The Deep 3 Podcast - The TRUTH About The Luka vs Shai Debate | TD3 Clips

Episode Date: December 10, 2025

Luka Doncic vs Shai Gilgeous-Alexander is the NBA's best debate! #nba Check out the TD3 merch: https://the-deep-3-shop.fourthwall.com/ Listen on Spotify!: https://open.spotify.com/show/3elbbqVumwqz8wlIdknsLW Listen on Apple Podcasts!: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-deep-3-podcast/id1657940794 Follow us on TikTok!: https://www.tiktok.com/@thedeepthree Follow us on Instagram!: https://www.instagram.com/thedeep3podcast/ Isaac's twitter: https://twitter.com/byisaacg Mo's twitter: https://twitter.com/Mojo99_ Donnavan's twitter: https://twitter.com/Dsmoot3D Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

There's a lot of Lucaslander on NBA Twitter right now. The discourse bubble is doing a lot of re-evaluation, I think, of Luca's strengths and weaknesses. If you can win with him, is he hard in? This is probably coming off of the heels of him being fat last year and all that discourse about him, not being what he once was. Did Nico Harrison make a smart decision selling off him when he did? That's kind of been in the air a lot, right? Saw this tweet. So not going to lie, the Luca career really evaluation and overreaction is all due to SGA's rise.

It's sad, but you never really see. see superstars get lap this badly SGA is so much better than Luca that people are asking why Luca hasn't done more. The truth is that nothing has changed with Luca. Okay, he said Lapis badly. That's where he lost me. Luca just went to the finals the year prior. Luca just beat OKC

the year prior in like six games, I believe. Yeah, but I mean see I feel like that. Laptist crazy. That's overstated but yeah, that is a good point. So that's the argument everybody in the comments is talking about. Is the gap, how big you think that gap is? And I guess I brought this up to say this maybe he's been dramatic right and maybe

Obviously, Luca is still a tier one player. I think it's pretty easy to say you'd rather have SGA for certain reasons linked to play style. And it is also interesting that I think he's right that Luca is getting slanted because of SGA. If SGA wasn't doing this and didn't become one of the best players in the world, winning a championship as a guard,

I don't think we'd see nearly as much Luka slander. I think we'd probably give Luca way more of a pass for last year. Okay, probably, I think like, with Luca, honestly, I do think it's, I think the biggest thing it's not even like the chip. I think the biggest thing is the lack of MVP. Yeah, that doesn't help either. I think that's the biggest one because obviously you get into playoff scenarios

and playoff situations and you can have series like a PJ Washington going crazy. You can have these really weird things that happen for seven games that kind of puts your team over the edge. The regular season is, okay, you're that guy. Let's go out and see you do it. And so for somebody who's been first team all NBA since his second season and who is racking up all of these other accolades, why don't you have the MVP when you are putting up these numbers and you have never done it for an entire year. Very true. And so I think from

that perspective, I can see where you, where you look at at Luca and say like, yeah, he's getting lapped. Because SGA actually has done it and we've been waiting for you to do it and you still haven't done it. Exactly. You're describing the exact. I think you're taking the other view of it for me by minimizing it where I think that's like a very real psychological thing is that I think the people that see Lapt and they take exception to it like a Luca fan will say like dude what are you talking about? There's still peers

I think Luke is even better actually because of X, Y, Z. I think that's probably tied to people having the early perception that when they came into the league in the first however many years of their career, Luca was was better. Luca's in a different tier. This is not a conversation. He's one of the best players of all time at 21. Shea is an interesting

player getting compared to Deerrin Fox, going to compare to Darius Garland. So now that Shea has kind of catapulted that conversation and been moved up to his peer to even better and more accomplished. A lot of people are going to continue to feel like that's just us overrating SGA. Yeah, the distance traveled is bigger for SGA than it was for Luce. And that creates a psychological divide that some people are probably holding on too hard to Luca being better.

And then some people maybe are doing what this tweet is talking about and considering Shay to shit on Luca's whole reputation and make Luca irrelevant, make him hard in V2, et cetera. Yeah, I agree. And what's interesting about this storyline and I'm very much. interested in seeing how these suit just continue to not i don't i don't know what lucca's going to do for the rest of his career but just seeing sGA's continued continued ascension it's so interesting considering how going back to what you said like we've been wanting to crown lucca don'tch's

MVP at least i feel like over the last three years one of us has consistently said luca's going to win MVP this year the immediate everyone on media always wanted to happen it for it to not happen and lucca just going from i don't know darius garlands the mellow ball with Trey Young conversations. When we first started this show, back in, what, 22 or so, none of us would have taken Trey as a player or would have taken SGA over Trey at all.

We wouldn't have foreseen that coming, especially coming off the run that Trey had. And to see SGA just constantly break barriers that no one thought was possible. And meanwhile, Luke is over here just making first team all MBAs consistently since his second year in the league. I understand what he means.

The gap, you're right. The gap is bigger. Yeah, and this follow tweet is another good point in this thought process. and whether or not it's true or not, but this is a good viewpoint of that. Luca is who's always been, which is the top 30 all-time guy, agreed.

SGA is a top-five top-a-guy, which is probably doing a little too much glaze. But the general point is that Luca didn't get worse. Lucas still is one of the 30 best players of all time. If he never wins a ring, he's Charles Barkley with better production. He might be in that combo

is one of the best players never win a ring, right? In terms of individual talents, Shea is putting together a resume that if he continues on this level, continues at this rate with the team success, he might be aiming higher. Like, he's on a very similar

career trajectory of Steph Curry, whether or not you think he's as good as him individually, not here to argue that, but in terms of slow start, into dominant team, into MVP seasons and finals MVP, et cetera, that's the path he's on. That's why people are viewing him as like a different tier of shape. I mean, a different tier of Luca potentially. It's also hard for for Luca because because he is the the like James Harden successor of play type, you inherently have this play type that historically we haven't seen win. And because, of James Harden's shortcomings and like his specific his specific failings now people kind of put that on on Luca when it's like actually James Hart is just one of the biggest playoff droppers

that we've ever seen and that's not necessarily Luca or in like his play style so you have this you have this bias against the way that that Luca plays you also have this Brian Winhorse moment of you're losing the finals that you probably were going to lose anyways but you have this moment of Brian Winhoor's being like you suck at defense you're the reason why your team is losing and so when you get beat in five games everything comes crashing down on on Luca because he's the one who's out of shape he's the one who can't play defense he's the one that's letting his team down as opposed to Kyrie also not being ready for exactly the moment the rest of the team just also being overmatched by the Celtics so until until Luca gets an MVP or a title I do think that

his chain are like people are going to look at him and it's not going to be like one but it's going to be like multiple of his chains being snatched. You made you make a point just now that I think ties back to my actual opinions on this conversation. You said that people tie him to Hardin for playstyle reasons, which I think is fair. But Hardin gets that negative stink because the playoff dropping. And someone in the chat said, Luca is Hardin without the playoff dropping. And I think that's pretty much true. I think he is a better version of Hardin potentially because he is good in the playoffs and ways that Hardin never was because he has the in between game as a score that Hardin ever had. but he does have a lot of the same drawbacks.

You know, the defense actually has been pretty decent this year, but is always going to cap out at decent. The scoring aggression and the sometimes, like, tunnel vision that can hurt him as his playstyle is always going to be a thing. The lack of transition, being a higher turnover prone player than Shea, et cetera. He's always going to have similar downsize the Hardin, but obviously the strengths way outweigh that. Whereas I think SGA is, like, more similar to the greatest guards of all time

like a Kobe in play style, that I think I'd probably prefer SGA because I think his warts are a little bit less they stand out less yeah like he doesn't have quite as many downsides or maybe you feel like in terms of checking different skills that Luca can do more things at a higher level pretty much the passing

I think that SGA's lack of downside probably makes him a little bit better of a player probably a little more conducive of team success for years to come that I think I do nod Shay as like lapping him in terms of who I think is better but it's not some historic golf or anything yeah it also is and because somebody has said it earlier was like if you put Luca

on the thunder right now Now, where do you think that he is? And like, I don't know if it would go as smoothly. Like, I don't know if they're on pace to win 73 games or whatever it is. But they would also be title contenders. Yeah, that team would still be one of, consider like one of the better teams of whatever, like, weird error that we're in in the NBA. And you saw for half a year when you gave Luca actual defenders and you gave him

another guard they got to the finals and they were able to go on this run so he he does have to have to capitalize on on everything and he better hope that that the lakers who now are who are now breded right yeah are you know austin reeves you get to stay here i have like you have your your running mate and you can build this team around those two and actually get a title contender someone said sGA is more mj than kobe come on y'all are being too calm with this yeah loki oh my gosh i mean yeah loki you're kind of right and i think Some people in the chat said the Thunder with 3P with Luca. What does that mean, though?

To be more MJ than Kobe. I guess we're just raising the bar and sealing your expectation for him and just how good he is. Efficiency is one thing. Relative error, he's a more efficient score. I think a lot of people, that's what people mean when they say that, I think.

And team success is the best player, like potentially going to do a three-peat without a shack. Is that what people mean. And general style of play, he's a little bit more. This is probably relative to air, though. This is probably because this way because Kobe played in the 2000s, but I think they mean he's a little more of a slash

and a little more of a just better version of that, you know, isn't so tough jumper reliant, I guess. But a lot of that combo was just relative to era, I think, that Kobe had to play the weight because of 2000s. Yeah. Because, obviously, like,

you know how I feel about Kobe, but, like, even that in the second half of it, they went to three straight finals. Yeah. Right? And they went back to back. And they did all of those things. So I think even whenever you say,

like, he's more MJ than Kobe, obviously, Kobe, like, if you if you say that then you genuinely are saying that Shay's going to be top five all time and like if you feel that way then okay fine you feel that way I just don't know I don't I don't think that's true right now I think he I think he's very much on the way to being that to top five well he's not gonna record of accolades he's still he didn't like magic one of fucking finals MVP when he was a rookie or actually not he won a finals I

remember he's MVP but they got to start winning right away he's 27 about to win his second title like he's probably too old to rack up as many to be top five but top five peak, especially like I'm on Garz, is it possible that he works his way into being a better peak than Kobe when people talk about 10 years from now? Probably. Possible? Probably. I don't know if I don't know if we'll do it, but it's in the conversation. Yeah, and we'll see at the end of this year because I do think a back-to-back,

a back-to-back now where like if he has one of those things where he, again, like if he completes the what Steph could in 15 and 16, and you have the back-to-back MVPs, you have the record setting season, you have back-to-back titles, that would have put Steph in, especially at that time, it would have legitimized any conversation of Steph being better than Bronn.

You could have legitimately said, okay, Steph is better because I've beaten you two years in a row in the finals. I've done all these things. And so obviously, we all think that is going to happen. And so we just kind of have to like sit here and wait.

But if it does happen, then I'm okay with doing that. I think even right now, it's still like a little like, all right, let's just, let's wait and like, let's see them do it

because I was so sure that Golden State was going to do it. They're up three, one in the finals and then for them to blow it, that's different. Yeah, and here's the thing,

we also have to see how this regular season ends. If the season ended today, She is having a season on par with 2016 Curry. He is also averaging over 30 on 70% true shooting for a guard,

which is astronomically ridiculous while averaging one of the least turnover percentage of any high usage guard. Like, he is having, one of those all-time great seasons that will be in the pantheon of best single seasons for a guard in NBA history. So that'll be another nod to, right, that he got an MVP, came back and had an even better MVP. Well, presumably if he went to the title again, it'll probably be a more

impressive title because last time they got pushed to seven into finals, that's like, you know, just in terms of final outcome, the least impressive title you could have when it took the most amount of games possible. I imagine it won't be quite as much of a hellscape in the finals this year if they make it back. So there's a lot of ways we can imagine that six, seven months from now the conversations are like, oh yeah, this is one of the best of all. time. Yeah, we'll see. Yeah, we, we definitely have to see. As for Luca, listen, man, you got to lock in, y'all, you just, you, you really do have to lock in and beat the Death Star in order to get your, it's, it's, it's hard. I hate you. Yeah. I knew as he said it. I know. Me too. Yeah. I feel like Luke at this point in time has no more, it's so hard, like the, how

bulletproof Shea's cases, at least ascending all time and just constantly leaving Hall of Famer after Hall of Hamer, goat after goat, it's tough because I feel like you only have a certain amount of blips and like gashes left on your resume. Luke already has that with what he did in the finals two years ago, being a cone, the out of shape stuff and all that. Like, that's terrible, you know? And for someone like Shea, he has yet to have anything on his resume to make you raise an eyebrow just yet. If anything, people years ago, don't think people, people were clamoring Shay about and it's like fake conversations too is when O'C

was shamelessly tanking when they were like fully relying on Josh Giddy and Aaron Wiggins at the beginning of their tank and they're like yo boy you got this she's gonna go ahead and question if O'Case he's this type of ass bro and all that like he has he's done nothing to really sell the conversation and that's a big part of the hate for him

I think is like he doesn't really have any no real reason to hate outside of I don't like him he's a free throw merchant he's not fun like imagine all the think of it not even imagine think back to all the convos for all the best players in the world over our years as NBA fans people point to LeBron

say you choked in the finals you can't shoot Curry you can't play defense you don't have finals MVPs there's always something people latch onto and like probably blow their proportion but they find a legitimate criticism

now that Jokic can't play defense Curry Luca everything we're talking about yeah there's not a single thing to point to for Shea outside of I just don't like them and at a certain point in time it happens to every single

goat you know it's just the nature of fucking life something's gonna happen and I wonder what it's gonna be and when it's gonna happen Or if it does happen, because that's kind of the point now is that like, maybe it just doesn't happen. That's impossible.

Every player has their shit. Sure. Maybe he'll lose a finals eventually and he won't shoot amazing. But like, in terms of like big picture blips that you actually point to is hurting a legacy, he might just be the, maybe he has a lower ceiling than the best players of all time do. Like he's never going to be 0.1 shack in terms of sheer individual one season dominance. But maybe he has less downsides than every other legend. And maybe that's going to be his case for being top 15 all time is that he just never hurts you in ways that Luca does.

What's probably going to happen. the or the most realistic path to getting to getting that slander is somebody gets hurt in the playoffs either jadub or check gets hurt in the playoffs and the thunder lose whatever series that they're in and then and then people certainly happen at some point right and then you would go to shay and say you're supposed to be x y and z you can't win a second round series without you know without so-and-so like that's gonna listen i know these conversations great well like that's that's that's going to be the the the the way in to get at Shea if you really, really hate him.

Yeah. That's a low, too. And, uh, yeah, it's so funny. The chat was always like, there's always Luca fans that are going to be like, if he had that Thunder team, they'd four Pete. And then Thunder fans are going to be like, shit, Luca couldn't even win a championship with this team. Neither one of those are true.

I think, I think that they would still win championship because they still be amazing, but they probably wouldn't have the year-by-year consistency to be able to do better than they do with Luchet. Yeah. And the general, like, we're saying all these things about different viewpoints. If Luca is Hardin and Shea is MJ, both of which in terms of play style, not abilities, take away playoffs and pretend you don't even know what happens in the playoffs. You don't know anything about championships, anything about accolades. Look at regular season MJ, regular season Hardin, you'd pick MJ for a style of play reasons, right?

Like a small difference, again, if you didn't have any rings or anything, there'd be a small difference in style of play that you'd prefer MJ. That's kind of the combo to me is that these small differences in how I wanted to play my stars is the only difference to me. Yeah. And at the end of the day, well, with that conversation, the baseline of that conversation, the baseline of that conversation, is just like who will give us less variance who will be more stable yes by nature sGA's game which is just more so black black and white simple as hell get into the paint being the greatest mid-rated shooter of all time having impossible to guard when it's fucking head is down because all the insane angles that he takes versus just tough step back

three tough step back three throwing relying on your teammates and hitting them on wide open corners great and all that but it's just so much so much more variance with that style yeah low variance is the exact way to finalize the convos. He just simply has the least variance of any of his peers. Yeah. Shout out to I of avocado for $15. appreciate you. Shout out to Fergus McKay for tipping $3. He said, last TD3 live before the social media

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