, and I just wanted to put somebody good. So I was like, I'm going to say Philipowski is a power for it today. Okay. Okay. That's perfectly fine. Do you have Colin Jones on your list? Nope.

That's so funny. The six men of the year ain't sniff nobody's list. I'm assuming he's on my ears. No, he's on my list. Oh, wow. Okay. Interesting. Okay.

Oh, very much more is in this tier. I guess in Donovan, you have him a little bit higher? Slightly. Yeah. Yeah, slightly. Some people will obviously disagree with that because he is the most efficient playoff shooter of all time. It's, we talked about this whenever the free agency period

happened and the Lakers kind of like explicitly chose Mamu over him. I think that's the right choice. I think Mama was a much more valuable basketball player than Ruri Hachimora, who is a better shooter than like almost anybody at the power four position. Literally the only thing he does above average value in though. Doesn't rebound for a

6-9 guy that you would want because he's a fairly athletic kind of bouncy guy a little bit. Doesn't rebound at all. Can't put the ball on the floor and create plays out the dribble for himself, which means he can't pass at all. Isn't a good defender fighting around screens or anything of the sort that requires mobility. Not like he's making up for him protection either. He very much is like just a very good spot of shooter.

And he's a power forward on this list. He's really, he's really a three. Just two. It's really a calcorp. Basically. But I mean, his shooting is is very valuable. And if you didn't have like if you didn't have Reeves, Luca and old man, man LeBron, you could probably insulate Rui and his entire ethos a lot more.

than also, you know, Aitin for whatever it's worth. But like, you can insulate him and deal with the downsides of Rui. And so for other teams that don't have an entire lineup where you feel like everybody needs to make up for this collective, you know, non-plus defender lineup, I think there's spaces for Rui to go out and be even more productive than what he was or seem more valuable than what he felt like in L.A. So like for the clippers He'll probably be better maybe

I doubt it Because now there's those people Set him up who's getting all those corner threes Offa luka LeBron reads gravity I think Rui's just Ruii honestly Yeah I think Dary's gone on in Keenwackle Set him up pretty fairly He's probably gonna average on 13 points

If it's 17 dollars gonna lose his mind It's gonna be like Dylan Brooks all over again Nah And I respect it to Don't think he'd be a Ruey guy He's gonna go to Japan I gotta go Yeah, obviously I need 20.

20 and I'll go to Tokyo. If Darius Garland misses a lot of games, yeah, he can get to 20. Dude, no, he can't. Well, Dary's got to miss a lot of games. What's a running point. The offense is going to be horrible. Oh, God, rookie Waggware. It's a lot to put on him.

His career high is 13.6. No, 13.8. You think he can get to 20? No, zero chance. You can't get the point. You're not dribbling. It's tough. Yeah, he got to get to the line.

That's Clay Thompson. Yeah, you're going to play. But yeah, he obviously deserves me on his list still even though I'm harboring on him being so limited And so far that I'm not worried about Lakers losing him Like some Lakers fans wanted me to be Still a good player like we said Even only being a spot-up shooter has value

If you're gonna do one skill in the league It's probably shoot really well That's how you give yourself the highest floor If you're gonna be a like one-trick pony type player So I think 26 is still a solid player Like 26 to 27 is a line of players I want on my team Billopowski and Hushimor are the last ones That I'm like I would like to have you

Bottom three I had to put guys but actually I guess I'd like to have Silva for some ways but really 27 is a line where I'm like I think you could start on some teams. I respected. I like that you have Mon Hall in here too. I didn't put him on a list he was like one of the first just cutoffs. Super tough for him in the situation

in Detroit because he just is another one of those guys who just can't shoot for a lick but he plays he's a hell of defense. He's a great slasher and all that but they just have one too many of those guys. I pray that he like has some form of jump shot because he could not start on a lot of teams but he could be a valuable bench piece for sure.

Yeah. All right. Let's go on to the top 25. At 25, I have Santhi Aldama. 24, Kagan Murray. 23, Miles Bridges. 22, PJ Washington. And 21, Tari Isson.

Whoa. No way. Oh, yeah. So, Kagan, so Kagan, he's on my list as well. Last year was just weird. And so I think I gave him a little bit more grace just because he missed a lot of time. He did. and the shooting was so bad that I'm,

and, because like on the small forwards list, I didn't rank Jimmy Butler even though that he played, he played more games than, then Kegan Murray. But I was like, you're aging. I have no idea what to think about you. Kegan Murray is still young enough to where I feel like even once you come back,

I know what you're going to be, and you're going to be Kigmanri. You're going to be somebody who shoots, you know, just decently. And it's not going to be the 27% that he shot this past year. So I gave him a little bit more grace than what you did. Yeah, I'm not considering him a non-shooter or anything. I think this is still, I think Target Eastern and PJ Washington is good company to be in.

I think these are all the same caliber of, like, non-needle-moving but good, big-wing type of players that can be in your lineup. And obviously, if you have a team like the Lakers who are offensive-oriented, I would love to have this caliber guy at the four who can give you some defense and give you a limited skill set, but a skill set that's important for a team that, like I said, has offensive-oriented stars, which is kind of like every team contending. Most of these guys have offensive engines that don't provide a lot of defensive value and need to be covered up. All three of those guys have a lot of size. Can do a lot of versatile things with it defending like two through four, switch on the fives a little bit. But you're not going to put the ball in any of their hands. They're all kind of corner sitters and like force multipliers for the guys I create. I'm also just assuming that he shoots like league average.

Yeah. It isn't. But it is a little concerning that every year of his career, his shooting has gotten worse. It's a little weird. No, that is very, literally every single metric is just worse. It's weird. And also he shot 1.5. shot attempts per 75 minutes at the rim last year

five short mid range and 2.1 long mid range does not get to the rim and has gotten worse than three every single year he does have to be saved yeah he does he can be can be just like p.j was like p.j washington i think he can be saved i think peter washington was also mid as fuck last year i agree playing with a bunch of nothing but i think they can be saved if they played next to luka again or whatever might be i think a lot of these guys like i got that's the logic i use a lot on this list specifically because i think power forward is a multiply the offensive engines type of position these days. So like a Jabari Smith, I put pretty high because I think you can be saved.

If you weren't playing with that stupid-ass Rockets team with no creators, again, if you played next to Luca Donchish or Trey Young or Darius Golan, whatever, as the lead creators, you can be saved for sure. And I think this whole tier is guys that should be saved. Yeah, I agree. Except Miles Bridges, he shouldn't be saved. Yeah, for sure. He didn't make my list. He didn't make my list. I should love them off.

But send him to Afghanistan. Yeah. So I do have, I do have PJ1. question higher for what you said because I do I don't think anything's wrong with him. He just had usually him and everyone else who was there for the lucre tenure had the weird situation ever. I know he's still good. The situation, the shots just look completely different.

They have like a whole cog of power for it. And he's still awkwardly there. I wish he would trade him like tomorrow because they're just not in the same time. I don't know. He's added to this roster for sure, but it just feels like a wonky fit these days. I think they will trade him honestly. I think that's still in the air. Yeah, they should.

It really is insane that you trade Luca and then that same like, you know, 12, in the next 12 month span, everybody who was involved, everybody who's in, who's on that team to make the finals is just gone now. And like kids, kids gone. Nico Harrison is gone. A.D. is gone. Kyrie, you know, who was hurt. But if Kyrie was healthy, I could see him. Like, he would have been traded last year too. Yeah.

And so it is, it is insane that he's still here. We know what we'll say, though. I'm sensing you guys put him a little bit higher because of the memory of what he was doing in 2024, being a very valuable piece of that team. I do agree with you guys. I'm also gauging him in that way. But I think 22 is appropriate for that level player. Yeah, that's perfectly fine. Because before and after that, and even during that stretch, he's never been like a good offensive player.

He always been fine. He can exist. And like I said, when you have a Luca type of offense, he gives you a floor that you can have average-ass offensive starters around you. It's cool. He can focus on defense, do all these things. But even in that scenario, he's not a needle-moving offensive player to me. He's never had a league average shooting in any way while also being spoon fed high quality shots.

So I think even with that in mind, 22 is, like, I don't think I'm dinging him at all for his situation. Yeah, no, he's still around this range for me. But I do think that in a perfect situation, he would be probably around like 13 or 14. Yeah. Really?

I think like best case scenario, PJ Washington, especially when you look back on like peak PJ, I think that could be, which is a funny sentence. What is PP? What was the difference to you? Magnet balls. That playoff series, essentially, yeah. But because even, like, for the rest of that playoffs, it's not, it's not even like

the whole stretch he was knocking down threes. It really was that specific series that he was going crazy. Yeah. So that, to me, doesn't signify peak anything. It's like, you had a good half the season. But I think he could still be better and be considered as more of a needle mover than what he was this last year. Yeah.

Honestly, I think if the Lakers were able to only trade one first-on pick for Walker Kessler or not two, I think he'd probably be a Laker today. I think that they're going to trade him. And, like, you know, Robert Linkish is trying to reunite the band together from 2024 Mavericks. Like, I think he probably would just be in the same situation if the Lakers have one more pick. You know, and I said to say, he's not going to be a Laker for that reason, but I think he will be traded to a contender and we'll have the opportunity to see him in that role again soon. I hope so. They got Marez now for the starting four. And Salty Aldama to be a backup for it.

They really don't need him. Yeah, they don't. All right, who's next? Okay, at 25, I have Obitopin. 24, I have Grant Williams, 23, Tristan de Silva, 22, Sonti Aldama, and 21, I have John Collins. Ooh, John Collins mentioned, I have him a little bit higher, but not too much difference to argue about it. Yeah, I literally put him down into this to your last minute just for, like, random minutia things. Yeah.

Like, he's just, sometimes he's just limited as a player. He has gone better when it comes to ancillary things, but not enough to where it makes a real difference or it's a vital piece. of your offense at all. But he's a good player. And I don't think the Pistons got necessarily worse without him or with it now compared to someone like Tobias Harris. I agree. I think there's like the exact same quality of player to me.

Yeah. And in fact, for some teams, I prefer John Collins. Yeah. Pistons, I got to figure out. Maybe you'd want them more. Someone who can dribble a little bit. Yeah. Just for the sake of the team.

It's so, it's so dire. Yeah. But it's not like Tobias Harris is putting the bush on the floor. Just get in mid-range buckets. Yeah. But, yeah, I do agree that that's like roughly the same caliber of player. Collins had an amazing year last year. He had a 65% true shooting, so that 75% at the room, 40% from 3 on decent volume, 4.4 shots per 75 from 3.

Like, he's like kind of developed over the course of years when he became irrelevant to being a kind of just high quality offensive power forward. It's been like that honestly for a couple years. Yeah, for a couple years. As soon as people stop talking about it, we got really nice at the ball. So, yeah, good for him. I like that. Obie didn't make my list, but I'm assuming that you're still just like, you know, once Tyrese gets back, that he'll just be Obie Top. Yeah, yeah. Again, just like a very valuable role player who can space the floor at a

unforeseen rate for me personally because I didn't think he had this level of shooting to him at all. And then of course, like, he's going to do all the transition stuff. He's a high flyer. He's a good viable role player that he just will always, you will always feel his presence on the goddamn court. Yeah. He's very efficient this year, as we see on the screen right now. For every piston, I mean, Pacer kind of just threw this year out the door. I feel you. Like, see, Alcon's numbers are down. Matthew's numbers are down.

I mean, not Matthew, N-Smith. Like, everybody's numbers are down. And I'm like, I don't care. It's fine. I'm, see that top left over there on data baller? It says 2026.

Every time I saw a piston, I clicked it. I put 2025. I don't give a shit about the 2026 season for the pistons. Fax. Oops. For the Pacers. Keep saying that. But shout out also to, on my list.

I had Grant Williams. I was struggling so hard to figure out where to place him. And I was like, okay, like he is coming off of like a whole injury, missing out on the year. came back and I think he came right back after the Hornet starts to make their run. And then as time went on, he actually added even more value to this team. And he found his role again. He plays great team defense, great communicator.

He's giving you the most like sound eight points a game. He's one of the better defenders on this roster too. He's just a real like stand up and do up and down dude. So he's normal as hell. He's a good player. And he adds to every organization. Shout out normal as Grant. Yeah.

Solid eight points per game. He's a he's normal SpongeBob when he gets all round. Facts. Facts, bro. Facts. It kind of looks like him too. Brat, he's good. The last, what, 27 games of the season.

He averaged a cool eight points, but shot 44 per seven three on like four attempts, brad. Yeah. That's good. Yeah, he was open. He's getting a five of seven fourth percentile and three point volume per 75. Like he is a spacer for real. And have him and not.

I was read now, you kind of always have that level of spacing from the power four position for 48 minutes. That's, that's, like, that's the goal for them. It's why they're doing that. Like, they're trying to win that math equation there. Good for them. Shout out Tristan de Silva. I love Santhi Aldama.

Sontal Dama is so good. He's so unique and his long-ass neck just looks a little weird and unique out there. And it just works. He's just slithery and he's just cool. He's a very good offensive player. Points for neck. Yeah. Points for neck.

We don't be so as a pro neck. He shoots 71% at the rim. He's a hooper, right? He's such a hooper. The way he moves is just fun to watch. Yeah, I agree. I agree. That skill set of being able to drive, shoot threes, and rebound from the power four position.

It's kind of like Mamu. I really, really value that skill set from the four. As long as you're not like a total defensive liability where I think San Antonio is not a great defender. He's actually probably a worst defender than Mamu, which is why I had him like a tier below. But that specific skill set from the four in today's NBA, when, especially because playoff defenses are so good now at defending stars and getting the ball out of their hands. if you're a star guard especially your numbers are going to go down in the playoffs even shea the most consistent player we've seen in the last five years yeah you're getting doubled you're getting doubled

you're going to be in hell you better figure that shit out having a four that can create out the dribble is so important which is why i think for the maps to get him as big and i can see them trading peter washington open up minutes there next to cooper flag why i love mama when the lakers like having that's going to be a meta i think having a four that can play make like that yeah i i think that's like everybody tries to find their version of jermont green And a lot of times you think about somebody who's very switchable on defense and can just and can knock down threes. The short roll passing, the intermediate passing stuff, that's something that's also just very, very hard to, it's overlooked, but it's also very, very hard to find somebody who's that just naturally gifted at and making reads at that area of the floor. Yeah.

And yeah, it's short role and like when the ball swings around you on these double teams and you're staying in the corner, can you do something besides just shoot a three against a late contest? they want you to shoot. Can you attack the clothes out and dribble and throw a pass to the collapsing defense? Yeah. Something can do that. Yeah. And who else can do that on here? Grant can do that a little bit.

I think John Collins can do that a little bit while the drilling isn't as good. And like I said, Mama can do that who I have up next in the tier. Yeah. Very, very important archetype. I agree. What is Donovan got? At 25, I have Kelden. 24.

I have Rui. 23. I have Julius Randall. 22, I have John Collins and 21. I have Mama. Wow. Okay. John Conch is 22's fair.

and Randall at 23 is diabolical. Dude, it's... I don't think it is. Like, yeah, obviously, because I put him here. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's hard. It's hard. It's really, really hard.

Especially coming off of this season, what are you... What's the defense for Randall and how it went down? Yeah, fair question. I struggle with this to two. 23 is fair based on last year. I think he's at a long career and last year was a bad year. And I'm giving him benefit for the doubt to some extent that we know who Julius Randall is. He had a good year the year before that. Last year was weird. We know they had

this weird locker room stuff. The fit just kind of fell apart. He just played poorly. Like, there's no excuse to, I'm not giving him, he needs a new coach, needs a new fit. Like, he had a team he could fit on. He played like shit last year. And it spiraled and just was a bad year, right? Like, these numbers were seeing on screen right now are of the 23rd best power for in the league. Yeah. We know who Julius Randall is. I don't, I think it's an off year that I'm, I'm choosing to give him a little bit benefited out. I also put him low. But I did consider putting him as low as you did, I just decided that, like, I'm going to get real and think that next year, Randall will probably be better than John Collins again. Yeah. For, for,

for Randall, I think it's, I think it's tough just because the, like, we've seen him not play well before and still been able to acknowledge his talent. But I think when, when Randall has his, because every season, there's always like a 15 game stretch. We're like, you know, what is Julius Randall doing and a lot of times it's very very clear because you can see the the you can see his engagement level drop defensively offensively multiple times a season when the shot is not falling and for for two of the last three years really the last three years it hasn't hasn't fallen like amazingly and I think when you leave New York and there's you know something things about just the general vibe of the team after you leave. And then as soon as this season is

over, basically every single player on the team in their exit interviews is talking about, yeah, we need to be better about our moodiness, about our moodiness. We need to be better about handling our emotions. And that being something where it starts to spiral and it does start to start to affect the team as a whole, I think that that being a consistent issue and a consistent thing that you can look at with Julius Randall and say, yes, you are going through something bad,

but you have something in you that is now making those things compound upon themselves. And that's very, very hard for me to defend. And clearly the players felt that, the wolves felt that Julius Randall is a guy who averages 20 in this league. He got salary dumped. Like they didn't care.

They got a worse pick Like it didn't mean anything For the Timberts They just said that we had to get him out of the building And that means a lot to me for Julius Randall So that's why I did put him as low as I did Yeah no it's fair It's definitely fair

I can't really justify my positioning of him I think it's like I just feel bad I guess I'm like surely you're not this unvaluble And surely you can be better It's again it's kind of like We talk about this for a few of people The people on previous positions

where I'm like, kind of like the Zach Levine thing where I'm like, I'm just choosing to believe you're not like somebody that a team would deem worthless. Like I'm choosing to believe that next year you'll bounce back and it's pure blind faith and I guess me trying not to overreact to one bad year. But if there's ever a player that you can take it at their lowest because the ceiling that I'm describing

isn't even that good. It is Randall. Like it is fair. And with Levine, Levine's been in Chicago and he's been in Sacramento. Yes. Right? Those two, we had two months of,

of a positive Chicago Bulls experience four years ago, that's been the peak window when you can actually judge Zach Levine in terms of like, he's in his prime, he's in a winning situation, whatever. For Randall, the last two teams that he has been on have been very, very good. So it's not like the situation around him is something where, oh, you have to really go get it out of the mud.

I think that he's been in on good teams and has had opportunities and has been empowered to a certain level to go out and play his game and play well and it just hasn't happened and yeah i don't i don't want it to seem like i'm just like kicking julius randah while he's down just feel like this is one of the realities of where we're at with him in his career yeah you are definitely being fair well you're definitely being realistic i'll say that whatever you can you can yeah i mean i'm fair i feel like i may be like just but not fair yeah yeah you're being just there's that that's a good way to phrase it yeah you're not being ridiculous i completely understand it going back to what you said when it comes to

players who are similar is to Sonti Aldama and Mamu when it comes to their ability to attack close out, dribble a little bit, pass a little bit. In this tier, obviously for you, like Randall is the best at that without like being a star or super star or whatever, or how you want to categorize that. He's the best at that and that's very fair. And how he, how I view him now is like, okay, like you've made your role in the NBA like super clear. You're not a star because you just don't respond to controversy well at all.

And at every point of every single NBA season for teams who are expected to win at any certain level in the playoffs specifically, like you're going to face that. And he just faces it in the worst way possible. Not even the postseason, the regular season too sometimes. And when it comes to that, that's I can't justify that at all. All I can do is talk about him and how played pretty well, pretty well when it comes to the series versus the Denver Nuggets. his numbers aren't like super outstanding, but he did average like 19 or whatever. He saw it decently from the field, not the best, but it was okay. But he was a catalyst for them, like, embarrassing the Denver Knicks.

He's a good player. And for my expectations on the Brooklyn Nets, he's in the perfect environment to where there's no pressure at all. Just elevate us and make basketball a little bit easier for people. And he can do that. Yeah, I'm kind of excited for his bit on that team, that you have the big forward next to him that can give you the space he needed. one of the highest gravity shooters in the league in Michael Porter Jr. And a back court in Jomon and Mikhail Brown Jr. That I think is like going to be a nice dynamic mix of shooting and ball handling.

There should be great spacing for Randall to be able to do what he does and be able to create the paint touches that kind of allow those guys to be more perimeter oriented. Good spot for him, I think, to give some kind of bounce back to his value. Yeah. And you know what? I will say this too, to your point, which I can justify for you in my mind, why Randall was at 23. If I was a DM,

if I was the Detroit Pistons' GM specifically, I'd rather have cons on my team than Randall because of money, obviously, and fit-wise, like money-fit-wise, they're just way less expectation, and I think I can get to the same exact place with both of these players. Fair. Yeah, I'm just the temperature of thinking, like,

it's tough. Again, obviously, might keep framing it through the Lakers because that's what I've been thinking about a team I needed a power forward. I don't think I'd want them to get Randall even a little bit. Yeah. Like, I'd rather have John Collins and I'd clearly rather have Mamu. Like, I wouldn't want them to pursue Randall at all.

And theoretically, that's a, not even theoretically. That's like the best spot for a power forward in the league right now, playing off of Reeves and Luca. Like, you can't ask for more of a opportunity and need for your team and need for your role to be, like, high level for the team to thrive. I wouldn't want Randall at all. Yeah. It's tough. I mean, he shot, bro.

He shot like 29% for three in the playoffs as a whole. Shot 19% in the second round against San Antonio. San Antonio just like, I could. think for a player of his position and his like traits, Santone's literally the worst, the worst team for him to face off against. And we'll know if he's know it's funny.

It might be the best team for him to be on. Yeah. Him and Wemby would be kind of dope. Which everybody in Wembe's kind of dope. I know. But like the strength of Randall, like I kind of like that. Grant Williams and Wembe. Tough.

Want to see you. That's actually nice. That's pretty good. Scary sights. If I get Prime Grant, who's stopping them? Nobody. The leader of the NBA, PA?

And the face. the league. Is he the for a leader now? Actually, no, C.J. McCollum is, but he's one of them. There's like, there's a few presidents or vice presidents. He's in the mix. But I think Cesar McCollum is like the head, I think. Okay. Yeah, Grant's one of the VPs. All right, next up, let's go to the top 20.

Top 20. At 20, I have Tari Eason, 19. I have Tobias Harris. 18, Kiga Murray, 17, Draymond Green, and 16, Derek Jones Jr. Oh, I thought Derek Jones is a small Ford. I didn't put him on my list, but I would he's a power ford. Yeah, he's, in my mind, just pretty much view him as a Ford thought the

entirety of his career, or at least when he got like really good in 2023 and onward. But, yeah, I guess we could start with him. Good defender. Great defender. Of course, he's like, leaner and on the skinnier side of things or whatever. You like the way I said that? Yeah. On the skinnier side of things. Scrashes ears, whoa. I am handing out vocab points. If y'all give me some good vocab words today. I gave you one yesterday for additive. You love additive.

Additive. Regular word. Bro, I've never heard that word until I can't. I'm not with y'all, man. The normal ass word. Yeah. Wait until I hit you with a precipitous. You're going to have melt?

I've heard it before. Trust me. Oh, okay. You heard of that and not additive? I don't think it was on a ranking video, but moving forward, vocab points will be handed out. Okay. Okay.

Yeah. Bro, the most shocking thing and something that wasn't prepared to do at all was put Draymond Green at 17. Oh, that's Draymond Green. Yes. Yeah, he's hired for me. He's what?

He's hired for me. Okay, good. I thought you said he's out for you. Yeah, yeah. I was like, wow. Dude, Draymond, it's just so putrid sometimes and last year we've seen the worst of it. Especially, like, every time

Steph is just not out. That's fair. He just doesn't want to play basketball. He will actively try to either, like two years ago a couple years ago we've seen he didn't want to play he injured himself right he didn't want to play at all yeah just to get himself out of games offensively when stuff's

not there just like bro like okay I understand you can pass a little bit but like what do you do you don't do anything particularly well at all you believe you wide the fuck open from three sure you take them but it's not like they're you're scaring anybody for real so it's sometimes it's hard to see his value when stuff is not there look at the offensive impact last year

on the top left yeah offensive darko plus minus is negative 1.9 And of course, like, I was going to put him higher straight up off of reputation. But I'm like, okay, that's fair. But I have to be harsher for him. You know why he sucked last year? Look at the second level. The second level of stats shows his on-ball percentage and some of the playmaking stats.

17.7 assisted points for 75 is highest level. Look how full the green bar is. He's very good at that. We know him to be a legendary playmaker for the powerful position, right? 3.5 turnovers for 75 and 15.9% of his turnovers are creation turnover percentage. That's terrible. You're giving back just as much as you're bringing in in the playmaking department by turning the ball over that frequently. And there was a month of last season where it looked like he was a dick to the turnovers.

It was nuts. Yeah, exactly. It was looking real bad. I was looking real bad to the points where a lot of worries friends are like, bro, I honestly don't think we need this guy on your team. Now, of course, with all that being said, the defense is still there. And whenever he wants to lock in, he fully can do that. he has like that superpower for the rest of his life probably.

But with how just bad at times he just looked with any guy who is not named Steph Curry, I just can't, I just can't defend that. Yeah, it wasn't his best year at all. I dinged him a little bit in his standings for that too. Like in previous years, he would have been top 10. I didn't do that. Steve still is on the team. Jimmy Buller is out.

Like, I'm just, again, he's a top of player that I'm just going to assume that when they're whole, we know what he does. And we also know the downsides and when they're not whole. He's a unique player in history that, like, the situation has. to be good and he's the best ceiling raiser in role player history. So I treated him like I just know who Drummond is at this point, but he's only getting older. And if you're saying this year was a sign of things to come, I cannot blame you. Yeah, especially with the like there's, and there's been multiple times over the last couple years,

like the fact of him not wanting to play and if Seth is not there, Steph is also getting older and stuff is missing more games and more games. And so now you have more opportunities to have Draymond without Steph. and those games are very, very volatile. And I think a lot of times you see the Warriors in very critical positions, you're like, okay, Jermon, like, can you lock him for a second? He's like, absolutely not.

Yeah. He's like, no, I'm, I'm me and this is just what comes with the back. No, put asking. It's tough, bro. It's like, this is a power forward ranking. It's about time you learn what it's like around here. Stop asking questions or else.

Or else. This is a power forward ranking. Why the hell do we always have to mention And Steph, we talk about Draymond and Greenberg. I want to focus on you as an individual. And individually, you just are not good last. You need to know. When you see him, you see him.

Yeah. He's a very unique player. It is what it is. Yeah. Yeah, we treat him a little differently and he's kind of earned that right. Yeah. I agree. For good or bad.

What is that? It's not even necessarily a good thing. He's a unique player. I didn't say he's a uniquely great player. He's just a unique player that has his pros and cons that nobody else has. Sadd Attaire. Salute. And a shout out of King and Murray, I guess.

You are theoretically the 18 best power for in the league. Yep. I agree. Next up. At 20, I have Tari. At 19, at 19, I have Keegan, 18, I have PJ, 17, I have Nasree, and at 16, I have Palo. You're not pulling any punches today. All of these mediocre ass power forwards who played like shit, you said, I'm going to grade you like shit.

It's tough. Fair, fair. It's tough. And like, Paulo, when I first was going through the list, I was moving Paulo and Randall up and down together. But then I ended up moving Paolo higher than Randall just because he did have some moments in the in the playoffs where he still did play well You know like they had he had a game where he had 45 points where he was going ban for band for bade and you can still see So you can still see sometimes the the highlights For for for Paulo

However I Like this team I think is year in and year out going to be one of the more disappointing teams until Palo really takes, not even the next step. I think he needs like two more steps to get to the potential of what we've been talking about with him and the downsides and the lock-in that we had that we thought that he had after the all-star break. He had the self-awareness to come out and be like, maybe it is me. And then right after, then you start seeing him turn back into just, you know, the regular Palo.

this is very hard to build around when I outside of going out and getting 30 every single night I don't know where else you can contribute and so if you're not getting 30 at the highest level every single night then um it's it's very very hard hard to rank you so that is that is why I think he's right around middle of the pack in the league I you're not wrong last year as far as you know grading him with the responsibility of being a creator being the lead creator for your team he was not good at that. He is at best an average league creator offensively right now. You know, as far as the role and responsibility that comes with that,

you gauge all the guys who are responsible for creating their team's offense across the league. As far as the teams that are in the playoffs, he's on the lower end. And he doesn't bring back defensive value at all. So I do, for everything you just said about the mentality stuff, I still kind of have some part of me that has faith, that he will kind of reach a point that maybe he's not what people thought he could be as on the best players in the league, but he becomes a good version of this player.

I still kind of like buy into his mindset and the skill set there. Like the flashes we see in those few games that we give him credit for when the playoffs start every year, that I'm not writing him off as being a guy who just can't be a all-star level creator for your team that gets you anywhere. But thus far, he just has never once proven for an entire season that he is good enough. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. And I mean, so right now we're going to go into, we're going to go into year five. and I think this is about the time where we can stop being like

I agree like you know I still have hope we said this last year when we talked about him we said we give you one more year and next year we'll be done having hope I don't longer have hope I'm I'm just saying that to say I'm not writing him off but I will not be going to next year assuming a leap of any sort

yeah it has to be it has to be proven honestly like two or three times before I fully believe that that is is who Paulo is and I mean the shooting he shot the worst that he's a shot in his career this last year to be fair dealt with an injury that slowed him down for a chunk of the season which it was something I mean he still yeah he still played 72 games sure sure but it was an injury that lingers

and I think between that last year being out with the with the oblique injury I and this is more of like a magic thing as as a whole we talk about it a lot where it's I wonder where they're at with how they feel about the development of the team and Franz and Paolo and do they feel like they are 65% of the way to the proper build? Do they feel like they're 80% and they're missing like one piece or something? Because the continuity between those two guys is not there. And very clearly they are trying to they're trying to be another version of what the Celtics were where you have these these two forwards that can take over games that can be very dominant. it and we saw we saw jalen and jason figure it out and even before they actually won the title they

were still making deep playoff runs like the knock on them was that they just couldn't execute in the in the last five minutes right but they were making conference finals they were making they made the finals in 22 before they got there in 24 we haven't seen this team win a playoff series and that's something where under under under the magic in these last couple years it's not really there so the production is start we're starting to stack up years of non-production not moving forward in the playoffs and that's kind of a big issue for me yeah i do find that interesting because i saw a tweet yesterday talking about the continuity of teams and i think if i remember correctly since twenty twenty three the magic and the celtics are the only players who have like four players

from the twenty twenty three roster you're correct and it's not even counting palo bancaro everybody around him has been there for a long time so yeah you're right he's had his nucleus in place since the day he stepped into the league yeah so they clearly believe in that core you know it sucks that core is clearly not good enough and clearly doesn't fit So they're just committing to a team that for three years we've all said, you've got to change the shit up. What's sucked about them, too, is like if you, awkwardly enough look at the numbers, net rating and all that, they are a good unit together. But the thing is, like, they don't be playing together as often because someone's always going down with some catastrophic injury. Last two years ago, Paolo went in, or I think Franz was out with like an oblique.

Next thing you know, when Franz comes back, Palos out with the same thing. This past year, Franz was out again for some time. and then Paulo he was dealing with the entire General Suggs dealt with his own thing. So they've never had like, I'm not going to say a fair chance because even if you are there, like we need to see chemistry. We need to see like at least like fluid

offensive fluid, fluidity offensively and we tend to not see that. And yeah, it's literally now or never considering they made their all-in move last off-season for Desmond Maine. And since then they didn't do jack shit this off-season other than waive Jonathan Isaac and then

sign him right back. Other than that, nothing has happened bro and obviously like it's all or nothing too because they fired the head coach who he's just jemal mozzi deserved to be fired they hired uh things named is sean swiney now from the spurs and they're hoping to have like a whole new offensive philosophy in place if it's not now then someone needs to be traded onto off of the scene maybe a couple players as well and i don't know it's obviously we talked about it we did the exercise a couple months ago it's damn near impossible it feels impossible to trade someone like polybin carroll because because of money and how much ball attention that he requires and all that.

But at this point in time, it will be so much easier to not prioritize him, considering, yo. Look at his first three, four games into that playoff series against the Detroit Pistons. Before he dropped like 45 on them, his numbers are literally putrid and he shot sub 40% from the field, bro. Yeah. And shout of those big games. The playing game he had was magical. fellow who were watching the best version probably we could ever exist. We were having a great time giving him props for that.

It's always great times every now and then that we're giving them props for. It's never just this is who you are and we don't have to be surprised when it happens. The shock and awe we have to display and these fake apologies that are demanded of us every time he plays well, look what he can do twice a month. It's like, damn, I wish he did it every day. That'd be nice. I would love to give him the applause you give him if he did it on any regular basis. That wasn't warranting a parade when he has a crazy game.

And I mean, the playing tournament as a whole, was crazy because they lost the first game and he looked the worst that he's ever looked. And then the second game, he looked the best that he ever looked. And so if you're going from the best in the league to the worst in the league, the average is you,

that puts you right here in the middle at 1516. Yeah. It's not ridiculous at all. I put him like a couple spots higher than you, I think it's very, very marginal the difference. We agree on the view of him. I think there's just a couple players that like, I think are also like not needle moving enough

for me to put above him. But we definitely agree on the general point about Palo. All right, let's see my list. All right. at 20 have gnaz reed 19 tobias harris 18 john collins 17 sandro and 16 jabari smith junior damn no bingoes yeah jabari smith is the ultimate i know for a fact we can save you wow i'm like if we put you on team of creators and you can actually have easy shots fed to you i know for a fact we can save you i have them higher i have him higher for sure can't go much higher because he

currently has never been a good offensive player for a day in his life and he's a because he needs to be saved Exactly, but he hasn't been saved yet. There's no production of the bucket, yeah. I can't give him so much benefit for the doubt. Because, again, he can't do anything with the ball in his hands. But I have so much bait that we put you in an environment where you can be the lion's share of the defensive credit. You can corner sit and play finish and cut and use that size and the unique skills that you have. You'd be the perfect Luca Dantz's teammate.

We can save you in that team construction. Luca Dotsch's teammate. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you're right. Like his offensive stuff is terrible. Everything really is just through a Luca Lance. I know.

Well, I don't know, Trey Young Garland. whatever, that type of guard. Like, if you were Power 4 for the Thunder playing as a Shea teammate too, like, you can play next to these league creators that dominate the league. I use Luca because he's the poster boy for league creators. But offensive guards that are your team's engine, that archetype that Luca is the face of, Jabari Smith is the perfect player for that archetype. Yeah, I agree.

I don't, it's so annoying seeing him come out of Auburn because when he was first drafted, people were like compared him to fucking Chris Middleton and all this wild ass shit. and I just don't think he would he ever had that into his back at all yes those are that's a real you said Chris Middleton yes he sets up random because it's so much like more guardish but yes I agree he was per he was perceived to be a guy who's ball handling would develop yeah exactly he loved a good kD comparison that was also there yeah and those things should have never been there at all and all people do it was like project and I he's a good player he's a great player for what he for what he is he's one of the better defenders at his position obviously when it comes

the shooting. He is the only guy outside of KDU can do that on a consistent level, although we didn't see in the playoffs because the situation was just completely dire. They had no guys who can create form at all. I think he's good. And I think he'll add so much to a lot of teams. And he added as much as he possibly could to the Houston Rockets. The situation is just fried. Yeah, yeah. If they could ever get a guard that can drive downhill and create offense and we're not doing these elbow touches from Schengun is our lead playmaking. And we had actual driving kick basketball. Jabari Smith is going to be revelation to a team. One day he'll leave the rockets and go to a contender in that exact situation.

Maybe he'll go play for like Dylan Harper and Wemby. He'll come beat the third option there in six years or whatever when they need to power forward and we're going to be like, holy shit, I wish Jabbar was playing with a good guard for his whole career. Yeah, but he had to get Shingoo-out of here. That alone won't even fix it. When he gets Shing-Gun out of here and then like Garland in here,

something like that. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. But he had a good season last year. Forty-five from the field, 36% from 3, 16.7 rebounds. Good player. How do we get Deer in all the rockets? he wasn't he almost there for like two seconds was that like a part of the teams that he wanted to get traded to yeah like it he wants to go to texas yeah like obviously it'll have to be like a three teamer because the spurs are not getting shingoon

but we need we need deer in there yeah same for jibari that wouldn't be there's your answer trading for jibari but he makes so much money it's tough how do we get de erin and jubari there is the thing yeah well i don't care about that i want jibari with dillan harper and wimbi de jane can go chill with shingoon that would be disgusting Yeah, that's fine with me.

But yeah, I have Mama with 17, who I think I would rather have than John Collins, Harris, and Reed. I think he is very similar to Reed and archetype of these power forward-sized guys that provide you a lot of spacing. I can give you, like, real shooting in a quick-trigger way, not just like I can shoot an open shot, like, real impactful shooters that can also dribble and create. I just think he's a meaningly better playmaker. I think he's a very good passer force position that. Noss Reed is like his ball handling and like driving kick ability gives you that, but he's not making like crazy reads or anything. Mamu is a very versatile, like, effective passer that can elevate those around him. He can do big to big lobs.

He can do driving kick. He can do short roll reads. He's, as far as offense goes, the full package for a role player. Now, defensively, obviously, he's very, very groundbound and nothing special. When he has to play center for the Raptors last year, the room protection numbers are terrible. I have a lot of hope, though, that him playing next to Walker Kessler and be going to be a power forward, where he can just use his good IQ and activity and ability to play passing lanes and not be forced to really defend at the rim all that much. I don't know.

I don't really think he'll be a negative on defense next year next to another room protector. Yeah. Look at all this green. He's a per 75 demon. Look at this. This is nuts. I think 17 is doing a lot,

but of course I understand your situation. Your situation. Yeah. Like he is. Me looking at the evidence. It's John Collins and Nasree conversations. I don't think it's doing a lot at all. I think both of those players are better than him.

And obviously, fuck no, is insane. This guy couldn't play in the playoff last year, bro. He got hammered. Yeah, he got hammered by Evan Moby in one series. I agree. He's a role player.

All these guys are role players. You think John Collins is never in a situation where he get locked up by Evan Mowbly? Like, that's the, I didn't put him at 10. His playoff performance is an indictment of anything. John Collins would never.

He would never get locked up by the movie. He couldn't. Like, yeah, he had a bad game and a bad office situation. He's going to a much better one that he, they really needed him in that series because they were so down bad of creation and shooting and all that. It's more of a Brandon Ingram thing to.

Yeah, no, no, no, no quickly. Like the entire offense of the Raptors has been bad for just, just mid for a long time. Yeah, so they really needed him to shine and he didn't, right?

I do think you're saying like absolutely not. Yeah. Absolutely not to what? Too much. To what, John Collins? Yeah, to Mammu being like, like the way you're describing it right now, it sounds like you're saying like mom losing like a different tier. No, no, they're right next to each other.

There's not a tier clearly. They're right next to each other. The way you are speaking, I'm saying, I'm saying kind of defies them. Well, I feel like he was saying those are better players in a very definitive way. And to me, I'm saying it's absolutely not definitive. I said you're doing a little too much. That's all. Nevertheless, you said those are better players than him explicitly.

And I think to say that those guys clear him or whatever you mean, I don't, whatever. To say that I feel like the implication was they shouldn't be next to each other or he shouldn't be right above them. Because clearly I think they're all similar caliber caliber caliber. That's why they're in this tier. I think I would rather have him because of versatility. And there's similar caliber players that they're close enough that I'll take him for the things he did well last year. And I do recognize that it was one year and one situation. He's a very new player that if you want to say you don't think he's proved it to you year and year out,

that he can be that player again, that's a fair argument to me. If we're just not taking it at face value and saying that he needs to prove you for one more season that he's at this level, cool. But I think if we are looking at what he did last year for the entire year with the Raptors, I have zero problem saying he's better than John Collins

and Nasreid, who are... They similarly have very high highs. We talked about John Collins. I think his ability to be a role man and an impactful three-point shooter makes him incredibly valuable as a power forward that can be a legit pick and roll partner next to a five,

which is why I think I have John Collins pretty high too. I also really, really value him. Doesn't move the needle enough defensively for me to say that gives him points over Mamu and then the playmaking gap is so big over guys like Harrison Reed who do nothing there. And I think that's really like I mentioned earlier. That is a role that I think is going to become more and more present for top level teams, power forward or just big wing type guys that can create and playmaking for others playing off off with these aggressive defenses that guards have. We haven't seen it yet because Shea doesn't

have a guy like that. Everybody around Shea can't pass for shit and that's led to issues. Luca had that with LeBron at times last year. Couldn't see it in the playoffs. So maybe that could have been the same type of revelation for people, but he's LeBron. So people weren't going to take that as anything other than he's fucking LeBron James. But that idea of that big forward spot being a guy who can playoff for others off of those aggressive playoff coverages, I think is going to be a meta in the league that we see go across the entire league. Yeah, it just, for me, when it comes to looking at ML moving, all these other team names

on this tier, he's clearly the worst defender here. Clearly a worst defender than Nas Reid? Nas Reid. Yeah, I think Nas Reid and his length lets him live on defense, lets him be. be unknowing sometimes on defense. Obviously he's not like doing much at the fucking on the perimeter, but he's there and he can move his feet. And I think shit gets real dire. And there's reasons why like he is like when it comes to ultra big lineups and shit like that, obviously really go back clouds a lot of shit. There you go. That's a lot of shit. But nonetheless,

like he's a, neither these guys are rent protectors, but Nazaree is more of a deterrent than someone like Mamu, you know? And in the Western conference, things just get even spookier. Evan Moby is not there no more. Your face is fucking Wemby. Guys like Tet will be there to fucking unknow you and blow you way to smithereens bro. So it's not, it's not going to get any easier. I just think it can get spooky really fast if his shot isn't going, which it did not go, nor the pattern. The passing was like all like jacked up to a little bit.

And the day, I don't disagree with you about that downside. That's the case. These are all role players. That's the case for all these guys. So we can pinpoint for every single one of these guys, ways in which things could fall apart and get spooky real fast. I think that's true for every single guy here. I think Mamu has the most paths of these guys.

to still providing value if shit does get spooky for one or two of his strengths. Yeah. Okay. I disagree only because I feel like the defense's will be so dire. If you want to have him at the very top of your tier, you need to have a mental top of tier. If you want the Lakers, it would be like a three seed in the Western Conference. It's not even about that.

We talked about it. We talked about it. It was one of the more underrated players that blew up. And I get your point. It's funny. But like, I don't think it's just that. I do think he's actually very good. Okay.

I do want to ask Moe, Derek Jones Jr. over Dreamon-Won Green. what's the logic bind that? Derek Jones Jr. can play with anybody and be good. Draymond can. Like Derek Jones Jr., he's going to, like, jump up really high. Any, any pass towards the room, he's going to dunk that bitch. Derek Jones, Jr. is going to play good defense. Obviously, Jermon Green going to play even better defense.

But Derek Jones, Jr. is just like, he has so many answer your skills that are just straight up better. Now, if you want to ding him because of health, that's 100% fair because he hasn't been healthy for real consistently over the last two years, last season specifically. but for me, I value that and I think Derek Jones Jr. is a prime trade candidate. I like to see him on the team like the Lakers or whoever else you can think of because he just gives you immense value and he's always like

a positive there. Okay. Good answer. Good answer. Boys for having an answer? That was a good answer. I was still, I would if I put Derek Jones on here, what would I rank him? Probably like 22 or something like that. If we put him on our list, what about you? I'd have them

above key. Actually, he'd probably be, maybe around here. I think I might take him over, over Nasree. Like, yeah, Nazrie would be the line. Did you guys put him on the power for it? No, no. Oh, okay. I think I'd rather have Tari Isan.

That's the line I'm looking at on Donovan's list and your list. I think I'd rather have Yassin than Jones. Yeah. Yeah, that's, I mean, they're both like shaky shooters, so I can, I can understand that. Yeah, I think, and Derek Jones is like a supreme corner sitter. I think Yacin can do a little more slashing. And I think Easton's defense is more impactful. But it's close.

They're both very good defenders. Yeah. I would love Derek Jones. You're on my team, man. Derek Jones is so good. Yeah. It's crazy. He's been in league for 10 years, right?

Jesus, guy won't want a dunk contest. We forget about that. Against Aaron Gordon. Against Aaron Gordon. He'd be an Aaron Gordon and a dunk contest. That's crazy. He'd be Aaron Gordon in a dunk contest. Yeah, that was the second time, right?

I think so, yeah. I'll be so pissed if I was the Aaron Gord, man. Yeah. It's like, I'm never coming back. He's walking around getting robbed. He's not coming back. I know. I gave up.

listen, he can't do it now. So y'all don't appreciate my skill set. Fair enough. All right, on to the top 15. At 15, I have Julius Randall. At 14, I have Dramon Green. At 13, I have Colin Murray Boyles. At 12, I have Jalen Johnson.

And 11 have Palo Bencaro. It's kind of low for Jalen. Don't think so. To me, the top 10 is like all all stars. So he's kind of basically what it is between him and Palo specifically is, I guess theoretically, he was better than Palo in the regular season

in terms of like he didn't have the downsides of Palo. Equally as unproven in the playoffs, so I can't give him that nod of like, I trust you more. I think they're both for different reasons right now not equipped to be a like lead guy even though Jalen has been thrust into that role. I think thus far he's kind of the poster boy to me

he's a very good player, not saying he shouldn't be a important part of the rapt, the hawks or anything. But I think he's kind of the poster boy of like, yeah, if you give anybody usage, I can put up all-star caliber stats, but should they be all-star caliber lead creators? And I think at his point of his development,

barring major improvements, it's a hard no. That he's a very good second option, which is a big development point from where he was in previous years. I think similarly to Palo Ban Karol, but like I said, for different reasons, has no business being the lead creator for a team.

And that's fair. But I also think that on this list, there's not a lot of guys that I would want to be my lead creator. So I think, so he is higher than this for me. because if we start talking about like just second options and your ability to score to to play make obviously like his defense as he's become a bucket and a more offensive slants a guy that's kind of gone by by the wayside but I do think that that's the answer for me yeah that's and that's that's fair I do think I do think that his offensive game is um is really

it's obviously like impactful and the playoff series is the playoff series that was something that I wanted to see. Not to say that I'm going to give him a pass, but it's much more understandable that not only is it like one of your first times in like a major playoff series, but it's your first time as the guy. And as you started to ascend and get better, so much stuff with the Hawks has changed over the last 18 months in terms of they're standing with Trey, this idea that that you were going to get the number one overall pick and then he comes in and is basically just a role player and you're not really getting anything additive from that spot on your team.

They've been in constant flux and I think that Jalen Johnson has done a very, very good job of maintaining the ship and providing them with enough offense that they can still be mid. When you look, when you go down the list of the things that have happened to the Hawks, they should be a nine seed every single year. And the fact that they were the 60th this year, the five seed every single year, whatever. I think that is a big testament to Jalen Johnson and obviously like the Ascension of Nikale Alexander Walker, but I think I think he has proven that he could be

a little bit higher than Palo. I think if you want to swap him in Palo, I don't care. That's fine. I think they're of equal caliber in this list. I just gave Palo critics. I think he's like, I couldn't do the unproven thing with Jalen Johnson. So I was like, okay, I guess Palo's earned the respect to be one spot higher. Would you rather be unproven or proven that you can't really, that you can't really do.

Yeah, swap those two. That's cool. But I do firmly think that 11's a highest he can be because. Oh, no, he's actually a little bit higher. No, yeah, fair. I'm not saying it's crazy. But for my last thing it's crazy. but for my list, the highest I can put him as 11 possibly. I can only be convinced to go to 11. Just because the next three names are,

again, I'll bring you the assumption that Jalen Johnson has to be a second option, which is a very simplistic way to view it. If he can't be your lead creator like he's currently asked to be, I would rather have a Jaron Jackson who's a, like, his defense is much more valuable than Jalen Johnson's offense. And I think the other side of that equation leads me towards Jaron Jackson. And then Lauer Marketing, who's like, perfect second option, off ball power forward weapon like insane off ball shooter and like if you both agree there

have to be off ball weapons i think larry marking is much better equipped for that and i think while jalen johnson is obviously more playmaking i think i i care more about the offball skills of larry markin in in that role and both not good defenders i think larry is a little more salvageable because at least has a size to be really valuable as it's like in this creative way that jaylin johnson's defense i think in a scenario which you're trying to win a championship like not in a hawks environment is a problem unless he turns it around. And I think I got to see that that you can handle usage of both. Yeah.

Yeah. And I agree with that. I don't think you're crazy for having him at, what is it, 12 or whatever. Or call it 11 if you want to switch with that. Yeah, 11. But I did have him. He's clearly obviously in the next year. I think I agree with you.

No one should give him the opportunity. No one should want him to be the lead creator. And we gave him the opportunity to do that. And it led to not necessarily a disaster. But it wasn't a good time against the Nix. And we saw him in his in between half-port game, just really, like, struggle and that's not developed. But I obviously love him as a player because without him, bro, like, this organization is literally in the trenches, you know, we're with the Chicago Bulls and the Milwaukee Bucks in terms of just, like, doing a whole lot of nothing.

He's done them but get better every single year. And you just throw him on a basketball course. And I think, unlike someone like Powell and Garrow, he's going to find ways to be valuable. A couple of years ago, it was his defense. It was his rebounding. And we did see him throw, like, a couple fast he passes and be able to run offense through him, which is rare. you know and yes like you don't want him to literally be the lead creator there's only one guy in this whole entire list who i think we can conventy say he can be a lead creator on this team you know

and we draft to kingston kingston flemings and i think he's going to be great for us and i think seeing jail and johnson hopefully be tasked less when it comes to creating in the uh in the half court will obviously or hopefully like attribute to his defense and have that like get a little bit a little bit bit better because there's no excuse for that at all. If you're not going to like be an elite or at least like a average, can you be like Tobias Harris level of half court creation? We're talking different about you a little bit. But you can't struggle in that and also be, look like you're concussed defensively. Just be overly tired. I think he's concussed defensively. And to your point, there's only one guy that can be a lead creator. That's the thing is that his main value is lead

creator stuff. And we appreciate that. And that's every time a team is a little better than we think, we're going to give the credit to the guy that does the lead creator stuff. And like you mentioned, a half court offense wasn't there. Thank God for C.J. McCollum and to kill Alexander Walker in the second half of the season blowing up. Jalen Johnson gets all the credit because he's the all-star. He's a part of a bigger piece to me more than a typical first-time All-Star on a surprisingly good team. That he'll get the credit because that's how it goes with especially teams that people don't pay attention to as much. They just funnel the credit to the All-Star guy.

That was very much a team environment type of thing with the Hawks last year. And a shout-up to him. Obviously, he plays an important part, not saying he's not a part of it. That alone doesn't give me, I don't feel the need to like automatically give them that credit that some people might. And yeah, well, I agree. Only one guy can be the league ball handler on this list. That's why the secondary stuff matters to me so much. And I think guys like Jaron, Lowry, Aaron Gordon, et cetera, just provide more value there.

Yeah. And I feel confident in him like doing that again because I literally seen it happen before. That's what he got for like minutes is two or three years ago with the Hawks. And when it comes to creating stuff too, I think he's like you a unique creator because he's not like Pala and Carrow when it comes up. absorbing that much usage. He doesn't pound the rock to wait and see what happens and observes a field. He's a fast processor. So I think no matter who he plays with, he's always, he's always going to slot in perfectly because he's not commanding overly attention. He's not like literally, it doesn't take him 10 years to make a decision or all. It's 0.5 seconds,

you know? And that's like, that's a valuable type of creator, you know? Oh, it's, yeah, especially when the idea of like you want to get a star guard or whatever, like the idea of him going into a role that fits, next to those guys. Yeah, you need someone that makes fast decisions and that's incredibly valuable.

So I think I'm with you that I expect him to get higher. I'm just not automatic. I guess sometimes when somebody makes their first leap, it's like, we got to like swarm them with credit.

And I think it's an incomplete product. I do think next year maybe he'll continue to build on that and get to the point that I don't disagree with you guys on the trajectory he's on. I think he showed that he's on this trajectory

but not ready to do it at the highest level at all yet. I guess the only thing that leads me to be a little bit happier is that the jump shot did get. better. And as the season went on, he finished out shooting like 36% from the three point line, which is like not great, obviously, but it's very, very good and more promising to see him

and believe that he would be viable next to any star lead card or maybe we already have him. He's just not there in Kingston Fleming. He'll be good regardless. For sure. And I think you know, around February last year when we were first oozing over the Jalen Johnson leap, I would have agreed with y'all. I just think over the course of season, as we see more of him, see him in a playoff environment, which like anybody, I'm not holding that against him entirely. I'm never going to be one to be like, you sucked in the playoffs. But in his specific instance, it does matter, I think, as we're seeing him the first time, get used to that role.

And it's just data points that I think that we got a little bit over our skis of the leap because it was so fun and such a unique, fun type of player that just calmed down a little bit in as far as giving him the credit for being at that level already. Yeah, that's fair. I will say too also. I completely forgot to rank Colin Murray Bowles, right? Yeah, he's awesome. Yeah, shout out.

I put him next to Draymond Green. I think Dr. Dr.remon Green's chain doesn't snatch as the best unique power forward at that type of defense passing thing. Murray Boyle is here and he's a better version now. I would firmly have him right here at 13 too, right?

Yeah, he's so good. He's the best role player on this list. I think 12 is where we start the, you know, going into All-Star caliber guys if you want to give him that credit. Murray Boyle's is the best role player at the Power 4 position.

Yeah, I agree. All right, moving on. Next, at 15, I have PJ Washington. 14, Nas Reid. Last year of guys who can just like pass triple shoot and all that. Next tier, of course, is the All-Star-ish range.

13 I have Julius Randall, 12, Paul Bencaro, and 11 of Zion Williamson. This is probation tier. How did we feel about Zion off the last year? Because he fell into irrelevancy because the Pelicans are obviously a joke for a franchise and nobody talks about him anymore because they also gave him less

usage, less minutes, all this stuff. This is the lowest you've ever ranked him, I'm assuming. Yes. You feel down on the Zion Williamson experiment? Yes. Probably should. Of course it's like encouraging to see that he had nice healthier. This is the healthiest that he's looked didn't miss too much time because of any major injuries or whatever

it's just disappointing to know that we're in what year seven or something like that for zion and there's literally nothing that's changed about his game at all like the strengths are still there but what sucks is that the strengths don't hit as hard as it once did his second year he averts 27 points per game and obviously like i know since then they went from coach to coach had hella trades and all that they don't have necessarily the best center next to them to feed off of this game, which is a very fair context. But I'm looking at you as an individual. Through all the context, I'm looking at you,

and you have not grown at all. Of course, like you've gotten your body healthier and all that. The playmaking, I'm sure, it's still there somewhere. You're just not prioritized with that task at all. But can you give me 10 rebounds a game? Can you give me eight rebounds of something like that? Can you at least, like, show some signs defensively? And every single time he said, no, no, no, and no to every answer.

Yeah. I see your sentiment. if he would have grown, he would have been number two on this list. So I don't need him to grow. He is what he is. And he's like an insane offensive player that I think can be fine defensively in a good defensive environment next year room protector. I put him higher than you.

He's clearly, you already saw my tier. He's in my next tier. I think this is the year we had to take him at face value and say he is what he is and evaluate him through the scope of you're on this ridiculous team. And let's kind of like try to take away what we know we can take away. And still give him credit for what he does well and doesn't do well, which doesn't protect the rim

isn't a consistent rebounding force but is still an insanely efficient score and a very good playmaker and like a weapon at that power forward position I gave him, I value that and I think he's another guy that needs to be saved to some regard that needs to be on a team

that makes a little bit of sense. But I didn't put him top five or anything. I don't think he's like two or three like we thought he could have been but I do think he's more valuable than the reputation on this irrelevant as team would make us think. Yeah, I think seeing him this year

it did give me a little bit of hope that he can be safe. Like we were talking a lot about at the deadline like, oh, he should go to the bulls. Or like, you know, you should, you should pair him up with, with an actual point guard and see, see what, what else can happen because I, yeah, because obviously it's like in New Orleans, it's not going to happen. And it's not 100% his fault because, again, the team sucks. But I've given up, I've given up hope for a long time that he can be the guy, like

the franchise guy. I don't, as in like top 10 player in the world. Yeah. Not in the conversation. No. So what is the conversation you know? Essentially, can he be somebody's like Pascal Seaccom? Yes, I agree.

You know, like can he be this number two option that that can play alongside a lead creator that can do some playmaking, right? I don't need it. At times, we can fully lean into point Zion, and that's going to be a really fun wrinkle. But it's not something that we're going to build our entire offense around. We're going to get him a lot. get him going downhill. We're going to have some spacing around it. But the, the idea of Zion also in that role, like, Pascal can still defend. Zion can't do that. And like, like, can he not do that

or can he not do it in the pelicans? I'm not sure. He hasn't, he hasn't been a great defender. No, I'm not saying great for sure. I'm for sure. Since college. Yeah, he hasn't been an, engaged defender for years now. And I do think that for somebody that moves the, but moves the way that he does and is starting to to get into this section of of his career. I'm not sure that we're going to see Zion be moving side to side, you know, rotating it, rotating over to get these weak side blocks, which somebody who has the athleticism that he does, that's the role that I want him. I've never, I've never thought that like Zion's going to be some, some crazy stupid, like,

on ball defender or some, you know, like, I'm going to put my anchor down. I'm going to lock you up in the post. I need you to do the stuff that you were doing at Duke. can basically come from the other side of the baseline and block a shot. That's that's a type of defense. Right. That's what I need from him. And he's never,

he hasn't, you know, shown that in a couple years. So I understand I have him higher than Mo, but I do understand having him outside the top. Yeah, you can't, none of us call him crazy for doubting Zion Williams.

And it's pretty easy to ride off Zion. And history says you're probably, it's probably going to age well to not bet on Zion having a good bounce back season next year because he's on the Pelicans. So definitely not saying it's crazy at all. I don't think you're right We shouldn't predict him To ever be like a plus defender

He's shown us nothing to think that I think he could be fine And survivable and it not be a talking point That he's sinking your defense If he's not a good team With a good rim protector And like in that I think the Pascal Seachan role

You describe is exactly what I want to see From his eye on That it probably isn't even because of his abilities Probably because his body Can't hold up with that usage That I don't want to see him Be that top 10 player in the world caliber type of output

Because it's not going to be sustainable He showed he's not good enough for that He's not improving enough for that That I don't have any hopes for that I do want to see him be a super sidekick, though. And I do have a lot of faith that he can be, like, as good or better than Pascal Seaccom if he was in his shoes. That's so sad, man.

I was, I was all in on Zion when he came into the league. The whole world was. Like, the whole world thought that he was going to be, like, the guy in just the face of basketball for the next 10 years. Have y'all seen his college highlights recently? Not recently. It was different. Dude, it's like watching 09 LeBron.

You know what's crazy this past year? He was also moving pretty goddamn great. Yeah. It got rode off because nobody was watching them because the Pelican sucked and the team is ridiculous, had the worst coach in the league fired him. It's a complete shit show. He stayed healthy and once again had a lower usage because they decided to put the ball in their young guys' hands and try to do this. Everybody eats offense.

So the numbers aren't as flashy and the minutes are down. Insanely efficient like he always has been. The points raw output like per 75 are down in volume, still crazy efficient. I do think that he still very much has it in him that if he was on a team this past year that wanted him to put up those big numbers because their coach decided our path to victory is points Ion putting up dumb numbers. I don't think he's lost steps athletically to where he can't do that. Yeah.

The only, yeah, I think the only thing is probably just like the, the self-rebounded. And like when he first, when he first came in, basically every shot that he missed, he's going to get his own rebound. And those second chances aren't there as much. And so I also think like that's, that's also why he's down points-wise. But like, the moving, the moving well, you can. You can see it though. Like you can see the difference in the in the way that he jumps in.

Obviously he's still one of the the baseline for where he was when he came in. It's like this is one of the greatest athletes that we've ever seen. So him at, you know, 70% is still better than everybody else. And I'm never going to blame him for tanking whatever defense. They were having lineups with him and Derek Queen. Like that was never going to work. You still have Tray Murphy on the team like nobody's clearly bought into this. So that's not 100% on him.

But he should be saved. Yeah, but to never show it is like, I'm looking at him. We're talking about playing with another created. He needs to be a clipper. Like him and Darius Garland, I think would be fun. That's a perfect type of disaster. They honestly need. I got to see him with a big, though.

I don't want to, I want to see him next to a strong defensive big so we can get a good idea what he looks like in a good ecosystem. I'm tired of seeing him play with nobody's at center. That's been the whole story of his career. And I do think that he, as far as defensive reputation is, victim of a circumstance in that direction. This motherfucker, when he was at his best playing in the playoffs, are like trying to make runs.

Actually wasn't a playoffs. He got hurt. But playing on playup caliber teams, they had his ass next to Yonis. He's never been in a good situation with the defensive big. Like it's always been ridiculous. Is there any team right now

that he could, in terms of like having a defensive big? Yeah, we talked about it last year before the trade deadline and everything came. I wanted him to be in Yonis'is' issues going to the heat. Him and Bam would be awesome together. That was the perfect team for him.

But now that's gone. He needs to get bought out, go to Minnesota. Trailblazers. They have Danny. so it's a little complicated, but I think him next to clinging could be a good duo for him.

The boosers on the grizzlies now. I mean, him next to Gobert and the Timberwolves would be awesome, but they obviously made the Lamella move. Fucking filthy, yeah. They win the fucking finals. That'd be crazy.

I think, yeah, I, bro, I know what can never happen, but him and Wembe would be, like, the best pairing in the goddamn world. They can call up today and say,

give us Zion for Fox, and it can happen. But do you know who's on the phone? It's Do Doe Mars. You tell you go to fucking hell. Give me Doe Harper. Yeah. Yeah.

But no, one being him would be, they would win the finals three times in a row. If they're healthy, it'd be insane. The best defensive big he's played with was Stephen Adams. Stephen Adams had that one year, I forget. Yeah. Just mad forgettable, but he was good alongside of him. And his efficiency was out the fucking roof, too. But still, like, it's, I agree with you guys.

It's disappointing. I know he has all the talent in the world, but him as an individual. I'm taking him for what he is. And now, my, okay, officially, I don't think you'll ever be, like, top 10 player in the world. top 15 or anything like that. Yeah. Yeah.

Top 10 in the world is not happening. Yeah, not happening. And if that was happening, we still have him at two or three. So I think there's a middle ground between that and 11. But, well, I'll see who you have right above him. I'm sure it's understandable. Yeah. All right, Donovan.

At 15, Tobias. At 14, Jabari Smith Jr. 13, CNB, 12, Draymond. And at 11, Larry Marketing. 11 Larry Marketing. Okay. I think you have him the lowest side of all of us. Probably.

I'm kind of nervous. Why do you hate Finland? That's my bad. I've never been over there. You need to learn. They racist over there anyways. Really? I don't know.

It's like, what if they're like insanely progressive? I know. I know. I'm going to go, is Finland racist? Yeah,

for Lowry, the last, I mean, the last couple years, forget the games played. I know that the games played for him is obviously a product of the jazz

being unsirious and tanking and doing all this stuff. But even whenever he's been there, it's like, if you want to call it, a product of like bad rhythm because you are playing so little games okay he hasn't shot the way that you would think Lowry should shoot right he hasn't shot 40% and I think those having that happen in back to back years is something that is just a little bit bit concerning for for me and

right now he's always the the talk like we get to January we get to February and we this contenders should go out and get Larry like he's going to fit perfect. He's going to fit perfect. I do think the idea of him and if he is on a good team, which this, this upcoming season, we should see that with Utah. Like, we all expect them to be an actual competent team from start to finish, especially with the new rules. But I want to see his three-point shot fall a little bit more. And this is completely just like made, made up. He hasn't shown like true, true signs of this. It's just a thought. What if, he just wasted, you know, these last, these last couple years where he's approaching,

he's approaching 30, he's played on these bad teams and all of a sudden, the guy that we all thought could, you know, go on to any team and be, and be like this caliber of player, what if life is just passing by? Like, you know, like, I don't know. Like, I'm, I just, I just feel that way because also he's never, he's never been, he's never been super, super reliable, like in terms of games, games played, whether it's been in Cleveland or in Chicago and now that again it's different because it's Utah but

that's also another thing is like the availability and now the three point shot is kind of waning I'm just I'm just kind of curious this is good hate because he prefaced it in an understandable way in a compassionate way and then proceeded to make up negative fan fiction yeah what if what if what if he just gets hit by a car I don't know man I gotta put him a 12 life's past him by

what if he loses his foot he might be 32 I mean his shot listen if you He has two years in his career where he actually has shot 39% from three. Every other year, it's just been regular. Sure. And so, like, if you think, if you think that the situation around him is going to be so much better this year, that that's, that's going to get back to normal. That's cool. If he comes back this year and he's shooting 35% from three, that I think that the way that everybody does look at Lowry, I think that it does have to change.

And we have two years of evidence for that. To be fair, his value isn't as simple, I think, is just, is a three-point shot. hitting at 40 to 35. Even at 35, he was still an insane offensive player last year because he's so good at driving off of that. The shot quality and shot versatility he takes, very difficult shots in very versatile ways, can run off screens,

can take it hand off, can pick and pop, can hit the corners, hit above the arc. It's the versatility and how even if he is shooting at 35, the gravity is going to be insane and that opens up his drives, and that's why he's such a constantly impactful in terms of plus minus and the advanced numbers. He still has 60% shooting despite the three-point shot

not being good because he shoots 70% the rim and gets the free throw line that you're probably right he probably is like a 37% three point shooter at best because the shot difficulty is so high that doesn't stop me from thinking he's the level of player we think he is because yeah what for those stretches where he shoots 42% like he did the start last season he looks like god he does not it's not it's not you have you have the you have the shot thing he's not an amazing defender at all not at all and so or passer and so it really is very streamlined in terms of your your production comes offensively now There's a lot of guys and there's people that are higher on this list that their offense.

We talk about Jaylon Johnson. Your value comes as an offensive player. And that's okay. So you can be higher. I'm not ruling him out there. But I do think that for him, that's just something where as we start to get up the list on this ranking, he's right there at a level. And that's fair. You know why I, everything you're saying is valid downsize to his game.

The plus size to why it doesn't bother me. Because normally if I told you, I love that. power forward who doesn't protect the rim and doesn't playmate at all. You're like, what the hell? He sounds like somebody you'd hate. He scores the 27.4 points for 75 on 60% shooting, which is obviously very good. Only on ball 10% of the time versus I'm who's 19, for example, doesn't need the ball in his hands at all.

He's like Clay Thompson that way. That he runs around, creates scores like a all-star score caliber without touching the ball. That is so unique and valuable to playing with other good players. So now he can play with a Jaron and a Darren Peterson and a Keontte-George and still get his crazy numbers because he doesn't need to pound the rock and dominate it. That's why his offensive impact is so high because he's not taken away from other people like most volume scores do. There's a reason the whole only one ball to go around thing

exists because normally if you're a volume score, you make it so another guy can't be. He's the complete opposite and doesn't turn the ball over, which is because he doesn't playmake as much. To be a high level score, it doesn't turn the ball over it is also pretty rare. Very unique player that you're right to pinpoint the weaknesses, but I think he has unique strengths that make them not matter to me as much as they would for other guys. Yeah, I agree. And I think Something about Larry Markin, marketing is that throughout the entirety of this career, except for one year, is that he played with no good players at all pretty much. He played with one All-Star, and that was All-Star Darius Garland back when he was in Cleveland. And I wholeheartedly believe that the second that he has, like, someone like Darren Peterson, and when he finds his stride and Keontay, George, Forrest, who's a good player, but he's not an All-Star, hasn't established himself fully yet at all.

once he has like other exotic shit happening on the court for him, his efficiency is going to go dumb. And everything's going to come to him a lot easier. Now, we'll say this. While that is a positive, I also feel like sometimes we slightly overrate him a little bit, only because he's been playing like,

he's been damned by Utah and he hasn't been put on like or tested on similar stages, obviously as like someone like Jalen Johnson, the second that we do feel like in maybe a year from now or whatever, Darren Peterson is great. And they're able to be like a 5C or something like that. The second he's in an impactful playoff series. He's never played in the playoffs. Yeah, exactly.

We see how he's just super like one dimensional. He's falling on this list. I can assume that. But we're giving him a lot of grace because he hasn't been tested yet. Or, yeah, he hasn't been tested. And he could be great in the playoffs. We don't know. Sure.

Yeah. And all of this. Honestly, I'm glad you brought that up because that leads to a larger point that basically every big man is victim to circumstance in some way, counting power forwards and centers. And for everybody on this list, we talked about it with Mom. when we talked about with John Collins, Larry, Zion, there has to be some element of analyzing what they do well

and what the weaknesses is and putting that up against their situation because the ball is not always in their hands and they don't always have control over these things. That's always going to be a thing is we can always choose to view that in a positive or a negative way with literally every person on this list, unless they are lead ball handlers in which we can say, you play some more part in that, like a Palo Bancaro or Jalen Johnson or Janus,

or I guess Zion, ball handler. Most of these guys are going to have to kind of decide if we're going to take the positive or negative view on guys that clearly are not bigger than their circumstance. Everything they're around them matters because they're not ball handlers. Yeah.

And I think with that logic, if I'm starting a team today and we're doing a fantasy draft and I was able to start my team with an Anthony Edwards or a Shea or whatever it is that I feel like I can build a contender right now around a dynamic guard and I'm getting to the second round of that draft

and I can draft his secondary big to pair with him offensively and I'm looking at Jalen Johnson, Lowry Markening and whoever else, I'm picking Lowry. Because I think he fits that role better than almost anybody. I'm assuming I also control this team and I can give him a good rim protector,

some good defenders, playmakers, like build a regular team. I think the ceiling of having Lowry as your sidekick is insanely high. Okay. That's very fair to say. And if Darren Peterson is Devin Booker, we'll see that in about three years

in Larry Markman is 33. Yeah. And his game should age great. The world's going to pass him by. It is. Like, we legitimately are talking about the best case scenario for him when he's 30.

And you can take Danny Hage for that. that for holding on to him for dear life like he's his son. And that's what it's not his fault. He's in this position. That's a different combo. There's nothing to do with his ranking, but that is an annoying combo for sure. Nothing to do with his abilities on this rank to me. But that does suck ass for the story of laughing marketing.

It's not great. He's honestly. Honestly, it, listen, he's been, he has been compensated for, for the crimes well enough. Is he like just finish Zach Levine right now? No, he's a lot better than that. Zach Levine is like not measurably good in many ways. They have literally the exact same strengths and weaknesses.

Yeah, but I mean, if we get, no, no. Modern market is much better. No, but they have the same strengths and weakness. They don't talk about it. No, they don't. Like, they haven't played me. Football basketball, they're both not good defenders at all. They're not playmakers.

I mean, sure, if you want to talk about liar marketing and rebounding, he's big. You're going to make a sland and he does not do this. No, I mean, what does, literally. I mean, Zach Levine does have a little bit more on-ball stuff to his game and he's a fine off-ball player too. But, like. Doing all those things at seven foot versus six, and Zach Levine is an even worse defender. There's levels.

There's levels. I don't want to get into Zach Levine Hattrow. There's levels. No, trust me, there's levels. We're going to get into Zach Levine's sock, so I don't want to do that today. There's levels and everything about them. What if Lauer does get into the playoffs?

He just cats. That's very real. He could also get the effemoly hammer. It'll be worse than him. There's a lot of great defenders where that very much could happen. He's definitely like, because like we said, we're talking about him as an off ball player.

There's certainly a world. in which it looks like he's a bum because his guard gets clamped because the airfishing is a rookie and he gets put in the Lou Dort torture chamber or Kason Wallace torture chamber now and all of a sudden it falls apart super possible he's a high variance player for sure he can't scale up I guess with the ball in his hands which could be a reason to ding him for sure but also if he could if he could ball handle a scale up he's a scale up he can't scale up he can't scale up he can't scale up he can't scale up he can't scale up he can't scale up he's he can't scale up he's he can't scale up he's be the second best by far so i think we're appropriately putting it in already because he would just be kevin-dranne offensively if he could dribble oh man he would be ridiculous let me see it man no you won't see because he's not kevin dera ran all right time for the top 10 donovan 10 erin gordon nine jaron jaron jordan jordan jordan jordan johnson wow um yeah i i i think for for erin gordon obviously the health stuff is just it's piling up and it's starting to make me very very nervous if he was healthy even just this last year he would be above jaron he would be above zion

potentially even above siakum for me but it's just starting to be something where it's like dang is are we going to be able to get another healthy playoff run are we going to be able to have another healthy season from from erin i'm not i'm not sure but he still is insanely valuable he still is a very, very keycog and everything that Denver does. He can play on every team in the league. His archetype is the archetype that a lot of people are looking for. So he should still be

in the top ten. They're looking for him. They love him. So yeah, there's that. Jerry Jackson, Zion. Maybe you can put him higher. That's personal preference. That's personal. Yeah. That's beef against me and him. That's just it. I don't really love the way

that they hoop. And as we've talked about, it. If I did, if I redid this, I would put Siakum above Jalen Johnson. Yeah, fair. Okay. So let's just, let's just switch that in our heads right now. So then you put Seacquist Jalen Johnson rightfully. Then after that, it's just guys that you fucking hate with all your heart that are behind Jalen Johnson? Fair. Besides Aaron Gordon. I'm talking about Zon Williamson and Jaron. Yeah. Fair. Fair. Yeah. And then those are guys are comparable, but he hates their fucking guts. So it makes sense why you put Jail and Johnson above them.

Okay. I like their guts. No, it's just They're good guts. All right. Next. You don't rebound, man. It's just crazy. Ridiculous.

Wow. Okay. Who's grabbing rebounds on the team now? I wish they had Kessler to do it. Exactly. Now, I'm happy they don't. Walker is gone. Nirkich.

Nurchase rebound. Larry Dempsey. Hey, I love this. Larry A day, man. Oh, my God. Harry damn should not do me. Yeah. Nirkish is a solid rebounder.

Yeah, who is right? And, and. It's by committee. And Larry doesn't do it. He doesn't do it. He doesn't have pride, And Lowry's in the small forward Lowry as a small forward

That's a good rebounder So I think they'll be rebonding by committee I think it'll be fine Or Jaron as a small forward That's a solid rebounder four or three You got three guys who are good rebounds as As small forward Well, Nirkish is a good rebounder

Come here I'm not saying if they win the finals But like the rebounding will be all right I'm not saying it's a great team now With Kessler I was hype With Kessler having that size Of him and Jaron blocking shots Lowry being this gigantic shooter around them, I was hype.

But Nerkich, I'm like, okay, it'll be cute. But now you got this line. Yeah, this line up is. So it's kind of fun to have those big wings cutting and Nurtish is a hub. I think it's still be fun. Yeah, they're going to be fun as fuck. Yeah. The other stuff is, it really is just the rebounding.

Yeah. You got two bigs who just aren't interested in that. The defenses is going to be fired. I don't know. As time goes on, I think I care less, a little less about the rebounding, but their defenses is. I can't. When it gets compounded for those two, it's like, dang. I know what you just.

saying but those two together two lackluster power four rebunters together makes it fine because like now you have three seven foot bodies out they're grabbing boards they'll be fine yeah what if they don't is this my thing because they they've been they've been seven footers they're their their entire and they haven't played with each other plus nerchage like i agree in a vacuum but i think they kind of cancel that you if you give a nark you some credit most of small for it's got four rebounds a game because they're six five like you just average 10 rebounds in they'll be fine you never is a very that's all he does is rebound and pass. We can give him that.

Yeah. He'll be all right. He's cool. That's a rebounder. You don't talk about room protection. Jared, you better lock the fuck up. How many minutes did the Nerkins play last year? I don't know.

Kester was dead. What do you mean? He had to play all of them. Kessler was dead for the five games. How much, yeah. Yeah, but listen, Nerkerskin play.

For 22 minutes again? That's actually 10 and 26 minutes again. That's a lot. Yeah, it's fine. Philipowski there to fill up some minutes to center two. Jaron isn't play center two. Jaron and Lauer Minnets. It's like,

Nerkich getting 26 minutes is cool It'll be fine I'm gonna get that fried man Now offensively Nerkish We'll see if you can do jack shit But defensively and rebounding they'll be alright I agree All right

Who's up next Next up I got Javier He's above those guys We're in probation right now True Nine Larry Marketing Damn Yeah that's rude

All right Nine Larry Marketing Eight Jalen Johnson 7 Jaron Jackson Jr. And six I have Aaron Gordon. Did you already rank Zion? Yeah, already did. I had him at 11. He's on probation, right? Him, Paulo, and Julius Randall, all not the same guys. They're in probation for the different reasons. I'm happiest the most about where I ranked Aaron Gordon because, of course,

injury stuff is very fair and I cannot argue against that. But knowing that, okay, through all that, you know last season first game of the year this motherfucker had 50 points made 10 3-pointers and over the course of the last few years two years specifically this dude literally just elevated

shooting to a completely new level It's been a hundred games since then yeah dude I had a great year all around though before the injuries Eric Gordon's numbers are nuts You know what I love about him? Game one

yes yes you know that's real man that's real that's real what's ratings man It's throwback, bro.

He's on his d'nit crazy. That's hilarious. But bro, bro, bro, bro, bro, bro. Let's come back. Let's come back. Just getting his eagle on. Of all these guys here in this tier, he's the most well-rounded,

and there's not a singular thing outside of obviously health that you can ding him for. Now, the health stuff again, like, that's a huge thing. And for him, I'm walking to next season with the best faith ever possible that he'll be okay and he can at least give us a few more years of being the most complete power forward, complimentary power forward in the entire league. Wildly efficient. Look at these numbers. Oh my goodness. No, it's crazy. And that's why, but everything is green except for one number, the minutes play. And so if you can get Aaron Gordon

on the floor consistently, there's no doubt in anybody's mind where he's at. I think, and even if it was just one year, then that's something different. This is a two-year sample size where he has been hurt for a big part of the season. And it has not only impacted where the nuggets have been in the standings, but it's also impacted the playoff runs and the fact that they go from having an actual rotation to six and a half guys. And they have to make a hamstring for him in the back. Because he can't.

3D. Pressing and ACL. Because he can't jump. That's a problem. We got an Achilles coming from fucking China. ready for you. And that bitch was not good too. That shit was from Timo, bro.

We got a Timo calf muscle. Yeah. Listen, that's what Daniel Jones's guys at Duke made him a cast. Yeah. They 3D printed him a cast. And then his leg exploded. And they tore the kid. Yeah. That's a son. He got a soothing, motherfucker. Yeah. Yeah.

You're right. Aaron Gordon, his availability is a problem. I also choose not to account for health in this and just do ability. But if that, like we mentioned over the time, Donovan that matters to you a lot. Very valid reason to dig him. I would say maybe you should ding him more for that if you're going to go that route. Because he's super, his health is a super problem. Yeah.

So I think you either put him like 15 or 6. I mean, at 11 is, is Lowry too. Like, like, yeah. And you hate every power for it. I'm thinking about it. Me? No, him. This is not his position.

I mean, okay, something for Lowry a little bit, too, is that he is employed by Utah and they do do sketchy things on. Even the years before that, he's not playing like,

he's not playing like 65 against 70 games. Like that's not, he's never played 70 games once in his career. You know, Larry's also not getting major minutes throughout his career. No, I understand.

I get in that, that's, you made it clear as something that matters to you, so it's very understandable. Yeah. Let's make it clear that you don't like him. Yeah,

this is not a position. He hates the honest to you. Power for is not his list. He hates all these motherfuckers. I hate, listen, I hate yonis because of the way that he moved, though. Yeah, I didn't say him the same reasons. He had a lot of reasons for you. They'd be acting up, bro.

He's talking about him like he's a love island island. That is, he's a picky guy. He has a lot of need from his NBA players. I just don't like his game. Like, I just hate the way he moves. He's high maintenance. Simon, truth. Donovan's a very high maintenance fan to get your respect.

Takes a lot, man. You got to earn these jersey purchases. Everybody out here. Every two weeks. Oh, my God. The leap is here. Yeah, all right. 10, I have Lari Markman.

Nine, Jaron Jackson, Jr. Man, this guy, Larry, one spot ahead of me. Good work. I love that. No, we were talking about Relative to Jalen Johnson. We were talking to those convos about Larry.

I didn't say you had him too low. Eight, Aaron Gordon, seven, Pascal Seaccombe, and six, Zion Williamson. Finally, bingo. Let's go. Hell yes. So, yeah, I think, I'm very happy you mentioned the Seaccom thing

for Zion as a comparison. That's exactly. I want him to be actually. I want him to be Seaco and I think he'd be a little bit better. So that's why I linked them together. I think totally, again, for all these power fours,

your situation, many of you are horribly miscast and I'm going to try to not just react to what we're seeing because the point is to evaluate you and talk about what you in a vacuum. Williamson, your miscast, marketing your miscast,

all up and down the line. These are guys that I'd very much want as like premier complimentary players to my lead offensive creators. You're running a powerful consulting firm. Yeah. Let's get you,

guys right. Shipp you different countries. Okay. Or different cities. That's the way to fix it. Send him to the Puerto Rico League. He dropped 60 at night. Dude, he's wilt.

Yeah, I think second option is on, which second option to get is too simple. They wouldn't know what to do with them. Man. Imagine him and buggy in the Puerto Rican league. Bro. The other government would think that these guys are aliens. Zon is an alien. Can you imagine all different Zon's life would be?

And I use that word very specifically. His entire life, if he was the one playing in the past several years with Miles Turner and Tyrese Halliburton and good wing defenders. Yeah. His entire life would be different. He'd be so famous and have so much less hatred for him. Now, he's still to be healthy, obviously, which is a different thing. His life in general and his positioning in this world would be different if he was destined to play

with Halliburton and Miles Turner instead of these random motherfuckers he plays with the New Orleans. Yeah, they're going to make him run. Yeah, up and down, he's going to be suicides. Thanks. In shape. But, like, his lot in life is part his fault because he's number one pick. he's supposed to be the franchise savior. He's not that.

We're past that. Now you are like many players, a part of your circumstance defines you, and you really can't have less points for you in your circumstance than Ziland does right now. He'd just be Super Soldier Obi Topping. That'd be awesome. That'd be sick.

That's an all-star. If you could shoot too. Yeah. If you could shoot your Charles Barkley, we don't need that. Aaron Gordon, Jaron Jackson, and Lion Marketing,

same trio of tears to me. I think Aaron Gordon is just as valuable as these guys who've made that all-star appearance of the role. but all three of them are like those exact power forwards I want next to my all-star guards. Yeah, I agree. And then Siakman's on, I think, can do a little bit more than that. I think Gordon, Jaron, Markinen, just be, I don't care if you fall apart in the playoffs

because your responsibility is not what defines his team. That's On Shea and Luca and Anthony Edwards. Siakman's on, I think they can do a little bit more for a limited guard like a Tyrese Halliburton. I think they'll be guys that create a little bit more. Yeah, I agree. And in the world where like these guys, going back to what you said, like their responsibility, the responsibility of them is not defined by like if the series is going to

if they can win or lose the series that's on the upper tier guys but for Zion or Siakum like we damn near had conversations about Seacom being finals MVP if they would have won he didn't win the Eastern Conference Finals MVP too so different levels exactly those guys can give us 30 and can be like

important creators I don't care at all what Jared and Larry do I mean I care they can't shut the bed obviously but like I'm not looking to them to be like the lights were too bright for Jared Jackson Jr like I don't want the ball on his hands like that yeah Fair It'll be Darren Peterson

The lights better not be too bright Because you're supposed to be the guy Can't be too bright Because Jaron and Lowry They don't got you They don't got you at all Yeah Larry should be able to get me a little bit

Yeah The way they'd be talking about Laurie There he goes I mean I don't blame you though I don't blame you at all Like he's the most of the narrative He's making it for sure What he does

Like who is the Lorry fan that you're talking about. Okay. I don't feel like I'm making a demon. We have, we have discussed Lowry as the like missing piece to like eight teams over the last three years.

Yeah, and that's about the 10th best power forward. I had him at 11. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. There's no demons here. We were locked stuff. But he just hasn't been tested for a lot of,

Larry at all. Yes. What's like irritating because everyone else is. I'm here to do the test. Yeah. The judge is here. Right now.

Judge three and execution. That's me. Yeah. Right now. I'm sitting at the optical course. Lowry, come play me. Let's do something. You're like, I live in 11.

No one has static but you. Your place is fine. Put it in the big three. Like, let's see a tournament, like anything. Let me see you golf in the in season tournament. That's fair. Yeah, that's a tier of player.

That's a tier of player that like every team gets better with a Gordon Jackson marketing, I think. Yeah. Premier championship tilting type of player. I'm like, man. Lowry could have got traded to the spurs next to Wemby. If Jared Jackson got traded to the Spurs next to Wemby?

I put Aaron Gore in any situation with any contender or any just middling team. It's always loud. Can you imagine A.G. next to Luca or A.G. next to Wemby? And we're picking these teams

because these are teams that have been in the market for like the next guys and everyone's, how was Wemby going to get to the championship? I was looking at the championship. All these guys would have been the best answers

you could possibly have. Yeah, he would change K. Cunningham's fucking life, bro. Oh my God. Lowry on the Pistons. It would be different. Jared. Jared on the Pistons.

Jared on the Pistons, I don't want to see that one. No, Donovan, I take it back. It is them. The fanfix. He is the top of a combo right now. It's not exactly random. Could you imagine? I can't.

Actually, I can't. All right, time for the top five. Let's reveal everybody's list. See if we're all the same. Five of Evan Mobley. What the hell? Five of Evan Mobley. four Ogena Nobi, three Scotty Barnes, two Anthony Davis, one Janus.

I just thought it's what I fucking did, bro. What the fuck? Okay, so clearly I didn't rank Ogenitobi because I put him on my last year. But if I was, he would be obviously somewhere along here too. He's definitely, if you remember the four, he's a top four, top five, four in the league. But at five, I have Evan Moby, four, Siakum, three, Barnes, two, AD, and again, one, Janus. At five, I, yes, I'm five, I have AD. for Evan Mobley, three, Scotty Barnes, two, Janus, one OG.

I'm not even going to give bingo points because it'd be five points each. Yeah, whatever. A lot's happening for you. I'm more concerned for the audio listeners. It's bloners. Yeah, so this is the first year that we gave Anthony Davis' fucking ever-dying wish that when he sees a star at night, shooting across the Washington sky,

please let me be a power forward. Please let me be a power forward. It's July right now. You think he's still in Washington? Hell not. When he sees the quest of Los Lambs of the sky, please let me be a power forward.

Don't let the meanies put me back at center where I got to get hurt and make my shoulders turt. Now we put him at the power forward list to give him what he wants since it means so much to him. You think he's better than Scottie right now?

Reputation, bro. You know we haven't been in the cold. Not even reputation. If he's healthy, like yes. Is he going to be healthy? I don't know. Probably fucking not. But he wasn't,

he's not that much worse now than he once was. And we gauge them on different levels. So the PR is in the opposite. the direction because Scotty's coming from a lower place and I love what Scottie just did it probably was him like approaching AD levels I think in him like that reputation boost he got in the playoffs when he was extravagance I think AD would probably do similar things in his position on the raptors maybe but I also think like especially with Scotty's like the the playoffs stuff I do think

helped Scottie a lot but even during the during the regular season and this is the one positive that we can give Brandon Ingram is like the fact that you would were there and you were the one taking shots allowed, allowed Scottie to be in this, um, in a more secondary role. And not that it like completely changed his life because Scottie's always been a good defender. Yeah. But like can really, really hone in on doing all of the other things.

And so the defense that Scottie, that Scottie played this last year is and was like all defense cap caliber. Yeah. Yeah. And so that's what I'm saying. Like right now, that's why I do think that he has gotten to that level defensively. And that's why I think with that, with his availability, and even with his, with his offense a little bit, I do think that he is better than AD right now. Yeah, availability is the key there, I think, if you're going to cling that, and that's fine.

I can't be mad at you for holding availability against Anthony Davis. He plays 600 minutes last year. But it was also, like, complete bullshit. Like, I sat down for these teams and, like, it was like complete nonsense. So if I'm just riding off last year, it doesn't exist. I think he's pretty comfortably better offensively still than Scotty Barnes. at least as a score. Now, obviously, Scotty Barnes has done more playmaking

and is clearly a better playmaker than Anthony Davis. And that's the argument that I think I'll understand. If you want to say that you think Scottie Barnes passing makes him that much better, it's clearly close. I put them two and three. I definitely considered Scottie for that reason. I want to say if AD has an opportunity to be in his right role again, with a Trey Young and does DeBonsa to play off of as a play finisher,

I think he still has at least one more year in him, year in him of being a, like, top flight pick and roll partner that can be one of the most dominant role men. the league while being in a league and protector being equally as dominant defensively as Scottie Barnes that it goes back to the conversation we've had a lot of times that give me the amazing second option that doesn't need the ball in his hands as much versus the good creator that isn't like top flight in Scotty Barnes but the defense is so close and Scottie's so amazing there that I definitely think you can put Scotty it too yeah okay very

fair I think for me yo yeah Scotty Scottie Barnes being the second best power for in league that's something that I personally didn't foresee at all and I always be I have been the last about how I've not viewed him in the correct light throughout the regular season. And you want to say he's the second best power for in the league, that's perfectly fine because what he did obviously good, very good regular season, he should have been an all defensive team, absolutely. But what he did in the playoffs, to me, move so much and it confirmed every single belief

that anyone's ever had about Scotty Barnes and his potential as being a straight-up star and either the first or second best player on a championship team when it comes to impact. He's just liked that on every single level. and the jump shooting and how efficiently was in the pain and how he just was literally a complete nuisance for the Cleveland Cavaliers and gave Evan Mobley fits, give him belts,

gave him chancelas, everything, bro. Like, he's that, he's that. Yep. And he's clearly been better than Anthony Davis last year. Points for chanclas. Points for chanclas. He clearly loved, Scotty Barnes is clearly the second best

if we're just doing on what you proved does last year. No conversation. I just, AD has been in hell for the past 24 months. He played 600 minutes last year The wizard shut him down Didn't let him play Now he's probably trying to lead the Wizards

Get paid somewhere else Year before that he's playing solid Get shit for Luca Donchich Plays amazing insane basketball for one game Gets hurt that game For one half For one half gets hurt that game Gets that down

Rushes back to try to prove something Because he feels the pressure of being traded for Luca Donchish And the fact that Dallas Mavericks fans Don't want him Rushes back at the end of the 2025 season It's clearly not 100% But he's trying to be there

For the fan base And trying to prove something and get traded again, like, what is to be gleamed from that for our perception of Anthony Davis? So I'm kind of just assuming that he can't be what he was, obviously when he's at his best in 2023 or whatever.

It's going to be worse than that, but I'm still just assuming he has at least one more year of Anthony Davis. If we start next year and he doesn't look the same, the years have taken a toll, and he just can't move like that. I'll quickly within five games, say Scotty Barnes clears him.

Yeah, I agree. Anthony Davis doesn't have much of a lease at all right now. Yeah, I'm just not taking it from you because you haven't been able to lose it or gain it. You kind of have been in hell. Yeah, I agree. Honestly, I thought I was in a disrespect,

Evan Moby a little bit more and having been, like, 10 or something like that. But then as I just kept up going by... I wanted to do that, too. Yeah. Then you go to the other part for it. I said, Larry. I see Zion.

I see Jalen Johnson. And I'm just like, yo, the defense is still, like, so good and it doesn't go anywhere. I can't do it. Yeah. I look at him and Jalen. I'm like, how can I possibly say Mopley deserves to be lower? Like, he hasn't...

He hasn't fallen. off completely. We treat him like he's a bum. Like he deserves at least to be five. Yeah. Him versus OG was an interesting debate for me. Really? Yeah. That's not interesting to me at all. I think ODIs is firmly better. I guess. I mean, you would have put him one spot higher too. It's not like it's going to be a

mountainous difference. And I agree. I went four or five. But like they're close to each other for a reason. And OG, he's in the best circumstance possible. And I don't hold out against him because he's a part of the circumstance being so amazing. He holds a defense together. And it's ultimately why I went there. he can do more offensively as a shooter. But I do still firmly believe that like you mentioned earlier, every big is a victim of circumstance to some extent as not being the guy that can create.

I think if Mubli just fucking played the center, that we'd be talking a lot differently. That if Mowbly was a center and can do short role playmaking and can roll to the rim without another big there, not having to figure out the spacing, his three-point shot wouldn't matter as much. Like, quick, abrupt cut. I was mid-sentence about Evan Mowgli,

and we just realized our audio cutout, and we lost the last five minutes of conversation in which we just talked about Evan Mowgli, And I thought I just started the last thing you guys heard about him being able to move to center and clearly take a step up. Time to rehash all that. Okay. We spent about five minutes saying that. Damn, they missed it out.

We literally had this like superb plan about how we're going to slam out several guys. Yes. One of the guys being Jared Allen, another random guy who caught us straight in the Western Conference, Isaiah Hardinstein. Different reasons. Yeah, we got to slime out Jared Allen. And we got to move Evan Mowgli to center. He has to backdoor Jared Allen, get on the phone, find somebody that wants him. Because if I said this during the last five minutes,

there's two to me extremely clear, immediate like all-star level jumps that are available in the NBA. One, we referenced last episode. If Franz Wagner gets traded away from the magic and freed from Palo Bancaro, I think he can average five more points for game. Same for Evan Mobley. He immediately, if moves to center, I think,

goes from 18 and 8 man to 23 and 12 man, or 28 and 11 man, whatever it is, but he's not playing with the center, not having to worry about the spacing issues, the rebounds taken away from him, having to be a shooter now to accommodate another big. Part of it is obviously he has to earn the ability to play center and show the team he's ready for that physically.

But I think undoubtedly he'll go from getting criticized and not doing enough to being, oh, wow, 22 points per game, a DPO-wide level defense. Welcome back to Scottie Barnes conversations. Yeah, I agree. And going back to what you said about him being a center and whenever it is like super impactful and not even whenever it is super impactful.

Yeah, like a couple years ago we saw be super impactful. going back to what you said is during the Celtic series when Jared Allen just missed a lot of time. And then you mentioned footage cut out. But it was him and Donovan Mitchell just feasting. And his numbers were incredibly like they were just different. And it was like the best version of Evin Mobey that everyone thought we were end up, we're going to end up getting. And going if you look at his numbers, whenever he's playing at the rim or without Jared out, it all suggests that his efficiency literally at the rim. I tried to hate on him.

I can't, br. He got like 85% in the restricted area. He's just a bucking. He has great touch. But whenever you extend that a little bit and ask him to do power 40, sometimes look like a small 40 type things, it's ugly, you know? Yeah. Listen, if he does move to the center, I hope we can see the leap.

I'm tired of having theoretical conversations about Eminemobly. And I do feel like with the, with the calves, because they are kind of committed to this now, where they just gave DeMitch all this money. You told, you traded Garland for, for James. Hardin. You age yourself by 10 years and you know that like Hardin is going to be a part of this team. Everything is shaping up in this team, even though that they made the conference finals, I don't think anybody really feels like they were that close to, you know, to getting to the finals. And so there still does have to be another change. So maybe in like the second half of next

year, Allen gets traded at the at the deadline. They see if they can run it back one more time off of off of the strength that we did make into the conference finals. We see that we need to make another change, he goes away, and then you unlock Mobley in the second half of the year. I feel like that's something that, like, that timeline is probably the most realistic. Probably. We know it's fair. We're recording this on July 23rd, like I said, to start this episode.

The LeBron thing is still looming as of us recording this. A lot of people think he's going to choose the Cavs, obviously, is a going home thing. We've all the whole time talked about, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to go LeBron, Mobley, Allen, as your team next to two non-defensive guards. There's a world where this comes out in two weeks, and

they have signed LeBron and shipped Jared Allen out. Like that might already have happened by the time people are hearing this. Maybe. And if that did happen, I'm so happy forever, Mobley. LeBron and Mobley as our phone court is awesome for him specifically. Now, that's the perfect world. What if the social media manager from Miami? Or if they ruined everything.

Then we had to find a different way to backdoor Jared Allen. And as mostly call me, I have plans. Even worse, though, what if they stay ten-toe down and they bring Kaminga? Yeah, then we got a back-door Jared Allen. They may open some motherfucking space. And also backdoor Kaminga, too. Because that shit ain't working out. Yeah, I'm a little curious why he's linked to them so hard.

Like, they can't offer that much money. I guess maybe if they miss on LeBron, they're going to make a sign trade happen and give him that 20 mil he wants, that Rob Link is clearly like kick rocks and not give you $20 million. Who wants, who's going to do it? The Cavs clearly. So maybe you're not tapped into Camiga reporting like I. The reports are right now.

Camas amused. Camas. He said it buzzing it down. Yes, he's doing it. Unfortunately. If the calves don't get LeBron James, they are linked to Camiga. And it seems like right now,

John the Camingo is waiting on LeBron decision. Again, you're hearing this two weeks later, so it's just entertained us. It's probably already happens. If LeBron chooses the Cavs today, Camiga's probably going to sign and trade with the Lakers and take his $12 million or whatever they're going to give him.

But he's trying to hold out because he wants $20 million a year. And Rob Plinka is like, who the fuck do you think you are? We're not giving you six more million than Grimes and Mom, you're insane. But his agent swears he's worth $20 million a year, so they're trying to use the cash's leverage because the Cavs get the miss out on the wrong.

Who's his agent? he reps Jalen Dern Ooh Anyways They're trying to use the calves as leverage I think the assumption is that the calves They still want a big forward So they'll do that sign and trade

And I guess ship out strews To give Kaminka his 18 to 20 million a year Yeah All right It would be absolutely hilarious If the calves If they had their core And then in the span of

like nine months was like, nah, we have to get over the hunt. We need James Harder and Camiga. Again, if we talk about it, like, if the Lakers get Caminga,

I'm cool with it. That's a, I can deal with that being the starting power forward. It makes sense to me. If they give them $20 million a year, I'll be irate rate. $20 billion is way too much.

Yeah, no, that's nasty. And I hope, like, I would be, I would be so mad if ultimately it leads

them to getting off of Jared Allen is Kaminga. Because then I'll feel like, bro, there's nothing worse than a way feeling like you waited too long to get off of somebody in the league. And I guess Jared Allen maybe doesn't perfectly fit that scenario because he is straight

up good. But we just ran through the exercise. I don't remember if recorded or not. But there's not too many teams right now who would be like perfect shooters. We need Jared Allen immediately. You know, once upon a time ago, you, but you got Kessor. And he's in my mind better than Jared Allen. Or can be.

He hasn't been so far, but I think he probably will be better than Jared Allen. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know either. And shipping back to Utah? Sure. Why not? I'd be very happy with coming get 10,

dollars a year. That's a worthwhile swing to me. $20 million a year, Ralph Polingka, you lost your fucking mind. And he has lost his mind plenty of times before. He has, but lately, he seems like, I told you, they hired that guy who's from rocket science to be their cap guy. And so far, they haven't done anything stupid with the cap. The rocket science guy, he has a baggage to, it seems that Robling is listening to him. Okay, we'll see. But that being said, that is our power forward rankings. Somebody save Evan Mobley, somebody saves

Zahombole, somebody saves A lot of Williamson. Hopefully, Darren Pearson saves Jaron and Lowry. A lot of other guys need to be saved. Yeah. Yes. And Mo. One a billion hot dogs by a landslide. Good. He really wanted it.

I forgot about that. I forgot about competing for dogs. Yo. Not even close. Yo, man. How do you feel right now? This is one of the greatest accomplishments of my life, honestly. Growing up, I didn't play sports.

Growing up, I didn't join any clubs for real. I was not a German club, I guess, for two seconds. Never had anything for real. German club? Yeah, for like two seconds. for extra credit. I wasn't for love of the game. I just wanted three points.

That's all. But now I'm one of a billion hot dogs. And I will spread my love across the world. Hot dogs for everyone. Okay, give him Frank left and right. If you're watching, you can get Mo Frank. It's very weird. It's a weird.

Come on. Who might I call it weird? It's just his life. Can't hate. Oh, man. It's now time for producer corner. Be Solas. What do we have today? We're bringing it back to the classics, man.

We're playing Tic-Tac-To. Okay. 2-2 Tic-Tac-To. All right. 2B-2? Yes, 2B2. Let's do me and Donovan. This is fun because I think as grown adults, none of us should ever be capable of losing in Tic-Tac-To.

This should be a stalemate every time. So the first one to lose, moron tattooed on your forehead. All right. Me and Donovan, Isaac and M. Mo. So are we going to take turns where I make a pick and he makes the next one? We can't, we can't interfere? Yeah. Okay. Who goes first? I'll go first. Bottom left corner. Boom. Well, you got it. Yeah. Cool. I'll do in the middle. Which column? The middle. The middle. Oh, straight middle. Yeah. Straight middle. Yeah. We will go top left. Okay. We will go middle left. Okay

Middle right Okay Nice We will go I guess Middle top Cool Little top

Right Yep Okay Um Gotta go middle Bottom This is a cat And we gotta go

Bottom right Damn it All right Two functioning adult brains There should never be a winner Just block block block block Is there a meta? Is there like a way to actually win?

Yeah, I think so But I've been played Tic Ticke-Tot As far as I know You can just block left and right every time And nope you should ever win Unless somebody makes a mistake Some people get too gung-ho And go all offense

And they don't even fucking put defense Yeah exactly Just focus on three straight Three straight three straight Maybe that's a thing Maybe you have to do that Because if you do defense It was never win

so you're playing for no reason. So maybe you have to like hope they don't notice. It has to be good balance. Like a lot of times like just the other day, maybe like a month ago, I played Connect 4. I was undefeated. I'm nasty at that game.

I play straight defense and I luck my way into connecting 4 immediately always. Who's up first in the second game? It's on y'all. I guess me this time, I will go middle. Cool. So you be sold. Let's go middle right. Okay.

My turn. Let's go. This is ridiculous. Bottom left. Bottom left, right? Mm-hmm. Okay. You know where we got to go.

He's hovering your mouse over it. You hope. You're cheating. Go top right. We will go bottom right. Yep. I almost missed it. That's been hilarious.

Look, look, they're fried. Oh my God. They're fried. They're fried. Oh, ass. Fuck, both of you. Nucleses for you. You're fried.

We just beat these stupid motherfuckers. Dumbies. What are you talking about? Top loves. What do you mean? Hey. You're counterpunching. What were the other kind of punch?

Idiots, you felt for it. You're dumbest fuck. Hell yeah. Hell yeah. They don't look at me We're D. Dumbies. Told y'all run this shit,

bro. It should be impossible to lose. What do we meant? Where do we fuck up? With the very first move, if they go middle, you can't go on the same plane because then it allows every other aspect.

So if they go, if they go middle, right, now you have the four corners that they can take off. You have to take off one side. And so you going, and so you going in the

middle, it only took out the middle. They still had every diagonal. And you have, and you set up the bottom. So if they go, if they go middle, you have to go corner. Oh, I mean, I want to switch it up. To make good content here.

You did? Fair. Yeah. You got to be a total idiot to lose a TikTok and they didn't know checkmate he was posse you know what's funny

I had no idea I had no idea I went to kick it easy once I went I went top right and I played out the next couple ones I was like oh yeah

he went off the strange mode I said I could echo they might not see it too maybe they don't know Stay calm

That was a good producer quarter Dave Oh man We're on to TikTok time Welcome to TikTok time Today per usual We're going to begin with the draft Actually

We're going to begin with a few drafts We are going to go on Buildabucket.com and see if we can build the best NBA players possible This is something we've done before On our own with our own spinners We've built players with different traits There's no website that we found

called Build a Bucket We can do a Guard or a Big classic or all time. So I think today we're going to do three different rounds of this and see the best player we can build. It goes off of 2K overalls. See, that changes the equation a lot.

It does. Than just like regular. Yeah, what we value? Yeah, he's nice. Nope. Now there's a number along with it.

At least we know the equation. We do. Yeah, yeah, it's not a mystery. So let's start. Classic guard. Let's do that first. Current day players.

We're going to spin the wheel on the left. It'll line out a team and pick a player for us. There is five attributes on here for skills. I think three from physical and two for mental. So 10 total categories. Two for mental. Okay. Yeah, mental.

It's, what does it say? Basketball IQ and leadership slash clutchness. Okay. What are the physical say? Okay. Physical. Size, bounce, and speed. And then the skills is passing, jump shot,

handles, finishing, and perimeter defense. Okay. See, this is, this is good, though, because a lot of times, like, like, this allows us to be very, very specific. Yep. And so we like if we get a bad player We have we have an opportunity to find the best in them

To be real to be real positive Yeah it's just their bounce That's all they can do What do you want to point out? Spin number one Where are we going Memphis DeAngelo Russell

Fuck it's a terrible place to start And this is why you have 10 opportunities This motherfucker's on Memphis now Fuck Yeah she just got waved You have re spins We can re-spin the player or the team Each skill has a letter grade there.

And again, you can see it better than us. Be Souls. Can you make the full screen on the OBS so we can see a little more clearly? It is full screen. Nope. On the OBS. Oh, wow. That is just a little bigger.

What is the grades that say A there? What are those traits? There are no grades for A. The highest one is passing for B handles B. All right. So I feel like we should re-spin the team. I mean the player. And get some of those on the team?

No, unless it's tight room. That's like, that's an insane shot. Do you want something else? If we respend the team. I mean, if we take DeAndrelle Russell's handles, I feel like we can still build a pretty good player. Yeah, there's a good baseline. I think he's a good canvas.

A bee handles? I think we can live with that, can we? Yeah. It's a good canvas. We might get a really terrible player at a category where we were almost out. Everything's open to us now. I think we can get bees and still have a good player. So handles?

I think so. Or any of the bees. What do you think? Yeah. I'm fine with handles. You can do worse. It's not a bad handle all. We'll go handle.

Let's go handle. Perfect. All right. Next spin. Start with 81 overall. Nice. Toronto Raptors. Jacoby Walter.

See, that's what. What are those B plus skills? No B plus is the highest one is speed at B minus, bounce at B minus, jump shot at B minus. All right. We're going to have to re-spin the player. We got to respin Jacobi Walter. Yeah. Yeah.

Damn. Okay. Let's respin the player. R.J. Barrett. Okay. What we got? What is that an A? A minus bounce.

You know what? They say he can get up. We're taking balance. Okay, guard with Jabar. RJ Barrett's bounce, we'll live. We can do that. Up to an 85 right now? Let's go.

All right, next. We can do much worse. Atlanta Hawks. Corey Kispert. Shooting. Oh, yeah, the jump shot. A jump shot, B size. B plus size.

Just go ahead. Jump shot. Was that F primitive defense? Hey, Corey Kispert jump shot is a nice start. 91 overall now. All right. All right, here we go. got to keep mind the mental

Boston Celtics Derek White Ooh Where is that defense Perimeter defense 8 passing's a A minus Hey well we'll find Another good passer

Primer defense You can't get much better Alright let's do it Next Just a 92 Do you have a passing A Lakers Bronnie James

Let's go What's a A minus speed Give us a speed He can move He is fast Fastest guards in league Let's do it

Have you seen him in the G league He moves On the open court All right. Next. Houston Rockets. Let's get some stars. Tari Isson.

Good Lord. That's a guard? A minus size. Oh, a guard? We can be six foot eight. Okay. Let's do it.

Yeah. We need some stars. You do. Also, we don't. We're 92 overall. We just need specialists. Facts.

But keep on, we have the mentals still. That's what I'm saying? If we're trying to make like the best, best player, we need some hits. We're in for 99 overall here. We better have some clutch and

leadership. Let me hear. Cutching leaders. Oh, fuck. Clutch and leadership on the Kings. Alex Caraband? He's a rookie. Respin the team.

Yeah, respin the team. I don't want Alex Caraband. He hasn't even played yet. Okay. Nothing to do with the Kings. Indiana Pacers. Johnny Furphy. Good luck.

That was worse. Damn. We got worse. I feel like. Passing or finishing is his highest. He dunked on Noah Senge that one time. Made him a meme. Yeah, but that's all you can call for.

That wasn't in the actual NBA game. What do you want for me, man? RJ, R.J. Bounce, Furphy finishing is like maybe the best that we can do. We better get an elite shooter. Yeah, finishing is all we can do. Okay, let's go finishing. Oh, down to 80 and overall, that hit like a truck. Brooklyn Nets, Drake Powell.

Oh, we suck. Yo, that brother's not going to anything. We were guys who raw for a second. I put the leadership in clutch. What? We can probably get somebody else who's a better passive. Oh, yeah, I better hope so. Okay.

Okay. Leadership or clutch. 87. Okay. That's minimal. We got a next year. Cleveland Cavaliers. Jaylen Tyson.

Oh, my. But we're getting hosed. Basketball. I told you this. I told you we needed stars. Yeah. We're getting owed. Okay.

Yeah. Just go passing. The basketball like you. Did you go passing? Yeah. What the hell? This is cucked. Why he cooked that?

We're going again. We're going again. Orlando Magic. Anthony Black. That's what like you, I guess. All is left, right? Yep. 80 through over.

You know, this is crazy. We got worse. We started at 81. This picture is insane. We were in 92 for a second. And they completely fell apart. That sucks. You got to see me again, bro.

All right, man. Let's try with the big now. They saw it's getting too good. Yeah, I know. They say, here you go. So does a dream. Let's go. Classic mode.

All right. Here we go. First spin. Memphis Grizzlies, Zach Edy, Isaiah Stewart. Ooh. I got some skills. Where's the leadership? Leadership is at C.

Yeah. You can't leave with hands. The highest ones are size at B plus, interior defense at B plus, rebounding at B plus. I think we're rebounding. Let's aim for an A plus interior defense. That matters a lot. I'm fine with that.

All right, rebounding? Yeah, B plus rebounds cool. Okay. Now, play making. I Boston Celtics Mitchell Robinson Hell yeah

Fuck We could have rebounding I know B plus interior defense B plus size B plus leadership and clutchness Okay

leadership and clutches B plus We can snipe that I feel like size I feel like size would be good though But they're all I mean it's not hard to be Some

find someone who's big though Yeah I think it's gonna be hard Clutches who might I think size is more important leadership and clutch So we'd probably rather have an A in size, so let's just take the B plus clutch.

He's seven feet. But he's not an A, so it's the same for an A. Yeah, we can find some. He probably should be an A, but they ain't given that. Yeah. So we're going where? I think leadership and clutch? Yeah. We can find someone who's big. That's not hard. I don't know why he's a clutch B plus because he misses a free throws for

That's so big. This is the game, not me. Yeah. All right. Let's go. Devinstate the offense and rebounds. Fair. Leadership and clutch, Mr. Robbins. Yeah. Champion. Next spin. Don't forget. San Antonio Spurs. Mason

Plumley Respin the player obviously It should get Wimby We were so close We were so close to win Yeah if you land on the spurs You got to respin the player We gotta try to get a chance

And they're only giving us bigs right Yeah We got to get a chance It's Benito It's Mabo It's Mason Plumby who gives a fuck Will they be onbo I spin it

I don't know who's better Between the two right now I don't care Jaden Quintens Oh wait there's a A down there They just drafted him A minus size Hell yeah

That is better How does he do His long arms I don't know why, but okay. Yeah, a little weird, but okay, we'll take the size. He's actually kind of small. He's 6.9, 225. Hey, man, the A minus is A minus.

We'll take it. Don't worry about that. What the hell? I'm an 89 overall. Leave me alone. Facts. So I'll ask Carrie of as a number on the right. Next.

It's been again. Indiana Pacers, Pascal Seaccom. Thank you. A minus finishing, A minus basketball like you. I feel like with Cacom, the taking, getting a minus that finishing is very good. However, the way that we've been going,

we might need this basketball team. Let's hit the basketball team for sure. There's plenty of good finishers at the center position. Do I raise playmaking? It is a B plus. It's not the highest attribute, but how many playmakers are better than good? Good point. Yeah, that's true. You know what? Big brain Bsels. Yeah.

That's why you press the buttons. Big brain Bs. That's really good. Triple Bs. I like that. Let's go B. Let's go playmaking. All right. There you go. If we get yoke, your ass is grass. Then we went down. What? We went from 89 to 88. That's fine. We'll raise back up.

Because we've got to get all A's. Basically, unless you get an A, you're going down. Memphis Grizzlies, Cameron Boozer. Ooh, was there any A's.

No A's B plus finishing. That's about it. What is that B plus basketball IQ? B minus. B minus basketball IQ. Take the basketball IQ. Well, B minus, hell no.

Let's take the B plus. And take what else? Finishing's B plus? Yeah. Right. Yeah, very good finisher. I'm cool with that. Are you?

Yeah. I feel like we can get a, better finisher. But if you go B minus, we'll go down an overall more. So it's really just a grades thing. Go ahead. Good. Good. Early don't. Finishing? I mean, B minus is objectively worse than B plus. What do you want? I think we find better than B minus. It was a B plus and I'll be with me. Yeah, yeah. But B minus is like, I passable. B plus finishing?

I don't understand what your objection is. Because I feel like, I feel like we can find a big width. I think like the finishing might matter a little bit more. Yeah, in terms of the construction. Yeah, I don't know. See, I don't I don't know. I don't know how much things are weighted. Let's, we'll go with the B plus. All right, B plus finishing. Camer Boos is finishing. Let's go. We're crafty. And over six, nine, it fits. 89.

Houston Rockets. I'm not trying to make things that fit. I'm trying to make a demigas. Houston Rockets, Clint Capella. Shit. We're going to have to pick interior defense. So, yeah. That's A, right? It's B. Oh, B. It's B. 2026.

Oh, oh, oh, let's use a re-spin. Oh, yeah. We can respend the team. Yeah, we're trying to get back in the 90s. We need an A in interior defense. This is our last re-spin, right? Yeah. This is not working out the way I wanted it. Boston Celtics. Fuck.

Chris Seneck Jr. Damn it. Take his speed. B minus speed. B minus bounce. Take his speed. Good one. Okay.

Waste of a re-spin. Damn, bro. What? For Chris. For Chris. For Chris. For Cucsonac. Fuck.

Oh, our big sucks. Phoenix. Oh, Mark Williams. A minus interior defense. There we go. That's a good. A minus interior defense. It was worth passing up on Clint.

Okay. Only up one. point. So be it. Chicago Bulls. Jalen Smith. Oh, sticks. Take the basketball IQ.

Damn. For Jalen Smith. 86. Oh, this picture. Boston Celtics, Mitchell Robinson. Take the bounce.

Take the bounce. That's a better F jump shot. We do what you got to do. 85. Last one. This guy sucks. Detroit Pistons. John Collins.

Jump shot, obviously. Not too bad. Can we get to 87? Okay. 85. 85. This guy's mid.

Bro, let's make a guard. It's better than last time. We used to guard. We got 83. Not too bad this time. Defensive anchor is what we are. Hell yeah. Oh, wait.

Can you simulate the season? Let's see if we would get any awards. Let's see our stat line. Okay, spend my team. Can we just make like Aaron Gordon or something or what? No. We're on the Dallas Mavericks. Simulate season.

Damn. Our team sucks. We don't help anything. I'll lead you to the number one overall picnic season. That's what I helped you to. 36 and 46. Fuck. We average 21 points, 10 rebounds.

You know what's funny? That's literally Aaron Gordon. His last year of the magic. Damn, Aaron Gordon. All right. Let's go to do an all-time one now. All-time guard? Yep.

All-time guard. Okay, let's see if we can do better. It's all time. We better do better. Here we go. First spin. Now we got to aim for 95 of all plus. Houston Rockets, Calvin Murphy.

Perfect. Okay. A minus finishing, A minus handles. A plus speed. A plus speed. There we go. He's a little guy. He's fast as hell.

It's perfect. It don't matter. Okay. Woo. Let's go. Hell yeah. Can we maintain it? Exactly where we need to start.

But now it's all time. So obviously players are better. So we got to aim for 95 plus. Toronto Raptors. T-Mack. I'm eating pick one. I feel like the jump shot or the finishing

finishing is at A What about size? Leadership and clutch is at A. What size? Size is A minus. He's pretty goddamn big. A minus for size? A minus.

Is there anything A plus? No, no. There's two A's though. Okay, then we gotta go in A. But he can't finishing in his Dunkin package? Let's go finishing. Okay. You can't do much worse than that.

Okay. Still 99. Orlando Magic. Grant Hill. Ooh. What's his past? Passing. Passing is a B plus. What?

Jump shot is an A minus. Sides is an A minus. All the mental stuff is a A minus. How is he the A minus size? He's massive. That doesn't make any sense to me. Let's just take his size. He's so big.

Okay. Was that 6-9? Yeah. 68? 96? We got the 96? We got three points to bring as big as Grant. What do we need?

Magic. 6-8-225? This is bullshit. All right. Spin it again. I'm mad. That doesn't make sense. Toronto Raptors.

Vince. Tracey McGrady again. Okay. All right, take his belts. Take his bounce. They better not make his words. Leadership is a A. Take his leadership.

Okay. Yeah, do that. Still 96. Okay. We're just making T-Mack. Grail's like the same size. Spurs. Manu Janobli.

Imagine who's team-Mack. There we go. All right. Passing the basketball IQ. Basketball IQ is definitely up there. Yeah, we should go basketball IQ. It's Mono Gnobli. Yeah.

Okay. Still 96. Can we get back to 99? No, they're actually playing this one. Wizards. Gilbert Arenas. Ooh. A jump shot, A minus handles.

The jump shot is right there. A jump shot. That'll work. That's cool. If we're the size of Grant Hill shooting like Gilbert arenas. Still only in 96 though. This is crazy. We just can't get back.

Grand Hill is permanently incapable of 99. What the hell? Probably. All right. You must have to do all A's or above to be 99. New York Knicks. Walt Frazier. Ooh, what's his finishing?

Finishing. Oh, we did that already. The perimeter defense is A plus. Yeah. Okay. To take it easily. Hell yeah. 97.

You better make me a 97. 97. Let's go. Back up. So we need A pluses to make up. New York Knicks. And there's respan if there's no 90s. Bernard King.

Respend the team. I don't think the rest of the guards here are going to be there. Respend the team? Yep. Okay. Come on. Cleveland Cavaliers. Kyrie Irving.

S handle. They have S's. Thank God. We save handles. Wow I was thinking about Gubon Arias Handel

thank God we don't listen to my stupid ass Yeah we got to be 100 overall now Take that 97 still What the fuck is the point of

This is This is crazy Maybe we need one more To get back up It's not But if that's not gonna make Us 98 Then

What do we need left Another ass maybe We need Passing and bounce Okay All right here we go Here we go Give me magic

Memphis Grizzlies John Morant Mike Conley Damn it A passing What do you A plus though Do you want

To you want to respin to try to get jaw? No. For just bounce? No. Or just take the A. Just take the A. I'm looking at it.

I think there's only three guards on here for the Grizzlies. It's just John Morant, Tony Allen, or Mike Conley. We damn should I want Tony Allen, so let's just take our A passing. We already have defense, right? Yeah. Okay, A passing it is. Okay, so we need an S bounce. Give us Derek Rose now.

Or John Moran again. Brooklyn Nets. No. Vince. Dries and Petrov. Oh, my. Can we just lose 97 overall? Respin the player.

Oh, we can respin. Give us Vince Carter. Come on. Please, please. Jason Kidd to be. Okay. It is our lowest attribute though. 95 is probably what we're going to be at.

Damn it. 97. Okay. We maintain. I feel good. That's ball handling. Yeah. It made up for it.

Let's see if we can get MVP. We bet we're 97 overall. We better simulate the season and win MVP. Yeah. Who do we play for? The Utah Jazz. 97 overall. All right.

All right. We're not being MVP. I run the jazz. Whoa, now. Oh 63 games Okay

63 games 33 points a game It's 5 and 9 Oscar Roberts Oh They put all the All the time cards Oh

Alright Let's do an all time Big see what happens All right That makes sense Big Yep all time Let's go

All right Spin number one Give me shack body Boston Celtics Robert Parrish Okay Okay my bad What's his best

What's his best Actribute Size a Rebounding a minus finishing a minus probably size but remember if you saw the size of rebound we saw a minus is ding us if you want to go for nine overall we need strictly aes and above Do you want to re-spin and try good bill russell? That's early Kevin garnett is also in there Kevin McHale Yeah, I mean I don't know are we trying to go for nice or you know they have good big yeah that's not a bad if we want it 99 we can't have a single a minus

Okay, we spin player yep all right KG Kevin McHale is finishing as finishing there we go that's why we're Leets only. All right. They don't know about these post moves. They don't. They don't know about the Snoo. Houston Rockets.

Moses Malone. S rebounding. There we go. S is only. S is only. We're going for 99. Let's go. If we do get 99, then we're S is only, I need MVP.

Atlanta Hawks, Zakembe Matumbo, S, Interior Defense, S size. Ooh, interior defense has to be waited so hard. Yeah. So let's do interior D. We block everything like Batonbo. Yeah. Dude, hell yeah. Three S's.

Three Ses. We better stay 99. Whoever sells this. I hate you. Washington Wizards. Jeff Ruland. Who was that? A size?

A size. We do have margin for error with all the S's. We do. We can have A, no A minus. So we can go size. Okay. Okay.

I don't know who that is. 7-7 wings, man. Damn, okay. Okay. All right. New York Knicks. Patrick Ewing. A minus basketball IQ and leadership clutchness.

Basketball IQ. But no A minuses. So you might as well use. Do you want to respent? If you want 99, 0-A-minuses. It might save us. You don't think we have any...

Go ahead. Zero A minuses. Okay, respend the team? Yep. We're trying to get some foolishness. Probably, but we got... Charlotte Hornets. Alonzo Morning!

I see what is that? Leadership questions. It would have been the same. Okay, there we go. We tried. All right. Yeah, we have margin for error. Okay.

Denver Nuggets. Yolkich. Dan Issel. A-minus basketball IQ. That'll do. He's white. I bet his IQ is real high. But he plays again the right way.

Indiana Pacers. Rick Smith. And this killed us. We should have saved the re-spin. This killed us. B-plus jump shot. Oh, I'm done. Take the jump shot.

Probably down 98. We're still at 99. Wow. All those a S has got us. Wow. Come on. Are we just unbeatable now? Indiana Pacers.

Rick Smith again. No. No. No. No. No. No. No.

No. It's going to have to be playmaking. We should have took Ewing. I'm sorry. Yeah, take point making. If we're still 99. No. 97, no.

All right, two more. We should have took our A minus. Let's see if we could take our crazy athletic. What are we looking for? Speed and bounce. Oh, man. There's not a lot of bigs with goods. I don't know.

We need will. Damn it. Okay. I lost us 99. Josh Smith. I see Josh Smith right there. Come on. Jay smooth.

Josh Smith. Golden State Warriors, Jemong Green. B minus speed. Damn. $196. Can we at least like... We need S-tier bounce. We need like Blake Griffin.

I don't want to below 95. David West. We just sold the 99. 94. Fuck. Yeah. They did see us going crazy. Yeah.

And they did nuke us. At this point, even if we did save our respend, we would have been cooked or Carson's front. Yeah, we would have felt 98. You still want to get 99 if we saved it. But fuck. Yeah, no, we can't surprise. That's not good.

Damn. All right, man. That's build a bucket. We tried. Let us know if you guys can get nine out of raw. We failed. That's very tough. That's very tough.

Yeah, man. That was supposed to be the one. Three S's the start is ridiculous. Yeah. I don't think anyone could, like, repeat that run that we went on. That's so it was special. We ended with 94. But those three spins?

Special. I fell on top of the world. Pure dopamine. Yeah. Vegas can never do that to me. It's like watching my team win a Super Bowl. All right, next thing we're going to do. I don't know about that.

I don't. Unfortunately. I don't in there. Next thing, we are going to play NBA Wheel of Fortune. Be Souls has put together a list of ten puzzles for us to solve in Wheel of Fortune style. We will take turns having a guess. If you guys don't know what Wheel of Fortune works, there will be a phrase on screen that we'll see in these green bubbles. We take turns guessing a letter.

It'll go me, Donovan, Moe, I think is the order. or Mimo Donovan? Yeah. Mimo Donovan. But first, before you can guess a letter, we spin the button, and when you spin it, it either say you can guess or some form of punishment. And we've got to see which one of us can finalize the puzzle by being the one to guess the word at the end. Yep.

And there's a category at the bottom. So puzzle number one, category is lyrics. Yes. All right, spin that. First spin for Isaac, here we go. Come on. You can guess a letter. I get to guess.

I. I. Yep. Okay, I figured the first letter was I. I figured it was I something. There's two eyes. Okay, okay. All right.

M. Mose-turn. You know the method? Nope. From real fortune? Nope. I don't. Mo, you can guess a letter. I don't know if this.

I don't know if this applies here. Okay, straight vowels. Oh, I know. You do. No. All right, Donovan. Donovan. Now again, that's for regular

We'll You're not in bankruptcy You get no guess What the fuck? Damn And also we have points You see on the screener now When you get a letter right

By the amount You have four ease right You get four points You know what When you land on bankrupt It sends you back down to zero Yeah You know what that

Now is the time to go bankrupt Yep, you got zero Yeah Okay Okay Optimistic mindset Yeah, optimistic mindset Oh

And I'm bankrupt too Sick All right See what I'm saying Okay. Mo scared for his life. I'm scared as fuck, yo. I'm nervous, man.

Oh, no way. All right, Mo, guess a letter. Okay. Um, O. Oh, straight vowels. One, uh, one, one, one single solitary O. Okay. All right, I'll turn again.

Please. Give me a double guess. Double guess. Okay. You can guess two letters. Um, I will guess, uh, we guess A. one a let's guess

yes yes one s okay starting to come together all right what are we doing here what's going on

what's going on okay give me an L L no L's minus one point God damn all right

this is hard I don't know what I'm looking at. Skip a turn. Hell yeah. Run that back. I need another double guess. Wow.

You ask you sell receive, I guess. Give me $2 million right now. Ask for it, please. You got to ask the wheel. Let's go, let's go R. First one. There you go. Oh, shit.

Dang. Let's go. I know, I know. Yeah. You see the same thing as you. Dang, I don't know this right now. And you guys, you guys are going to snipe it. Can I get a T?

Okay. I, I know three words in the middle now, but I don't know the bar. This is so hard. I spin it for me. Okay. Oh, no, I don't because the eye has already been used. Were you thinking the same thing I'm thinking? No.

You're bankrupt. Tim, didn't matter, I guess. All right. I'm bankrupt. Your turn. All right, Mo. Okay. Set it up.

Set it up for me. Oh, my makeup too. I'm broke. And his makeup comes up a lot. I got no books. If you do want to solve, you have to say before we spin.

Oh, before you spin? Yeah. Okay. Cool. Nah, spin it. You don't know yet? No.

Hopefully I can get another double guess. No way. Nah. Damn. Okay. You can guess, though. Man, what is this lyric? Let's go with

let's go with H you assume we get to that yep okay there we go there we go I guess L already right

I did I did you did I thought the second was light I thought it was light but it's not I don't don't care about you

all right okay you got a guess okay okay R is already up there this is this is

super interesting I will laugh You got it? I got it. I got it. I got it. Damn. Okay.

I honestly still don't know what this is. I have no clue what this is. I just got it. You just got it? I'm letting you know right now. It actually doesn't matter because you can't solve. He can't solve anymore, right? No.

Oh, you're right. I got it. Damn. I can't. I haven't come to me. That's tough. I appreciate all of you for playing. All right.

Okay. What if you're wrong? Okay. I'll be so funny. You swear you're not wrong. Almost life. You're not wrong. Almost life.

If Moe's want to be so, strike him down right now. Letter to Cape Mo? Yeah. Okay. No. Big Fat X. All right. None of it.

We have, I will put anything on this right now. I'm going to solve. Okay. The lyric is, I might swerve bend that corner. Oh. Of course you know this, man. Of course he knows that. Damn.

Uh-huh. Almost life. Almost life. No, it's funny. I thought swerve bend was. Sierra Leone for a second. Oh no, we already used the eye. So I thought it was that.

Plus four points. Damn, we got it. Good snipe. Damn. Next. I should have guessed that would be the first lyric that comes up. I should have known that would be the starting point. All right, round number two.

Dominant first round by Donovan. And there's too many bankrupts. All right. Back to Isaac. Next up is a phrase. Round two, we got a phrase. What do we got? First spin. Okay, I get a guess.

Thought you're about to get skipped. I was like, all right, man, whatever. Hate this wheel. Okay. I will guess a. A. Two A's. Two A's, okay.

That third word? Dad. Oh, you put the, you put the two points on, on mine instead of his. Oh. So be it. You get two points. But now the spinners fucked up. Now is my turn again.

I'm trying to win fairly. Well, I got to go again. and other points around me. Okay. All right, spin it. So basically the game, whoever wins is going to go first next time. All right, I get a guess.

Actually, you just say the numbers this time. You say the letters, but I'll get your points. Sure. We'll go, we'll go T. T. Oh, there's no T's not negative too. That bang is so demoralizing.

Sick. The turn is the yellow box, by the way. We can keep track that way. The turn? Yeah. Whoever turns it, there's a yellow box on your score. Oh, okay. Oh, I see.

Oh, I see. Yeah. I forgot about that. All right, Mo. Okay. That's so tough. That's a three-point swing. I do.

Fuck, never mind. All right, yeah. Let's spin that. I'll take a double guess. No, no, no, no, no. Calm, a little one guess. I will go with S. No.

Damn. No S, no T's. Okay. I will go with... It's just somebody yelling? I guess they're All right, hit me to spin. This is so tough.

I know. Because you've got to see on bankruptcy. Thinking forever. Hey, double guess. That's exactly what you needed. I needed that bad. I will go R. I should say R.

No. If you see at the top, it says what letters have been guessed. Oh, I didn't see that. Okay. Oh, I can't see that. No, I just saw it. Oh.

Oh, for my second guess. Okay. Come on, get me out the gutter. There you go. Okay. A-oh. A-oh. A-oh.

Back to Mo. Okay. Are you guessing a while? I know. I haven't made a guess at all. There you go. Okay, there you go. First guess on the board.

What are the letters up there that we've been using? A-T-S-R-O. Oh, H. H. That's a good guess. I was thinking about that. That's my favorite letter. Max.

All right. You got the first letter. Oh, yeah. All right, Donovan. Um, we'll go. We'll go with D. Hmm. Wow.

Oh, okay. Dodo. It's a phrase. It's a phrase. Okay. That's my turn. Yes. Let me think. Yeah, you can solve here if you think.

I feel like I know the first word. Okay, I'll just get some points on the board. Give me R. Oh, well, you need to spin first. Okay, spin first. Okay, spin first. They give me R. Got it a spinner. Hate the spinner. Okay. Give me an R.

Give me a hopefully surefire point. But I feel like I should try to guess it harder. I feel like we have enough here to get it. Oh, we already guessed R. Oh, we did already. Oh, okay. Thank God. It doesn't let me do it again. Oh, so it's not. hard in the beginning. Oh, that's actually,

listen, that's actually killer because that's exactly why I was thinking. Yeah, me too. Oh, shit. What else could be hard? I mean, what else could be spelled like that? Yeah, the children. Wow, what else can be spelled that way? I got one.

Just guys put a letter down. M. M. Oh, somewhere else in the word. Yeah, M, okay. There you go. Got it. Oh, you got a guess?

Wait, wait. You got it? Most. Hold on. Hold on. He does it spin. He wants it again. I know.

Nah, I don't got it. What is that first word? What the hell? Okay, Mom. Gonna spin? Yeah, I'll spin. Oh, yeah. I got to.

Damn. Double guess. Double guess, though. Damn, now he's definitely gonna get it. Yeah. Yeah. You should have taken your shot. And oh, hand.

Yeah, hand is there. And man, I'm assuming. Oh, it's. Oh. Oh, wait, W. W, hand down, man down. He gets no points. Oh, that's tough.

What a steal. Wow. Good shit, Robby's stupid ass. That's good. What a steal. I didn't know that you could do that, man. I didn't think about the word hands. Yeah.

Damn. Okay. All right, it is still on Mo. Oh, this is X's and O's? X's and O's. Okay. Let's spin. All right.

This one seems kind of easy. Damn. Okay. Let's get some on the board E. E. Oh, yeah. Let's see if I can start this right now. Dude, I think I know it.

You better guess. I know. Spin that wheel. No, no. Spend that wheel. First of all. I'm talking to you. I'm talking to you.

Not B. I'm trying to see. I've tried to see the second word. He's trying to snap crazy. I don't know if I know for sure. I'm pretty confident. For X's in O's. I'm like 48.

percent confident I know it. Is it worth the gamble? It is minus four points. It's worth the gamble. I think I might have a sign. If I don't, I'll look stupid, so it would be it. Okay. I might look stupid. Um, give me a letter. All right, let's spin. Okay. Let's go. You get bankrupt here. I'm gonna cry. Oh, no. Let's go. Let's go for me. I know the word. Okay.

What you got for me? X. What the hell? What? What? what is wrong with you Z what is wrong with you he doesn't want to give me any of oh I see the strat was that I see the strat

is this pick the picker let's see is it tell me it's a pick to picker a little spain pick and roll is pick the picker let's go I don't need your help

I wasn't going to give it that take it out it was easy get to the hard way I know I think I should give more points for getting it so fast. It's fucked up, I only get four. There should be a multiplier for the amount of letters, I guess, without needing anything.

We'll do it second game. All right. Next puzzle. Still on Isaac. Place. Wow, three letters. Oh, okay. Okay, spent it.

Three words. That's, I mean, I meant three words. I'm upset. Skip a turn. Nice. Mo, kick us off. Okay. A.

Well, you got a spin version. Oh, shit. Thank you. I feel like I know it. A? I don't want to go A. You think you know it? Yeah.

Damn, already? Yeah. I'll solve. Madison Square Garden. Ah, okay. Yep. It's the deep place. Fair.

Let's see. Maybe he's wrong. I doubt it. It's not. Damn, two snipes back to back. Okay. Next round. We got a concept.

John Donovan A concept So it's like a basketball It can literally be anything It can be anything It's a concept It's a piece of matter Please don't go bankrupt

Skip a turn I'll take that He's got a no bankrupt By the way We begin we've been littered with this Yeah It's been better Yeah spin me

I'm probably about to get bankrupt Well Oh You got saved It's a concept B B B

no bees nice sick my measly little three points okay let's spin this man y'all are one bankrupt away from me being on top gotta keep the mindset damn nice

got it skipped all right donovan I never say spin it it didn't matter let's go we got his ass

damn got him out of here suddenly I'm in second place, just looking good. See, I never said spin. Oh, my God. There's no letters on the board. He's a guess of concept off of nothing. Raw dog guessing a concept.

All right, I got guess. I. Two eyes? Oh, I'm in there. For real, no. I don't know, Do you want to spin? Yeah, I'm a spin

Give me Okay, shit, let's see Let's see Let's see Let's see I'm I didn't matter

to mind Fuck, that's why I get Spin He keeps getting Yeah, He's just watching us Play

Yeah, I'll spin I'll win Fuck But you're winning He's winning though Um I will guess

A no A's Negative 1 Not in the negative Hit me Double guess Okay Let's run through these vowels

E Hmm Ooh Was that four E's? Hell yeah Concept Concept Let's go D

It's probably somewhere A D mixed in With these E's No D There's not Okay Damn Go ahead

Mo's speed Okay Concept double guess finally you to participate oh shit okay what words are taken uh

b i a e d okay give me n n good letter hmm okay what the hell this is a crazy looking word

when you one letter to bring it all together because right now it's there a P P bold No peas Damn.

No peas. Spin? Um, sure. Do we already guess B? We did, right? Yeah. That's our first guess.

Okay. Double guess. This is messed up. It's going to set up. Damn it, it's going to set people on. Um, we're going to go with O. Solid.

Two O? There's so many vowels in this word. Um. I don't know what I'm looking at. Same. I'm lost. This is two words. Yes, two words.

It looks like it's four words. I know. Oh. Con. We're going to go with, we're going to go with X. Why are you wasting it? Nobody knows anything. He thinks he knows, okay.

Do you think you know? Do I think I know? Yeah. No. But I had, this, there's two of the turns. I can't risk it. You like, you really? like wrecking the game.

He watches Will of Fortune. He knows this trash. He's so locked in. Wow. I feel like I got to try to snipe this, but I don't know what the hell I'm looking at. Concept is so vague. Is that like accurate or is that in like,

it doesn't fit anything? Let me help you all out. If I were to change the phrase, X as a nose would also apply for this one. That is actually helpful. Okay. So it could be X as and O's. Yeah.

Like if the category was X as and O's, it would still. Go. That helps. The concept means nothing. Like that just means it's a thing. It's an idea. that's a thought somebody had one time

okay it could be X's and O's I still don't know I'm just going to guess a letter spin me okay I play for the team like somebody I had a double guess I got one yeah yeah okay have you guessed L yet

no give me an L oh my God I know it down that brought it together does it make sense though yes damn it I still don't know. All right.

Let's go. Don't let it get back to me. Actually, I know. I don't have to be. So let me not say I actually don't know either fully. Oh, no, I do know.

You're going to guess? Yep, don't let it back to me. You're going to guess, Mom? I don't know certainly yet at all. Spint time? Yeah, I'm a spin. It's like a gray area right now.

I see it, but I don't. I hope you get it wrong. Spin? Yep, spin. Don, you better play. I 100% know it. Okay. Play with most confidence.

Cool. Thank you. I'm scared who's going to get bankrupt. Shit. Okay. Do we use B already? Yes. B's already used.

Okay. C. You know what now? I will solve. Damn it. Okay. Damn it. I wish you got that wrong.

It's so obvious. Heliocentric offense. Fuck. Damn it, man. Make sure I'm swung it, right? You got it. That's clearly right. See, if I let him

If I didn't give you Bankrupt No, listen, if I didn't give you that layup Like, then you Then he would have been winning I wouldn't be up though And I wouldn't be up though If he would have done it though

Is I'm closer Bezos, get somebody a bankrupt man You threw him to law Not me too, I can't throw it away Let's wait for it You threw him the perfect live You're Chris Paul

Next prize Appreciate you, buddy movies movies um wow is that a sniper right now is that an apostrophe yes what oh that's an apostrophe okay I'm trying to think so is like a basketball related movie yeah I'm trying to go through like the hits of all time yeah you're really trying to snip right now yeah we don't take forever if you don't know it I know um there's like four going going through my head right now I I have to spin. Okay.

Yeah, I don't know the apostrophe. That doesn't scream anything to me right away for a movie. A? You got one singular A. Hit me with a spin. I don't know. I'm so mad about heliocentric offense. I know.

I appreciate you. Give me a B. Is there a B for basketball? Damn. No, B. The word basketball clearly. No, I know. I know.

Maybe they try to do some word association in the title if it's about basketball. Okay. I'm a spin. Oh. We're up next. Yo. We're up. We're up.

Um, let me see, let me see, let me see, let me see. The biggest movies of all time. Oh my, um, I'm upset because I know, I feel like I know. Actually, wait, no, that's the only eight. Never mind. I don't know. Spin it. Okay. This is so tough.

It is. Double guess. I don't know anything, bro. We'll go with I. I. Yeah, we'll get the vowels out of the way. Why not? It's just killer.

Oh, you got double-gates. We'll go with S. That's a good way to get points. It has to be an S after apostrophe, right? Yeah. No? No. What the hell comes after the apostrophe?

Okay. What? Okay. You know, we're all just lost. Like, I, I. Maybe it's a name. Not at the end, though. If it was a name would be in the beginning, I would assume.

No, it's written names. Just got letters now. Okay, spin. Okay, so I think I know it comes after the apostrophe, although it's a team layup. I think there's only one other letter that can come after that. It's like a too bad. I'll skip a turn.

All right. No team liams for us. Oh, damn, man. It's all good. I didn't know what he was. I just don't want to get bankrupt. Double guess. Ooh.

Okay. It's important. here. It's very important. I'm going to go M. M. That's big. It might be big to you. I don't know anything yet. Getting the first letter of any of the words, I feel like it's big. Probably, yeah. Okay. Yeah, A and apostrophe does not shit for us. Give me N. N. N? Got it. I saw White man can't jump. Oh, okay. Damn it. I think I put men. you keep going in these loft

bro you're a professional point guard damn you got it okay okay okay so you're up by one back on top last puzzle close enough one yeah bro anybody's game anybody's game

it's close enough and now we gotta care about points we can't be wasting them because now every point counts okay events Donovan where we're going last one um

events this is just overall event we will go we'll spin okay I don't want to there's literally nothing

he's stressed oh bang oh you should have took a shot oh he got no points he got no buckets oh you broke as fuck oh you got nothing in your pocket he got no money on your card

fuck fuck But you come back though, you're at zero. Wow. You're at zero. Wow. Events. Oh, I'm so mad. Spin it.

Oh, my God. Any points? I'm so upset. If I imagine, I get bankrupt? Please. No, that'll be hilarious. So close. Give me a T.

Oh, what's at the second one was the? No. Give me an E. Okay. Interesting. Events. I don't know so far. Mo, where we're going?

Um. Red froze. Freaking twice, man. S? Oh, you got to spend. Oh, forget. What would be his bankrupt too? Oh, and what default?

No, that can't happen. Thank God. If I'm just the only one who doesn't get bankrupt? Yeah, give me, give me ass. Huh. I'm a solve. You know? Yeah, Emeritus NBA Cup.

This dumbass game, man. I don't beat these... Bro. I don't beat them like. three times already. Champions are mine. Okay. Let's go.

This is fun. I'm so good at this game. Bro, shut her. I'm the best. I think I got one right. Damn, man. Baker really cooked you.

I got 11 points by the fall. He's so mad. Because I should have had like 45 points by now. He can't fucking breathe. Hey, what's cool though? We got Baker back in front. fourth at the beginning.

I know. They were fucking running it up on us. I know. They're just backing us left and right. That's funny. Next thing we're going to do, I have put together a list of the NBA players this past season with the most turnovers over the course of the 82 game season. You three have to try to guess the names. Okay.

So 1 through 10, guess a player. If you get it right, I'll tell you their spot on the list. First great guess. Russell Westbrook should always be. Russell Westbrook doesn't play a whole lot. Yeah, he is not in the top 10. Is Julius Randall in the top 10? Julius Randall, funny enough, is number 11.

He's the first one to not make the list. Wow. Okay. Who gets a bunch of turnovers? Dubious handle almost made it. Okay. Oh, Jalen Brown. Jailen Brown's number one in the MBA.

You know your goat, man. That's actually hilarious. Hell yeah. When he'll ask me, why do you slander? Why do you think he's overrated? Number one in turnovers in the league. He's not a point guard. It's been a big conversation after the late on the subject's Twitter.

It's a big issue. is Kate Cunningham on this list. Oh, hell he is. He is on this list. He is number eight. I thought it's higher. Yeah. Not as high as that.

Yeah, I thought he was like top four. Okay. Yep, number eight. Josh Giddy, is he on this list? No, no. Josh Gide doesn't turn it over that much. Is James Hardin on this list? James Hardin is number five on this list.

Wow. From those early days of Kauai in the beginning of the season, he was letting your rip left and right. Wow. Okay. I would say most of the names on here, you'd expect them to be on here. Oh, Tyrese maxi?

Oh, no, Tyre's Maxi is not definitely on this list. Wow. Luca Donchich. He barely? Yeah. No.

Actually, yes. My bad. Luca Donchich is number two on this list. Wow. Despite missing some games. That's actually crazy. He would have been number one. Yeah,

all the guys who have the ball in their hands a lot. Yeah. That's just a product of having the offense run through you. Okay. Along those same lines. I was going to say, Schengun. I was going to say, Schengue.

Hell, yeah. Shangoon is number nine. Yeah. he gives it up okay you already say Randall Julius Randall? Yep you did he was number 11 oh yeah just barely didn't make it but he's here in spirit Is Jalen Johnson here? Hell yeah Jalen Johnson here he's number six Okay yeah yeah yeah he had like eight assists the game he was giving it up for sure Maybe you think somebody on like the bucks like Ryan Rollins is here

Surprise right because he played he played a lot these are all stars you have to get star You should be up here he was a star for them sure a mellow ball why don't we guess him Because he's not on this list. Wow. You think Ant's on the list? The Melo ball played this minutes this year. Ant might be. He missed some time, though.

Ant doesn't give the ball up that much. He protects it a little better because he doesn't try to pass. So he doesn't get thrown away. Wemby? Nope, well, Wemby's a big. It's hard to do that unless you're a playmaker. Shea's not on here for sure. You think Offer Street Volume Yokish might be on here?

Yeah. Yokic is number seven. Offer straight volume. He missed a lot of time, too. That's kind of not surprising, I guess. But straight volume. Certain got his straight volume. You got the ball lot.

You're going to give it up. Ball a lot. Is Brunson in the top 10? No, he's not. Yeah, I knew that. My goal. All right. Just checking.

It's because he missed time. Had to be sure. Is Tatum? Not a little too. Tatum here already. What the fuck? LeBron James. Nope, no, miss a ton of time.

Is Devin Booker on this list? Nope, nope. Not enough to passing. Absolutely. Also, he missed time. So you have number three, four, and 10. Yeah, all of which

played a lot of games. Palo on this list? Palo's number 10. He gets on here. That's a great guess. You guess Randall's like, oops, guess the other one. Yeah.

Three and four, they played a lot of games, the balls in their hands. One, actually, both he maybe might not expect to be this high,

but it will make sense. Maybe somebody on the paces like Pascal or something? Nope, they're all-star players. They're both all-stars. Pascal's the star and an all-star. Are you mean the All-Star team this year?

Make a wish that's all-star. I forgot about that. It's Kevin, right here? Yes, Kevin Durant's number four and it's hilarious. The Rockets have two stars on this list. She's giving it up. It couldn't stop. They were throwing them left and right turnovers.

Okay. Luca. One name left. So he said Maxie. I think Donovan Mitchell turns it over enough. It's not Donovan Mitchell. Could. That's not a bad guess. Now, if they're an all-star out of the all-star guards,

who else is especially in the West? Might be one you forget about. Steph? Why would Steph be he missed a lot? Is Denny on his list? Denny is number three. That's the last player. Great guess. Clutch.

That's pretty high. Yep. That makes sense. He's just throwing things on the court all the time, whether it's his body or the ball. And no, it is it because he runs too fucking fast. Yeah. When you sprint at the rim and toss your body around like a maniac, you're going to turn

over. Go ahead. Those are top ten. Next up, you guys are going to do the same thing. The top ten players in 2026 with the most personal fouls. Perfect. Number one, or not even number one, but just has to be on the board. Jermont Green?

Is he in the top 10? Draymond Green did not make the top 10 this year, actually. I'm surprised he went that way. Carr Anthony Towns. Carr Anthony Towns is number two on this list. He's fouling left and right. Okay, great. Is Palo on this list?

That'd be funny. No, Palo's not on this list, but one of his teammates is. Jaylon sucks? Nope, wrong one. You think it's Wendell? Yeah, he's pretty healthy. Yeah. Wendo?

With 267 personal fouls in the 2025, 2026 season. Wendo Carter is number one. That's actually crazy. He's the most highest following player in the league. Is Tumani Kamaari here? Yes, Tumani Kama is number seven. Makes sense. He's mad, physical.

Is Ludeau on this list? No, Ludo is on this list. Good whistle. Yeah, they don't call fouls for the Thunder. You're right, you're right. But now he's in Atlanta, so he's in a foul at every game. Jalen Dern? No, good guess.

Jaylander is not on this list. Think somebody on the Kings? Why? Like Maxine Raydonald? What does that mean? Yeah. I don't know. Okay.

Because like part of it is like, yes, you need somebody who's like a good defender, but also the good defenders are good at not fouling it. Oh, is Yenka Congo here? Yes. On Yenka is number five. Yeah. He's always in foul trouble? Yeah, he is.

He does too much. We're just getting the deep cuts out the way. Yeah. Is Jaron Jackson Jr. here? You missed some time, though. You got hurt. Ah, he would have been number one. Rudy Gaubert?

Nope. Rudy Goberer is action number 14. Okay. Oh, no, my bad. 16. You didn't make the list. Is, see, is Josh Hart a list? Nope, definitely not.

Yeah. I'll give you a hint. There's another Palo Bancair teammate on here. Oh, my God. Pross is here? Nope. There's another Palo Boehiro teammate on here. Desmond Bain.

Desmond Bay. His ass is number three. Number three. The highest non-big, number three. Okay. You get mad, throwing balls at people. Oh, my God. It's a frustrating season.

What can I say? I'll say number four, it's also a bit of a hot head. Oh, I thought you said another magic team. Jonathan Isaac? Just clobbered people. Do we say Isaiah Stewart? We haven't said it yet. Beef stew?

Beef stew is not top ten. Another hot head. Maybe you don't think about it. Oh, a man Thompson. No, a man Thompson's not top ten. And a man Thompson teammate is here. though and it's quite funny. Kengoon here too.

Shangoon's number six. He turns over top ten and fouls top ten. Shingun. He'll just do spuns. Shangoon is looking for bad, bro. I'm trying to defend you, but it's not working. Four, eight, nine, and ten left. I'll say, nine and ten you should know.

Four you can get to. Eight is a deep cut, not going to lie. Nine and ten, we should know. What's his problem? These are like the two objectively negative stats in basketball. Is Yeager Demen here? No, but that's not terribly far off number eight. That's the type of deep cut number eight is.

Okay. Is Kada on here? Is who? Nemeas Kada? No, Mies Kada is not top ten. He didn't play enough minutes. Oh, damn. Is Randall on here too?

Randall's number 10. No way. My bad, my bad. number nine. Okay. Randall number nine. Fuck. Okay.

Number 11 to turn over nine in fouls. Killer combination. You can do one. Can't do it. Both? Can't defend it. I'll say number 10 is somebody you probably also expect to be on the turnover list, but they weren't. Okay.

Fowles, is Ron Holland here? Nope. Doesn't play enough. You expected him to be on the turnover list. Expected to be. Also, in the music kid, it was 12. That was a good guess. I was expected to be on the turnover list.

So he wasn't, but. But you. You think he's also a guy that turns it over and vows. Lamello? Nope, nope, nope. Mello doesn't play defense enough to foul. Come on. He's just like, go by.

Just go, I don't care. Let's see. Four and ten are physical defenders. Eight is hilarious. We're just not going to get it. You're not going to get it, I promise. In ten physical defense. Actually, my eight was in our rankings episode we did today.

He was on that list. Keldon Johnson. Nope, nope. Damn, that's the guess. One of Kelden's teammates is on this list. Stefan Castle? Stefan Castle number 10. Makes sense.

He's a hack. Yeah, he's a hack. He's punching people. Yeah. All right, so four. Four you should get. It's a good defender that's a little bit of a hot head. Eight, once again, is hilarious.

It's not a song. Is it Dyson Daniels? Not Dyson Daniels. Dyson Daniels isn't that aggressive. It's a finesse defender. This guy's not. What are we thinking here? Kason Wallach's here?

Nope. This is a bigger guy. again is known as a little bit of a hothead but maybe forget he's a hot head actually but he gets mad yeah we might we might be forget he gets real mad in the playoffs oh wemby nope nope nope nope maybe this guy got mad at wendy before

oh man mad at wemby before uh who got a bow maybe he's good for a playoff oh nozreed no close though damn maybe this guy's good for a push in the back or two a season oh yokeets nope You're closer at Nalshry.

This is Jada McDaniels O'4. Ah, that makes sense. Yeah. I forget about him. You get mad. He's quiet about it. Yeah. Pushing people.

Yeah. Okay. Number eight, he was on our rankings he did today. So he's a power forward. Yeah. All right, let's... Maybe he plays a little bit center too.

Power four plays a little bit of center. Maybe he's a little Caucasian. It's a little bit. Just a little bit. A little bit. A little bit. A little bit. It's a wee bit.

Kyle Filipowski. Kyle Philipowski's number eight. What the fuck is he doing on this list? How do you? you know that? We've got too many questions going on right now. That's very weird. What?

How do you know that? We have to investigate Utah. How was he fouled? Because he played a lot of center because Kessler wasn't there. So he was a young center just playing terrible defense for hacking people. We got to investigate Utah. They already did, buddy. Yeah, true.

Next thing we do, you guys are going to blind rank these random NBA things. Okay. One through five, blind rank them. Random NBA things, okay. First off, Buzzard Beater threes. Honestly, got to be one. Damn near. Uh, but what are like posterizers on here?

I mean, okay, so, what if there's like a championship on here? Then, then that could be one. But a game winning three is objectively one of, like, the coolest things that you can do. But what we have to say one, though? Is it the coolest thing? It's one of them. You won the game. There's no time left.

From deep? I mean, it could be like, you're hit? That's what I'm saying. At half time or like at the end of the second. No, you say buzzer beat, do you mean like for the game? Buzzard Beard 3 is what's written down on my, my paper. Okay, in any context. No cleverness.

I'm just here to read the list. Okay, even if you do it at halftime. It's cool. It's still cool. But I feel like it's like too cool. Fellas, I need a number. Again, this includes game winners. I'm going to, I think two.

Guys, I got a job to do you. Do you think two? We'll go two. We'll save one. Too safe. Buzzard Beer 3 goes number two. Next up, the Boston Celtics. Five.

Hell, wow. Hell no. You think racism is cool? No. Oh, okay. Five. Five. It's going to be the worst thing we see.

I'm like, you have to start standing on something. I'm standing on racism not being cool. Fair. He did stand on that immediately. He stood up instantly. You got to back you guys. Even if it involves back in racism, you got to do it.

It's you in Boston against the world. What's the next item? Next up. LeBron James. One. There's one for real. Better than buzzer beaded trees. He's had plenty of them.

Nothing hits like for all trades. He's pissed on the Celtics so many times before. That's cool as fuck too. One. Yeah, it's like a hit of LeBron. We're going to one for Bron. Next up, the fourth thing. The other LeBron James.

Brony? What do you feel right now? Four? Okay. It's cool. Still blowing himself. The Lakers apparently, like, they don't want to trade him. You don't want to, like, over at all.

I'm in the mind as well keep his money guarantee He'd say four It's cool So four So one you have LeBron James Two buzzer breeder three's Three is open Four is the other Lebron James

And five is the Boston Celtics Last thing slottling in at number three Derek Rose's ACL tear Ooh That's apparently better than the other Lebron James So look in the camera Donovan and tell Brony James at home

That you think he is worse In Derek Rose's Acelter He lives in Chicago too man You're fin to get drive by I'm going to take it off of them They're looking for them Thank you Come on

Man The GDs are here, man I'm good All that man They're trying to find them They said eat the dirt I was set up I was set up

You don't care about my life I took no part of that that's what it is. Last thing we're going to do today, Bleacher Report put out one of their historic lists, something we love to react to and tell you guys whether we think it's good or bad. Today we're reacting to Bleach Report's list of the top 99 defenders in NBA history. They couldn't go to the extra hundred? Nope, 99, cooler.

This is lazy, bro. They don't want them bad enough? So Be Souls will show us a player in NBA history. We guess where they rank in the top 99 defenders of all time. All right. First player. Drew Holiday He's been top 30 for sure

I think Drew gets a lot of credit They're gonna put Drew Top 20 Do you think they skew towards Biggs Or they give guards their fair share I think they will skew towards Biggs But also Drew Holiday has such a high reputation I think like 18 might be

I think you're on the right range I'll go 21 I think there's like 13 Hall of Fame centers That defend like that They gotta be on there He can be the 6th or 7th guard Okay I can see that He's an anomaly like

during over the last like seven years when the old podcast when you came out one thing that players would always do is give you a horror story about Drew Holiday and be like he's the most underrated player in the league and yada yada yada yada

honestly I think it might be like 15 or so I think that that's tough it's glazed I go 18 21 okay it is 35 okay fair yeah makes it there's a lot of defensive bigs and wings there's a lot of defenders in NBA history

okay next OG An Anobie oh I don't know like 80 Like he's probably buried on the list Yeah, I'll say he's I won't say 80 but they can say like 50 Yeah, go 60 Okay

61 It is 86 Okay there you go Salute And that makes sense You know he's had a couple All time defensive seasons

Wanted championship being the best defensive player on a team and being so important That cracks you in the top 100 But what is there like 50 DPO Y winners in history Yeah Yeah but I mean With like repeats and stuff Yeah that was because there's

Yeah 80 seasons. Yeah, I don't know, whatever. He hasn't made, like, defense. Probably 40 DPOI winners. So that makes sense, I guess. Okay, next. Bill Russell.

Oh, that's top five. I think one. Yeah, one or two. Let's go one. Surely there's a given one, right? Say three. If it's not one or two, we riots. We send Bill Simmons to their door with a pitchfork.

It is. And Ben Affleck with a bazook with a bazook. One. Okay, cool. Perfect. Ben Affleck put the heat down. You're good. Matt Damon, stand down.

We're all right. We're good. You're good, bro. Stay on the press door. Shaquille O'Neill. Top 100 defenders? I mean, Pichshack. You can defend, but like...

Yeah, Pekshack had some years where he was voted as a DPOY candidate. So he hired an O.G? Or he was all defense. I think so, especially because he's a big. I think... I'm guessing like 55. 51.

61. 67. it is 71 fair okay they're not glazing just by the name he should be around there that makes sense

shouldn't be too high okay he's gonna be mad he'll be mad about everything why was no one Kevin Garnett just top five

yeah Bill Russell was one who do you think is two probably Hakeem or Duncan yeah Hakeem Duncan I think they're probably doing some hot take and saying he's higher

than Duncan so he's top four at least I'm gonna say four you want to say three three or two you pick one I'll pick one I'll go three I'll go four

I'll go number three overall I think it's Bill Russell probably Hakeem Kevin Garnett Kevin Garnett is number three there we go yeah there they go there we go and you know what fair okay who am I to argue with the big ticket

can't can't do it now I wonder who's two LeBron higher than Shack right definitely yeah for sure I think 35 the Jew holiday was a 36thum yeah

Okay. I think like they might get wrong. Say 40. Yeah. Like 42. Yeah. Would it be glaze if I said, would it be glaze of me knowing Drew Holiday 36 pulled LeBron over him?

Would that be glazed? No. No. I don't think so. 31. 31? It is. 22.

Yep. But highly drew holiday. Deserved. Doesn't have the accolades obviously because he focuses on offense too, but among offensive creators, one of the highest defensive peaks of all time, got robbed by Markasol of his DPOI. I'm with it. That's pretty high.

I can't be mad at it. In fact, give him number two overall. Is that glazed? No. Give number one overall. A little bit. It's too much. All right.

All right. Let's test my limits. Seeing where the glaze lines are. Seeing how much I can get away with. The glaze lines. Now I know. Number two. Michael Jordan.

He better be lower than LeBron. He's not. He's not. They're going to give him tired. I'm going to 15. Where did they put him one above LeBron to be petty? 21 you say 20 15 15 on the dot

wow okay that's ridiculous 15 is so hot that's ridiculous sniper I mean he's a DPOI winner so I get it I get they're gonna the history says the DPI winner so that's glazo okay okay you gotta respect it do you think Obert is gonna be lower than him no gober should be higher than my board I think

I think Obear is gonna be top of him yeah he asked absolutely be taught to him I agree but we'll see what this list has for us Next. First team all defense, Tony Allen. I think he's going to be 21. I think he's going to be a spot of belt in LeBron. Let's say 26. Let's go 20.

Edge out, Donovan. Oh, 23. 23, okay. Right below LeBron. So we were all in the right general direction. That makes sense. Similar caliber defender of LeBron? Fair.

Okay. Next. Wemby. Are they? Is this a peak or a resume list? I'm not, I'm not sure. I feel like he's leaning towards resume. Are we?

put in him top 10 top 10 he has a DPOI already we just got to know the thesis this list though are they trying to say the best version or what you've earned in your career we don't know but let's tell us that honestly okay 17 I'm gonna say I'm gonna say perfectly 10 I'm gonna say 7

36 okay so they say you gotta do it for many years to earn there okay fair okay next I can't be mad at it is it drew holidays better Joel and Bid If Wemby Shack was 76?

Yeah Shack was 71 I'm gonna say Joel is 63 48 52 Joe L and Bid is 91

Oh damn Barely on that bitch He definitely had a higher defensive peek in shack Oh my goodness He definitely had a higher defensive peak than shack But especially the last couple years With the injuries they see the slowdown Yeah and they're holding against them

And they have been taxing I guess Alright next That's crazy Larry Bird Man 99 Yeah

I'm gonna say 96 They definitely put Larry Bird above Joel and Bede I'll say 79 70 Yeah I do it They definitely put them above

This is glades I'm not going to line And above Shaq I mean Larry Bird's a good defender I don't know That's fine I guess 20 spots

Above Joele and Bede No Shaq was Oh yeah Shaq was 71 Yeah. So yeah, 20 spots above Embed. That's because they hate Embed. It's not even about labor.

They're just hoeing and beating. That's what it is. Yeah, the MB thing is crazy to me. All right, next. Alex Caruso. Ooh, a championship off of defense. They love that. Hey, man, they love it.

I think he's 13. Probably. Probably. Really speaking, they should put him at like 30. 37 or something like that. 44. So I see.

He might be above Drew Holiday. I think right below. I'm gonna go 33. Okay, right below Drew Holiday by a tier to 44. Dollar way off is 75. Okay. Hell no. Yeah, I know.

That bird over him. I mean, bird's a good defender. I'm not gonna act like bird. He's not Caruso, though. It's just because Caruso doesn't have anything else. That's what we remember. Yeah. Yeah.

He does. He puts all his energy there. Yeah. Okay. Next. Rudy Gobert. This is eight. He has to be top ten.

Eight. He's got to be top ten. If he's lower, Michael Jordan is 15. If he's lower than Michael Jordan, that's hilarious. I'm going to say that you're giving him six, yeah.

I'll go ahead. They're paying respects. Okay. Rudy Gobert is nine. Okay, fair. They didn't hate on him too much. They respect the DPO. You're in the top ten?

That's fine. And that's good. We need reputable lists, such as the bleach report, top 99 defenders of all time. B.R. The list that people care about. The people care about.

We need to respect Rudy Gobert. They've been kind of, respectable this year, man. Yeah, they've been hitting. Okay. Yeah. No more rage baiting. Next. D. Wade.

What the hell? I promise 22. 94. He's on there, but. Well, he's a very good shot blocking guard, and that might matter. And end of sentence.

I'm going to go 68. I'm going to say above birds. 77. Donovan was very close. 67. Okay. Nice. I don't think he should be above birds. necessarily.

I think the highlights of him being a shot blocker. A bit more sound, I get it. Fair enough. Next. Ben Simmons had a high defensive peak. That's so funny. They're going to put him above Joelle and Bede, above 91.

It's called 85. I'm just say 73. Short peak, though, right? Yeah. He should be above Larry Bird. Should be probably above Wade. But he not. Probably won't be, though.

I'll go 63. to where I think you should be. It is. 94. Okay, short peak they got him barely on the list. But at least they put him on there, even though he fizzled out fast.

Respect, okay. Fair. Next. Wilk Chamberlain, two. I don't think he's, I'll put him at five. Yeah,

I mean, I think Tim, I think the five is going to be because you have Bill, Tim, Hakeem, I feel like the Kimbe is going to be super high.

KG was three. Remember that? KG. Five's a good guess. Probably after those guys. they're going to put wilt there just because he has so many blocks and stuff so six i'll go five i'll go five or metumbo i bet they put him five i'll go five okay well it's 18 wow i'm glad they didn't glaze that's that's correct he wasn't an amazing defender correct

i assume they glazed because everybody glazes his wilt yeah and i just got like 82 and o'brian i guess still assuming everyone thinks he's got 18 is a very respectable position perfect all right next Colby Bryant He's gonna So Brown was what Brown was 22? 22 I think he's below

25 He's definitely below Brian But honestly They've been They've been very realistic about this You're right They have 40 Yeah 41

Mom You say 38 All correct It is 42 Okay Look at them Being realistic And you know what

Being one of the best Offensive players Ever in the 42nd Best defensive player That's how you get to be top 10 player of all time. That's realistic, not glaze. Yep.

All right, next. Draymond Green. Oh, he better be. Rudy Gobert was nine. Yeah. He's either 10 or 8. They're going to put him right next to him. Do we think he's slightly better or slightly worse?

Probably better. I'm going to give him 8. 8 is. 8 is. It'll be funny. 10. Damn. Right after Gobert.

Okay. I knew they'd be right next to. I knew they'd be right next to. Where did they put Wembe at? 36 or 36. They're actually messed up for this. Goberra over Dr. That's not crazy.

It's a four-time Dramon. Dremont's gonna talk about this on the body. That's what I feel like you put Rudy's life in danger. Dreyman's gonna talk about everything. He put a turn on his back. And next all start weekend when he sees him. Exactly. Take this fucking knee.

It's gonna chirp him. Just to be on the cord. You just put a battery in his back. He's done more for less. Yeah, he'll be a little slap for this. True. All right, a couple more here. Yannis.

Oh, we should be hot. D.P.O. Is he top 10? No, not top 10. But he should be higher than LeBron. He's the only MVP DPOY. They probably with Jordan. They probably put him near Jordan at 15.

You think 11? 17. 11 or 12? I bet he's right below Jordan, but he should be right above him. He's probably above. I'm going to say 12. If we think he's above, I'll go 14. I'll go 17.

Oh. You are correct. It is 17. That's what I thought it was too. I thought they put him right below Jordan, which is rage bait. Yeah. Okay. Rage bait.

Don't love it, but it'll be all right. All right. Tim Duncan. You think he's two about KG or is he four? I think they give him two. I think I'm, I think I'm going to say four. I think they made,

like you said, they made the stand of KG over Tim. Yeah. So I'll say four for Tim Duncan. I agree with you. Number four. Tim Duncan is two. Oh, so Hakeem must be number four.

Okay. They make no stands. I love. Hakeem is next. Four. Four. Okay. Okay.

Yep. Hakeem is four. Okay. Okay. So that's the top four. Who's number five? Number five? Let me see.

If you know what the list pulled up, it's fine. It might be Matumbo, like you said. Or Rodman, maybe. Number five is Ben Wallace. Yeah. Valid. Fair. Yeah, he's up there.

Fair. Okay. Last one. Marcus Smart. That is a DPOI. I'm going to say, where was OGN and Ovi at? 80 something.

But he has a DIPO Y. Drew Holliday was 36. Is he above or below Drew Holiday? But the P. wasn't that long, though, too. It wasn't. But he has the DPOY. 33 for Marcus Smart.

33? I'll go with you. 33 sounds like they probably, actually I bet they want to say we are a publication that knows that Drew Holiday was always better and Marcus Smart didn't deserve that. That was Robert Williams

or Janice's DPOI, so we're really going to put them a lot lower. 50. I'm going to say 53. Moe, strikes again. 54. Whoa. Okay, fair.

Yep. Smart. Okay, this is the stand that they made. They've grown. Stolen it. Strait. DPOI. Stolen value. The honest didn't went back to back. I like what they're doing. Actually, that was

20, 21, wasn't it? So, you honestly, I got another one, but it wasn't back to back. What was it? Did he get 20 or 19? I think you got 13. I think so. Yeah, probably. A couple notables that have Dennis Rodman at 7, Scotty Pippen at 8. Okay. Fair. Can't be mad at it.

Yeah. They have Kauai at 12, Dwight at 13. And you're paying at 14. Okay. So I'll do it. Cream 16. There you go. And that is the end of episode. If people are still here, what should they comment? Oh, comment. Never. I was going to say comment the GDs are after Don't do that. We don't need the comments

full of GDs. Now we're going to have much 12 world to Google what GDs are. Yeah. No. You know what? We'll leave that that. We'll see y'all next week.