The Deep 3 Podcast - The Celtics Make The NBA Finals, Luka Owns Minnesota, & More! | TD3 Live

Episode Date: May 29, 2024

Support the stream: https://streamlabs.com/thedeep3pod Shoutout to Coinbase! Use promo code "20DEEP3" and sign up for a new Coinbase account to get $20 of free Bitcoin after you make your first trade! Today we react to all the latest NBA news! Check out the TD3 merch: https://the-deep-3-shop.fourthwall.com/ Join the TD3 discord!: https://discord.gg/RUkjpMPp7E Listen on Spotify!: https://open.spotify.com/show/3elbbqVumwqz8wlIdknsLW Listen on Apple Podcasts!: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-deep-3-podcast/id1657940794 Follow us on TikTok!: https://www.tiktok.com/@thedeepthree Follow us on Instagram!: https://www.instagram.com/thedeep3podcast/ Isaac's twitter: https://twitter.com/byisaacg Muhamed's twitter: https://twitter.com/Mojo99_ Donnavan's twitter: https://twitter.com/Dsmoot3D Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

How are you feeling? As you can see, Mo's not here. Where are the real eater's at? Someone's got to say it. Exactly. Sorry, right? Everyone's out here saying that we were late. If you were here before, we were late because we were putting Zeke in time out,

but that's all good now. All right, we're here. Everything's good. What's going on? So, man. How are y'all doing? Everybody's spamming the chat lately. I get it.

I get it. We were actually 30 seconds late this time, so I respect it. You guys. You guys that went on. As you see, we were late because Mo's not here. here. So we had to go ahead and put his substitution in. As you guys see, he's right here. How do y'all feel about this guy? Someone's saying the cranium is crazy already. I respect it. I need more to call in. I need more to call in like a, like a radio show.

We had two donations off the bat. Waukeen 37 donated $20. He said, been here since almost a start. It's amazing to see how far you guys have come. Now we've been doing interviews. Props to you guys. Make the crowning just look real good. Appreciate you guys, man. Appreciate you. We'll talk about the interviews later. We'll get into that and we get into everything else. It was going to be interesting to recap that. Another donation. Zubdu, tip $32.

He said, rest in peace, Bill Walton, question mark. On the white. The question mark, RIP, Bill Walton. It's a tragic day. Yeah, there's no need for a question mark. That's kind of crazy. It's all good. RIP.

He's like, how do we feel about him? Pro, very pro, Bill Walton at all times. His commentary was nothing, if not. unique and additive to the game. I'll say that. There we go. Real quick, as you guys see about these mic flags on, got to pay some bills real quick. So I want to shout out Coinbase, our newest sponsor to the show. Everybody know right now, if you sign up with promo code 20D3 for a new account, you'll get $20 for a free Bitcoin when you make your first trade. Run over there, do that. Put on for the show. Yeah, man. Let's get it. We have news docs I get to today, our new

stories. You see, we don't have Mo. It's a two-man game today. Like, you know, if you're a real day won the first couple weeks of the show that's what the pop was called. Running back to that today. Let's go. Where are we starting? Where we started? We're going to start off with

Rudy-Goberer discourse, per usual. They went outside, and every single person in sports media feels like he needs to talk about how he's a fraud. Gubernatorina said, I don't need you to be a great helpside defender. The trophy says defensive player

of the year, not helpside defender. That means all-inclusive, bitch. To take you out of the game, dog, you should have to give your trophies back. Listen, we were on vacation this weekend, and it didn't escape us, right? The Rudy-Gabert discourse got to us, even when we were out of the country. If you guys saw on Twitter, Isaac and I were having a heated debate. And I think that these guys are going too far, particularly Gilbert, just because of his history, right?

We know his game. but I still stand pat that I do not think that it is unreasonable to ask this of Rudy to ask that like hey if you are going to be you know this four-time DPOY he's over the last seven years he hasn't been outside of the top three voting in DPOY it's been largely considered he's the top three defensive player in the league at all times throughout his career and it's not a great look it's just not a great look for Rudy Gobert to come out here

to be benched right to be down 3-0 to have one of the game winners hit on you granted it's Luca but like come on man listen the visuals say everything I think that you motherfuckers don't live in reality the visuals say something

the fact that every time he touches the bench in this series the defense goes to shit and they get blown out and run out the court by everybody else that says a whole a lot more. I understand I need to slander him. He's not a perfect player. I think we can mock him for being atrocious and worth this offensively all we want. I personally come to the realization that that's more impactful than I might have once thought. I might have given him passes in the past for will hate his offensively. And now I'm starting to see that

maybe is a big issue in playoff settings. But defensively, we got to leave this shit in the past, man. His defense is impactful. It is great. DPOY doesn't mean unstoppable force defensively that can stop everything ever. No DPOY Big Man is stopping Luca Donchish one-on-one on the perimeter. That's not how this game works. A lot of this is nonsense, I think. I understand. And I said this after the moment, right?

Because I do agree with you. I'm going to clown Rudy regardless, right? I'm going to make the jokes. Just because, like, again, duh, it's like, it's Rudy Gaubert. It's just what we do, right? Game is the game. But the Timberos did set him up for failure. Like, you just can't, you can't leave Rudy Gaubera out on an island against

Luca Donchage, when it's so very clear that Luca hates him and he's going to do everything. You know, big doves, also quick side note, big dubs like, nah, Don's playoff picks have been terrible. A hundred percent. I have been awful. I've been so bad these playoffs. And I have been, the last week, I've been like, okay, like, listen, the start of next season, we're not playing fair.

All right, I'm getting into a lab. I'm doing work. I think I'm honestly going to change. change up a little bit of how I like look at the game because I I found some holes in my game and so I think I think I have some adjustments that I can make but yeah no man like the the Rudy stuff is just no you for you to be that level of defender you know how even whenever guys win MVP and they still go back and add something to their game yeah it's like defensively like you're winning all these deep hires I need you to add more to your defensive

back i need you to i need you to to take like more and more steps and it's just not happening yeah i mean i understand what you're saying is like cool it's nice to want that but like it's just not reality you know people don't just transform and his limitations are his limitations he wins d p o i and also we treat four-time d p o why like it's additive like it makes it like you should get better and better when it's a regular season award he was on the best defense in the league anchored that he was d p oi It's not really a one-to-one correlation of he's this level of defender. He's not every four-time D.P.O.I should be this good and this impactful. It's, we're making narratives that are fun to talk about and we treat them like their reality.

But we do this with, I think, I think you kind of treat D.P.O.I. like that, just because everything else in the NBA is so, like, offensively skewed. So, like, MVP, like, Rudy Gobert would never be MVP, right? whoever you think that the best defensive player in the in the league is they are if they are one-sided they're never going to be MVP whereas we've seen offensive players who are not good at defense win MVP right like you've seen the other side be rewarded and be told like you are impactful to this certain level and so that's why dpoI is like yes if you are if you have this award you are going to be held to this crazy standard because it's the only thing that we have to look at but for before rudy i do think that like everything that everybody says is true

everything that like everything that all like the you know nerds for you know for lack of a better term say where they're like he's one of you know the best defenders of all that da da da and then the other side what's up oh my bad let me cut you off some of the chas said isa hate and ass is going to have to acknowledge lucca owning the tea wolves if you think i'm a Luca or a Mavs hater, you are not paying attention. Well, we'll get to that. We'll get to that. Listen, Donovan was talking about his predictions are always wrong.

We're going to talk about that. I was wrong as shit about this. We're going to talk about that at length. Y'all hold on. Once we get through the news stories, we are going to go deep into this series and where we went motherfucking wrong. We were all wrong. Because all of us, Mo2, like, we all picked Wolves and Six.

And I think I was the strongest on it. Because after that, OKC series, I guess, honestly, let's do it. Let's just transition over real quick. Okay, we'll come back to the news stories We have a lot to talk about I want to talk specifically, I'll let you go first I want to talk about where I went wrong And why I meant wrong

Because it pisses me off Because I did the dumbest thing ever I didn't stick to my gut at all You go from what you think Okay, there's several things One, I trusted in Carinthe Towns for too long Two, I underestimated the things that I saw

in the regular season and people's problems are still their problems at the same time at the same time like I thought that what I was seeing in the regular season on Dallas's perspective was actually the truth

so like PJ Washington has been you know know low 30% three point shooter the entire year except for the series against the thunder and i've been banking on him going back to doing what he's doing and he just keeps hitting timely shot after time we shot and so i thought that that was going to regress it has not i thought that car anthony towns and anthony edwards had taken a step forward when it came to late game execution because of what we saw um with them and the nuggets like cat was coming in flying in right getting these put back dunks i was like oh wow like maybe

Maybe they've turned a corner, right? They haven't. And you just see the difference in execution when you have two actual killers with Luca and Kyrie and then Anthony Edwards, who still has a level to go playmaking, turning the ball over in late game situations. And then Carl Anthony Towns, who's just, you know, jacking up bad shots after bad shots when the five-minute mark hits. And that's the biggest place that I've gone wrong.

Yeah. Okay, let me read off some donnoes real quick and then I'll get into my thoughts. Cucumber tip $10. He said, been watching for a year now, guys, and the progress you've made in sports media, great in your reason of the combine. Appreciate your cucumber. Matthew, tip $50.

He said, Luca and Kyrie are going to terrorize the Celtics. Luca hates KP, and Kyrie hates Boston. The two of them are going to combine for 100 points for game. My guy, I hope you're right. I'm rooting for the Mabs in that series, if that's going to be the finals. And cucumber tipped another $10.

He said, why is Moe so sexy today? He woke up feeling dangerous. What can I say? I shout out to. Zubdu for tipping another $8. He said, didn't mean to put the question mark after Bill Walton. All good. Elena tip $3.

What happened to Mo? He's right there. Come on. And Joaquin tip $7. He said, no, the rats don't got to Mo. He's right there. What are y'all talking about? God.

Yeah, man. Okay. So this series, we came in last week and we picked the Timberwolves. My main reason was, in the past two playoff series, Luca didn't look 100%. And the reason they were able to beat OKC was by beating the Thunder with size, right? They out muscled them down low.

PG-Washington played a big difference on both sides of the ball. Derek Clive played a big difference both sides of the ball. And they won with size. And I was like, one, they don't have the size advantage over the Minnesota Timberwolves. Two, I don't know what version of Luca we're getting and what version of Kyrie were getting because Kyrie was great in the first round

and really mediocre in the second round from a scoring perspective. I was thinking, what's that going to look like against Minnesota and their elite defense with their elite primitive defenders. and that's also coming off of what you said Donovan Carl Anthony Towns and Anthony Edwards played amazing in the second round I was wrong about them because I doubted them from the start and they proved me wrong so I was like let me not

let me give them the credit they think I feel like they've earned right we feel like they've earned a right to say they can do this again they fucking couldn't we give the two hundred credit but also the Dallas Mavericks defense is legit every series somebody on the other side of the ball whether it be James Hardin Paul George J-dub whoever it is plays badly, and everyone's like, oh, if so-and-so would have shot better, the Mazz

would have lost. The Mazz defense is just amazing, and they could shut down driving lanes, and you're not getting to the rim against them. You have to beat them with jump shooting. You have to beat them with every way you don't want to win with. Anthony Edwards is the newest victim. They're running through and slaughtering everybody. And also, Luca Dodgers looks healthy, and he is the best player on the court every

night, and Kyrie's been the second best player on the court every night. And I had a tweet, let me find it, where I was talking about a lot of playoff series come down to a lot of match-up stuff, a lot of, you know, X's and O's. You guys have a lot of nuance when talking about them. But sometimes the other players, the other team stars, just play a whole lot better than your stars, and they are the deciding factor. And that's what we're seeing here. The two top guys on Dallas are simply better.

It's shocking, but not shocking. Just because, like, it's not shocking in the sense that we've been saying that Luca just needed a little bit more help around him and whenever the time comes he's going to show up and like the conversations around Luca being the you know the new version of James Hardin the main pushback on that is

actually he gets better in the playoffs whereas James Hardin disappears like if you James Hardin had elevated he would have been a completely different player right in terms of like his stature in where he ranked in the league would have been much better.

So, Luca, we've known that. But the night and dayness of the T-Wolves and for them to be down 20 in a game seven on the road against the defending champs, and they do everything they need to do to win. And now you go down-02 at home whenever the Mavs don't shoot well. You guys have bad turnovers at the end of games. You guys don't seem to be able to find your race. them offensively it's just like yo we just like this was a week ago like literally a week ago

that we were all singing singing your praises and things just changed so quickly i think the the speed in which it happened and the speed in which it happened and in which they went down oh three it's wild and i but i also don't think that it's shocking because at the end of the day like we do this to ourselves you know we we we always do this somebody somebody has a very good series a nice seven to ten game stretch in the regular season and we're like hey i don't know like are they are they rising up the the rankings right now are they are they number one are they next are they this are they that and we fell for it yeah i don't blame ourselves i don't blame us though i'm sure you got no better at some extent two one luka was not healthy lucca was not playing this

well. In the last series, he averaged 24 points, 10 rebounds, 8 assists, 44% from the field. That's good, really good stats, but Luca average is 34 in the regular season, you know? Like, he was not playing to Luca standards, and in this series, he went off to 32 points for game. He has looked much more like regular Luca. And I don't really feel bad about questioning if his health's going to turn around. Apparently it doesn't matter. He's playing well, but like, I didn't expect that. And yeah, I guess we gave Anthony Edwards and cross town's credit because before that we had not given them credit right we've been quick to discount them and they had proved us wrong so we're going to okay let's assume they continue to do this

i don't really feel bad about that we ended up being wrong but i'll do that i'll do that every time you know when a plane plays a certain way and makes an amazing accomplishment i don't feel crazy reacting to that and changing how i view them going forward yeah i i think the only thing that i feel kind of like weird about is that all year long I've had the main question and I and had the number one question that I've had about the Tim Wolves has been are they going to be able to execute down the stretch of games because their offense exactly exactly you know you know what I'm saying like their offense throughout the throughout the season was bad and they were one of the worst clutch teams um in terms of like efficiency there were 24th in clutch offense in the regular

season. It's just not, it's just not good. And we saw them play a team that both you and I don't think is that good in the Phoenix Suns and they swept them. And then like, they do the thing where they beat, they beat the nuggets. And we let, we let three games, honestly, two games fool us into thinking that they were going to come into the series against the Mabbs and everything was going to be solved because they were down three, two. And, and so at that point, We were all like, okay, like Denver did it, right? It was a nice story for Minnesota, whatever, but we flipped the script. That's the thing.

We flipped the script. That's the thing. I picked Denver to win last series, and I picked a lot of teams to beat the Timberwolves because I didn't believe in the late game offense. But they proved to me last series that they can win despite the late game offense with defense and doing whatever needed. They didn't win against the Nuggets because their late game offense suddenly got good. It was because their defense clamped the Nuggets the fuck down,

and they couldn't outscore them like we know the Nugget to be able to do normally. I made the mistake of thinking they can defend. everybody that way. And to make everybody come down to their level. That's not the case. They had the biggest slow down Nicole Yokic and they got lucky that Jamal Murray and Michael Poor Jr. forgot to shoot a lot of those games. They don't have the personnel to shut down Luca Donch's and Kyrie the same way. That was the biggest difference is what I thought Yolkutche would do them in the late game situation, Luca Donchus is doing it. He is to fill the prophecy that thought Yolk would do. Yeah. And also, it hasn't stepped up to the same level.

It felt like it felt like in the last series when there neat, when there was a play that needed to be made towards the end of games, Andy Edwards was going to make it. Even in Game 7, where he's not shooting particularly well, I still felt like he played a solid all-around game. And he was still very impactful. And you just have to be, you have to be on your absolute best A game in order to get these games.

And it's so similar to what happened. Like everything that's happening in the West, it's just high level version of the subjects and the Pacers where the Pacers are in control of these games you like you know that they are right there and they have as good of a chance as anybody to win these games but a couple of plays go here and there you you you don't execute you have costly turnovers late in the game and now instead of being up 3-1 where you know like the Pacers had three games in this series where they had a win percent percentage of 90% at a certain time.

Yeah. Instead of being up three, one, now you're swept, then your season's done, and it's because you're not making the play at the right time. Another big difference is the Nuggets have a solid defense. It isn't necessarily well made to stop Anthony Edwards. They didn't have perimeter defenders that can stick with him. And obviously, Yokich isn't the best room defender. The Dallas Mavericks defense, all playoffs, has been putting on a master class of game

planning. We all are, that also, that dunk was nuts. We just saw it. Jesus. But we like to criticize Jason Kidd a lot because on the regular season, that guy stinks very often. And Mazz fans will be the first ones that let you know. He is a playoff riser. He has been putting on amazing defensive game plans. He is the 2023 Jamal Murray of head coaches right now. I was just about to say that. He's cutting off the driving lanes. Anthony Edwards can't do anything. He can't get to the rim without two guys on him. He can't do anything comfortably. And it's not just that he's playing bad. The Mavs are forcing him to play bad. They are locking him down, but fantastic game plan, have the personnel to stop him.

It's, you know, it's a game of matchups, and we saw the Timberles meet the Nuggets and said they're good enough to beat anybody. It is, they're quality enough, but some matchups are harder than others, and it comes down to really small things, and in this case, the difference of these playmaking guards is the difference of this matchup. Yeah, and another thing is like, Ant has had to work so hard just to get in position to score, right? Down to, down the stretch of game three, there was like three, four minutes, where,

and wasn't even touching the ball, right? It was just going, it was going through Conley. Dallas was doing a good job, not letting Ann get comfortable, not letting him get the ball. And then that's when you end up with Mike Connolly taking threes at the end of the shot clock. You end up with Carl. Moes in the chat.

He put a bunch of question marks. What? Where's he at? Moe drop question marks in the chat. What's up, Mo? I don't know why you're not talking. Speak up, bro. Someone said it's Mo deceased.

All right. IP, man. No one really pisses me off. FaceTime me right now, Moe. FaceTime me right now. You know what really pisses me off? We did our power rings before the playoffs started, right?

I ranked the Nuggets 1, the Celtics 2, the clear two best teams in the league to me in the regular season. At three, I put the Dallas Mavericks. I put the Timberwolves five, I think.

So from the jump, I thought the Mavs were better, but for all the reasons I explained, I overthought it before the series start and picked the Timberwolves out of, sure, you can call a recency bias,

I guess. I'm just so bad I predicted the series because I overthink the fuck out of it. From the jump, I told you guys two months ago, I think the Mavs were better, but I didn't stand on it. And you know what makes it worse? A day and a half before our stream last time where I predicted the Timberwolves would win, I tweeted this. I said, I want Luca to destroy them in a way so harsh it could only be described as a biblical tragedy. So not only did I think they were better a couple months ago, I wanted the Mavs to win, but I convinced myself that the Timberwolves would do it,

and I tried to be unbiased and remove the fact that I want Mavs to win, because I want Luca to win a chip. I tried to remove that and think past that and I try to big brain it. And I was like, oh, but the Timberwolves have this and this. More of the story. I need to just stick to my gut what I think initially. See, it might be the opposite for me. Whatever, whatever I think, more.

Yeah, whatever I think I just have to, you know, think the opposite. That's, that's where it's been at for me. this off season. Someone said Isaac can't stand on business. Facts. I was overthinking. False at the same time. Because, again, I'm assuming that the Mavs are going to, you know, make the finals. Celtics are already there.

I think I'm going to die with the ship. I've bet I've been against the Mavs for two straight series now because I legitimately thought that the number one seed and the best defense in the league would be able to slow them down. Now we're going to have to get a combination of both. to knock off Dallas and I think that I'm going to be there and I think I'm going to be praying on their downfall and it hurts to say Lauren Kha but I think I'm going for the Boston Celtics oh you're a sicko you're sicko no I okay well first of all Lauren Koss at Isaac writing

Luca fan fictions facts I wrote a Luca fan fiction that got 6,000 likes on Twitter and I still didn't pick them I'm a fucking bozo I'm an idiot but yeah you said um you're gonna go stick with it and ride with it and pick the Celtics, I'm doing the opposite. I am no longer trying to think rationally in this playoff setting. I'm going with my fandom, and I want Lupu Donchard to win a championship

so fucking badly. I'm picking the Mads no matter what. Yeah. Also, I picked the Celtics at the beginning of the year to win the championship. As bad as every prediction that I have made this season has been,

I need one thing to be right. No, you read earlier. You called it early that they would be the best team. When I was team, Bucks have a good chance to being just as good. I believe in the Damien Loid

and Yonis thing. From the jump, you were team Celtics. So you got that right, at least. Yeah. So I said, Isaac is a Celtics hater.

Y'all overblow the fuck in that. I really don't give a shit about the Celtics. Mo is a Celtics hater. And so was Donovan. I am... I do. I don't like them,

but I don't hate them. I'm not like a normal Lakers fan that's like, fuck the Celtics. Y'all overblow the hell out of it. We're losing recipes. I need you to hate them. I need you to hate them.

Truthfully, I don't got a hating bone in my body. Cap. Come on. Mo tipped $1. Mo said, Breaking news. TD3 host Isaac

will be suspended for three days from all podcasting activities due to his tomfoolery in today's live stream per woe. First of all,

I know how much money you make and you tipped us $1? Wow. Unbelievable. Unbelievable. And shout out to Benjamin Ferrari

for tipping $1. He's a conducting experiment with our friends from school. Do y'all perform warm or cold? cold pizza. And if you had, have it cold, would you reheat it? I mean, everybody prefers warm, but cold is also good. But like, nobody's in a pick cold primarily, right? Yeah. No, no, no, no, no.

But like, but cold pizza does hit. I actually had cold pizza yesterday. I went over to my parents' place and they had like some little seasons left over. Little Caesar's cold is actually really bad. I do not, I do not like that. Listen, when it's hot and is ready, it's underrated. Oh, no. Listen, it hits. It, it hits. What's that tweet? It's a little user hits and there's not a bitch in your ear telling you it's trash? Facts. Well, you don't got a hater around you. That shit is good.

Oh, my goodness. Gums macking. Dude. Delish. Dripping all over my beard. Fucking red sauce. Have you had the little new, the new stuff from Little Seasers, like the small ones? No, they don't got them out here when I moved.

I haven't had it since I was in Texas. Everybody's been saying that they're like, that's kind of like that. Oh, really? Like a lot. What else? learned from this Timberwolves. We talked at depth about why we were wrong and why we should have picked the Mavs and where we went wrong from picking

the Timberwolves. What are you seeing in this series? Because it's easy to say that Luca and Kyrie have been the difference. What else has gone wrong for the Timberwolves? Listen, it's, honestly, it's the same problem that we kind of thought before, and they've had this amazing

run. In two days. honestly maybe not even in two days in about 16 hours we're going to start making Carr Anthony Towns trades I don't

I don't think that they can win I don't think that Carr Anthony Towns is going to be able to be on this team if they have a championship ceiling here's a thing I know what you mean

I don't disagree but or reach the championship ceiling because obviously like you know They're the conference fighters. They can do all that. Yeah, yeah.

The cat has proven this to me this year, despite this series, that he is good enough to make it work to some level that they can compete, right? They beat the Nuggets end of the day. They are a team good enough to make a championship and potentially win it. You just so are the Mavs and some team has to lose, right? That doesn't necessarily mean that the Timberwolves are unworthy of where they're at or need to make a move or something. Yeah.

But I do also think that there's no other real path to getting better for them, and they have an Osread. now as we can start pretty much the same formula and there might be a better ceiling if you can get a call of whoever you want some brand ring room type

whoever may be maybe an ability point guard whoever it is available on the market if you can get that player in exchange for Kat and then have Nasri step into his role that might be the only way they can make a substantial enough change that gives them a higher ceiling they have now

yeah I think it's I don't know man I also don't think they have to though I think they deserve time, I think. Atkinson keep getting better. This isn't going to be the only time they're a great team. Like, I think they, if they want to keep it together, I think they deserve more time. I understand that, but I also think that, like, Kat is in a position where you are asking,

this is working and it has worked for two reasons, because Anthony Edwards has turned into Michael Jordan. And also because Car Anthony Towns has been able to play at, like, potential level. The idealized version of Carr Anthony Towns is what we saw over the first two rounds. And I think that just for him, it's a lot to ask for him to play as the idealized version for two months straight with nothing. And even in there, he's still giving you classic Carinthe Towns games where you're getting the terrible fouls.

You're getting the foul trouble stuff. You're getting bad shot selection down the stretch of games. and it may be, maybe you get somebody who on paper isn't as talented, but it may be addition by subtraction. I think that that's something that they might have to think about when we're talking about what this team is going to look like next year. And while you don't have to make a move, the team is going to get really expensive.

And like you said, they have Nas Reid. And you have a very, very optimal cat replacement right there on a cheaper contract. So you have, if just like from just from a team building perspective, the best move and the best asset that you have is probably Carl Anthony Towns. And it sucks because he really has been good throughout this entire playoffs. But this series kind of shows the limitations of it. And you're going to need Anthony Edwards to be at a certain level to raise him up. And then I think that's also unfair to ask him to be Michael Jordan every year. Yeah, it's unfair to some extent, but he has to keep getting better.

You need your best player to continue to rise when he's 22 years old So it doesn't have to be Michael Jordan But does it got to be Dwayne Wade? Probably You need a player that good To win a championship

So he has to keep getting better I think they give Calais one more year Probably We know the financial situation That's coming up with them So that could force their hand Eventually, we'll see But I'm not at the point

Where I'm saying Like it's time to make big moves I think If they If they do make a move And get ahead of it And are smart enough To look in the future

And they agree with you and see a world, don't see a world where Kat can be in the team and they win, good for them. I'll respect the ballziness to make a move when you don't necessarily have to, but if they decide to stand pat, I won't really criticize them. Like we do some other teams who obviously have to make moves. Yeah. Let me, let me, I'm going to look up real quick, the, the Tim Wolves payroll next year because I just know that it's not, it's not, yeah, it's not, it's not going to be, it's not

going to be pretty. And it's just like, you go down the line, Car, Anthony Towns 24, 25, $49.3, $50 million cap hit. Rudy Gobert, 43, Anthony Edwards, 42, Jada McDaniels, 22. And then Nas Reid and Mike Connolly combined for $22 million. But if your top three, if your top three is making, what's that, $80, $130 million. And two of them, you're, you. you know for a fact you don't trust with three minutes to go to get you any type of like consistent offense that's going to be a problem

and as we've seen in this series specifically having two closers is so valuable at the at the like top end spot so you can live with it with Rudy because of his defense cat not so much. Exactly that's the biggest problem I think it was Matthew Spahnhor

tweeted that that they clearly need a second guy and the second creator and that's that much is clear from the series. But I'm like, they pay Carlton Towns $50 million a fucking year. If Cat can't be that, that's a problem. He has to be able to be that second source of creation on offense, which he is a big man. Is it asking too much of him? Is that is not his game? We'll see. But he has to be a lot better than this. And that's what the problem's come up. He has to at least produce offensively. We know what he has on the defensive end.

We know he's been better this year, but he's not a, you know, impactful defensive stalwart. Stallworth, by any mean? How to say that word, right? But he has to produce offensively or his price tag makes zero sense of this team. He's going into year 10. They are going crazy on Mo's forehead right now on the chat, and it's hilarious. First they said it should be one of the wonders of the world. Someone said Mo's forehead is a sniper's dream. That's crazy.

That's good. Yeah, y'all are hilarious. What do you think about the Mavs? You said you're picking the Celtics still. So, chat, y'all are asking, are somebody said, Sue Jay said in the chat earlier. Is it too much to ask for some Celtics coverage? We'll get there. We'll talk about them. All right. It's not a whole lot of interesting stuff to say, but during the finals, we'll talk about it. Relax. Let's talk about the Mavs now. We're talking about the Mavs. Then we'll

finish our new stories. Then we'll talk about the Eastern Conference Vinals. The Mavs obviously have in most series, which the only series left is the Celtics, they're going to have the best player in the game. Kyrie is playing in a level where he's damn near the second best player in the game. But, you know, Tateon's better, whatever. But they have the star power. They have a truly lead defense. Derek lively has been in incredible. Do you feel strong enough by the supporting cast around those core three that they can really win a championship?

They can win it 100%. I, like, I wouldn't be shocked if they, if they won it. The, even though that I picked the Thunder, I understood if you wanted to pick Dallas just because at the end of the day, they have the best player in the series. And the same way that I've looked at. this entire series with uh with shout out derrick slaughter i see you derrick what you say so may i see um essentially exactly shout out shout out darry slaughter keep on good job Derek uh the same way that i was looking at at minnesota and i was like i saw you in the regular season be fraudulent

down the stretch of games i shouldn't have trusted you it's kind of the same thing that i'm doing with boston where i've seen you for years be fraudulent down the stretch of games and here i am trusting you again so if so if Dallas if Dallas does if they do win and they do out-execute them right and like Luca's ability to score and play make in in crunch time and and the Celtic stuff doesn't end up happening then I can see it do you order to know my biggest fucking problem with you right now my flexing flash another ad I don't want to flash you are making me defend the Boston Celtics you are making me be pro the pro self this person on this pod and the fact that you make me say good things about the Celtics

hurts my heart. Why? What did I say? The fact that we called it fraudulent, I'm like, dude, they win every game which is just tighter than you wanted to.

They don't lose. We were so dramatic about them. And I would like to hit on the Celtics a little bit, but you don't let me. They, they, throughout these playoffs,

yes, they have won, which is a good development over, over what they have been in previous years. Like in previous years, the Heat series,

and the Cav series probably go six and this series probably goes five. The fact that they were able to close out the Pacers in four, I have actually very, like, proud. And I think it kind of makes me feel a little bit better going into the series. But, like, I've seen your movies.

I know, I know what you're about. And during the regular season, I also said this, where statistically, in the clutch, they are really good. The numbers say that they're good. this is a pure eye test in just how I feel about watching the Celtics and whenever and if it was a tie game with three minutes to go and Luca's on the floor and Tatum's on the floor who do I feel is going to like actually get the last bucket and get better offense down the stretch of that game I kind of feel like Luca is going to do it so that really does scare me even though that I'm picking Boston I just think that especially if KP's there Their top six is just so O.P. And the fact that Drew Holiday can be your fourth guy,

if KP's there and Al Horford doesn't have to play 38 minutes a night, they're going to win the finals. They're going to do it. Okay, let's, we'll transition. Let's talk about, let's talk about Celtics versus Pacers, and then we'll get back to the news stories and do a little pseudo's finals preview. First off, though, recent don't knows. Shout out to Jamie Edwards, tipping $10.

He said, click on the stream at 6 a.m. to see that big-ass forehead looking right back at me goddamn. Anyway, missing, Mo is Moe. We don't need a body shame

in the forehead. He is what it is. He was born this way. He can't do anything about it. You're looking at it, and you're looking at it raw, natural. Let him be him.

Somebody say he has a BBL on his forehead. Oh, my God. Shout out Dylan, not Dylan, for tipping $1. He said, my only problem with the maps

winning is seeing Draymond level, revel in Rudy's demise. Yeah, it's a bit tiresome. It's funny. He's going to do what he's going to do, but whatever

walking 36 has tip $2 that one book is probably Mo's life savings god damn you don't have to do them like that Eastern Conference Finals yes let's talk about the Celtics finally because all playoffs for one they've given us nothing of interest to talk about

because everybody they play their star players die at the altar and they play a hampered version of that team once again it happened Tyrese Halliborne didn't play the last two games but nevertheless the Pacers battled they took the title from the Los Angeles Lakers last year

for the closest sweep of all time they fought valiantly some games I should have won but they Celtics snatch a victory from the hands of defeat and they found a way to sweep them how are you feeling about this series and what do you owe your takeaways

I feel like Boston like I said earlier I want to believe that they have turned a corner. The fact that they could grit out the wins in game three and game four means a lot because we are very finicky on the Celtics because everybody has just been waiting for them to win a championship for probably like the last three years. And when they win, it's like, okay, you won by seven, not by ten, what's wrong with you?

When you lose, it's like, ha, how you lose. But if this series was two, two right now, forget three, one. If it was 2-2, if it was 3-1, everybody would be looking at the Celtics and like, ah, here they go again, playing with their food, they're not serious, and not this, they're not that. And they were able to go in and execute and make all the big shots and take advantage of all the opportunities that were in front of them. And I do think that that is a very good development from them because, again, in years past,

I don't know if they would have done that. So these wins were as good of wins as the Celtics have had. throughout not only this playoff run, but over the last three, four years, in my opinion. I'm actually very proud, I guess, of the Celtics. Yeah, I think they don't do what they should have done. I think the Timber, I don't really view the Pacers as ever being super serious. And respect to them, I'm more so thinking respect to them for staying in these games,

especially without Halliburton. They suck to their offensive system, T.J. Moncone cooked, Nemhard cooked. and they look like a team that could have won some of these games when I don't really think they had any business being in them at all so shout out them they played outstanding laid a good groundwork for next year whatever happens happens whatever you know they're probably going to bring Pascal back

however they improve next year maybe it's a Benedict Matherin jump maybe it's Tyreys Halliburton looking more like early season Tyrese whatever may be I'd be encouraged if I was a Patriot fan going to next year Celtic I think they just did more the same right they're just they showed us that they're still good enough to win despite having not have a KP for the entire series Al Horford's a great backup that can step in I don't have a ton of takeaways about them

I'm just kind of thinking about what are they going to do in the finals now and whoever their matchups going to be yeah I mean again like we've we've been waiting for that but with the Celtics the also another another nice nice thing to small thing to note

Drew Holiday over the last two games Drew Holiday has been coming up massively clutch and for for a guy that has had his playoff issues right if drew holidays locked in right he had the the knocked away stolen about holiday call again but if he's on if he's on his a game both ways i do think that that takes them to another level um especially without kp going into guard karee to guard lucca like that that to me is a very very good sign also very funny that jler

brown got um eastern conference finals MVP and what an aura list just award like nobody about about it's so dumb that the that the conference finals have have awards like come on man we we we didn't have to do that yeah i mean it's fine it's harmless i guess and maybe over time it'll earn some history and people will start to care more but right now everyone's like congrats to jelan brown i'm like i guess congrats him for making the finals i care more about that good for him like he played well but like i i don't need didn't caleb martin oh no Caleb Barton almost won it, but Jimmy Butler won it last year. But I'm like, I've never given a fuck about it.

We forget about the next day. Yeah, man. It was awful. But yeah, so for the Celtics, you're right. I haven't changed my opinion on what I think that they are. But, you know, people do stuff in the regular season and we're like, oh, noticing. Like, I think that I'm going to take that into the playoffs. People do things in the first couple rounds of the playoffs where now you think that they're able to accomplish something that you didn't think previously.

It's kind of the same way with me in the Celtics, where it feels like we're on a path of them fixing the late game stuff. And as long as they look more comfortable down the stretch of that, then they're good. If the Celtics were, if people felt that the Celtics were, you know, clutch, this would be undoubtedly one of the best. most dominant teams of all time. Right now, we are just waiting for them to to win the title so that they can prove all of the advanced metrics and, you know, they have a net rating that stands, some of the best teams of all time, they almost won 65 games, all this stuff. It doesn't mean a thing without the ring, yada, yada, yada, they have to go get it.

So, yeah, that's what we're waiting on. Yeah, for sure. What I find interesting is the Mavs, let's assume the MADS are making the finals. Maybe the Timberwolves mounts a crazy comeback and we all look stupid. I feel safe assuming that won't happen for now. They are extremely battle-tested for this playoff series. However much that matters to you, they went through the Clippers, one of the best coaches in the league. Obviously, Kauai wasn't there, so that's a week of series.

They beat the one seed in OKC, who defended them as well as anybody has so far. They were a tough win. They were one Shay, Gildes-Alexander, foul, a three-point shot away from potentially forcing a game seven. hard-fought series where they had to beat the best of the best in the conference. Game three, they faced the top defense in the league and whooped their fucking ass. This is a run where they're seeing everything that you could possibly throw with them on both sides of the ball and coming out on top. The Celtics sleepwalked to the finals, which, you know, there's a lot of discourse around the finals run

and how they don't respect it and yada yada, not here for that. All they can do is players in front of them. I don't really care. I don't hold it against them. But it wasn't hard, you know, at all. at really any state. Sure, the Patriots made it hard that it locked in,

but it was like a, let me try it real quick, the type of lock in, you know? Like, they had to, like, get serious for a second. Do you think there's anything to the fact that

they, one, had these clutch issues you worry about while Luca does not? And then two, they're coming into it. I guess you can say, untested? Is that a thing, you think?

I think it's massively overblown. Yeah. I think, I think I'd I agree. I'm just opening the question. Yeah, no, but I think that for a team with the level of experience that the Celtics do, whether you play in these games leading up to the playoffs or not, I don't think that that is going to 100% change your mindset. It might change how I feel about you, but like, I don't know, unless Jason Tatum is watching

every single episode that we do, and he's like, I'm going to prove. Donovan wrong, like, unless, unless that's the thing. I don't think that I'm impacting, you know, what the subjects are doing. So they are either going to get it done on their, on their own or it's not. And I'd look he'd rather their legs to be fresher. I'd rather they play four, four game, five game series instead of going to, instead of going to six, going to six with, you know, where every game in that Thunder series was super, super, super tough. And for Luca to be hobbled throughout that, I really have to push through. like he might have some miles on his body that when we go to the next round he gets a little tired we're kind of seeing that with anthony edwards right now he looks tired so yeah

i think i think i think i think i think i think there's something to the fact that when you play this top talent and you go down at times have actually losses and really pushed your limit your coaching staff is forced to make adjustments and forced to react to different looks that maybe they wouldn't have gotten to without that like i don't know if i can necessarily think of one specifically for the maz whatever may be but you know and something doesn't work and Kyrie played poorly in the second series they had to find a way to win around that

and it was PJ Washington taking advantage whatever may be I feel like you probably learned things about yourself as a team you probably gain counters you gain versatility

that maybe Joe Mozilla could do that regardless he doesn't need to be pushed but there's no scenario where the Celtics had to make a big change to how they play

they were never pushing that way yeah but I also think that if you that's a if every coach could do that like that's doing with the

The Celtics are doing is the goal of everybody. You want to get to a situation where you are the number one seed, where you have home court advantage, you're playing against the favorable matchups, and you can just roll the ball out, play your style of basketball, and win the game. You don't want to have to go home and stay up until 5 a.m. and be like, you inevitably will have to, and they're going to have to do that for the first time in the finals, while Jason Kidd and his staff have had to do that several times. And that could be a difference early in the series when they are just making adjustments to the first time. but but their but their adjustments are going to be at least up until this point because let's say that the mabs win tonight they're both going to have the finals won't start for a week and a half basically right i guess a week um both teams are going to have seven days to go over film to think of everything and the same way that boston is going to have all this time to scout and be ready for the stuff that dallas is has put on tape. Dallas is also going to have to do that. And let's say that Dallas is prepared and they have their scout and report and they go into game one, get blasted. Now you have to on the fly make adjustments to stuff that you may not have seen before. Or let's say that Boston

gets ready and they throw in a little wrinkle in game one and they put something on tape that they haven't had to going into the finals and they're able to catch the maps off guard. Like there's also an element of surprise that Boston has now that they didn't have to go deep into their bag where Dallas, how much deeper can their bag get and they might have shown everything. Fair? Okay. I respect that. Yeah, I think there's two sides to it.

I feel it. Donovan, do you have a debate of the day for us today? I do. I do. I want to hear what most things about this. Tell them to tell us about your debate of the day. He's listening. I think we need to stop all-time rankings. Veebly disagree. As a guy who got $500,000, 500K views on a podcast episode

where we did an all-time rankings, I think we should do them more often. I think that, and specifically, so like, Luca is going to come in and he's having this all-time rate. And this is really what I mean,

because obviously like, all-time rankings, they're fun. I understand them. I'm getting kind of tired of them, though, because I think we need, to institute a two-year minimum. You need to have a two-year sample size before we can start talking about all-time rankings

because he's going to go in and he's going to do this. He's going to have the run this year and people are going to vault him up. Tatum is going to have whatever year he has. They're spamming L's. That's fine. They span L for you finish.

Finish. Get your shit off. Yeah. Ante Edwards didn't even finish the season and we're like, oh yeah, he's, he's, top eight he's doing this i think we need to wait more time before before you're eligible to be in these all-time rankings to be in the conversation for like okay yeah now you can move up because it could it could just be a fluke or you or you may have a really good year and then now you have to go through all of the battles and then you get back to where you were originally like a lot of

stuff can happen and so we just need to hold off a little bit that's really it your take is just we shouldn't we should not have a recency bias we should overreact so i that's not really hot thing i get we just we just we just yeah we just need a we just need to to calm down because i know i know i get why you say that you're right you don't know but do you actually know what spawned it what's spawned it you you sponded lucca um lucca hit the shot in game three or or no in game two yeah and one of the first words out of your mouth was like oh my god is he going to be like top 15 all time and I was like oh my god I didn't say 15 I didn't say 15 or like whatever whatever whatever whatever whatever but like as soon as he hit the as soon as he hit the shot you're like

what is this mean for his all-time ratings I was like bro come on like we got to relax I have terminally online ranking brain to my fucking core all I think about is in content form so I'm like well what is it got to do with my all-time rankings but I didn't actually say it that way but I did say was that's when I realized oh my god he's going to make the finals so my thought was wow if he makes the finals he can win it and if he wins it after being this dominant from this young of an age what is that going to be all time and I don't apologize for that at all I think it's awesome to think about things in a giving flowers way and think about things like wow what does this mean all time what does this mean for this person's trajectory I think one

the most fun things we can do is appreciate people that are making history happen and I think we oftentimes, there is a lot of overreaction, like you said, always. Obviously, Anthony Edwards is the fucking king of everyone's calling MJ for all the wrong reasons. I do think there is sometimes people have to see it to believe it. And I think sometimes you know when you know, Luca Doncha is clearly one the most talented, whatever number you want to throw out. They're 30, 35, whatever players you've ever seen in our fucking lives. It takes something like a final trips and like a championship for people to see that and appreciate that. And I think there's many times where you know very early on.

I have a tweet from 2019. I saw yesterday when I was looking at my Luca tweets where I said, I've been watching Luca games all week and I think this might be the best pick and roll ball handler I've ever seen. He was like 20 and I thought that. And I think we need to be better

at realizing something's early on and being able to say them without it being a prevailing narrative. We called the Tim Wolves, the 04 Pistons with Dwayne Wade. Like two weeks, not even a week ago. go. And I think like that that kind of stuff has is this is why we do it. We're podcasting.

We have to react in the moment. This is what this is for. It's the fun part. That's the fun part of the game. We're going to. We're going to do it. And it is part of the game. I think if you try so hard to be right and not enjoying the moment and appreciating crazy moments and you're going to be wrong sometimes, I'm going to be wrong every time and enjoy the moment when it happens. I'm not trying so hard to be right about every single thing. I'm not even saying for it to be for it to be right does it I I don't know I feel like in the last month or so I've kind of backed off on my like love for all time maybe I'm burnt out right listen I was watching first take at nine years old you know what I'm saying or whatever but like I think that um yeah I think looks at rising gas prices and goes how will this affect Lucas legacy a hundred percent in his brain all the time everybody else thinks about lebron's legacy it's lucas legacy right now yeah it's not even not legacies per se well i guess i guess you can use that word that word has a negative connotation

but i do think it's fun to live history in the moment and i think this is why we like sports and i think there's no problem enjoying crazy things as they happen and realizing you're in the moment like that to me is the most fun part about sports i got to be outside the moment i think i'm i'm trying to i'm trying to be neal i'm trying to step outside of the matrix real quick I found the tweet. I tweet this in 2019. So when you call me a Mavs hater or a Luka hater,

just know I've been on this Luca train from fucking day one. 2019, December 2nd. I've been watching Mazz games all week and man. I feel safe saying Luka is one of if not the greatest pick and roll ball handlers I've ever seen play.

What was the play? Yeah, I think I made like a little highlight real things to see that is him going downhill, trapping Aaron Baines, throwing a lob. Look at that fucking gorgeous play. Look at this manipulation

of the defense. Oh, yeah. This is a two-minute clip. That's crazy. This is year two, Luca Donchich. Are you joking? Who does this? Like, I felt from the jump that he is this level of player.

And I've said that on the pod a million times, right? That he's clear on that trajectory. He has five first team all the NBAs now. As soon as I realized to go in the finals, I'm thinking, oh, my God, what if he does it? Like, this is going to be a dope-ass moment. Relax. I want to see you do it. I want to see you do it.

I didn't say he's for sure going to do it, but I think it's okay to be, like what happens then like someone said by the tire of the glazing let's talk about these news stories

man less glazing that's my that's my debate less glazing in an NBA discourse

what else say chat is a W take now did Donovan redeem himself he's all his anti-glazing take is that a W?

Please slow down on the glazing okay fair enough so Mowe has a BBL okay

Let's get back in these news stories. So it's that the glaze is worse than Dawn and Mello? Is it glazing if I do it for everybody and I just think about things in this way? I mean, I guess it is different for Luke. I have been a Luca fan from day one, so I get it.

I'm Nepotent glazing. That's crazy. Someone said, Isaac glazes every great white dude. I love Yonnes, too. It's not just the white ones. I just, I am somebody. You know, you know. I am very pro,

appreciating great talent. He's like, I'm very pro white. We have a friend in our group chat of friends from college that hates me because he says I'm a fan of everybody and he wishes I would pick aside and pick somebody and hate more. And I'm like, he's like, he calls me like corny for just, oh, I love basketball. But I'm like, I think watching stars and appreciating stars is fucking fun. I don't necessarily, you know, I like them all. Guys, Isaac at one time had like, yokees,

Larry Markinen, he had, I don't think you had Sabonis, you had, Yolich, Luka, Marketing. All the, every white guy, 90% of the white players in the league have spent time on your roster of fantasy basketball. The only one who doesn't make the cut is Sabonis. The next story we have. Bronny James was scheduled for 10 workouts with NBA teams, but he's declined all of them except for two, the Lakers and the Sons. Phoenix will legitimately be considering Bronny at the 22nd overall pick. someone said Isaac supports players over teams fuck no I'm a Lakers fan

I just appreciate players but either way how do you feel about this Donovan do you think is Brony going to be a Phoenix fan maybe I have no idea

what Matt HB is thinking I think he I think he opened up his PS5 and I think he has a handful of dice and I think he just has a system in his head and he's like all right whatever we're going to do we're going to see what 2K lets me do and then I'm going to go out

and I'm going to spend a billion dollars to go out and do it. Like, I think that that's how he approaches running the sun. So, I don't know. They probably might. They might. I can see them doing this to go get another star because clearly

Matt Ispia is like, I know your name. You have to play on my team. Like, you're talking, Matt Ispia, let me tell you a little something. Chat, come here close. Let me tell you a little bit something about a man named James Jones. This man played with LeBron James for years. Miami Heat and the Cleveland Cavaliers

Very close to LeBron James He got a GM job Immediately the Phoenix Suns bought out Tyson Chandler so he could sign him to Lakers That is the first thing that happened when James Jones became the Phoenix Suns general manager Back in I guess 20 Maybe 2018 or 2019 whatever it was

Noticing Noticing I forget what it was There was another thing where there's a lot of rumors about the Suns doing something to help the Lakers Noticing James Jones has come out several times on record

and so he does not care about draft picks. He does not value them. They are constantly trading them. He does not view draft picks as an important part of building a team with the star power he has. Noticing, 22nd overall pick, first draft pick they're going to have in a long time with a GM who does not want to put rookies on his team.

Longstanding rumor that LeBron James will follow Bronny. He's come out and said, no, he's not going to do that, all this stuff. But that's a thing. James Jones, close to LeBron. LeBron's son, in the draft, needs to be drafted. if he's closing the first round, it's good for him. Noticing, it all adds up. It would make total sense to me if you picked Bronny

for one to maybe get LeBron. If not to get LeBron, don't him a bone. Noticing. They're saying that you're trying to make noticing your catchphrase, which is very funny. Moble me on. Moble me on. Most always say noticing it.

It's hilarious. I love it. If you had to put a percentage right now on how confident you think that Brony James is going to be a Phoenix son What is that number? I mean, I don't know

I'm not confident at all. I don't fucking know, but... Say a number. Pick a side. What I will say is I think it's probably at this point there's smoke, there's fire. And I will say the sons

are probably the most plausible team that he ends up on. I think so as well because I could also see them they're like, listen, we might as well take the 6-1 point guard. We don't have a point guard. Like if you're going to take any point guard,

point guard in a draft class that has been ruled out as one of the worst of all time you might as well take a flyer on the point guard that could potentially land you LeBron James in the process yeah right so it it makes it makes sense um but the thing is he's also it's in his reign he's predicted to be an early second on pick or whatever in a weak draft he's it's not crazy for someone to be projecting the second round to go late first so they could like him I guess it's not impossible I sure why not right like it's not the worst pick in the world I don't think it's not like he's going seventh overall right they're not picking him over Rob Dillingham

it's not like it's ridiculous I mean come on someone said Isaac so someone said stop being neutral Isaac next person said Isaac try not to get people pissed I don't know how you could believe that I don't get people pissed when you've heard me talk about Alprin Zangoon and DeMontas Sabonis I don't know how that could be your how that could be your final thought about me 100%. No, I do think that it would, if it gets you LeBron, fine, do it. But if you are doing this to only get LeBron and you don't get him to wait, I think that it's a waste of a draft pick, especially if Brony is not number, if Brony is not the number one player on your draft at that,

at that point, and you go out and draft him and you don't get LeBron James, it is then a waste of a draft pick, like you messed up on, on the pick. And so there is some risk about that. Someone said Sudge GM out there running KOT4Q rebuilds. I think if they had to view Bronny as, I feel like they should be in a position where they should be drafting a rookie that can contribute because they need depth. And Brony is very young, needs time to become who we can be potentially if you view him as a serious long-term prospect. And that, that's what's puzzling, right? That obviously is the brawn angle. If they're going to tell us that's nothing to do with LeBron, then it's puzzling

why the specific position they're in, why they'd be looking at that specific prospect? You would think they would need somebody a little more win now, right? 100%. So, yeah, so... Noticing. We're the noticers today. I'll say that. Exactly.

Next story. The Ringer put out their top 25 players under 25 list, and it's fucking horrendous per the Ringer standards lately. They are good at clickbait. They have... This is their top 10 on their top 25 under 25. At 10, they have Zion Williamson slash Jammerant because they can't stand on business. At nine, they have Palo Bancaro, at eight, Jalen Williams, seven Chad Holborn,

agenda, six Tyrese Maxi, five Tyrese Halliburton, four Luca Donchich, three Sheigilders, Alexander, two Anthony Edwards, and one Victor Wemnon Yamma. Now, when was this published? May 22nd, about six days ago. Listen, that was pre, I think that was pre, you know, 3-0. I can see how you would say and the Edwards is like on that

if you are caught up in the hype I can I can 100% see it I cannot If you're if you're There's been no point Since Luca Donchurch's birth In which Anthony Edwards Has been better at him

At anything basketball related Anything basketball related? Never mind he's better at Dunkin My bad my bad overall He's not been a better basketball player Since birth He's better at Dunkin there you go you give him that that problem he's got that thank you uh nah yeah they were probably

caught up caught up in the hype i can see that i don't really care about any of that what i do care about you want to talk about enjoying greatness in the moment my man wemby is first on this list and i love it i love it i'm the with the way that you are with luka that's how i am with wendy i'm telling you guys right now i am showing up next season I'm going to have a victor woman in yama jersey right it's going it's going to be in the background this dude is the future he is the future goat stay you know if he stays healthy all that type stuff but I like that they put him at one your agenda is also winning because jdub is over palo ban caro at the bottom of the list I don't think he should be I people

misconstrued what I think about jay don't I hate palo I think that jalen my original take my original take that started all this is I said Jalen Williams should be viewed in the same light in the same tier of prospect as Chet and Palo. I don't think he's better than Palo right now and I don't think he's better than Palo right now. I thought he's better in the regular season this year. I guess I'm comparable. That's an argument. I don't think he's better long term. I think Palo's obviously going to be the better player eventually I would be the better. And this seems like a mix of projecting and right now. I don't really know what they're gauging and right now. If it's right now, why would Luca not be one? Even if it's like a bullshit to me. It looks like a bullshit to me. It was like a bullshit to me. It was like it. like, do you? Looks like a TD3 list. No one knows what they're talking about. Exactly. It's just a perfect combination of projecting and you project on the players that are not as good as you think that they will be and you say and then you do like right now for

the other players. So the only the only person who actually is like truly misranked is Luca. There's no way that he should be anywhere outside of the top two. Why are John Morant and Zion below Jalen Williams? is in Palo. Like, I love Jadup. He shouldn't be above John Morant. Like, what are we talking about? I mean, don't make me say it. I get it. We don't want to support. This is like,

is this anti-gun violence propaganda? What is this? This is ridiculous. I'm just saying, listen, he'd be doing stuff that you can't be doing. Like, I'm sorry. Listen, I support gun control too. I still think John Morant should be top five. He's John Morant. You'd be messing up the money, bro. This is the ringer, not the NBA. The ringer doesn't give a shit about the NBA's money.

Mm-mm. Mm-mm. You have to know. If you mess up everybody's money when you are not out there. That mess not my money. We're fine. It's not my fault.

You're trying to be bishing from juice. You know what I'm saying? Just running around. Yeah, but Luke could not be number two is indefensible. So much about this is stupid. We'll move on. This is what they wanted to do.

Every time I see a stupid thing like this, I feel the need to put in the dock because this is, it's so funny, but in a day, this is what they want us to do. They got us. They always get me. I can't help,

but be like, what are you talking about? Next story, the Washington Wizards will make Kyle Kuzma available in the trade market. Washington was seeking two version of Picks

or Kuzma at the trade deadline, but it's unknown if the price has dropped or not. I put this on here. I think Kyle Kuzma is fascinating as a trade target. I think he is good and can help a lot of teams

be that PJ-Washton type. We saw him already in that role before on the Lakers and they won the chip. I think him going back into that role is very interesting for a lot of teams that need a big wing like that. I see people saying goofy-ass Kuzma, blah, blah, blah, blah. I get it.

He's funny. He's Kuzma. But he's good. He can help some contenders. So, where do you want to see him go? Anywhere outside of Washington, because I feel the same way as you. Like, I think Kyle Kuzma can be very, very good on

another team. And things look very different if Kyle Kuzma is your fourth option, rather than if he's your first and I think um I saw one trade the other day um it was kind of interesting not going to lie Homer stuff right here somebody was like if the Knicks miss out on mckell bridges why don't you go for Kyle Kuzma and I was like oh right like I can I can see how that how that can work I just really want to see him on any contender or I just I want I want to see you on a contender with the with a good ball handler like legitimately and then we can make

some stuff work. What does a Cousman trade look like for the Knicks? Let me, oh my bad guys, I hit the mic. I forgot what they were saying. I think, oh, the Kings being linked to him for a fucking millennium at this point. When he was a Laker, there was, they were linked to him and the buddy hills stuff for a long time. I think they're doing anything, though? That's the, that's the real question. Are they, like, are they delusional enough to think that they can run this back? I, I hope that they learn from not going after Pascal Siakum and try to go get Coosma this, this summer. I think Kings is most likely.

I think Thunder is second most likely because they're going to make a move. They're getting somebody. OG was my favorite pick for them. Off the table, he's going to be a Nick. Kuzza makes a lot of sense there to replace Josh Giddy and be the true four,

make J-Dub stop being around with four. She can get back to his true position a little bit. Keeps them being a big team because Kuzra's a large motherfucker. I like that a lot. Yeah. I think... I don't know how you make that happen, though.

You know, who's to the Kings is the best combination in terms of, like, fit and need. Because, like, the Thunder, they're going to be fine next year, right? Like, their big thing is, like, if Giddy's still there, which he shouldn't be, but, like, if Giddy's still there, they're still going to be a good, you know, regular season team. They're going to have to just, you know, work around in the playoffs the same way that they did this year. Sacramento, if they don't make a move this offseason, they are going to. going to be out of the playing entirely next year like they're like they are going to get passed up and they need to make moves now so i like kuzma to sacramento a hundred percent also because

they're probably going to lose malik monk and you need to you need to at least stay steady and get another like good talent in the door yeah so yeah i like shout to elena lena tip two dollars She said, Conley, Aunt Coos, Cat, Gobert. I'd love that. You want to get rid of Jada McDaniels, though, for Coosma? Is that what you're implying? You have Kevin Durant. Why would you want to get rid of, come on?

I love Jay McDaniels. I would, if you're trading Cat, and it's a three-team trade, and part of it is getting Coos back plus other pieces, that would interest me, maybe, because you sell the Nasreed element. I wouldn't want to trade Jayne McDaniels, though, in any circumstance. Cat for Coos, okay. No, no, not cat for coos. That'd be horrendous.

Cap for coos plus other stuff. Even then, I would have wanted to do that. No, no, no, no, he's not going to be terrible. Fuck that. Let's get him out of here. Let's go. Let's go. Let's do it.

He's doing an interesting trade piece. I can see the next. That would be interesting. Is that a world where you get rid of Randall? I think the trade that I saw, it might have been some, you know, some wishful thinking. Because I don't remember seeing Randall in the deal. I think it was like, it was like, uh, it was like, uh, It was like boy out for salary filler and just like a whole bunch of picks.

It was mainly based around draft capital rather than Randall going, going out. Okay. Next new story. ESPN's Mike Greenberg ranked as top five most dominant runs to the finals, NBA history. One, run to the finals, so not counting the finals itself. One, 2017 Golden Day Warriors. Two, 1996 Chicago Bulls. Bolto teams didn't lose any games, I don't think, right?

the 17 Warriors I think it was three sweeps Yeah 2001 Lakers Also a sweep For Boston Celtics 2024 5 1983 76ers

Two losses for the Celtics Do you view the Celtics As being a top five Most Dominant finals run of all time No I'll be even more Hell no Fuck no

God no please no whatever no you can no yeah there's a difference between they've won the games right they've had as unblemished of like a win-loss record as possible but they have to come back down from 20

against T.J. McConnell and Andrew Numhart like twice the level of competition is not there well no I think if they had won these games by like 50 I think that you could still look at them and be like, okay, this is dominant. They have just not been dominating

in the playoffs in a space that you think that they probably should have. So with those expectations, like, no, it's not dominating. Okay. Next story. Sam Presti, when asked about the Gordon-Haver trade, he said, I missed on that, that's on me,

but I'm learning. It was a longer answer, but he essentially came out and said, the Gordon-Havir was not good on my team, and I should not have traded for that guy, which is wildly candid for somebody that's crazy to say this close I'm not not crazy like you shouldn't say it but surprising that a GM would be this honest and I fucking love it

it's wild I saw I didn't see a I saw the quote first but I didn't see it with the video so I thought this was a fake quote I thought it was just somebody who's just still mad at at going to Hey we're making this up because I couldn't believe that a GM would say like yeah I messed up on that

it's it's um it's interesting and i guess you know like you're like heyward obviously didn't didn't fit he didn't make them better they misread that the situation they probably should have went after a back of big rather than trying to get uh gordon heyward but you take a swing to go and try to replace josh giddy like i understand i get that part so he's also yeah i guess it's cool it was also like a salary dump in some ways right he's an expiring deal He's on the team anymore. He's obviously not being brought back. No harm, no foul, right?

He's like, listen, you swing and you miss. I think this is probably, I didn't hear the question because this clip didn't have it. I imagine they asked him about Gordon Hayward saying, because as soon as the fucking game was over when they got eliminated, he went to the media and said, I thought I'd have a bigger role. I've disappointed that didn't happen.

So he threw the first stone. He was the first one that was like, the shit's not working. I'm pissed for lack of better words. So I'm guessing he was asked about that and he was candid, right? And I like it. But I don't know if I think more.

GM should be like this because it's probably a slippery slope but i like it no you can't do it you can't you can't be like this i feel like everybody everybody says that they want honesty until the honesty gets there then you're like yo like that's actually that's actually too much if if gms came out and we're talking as freely as they normally do or we're talking as honestly as they actually think that they were how many mistakes would be running around the league right now. How many people would have these beefs? It would be fun to see

because then you would have added layers of soap opera drama in like revenge games. But you don't have to do that. You don't have to, because I also think, we all know that it doesn't work. Now, I will say, you do reserve the right to stand on business. So if Gordon Hayward comes out

and starts talking, Sam Presti, you can say whatever you. want. I think if this was like unprompted, if somebody had just asked about Gordon Hayward's fit on the team and he was like, yeah, like now, like I missed her, that he sucked. It wasn't good. Okay, you didn't have to do that. But Gordon started talking so you could do whatever you want. Fair enough. Isn't. Don't throw the first stone, fight back, I guess. Don't, listen, don't tell a lot about me. I won't tell truth about you.

Nope. Do not do it. That's something you don't want to do. Next story. Ooh. So I'm thinking it further. Ooh. Jeff T. on his podcast said,

Chris Paul is just as good as Alan Iverson. His career is better than Alan Iverson. How do you feel about this? And why is it facts? I mean, yeah. You got it. I'm not going to argue. It's not,

it's not anti-Ilan Iverson, by the way. It's more pro-Christop. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't see it as that. I mean, Chris Paul, I think, for a longer amount of time, like Chris Paul is a better defender than Alan Iverson. He's a better passer than Alan Iverson.

He would never be the score that Alan Iverson is just because that's not his game. Yeah. But there could, especially early on, there were moments where if you needed Chris Paul to take over and you needed Chris Paul to drive the offense as a score, he was capable of that. So for him to have the longevity that he's had, to have the respect, like, Chris Paul's nickname is to appoint God. Like, that's, that's something that doesn't happen accidentally.

So I don't, I don't hate this. I don't know if you realize this. I think Chris Paul has become maybe the most underrated player in modern NBA history. The young generation does not respect him even a little bit. When we were young, when we were in, like, Mills Corley High School, before Steph Curry took off, before this new age of amazing point guards. People talked about Chris Paul, at least in our age group,

maybe it was just kids being dumb, as being one of the best point guards of all time. I commonly heard young people say Chris Paul is the best point guard ever. It was always magic, but Chris Paul was held in that regard when he was younger. Like he was considered an all-time great player.

And for the past seven years or so, he's obviously been older because he had great longevity. And the new generation grew up in an era where they didn't know that, and they didn't see the residuals of that. They didn't hear about a finals he had, and if he had, whatever,

nothing reminded them of that. And so many people don't realize that he is one of at least seven, eight, at worst, ten greatest point guards of all time. You have no idea how good Chris Paul was. Facts. Like, they don't know. They legitimately don't know.

Literally. Yeah, he doesn't have any defining accolates. And I think over the long, over the long run the line i feel like alan iverson is also kind of for guards he's got he's kind of the line where it's like fan favorite to like very very good and like obviously hall of fame but like fan favorite kind of you know or popularity contest to actually you know amazing that i whatever um chris paul it's kind of in that range with russell well But Russ is probably going to win a lot of those arguments because you have the one MVP that you can point to and say like, where at least in 2017, you can say that he was the best player in the league.

And you don't have that for Chris Paul. And I mean, listen, the playoff stuff is just, you can't. Yeah, it is what it is. Yeah, exactly. You can't really fight that when he didn't make the conference finals until 21. He made that bitch though, and he made the finals. but people I see something

in the chat around says accolades slash rings slash box score discourse is so dumb when discussing on court impact true and Chris Paul

is the poster boy of that I commonly say on the show and in shorts that when we can I you know I use Chris Paul in a lot of our debates

because he's an interesting player when you compare him to people with different archetypes when we compare like him and Russ is a common

one we talked about I said I pick Chris Paul because he contributes to winning and he elevates those around him and makes your team better and he's in the court

if I want to build a winning culture I would love to start that equation with Chris Paul and so many people in the comments is like how can you say winning and Chris Paul in the same sentence he's never won anything and I'm like that's just not how this shit works it's not about you got to win a ring to be a winning player some players impact those around him and lift offensive rating and lift your team to wins and lift your team to score and

points and do all the things necessary to have impact and people don't have these young people maybe maybe it's a generational thing who knows because like I said they didn't see him in his prime people can't appreciate that in history without seeing a ring attached to it. Also, Chris Paul was making the Los Angeles Clippers championship contenders. Like, that's a win in itself. Chris Paul, Chris Paul was out here raising DeAndre Jordan to all NBA. DeAndre Jordan was all NBA status because of Chris Paul, right? The level, everywhere that Chris Paul has gone, the team has gotten better, right?

Like, you, if you actually talk about winning and being successful, like you're saying, that Oklahoma City team that ended up being the five-seed, I guess, five-seat or four-seat, I think. Maybe five, because I think Houston was four. But that was supposed to be a team that was tanking. They took a young SGA and Dennis Schroeder, and Chris Paul was like, we are not going to lose. Dude, Al-Wilford was on the team. Him and CP3 were supposed to be washed, and they fucking resurrected their careers together. Barrymore, he banished him to the middle of the country with nothing around him

except for tumbleweeds and the Dave and Busters and was like, yeah, like, I'll see you later. And Chris Paul was like, no, we're still going to make the playoffs. We're still going to be very competitive. And you saw it in Charlotte. You saw it in, or I mean, you saw it in New Orleans. You saw it in L.A. You saw it in Phoenix. The Suns made the finals, right?

Because Chris Paul was there and actually gave Devin Booker, somebody else to play with that cared about winning as much as he did he was actually able to help all these other all these other young players that were on the rise and be like yeah this is kind of how you do it and everybody else takes a step up and they get to the finals like we can't yeah we can't some of this ball like that aragato euro said well like what exactly does that mean when you say what not winning is how can you be a winning player if you've never won you see that's not how it works but that's literally how it works winning player and winning does not mean has to be win the finals.

Only one team wins the finals every year. There's a reason his teams don't win. Usually it doesn't always have, sometimes it has to do with him. He's been injured. He has come up short in times. He's not a perfect player by any means. Most people aren't.

There's a lot of other contextual things that come into play, team to team basis, why you don't win the finals? If you're only judging somebody and only giving somebody credit on did they win the chip that year, you're missing out on so much around that. And that's just such a naive way to view basketball.

If your team is consistently really good and consistently in the mix, in the playoffs, because of what you bring to an offense and how you elevate those around you, you're a winning player. It's not only about winning chips. Like the game does not just remember the people that win the finals that year. There are winning players that have not won a championship, and I'm not going to say names, but there are losers who have NBA titles, right? It goes, it goes both ways. And so, yeah, and you can go all throughout NBA history and some of the best players, the most

talented players of all time don't end up winning rings now do you have consequences for that right you're never going to think about charles barclay in the context of like the second or maybe even third best power forward of all time you're not going to think of like who i'm you know like like like james hardin is never going to be in top 25 discourse probably from here on now even though that he has and i mean what no i'm not laughing at you someone's said Danny Green sneak this? I did not say that. That's not what I said.

No, Danny Green is a very winning player. That's a good example of a winning role player. He was like that age as Derek White or whoever. Exactly. But yes, the point is there are winning players who just end up not winning. And there are people who are able to be some losers and still find themselves on a successful team. Is it a broken clock's bright every now and then? Twice a day.

Twice a day. Broken Suns fan tip $5. He said, chief flatland dropping 20 and his rand-dancer ones will avenge my poverty franchises. So I'm about Kyrie's shoes. Those are tough. Those are tough. I like those. They're not like, I would never buy them, but just as like a special color way.

Like, you know, it's Kyrie's background. I think he's part of Native American. That's a cool, that's a cool addition of his shoe. How far have we come? We've come so far from where we were a year and a half ago on Kyrie, that we're out here, like, praise him. If Kyrie did this while he was saging the Boston Garden, oh, we would have killed him. It would have been so bad. I never gave a shit about him saging the Boston Garden.

He should just not be a... Not you. Maybe not you. Everybody else would have been on his head if he was wearing those shoes while saging the garden. Keep him off of Twitter. Keep him off of vaccine discourse. And he's an awesome player. Always has been.

It's always everything else that he's done. Yeah But yeah man I think that's the end of the stream It was a great one Appreciate y'all coming by You know what's the L-O-Fax gone We'll see you guys on Friday

With the new episode With hopefully Mo feels like talking Today he was real quiet He was feeling a little bit shy He woke up on the wrong side of the bed He wanted to just chill And look at you guys Stare you in the soul

Hopefully he has something to say on Friday All right ma I'll see you later See you bro I'll see