The Deep 3 Podcast - Reacting To Game 2 Of The NBA Finals! | TD3 Live

Episode Date: June 10, 2024

Support the stream: https://streamlabs.com/thedeep3pod Today we react to all the latest NBA news! Check out the TD3 merch: https://the-deep-3-shop.fourthwall.com/ Join the TD3 discord!: https://discord.gg/RUkjpMPp7E Listen on Spotify!: https://open.spotify.com/show/3elbbqVumwqz8wlIdknsLW Listen on Apple Podcasts!: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-deep-3-podcast/id1657940794 Follow us on TikTok!: https://www.tiktok.com/@thedeepthree Follow us on Instagram!: https://www.instagram.com/thedeep3podcast/ Isaac's twitter: https://twitter.com/byisaacg Muhamed's twitter: https://twitter.com/Mojo99_ Donnavan's twitter: https://twitter.com/Dsmoot3D Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

y'all i believe they're live i believe they can hear you we're here we are here potentially let's go i like that oh my god crayon eaters eaters where are the real eaters are you kidding me right now i'm looking at a whole week i'm looking at the chat seems to go live there of course of course they're in here debating jason tatum the topic of the day on mba twitter NBA, YouTube, NBA, everything, is Jason Tatum a bum? We'll talk about that plenty later in the stream. We are going to have this conversation every week, every opportunity we have. We're going to have the Jason Tatum manifesto because it really just depends on the game.

It's fun. I'm actually, I'm not going to lie. It is kind of fun because I can see on both sides where everybody's getting their points. Don't agree with everybody. I can kind of see the logic You know what the best part is We're going to be doing this shit all summer Especially they win

All summer Yes All summer 24 Jason Tatum discourse You can't Unless he just turns up Unless he actually plays the way that Like we think Jason Tatum should play Over the last

Three games of the series Um You know Before we start this stream Two housekeeping rules All the years watching the stream right now we have over 265 you guys, I believe, and we don't even have 50 likes. That is a damn shame.

We got 53. We don't even have 63, though. That still is a damn shame. Second. Someone said Donovan's running an EDP uniform. I saw that. Wait. Listen, Don't attribute that to me.

That's not me. Oh, that's a nasty title in 2024. Holy shit. That's not me. That's a nasty title. What it is, is a reminder of greatness. We've never seen anybody turn up the way Nick Foles did in 2017. It was an amazing run.

That's what that is. Shut up in high school back then. Tricious. Listen, we're going to talk plenty of Celtics versus Mavs today. Reacting to Game 2, like we say in the title. But before we do that, we got our typical document full of news stories today to talk through. and the first biggest new story of the day which I'm sure as you guys all expect

Yukon coach Dan Hurley told the Lakers thank you but no thank you I'm gonna stick to my college team and I'm gonna try to win three in a row you keep your six million six year $70 million offer I'm going back to Connecticut what was your reaction of this what was your reaction to this

this is your team we don't give a fuck yeah I have I have thoughts but this directly impacted your mental health for the next year. I will show you my reaction to this was, because if you follow me on Twitter, everybody saw it.

You guys can't hear this right now because I don't have the audio coming through. But there's a Drake song in the background of this, a very sad one, accompanying this gift of Naruto falling to the snow. That is precisely how I felt this morning. Oh, my gosh. So when this whole news,

and when this whole, like, news broke out in general of him being, like, a real candidate, like last week or so, you were like so happy, so giddy because you're like, finally, we can go ahead and set up a real system and have a real culture in place and all that. You were happy nonetheless because of just the, you know, the true nature of Lakerhead coaches over the last 10 years. I was cautiously optimistic of the prospect of my team I root for making sense and behaving in a way in which one might describe as smart. It seemed like they were finally doing something that made sense. They're choosing to build an identity, choosing to go out for a coach.

They did. And they went after him. Yeah, they did. They offered him $6,000 or $7 million, which isn't the barn burning huge number he can't refuse that have reported that it might be. It's sizable. He would have been the six highest paid coach in the league. Some people were saying they cheaped out. They didn't even give him onto Williams money.

You know, he is still a first-time head coach, so I guess you can't make him like as high paid as like Eric Spolstra or Steve Kerr or whatever. But if they really wanted him, they could have paid him more. So I don't know. Maybe they fumbled a little bit. I think, yeah, so I have a couple things. One, I do think that they did fumble. I think if you are going to say, okay, like we are going to back up the brink's truck and you are trying to pull a guy away from probably the most comfortable position

in all of college basketball coming off the back-to-back national titles, he at least has to be top five highest pay coaches. Like he has to, maybe even top three. Like that has to be, that has to be there. That's one. Yeah, I guess. It is a person. You have to.

We've seen, again, we've seen other guys come in and make massive, massive money. And if the word on the street is that, hey, we're going to back up the Brinks truck and it's not top five, top three. Then it's like, okay, then were we actually ever really serious? I would have liked to see the money a little bit more from the Lakers. And two, Dan Hurley knows all money is not smart money and all jobs are not created equal. and do I want to go back to this place where, again, I've won back-to-back national championships, I have complete control over my program and really how we run it? Or do I want to go into the most stressful job in the NBA where I'm probably only going to last two years

because after LeBron leaves, everything once again is going to be a brand new cycle, and I'm going to be under massive pressure every single night? No, I think I'll stay at Yukon. I respect him staying there and not just chasing whatever, bad because it's probably not as good of a situation as you may think. I disagree with that. Two years down the line. Mo.

Can I put my conspiracy theory's hat on real quick? Do you approve? Getting your bag. What did you notice? I saw cam, please. I so can't please. I so can't please. For weeks, Shams Serania, a respected reporter, reported that it was all but a sealed deal

that JJ Reddick would be the coach of this team. He came out and said, they're finalizing a deal in which this is likely going to happen. Adrian Wojurowski swoops in and says nah. They actually have wanted Dan Hurley from the start. We just haven't heard about it for some reason. It's been highly publicized who their list

is. Dan Hurley's never been on it. They've never interviewed Dan Hurley until now, three weeks into their coaching search, but they've wanted him from the starts. Shams, you don't know anything. All of Twitter was like, damn. Shams doesn't know anything. He's washed. He's stupid. He lied to us. Then, they go through all this

rigumor roll. Ann Hurley gets his offer, puts pressure on Yukon to get a pay raise, and do all this stuff, and test the waters, ends up staying with Yukon. Once again, we are back at JJ Reddick being their top choice, most likely, and the Lakers were able to, maybe now, hire their guy in Jay J.J. Reddick, and say, we went through it, we did our due diligence. We tried to hire a guy of experience. You can't get mad at us for hiring the new guy, because we try to do the right thing. Did we know that he was probably going to stay back home in a situation that he, why would he want to leave? maybe, but we tried. Agent Wozorowski gets to help this guy do negotiations because people leak news to Woj for a reason because they know they can use him to do public negotiations. Shams gets to be right.

He gets to pay raise. The Lakers get to look smart and end up choosing the guy they wanted and keep the Ron happy. Everybody wins. Eaters. Did you notice that? Noticing.

the thinking cap is on the noticing cap is on that sounds like the ultimate smoke screen dirty moves are being played under the table nothing to excite all lakers fans and really just manipulate people bosses into giving workers like dan hurley and everybody else what they really want more many at the end of day and if that's storage you want that you want to row it i'm okay with it's hilarious listen dan hurley i'm sure he do do delicious and I'm sure he considered it. How could you not? But I think, I don't think Sean, okay, first of all, shout out to Philly Loving Ginger for donating $100. This is King Noticer,

Philly Loving Ginger. Shout out you, man. We'll get to the rest of donations in a second after the, but we'll wrap up the segment, but got to call out Philly Loving Ginger. What, as I was saying,

I'm sure Dan Hurley considered it, and I'm sure the Lakers were serious about wanting him, but I'm also sure that they saw everybody saying, how are you going after JJ Reddick and not looking for a more experience coach? so I'm sure they threw their name in the hat

to try and get down early knowing it was a long shot and knowing they can go back to JJ Reddick so I don't think I don't think Shams was fraudulent for reporting the J.J. Redic stuff I think they really did want him before they saw the backlash. Coat.

I don't think it's cool. I think it's me knowing this franchise moves in a very unprofessional, very not thorough way and seeing through the smokescreen of knowing this Lakers front office, knowing how Jeannie Bus operates, and knowing they are not the best run team in the world, to say the least, I think it's seeing reality. Do you think that them being an unsuriously ran franchise basically manifested

themselves and not offering Dan Hurley the bag that he probably should have gotten? I don't know if they can afford it. I feel like this team is just like operate within their means at this point. Like, they're not the richest owners in the world. Like, they just might not have the bread to operate like the clippers can or like the warriors can or whatever like their mom and pop shop like this is their business they're not billionaires from outside of basketball they make their money through the lakers that's a different type of bread than usually steve balmer who is one of the richest men in the country they all play on different sets of rules i've seen winning time i know what owners can do you know i know that they can go on and get the thing about

the old days the thing about the old days they are the old days for the lakers dr bus is not walking through those doors. Now, but I, okay, I do agree. I think that the Lakers did actually, like, go after JJ. Walsh tweeted, he said, you know, that James Borago is expected to, oh, my bad, James Varego is expected to remain part of the group, and Lakers could do their first formal interview with JJ Reddy. So, right, like, we'll see how that kind of plays out.

But at the same time, like I said, if you go back I guess post Luke Walton the 10 years it's only been two coaches in five years which is like not great

but there was a reason for each one of them to be fired I'm not going to act like they were just fired out of the blue but the whole tenure or the second half

of the tenure for Frank Vogel kind of rocky right the second I would say one and a half out of the two years

that Darwin Ham was head coach was very Rocky. And again, do you want to face the type of criticism that they went through on a day-to-day basis because you didn't play the ninth man eight more minutes? And while that happened for every NBA franchise, it's the Lakers and they are the most famous franchise in the world. So you're going to be hearing that and it's going to be an immense amount of pressure with LeBron going into year 40, Anthony Davis, I mean year 40, LeBron turning 40, Anthony Davis going into his 30s now and you don't necessarily know what you're going to get. And I think that if you can

take this, take this opportunity, continue to be at a stable job where you run everything and don't have to be at the whim. Also, don't have to go through the is LeBron leaving is LeBron staying thing the entire year in your first year on the job. I think it's 100% reasonable to think that that Dan Hurley just looked at the situation was like, no, I just don't want to do it like that. I guess I think it really just comes down to Yukon is where he wants to be. Winning three in a row is a huge deal. It seems like he was interested in the Lakers job. I don't, I think the downsides are a lot more dramatic from fan perspective than his from a coach perspective. Because coaches

probably believe they can play a big part in fixing those things. But you're right. At the day, there is concerns and Yukon is the perfect job for him. So wildly perfect if it's not for a ridiculous bag. Now that this chapter is closed and Dan Hurley is clearly not going to be the Lakers head coach. Who do you guys think is like the actual next best option? I was going to say, chat, what do you guys think? Chat, spam it up. Answer most question.

Who do you guys want to see Coach the Lakers? Whether it be from a Lakers fan perspective or just chaos, who do you want to see coach this team? What do you think, Mo? Mo, you answer your own question, Moe, who do you want to see? Thanks. Who do I want to see? I mean, for comedy purposes,

I would want to see, like, Jay, J. Reddick, because of all the things we talked about earlier, of course, like the relationship with Ron, the narrative is going to get really nasty and all that. But I think we touch on us a tad bit either on the last spot or live stream. But JJ Reddick just seems like a really, like, irritable personality. We see how we just react to some of the stuff that he sees on Twitter and YouTube comments or whatever it might be. And knowing how tapped in and deep into weeds he is with Twitter and just the basketball world, he's going to have so many fines.

out the while he's going to get ejected i feel like he's the type person get ejected so many times throughout the course of an 82 game season so he's not like he's not this like crazy madman that's going to be like throwing chairs and stuff like i think he might it will be that but he'll be i think he'll be pretty like whatever the modern equivalent is whatever the modern equivalent is for a coach he's not he's not he's not getting objected like he's not in today's league like consistent consistently okay well i mean obviously not like obviously not like every other game but you know like great Popovich gets rejected for argument sometimes like enough like every season he'll get ejected like type of shit like I think he'd be that type of a guy he

I think there people jokingly or not say like oh could he be the next Pat Riley and I think who identify some uh well one that just means like an unknown non-experienced coach coming to a team and just like taking off so they're kind of hoping for that but there's some personality similarities there I think the firiness and the you know like comfortable amount of arrogance you need I think you see that in J.J. Reddick, too. Exactly. I saw somebody tweet today that, like, we're in the NBA finals, and J.J. Reddick is talking about high quadrant isos.

They're like, get this nerd off my TV, give them the job. Someone's like, I just want to hear, Kyrie, may I have this dance? Yeah, I'm so accurate. Oh, God. Another conversation for another day, but that's how NBA fans are conditioned. I'm seeing a lot of it. In moderation. for sure.

I'm thinking in the comments, people are spamming a coach they want to see. I've been thinking a lot of Frank Vogel. And I saw a tweet someone said, the worst case scenario

is imagine Borego and Reddick both don't feel comfortable being the second option. And they both say, fuck you, you went for Hurley. I don't want to do this anymore.

And then everybody else has taken up and suddenly Frank Vogel is the best option available. That would be just stupidest of the shit ever. What is it? What are you talking about?

If the Lakers offer any one of them a job. What? If the Lakers will offer any one of them a job, they're taking it. What are we doing here? You're not going to be scorned.

I'm not going to be scorned. You didn't want me first. Yeah. Yeah, no. Anyone who gives who, who's seriously offered a real contract towards the Lakers, they're not taking it, bro. It would be like, I don't want to say like career suicide, but it's a prime time opportunity to go ahead and prove yourself as a coach.

If any one of these dudes were to take this opportunity and post-Lebron era develop some type of time. or have whatever type of success that you envision with LeBron during his last few years as a Laker, this is going to be a massive win on their career resume. And they're set to have a super long, 23-year potentially however long they want career as a head coach. Someone's like calling Adrian Griffin. Good Lord. We're lost for sure.

If JJ Reddick signed this contract, it would be in terms of like on a per year basis, It would be, actually no, crazy. It would be one of the biggest contracts of his career. Like, he signed, he signed, like, multiple, like, one-year deals, like, for, like, $12 million. So he signed a one-year deal in 2018 for $20 million, I think, in the end. Yeah, he had a, in 2017, another one-year deal for $23 million. But, like, anything over two years, right, this is going to be his biggest contract. Like, if you go and you tell him, hey, do you want to make $70 million?

J.J. Reddick is 100% taking that money. Boy, then also not going to give him the same money. They're not giving them that much money for a rookie coach. Now, that I would be scoring by. That I would be like, all, listen, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm in, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, he's never, I'm going to need at least 60. Then you're going to keep podcasting, motherfucker, because that is, that is unbelievable. You can't tell everybody that you're willing to pay 70.

You can't give me 60. Yes, you can. You're not, Dan Hurley. I know, I know, I know, back to back national champion. My friend wants me to coach. You give me what I want. That's the leverage Yeah man

We'll see what happens As a Lakers fan I said it before I'm done in Hurley news I'm fine with JJ Redick I'm cool with taking that swing I think he's a smart guy Knows he's doing

Has experience in a locker room Of course it'd be nice If he was an assistant coach At some point There's no perfect candidate out there So I think it's cool To take that swing But we'll see

Just please don't be JJ James Brego I would fucking hate that Why Taylan in the chat says Mo can you say happy birthday Happy birthday Congratulations Another year

there we go we're gonna move on to the next topic while I do that I'm gonna read off some donations and while I read up donations chat we're at

235 likes can we hit 350 I think we can't shout out to KG for tipping $20 oh it's Kevin Galicki

he said let's fucking go Celtics about the sweep we'll talk about that soon we'll talk about it soon just hold on everybody we're gonna get the final stock shout out to Jack

for tipping $3 said F the Celtics nice shout out the Ferris 22 for tipping $10. Said, haven't been able to catch a stream in a while, just got done with work and listened to old pods the whole time.

Listen, we appreciate you making it here now. Shout out to Matthew for tipping $5. Everyone wins except the Lakers won't lost record. Fax. Shout to Owen for tipping $3. He said, Carrie out here building houses for the homeless in Boston. What a man.

Those bricks are being laid. Shout to Walking 37 for tipping $2. Shout to Matthew for tipping $10. Much like the Celtics, Don loves a cupcake on his schedule. Han Hurley, he looked at the Lakers and decided he liked winning. I don't know what the cupcake thing means. Oh, you're not tapped in.

Donovan, do you know what it means? It's a, it's a, it's a, it's a repensit. Exactly, it's reference. Oh. It's a meme. Shout out to a non-for-tip in $10. Why is JT getting all the slander when Kyrie, statistically and visually, is not a top-five player in the series so far?

Yeah, we'll get to that too. that later. We have a lot of Kyrie thoughts to come get to. Next news story. We'll quick. Keeping on coaching news. Darwin Ham is now

the top assistant on the Bucks again, going back to his old job. Good for Darvinham. Doc Rivers got his boy. Adding depth to that bench. Congratulations. Well, importantly, Yonis got his boy. He got this job at the Lakers

in the first place because he was very successful as a head coach there. I mean, as the lead assistant with the Bucks, in large part to his relationship with the players. He was like the locker room, and president of coach Bud. They need that again.

So good fit going back to he was successful before. I agree. Donner gave us a smooth thumbs up. Shout out to your exes, man. All right, let's have some more nasty discourse. Shout out to your exes. Shout out to going back, finding a home.

The Pistons are expected to offer Kade Cunningham a five-year, $226 million extension. There's been lots of discourse about, is this too much money? What do you think? If you're the Pistons, would you max out Kahnham?

Cunningham? What other option do you have? I don't know. Restricted free agency is a thing. I feel like teams these days have kind of gotten away from using it and like everybody gets to Max these days no matter what you've done. If you're a high draft pick and you've been decent,

you're getting that fucking Max right away. They didn't do that with Tyrese Maxie. They waited and then he earned it. Maybe there could be a case that, you know, Cid's been good. It hasn't been amazing. There could be a case for letting him prove in his contract year and still eventually giving the max once he proves that.

not jump in the gun. Yeah, like... Could be a case. I don't really give a fuck either way, so I'm fine with it, but there could be a case. It's hard to say, like, oh, he deserves it because, like,

what has he done? But also at the same time, while you look at the other side of the coin, like what has the Detroit Pinson done in general? Absolutely nothing, but somehow get worse

and worse every year. They figure out to do the impossible. Pretty impressive. So with that being said, like, if I were then, I'd probably just want to let him test free agency and, you know, of course they have the closet so they can re-sign them on whatever

team throws them my bag. But that sounds like a steep investment, steep investment. I would not do that if I was the Detroit Pistons. You have absolutely nothing. You have no right. You have nothing to stand on to sit here and tell somebody you have not earned anything. They suck. They suck.

And if you take away Kate Cunningham from this roster, you are, setting it back several years and it's one thing if you're like, hey, we're going to trade Kate Cunningham, get a couple of assets back. If you just severed this relationship where you guys have been the worst team in the league for the last five seasons and have no direction and you just gave Monty Williams a million dollars every second for his contract, I don't think you can look Kate Cunningham in the face and tell him not to give him the max, especially you went around the league other guys Lamella Ball, all these

other guys have gotten their contracts as soon as it was time for them to get their extension. No one's saying separate though. No one's saying don't sign them. I'm saying if you don't offer it to him right now, I do think that like, like, hey, he'll be like, yo, like what's going on? Like Mo said,

what have y'all done for me to where my development is going up, up, up, where you guys are playing me with bums for the last, you know, four or five years. and this is what we're doing like okay I see how it is the problem that the fact that you're right he would feel that way because this has become the norm to just like pay guys immediately I understand and I get they're not they're gonna pay him regardless so I guess the point is like why wait just get it over with keep the relationship keep encouraging him and

empowering him to do well but I mean it's kind of weird that every top we've gone to the point of NBA culture that every pick is assumed to be a max like nobody has value contracts anymore because nobody has to earn it in that way. And, like, he's been great. He's not been $40 million a year great. We can assume he will be, so if you want to pay him, he's going to keep getting better, you have faith he'll become that guy.

But if he goes to another ho-hum year is looking solid, average is 23 or whatever, they're still not very good, and they can sign him to $35 million a year or whatever to, you know, get that long-term deal, but not do everything. That's something that would have happened in, like, a decade and a half ago

for some reason it doesn't anymore. And again, because it doesn't anywhere else, they can't do it to him you know, politics goes in cycles. But it is kind of weird that we're in that place where value contracts don't happen. Yeah, I totally agree with you. You mentioned Lamello Ball and Lamella was an all-star.

You know, he was all-star for a good reason too. And we obviously do these consistent strides in his game. Now, with that being said, Charlotte situation is nowhere comparable. Even though Charlotte situation is bad, like the tourist-pits situation makes Charlotte look like the best organization in the league, you know what I'm saying? that's how bad they look really so it's hard to judge kate cunningham although we haven't seen like

you know the top five 10 point guard potential that a lot of people thought he has had it's hard to like judge where how much he's worth yeah and again they're gonna do it they should do it they should pay for the upside that nothing else going for them but it's weird that it's like if you don't do it you're doing my practice like it's some strange we've gotten here in this place in NBA world i agree people in the chat are saying Logan's asking you you what's your thoughts on looks maxing done listen man you got to do what you got to do you know you have to be able to find advantages in your game and understand on the year by year basis right even on a day by day it's about getting one percent better every day right so you have to go in

right look yourself in the mirror and understand these are my flaws these are my weaknesses this is why i'm going to add to my game right call up drew handling get on instagram see what the trainers are doing, add that to your game. Five years, you two can get maxed out, right? You can get maxed out. So, is it Donovan definitely loves mewing? Fax. That's both.

We have Moe on film. Oh, Moza Mewers, for sure. There's no film. The Spurs are exploring the idea of potentially packaging number four and eight overall to move up to the Hawks number one pick. Do you want to see the Spurs to the number one pick and potentially select Alex Saar or Rishish. Now, the NBA fan of me, like,

woo-hoo, Webby, give him another pick. And then back to reality, as a Hawks fan, why the hell would you do another deal with the San Antonio Spurs? The organization that probably set back your organization another three years, four or five years, and it could cost you your future. Doesn't make any sense.

Four, eight, I wouldn't do that. I would do that this year. I would do that this year. If there was ever a, time for you to trade out of the number one pick it would be in this draft where everyone is like hey it's probably the worst draft that we've ever had and then at least you get two opportunities to get young talent in the door and you still have the ability to trade dejante and tray i think if you obviously know that you're starting a rebuild getting as many assets as possible sounds

kind of fire now i would do this yeah i would do this now i do that makes sense because all like you can get Donovan Klinger who's exactly will be a terrific hand and glove fit with the Atlanta Hawks. But two things. One thing, politics. It's a San Antonio Spurs. If this was the Portland Troveys or some random team, all right, we can get seriously talking.

But is the San Antonio Spurs is just the overall bad look league wide in my opinion. Another thing also is that if the Spurs were to sweetened the deal a little bit much, a little bit more and were to give us our own picks back. All right. Well, get the fuck out of here.

because this is enough already. Then that means no deal, no deal. Yeah, well, that means unrealistic ask from you and other Hawks fans. But if the Hawks... They want Klingin. Apparently, there's thoughts in that organization that they like Klingin.

They could take Klingin one. That wouldn't be unbelievable. Like, they could do that. Everybody, all the fans, although everybody else in media thinks Sars number one prospect, obviously, it's not like a Palo number one where he's clearly number one, right?

Like, you wouldn't be insane to take Klingin at one. So if that's your thought and you want to do it anyways, he'll be there, four most likely unless somebody trades up to number three with the rockets which is also a thought that could happen getting the eighth pick in exchange for still getting your guy like that's a home run if you can get him and then cody williams whoever may be whoever you pick at eight there's tons of options castle whatever that is a great deal to me if you're really deadson

on picking clinging yeah don't and like some of you all in the or i see one one person saying like clinging number one pick yes this is this is the draft to where if anybody thinks that like you know who's going to go number one overall you don't nobody likes this draft and at this point if you have like a locked in one two three four then you're just going off of the consensus but it's very very reasonable if somebody jumped up from five and got their guy at one if somebody jumped up at six to to get their guy at one most of the times we see people draft best player available nobody really knows who that is so you might as well draft for need this year and And if you can do that and get assets in the future for better drafts, that's the way to go.

I definitely understand that logic and it genuinely makes a whole lot of sense. But for the state that the Atlanta Hawks are in, I don't know if you can see someone like Alexar who can offer you things that is just pretty much for the most far unattainable out in the free market and also like in the trade market as well. under table you can't find or grab a player who have of that archetype or prospect or skill set I would rather swing the fence on him because the ceiling is just that much much higher but at the same time clean is just like he's so secure as a fit because of the immediate defensive impact and the passing and all that's something provides if they like saar and they see the vision of sar

being a star you take them but you know if there's a world where they don't like sar as much then I think it's definitely worth considering yeah and real real question for though like not not even trying to troll you said if you're in the state that the alana hawks are in what state are they in like are like are they keep so in your in your mind are they keeping trey are they keeping dejante are they starting fresh where are they in your mind as far as we all know today june 10th monday 24 tray staying um and you move with that intention and if tray staying i'm still taking uh someone like alexaur who can provide all the little things that he can provide today while also like banking on and preparing in the back

of your mind too like yo there's a chance that this 25 year old star point guard may actually like want to get traded soon so i think taking saw on that front is the one one on both ends because what if like clinging yeah speaking of the state they're in brett seagull reported that the hawker expected to make dionre hunter and cliquella available for trade what does that tell you about the state they're in do you think that's a win now move or a rebuild move i'm not sure it could go either way, I think. These guys suck, so it depends on what here, like, DeAndre, with DeAndre

Hunt are healthier or not, but we're reaching the same spot in the lottery, like, Clint Capella is a great player, but he's not taking us anywhere, you know? Yeah. These guys suck. That's hilarious. But yeah, I definitely think there's, if you like Saw, you pick Saar, it's a no-brainer. Because you imagine

like if they trade Capella and they could roll it lineups with Jalen, Saar, and Neku all out there at once. That's so much length of versatility. That would be amazing to flank Trey, whoever's at the two, assuming DeJante Murray's gone at least, which I could assume he will be.

But the spacing will be nasty, super nasty. Sure, let's assume they trade Dejante to whoever the fuck, I don't know. So you put Trey, 3 and D, 2 guard, Jalen, Tsar, Okongwu. That's fucking awesome. That's just fun. And somehow they're winning 41 games.

Oh, they wouldn't be that good. They'd just be fun. So it would be great. So you're just springing to that. idea out there just for the sake of your own name. All right. Or they start either one of the bigs and then have another three out there with Jayland the four, which is probably more likely. But seeing those lines would be cool. And like you said, they agree with you that SAR is a generational talent you can't get otherwise and makes all the

sense in the world. He's told him to not get caught up in labels of who's the best player or whatever, just be out there trying to win. And he said in my Lakers runs, I wasn't the best player on my team. How do you feel about Shaq's revisionist history? I mean, he wasn't. It was Kobe. Like, you know, I saw tweets the conversation. That's just how history is.

It's interesting. I saw tweets and people were like, people were getting annoyed by Shacks revisionism, post Kobe's death and all this type of stuff and how his tone changes. Do you find it disingenuous for Shack's stuff like this? Or do you think it's maturity in him changing his mind? A little bit of both.

I think like, I do think that the entire world has changed the tone about Kobe post death because before Kobe died, I didn't see anybody being like, oh, yeah, like he's 100% top 10, like solidified. You can't move him off that list. And then a year later, everybody was like, no, like he's, he's top 10. Like, he's probably top five depending on who you ask. And it's like, y'all, you guys weren't saying this over the last five, six years post-retirement. Like, that just wasn't the conversation.

And then for Shaq, like they had that conversation on TV and everything and they, you know, their relationship worked out. So it's a, it's a little bit of both. But he's also been on record saying like Phil's strategy was, you know, let Shaqie early, have Kobe finished the game. So there probably is a little bit of that. So. Yeah, I guess a problem. Is it, is it even if it is a visionism on Shaq's part? Is it even an issue? Like, is it, is it okay? Like, you know, like it's fine, right? Like at the day, you can say what he wants and if that's how he feels now. And if it's colored by what happened, so be it. What happened, happened, happened. you know, 100%. It's interesting that he was feeding this information to Dylan Brown because of the obvious this discourse and nasty air is going around the Celtics and prior to that I believe

one of the main reasons why Shaq said this is because Jason Kidd in a interview for some reason someone was talking to ask him a question about Jalen Brown. He was like, yeah, John Brown's their best player and that just caused a little riff through the NBA community. Speaking of Kobe,

Yeah. Alex Caruso got Kobe tatted on his leg. How do y'all feel about this? What would your reaction to this piece of art? This is the most random tatting ever, bro. Look at the ball on it. Is this like scabbed up or is it just like bad shading? Hey, man.

Listen, everybody has their inspirations, you know? You can't really, you can't really hate like that. This is kind of wild, though. I'm not going to lie. This is kind of wild. I don't know The shading is bad Like it's all the same

There's like it's all the same color It just doesn't look right on his skin I don't know why is this right Is this actually him? Yes Oh come on guys Yeah it's not NBA Cental I think this is real

This is real as can be It's not so one tattoos take a while to heal I don't know if this is new or not It might look better in a couple weeks I don't hate the idea of it Execution maybe wasn't flawless But I think it's a cool tattoo. On the leg like that, though.

On the leg like that, though? All right. I mean, it's a big piece. Where are you going to put it? It's a big piece. Yeah. Could have put it on his back or on his shoulder or on his arm or on his calf, but on a thigh like that? Damn.

All right. Somebody's spamming to talk about Paul George? No. There's nothing. What to Paul George? Nothing. Someone's asking all these questions about Paul George. George. Okay, I thought something happened.

All right, let's transition to finals talk via some of these stories I have. This is NBA.com's current finals MVP ladder. Drew Holiday 1. Luca Donchich 2. Jalen Brown 3, Jason Tatum 4, Chris Osperzingis 5. How does this look to y'all? This looks like a perfect list. Perfect. Drew Holiday 1? If the series ended today through two series,

Drew Holiday should be finals MVP. he had a he had a he had a good game in game one he played the best out of the celtics in game two his defense throughout both games has been fantastic and nobody else on boston again nobody's fault this is just how they're built but nobody else has come out and been the number one guy and so whoever plays the best right whoever has like the marginal edge you're probably going to get final MVP it doesn't have to be some massive referendum on jlin or jason or anything like that but in this series specifically, yeah, Drew Holiday has been the best and probably, what, the most impactful, Celtic?

No, no, not at all. He's just hitting the most open shots because, you know, wide open. The ball just finds him that way. Like, I don't think he's been doing anything necessarily different other than, like, what he does on the defensive end of course special. Yeah, that's different, different conversation. But offensively, like, the ball just happens to be in his hand, knocking down his shots. I think Jalen's been better overall off, like, offensively, because he's more of a force and does

more things on the ball with his hands. But defense, different conversation. But Jaylon also has been terrific defensively as well. All right, let's talk about the series. Let's start from the top. Time for Game 2 reaction. We all watched it last night. Celtics up 2-0. Luca Donchich, playing fantastic. Offensively. Defensively,

not so much. Everybody else on the Mavs? Bad. What are your thoughts? Well, you got it. I just took it, bro. I just drank some kombucha, and this is the nastiest thing ever. Oh, my God. But when I'm watching this game, I see Luca give his absolute all.

I think he had like four threes last night. He was like four from three, put up a three point triple double, all that he was doing his mightiest best impression of like what we saw the last 10, 15 years. He looked quite literally like LeBron James. and on sometimes it's like overall performance not like play style or whatever and no one was following up his lead at all it was him and just PJ Washington trying to hoop their ass off I believe outside of him in PJ Washington the next word hit the most amount of threes was Dante Exum and he only played like eight nine minutes no good for nothing he only

made one three yes it was that bad he only made one three bro outside of Luca, nobody in this series has hit more than one three. All right, let's talk about it. Okay, so good point. Let's talk about the Mavs first. Luca is looking as good as you'd want, right? We talked about it length after the first game. The Celtics are making him beat them one-on-one. They're not helping off him a ton. They're not blitzing him like they are against Jason Tatum. They're going like, you've got to beat us one-on-one. If you can create lobs at a thin air, do it. We fucking dare you. And he has to beat them as to score, and that's gone well. Before the series started, we said the Mavs only have a chance if Luca and

go fucking berserk and have an all-time great performance. One of those things has not been like the other. Donovan, what are you seeing at a Kyrie Irving? So in game one, I actually thought that he got a lot of good looks. I actually didn't think that he played terribly. I thought that he shot poorly, but I thought that the looks that he was able to get was fine. He got clamped up in game two.

He, like, we know that, we exactly. We know that Kyrie likes to take tough shots. He's one of the best, you know, tough shot takers slash makers in the league, all that stuff. He could only get tough shots. It wasn't a thing of like, I'm watching you make this move to get to this spot to take this jumper. It's more, I don't have any other option, but to take this fading turnaround jumper from 19 feet because Jalen Brown is hounding me, right? Drew Holiday is going crazy. Derek White's going crazy. Everybody's just being insane defenders. And there's nothing else that I can do. So he

himself is being out of character. He's being locked up. We've seen him have bad games this postseason. We'll see what happens in Dallas. I wouldn't say it's out of character. I think we've seen this from Kyrie a lot over the years. Most recently, in 2022, when this self-displayed him and did the exact same thing.

Kyrie Irving isn't as quick as he once was. He is incredibly skilled and obviously the best tough shot maker we have in the league outside of maybe Kevin Durant. But he doesn't create easy looks at all in the same way that many stars do with their physicality, right? So when your shot diet is entirely difficult shots and you face elite defenders like Jalen Brown and Drew Holiday that can make it hard to get those off, your downs are going to look really fucking down because there's no easy shots to make up for

it. So you're just clanking incredibly hard shots. It gives you a really fucking low floor. And this is exactly why Kyrie Irving has the lows he has throughout the years, why he went out sat against the Mavs last time, why he went outside his last year with the Celtics. this happens in time and time because you can only be a difficult shot maker for so long and the Celtics are switching all these pick and rolls putting Jason Tatum on the big man which has been working great

the pick and roll game has been essentially non-existent for both these guards so Kyrie has to ISO against the best perimeter defenders the conference the Eastern Conference has to handle that's not a good rescue for success for him no it's not it's a lot like you said it's a lot of length it's a lot of he also like

we know that the ball handling is crazy so he also like dribbles a lot and it takes a lot of work to be putting in it there's a reason why on 2k when you hit multiple dribble combos your fatigue goes down it's tiring it's tiring to be just dribble dribble dribble and play like julian newman it's probably why he's missing all these shots and i just i don't i don't know if there's anything that kairie can do outside of you're just going to have to make tough shots to get going because i don't there's no way that he's to be able to get free from Derek White. You can't get free from Drew Holiday. Those guys are never going to make easy. So it's like, yeah, Kyrie has to step up. He has to play better.

But everybody else has to play better as well. It's not just if we thought, okay, Luca and Kyrie, you guys are going to go crazy. And then have either PJ Washington or Derek Jones, Jr. or one of the guys off the bench come in and one of them can be solid. And then you probably have a chance in the last you know five six minutes yeah nobody is out here hooping at all and because people are asking what are our thoughts on game three what are predictions for the series i'll say this i don't believe the mabs have a way to counter the celtics and what they're doing if everything goes as planned i think this would be a swift ass whipping now they're going back home things change role players shoot better at home home whistle kairi and lucca do have the ability to go

fucking nuclear and break expectations so there is still the chance to come back and make it to one maybe two two and we have a series in our hands off of pure individual excellence but barring ridiculous play from those two i don't think they have anything left to counter and really stop what the subjects are doing to just destroy them defensively yeah i mean right after the game reporters asked like luca what he thought about the game and all that of stuff and he was like yeah like i just had too many turnovers and although like he had like eight turnovers or so no one would look at that game and be like yeah lucca and those turnovers really cost him the game that's like a that's the furthest thing from the truth it is the uh carrie irvings of the world not following up

it is a derrick jones juniors of the world being his all his athleticism and what makes him really special isn't special when you have a bunch of six seven to a seven three dude looking him right back in the eyes like in the paint whenever he's trying to get those sneaky backdoor lobs you know and all speaking of lobs all those lobs aren't that prominent because of the way dallas is playing luca and letting him just go one-on-one versus the tatum drew holidays, and Derek White's of the world. And like you said, I just don't know if they have enough counters, and I don't know if their role players have enough juice against a ton of, like,

some of the best role players in the entire NBA, whether it would be the Derek White, Drew Holidays, and some people are saying Jason Tatum's at the world. Chat, what do you guys think? Chat, let us know your guys as predictions as of now, how you think the series is going to go. Because, listen, all of us up here at the start of the series, didn't really think the math had a chance.

Like, I was like, listen, I'm gonna, I really want them to win. My brain tells me they're overmatched. And I'm, I want to bet on Lucas individual excellence. But these motherfuckers have six elite players. They have four elite perimeter players to switch onto these guards. They have Tenghis, Pinguish, who is the difference maker down low. There's a lot of ways that this could go really well for the Celtics and not so great for the Mavs. We're seeing that happen.

The biggest estimate to me is the Mavs, the Celtics didn't even shoot well. You know, game one, they had an avonics three years in the first quarter. quarter they shot like shit in this game and won wire to wire the maves never led it is hard to imagine a world where the mabs can make up for that much yeah yeah this is this is what everybody's been saying today is if everybody kind of penciled in even the people who thought that the south six would win in six like me you pencil in the mabs are going to get one of these games because the seltics are going to be trashed from three that was his game exactly exactly that game happened last night and the fact that you weren't able to capitalize on it that's so bad you have so many

limited opportunities when you are the underdog when you are fighting from behind and being again being down two oh and being tied one one are two massively different things the margins in all of these series are so close and to not get that game on the road and potentially go back to Dallas to go up up to one instead of avoiding a three oh deficit it's huge it's huge so So I think that this series is over. I don't see any way that Dallas can win four out of five games against Boston. And I still think maybe they can get two games, right? Maybe Boston is, they're the Boston that we've seen over and over again.

They're going to give up a game here or there and then we'll have the Luca game and Kyrie. Maybe that happens. Right now I'm leaning towards like we can cut a game off of the prediction and we can go Celtics and five. That's what it's feeling like right now. I'm going to say 66 and 7. I mean, Celtics and 6 for sure. Because I know Luke and Kyrie doesn't have... No, I picked the Celtics.

I picked the Celtics in 6. Yeah. I picked the Celtics for... Go ahead. I won't say it's over yet. We know, again, we know the ceiling of this Mavs team. They still have two games at home. We've...

Listen, if the Timberwood versus Nuggets series taught us anything, it's possible teams will take turns blowing each other out, even if you feel like one team shows. those all the advantage in the world in the first two games, not over yet. So I won't for sure say it's done, but you cannot feel good about it if you're a math fan.

Like there's only what you think you're betting on is outlier excellence by your stars. Yeah, and you can't escape the outlier excellence when you're missing like 10, eight free throws and you have that disparity going against your side, you know? And they just have to, one of my favorite sayings is like pick a struggle and they just couldn't pick a struggle.

they just decided to pick they decided to be worse at everything compared to the boss of Celtics They're not even their fault They're not playing terribly They could be shooting better The role players could be shooting better Kyrie could be shooting better

Kyrie could have more open shots They are getting fucking They're neutered Yeah Just getting destroyed By a team that's just so much bigger So much better Shoot so much better

Like know what the biggest testament is Every time a shot goes up By the Celtics Or either team And they're going for rebound I'm moving for the Mavs I'm fucking worried Because I feel like every rebound

ends up in a Celtics player's hands. They out rebound them every game because Tatum's big ass is so fucking versatile. He's such a good rebounder for a four. And obviously Drew Holliday is always crashing and making smart plays, getting boards.

Derek White, too. They destroy on the boards. Somehow they're just so graded it at playing up in size. Tatum's a big part of that. We know their perimeter defense of switching they can do, the size they have down low.

KP just reaches a hand-up, blocks everybody. He's made Derek Lively look like a rookie. He's had no chance of winning that matchup. He's getting shut down. It's just every small thing they have everything needed

to match up well against the Mavs and make them look terrible. Like I'm seeing people relitigate last series and be like, had the Timberwolves let themselves lose to this team. No, the Celtics are just that good and that bad of a matchup for the Mavs. I also think that for,

I do believe in Lucas Talent, obviously, that he can go out and have one of these crazy games. Over the last, I guess, 12 hours, right? Since the game ended, the one thing that has gotten me nervous is thinking is that game going to happen because is Luca just going to be too tired because they're going at him every single time they are making Luca work on the defensive end and he as

long as every everybody else on on Mavericks is having this issue too but like nobody can contain the ball they can't stay in front of it of anybody lucca's getting blown by every single time and it seems like they are making it a point to bring Luca into every action and to say JT, you can go one-on-one. Jena Brown, you can go one-on-one. And Luca is having to move his feet. And so by the time the fourth quarter rolls around and you've been hit with 11 million screens and you've had to guard, you know, 50 possessions already, are you going to have enough juice

at the end of the game to continue to play at this crazy high level? And we've seen Lucas start really, really hot. That's the only thing that's making me worry about, are we going to get a start-to-finish? amazing Luca game because it's just so much energy that he has to that he has to expend trying to keep everything afloat offensively and then you add the defensive part into and you're like damn like I don't know what I'm glad you mentioned this

Luca has been so ass defensively he's been atrocious Jalen Brown looks like the fastest man alive because Luca Donchard is constantly guarding him rotating and Jalen full head of steam sprints by him every time he looks like a fucking missile it's insane and you know the Mavs know this they know Luke is not going to have good close-outs, not going to offer a lot of resistance

in rotation scenarios. And their whole strategy is he gets blown by, they funnel to the bigs, Luca rotates and so-and-so. But like you said, Luca's been tired as hell from the offensive load. He's not been rotating well.

And you have to rotate perfectly against his team that has five-out spacing, and that's exactly why we've got a million corner threes. Because as soon as Luca gets blown by, you start a chain reaction of rotations that inevitably either Luca or the big man doesn't help at their end and we get open threes in the corner

every single time. And that's the name of the game, dude. A Celtic basketball, yeah, optionality encounters, like you said, and I think no one in the NBA this year has more than that than the Boston Celtics. And speaking of like, one of the only options, one of the only counters that the Mavericks had in terms of offense and how they ran, usually the traditional law prep big is Max Ccleba. And he hasn't looked good at all on either ends of the quarter. on offense he looks absolutely fried the shot looks fourth and i don't know if i think last game he made

a three or on sunday he made a three but game one i don't think he hit anything he's just been like a guy just standing out in the paint that's literally it and the Celtics don't even treat him as that at times so the street's just saying that the cleaver his shoulder is still fried and like that's why his shot isn't necessarily like you know back to where it is uh and so he might just be out there getting run because kid trust him but you see him like he's barely even looking at the basket to try and be aggressive four shot so that might be a factor it's weird like in game three tim hardaway junior got a dm p you know coach's decision in game two at this point every we're playing 15 guys in game three

somebody somebody's going to have to come in and you have three minutes to show me that you can do anything in pack because the bench play for the mavericks has been so bad and you just have to get anybody who can look aggressive look like they can make a shot and i'd if i was jason kid i would be very um hesitant to keep the rotation short because i don't think that anybody has earned the right off the bench to be like in this spot and continue to to play as many minutes as their play yeah uh it's not a great strategy it's just the only thing that you have left at this point i mean save me jaded money save me yeah Yeah, like, I mean, the Jane and Hardy's in the, in the Tim Harder,

a junior random minutes and whatever it might be from what random role pair would save you from Kyrie stinkers. And, like, that's, like, the difference in the game and not having that option while also Kyrie doing it. Like, what he's been doing is not helping you produce anything on the course. You know what I hate. After all year and all life of not particularly liking the Celtics, not been the biggest hate in the world, but not rooting for them by any means. last night I was like I gotta give it to him this is an amazing team

oh that's such a hater side I've known for it I've known all year they're great but watching last night I was like wow this is an all-time roster instruction Brad Stevens you are the fucking man I was like this team was amazing just like the fact that we can have the Jason Tim discourse we're having

and it's just like a distraction from the fact that they're so unfuck-witable all we can do is to be like ha ha your star isn't that good like they are so fucking good. And obviously having two first team all defense guards, ridiculous. Two insanely versatile wings, ridiculous.

A 7-3 behemoth down low, tingus pinguish, ridiculous. Do you all how invest are you all in this Jason Tatum narrative? Like, do you feel any type of way about the discourse going on? Do you care at all about Jason Tatum standing? Or what are your thoughts on this whole talk? I'm actually very invested.

Tell me about all. Tell me. I'm very invested. I've, I've liked Jason Tatum, like, as a player for a while, I've wanted Jason Tatum to take the steps forward. The only time I feel like I was actively rooting against Tatum, was 22 against Steph, because I was going for the Warriors, and then 20, oh, that's it, that's a year against the Bucks, because I thought that Yannis and the Bucks were going to go back to back. I wanted to be right. Outside of that, I have really wanted, like, good things for Jason Tatum.

yo it's so weird it's so frustrating because i nobody else is going to get this pass and the again we've said it all year and we i think we said it on the episode uh after game one all the memes of like you know if such and such went you know went 20 this and that like their team will win but if jason tatem goes 12 for 26 or something like his team will win by 20 it's true and it's frustrating because especially after jason kids comments saying Oh, Jalen Brown is their best player. It's like everyone came to the defense of Jason Tatum And you are not helping anybody's case because you are playing you are shooting

You are shooting like trash there you go You are shooting like trash everything else is fine But for a guy that is first team all NBA That is like a really really good player You want him to like break into that top five maybe even top six or be on that next level It's just not there like some guys. get on really good teams. I wanted what happened to Kevin Durant

where you get on this amazing team and you get unlocked, right? And you go to a next level. The other pieces on Boston have been added, Drew and KP. I need you to take the next level and it's there. It's possible.

It's just not making shots. You know what's crazy? I think he has done that. It's just not the way we wanted him to. We wanted him to be like you're saying, the efficient 35 points per game in the finals like KD was. I don't need 35.

Look at this point. I need 23. And that's the, that's the thing where it's like, bro, come on. He shot like shit. First game, I think he shot like shit, mostly because he was getting trapped and he made the right plays. Yesterday, he had some good looks, especially on layups that he just missed. And the three ball wasn't falling. Didn't shoot well.

I said, those memes where it's like Jason Tatum and then it has all the slander below it. And then it's like Jason Slavakovich and he's photoshopped me white and everyone's, that shit is so fucking true. We don't give a shit about him turning into a legit point forward that can get 12 assists in the finals game and be able. legit high level passer, two years ago, he was mid as fuck as a passer. He's made this leap to being a legit point forward that, like, again, he's shooting like shit. He's elite score. He should be shooting better. He's been able to play the four and five defensively, guarding Derek lively, rebounding like crazy being huge, unlocking their defensive versatility on that end, and essentially being a point guard on the other side, getting 12 assists a game, keeping everything

moving, not forcing shots, swinging it around so they can get those open threes that are making them unbeatable. And we don't give a shit because the shots aren't falling. Whenever things normalize, he's not shooting well at all, like I said, I understand that. He needs to shoot better. When that normalizes, like it inevitably will. No one shoots 22% all the time, right? No great players do that. When that inevitably comes around and say this version of the team isn't around anymore

and he has to be a bigger score again in two years or whatever, the fact that he developed the passing in this way, he's going to be so much better in the long run once he's asked to be a big score again and nowadays as both. Like, he's legitimately so well-rounded now, and no one gives a shit because he's not from Slovenia. It's crazy I don't know

I don't know it's not why I know it's not why but it's so overlooked because we focus on negative part like that is a legit development It's a real development I don't know if it's like That much of a level up as you're making it seem I think it's just genuinely how the Dallas Mavericks are playing him

So he's making the simple read instead of forcing it You know I think he's just genuine playing into the Defensive's hands and he was bad Yeah that's true He took 21 shots last night So like he like he's taking 20 shots shots a game. I'm not going to sit here and act like, you know, like he's, he's only taking nine shots for the betterment of the team. He's still trying to get his. He just

can't get it right now. No, I get. No, he shot poor last night. I'm not saying he didn't, but I'm just saying the passing is legitimately so much better now. And obviously the defense and everything, like, it's, it's going to, one time, when he needs to be a big time scorer again, and now that he's developed his passing, like, he's going to be better for in the long run. I don't know if the passion is so much better like you're making it seem again. I think that's like hyperbole a little bit because, again, like two to the ball. What else do you supposed to do big brain like come on now i know but do it no but it's not just that he has a lot of driving kicks and legit really good passes and they did this two in the ball thing isn't super new

the warriors did this and shut him the fuck down because he was not a particularly good passing in 2022 like yeah he was 22 years old like of course he has that experience he's not he's better exactly i agree i agree so he's gotten better as a player and seeing him play these two games of course it's funny like people seeing him playing into the memes or whatever but at the same like i don't think he's necessarily played like bad or below the standards that i hold him to i never thought he was a top five player i always thought he was like below that because i see what he is good player great great player i know i don't think he's like an all-time player that's the real like difference in disparity and i think everybody else on the internet is just super late to finding that

out because of how he's been pushed and shoved down to people throw as like you know the one a type of guy and he can go ahead okay one first thing before I do this shout out uh dang max 8 you ask for a shout out was good this is a guy in Jason Tatum four time all NBA right

he's that like he is not some the the development from him if this was Franz Wagner that you're talking about it would be like oh wow like good for Franz like he could pass better you are supposed to be one of the 15 best players in the league at all time. You are four-time all-NBA, right? The development is good because now it means that when you are not shooting well,

you still have ways to impact the game. And that is always great, right? And as a great player, it's awesome that you can do that. If Jason Tatum turns into this point forward who can't efficiently score, he is no longer Jason Tatum. I'm not saying that he's going to be like this for the rest of his career. that's not that's not what i'm saying but for you to be in the situation and it's not like he's not getting to the basket right i in in game two in game two i thought that he did a very good job

of putting his head down attacking getting to the basket which has been a critique that i've had of his game over the last year i feel like he's fallen into the three-point shot a little bit too much when that has regressed and last night he's going to the basket every time he's just not finishing And at a certain point, when you are that guy, you still have to score efficiently. And there's other people in the league who face tough coverages, and they also find a way to have better games than what Jason Tatum is doing right now. And for him and for the quote unquote narrative around him, I would like to see a little bit, I would like to see a little bit more from the scoring aspect from him. Nobody's saying that he should continue to shoot 31% from the field like he has these two games. he never has last series was 46% 30 points per game like we're acting like he does this every game

because we were ganging up on the lows and then he gives us two fat ass lows in the start of the finals so we're like look at that he's not at every game no he hasn't it's two really bad games maybe we'll get two more i don't know he did play like shit it's been a bad playoffs it's been a bad run again 46% from the field 30 points per game last like this is some of the worst that he shot over the last year it's been up and down in the first round he shot 41% from the field obviously that's really low next round 44 and 46% it's seemed worse than it really was because there's bad games. They were just sandwich between

great games that nobody gives a shit about because that's what he's expected to do so nobody talks about it and we forget about that. And obviously again, he started the finals with two really bad ones so we're going to remember that since we already wanted to find those games. It's just it's a little bit exaggerated. Well, it is there he's up and down, not just down.

I don't know. I also feel like it's something that I kind of realized last night and it kind of came out because of his rebounding. And you, like you said, Tatum's getting, he's rebounding extremely well and he's super physical, getting boards. I kind of feel like what happened to Anthony Davis as Loki happened to him where he's put on so much size. And if you look at the difference between his shot two years ago to now, it looks different. Not like the actual shooting form of it looks different.

And there feels like it's a little bit more hitch on it. And it's more, it's more inconsistent than what it was two, two years. years ago. And I think that that may be a proponent of him putting on more size to be able to consistently play the forward to get to get more rebounds, to be a better defender, all this stuff. And I obviously like, I don't know, like that's just purely my speculation. But I feel like we've seen that with other players and you're like, oh, like, why, why is, you know, why is the shot gone, you know, terribly? That may, that may be a reason. And I wonder if, I wonder if he feels that way about his own shot that he had to, you know, do this stuff to his body. And now it's

not necessarily the same as it was whenever he was younger. And that's been the biggest reason for the lack of efficiency of this playoff run. Every playoff series, he's been 30% from three or below. So he's scoring okay at the rim to make up for that, right? There's the reason he's 46% in last series. He just can't buy a three and it's been terrible. And maybe you're right because the last one, two, three, four, five, six, I mean, sure my screen, I don't know why I'm not, seven playoff series in a row. He's averaged at least 10 rebounds per game. So this 2023 he was over 30% from three and just two of those so now it's five playoff series in a row he's at over 10 rebounds and less than 30% and 3 it's almost like an exact correlation between

when those two things swapped yeah it's it's really weird and for somebody also who has a kind of like a a tough shot diet right we know you like to take step back three so we know you like to take turnaround faders you are already kind of behind the eight ball because of the shot that you want to take i kind of want to see him in like this like in between in between raids try to try to get to the midi get the floated there's something that like jalen brown has that he doesn't necessarily have lucca has it and you see a lot of um it doesn't feel like he's a three level score right now i know that he can score all three levels but in terms of what he likes to to get to in his game that's not that's not there and putting all putting all the pieces together going into next season

that's going to be a real, real defining factor in terms of how people are going to consistently talk about Tatum because it's going to be, it's going to be a nasty summer. And we are letting you guys do this right now. It's going to be, the conversation around Jason Tatum is going to be disgusting. Is Tatum going to be the first player ever to win a championship

and get his ass straight to a lot? Like, get rate for lower, bro? Like, is this what we're doing right now? This is the best part. Dude, the Tatum, sorry to cut you up, the Tatum discourse has, everybody's getting what they want. The people who want to slander him

for being carried and being a bum are getting a low efficiency. The people don't want to say he's developing all around. He doesn't need to score a lot. It's okay, we shoot poorly, are getting the stat sheet stuff

and all the other ways. Like, it's the perfect storm for nonstop discourse. If he was playing, if he was playing like this last year, before they got K.P., before they got Drew Holiday,

nobody in Jason Tatum's camp would be like, oh, he's playing so well. There is a certain level of winning bias that's going on with him where it's like, hey, he's just doing what he needs to do to help the team win. And again, that's great if you are the fourth bet, right? Like if Drew Holiday plays like this, oh, look at Drew, look at Drew, such a great teammate, blue guy, does all the dirty work. When your face is the one on the posters, when you're the reason why people are buying tickets and doing all that type of stuff, and you are 1-1-A,

the shooting has to be better. And if it is, if the shooting comes around in the next two games, it's a sweep. That's also why it's so scary for Dallas that you haven't been able to win either one of these first two games. Because Tatum has shot terribly and you can't capitalize. I found this interesting question on Twitter. And it said, who is the worst player that you could put in Jason Tatum's position

and still, like, you know, have the Celtics be in the same exact position being up 2-0 against the Dallas Mavericks. Who's the worst player that you can suck there? This tweet said my pick of Scottie Barnes. That's a good pick because he could do the same things. Passing-wise, that's hilarious. Scotty Barnes on his team.

He's low-key playing like a super-charved Scottie Barnes with the fact that his three-point shot isn't falling, and he's a slasher that's passing really well, rebounding, defending really well. This might be like the Kauai Leonard of Scottie Barnes. I got another name. for you off the top of my head that's such a nasty thing that we're doing now but i got another name for you on the top of my head chat i need you guys to put in your answers too someone said

prime daddy is young oh my god that's gross josh hart from this year's playoffs no i don't know how much worse the boss and celtics would be i generally don't know how much worse they would be it's got to be a good passer because jason thames essentially been their point guard so it's got to be a midpoint forward is the answer like somebody said mikhail britt is not a bad passer he's not a bad passer he's I mean, he's not, come on. DeMarre Rosen, someone said that. Like, maybe, maybe, maybe tomorrow's. Okay, no, no, no, he can't play defense.

Like, he, he, he, the, demar is a weak defender. That can't be this bag at all. Yeah. And also, he's, he offers zero spacing. Seacom? Seacum, that's a very true, that's a very true one. So is Evan Turner. Evan Turner.

Oh, my God. Chris Middleton. Andre Goodala. Kyle Kuzma. Kyle Kuzma This is the This is the Jason Tatum experience right here

And I think I'm finally happy That everyone is like You know Loring their ceiling for him As a player Because like Why would you want him to be like The 1A guy

Taking all these shots For in 40, 45 When he can perfectly thrive Super fine In this role where he's super He's a supercharged A big body dude Who's been like

putting his head down and driving to the rim and like you said isa he got like 12 assists last time and again i think he got like five or six or whatever was the first game like this man is not to get 350 million dollars he average 30 last playoff series why we act like he's just that he's young like he still i'm not saying i'm not i'm not yeah okay yeah oh yeah yeah mo that was such a that was crazy what no no what is the issue what is the issue he's doing like i'm glad he's not powered wing that isn't the lead score That was such fucking Betty hates. He's not bad.

That was so petty. Yes, like, yes, he's doing good things on the basketball court. He's not, he's not having F-level games. If I were to grade him right now throughout this series, I'd probably give him, like, a C-plus B-minus, right? Like, any one of those two, if you want to say C-plus, that's fine. That's probably the lowest that I would go. I just the fact that you are going a series away and it was 30 points a night you were you were being very efficient in from the field granted you were playing the Pacers no defense but it is what it is you still have to you still have to put up points and he did it the fact that um listen to quote paul pierce we're just getting a taste you know

And sometimes you want the whole load. You know, you know what I'm saying? Sometimes you want Jason Tatum to put it all together and to give you the 25 points efficiently, the 11 rebounds. You want him to make the right passes. I understand that asking him to do that would be asking him to be legitimately one of the best players in the world.

But for somebody of Jason Tatum's build and somebody that has his career, um, uh, past and track record, there are shades of it where if you are progressing in every stage one by one, please get to a point where you can put it all together and all of those things come together at once. And that's the, that is the most frustrating part about the Jason Tatum experience right now is that I know you can do this over here. I know you can do this over there. And it's not all together. And that's what's upsetting. Yeah. I just, we just have, like,

We all agree as NBA fans that are not ignorant that scoring isn't everything. We understand that there's more nuance to it, but then we just forget about that with Jason Tatum. We focus disproportionately on that. We just fall into our worst discourse impulses with Jason Tatum. And I agree with what you just said. If he did all these things at once,

we'd be looking at one of the best players in the world. He's just not that. That's the other part. We assume because he's best player, best team, when in the championship, he should be in the top tier. not the best players aren't a different tier and he's in the second tier and that's fine we just have such weird i guess it's not weird because like i said they're going to be champion he's first team all

mb a new yeah but like the fifth person there every time we know he's worked the top four players is the first tier and we know those are the MVP caliber guys and we know he's not in that he's still first team all NBA but you know he's not he's not as good as the other four guys there you know he's not yokech you know he's not luga you know he's not in b you know he's not yannis we know he's not that tier of player obviously we get annoyed because Celtics fans act like he is fuck them but they're Celtics fans of course they do that like we just it's just a weird set of circumstances that have come around to make the narrative run him so specifically biased towards slander if you if he was doing right so like right now

if you're shooting well this series what he's averaging what like 20 like 27 10 and 10 something something crazy like that he's he's probably averaging a triple double because he yeah what would you say he would be averaging 27 10 in 10 yeah i don't need that from you i have five other people on this team who are great and the thing is if everybody wants to go out and say oh jason kids crazy for saying that jaylon brown is the better player right we all think that we have this hierarchy i need you to be the best player i need you to 100 if all those numbers came down if you were doing what she was doing and it was like 35 and five You were getting less assists, less rebounds, right?

Basically the same amount of points. That would be perfect, but you're not doing it. You are not stepping up. And so you deserve three months of us saying you are not this when I had you and your entire fan base telling me for 10 months, oh, this guy should at least be on the MVP ballot. This guy is 1A. Oh, he's this, he's that.

No, you are not showing it. You had your opportunity in 2022. You failed. Nobody blamed you for it because you were young. The time is here. The time is now. not stepping up why is it it's i don't care you are doing everything you are good job i'm sorry god score the damn ball score you're six nine score bro it's so unfortunate donovan a smith is

making an appearance this is amazing it sounds like you donovan has been have been manipulated how have i been manipulated when he's averaged 27 for his career and he's not average in 27 and he's an inconsistent 27 or whatever. How am I being manipulated when I'm just asking you to do the things that you say that you do that I've seen you do before? But now you're not doing them and I'm crazy for asking you to do those things. That's only him. Like he's not shooting great.

It's not that crazy. He's not in the normal rhythm he would be in a normal 27 point per game regular season. He's not playing regular regular season coverages. Like he needs to shoot better. He needs to make these easy layups. He needs to make some fucking threes. Why are we over analyzing this? He's getting trapped, and he's passing the ball because they're throwing two people at him,

and he has elite shooters in both corners. You say he's getting trapped. He took 22 shots. He's thinking at least 20 shots in five. I agree. He needs to make him. He's getting his rocks off. He's getting his opportunities.

If he was, if Jason Tadden was out here, scoring like 14 points a game on like eight shots, and he'll be like, oh, listen, he's just making the right play. He's still trying to do it. He just can't do it. No, he's not like that. I know. The terrible two games, I know. But why are we acting like he's LeBron standards?

Like, I just don't find it... I think I just have less, I have less expectations for him than y'all do. I think that's what it comes down to. A two-year thing, though. He's a two-year thing. Well, I know you have less suspicions than me. You don't count. You're a day one reader.

Two-year thing. Put that hand down. I think he was Donovan. Just because you see him, like, I hear you. I understand. I understand you. He gave the Milwaukee books like, what? Forty-six or something like that?

It was a bus or the net. Down three, two, on the road. He gives you 46. He's who are saying in the game seven. People are saying it is LeBron standards because you talk to Celtics fans and they put them on that pedestal. Fuck them. They're Celtics fans.

Of course they overhyped their player. Who gives a shit? They're dumb. They're going to show love to their guy. They're not right. I understand how Tatum has given folks the impression. And he's had a lot of those like, wow, this dude could be top five. top three whatever moments

throughout his NBA career but I feel like what he's devolved into when he's turned into now I don't know if that ceiling is necessarily with him anymore and now that he's able to of course I be a great rebounder

that he is go ahead and give you 12 versus do the nitty and gritty dirty work guy like that's what we need nowadays that's what people yeah I'm paying you $350 million to be a great rebounder get out of here Oh, but get shut up. I need you, I need you to consistently score.

This is two years, mind you. This is two years. And I'm saying this because, again, also because the three-point shot has become such a big part of his game. And when that becomes your second shot outside of driving to the basket and we get to the playoffs and over the last two years, you're shooting 31% from three, brother, I need you to change something up. I need you to go back into the lab and fix something, add something. and do whatever you have to do. Now, something I will say is that I think the lack of versatility in his game now is strictly just a product of his environment.

Their entire game is not to go ahead and shoot hell of mid-range shots. The only person who will do that on a consistent basis once in a while is Chris S. Prozingis. Outside of that, you don't see a lot of itself as player do that. And I think a part of like why we see this regression is you're on to some of the jumpshot genuine with Tatum hasn't been there and it kind of fell off as he put on more muscle and all that. But the scoring doesn't look as potent as it once did because of the Missoula effect.

I want to thank Jason Tatum. I'm a fit. I'm going to thank him from the bottom of my heart for being the perfect discourse creator. This is amazing. All summer we're doing this. All summer it's referendum on Jason Tatum every time he touches the screen. I can't wait. This is the thing, though.

And this is what I'm going to try to calm back down with, is that if I'm especially if I'm talking to you guys and as we go forward if we talk about jason tatum and we talk about this first team all-nbba guy we talk about you know one of the the better players in in the league obviously we know that he's in like he's at the top of the second tier i i don't think that he i obviously don't think he's on yokic yannis luca level maybe even shea whatever do not get upset at me when i look at you and I say, yeah, Tatum might be like 10 in the league. Like there might be like lying guys. Like as we as if that number, if that number drops below that, right?

Don't don't get upset because spam it up right now. Sam where you guys are going to rank. Spam where you guys are going to rank Tatum. It's not crazy to say he's closer to someone like Donald Mitch and then he is to Luca Donchitz. It's not insane at all. I said, I think Donald Mitchell is underrated, but I know your point. We had a, we had a stream a couple weeks ago in the day.

debate of the day was like by the end of next season jason tatum's going to be looked at closer to 15 than five and or even even seven i think i can't remember the exact numbers that i used but i i guess this goes for more of the celtics fans and just also general discourse but like we can't talk about this guy like he's top top seven and if that's if that's the case then it's like okay here's my question then a year ago a year and a half a call whatever you want when you, I'm just going to use you, I don't remember exactly you ranked him, when you said saw his ups, you saw his downs, you knew the package

beforehand. Why overreact so much to the downs that you just like completely rethink the way you thought about him? So there was a couple of things. So I, so when we did that ranking that was in December and I think I put him at six and I was saying basically the same thing that Celtics fans were saying

where I was like, listen, we are kind of underappreciating Jason Tatum. He's going to come out. He's not going to be this like crazy, flashy guy, but he is going to go out, play good defense score 27 all of that that was coming off of another playoff run where he shot poorly but i'm like i'm gonna just throw it out it's one it's one playoff run everybody everybody has bad runs now we get through the rest of the season and you've had more performances like that now we get through the end of this postseason and through the first two games of the finals once again

you have more more moments like that i do want to give him credit because he turned up at the end of the cavs series and he did have a good conference finals but once again the consistency is not there and so to be in my opinion to be at five to be at six you need to be consistent as the guy and this is a level of consistency where the other guys in the league are not having these types of issues where and say you know take this how you want but like just watching you it is you are not performing at the level that you normally do and so seeing that now through a full two years and I understand what you like to do

and you're not necessarily good at the second thing that you like to do. Listen, exactly. That's actually a big problem. And so going into the summer, regardless of how this series plays out, unless he just decides to turn up and score 50 every night, then I'll be like, okay, like maybe it is in there

and maybe I can get tricked into the cycle. But right now, I think that I'm out on Jason Tatum as a top five, six player right now until I see, I mean, listen, for me, that's something that I was, I had earlier in the season. I think I may be done with that idea. And now we're going to, I'm personally going to have to start rethinking about where do I see Jason Tatum because also other, other players in the league,

we give them kudos for what they do in the playoffs. We'd knock them down because of what they do in the playoffs. This is kind of one of those knocks where I'm like, I don't know if I can. Okay. So is Jewel and B going to be? top five? Maybe, maybe not. I didn't have Joel NBte top five.

You didn't have him in top five. I didn't, I didn't have him top five, so. So, and you know exactly how I feel about NB, huh? Is Kyrie going to fall out of your top 30 or whatever? Is he also going to be falling lower? Maybe, yeah. This is, you can't, you can't be doing this. You can't be leaving your guy out to, out to dry a week, two weeks after everybody

was calling you guys, you know, the best offensive back court. in NBA history, just, you know, talent, talent-wise, I'm not saying y'all, but people were saying that. And so it's like, you can't, but you just can't be doing this. So, yeah, it's going to be a lot of. Let's play hypotheticals. You do this, right? You rank them at nine, whatever it may be.

Next year comes around. Tatum? Yeah, next year comes around, they make a conference finals run. They don't make the finals again. He averages 27, seven and seven. Are you moving back up to six? Because you saw, yeah, sure. Officials the same way he did in 2022.

or are you moving back up because you saw a Jason Tatum series you've seen in the past? Maybe not back up to five or six, but he might be able to get to eight, right? He might be able to get up a spot. But in terms of like top, and also it depends on if anybody else jumps into, like if Shay 100% solidifies himself as,

as a top five guy or top four or whatever, or let's say that Anthony Edwards is actually consistent from night one through the end of the playoffs and he doesn't have the stinkers that he has he might be able to get up there there's a whole bunch of people who have the opportunity I think so if you just if you're saying that you think you don't no longer believe Jason Tatum has a ceiling

you once believe he did because of what you've seen over years I guess I respect that I think listen he might have two great games and all of a sudden we're like oh never mind we overreacted like I think there's a bit too much overreaction up and down but that is consistent to things you said in the past but other guys so I believe you I believe you because of what you value

but I believe you. No no I didn't think you're a lying but you know we all have there's going to be reasons to bias in all of our heads. I believe you that this makes sense because it lines up with things you're saying. I think with a lot of other people it's going to be up and down depending on what's happened most recently which just leads to like I said great discourse

for us. These are talking about also fun thing to look at is uh i love to score 50 in game three i know exactly you're going to be sick to your stomach i'm like i love doing rankings so much because it's so easy to go back and look at where we had these players so back in our christmas episode we went ahead and re-ranked to be 30 your best players in the NBA or so and i and i and iac had jason's he had him the lowest and you had them that you had him the highest not i mean i think i had five right yeah yeah yeah and then and i had him at number eight and i think the reason why he hasn't you know ascended in the way that

you wouldn't want donovan you're getting into it earlier in your mid argument and i think it's like he has he doesn't have that one definitive skill that just makes him unstoppable and separates him from the rest like with luca and yokit's just passing with death it's a shooting of course and with doyle and bd he's just big at shit and he has every move and the bag and also like the defense just defense the center is just invaluable and with tatum he's not one of the best shooters in the NBA obviously not one of the best passers he's a really good defender i would say he's like one of the better defenders so i guess you could give that to him but he's not like winning defense as a player of the year anytime this career as well so

it's like where is he going to go ahead and five like someone like she has been nearing with his mid-range scoring and also the defense that he's been providing like i don't know where that's going to come from unless like has either the game plan evolves for the boson celtics post like mazula era or whatever or like if he's just put in a different situation or whatever the case may be yeah i don't think you necessarily have to have one elite skill like that like that's an easy way to predict who's going to be that but i don't think it's a guarantee thing like you can be a jack-of-all-trades and providing a value but i agree who's been the last jack-of-all-trades that just been able to do that like kawai maybe but even then like

but he's like he's one of the best one defensive player of the year and also the mid-range game was like lights out so it's like I don't I don't necessarily agree with that yeah to work in the top five listen I don't think he's in that tier so I'm not gonna pretend that you know like I just don't think he's that so I agree with the end of the day that he's just not that so that's fine and that concludes our final talk lex up we got debate of the day before we get the debate of the day I'm gonna read out the donations we miss we got a lot of them to catch up on I'm gonna give you all your attention because We appreciate y'all. Shats to I have avocado for $5. He said, Tatum is top 10 for sure, but not All-MBA first team. Another point to that, so much of All-MBA is high to team record. So, like, he's going to make All-MBA because it seems great, and he's great on it. So I would view it more like, should he be on the MVP ballot when you're talking about using

a reward to signify how good they are, I think. Exactly. Should it be Jaylon Brown on first-team all-M-BA? Who knows? All right. All right, all right. Shout to Taney G for $5. He said, what type of ranking should we expect this off-season?

All-time, duos, PG-3 Center. We're going to do the PG-3 Center every year. That's going to be like a ranking season, T3 Summer, is when we rank all five positions and then a fifth ranking that's going to be whatever we think of for that year. That's going to be a staple, and it's my favorite time of the year

because discourse is going to be crazy. I love it. Just straight yapping about nothing. I love it. Off-season is when we really thrive because everybody else stops trying on their content, and we have list schools for days and all the random creative bullshit for days.

That's the off-season is our time. I can't wait to argue about Luke Cornynett, and why he's so valuable and Tiji McConnell McConnor. Shout to Jim Conno make an appearance for sure.

Oh, definitely. Listen, I'll say this. We do ranking season. I'll say this to people who are streamwatchers. You get a little early access. Last year, we did top 30 every position.

This year we were doing top 50. It's going to be even nastier than before. It's got to be filthy. Now, are we going to do a lot of time debating the first? 40s and 50s, no. But it's going to be on the list. You say that now, but we know what we're going to do. We know each other very well.

I'm going to argue to death about number 34. We argue about Gabe Vincent versus T.J. McConnell, it's going up. We're going crazy. Bro, we spent 20 minutes last summer arguing Harrison Barnes versus Kyle Anderson. Like, it's going to be disgusting. Oh, my God. We're getting stuck up with this. Shout out to D1 Tademater for donating a dollar Shout out to Ben Teng goat for tipping $10 He said finally able to catch a live stream

Keep up to good streams and content The Friday podcast make the two hour drive home less miserable Appreciate you Ben 10 Shout out to Red for tipping $3 Shout to Joaquin 37 for tipping $1 another EDP joke Shout out to Brianna Kemp for tipping $2 and $18 A real specific number I appreciate it Boy Jason Tim is trashed I don't have my top 15

And that's all the donos. Oh, shout to this. Thank you for $15 just now. He said I had no style as a kid, but that pick a mo got me feeling a little bit better of myself. Oh, man. That's crazy. Everybody goes through it. What is our debate of the day before we get out of here?

Or is your debate energy over with that for Jason Tatum? No, it's not. Listen, high-level debate energy? Maybe. We are so consumed by basketball right now. A lot of these are going to be away from basketball. So once again, and I can't remember. I don't think that we've done this before.

But I need rankings. French toast, waffles, pancakes. Ooh, chat, spam it up. I want to hear y'all's opinion on this. I need the rankings. Waffle pancakes. What are we ranking on? So is this a balance of seeming consistency?

Is it a one time I got to eat one? What is your criteria? You are going to, you're going to a breakfast place. place. Okay. They have pancakes and just standard. Nothing like crazy, you know, like, you know, gourmet, whatever. It is a standard pancake, a standard waffle, and standard French toast, right? We're going to assume that each of them is not at the best of the best. It's like a seven out of ten pancake waffle French toast.

Ranked them. I think French toast is one by far. French toast is one. French toast is one. No. Too many people can fuck up to French toast, man. I disagree. I think if you have a less than perfect French toast,

like a closer to average French toast, it's definitely last. French toast is incredible. Listen, if we're going to gauge everything on its worst day, this isn't a conversation worth happening. No, this is like seven. It's like above average, not crazy. An above average French toast, a seven through ten, whatever it is, starting at seven and low end, easy at the highest ceiling.

If you do a good job of French toast, easily the highest ceiling. I'm going waffles, then French toast, then pancakes. I think a solid waffle is so good. And especially you got the little craters. We could put all the syrup in, cut it up. We're just like having fun when you eat. What the fuck? I don't even count.

You know what it is? Waffles also have the highest floor. Like if you want like the cheapest worst version, Eggos are pretty good. The worst version of pancakes aren't very good. Like a shitty, chewy pancake. It's falling apart all dry. like those can be really trash

Eggos are good just for what they are a quick breakfast and obviously great pancake great waffles elite like French dough if you put waffles one I don't have a problem with it

there's more versatility there more consistency there you can do it on a daily basis where some days French toast is too sweet for you I get it but I gotta go French toast one because of ceiling

waffles too because of consistency pancakes are good but they have the lowest floor by far I think now Moe total has the lowest floor I also I do agree with that

I do think that French toast has the lowest floor more. Mo told us, you know, listen, we're surprised, right? We're going to have some in-person content coming up soon. And Mo told us that the next time the world together, he's taking us to get the best pancakes that we've ever had. I personally think that, like, I think that when they are all at their best, 10 out of 10, I think we might have to go pancake French toast waffle. They're in the chat talking about crapes, crepes clear, craps overrated. y'all don't yeah it's no no not not y'all i think it's just one person i think it's just

you know about craps like that about kreps you y'all know about that cheetahs don't even belong in this conversation i've never had a joke i don't know i don't think craps belong in this conversation because it's too complicated just like french to go ahead and like do so how do you make french toast also isaac i never made french toast in my life you get toast a bread right ideally it's stale bread so like older bread that you have that's been waiting out or if it's not stale bread shut up hold on hold on

exactly so there's still already it's not calm down and listen you don't know anything about the process I'll explain to you either it's stale and old bread or if it's not you put in the oven first to crisp it up a little bit because it has to be a little bit hard because then you're going to make it a mixture of milk cream whatever you want to put in it but it has to be eggs in there then cinnamon nutmeg whatever you want

that wet mixture you put the bread in it and you soak it on both sides, and you want the stale bread because it'll keep a little bit of crunch, even though you're making it wet, and then you fry it. See, I think that's too many steps for the average place, and I think that's so easy to mess up compared. I mean, have you ever made, like, homemade? Doing that is honestly a little bit easier than making, like, homemade waffle or pancake mix, like, to have wet and dry stuff like. Well, often are people making, like, homemade pancake. That's what I'm saying. So, like, if you're just getting, like, if you're getting, like, pancake out of it.

out of a mix like if you're getting the the pearl milling company you know what was called if you get getting that and and put it and put it water into it like it's fine it's not amazing someone said my my Latino card is revoked for liking french toast what why why well Latinos just love waffles now want to pick a breakfast burrito I never knew that all the thing and also the stale bread is like stale food if you're like refriing it that's kind of what you need it's the same concept with fried rice like you want like dailed rice i see y'all spam about the jazz jerseys we'll look at them at them at the after this conversation all jesus christ i'm looking at you half time minutes i've seen all

65 messages about the jazz jerseys we'll look at them you win you beat me into submission let's get straight to it pull up the jazz uh yeah pull up the jazz jersey let me find it i didn't see this as a half mexican french toast is fire as a half mexican let me find it jazz jerseys. Oh, yeah. Also, if you get a chance, can you make a poll between Waffle, French toast, and a pancake? Yep.

Start a poll. Who wins? Waffle, Frenchie, and pancakes. Start pull. Pancakes. And now, well, we let that poll run,

we see what you guys think. Let's go off. Look at these jerseys. Shout out Utah. They're back. Oh, accent, click that. Let me show you all the screen. I hate how many steps.

I've got to do for this. Wow. What do you all think about these jerseys? W. I move for the Utah Jazz. These are, I don't see a single bad jersey here at all. I see all tens and nines.

It's a bit complicated. They have to wear the yellow ones for one more year. So this left one is their city jersey for next year. And the right one is what's going to be replacing the yellow jersey in two years. Weird Nike negotiation bullshit

that makes it so they have to wear certain things. But next year they'll be wearing these three on the left and then the year after that they'll do the three on the right. I don't feel about the black one. The white one's obviously sick. How do you feel about the black one?

Normally, I would hate that. I don't think it looks that bad. I'm kind of, I don't think that I would, like, wear it on the daily, but, like, just for like an on-court type of thing. I don't think it's terrible. I think having the big-ass, like, jazz logo and mountains in the back is a bad move.

Kind of go, like, got to go with, like, one or the other, really? They should have just kept, like, had the actual font, like, Utah, all written instead of having the literal jazz sign logo there. But it's not bad at all. I think the ceiling is definitely lowered. That white one is crazy hard though. The white one's amazing, bro. That left one is the city jersey.

I like how it has the actual mountain instead of the lines like the other ones do. They're not keeping it sadly, but I think the one in the left is crazy and the white one is so clean. Great rebrand, though. Obviously, we knew the yellow was bullshit and they knew immediately and they made it clear. they're not keeping it that has had to for Nike reasons thank God

thank God we're going to be past that era ranked the four white jerseys yeah we're going

the white jersey on top the one that Lowry's wearing then then the other purple and then the black one yeah yeah I agree

okay maybe actually yeah maybe I go Larry Keante George Kessler Hendrix hmm

I think the good purple might be a higher ceiling in the white. You like, yeah, yeah, I know. I'm, as our resident purple lover, which one is, which one is, which one is, which one are you buying? Oh, man, which I'm, I'm, I'm, you don't see a lot of great white purple orders like that. So what Keonté has on, I might either buy that one or lorries, probably lean towards Keontes, though. You're not buying neither. You're not buying a goddamn, you're not for sure. What the hell do I love buying that?

If I was to, though. then I would probably buy what Keonta has on. But I would never buy this jersey ever. If I got it as a gift, I would definitely accept it for sure. Listen, I'll wear this in 2K. I'll put it on my player when I go to the city. Whenever I play threes on the court, put it on my slashing point guard.

I'll wear this there. Yeah, it's worse than some VC. Eight out of ten rebrand, I would say. Yeah, I'll pair it with some Columbia 11s. I'll have a good fit on my player. Columbia 11, so you don't play about your player's drip. No, I do not. In eighth grade, you would have been going crazy.

In eighth grade, I would have got shot over that. Those 11s were impossible to get in eighth grade. It was a war zone out there. No. I don't know. The waffles won 46% of the votes. Listen, y'all love some waffles. I understand.

There we go. I know ball. I appreciate that. What was last? Hank toast. Oh, no. French toast. French toast at 24%.

Yeah, we're also voting just pick one. I didn't have them rank them, so I can't do that in a poll. But French shows at the least amount of first place votes. I think... It's interesting. The voting system is a pretty good secondary ranking. And to me, it sounds like French toast is the worst.

Well, what if everybody would have voted French toast number two? We would never know. I think that's that pancake. Shut up. So, yeah. Well, that's the end of the breakfast talk. That's the end of the jazz talk. And that's the end of the stream.

We appreciate all you all for coming out. Let me see if I'm missing donations. Shout out to Chief Hella for donating $1. And that's it. We appreciate all, y'all. We'll see you all on Friday. shout to y'all see you