The Deep 3 Podcast - We Picked Our 2025 NBA Award Winners! | TD3 Live

Episode Date: April 9, 2025

Who wins every NBA award? #nba Support the stream: https://streamlabs.com/thedeep3pod Today we react to all the latest NBA news! Check out the TD3 merch: https://the-deep-3-shop.fourthwall.com/ Join the TD3 discord!: https://discord.gg/RUkjpMPp7E Listen on Spotify!: https://open.spotify.com/show/3elbbqVumwqz8wlIdknsLW Listen on Apple Podcasts!: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-deep-3-podcast/id1657940794 Follow us on TikTok!: https://www.tiktok.com/@thedeepthree Follow us on Instagram!: https://www.instagram.com/thedeep3podcast/ Isaac's twitter: https://twitter.com/byisaacg Muhamed's twitter: https://twitter.com/Mojo99_ Donnavan's twitter: https://twitter.com/Dsmoot3D Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Ooh, I believe we are live and I believe we're here today. Talk about a very interesting stream. This is one of the most looked forward to for me streams of the year because it's something that like I said, we do on stream now instead of a full episode. We're going to talk about our NBA awards pick today, you know, have the MVP debate. Man, don't nobody care about that. Don't nobody care about that. People are losing their jobs.

People are out in the streets. They can't be their families anymore. There's an NBA coaching recession. The Cronkey's made the call. The service made the call. all. It's over. Denver is in Chamble. Let's talk about it. Let's talk about that. Let's talk about that.

Because the NBA is upside down. The NBA is upside down, truly. Appreciate everybody that came through here that's here, right and early, ready for the top of the stream. Because you guys know what we're going to talk about. Immediately before we get to the main topic, like Donovan said, we got to talk about the fact that the Denver Nuggets saw what the Memphis Grizzlies did and which they fired Taylor Jenkins three weeks before the NBA playoff started. We all came up here and said, okay, well, I guess.

Yes, it's not crazy, he got fired, but the timing's insane. You've got to play the goddamn Lakers in three weeks and seven-game series. What are you talking about? The Denver Nugget said, hold on, let's get crazier. They fired this guy with like five games left in the season. They fired Mike Malone. It's insane. He's gone, and on top of that, it was compounded with Calvin Booth, him being gone.

And I look at this picture, and all I can think about is a tweet that said he looks like Nicholas Cage put on Mike Brown's body. That's facts. Big fans. Triple homicide. What the fuck? Both of these guys have been fired. The Nuggets are in disarray. From top down, their leadership is obviously completely changing.

They lost faith in this product. They said, sure, we can do it in the summer or we can do this shit right fucking now. And we can rip the band it off before the playoffs even start, set a tone, whatever. I don't know. What are your guys' thoughts? I just, it always, I say always. Last time it happened with the Grizzlies, I was shocked. And I think overall, nobody is surprised that Mike Malone.

is not coaching the Denver Nuggets. Yeah. They are surprised that Mike Malone is not coaching the Denver Nuggets today. Yeah, right? Like, if you are going to get, if you're going to fire somebody, the number one thing they've kind of been saying all year, right,

with whether it be like through Jamal Murray's injuries and him coming back and all the young guys, it's like, hey, man, like, you know, we have Yokic. We'll see what happens. The fact that you are not allowing this team and you are not allowing your organization to see what happens is wild. And like, if you're the Grizzlies, okay, I can, I can get on board with that a little bit more because Jha is not one of the 15 best players to ever play the game. Yeah.

Because Jai is not in the middle of an MVP caliber season. Because Jha, like his presence alone doesn't make you the best offensive in the league and with the best all and off numbers. Like, you have Yokic at the peak of his powers. This man just had 60 the other day. And Russell Westbrook and his, and his decisions messed that up, but you see everything that Yoko is doing on a nightly basis and you don't even let them have a play-in game. That's the crazy part. Yeah.

It's insane. It's just, like you said, when you're the Grizzies doing this, you know, you're far, far from a championship. You don't really believe you have a chance. So you rip it to bend it off because you want to establish something early. I guess I can understand it, right?

Maybe you say part of establishing this new culture will be a playoff run and we start things off from a high note. And if we don't, it's fine because we don't really believe in our heart. hearts that we're making some shit happen this year regardless. When you have Nicole Yocotin's prime every year must be treated like gold. You cannot waste a single season. Not only is it you're playing with your goat's legacy, which like I'm sure they care about a little bit, right? They

want to do right by him and like they understand the gravity of his career and what it means for the organization at large. But also even outside of the implications for him, you only have so many years of contending around this guy. So maybe they feel it's in their best interest to do this now and they gives them a better chance of making a playoff run. I find that kind of hard to believe unless you just believe that the locker room

was so completely far gone that there is no saving it that Mike Malone had to go or otherwise you were guaranteed a first round exit. If you feel that way, I get it. But it just feels crazy, right?

Like it goes against everything we've come to know about the history of the NBA and what works. Never do you run towards instability and it works out well. That's not a tried and true formula. Yeah, I don't get it, Moe.

I don't understand. It's hilarious. When I see this, when I saw this happen, I was like, damn, bro, they got these both of these guys out in a package deal. You think they told them at like the same time that, hey, you and you, you're gone. You think they brought them into a room together, be like, yeah, you guys are out of here. Or was it like one of them was tired first? Probably not, because I think it was reported that these guys fucking hate each other and that there was a lot of bickering between these two. And that kind of led to the downfall organization.

There was a lot of disconnect between the two most important voices in this organization. There's a lot of disconnect in who Mike Malone on his team and who could. Calvin Booth continue to draft, continue to pay. There's, we'll get to some tweets later about some stories about that, but it seems like these two guys fucking hit each other. And I think, you know, we can get to the point here. The story here on why this team is struggling so much and why we got here is because the roster decision making over the last few years since Calvin Booth took over for Tim Connolly

after he went to the Minnesota Timberwolves. It's been pure bullshit. It's been a deterioration of a championship core year by year. They're whittling away at their strengths and what made the roster so cohesive and so talented 2023, they've slowly shipped that away. And to me, that's squarely on Calvin Booth. And it feels like, I think I tweeted that Calvin Booth is the Antichrist and he dragged Mike Malone with him to hell. That's why I feel about this. So he was going to get fired and Mike Malone was a casualty to go along with him. Yeah. I think like after, so after 23, after they

win the title, it was it was pretty clear even going into that series. Like, hey, Bruce Brown's probably not going to be here in the off season. Like he's going to go. He's going to get a bag. and that that's just that is going to be that and so when Bruce Brown walks you're like okay fine that's that's okay we expected that shout out to you you're going to get your back that's cool we're going to be okay we're going to like Christian Braun you know try to step into this role we're going to put all the young guys in position we're going to go from there yeah you see them collapse in game seven against the Tim Wolves that entire series that entire run even that entire year a

big storyline of what they were last year was hey do you young guys aren't really ready. Like the bench isn't what it should be. And luckily for Denver, they had the best starting five, the best five-man unit in the game. And you were able to really, really win off of that. And so it was just a problem that you were going to be able to see. We saw it last year. And you came into this offseason. I think this past off season, that's really where Calvin Booth proved to be a bad decision maker. Like this is this is the, the year where if you really need to be a GM, you needed to prove it this offseason and you did it because KCP walked and you replaced him with Russell Westbrook. Even if you said,

hey, KCP, go get your bag, like, we're not going to pay you. We're not going to go into the second apron. That's cool. You can't replace him with a guy with the archetype of Russell Westbrook because that just doubles down, that doubles down on all of your weaknesses. It brings in some other problems that KCP didn't necessarily bring in, and now you're in the situation where you're probably going to be in the playing, and wouldn't it be crazy if the Nuggets and again, I don't think it's going to happen because I don't believe in the nine and ten seeds in the West, but if the Denver Nuggets missed the playoffs entirely, that'd be ridiculous, because they're in the play in two games, you never know what happens, that type of situation.

That's, that's insane. If they lose, that's what's on the table because they're very capable. they're doing that. No, they're not. If they lose the kings, we need to dismantle the franchise. We need to dismantle everything. Yocas loses his best in the world tag.

If you lose the kings, the Mavericks and the playing tournament for the 10th seed, you need everybody as a suspect. But you can't mention the KCP thing, and that's definitely the biggest offense, right? And I think it's important to frame why it was such a bad move.

Because people often, even we have, we've talked about it from a point of view of being cheap, right? The team didn't want to pay the luxury tax and get into the second apron. Yes, but it was not just that they're cheap because the team has been in the luxury tax for a good amount of years.

I got those people pulled up, which is a good way to frame it. They've paid the luxury tax for the last three seasons. The payroll has been the highest in league for several years. The problem isn't that they were too cheap to pay KCP. The problem is that they were fucking dumb and paid guys like Zeke, Sarich, and others instead. And that's exactly right. This is Calvin Booth. It's not just the organization was cheap and the ownership was like, we can't go in the second apron.

It's you probably can't go in the second apron. And you have to get rid of KCP because you gave $6 million cheap. $7 million there, $6 million here. To players who don't play, who are not in your rotation, players who after the trade deadline, Calvin Booth himself got onto a press conference and said, yeah, we tried to make moves, but it didn't materialize. And specifically, we tried to trade Zik Naji and Dario Sarge,

because we don't play them. He went onto a mic and he said that. That's ridiculous. Who goes out on the mic and says, we tried to trade Zik Naji, but nobody wanted his ass. That's ridiculous. Oh, man. When I see all this turmoil going within the,

Debra Nuggets roster and this organization in general, it's normal, but usually like Tormo is like under the wraps. And for them to just like blow this thing completely the fuck up makes me question everything within this organization, even the owners. Like I can under, I can try my best to understand like the timing of this whole entire thing. But at the end of the day, if it's written within the, if it's already written, your future is already written, then why not just like write it out and leave out with class? What happened with like, decency in today's society. Why aren't surfing the

band made off. Straight up just like that. Bro, the season ends in like three, four days. What do you gain from this whatsoever? You want, I can understand the logic of trying to spark a light into your guys. But at the end of the day, like if the camera was going to blow out, why force it?

Yeah. Well, I guess the answer to that probably comes in what we saw from the last press conference after their bad loss to Portland when Mike Malone called out his team. And he, for lack of it, he's done it so many times because they fucking need it. For lack of, to summarize this, what he basically said is we were not prepared.

Some players were full of shit. And he said, they don't watch film. They weren't prepared for what came. They said, he said, these guys only watch film when we watch as a team. He pretty much explicitly said, these guys don't try hard enough. They don't want it bad enough. And you can theorize on who that may be. Probably the podcaster, probably some of the other guys that aren't the top three stars. Like, I'm sure Aaron Gordon's fine. I'm sure Yonk is fine. Probably Jemal Murray. What if MPJ is out here just grinding tape every day? I shout out of him. You're the main suspect.

People are going to your name as probably your reputation-based thing. So you guess I'm looking inward to do if that's not true. But people are looking at him. People are looking at guys like Zieg Najee, guys like these other guys who have always had the opportunity, but haven't quite earned a role for reasons that, you know, you were paid preemptively because we want to make you part of this rotation. You haven't earned it yet. Maybe this is why. We don't know, though. It's all, that's just me theorizing on who the players may be.

but he outright attacked half his roster and said you guys don't try hard enough sounds like they had a fucking chaotic potion of nonsense brewing in this locker room but this is like Mike Malone to his core he's time and time again throughout the last several years thought his entire coaching like career intention he likes to call guys out in the locker room and whatnot and usually it somewhat works towards his favor now of course like with all the losing that's been happening I just watched an interview with the owner of the of the Denver Nucks Nuggets talking about how, like, usually winning helps cover a lot of shit,

but they've been noticing that, you know, since the fucking all-star break happened, they're like below 500, I believe it, like 11 and 13 and whatnot. And so, like, in my mind, he had that last press conference and also whatever happened in that team meeting must have been the absolute worst. And he must have, like, completely lost the locker room. And if you're going to do, and if, it's already. hard enough being like an NBA head coach when it comes to like all the X's and O's and trying to like lead a whole coaching staff on top of that you have to like build some

what of a relationship with each and every single player and the most important thing that most important skill to have as an as an NBA coaches to be able to like get through your players and have them like respect you and if they're not even respecting you or don't care to listen to you it's wraps I can understand why why they made the decision but the timing again is the slowing off yeah and very very very First of all, it would be extremely funny if they're just out here giving Zygnaji blank tape. I would love that storyline. Two, if you're an NBA head coach and you win a championship, retire, right?

Retire. Because you're going to get fired in two years, right? The way that is going, everybody who's winning a championship, the cycle is you win a title. Next year, you expect to go back to back. You don't win. And then the next year, it's kind of disappointing. and you are you are about to get fired and i think like with with denver it's Denver is one of the first like massive massive casualties of the second apron and of of the new cba in terms of

like high level championship rosters because you had a roster remember when they won in 23 everyone was saying like oh this is going to be the next dynasty like yokech is still young you have you have MPJ, Jamal Murray, Aaron Gordon, all these guys are still super young. You can keep this core together. And you've seen year after year this team not be able to recuperate. And as that happens, you put more responsibility in different hands. You put more on different players' plates. And so part of that is, one, as a staff and as a team, you do have to learn how to develop

players, right? And so some teams are better at that than others. You look at the Grizzlies, that's one of their. strengths. Now, the rest of coaching in terms of X's and O's and keeping, you know, your players locked in on a night-to-night basis, that may not be it. But that's, that is something where you can look at Mike Malone and you can look at the Nuggets as a whole and say, yeah, you guys haven't done the best at that. Yeah. Per DNVR, a local Denver Nuggets reporting site, Calvin Booth hired a shooting coach named Mike Penthbert, Penberthie, and wanted to rebuild the Nuggets

organizationally. Mike Malone initially responded saying, no, that's a coach. I hire coaches. One of the many examples of how these two were not on the same page. So, you know, there's a lot of things brewing about how these two were not, you know, in lockstep, to say the least. Then we have another one here. One of the stories was that Colin Gillespie and Jalen Pickett will be playing scrimmages and Malone would come in and reorganize the teams to stack a deck and mimic things about Pickett's weaknesses in his game in a fury. Pickett was a booth pick who was given a three-year deal before ever playing a game. This, I don't know this is true or not, but basically what he's saying is they would

run excruvages and Mike Mullen would go in and just set Jaylon pick it up to fail and then make fun of him for like not rotating or running funny or something. Like, it just feels like there's so much better reporting coming on. Like it sounds like it was a mess in this locker room and a mess in this organization that, you know, a lot of times we don't know about these things until it happens. It reaches a boiling point and everybody has to go. And if it's true, these guys hate each other and you had this back and forth, I can kind of respect the Denver organization for saying, we're not going to say we're

going to pick Booth. We're not going to pick Malone. Everybody in this bitch is doing a bad job. You're both fired. We're restarting from the top. You're both petty. And now you both got to die because of it. I kind of respect that. I kind of like that. Yeah. Also, if you're Mike Malone, don't worry. You're about to have another job in about four months. Three, three, three, four months. Listen, I'm sure you made some good money. Yeah. Go enjoy it. Go enjoy it. Get on a boat somewhere. Go have it. Be a family man. Yeah, man. But that's the Denver news. Well, I'm sure we'll talk more about it. We'll hear more reporting in the coming weeks. We can move on. But what's just a crazy way. And I guess to cap it off. I just want to show you guys this picture. And just let me know what you guys think. Just marinate on this a little bit. Let's think it a little bit. Just let us think it a little bit.

That's disgusting. Anyways, ew. We can move on to the next topic. Yo Kits and Luca together. Listen. I'm not, I'm not going to lie. We'd have to stop doing the pod. I just, I couldn't be up here with you if the Lakers got yoghits and Luca. We couldn't even stop doing a pod, but we'd have to, like, do something about the NBA, a ball stab bitch, starting a new league. All right, man, we'll read these donations real quick.

Then we'll get on to the NBA Awards, the things you guys are here for. Shout out to Kevin Gullochie for donating $15. He said, Isaac, you sent the last episode during the Jersey TikTok. When do you see me wear green and gray? Look at your hoodie and pants right now. remember that green and gray jersey that shitty one the Celtics had they got you i'm wearing well these pants are actually green as well but nevertheless good one shout to i've avocado for tipping 15 he said don't worry donovan tibs is next listen low key low key and i've been i've been thinking

about this since the since the malone firing where if the nicks go out sad and and so that can that could either be like a first round exit or you get the doors beat off the of you in the second round against the Celtics. Like, if the, if the visuals are so bad that you let go of Tibbs, is Mike Malone. Like, he has to be one of the top two options for the Knicks if they, they fired tips this all season. I get, I don't know. I mean, there's a lot of coaches getting fired these days.

Taylor Jenkins is out there. He's out there. Yeah. Listen, I mentioned the cycle for championship coaches. We've talked about the TIB cycle before where like Tibbs comes in over, overperforms with the young team. then you start to get expectations, and you've already heard just a little bit of noise, right? You had the Tibbs and McKell Bridges stuff where he was like, oh, yeah, like play, you know, play the, play the bench a little bit more, all this stuff.

So it's not like a perfect marriage that's happening right now. And if it did happen, I wouldn't be 100% surprised. Okay. Shout to Horsey Yokech, you're tipping $3.15 and shout out to Joaquin 37 for $1.98. Appreciate all y'all. Oh, yeah, I said that one. Cool. Let's get all these NBA awards, man.

I think, do we start with the most interesting one, or do we start with the least interesting one to work away back? Let's start with the most interesting. Who is the MVP of the NBA? We've talked about it a lot. We've had like three check-ins on our award opinions. We know it's a two-horse race.

We got Nicole Yolkich. We got Shea. We got the best player in the world, backpacking, a disastrous team that has led to its coach and GM being fired at the last second of the regular season. or we have a guard having potentially the best guard scoring season of the modern NBA, one of the most prolific scoring seasons

in NBA history, top 10, top five, whatever number you're going to put on it. And he has the best team in the NBA who has a top five net rating of all time. Actually, I think top two, maybe it fell a little bit. But top five, regardless, by far the most dominant team in the conference, which side of you guys falling on for your final decision for the year? I'm going with Shane. He's my, he's my, it's my MVP. I just think that for a team that, and it sucks, they're not going to get any more,

but a team that had an opportunity to win 70 games this year in the high 60s, one of, you know, again, one of the best teams in the league keeps the offense afloat. And offensively, as a talent collection, is not as great as what you would think it is. He does a lot of carrying. He's averaging 30. He is a two-way player. he is impactful on the defensive side of the ball. I would go with Shea.

No. Okay. I like that answer. You stayed consistent, Donovan, and I'm staying consistent to at the beginning of the season, or before the season started, me and you both voted for Shea, and I think Isaac, you voted for Luca.

And can you hear me? So? Yeah. Okay, cool. For some reason, fucking internet was tweaking not but yeah i'm i'm remaining consistent too i'm i'm only with shea with this one seeing what he's done on a consistent basis and feeling the world start to slowly realize like oh shit like he this dude might be generational this dude might be like one of the all-time great guards doing all-time

great things and that alongside obviously like the team being historic and generational it just feels like a very traditional MVP pick. And at this point in time, with how bad the Denver Nuggets has been, and also how it's still elite OKC has been as well, I'm leaning towards Shea. Yeah. I know the internet, Twitter, YouTube comments, everything has decided to hate Sheld Goulders Alexander. They've convinced themselves that he's a free throw merchant and bad for the game

style play-wise and all this bullshit. It's not rude in reality. I understand that. I understand you guys love the triple double Nicole Yoko, which is averaging. I understand that. I understand we all think he's a better player than Shea overall, which matters to some people. I understand. Also understand I'm a gigantic Nicole Yolkich fan, my favorite player in the NBA besides like LeBron, which doesn't count. With that being said, it's quite easily she to me.

I think it's been wrapped up for weeks. It 63% of the chat right now is saying Yokic and I think you guys have lost your fucking mind. Shea's going to win by a landslide and it's deserved. And I know a lot of fellow Yokish fans have decided it's a crime against humanity that Yokch has been robbed, siding voter fatigue, siding unfair biases against Yokic and all this stuff. Shea is the more viable player this year to me. Not to say Yokic isn't valuable, obviously. He could also win MVP in any given year. He's the best fucking player in the world.

So it's not insane. But when you have like an 18 game lead above somebody, I understand it's not just about your team record, right? Wins aren't everything. When you're the first best player in the league and then the second best player in the league and your team is 18 games better, if you want to dull it down to the what's the deciding factor, that's going to do a lot. for people. We can debate the merits of each

in their offensive carrying on how Shea makes their offense like 12 points better when he's on the court, how he carries offensive load because they surround him with defenders. We can get into all that. We can talk about the advanced thatch, with some of them actually do favor, Shea, when usually Yokish wins all those. But end of the day, if you want to say they're very, very close in terms of individual value, the gap in team success is so much bigger than

any other thing that you account for in this equation that you can simply boil down to that. That's going to make a difference. And the Thunder have been such a juggernaut all season that everyone just thinks that, you know, that they've rolled through and it's been super, super easy, which, one, they have rolled through, but they've, they've done it with Chet Holmgren missing mad time. With Hartonson Son missing time. They've had guys go in and out the lineup. The one consistence for them has been Shea. It's that on every single night, you can turn on the TV and you can look at the box score. And if it's in the second half, like Shea's going to have 30,

five and five like he's just that's his that's his baseline he wakes up and he gets that and so inserting that into that offense and into that team and like as he said being 18 games above the second seat in the western conference that has the this is as as much parity in that conference as we've ever seen right there's teams that could finish three there's team and those same teams can finish eight or nine like it's it's insane how close every every squad is and so for shade to dominate the league that way. It means something. Exactly. Like, we've literally never seen a Western conference this stacked. Like, we're talking about it's coming down to the last day to the side two or three through eight probably is to come down to one's the last games

of the season. And all these teams are pushing 50 wins. Like, it's the most stacked year probably ever, at least in our lifetime as fans. I say the last 20 years. It's the most stacked year at the conference. And they're ahead by this much. And like to have the same net rating as the 96 Bulls while missing Chet for that many games and missing J-dub and missing Hardinstein like he just mentioned Chet. They missed everybody else besides Shea and he kept them afloat.

And like people are having a hard time acknowledging that he's anywhere close to the like level of player of Yokic, which I get Yokch is a better player, right? Shea is a better defender for his position which is hard to calculate the value of that when you're surrounded by so many other elite defenders. And you know, it's not Yolkich's fault.

The team's defense is so bad because they really have their perimeter defenders around him deteriorated so his life is harder and harder he doesn't make him better on that end he doesn't make him better on that end at all. But she's life is also hard too though because they're going after Shea because of all the great defenders. Shea is the one that gets

picked on the most because it's like what are you going to do pick on Caruso? Nope. Right? Pick on Lou Doort like all these guys where Shea just by by the strength of everybody else is the weaker link on that defense. And they're the youngest team. The youngest team of any playoff team at Thunder. And they're the best in the league

by far, one of the best regular season teams of all time, that's a ridiculous achievement. Like, everything measurable places to Shay being just as valuable. I agree. I feel like more so whenever you, whenever these conversations are being had, let me restate this. The number one indicator for me to like knowing and finding out that Shay is starting to, starting to become like an all-time player is just seeing unnecessary hate and that's been granted this season by far. Of course. And, Following that up, like whenever you throw out his names alongside other all-time players like D. Wade or Steve Nash or whatever it is that's like one MVP's, people are throwing up their hands in a hoopla and they're figuring out ways to just like jab at his MVP case and statement saying things like someone in the chat just said take Shay off that thunder team. They are still the number one seed. That's ridiculously stupid. That's so fucking stupid. Like I can't lie. That is insane. I understand picking Yokic. That's cool. It's not crazy.

he also deserving but the heights people are going to discredit she to big up yokech i'm like you do you sound insane like that's oh that's ridiculous do you know how hardest be the one seed without shay but that's ridiculous that's insane the other day i said something on it and i think i said some like yeah like to me when i look at shay in his game he is the modern day version of coby bryant obviously less dunks and all that but to me when it comes out he picks up his game and picks and chooses spots. I think he's the literal version of Kobe Bryant today. And someone acted like I committed like manslaughter in the comments.

Like they were like coming after me. And I'm just like, brother, like he is the most pure bucket getter, hooper, whatever like verbage you want to do, you want to use dude out there is. Yeah. And like we can get into Nidig. Obviously, we believe Yokic is one of the best offensive players of all time. So like if you want to tell me that you think his value to his, team is so much higher than Shea, I think you're being dramatic as fuck. But I do understand why

you think that because we think Shay isn't as good as Yokic and Yokic is caring so much that people, that to them is way more valuable than being a great player on a great team, right? I understand the logic. I get it. I just think you guys need to realize that this award is not for who is the hardest carry job. Like you mentioned a lot, Donovan, that post Russell Westbrook, it's kind of shipped to that because we had Russ in 2017. We had Yolkitch in 2021, win MVP's based on average near triple doubles or triple double in Russell Westwick's case, carrying a mediocre team to heights, they wouldn't reach without him. They would be dog shit without him, right? Those are outliers in MVP history. Most things, that is not the new norm. It's a very like real case.

And that's why Yoko is getting second, right? You can still win like that. But that's not inherently more valuable than carrying a good team to all time level greatness. We can debate the level of which winning matters, the level of which team success matters. It matters. It always has. It always will. The most valuable thing you can do in sports is win games. And if you're the reason your team is winning a whole lot of games, you can easily say that it's just as valuable as carrying a team from 20 wins to 40. The end of the day, the most valuable thing you can do is put your team in position to win a championship.

The Thunder are the championship favorites because of Shea. By and large part, he is the reason that can be this good. Now, there's other guys around him that are the reason they can also give him the tertiary help needed to be able to elevate the offense of this degree, especially defensively. Exactly. But to be in position, right, in the regular season. And so nobody ever wins a title by themselves. Yeah.

But you've seen plenty of times before mid-teens be the three-seat or mid-teams be the four-seat, whatever it may be, because of one player in the regular season. That's where great players are able to really, really elevate their teams. And if both guys, because again, we've already told you guys, just how many injuries the Thunder have gone through. We talked about how great their offense is with Shea on the floor and all this stuff. If you are carrying, and also, like, if Yokic is that much better, then Shea, you can't, you just can't be in the playing, right? That's the thing. And if you are looking at who's carrying, historically, that, like, you can go to all the

best teams. Like, LeBron for years with carrying teams, even, even with. whenever he was in Miami and even, you know, early Cleveland, you're not giving LeBron the award every, every single year because you know, you know that, like, there are, there are other people who won are winning more games in the, in the regular season, and because, like, they have, they have to go and do absolutely everything in the team has to come together, right? It's not, it's not just, like, best player every single year gets the MVP. That's not, that's not what this is. Yeah. Do you know what's hilarious? Right when Isaac mentioned how this MVP, MVP races are like different every year, you threw in Russell Westbrook's name. You said that that was an outlier, 110%. But of course, I could have seen it coming from 10 miles away. Someone in the chat said that for Russell Westbrook, I put average like 30 points in all. And also had a triple double. He won MVP that year. So by that logic, by that logic, you could do the same thing this year, which is, I

I can understand why someone thinks like that. I can't. But looking at the year, I can understand it. You've got to get dumb a little bit. I can hit you in your head a little bit. It's not dumb. They're just being biased. They're just being biased.

They're just being biased as hell. You're taking the exception and looking at it as the rule. And just look who's across from them. If Russell Westbrook was going against somebody who was one of the best scoring seasons of all time and they had a 70 win pace, I guess it'll be 68 or 69 now, top two narrative of all time, Russ also would have lost. all about who you face off. Like last year, people were saying, why didn't Luca win then?

If we're looking at this and this and people were trying to apply and say the same logic applies, it matters on who they're going against. Last year, the, Yokic had the one seed last year. Last year, he was the best team while being the best player. This year Thunder has that. And that's not always best player, best team, right? It's not that cut and dry. But it's a hell of a good place to start.

Then we get into all the ancillary things, like the youngness of the team, the injuries dealt with, the way he carries offensively in the same way Yokch does, albeit to a lesser degree, yada, yada, right? But in the day, the roles have reversed. He's the guy on a better team, and it's by a landslide. It's 17 and a half games right now. Like people see one seed, four seed and think, oh, it's relatively similar, right? We got to divorce ourselves in the idea of seeding being what matters here.

17 and a half games is a gigantic difference. It's absolutely insane. That's crazy. Exactly. That's literally insane to think about. And also another thing about that Russell Westbrook, MVP, too. Like a lot of people just like don't really think about how. insanely strong of a narrative he had that year and how like his best friend or whatever

Kevin Durant left and joined okay left and joined the golden state warriors the warriors are by far the runaway like number one seed similar likings to okay C so no one in okays no one of the Golden State Warriors would ever sniff like an MVP so things are entirely different the whole entire world was rooting for Russell there's a lot there's a lot of emotion in his voters wanted him to win there's a lot of emotion as outlier year of emotion as well for those reasons. Yeah, it was decided. As soon as as KD left, everyone was like, oh, Russ is going crazy this year.

Especially, it was especially decided after you posted that, posted that, now I do what I want. Helped him and a little Uzi, bro. He was dead. After that, I was like, yep, he's the guy. He did some weird moves. But again, Yokic, a lot of years could win an MVP, but like, I promise you, as Yolkich fans,

we don't have to pretend that it's injustice, pretend that it's voter fatigue. somebody has the better case and that's okay like that doesn't mean that doesn't not mean the better player lebron james didn't deserve to win it every year he was still the best player in all those years like i understand it's jokish's it's basically yokechish fans first time at the rodeo of being clearly the best player and not getting it i guess the joll and bj year but that was a little bit different that was a little more i guess i was the same it was kind of the same but also the MVP is never going to come from from a team that just fired its coach and gm going into the playoffs like i don't like

you have to have some type of stability and that's just never going to happen when you look back at what this season was and you look at at the Nuggets regular season you're you're going to say they're a team that underperformed a little bit and they ended up firing their coach and their GM three games before the the playoffs started that's not where the MVP is going to come from I'm trying to be polite about this but every time I make a comment you guys are replying with the most heinous takeaways I've ever heard not trying to be nice about it Someone said, it's 100% voter fatigue then, if you can say he's the best player and not getting it. You fundamentally misunderstand.

You fundamentally misunderstand the purpose of this award and what has been throughout history. We can quibble with what our own individual takeaways of what it should mean, right? That's fine. I'm not to say you can't have your own opinion. But if you think that him winning means it invalidate something else, all we can do to look at what this award means is look across history, what it's meant to voters over time, right? How the consensus opinions have changed. It has never once been the best player in the world. award. Michael Jordan doesn't have 20 of them. LeBron doesn't have 20 of them. Like, it's not,

that's never been how it works. So you might want to work that way and more power to you. You can, that's where your vote would go good for you. But if that's your takeaway, you're just looking to be upset if you think that's like the actual takeaway from this. It's also not voting for T. Like he's, he's second in. Yeah. I know. Like, you know, like, if he was, if it was voter fatigue, like, I could see if Yokic was like third on the ballot or something like that and it's like oh we really don't we really don't like we're not having this conversation but he's second and there's a massive and maybe it's just like a vocal and loud minority but there is a group and a faction of people that think yokech should be the MVP like it's not

like people are tired of it because clearly you guys are not tired of it someone said if shea wins this one that means it's better than all of yokch's other MVP's and that's just like what the fuck are we talking about that there's no correlation there that is not a takeaway based in anything like that's not what i don't even know where to take where to start with that argument i'll understand and uh someone that's fucking hilarious and people were saying the MVP is a relatively flawed award because of everything we're saying and that's fine if you think so i think that's how most awards are for like MVP type things in every sport says that people whose favorite player doesn't get MVP shut up shut up is it flawed or is it honest there's such a loser team

take. No, if Yokic had gotten this one and he had gotten four and five years, everyone would have been like, hey, listen, game is the game. There's just what it is being, you know, being the best player in the world. And you're going to have anything to say about the criteria of the award. Why? Because your favorite player is getting it. You choose to be dense about this topic when your player is not getting the award. I'm sick of it. And I'm tired of it. Shea's going to be the NBA. And that's that. And someone said, the chat said, go ahead. Wait, go ahead, because mine is unserious. SG said, I think they're saying this because this is Yokic's best season.

This is not Yokic's best season. This is his best box score offensive output. This is not his best MVP season by a wide margin. He's had years, but he's the one seed. He's more efficient. He's better defensively because the infrastructure is better, and he's even better effort and has a better defensive season overall. It's his best points, rebounds, assists season.

Not, well, that's you. It's the shooting as well. It's the shooting. But just the gaudy scoring numbers of like, oh, go go get a bucket. Because in terms of assist and rebounds, he's doing relatively the same thing. But two years ago, like the narrative around Yokch was always like, okay, if you're going to stop him, turn him into a score. Like, is Yokic going to be the guy that can go get you 40?

And over the last two, two and a half years, you've seen him turn into that kind of, you know, by necessity, but Yokic just got out and he's getting 30, 40, put in up 60 points. And now that everybody's finally seen it, now they're like, oh, this is his best season when he's controlled games like this, his entire career. He hasn't been a quote-unquote cone on defense

for multiple years. This is just the way that people want him to play. And that's why they're giving him this credit right now. We should have known that the Denver Nugas weren't going to be good this year. The second that we see Yolkes put up all these gaudy numbers because it's a good indication, if you have to do like average a triple

double or damn near that your team is kind of kind of cheeks a little bit because what do you mean you have to give me like 30 a game while also shooting like 40 41 percent from the three point line on six five attempts per game which is insane for a center and then on top of that too you're asked to have a insane large playmaking role or rebounding ball and then on top of that two you have to semi-play defense as well this team's we should have known this team was going to be asked yeah he's 10 games this year with at least 40 points that's not that's not that's not Anyway, we're spending way too much time talking about why Yolkich doesn't deserve it. He is MVP caliber.

That's not the point. The point is Shea also deserves it and his team is miles better and that matters in awards races. The output of your team victory-wise is always a factor. Some years is more or less a factor because the top candidates are closer. And a lot of times like we look at Jason Tatum and his MVP candidate has seen in recent years, right? The Celtics have been the best team. So why hasn't he gotten it?

Because Shea is on the best team and he's at the level. he's on a great team and a great player whereas sometimes it's a great team and a good player which that's bad phrasing because Yot Tatum is obviously great but you know what I mean it's MVP caliber player top level team you don't always get those mixed in this instance you do and that's naturally going to have

a better sell than MVP level player on bad team if they're both pinnacle top three players in the world while Yokish is better it's not like we're talking about Yokish versus Donovan Mitchell we're talking about him versus the second or third best player in the world so no matter how you feel

about the difference in their skill sets, the passing of Yokic, the defense of Shea, however you balance that out, those margins are a lot thinner than the team success. Exactly. And that's one of the, and if I told you, or if I asked you, why isn't Yonis second in the, in the standings, right? Yonis is having his, he's having arguably his best year. He's averaging 30, 11, and 6, playing great defense, a much better defender than Yokic, right?

Real two-way stuff. Why is he not second? and you report to the fact that the buck suck, right? That would be your first point of argument against why Janus is not second in the MVP voting. So on a certain level, you do get it. And like I said, you're choosing to be dense about this topic. And that's the issue. Yeah, it really just comes down to people who just really don't like Shay right now for some reason.

And it's so baffling me because he's such a likable, like what everybody's asked for a player, that the way his reputation has evolved is just so crazy. But in the day, everything people were saying just comes down to shit. Shea is not that liked, I think. Any second people, any opportunity that people have to take a jab or stab at Shea, they're going to take it. I was, I think I was in some, I was on Twitter and I saw some shit happening between, I think it was a player scuff or whatever. And Shea just, like, walked over to the free throw line. He was just like practicing his form.

And that's a thing that so many players do as soon as they're a dead ball. And the second that happens, bro, someone makes like a highly super edited TikTok and making fun of it about it. When he's seen it. I was like, little, Shays hit the line. See? It's funny. But it's like,

come on, that's not so wonderful. Chat ended up with 58% Yokich. I'm sorry to say, 58% of you will not be happy with the results

this year. You can convince yourselves that you're in the vocal minority, but... Get ready to write. She's going to win by a wide margin,

I'm pretty sure for everything that we know how the voters are feeling. But again, shout out Yokch, obviously amazing year. So, again,

it's not the slander Yokch whatsoever. It's really just about the transcendency of the OKC Thunder and what Shays brought them to. Yeah. Well, at least we converted like two more percentages of...

Yeah, it started at 60. Was that like 60? Yeah. Actually, it dipped as low as 54, then they came back. So we lost some voters in the mid-argument. They're really going back and forth. Okay, so we're all in lockstep with MVP. DPOI.

Where do you guys want to go? Because obviously for the first 50 games of the year, this was not a race. There was no conversation. It was, oh, yeah, we're giving it to Victor Woman Yama, no matter what. Which we can talk about that was kind of a, weirdly lazy conversation around it when it's not like the spurs are running away with

top five defense or anything but that was a combo right he goes down blood clot doesn't play i feel like the narrative immediately shifted i guess mobly gets it no matter what jet didn't play enough games i guess we're just mowgli's the new guy we pencil in and then draymond green went on the media tour saying hey guys actually i should get it and the voters looked around and said oh shit they're about the same defensively as the calves they're actually one spot higher right now maybe he should get it and now draymond green is a runaway favorite Sparking a lot of debate. How do you guys feel about that?

And the whole media push of it all. I don't like it. I know. Of course you don't like it. No, but like it feels like nasty work. Yeah, I get me.

Yeah, and like if you look at, if you look at the odds and just how much that they've swung in such a short amount of time, it literally is, Dr. Mont Green went on the media tour and changed everything when,

and so like the fact that that everyone is now, kind of like, oh yeah, like it's probably Draymond's award to lose. That feels really weird because Mobley did have this like this entire season. He did have he did have, you know,

the, I get, he was in the lead, had the baton, whatever you want to say. And then all because Draymond Green is going on podcast and saying that he's the MVP. Now everyone's like, oh yeah, maybe it should be you. And so like I'm, I'm kind of inclined to give Mobley the award. But you see why? Not, not, not, again, not Not purely out of hate.

Yes, it is. No, no, no, not, not, I had, I had Mobley before. I don't think that, I don't think Draymond Green did anything wildly, um, ahead of Evan Mobley for two weeks to shift everything, right? Like, I think if, if you want to pick Draymond, that's fine. I'm just talking about overall. Here's the thing. I'm a Mobley guy.

I, I, I don't disagree. I don't, what Dreymon's done is annoying and it's like, cringy. One, I think people are putting a little too much stock into, you know, like MGM awards betting odds they're also doing this to rile up people betting right that's why it initially shifted

and it's kind of funneled if you want to give it to Mowley because you think what Dremont's doing is annoying and you're like why didn't you have it two weeks ago that's a bad reason because I think why he didn't have it two weeks ago is because nobody fucking talked

about the DPOI in any serious matter this year because of like I said the Wembe of it all so it was just a defaulted answer so while some of it is Dremont just like convincing voters like we got people like on the broadcast and Reggie Miller's like

give him the award it's over like that's a bit much like calm down he does have a real like argument evan mowley like the d p oi typically goes to the best defender on the best defense realistically that's how go bear got it's how smart got it so everybody essentially gets it the calves are ninth in defense and the warriors are eighth like there is an argument on who is more important to their team like dramont has a real argument first 15 games a season they were good he was d p oi level defender last 25 games and they've been good he's d p oi level defender in between for a lot of that time when they sucked, they were still a respectable defense. He missed most of January, so they kind of funneled. But he has a good argument. It's just annoying how

he got here. So I don't know how to parse that. Because like, I also don't want to be like, you convince me, Dremont. But it's not like Mowgli has a runaway case for it. I agree. I agree. Yeah, I agree. It's just, it's just going back to what you said about the Warriors being a actual consistent good, great defense, one of the more elite defenses in the entire NBA has validity to like Draymond's entire argument, I think where people get lost and just like kind of have a drop off in it is like they, it's hard to separate like Draymond what he does defensively compared to like the Warriors as a whole. Obviously the Warriors were not fully there as a team because their offense was completely in the mud and they were relying on all the guys that they shouldn't run on and the buddy heels and Aaron Andrew Wiggins of the world. So it's hard to like think of like a defensive player of the year and not see them as. one of the two, three, worst-case scenario, like four best teams in the entire NBA. And now things have changed. The Warriors are seemingly that.

So I can semi-understand why, like, there's pushback. Well, also, I mean, Dramani's kind of like speaking truth as well. Jose Rodriguez in the chat said, only being good at the beginning at the end is not moving us. My God, they're eighth in the NBA for the season. I'm talking about they were downright sensational first in the NBA for the beginning and end. you don't get to eighth in the overall season by just being good then. And, you know, and I'm just talking about the team success element of it.

Because that's, that's incredibly linked to DPOI voters. Like, it has to be on a top defense because every team has elite defenders. So to decide a DPOI, it's basically which person's defense is carrying them to elite defense heights. It's pretty much what the award is, right? So if you both end up and run the same mark, and we can point to moments in which you completely took over in your team's defense, like completely elevated like especially second half of the year that matters to a lot of people it's not crazy to go draymond and even whenever they were bad in the middle of the season

nobody said draymond green is not defending well she's draymond fucking green he was still defending in one of the highest rates in the league their offense was just heinous and they couldn't win anything with that right so it made the defense worse overall because their offense struggled so mightily but nobody ever said draymond green is not defending well no i think if the warriors were like a top three seed team in the NBA which they i don't know if they still have a chance to but it might be who fuck knows because the west is the bloodbatch but the highest thing is unless the lakers tried to lose next like three games the lakers probably have three locked up if they shook out as like a top four seat in the

NBA or in the western conference and i could totally see this happening but me personally going back to the segment i i'm going to lean towards evan wovey because i see the progression in his game i believe last year he finishes like at like number two in dpao y voting if i'm not mistaken natural i lean towards everyone because it just feels like a good storyline the calves have been that since day one but they haven't they're like politics i don't give a fuck i'm taking the calves we assume the calves have been their ninth in defense which is a good defense but like they haven't been a dominant defense all year they've been a good defense where most contenders are fringe top 10

like it's and you know we're treating it like someone in the chat said mobility's in the better defender for 95% of the year and the drayvon plays better defensively for the last 5% and suddenly he's a d p.l why it's just not sure you just weren't paying attention management with the first 95%. Dremont has had an exceptional year all season. The first check-in of the year when we talked about

the first month when they were good, we came up here and said like, Wiggins and Dremont are the best defensive duo in the NBA right now. Draymond never started playing worse. The team situation just got worse. And if you want to get into that too, they traded Wiggins

and we had concerns about their defensive identity being able to maintain without their main point of attack defender. Didn't matter. Didn't fucking matter at all. They're defending against exceptionally now. And Jimmy Butler helps that.

But Jimmy Butler is not a one-on-one wingstopper. He has a lot less to do with it than Dremont does. Dremont is a defense like he always has been, and they're defending at the highest level. And, again, they're at the same level defensively for the whole season that the Cavs are. And you guys, I don't know, so like you guys are talking about Dremont and Evan. And I, we always get to this. I understand the positional value. Yeah.

But, oh my goodness, I want to give love to Dyson Daniels and a men Thompson soul. I like a men Thompson's case. I'd like, like, I want a men Thompson to be defensive player of the year, right? I want, but I want both him and Dyson Daniels to get some kind of recognition. And because obviously, if you are a big, like you do have a little bit more say in terms of like the final outcomes of plays and carrying a defense and that type of stuff than just being a perimeter defender. But the stuff of men Thompson does on a night to night basis in just wrecking the game, making life hard for the other. team's best player. We just saw it last, a couple of nights ago, completely took Steph Curry out the game. Like, he's been doing that all year long. And him and him and Tarry Easton,

when they, when they were coming in, and when they, like, especially at the beginning of the year, they would destroy games. And so, like, both of them as defenders is amazing. So, yeah, if I, if I had a true, true thing in terms of, like, who I think should win, like, I, you know, position to buy you aside i think i would go with with the men you guys are asking about jaron in the chat i'm sorry to break it to you jaren's not in the conversation whatsoever the the grisly's defense so first all he's he's out of it because he got hurt and missed games and then after that he came back and the good of a misdemeanor the grisly's defense completely fell off so even if that even if he didn't miss games they just have not defended at the same team level and like we said team success is

like a hundred percent required historically to win d p oi so even if you thought jaron jackson is the best defender in the league which i don't think he's like as talented defensively as Mowgli and Draymond the guys are talking about or Men Thompson or Dyson Daniels Actually maybe he's better than Dyson I don't know Regardless he doesn't have the team side of it To really be in the conversation any serious way Yeah it's over and I think defensively too

I don't think he's having just like that special of a year Individually because of certain tasks He's been given on the court so now we're saying I think he's not going to win DPOI You can if we did our full ballots he could be on there Like shout out to him for being going to move the power forward and bend his game around Kalilware and get that going

and not really lose a step defensively. I think they're like 10th or 11th on the year now as a team. So their defense did rebound. You guys know he's not going to win DPOI. If we were doing a full top five ballot, there'd be an argument for him to be fifth. That'd be completely fine.

He could be on there after the main guys were talking about. You know he's not the DPOI. I don't pretend you think that. Like there's years where he was top five in defense as a team and he was anchoring it. I can understand.

This isn't one of those years, I think. I don't think so. I don't agree to. But shout out you respecting your guy. I don't know. Final count, are you guys going, Mobley's Green? I don't know. I kind of want to go Draymond Green,

but I feel like I'm a sound like I just fucking fell for the bait on the media thing. But like, the Warriors team has been strong all year. I kind of think he deserves it. Yeah, I understand that through and through, and I would like to believe that Jermont deserves it too. I would have it to him if he never went on to ESPN and said, like, yeah, I deserve this award. That's where he lost me.

He has nothing to do with what he's doing on the court. a hundred and ten percent about what he did on ESPN yeah and like listen you guys have heard you guys have heard me on these streams for the past year i fucking hate draman green's presence and media i hate everything he says he touches a mic i hate the way he's taking his media career things the antics he's had i am not someone who's going to hear him on tv and be like oh you got me i'm more inclined to hate when he touches a mic so yeah it's still i think yeah i think he probably deserves it i guess i don't really feel strongly about this one you can go either way. I just feel strongly about the people that are

acting like it's crazy. I changed my mind. I talk myself into it. I'm going to men. No, let's go amen. Let's take the easy way out. I like a man. I'm going to men. I'm going to men. The Rockets have a dominant defense. You know, like, the O KC Thunder can't have it because they have too many good defenders so you can't point to one. I think the other rockets too in defense. Let me see you who finished it out. I think they're, I'm going to men. He's by far their best defender. I'm not mad at him, man. He has no media push.

Yeah, but the stuff he does on a night-to-night basis is crazy. be after the season so defensive radio oh the clippers are two hey let's go zoobots the clippers are two in defense who would have fucking thought zubotch has been amazing defensively you guys talk about bam zubotch has a real case let's have a real conversation

they really disrespect to zubosh you're not going to lie like the magic or third they don't have an elite defender like that they do it through a team aspect one through 10 they all defend they're all huge so yeah like the teams that have like celtic same thing they have a million good defenders tim rules are six in the defense Rudy go bear probably has a better case

and he's been given in the media, he probably actually does deserve it. I would put Gobert on my ballot over Bam. Yeah. You know, for that, for that five spot, that's why I would go. I haven't thought about this for a single second, but we're being contrarian. We're going to Visa Zubach. He's the DPOI. Let's get it.

Either Zubach or Matt Tickey should be. Wait, wait, wait, wait. Do you guys realize you are showing Clippers love with that vote, right? I'm not Donovan. I can show Clippers love. I can make fun of them and show them love. I work both ways. That's why I'm going to men.

Okay, there you can. Let's move on to another interesting. one. That was a cop-out answer. It's going to be Dremont or Mowgli. At this rate, the betting odds say Dremond, I think those are like betting odds that they're like putting into the world. And we'll see if voters like are swayed by that. But I think the betting companies did that for like interaction bait more than this is representative of what's actually going to happen. So I wouldn't be shocked that Moby it does actually end up winning it. Okay. Rookie of the year. Are we going Stafon Castle? Are we going Jalen Wells? Are we going Zachary Risesh. Where are we going

with this one. We're going with Stefan Castle. There's not much to talk about. Stefan Castle has had it. He's had it locked up for a long time. Shout out to Rishi for a very, very strong, you know, last month and even even some time before. But Stefan Castle, just from start to finish, I think has had the best rookie campaign. So I will go with him. Yeah, I'm totally fine with giving it to someone like Stefan Castle. Obviously, me as the hawk fan here and also me as initially i don't think i don't think i don't think i'm a zachary rich to say hater or ever portrayed myself as that but obviously no obviously you were disappointed the night of draft day i was like damn but whatever and then i like after 15 minutes later i'm like

okay cool we got the rookie of the air he's not the rookie of the air but i'm happy that people are awakened in terms of like how talented he actually is as a number one overall prospects he may not be the best player here but if two three years four years go by if he is like the best player from this draft no one's going to be absolutely shocked out of their mind because you see what he's able to do you see what the trajectory of the NBA has been headed to over the last two three years he is like he personifies that when it comes to his three and d and length ability and shit like that so um but when it comes to like rookie of the year traditionally what it is who can like stuff hell of stats no one gives a fuck about your winning no one gets a flying fuck about

your efficiency, Stefan Castle is that. Yeah, I hear a little bit about the efficiency. Like, people are saying, why do we mention Alexar? If you want to put Alexar on your ballot, if you want to give him first, I mean, none of these rookies are running away with it, so I can't be mad at you. I love Alexar long term. I think he's going to be amazing. He shows the flashes right now if I think what could be an all-star.

It's flashes. He has like a 48% true shooting, which is insane for a seven-footer. He's generationally inefficient. And Castle hasn't been lighted up either, right? he's also chucking with a lot of usage and really just like running away with it because he's getting a lot of opportunity and you know opportunity for rookie doesn't typically lead to like actually efficient productive play he has like a 51% true shooting to be 3% worse as a big man it's kind of insane like sarah's gonna be a star i think it's damn it's fucking crazy like i'm putting

a lot of stock into him that like saying i don't care about that that's insanely bad for a seven-footer like again i don't care long term but i that could be this race yes you do care yeah like he's pretty he's like the most inefficient over 10 point bring him score in the NBA i think if it was putting up like 17 18 points a game or whatever if the basic bascar numbers was or sexier people would be like all right you know what fucking give it to him bro but they're not even at so that's all i'm like sophon castle's probably going to run away with this yeah and like this one yeah it feels like it just feels like castle got an opportunity you got the attention to go along with it like this one will be rather cut and dry

kind of sucks that Jeremy McCain got hurt when he probably would have made this interesting or maybe he would run away with the cut and dry but honestly this feels like the least I have to say about rookie the year in a long time do you remember do you guys remember would have ran away with it yeah do you guys remember like your initial

picks to start out the year no both of all picks is like EDI EDI oh yeah you know what's crazy post not even post Taylor Jenkins he's actually been getting like a good amount of usage If Taylor Jenkins

If Zach Gini got a full year of no Taylor Jenkins treatment I think we would have been right Like he's the past two weeks I mean look what his stats are his averages Like he should have been in this race But Taylor Jenkins hated his ass And like part of it's deserved

He was he had some struggles offensively But you got to give him the usage To make the offense make up for it And Taylor Jenkins had no interest in doing that Tough Yeah So the ballot The ballot would be

Some combination of what, of Castle, Rishishishay, Sarr. I think that comes in two for sure without a... Jaylon Wells, Jailen Wells. That runs up the five. Okay. That's our first team all defense. I'm an all rookie, I guess.

You got Castle, Rises Shea, Wells, Sarr. I guess you can throw Eadie in there. Modis? Yeah, oh, shout on modest, man. If you would have got the whole year starting... That's what I'm saying. Like, can Mada sneak into first team all rookie or does he have... Yeah, I don't think he's not.

to get first two more rookie i don't think so i think modest could get it over him yeah yeah oh shout out east missy yeah east missy had a very good start to the year i the past month and a half i don't know how much i've watched like two pelicans games the last month and a half whenever they've been desolate so i can't even tell you how good he's been lately but he could be on he'd be second team they're screaming in the chat for for wear love we got a lot of fucking miami heat fans today vying for their guys shout out you guys you guys real heavy not mad at he's you got a ride for your rookie he's obviously not going to be in rookie of the year races

shout out that week though when he went berserk and looked like he was in a run away with it that was a good week I was like holy shit this might be the future motherfucker was looking like Anthony Davis that was a good that was a good ass week I can't lie Coach of the year Kenny Atkinson

There's a lot of guys who would have had good really good opportunities this year to buy for it Who's your two and three I think the two and three is more interesting right now Eidoka is number two quite easily for me. The fact that the 2C by a wide margin this week we're going to kind of talk about the playoff picture.

I have a lot of good things to say about the Rockets and how I think people are underestimating them. I'm Aedoka as a 2C. This roster was not expected to be here. I'm Edoka, guess, a second spot. Low-key, JJ, Reddick might be on my top four or so. Top four? Or maybe third, I don't know.

I mean, obviously, like, the match, Jamal Mosley, the team fell off, and I can go him. Out east, I mean, you can give it to the Celtics coach if you want. You can give it to Mark again for the Thunder if you want. You can give it to Ty Lou if you want. They're the 50 C-Clippers. I guess that's a good one. I think... For number two

for me personally. Go ahead. Damn, you sound horrible. Doc Rivers? Drink that fucking Coke. I'm all out. I'm all out. That's players. Me personally while he's fighting for his goddamn life. Oh, Biggerstaff. Yeah, Bigger Staff. And, yeah, have Bickerstaff because

who the fuck would have thought the Detroit persons who lost like 28 or 33 straight games last year would be a legitimate playoff team this year and not like just any playoff team. A player team that actually has a chance to make it into the second round and

upset a team, bro. Complete for out of them. The complete ascension for them, the new found identity that they have and how we've like utilized every single player on their roster compared to what they've experienced over the last few years with Monty Williams.

This is one of the biggest turnaround that I've seen. like an NBA history and that right there deserves to be a number two not for me personally so I'm going Atkinson, Udoka, Bickerstaff, Redick is my top four okay I'm gonna go I'm gonna go Akinson I'm gonna go Ackinson Bakerstaff Umay Tidum yeah I literally have the same exact list as you Donner I would I'm 100% putting Tyler on that list too because them them dudes over there in L.A. were dead for water.

Yeah. Yeah. And you can put Tyler over wreck. I don't care. That's fine. But listen, man. I guess I'm giving, I don't, do you give a rookie coach tax? Because like, not even if it's interesting. Let's say you don't. To be the three seed, I mean, obviously they have really good fucking players. So it's not like it's some insane feat to take Luke Adonches and LeBron to the three seed. But there was a lot, a lot of turmoil that he navigated so well. And the level of buying he gets is like day one, some of the best in the league for a coach. The way he has LeBron defending, has Luka defending,

has all these guys buying into their role, this frenzy defense that's finding a way to be really affected despite not being super talented, the way he's made use of the specific size he has in different positions, despite not having a big, the way he uses all these, like, he has lineups like four power forward size bodies at once

and it just works weirdly. Rui's having a career year, all these other guys. Like, fucking Gabe Vincent was looking like the worst player in the league under Darvinham. Now he's out here being. pivotal to a playoff run like jjorek is on a lot of good things that in the year where Kenny Atkinson doesn't run away with it maybe he would have got a little bit of buzz yeah he could

he could be five on the on the ballot for for me he'll go he'll go after after tie and email okay executive of the year who wins executive of the year it's it's polinka yeah you got luke yeah if he doesn't win that's kind of crazy i mean the thunder the thunder guy presti got hardinstein and caruso and now they might win the championship or might at least make the finals if things will talk he deserves executive of the decade bro yeah and like the Pistons GM Troy Reaver he can be up there

too for getting all those veterans make them competent damn Tobias Harris and Malik Beasley leads you to executive of the year I guess so they made the fucking difference in it I don't know listen Malik Beasley could he six manna of the year like that's that's a that's a real thing like I think okay six man of the year who's our six man of the year pick

Are you going Malik Beasley? You're going to Peyton Pritch. That's kind of what it comes down to you. I'm going Malik Beasley. Okay. Why do you hate white people? He's a fan of shaking his ass in the mirror to him. How many times have you done the Malik Beesie celebration in the mirror, Donovan?

Be 100% honest. I promise you, I have not, I've not done it. That move has scarred me because he did it to the Knicks in the garden. And I was like, I can never partate. I just can't do it. I ain't go why. I'm projecting. I tried it a couple times, and it is indeed hard.

Okay. No, but I'm going, I'm going with Malik Beasley, just because his shooting is so, like, we talk about what the, what the vets have done and bringing in competent players and all that. That's, that's fine. Like, Tobias Harris is Tobias Harris. Tim Hardaway, Jr. He's Tim Hardaway Jr. Malik Beasley is a shooter, a real-life. And his shooting and his spacing has really, really helped this team and their offense

and has really allowed for Kay Cunningham to blossom. I think what he's brought to this team is more integral to their success than what Peyton Pritchard has done in Boston. So I'm going to go with... This is just bad. This is a good team tax. This is just you got other stars, so Payton Pritcher doesn't matter as much. Sorry.

It happens with MVP. Yeah. Okay. It happens. I guess it's a fine argument. Paying Pritchers also average like 14 points. He's doing like 9 a game, 41%. Yeah, yeah, he's ridiculous.

When it comes to Uder's, like, I don't know how many shooters are better than Malik Buzzi right now. Oh, Ty Jerome. Ty Jerome is definitely in the conversation. Ty Jerome has been probably the best backup point guard in the league this year. You know, it's a very pivotal role. There's in games that one of those guard struggles, doesn't matter.

We get Ty Jerome for 20 minutes to come in and give us a starter level production. So, like, he's also on the ballot for sure. That's, yeah, that has. to be top three. Deont Hunterfellow, the conversation. Yeah, he was in it, but then his role got diminished a little bit. So, yeah, she was in Aaron Wiggins, Scotty Pippin, Jr.

Nah, nah, nah, no, no. I'll go paying Pritcher. I'll go paying him all year. Be person. I'm going to payton. Okay. Same. But I'm not going to pretend to you.

I have strong feelings about this. If you want to go to Malik Began, that is completely fine to me. These are both very capable people. And that's the got who I'm going. What else is the next? What else do we have? Uh, what would be a flat? Is that everything? Uh, did we talk about six men?

We just did. Yeah, that was just it. Yeah, that was just it. Um, well, that's a fun one. Okay. So obviously, the runaway favorite for this so far this season has been Kate Cunningham. Been a lot of debate with people on if they feel like a player of Kay Cunningham's stature and draft equity, you know, place on the team, he's already the franchise. If he should be eligible to win it in people's eyes, and I don't really care. I'd be fine with him winning it. But I'm also very fine. fine with Dyson Daniels winning it. If that's where you guys want to go.

Well, Dyson Daniels went from averaging like four or five points per game to like now 14. Obviously, he's been given a large opportunity to do so. He was like one of the monumental pieces in the Dejante Murray trade. But he legitimately improved so much as a player. The reason why he was, he barely couldn't even touch a court over there in New Orleans is because he was a like, in fact, negative shooter. And he's still not the greatest shooter, but he's seen. Like, he's had a lot of improvements in that aspect.

And also, he's had a lot of improvements in terms of being a tertiary, like, ball handler. And seeing him thrive in that role, while also, like, the defense has gone. It's always been good. But the level that we're seeing right now has been historic. To me, I'm out of crown him as my MIP. Guys. Why aren't we giving this to Austin Reeves? He doesn't be in the conversation.

Why is Austin? Not their conversation. Why is Austin Reeves not the most improved player? Second half of the year, they trade Delo. He gets the full-time usage. of that guard spot with the starters, pure all-star level of production. Post-Lup Trade 2 in times where they miss LeBron, he's put up so many 30-point games or 25-plus point games.

He's averaging the same efficiency, 61% true shooting, which is fucking elites, with higher usage, 20 points per game now, the efficiency didn't drop whatsoever. We know what it's like intangibly. We know that the level of which he's playing, the creation he creates for himself. We understand that it's a three-headed attack now. We're treating him like he's damn near a third star. why is that not a bigger improvement than what we've seen his other guys?

If you want to put Austin Reeves on your ballot if you want to give him the award I wouldn't I wouldn't be I wouldn't be completely opposed to it I actually would endorse that over

over giving Kay Cahenhan the award Absolutely I would I was going to say I kind of want to endorse that over So I kind of don't I don't love the argument when someone's like It's just usage related You know like that's you can win it from that Like, Dyson Daniels could win it for that reason, but I'd like more when players get a lot better.

And Dyson dig it a lot better. So maybe he's not the best example of this, but his argument is mostly he went from no usage, no opportunity. He took the opportunity to do well, right? Which is very fine. It's not a bad argument per se. But I tend to lean towards the ones who got meaningfully better and it wasn't just they went straight usage, right? They got a lot better in their role. And that's, that's Austin Reeves to a T.

And that's Kade to a T. So I guess why that's why I think the argument's fine for Kade. I feel like Austin Reeves had a bigger improvement. It's not ridiculous. It's not ridiculous to say that at all. And I think I don't really care where you end up on this award as long as. Like my big thing is just not giving Cade the award because I really, because I really, I really don't like. He's the biggest Cade Cunningham fan too.

I really don't. I don't like it. I don't like what the award has become. come, and I don't like continuing into this new precedent that we've set. And your man's, Jay J.J. Reddick, he talked about it as well, said the same thing where he was saying, like, he hates that, he thinks that, like, the spirit of the award is lost. And I completely agree with that. So if you want to give it to Austin Reeves, that's cool.

If you want to give it to Dyson Daniels, that's cool. You want to give it, you know, what? I mean, J-Dub has been amazing. He probably wouldn't be, yeah, he wouldn't be most improved. But, like, Evan Moby, he could be in those conversations, too. wait could it be actually I mean I don't know

that kind of feels like no he's a lot better oh yeah yeah you're not giving the K you're not getting it definitely yeah they could they could be four and five

on the ballot okay people are saying Christian Brown that's to me Christian Brown it's like a diet version of the Dyson Daniels one where it's a role player

who got opportunity sorry buddy if I'm gonna go that route I'd rather give it to Dyson he hasn't gone yeah yeah you gotta stop commenting

Giddy yeah get out of here you think Josh Hart deserves some love Donovan that's a decent one mostly minutes played but yeah it's a good one

no I don't I don't I don't I don't think Josh Hart deserves it but that also may be my own personal like

I already thought kind of highly a Josh Hart so I'm not I don't think that he's like improved like that I just think

he's just being Josh Hart yeah I'll go Austin Reeves why not before I was prepared to walk in and say Dyson

Daniels but let's go Austin Reeves I convinced myself as I talk through it boom shout out convincing myself like oh my argument is so good i got to say

oh i'm so tough with me podcast is so crazy is the last one yes um i think so do you guys do you guys have any uh any hot takes for all NBA have you guys thought about you I haven't spent a single second thinking of it I know there's debate right now uh should Steph Curry be first team

yeah I don't think it's ridiculous I think I'd be fine if he's first team I don't yeah I'm putting stuff in first you are i i i oh clutch player the year jaylon brunson if you meets the minimum games requirement he has to play the next three games and he will yeah so yeah he will forgot about that one yeah that's definitely jaylundsen if he plays i think so for all NBA i've been thinking about obviously like the four locks are shay yonis tatum yokech and that that that four spot the other guard spot whatever i'm positionless now i understand but you know what i'm saying um i'm going with with uh with Ant in that spot. I like that. I was listening to the Zach Lowe podcast and he said it was between

Donovan Mitchell, Steph, and Ant for him. And they came to the conclusion that is either step or Donovan Mitchell. And I was like, I hear those things. I want to go out there. Like, because I think and especially like if you want to put D-Mist there because the Cavs have been great, okay, fine. But I think that the argument between Steph and Ant, like, Steph really, really got to turn up after Jimmy got there. That is very true. But before that, the Warriors were under 500. He wasn't playing the best basketball that he's ever played. He's averaging like 23 or 24.

And it was just whatever. It's kind of the same thing in reverse for Ant where he was actually playing pretty, like him personally, he was playing decent. You know, he's playing good at the start. Amazing basketball. Exactly. At the start of the year. Then they start to go on this run. And since the, I looked up this one.

Since the new year, right, 2025, Ants averaging like 35 and 5, his three-point efficiency is crazy. They're on a, the team is on a crazy win pace. Like, he's been, he's been great. So I think the second half of what the second half of the year and what Aunt has done, that means more to me than the resurgence of what Steph has done. So I would put on first team on. To me also, like, I'm slow.

starting to agree with you because who am I to argue against Anthony Edwards in any setting I could almost never do that but I will say when it comes to Steph and his highs I said what I said why are you looking confused I will lean towards Anthony Edwards side wait hold on wait wait wait yeah yeah oh I just and that's the end of the stream y'all we'll see y'all later if you're still here watching the VOD comment mo is a fucking glazer and we'll see y'all night we'll see you on Friday for a good playoff preview episode remember the off-court stuff never mind We'll see y'all later Never mind