The Deep 3 Podcast - The Chicago Bulls MUST Trade EVERYONE! |Ep. 16

Episode Date: December 22, 2022

It's time for the Chicago Bulls to blow it up and trade EVERYONE. #nba #podcast #chicagobulls #bulls Follow us on TikTok!: https://www.tiktok.com/@thedeepthree Follow us on Instagtam!: https://www.instagram.com/thedeep3podcast/ Isaac's twitter: https://twitter.com/byisaacg Muhamed's twitter: https://twitter.com/Mojo99_ Donnavan's twitter: https://twitter.com/Dsmoot3D Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The first thing we got to talk about, there was currently a basketball renaissance in New York City. Donovan, I want you to start us off and talk about the Knicks who are, what's their winning streak right now? We're at seven games. Seven games in a row from the New York Knicks. That's ridiculous. Listen. Talk about it. We're winning the NBA finals. Oh, okay. We're back. We're back. Talk less about it. Never mind. Yeah. Now, for it's been, it's been really, really like exciting to see. I remember I texted, Isaac, I texted you like three weeks ago. And I was like, I'm not having fun.

watching the next season. It was just a weird, weird situation of, like, there's no defense being played, the fit between Brunson and Randall and Barrett and all those things kind of weren't coming together. Arge's had a really, like, down season to keep it short. Randall's also having, like, you know, up and down this year. But over the last, I guess, like, 10 games.

Yeah. They've really, really gotten back to the identity that they said two years ago where they made it to the force. seed in the east they they were hosting a playoff series against the hawks and that's because of of their defense and the defense has really come through over the last 10 games they've gone from kind of like a mid defensive team they're the best defensive team in the league over the last 10 games that's crazy to say they're the best defensive it's wild it's wild and the craziest part about all of it is it's because of quentin grimes yeah is he the difference maker

I guess so Grimes was supposed to be in the starting lineup at the beginning of the season he had some injuries and so he's been like in and out and finally Tibbs has just said like listen we're going to go all in on defense like I just have to try

something and so Grimes has been in the starting lineup and so you've had Brunson, Grimes Barrett, Randall and Mitchell Robinson and they're just dominating teams they're dominating their top 10 in defense for the year now they're at ninth according to cleaning glass which is wow i think they started off like 23rd for the first few weeks

so that's pretty pretty big difference in 10 games it's it's it's ridiculous and so now like you're so now like the the rotation is much shorter for new york they they only play like eight to nine guys a night and especially with obitopin being hurt the rotation is really really um shrunk but i think for them this is kind of the only thing that you want like there's a clear ceiling on confidence yeah there's a clear ceiling on what the Nix can do, but the fact that they are embracing the identity of their head coach for Tibbs kind of seems like everything is going to stay above water for, I guess, you know, at least another 10 games, right? We'll see what they look like on Christmas. That's going to be a big spot for them. But listen, I'm happy right now. I'm happy. I'm good.

That's it. That's absolutely all I can, all I can ask for. One thing that I want to say is that throughout the tumultuous season that the Knicks have had so far the only thing that has remained constant is the dude that I who had my vote for most improved player of the year and y'all were looking at me like I was crazy

y'all were looking at me like I was crazy he's not going to win it though what he has a strong chance he's not going to win most improved who's going to win it Tyrese probably yeah it's close it's close it's close okay but yeah keep going keep going tell us what

Jalen Brunson has impressed you with Jalen Brunson has impressed me simply because of how consistent he is night in and night out. Your second and third best option, Julius Randall. He has better, I guess, counting stats than Jalen Brunton. But at the end of the day, everyone knows that everyone knows who's going to take the last shot. Everyone knows what they're going to get out of a guy like Jalen Brunton. With Julius Randall, it's up and down. And as over this win street that they've had in this turnaround,

it's been mostly up and he's been more locked in defensively and things like that. And R.J. Baird has been up as well. But those two have been like hella, they were going haywire. And for someone like Jalen Bruns to come in from this offseason and just be the only thing that Nix fans have to look forward to and just hold that confidence in, it's beautiful. And this is what the Knicks needed, like, for a long time. He's the best point card that they've had that they've had since who?

Who knows? Long time. First time or Raymond Felton. Those are nasty names, man. Yeah. You briefly mentioned Julius Randall As like he's had better counterstats But this seven game win streak has been propelled by him

Like he has been incredible Like he's been as good as he was a couple years ago If not even better than some aspects I think over this seven game one streak If I remember he's averaging like 27 points And like over 10 rebounds Like he's been killing it Like for the season I'm looking at the numbers now

He's up to 55% on two pointers Which is where he was better than where he was two years ago Who's at 51% two years ago And that's because he's like Been destroying at the rim Like even when we saw good Julius Randall he's never been a good rim scorer it was because his jump shot was like hot as fuck for one year yeah yeah he's at 68% of the rim before that his career high was 60 except for the days back when he was just

like a rim roller wasn't like a ball handler yeah that's a pretty big difference no it's it's huge and over the last 10 games um he's at he's at 26 and a half points per game he's at 10 rebounds per for a guy right for forces and the efficiency is like it's cool for a guy who's shooting a lot of jump shots he's at 44% so like it's manageable three point shot is at 34% that's very passable um again i don't think he's ever he's never going to get back to contract julius randall and i think i think if you are expecting that to happen you've been tricked because because he was literally playing for for these dollars right he got second he got second team all NBA he was 24 10 and 6 and everybody thought that he was here and he was just like now like i just have to get this bread

and so yeah but he's 23 9 and 4 for the season now like that's pretty good like he's no longer like last year we were like oh this might be one of the worst contracts in the league like who the fuck wants julius randah on their team and now he's still not like i want him to be my top shopmaker but he's at least providing value to them he's not yeah okay i'll say i'll say that i was about to be rude and say that he's not like he's not losing them value and that he's just average i think for the nice solid he's a good player yeah yeah i i also will always have a bad taste in my mouth because the summer of 2019 when the Knicks were supposed to have like that influx with like KD. Karee and Zion and like that whole like dream scenario and then 20 minutes after Kedians

and Karee signed with the Brooklyn Nets who are 20 minutes away they go out and release a statement it's like hey guys we have Julius Randall on the way let's be excited y'all could have waited a day for that like how am I supposed to get excited about Julius Randall and so

So, like, I'm always going to have a little bit of that bias, but he's, he's solid. So I'm, I'm happy for, I'm happy for the Knicks, eight and two in the last 10 games again, 10, 10 game winning streak. They have a very interesting schedule coming up because they have the Warriors at home. Uh, yeah, without Curry. But so they have the Warriors at home, which is winnable. You have the Raptors at home who are free falling, also winnable. You have the Knicks who they've already beaten, they beat twice last week at home. Once again, winnable.

You have three games. before Christmas to where you can, they can go into that matchup with the 76ers on a 10 game winning streak. And I think that they, if they can do that, that's huge. So a question I have is now that,

I have two questions, okay? First one is, is Tom Tibdill's job? Is it safe? For now, for now. Is that a good thing? I think Tom, no.

Well, okay, okay, okay. Double edge of this winning streak. Two, two things. One, I don't think that is good long term because eventually, like, you're going to have to get another coach. Tibbs is not the guy. We've kind of seen that when his back is not against the wall, that he's probably going to revert to something a little bit stupider. Like, just plain and simple. However, the team and the roster construction isn't in a place to where you go out and make the moves.

It's one of the reasons why they didn't go out and spend all of their draft capital to go get Donovan Mitchell because you weren't in a position to, like, if they had Donovan Mitchell on this team, this isn't going to be a top three team in the Eastern Conference, right? You're not competing for a championship. And so why would you go and rush the process, which is something that the Knicks have done in the past? I don't know about that. I think the problem is that they don't have a process right now. It's not that being rushed. There's no end goal in sight that's going to get him to the top three seed. so maybe getting something like Donovan Mitchell is the closest thing you can do.

Yeah. It's not like if you wait it out, they're going to prosper. I don't think that, I think that Donovan Mitchell going to the Cavaliers is the, that was probably one of the more perfect situation that you could have had because you had a team with, with the infrastructure behind him, behind him to make up for all of his deficiencies. And the Knicks, if you end up trading for, for Donovan Mitchell, then you have, again, you have an undersized back court and garland is undersized but he's bigger than jalen brunson is and then yes he is how garland is not bigger than jalen brunson garland is not bigger than jalen brunson

they're right maybe that's similar height but garland is skinny as shit yeah rungson is bulky as hell yeah when i see jalen brunson i always see jela brunson as like small it it does not come across it doesn't matter the two little guys i know what you mean you're right so either way you have an undersized back court. To be able to have Mowbly and Allen in the back instead of Randall and Robinson, and Robinson's played well this year. He's been really good. But to have that in the back is much better.

And so I just think that again, yeah. So like if you- It's nice to have the best defensive front court outside of Milwaukee, 100 little guards. Exactly. So I think that that's kind of a move that you make when you are a piece or two away and the Knicks are three, four moves away from making that. So that's why I'm okay with them. not going out and getting in getting Mitchell so seeing that they can clearly be sorry let me cut you off

mo go ahead you answer this first seeing that they can clearly be a competent team now by this win streak they're not going to be seven game winchings all the time obviously but clearly they can be a lower tier of playoff seed does this make you like not regret not training for donovan for mitchell now if i'm the nick still like i still regret trading for don't not trading for don't Mitchell because of the potential that they would have had with Donovan and Brunson, that duo, I'm not saying that would have been, there would be a contender whatsoever, but they would be a hell of a lot closer compared to what they are right now. And with this, like, what they're doing right now, it's sustainable?

Is it sustainable long term? Like, where are you going with Julius Randall and Jalen Brunson and R.J. Barrett in the next three years? Yeah, exactly. You know what I'm saying? I don't really go anywhere. But with Donovan Mitchell and Jalen Brunson, there's something, that's interesting.

And we can get talking. So I have a question to throw. Well, actually, I want you to answer that question too, Donovan. And I have my question to throw at y'all. Okay, so Donovan, do you think they should regret not training for D. Mitch or does this make you feel better about their future? Um, a little bit of, future.

A little bit of both, I guess. I'm okay with them not training for Mitchell. I'm also very. You're saying that with a straight face. right now, you for real. Yes, no, I'm, I'm serious. This is a team that a decade ago traded everything to go get Carmelo Anthony and gutted the team and made a step in the process that they rushed and then it kind of, it set up Carmelo

Anthony for failure because him and Amarstotemar didn't have anything in the back end to do it. And then they didn't have pieces to replenish afterwards. So I'm okay with that. In terms of the near-term future, if we're going to make a trade to get Julius Randall out of there, I know that we just gave RJ the contract. If RJ is going to be on his way out, then I feel okay. But this is... That's a good point.

Don't me to cut you off. No, no, go ahead. What does a Julius Randall trade look like? Do you think the whole silver lining of this is a trade value is getting higher in the seven game one streak? Maybe. This might be an ultimate tricks y'all trade. it's because I don't think that this is

sustainable over the long term of the season I was listening to the Zach Lowe podcast yesterday and he's mentioning all the numbers for the Nix over the last 10 games right Nick's opponent three point percentage is at 30.2 and so in this and so in this entire streak

you are getting a lot of luck and so once that number comes back to the mean right and once it comes back to where it's supposed to be then what does the defense look like and this was the same thing that happened with the nix two years ago was that they had the number one defense because teams were shooting below average against them than they were everywhere else and it wasn't necessarily due to scheme or people like 100% clamping up they could test real hard they make those misses happen yeah so it's not it's not it's not 100% on that I think that the nicks are probably going to fall back down

they're in the let me see the standings right now they are in yeah they're in the 60s right now they're probably going to fall somewhere into the 9-10 range they're going to be in the play-in and they're probably going to achieve the expectations that we thought they were going to be with a big three of Jalen Brunson, R.J. Barrett, and Julius Randall.

Okay, so... The mid-three. So let's say if the mid-three somehow were to not, you know what I'm saying, sustain this level of how you played basketball and just going and defeated further this season, but what if they were to maintain the seven or maybe keep the sixth seed. Yeah.

If there was a world in that, do you think that the New York Knicks have two all-stars? If not, do they have an all-stars? No, no, no, they have zero all-stars. They don't have any all-stars. No matter what, they have no all-stars. Wow. They have no all-stars.

And to go back to your earlier point, they don't have a most improved player right now because Jalen Brunson, if you look at the odds right now, Jaylon and Brunson, it's tied for 12th in the betting odds for most improved. I'm going to list off the name, in terms of most improved player that are that are crazy.

Bowl Bowl is ahead of Jaylon Brunson. Give it to him. Give it to Bull Bull Bull. Bull Bull deserve his award. So it's ahead of Jalen Brunson. It's Shea, Tyrese, Lowry Marking, and everything science. Oh, She's going to win, duh. Yeah. Boe Bowl, Desmond Bain, Keldon Johnson, Zion, Anthony Edwards, De Aaron Fox, Devin Vassell, O.J.

In Inobie, Jalen Green, Tyrese Hill. Great? Tyreseel, Tyrese, and then Jailon Brunson. bro i hate that job won the fucking award last year because now you're fucking switching up the definition of the god damn award no the definition of the war was never second year players can't win it it's such a dumb hill that was never in the definition well what well you there there's no actual definition for this type of shit you just go by what history tells you and the history told you no sec for the most part no second year player won that award

precedents are made to be broken sometimes exactly bad presents exist yeah but anyway along in this conversation I like how you mention the fact that perhaps Julius Randall might not be there that long because I think there's one guy that we can transition to the next team we're going to talk about and that's Chicago Bulls I think that the Nick should probably try and trade for Zach Levine I think that makes too much sense for them

That's probably so much cheaper than Donald That's way more cheap than Donald Mitch of the church Yeah, way more So let's talk about why I say that Let's talk about the Chicago Bulls Because we even mean to talk about this team for a few weeks now Yeah, that's just a nice way to put it They're in utter fucking turmoil

This team is falling apart at the seams Today there's a report put out by Shams That basically it was like This team struggling, we all know that Everybody's saying we wanted to blow them up Shams was like, listen, from the inside They kind of might want the same thing Zach Levine and DeRosen have had their budding heads

They've had private talks trying to work their differences out Things are not going well in that locker room It's terrible I think it's very funny When you have players-only meetings Before December And you guys have to come in and sit down and have these serious conversations before Christmas, that's a bad sign.

That's a very, very bad sign. And they have not, they, they just haven't had a good season. Everything has gone wrong since kind of the midpoint of last season where everybody started to get hurt. They haven't been able to get it. They haven't been able to get everybody back. The defense has not been able to get back to the level that it was at the start of, uh, of last season.

And now, DeMar de Rosen has also come down. from scoring 35 a night and you look around and say, oh, we actually really, really need you to score 35 on 60% shooting, which would make Demar de Rosen the greatest player ever. And if he's not doing that, and if he's not doing that, then you suck. And you're 11 and 18 and you're probably going to miss the playoffs. Right now the Bulls are the 21st offense in the NBA

and the 17th defense. Just the definition of mid. The Bulls are in purgatory right now. Like, you have, you have Lanzo ball. he can't he can't even walk up the stairs right now does he exist i don't know playing like 2016 roi hibberts then you got zach levine he's hooping on one knee

what a comparison what a name i know dog it is it is it is it is so embarrassing for the chicago bulls in that front office because they just went all in and they let everyone know that they were going all in to do some big things and it did big things for 25% of the season last year which really doesn't matter for shit. And now they're just stuck in this weird-ass middle ground, and they're going to have to

probably hit the reset button. And if they don't hit it sooner than later, then they might fuck themselves with the lottery odds because of that Orlando Magic pick, that's top four protected. Yeah. That's things. So let's talk about that. We know, we don't got to rehash too much what you talk about last week. We know why they suck. They were good last year when they had two of the best defensive guards in the world in their lineup. Once they lost that, they couldn't sustain having Levine de Rosen and Vucevich be three bad defensive players in their starting lineup. It just doesn't make sense on paper It never did

So we know that The thing we're going to talk about now Is what's the path for them Because like you said Their lottery odds matter Because that pick is top four protected So do you all think they should blow it up And if they do

Who should they trade Because there's just a few paths They can go down Yeah If they blow it up I believe that they should trade Everyone Everyone on their roster

Except and if you could keep guys Like Pee Will Pat Williams and Iodusuma Why Patrick William's his name is. Patrick William sucks, but I don't, I'm a, I'm a firm believer that every single young players in the NBA is like their career path, 110 to outcome with the career, 110% is based out of their situation. And Pat, I think any situation is fine for a wing.

No, absolutely not. It was never fine. He was drafted top four. You don't be draft. You don't get drafted top for it just to be like to have the ball as minimal as Pat Patrick. Well, he's not a, he's not a ball handler. It's not really his role. He's supposed to be like a wing, start off on defense, potentially grow his traits along the way. but if you're good at anything you can't dribble that's part of your role period if you're if you're that has to be a part of your role you don't get to be a ball handler are you kidding me yeah no it doesn't that's just simply not that's not sensical that's not how this works you have to be a somewhat of a great school if you're look I'm a great score no listen

I was with you I was with you for I was with you for a second I'm with you on the idea that that a young player's success is is is mainly based on their situation I I think being drafted into a good situation, into a place where they're going to develop you or being in a winning culture or being around older players and having veterans around you to show you the way. I think he has all that. That's important. And that was my next point is that if you have Demard de Rosen who's been to the playoffs, you

have Zach Levine who's done that, you have, you have Vujovic, who is the star on his team in Orlando. There are pieces there to help you improve. And if you have not done that, then that's kind of on you. You just can't dribble. It is what it is. He's just not good at basketball. Like, he's just not a good NBA player, I should say.

I still give him the benefit of it out because at the end of the day, if I have fucking two All-Stars and a former All-Star that I just traded for, why the fuck what I prioritized you in any way, shape, or manner, other than tell you to play good defense. Exactly. So he came into a situation where his role was very clearly defined. Like, they're not drafting him to be the lead score when you have Levine, de Rose, and Booch.

you have to come in you have to do all the dirty work you have to do all the little well he got drafted before the he got drafted before demarta rosen got there it was like it was the same season even if you have levin there they drafted pee will first and then throughout the middle of the seat and whatever they got vucevitz that's one piece added on to your team after vucevich god damn of course you still have a lonsal ball there i'm not i'm not i'm not longzo but you got zack who been there cool you're starting to thinking or you're shuck you're trying to hope that okay maybe lorry marking and p will and lazacques being you can go ahead and do something then you dig then they go ahead and sign lonsol ball

signed fucking demard rosen and now you went from being second or third on the pecking order to fucking fifth maybe six either way we've seen time and time again a good way for wings to develop is being this tertiary option and not being a ball handler just to go get buckets or it's just to or is just to go get buckets like if you just if he actually improved if he actually you know got better then guess what he can get more shots he can be more of an offensive threat but that has it happened how how is he how was he going to get more shots though when you have damar rosen and zack levin doing crazy shit out there working the offseason come back and show me in training camp and if you can't rubble you can't give him more shots he can't dribble he can't

dribble he's not good what are we talking about i'm not even let you get the chance if i got if i got zach will be and damar 30 point per game on my team i'm not doing it why would i do that bro it doesn't he can't do it you can't dribble why are we acting like this is an option he's not good at doing those things i am standing for young players well he's never even had the shirt when he's had when he's had the chance to dribble it hasn't been pretty all right i can admit that he has been i haven't he's a chance to dribble every game he's not good at it i'm not giving why we're acting like we're acting like he's like tally hero rotting away like some ball handler like it's not his roller he's not good that you

don't say we don't say we yeah i'm not a part of you in that's not that's not me can you believe that shit that's not yeah so back to the main point you think they should trade everybody save for their young players who they can try to build around as they do their rebuild. If you can. So the main question I have is that, does that include Zach Levine to you guys? Do you think Zach Levine should be on the move? Yeah. It's pointless.

You have no direction. Yeah, it's interesting because I think they should keep one though. I think they should keep one and not a full gut. I think going into a full gut put you in a situation where you might be like the Houston Rockets and you have to wait. and hit on every single, on every single one of your draft picks. And Chicago historically hasn't been the best for an office. They haven't been the best, the well-run organizations.

So they don't have the clout of a team. Like, you don't have a good reputation of, okay, we can go out and sign free agents and we're going to build this culture back up to what it was. Because they've fairly been a mess for a majority of the time since Jordan left. And so I think that if they have a piece like Zach, Levine that's keeping them through the rebuild. Let's say that they need another piece, then they can go and trade Levine and then get another piece to help them along the rebuild.

But going all in and going to the bottom and building up with nothing around you, I think that's dangerous. You see, I disagree with that because if you try to delay that process and you keep dangling on to Zach Levine while his value might diminish or probably is going to diminish as the years goes on simply because of age and shit like that, then you risk. yourself losing out on that 2025 pick no you're not good they're not going to have the 2025 because when they got demar de rosen it was a trade basically it was a trade they traded with the spurs and they don't have their 2025 pick so it's like if you're going to tank do that

shit now try to capitalize on the on the potential on all the great players that's out for the 20223 draft 24 you're fucked you i don't know if they're i'm not 100 sure if they have their pick i think they do have their pick but 25 you don't have your pick well i'll tell you this if if the only person that they have on their team is zach levine like he's not carrying anybody to to to a crazy amount of wins so you're going to be okay just I promise you so I can have I promise you you can have Zach Levine on your team and still tank those two things are are still possible and and like I said you keep Zach Levine because if you need to maybe speed along the process of of the rebuild if you miss on one of your draft picks and now you need to go

get another one then you have Zach Levine in your back pocket and you can start it again but You're taking away fucking dribbles from Patrick Williams. You see what I'm saying? Trade Patrick Williamson. We're not on the same page. The problem with trading Zach Levine is his value hasn't been this low in years. Yeah. Like that article we talk about today, him and Damar having internal struggles.

And I feel like we've seen that writing on the wall since he got there. Like, yeah. Zach Levine was like to the moon. He was trending upwards. People were saying, oh, he's his next new young star. He finally made an all-star game or two. I can't remember how many. And then Damar came

Yeah Like he was being very highly regarded And then Damar came And like naturally his role is gonna be cannibalized By this guy who needs a ball in his hands Doesn't space the floor Like what the Bulls did was got him a co-star But really made Zach the sidekick

You know what I mean? Like they didn't bring him somebody that like Is made to optimize his game in any way So I can see why that would rub Zach the wrong way And has led to him not performing as well Obviously he's been injured as well But like his value right now So much lower than it would be without Demar for a season

So maybe you hold on to him And then wait Who knows? Yeah That is a good point Because if you start tanking And Zach's, you know And Zach's gonna go out

He's gonna do Zach things Maybe his numbers Jump back up to 24, 25 Maybe even 26 points a game And then you can flip them Yeah because like right now What would you get for Zach Levine right now? Like if the Knicks won to trade

For Zach Levine what would it be It wouldn't be the four five first round pick Hall that Donovan Mitchell required No No no It'd be like Barry in one first round pick maybe Maybe two yeah you can listen i'll give you cam reddish in a first

oh hell not i give you i'll give you cam reddish a first and evan fournier you you can get some you can get some money off your books get a first nasty trade disgusting go ahead and add that go ahead of that so now now let's play a little game think of their three biggest players we're gonna throw vuce which in there no vuzovitch is like you said playing like roy hibbert i'm gonna give him a rich man's calio leninic at best yeah what are we where are the best trade you can think of for these three players like where do you want i know we talked about last week a little bit well let's go over again where do you want to see zach levin go let's see droward rosen go let me see if i'm if i'm if i'm that if i'm

if if i'm talking about zach levine i think any offensive option to toronto makes sense yeah i can see that i i think toronto and their their entire offensive situation is not great and it's like if you can get somebody in there to help out van bleat and who can actually be counted on as a 20 point per game score in the in the back court because we know we know what siacum does but i think that trade might work for them yeah to get levin i think exactly means easy to trade like you can say he'd go to the mavericks that makes sense you could put him on numerous teams he just fits in a lot of places i think demar is tricky because his style of play just needs types of talent around him and the only name we've seen him linked to in rumors is the fucking

lakers who maybe they mean that happened i hope not as a lakers fan but i don't know where else it would be would it be the nix would they want demarison yeah like we can we can run through this said like yeah i'm i'm looking at the teams right all the teams right now and there's exactly viners is so easy to plug and play in a lot of systems around the NBA there's not a damn team of NBA that doesn't need a player of his skill set and caliber but for someone like demart And like you said, if we're just thinking about it, Risley's Denver Nuggets, Tunis, Suns, Pelicans, Clippers, Kings, Portland, Minnesota, Utah, Dallas, the Warriors, the Lakers.

Like, no of those teams in the West Coast need him. I was wondering where he was going to be done. Yeah, like none of these teams need him, dog. None of these teams. And in the, and in the east, like- Name them all, let's go. They said to Marr to Charlotte, to be honest. They said, why would they want him?

They should, they should send him there. Sean to replace Gordon Hayward like you know what I'm saying like Gordon Hayward does he's not really doing anything he's too good for that like no team that no bottom feeders and bring him in to just eat innings like he's still a good player he's in a weird spot yeah maybe he's just Lakers then maybe he just becomes a Laker if they touch there was a team to do it maybe the Utah Jazz to do it since they're like already okay and they have a boatload of picks and assets and they're like you know what fucking I'll throw you a fucking bone if no one's gonna offer you anything real I would do it if I was the Utah Jazz. just for vibes but wow the bulls they are they really suck they have three guys that need to be traded who have no value that like nobody exactly that's what i'm getting that's where to trade that's that's exactly i'm glad you said that that's what i've been trying to allude to is the levin sure we can trade him anywhere for first maybe two rusevich if we're going to get rid of him it's we have to give a picks because we've smith is a negative contract he's a negative ass demar just just so so little trade targets out there are teams that would want him like they're really fucked i guess it's

It is what it is. If they can't find a trade partner, they just need to send these guys home. Just tank for the year? Yeah. But you can't do that. They can't, like, they have to have a reason. What do you mean?

What do you mean they don't have a reason? Look at their record. That's the reason. Yeah, but they can't just be like, they're halfway there. They're halfway there. They got a fake reason, they're fake injuries.

They're at the, they're in the 11th seed right now. There are three games, they're three and a half games up on the piston for the worst record in the conference. They are on their way to tanking with, these guys and so you might as well say hey listen go home we're going to try and trade you

right we don't just be up front and say that and then you can tank in the process and you can find somebody who wants them yeah maybe it's like Miami would shoot for de rosen i doubt it it doesn't make sense with jimmy butler it's just two jimmy butlers that would be nasty i just want to see the kawai leon or demarder rosa dude the spacing with jimmy butler demarderosen and bam out of bile on the court yeah that's oh seven That's so sad. I think this might end with him in the Lakers, which I really don't fucking want. We can talk about that.

We can transition that. I'll talk about the Lakers a little bit because Anthony Davis is going to miss the next month with a foot injury that we thought it was an ankle sprain. Yeah, it is what it is. Thankfully, the timeline right now is a month, but there's some scared. Some people are scared might be worse than that. We'll see when the diagnosis comes out. Yeah. But I think this might end with him on the Lakers because that's where all the smoke has been.

Lakers fans want that because it's something. and it upgrades Rust to a player that's, like, good. Not to say, I mean, Russ has been better, but you know what I mean? Yeah. But like, it's such a bad fit. Why do they want to insist on putting a non-shooter guard next to LeBron and AD? I hate it. Well, you know what's going to happen, right?

What's going to happen? The Rosen might get traded to a place that is also trying to tank, and they just want to get the asset. And then they're going to send him home, buy him out, and he's just going to sign with the Lakers on the minimum. Well, that I would love. If we're going for free, then I would love it. That's what I can.

see happening and then you're going to end up with Russ and DeRosen lineups like that's that's what I mean no what team was to trade for DeRosen and get assets? DeRosan's not going to get salary dumped yeah what's his what's his contract that it's like 27 million a year yeah it's under

a max like he's not he's not he's like a salary dumped Vucevich that might happen no Vooch might which might happen I think but I think that with DeRosen I wouldn't be I think I would be like shocked I'd be like

hmm like like that's interesting that they did that but it wouldn't be I wouldn't be blown away if that ended up happening you know because I just don't see a way I just don't see a way where like they trade him if they do end up going down that route yeah well the bulls let's say nobody else wants to Rosen because it doesn't make sense the bulls will sooner keep him than salary dump him but even before that they would sooner just take the Lakers first wrong pick for him because Lakers would give them rust in the first that's like a no-brainer they would just take that before they salary dump them are the Lakers going to make the move yeah the lakers would do that i guarantee you they're stupid they would do that

i'm still not i'm still not confident in polinka to make any trade at this point yeah i'm confident he'll make a bad trade eventually and it would be too late and it'll be bad and then it's gonna not do anything helpful that that's funny let's think about this let's say he trades russ and a first-on-pick for de rosen and caruso let's say that's the deal is they have and they throw in a couple seconds because they'll fuck in the seconds yeah so it's russ a first-on-pick, two seconds, for Caruso de Rosen. And then that leaves them with Nunn and Pat Bev and one more first-on-pick. Let's say they flipped that for

who are people saying either Bogdan Bogdanovich or Buddy Heald. And they start, let's just say it in this scenario. It's Caruso, Derosen. Lakers fans are being Lakers fans again. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Why are you doing this right now? This is realistic. They've run it on these two-K trades.

I'm not done. I'm not done. Let's say they start off with Caruso, DeRose, Ex-Shuter LeBron and AD. Is that team even worth it? Is that a good team? Yeah, I would do it if I... Yeah, it's worth it for sure.

Would you... But is putting together this thought process and wasting your breath on this worth it? Knowing that you have... No, you're completely misunderstanding. You're misunderstanding from my point. My point is, this is the best case scenario for Lakers. If De Rosen wants to get out,

nobody else wants them, they can do this, and it's still mid. It's still probably not worth trading your future of 2029, 2027. Like, that's still not a fantastic team. If I was the Lakers, I would still do it too because you're never going to have this level of talent, aka LeBron and AD ever. Yeah.

At least not in the next like 10 years probably, I would bet that. So I would do, I would do it what I would do it just because the opportunity is there. Well, it's good. Yeah. Man, like, that's tough. I don't know if I, I don't know, that's tough because you're literally taking an L for the future. Yeah. I'm just saying if the best case scenario that is like wishful thinking for Lakers fan is built

run to Marta Rosen next to LeBron James. I'm not super excited about that. You know what I mean? Yeah, absolutely. If I'm the Lakers, I don't think that I do that. I don't think that I make these trades. I think that Anthony Davis's recent injury probably confirms a lot of things

that you were probably already thinking about and just saying, like, this guy just can't stay healthy. I mean, it's not a seasonning injury. I see what you mean, but it's, this is going to be one thing. This isn't a, you know, the coffin. It's just a foot injury for a month.

Like, it sucks, but he'll be back. Once again, though, he's going to be out for a significant amount of time. This is probably three straight years that Anthony Davis is going to be in street close for 20, 25 games. And it's just a month. That's only 10 games. Yeah, I see your point. I see your point. I see your, yeah.

Did you see it? Like, the time with injury, that looks, that was tough. Like, that's so unlucky. Like, he's flip got bent backwards in midair. He's the first bird NBA history to do that. Yeah, that's crazy. Breaking records. the whole unlucky that is to have that type of like foot sprain in mid-air like you just kick somebody too hard

like jesus when at one point for you because you are the most i guess positive person when it comes to anthony davis at what point do you just say yeah he's injury prone fucking six years ago he's injury prone what do you mean like i just the point is he is injury prone like it's not debatable it's just so then at what point do you say like we can't we can't do this he's never the point injury prone does not mean invaluable. There's a lot of injury-prone players. You deal with that fact

and you build around them and you build for scenarios in which you lose them and you have to do a better job of building your roster on that. They traded for Russell Westbrook because they knew he's injury-prone and they knew LeBron's old.

So they say, let's get this guy who can be an innings eater and then when we don't have our stars he can come in and keep our team afloat and win regular season games. That was a thought process. The mistake was they chose somebody who was fucking bad at playing

next to your stars, so the point of having him when they're not there is irrelevant. But they know this. Like everybody knows this that Anthony Davis is injury prone. No, I understand that. At a certain point, what I'm saying is you might have to, you might have to move off

of that because- I know your point. It's just like, what are you talking about? You play the game to, the point of team building is to build for a best-case scenario where things work out and your vision is aligned. Jimmy Butler is injury-prone. Kevin Durant's injury-prone. These people miss 25, 30 games a year too.

But nobody says this because they're not in the Lakers and they're not soft, as everyone says. You just have to build around that. You know what I mean? That's part of the reality of building around stars. Like, a lot of stars injury prone. Kevin, Kevin Dore, and I've also, I've also said prior that I think that the Nets, that, that KD might not be on the Nets in four years, but that's, that's neither here or that.

For the Lakers, though, I think that it's something that you also have to think, because the core that you have, at least for the Nets, you had, have Kyrie Irving, right? And there's whatever continuity there. For LeBron, LeBron is also injury prone, and you have Anthony Davis, who at the the next season, it's going to be 30 years old. He's played 36 games. Two years ago, he played 40 games last year. He's going to miss a lot of times this year.

And so for that to be either the player that you want to ascend to be your best star, and let's not forget, the Lakers suck, right? So it's not like you're doing all of this for a good, for a good situation, right? So I got a question. The Nets are fourth in the east right now. The Lakers suck. So why would you pay that tax for a bad team? So, Isaac, if you are not willing to trade away those two first round picks for that potential great scenario that you had in place a couple of minutes ago, why wouldn't you just trade away?

Why wouldn't you trade away Anthony Davis right now if you're not trying to, if you're not willing to go all in? What is, okay, so what does they even mean? People say this, like trade Anthony Davis now. One, where do you trade him? What do you get from him? What's your vision with that? You want to get another starback that can be around LeBron and try to win now? The goal is swapping Anthony Davis for, this team sucks, right?

If you swap out Anthony Davis for a worst star They're still gonna suck. Like they suck when he's on the court This isn't gonna make what difference does that make Why was the reason to trade him besides he gets hurt? Like that's not there's no vision again Trade everybody for assets I've been saying I've been saying this trade everybody again but you're not gonna trade LeBron James like be realistic like You're not you guys are playing two game mode you're not gonna trade LeBron So what's the goal here? You don't know me My thing is that what is it? If you're not trading Anthony Davis and of course LeBron they go in

going nowhere like what are you doing just chilling if you what should they do sunset yeah well what what they're doing so their POV of what they're planning to do by not making trades is next summer they're going to have max cap space and russell westworth expires so you could say like realistically if we're giving the benefit of the doubt they can go star hunting or sign role players and built around them without having rust be this arbitrous of a contract as there yeah that's a very real possibility you just wait it out like you just you waste a year it is what it is but you still have anthony davis to go build around the foreseeable future and like i said If you trade him, what trade are you making, I guess, LeBron, a better running mate?

It's not about LeBron. It's not about LeBron. Okay, well, the realistic part of the Lakers is they're not going to do that because they'd rather have a start to build around and continue to build a team around Anthony Davis, which is like, you know, Anthony Davis is don't grow on trees. But you're saying the point is in LeBron. It should be because we're living in reality, and the point is building around LeBron while he's still a contending level player.

True. So, like, we can't say that's not the point because if we're dealing in reality, that is absolutely the point for them. yeah that is true from their perspective but at the same time i just feel like if like to stop wasting time and get straight to the point you're just you're just you're not wasting time with a brown on your team you know i mean they did a bad job but like let's say they do punt this year which is like probably what's going to go to sadly for all of us they are going to have that cap space next year to build around hopefully the bronze last really good year who the hell are they going to get next year

i heard the free agents are kind of ass next year the the what's going to happen it's kind of curving that's what they're waiting for is to sign him when he inevitably leaves a lakers it leaves a nets it's carrie irving that that's the pie in the sky that they're waiting for okay then if i was them and if your vision which i like that's i like the son of that does come true when it happens and them waiting out this year and being just fucking trash like they were earlier in the season and okay for right now so far this season um then i will go ahead and wait it out but that has to be the goal that has to be 100 yeah that's what i'm saying like if that's their goal right now like we give them

a lot of shit because they're wasting a year of LeBron and AD, which like they are, which sucks, because LeBron's looking old already. But if next year they have Kyrie Irving, they have their taxpayer middle-level exceptions, they can get another decent tier role player to replace Lonnie Walker. Then they have AD LeBron. They're still going to... Boston Reeves.

Like, there's obviously a much higher ceiling there with Kyrie stepping into rust issues and not losing any assets around them. That is true. That is very true. But, hey, maybe this is a good time to go ahead and talk about the Nets because, like, is that... I don't know if Kyrie were actually staying on the Nets.

I don't know if, like, Josiah would be willing to give him another lengthy contract or anything in that nature. But, like, the Nets are fucking on a, what, they're on a win streak right. I think six games. And they're fucking killing it right now. Yeah, good transition. Look at you. You're a natural.

Yeah, I'm in my dad right now. Yeah, ever since the Nets made the coaching change, they've been a very respectable team. Donovan, what do you think was why? What's your main takeaway? Yeah. They actually can play a little bit of defense. Like, they're not, they're not just.

trash on defense now 13th for the year now which is absolutely insane considering that they were they were going back and forth between 29th and 30th for a majority of the beginning of the year and if you have Kevin Durant and you have Kyrie Irving and those guys are going out and getting buckets as long as you are passable on defense you're going to have a chance at every single game and so they've been able to kind of turn everything around Ben Simmons also doesn't look as trash as he did At the beginning of the year? He was looking really good and then got hurt.

Most of this finish he could have been with him hurt or just reintegrating. Like, they haven't even gotten the good Ben Simmons that was coming back around before he got hurt. So that should give us, like, a lot of hope that if they're already turning around without him being what he was for that five-game stretch, once he gets his feedback under him after this knee injury, they're going to be looking pretty nice. Yeah. I, listen, the Nets, they're doing, they're doing the thing. They have a very interesting schedule coming up. They have a couple games that, like, I'm. I'm really going to, I'm going to be looking at them for, and I'm going to pull up their schedule right now.

Like they have before Christmas, or actually, they don't play on Christmas, but their next three games. They play at home against the Warriors against, again, without Steph, so that's going to be a little weird. But then they host the Bucks. They host the Bucks go on the road to Cleveland, and then they go on the road to Atlanta. And I think that those, that three game stretch is really, really going to define kind of everything that they've done since Jock Bonn has taken over. But they've had this time to jail. They've had this time to make sure that their defense is intact, that they're starting to get on the same page on both ends of the floor.

Now, once we start playing the big boy teams in the east, what's going to happen? My thing about the Nets, like, mine is the Hawks. They're not a big boy. Hey, hey, relax. Why am I catching straight? Right. But my thing about the Nets is like, I'm happy for them that they're going ahead, that they're going ahead and having these, this little cool win streak.

But I'm looking at their game log right now and not even, without looking at their game, I'm just watching some of their games and seeing Kyrie Irving hit a game winner against the Taunner Wrafters. Their biggest win, like the biggest lead that they've had at the end of these games is like three points.

They've been winning these games by three points. There's not no blowouts. It's not like by any large margin or anything like that whatsoever. So, I mean, take it for what you will. But it's a good time, but I'm not, like, jumping up and down. To answer your question,

I think they go back to what they were, supposed to be this season with all the random cards they were dealt with. But shout out to them now. Yeah, I mean, you play the team in front of you and you take care of business, which is what they've been doing. So, yeah, I think I agree with both of you, is that they've been good. It's a reason to be encouraged, but we'll see how they look at this upcoming stress that Donovan talked about.

But, I mean, I don't know. Like, if their defense could be 13th, like, they have the ceiling they need on offense. Like, I don't think anybody doubts that. Like, with the competent defense, do you think they could be, like, a swingers chance in the playoffs of beating anybody? Oh, absolutely I would I would never pick them

against Boston in the playoffs as currently constructed after last year there's no chance I wouldn't do that I would never pick them in the playoffs against Milwaukee as currently constructive

the bigot the two teams that I think that they would be able to have a chance would be against Cleveland and would be against Philly but even a healthy Philadelphia

if Tyree's Maxi is there and they have 20 points per game if Joel Embed is there and healthy he is going to kill Ben Simmons and Nick Laxton on the on the inside he's going to have a prime chat series if they end up playing in the in the playoffs there's nobody there's just nobody on Brooklyn that can stop Joel and beat so I don't think that I would pick Philly against I mean I don't think I would pick Brooklyn against Philly You know it's funny look I'm looking at the East standings now which I haven't done in like the past week for most of the season so far it's been like weird because the Sixers were like the 10 seed the Nets break the 12 seed the Hawkbrook to three seed and it was like fuck this is everything so topsy-turvy but things are really like leveled out to like almost

exactly what most was predicted this year like now we're seeing bucks number one celtics number two they're basically tied cleveland number three nets four six years five knicks inexplicably number six the heater back in the mix after being garbage and number seven and the hawks are eight which is like where a lot of me and donovan predicted they'd be yep yeah i told i told you both validation we're gonna get we're gonna get rid of nathan milan soon all right don't worry about that. Yeah, all the mid,

the one surprising thing is the Raptors are 10, they've been in free fall. I told you the Waptors weren't going to be on a shit. Like, they're not good. They tricked you guys last year.

What do you mean? They've just been mid. Like, we thought, they were like, let's get into this. They were mid plus. They've been mid plus

for the last like two years or whatever. And so, they're going to be fine. This is, this is results confirmation bias. They're going to be fine. They're asked right now because OG and Obie's been hurt.

Scotty's in a sophomore slump. And Fred Van Vindleet had a couple we stretch where he couldn't shoot a fucking lick. He was on a Trey Young's shooting split where he was shooting 25% from three. That's obviously not going to sustain. Another string. Yeah. At Pascal Siaka missed like a month. Like, they're going to be fine.

They're in a tough stretch right now, but they're going to be okay. I can promise you that. They're terrible. They're dog water. They're not going to be fine. They have no future. They need to go ahead and do Pascal Seaccom right. I'm in my haters right now. The most random slans.

Why do you hate the Raptors? What do they do to you? Shout to the Raptors. I like their team, but their fans are kind of wild. What does that mean? what does that mean their fans are wild they're crazy

they're OD you said talking about you said their fans are wild I said what does that mean and you said their fans are wild can we get

a deeper dive please my deeper dive is their OD and they do too much okay I love the breakdown okay

either way they'll be fine friend of Lee was on a uncharacterically terrible stretch like that'll be all right we could talk about

Scottie Barnes a little bit because we did a lot TikTok's over the summer where we we were talking about him in the same caliber as the top young players. For a good reason. He was great last year, Ricky of the year. He looked to be one of the most versatile players in the league coming up.

He's been so ass this year, man. He's been trash. We look silly for putting him next to like Anthony. Who's weak? You two. You guys. You guys. He did. He was, he was, he was hating on Sky. I told, I told Isaac at the very early stages of the Deep Three, I told this man,

I am trading, I think were doing like a victor rambayana thing and i told you i would trade victor i would trade scotty barnes for victor in a fucking heartbeat and you look at yeah i mean it's victor it's not a bold take but you looked at me crazy though you looked at me as if it was i think we all agreed we traded him for victor it was just like damn but you had some hesitancy and i'm putting you into the ball for this goddy barnes but i mean we all still agree you'd trade for victor wagner wagner it's fucking victor you don't get brownie points for saying one the best prospects of all time it's probably better than scotty barnes Congratulations.

I'm getting... I'm getting... I'm getting... You're taking a victory lap like 28 games into the season. Absolutely. I'm one of those. Anyways, listen, Scotty...

Scotty sucked. He's been really bad. And I think one of the like more shocking things about Scotty is that he's said a lot of plays where he's looked lost on defense, which is like, hey, listen,

like if you're not going to do anything else, I'm going to need you to lock up on somebody. And he's had a lot of plays where he hasn't, you know, he hasn't navigated screens that too well. He has, like, his on-ball defense hasn't been as good as it was last year. So that's what would be concerning for me if I'm a Raptors fan. The offense, the offense is fine. I think that that's going to come and go.

I think he's going to end up getting better. But if he can't do- It's a shot-making issue. Yeah, but if he can't do his base level of, like, what got him here, that would be concerning for me. My thing is, even in his freshman year, I mean, in his rookie year, He wasn't even fantastic on defense. He was, if anything, like, that was viewed as a weakness for him as a rookie end.

For a prospect, like Scotty Barnes, yes, it definitely was. For a prospect like Scotty Barnes. It was absolutely not a weakness. What are you talking about? Like Scottie Barnes coming out of college, that was one of his biggest boys and one of the main attractions to him is, of course, a ball handling, but of course, like the defense as well. Defense, he wasn't that great. He was good, but he wasn't. Yeah, he was good.

It's a rookie. His offense. Huh? He's a rookie. He was good. Like, if you have a real thing, a rookie player is a good defender, then that's a plus.

And his defense wasn't as good as expected for someone like him. I don't know about that. He was a rookie. Most rookies, even in the defensive prospect aren't good right away. Yeah, of course.

In general, like my point is, like, my point is like he looks even worse as a player because he doesn't have it on offense in sphere so far. His defense wasn't like that. So let's talk about what that means.

His playmaking is just as good if not better. His assist percentage is up to 20%, which is really good. The main differences is just shot making. His mid-range shots I went from from

38% to 31, so it was already not very good and he's just not making those shots. His rim is from 71 to 67. Do we think he's going to just be a worse shooter than he was as a rookie year going forward? Probably not. So it's just a sophomore slump.

It's just shot making that has been as good. Once that gets back to the normal one he looks like he did last year, continues to let him develop, like he'll be fine. Like, the things that are concerning right now aren't things that you expect to be concerning going forward. Yeah, absolutely.

I don't think, I think a lot of actors fans are kind of over-exaggerating. If they, like, expected to continue to go on this linear growth with the team that's not designed for linear growth, then you're going to go ahead and drive yourself crazy, which is what they're all doing right now. And I don't know true about it all.

Sophomore slums happen all the fucking time. Okay. You were just saying he's fucking worse than shit. What do you mean? I got to tell what you think. He was worse than shit. I'm just saying, like, You took a victory lap saying that he was trying, saying they're like, oh, I'm big a side.

Do you hate Scottie or not? Look, I stand on it. Are you pro Scotty or anti-Scottie? I'm anti-Scotti people. I'm anti-Scotti fans, not people. My bad. He's men, he hates Canadians. This is xenophobia.

Okay. Question for you all, though, because we did this with, we did this with the Knicks and them, like, if they regret not trading for Mitchell. Do the Raptors regret not trading for Mitchell or for Kevin Durant? For Mitchell, yes. For Mitchell, I'll say yes. For Katie, not. For the Raptors, it was just that the Cleveland Cavaliers came in and offered five first-on-pics. They can't do that.

Like, the only team that could have done that is the Knicks. Like, they just got unlucky. Yeah. This comes down to it. They just got out of bid. Like, it is what it is. Like, do you think they should have gave up Scotty Barnes for Donald and Mitchell? That's what it would have took.

It seemed like. I would have, I think I would have done it. Probably not. Come on. Scotty Barnes is still going to be a great player. Like, I mean, yeah, but like, it's going to be a good player. It's Mitchell. It's Donovan Mitchell.

Okay. I don't think they regret it. I think they're in a slump right now, but Yeah. The difference between them and like the Knicks or Bulls where we're talking about teams that should regret things they've done is their long-term outlook is fucking horrific. The Raptors O.G. and Obie is coming to his own this year.

Pascal Seaccombe was a top 10 player before he got hurt. It's been great since he came back. Fredman is still Fred just in a shooting slump. The issue is that they've had positive signs. Yeah. The issue is they've had positive signs, but they did have a lot. come together at the same time so they at least have some hope going forward right yeah other teams don't have that so i think the raptors are still pretty confident

at what point do you get nervous about the raptors then this year i don't know not never because like they're who cares don't yeah like if they have a disappointing season and they're like the agency whatever so be it they had bad season injuries happen slums happen but like they're not a team that's like in championship contention mode you know what i mean it's about building for the future around these forwards they have exactly whatever happens with them this season for the rest of the season all you can do is when you have your picks you hopefully it's not championship or bust for the raptors like they're fine yeah absolutely but now thinking about it i think oh man not not cashing out or or like missing out on the potential opportunity that

was there for donovan mitchell hurts because could you imagine ogy donovan michael and siacum god damn ogy would have been in the trade oh gee would have been out of the trade yeah it was so the it was the it was the same package as poorly that were like around the kd trades which was It was like O.G. Gary Trent and some picks, which got outbid. So the only way for them to outbid the cabs would have been like throw Scotty Barnes in there, which they were never going to fucking do. That's too much, yeah. So it would have been, you know, Trent, OG and picks.

So you would have been looking at Fred and Donovan, which once again, undersized backcourt with Scotty. I don't even know. I guess Pascal and Coloco. I don't know who else they'd start in there. Yeah, that team is pretty thin. Yeah. It is what it is. It's rough out there.

It's rough out there. there for Canada. Yeah, it's all right. They're fine. Yeah, he's a Laker fan. He's seen worse. Yeah, I would love to have Scotty Barnes and Pascal Seacom is my future at OG Anobie.

Yeah. That 2019 championship with the sham. The sham is a blip. It's a bridge championship. I can't. I'm really so mad that they won that championship. Just respect greatness. That was great for best.

Does just respect Kauai cementing itself in history? Yeah, that was great for basketball. Just respect it. Kauai is Kauai might be the like weirdest Hall of Fame player of all time Where I

Weirdest legacy Half of his career In terms of like Hall of Fame career It's like invalid Like his whole His entire Hall of Fame Invalidated

It's off for three years It's a great three years It's like his fault about injury That shit I think three years shouldn't put you in the Hall of Fame Man You think Kauai Leonard shouldn't be a hall of famer I think it's a conversation

That is a nasty hot take that you have I don't think I don't I don't think I don't think Kawhi Lender should be first ballot no Wow, it's not his fault he got injured He's been great like no I don't Even the even the years before Even the years before the championship His San Antonio years

He had one like oh wow Year in San Antonio And then all the other ones He was a role play He's had three three and a half years in his prime I don't think he's a Hall of Fame I don't think he's a first ballot Hall of Famer

Okay I mean yeah the story's still not written So like we'll see how the rest of his where it goes how much longevity he has obviously we don't think it's going to be much but we'll see yeah it's like what you're saying isn't crazy but like great he's been injured what point are you proving sucks yeah he shouldn't be a first battle hall to famer and that and that the basketball hall of fame is the easiest hall of fame to get into and i think we might be doing it a disservice if we put him for the ballot damn you said disservice that's all right well i'm not going to go to bet arguing about kawai lillard's hall of fame candidacy you got it i think we can't

transition now to hit these TikTok topics. Let's do it. We're at a cool 58 minutes. Let's talk about some TikToks. First thing we're going to do, I want you guys to pull up the list you have. We're going to do another draft.

Tried and true. We're going to do a draft with only role players. Let me get my pencil right. Let me get my pencil ready. I'm going to write down my names. Got my draft sheet. Let's go. Fuck.

So we just recorded, we had recorded an episode in advance. So I went first last time. so we're gonna mess up the order a little bit so we're just gonna keep going as if that episode was from last week so I was third who went second last time

I did so I'm first okay most first Donovan second I'm third okay let's draft let's draft NBA lineups with only role players and we're going just current role players yeah current role players all right let's go

cool all right first pick I got McAll bridges fuck bro I was really hoping you had a three I just going to eat it, eat it, eat it. All right. My first pick, give me, dang, this is tough, this is tough. Give me, I don't know, I don't know who to pick.

I don't know who to pick anymore. This is the hardest one we've ever done. I know, it really is. Give me Marcus Smart. Fuck! I'll take the two players I wanted. Yeah. Damn.

There we go. All right, let me get Marcus Smart. I'm my one. That is tough. I hate being third. This is the worst one to go third in Actually, you know what, never mind, I'm fine Give me OG Ann Anobi and Miles Turner

Oh, Miles Turner Building an elite defense right away Okay, cool I like that All right, so Is Tobias Harris a role player? No, I'm pretty sure No, we're not captivize Harris

How? He hasn't won't shit in this career You can't average 20 points per game What do you mean? He's average 17 He only averaged 21 once in his career. He might, I don't know. He's a role player. You're trying to, you're trying to screw me right now.

Not really, I mean, you don't want to see you in. He's his own team with a lot of ball handlers. I'm sure. If you want to have Tobias Harris, I guess, I'm not going to argue your death, but. Yeah, he's a role player, bro. No, would you, what is he then? Fine, go ahead, go ahead. Go ahead, go ahead.

Go ahead, go ahead. Go get Tobias. So, I got Tobias Harris. And then. Wait, isn't it? It's Donovan's pick. What'd you pick on you? No, no, Mo gets to double up. Yeah.

Who'd you pick? I got Marcus Smart. No, who'd you get after that? I went third. Oh, I got skipped. You get skipped. I got skipped. Wow. So most pick is invalid.

I got protection. I got protection. You can't do that. I'm by a David's. No, I'm by. That's a vetoed. I want to buy. Where are the rules and regulations?

This is not in my contract. It's your fault for skipping them. It's completely your fault. No way. Yeah. pick somebody else moe so you have device Harris are you serious right now yeah I have him he's on my team right yeah

keep it moving wait so wait don't you have two picks no you do oh I do and you can't pick device Harris with either one of them give me a 80 adre aton he's a role player no he's not no he's not he's never made an all-star game dude shut up

DeAndre adrian is not a role player you know he's not a role player you know good and well that DeAndre a game is not a role player you can average 24th a game you can't be an all-star and you can't be like a foundational piece Alex Caruso give me Alex Caruso

cool okay I respect that all right Alex Caruso cool and I go again right yep all right so I got Alex Caruso and for my big

I think this dude's kind of nice kind of underrated I'm gonna go for Zubak okay You can have Zubosh

Fuck y'all I'm sorry I need a That was the most genuine laughter I was the most genuine laughter I was I was prepared

You fucks me over With Tobias Harris You can have that You can have me over Give me I'm I need a big Give me Brooke Lopez Okay

I like that big Damn Yeah you screwed me dog I ain't watch You said Zubbatch You need that word Zubbache is nice I don't have him

You can have him He's nice, though. I guess. Is DeAndre Russell a role player? No. Look at that contract. And he was an all-star, too. No.

Come on, he was not an all-star. He was not an all-star. He was an all-star reserve four years ago. We're not using that card. If I can't get Deandre, he can't get DeAndre Russell. It doesn't make any sense. I'm asking y'all, is he a role player? No.

Without you being a hater, is he a role player? He was an All-Star He was an All-Star four seasons ago Three teams ago in a different role He's not a current-day All-Star He wouldn't be an All-Star of the rest of his career I don't think he counts Okay, if it doesn't count, I don't care

I'm just asking I don't think he counts But the All-Star logic is awful I'm going to post-mover I don't give a fuck That's horrible logic Okay, so I got OG And I got Miles Turner

Got my wing and I got my center Who's the best point guard available If I can't pick DeAngelo Brooke Lovers is a good pick Yeah He got Tobias and Brooke You're a bastard for that dude

Listen 37 wins on the way You know how we do that's funny Okay so I'm gonna pick first off Give me Kyle Kuzma That's my power forward That's nice That's nice

Is that a great season? Yeah Don't do it Don't do it Let's see I need basically on my two guard spots Yeah Shooting guards easy

Who's the best point guard available if I can't pick Dilo this is a tough spot to be in because there's not a lot of starting point guards that are like role player like Simon isn't a role player anymore is he? No

no he's averaging over 20 so I can't pick him hurry up of a big dude Jaylon Brunson isn't one he's mad he's mad I'm taking my time just because you're pissy Kate cutting him I'm just kidding

he's obviously not a role player yeah you know what I'll just take I'll take Kevin Herder Okay That's good Okay That's good

For my pick Give me Buddy healed That's good I'd rather I've heard of Than buddy healed I think

That's nice Okay That's cool I need I need some type of shooting though Okay So I have

Um Zubotch on my team Alice Caruso and Macal Bridges So Jordan Clarkson is a role player Give me Jordan Clarkson Okay you can have

Jordan Clarkson Yeah give me I got Crusoe Clarkson I got ridges and then zoom I saw I'm looking for one more player and I Hey I would like to interject you cannot take Jordan Clarkson he is averaging 20 points per game this season Hey let's go no you can't do that you said that we said that before this before the episode we said if the average is 20 he cannot be taken Those exactly what he said are you serious right now he's averaging 20 all right let me get jordan cars down the way whatever cool I got herb jones all right I got herb okay

Say that again for the TikTok Because you just fucking threw it out there Like it's nothing Say I got Herb Jones Yeah So I got Herb Jones Alright Okay

Herb Jones You know the defender I like that Him and Macau's a crazy combo Yeah him Macal Caruso You ain't scoring on shit That's nice Too bad you have no creators

78 points a game Yeah So I need someone who got that fucking fire on him right now dog Damn You know saying I'm not gonna do this But Westbrook would be interesting

I wonder if you'll get picked up By any of y'all Probably not We're not counting Westbrook, come on He's off the bench What do you mean? Shut up Stop trying to bend rule

It's having a dick We're not picking respite Okay So I got Caruso Herb Bridges and Zubach So I either need a four Or I need a two Four three

I need a big body Damn Y'all put me in a fucking pickle And y'all's trying to take away Oh my goddamn picks But it's okay You know these guys Are fucking role players

It's okay You know why You know why with my final pick I'm deciding to draft Cole Anthony Okay He's yours

You're making me laugh You made me laugh on this one You cheated me out of my picks dog You skipped me You literally skipped me You didn't say anything You skipped me Why didn't you speak up

I wanted to see how far you would take it Anyways With my last pick Give me Aaron Gordon At the four Oh, that's a great pick I didn't even think about it in Gordon Yeah

All I have love is my point guard Give me Spencer Dinwiddie That's good That's good I just ran y'all out of the park I'm sorry What, excuse me? You have the worst team by far

Your team is fucking cheese No, I do not No, my team Let's say our team's out loud I got Spencer Dinwiddie Kevin Herger Ogen and Ogen and Obie Kyle Kuzma

and Miles Turner That seems so balanced What am I missing You might have the best team But I don't have my car I got, I got Marcus Smart, Buddy Hill, Tobias Harris, Aaron Gordon, Brooke Lopez. Holy shit.

I got Alex Crusoe, Herb Jones, McAll Bridges. Who the fuck I started I get? You getting Victor Women Yama next year. That's what you get it. I don't even need to finish my those, bro. And then I got Zulach. Fuck. Yeah, I'm screwed.

Donovan has no, like, offensive creator. She has no passing on his team. Just a lot of guys. Marcus, Mark, he took a couple steps. Took a couple steps. Great. A nice 37% from the field. Shout to him.

I didn't need him to pass. I just need to. Listen, Tobias Harris is going to trick everybody again and scored 22 points on this team. It's going to be amazing. Wait, wait. If I couldn't select Jordan Clarkson, why do you have to buy his hairs? He averaged 20. Is he average 20?

He can't be average 20 right now. Fuck. Ha-ha. Whatever. You still probably shouldn't have picked Tobias Harris, but who cares? fucking device here that's funny okay

so the next video I'm gonna send you guys some lists we're gonna guess we're gonna guess rosters by the 2K ratings so let me send you the first one

make sure I don't highlight the name because that would be really embarrassing if I just gave you guys the answers okay so here's the first list of players

all right so we got a point guard at 86 it's a very it's a very well-balanced roster Guess which NBA team this is By the 2K ratings All right

So we got a very well balanced roster We got a star center At 87 Star point guard at 86 We're really real generous In the star here at 86 What's this one two combo looking like I know

I think Actually no I'm not going to do that So you got 86 and an 87 center So who are one of the best centers In the NBA to you right now Donnie?

Yukits it's not him it's not yokech or in b because he has to be 87 that um i don't know i don't know if 87 qualifies is one of the best in the league but go ahead one of the better senator let him cook this is a good ass i'm trying to think i'm trying to think who are the who are the best like one five can we pull up NBA teams just to see the logos yeah i don't care right that's what i'm doing i just have i just have to see the logos yeah one of the best this was this was a little Because there's a lot of mid around them those mid players could be anybody in two yeah for a second. I want to think like oh could this be Miami but fuck no this is definitely not Miami

Um, you know what this could be this could be this could be this is toronto Raptors? No, it's not the Toronto Raptors Okay actually don't look at NBA lineups. I feel I'm done don't look at it be logos and maybe it's more fun if you do that Okay, no logos. Okay, cool because it might be little too easy. It's probably a little too easy you can just look at it and oh This has this might be um I'm the end of Pacers It's not the Pacers Fuck I don't think Miles Turner is in 87 I can tell you that

Yeah Is it Hmm I'm trying to think about mid I can't But we have Who's buns That's what I'm saying

I mean the shooting guard Is that is an 80 So like they have a little bit of scoring there Week points is the three and the four Yeah Ah Who's three and four I'll say

If you're trying to think about Who are good not great point guards in the center Surrounded by mid It shouldn't be that hard Good not great I mean they're 86-87 They're not fucking superstars Yeah that is

Oh this has to be dear I mean the Sacramento Kings This is the Sacramento Kings Yeah That's good That's good Yeah I did that shit

I did that Good job Mo Bean team Let's go Next one I'm coming with them I'm coming with the hard ones they had. No easy superstars to point out.

Yeah, that was good as fuck. Damn. What about this team? 89, 84, 79, 83. This is a good team. Is this the Toronto Raptors? Damn, that was fast. First guess.

This is the Toronto Raptors. Damn, you were in your bag. Yeah. Yeah. Let's go. Took them 20 seconds. Yeah. Just well-rounded.

All right. Who's next? What about this team? Oh, this team is ass. Dude, this has to be, whoa, 95, 95, 96. Is this the Los Angeles Lakers? Yes. Yeah.

Yeah. You're on, you're on, you're on point. You're on point. That one was kind of easy. That was easy. Yeah. That's funny. There's one team that has this.

They suck so bad. 80s still in 94, though. That's crazy. You say you should be higher? Yeah, he should be a fucking 97, the way he playing. 97. Love that. Let me say the hook one more time

Guess these NBA teams By their 2K ratings You know I gotta put on a little TikTok voice Yeah You feel me All right We got one next But no we got a few more

We got like three more We're rolling We gotta get a bunch Let's say one game of 20 questions You know we've been doing this lately It's real fun Last time just me and Donovan went Moe let's get 20 questions with you

hosting it All right 20 questions, cool To make this easier I already have a player in my mind I'm going to say Yeah, all right I got the player All the time, right?

Um, yeah, all time. Okay, go ahead and say the hook. Let's talk again. Y'all got 20 questions to guess the NBA player I'm thinking of or guess this NBA player? I'm going to give y'all 20 questions to guess the NBA player that I'm thinking of. Say to get, say y'all got 20 questions

to guess this NBA player. Y'all got 20 questions to get this, y'all got 20 questions to guess this NBA player. Cool. Is he a guard? Yeah. Okay. is his primary team in the eastern conference yeah okay eastern guard is he currently playing

yeah okay that's helpful nice um is his primary team in the central division i don't know what are the what is the central division bucks pacers bulls calves pistons no no is he a starter yeah okay is a starter Okay, there's only so many Eastern starting point guards. This is going to be easy. Okay, what is he, is he under six feet tall? Well, hold on. Under six feet, why would you ask that? He's not under six feet.

And also, Isaac, you said point guards, right? I said guards. Okay, guards cool. Yeah, okay. No, anyways, no, he's not under six feet. Okay, so he's not a, under six feet is such a wild number to pick. There's only so many guards. I thought, I thought he was, for that question.

I thought he was going for Brunson. That's a good one. So it's probably a shooting guard. Is he a good shooter? Yeah. Okay. Good shooting guard in the east. Is he a good defender?

I'll say so, yeah. Okay. Two-way player? Two-way player in the east? Wait, how many questions is that? I haven't been counting. Holy shit. Eight, I'm counting.

Okay, cool. Wait, I'm going to take a guess. Is this Drew Holiday? Nope. Nine. Not a bad guess. Okay. has he made it has he made an all-star game in the last few years no okay oh okay not an all-star

oh this should this should be simple then let's go ahead and look at these rosters whoa whoa whoa y'all looking at rosters not rosters not roosters I mean to say that I meant logos hey man I didn't mean some rosters I'm obviously not looking at roster I think you just blew your cover we got I have logos pulled up I always have logos pulled up that's funny all right he hasn't been also in recent years it's not Jimmy Butler Jim Butler is also not a shooting guard The two-way player in the east He's over six feet

He wouldn't call Tyrese Maxie a good defender would he Maybe He might I don't think so He might He hasn't made it also in recent years He's probably not a Is his Marcus Smart?

Damn, yeah Let's go. Coming in cluelg. It's too easy. Yeah, that was nice. I think current is way easier. Current is way easy. Current is way easy.

Current makes easy as fuck. Yeah. It's it. Then you got worked. Hey, what can I say? The shit comes easy. Yeah, good shit. All right, what's next?

What's next? Next up. I'm going to name some teams. How do I phrase this? What grade would you give the Celtics for how bad... What grade would you give the Celtics for how their season has gone so far? They get an A, easy. Yeah, A plus, plus.

After there were some crazy ass... Not plus plus. A plus plus. Why not? Because they've started to fall off. They lost their one seed recently. But they're still... But Jason Tiam hasn't been playing, and he... Yeah, he has been catching...

They have been catching L's. But still, just with the... But still with them losing their starting center, Robert Williams during the summer to injury, whatever the fuck. And then also all those crazy ass allegations, or not allegations, all those craziest things that actually happen within their organization and them just being so dominant off the rip and looking like they've not missed a step whatsoever and hasn't let anything gotten in their way, A plus plus, easy.

Yeah, between Robert Williams injury and the coaching situation, they had every reason to fall off. And they're probably the championship favorite at this point and might have the MVP on their team. Absolutely. Okay. Easy A. What about the Lakers? D?

I mean, I don't give them. I think they started out this season extremely rough. And now they're actually watchable. So I give them a solid C plus. Are they watchable? Yeah, they're watching. Yeah, yeah. I'm going to give them a C.

They've been bad. They're like, we expected them to be bad. They've just been what you expect, right? Like, nobody thought they're going to be good. And obviously they started off in a fucking whole 2 and 10. But with AD coming back and being amazing, they've started to at least come up and they're fighting for play. playoff range fighting for playing range now we couldn't say that a few weeks ago exactly now

now russ is coming off the bench and i don't see him hitting the side of the backboard every every god damn game this is definitely a seat yeah they're what you thought they'd be they're not below expectations yes d d the 13 and 7th they're not a good team they're not but they're supposed to be a bad team is bad surprise surprise yeah they're not ass but they're not dick so you know it is what it is d what about the pacers I'll give them like a B-plus. They've really surprised a lot of people. Tyrese is making that jump.

They're firmly in the playoff conversation. So B-plus, good shout-out to Indiana. Tyrese is a budding star, top 20 player in the NBA, potentially. Nemhard looks like a great pickup as a rookie. Miles Turner is coming alive without a big next to him. Everything's been positive for them. And you can't forget the second, the second, and you can't forget the second of the rookie of the year race, Bennett Matherin

He's a fucking whole ass dumby Yeah Yeah Pat's had no real expectations This is an easy B I'm gonna give it an A Honestly I don't think there's anything wrong with them I guess I mean I guess they can have a B

Because maybe you'd want them to tank To get one more star in there But they'd be great No no I wouldn't want them If they could play 500 ball With this really young club I would rather them do that Yeah same I think they've been great

I want to what the Warriors Actually let me say the hook Because this is going to be a different video. I bet. What grade would you give the Warriors for how the season has gone so far? I give them probably C-minus. That's generous, honestly. Yeah. See, I just like, listen.

I think it's a fucking D-minus. I think the expectation was go back-to-back championships. So they're barely even, are they in the playoffs right now? Like, they're fucking bad. I know. They're 11 right now because I'm going to have to, probably, I'm giving them damn near a F, but I'm going to give them a D-minus because they have Steph Curry. But punching the shit, you got D-Mond Green, punch. you know, fucking young star player.

Yeah, you can give him an F. James Wiseman is in the fucking G-Leod. Exactly. James We're fighting for their lives to get fucking 15 minutes a game. Yeah, this is an athlete. Yeah. They can be an F, honestly. Between the drama, James Wiseman has a negative trade value now.

You have no defense, no good role players above the age of 23. Like, they have not been what you want them to be. Can't win a goddamn road game for your life. This is embarrassing. All right. Get Steph some help. All right. Y'all convince me.

Y'all convince me. F-min. Fuck it. Yeah. Dang. What about the Cavs? A. A minus.

I would say A minus. Donovan Mitchell is just dropped into this system. Effortlessly. The defense is fantastic. Hasn't fallen off. The offense with him and Garland is fantastic. Their top three in the east. And listen, this is honestly best case scenario for them.

So I would want to ask for. Got to be an A. I said before the year they'd be closer. to the best team the East than they would to a mid-tier team and I got yelled out for it, but that's exactly what they've been. They're fantastic. Who yelled yelled at you for that? You were the fucking entire comment section. I got cooked. I got cooked relentlessly. It was crazy.

You did. You were like, they had more potential for next year, but not this year. You were on that bullshit. I'm gonna fucking play the clip, too, if you're saying that. I like being a fraud. What can I say? 4K. All right. What about the Minnesota Timberwolves? They get an F They get enough

Big F They're a disaster class They're how you ruin a young court Yeah They have a fucking major How do you have the best part of your season When the first, quote And third best player on your team

Are both out And you're switching for philosophy now And they're going crazy This is embarrassing They got to put this This team This team is to be a case study In the basketball Smithsonian Museum

On how to ruin a team Like everything they did was wrong this is so embarrassing I love it they traded all in pink for Rudy go bear they when they already had a big like they got an F

the moment they made that trade yeah they suck Patrick Beverly's legacy looks so good right now he is their savior bring him back to town yeah

what if that's right whatever we go one more TikTok we're getting out of year would you rather have at this point would you rather have Zion

Williamson or John Moran? Give me John Williamson. John Moran's his shooting was out the fucking roof earlier to start the season, and I thought he, like, improved. I still think he, well, nah, his free throw numbers even regressed compared to all his other previous years. So give me Zion Williamson. I think we're seeing him go super sane mode, and this is damn near his final version

with the ball in his hands. Generational, incomparable. You can't say anything about it. Best at his position when he's playing like this. I think I would take... Sorry, Janus, my bad. Second miss. Whatever, I want to include that.

No, fuck. I think I would take John... Everything that we're seeing from Zion step into, John's been doing that. And he still has a long way to go himself. Like, his shooting can still get... His shooting can still get better. His defense can still get better.

And we're already seeing him be the absolute... Not only leader of a team, but face of a franchise, face of a city in Memphis. And so I would take him... I think I would take him... moving over zion i think right now you have to take jaw still even as great as zion's been jaw's been better right now it's true but i think we're seeing the signs with zion of his passing

is coming around he's hopefully going to be healthy his defense is coming around i'm going to pick him for the long term i won't be shocked at all by the end of the year zion's clearly the better player yeah but right now jah deserves it yeah give me zion what about zion versus shay gilded alexander i'm taking zion over everyone you name bro but shay is nasty as fuck and this is I think, nah, let me not. I was about to say, no, no, no, no, go ahead and say. But now, give me Zon.

I'm going to leave it at that. Okay, okay. I mean, it's not, is Shays been amazing, too. It's not an easy conversation. Yeah. I'm taking, I'm taking Zion. I'm taking Zion.

Okay. Okay. Let me re-shay the hook, I got to put that one first since I put in your job first back in it. Would you rather have Zionne Williamson or Sheigold was Alexander? I just said that. I love how I'm just given him the behind the scenes of how my editing is going to work.

Would you rather have Zion Williamson or Anthony Davis? This is so funny. Give me Zion. Give me Zion Williamson. Tough. Even though Anthony Davis has been so great. Yep. Yeah. He's going to be an old man with bad knees and bad ankles next year. And Zion and Zion still has a lot of years left in him. And even if he still has some injury concerns with him, he's 23. I was going to say, are you sure he's going to be healthy? he's 23 years old there's still time to get um there's still time to make up for anthie davis is about to get get to that hill yeah he's done yeah this man said anthie davis's gonna have dwayne weighed knees in

six months yep you're gonna have to go to germany go get that surgery i don't know she's gonna be hooping out in fucking tie along with eri fletzo simby and white howard anthony yeah er bletzo went stupid er bletso had 51 point that's crazy Anthony Davis is going to get a knee BBL That would look insane Just round kneecaps Oh my God That's crazy

It's going to be sturdy All right well that's all the videos I got right now I think we're good Sweet So if you're still watching here Shout out you If you're still watching, go out and comments What do you want him to comment

comment Zion Williamson is literally God that I know you watch the whole video Go ahead and comment that Yeah that's the end of the episode See you guys next time See y'all