The Deep 3 Podcast - The Knicks Steal Game 1, Jokic Is Unstoppable, and More! | TD3 Live

Episode Date: May 7, 2025

Breaking down this crazy week of NBA playoff hoops #nba Support the stream: https://streamlabs.com/thedeep3pod Today we react to all the latest NBA news! Check out the TD3 merch: https://the-deep-...3-shop.fourthwall.com/ Join the TD3 discord!: https://discord.gg/RUkjpMPp7E Listen on Spotify!: https://open.spotify.com/show/3elbbqVumwqz8wlIdknsLW Listen on Apple Podcasts!: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-deep-3-podcast/id1657940794 Follow us on TikTok!: https://www.tiktok.com/@thedeepthree Follow us on Instagram!: https://www.instagram.com/thedeep3podcast/ Isaac's twitter: https://twitter.com/byisaacg Muhamed's twitter: https://twitter.com/Mojo99_ Donnavan's twitter: https://twitter.com/Dsmoot3D Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Starting point is 00:00:00 The worst thing about today is Donovan gets to be happy. Once again. Two weeks in a row. We're Liddy. Two shows in a row. Last week's full episode, this stream, we come in here, and we got to let Donovan be happy. We got to let Donovan have his moments because the New York Knicks that we all love to doubt, we all love to laugh at for incompetency, for little brother's syndrome amongst the big market teams. For being...
Starting point is 00:00:27 Sorry, brother. He can stop. You're going to bring your sweat. For being just inadequate compared to the hype they get as the staple New York team in the biggest market. Today's that you get to be happy because you guys actually did something good. Dude, I have so many. Everybody doubted. Shut up. Because everybody doubt it.
Starting point is 00:00:43 I have so much. What I just say? Shut up. Don't say another word. Don't say another word. Because the whole world disrespected us. Did I give up? Yes, I did.
Starting point is 00:00:52 Did I jump back in five minutes later? Yes, I did. But we did it. We got game one three to go. You know what I'm saying? It's up. We got it. Shout out to Walking 37 for tipping $2.50 right off the top of the show.
Starting point is 00:01:04 We appreciate you guys coming through. We've got 400 of you guys in here already. Appreciate everybody coming through right when the stream starts. Got lots to talk about. Like you got to see by the title. We're talking about the start of the second round of the playoffs. We didn't really get a chance to give you guys like second round prediction just because of every goddamn series went to seven games. So it kind of fell between episodes.
Starting point is 00:01:20 But we're here to recap the first game in which we saw three upsets in three games, including the next winning the first. match against the Boston Celtics like we talked about, we'll talk about that, we'll talk about the OKC Thunder game, we'll talk about the Cavs game, we'll preview the Warriors versus Timberwolves game that comes on tonight. Yeah, man. Fun, a little round of a series you have to talk about. No, last night was amazing. I feel like, and everyone's been saying it, but like last night was peak playoff hoops, right? Because not only do you get the way that the game's ended, but you got him, you got them with actual, like, good teams, right? Like, if stuff happened in the first time,
Starting point is 00:01:57 I was like, oh, dang, that's crazy. This 1-8 is still going to get stopped, right? And so now it feels like things have actual consequence for what's going to happen in the playoffs. And for a Knicks team that was down by 20, for a Knicks team that hadn't beat all the top teams and you know the stats, they're over 10 and all that, to be able to stay in that game, do what needed to be done,
Starting point is 00:02:18 miss the opportunity to win it in regulation, and then go win it in overtime. That was hands down the best win that the Knicks have had all year. So I guess we're starting with the Knicks game. Oh, no, 100%. I guess that's been decided for us. 100%.
Starting point is 00:02:33 For them to do that, even when Josh Hart got into early foul trouble, cat got into foul trouble, Brunson didn't play amazing in the first half, and you still saw their ability to kind of turn up. Shut up. I also said this last year, and it's the same thing again. OG and Ninobe is the most important African man in my life. I love him because he his offensive
Starting point is 00:03:00 explosion good no more rights to the airport if you can listen fuck you if you can drop 29 and go six of 11 from three and play amazing defense over the course of two and a half three weeks and continue it going fine you can have that title but oh gee's doing that and you're not i got four points for you that's it yeah so i yeah everything that the nix did last night aside from Karathy touted in his performance.
Starting point is 00:03:28 Everything else was like, you know what? You did what you needed to do and shout out to y'all. Let me read a text that Donovan sent in our group chat during that game in the second quarter. No, that was why. In the second quarter, whenever the team. So we're barely the lead here. They lost it. They won this game.
Starting point is 00:03:44 The New York Knicks. They beat the Boston Celtics. And they did this by making a hilarious comeback because this was the game chart. This is what the lead changes look like. All that green right there, that's all the time. and the boss of Celtics led. You see this little chunk done here, this little bit of green?
Starting point is 00:03:58 That's a big amount of green. They were up by a lot of points and they blew a 20-point lead to lose this game. At home. At home in game one. So first things first, unsurious performance by the Celtics.
Starting point is 00:04:09 They missed over 43s. Tatum, in the last half of the game, I think scored zero shots at the rim, lots of step-back threes, fell into old Tatum habits and that annoyed people in the end of the game when he tried to hit a game-winning shot overbunds
Starting point is 00:04:21 by taking a step-back three. It was a typical, what you'd expect from one of those weird games in a series or the self-expined a way to blow it because of all their bad habits, that happened. The funniest part is. Midway through the second quarter,
Starting point is 00:04:32 Donovan texted, and he said, he tagged our friend, he said, as a CBA expert, tell me what I have to do to get Carlton Town's off the books and amnesty his contract. That was Don't's reaction to Carlton's early performance in the game.
Starting point is 00:04:47 No, it was despicable. Because you talk about all the bad habits that Tatum was having. Carr Anthony Town's, his bad habits were, 100% on display. The shot selection, the fouling, the being out of position. The Celtics did a very, very good job early on in that they knew, they knew we can get
Starting point is 00:05:08 Car Anthony Towns into these actions and we can attack him every single time. And they were able to do that. They were able to get him into foul trouble. And he just, he can't move laterally with Jason Tatum or with Jalen Brown. If they get by him and he's trying to make a play at the rim. His hands are going to be in the wrong spot. He's going to get a foul. And so Mitch Robinson had to come into this game a lot earlier than what you thought.
Starting point is 00:05:30 We saw Pressure Sanchua minutes in game one because of the Carithetown's foul stuff and because Mitch can't make free throws and the subject started to do, you know, the hack of whoever's strategy. But that was one of the reasons when way back in August and September and you are having like, that's a raving moment where you're psychic and you're looking forward. and you're like I can I can already see what it looks like in the second round of the playoffs when cat is in these situations and the Celtics did a good job and then at half time they're like what if we just didn't do that again right what if what if we what if we just didn't exploit that to to the same way that we did in the first half and then that kind of set
Starting point is 00:06:11 a whole bunch of things into into motion for them to lose that game hey mo what's up can tell you something what's up Celtics and five we're fucking right who who cares I don't, for the first time ever, like, I am so perplexed when it comes to the outcome of this game. Of course, it's fuck the next 24-7 all day ever. But even bigger than that, it's the Boston Telsic Celtics. Fuck them, too. We witnessed them miss a historic amount of threes.
Starting point is 00:06:44 Over, what was the number, 46, 45, 3s? Disgusting. That is a hilarious choke job that we witnessed. It would have been 46, but Jaylon Brown didn't even get a shot off. Tragic. We're never, we're probably never going to see this happen again. I don't want to say an NBA history,
Starting point is 00:06:59 but for at least a very fucking long time. Yeah. And to see. For another three days. They're going to put up 703s in game two. This is how they operate. Yeah. Again, this is how they operate is the best way to phrase it.
Starting point is 00:07:10 Yeah. This happens. Sometimes the Celtics are known to troll. That's why in early in last playoffs when they were, you know, we knew they were this dominant team that had their best season by far after adding K.P. and Drew, everyone still kind of had in their head that there's going to be games where they troll
Starting point is 00:07:21 because you live by the three and die by the three, you know, naturally sometimes you're going to die a lot by those threes and this type of stuff happens. That is to be expected at some degree, right? That's the reason they're probably not going to sweep a lot of teams. We win a lot of series in five. That's cool. We all still expect to Celtics to win the series, right? We're not going to overreact. But I will say, Jalen Brown has been dealing with a lagging knee injury. He has his moments where you still look like Jaylon Brown, but it's not quite as consistent. I think we can attribute that to the health. And the last episode we talked about Chris Hosperus and how quite as it's been kept,
Starting point is 00:07:51 unless you're a Celtics fan, Celtics fans are the first to tell you, he kind of sucks right now, and he's kind of sucked for a while for KP standards. A lot of the stuff he was brought in to do, the spacing he's expected to provide, the defensive anchor he was supposed to be.
Starting point is 00:08:02 He hasn't been doing too swell at those things. So while we do still think the Celtics will come back and win this series, props to the Knicks, but we're not going to change our prediction. There's some issues with the Celtics and they've got to figure out over the course of the series
Starting point is 00:08:13 before they get to these later rounds. The KP thing, on top of that, on top of him being inconsistent in his play, he's inconsistent in his availability. Yeah. And it's been like that all year. And the weirdest part about game one is that he left. And it was like, it wasn't even that he got hurt.
Starting point is 00:08:28 He was ill, right? He got sick. And so it's like, you know, are you actually going to be here? And so I think like going forward in game two, the Jalen Brown aspect and the, and the Porzingis, uh, I don't know, situation, I guess. Lacking illness slash, yeah, whatever. Yeah. Because he missed, because they obviously missed time before the playoffs started with an illness.
Starting point is 00:08:49 Doctors didn't even know what he had, which was. It was really, really weird that the last two things that, or two of the more major things that we've heard from Christops over the last six to eight months, doctors are like, this is super rare. I've never seen this, right? With his foot injury and with the illness. But it leaves a door. It leaves a door open for the Knicks to go get this series because, no, because.
Starting point is 00:09:11 It's not a motherfucker fucking serious. No, I'm dead. I'm dead serious. If Chrisops, if Christops is not there, if Jane and Brown is a little bit compromised. Sam Houser also turned his ankle there. Yes. We're talking about a team that is extremely top heavy. And do I think that the combination of Jason Tatum, Drew Holiday, Derek White can elevate
Starting point is 00:09:33 the Al Horford Wright, can elevate them? Of course. Also Drew Holiday coming off the hamstring, but whatever. So you have a top heavy team who's missing a lot of its, missing a lot of its heavy hitters are at 100%. There's a window open. And so you can, I think I'm, I'm obviously. not going to pick against the Knicks but like you know if you're just an objective
Starting point is 00:09:56 is a possibility yeah if you're an objective person and I don't think that it's just a mathematical possibility I think that it actually is a real possibility that the Knicks win the same damn I got bad news for you it just feels like everything had to go their way bro you you escaped a cat disaster class how I thought it wasn't possible but hey because it's the guy's name, aka Jalen Brunson, he made a fucking possible. So why don't you flip that? I've seen a lot of this though, but why can't everyone's like, oh, the Celtics missed it. They miss
Starting point is 00:10:27 X amount of threes. Tatum was doing this, Tadam was doing that. These are things that we've seen from the Celtics before. And have we, have we? We've seen the once every six games and then they dominate the other five of those six games. Okay. So we've seen that before. We've also seen Carinthe Towns. In the series
Starting point is 00:10:43 prior, she almost 50% from three. So you do have that. You have we've seen stretches of the we've seen stretches of the year where Mikhail Bridges has looked better offensively than what he did last night. You can say, hey, that can also get back to a positive
Starting point is 00:11:00 to a positive measure. So while you're trying to play out this balancing act, are the Celtics the favor? Of course they are, right? Are they on paper the better team? Yes. But line up, but put, get on the line, boy, boy, and see what happens.
Starting point is 00:11:16 See what happened. I thought we were coming up here we were enjoying this next win we were saying awesome I was trying to but then y'all out here and be like and then we got insanity over here
Starting point is 00:11:24 we got Hopium going too far you're setting yourself up for disappointment listen man if they win shout out gentlemen Brunson he will be propelled as one of the greatest Knicks of all time to win this series
Starting point is 00:11:32 easily he already is this you shouldn't overreact any game one you definitely shouldn't overreact when the best shooting team we've seen in the last 10 years shoots this poorly shooting variance decides a lot of things
Starting point is 00:11:44 this was so close of a game despite the self-explaying so far below their levels sure McKill can play better sure so and so can go well for the next two the chasm of the difference between their average performance versus what the Celtics did is a lot smaller the Celtics were so far below their line I think there's always a balancing act with these game ones from a team at top C that beat their first round series early they had a lot of time off there's always a balance between is it going to be rust or rest when you miss 45 threes clearly you had to deal with some rust a little shake that off that okay that would be I would agree with you more in that statement if If the game was close throughout the entire way, if you, you pulled up the graphic. The Celtics were up for a massive part of this game. They were up 20 up until the mid third quarter.
Starting point is 00:12:29 Nobody was saying, oh, like the rest, the rest. Yes, they were. Everyone was saying, damn, they're fine way to win, despite their jumper being this bad. But being, being up 20, right? That is a little relevance to how the jumpers look. Had they had they won, even if they shot the way that they shot, had they won yesterday, everybody would have said,
Starting point is 00:12:47 that the Celtics are just that much talented. The Knicks suck. They can't, they can't, they can't, they can't, they can't, they can't, and you know, no, no argument of Russ would have been, would have been brought up. But now because they lost, now it's, oh yeah, the, now it's, now it's, now it's, oh, yeah, the, the Russ, the Russ kicked in. They fell into bad habits, which is the one thing that they have, that, the one thing that we've been talking about for the Celtics for two years, maybe even three years.
Starting point is 00:13:13 It happened last night. This is what they do. The bad habit was missing open shots. That happens. Either way, if you miss 45 shots, you're rusty. Why are you missing shots, though? Because they're rusty. Either way, they'd be rusty.
Starting point is 00:13:26 They either would have won despite the rust. I will say, I will say, you did it. They took bad shots. Towards the end of the game, towards the end of the game, there were very bad shots taken by guys like kings. I agree with you on that. But in general, somebody take a turn. Somebody take a turn.
Starting point is 00:13:41 You guys, I actually are pissed me off. No, you're right. They did take bad shots. There are so many bad possessions by guys. guys like Jalen Brown and especially Jason Tatum to his own standard, bro. He was doing, he was spammy step back threes for whatever fucking reason.
Starting point is 00:13:54 Those got, when you talk about specific mannerisms and just habits that they fall back into, that's 100% on Tatum for that. Yeah. I love shaking my hair now. You can't, you could do that, but you can't do that. Well, anyways, regardless of back to the point.
Starting point is 00:14:08 Don't let me blow this out. I went to Turkey, man. But I, overall, like, Isaac is overall, right? like yeah like yeah the late game execution was bad there wouldn't have been a late game execution needed if they hit an average amount of their shots which they will most games all I'm saying
Starting point is 00:14:25 I'm not saying they sell this way perfect they obviously it was a close game they didn't execute in the fourth quarter it wouldn't have been a close game eight out of ten times if they ran this back because most times the Celtics proven they're gonna win the math equation more times they're nine they're gonna make
Starting point is 00:14:38 at least a below average amount of their shots not the worst shooting performance of their season like I'm listen you can have some hope the Knicks are not to be they're not an easy like ever the offense is that good brunton is that good but i won't give myself i won't if i was a nix fan i wouldn't give myself too much hope that they're going to win the series because of the worst shooting performance you could possibly imagine from the celtics i just wouldn't let that be the reason
Starting point is 00:15:00 where you're like yeah we can make him do this again this is definitely going to happen again i would look for i would look for other reasons to be happy i'm going to the back in the head who's winning the series in what games gun gun a legitimate gun to the back of your head the celtics I didn't know like I'm not I'm not disputing that the Celtics should be the favorite in this series but I'm saying like the way that you guys are approaching this and because at the end of the day now there it's a best of seven the Knicks have have one game like you just have you have to get four they have one I'm saying that for that for that there's a couple things that happen in the Knicks favor I think going into game two which is one you come off of this crazy physical football series with the Pistons. And I do think that you saw in the, at least in the first quarter or in the in the first half at the whole, it took them time to adjust. They, they were like, what do you mean I can't just run over these people? What do you mean? I can't hit him on his hand.
Starting point is 00:15:57 And so when Hart and Kat and Brunson even get into foul trouble, it takes, it takes a little while. And so I think you have, you have that aspect of it. And we'll figure out, right, what happens from from the. the Mitchell Robinson development, because I actually do think that it's very interesting that the Celtics went to the Hackamitch pretty early and didn't go back to it. Like I thought that in the second half, that was also something from them that was like, it clearly worked. You clearly got the Knicks out of any type of offensive rhythm that they had in the first half,
Starting point is 00:16:32 and you allow them to play with it, to play with that lineup in the second half and use their defense to get back into it whenever Kat was still in major foul trouble. Like, they could have pressed the issue so much more. And there was a scenario where we could have seen Huck 40 minutes last night because all of the bigs were either unplayable or infallurable. And the Celtics, I don't think press that button enough. Yeah, what's interesting is the Knicks, they ran their most switches this game by far on the season. Before this game, the most switches they ever ran in the regular season was 24 in one game.
Starting point is 00:17:04 They had 33 in this game. And that was a part of the reason why they came back to besides the Celtics going cold. They went cold and it made a big difference because in that second half, they were having a hard time beating those switches one-on-one. So the Knicks did find something there that the Celtics have to adjust to. So, I mean, the Celtics probably will, but they definitely have to figure that out. That part's TBD. The Knicks, at the very least, they showed them something that they don't normally do
Starting point is 00:17:25 and that caught them up guard in their game planning, I'm imagining. Because I assume they did not expect the big to be switched out quite as much. The Nitz Celtics are probably planning for a heavier drop coverage game. So shout-out tips, pulling that out of nowhere. I guess maybe they're hiding that for the playoffs. Maybe that was like an actual thing of that sort. but I really hope you're right. I hope you're right.
Starting point is 00:17:43 I would love nothing more. No, stay on that side. Keep it okay. Keep in mind. I like trolling you. I would like to see the Celtics downfall more. So let this make that much clear. I'm not hoping to be right about the Celtics.
Starting point is 00:17:53 No, it's okay. I would love to see the Celtics downfall so much more. If it meant you're happy about your team, I would accept it. I 100% agree with you. So I'm on the same thing. It's way bigger than you, but we're talking about history. I'm always going to troll you if we can. But we would also love to see the Celtics downfall.
Starting point is 00:18:09 Also, let's not get that confused. Yeah, exactly. It's always fucking Celtics. This is a troll either way type of debacle in this series. Either way, we're going to laugh. Yeah, there's, bro, this is one of the, we're in one of the best seats to be in as NBA fans, because whatever happens. We don't give a fuck. We don't give a damn.
Starting point is 00:18:27 We don't get to laugh at him or laugh at the Celtics. As a passive viewer, this is the best case in area. A win is a fucking win. No. No, shout out to the Knicks. It was a great comeback. More importantly than anything. Shout out Jalen Brunson for once again being just an outrageous closer.
Starting point is 00:18:44 Like we had this conversation last year when we realized that he is like transcending everything you thought his archetype of his size could be. He just keeps doubling down on this. We had the series winner against Asar Thompson. We had him closing on this game strong. He's just the most likable star player in the league, I think. I don't know besides people that hate his foul bidding, which I guess is fair to use their own. Man, he should have pulled that out yesterday.
Starting point is 00:19:04 I was called for it. That's so interesting that you said that because usually typically throughout this entire Celtics Knicks series about the entire year. Something that I noticed that the Celtics tried to do a good job of is not get runs into the line because obviously it just creates an avalanche of advantages for the offense and also helps get him going as well. And this game, they didn't do the great.
Starting point is 00:19:25 He got to the line, I think seven times or eight times. And that's, yeah, of course, like that's not usually, I think that's right around his average. Sightly both. They did an okay job with that. So I'm curious to see how they're able to tighten down on like, even more because if you look at the previous games that they faced off
Starting point is 00:19:43 against each other, Brunton has not been in general been able to get to the line as often and as comfortably as he usually is because of how they decide and fend him and give him a little bit more space and use that link to go ahead and disrupt him. So I'm keeping an eye on that heavy.
Starting point is 00:19:59 And on that, I'm very curious in Game 2. Like the number one thing that I'm watching or that I'm looking for going into Game 2 is 100% the KP situation. Yeah. Because if KP's not there and you have to roll out
Starting point is 00:20:12 Al Horford, you saw at the end of the game, the Celtics were giving that switch, the Knicks were taking it. And they said, if you are going to allow us to have Jaylen Brunson or have Al Horford on Jalen Brunson, cool, we'll live with that. And as great of a defender as Al Horford is,
Starting point is 00:20:29 you do trust Jalen Brunson in those moments in ISOs where the Celtics are also going to be like, we trust Al Horford. It's one-on-one. It's one-on-one. you know what Jalen Brunson can do and so I like that's going to be an area where the Knicks are going to be able to hopefully find some more success
Starting point is 00:20:45 if KP doesn't play or if Alhorfer has to play extended minutes yeah I'm glad this the Knicks are going to at least make this a fun series because like even you were not excited to see how you're a scarehouse is going to go at least they gave us something that we can like not all three these series thank God they're going to be close because it's felt like on paper
Starting point is 00:21:03 it was going to be a lot of blowouts or at least not blowouts because they're all good teams but it was going to be a lot of series that we didn't have a lot of there wasn't a lot of questions on who was going to win it on paper, you know? Yeah. So let's move on to another one
Starting point is 00:21:13 that now we have a lot of questions about. OKC Thunder where it's Denver Nuggets. This was the funniest meltdown I could imagine and probably the most frustrating for Thunder fans because we saw the OKC Thunder
Starting point is 00:21:24 pretty much dominate for three quarters, really three and a half quarters. 43 minutes, the defensive activity was insane. Alice Caruso played out of his mind. Yokich 8, but outside of that, they had a double-digit lead for most of the game,
Starting point is 00:21:37 and then Yokic just went God mode. Yokic scored like 10 straight points in a fourth quarter run and then Mark Dagnall, Mark fucking Dagnol decided to do the most hilariously unethical series of fouling of three that bit them in the ass, gave them carmic debt. They lost the game strictly because of Mark Dagnall's decision to foul up three too many times.
Starting point is 00:22:00 And then Chet fucking Holmgren looked like George Hill at the line. It was a hilariously comical meltdown. I never seen that man so much paler in my life. He was scared shitless. It was such a jarring meltdown to go from such a, for again, for 40 minutes, we were like, okay, Thunder came out strong. The rest, they look spry. Alex Russo looks like.
Starting point is 00:22:21 The low management worked. He looks amazing. He's playing full minutes now and flying around. Shout out of him. He was going down to. And then the flip fucking switched. And then Yokic, the level, like, so much to be made about the Mark Dagnolk mistakes, fouling up three in the chat misses.
Starting point is 00:22:36 Even before that, for the five minutes before that, Yokic dominated so unbelievably hard. That looked like the Bronto shit with how much they just like locked in. He defended pretty well. And I think it was like four-shaped possessions. He just smashed the paint, scored every time and just slowly wooded away that lead. It was real best player in the world shit. I was thinking the same exact thing.
Starting point is 00:22:59 And in turn in that too, like, Shay did his thing. And he tried his best to hoist, like, hoist, up all the other guys around him but of course she wasn't able to or i mean my bad not she chet he had a so-and-so game not the greatest game in fact one of the worst games that he's played this postseason and then jadev as well like we've had questions dating since last year about how consistent and how reliable of a go-to store score can he be yeah he was the complete opposite of that last night 20% from the field five for 20 and i think he was the biggest one that it looked like Rust, I think. Now, we know J-Duff can have some fucking poor shooting games, so that could
Starting point is 00:23:37 happen as well. But in round one, he did such a good job of asserting his like physicality against smaller defenders and the Grizzlies. And in this game, I guess part of it is the Nuggets played a pretty big lineup for most of the game with Aaron Gordon and Nicole Yokich out there for most of the minutes. But he was just so weird and like dependent on the on his like off-balance floaters and not really creating contact and finishing in the lane that it looked like rust to me and the shot's not falling. But you can never be sure because it's two years in a where we're seeing a lot of bad J-Up games, it's always going to be a concern.
Starting point is 00:24:05 Didn't start well in that regard. That's what it looked like last year, right? Yeah. I think the Mavs also, like, did a really good job of exposing his handle and, like, game planning to make him look bad. This game, I think he just, like, played horribly on his own accord.
Starting point is 00:24:18 Just look back. Either way, this is two years now. Yeah. Where we're in the second round, and you're not playing the cupcake in the first round. And so you have actual, and listen, for the nuggets, like, shout out to,
Starting point is 00:24:32 to them because and i i think you guys have probably seen the clip too of yoke's like in the time out you know yelling and stuff he's looking like player coach right now and he's looking locked in but this is this is now for jadob the i think we all talked about him as one of the the biggest x factors for the thunder because you knew it was going to come come down to this and so it does it does suck because everything that everybody said about the thunder all year in terms of inexperience in terms of are they are they really like that is jadab is jadev really like that offensively all of that came into fruition in one game and so it it's the same thing as with all of these series the door is open now and if you give the best player in the world a little bit of
Starting point is 00:25:22 daylight to where now they only have to win three of these games you can see like you can see Yokin's taking over against Chet and against Hartinstein for the rest of the series and him dominated. We just saw it last series about how much he can dominate and how much he can impact the game. So I'm, I'm not moving off of OKC, but I'm like, okay. You guys, you guys actually have to go out and win it. It's not, it's not like, I don't know about it open in terms of like I'm not changing my opinion. Because before we didn't get to do our predictions, I was going to say OKC in six because the Yokic factor, he's just so good. And they have such the purpose. perfect player to take advantage of all the Thunder's weaknesses and the fact that you can beat them up on the boards with Nicole Yokish specifically and create a lot of offensive rebounds with Nicole Yoker specifically. So I was thinking OKC and 6. I think this just makes it so we have to really, really see what the Thunder are about mentally now because we have no concerns about them on paper. And if their offense is good enough, their defense is good enough, if their best player is good enough, et cetera. We know that if basketball is playing on a spreadsheet, they would be everybody by far. The question is the mental side of it. That's kind of what people mean when they say.
Starting point is 00:26:28 experience right like can you stay poised under pressure in those moments you've never been there before clearly check got a little shook on that free throw line from that this will be the best test of that i think to really throw them in the fire from having no pushback in round one to now you had a little leeway you were favored in the series you could afford to lose a game or two and still be fine to lose that game right away you can't lose the second one now it's it's not do or die per se but for the position you're in as a younger team that is favored but you know you have the questions you have a little bit of a chip on your shoulder for you your inexperienced and you hear that you got to come out and show that you have that
Starting point is 00:27:01 championship mental so so we can believe that the the net rating matters so we can believe that the defensive rating matters because you have the requisite wherewithal to make it matter against a team like the Nuggets who I am so unbelievably moved by them right now and so just like I don't need I'm not proud because I'm not a Nuggets fan but I'm like respecting them so much the level of lock in they have the way they're pulling up their shorts and defending in these big moments it is just like it's peak whatever the it feels like 23 because it like whatever like championship material means whatever it factor means it feels like I'm watching it every night they have that to the highest degree yeah I feel like in 2023 like there were so many moments where
Starting point is 00:27:43 down like that five-man line that that that they had you would get to the fourth quarter and if the if the game was tied or if the Nuggets had a small lead it's like all right they got it because they were just going out-execute you offensively and the fact that they can do it on on both ends right obviously offensively they're always going to do it because yokech is there and the right play is going to be made but now that it's a it's a two-way kind of lock-in that is a very interesting development yeah and it's a it's a high high level of a dog that they have I'll I'll overreact right now and I'll say if the nuggets go up to O they got it well yeah yeah I would be very scared they went up to O I agree that would
Starting point is 00:28:25 wouldn't be overreaction that would be oh fuck losing both games in the home court that is not a good place to start from yeah exactly for me going forward for game two a thing that i'll be definitely keying into and hoping that this isn't the outcome because again like you guys know and as you start off the year i'm like yeah i got the Denver nuggets coming up this top of the year uh coming towards the end of the season but i switch sides and i'm like yeah i think okay c's actually going to be title favorites maybe like midway 30 games in the season or whatever Seeing how they got beat the fuck up on the boards was so, like, it's deflating. They got abused on the boards, and I think I saw so much.
Starting point is 00:29:09 In general, they're a bigger team, obviously, but I felt the Isaiah Hardinstein impact, but it feels like they just need much more else everywhere in terms of, like, effort and hustle and all that other shit across the board. I think that's going to be here to stay no matter what, even when the games they win. They won the boards because you have to throw two bodies on Nicole Yokic. And when you do that, you help off of Russell Westbrook and you help off Aaron Gordon and Christian Brown and all these so-so shooters. And those guys are so unbelievably good at cutting and crashing to get the board when Yokish tries to shoot over the double team. That's going to be a strength of theirs regardless. So, like, part of it is by design because the Nuggets, the Thunder know that and they're okay with that because they know they have to throw two bodies at Yokich.
Starting point is 00:29:47 So I think that comes to the territory. The thing that concerns me is the Nuggets, they play defense. last night, they looked to me like the Golden State Warriors defense with how they were able to completely shrink the floor and use their positional size to cut off all the driving lanes and make it so if Shea wants to drive, he's going to double it at the nail every time, they're going to have to swing it out to a shooter and they're going to close out really hard and make that shooter make a quick decision. They did such an unbelievably good job at that that Mark Dagonal needs to have a better fix for that in the game too. They need to go in the lab
Starting point is 00:30:17 and figure something out because Shea did not look comfortable at all times. He had a good game overall. But in that late game scenario where the Nuggets scored like eight straight points with Yokic and really whittled down that lead, the other side of that is they locked the thunder the fuck up in the half court because their ability to cut off the driving lanes was so good. And part of it is also that fact that in the playoffs right now we're seeing them allowed the most physicality ever. So they're allowed to really knock shay off of his driving lanes. If you can be really physical with him, you can double him well, you can recover well to those shooters. They got to figure out some spacing situations
Starting point is 00:30:46 going on because that's going to be tricky, tricky, tricky every single late game situation. Shout out to Russell Westbrook, man. He was a demon effort-wise that game. He always is, so, you know, that's his M.O. But he was really important. Him and obviously Aaron Gordon, we're ignoring the fact that this man hit a fucking game winner. We haven't even mentioned it.
Starting point is 00:31:03 Ice in his goddamn veins. I mean, shout to you, you know what I'm saying? He's not a real game winner of the playoffs. Ice in his fucking veins. He's such a likable role player. Yeah. No, it was great. To your, to your shape point, this is, this is 100% where,
Starting point is 00:31:18 where Mark Dagnall has to get into his bag because they won and they blew the Grizzlies out because the Grizzlies suck. But Shea hasn't looked comfortable all playoffs. Yeah. Like he's had, he's had, you know, his first, like, games under 25 points in forever. He's gotten certain numbers, but it hasn't looked as crisp. And all the, like, MVP moments that we saw throughout the year,
Starting point is 00:31:45 he hasn't had one of those signature moments in the first five. five games where on the other side like yoke's just doing that basically every other game and so finding a way to get your star player um comfortable that's a like that's going to be on him especially when you're going up against an interim coach and you think that you'd have a coaching advantage in last night that just you know at least toward the end of the game wasn't was in the case and the shade thing um it's not so the reasons he's struggling i think aren't surprising in that teams are just doubling the fuck out of him. With extreme consistency, which happens in the regular season, he's not exactly new to it.
Starting point is 00:32:21 But obviously, the intensity in a playoff series is different. The level of game plan, people always talk about when you play a team for seven straight games, you're going to have a more precise game plan, right, and they're going to know the perfect spots to double him, the ways he's most uncomfortable attacking against double teams. They're doing that more. That's natural. You have to learn to be able to work through that as number one option. Every star gets that.
Starting point is 00:32:42 Tatum famously struggled with that for a couple of years. Now he's pretty damn great at passing out of the. that and then the it hasn't been talked about too much the level of physicality being allowed is like noticeably extremely different right now compared to most playoffs runs we've talked about it yeah it hurts him especially people talk about it in so far as that like you're not going to get those free throws in the playoffs that hasn't been the issue the issue is his driving ability is so predicated on angles and his ability to like slither around people that if they're able to hand check him it really throws him off his rhythm and that's what he has to adapt to i think so it's like a mixture of two
Starting point is 00:33:13 things that come with the territory of being a superstar that I think we all think he will adapt to it or at least can TBD he has to figure it out this is what comes to the territory you have to be able to adjust the new coverages in the playoffs and they just flip the switch like there's a there's a middle level of like normal playoff intensity that they just a hundred percent you know skipped and now it's like you're playing game six game seven in the NBA finals every single night and so yeah that's going to be crazy especially in this game which once again, they haven't played anybody because the grizzly suck. And so you haven't had to really, really get deep in your bag because before you look up,
Starting point is 00:33:53 you guys are by 25. Yeah. Right? He has had to really go and use, you know, his fifth best move and take a counter off for that move to go get to go get a bucket. Like, it's definitely an adjustment. So we will see. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:34:07 If you want to get credit for being an MVP, being a top three player in the world, you get them in that very good season. these are the moment you've got to prove that it transit to the playoffs right like it's the exact time that he kind of like solidifies himself as that and this is this is obviously a great test because the nuggets are doing an extremely good job with that and it works both ways too because yokech is getting hounded they're following the shit at fm every play they're also doing the same thing okay sees an incredibly physical defense and he's done know what he's done he's done a fantastic job at foul baiting so then nuggets fans have screamed for him to do to be more unethical he was so unethical in the second quarter getting chet
Starting point is 00:34:38 and Isaiah Hardenstein to foul trouble on purpose, he did such a good job at that because he's a season veteran that has learned to cope with that physicality. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:34:45 You got to see the other side. You got to see Shay also learn how to figure out ways to get around that. Game to who you got. I would hope, OK, C. I'm about pray,
Starting point is 00:34:55 okay, so he finds a way to win. I'll go with the thunder. They also, they did the things that they also like normally do in terms of, like they turn,
Starting point is 00:35:05 they turn, they turn them over so much. they I think like they they doubled them up on turnovers they were able to yeah you're right they had like 18 turnovers right they were able to get points off of those turnovers and so I think like that's something where even as great as as yokic was last night and all the all the you know lock in slap in the floor that Denver did the the defensive pressure and the strength for okay C this season has always been their defense it's always been the fact that they have elite perimeter defenders and they can go and say caruso you come out we'll put somebody else in and they just have this factory of guys
Starting point is 00:35:41 that they can that they can roll out that that's not something that i feel discouraged about in the least and so going into game two i still expect them to put a lot of pressure on on the perimeter for denver and they're going to be able to get turnovers they're going to be able to get out and get points off of that so it really is you know even if shade doesn't have an amazing game which if shade even if like if jada has a bad game and And if Chet is just so-so, you can have their regular defensive pressure. And let's say Shea goes up 5%. I feel good about them winning it.
Starting point is 00:36:14 I mean, I feel good about them winning it as long as Mark Dagnol doesn't do the stupidest coached decision of all time. So, like, in the day, like, I'm not unconfident in the thunder now. They have, again, they have to lock in and show us their championship material mentally and win game two. So the pressure's on and they have to answer it. That's TBD, right? That's not a guarantee. But if you're confident beforehand of this series, I don't think you should be less confident now. I think you should be noticing
Starting point is 00:36:37 that it's harder now and they have no budget for error but again they were winning for most of the game and then I can't I can't over exaggerate how fucking stupid what Mark Dagnol did was
Starting point is 00:36:47 They had 11 seconds left on the clock and he started fouling up two What's to be gained if you foul them every single time the ball comes in with no time off the clock At that point you're just like taking turns shooting fritos in perpetuity forever
Starting point is 00:36:59 until somebody misses You're not running any time off the clock All you're doing is injecting an opportunity for randomness with three is smart but also you have to combine that with losing time on the clock if there's two seconds left always foul up three if there's 11 seconds left play some goddamn defense it doesn't make sense to do it at that point that early it was i compared on twitter to the jr smith game one shot uh fuck up from 2018 where he did another clock it felt like that level of mind slip to me where
Starting point is 00:37:26 that just didn't make sense at all and he just completely like froze don't do that and you win the game and it's a very different conversation right now and add on top of that yokez was out the game. Yeah, that part too. Yolkich was out the game. The Nuggets didn't have any timeouts. They weren't going to be able to get Yokich back into the game unless the thunder stop the, stop the game.
Starting point is 00:37:45 And they said, we will do that and give you as much time as you need. So silly. You want them in? You want them in for how long? We got you. So, like, that's the, that was, yeah, that was the major blunder. And the day, J-dub sucked. Shea was good, but not quite as amazing as he was in the regular season.
Starting point is 00:38:01 Still good. He had damn near a triple double. We were kind of framing like he had a bad game. It's just not to his MVP standards, but he was still good. Chet blew two free throws look like a deer in headlights. None of that would goddamn matter if Mark Dagnall just had regular baseline clock management and did it completely soil his pants. Like it was that level of meltdown that like everything else that came because of that
Starting point is 00:38:19 can be traced back to the fact that he pretty much lost in the game. Yeah, I can agree with that. Their AI led offense failed him last night for sure. And I feel pretty good about them coming back and bouncing back in game too because like you said, nothing was wildly uncharacteristic. like a force like shake fit is facing just a different level of defense and there's some uncomfortabilities in his game but still within that like you said the and he put up like a 30 point triple double a damn near so yeah his game is still what is what is what is going to do
Starting point is 00:38:47 alice crusoe gave them like 20 fucking points out insane a 20 point for game 20 point game last night and also had like fucking five assist two or whatever he had five threes as well played ridiculous check i mean jad up just needs to hit his shots and chet just needs to overall show it more, a little bit more offensively to help, like, release a lot of pressure from the J-Duds and Shays of the world. I think we're not going to see much better of Chet for a few reasons.
Starting point is 00:39:11 I've talked about it all year. He's not a good score as a power forward. They're kind of, so in this series, they have to play in power forward because it's goddamn Yokic. You got to play the double big lineup and pray you cannot get destroyed in the interior.
Starting point is 00:39:21 So you have to do that and deal with the downsides. Che is good as a score when he's against five because he can stretch him out and has a little bit of a quickness advantage against most fives. Like he would against Yokchch
Starting point is 00:39:30 who'd create some good jumpers. when he's playing the four he is not strong enough to exploit smaller guys so you're not going to see big scoring games with him in this series and also
Starting point is 00:39:38 when he missed all the time with that broken hip his key came back his lower body is so trash right now he is so weak as you'd expect because he missed
Starting point is 00:39:46 six months with a broken hip you can't do a lot of squats I imagine remember those two dunks that he missed in this game yeah weak-ass lower body
Starting point is 00:39:53 he could not jump high enough he missed a putback he missed a wide open dunk there was the late game free throws I bet his legs were fucking tired and not contributed as much as anything,
Starting point is 00:40:02 you're going to, Che is going to have a struggle in this series as a score no matter what I think. Unless he just, you know, threes fall, it changes things.
Starting point is 00:40:10 That's the main thing for me personally. Like, when it comes to him and his mobility and, like, gliding to the room like he casually doesn't, not necessarily can't hold you to those expectations, but bare minimum just like hitting your shots,
Starting point is 00:40:22 your set shots specifically is needed and there's no excuse for that. I think defensively he looks so pretty good in this game. Obviously, Yokish went fucking beast mode. He'd, got them both in foul trouble, beat up both those bigs. He had, especially against everybody else that's not Yokic, Chet played a good defensive game.
Starting point is 00:40:36 So there's at least that, but yeah, man, I think they're going to have to win in spite of his offense in this game in the series. J-dub has to be the guy to beat that second star because you're not getting it from Chet when he has to use all of his energy to defend fucking Nikola Yokic. Broken hip is so crazy. Yeah, it really is an insane. To break your hip and to come back and not just be like,
Starting point is 00:40:56 you know, like older person, like if you're 30 and you're, break your hip and you're like man i'm just trying to learn how to walk again you're playing professional basketball on the best team in the league being asked to be one of the best defenders in the league after you broke your hip like it's it's crazy at the ripe age like 21 22 yeah and you had to defend a colin yokic with twig legs because you couldn't work out for five months like bro i'm going home and he's already he was already at a disadvantage too because his legs are his legs ain't nothing do to do about it yeah missed six months of a bolt because he like he can't You can't put on any size of peak.
Starting point is 00:41:33 Like these ages, right, is the peak time where you are, like, putting on size, adjusting to NBA physicality. And to have somebody who already missed an entire season, have one year and one off season, and then basically miss a majority of this year as well. And by the time you get back into your rhythm, boom, here comes hard and it's time. Now you have to figure out how to work with this. I feel like next, and obviously, then the number one seed, they could still go on and win a championship.
Starting point is 00:42:02 Everything could be fine. Next year, it's going to be a similar situation, probably to what we saw with Darius Garland this year, where, oh, yeah, you actually get a full offseason to rehab this crazy injury. Now you're just going to be better from start to finish. Because from the jump, those first nine games, Ted was looking different. He was looking crazy.
Starting point is 00:42:20 And then he broke his hip. So I'm very curious to see after the offseason what he looks like next year. You know, it comes to the territory. everybody gets hurt and has to deal with the downsides we've been critical of everybody in there everybody breaks their hit yeah it is a bad injury but so it's i would say it's on the team now it's on mark dagonal to realize that chet's still going to be a good defender offensively there's given tank you're going to have to play into hardinstein as a finisher play more to jdub you know not ask too much of chet like this is what he's paid for this is why he won coach the year last year
Starting point is 00:42:48 this is why he's heralded as an elite coach time to show it mark because this is a series that requires very good coaching because even though you have a just immense talent advantage up and down the roster, Nicole Okish makes up for a lot of that. Yeah. You know what's the dumbest conversation that I saw last night on Twitter after this game? People were saying, oh, man, the Wemby conversations are over, bro. Chet and Wemby conversations, I can't believe you had those talks. The most dumbest shit I've seen in a very, I can't say in a very long time.
Starting point is 00:43:18 But some of those dumbest commentary and takes that I've seen from this game is. Who had Chet and Wemby talks? like compare people comparing the two yeah but like and like anybody really think TD and like Dirknowitzky type I mean I guess Thunder fans probably said Chats's probably better than Wemby
Starting point is 00:43:33 but did anybody with like did anybody really believe Chet would be better than Wemby is that a real conversation I think they were in the not necessarily in the same tier but in like a similar class of players
Starting point is 00:43:45 I mean it's like defensively yeah yeah for sure defense for sure it's playing the way that he played for nine games cool right where he was averaging 24 getting four blocks right there was that 10 game stretch we were saying
Starting point is 00:43:59 the d p o why is chet's however again we haven't seen that in in a whole year and wemby wild chet was out like it this the season really has been a disadvantage for chet because while chet was out wemby was out here ascending and taking massive massive steps
Starting point is 00:44:17 offensively he was looking great defensively as well and now that his team is better you're going to start hearing that stuff like people are are going to realize how good wemby is and obviously yeah we're not turning this into wendy glaze right now we got to talk about cleveland versus the pacer some news just broke that the game's going to start saying we'll tell you about it but first let's read some donations shout out to i've avocado for different $15 shout out to jt 2501 for $3 paradox for $3 $7 something's in $5 for $5 I'm throwing that $5 back
Starting point is 00:44:48 Carlos for $3 appreciate you shout to dark lobster for $20 Appreciate you a lot. Shout out to Elsa OZT for $3. Dark Lobster for another $5. Appreciate all y'all, man. So we talked about two straight upsets in game ones in which teams that we thought would walk through their conferences
Starting point is 00:45:08 got beat at home. Turns out there's a third team that we also thought would walk to the conference finals. Here go a little more for you. They also lost. The Cleveland Cavaliers lost to the Indiana Pacers in game one.
Starting point is 00:45:19 The Pacers being a team that we all respect. We don't expect them to beat the Cavs. but we all say you better be on your goddamn toes because the patients are not to be fucked with they are going to make you execute and play your game well turns out Darius Garland wasn't there game one so that made things muddy and then the Pacer just out played them in game one
Starting point is 00:45:35 game two is about to happen we have news that's Evan Mobley Darius Garland and DeAndra Hunter are all out for game two due to injuries Holy fuck It's getting scary Those three players from the rotation bro That sucks
Starting point is 00:45:49 Pivotal players That sucks So these guys were all up in the air I'm guessing what they decided to do was let's cross our goddamn fingers for game two let's get them healthy for game three let's try to if we had to punt it we have to punt it they need to be 100% before they come back
Starting point is 00:46:01 and I guess that's what they opted for this kind of sucks because the calves are having the best season they've ever had outside of LeBron to see it potentially to be irrelevant by injuries how annoying just all you can say is how annoying it's just no analysis really if they win the series are not due to injuries
Starting point is 00:46:17 we'll see but how fucking annoying for when the premier teams to be eliminated by something like this if that goes that far scored down a little bit to that first reply they can't keep getting away with this the pace is year in and year out at least for the last two years are now here in the second round and have key injuries going in their favor now shout out to them though because all you can do is play who's in front of you
Starting point is 00:46:42 and at least to their credit they're up one oh right now like they did go into cleveland in game one and get that game and they had three stars there so so it wasn't an easy game they won a game against a team that yes was very in good position to win still yes and so listen we've talked a lot about tyrese and his his development and his ascension and i guess regression to to the mean or whatever yeah right up and down nature of his style of yes so we we talked about tyrese game one yo andrew nemhard is disgust he's a homie ludden them hard we go hard every day for nem hard he's he's disgusting the the his impact on on this game whether it be shot making in kisa
Starting point is 00:47:23 in key situations and not like the obvious like oh i'm going to hit a shot at the end of the quarter but like cleveland's making a run and nemhart hits a hits a three to kind of keep them at bay where nemhart goes and makes makes a nice pass gets it still here like he he has been so key all year long and there's a reason why whenever you look at the top lineups for indiana nemhart's always always on there and it's like him and tirese and pascal like that that that big big three whatever like that trio it's elite and he played so well in game one nim hard is such a weird ass player because coming into his career everyone saw him and knew he was going to be a very good like role player for this team he has been that since day one up until now obviously but in the
Starting point is 00:48:13 he seems like one of the new one of the NBA's like latest playoff risers traditionally he's a he's a he's been a good three-point shooter you shot like i think 35 percent for his first year 85% for his second year and this past season he shot 29% from the three point line he's never been like
Starting point is 00:48:29 a player who's gonna kill you with his scoring more so he's like he provides solid secondary tertiary playmaking and he's a very good
Starting point is 00:48:37 consistent role player might I say like at times he can feel Derek White esk definitely that's a good comparison like there's only
Starting point is 00:48:45 so many players in the league that can be your main point of attack defender hit a three and create like as a point guard
Starting point is 00:48:50 a little bit Derek White Andrew NMhard Jalen Suggs I guess Dyson Daniels if you want to give him that with the creation jump Outside of that can you name anybody else that fits that mold like it's so unique and so valuable It's rare it's rare to have all those all those things and also be able to like still be the one of the best defenders The best permanent defender on the court at all times Yeah, and so seeing him just like rise and shoot 40 fucking 45% from three point line
Starting point is 00:49:16 The pieces just have so many weapons they have so many weapons that can easily glide into 16 17 points a night and Tyrese Halliburton's job is to eat it's not easy of course but for him he makes it look easy because he's the one conducting all this shit and their offense is full so effortlessly yeah yeah we've talked about a lot as of late the paces are just so disciplined and just so consistent in their approach we we talked a lot early in the year about when Tyrese Halliburton were struggling and they went to these like more lower usage of him I guess you can say egalitarian spread out the ball offense and when Tyrese Hallibor was playing poorly and it seems to adversely affect him, we were like, what are they doing?
Starting point is 00:49:55 That feels, if Tyrese can't play this way, then that's going to, you know, your ceilings is lower. He adapted so long ago. He's back to being really good in finding his flow within this. Now you're seeing it paid dividends. You see why Rick Carlisle elected to make him play this way. They're not dependent on one star player. They're not even dependent on two star players.
Starting point is 00:50:12 They're dependent on five guys that all create and all have a role. It gives you such a high floor that here you are. You get, I guess, quote unquote, lucky with injuries. you're going to take advantage every time you're going to win the game if the other team's under man because you are going to simply play your game and if the other team isn't in tip-top shape
Starting point is 00:50:28 ready to play their game at the highest level, you're probably going to beat them five times out of six. Yeah, and obviously you don't want to see the injuries on Cleveland side and it does put,
Starting point is 00:50:38 it does give Indiana a great opportunity to go up to-0. I still think Cleveland, so I'll say this. I'm picking Indiana tonight. I picked them before, before this game and before all these.
Starting point is 00:50:51 the other guys got hurt. But D. Mitch, and you saw it in game one, D. Mitch and his playoff rising and his ability to just say, I'm just going to take over the game right now. It was on display in game one. And you are going to see that tonight. Like you're going to see him put up a lot of shots, carry the offense, put the team on his back,
Starting point is 00:51:11 and there were so many stretches, specifically this one, where the Cavs eventually took the lead, where D. Midge, going to the rim, putting pressure on the rim, knocking down shots, right? when his off the dribble 3, like a lot of stars, but when his off the dribble 3 is working with his speed and his ability to put pressure on the rim, you just got to put your hands up and be like,
Starting point is 00:51:30 all right, you got it. So, like the D-Mids game might happen tonight and we might look up and it's going to be 1-1. And, you know, Mowgli's back for game 3, Garland's back for game 3, and everything's fine. Yeah, I wish we had more to say about this, but it's really just like, we'll fucking see what the castes can do before the stars come back.
Starting point is 00:51:46 Like, it's just unfortunate. Not much to be said about a team that's going to be playing with half of their star players we've been handicapped with these conversations tied your own legacy game today yeah you know if they win it'll be a teamish legacy game probably he's had a lot of good playoff moments if he does it again you know he has those spry legs they kind of manage his minutes start the year you're looking seeing him play better because of that hey you mentioned if you're ever as you have a 50 point game in you tonight would be a good night to give it they need it bad and fourth series of the second
Starting point is 00:52:15 round the one that we obviously haven't seen yet that starts tonight golden state warriors versus Timberwolves. I guess we'll just start here because this is one we can actually finally give a prediction to because that hasn't started yet. Who's winning the series? Who?
Starting point is 00:52:28 Man. I'm going, I don't want to say it. But I'm going with the Timberwolves. I agree. I agree. It's a sweep. No, no. No, I'm saying like here.
Starting point is 00:52:38 Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And at the most basic level, Houston was a tough matchup for a Golden State because not only did they have an elite defense, but they didn't have anybody.
Starting point is 00:52:49 could score, who could score. Minnesota has a good defense, and they have somebody who can score. And so, like, on that very basic level, if you, the games that, that the Rockets won, it was because Jalen Green stepped up and got 38. Fred Van Bleach stepped up, and his three was falling. And so whenever you had a perimeter player, I actually have a really good game, then Houston was able to capitalize on a lot of the weaknesses that Golden State had. If you turn Jalen Green and is like, let me.
Starting point is 00:53:19 go from Jalen Green to Anthony Edwards, that jump in itself and having, and having that ability, you look at the series and it's like, hey, like the wolves are at a very, very high advantage here. It's so hard to have this conversation right now because these are two completely different teams who face each other multiple times, but they face each other when they're in different, like, phases of their integrations. We saw, I think the Golden State Warriors this season have like a three and one record against the T. Wolves. That was before, of course, the Jimmy Buller trade, and that was obviously before,
Starting point is 00:53:53 too, Donja Dimitigio was out plenty of those games. Rudy Gobert, of course, missed some time as well. And on top of that, too, like, they didn't have their newfound identity just set and things weren't flowing for this team, and they weren't obviously healthy, too. So, it's hard for me to, like,
Starting point is 00:54:10 find ways with their newfound identity for each of these teams, specifically the Golden State Warriors, though, in this case scenario, it's hard for me to find ways to see how they can legitimately like give the Minnesota Timberlose issues like of course small ball is always going to be a thing for them yeah I think it's a big thing but I'm not sure how much of it is going to be able to really throw the Minnesota off the game I think y'all are more confident
Starting point is 00:54:37 I am I feel like the wolves have the warriors have a chance I'm gonna go Timberwolves but I I don't feel amazing about it just because there was spurts in that Lakers series where the small ball did work and was able to bog him down The Timberwolves didn't have an amazing half-core offensive rating for that season for the series. The difference was the Lakers just had no juice at the rim and eventually it wore them down. They couldn't execute that through the final minutes. The Warriors have to Ramon Green. It makes a big difference.
Starting point is 00:55:02 They had Jimmy Butler. It makes a huge difference. They have guys like Moses Moody. They have some size there on the wings that they can do a way better and more consistent version of that small ball defense while also going big. Well, big. We'll see what Looney and Post give them. Post looked horrible in that last series. He probably won't look at here either
Starting point is 00:55:19 But if Loney can hang with Rudy Gaubert And they can do that small ball in spurts And not have to die by it like the Lakers did I think that could be there could be a world Where that gives a Timberwell enough trouble Whenever they're not seeing it for 48 straight minutes Like they did against LA That that could bog them down
Starting point is 00:55:34 And to me it comes down to what Jimmy Butler Looks like offensively Post injury He didn't have that playoff Jimmy juice Or even like earlier in the series In the series season post trade juice He looks like he's hobbled a little bit We'll see how that heals over time.
Starting point is 00:55:50 If that's going to be an issue, they probably won't win the series. But if Jimmy has an extra level to get to and can provide more offensive value than he did in those last three games, that could give them enough to be able to really make that Wolf's defense struggle. The Will's defense is really good. It's not immune. It's not like, it's like the Thunder defense where we can count them in as being the best in the league no matter who they go against. Yeah. They don't have the perimeter offenders that Houston obviously at R.K.C. has, obviously.
Starting point is 00:56:11 So I do think the Timberwolves are going to win, but if we see some of those things go the other way and we see them struggle against that Draymond Green center defense, and we see Jimmy have a good series where he exerts himself physically against some of the small defenders in the same way Luke did last year on the Mavericks, whenever he was really able to get into Jada McDaniel's chest, Mike Conley obviously, Don't Stevensonzo, not the biggest guys. If Jimmy's able to get some of his bully ball game stuff off,
Starting point is 00:56:33 that could make it interesting because that could really limit the Timber Wolves' death and how much they can deploy certain lineups without size, I think it'll go six or seven. I think depending on what version of the Warriors we get health-wise, that will determine if it does go full seven, but I'd be shocked if it's like five games or anything crazy. I don't know if I would be shocked if it was five games just because at this point
Starting point is 00:56:55 we've seen we've seen Ant also elevate to a level where it's not only his scoring but it's his playmaking. It's his decision making that even if the warriors are doing certain things defensively, he's making easier and simpler reach just to allow the offense to keep flowing. And that is a major step for him. And so if he's going out, he's scoring 20. and you know still keeping the ball moving that's massive win for for minnesota one thing that kind of scares me and it's not going to it's not going to scare me until it presents itself
Starting point is 00:57:27 but in that in this rocket series you saw how physical it was draymond green was madman right normal draymond green stuff however he picked up two two flagrant points once you get to four it's a one-game suspension. And it's, I'm halfway joking, but I'm also halfway not. You have Rudy Gaubert on the opposite side. And so like, I'm saying, that's what I'm saying. And so I don't know, like we've seen Dremont. He slapped Fred Van Bleet in the face for no reason the other day.
Starting point is 00:58:00 And so I was like, can he stay, you know, composed and controlled enough to where him and his flagrant points doesn't become an issue because I can 100% see. a situation where we get to game five and it's been four games and it's super physical and all this and draymond is out here flailing and doing all this stuff and now draymond suspended for game five and it's tied to two and now you have a situation so like again i'm half i'm halfway joking about i'm kind of not no i know what you're saying no you make a good point i guess let me rephrase that if the timber wolves win i could see them definitely winning like with these now that you're
Starting point is 00:58:34 mentioned that especially because the fact that the series is happening 48 hours after game seven of the Warriors playing against the Rockets and before the playoffs even started, we said whoever comes out at this Rockets versus Warrior series that we all think is going to go seven to immediately go from seven game of war with these physical teams
Starting point is 00:58:50 to whoever plays the second round is probably going to have a little more rest that's going to make a big difference and the Timberwolves are probably feeling spry their legs probably feel fine. They did not have to physically exert themselves that hard against the Lakers team. So that could definitely be a big deal
Starting point is 00:59:03 if it turns out that Timberwolves are able to just physically overwhelm the Warriors that they have too many small guys that they can poke at. Julius Randall has a great series again. J. McDaniels continues his stretch of being the biggest guy on the court, as he says, and exerting himself there. You're right.
Starting point is 00:59:16 I can see a world where that just overwhelms the Warriors and the damn breaks and they just get flooded. If the Warriors win, it's going to be a long series. There's no way they flood the Timberwolves. Yeah, I don't think, I don't know if they're capable, especially at this point in the playoffs. I don't know if they're capable of winning a series of five. Yeah. If they are, it has to be something cataclysmic has happened for the Minnesota's and rules, and they've exploited the first.
Starting point is 00:59:39 living fuck out of Rigo Bear. And also on top of that, too, I do think we're going to have a much better naturally, Steph Curry series. He felt he faced a halacious defense as a couple nights ago. He talked about how he's never felt face a defense so physical compared to
Starting point is 00:59:55 when it comes to the Houston Rockets. And now that of course, like the Minnesota Timberl has an elite defense, but they're not top five or six. I think they land around like top seven or nine for the regular season. And so it's a different type of defense. It's a more interior face defense compared to the use of rogons where they get beat your ass from
Starting point is 01:00:13 fucking anywhere yeah and so i think they're gonna find they're definitely gonna find ways to exploit that and i do i i feel like the series is probably going to go to six potentially seven i won't be surprised at all and that's gonna and there's gonna be so much blood on step kursaing because of that so much blood on his hands good lord he's gonna be a murderer yeah this one's just this one's hard to gauge because like it's so extreme in his outcomes that like the timber rules could dominate the warriors that's not out of the realm possibility or the warriors could do their veteran stuff they could it could be draymond versus rudy go bear of old where we see the small ball give a little trouble so you know makes him
Starting point is 01:00:50 one on the margins and the series goes long like lots of outcomes here it's you can't really feel confident either way but i do think you could probably feel confident that timbrewell's winning either way so that's why i'm going to them but i agree we don't know which version of the series we're yeah for sure two biggest x factors in my rest my case my case is rested i do feel like jermar green and his ability to hold his temperatech or whatever is a fucking major x factor and also so is jimmy butler's health because they're not going to be able to get away with jimmy butler putting up like 11 points like the timbrewolds have way too many options offensively to let that happen you can you need you need to make up space and cover from somewhere and so jimmy bowler has to
Starting point is 01:01:33 to be not like super saying Jimmy Butler but can you give me like 17 on a consistent basis because you can't afford anything less than that. No, yeah, you're right. Jimmy Butler's health is probably the biggest swing factor here because I 100% agree. You need elite second option Jimmy Butler.
Starting point is 01:01:47 It can't be going with the motion whatsoever. Yeah. But on the topic of the Golden State Warriors before we end the stream, we have one more Golden State Warriors-related thing to do. I ask you guys to give us your best NBA hot takes relating to the Golden State Warriors
Starting point is 01:02:01 and we are going to rate them from 1 to 10. Chat, I hope y'all cooked because last week, you did not. Yep, you gave us a lot of playoff hot takes a couple weeks ago. They were all related to Kauai Leonard, and I did not as well. I'll say that. You guys had a lot of hot things about Kauai being better than star X, Y, and Z. Tough. So we'll see what you guys did.
Starting point is 01:02:17 We got a variety of takes here about Warriors currently, Warriors in the past, Steph's legacy, Katie's legacy, Clay's legacy, et cetera. We're going to let you guys know how we feel with utmost honesty. And chat, I want you guys to also rate these and let us know what you think about your fellow chat members, hot takes. do it. Number one, we got Kyrie Legion, who said, Draymond Green, the right of his peak years,
Starting point is 01:02:39 has had more impact on winning than a lot of top 15 players in the league at that point. So I say this to say, is Draymond like a top 10 player in the league for you at his peak? That's the hot take, essentially. It sounds weird, but I'm going to say, yeah. Like, he had, as much as Steph, like, transcended the game with his offense and what he's been able to do with a three-point shot, Jamon Green deserves 100 or 10% to be up there as a defensive player in himself
Starting point is 01:03:05 And making like small ball didn't start with him But he like perfected that shit Yeah he is the one who he enabled the rest of the Lee To begin to start doing a lot of the shit that he does Yeah any given year it's tough because let's say the number he said 15 Any given year it's tough what we have to actually look to see who the top 15 players were in 2018 or whatever But to the spirit of the question I do not disagree I think it's a W take I'll give it a 9 out of 10 And you guys know who I feel.
Starting point is 01:03:32 I think Drummond Green is the best defensive player of a generation. He's one of the best defensive players of all time. The whole idea of people talking now that double bigs is back, small ball's gone. Small ball was never here in any type of serious fashion of winning championships. Unless you had Draymond Green on your team, all the other modern champions played big. The Lakers ran double bigs. The Bucks ran double bigs. The Celtics have KP and Al Horford.
Starting point is 01:03:54 The only team that has really won with small ball in any serious fashion is Draymond Green led team. so and they still had they still had kd you still outside yeah yeah you still had had katie who's seven two yeah probably iggy had a crazy wingspan before that you were playing with boge it so like they've always had a big i'm gonna give this for a hot take i'm gonna give it 10 out 10 i don't agree with it though just because the the NBA Twitter word of the week is amplifier and you you see you know you've seen a lot of people i saw that yeah you've seen a lot of people been using that that word shout out zack low but and so like i think when you fit into that you fit into that category like obviously you are you are great but just from a team building like we're
Starting point is 01:04:33 winning games draymond's impact is allowed to happen because he's playing on the floor with step and so like obviously he can go other places and he would still be a really good defender but he's able to be maximized and amplify everything because of that situation so i'm not going to give him that necessarily but listen shot shot too it's pretty bold though yeah i view Draymond the same way when I hype up Chad Holgren and why I'd rather have him over certain guys who are first options on their team, they're the bucket geter, they're the playmaker,
Starting point is 01:05:03 they're the playmaker, whatever. Amplifiers are a good word if we're going to use that. I would a lot of times rather have the guy who's going to be my defensive anchor best defensive player in the league any given year and make everybody better offensively with their role player skills that serve to amplify people and make them better with the floor spacing
Starting point is 01:05:18 with the passing, etc. Dremont Green is probably the most extreme version of that in NBA history. He is the amplifier. He defines that. He is the definition of an amplifier. Yeah, and I value that greatly. I would rather have that than a guy who can masquerade as a first option that will get you exactly nowhere. I'd rather have that over a Bradley Biel
Starting point is 01:05:33 or whoever may be that can go out and get you 30, but it will amount to jack shit. Give me the goddamn amplifier. Bradley Biel just in Cancun, killing. There's Pena Collada, bro. So, yeah, tap to you in the chat said mid-onball options. Exactly. Give me the amplifier over the mid-on-ball options every time.
Starting point is 01:05:49 Next up, winning one more ring will put him, that being stuff, above Magic Johnson as the goat point guard. Do you think with one more ring You're gonna put Steph in top five all time convos Putting him above magic Those conversations are very very hot And when we say one more ring
Starting point is 01:06:05 Let's say it's this ring this year I was just about to say if it was this ring this year That would shock the entire NBA world NBA world because they were not the favorites Not the first second or fucking third bro So if they were to do this shit Steph went on a god tier run And he would this ring would feel
Starting point is 01:06:21 Exactly like that 2020 ring Which we all know is like one of the weaker champion teams, not to say this Warriors team is better than that team. This slanted. But in general, he says that every time we bring up this 2022. Dude, it's a bitch-made team. I'm sorry. I'm not doing no original revisionist history.
Starting point is 01:06:39 Andrew Wiggins that year was fucking fire. No, I agree. Yeah, compared to the rest or not that. And this team right here isn't one of the best teams. They started out like 21 and like two. Like they were, they were fantastic. Just compared to the other, compared to the standard of what a championship team is. I think they're better.
Starting point is 01:06:55 Just because you don't understand teamwork at its place. I love it. Nothing here or there. I think I respect them a little bit more than you do, but I understand your sentiment, so it's not crazy. Point to say is like he would surpass Magic Johnson. Yeah, five rings is a lot. If Steph Curry has five rings while being the most influential player of his generation,
Starting point is 01:07:10 potentially the best point guard score of all time, potentially the best, how do I phrase this? Most elevating non-passer, I don't know, the most impactful score to making people better in how he was shooting Benz the Court. If he has all these accolades and all these arguments for Benz the court, best offensive peak ever, best so-and-so-ever, there's the best player on the best team ever, all these things.
Starting point is 01:07:30 If you put a fifth ring on his finger, it's pretty goddamn hard to deny his place on Mount Rushmore. Quick question. 04 pistons and 22 Warriors. Shit, bro. This is a nasty as hell. I'm mean, worries, of course, naturally because I got the best player
Starting point is 01:07:42 by far on the court. But it's a break fast. It's not a... I don't think that teams as bad as you think. I think when you revisit this whole Warriors' conversation. He just hates that. I don't hate him. I just look at them.
Starting point is 01:07:53 016 or 22 Warriors. Over the last. over the last seven years they are the worst championship I think they might beat the 21 bucks they beat the 21 bucks I don't know but then again
Starting point is 01:08:04 we're also but the 21 bucks are like bottom tiered team too as well we're also doing the same thing now where we're revisionizing the bucks a little bit everyone's mislaring them as of late because the bucks were not sad so many years
Starting point is 01:08:13 that was a great team so let me not let me not fall into it yeah they're a good team look I think you would agree if Steph wins the ring he can be the go point guard he can't he can be it's a yeah it's a discussion
Starting point is 01:08:23 yeah so a team Yeah, it would be neck and neck. It would be a point where you can have a preference because they're accolades match and there's so much that can go either way that I think you could feasibly say it's a tie. You can't be mad either side. 10 out of 10. What's next? We have since 2014, never has Kevin Durant been more impactful for a team than Steph and Curry has,
Starting point is 01:08:42 especially when they were playing together. Curry was the best player on all the championship teams by a long shot. This was his comment. I am laying on my stomach. I'm kicking my feet up. I'm so happy reading this. Steph was better. has always been better
Starting point is 01:08:56 don't ever get a twist it has like Steph better it was always his team me and Donovan were saying this shit in 2018 freshman year of college we were getting yelled at until three o'clock in the morning
Starting point is 01:09:05 we were in the group chat saying Steph better we've been on this hill for as long as we know each other Steph is better I do understand I don't think it's like
Starting point is 01:09:14 egregious maybe I'm a little bit less on this hills than I was back then back then I was like what do you mean you like Katie Moore are you insane I do I've come to be a Katie
Starting point is 01:09:22 appreciator I do think it's neck and neck talent-wise, but if we do a lot of impact stuff, we do a lot of who makes players around them better stuff and we save those convos for other players. We don't do it with Steph in the macro sense. I think if you're ever going to do impact versus talent, this is the argument for it. Understand we got, we just got a buddy heel legacy game because of Steph Curry. Like he was out here getting double team and they, I saw somebody tweeted this out,
Starting point is 01:09:49 they were double teaming Steph and leaving the guy who had 22 points in the first half wide open. That's because of Steph at 37, picture, and I don't have to go get the screenshots, but picture what they were doing with a prime Steph Curry, 28-year-old Steph Curry, leaving Kevin Durant and Clay Thompson wide open on the wings. They are flooding and they are doubling to Steph Curry because his shooting ability, especially at his peak, is greater than anybody's, you know, singular skill ever. Yeah, ever. Yeah.
Starting point is 01:10:21 And so I do think that just because of that, like, in that in that moment he was but this is like the ultimate like close debate like this is like two 99 overall players like yeah it's so unbelievably close that you've got a nitpick and I feel like I feel like the people who think Katie's better are so visceral in it
Starting point is 01:10:38 where they're like what are you talking about you think that little motherfucker who can't play defense is better than the seven foot demon are you an idiot the hang as he pulls all the knee as hell they're so extreme with it that they can't even fathom thick and curry's better and I don't know man it's close I'm the other head thing I do agree with you guys
Starting point is 01:10:53 I've been on the on the on the Steph Curry been better like since day one but on the other hand like to try to be the antagonize to try to like devil's advocate of this conversation like yeah I understand it because on the simple face of things like the buckets that KD did get were special generation of course but I pay my attention I'm me personally I would talk about more so his defensive impact and what he was able to do on those warriors seems I think that's like really like the difference after I was to be one. The question for you, though, how did he have so much energy to play defense? Oh, yeah, it's because offense was so easy because Steph Curtis is making it an easy job for everybody. Like, again, I do, I do understand it, but you're also, you are-Taddy was in defense. I understand. I don't condone it, though. Yeah. Next one, we got, if Draymond didn't punch Jordan Poole, they'd still be a title contender right now.
Starting point is 01:11:45 So the question is, do you, so they think they're kind of contenders now, so maybe it's a bad framing? But do you think they'd be title favorites if this team still had Jordan Poole and didn't trade him for Chris Paul's salary that they let walk and got absolutely no value for. You could low-key just inject Jordan Poole into this team one-for-one with the path that they went on. You wouldn't make, you wouldn't lose anything. Like, you could still get Jimmy Butler. So imagine they had Jimmy Butler and Jordan Poole. Would that be the difference?
Starting point is 01:12:09 That would help a lot. Jimmy, Jimmy, Boer would eat so much. Jordan Poole eats so much for Jimmy Buller. I don't know right now if, man, this is tough. So his question is, would they be, would you feasibly be able to say they could beat the Thunder in the playoff series if they had Jordan Poole? I would say yes. I would say yes.
Starting point is 01:12:28 Because I think the confidence that Jordan Poole was already playing with in like 21 and in 22 was insane now. Were there, there were really, really bad moments in the finals where he wasn't really He looked small out there. Yeah, he was small. He wasn't playing great defense. I do think that that would be something. But also they're playing like, like they've been.
Starting point is 01:12:53 played buddy healed in this you know like they've leaned on on him they've leaned on on pretty bad defenders and especially now that they are post clay how just having somebody who can dribble the ball and kind of create for themselves would alleviate so much pressure off of step off of jimmy butler having three of those guys would be would be very very key i okay i'll do it i'll give that like a nine out of ten yeah i'll give a seven out of ten i don't think they'd be able to beat the thunder but they'd be serious and you guys know how i feel about the way they handled that chris ball salary i hate every bit of it i'd hate the trade in the mom moment, W take, we'll give it to you.
Starting point is 01:13:26 I give it to you. Next up, 2022 was the best warrior's championship. Do you got to define best? So, okay, so I guess what he probably means is, he's not going to say it's the best team. Is it the most impressive championship they had? All things considered, is it, if you're ranking a championship on like legacy points, which combines how good they are, who they be, how impressive it is, et cetera, is this their highest rate of championship?
Starting point is 01:13:46 It's hard to make this bowl statement when 2015 exists for me. Good point. Because that's, in my mind. that has the real argument to be the best because they initially came onto the scene. Of course, we were all put on to aware of being like the strength and numbers thing. I don't know.
Starting point is 01:14:02 You're shaking your head for it. 2015 is great and it's awesome. Yeah. I think the conversation, it has to go between 22 and 17 because of how dominant 17 was. Because you showed up into the gym and we showed up in that season and knew
Starting point is 01:14:18 that nobody's beating this team and they ran through through the playoffs they lost one game i think it was in the finals like they were some you know you're playing you're playing lebron lebrons he's going to get a game but you go 16 and one in the playoffs you dominate everybody like it it was so easy for them to do it yes it was easier yes they stacked the deck or whatever all that i probably agree macro wise end of the day there's a reasonable argument that's the greatest team of all time if you say you have the greatest team to ever exist in the history of the association and it's 78 years
Starting point is 01:14:49 whatever it's been probably got to give that to them is their best championship Okay. When I think about like best championship, my mind, I'm also thinking about like, okay, like what's the most like impressive too. But I guess different words. For Curry's legacy, 2020 is the best one. For the Warriors franchise legacy, 2017 is probably the best one. Yeah, okay. But for Curry specifically, 2022 is certainly the best one. Okay. Gotcha. If developed correctly, pods can easily be a top 10 shooting guard in the league. L, one out of 10, zero out of 10. Oh my God. I don't know. I'll say, calm down. The shooting guard list is not. Every year when we do ranking season the shooting guard list is always the one where we get to like eight nine and ten it's
Starting point is 01:15:26 like they in this position kind of stuff we've all had some bad takes over time not to put this one on blast but you did rank jalen green number eight and that was that was reason that was a i was fake that's big as a bitch i'm not here i'm not here i'm not here footage it is not me i don't want to really to get your jalen green take but i will say that you felt comfortable putting jalen green in those talks you might feel comfortable putting pods in those talks one day this the pool is not deep desmond bane is like six or seven doesn't bean is a very good potential fringe all-star i agree if you tell me pods gets within striking distance of Desmond Bain
Starting point is 01:15:55 in the best case scenario, if developed correctly, I guess it's not impossible. Pods getting striking distance of Desmond, that's so much good she's going to have to have to happen for Podsville. I just think the bar for number 10 shooting going to league is probably lower than we're thinking right now. It's probably not very high at all.
Starting point is 01:16:11 Man. I don't know who I put at 10, but I'm looking, oh my God. It might be Janet sucks. Right now. So 6 through 10, you're 6 through 10. This is last summer. Yeah, last summer. 6 Levine 7 Caruso 8 Beal 9 McCollum 10 Devon Vassel for you Oh Paz could definitely be as good as Devon Fusel
Starting point is 01:16:29 For you for you six Levine seven Anthony Simons Eight Dante Divencinozzio Nine Jalen Green 10 Alice Caruso Hey this is a double you take this man can certainly be as good as Devon Vassel one day I'd listen it's it's it's lofty I don't know if I'm predicting it But if you don't tell me in the best case scenario if you get the best version of pause development he can be the 10th best shooting guard in the league and be as good as Devin Vassell? I believe you.
Starting point is 01:16:53 Yeah. Mine, just for the record, six Caruso, seven Reeves, eight Malik Monk, nine McCullum, 10, Zach Levine. This man can be as good as Malik Monk, I promise you. Oh my God. Herb Jones, I need you to come a fucking live next year, bro. Dyson Daniels, please prove it to him
Starting point is 01:17:09 once again. Holy fuck. Save me. Ranking season is really the Wild West, man. I know. It's a summer. Everything changed so fast. J.P. Talks 101 says if Curry had been traded before he became a super the Warriors still would have won at least two championships. I'm not going to lie, brother. One of the stupidest takes I've ever heard.
Starting point is 01:17:26 I hate this. Dummy. We've had too many good ones. I'm sorry, JP. We've had a lot of W takes up here. You had to be the sacrificial lamb. This is the first L take of the episode. Big L.
Starting point is 01:17:34 I know what you're getting at. Maybe if they got Kevin Durant, and it was Drayman, Kevin Durant, Clay Thompson, Andre Gooddow. They could still win one. They probably never get close to signing Kevin Durant. If they don't have Step Curry there to attract him, L take.
Starting point is 01:17:46 Yeah, he's going to Boston. If Steph is not there, he's not going there. Nope. Sorry, JP. Corey Green says, Steph is one of the most skilled and complete players ever easily.
Starting point is 01:17:57 And then a bunch of other stuff he gets more specific. But do you think Steph has an argument for the most skilled player of all time is the hot take? The most skilled player of all time. Typically when you hear this conversation, people just immediately think about
Starting point is 01:18:07 like bag work. They line Kyrie's name into they line Alan Ivers' name into Alan Ivers's name in two. But Steph probably like deserves to be at the very top of that conversation. conversation simply because just hit joke think about being so insanely good at one thing people think about all your other skills as like secondary and even at it you look at every category of
Starting point is 01:18:30 player that matters defense passing dunking finishing scoring shooting whatever they all have a variety of mixture of athleticism and skill shooting is the one I think that is entirely skill there's like hardly any element of athleticism in traditional sense and he's the best ever at this thing by far that is entirely skill based That alone gets you there. Then you get into the off-all movement and how that's the skill, the cardio, the playmaking is still good.
Starting point is 01:18:53 He still do on-ball reps. He's a very good finisher, has the vintage high off the backward. He's a good finisher. He has defensive traits that are good. He's not just a cone. He's far from the worst defensive guard of his generation.
Starting point is 01:19:05 A lot of other skills, very well-rounded player. It's not ridiculous. When people think about this, they think of the guy who has the best combination of mid-range jump shooting and ball handling.
Starting point is 01:19:15 That's typically what comes to from most people. I think Seth has his given argument mean as any of those guys. I agree. All right, we can, we can go, yeah, we can go skilled. I'm stopping at complete. Yeah, I didn't, I didn't say that for me.
Starting point is 01:19:27 He's not one of the most complete players of all time. But skills, I think to be complete, you got to have a ton of athleticism to be one of the most complete players. Yeah. Yeah, you, you can't, you can't be a, and it wasn't all like his fault, but he was the weak point on the, on the, on the defense. Like, you can't, you can't have that for like half a decade. You almost have to be really tall
Starting point is 01:19:48 To be one of the most complete players of all time Yeah, it's forced I mean it's no I mean it's no shock Why like all the greatest players of all time Are literally bulletproof And there's nothing that you do about it Because they're naturally fucking bigger
Starting point is 01:20:00 So yeah It's natural And being complete being large as part of it Exactly yeah Yeah, I'm in this sport Steph Curry easily peaks higher Than Kobe Bryant in their best years Ah fuck
Starting point is 01:20:10 Now easily is easily is disrespectful But as you guys know how I feel We had this argument last year in our great debates episode. I'm of the opinion that I'm taking 2016 Sef Curry
Starting point is 01:20:20 or rainy version of Kobe personally is it easily to you guys I think easily might be dramatic but you know where I stand I say this I'm gonna throw this whole
Starting point is 01:20:27 take in the trash simply because they used the wrong there and so I'm not gonna and so I'm not gonna address this I'm getting out of this one T-E-R-E Tapcio Trevito
Starting point is 01:20:39 you were not hooked on phonics I just spelled that wrong while looking at this thing He's actually in the chat Tap Teptio you were not hooked on phonics as a kid you use the wrong there and therefore your take is disregarded. Oh my god
Starting point is 01:20:50 Tatillo, what is going on right now? Are you good? Grammar. Shit, man. Spell. Yeah, I'm off this. But this is a good debate though. I can't, you can't be mad to somebody picking Kobe, but I'm with the opinion that stuff. I'd rather have his best version. So, I'm going to go 9 out of 10. It's a good take. I'm not
Starting point is 01:21:06 going to go 10 because you said easily and that's a bit extreme, but I'll go 9. I'm going to say 7 out of 10. Yeah, that's fair. Neasily is much, much too much for me. Yeah, the chasm is a huge there. Yeah. 73 and 9 Warriors would lose to the 2024 Celtics if fully healthy. So would the best team with the best regular season team of all time be able to beat last year's Celtics team?
Starting point is 01:21:28 This is how I know you're a child. No, they're getting destroyed. The reason for the take that we just read was because 2016 Steph is one of the best players of all time. and had they had draymond green not flicked his hand they beat lebron james in five games they beat lebron james and kair irving in five games right like they are they are absolutely insane and you talk you talk about drew hollett you're getting prime draymond green Andre igo dala clay thompson pre-surgery like the defenders that they had as crazy yeah it's also insane yeah i've respected 24 Celtics very much actually and I think they'd be able to beat a lot of teams that you want that you
Starting point is 01:22:13 probably think are better than them because of their clout essentially not this one this is where it does the line man the 22 warriors beat the 23 said like I've yeah but the 24 you know KP and drew made a big difference like I don't care okay like like I think the 24 Celtics would probably beat the 22 warriors maybe they would I'm on most side with this one but I think they decisively beat that team but 73 I mean he hates the team exactly I don't hate him but I'm just like but I'm letting rip off to me a little bit in this conversation I might do a little hate to myself.
Starting point is 01:22:41 But no, 73-9 is a different tier. But I respect the Celtics enough to not give you a terrible grade. I'll go 4 to 10. Now, I'm going 22 over everybody. Okay, fuck it. There's the goats. There's the goats. Dremont Green is the best defender of his generation.
Starting point is 01:22:54 One out of 10 because it's not a hot take. Like, this is just... Facts? It's kind of just facts. Okay. Bad hot take, but good take. It's either him or Rudy Gaubert or Quay Leonard. Tremon Green has the longevity, the impact of success, over all of them.
Starting point is 01:23:07 Yeah, he's one. He's won. Because on top of, like, on top of the peak, his versatility is what separates him from Kauai and from, and from Gobert. And the fact that he's able to do what both of those guys do at a high, high level. Yeah, he got it. Yeah. Being able to masquerade as your lead center defender while also like manning down the perimeter as well is a rare skill that he is the only one to master being elite at both. We've seen other rim protectors as good as Rudy Gobert.
Starting point is 01:23:38 we've seen other perimeter defenders as good as kauai i don't think there's ever been a defensive player as versatile as him i feel like he's probably the number one most defensive the versatile player of all time yeah it's either like him or rodman and even then like he's probably a little bit more versatile yeah yeah i don't know if robin is also paid top number two so i don't want to say anything disrespectful but he's doing in the modern NBA where mobility requires a lot more versatility because you have to be on the perimeter a lot more than he did back then robin can probably do it as well like like young rodman could definitely do all the things that that Draymond does, he just doesn't have the luxury being in this, today's NBA.
Starting point is 01:24:13 So, like, that has had to show a lot more versatility, so he has a luxury of being able to say he had to do more. Yeah. Robin today would be interesting. He'd probably be Jared Vanderbilt on offense, but it would be fantastic defensively. He'd be Draymond. He'd be the closest thing. I mean, yeah, if you took like 87, but if you, if you told him, like, here's five years
Starting point is 01:24:28 in A and then go do you, like he can be. I think he'd be a lot better rim finisher than Vanderbilt, I imagine. He'd probably have you'd do some type of pick and roll. We did that one. Draymond Green was a third best player on the 2018 Warriors by a mile. So this is basically saying Draymond Green versus Clay.
Starting point is 01:24:49 W take 10 out of 10. I've been on this wagon forever. People market the splash bros as a duo so everybody assumes that Clay is the best non-KD teammate of Steph Curry. Draymon's always in the most important player there to me. Yeah, that makes sense.
Starting point is 01:25:03 I will say that simply because of how many aspects of the court that draymond touches at at the most elite level possible like when it comes to clay and his responsibilities on this team and on this court simply just be the best be the best three point shooter second best two point shoot on the court alongside stuff and do what you do defensively his job i don't want to say it's easy of course but with the value that they look like a completely different team without draymond compared to like without clay a lot of what he does seems they can fill in the gaps with like a few role players well draymond he is uh without him
Starting point is 01:25:38 on the court, he's up. They're a difference. To make the argument for Clay, you have to use a lot of hypotheticals. You have to say like, oh, well, if they allowed him to do this or if this was the situation. So it's like, even on that, on that level,
Starting point is 01:25:53 I'm sorry. I'm not going to do the hypothetical conversation with you in that sense. Dremont Green had a role, had an entire side of the floor that he operated and was able to master it. And there are results, the championships based on what he did.
Starting point is 01:26:08 and based on his impact so I will it's a 10 out of 10 We did too much Ramon Glazer right now man this is too much but it was all facts Steve Curry
Starting point is 01:26:16 is a mid-coach carried by talent No he's not I want to say incorrect like carried by talent every league coach
Starting point is 01:26:29 is fucking carried by talent there has to be talent on there it's a prerequisite you can't you can't be the league coach without having necessary players in place
Starting point is 01:26:35 not going to give him attacks for playing with Steph Curry he got the most side of him. What he did offensively is revolutionary. His ability to manage personalities is the best ever. Not best ever, but best of a generation. That's like defining trait of his. And one thing we've noticed as of late. Wait, how is that a defining trait of his? He just lets Jemond be Jermon be crazy without saying anything. A lot of
Starting point is 01:26:54 coaches would not be able to manage Draymond. A lot of coaches would not be able to manage Draymond. They'd be terrified. No one would be. Every put put you in a room with Dremont Green, you're going to let him do his thing, bro. He might throw a cookboard over your Like, you say it as a joke, that is an immense, immense notch on his resume to keep Dremont Green in line and get the best out of him. To reel him in from where he was last year, do, Steph Curry was crying on the court because Dremont couldn't control him. Post Jordan Poole, he was crashing out hard.
Starting point is 01:27:23 It looked like he was bad. It looked like it was like, we've seen Crash House before. It was like the end. Yeah, like end careers. Dramont, I mean, probably also Dremont thing for him navigating that and getting out of that mental gym he was in. So shout out that. somebody in the chat said his inability
Starting point is 01:27:36 to develop young talent needs to be talked about. Sure, that's not a strength. They also fucking suck at drafting young talent. Have you noticed that? Have you noticed that young players and you guys are mad he doesn't develop aren't that good usually?
Starting point is 01:27:47 And we've seen a lot of track record that if Steve Kerr doesn't want to play you and thinks you don't have the juice, you probably don't have the juice. He's probably right most of the time. How many players have left the Warriors got a chance and made something out of it? Not a lot of people.
Starting point is 01:28:01 I'm also giving him credit. Most people who leave the Warriors immediately fall off. Yeah, out of the league in a year and a half. Yeah. He developed his players 12 years ago. They got, he got, he got, he got with Steph. They won, they won 16, 17 more games.
Starting point is 01:28:13 Yeah. He got, he got with Draymond, made him some random second round pig and said, you're going to be in the started lineup. You get to play. Clay Thompson, same thing. So he's been eating off of his own development for the last 12, 13 years. And it's fine, right? It's not, listen, it's not my fault.
Starting point is 01:28:26 Yeah, can't, can't step into the role. Yeah, if you, if you, I'm, whatever, whatever, whatever. Last one, the 2016, 27. 17 Warriors would get smoked by the 96 Bulls. I think you're smoking. That is the only smoke that's going on. You're correct. Yeah, in any context, smoked is kind of wild.
Starting point is 01:28:46 Yeah, I mean, in case you can tell, we are a very pro-prime Warriors podcast. We are big warriors or specters, so you're not going to get a good response out of us for this take. I'm going to give you an L. But a shout out of you and your 90s nostalgia. I swear to you out,
Starting point is 01:29:00 with the way I'm going to be talking about this team when I'm like 50 years old, My kids don't think like the real life devil came with something and played on the goddamn basketball. Hey man, they ruined my life
Starting point is 01:29:10 when I was 16, 17 years old, bro. I have nothing to look forward to. No friends. I just had my straight homework, bro, and I'm watching LeBron James play basketball. And he can't even do that
Starting point is 01:29:20 at a fair level, too. This guy was a loser. Definition of a loser, bro. It was LeBron or nothing. That was it. This guy was a fucking dork. Fuck, right?
Starting point is 01:29:29 They didn't do shit. No parties. My dad didn't let me join a wrestling team. Fuck, bro. No prom date Fuck, bro I was on my ass No maidens
Starting point is 01:29:39 I had no haircuts Fuck bro No line up No date No clout No fit No money No car
Starting point is 01:29:48 I had no license either I was on my ass Oh yeah Bad take L take zero out of 10 2017 Warriors I think would win I don't know
Starting point is 01:29:58 You could say for their era You could debate it If you're debating a Who would win one on one We've had this conversation Many times have 20 plus years of X's and those developments, it would be insane to think that doesn't matter. So give me the 17 Warriors as a Goat Team. I agree.
Starting point is 01:30:13 And with that being said, that's the end of the stream. They did a lot better with these hot takes this time around. Last time they're on some. I feel like we were mad agreeable in this one, though. I feel like we agree with a lot of them. That's why he likes it. Everyone's everyone was pantering the way he thinks already. Yeah, man. Appreciate all coming through. Good stream. Let's go watch this Warriors game. See how it goes. Who's up right now? Pace is up right now. Yep. Let's see if the next. Knicks can make something to happen in the series
Starting point is 01:30:35 and we will I hope so but I also will love to laugh at you if they don't amen we'll see you all on Friday
Starting point is 01:30:42 for the next week's episode

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