The Deep 3 Podcast - We Put 2025 NBA Small Forwards In A Tier List | TD3 Clips

Episode Date: December 3, 2025

Tier listing the starting small forwards of todays NBA! #nba Check out the TD3 merch: https://the-deep-3-shop.fourthwall.com/ Listen on Spotify!: https://open.spotify.com/show/3elbbqVumwqz8wlIdknsLW Listen on Apple Podcasts!: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-deep-3-podcast/id1657940794 Follow us on TikTok!: https://www.tiktok.com/@thedeepthree Follow us on Instagram!: https://www.instagram.com/thedeep3podcast/ Isaac's twitter: https://twitter.com/byisaacg Mo's twitter: https://twitter.com/Mojo99_ Donnavan's twitter: https://twitter.com/Dsmoot3D Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, we are going to put 2025 NBA small forwards into a tier list. This is week three of our position by position tier list for early season reactions. We did shooting guards last week, point guards week before that's. Today we're doing the threes to league. When we get to threes and fours, it's a little complicated because the lines are blurred. So these are guys that I think are spiritually small forwards. Okay. Most of the time they're lined up there, but sometimes there's some wiggle room.

Okay. Let's start with J-dub, Jalen Williams. I think he's probably a tier based off what we saw last year All-MBA defender Can do it all, bro I don't do that I think he's 8-2

I can't see Look at this screen You're not supposed to know he comes up next I think he's a tier All-N-BA defender He played center last year But obviously a great three-level score

40 points in the finals He's a tier I'm going to S-tier I'm going to say Is there a conference for S-tier This might be the best More in the league by the end of the season

There might Yes Maybe. Yes. I didn't even think about it like that. There was an argument in the summer where if you are projecting, you could have said by the end of next year, J.D.O.'s going to be the best. All the other top small forwards are either hurt or they're old.

Or they're old. That's true. I think it's J. Dover's next year. Maybe he's not number one. Maybe there's a debate. But I think he'll be in that conversation for sure. Okay. Yeah. That's fair.

Because he's the top 20 player at the worst, I think. I forget how old the small forwards are, man. Damn. Cooper, you got to say this. It is. So Kevin Durant. I think this year

Kevin Durant's handle has really fallen off he's really can't play me, can't move as well I think J-Dadeau's better than Kevin Durant I get that but they're in the same combo

I'm sure that's why that's why he might he might not be Kevin Durant to Kevin Durant standards

80% of of Kevin Durant is better than 90% of the league he's still STU so same thing the kind of precedent we've said

we're trying to get more stingy with S-tier is there a world if you're redrafing the league today for just this season where you'd

rather have Kevin Durant than J-Dub Yeah, I think there is. So there's some roster instructions you would pick Kevin Durant first? Yes. Yeah, I think there are some.

Okay. I don't know about that one. J-Dap kind of fits everywhere, but if you think it's a conversation, Kevin Durant is still last year. Yeah. Paul George. D-tier.

Just came back. I do kind of buy that doing some projection and like assuming this smart veteran player will age with some grace and accept the new role. I do kind of think he can still be a pretty good role player and be like the C-tier caliber.

I think we need to project a little bit because that's a fuck us over with our last tier list. So I agree with you. Maybe you can put him in the like C tier. Yeah, like he fell off last year offensively. He had a terrible shooting season for his standards. Tyrese maxi took a level up. I think he kind of understands this place today. He's probably going to try less difficult shots

now. Can still defend, still has size, still smart. I kind of think C tier is probably fair. If we're talking about right now, based on what we saw with these, I don't know, three games or whatever, he's like D, damn near F. But I think he'll be better. He'll be able to shoot. You could also say that he's old, not going to, there's no reason to say he'll get better like you want to go d it's not crazy yeah shout it to him got that bag the moment he signed that that contract with philly washed three for ten the last game game before that was seven for 12 first game was two for nine yeah put that in d that that's d tier i think he'll be better he's playing

he's like he's like 35 yeah he's playing like d tier but i i i feel like he might normalize at c just because i don't over react but he also might not he might just be terrible at scoring now he wasn't good last year and then he wasn't good last year and then he wasn't good last year has already missed time because he was hurt I know I think DT is very fair for it is super fair it is super fair I'm just saying there might be a reason to be slightly optimistic because we know he can play off ball so well and like I can just imagine him having this like late career oh okay he's still a good fourth man on a roster I get that I don't think based on the last 12 to 14 months that he deserves the benefit of the doubt right now

yeah you're you're right that is true there's nothing I can say about last year that will make him put him put me put him in see it's all just hope and ideas yep exactly So DTR is fine. We don't got to be too nice. Sure. Brennan Ingram, having a very good year fitting well with the Raptors.

Came in, helped change their lives. Dude, last time he put up like 37 points on 30 shots, right? And it didn't feel like he was hijacking the offense,

all within the flow. You keep doing that, Bradenold's the clip. You keep doing that, you know, a clip needs to be unloaded with that team. They need all the scoring

they can get. They need the ball handling because they're flanked by defenders and like so-so on-ball creators. They need him to do that and he's answering the call. I was just made aware

that his nickname was Notorious B.I.3. Fantastic nickname. I've never heard tough. Notorious B.I.3. Yo, these new nicknames, you got to do another video on that, man. Does he deserve B-tier or a T.C. I think B-Tier. I think he's shown that, honestly, wherever he's at, his skill set of, hey, I'm going to show up. I'm going to be a bucket is really good. And the fact that he plays alongside Scottie Barnes so well and that they do compliment each other, he's scalable. You can move him around on different teams. I think B-tier is very good. Yeah, teams like the Turner Raptors need him. A lot of teams have massive weights in terms of having someone who can score on all three levels is,

I think it's easily been one of the more valuable assets and also archetypes in the league, especially someone like him who doesn't necessarily hog the ball as much. Yeah, B-Ther. J.D. McDaniels. The leap is here? Is it?

I don't know. I think he's beat here. He's B-Tier. Yeah, he's a great defender that can do some stuff with the ball in his hands, has flashes every season, where he puts it together as a score. But overall,

probably should be your third best score at best. Fantastic team defender, B tier is cool. For 20 games a year, though, that's 8 tier. For 20 games a year, that's fucking Kevin Durant. Franz Wagner. 8 tier. Yeah. It's right now.

He obviously still has to get to another level with the shot, with consistency with it. Hey, guess what? He is shooting 35% from the line this year. I need better. I need full consistency. The shot has been broken for two years. I need half a season of that

before I start to think that it's like legit But he is when that shot is on Clearly one of the best small forwards in the league He's a great pastor He's a good defender He's a great score like he is a tier Yeah and we're recording this on Tuesday November 25th recording a few days ahead of time

Because of Thanksgiving Right now he's the main offensive creator right now With Palo out and the offense looks great So I'm more than I feel more than good projecting That if he had a full time on ball role That he'd be producing at a level I guess, easily, like, acceptance of being an eight-year-small-forward.

If he had his own team for real, for-ro, and if the shot stays consistent, I mean, that's Denny. Relax. Relax. I'm saying in terms of, like, production and numbers and stuff like that. That's what that is.

That's somebody who averaged 28. Ah, okay, okay, I see. Yeah, right now he's averaging without Paulo Bank hero, solid 25 with this level of offense. I'm not going to say that's dead. He's still better than Denny. Like, even with this minimized thing,

but I see what you're saying in terms of the scoring output. Yeah. Yeah, he had the ball in his hands as much as Denny. Like, he's averaging 29. Exactly. That's my point. Yeah.

But, like, he's so much better at other stuff that I'm like, I'd be aiming higher than Denny. I'd be having that in that comparison. You think 30? No. He's not. I'd be saying he's better at the other stuff than Denny's. I just throw out the name of somebody who's averaging.

A man, Thompson. Haven't gotten the full, feel like we're still getting just the taste. Yeah, still haven't gotten the full load. Offensively hasn't taken. a huge jump, still amazing defenders, still an amazing athlete, helps your transition offense a ton, helps the rebounding, one of the best defenders on the planet as B tier. Yeah, I don't think he can be a tier just yet.

That's what we're probably expecting of him this year. But nonetheless, can't be mad at it at all. You're still giving your top line defense. Still a great slasher, cutter, rebounder, the whole nine. Red at everything but shooting. So it's a great, bro. B tier. You know what, Asar Thompson?

B tier. They're just as good as each other. A man's a little bit better at offense. Asar might be a little bit better at defense. They are the twins. We went ahead. We found blood clots. We beat blood clots up.

And now we get a Sart Thompson. We stopped them out on the block. Blood Clots are done. Exactly. Now we get Assar Thompson in the proper conversations that he's supposed to be in with as great of a role player as he is. B tier makes sense. Yeah. Michael Porter Jr.

This year putting up a million points for game on a bad net's team. If there was ever, ever a poster board for empty stats, it'll be empty. Well, he's really efficient. So he's good. like he's playing great basketball man you know good and dangwell if he went anywhere else these numbers would not be like this of course not but i don't think empty stats means to sound like i feel like empty stats means like it's like not yeah you don't yeah you don't see large lawy marketing and putting him like 28 29 calling empty stats he's just a good player not

empty stats this is fake stats this is this is not this is not real this is not who he actually is that the volume somebody has a score but we obviously he won a championship scale down so So, like, it's not empty per se. But he's a guy that can scale up when you did, can be scaled down when needed. But obviously, in the scale up, you're not really getting anywhere with him being your money main guys. I think what you're describing, C tier. Is he C tier? Clearly.

Is As Arr better than him? Would you pick? I think of him out. Would you pick any deal for some? It depends on my team construction. I'm picking a sorry pretty easily. It depends on my team construction. But I think it's a conversation.

Sure. If you, if you're desperately need for spacing, sure. But I think things. He's in a vacuum, I think he's not doing that. More valuable. I don't know. We might be. That's a conversation, sure.

Him, Massar, and Jane and Dan, yeah. It's a conversation to have. I think it's a conversation. He's having 24 this year, bro, 8 and 3. Good for him. Somebody's got to do it. There's no Camp Thomas. There's buckets to go around.

He's very efficient. He's having a great year, so not to take it away, but like, not a playmaker at all, average defender. Like, I don't. Yeah, not a playmaker, average defender plus rebounder, or a flame throwover score. That's value. It is.

That's why I see. He's not, I mean, he's the only one there so it looks like it's bad it's not bad there like next thing Cooper flag C tier yes great company to be in I think these are two very good but obviously Cooper flag being young and not

ready to be full-fledged star and Michael Ford Jr. being flawed those are still good players you want your team yeah sure I think I think MPJ should be higher here's the thing by this way Asar Thompson is better at defense and MPJ is at offense

I don't know if that that's easily true Assar Thompson is going to be first team all defense right now The piss of defense at the top of the league He's the best defender there He is one of the best premier defenders in the league Yeah, I guess, but there's more to that conversation Simply than like he's better offense

And he's better defense There's a lot in between stuff where I'm just like MPJ is like, yo, like alongside any star in the league You would be immensely valuable And you can say the same thing about us on the defensive end too Obviously it's a very fair But I think I would give more kudos to Not saying he's better

I'm just saying they're on the same level So you want to put MPJB tier? I will put MFJB tier personally I think he's clearly better than Cooper Flagg That's kind of disrespectful to put him on the same tier No, it's not Cooper Flagg is already a better defender than MPJ And Cooper Flagg, after that first two weeks

When he's playing point guard And that dumb ass offense He's gone back to the past couple weeks He's getting it together And he's probably gonna average a cool 18 points For a game on obviously not as good of efficiency As MPJ but he's a better playmaker Miles better defender

He's a better playmaker and defender Yeah but he's not that right now though In terms of efficiency in scoring Well obviously he's played 15 games in his career So, but I think I think if you Okay, So, okay, so I don't think

Is this, I don't think it's super disrespectful because I do think that when you take, when you take like the defense and the playmaking from Cooper flag and you take the intangibles

of not having a crazy podcast, I would have, I would have them in the same tier. That's not his fault. That's not his fault. Wait, 100% is his fault. Put a muscle on him,

what do you mean? There's ways around that. I'm sure this player is just as crazy as a mouth of breath. That's, insane. I'm not against MPJ and B tier.

I think you should be B tier, bro. Like, he's, in my mind, he's the best score out of everyone. Outside, I guess, I got outside I guess B.I, but it's different levels of score and considering how MPJ can do it

on ball and off ball, specifically off ball, best shooter there. I don't, I don't think that this is like real from, like, I understand it's good,

but it's not like real. I think we put it like this. I think if you ask a lot of contending teams or good teams for a singular season, know who would you rather have on your team to take an MPJ 100% of the time over Cooper Flag currently there's not a single contending team right now who would rather have someone like Cooper flag I disagree that is ridiculous not a single that is ridiculous no that is

ridiculous not a single team I I would okay let's talk about the contending team the Lakers yes give me Cooper Flack and the Lakers would that be a gods into their defense the Nix would the NICS would much rather have Cooper flag the MPJ right now if I can have the athletic defender the next one the NICS would the Lakers in a million Instantly took Cooper flag. I don't know. I think that's a conversation because I think I think they would want to start

MPJ alongside, but ending in, no, for their defense, we need that defense bad. The Lakers are the one team that would not even think about if we could Cooper flag. I don't know, man. I don't care if you do MPJ, B tier. It's fine, but.

B tier for me, but this is a lot of time. Yes, it's a lot of time for MPJ. Like, clearly being a C plus players. Like, you guys are bastards for making me talk about him to this degree, man. I love saying he's B tier, bro. DeMartor Rosen. F tier

That's probably just D I mean he's like a bucket He's not valuable Yeah why not He's kind of like Is he worse than Paul George Is he worse than Paul George I see for a split second

I looked at it And I was like Should they both be enough? Because if we're doing that You're right Someone has to be an F If somebody has to be an F And if we are doing

The redraft of the league Out of all these players He's probably getting drafted The low The last Yeah there's no scenario There's zero scenarios In which I want to build

round to Margarozoan? Yeah, he's put him in F, I guess. God, I feel so mean. Kauai Leonard. How do you even have this conversation? What are there even to talk about? Like, how do you value Kauai Leonard these days? Do we just throw him and B and keep it pushing?

It's more of a hassle than anything. Put him in F. It's a headache. It's the same. Yeah. I think we just don't know and B and we don't talk about it. Yeah. We despair respect when he's on the court.

It is what it is. Put him in C. I think we throw him here and don't talk about it whatsoever. Cam Johnson. right now it's playing like he's C right now is I just playing like you might be D yeah he's not shooting well but he's clearly C we've seen so many years he's there's no world in which

he's B or higher and there's no world in which he's D or lower I think that is the most definition of C very good role player that like obviously he started off really cold in the Denver Nuggets situation but we had enough years to know he's gonna shoot well eventually you would hope and he obviously doesn't I mean better than what he was yeah yeah so right now the MPJ returns are better

than the Kim Johnson returns in this trade, I still feel like it's going to even out pretty well and both teams probably got what they wanted from that trade. I think he's just definition to see. Yeah. Okay. Denny. Ooh, man.

He should be a tier, but for right now, I think I feel super tough. Did he see Top of B? Yeah, he could be Top of B for sure this year. Is there any, I mean, it's kind of, I mean, he's averaging the 26. Like, it's kind of playing the age here right now. He is, but I feel like me personally, I want to see it a little longer.

The defense has fallen off with the offensive workload, which is obviously not great. Kind of comes to territories, low Jalen Johnson syndrome. It's a lot of turnovers. A lot of turnovers. Yeah, let's put that on Jalen Johnson's shoulder. Yeah, it's happening right now. What is Jalen Johnson syndrome being bad at half court? Not trying defensively anymore because you have to deal with so much offense, but I said.

Gotcha, gotcha. I'm really McHale-Burge's Central. It's every wing syndrome that has to ball handle for right now Jaylon Johnson. We're going to Top of B. Okay. I feel like A could be a conversation, but that's fine.

Maybe he should be a... If we didn't spend 10 minutes on MPJ, I might want to discuss a little bit more. Don't care right now. Right now he's performing at A level. Like him and Franz Wagner, for the beginning of this season... Put him in A, why not? He deserves it Yeah, he's stupid. 26 is crazy. If he falls a little. If he falls off, he falls off. Getting to the line like 10 times a game.

There's four more points than Dylan Brooks. It's still crazy. A lot of people can't do that. I should have put Dylan Brooks on here. Jaylon Brown. Jaylon Brown is D-Tier. Clearly eight-tier. Not even a conversation.

Yeah, we can end it. Zachary Risha-Jay. He's not playing well this year. He's not playing well this year at all. The only reason is not F-tier is because I would at least like draft him because he can shoot and he's big. Yeah. So I'd rather have him to DeMar. I think his peak, he'll probably be C-tier.

and it might remain for the rest of his career. They dropped in Harrison Bards. Who was I supposed to take, bro? Who was I supposed to take? Alexar, clinging, he didn't want to be here, modest. Honestly, right now, hey, give me Harrison Bards, man.

Mr. 100%, yeah, I'm taking it. Reed Shepard. They said Reed Shepard is a Patrick Mahomes level prospect and they didn't pick him. Yeah, the Hawks did say that. That's ridiculous.

Did you see the headline? They did. They debuted Reed as a Patrick Mahomes of a prospect, meaning that he's like a transformational will like change the position and like is a dominant in the rough prospect That was an insane read also too

by them but yeah And they didn't pick him Richie's A's been in and out the line up consistently man He has a curfew by 10 p.m. Listen man Our coach kind of hates him too

At that point as well He don't play fourth quarters It's fine bro It's fine That's crazy LeBron James Up in the air Existential

outside of tier list. As of recording this on Tuesday, November 25th, he's played two games. And those two games, he looked good. He looked fine. He didn't look like LeBron James, but he's obviously coming back from seven months and no basketball,

so the expectations are aligned properly. I guess we throw him A and say TBD, he might drop because he's old and maybe he doesn't recover, but we know that, like, last year he would still be S tier. Yeah, I mean, there's no world where LeBron is worse than... If he maintains his current level of play, he's like B tier in my mind.

But he will get better. Yeah, he won't maintain this. this current. It might be bad for his standards, but it won't look like this. And I think so we should put him in A. I agree. Yeah, yeah. The offball defense might be worse than ever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He might be bad for falling off, but it won't look the same. OG and Nobie. Listen, OG was playing really, really well. Oh, he was great before he got hurt. B-tier. Yeah, B-tier. He's like, Jay McDaniels. Like, it's a pretty app comparison for the tier of player. He's better than Jamie. Sure, he's probably better, but that's a tier.

anything else you want i'm going to see what the fuck is cats crying you guys talk about what you want to change he's much better than jaded i just want to put that out there right now should i go ahead and change mpj to b yeah go ahead and do it what anyone yeah go ahead

he just he just tried to put OG and s to your fucking bastards had to fix that real quick rap fucking up our list so do want to put mpj and b's I need any last... No, I actually don't care.

I don't care either. If you really have a passion about it, you can put NBJMB. I think he's a B-tier player. He's clearly the best N-C, and here he might be the worst of B. You are blaming unbelievably hard, like, or you're under-rating how good Cooper Flags is like the past week. No, no, I'm not. This is not a slight to Cooper Flagg at all. It is though.

You are now a Cooper Flaggator, and I hope every Dallas Maverick fan to see this. So do you think he, so is, you're saying MPJ is worse than Cooper flag right now. Well, I put them in the same tier, didn't I? You did, but... Both things can beat you. You can put them in the same tier He's worse though Who's better?

If you're doing a ranking Who's better? You'd rank it in BJ higher He's the best in C tier Put him in B2. Well if you do a ranking Unless a ranking on top 100 players I'm not ranking either of them right now

So like that's not I don't care who's ranked 52 or 55 But if I'm talking about If I'm a good team And I want to win right now There's a good chance For my team construction I'd rather have Cooper flag

Lakers easily rather have Cooper flag He's not shooting well right now The three point shooting for the season He's getting better at the mid-range game And they tacking closeouts He's already a good defender I feel pretty good that over the next three months if we're going to use that small sample size

that Cooper flag will be better If you have the Spurs You take Cooper flag over MPJ No I think you take MPJ I think if you're the Thunder You take MPJ Because of more shooting If you're the Rockets

You take MPJ because of the rebounding You want to double up on all those opportunities Yes naturally for the nuggets You'd rather have MPJ over Cam Johnson Who else? If you're the pistons Fuck yes you'd rather have MPJ Timberwolves

If you're Timberwolves You take Cooper Wolves That might take You take Cooper. That might be a little dicey because they're into a way to ball handling. Warriors, you take MPJ. You could have a conversation about Cooper Flagg. We're just going down the list now, Sons.

You might take Cooper Flagg because you need more creation. But in general, I think for teams that need more just size and shooting and all that, someone was guaranteed you're going to give me a cool, like, 15 a game on a fish and shooting. Hawks. From the Hawks, maybe I'd rather have Cooper Flagg. That's only because we need balls. Hell no. That's only because we need ball handling.

That's it. That's enough of MPGA conversations. I can't believe you spend so much time over correcting on the MPGA slander doing so much. Badding over backwards and pay respects to his good start. MPJ. I can't even say it. Positivity maxing. He's bending over for Nets fans.

Can you can't do it. You want so bad if the Ness fans on his side. You think I care about Nets fans? Hell yeah. I think about, I care about basketball discourse. Is you doing the bending? Ew.