The Deep 3 Podcast - The Cavs STOLE Donovan Mitchell From The Knicks! | The Deep 3 Ep. 1

Episode Date: September 9, 2022

The Cleveland Cavaliers shocked the NBA world by stealing Donovan Mitchell right from under the New York Knicks' noses. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're taking Trey Young over Kevin Durant offensively? Yeah, most definitely. This man is drunk. That's not crazy to say. Okay. Yo, what's up at all, man? Welcome to the first ever episode, officially of the TD3, and I'm Mohammed, and I got my homies over here, Isaac and Dona.

What's up, it's crazy? We're finally uploading a long forum after all these weeks, was it two months now? I'm just doing shorts. It's wild to finally be knowing that we're actually going to post the whole thing. Thanks, bro. All of our thoughts are, like, we're finally going to be able to, like, give context to all of basically our taste that we've been spewing out. I'm so excited, bro.

You get to get flamed live. I've been thinking of things 3 10 second sound bites. Facts. But now they're actually not context and I think Donovan's a fucking idiot because I cut them out in 10 second sound bites. They might still think I'm stupid, but it's okay. At least they'll have like some type of understanding. If they can see the vision

then that's all good. I guess we should give people a brief overview of what this podcast is. And so as you guys know if you're subscribed already, we've been posting shorts for a few weeks. Kind of just, you know, mimicking a podcast style through shorts so now we're giving me the full thing it's just us three i think we're not like super nerds oh i'm a little more of a nerd they're more yeah i would i would say we we try to like tilt the line between like super analytical nerds and like that word nice type of watch yeah exactly i feel like that's the sweet spot that we're trying to hit yeah we're

trying to give you relatively smart commentary without being lame as fuck because everybody who does smart commentary online is 35 years old and white and just not related to the Check out of Z culture at all. So we kind of snagger that line a little bit. First thing, obviously, we've got to talk about is Don from Mitchell on the Cavs. It's wild. It's wild, bro. Listen, as the resident New York Knicks fan on this podcast, right?

Oh, yeah. I know you were excited. Disgusting. Come on now. Like, it happens every time, every single time. Like, it doesn't matter. Like, limber a hope for nothing. It doesn't matter if it's free agency, if it's the draft, if it's in, like, the trade market.

The Knicks are always supposed to get the guy. and then after a while they just don't get them and it falls through every single time and it's so annoying it's so frustrating and it's just like tradition at this point yeah and like if there was an accolade for being interested in a player the nix would be 16 time champion bro the nix that's in the NBA undefeated it's ridiculous this is record setting damn near at this point bro the the nix get friend zoned by every single star in the NBA everybody after every press conference is always like oh i love to play madison's quarter i want to play they're so bad and then they just don't come there's like i just like you guys like as the idea but this is the nixirts a little bit

more though because like y'all did not get friend zoned by donovan mitchell i would say i think he pretty i i would assume that he'd want to go he's fucking from there and shit he'd be up there all the time during the summer with chris brickley or berkeley or whatever the nbhanger's name is so i feel like it was the utah jazz more so curving the hell out of y'all i'm sure donovan much rather live in New York than Cleveland, so it definitely wasn't his part. It wasn't like a free agency signing where they completely pick another team and decide that they're just using you to make the other team jealous. He wanted to be there, which is kind of what makes it tough. Yeah, exactly. But listen, he's out, he's out there in Cleveland though. And as for the squad, Cleveland has a squad now.

Like, I, listen, we're going to get to that. They're insanely nasty on paper. I think, I think what they have, like, if, listen, if you're talking about just 2K rosters, the, the, the cabs are going to be one of those teams where you're going to play with every single night in 2K like they they have a lot of the they have a lot of the ingredients that you need to be a successful team even in like even in the east that's probably as loaded as we've ever seen them like I don't know if we've ever seen the east this stat from top to bottom don't mean to cut you off let's save the cabs talk we're going to get to that because later in this episode we're going to do a division preview for one eastern conference division

on one western conference division to eventually you know cover every team and we're going to do the caps today but first I want to hear from you going to be back to the next thing if they weren't are you even like that sad that they didn't get them that are you even that sad to be honest no because what would they have been if they did get them to be honest no right so like if we gave up rj and it's brunson if it's brunson mitchell and randall and that's the that's the big three the mid three yeah exactly literally it's the mid three so like i think if that's the case then we probably are in the same spot that we are right now which is like i guess fighting for playing i can't say you're in the same

spot when you got Donovan Mitchell. Yeah, exactly. But my thing is... In that aspect, yes. Like, if you're doing this, the Knicks not trying to win. Let's be for real. Not every single NBA team can win or have a serious chance when at this point they're just doing it for the vibes, bro.

That's literally it. But we also can't act like they don't have a much better chance if they had Donovan Mitchell. Like, right now with the team they have, they're firmly mid. Like, they're going to be maybe the 9th, 10th seed, eighth if they're really lucky and strike gold again with another good tip season. But Donovan gives them an actual legit chance to have that ceiling to push to a mid-tier playoff team. And that doesn't mean you're going to win a championship, so it's not the most valuable, but that does mean something.

At this point, I think all Knicks fans would appreciate, just like Chicago's Bull fans, just a couple years ago, is a good, decent team that they could pull up to watch and not feel shameful every single night by the time they leave that arena. That's all. Of course. Of course. I think if you go out and you get Donovan, year one, your one isn't what you're playing for, right? I think you understand that your ceiling is going to be limited if you have Brunson, Mitchell, and Randall. I think what you're playing for is two years down the line when his extension is like, when he's in the middle of his extension, you can trade Julius Randall or he comes off the books. Brunson's contract starts to look a little bit better. And now you have a 28-year-old Donovan Mitchell and you can surround him with other free agents that finally can look in New York and say, there's a guy that I want to go play with. Like as good as Julius Randall was a couple years ago, nobody's looking at Julius.

It's Randall saying, like, oh, I want to pay. Nobody wants to do that. Not after last year. Exactly. Nobody wants to do that. So, but if you had Adoneman Mitchell, then your future is much brighter. We've already seen those comments about, from Zion, right? And I know that he locked in his extension, but at the same time, like, he's in New Orleans.

And Nick's fans are always dreaming about Zion still. It's crazy. It's going to happen. I'm telling you, it's going to happen. This man had too many wet dreams about it not happening, bro. He's committed. I'm telling me, I don't care if he's 35. He's coming to New York eventually.

35, funny. Oh my gosh. But if you can have, but like. What does 35-year-old Zion look like? Jesus. His knees will be burnt to Chris by then. Oh, my God. He's going to look like current day Shaq.

It's going to be awful. But yeah, like if you're trying to just build a future, getting a 26-year-old all-star isn't the worst way to go. Yeah. A lot of people talk about the fact that they would have had to give up all their future picks, so they would have been stuck with his core, like we said, the mid-3. But it's different for the Knicks because if they had Donovan Mitchell and, like you said, could recruit another star there.

they'd be able to go with the formula that like the clippers the lakers the fucking nets have used where they try to build it through free agency and their their picks don't matter as much as it would for another team if we were talking about a mid market team like the blazers and they had that mid three with no draft picks then they would be a pretty shady situation but the next like the rare instance where it would be all right yeah definitely agree on that dog I don't I don't I agree but at the same time and I've been like this from the start of like the from the nets and how they constructed their big three how the clippers have constructed I don't like the idea of having of you know building up your culture for a year or two and now you have like these fun teams and then all of a sudden you throw it all out the window to come get these two stars for sure risky and they come in and run everything it hasn't worked out yet the only time it's worked out in terms of a championship is in miami and that was a decade ago the lakers just won 20 no but even then like even then they didn't have a culture that like

like even the young lakers right that wasn't that wasn't a culture we called them fun because they because it was los angeles but they sucked and the only time it works is if you have lebron james that's the only time it works consistent through line exactly you're right and i'm not saying it's ideal to build that way obviously you'd prefer to build the right way and have your graphics come up so you have cost control young talent in a way that makes sense to spread the booksheet the right way but the nix aren't anywhere close to that so it's either you start from scratch and you probably get rid of all the young talent you have now which talent's a little generous for a lot of their players but if it's either do that and you have just the beginning of rebuild or try to do

the free agency thing i can see it being worth at the risk for them the problem the problem with the Knicks. And what happened is as great as the playoff season was two years ago, it kind of threw everything off because you thought that they were still going to be in a rebuilding process and then they got a taste of success. And so now everybody in New York is like, okay, well, we actually have what it takes to kind of swing for the fences and try to make a move. When in reality, that was a complete outlier season. The defense was off the charts. The threes were falling. Julius Randall was in all NBA talent. Like that's never going to happen again. And so you kind of have to reeling your expectations moving forward.

You've got no faith in a Julia's comeback? No, Julie sucks. I want Julius out of here. I haven't wanted him since the day he signed. If he leaves tomorrow, it would be, if he leaves yesterday, it would be a day too soon. Get him out. I'm done. I'm so done with Julius Randall.

We've cut it off there. No more next talk. We've given them enough shine for a team that didn't get Donovan Mitchell. Let's move on to the Cavas. Mohamed, where do you think they stack up in terms of the hierarchy of the East now? Because they were already up there. We're already kind of a sneaky team, but now they're on a whole other level. Yeah, they're already damn good with Jared Allen, Evan Mowgli, and Darius Garland within itself.

But a lot of people who knew that they're missing some elite wing play, someone to alleviate a lot of pain and stress from Darius darling. He's not even a wing. Yeah, exactly. But, I mean, that length of, he is like a what, 6-8, 6-9? Yeah, I think it's 6-9 wingspan. Yeah, 6-9. wing span so even though he is on the shorter side of things that side is really deceiving but um at the end of the day they got better they got better guard play wing play guard play

pretty much go hand in hand and uh getting another creator doesn't hurt yeah exactly that's exactly what they needed now in my mind i ain't a lot i thought i was thinking of this is kind of funny but colin sexton is like a donovan mitchell is a zooted up version of colin sex and that's what a lot of cast fans wished and prayed If Colin Sexton was better in every single way Then you get Donovan Mitchell Exactly. Have you ever looked at their stats Like side by side?

That shit is freaky as hell Freaky as hell. Yeah, I think you'd be surprised at Colin Sexton's stats Last year the year before last Whenever Garland was a rookie game He averaged what 24.5 points or something like that Yeah, yeah I think he's less good of a player

Judge him like the eye test and impact than he is from the box sheet But that clearly does mean something Yeah, exactly But we all know that they're like those two are completely different Donald Mitchell is on a completely different level And this is why this podcast is a good balance, bro Because we're talking, you just get in your bag about the stats

And of course, like, you know what I'm saying Points for game, what a stat? Yeah, exactly But there are more over here So where do you think that they're going to end up? I think A lot of people are fucking saying, Oh my God, these dudes are

They're going to be finals contenders And no, they're not going to be finals contenders. I think they're going to be really damn good. And I think at best first year They're gonna be like top Any year from four to six That's where I got them four to six Okay four to six range

Yeah four is super solid I think people are putting Dumbass high expectations On to them right now Which is this hell on call for I got some dumb ass high expectations I'm not gonna lie in here Same here

So I assume you think the downside Is the fact that they have an undersized back court Which is really hard to succeed the playoffs I don't give a fuck about another bad losers okay well I don't either because normally I would normally it's a fucking terrible thing to have but when you have Evan Mowgli and Jared Allen probably the best defensive front court in the NBA to back them up I think that alleviates that so this is like the one situation where I think it makes sense to have two just dynamic offensive guards and

not have to worry too much about defense so because of that that combination of the one two punch from the guards on offense and the one two punch from defense of the bigs I think that gives them an insane ceiling if they can get both clicking at the same time I think they have the ceiling to be like the one of the maybe not the one C because the Health X are going to be really fucking good in the regular season, but they can be in the Hawks. And the Hawks. And I wouldn't be shocked at all.

Yeah, sure. The Hawks. But my thing, though, is like, bro, I understand how dynamic they're going to be, but their actual wing play, the Carossovers and the Isovers of the world, Isaac O'Cohr is a big-ass X-factor to me. For sure. Because, of course, that three-point shot, and in Carossover, you would think that he's a pretty good three-point shooter.

He should be a lot better for three-port shooter. They actually is. But his numbers are actually not. You know what I'm saying? And so I think Carozover would be best suited coming off the bench. If Carosarro was having an incredible year off the bench, and Isaac O'Crow was shooting at least like 34% from the three-point line on, like, what, four attempts per game or something like that,

then okay, I would then, like, conceive to whatever notion that you're trying to bring on to me. But as for now, Isaac has a lot to prove to me, bro. That's literally, I'm just stuck up on Isaac. You're right. He definitely has to be good a pretty bad, bro. Terrible name, fuck him That's I think that's fair

I think that's fair I will say this right now I think that the Cavs Have a serious serious shot Of making the Eastern Conference finals I think Same listen I think my my pick to win it off right now

And I'm gonna keep saying it I think the Milwaukee Bucks are winning the championship So I don't think that anybody's getting in their way But I think that I think that that Cleveland in front for all the reasons that Isaac laid out, you have a dynamic back court that we've seen that style, we've seen that style be able to advance in the playoffs, right? We've seen it with Dame and CJ, two undersized guards, offensive-minded, being able to

lead a team. And imagine if Damon C.J. had the defense of Mobley, who's going to take a leap on both ends of the floor this year and Jared Allen, who even if he takes a step back, exactly, even if Jared Allen takes a step back offensively, you're going to take a step back offensively, you have Donovan Mitchell who's 25 a night and if you just tell Jared Allen hey all you have to do is just block shots He can go out there and do that with the best of everybody in the NBA So I think from one through four all of them kind of in their primes Darius garland Borderline all-star dot boardline that borderline that borderline I think he's gonna be a boardline superstar at his prime

But he's already I'll start easily well I'm saying I'm saying right now did he did he make the outside team last year Yeah he did okay boom all start donovan Mitchell All-Star, Evan Mowgli, going to be an all-star, Jared Allen, all-star. You have four guys in your starting lineups who are all-stars. They have everything that you need. And then on the other side, like you said, Karras Leverk coming off the bench, they have all the ingredients. He's going to be a really popular pick for six minutes of the year, Karras.

Yeah, for sure. I don't think it's going to get the numbers. I don't know if there's a lot of teams in the East that have kind of the depth at, and there's not a lot of teams that have the depth that Cleveland does. And there's going to be so many lineups where they can stagger and give people rest and don't have to and still be able to throw kind of a lot at defenses it's going to be crazy you don't often see a team that has the ceiling that they not stealing the strength they have with that back court also have the perfect way to also have the perfect way to defend the weakness of that

same back court yeah having the own answer to your big biggest question is ridiculously rare and i know like we're talking about isaac of coro and the rest of the wings is the big question mark and i agree it is but if that's your biggest question mark and the strengths you have are so gigantic, I'm willing to bet that you're going to figure that question mark out to at least some degree of success. Yeah, exactly. I think, though, my only thing is first year, like, I think it's going to take some time from to figure out whether someone like Isaac Corro is legit. If not, they can pick up

some fucking cheap-ass option in the off-season. They'll be good for many years to come. My only thing is this year one talk is just absolutely absurd. And those expectations are pretty damn high. I don't think it is. I think it's absurd. I don't think it's absurd. Year one is crazy. I don't think they're getting past. I don't, I think they'd struggle against a team like the 76ers depending on how hardening comes back you know what's crazy you what

within the next year and a half to two years there's a very realistic world I'd say probably likely world that Donovan Mitchell is their third best player Garland could definitely pass him up he's on that trajectory and Mowley has as good of a ceiling as anybody if D. Mitch is your third best player you're obviously a championship contender I don't know

if someone like D Mitch or let I don't know if that I don't know if that'll actually happen I'm not saying that dynamic isn't to be that way but in terms of actual productivity and impact, I think he would very well be the third best player. You got to see this vision of the calves, the way that they are in two years. It's crazy.

And then they go and spend a draft pick on Brony. And then LeBron comes back. Oh, that'll make that. And they have this insane 2-K lineup. Like, listen, the calves are doing things with their lives. 41-year-old LeBron James between the right direction. LeBron name is going to go ahead and win that six minute of the year war, bro, worse come to worse than you can't start.

Isaac O'Corel's on the stride above him? Listen, LeBron is just a supercharged Isaac O'Coro. You know what I'm saying? No, but like there's, listen, they're moving it in the right direction, and they have a lot of things going for them. And, like, again, I just don't think that's crazy to think that this is going to be a team that when healthy last year, before they got derailed,

they were at the top of the east already. They were in the top four. And then injuries are good. Yeah, and injuries kind of, you know, mess up their whole season. Yeah, they're by far the most exciting team in the NBA, dog. But one thing real quick is that when, Isaac, when you first told me about this trade happening through the group chat, I was driving on the highway. And my mind was just so like, holy fuck, bro, they gave up on Mowgli already? Mobley already.

They traded Mowgli? I was like, there's no way because I don't know what, or Darius Garry or either one of those two, absolutely we have to go. And then I go on my phone or I, you know what I'm saying? I go on Twitter and I see these notifications. I see no Mobley, you know what I'm saying? Just a bunch of fucking random ass picks. Of course, Colin Sexton, I'm like, damn, like the, I think the Utah, I really do not like this trade for the Utah Jazz.

And, of course, of course, yeah, I don't like that trade for the Utah Jazz whatsoever. Like, in my opinion, you're going to suck regardless. I don't think someone like R.J. Barrett is going to, like, you know what I'm saying, propel your team insanely in the Western Conference, especially with the pieces that Well, the pieces that they'll have around as for now in the making of this recording are not that bad. But, yo, I just, I'd feel a lot more comfortable with the name like RJ Barrett, a part of your roster than fucking concepts. You got to think about it. So if they got RJ Barrett in there, RJ Barrett's being extended now, so he's already expensive.

And the Jazz are going to a full-scale rebuild. So they don't need expensive players right now. They need draft picks so they can build their own cupboard of just young assets and try to do the same trajectory as like the Hawks did, where they have all these young players and try to succeed while they're achieving. and what they got basically five first-on-picks for Rudy when you count Walker Kessler and then now three more for Donovan three more pick swaps and then they can probably flip section for another first-round pick they're loading themselves up to prepare for the future and it'd be one of those teams like the clippers or not the clippers like the O'KC or who else like the Thunder that I had just have like 15% of the NBA's draft picks over the next seven years that is a lot more promising than just having a 24-year-old RJ Barrett R.J. Barrett and of course you I think they would have gone, like, what, two less draft picks than if they would have went ahead and got up with the Knicks. But my thing is, though, is that, like, do you not care about, you know what I'm saying, maintaining whatever fans that you have left? Do you not want to see any Mormon kids and Mormon moms up in the stands anymore? Like, no one's going to be there, bro.

No one's showing up. No one's pulling up to watch what that new deal called gay sex. That's what they call them now. No one's going to watch it, bro. like I don't I like that's my big something about like from a business perspective I need something right now to supplement the pain and someone like RJ Barrett for pure vibes is exactly what we need calling sex and cool you know what I'm saying they're they're just about in the same tier as NBA players no one's fully sold on

them but you understand like they got game period you know but I just feel comfortable with someone like RJ Barrett and I would if I personally me I would have said fuck those two picks let me go ahead and get to the next one bro Gotcha. Okay, well, we keep talking about the Cavs compared to, like, where they can be in the West. I know we disagree on that. Let's put a firm decision on it compared to other teams. So I'm going to list some teams in the East right now.

You let me know if the Cavaliers are going to be better or worse than this season. So first, the 76ers. Worse. Worse. They're going to be worse than the Caps. I don't believe in James Harder. I don't believe in James Hardin. At all?

Just that blanketly? No, I don't. Listen, James Hardin has shown four. a year and a half now that he's watched and he's shown he's shown one game he's shown one game that he's been able to turn back the clock and be like a superstar officer player in terms of scoring the ball and distributing the ball he hasn't been able to to do it consistently and if he's going to be the guy and i guess he's not going to be the guy because imbid is is there right obviously but if you're going to be in a game six and hard and

is going to be your number two and he's taking two shots in the second half and you're not going to get any type of aggression or offensive production from him. I can't trust that. And so at least like down the stretch of the season, I don't trust, I don't trust Hardin. The thing is, I don't think he has to be a superstar for them to be at that top tier. Juelan Beat is so good now. He's been the second MVP for two straight years. If Hardin is just a good all-star, not the superstar he once was, just a good all-star, they can be at that tier. Their death is ridiculous now. Exactly, because he has a lot more help and also I think you're really underrating the possible development

of Tyrese. Exactly. It's hell of help. Yeah, I'm going to say the 76ers I'm going to go ahead and say the 76 years. They're going to be better in the Cavs, but just by a little bit. Yeah, definitely better than the Cavs, but also I say this mainly because of chemistry you said, bro. They've been and also, this is Hardin's first

offseason healthy in a minute now. So I think you're kind of making this a bigger issue when calling him watch you know. I mean, no, it's not, it's fair. it's fair to call and watch the one thing the the one concern that i do have with the sixers is the same concern that you always have with him is how many games is he is he going to play and it just listen even even this last year it's not it's not even his fault that he got his face broken but the fact

that he got his face broken just continues to show that he's something's going to happen and you're just waiting for it to happen so okay well we're going to say it's not his fault then why you bring it up it's a logical balance because no no because it happens it happens it happens it happens it happens it it's the same thing. It's the same thing that happens with Anthony Davis. He's injury prone. Some people are just unlucky and that just like happens to them. However, however for Anthony Davis, he could probably do some different things. But and be how many games is he going to play? I think that's a fair question going into any season. And so if he does end up missing a big chunk of the season, can you lead, can you lean on James Hardin to be that guy

again? And I'm not, I'm not sure about that. If James Hardin still has that ability to raise ceilings. Now they got a squad outside of Joe NB. They just signed what? Montres dope dealer. I'm just kidding. I shouldn't say that. I hate you just got that. They just went ahead and signed Mantras Harrow. They got his homie P.J. Tucker. Of course, like I said,

they got Tyrese Maxie. Like, this will be one of the lighter carrying jobs if Joe B wants to go down with some type of injury, bro. Yeah, exactly. So, I'm really rocking with the sixers, bro. They're going to be better. Me too. On the next one. Who's going to be better? The Nets or the Cavs? Caves.

Nets. I think the Nets would be better. I think the Nets are going to finish with a higher seed more than likely. But if we're just talking sealing in the playoffs, I think the Nets are still higher. Yeah, for sure. I think, I think that's fair too. If they are able, if the Nets are able to unlock Ben Simmons and just have him be like, I guess, a young Dremont, right? And that's kind of like the role that you need him to play. Be nasty if it works out. With Kevin Durant, with.

Kyrie that that's bro that's scary that's scary that ceiling is almost as high as when James Hardin was there when he was still good like that ceiling is ridiculous yeah I like that it so much better yeah so I okay I think I think I think I think regular season Cleveland

postseason and beyond yeah and just overall ceiling Brooklyn got it yeah that's okay bear bro Bahama's gonna love this one who's gonna be better the calves are the Hawks the Hawks for sure for sure I think I'm I think I'm picking the calves

I'm not glad to you why are you picking the calves bro I just don't understand that okay so when it comes to this back court no shut up when comes to this back court all right my bad look when it comes to the backboard dog what Trey young isante Murray and and and hold on

Trey young and Ajante Murray and Dary is going on a Donovan Mitchell okay I understand what you're talking about and the ceiling of those two come by mind is a little bit higher because Donovan Mitchell and DeJante Marie are on slightly different tiers, not slightly, they're

on different tiers, point bank period, but in terms of like fulfilling exactly what you need, what their partner needs, DeJante does that so much better for Trey Young. And as a whole, when it comes to the team, I believe they have, look, I can't say that, oh, John Collins

better than Evan Mobley and fucking Darren Downs, like, they're worse, they're worse. And that's what it comes down to. Maybe that point are doing, how the Hawks are going to be better? Trey Young's better. Maybe that's the best player, period. That's it.

And then the Hawks have, and then the Cavs have the next four best players. Like, what's your point? That doesn't really matter because Tri-Young is Trey-Young. He's going to do what he does best. He's Trey-Young, not LeBron James. Yay! Okay, Trey-Young is like one of the, he's the best offense, or let me, let me slow down. Relax.

He's a top three offensive player in the entire NBA. That's not crazy to say. I don't know he's not. That's not crazy to say. Maybe he's top Top three, come on Top three, easy Top three, he's a fucking engine

Steph Curry, Kevin Durant, LeBron James Okay, I'm not taking Kevin Durant Offensively, I'm not doing that You're taking Trey Young over Kevin Durant offensively Yeah, most definitely This man is drunk Offensively Today's September 6th, if I have like you're

Yeah, yeah And you're taking Kevin Durant And you're taking Tray Young over Kevin Durant Offensely? Yeah, I'm standing on that I'm not taking LeBron James I'm probably not taking Seth Curry probably not taking Nicole Iokic

but over Kevin Durant yes that's not crazy to say what no it is okay listen listen if this is your if this is your team and you're gonna write it like I understand why you're saying this this is a regular season ass argument yeah but it's like

it's not a great argument after what we saw from these teams recently again granted Katie got destroyed by the Celtics 2 but what we saw the heat do the tray and compared to what we saw a KD dude to the bucks a year before last? Like, this is a crazy take. I don't think this is a crazy take.

Muhammad, Muhammad, listen, no, it is a crazy take because the Hawks aren't even going to make the playoffs. Okay, now that is a big crazy. You can't say my team's crazy when you say something like that. Again, and I can give you the teams,

I can give you the teams right now. Let me stay on task. No, I don't even want to hear those teams because you're going to make me throw up, and I just got this whole new setup, bro. You know how long? Let me not. Okay. Well, I'm just going to put it like this.

I feel like the Hawks are a better team because, A, you know what I'm saying? I believe the chemistry is going to be much more on par than what the Cleveland Cavaliers have. This is not last minute, but the regular season is what a month away. So I'm throwing that back during there. I'm also throwing in, I believe our defense has a chance to be slightly worse, slightly worse, not a hell of a lot worse. But our offense, I believe, is what's going to be taking us over the Cleveland Cavaliers. I want to see Also, this is really reliant

This is really reliant This is really reliant on the development of Yolki Okongwu This is really relying on the development of Okongwu I'm going to take the development of Evan Mowgli Over the development of O'Yaka Okongwu Yeah, that's just me But all right Now we're talking about the cast backcourt versus the Hawks backcourt

Let's do this with their backcourt now Okay Which backcourt are you taking actually the movie started which back core are you taking you know I'll just for a TikTok you guys so you know I gotta make sure I say it right yeah yeah yeah

which back core are you taking the Cavs back court or the 76ers I'll take I'll take the Cavs back court I'll take the I'll take the Cavs back court I'm telling you I'm not high even if he's watched I'm not high on James Hardin

I can tell I just I'm just not and the same thing that we were talking about with with Trey and it's like even if Trey's the the best player than the cabs have the next four even if hard is is the best player donovan mitchell and dari's garland are better than tyrese maxi and so i will take i'll take i'll take both i'll take both of them over over uh over the six yeah i would say that gap the gap is too crazy to say that yo like the sixers have a better back court i would definitely agree

that the calves are better have a better back gotcha what about versus lucidon so this is funny so it's basically one v two yeah you're taking the cabs back court or the mavericks back court taking the mass i'm taking the math i'm taking the man then when he's a second person there i'm i'm taking luca and whoever damn i'm looking and whoever damn he didn't look at me like listen man lucas put tim tibu out there i'm still picking lucca right dude lucca is different listen i have somebody who said who said some screens for him uh yeah it's simple luca yeah i think i have to agree to i love dari's garland but he's not luca yeah Okay, what about the Cavs back court or the Grizzlies back court?

Cavs. John Bain, by the way. Caves. I'll take John and Bain. I'll take John and Bain. This one's hard. Jaws obviously the best player there, and I'm really high on Bain. I think Bain's better than like 90% of NBA fans seem to think.

But I think I'm probably still going to go to the Cavs back court if I have to pick one. I will go. I'll go with Jai and Bain, and my reasoning is Jai is one of the best. he's one of the best scores in the paint in the league in terms of driving on the inside then you have then you have bain who can compliment him with his shooting on the outside and and he and bain is the best defender out of out of any one of those four and so you have and so you have john you have john bain who complimenting each other so well have a little bit of defense so i'll take them over over garland and and middwell i don't think it's like

a huge huge gap i don't think it's a huge huge gap but i'll take the grisleys I think you swayed me. I think I'm going to go with the Grizzlies too. Yeah, I ain't a lot. I think you may have just took me on that side too. But the problem is, so you're right on paper, they make more sense. But in the playoff setting against defenses when you have to make hard shots, having that combination of off the dribble shot creation that you have with Garland and Donovan is ridiculously valuable.

It's so much harder to stop. Yes, it is. But it is. But when the guy driving downhill is John Morant, you can't really stop him. Like, it's not a lot of doing his playoff proof at this point. Like, we've seen him do it at the high. level would not be slowed down at all really yeah yeah you're right i'm taking the gris maybe a year from now i'm going to take the calves but as as of now bro i'm definitely going to go with

the rissies yeah all right well we got those two tic talks out of the way let's get into our eastern conference preview i said the top of the show we're going to go week by week we're going to preview some different NBA teams we're going to start with the division of the calves what is that the what's the name of that division i'm terrible with this this is the central division gotcha we're going to preview the central division where you talk about the cabs we don't got to rehash that let's talk about the Chicago Bulls how are you all feeling just generally about the Bulls going in the next year damn not miss Lonzo bro they go miss Lonzo already's not going to be ready at the start of the season which fucking sucks

and I'm not feeling good about them like whatsoever to be honest but what's the only offseason move that they made who they bring in Andre Drummond drummond drummond is going to make that much that big of a difference no yeah I'm not feeling good like the fact of their biggest move bro the biggest move that excites fans for the Bulls right now is the fact they have somebody else that allows them to not play the starting center. The fact, that's the predicament they're in is that they're hoping their star center

doesn't have to play. I'm not promising. That's not promising to me. The only thing that'll move the Bulls is like someone like Pat Will, the paw, but to be honest, where I'm not really sold in them 100% yeah. Is that what they call it? Yeah.

They call them the paw. Yeah. Okay. It's also really tough because last year, I think you got the very best outcome of what you can expect from De Rosen and Levine together as a duo. Are they can better do that again?

And are we going to get the version Then we saw on the second half of the season When they didn't have the great defensive guard play next to them Or what we saw in the first half I don't know Yeah I think Yeah I think what we're going to see from the Bulls right now It's kind of what I expected to see from them

At the start of last season And you're going to see You're going to see a lot of offense But when you have Levine de Rosen and Booch In your starting lineup Who's guarding who right? You're just going to be looking around asking like yo who's man is this

every single play and so like i i don't know i think i think they they're probably going to be fighting for a playing spot in the east um probably around you know seven or eight we'll see we'll see we'll see what the hawks do but that's probably their ceiling yeah i think it's been it's been a real popular pick to say they're going to fall out of the playoffs and it's really simple and easy to do that because people say oh the hawks are going to make it and so-and-so's going to make it knock them out so it almost feels lazy but i think i have to agree especially with lons not being fully healthy. Yeah, if Lonzo was in this equation, then it would be a completely different story.

Yeah. Out of any team in the league, they're the most reliant on their role players of like any other contender. Like, they're so reliant on Lonzo, Caruso, and Pat Will, just holding the defense up by their fucking teeth, just fighting, scratching claws. They got no room for error. They tried to make them at least decent at end. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. If they miss any extended period of time, they're sinking like we saw last year.

So, like you said, you said they're going to be in the seven to eight range. Do you think they're making the playoffs? uh i i think they end up making it i i actually do we'll see the one the one team that i think will have to make a jump in order to knock them out it's going to be charlotte um i'm not not making the playoffs listen listen if we're if we're talking about like who's who's going to go and who's going to jump they charlotte would charlotte kind of seems like the next team up in terms of who maybe if miles bridge wasn't hoping for the rikers island facility team then maybe they'd have a chance exactly

Exactly. Listen, that's obviously the question. Like, we don't really know his status for this year. But the hornets, they've been in the plane for the last two years. If they have everybody, then they have the talent. And you would think with the growth that Lamello is going to make, that they would be in position to make that jump. So, like, they would, they would be the team in my eyes that would take that jump, especially when, with, with Mark Williams, the guy that they drafted they finally kind of addressed the the rim defense that that they needed so they're they're taking steps forward but i'd still i say all that to say chicago's probably still going to make it over them yeah you said the room defense is such a big issue for the hornets and yeah mark

williams i think i'm butcher his name what's the name again yeah mark williams right it's mark william right okay why did i think his name was something other than mark for a second yeah mark williams is going to hopefully address that in the future but in the present you still got rely on plumbly so it's not looking great yeah yeah no bro i don't see anything i don't see, if anything, I see the Hornets like regressing, so that's not even the team that I'm worried about. If anything, again, like, if you really believe the Hawks are going to be bad like that,

the Knox are going to be a threat. Then there's, of course, the Toronto Raptors, I think they're going to be a lot better, because Scotty Barnes is probably, is going to be a lot better as well. And who are some other teams? There's so many teams in my mind that are better than the Hornets. I don't, I'm not too high in the Hornets in here at all. They didn't do shit.

That's fair. They're the only young team that hasn't done shit, which is annoying as hell. If you had to guess, Base off their team last year, what do you think Chicago's rim defense ranked in the NBA last year in terms of opponent accuracy? Probably, I'll say like if 30, if first is like best in the league 30 is worse, they were probably somewhere around like 27, 28. With Vucevic Manning of the rim?

Yeah. That's what I would say. I would say like 23, 22, rim defense. They were seventh. They were somehow a good rim defense. Oh, wow. For the whole season. Hey, Caruso was.

whooping at the rim that like he was blocking shots yeah he had to be doing something that's that's very surprising wow it's crazy yeah who wasn't the mix for them what's his name uh daniel gafford was he really making that much noise no but when you wonder what the problem is i'm saying is to say they did a decent job defending the rim but they were dead last an opponent volume by a huge margin not by huge margin actually but they were dead last so teams were getting to the rim 36% of their shots even if you so if they shoot seven if there's seventh in accuracy which means they're i can go back to the that would be 24th on the back end

so they were allowing teams to score there they shot 64% on rim shots the best in the league shots 60% so that's a 4% difference that's good but when you're allowing them to get there every single time it really doesn't matter how well you're defending it because rim shots are

one of the most efficient shots in basketball so even if you are giving them a 64% that's still really efficient getting there all the time it's not a good recipe and I say that to say again that allow teams to get to the rim a lot isn't necessarily just about the center they need to get their guard play back up and clearly with lonso and caruso out they were just turnstiles out

their teams getting to the rim every five seconds yeah exactly a lot of like bro i remember a lot of chicago bulls fans are all in a fucking ruddy gober and literally that wouldn't have made a difference or so whatever they would put themselves in the exact same disaster that the utah jazz were literally in so it's a very good for all the credit that damar and levin got last year for being great they were not great on defense i'll tell you that like it's not all vuzovitch's fault Those two guards are horrendous on defense, and it's hard to build a defense around that. Right, so we all think they're going to be borderline playing,

maybe miss the team, maybe even miss the playoffs entirely. So let's move on to watch the next team, how to burp through that. What do you all think about the pistons going in next year? I think the pistons are going to be fun. I think that the pistons, low-key, the pistons can sneak into the play-in. They can sneak into the play-in,

and they can make the playoffs. So you think Kay's going to make a big leap? I do. I think he's going to make. make a big league i think jaden ivy is a start jada ivy's nice man and like listen when and i again it's just summer league i don't want to get too too high but he was cooking absolutely everybody and the only thing that could stop him was was the was the twisted ankle i think that back court is going to be extremely fun to watch and extremely hard to guard and i i think the pistons have

a chance they i think if anything they even outside of just the fact that those two players are extremely talented in front of the watch they complement each other so well the things that cade kind of struggles with in terms of you know pure athleticism getting to the room with your burst and you know just bending the defense in that way he's not as good as that as some of the other elite perimeter players that's exactly what ivy's great at so the fact they can complement each other like that makes me really excited about their no ceiling yeah exactly 110% agree uh i just i think the business is going to be good this season not great i think that we're going to be pretty damn close if not in the plan then they're going to be definitely fighting for that spot

hell of closely but um i just don't think that y'all are really excited about the pistons absolutely i think and i listen Isaac knows this about me for years i've wanted the pistons to to be good it is weird how much you care about the pistons considering your future in texas i am so happy that that that the pistons actually have potential this year and that they're going to be like you know solid and so the fact that the listen mom the fact that you're jumping on the bandwagon with me that's i love my only i think i think are you doing the same i don't think no i hate to be the bear bad news here but they're not going to be a playing team i'm excited to watch them to you they're spunky

they had this young core this guy they're not going to be that good right away they don't have a solid enough to guard jane ivis is not solid enough next year he definitely will be there but as of now they're just too young is going to be doing too much they're way too young year two jade and i be completely different story you know what i'm saying different story but uh i think they're too young and uh if they were to do something like that and Sadiq Bay is going to have a crazy jump, and I don't think he has at him to have a crazy jump. Yeah, you would need Sadeg Bay to make a good jump,

and you would need Kay Cunningham to just be the superstar we think he could be right away. So that would be what it takes. He need to make, like, a Luka jump from year one to two for him then to be, like, in his conversations. And I love Cade, but I don't think he's going to be like a top 15 player next year. I think it's going to take a little bit of time for him.

Yeah. Okay, okay. So I'm excited about their outcome, too, but not that excited. So next team up in this division is the pace I don't have a lot to say about the Pacers. I think they're one of the most bland teams in the league going the next year. Tyrese is fun.

I love Miles Turner. He's going to get traded. Other than that, I don't have much to say about them. Yeah, I don't know what to say about them at all, bro. One thing that I have to say is like, damn,

I remember one, I remember a couple podcasts ago when we were doing our whole TikTok thing. I said that, you know what I'm saying? If any guard in the Eastern Conference is going to go ahead and make the all-star game, it has to be like someone like Tyrese Halliborne. But that just got torn his shredders because Donovan Mitchell

is in the, what, Eastern Conference now. So, yeah, one less lot. I think you're just going to have put up sexy numbers, you know what I'm saying? But other than that, I just don't really have any expectations for the Paces because they're going to reek. They're going to do what the Paces do. Suck ass. Same here.

Yeah. We can move on. Yeah, they've been so mediocre for so long. And I'm glad to see they're finally botting them out and kind of like going towards the rebuild. So good for them. I'm glad they're doing it, but it doesn't make a whole lot to say about it. And now we're in new clothes because we had to wait an extra day to finish this episode

because we're some technical difficulties, but, Now we're going to finish it. I think we have one more player preview to do. I mean, team preview. I can't talk. I've got to do the bucks. Bro, I'm not a new clothes. Right before this podcast started, y'all,

you don't believe what Isaac said to me. This man said my durag smell like Viena sausages. Oh, my God. He's the only one that got the same fit on. You've had this year is six? Yeah. No. No, this duress?

Fuck no, bro. No, I'm talking about Viena sausages. Oh, my God. Oh, okay, okay. Oh, fuck. Oh, fuck. You got a 17-year-old du rag, Jesus. Yeah, we got to talk about the Bucks now to finish up this player.

I keep saying player, to finish up this teen conference preview. So, how are y'all feeling about the Bucks won the next season? I know Donovan is very opinionated about them. You already know what it is. You already know what it is. The Bucks are winning the championship. I've been telling you all, it's a rap. It's a rap.

If Chris Middleton didn't get hurt. Okay. If Chris Middleton didn't get hurt, they were winning the chip last year. You bring them back. Yonis. I'm not, listen, I don't want to fall into offseason workout videos, but I'm kind of falling into into offseason workout videos. His jumpers looking nice.

And if he can be more than just 25%, it's a wrap. It's a wrap on the rest of the league. I think it's hard not to have championship expectations or at least view them as the, well, not clear favorites, but like in the top two or three, they're going to be obviously that good, barring health. Yeah, bro. Top, Yonis, peak Yonis. Go ahead.

I'm saying they took the Celtics to a game seven without Chris Middleton, Drew Holiday was shooting poorly. Grayson Allen couldn't make a shot. None of their shooters were making threes. And Grant Williams had the game of his life in a game seven, right? So it's like there was just so much luck that happened against the Bucks last year that if you think that that's going to, you know, kind of come back to the mean, then I think that the Bucks can go toe to toe with anybody and they'll probably come out because they'll probably come out

because they have the best player in the world right now yeah i don't think that's none crazy to say bro the bucks have one of the best players in NBA history in my mind and of course what that being your team is just going to naturally see a whole lot of success and there's just nothing that anyone can really do about it bro so yeah and plus they bring them back pretty much all their important supporting cast members which they brought back bobby portis they lost don't de vincenzo but if you watched dante de vincenzo play last year you don't give a shit about about Dante Divencenzzo. So I guess the only thing that you could possibly have a concern with is

Brooke Lopez is one more year older. And when they're at their peak... It's coming off a back issue too, right? Yeah, exactly. And when they're at their peak, it's because him and Janus are combining to be, like, the scariest rim duo in the NBA on defense. So if they lose that, they're going to be a different type of team. But they haven't lost that yet, but, you know, it's always a worry going into

another year with him. Yeah, bro, let's keep it simple with the bucks. They elite. Yeah, we all think they like that. Okay, wait. So we're going to be... But, okay, so I... So obviously, like, I still, I have championship, like, basically it's championship or bust for the bucks.

In the regular season, though, how do you think that they're going to play the regular season? Do you think that they're going to go for the number one season? Do you think they, like, fall into that three, four range potentially? Do they kind of play it safe? How do you guys see that going? A lot of people always keep saying these things, like, I don't know what the bucks are going to try because, you know, other teams of their ilk have in the past stopped trying a regular season. I've seen nothing to suggest that they're going to be that type of team.

I've seen nothing that suggests Yonis is going to be that type of player. So I think they're going to be in the mix for the one, two, and three seed, like they have been every year. I don't see any reasonably otherwise. Yeah, exactly, but I agree. I don't, I've never in my NBA existence have seen someone like Yonnas take his foot off of the fucking gas or, you know what I'm saying, coast during the regular season at all. Like people used to compare this man before he really got on and was noticed as, holy shit, this dude is damn near, this dude is generational. People used to compare him to Baby Westbrook simply because of his motor. And that's it.

He gives a shit every night. So there's no such thing of like, you know what I'm saying? Cokes him through the regular season. And because of that, I think the Bucks will be at least the top two seats. Worst case scenario like three. And if they're three, only because of injuries. Yeah. I think people, people are so used to LeBron teams.

And with LeBron being the best player in the NBA, they're used to him not trying in the regular season. So that kind of sets a precedent in their mind, thinking that every best player in the NBA is to behave that way. But that's just not who Janus is. And especially with how they lost last year, he's a type to, you know, come back hungry and all the cliches you want to throw out there it's probably true for him because he's the type to like

create his own demons in his head and have this crazy motivation create his own demons in his head dude that is some maniac like white stray jacket type shit right there oh my goodness that's the top of dude yonis is yeah that's true i gotta be angry every night and it makes me great so it is what it is but he's not like i said he's not going to take his foot off to guess

yeah agreed but i think that's all we got to say about this division which a day later i still can't remember what the fuck this division's name is Something remind me, please? The central division. If you quiz me on name all six divisions, I'm family. I couldn't do it.

What? Yeah. Dude, I'm directionally challenged. Don't ask me for no directions. I barely know my left and right, bro. I'm sorry to God. I move schools like every year growing up, so I just kept missing geography at every school I went to. I just kept leaving a few weeks before that.

So I don't know shit about that. Yeah, same, bro. It's terrible. Yeah. But I think we can move on to some TikTok topics, which y'all know that's the main thing we do. So we're going to give y'all a sneak peek and record the rest of them here. I think, Muhammad, I think you got one about 2K you want to get out of here, right?

Yeah, let's go ahead and get straight to it. All right, let me bring up the thing on my screen. So, okay. So the new 2K ratings just came out. Okay. You can't talk. Yeah, I can't talk. So the new 2K ratings just came out,

and I want you guys to guess their NBA ratings. All right, you ready? Yeah, listen, I'm glad Muhammad is the one that's, like, that's behind this and I'm not guessing against him. Because again, like I told you the last time, Muhammad be on the game. He'd be grinding part. I don't.

He'd be grinding my team. All of that. So I'm glad to have to guess against him. For those who don't know, we made a video last week where we did the same thing, but I was someone asking the question. So Muhammad and Donovan were guessing the 2K ratings. Muhammad got him all right. He was just sweeping Donovan's ass with crazy.

I just got hell of knowledge. That's it. I swear to God, my place. You know, you're collecting dumb-ass dust. I don't play the game. I don't play the game. All right. All right.

All right. So you guys probably, a lot of them leaked, and I know you guys probably saw. a few of them, so I'm just going to give you guys I've seen almost none. Just don't say jaw, no jaw. Yeah, I'm not going to say jaw. Okay, so where do you think someone like Zion Williamson is rated? Zion.

I'm going to go, I feel like they might be a little more conservative because he hasn't played in the past year, so I'm going to go 88. I'm going to go 91 with Zion. Wow. 88 is a good-ass guess. It's 87. Oh, damn, they want more conservative than I thought. Yeah. I guess he's got to earn that rating back, but that's fine. Okay.

Yeah, 87 kind of crazy. He's going to finish like 92, I think. That would be good. Honestly, 92, what do you think someone like Jaws going to finish then? If they're going to be as good as you think they will be. I think they're going to be equally good. So I know Jaws 93 right now, so maybe Zion will get to 93-ish. If Zion, if Zion finishes at a 92,

if Jai has like the same season like he did last year, Joss finishing at like a 94. Hmm. Where do you guys think? what do you guys think Devin Booker rated fuck hold on what do you

what do you guys think Devin Booker's rating is Devin Booker I know they fucking love Devin Booker considering us on the cover If the cover boy I'm gonna think I think they're being really

overly ambitious I'm gonna say 91 I'm gonna say 90 I think they're gonna just I think they're gonna give him the like cover athlete respect and then they won't disrespect them by putting him in the 80s

so they're giving that extra boost but I think 91 that 91's crazy to me there's a jaws of 93's I don't know 91 is absolutely correct bro they say that man is better than kairie damien lewitt he was better than damar de rose and trey young paul george how do you guys feel about that some of those names we'd have a conversation i think devon book is definitely in that tier i like that i like that i like that

he's better than rosen i'll tell you that he's better to that name like that was close de rosen you threw der rosen in there you just sprinkled him in there like he's in the same caliber get out of you well yeah i would say der rosen had a much better individual season last year but you know i think that i just had really he just did better because his expectations were lower. Booker was better than DeRosen last year. You just thought DeRosen wasn't going to be that good. So seeing that was a big difference in expectations. Yeah, that is good. That is a good ass perspective to have. All right. So one of the last ones that's kind of surprising me that I want to ask you guys is Lamello Ball. Gets his 2K.

Lamello Ball. Lamello Ball, guess his 2K rating. Lamello Ball. If Zion is in 87, I'll say Lamello is in 88. I see no. I'm going to go 87. I'm going to go 87. Swiss that. 86 for me 86 okay cool now this opens up a bigger conversation what do you guys think Brandon Ingram is rated then

are you gonna tell us Lamelo yeah I'm gonna tell you Lamella after you guys guess Brandon okay okay who do you think is better basically I think I think probably

Ingram's a little bit better right now I'm gonna say Ingram's in 88 I thought they gave him a little bit of respect yeah Ingram is an 86 and Lamella is 87 Oof that's so weird bro yeah i don't know i mean i get it in terms of when you look at two k ratings

ingram's really good but he has clear faults he's not a good defender he's an okay passer he has you know limitations that would affect ratings wise because his defensive stats are just going to be low so i guess i get it lemelo's a little more well-rounded which probably lends itself to two-k stats better yeah but like you talk about about bi's defense lemelo's defense is also garbage so it's crazy that like i think it's the pasting i mean it's not great passing that really takes the mode to a whole new level yeah and he's a good even though i think ingram was an underrated passer my opinion. Oh, Ingram's for sure an underrated passer, but he's not Lamelle.

You know what I mean? Like, even though he's an underrated passer position, he's still not going to have like a 90 pass accurate here, nothing like that. Yeah, facts, facts. I think that was all the, like, pretty much like, holy shit, what the fuck would, like, reactions to these, uh, ratings? Because you saw what was Yonis the highest rated player? Uh, yeah, he is. What's, what's, Janus's rating? Yonis is in 97. Okay.

okay so what is like curry lebron all then like 96 yeah curry curry lebron kie joel step and yokech are all 96 they're all tied that's that's fair those are really tight group of players like even though yonnes in there like these players like the top seven are incredibly close yeah exactly if you told me two years ago that i was going to say joel and b was just as good as step curry i would have been like what the fuck are you talking about but yeah he's kind of on the level now yeah exactly let's see another one Pretty often, we have, let's do another video now, another TikTok.

We pretty regularly do this segment where we have fans drop their hot takes and we react to them. So we're going to do that again right now. So, let's go. So I got some hot takes here. I want you out to let me know if these are W takes or L takes. Swayze says that Luca is a top four player in the NBA right now. It's a W take. It's a W take because it's, it's believable.

Like, like, I don't think. I don't listen I don't think that it's like crazy to to say that if you especially if you're like projecting that forward into listen I love Luca as much as anybody but this is an L take is he better than Janice no you just give me yes or no yes or no answers is he better than yes is he better than Steph is he better than Yokic possibly could be okay no he's he's not no anyways is he better than Bron is he better than Braun but I think that might be a conversation. No, it is not.

I think that might be a conversation. Is he better than Embed? This is the close one, I guess. I think that might be a conversation. I think he's better than Embed. When you ask these questions, what do you mean by better than us? Just like straight up the better player, like right now, what do you do on the court? You said like that?

Who's more impactful to winning basketball? That's how I view it. Who's more impactful in winning basketball? I feel like someone like Luka. If you want to win a basketball game, who are you taking? Luca. Over yoke. Yeah, I'm taking Luca right now.

yeah and that's that's that's fair that's that's fair i don't i don't think in a vacuum listen i wouldn't take i wouldn't take luka over over yokitch but like we're talking about like one game maybe in a vacuum you saw what luka was able to do with jalen brunson and spencer dinwitty as his as his running mates like this i don't think it's crazy to look at him and say oh it's wild how just how much he can elevate the rest of his team do you think yokitch could have done the same thing that Luca did this past year's playoffs no yes he did it two years ago not too it was it three years ago on the bubble he made the western conference finals like he made an incredible run he came back but that was but that was with jamal murray going super saying yeah that was

like yeah it was it was oh so you're saying in terms of having nobody with him yeah exactly okay yeah i'm okay i'm not trying to diminish luca i'm like the biggest luca fan in here i'm sure i'm just saying we shouldn't take it too far if what we all really mean is he's going to it's not a no-border you're right it's not at all I think he's going to be a top four player for sure for the next decade but right now he's probably more like fifth to six maybe seventh yeah that's okay not crazy which is you know splitting hairs it's splitting hairs

because these people are all super close together next one Taylor says that the clippers can't talk Taylor says that the clippers are going to win the finals yeah I'll take I'll take the clippers will never know happiness they are a lame organization this is coming from a Knicks fan so I don't know this hit the soul bro Listen, listen, listen, listen, listen. The Clippers are the definition of a lame little brother organization, okay?

Tough. They are, they are. They have Steve Ballmer who just likes to act wild on the sideline, and then it was like, oh my gosh, you're so cool because he has a lot of money. Shut up, shut up, okay. She's mad as a hater. They have, listen, they have, they have, they have, they have, they have, they have, they have, they have, they have, they have, they have, they have, they have, they're not making it to the, to the Western Conference finals. And that's that.

It's just that simple. I refuse to to root or to support any type of lame activity. And Paul George is the poster board of that. Oh, my God. What? I think they're probably going to be a Western Conference Finals team. Yeah, Paul George is lame, Muhammad. He's lame.

I like Paul George, but I get it. I think there's probably going to be a Western Conference finals level player. Relax. You do. That's crazy. That's crazy. I don't like Paul George that much, but apparently you do. I do.

I like him. He's the part of the reason why I'm in basketball. Anyways, back to that point, though. I think that's a W-take because of how deep this team is. And now they have John Wall, who is a, obviously, even though he's been, like, literally ran through with injuries, he's still, like. Yeah, my verbiage is crazy right now. But he's still one of the best facilitators in the NBA and still will be one of the best pastors, even though his athleticism had declined. his IQ was still there and that doesn't decline them.

So you're fucking 50, 60, 7 years old and you got dementia and something like that, bro. Tell that to Russell Westbro. I think they're going to be great. That's me. I think they're going to be good. That's not an L-Take, bro. Yeah, I'm going to go L-Tick because I think the Warriors are going to be the team that comes out of the West, but I won't be shocked at all if the Clippers are in that mix.

I will only, I only think the Warriors do something like that if and only if either a Moses-Moodie or John and Camilla makes that second-year leap and can actually contribute on a consistent basis. That's the only reason. And I'm willing to make that assumption that one of those players is going to pop off. And maybe even wise...

I think it's going to be moody. Some of those people are going to make big jumps. Yeah. All right, next one. Sports, we're going to do another Celtics... Oh, not Celtics. Spoiler.

We're going to do another finals-related one. Sports says that the Celtics are going to make the finals again. L-take. L-Tade. Tough. Yeah, I think I'm going to go L-2. There's just so many good teams out there now

and my pick's probably going to have to be the bucks. And the Celtics could make it, but I'm not going to bet on it. Hold on. I feel like we did the question like this. I think we did a question super sermon to like this before. And at that time, a couple weeks ago, I swear to God, I said something about this being a W take about the subjects and making the finals because they had Malcolm Broughton on their team now. Yes, I think we said they're going to win one in the next two years was the other one. Okay. Yeah, sweet.

I don't want to say this is a L take. No, it is. But for the sake of like, yo, seeing all them clips about Janus, bro, for now this, for now is the LJ, simple as that. Hold on. Did we do this exact take? I can't remember now. I feel like we did. Because I said something about Malcolm Brown.

This is a very, like, deja vu conversation. Yeah. You know, people will be commenting the same shit over and over again, so I got to search through and try to find unique lines. It's tough. Yeah. Look, it's the off season, right? We kind of got to repeat themselves. Once the season gets started, I can't wait to see where everybody says during.

the season. Facts. All right, let's move on in the next one. How do you say this guy's name? Rye of Doom says that the wolves are going to make the one seed. The wolves? This is a fat-ass L. Oh, my goodness.

What? They might not be good. They might not be top five. Yeah, I think they might be in that four or five-six range. They're going to be really good. And at first I was down on them. I'm a little bit higher on them now. But one seat is ridiculous.

I don't see it. But then again, Rudy Gaubert is kind of a regular season wins factory, so you never know. That is true. Best case scenario for them in my mind is top three, bro. Top three seed, and that's a magnificent season. And then they'll get bounced out in the second round or first round. If him and Donovan Mitchell could get their way to the one seed,

there's no reason that him, Kat, Anthony Edwards, Daniels, there's no reason they can't. Yeah. But I'm still not going to predict it. I'm just being contrarian. Okay, wait. I got one else top of my head. I got a domer.

I got a domer. okay give us a domer pause well how do you start off how do you start your your takes again separate this take is it L take or W take

just say it just say it what's the hot take all right I all right new hot take lamella ball

is going to be the next young star to request the trade out of his team right now fuck let me re-say that because that sounds so fucking weird

um yeah we're recording the mellel ball is going to be the next star NBA player to the demand a trade away from his franchise. Don't be take or outtake. I think that's an outtake.

It's kind of hard to predict. I don't know. Yeah, that's the next one, no. He has so many years left under his contract. I allowed to. We've been talking about shipping him and Goberry out of Utah for like two years now. Yeah.

I think it's an outtake because it's an outtake because Lamello has so many years left on his contract that it's just tough to be in that position to be able to us trade out. But I wouldn't be shocked if one day he does because a lot of stars would probably want to leave a place. like Charlotte.

Yeah. This is a good tangent, though. Who's going to be the next star to request a trade? You know, no matter of fun, let me say this. Listen, listen, listen. Hey, oh, hey, I know what this motherfucker. Hey, I know what you're going to say.

Yeah, no, no, no, no, no, no. Hey. Who do you all think is going to be the next NBA star to request a trade? You already know. And Mohammed's going to hate it. Trey, yeah. It's why.

What have we done to, to this? please someone like try young we've done nothing but right by him except for a couple years you know what we teamed him up with viz Vince Carter's corpse and Kevin herder and you know what I don't think it's true young but if the dejante Murray trade doesn't work out which is very possible then they're kind of stuck in a place where there's not a lot of ways to upgrade so it wouldn't be shocking if they have to well so it wouldn't be shocking if at that point he wants to leave but I'm not going to predict it look tray young and and it's it's for in my in my eyes it's either Trey Young or Luca, right?

Okay, you've got to get that hate out of your heart, bro, right? No, no, but here's the reason why. Here's the reason why. If either one of those two guys who are extremely ball-dominate and do absolutely everything for their team's offense, if they get tired of just having to carry that much of the load by themselves and they're not adding, and their teams are not adding help for them, then yeah, they might look around and be like, hey, I need to go somewhere else where I have at least one other person.

Like, DeJante Murray is nice. He's not the guy to get you to the conference finals again. He's not the guy to get you to the finals, right? Luca's going to look around and say, hey, Jalen Brunson just left, and you guys left me here with Spencer Dinwiddie and Tim Hardaway, Jr. There's not a lot to work with. So if they get tired, yeah, they're going to want out. And they're going to want to go play with some real basketball players.

You got to get the head out of your heart because you said that while Chegillis Alexander is standing right there and also someone like DeNon Foxx's They're right there, too. They're not stars. Come on. Stop playing. Stop playing. Don't play with him, okay?

If you're going to play with some. Bro, Dairn Fox is not a motherfucker. Are you out of your mind? Dude, Deer Fawkes and he's just been in a tear. He loves Dian Fox. He loved Dian Fox. You like, tell the truth or not. Dude, tell the truth or not, swear to God.

Isaac, you may be right. Guess what? My high school where I graduated were from, it was purple, too. I got a little bit of purple. Do you know what purple means means royalty, right? Anyways, if I was to be a fan, dude, We're supposed to be recording TikToks right now.

I'm not having conversations. Fuck. I got to format myself. I got a low-key. I got a pick for this topic about the next start of request of trade. I low-key think it might be Joelle Embed. If you think about it, he's been the most unlucky star in the NBA for the last four years. Jimmy Butler leaves.

Ben Simmons falls apart. The Kauai shot goes ding-dink, ding-dink. James Harder finally gets here. He's fucking ass. Like, if the James Hardin thing doesn't work out, I will be shocked at all if he requests a trade. That's a good answer. That's a good answer. too.

Yeah. If something like that was to happen, Philly fans would have their heart broken, bro. Broken torn into pieces because that man has done nothing but right for that organization, bro. Yeah, he's done his best, but at a certain point, how much can you really take in your position? Yeah.

This is a banker series, Isaac. This is going to pop. I know this is going to pop. That's funny. I guess you're going with these hot takes. We've got a couple more. Yeah. 60S.H says that Yokic is a top five.

Passer of all time? That's a W take? I would say this is a W take. I'm not saying on my test, but it's a W take. At first, I want to say L take because there's so many good passers. But if you think about it, you can reasonably say that Yokic is the best passion in NBA today. And if that's the case, you're saying he's a better passer on LeBron James, who's clearly a top five passer. So he's obviously in these conversations.

People just don't want to say it already because there has been enough time. But he's going to be up there. Yeah, I think if you take the best passer of every era, and you kind of go if you start in the 80s which is kind of like when we start to recognize basketball as being like a real thing and you go like 80s 90s 2010 80s 80s 20s you take the best passer of each era yokech is for sure up there and so yeah I'm I'm gonna say it's a W take because I think I think he might be he might he might be the pastor of like of this of this you know decade so that generation Pete and for Anybody who tries to refute this take and act like it's disgusting. I'm just going to say this. He was a two-time MVP for a reason, bro. And that's it.

One of the best offensive players of all time. I'm already getting ready to say it. People hate when I say that, but I don't care. Because it sounds ugly. They're like, really? You know what I'm saying? People hate yokes because he's not stylish. Yeah, like bro used to be built like Patrick Starr, so they're not used to that.

He's still built like that. He's not built like Fred Flintstone. That's funny. All right, we got one more hot take. King Tomeader says that Trey Young will be a top five player in the NBA within the next two years. El Tate. This is a major dust. Oh, my gosh.

Why is it L take? Because he can't play defense at all. Yeah, you kind of have to be at least a decent defender or at least passable to be in the top five, I think. There's so many good players. Do you not think he can grow? My thing about Treying is that, yo, as long as he can be an irritant defensively, he doesn't need to be solid. He doesn't need to be good or wrong. Yeah, something like that, bro.

He doesn't really a great defender. because he's too important to the team we can't get thrown out or get too many texts or anything like that. But just be annoying. Be a fucking rodent, a menace out there once in a while.

That's all I need, bro. And I think he has that potential to be top five in the NBA one. Bro, being annoying doesn't mean anything. We need him to be an impactful defender that makes his team better on that end that he's never going to be that. Nah, bro.

Nah, disagree. I don't care if he makes Steph Curry throw his mouthpiece. He's not a good defender. He's never going to be. Yeah, and that's okay. That's okay. He's still going to be fucking bringing the NBA and he's going to,

and when he wins. his final MVP, I'm literally going to rub it in all y'all faces. Okay, let's get some more. Listen, he's going to, I think he'll win an MVP one day. I agree on that, but he's still probably not going to be a top five player. He's not going to ever be better than Janus or Yokic or him. Simply because of his size, that's all. I get it.

Or probably not Zion. Y'all hate short people. I get it. Do you not know our heights? Like, I know. Like, I ride. I ride and die for these short players. Like, he's just, how tall are you?

I'm fine. Five, six. Oh, you, Donovan? I'm five seven, five seven and a half, maybe. On a half, maybe. And y'all five six or five seven, the short kings and y'all, like, hating on the best short king in the NBA right now. Listen, I wouldn't be saying I'm a top five player in the NBA either. Yeah.

Come on now. All right. Let's do a classic TikTok segment, underrated or overrated. Let's get in. Hold on. Is Ben Simmons' underrated, overrated, or properly rated? Wait, give me a second. Uh, I need to charge my laptop real quick.

And I was tripping right now. Okay, there we go. You all good? Yay. I believe that in there. Target. Good job. Is Ben Simmons underrated, overrated, or properly rated?

He's underrated right now. He's got to be underrated. Yeah, bro. After the way the entire world hated on his neck, do you know how many rap lines, rap lyrics, Ben Simmons has been involved with, bro? They say, you're not a shooter. Ben Simmons. Oh my God, he's underrated, bro. They act like he's fucking

who's a trash-ass NBA? They act like he's Andre Roberson, bro. That's terrible. Facts. People hate him so much and just act like he's this brittle bitch with no backbone, but they forget he's one of the most versatile defenders in the NBA, a fantastic passer, he can finish, he's a great player. Yeah, exactly.

Ridiculous hate, he's got in hand. That's so funny. It's just like, yeah, he's just not, he's just not a likable guy. He's not a likable figure. And especially, like, when you see him on the bench with the sunglasses on and, you know, the bright out. Dripped out. Exactly. And it's like, bro, come on.

It's not his quality of drip. Leave alone. You got to act like you care. And he just doesn't look like he does. She's just quiet. That's it. He's also soft. What about Jason Tatum?

Properly rated? Properly rated. Yeah, a lot of people have accepted the fact that this dude is a top 10 player and will soon be if he's not all right. He's not definitely a top seven player already. but he'll soon be a top seven player in the NBA and people don't understand that he's the league. Yeah, I think he was teetering towards overrated, but then after the finals loss,

people love to be like, Jalen Brown was better, Tatum actually sucks, so he's properly rated. There's a good amount of haters and overzealous lovers. Yeah. Yeah, that's fair. What about Kyrie Irving? Ooh, now this is super tough because this man don't be playing games.

I think he's over-hated right now. He's over-hated right now, but still properly rated. Like, everybody knows he's still a great player. people just don't value him for very valid reasons. That's my, that's my exact take. I think when you're talking about Kyrie, like, the risk is never about, like, how is he going to affect my basketball team? Because he's going to make your team better, at least, at least, like, on paper.

The question is always, how many games is he going to play, is all, you know, the third eye open, his comments on Twitter and all that other stuff, him sage in the building, how is that going to affect the locker room? And is that going to be the downfall? Listen, I think that that's like a very, a very real thing to consider. But when you're just talking about playing basketball, I don't think anybody ever doubts how good Kyrie is at basketball. So I'll say you're probably ready.

For sure. I like those. I like those options. The only reason why I said overrated is because just a couple of weeks ago, people were having conversations about this man being a superstar. And someone else was like, oh, no, this man is a superstar. And Damien Lillard is not a superstar. You guys are real stuff.

That conversation is the worst thing Taylor Brooks has ever done. us. Yeah. I love Taylor Rook. She's a great reporter. That is the worst thing she's ever given to NBA Twitter.

I hate that conversation. Yeah, bro. All right. Is Donovan Mitchell underrated, overrated, or properly rated? Properly rated. Maybe a little underrated. I think he's underrated

as fuck right now. That's interesting. Why? People have this image of him in their head. Like, he's the worst defender in the NBA, total ball hog. It's just only one dimensional.

And that's just not true at all. He's an incredibly talented offensive player, and he's not a great defensive player. And he's not great on defense, but he's not this black hole that people were acting like. He wasn't a bad defender during his rookie year whatsoever at all. That was actually one of his strengths coming out of college and also in his rookie year. He just fell off a cliff because, yo, he just simply stopped to give me a damn.

And he learned he fell into a habit of doing simply bad fundamentals and not caring enough. Yeah, he'll definitely be better on defense. Last year was Wake call, I believe. I would say he's properly rated just because of the hall that Utah was able to get back from him. I think Cleveland kind of understood, like, we have to give up a lot to get him, but they're not, I still don't think that what Cleveland gave up for him was like, we're going to mortgage the future and kind of go all in. Obviously, they gave a lot, but it wasn't too much in my eyes, if that makes sense. So I think, I think they, like, they told the line and because of that, I think he's probably, okay, now that, like, the dust is settled. And then one was like, oh, like, that's, that was the price for Donovan Mitchell.

Yeah, that makes sense. And so we're kind of getting back to reality. yeah overall realistically he's probably properly rated but there's just like a really loud sector of haters right now that I think are just ridiculous let's kick it off to his other former teammate what about Rudy Gobert this is so tough bro

it depends on who you ask you just say overrated underrated and perfectly rated and I'll believe you in every single one of those categories then maybe that just means perfectly rated is the answer then because there's people that hate them people that love him too much realistically he's probably in the middle Bingo, correct answer.

Right answer. But I think I'm going to still go underrated just because I think the masses, the quote-unquote casual NBA fans, don't quite value just how amazing his defensively because most people don't value defense as much to do his offense when in reality he is literally one of the most impactful players in the league, top 20 or so. Why you say that at the same time, bro, I know you all saw that bio or Twitter clip of this man posting up Dennis Schroeder and him just doing some nasty assy-assie-up

like he's Kobe. When you see things like that, bro, He'd just be getting trash. He's literally always getting caught on the wrong end of a highlight. Just eight hours ago today! Lucas had a one-legged floater from the three-point line and cast it in his face. And it was contested and it was perfect, bro. Hey, he posterized Luca this morning.

What about that? You're 7-3. That's what you're supposed to do. Yeah. He can't win. You're 7-3, you're supposed to turn around and just put the ball in the basket. Okay, Shaq. If you have...

Come on now. That's that's listen that's not just like a shack that's any level of basketball if you are bigger Shack has a stupid taste on every big man every big man is like you just got to be aggressive If you're bigger and taller than what's the point of being bigger and taller than everybody if you're not going to use it like that if you're just going to stand out If you if you're just going to stand out there and that's that's your whole game like you you you need to be able to to develop that and it's like all right all right It's so annoying and so that's what I'm saying like for Rudy take put put me on this I guess I'll call Rudy overrated Because I can't stand. Because he'd be doing stuff like that.

Because he'd be getting locked up by Dennis Schroeder. All right, right, right. That's crazy. Dennis Grover would be giving that man in Alcatraz. What about Pascal Seacom? Underrated just because he plays in Canada. And nobody really watches him on a nightly basis. Yeah, bro.

I think he made the L.N. A third team this past year. And a lot of people were, like, raising question marks. And that is crazy that they would suggest that. And I understand this man missed a handful of games. But when he was back in full effect, he improved on his game. A lot of people still mean him once in a while because, you know what I'm saying? His go-to spin move or whatever.

But I still think, regardless of all that, very underrated, not very underrated, but he's underrated in the NBA. Yeah, I agree. Is James Harden underrated, overrated, or properly rated? Once again, it depends on who you're asking. I think if I asked you and heard your response, I would say that he's overrated. And I think that if you asked me and you heard my response,

you would say that he's underrated. So I guess we're back and properly rated. Nah, James Hart's underrated this fuck right now. People are judging him at his lowest at the worst case scenario for him and assuming there's never going to be anything on a lot, they're assuming there's going to be no light at the end of the tunnel.

And I just have to assume there's going to be some sort of a bounce back this year. Yeah, exactly. I agree with you, bro. that's what you thought last year though no I didn't right everyone knew right I mean everybody

everybody's okay sort of yeah he he gets it he everyone's like listen he gets the offseason to recover from from the hamstring and he comes out in Brooklyn and he's still not looking like exactly the same he forces his his way to Philly has two games against the Knicks and everyone's like oh wow he's back and then the rest and then the rest of the season he kind of regress his back to where he was yeah but we found out

we realized that that type of injury he had wasn't one that just heals over the span of three months it was a long long-term injury. The same thing that was aliening Chris Paul when he looked watch for a year. So we did think that, but then we found out that's not realistic. And now is a chance we can actually recover and be healthy. Hopefully. I don't know. I don't trust James Hardin at all. I don't think this is going to be like his comeback year or anything. He'll probably still be solid, but I don't think we're getting anywhere close to like a high level all-star performance from James Hardin this year. We'll see. I have hope. I don't think he's going to be the James

turn of old but he's for sure going to be better we got one more segment before I get out of here and I'm going to quiz y'all on where certain NBA players went to college. I don't know how good y'all are with this. I don't pay a ton of I don't pay a ton of attention to college basketball so I would get dusted in this but let's see how y'all do depends on how old there let's go there's a mixture in there so we'll see

which college did these NBA players go to? Jordan Poole. He went to Michigan Yes sir, Michigan. Okay, that one was a little too easy. What about Pascal Seacom? New Mexico. New Mexico State?

New Mexico State. Donovan got it. What the fuck, man? I got that. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. He paused, he was waiting for me to say something. He was waiting for me to say something. I'm going to let you say something first now.

Go. What about can Tavia's call well Pope? Oh, yeah, that's, that's, that's, wait, Casey, where you go? I don't know this one. I don't know this one. Bam, yeah, bro, he's from 20. He was drafted in 2012, 2011. I don't know, bro.

I didn't watch that. Y'all are fucking failures. Georgia. Fuck! Oh my God, my God, I'm bro, Georgia. God, David, I should have known. What the fuck? He's a failure.

God damn. That's so embarrassing. This man, grew up watching Georgia basketball. Nah, I ain't grow up watching fucking Georgia Bulldog basketball, bro. God damn. I should have known that, though. Let me say an intro again.

because to do a better one, give you another peek behind the curtain. Let me know where these NBA players went to college. I'm going to quiz you on where these NBA players went to college and see who gets more right. And that's what we're going to use. What about Kyle Lowry? Oh, he went to Villanova. Yeah, that's true. He went to Villanova.

That's true. You got to be quicker. Yeah, I ain't getting that. It told me too long to think. You got that one? Last one. Donovan Mitchell. Louisville

Louisville fuck hey hey hey hey this I told you this is my domain oh whoa whoa this is my game now all right

all right let's go next one I got you we have a winner that's all of them you lost god damn you get this wrong you get this wrong

hey that that new Mexico one was truly bullshit though that was truly bullshit yeah you ain't we gotta say the whole name hey what do you want

for me he said the right college you didn't oh my god this shit spreeged for me though it's not my fault

you didn't say the right words oh my gosh that's funny I think I think I'll show you I was on talk about before we get out of here I think

listen I think we're good it's crazy the league is coming back sooner than I think a lot of us expected it's like three weeks until training camp yeah it's mad wild

everything's pulling up really really fast I'm just excited for the season to come back I'm really sure yeah I can't wait everything we've been doing so far the past couple months

with the content this channel has been in the off season and we've been going pretty fast so it's super exciting to think about what this channel's going to look like once you get the actual season and have substantive shit to talk about.

Yeah, exactly, bro. I'm super ready also for us to go ahead and go through our podcast and journey and become the podcast rookie of the year of the entirety of YouTube. And bro, we don't keep on going crazy. That's the go, bro. For sure. Yeah. If y'all listen to the end of the first episode, really appreciate it.

I want you all to go ahead and obviously drop us subscribe. Follow us on TikTok. Follow us on Instagram. Go ahead and download on Apple Podcast, Spotify. all that shit. I guess we're out of here. See you.