The Deep 3 Podcast - We Put The Greatest NBA Duos Of All Time In A Bracket | Ep. 106

Episode Date: September 13, 2024

Greatest NBA duos of all time bracket! #nba Check out the TD3 merch: https://the-deep-3-shop.fourthwall.com/ Join the TD3 discord!: https://discord.gg/RUkjpMPp7E Listen on Spotify!: https://open.spotify.com/show/3elbbqVumwqz8wlIdknsLW Listen on Apple Podcasts!: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-deep-3-podcast/id1657940794 Follow us on TikTok!: https://www.tiktok.com/@thedeepthree Follow us on Instagram!: https://www.instagram.com/thedeep3podcast/ Isaac's twitter: https://twitter.com/byisaacg Muhamed's twitter: https://twitter.com/Mojo99_ Donnavan's twitter: https://twitter.com/Dsmoot3D 0:00- Intro 2:31- Best & Worst take of the week 15:30- All-time duo bracket 1:11:01- Producer corner 1:24:00- Tiktok time Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I think that we have to open the show by talking about the elephant in the room, the most clear thing that you think about when you click on this video. The first thing pops into mind. It's probably been your mind for days. We've got to get to the bottom of the Shannon Sharp leak. Oh, we're starting with that? Oh, my goodness. He was going crazy. Okay, okay.

Enough, enough, enough, enough. Anyways, welcome back to another episode. As you can see me once again, do not have a Mojo 9-9 next to us. he is out for this week I said last week that he'll be back this week I lied as I tend to do he'll be back next week

so I know a lot of the TikTokers yeah I promise this time he'll be back I know a lot of people in the comments of the shorts and TikToks I didn't see the long form

we're like where's Mo did they replace Mo no he'll be back it's all good just be a little patient with us you know

but as you see by the title as well it's a bracket episode a very fun one as you guys know as well it is the NBA off season and there's not shit to talk about.

So we are running the classics, all-time NBA discourse. Run it up. Run it up. Run it up. Listen, there's probably going to be about, like,

what, three more brackets? Like, we might be entering bracket season. We might have in the bracket season. And that's just how we're going to get through every single off season. And once October rolls around,

then we'll be, you know, back to normal. But, hey, listen, if y'all have some ideas, send them through, because this is stuff out here.

I feel like this is the slowest off season. in a while, too. I feel like this is like especially dead right now. It's always like as soon as football season starts, September rolls around, NBA media just like goes in the hibernation. But I feel like it started like early this year and it's like usually there's one or two things like last year the day and stuff was going on at least. Now it's like what?

Trey Young said if he was 6'8, he'd be the goat. That's about the biggest story of the last week. I say that all the time. I said that if I was 610, I'd be the best power for it of all time. So like, what's new? You know what I'm saying? Like, that's not original. You know the club?

If you're watching YouTube, do us a favor. Drop a like and subscribe. If you're on auto platforms, wait as five stars, leave a review. Check out the merch, got it on. Yeah, man. We're going to make a bracket of the greatest NBA duels of all time. You guys saw the title.

Let's jump straight into the show. The cranium is crazy. Oh, my God. I mean, I don't know what to say. Pray on eaters, rejoice. Before we get into the actual bracket itself, you know, the meat and potatoes of the episode, I'm going to start a new segment that we're going to do every week.

Not every week. Let me start that. Let me start over. Before we get into the bracket, you know, the meat and potatoes of the episode, why we're all here, I want to start a new segment that we're going to do every now and then where I'm going to give you guys the best and worst NBA take

that I saw this week. So some high highs and some low lows when you're on Twitter all the time. I'm going to share both of them with you guys. Please tell me, because I know people just be yapping. sometimes especially now we just we just said that there's nothing going on when people have too much time on their hands the worst takes come out because you just you just think about stuff too much especially people that like us have a show and have to fill the airways there's some stupid shit that comes out there so a lot of these worst takes will be occupied by stuff like that but i'll ask

you this question don't know if you want to start with the good or the bad uh let's start with the bad okay on the topic of terrible takes we're going to start with none other than a show that I love to read via Twitter Gil's Arena has another controversial take you know

they have plenty of them and this time it was from Gilbert Arenas and you know a lot of times when a bad take comes up on the show it's not Gil

saying it it's others that are on the show we're not doing that today this one's by Gil and it's more of an opinion than a take so I put it on here because I think it's wrong

I guess but it's really a perspective so you guys you know what you think he said that when he was playing he loves playing guards that don't look to score or look to pass because if they could have zero points and 20 assists he feels like he locked them the fuck down

that any time an assist is gone by the person he's guarding he doesn't care he doesn't see it that's on the guy who let his man score that to him getting zero points to zero points the assist don't matter he wants that every single day the week and feels like he did a good job defensively how do you feel about this

I mean he's not wrong but he's also not right Like, it's very much in the middle. Lovely answer. Because, so I'll say this. I kind of agree. If I had to, like, lean one way, I actually do think I would lean in his direction. Because if you're like, especially if the guard is like shooting, right?

If this is like a Ron, if this is like a Rondo situation where he's not looking to score and his main idea is to pass and he gets 20 assists, yeah, you didn't do your job. But if we're talking about like Dame and Dame ends up with like zero. points and 20 assists how many shots did he take did he take 15 and didn't make any because you were stopping him like yes like that's you know what I'm saying like that's locking him up that's not what he said though his example was Jason kid oh yeah okay okay so that's wrong jason kid wasn't looking to give me 20 points so if he got 20 assists that's on him for letting his man get back doored behind him like that I don't really give a shit and brendon jennings was like are you insane that's 40 points

that's on you you didn't do your job and Isaiah Thomas 80s, Isaiah Thomas quoted it, and he was like, listen, man, you got to be not selfish. Team basketball is team basketball. That's insane. And yeah, I feel like this is, like I said, it's not a take per se. It's a perspective as a player. So to each their own, I suppose, you can think that if he likes. But I feel like it's pretty indicative of how you view the game that might say some things

about the psyche of a player. 100%. I just like, but also it is true because how many times on the offensive side, like, do we see like Luca or Yokic and they make these crazy passes but then their man doesn't score and so you look up and they could have had 20 but you know they could have had 20 assists but then all of a sudden they only end up with like nine because they're playing with bums and people are missing shots so the assist is also on the other teammates yeah a little bit for sure you know what I'm saying like you do have to stop that it really Jason kid is the worst example for this take but you're trying to car for you

Yeah, but if you're talking about like today's point, like the modern NBA point guard that isn't a traditional point guard that is looking to score that can give you 20, 25 on any given night, you're talking about trade, dame, staff, right, all these guys. Yeah, if you hold them to zero points that most, most of the time, that is going to be a bad night regardless of what, you know, of what else they did. I don't know. He's the one I said 20 assists and it's hyperbolic. It's not meant to be taken entirely literally. but 20 assists is a fuck ton of assists. You cannot get 20 assists just by like

nonchamally moving through the offense. You are attacking your man. You're getting downhill and you're making a pass tune of man because you made your defender come to you. If I was a big man and I heard a guard I'm playing with say some shit like this,

I would be enraged. I feel like, what do you mean? This guy is getting a dunk because I had to come help on your guy. Fucking care, please. I just didn't know how many shot attempts. If you take more than 10 shots and you have zero points,

I locked you up. That's just how it is. Now, if you don't try to score and you have zero, good job. You beat your man. But zero points, just like 20 assists is hyperbolic. Zero points is also very, very hard because clearly somebody has the ball a lot, right? If you have 20 assists, clearly the balls in your hand the whole time. If you to score zero points is like actually crazy to be getting cardio like Tony Snell,

that is like, that is kind of locked down. yeah that's a pretty like if you think about it I almost feel like zero points in 20 assists is more disrespectful and more embarrassing than if it was like seven points and 14 assists you know just like more regular in the middle yes yes like if you get to 20 assists and zero points

you're doing that on fucking purpose you're looking to embarrass me you're looking to prove you can beat me with no points it's like a Larry Byrd shot with just his left hand like you're trying to fuck me up and make everybody know that you don't even need to score like you're just that different that's this is again hyperbolic It's just random numbers you pulled out of nowhere, but that's that's worse, I think. Listen, shout out, girl.

Listen, he does what he does, right? He provides content, so shout out to you, right? Everybody's doing their job out here. I like it. Everybody's feeding into the media ecosystem. Exactly. U.E.I. Oh, let's move on to the best take of the week.

This one is from at the, let me see. I accidentally clicked it out. Ooh. Here we go. From at W from DeBol, DeBall on Twitter. he says that this is quoting a video of Robert Williams 22 defensive highlights which is peak off season content man it's peak September 9th week remember when Robert Williams was nice in 22

is this cropped is this video cropped yes it's a weird dimension it's like square I don't know but three Cohen posted this video this highlight clips I can't respect this video well listen that's on three Cohen that's on the ball Cohen get your fucking video game up please but the ball quoted it and he said I still stand on the fact that he should have won DPOI over Marcus Smart. And I've been saying this since the time it happened. This is an absolute W-take. The best take I've seen on Twitter all week,

Marcus Smart is for everyone remembered as DPOI and good for him. I don't want to disparage him or take away from the level defender. He was his whole career with the Celtics. But if you watch that 22 Celtics team that had the best defense in the league and your takeaway was that Marcus Smart is the reason they had the best defense, I think you were not looking with bold eyes. Robert Williams was insane that year See I can't stand guys like you

You just want guards to win because of participation Because so many bigs win it We got to acknowledge the perimeter guys No we fucking don't Robert Williams was the best reprotector in the league He was mini honest that year He is why they were locked down I think Jason Tatum might have been more impactful defense

With Marcus Smart Like Marcus Smart was nowhere near the top Of why they were in elite defense People forget about guards and it hurts my heart. It really does because, yes, like you need, you need a very, very good defensive being to anchor the, to anchor your defense.

And if you don't have that, it's going to be very hard unless you have like a Herb Jones who's just locking, you know, everybody up, right? But on the other hand, it's like, it's like in the NFL, listen, my, again, we're in September, my brain is like 95% football right now. It's like in the end of it.

Like, you can't think of anybody, else winning MVP outside of a quarterback just because of like how integral to their team's success that they are. But if you watch the games, you're like, now, Christian McCaffrey is really good. Tyree Kill is really, really good. And these guys should be in consideration. And they are better at their job than a lot of, you know, than some mid-quarterbacks are at their job. Yet some of those quarterbacks might be higher on the MVP ranking. It's the same thing when I look at guards and defenders and big man when it comes to defense. We're like, yes, I understand how defense needs to be played.

But the good guard defenders works so, so hard, and they are really, really good at their job. And I would like for them to be in the conversation as well. I don't like the way that we've just pushed the guards over to the end. They can be. That doesn't mean they need to win. And you know what? They can get their recognition via first team all defense.

Like other rewards exist to put them in this conversation you want them in. Create a separate reward. The only thing that I have seen, we need to create a separate award for big man defenders, right? Since if that's the way that we're going to view the game, okay, fine. You guys can go over here and we would judge you as so. And then everybody else who is not defined as a big, you get this other award. There has to be some way that we can.

There doesn't, though. There does. There does. Okay, then I want to see you vote for Trent Williams for MVP then. I want to see you get on a video and say Trent. Give me a boat. Let me see. What do you mean? As great as these players are. I appreciate pinnipole football. Okay. That's what I like. Okay. But like they, we for real for a need to, I don't, I don't like the way the guards have been treated. And so I'm okay. Well, Marcus Smart. It's not disrespectful to acknowledge reality. We're not saying they're not good. They can be on all defense. Marcus Smart stands for all other guards over the past.

20 years who I've been pushed this. And that's why he won. That's why he won exactly. And I'm okay with it. I'm fine. I'm okay. If he is the guard representative, would I have picked somebody else? Yeah. But like, if he's going to be the guy who's going to stand up and his trophy is for 25 years of guard defenders, hey, we can do that. And that is okay. That's fine with Dude, Robert Williams' DPOLI died for Rudy Gober's sins. Marcus Smart just got that narrative push just because they really wanted a guard to win that year because everybody was sick of seeing these bigs that are boring and uninteresting and more of the same win. Like, it was so rooted in that.

And again, he's great. He's on, like, he should have been all defense. I don't want to say Marcus Smart's not good or not the top of what his role is. But for that specific team, it was so clear that Robert Williams was the deciding factor making them go from a really good defense to the best in the league and there's a reason that whenever he left that when he wasn't uh you know himself anymore because of the injuries the defense is never quite in that level again he was clearly the x factor there they also they also went out and they said okay yeah mark is smart is gone let's bring in drew holiday right like they they

continue to bring in these defensive demons and derrick white who's who was playing but still you know sharing that backcrow roll instantly gets thrust up he gets more shy and more love you bring in drew holiday you bring in kristops for his injuries who just like robert williams had his injury stuff but he was fairly healthy right for the for the season like i guess and then you also have two very versatile wins and jaylon brown and that entire team individually player by player is crazy defensively so it it doesn't like shock me that they that they didn't have this massive drop off whenever Marcus Swart wasn't there. But for that one season,

listen, sometimes you just have to give it to a guy and understand why we're doing it. It's the same reason why Joel Embed got the MVP, right? And you hate that. You hated that. I do hate that. But I understand that the game is the game. And sometimes you're just going to be on the opposite side of the game.

And other times you just got to charge it. I hate the game so much. Sometimes you just have to charge it. And so. So in this case, I'm going to tell you to charge it. But we talk about MVP, you're going to tell me to charge it. And then once again, keep living life. Because that's how it rolls.

And that's it. Shout out Marcus. I don't want to charge shit. No, shout out of Marcus Smart. It wasn't supposed to be anti-Margis smart. It's more pro-Robald Williams, honestly. Yeah. It's more him being overlooked.

And the weird ecosystem of that time that the narrative of guards. We could have talked about BAM in 22. There you go. Like, BAM should want to market smart too. Yeah. Like, ah. All right. That's the end of that. We can move on to the main topic of the episode. Let's do this bracket, man. You put together these names, aside from a couple changes I made to the guys you forgot about. Yeah. So we're going to do this bracket of all-time duos. I think we should view this through the lens of if these two teams were playing each other in a playoff series, who would we want on our team? Assume the rest of their team around them is like, you know, good enough, normal average, whatever, competent team around them. Which duo would you rather have in a playoff series head-to-head seven-game series? Oh, see, this is interesting.

It's interesting because that changes everything instead of looking at it through, like, oh, what are their accomplishments? What is their talent, quote unquote? I, okay, I like that. Playoff series is good. Yeah. Yeah, because I feel like when we do these brackets in the past, sometimes it just gets too, like, narrative-y chalk, you know? Yeah, it's too chalk.

We know who we rank higher all the time. We know who we think is better in the league right now, and it gets uninteresting. So I think for this one specifically, with it being duos, we only talk about doing. in a sense of like, you know, okay, nobody said this. People typically think about it as if they're playing two-on-two basketball, which I think is the wrong way to do it. But I think there's a reason their brains go that way because the nature of duos makes you think like which two guys are better than the other two guys.

So I think we keep it head to head, but we think about it in a team context. Okay. Where we started? The top. Who is that? Can you see the top name is cut off for me? That is Shaq and Penny versus, versus Willis Reed and and Frazier. There you go.

So it's a 32 team bracket. you guys know how it works we're going to go match by match until we see who wins this March Madness bracket of best duos. So there you go, Shaq and Penny or Reed and Walt Frazier. I know, listen, I know you're a Knicks fan. No, listen, listen, do it.

Put your hand up. Put your hand up. Double salute. Yeah. Double salute. Shaq and Penny. Go to the next ride. Go to the next ride. Yeah. And also, the seating is randomized. So this is 1v-32. Yes. I think you have to randomize something like this. Otherwise, it's not really fair.

Is there any case for Willis Reed and Walt Frazier? Any props you want to give them? Any reason that it would be them saying a chance? Nah. I don't think so. I think like if you are looking at where and like how they can fit in the team context, obviously Shaq in Orlando is ridiculously athletic. He's a better defender, can move more than Willis.

And then Penny has the size. over Walt, you can really, really give it to Walt if you are saying, like, you have another score on the wing because Walt can also score, but like his defense can also allow him to be more like traditional point guard. But Penny's height and Penny's athleticism, having that much athleticism between your one and your five allows you to do so much. And even in, even in the context with they're like playing in the 90s and it's a very like condescending. against game, you get one shooter out there. And it's, it's really kind of over because you don't know what level you want to prioritize whether if it's Shaq, you know, your three-point shooting

or Penny just, you know, going off to juggling doing crazy stuff too. So I'm going Shaq and Penny. Exactly. Like, if I'm viewing it who I'd rather take and I know everything I know about the modern NBA that these teams didn't have the luxury knowing when they were playing, it's a no-brainer. It's so you could so easily imagine Shaq and Penny with shooters all around them, like the 2009 magic or something like that. Ridiculous. Like even Young Shack wasn't the

just like Wada beef he was when he was a little bit older and he still was too ridiculously athletic. Yeah exactly like and he was faster he still had that

physical advantage despite being lighter on his feet. We don't even we don't got to spend too much time. Shout out the Knicks and a 2V2

can hang. Love y'all. Salute. All right next one. Ooh clash of eras Luca and Carrey Irving versus Akeem and Clyde.

Clyde Drexer that is. Yeah. So I think I'm going to Hakeem and Clyde. I think that for the last year and a half, people have talked so much about Luca and Kyrie being like the most talented, offensive backcourt. And I just think that when you put in talent and offensive and you really skew it towards there, yes, you can get to Luca and Kyrie. But when you start talking about just playing, you know, basketball and some of the

things that we've seen Kyrie do in and out of the playoffs, his consistency, whatever, I think I would like Hakeem on my team. And then Clyde can obviously give you 22 as well on any given night. Yeah, we don't got to, it's Hakeem and Clyde. Honestly, this version of Hakeem is one of the best peaks of all time. Episode 100, we just did. We talked about who has the best big man peak of all time. We agreed with Hakema Lashwan.

We ended up deciding that version of Hakeem that won those back-to-back chips is the best we've ever seen a big play. End of the day, that kind of decides it. gap between Kyrie and Clyde if you think Kyrie is better go for it don't care it's

not that big of a gap you know it's not like Kyrie's lighting it up in a playoff setting is a bit inconsistent this past year

too now the only thing that makes you think about it is so Hakeem is obviously all time

height like I said Luca Luca you can't say that yeah you can't say that because he didn't want

to chip yet but he was also in a finals and happened to get hurt which is unfortunate but I think

we'll look back a decade from now and realize that Lucas Peak is like in these conversations you know yeah I mean people just don't recognize that because he hasn't won which is like a weird bias he has he hasn't he hasn't he's been to a conference finals and he's been to a finals already which listen for a lot of these other duos you can't really say right you can't you can't say that and he played poorly

but again he was injured and people love to be like oh he couldn't hang with this elite defense he was fat out of shape he was well documented injured so like I don't want to hold that against him necessarily. So, Hakeem's better, but how big is the gap? That feels sacrilegious, doesn't it? Doesn't it feel crazy to say that? Like, obviously Hakeem's a lot better, but I don't know. Well, I'm not trying to disrespect Hakeem, and we already decided that it was Hakeem and Clyde.

So we can go Hakeem and Clyde, and we can say that they all out, bail out. I wish Luka and Kairie had a different first-on matchups so they could have a chance of making a run. Hakeem and Clyde are going to make a good run on this list. Yeah. Next up, Kareem and Big O versus Bill Russell and Bob Coosie. Once again, put that hand up. Put it up.

Salute. Salute to you, Bill Russell. Halfway salute to you, Bob Coosie. A mini salute. Y'all like getting ran off the floor. You got a hat tip, Bob Coosie? Good job. Exactly.

Like I go, just like that. So, yeah, I don't think this one is. kind of close I think it's very clearly Big Owe and Kareem and especially like when Kareem first gets into the league and he's in Milwaukee like that's that Loki like this peak Kareem right yeah that's that's a version of a big that's also in the conversation for greatest big big man peaks of all time then you have yeah it's pop number two yeah you have original miss a triple double so I'm going then yeah honestly and if you want to say Bill Russell at his peak, you know, the defensive

guy that was able to hold his own. Will Chamberlain could also hold his own with Kareem. Sure. That's, I'm fine with you viewing them as a wash if you want to go that route. I don't think we have to do a lot of mental gymnastics to say that Oscar Robinson is more desirable to have on your team than Bob Coosie. Yeah. Like, I think I lean more towards

respecting people did in their era. So like, shout out Bob Coosie, you were a fucking wizard for the six years or whatever. I'm not going to pretend that I think he's better basketball than Oscar Robertson. Wizard is funny. no i see some highlight tapes on twitter he was passing bro he was throwing some shit he was loki a crazy passer and i don't be like to laugh for him because he's just bob coozy but that guy was kind of crazy listen i will take your word for that right i believe no listen i the dribbling wasn't

crazy i wouldn't call him a wizard in that regard the layups were hilarious and everything about it was hilarious but those passes were nuts i'll give them that He was he he he? He was he? Okay. You got it. Okay, next one. Jason Tatum and Jaylon Brown versus Kobe and Shaq.

Hey, to kill this rest of the playing. Let's keep it moving. It's so funny. Never in my life have I ever seen a freshly minted championship duo get more disrespecting than these two guys. It's like nobody cares about. any of their accomplishments, they get no credibility. Like Jason Tatum, Windsor, Windsich sits on the bench.

Jalen Brown, Kauai Lennar gets hurt. They said, wow, who's another two-way way that we can add to this team? And then like, Jalen Brown, now let's go get, let's go get Derek White. Like, they get no consideration. And it's, it's funny because it's the Celtics and it's them. But also, it's kind of unprecedented how much hate did they get. No, it is hilarious. And I'm not one of those people.

I've somehow become a Tavenman defender. This is Kobe and Shaq. I don't think we need to explain why we're hating on them right now. Celtics fans love to be like, you guys nonstop hate on us. It never ends. Boo fucking who. It's Kobe and Shaq. For this day, you're going to have to deal with it.

Exactly. Again, I kind of like the other modern person with Luka and Kari. I wish you could have a deeper run. I wish you weren't set up to fail, but you're aware by the randomizer. So life is life. Exactly. Jordan and Pippin versus LeBron and Anthony Davis

Oh, I don't want to get Anthony Davis out of here so fast I hate these matchups It's kind of crazy though Because Bron and AD We're looking at them at their peak Right What version of Anthony Davis are we talking about Are we talking about 2020 with the jump shot

Or are we talking about beefed up Anthony Davis right now Well we got to go with the better version of Bron We've got to go 2020 That's when they were both 2020 playoffs Okay so the version of AD that was in the bubble making every jump shot ever you're never going to see a better version of AD ever

if we're talking one playoff run I don't know if there's 10 playoff runs from a big man better than that like he was the best defender in the world his jump shot did not miss he averaged like 27 next to another 27 point for game score while being an all-time great defender like that might be a top 10 player from a big man again just one single season year so we know that's not Anthony Davis for his entire career

it was a hot month but for that month that might have been a top 10 peak that's crazy listen listen write this down write this down we're going to talk about this at different right that's not a root for tangent let's go through all the peaks so obviously we can go we'll go 2,000 2,000 shack that's one we have 96 I mean what was it 995 hekeem 94 he whatever we'll go we'll go 7000000 33 Karin That's the championship

Milwaukee? Yeah I'm pretty sure What else? What else are we doing? Yokic in 20 Are you doing that? Yeah

Are you doing that? You're taking Yokich Championship year already? We'll throw it on there Yeah, probably right? That's probably the best offensive running

of ever seen from Big Man Okay With how efficient Yeah So 23 We got Tim Duncan O'I O3 now is that where you draw the line

it's around there I mean again it's another thing that feels sacrilegious because you think Tim Duncan top five player of all time Anthony Davis day to day Davis bitch like people just make one of them for all these stupid reasons

like people are so mean to him for the dumbest reasons they act like he's a coward but like dude he's amazing and this was an amazing stretch that again was not sustainable but it happened for that month I think he might have been

just as good as Prime Tip Duncan which I'm laughing saying that out loud they're going to call me a glazer a Lakers fan boy and I understand I'm a bigger Anthony Davis fan than 99% of the population

but I don't think that's crazy him or 1977 Bill Walton like where are we stacking this up right? I'm not going to pretend I know about 1927 Bill Walton like that I know he was great

and I know he was passing but I'm not pretending I was in the lab watching those trails pleasure's game. Okay, so back to this. So 20-20, Brown and AD versus what, 93 Jordan and Pippet? Yeah, we got to go Jordan Pippen, right? Yeah. Sucks. I think Brian Nadee could have made a decent run, but you faced a gauntlet. Sorry, guys. Next up, damn, reading all these crazy ones, Jamal Murray and Nicole Yokic versus Magic Johnson and Kareem.

Jamal, listen, they never stood a chance in this bracket when you have one non-sons. star here they were they were getting clad first round regardless yeah that's tough all right get out of here buddy magic and career showtime moves on exactly and if you'd ask me coming off of that championship I wouldn't have said to beat these guys but I would have had some faith in them making a run but if you're telling me about 24 Jamal Murray PR I can't have him making a run on my list it's not looking good it's not looking good at all all right what do we have the next one Gary Payton and Sean Cameron versus Jason Kidd and Vince Carter

Okay, this is the best one yet This is pretty even Gary Payton and Jason Kidd are both Top 15 point guards of all time Comparable levels of peak I think we both agree Jason Kidd is better But it's not mountains And then Kemp and Vince Carter are both like

Consistent also level talents That aren't quite all-time greats But there's similar levels of players Payton and Kemp compliment each other better though Would you say that? I don't know Just because Jason Kidd elevates Everybody and the fact that you have

And the fact that you have like this all-time passer With arguably the best lob thread of all time And Vince Carter Like that If he's argued with the best lap thread of all time The one in that argument is Sean Kemp Yeah you do have Sean Kim I let me see

I think Sean Kemp is on the short list, along with Anthony Davis, for one of the few people that are a better law threat than Vince Carter. But we're not deciding based on who's a better law off the threat. Yeah. I think I'm going to go, I'm going to go Gary Payton and Sean Kemp. Really, because I was thinking I might lean Jason Kinn and Vince Carter. Because, and as I remember, yeah, Vince wasn't even on the final series. Hmm.

Then why did we put them on this list? Sean Camping Payton there you go you're moving on for that that can be the tiebreaker there has to be a 30 second seat so they're okay

oh this is a good one Tim Duncan and David Robinson or LeBron James and Kyrie Irving See this is fantastic so they both get a chip Yeah and your brain probably goes the one with two Hall of Famers

the two bigs. However, this is, you're starting to lean into old man David Robinson here. Yeah. And it's a playoff setting

where you're building around two guys. It's not who's just the best all-time players is who can thrive in a playoff setting. And 2016, Kyrie,

listen, you can say a lot about Kyrie. I just said with the Mab's one that not the most consistent guy in the world as we saw this last playoff run.

He is very consistent when playing next to LeBron James. That does a lot for Kyrie Irving. So that kind of elevates him in these combos. Okay. So I mean, Braun, so 2016 Braun is best player. Best player here easily. Now we're arguing between Kyrie behind his side.

And is this is where Kyrie gets into a lot of these conversations because you have like talent and you have this run from Kyrie that is like. That's crazy. But then you have a lot of other playoff moments of him that isn't really failing. Yeah. I think I still have to go, Brian and Kyrie, just because Kyrie at 26 or whatever, 25, 26, is probably a better duo and a better teammate than what we're going to get with Duncan leaning into, like, back half of the prime Dave Robinson. And it might not, it just might not be sustainable to build around. If we're talking about building today, it might be much, much harder to build around two centers like that rather than.

Yeah. And just think about it, if you had three league average players around them. So let's say LeBron and Kyrie are playing with Tristan Thompson, Jay Crowder, and Grayson Allen. That's their, oh, no, they need big. Yeah, Tristan Thompson. No, that's not fair to put that up against Duncan Robinson. Evita Zubots, Jay Crowder, and Grayson Allen. That's their trio.

And then Duncan and Robinson have, um, they have, uh, who's the guy, talk about, talk about, tell about, tell about, talk about. You, in your life, because you know what you did there. You said it's not fair to put Tristan Thompson there and then say, yeah, put Zubosh right there like that. I'm going to tell the guy. Well, let's say it's like that, right? So Duncan and Robinson are a mismatch.

but then you got like Dennis Schroeder Malcolm Brogden and Dorian Finney Smith just the other guys this team sucks this team sucks if I'm getting that level of production

if I'm getting that level of production from my other three in the starting lineup I have to go brought in Kyrie yeah this is like the one where I'm going to get like Brain Roddy and get like juvenile mindset with it where I'm going to go to the perimeter guys as great as interior presence of Duncan and Robinson is that defense can be ridiculous in a playoff

setting where we know these guys are the best at attacking bigs and oh you actually I don't know because if that's what they do and Braun's going to do his mismatch again like he was in 2016 having these two elite defensive big man makes it a lot harder you can't attack Tim Duncan like you could so whoever else you know it's still problem it's still it's still you're right it's got the best player of all time like even Listen, I think that Hakeem is fantastic. You put LeBron versus, you know, Hakeem one-on-one in space. What, LeBron gets that six times?

I think LeBron still wins a majority of the time. So I'll go Bron and Curry here. Yeah, okay. And this might just be the benefit of what we know about the modern NBA and how hard is to build around two non-shooting bigs. But that's life. What do we say earlier? Game is the game.

Exactly. Okay, so the next one. Kevin Durant and Russell Westbrook versus Nasty Man in number 12 Let's go with What we're going with Well listen I know who Katie and Russ are

The fact that we can't say the other guy's names Let's me know Just how Under the fuck up Just I'm going kidding I'm not even I'm not going to try and make a joke

We know why they're here You know Kind of have to give respect But also basketball wise I do think that I would rather have Russ and Katie. Russ is obviously more dynamic than John Stockton and Katie is a, listen, he's better than nasty man.

So I'm going to. Yeah, we don't, we don't justify this that much. Yeah. Now, there is always some old heads that get mad whenever I make fun of these guys in the comments. We have a surprising amount of jazz fandom in our comments. And to that, I say keep crying. LeBron James and Dwayne Wade.

or Charles Barkley and Kevin Johnson I mean it's pretty silence fills the room we're doing this another easy one LeBron and Dwayne Wade advanced obviously shout out Kevin Johnson very underrated would kill it in the modern NBA

but you sir are not Dwayne Wade exactly you get the best version of Barkley though in there and that guy that guy is a monster like 1993 Charles Barkley is disgusting but again LeBron and Dwayne Wade at basically like the peak of their athleticism

yeah I'm gonna take them yeah all right the splash bros or Wilts Chamberlain and Jerry West see now this is a hilarious one it is it's older it's older Will do we

I mean you can do the first days when he got there he was still good in the beginning his numbers didn't fall off right away but this is this is that this is Deb Curry it's also Clay Thompson and Jerry West.

It's not exactly a close competition there. We got to go to the Wilton West. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, don't click bandicoe. We don't have to do that, right? We don't have to do anything. Okay, sell me, sell me, sell me on your pitch. I'm listening. I have an open mind.

Okay. Here's what we have done. Up until this point, we have... Can you dress me as sharks? Okay. Sharks, listen, I'm offering... 100% of the Splash Bros. In exchange for getting Will Chamberlain

all the way about it. Up until this point, we have given everybody the benefit of the doubt because of how they would fit in the modern NBA. And the Splash Brothers have literally created the modern NBA because of their shooting. If you take them too

and create a team around them, they're shooting, their spacing, Steph Curry's off-fall movement will be able to create a winning team more than Jerry West and Will Chamberlain, who, as we have discussed in previous episodes, is a run-and-dunk, YMCA, Saturday morning. I'm just getting up the quote from our cardio merchant. So, again, I'm taking Steph Curry, who is, at least on this list, higher all-time than everybody.

And then Clay Thompson, the second-grade of shooter. You can build a lot, and you will automatically have a top-five offense. And if you get one defensive piece, your defense can still be elite. I think it's a slippery slope if we start picking just on who could fit the modern NBA better I forgot that that's a crush that we could lean on too much so I'm not sure we're going to stop that as Steph Curry that that's where we want to take a stand no no but Jerry West is amazing I can't get past Jerry West is so much better than play Thompson and the fits aren't like Jerry West it will fit just fine even in the modern NBA so I'm not going to pretend

it's like a fit thing where the splash bros are so much better together than that outweighs the talent like I don't necessarily think that's the case we need a tiebreaker oh my god you guys can't see him but this motherfucker to kill just came in with a step carry jersey on i wonder who he's going to pick well i guess i'm outvoted by some glazers all right tis life crazy the lakers lose again Let's do. This is the last time I'm going to have to watch the Warriors. You've better than the Lakers all year, so I'll take it.

Congratulations. Give 47 wins to the 45. All right, next one. Isaiah Thomas and Joe Dumas are Tim Duncan and Monagher, Genobley. I'm Mr. IT fan. Let me hear it. Let me hear your own Bice's opinion. I can't.

I think I'm going to go Tim Duncan and Monaghan. I think. I sure hope so. Listen, Tim is clearly the best player here. and Manu in playoff settings and in just regular basketball it's like halfway narrative

where some people have built him up to be like hey if he had his own team he would be you know top five guard of all time exactly like he may not he may not be that but there is an aspect to his game where if he was you know guard you know guard number one he would have put up these crazy numbers

he is a much better player that his numbers may suggest and I think them two playing off of each other is extremely valuable to have Tim Duncan who can still give you 20 and then probably the best defense that you've ever seen in your life and then Monu's creativity and his scoring punch. That feels better than having those two guards in IT and Dumars where you really, really have to have like a solid defense behind them. Unlike Steph where, unlike Steph and Clay where the offense is at this crazy, crazy level, IT and Joe's isn't like that so i'm taking tim in mind me yeah i agree i don't think any much explanation

give me tim duncan pretty easily all right next one kawai leonard and kail lowry versus clyde drexler and porter you put them on here oh you hate clyde you hate porter come on man listen i had a respected 90s legends what do you want for me get they made a finals together i got to put them on this list if you don't get this BBL point guard off of this bracket He does not They don't belong on here They don't belong in here

They don't belong to So for that reason Tell people Tell people what you're alluding to I'm alluding to Kauai Leonard and Kyle Lave being here I do not The one who actually won the chip together

The one who had the best player In the world for a year And a very complimentary point guard You don't think they deserve to be A top 32 duel of all time Yeah they won together in the same way That like Kobe and Kwame scored 82 points in a game

like I think that I think nevertheless they want no Kyle Lowry should not be here however Pete Kauai Leonard is better than everybody on this list so so they so they move on and so Kyle Lari once again gets carried by Kauai Lennon so we can pick them and move on yeah before the record before the record they shouldn't be in here in the first place Canada okay Kobe and Paukasol or Steve Nash and Amari Give me the guys Why are Nash and Amari even on here? They didn't do a damn thing.

Give me Kobe and Pagasol. Give me that one two punch. It'll translate to any era In any era possible, having a big man that can short roll past. They showed other people. You can be kind of successful. They ran.

Okay. Larry Bird and Kevin McHale or Janus and Chris Middleton. Woo. This is kind of interesting. I mean, obviously, we think Larry Bird, like, deserves to be ranked above Janus, but when you're talking about two of the best players ever, like, at their peak, it's going to be a close-ish debate. Kevin McHale is very underrated for his era.

Yes. And he can still work today. He just would be playing center full-time, Mexico, and Spacer. So I'm not going to pretend he's, like, a post-merchant from that era. The man is Aryan Shangoon. Aryan Shangoon. Holy shit. I mean, yeah, we're in the opposite, I'm just talking.

But him versus- Bird translates to every era. So I'm not going to pretend bird is old either. So does Yonis, though, you put this like seven-foot dude out here who's running and jumping the way that he can. He's dunking over everybody. So I do want to give him that. But I think that, I mean, he's a better player.

I think you need the-in-in-this circumstance, as great as Yonis and Chris are, good defender is great for Yonis and his peak. amazing score, one of the most underrated scores ever I've said, and Chris Milton is obviously Chris Middleton. I'm going to leave with the playmaker and Byrd. Chris Middleton.

He is one of the playoff players of all time. He is Chris Middleton. You know exactly what you get from him. It's very good. It's very, it's extremely solid. It's very, very above average. And Larry Bird is not only the best score of his decade, or

top two or three, whatever, also one the best passers and I think that's the difference to me as good as Janice is as a passer he can do that a little bit Layerbird's on a different level and if you're talking having two great players on a team with a bunch of average I want the guy

that can bend the game with his passing. All right. Give us Larry Bird and Kevin McKeown. There you go. They won again, man. Stefan Kevin Durant or Moses and Dr. Jay Stephen Kevin Durant. Please. It's not a conversation.

Shout out of Dr. Jay, shout out Moses. Stefan Kevin Duran might be the best duo of all time. It's them with the Jordan and Kobe duos. Like, it's, they're up there. Yeah, they're on the podium at least. Very rare you get two of the top three players of all time playing together and perfectly confident to your roles.

It's going to be, it's going to be tough to beat them on this list. It really is. They might not lose in this list. I might call my shot now. I might be predicting a Steph and KD. Victory. Oh, from, from the 31 overall seed? Lipson.

Babe Ruth pointing at right field I actually don't know where you pointed I hope it was right field he pointed somewhere out there I don't know yeah one of those fields yeah okay second round

let's keep a pushing Shaq and Penny versus Hakeem and Clyde well seeing that seeing that they were in the exact same era I'm going to Hakeem and Clyde

in a series against each other famously when one was Clyde for the first one I can't remember was he not I can't remember

I can't remember I can't remember you know let's say it's very well documented that Hakeem Hed Shack's number we can yeah let's just reality for this one

I came and Clyde move on I can't remember which one's first either Clyde wasn't there I mean even better because now he has now he has Clyde Karim

and Big O versus Kobe and Shaq I mean this is just this is just like Cream and Big O and then you put them in a time machine move in like 20 years ahead you modernize the game

and then it's Kobe and Shaq yeah I just think both are a little bit better right like this is our young bias showing maybe somebody that's like 64 would be like you don't know about Big O who's better than Kobe oh you have no idea you had no idea how good Oscar Roberts

he was maybe you're right but we gotta get Kobe and Jack we know that what they can bring the level we saw Shaq reach even though Kobe wasn't necessarily like late career Kobe where he's like more well-rounded

that version of Shaq with a top three score in the league next to him it's hard to beat that Jordan and Pippin versus Magic and Kareem Wow this is like a Exactly this might be the matchup of the bracket here

Yeah this looks like a Mount Rushmore of like names Okay so obviously Jordan is the best player here by a healthy margin that's probably the biggest advantage here and this kind of gets back to the LeBron and Kyrie one do you like the idea of the symmetry

of having the point guard and the center that really complement each other or the wing duo that's like a supercharged version of what we saw Tatum and Jaylon Brown win with that brings that versatility brings just you know what a wing brings They bring the most defensive versatility They can attack different matchups

You can't get exposed Because one of your best players The big men that gets attacked in space They're matchup proof Yeah, I don't know Michael Jordan Yeah, it seems very easy On paper

But it Loki is tougher than You think just because obviously It's magic and can read Like for a lot of people These are like Number three and number four all time So You know what

I think if we're talking about 2 v2 and what it really looks like I'm confident if I have Jordan Pippen on my defense I can strap Magic a little bit I kind of I can remove one of their best players I can't do that this might be now

listen callback this might be a Gilbert Arena situation where Magic has zero point 20 assists and he's completely fine and do you feel in that situation that you're actually locking down Magic Johnson well listen maybe maybe locking him magic means make him beat me as a shooter I stand back

I'm like, we're not helping. You better fucking full-back dive. Whatever it is, I feel confident. Whatever game plan, my coach wants to dry up, that Jordan Pippin had the defensive versatility, the length, the athleticism, the hands to disrupt his dribble. They can do as good of a job as anybody in NBA history

as slowing down Magic Johnson. Whereas, again, if they're all surrounded by league average, nobody on the other roster has anything for Jordan Pippin, since your guard player is not a defender at all. And Kareem can only do so much. Listen, but Kareem doing only so much against a league average center he's cooking them so that sure but it's michael jordan i understand it's kareem abdibar like these these are again three of these names are for a lot of people yeah

like three of these names are in the top for all time so it might not be close like how big of the whoever you think is worse i guess if you think like magic is worse than than kareem how big is that gap between magic johnson and scotty pippen yeah It's pretty big. Yeah, I mean, you're right. They do have the two top-end talent. Ah, I don't know, man. It feels like you say, it feels sacrilegious going against Jordan and Pippen,

given all the winning that they did. But, yeah, I think it comes down to if they were actually playing each other. This is who they're playing. They're playing each other. It's not who ranks higher all the time. If they're playing each other, you have zero answers for either of their players on your roster. Am I overthinking it? I'm going bulls.

all right we'll go bulls we'll go let's go Gary Payton and Sean Kemp versus LeBron, James, and Kairy Hey LeBron and Kyrie don't make a run here they might this might

they might now Gary Payton I think is one of the few people in NBA history who is aptly equipped to shut down Kyrie LeBron would smoke Sean Kemp

so we can just we can just exactly so we can just go Bronn and Karee here and I'm cool with that Yeah and Gary Payne can honestly defend both of them a little bit He's gonna be like a really Really impactful weapon defensively for that team But end of the day they're gonna attack Sean Kemp

As great as Sean Kemp was Dominant Rim defender Not known for his defense in space And when you're playing a team man by LeBron and Kyrie You're being picked on a little bit Exactly who's next Okay Kevin Durant and Russell Westbrook

Or LeBron James and Dwayne Wade Now some people may say we already saw this correct but we're talking about 2016 Katie and Russ peak Katie and Russ like maybe I mean come on

Katie's closer to LeBron at that point Russ is awesome I think 2015-2016 Russ is the peak Russ for sure this is Dwayne Wade before his knees fell apart Dwayne Wade is clearly still in a higher chance for your player I think than Russ as great as Russ was okay tell me this thing tell me this seven game series these two what does it go to six I can live with that I can live with that if you there you go okay

and Russ put up a good fight but they lose in six games I can live with that I would go seven but okay I can do that yeah I don't know I mean they were better than they were in 2012 when they were very young I don't know if they're that much better like they're you know like they were already pretty damn good at that point, and we saw how quite easily they were handled. I mean, somebody had to come back and three one to to beat them in 2016, so.

No, they're great. They're great. Listen, it's Dwayne Wade and LeBron James. Like, it's just, it's tough. All right, the Splash Bros. versus Tim Duncan and Mono Genoblee. Now, I think if you let the Splash Bros. Be Will Chamberlain and Jerry West, I think you have to let them beat Duncan and Mono as well.

I'm not letting them do anything. They are, they're beating Tim Duncan in mind. They're earning it? Yeah. Is this one, like, that's your actual answer? No, yeah, for sure. I'm, I'm picking them in seven. Wow.

It's just duos. You know what, yeah, because again, if we're just, realistic scenario, they're playing against each other, and Monu's your best perimeter defender, or, you know, if everybody else is fine, what the hell do you have for Steph Curry? Not a damn thing. Not a damn thing.

And I trust Steph Curry attacking. the biggest mismatch more than I do Tim Duncan as great as Duncan was he's not like a feed in the post and abuse his power forward type of guy no he can do that not to say he's no post game or nothing but you know not quite how he wants to play

yeah and Manu's gonna have he's gonna have to run with one of them right yeah one of the and Clay's a good Monor defender that's not a bad matchup I'm yeah I'm gonna I'm gonna splash with those okay I think that's I think the fact that Clay can defend Monu decently well is

is the answer for me yes all right splash brood you're making a run okay Kobe and palisal versus Kauai and Kyle Lowry this was actually kind of interesting answer me this who's remove all bias I know 2010 Kobe or 2019 Kauai oh that's not the description that I thought you were going to go is Pete Kauai for that one year on the same level as Kobe

or like 2010 Kobe like it's not 2006 it's not 2001 like it's a little bit older so amazing pre-injury do you think kawai touches that level at all no if you okay if he if he did touch the level would you be willing to say it

no no yeah I didn't think so I think I think I don't necessarily think that's the case it's just an interesting question but it's close especially with kawai's defense is better at that point I don't know what to do here I don't know what to do I think I'm playing on Kobe and Powell

I'm gonna go them as well and obviously I don't like Kyle Lowry in this situation but I do think that Kobe and Powell playing off of each other that gives them the edge

over Kawai and Kyle Lowry yeah I agree they're just not that complimentary the Raptors won with these guys based on the excellence with the roster all around and the defensive game plans they can employ

with their ridiculous versatility Kobe and Powell while I'm playing buddy ball Like they won because they were a great duo Obviously it's not that simple But that was like the driving force of that team Bird and McHale Versus Stefan KD I'm sorry McHale

But you're getting taken out back For ride Which said Yeah this is an old yellow beat down I'm going to step here Yeah listen We just said Michael can play in today's league He'd be a center he can hold his own

There is not much worse matchups for him then have him defend picking rolls versus Steph and KD both of them making him step up he was not equipped to play that way in his era it's not his fault that is a nightmare matchup

be tripping in the big ass conversy he couldn't stumble it around he can't go out all right on to the sweet 16 actually no elite eight that we're at

yeah we're the top eight we're getting close to the end here okay starting from the top we got Hakeem Elijah one and Clyde Drexler versus Kobe and Shaq Kobe's Shaq

move on Hey man I know Joachim had Shaq's number when he was a little younger these are not

the old days this is older beefier bigger Shack that's more equipped to handle that load

we know Kobe's better than Cloud Jacks there come on man my bad

we're bad we'll go Kobe his Shaq Kobe and Shaq congratulations welcome to the final four as expected now this is an interesting one given the narrative impacts Jordan and Pippin versus LeBron James and Kyrie Irving listen there's a weak spot here

and it's clearly Kyrie urban um whether you put now I will say though if you put Jordan on Tyree he is getting crossed like two times a game and it will be like a disgusting crossover like he's getting put in the blender but the rest of the time he is kind of locking down kairi so i'm give him back yeah listen pippin might be the most well-equipped to defend lebron in the NBA history's one of them and jordan might be one of the most well-equipped to defend kairi in NBA history all right here we go jordan and pippin doing doing what they do now brawn and wade would be more interesting and maybe we'll get there but like you said kairi's a weak point as great as he is now these two can literally defend each other two on two

this five-on-five game will be a two-on-two essentially with four primitive players going ooh killing basketball and who's Kyrie guarding whoever that point guard is like you throw in there, Dennis Schroeder he's gonna pray he's going to Derek Harper Yeah

Okay next one Ron Harper Whatever Braun and Wade versus the Splash Rose See this is This is the childhood matchup right here This is all

I wish you could have seen this man Why did Oh, why did Dwayne Wade's knees at the fall apart? This could have been 2015. The damn meniscus. Let's imagine that timeline for a second. If Dwayne Wade stayed healthy and maybe they win 2014 or if they still lose, 2015 comes around, they stay together versus 2015 Warriors.

Woo! Would the heatos that gotten rid of them? I don't think so. If they're roughly the same level of 2013, with Dwayne Wade being a little bit older, but not you know like crippled see may okay maybe because and the one thing i don't like to do it but if we're getting to like the nitty gritty and starting to pick like details you start to look at that run and you start to look at the fact that the cabs were up to one like the wars could be had especially with their youth if you put the heat up against that rather than this extremely motivated sentence on this

first team who was like we will die getting this championship and that's it like there's no way that we're not leaving the season with the chip they they could have they could have pushed them they probably i think it would have gone seven and then in that situation what splash bros would have had home court doesn't really matter to brun and wade now i'm going brown and wait if dway weight weight is still healthy they still chris bosh they were down two one with no kevin levin kairie like i know that's a common talking point with brawn fans that they discredit with the war you dick because they were hurt, but they were hurt. And if Dwayne Wade was there still,

at the end of his prime, come on. All right, we'll go brother away. There we go. Kobe and Paul Gasol are Steph and Kevin Durant. I'm sorry, pal. I love you. I'm sorry. I love you a lot, pal.

You're awesome. You're a good dude. I'm sorry. You're a great dude even. You've done a fantastic job post career. You're an awesome guy. I cannot give you my vote of good conscience. I can't do it.

I can't do it. Just do it quickly so I don't see. Do it quickly so I don't see. Put them down. Staff and Kevin Durant advance to the final four. Semi-finals, we're here. This is about how I expected to look, I think. Same.

First matchup of the final four. Who advanced this of the finals out of the West? Kobe and Shaq or Jordan and Pippin. Arguably the top two on this list. The best duels of all time commonly stated. I said that Jordan and Pippin versus Magic and Kareem was the matchup of the bracket. I lied. It's this one. We have Kobe and Shaq.

People are here for this combo. Like this is what you think about and you think about the best duels of all time. Okay, so this version, what version of Jordan Pippin do you want to go with? We'll go with 93. That version of Jordan

is so much better than Kobe. Yeah. So much better than Kobe. Like that, that is a clear distinction. Shack at his peak, let's say 2000, is so much better than Pippin. So this is truly a style matchup. Who do you think wins X's nose-wise if you're building around these two?

And your first style is probably Shaq is an absolute mismatch. That's what I'm going to. One of the, like, listen, it's one of the reasons why would people say, you know, that the Bulls would have won eight straight or whatever, yada, yada, yada. I say, I think Hakeem would have won those chips anyways, like, especially if they had matched up against the Bulls just because throughout their. entire run where you have Jordan Pippin and then, you know, good but not amazing centers, you don't have any answer for the dominant bigs of, you know, yonder of all time.

And whether that be Hakeem or whether that be Shaq, especially 2000 Shaq, there's nothing that Jordan and Pippen can do to slow shack down. Whereas Kobe, even though that he's not as good, he might be able to do a little bit against Jordan. He might be able to do a little bit against Pippin. There's no answer. If those are your two that you have for Shaq, and that's what you use the end. See, the thing is, it's easy to say that, but, you know, if you have a smart coach there, do you think there's anything to the logic we used earlier where Jordan Pippen can double team the fuck out of Kobe and, like, take turns, just mollywoping him defensively and really have some answers for him? And you just make Shaq beat you

alone? Do you think that there's any way that you could slow Kobe down and Shaq can't do it alone get gassed whereas jordan pippen kind of get their game off no i i well okay so you think shack is so dominant at his peak that he can make up for that that if he's that if he's going to that if shack is going up against a league average center i don't think it really matters what coby is is doing keep in mind michael jordan is on the other team as great as shack is there's like one or two players have a better peak than him and michael Jordan is one of those players. I understand that, but

the, the book, first of all, you're talking about coaches. They have the same coach. So, like, facts. Right. So that, I mean,

they bowl, he knows how to get under each of their skins. There, he's taking Kobe out of his game. And I say that relatively, no disrespect, relatively as much as you can. But Jordan Pippin attacking the one good perimeter player on this team.

Like, that's, and that's fine. You guys can, you guys can double team. Kobe, there is no answer. There's no answer for Shaq in this specific matchup to where... Is there an answer for Jordan? I guess that's a question. Do you think Kobe's an answer for Jordan?

In two... I'm not sure I do. In 2002, he's going to make him work. And that's all I can ask for. And for me, I think that's good enough. I think I think that's good. I'm going to go, Kobe and Shaq. We can give it to Kobe and Shaq. I mean, I can't, there's no real... You don't feel good about it. Shack is a mismatch. Of course I don't feel good about it.

It's Jordan Pippen. I feel horrible about it. But I'd feel horrible about it either way. I'm searching. My brain on first instinct says go Jordan Pippen that I think Shaq will tire himself out and I'd like to bet on making him be due by himself and that Kobe's not going to stop Prime Jordan

like it's not happening. but if you think Prime Shaq can just destroy you enough to beat you alone that that's not a viable strategy I mean I guess we gotta go the mismatch

Yeah I'm going to Kobe and Shaq All right man On to the other semi-finals To see who goes against Kobe and Shaq Braun and Wade versus Steph and Kevin Durant This is an awesome one Because we mentioned that

Steph and KD are so rare Because they had two of the top three players In the league on their team at once I almost think has never happened before besides maybe like Magic and Kareem or probably some older some of the older ones when like the league was smaller like I'm sure Kuzi and Bo Russell

are probably top two players, whatever but in terms of like post-1980 I don't know how many times this happened but Prime Braun is the best player here and Dwayne Wade at his peak is not so far below these guys see this is but he is below these guys

he is like I'm literally below them but he was still top what seven player in the league when he's with Braun at worst Maybe higher. I might be discounting him. There's like... Is that it...

What was Dway in the league in 2012? Was he still top like four? I'm not sure. I'm not sure. What I will say is like, if we're talking about Braun in this era, 2013 Braun is one of the five best players, three best players. Probably anybody has ever seen.

and the two best players anybody's ever seen right the gap the gap between him and step

as like the two best players here is it's not close like I know that I know that 2016 step is crazy 2013

Bron is on a different level of impact but keep in mind Stefan KD are you think about them and you think about the most

unfuck-witable guys of all time nobody who's been that team. We commonly call them the best team of all time. Clay Thompson, Dremont Green, Andre Goddawa, Andrew Bogot, none of these guys are walking through those doors. If it's just two-on-two,

bronze is the best player here. He can match up well with KD. Let's say they're damn near even. If you want to give 2017 KD, that kind of gas, and they can go defend each other, scoring each other, whatever. Brown's obviously better, but if you want to call that close to a wash,

go for it. Dwayne Wade is not Steph Curry, but he's not the worst defensive matchup at his peak. Dwayne Wade had defense. He's going to attack Steph Curry down low, make him work. You have two guards who can pick on him. And, you know, that's commonly overblown with how LeBron would attack him in ISO. He did that because there was no other defenders around them.

So he had to do that because you weren't going to attack Clay Thompson. You weren't going to attack Draymond. You weren't going to attack Igadala. But that's two guys that can tire him out on the defensive end and really make him work. I feel like they might match up better, Bronner Wade. I think you sold me. I think we're going Bronan Wade. Oh, let's go.

That one's a hard one If the comments hate us for that I won't be mad at you Steph and Katie deserved me in the final two This is peak Like yeah I was in middle school In high school And Brought and Wade were together

Like this is We were there for both of them This is our area for both of them We were And you like Steph Curry more than these guys So I think you have more bias towards Steph Than you do Bronner Wade Dude like

Doing Wade is up down My favorite players though Oh I know you love a good pump fake I mean not pretend you're not a big Wade guy Oh listen you see my game. You know my movies. You know this how I'll play. Exactly.

Well, okay, man, we're in the finals. We're here. The top two duos of all time via our bracket, our March Madness in September bracket. We have Shaq and Kobe versus LeBron and Dwayne Wade. Is there any world where Kobe and Shaq don't

win this? I mean, listen, the reasons you gave for LeBron and Pippen to, for Jordan and Pippen to lose to Shaq and Kobe, still apply here. Now, Jordan and LeBron Wakama Wash, the two best players of all time at their peak. You said that Kobe can make him work.

Do you believe Kobe would make Prime Bronn work? Because, you know, it's a little bit different of a physicality matchup? I do. But you still think that applies? I don't think that there is a wing in NBA history that Kobe would not make work. Okay, fair.

So I think there's that. Now, but Dwayne Wade is more of an ball threat to attack the other guys in Pippenwell. So if you're putting Kobe on Braun, he's not going to stop him But he'll slow him down a little bit Now you have nobody to defend Wade And Wade attacking a league average guard

Is probably more scary than Pippin attacking a league average guard Our wing But he's gonna jump straight into Shaq though You're right, he's fullback diving And while Shaq isn't a great defender He still takes him space Verticality yeah And Duane Wade's game

You're not gonna beat them With Duane Wade's taking mid-range jumpers because he can't get to the room. Well, actually, I mean, that's what Wade does. He is like a mid-range shooter, pump-fake, and do all that. Like, I do think that there's a world where, of course. He's also a downhill demon.

Does flourish. He can get his floater off. He can get the floater off. Oh, Shaq's going to allow a floater. Shaq's going to let a floater be hit. Definitely. Okay, are we doing method gymnastics. Is it Shaq and Kobe?

I think we are. I think we are. We need to put time. We need to put on. It's Kobe himself. Yeah, I mean, listen, if you can't, if they can beat Jordan Pippen, they can beat Braun and Wade. Like, I don't even know if I feel confident that they should have beat Jordan Pippen,

but we're here, so we got to keep it going. The same logic applies. If it comes down to Dwayne Wade and Shaq attacking the mismatch, you're going with Shaq. 100%. So, all right, out of, you know, a surprise to absolutely nobody, Kobe and Shaq are the best duo of all time. Who to thunk it? honestly we change us up a little bit

and instead of doing resume and who's the best all time whatever we did one on one like them actually playing each other I think that might have helped Kobe and Shaq even more because they're even harder to guard than they are accomplished the idea of Kobe and Shaq is probably the greatest idea in NBA history yeah it's the most complimentary duo you can imagine

yeah and with that being said this is the end of our bracket but it is far from the end of our episode it is now time for Producer Corner What do you have for us today on this fine producer corner evening? What's up, y'all? Listen, I obviously, elephant in the room, Mo is not here.

He's not. So I was, you know, I've kind of been missing him. And the thing that Mo is known for in our group chats is having terrible opinions on protein snacks. That is true. I think anytime I need a recommendation, I ask him, what to get and I just go the complete opposite direction that meant only anything that man is a vacuum cleaner he'd be in carbure yeah just disgusting palate with that being said it kind of inspired me to to make a protein snacks tier list so okay we're getting a niche today okay exactly the real fitness

tic-tok exactly snack tier list okay these parts are going to smell terrible and then and then I will say for most of this tier list I want you to to rank the product as is. So it's not just like protein bars or whatever. The one on screen? Yeah, like the actual one on screen. So I guess with that said, we can start

off with Quest Protein chips. So I don't know I don't know if the fans know this, but we'd be in our protein snack bag. We're very big protein snack eaters. We are. This is an area of expertise for us, three. All right, let's start. What's first? The Quest protein chips. Chili line. I think these are so average. I think

these taste like chalk and they're not great. but they're not horrible there's a lot worse on this list they're edible but they like you want them to be really good but they never are the idea of a protein chip sounds really sick yeah yeah it's awesome because because and especially like the way that like it looks and it's presented it doesn't it doesn't feel like you're eating some protein thing when you have your hand in a bag of chips but then you get that after and then we're like yeah oh oh dang and there's also there's a much better chip alternative on this list. So this can go and see. Yeah. I will see. I will say I actually do like these the best of all protein chips, but I don't think they're that good overall. Okay, we'll put this

and see. Let's move on to the wild chips up there that I see. That's a tier, at least, A or S. I know, I know this is your bag 100%. You put us on to these in the group chat. Y'all, I had these in my pantry right now. I have the spicy queso ones. I found at Costco, game changer. They are so fucking good if y'all don't know this brand wild makes chicken chips it's like a blend up of like egg white chicken and whatever else like blend it up and turn to a chip and it sounds crazy that sounds disgusting you think about blended up chicken and a chip but it's enough filler in there it is delicious so much better than a question you put me on living in 2024 man you put me on to this snack like three years ago called chicken biscuit and at first i laughed you out of the room because

It was the craziest thing that I had ever seen and I tasted it and I couldn't put it down. So when it comes to chicken chips, I'm not going to disrespect. We're going to put that in there. There we go. Now, listen, chicken biscuits, now I'm a little older, I realize, are just simply crackers with onion powder.

That's all it is. Man, those things are good, though. Lion powder's delicious. That was good. But a wild chicken chips, get you some Himalayan pink salt flavor. They're delicious. Done, done. Listen, ISO, this is your bag right here.

is your midnight snack. What do we do? A handful of lunch meat. Y'all don't understand how, listen, y'all don't get it. A handful of turkey, right? And especially if you get it from like, like a members mark thing, you get like the other roasting one. It's like 50, it's like 50 calories or 60 grams, 10, sometimes even 11 grams of protein. It low key is more feeling than what you think. And you could just get a hand, the macros on it is fantastic. I grew up eating sandwiches. It is amazing. it's for me for me like I'm putting this in a tier I think there's a there's a step above because you can still get like a little bit more satiating but if we're talking about midnight snack starting your day you don't want a big breakfast man just get that handful of turkey you good see

I'm okay with that we can go we can go out here with that it is very macro friendly I get you I make fun of you for this because when you're dieting you're a fucking degenerate about this meat I'd be like what you have for dinner hey hey hey yeah I'm like I have a handful of turkeys I'm like, what are you talking about? Don't put down me. Like, I'm like, I have three grapes and a handful of turkey.

I'm like, what? Oh, he's trying to make you be an almond mom. It's an aggressive. He's an all of that. It's an aggressive deficit. That's what I was doing.

Okay. I actually, I look at you with those and S, bro. It's not even, it's not like a protein food, if you know what I mean? Like, it's not like branded as like some alternative.

Yeah, it's just ham. Like, and it goes ham. I guess what we put in A. Yeah, there you go I see a fair life in there 42 gram chocolate

Corpower Glenn S tier come on listen microplastics be damned what fair life has managed to accomplish is an amazing act

of food science It needs to be studied It does I would not be able to die In the 70s I'm a system player Facts Like I got a I got a crave

over there right now I have them right before the show I chucked I don't know if I got it on me They changed the game It's by far the best tasting protein The macros are great it just tastes like chocolate milk

easy yesterday it doesn't matter bro dead ass back in the day the vanilla is literally just melted ice cream the strawberry one also melted ice cream it's amazing

hey man we gotta hit up our we gotta hit up age oh please get us a fairer last sponsorship today we need a fair life sponsorship please I need that I need that all right so this is again shout out Mo

actually I don't like these but he tried to putting us onto these pop tarts I don't know how you all feel about them I don't like them. That was some of the worst. No, that was some of the worst protein stuff I've ever held. Here's the thing. Here's the thing.

I agree. That time we had my mo, it was disgusting. I eat these frequently now. They have the worst quality control I've ever seen in a product. The worst quality control. I eat quite frequently now. I've grown to like the chocolate ones a lot. They have no consistency.

Sometimes they're delicious. Sometimes they're dry and mid. It kind of varies. Their quality control is horrendous. But when it hits, it is fantastic. You guys kind of on a bad. day they are very good i can't take take that risk with the with the protein stack i need you to be i need you to be solid i need you to be consistent i need to know that whenever i'm opening that's fair

because it's expensive too yeah they're they're very expensive that's why they'd be though if they were always great they'd be a or s i think the lack of i got to say i don't think they can go higher i'm i would say d oh now they're good they're better indeed my personal experience is d i've explained the difference we're going see okay well my personal my personal experience up so split the difference but indies well mine is ass how about that where to go from here all right all right you got listen Isaac we had this nasty ass ghost protein cereal at your house in l.A. last month that dude I've tried so many fucking protein cereals I want cereal to be back in my life so bad since I've been cutting I haven't been able to eat it because the macros are just horrendous

I can't do it every single protein cereal is fucking terrible I've tried like four different flavors they're all terrible after I've never I don't know if I've tried that one I had like this like fruity puff version of ghost cereal awful. I'll see you do that.

No, I just, you just gotta get the regular fair life milk and use that with regular cereal and just

charge it. Like the, it's not, yeah, it's not gonna be like the greatest it's a write-off you've ever seen.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I tried to see what mini-weets. I try to see what a serving size of mini-weets are. It's 20,

20 biscuits, it says on the box. I put this in a bowl. I was like, I eat like three times that when I have mini-weets. I was crazy.

I'm not going to lie, those 20 go nuts. Whenever you're like cut brain. They're delicious, but I'm never in 20. Slow, piece by piece. Exactly. You got to dip it with like chopsticks and they get some substitute. Boy, bien. All right.

Next up, beef jerky. Real food. Oh, that's dear. That's dear. Whenever I'm traveling and I know that I'm going to say great airport food. If I know that I'm not going to be eating like, you know, the best of stuff. but not going to be able to get like my protein in for the day. You start out with the cool power and a thing of beef jerky.

That's 50 grams of protein off the rip. That poor person on the plane next to you. It's amazing. Oh, listen, you're making the plane stink. The bad, not even from far as you're alluding to. You open a bag of protein, I mean, a bag of beef jerky. The whole aisle smells it. Well, that just, that's just like the terriarchy.

Again, that's the bag. I'm talking about just the little, the little pack of the stick. Like two strips of beef jerky. That in itself is like 53 grams of protein If you put it with the core power If you get the whole bag You're at like 70, you're good for basically No, you love, you always talk about meat sticks

So that makes sense Anyways, so string cheese Moving on I don't know I don't like string cheese So I abstain, you guys pick this one Honestly, the rest of this list I don't fucking like You have a lot of yogurts on here No, it's not

We can get back to that But yeah, string cheese I did you know decent macros You said B Yeah, it's not bad Sure I do like that It's like a real food

Like I fuck with that But yeah It's pretty good Okay This one is more generic But just protein ice cream If you are If you like

Have a massive sweet tooth And you like Need ice cream in your life It'll get the job done I put it at C There's some Like halo top is really good But I personally

I'm not a big ice cream person So I'm the biggest ice cream Yeah I don't really rock with that So you said any protein ice cream Can I count my niger cream? Yeah, I can. Yeah, you can.

Estere. Immediately, Estere. Nid cream is a game changer for me, like getting tasty ice cream for like 40 grams of protein for serving. Estere. Okay. I mean, I can't argue with that.

This is just a placeholder. I love ice cream. So, like, it's discovering that I can have healthy ice cream changed my dieting life. It's not my bag. Okay. Light and fit, Dan, Greek yogurt. No. I fucking hate Greek yogurt so much.

This year, I hate Greek yogurt. This is my bag. I'm putting, I'm putting this in a, eight in a tier i the only reason why is that like the there's sometimes with like you look at especially when you start like weighing your stuff out and you start weighing out the serving side you're like damn this is kind of a lot of yogurt but bro it's so much it really is and there's sometimes where like people talk about getting the egg from eating eggs there's sometimes where i've got me from

from just the amount of yogurt but macros of fire tastes is really good it's honestly like I've used just a little bit on like rice cakes or stuff like that or put them in smoothies. It's fantastic. I'm putting in age. Yeah. All right. I'll take your word for it.

Again, I don't think this isaig's bag, but cottage cheese. Ugh. I knew that was coming. I've tried. Isaac has talked about me being a degenerate. Now, have I tried this? Yes. Is this a staple in my cut diet?

No, because that's just a little bit too much for me right now. But if I was like, hey, I have like 600 calories to use it in a day or I just need to like sneak in extra stuff, then maybe. But it's not. They want it better than I want it. No, it's actually, it's actually really versatile. Like people blend it up so it's smooth and like make like an Alfredo sauce from it. I have or do you use it?

I have two mac and cheese. No, it's actually not terrible. It's just like a ricotta honestly. Thank you. Don't believe you. Bro, you get like the box mac and cheese and then you use like the little powder that they have with the cottage cheese get that protein sauce on it no that's the way to go no i refuse i'm i'm going beat here personally put you on this game you got you got to you got to come along for the

ride no i don't want that game and i'm not sure if y'all have tasted this last one this pre game take keep it listen this one is just for mo because he recommended it to me it's like these little protein puffs have you guys tried these no no i can't even i don't know what it is they're like little cheese balls. I'll speak for Mo. They're fucking terrible. So I specifically he's at the grocery store and I FaceTimed him. I was like, yo, like give me, I just point about like the wall of the protein snacks. And he's like, you need to get those. They're so good, totally worth it. I paid like four dollars for like a little bag. Absolutely disgusting. Like the worst thing I've ever tried. That's when I realized he has terrible taste buds. I need to know how

he's not, he does not have the protein. Yeah. Again, he's not here to speak for himself, but that man will eat like egg whites and barbecue sauce whenever he's trying to shed some weight and that's our protein tier list the tier list you never thought you needed but now you have time for TikTok time welcome to TikTok time

welcome to TikTok time today we're not starting with the draft for you people that click just straight to TikTok time you see there's only two of us here today we have one less Mojo 99 with this like I said at the top of the show got to, you know, get that out there again for the coronators who only watch TikTok time. I see you.

So, a little bit different TikToks today since there's only two of us and change the formats a little bit. Hey, man, that should be fun. The first thing we're going to do, we are once again going to chill ourselves for NFL views. We're looking straight to the algorithm,

eye to eye, and I'm like, give me those football views. And what I want you to do, Donovan, is I want you to tell me who the NBA equivalent is for these NFL players. Okay. So, you know, explain these NFL players in NBA terms. Okay.

So, first up, we have Tom Brady. Who's the NBA equivalent to Mr. Brady? See, so we can go ghost status, and you can just say LeBron, right? Yeah, but it is different. It's so different, though, the way they win. I know. Who's somebody, like? My brain goes to Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and how he had the longevity.

He won in multiple eras with multiple strong supporting cast. he said he gets carried by his defense, Kareem got carried by magic at the end, if you want to say that, like there's some parallels. They didn't do it alone, but they did it for a long time. Low key,

low key, you could say step curry here, just because if you want, if you want to go complete path, working your way up from the bottom and then getting all the way to superstardom, that, that archetype is kind of where they fit together.

Okay. Yeah, especially because he has a 20-22 ring. If he wins one more ring and has like another old man era, then I can see that. Yeah. Okay, I like that one.

Next one. Obviously, Tim Duncan is another good one to say, played forever, won forever. Oh, I could. Yeah, we could have went to him. Because this one, this is Steph Curry. This is, this is excellent. Next up, Patrick Mahomes. Yes.

Change Tom Brady to Tim Duncan, and we will have Patrick. We were have Patrick Mahomes at Steph Curry. You want to talk about guys who come in, light the league on fire, guys who change the way that the position is played. Guys who instantly rose up the all-time conversation. That is Steph Curry. And that is Patrick Moms. Yeah, and they were both a little bit overlooked in the draft process for whatever reasons.

Like, the league didn't quite see their play style being as dominant as it was. In fact, some of their strengths were kind of viewed as weaknesses in a way for both of them. Awesome. They just fun. It's fun. Just guys. Just going out there. Just having a good time.

Guys being dudes. Love it. Just backyard. Backyard ball. Nothing better. Toss a pigskin. Tots a pigskin. I'm just got to grip the leather.

Yeah, I mean, shout out who's next, man. Yo, his videos are great. Oh, do I love him. I love him so much. I love that he wraps and all of his stuff now. Yeah. Great twist. I love how he's changed it over to like the misdirect to give his channel a second life. Oh, what is that?

And you see cramshads are coming out of nowhere. But yeah. And like, obviously you could say Mahomes is the most talented player ever. I guess you could say Steph is the most talented point guard ever if you want to go there. Clear parallels. Facts. All right, next up, Tyreek Hill. Listen, this is, this is Janus.

We are the same wavelength with all these. This is fact, this is so Janus. It's so easy. So many people look at Janus and say, he's a running dunk man. And then they look at Tyreek and they say, he just runs fast. And then, however, you look at their production, they produce at all-time levels. You look at the stuff that they've accomplished, all-time accomplishments. They're both all-time grades in terms of what they do.

and I think that's the perfect cop form. Yeah, they're both, like, they're both discounted because they rely on athleticism, but they have underrated technique for both of them that, like, allow us athleticism to shine. Like, it sets them apart that Tyreek Hill isn't Deshawn Jackson for these reasons, and Janice isn't Sean Kemp for these reasons.

You know, they kind of have things that put them apart. Yeah. If you would overlook, it's so clear. I like that. Look at this. Okay, that was an easy one. Derek Henry. This is, this is John Morant.

This is Zion Williamson. Listen, if you're talking about size, yes. If you're talking about, if you're talking about play style and effectiveness, I'm going John Moran. Because I have never seen anybody just love to run through somebody's face over and over and over again. Sounds like Zion. Do straight group force. I'm bigger than you. I'm stronger than you.

I'm faster than you. Stop me. You can't do it. It's the attempt, right? But sometimes it's disrespect. Zion, while he is amazing, he doesn't have that disrespectful aspect to his game.

John jump over you and dunk on you. John Moran tries to embarrass you. Derek Henry would take his hand, mush you and throw you 10 yards behind you. He's disrespectful on his run, so I'm going John Moran. Okay. John Moran is going to be fitting for a lot of players.

John Rand is a football player put into the NFL. All right, next one. Travis Kelsey. who are the frat boys of the NBA right now hear me out hear me out Nicole Yokic

both of them are unorthodox wizards Nicole Yokish you can't guard him he's gonna throw a crazy pass anytime you try and do anything to him Travis Kelsey

you can't guard him in space he's in a final way to get open you're gonna be like what the hell I just saw him somewhere else Travis Kelsey cannot block Yokic cannot block shots they both have their weakness but they're both magical

like if they're both white It fits. Thank you. Thank you. That's all we're waiting for. You pick the two white guys who look unathletic but are actually Hall of Famers in the best of their position. So I will allow it. Yes.

Travis Kelsey is Nicolio. Next up. Josh Allen. Ooh. See. You said John Moran earlier. You said John Moran earlier. This is John Morant.

So you want to talk about all. throw my body downhill every single time, reckless abandon. I'm diving. That sounds like Josh Allen and John Moranthamie. If we're talking about, listen, we're talking about current, yes. If we're talking about all time, it's kind of way, wait. Just reckless abandon for your body. We're going to go everywhere.

We're going to throw everything. I don't care who is in front of me. I'm going to try and jump over five people. Listen, if you have anybody that's reckless in their play style, they are Josh Allen. See, I feel like that's John Moran's weakness, right? He gets himself hurt because he has like the worst decision making ever on when to jump over people. That sounds like Josh Allen to me. It's like, okay.

See, John knows he can jump over you and he wants to every time. Josh Allen knows he can throw that bitch 70 yards and he wants to every time. It's John Morant's play style and ability with a Josh Hart mindset. Josh Hart be having one play in every single game where he just throws the ball 10 feet into the stance. You're like, bro, what would you think? Those two combined, it's Josh Allen. Also, it's a little bit like Russell Westbrook, where it's like you have all the physical traits in the world.

Sometimes the decision making leaves a living to be desired. What are you doing? Yes, I like that. Okay. Justin Jefferson. I mean, listen, the picture's coming out. He's Anthony Edwards in a former one for aura, man. It really is.

The cop doesn't make any more. more sense. You have these two young stars from Minnesota. They're both at the top of their crowd. They're both leading the league in or doing all that. They go handing in. Yeah, you can't talk about either of them without their coolness being like a defining factor, clearly. And they're both at top of their position for a long time. It's a good, good one. I like that. All right. Next one, Christian McCaffrey. Hmm. This is interesting because I actually don't have one off, off, the top of my head but just somebody we need somebody who can do absolutely everything somebody

who is extremely versatile do i'll say this i'll say this i'll say this i'll say this do i need to state the obvious no i'll say this is this not no no no no no that's not him this is christian mcalfrey is jason tatum the idea right like when jason tatum is like on and you're like oh wow he could do absolutely everything this should be a top five player ta-da-da-da-da when he's there That's Christian McCaffrey. So if I'm not picking a Caucasian, I kind of think he has the same vibe as Shea. What? You don't see that one?

Please explain. They both just are very fundamental, not particularly flashy. Watching CMC is not the most thrilling. Oh, I just trucked him. I just ran over it. It's just very fundamental. I'm going to hit the right hole, make the right read, do everything right. That's kind of how I feel watching Shea.

They're both relatively stoic, peak of their fields. you don't see that I think you're off on this one listen if we if you want if you want do what we always do white man a white man he's Luca duchess I'll sit on me

I'll settle you what's the wrong with Shea I don't know I just think that don't make me say it don't make me say it say it is that she has the athletic either okay I mean

I think for his crowd CMC has aura Fair Fair You got me there CMC is not Uncool CMC is not lame

You know Like No he's not He's not lame But there's a level of order That she has When it's like All right

Like you clearly I think Barstall comments Might view CMC In the same way I don't know I don't I also don't know either

I'm also don't know But I think I'd like to double check that Because I don't I have to conduct A That's a I'll have to do scouting in the neighborhoods.

I'll do a poll. Okay, that's the end of that. Next thing we're going to do. I know you're a bit of a gambler. You're a bit of a... I'm a dabble. You know, I dabble from time to time. So we're going to dabble a little bit in that.

And we're not going to talk gambling, but we're going to talk over-unders. Okay. And that's kind of just the way to get to what we're going to talk about. I'm going to name two NBA teams, and I want you to let me know who you think Vegas expects to win more games next year. Okay. So I got the overrunners, how many games are expected at overunder? Just let me know who you think is a higher line.

Guess the lines? Shout out Bill Simmons. Yeah. Yeah, but I guess the lines. Who has a higher line? I got you. Shout out Bill Simmons. Podfather.

First off, the Atlanta Hawks are Chicago Bulls. Who was expected one more games by Las Vegas? I think the Hawks are expected to win more. I think the Bulls are, while they are consistently made, Somehow that is, somehow that is an overperformance. I think, I still think. I like that. They're expected to be a three out of ten and they always find their way to be a five out of ten.

Exactly. And nobody wants it. It's to the happiness of nobody. I don't understand why they insist on being five out of ten. Everybody knows that in their hearts. Maybe, listen, maybe they just have the most dog and they just fight their way to be five out of ten. But I love that. The bulls seek out mid.

The hawks are drawn to it by a magnetic force. Exactly. But I'm going with the Atlanta Hawks. And you will be correct. The Atlanta Hawks are expecting to win 35 and a half and the Bulls are 28 and a half. Yes. They expect the Bulls to be horrible. And guess what?

41 wins for the Bulls. On that fucking dot. It's just going to have that. I'm taking it in. Bet your overs. Next up, the Warriors or the Miami Heat? Do we still believe in the Miami? Listen, I'm going with the Warriors because even though

that they are in the Western Conference. Everybody in the West, especially people from like 6 through 10, we always talk about them, like the sky is falling. Then you look up, and there's three wins away from 50 wins out of the season. I'm going with the Warriors. The bottom of the east is like, like it's not. It's barbecue. It's terriaki chicken.

It's lemon pepper. It's whatever chicken you want. You are feasting on the bottom of the east. I'm going with the Warriors. Oof You were wrong The Mamie here Are expecting to win one more game than the Warriors

They're getting tricked They're getting tricked I don't know man The Warriors I don't expect good things To come in the future for them I'll say that Okay

Next up The Grizzlies or the Milwaukee Bucks Okay Well Seeing what we just saw I'm a bet on I'm a bet on The Milwaukee Bucks

I think that you can look at the Eastern Conference and say that with their schedule is going to be a little bit easier than going through the gauntlet of the Memphis Grizzlies. And even though that they're getting job back and they're getting everybody healthy and don't forget, Dimin Eadie, he's on the way. It's still going to be a very tough path for the gris. Give me the Milwaukee Bucks. You are correct. The bucks are expected to win three extra games.

Yeah, I don't think the general public views EDI is like instant star that's going to come in and make a big difference to them as if it's still a question mark. They don't get it. They don't understand. they don't see the vision and not everybody can that's fine exactly they don't know what we know and that's why listen when we doubt everybody can see it it wouldn't be a vision we're taking the over on the grislies understand what they're about to do they're about they're about to run the league it's about to be great this is des and main league we just live in it you better

believe that the clippers or the lakers who's winning the laud off I'm still going with with the lakers i think i think losing paul george you're going to see a little bit of movement there you already have to bake in kawai you know missing 20 games here at least exactly with the lakers you still have brawn you still have a d they made the playoffs last year and you're also going to have a lot of people just put more faith into into the lakers it's going to drive it up give me the lakers better over i think j j j reddick moves betters in mass i think he might give them a lot of cloud boys points. And you were correct. The Lakers are expected to win three more games. Yeah. Yeah, that'll make sense. Listen, the Lakers had a very, very, they went out very sadly.

Don't be surprised. I, listen, I hate them. But they might be good next year. The Spurs or the Raptors? Ah, this is tough. This is tough. Once again, the Spurs everybody's play to get higher. Do we love Chris Ball? Do we love Sophan Castle? not really personally i think they're cool dudes don't think they like chris ball exactly don't think they're not sure i'd love anybody 38 years old in the NBA it's kind of old give me give me the toronto raptors by one game over the san antonio sports that is hilariously incorrect the spurs are expected to win seven more games in the raptors nobody fucks with canada sports

books and you alike good disrespect i like that like that give me this first i was hoping i was wrong you were praying on your own downfall yeah uh next up sons or 76ers uh 76ers kind of easy i think listen you don't believe in the sons no no no come back no no no nobody should believe in the sons nobody should Kevin Durant he's 38 and 37 Booker no no no no no no bradley deal that name does not move me at all listen i'm rason allen okay so i can't even talk that's ridiculous i'm talking about gracing out now i'm going with the sixes though i think i think the trio of imbiz maxi and mpg that moves me much more than bokadd

booker you know what that moves vegas as well they're expected to win three more games yeah that makes sense they cross 50 Same line as the bucks, interesting. The Kings or the Magic? I'm going with the Orlando Magic. Again, I'm following this path. I think that the good teams in the East are expected to do a little bit more just because the bottom of the East is so bad.

And the Kings... The West cannibalizes itself. The Kings, you got to Murder Rosen. Shout out to you. You did need another piece. You kept Malik Monk. Shout out to you. I thought he was going to be gone.

But y'all aren't doing anything this year? That's not going to happen. And it's not in the car to the Kings. The magic are still expected to do something. Everybody said the Palo is going to rise up. I'm on that train. Give me the Orlando Magic. They're expected to win one more game than the Kings.

It's real close, but I think Vegas believes in the Palo rise. 46 is high for Sacramento. That feels high. I guess, but I mean, so many of these teams in that range are going to be floating around that area. I know, but I can rattle all five teams easy that I think are going to be above them and then it's like what? 47? 40, you think? I don't know. I won't be shocked

if DeMarre leads to a lot of regular season wins. If that looks a little better than we think. Now, will that lead to playoff wins? I don't necessarily think so. But I won't be shocked if it's a playoff success relatively. 47's a lot, man. I don't know. Listen, the 47 wins like the seven seed in the west. Like, it's not like it's extremely high. It still feels a lot.

Yeah. The Timberwolves or the Mavs? Okay, do we bet on the one team from last year? Do we bet on the team that made the finals team last year? That just added Clay Thompson. With the best player on either team. Ooh, this is tough, this tough. I'm the guy who's getting a lot of buzz is the best player in the world, maybe.

You know, he's a lot of hype. See, you're doing a lot of talking here, so I feel like you're trying to steer me to Dallas. I'm just filling air. And I'm going to go with Dallas, too. I'm going to go with the Mavericks here. I'm glad you did that because that is fucking incorrect they are expected to win

three less games in the triple wolves he got me he got me and I knew you would get me too I knew it was a center and I walked right into it I get fucked

and that's the end of that next thing we're going to do I'm going to have you guess the top 10 NBA nicknames right now in the league according to Ranker so we've done this before or listen, sometimes I hit a ranker

and see what they got going for us and they rank the best NBA nicknames in 2024. So again, just current players. And I don't know if you agree with them or not, but this is who they think have the best nicknames. Okay. Wait, do I have to guess the nickname or just the player? Oh, you just said the player.

We'll be here all fucking day if you guess the, if you guess the spot on the list and shit. But I mean, it's everybody's nickname so you can kind of, I mean, no, say the nickname. Yeah, yeah. You don't got to guess where it is in a list. Okay. Okay, so real simple

1 through 10 Guess the top 10 nicknames According to Ranker Okay Number one Well, forget it King James On LeBron

Uh King James is number eight Thank goodness Chef Curry LeBron I mean steps Chef Curry Is obviously on this list

He is number three Thank you I honestly thought he'd be hired Number three Do we have Let's see Do we have We have the beard on here

you know for a fact we have the beard on here the beard is number 10 do we have the brow kind of low kind of low for the beard I thought the beard is a little bit higher he's falling off he's going down he lost his aura he's to shave that beard exactly

the brow the brow is not on this list Greek freak Greek freak is on top of this list at number one thank you Antman I'm kind of surprised Greek freak is number one

it's it's the rhyming thing is it's kind of cool yeah it rolls the tongue well yeah that's good mouth feel yeah yeah yeah what's the next uh i say ant man ant man is not on this list that's a bit too close to his name it's not like a nickname nickname uh the joker the joker the joker is on this list he is number four okay we're going slim reaper slim reaper slim reaper is number two on this list. Now, this summer, he finally said he likes it. So it's officially a Kevin Duran nickname. He's claimed it.

It might be number one. Okay, so I'm trying to, I'm trying to think through, like, the best players in, in the league. Trying to think, trying to think about that. Can we go? Is ice tray on here? He's not. Hmm. That is tough.

Is... There's three guards and one forward left. Three guards, one forward. Hmm. all pretty popular names are they also you might not think of he's a popular player yeah they're all stars okay three are very popular nicknames one you might not think about but he's a very popular player de book the book is not on here that's not a nickname that's just a name this is now i'm not going on that was kind of stupid of me

That was kind of dumb. Can we go with the process for Joel and Bean? Oh, the process did not make this list. What are we talking about pool party? Jordan Pool? No, dude, we're just such easy ones left. Brody? Russell Westbrook.

Ah, you give up. I think you might be cooked. I might be. You lose. Terrible attempts. At five, we have dame time. At six, we have Spida. Seven, we have The Claw, and nine, we have Uncle Drew.

Okay, yeah, I said he got that. I said he got that. Yeah, not your finest showing. That's fair. That's fair. Do you want to apologize to the people? I mean, listen, I forgot about Kauai. He barely played.

So. That's your reasoning? You have one pass, three. Dave time should have been super easy. Yeah, I guess so. If I get a book, I should have guessed. same time a book

a book right next thing we're going to do no we've done games in the past where I name an NBA player right now

and we talk about who would rather build around them versus their peers we're going to do a variation of that with all-time players

and we're doing Alan Irison today and instead of me going Alan Iverson and so-and-so and so and like listing

you know players who'd rather have we're going to put these players through like a level of sort I'm going to have five players in a row a gonlet per se I'm going to have five players with increasing levels of skill

and we're going to see how high he can rank if you can get to the top worth one of the best players in the world okay so it's kind of the same thing but it's a level system not necessarily just random names that's wrong

so without further ado would Alan Iverson be better or worse than these modern NBA stars for level one we got Trey Young all right so so the initial reaction is to say yes obviously because alan iverson i think that's the right reaction he would be better than tray young yes i'm taking allan iverson yeah listen level one's a layup he he'd be better than traeong i feel very safe saying that as much as i like treyong yes listen tra young he's over he's overhated right now by alan iverson

barry he's extremely underrated but this is allan iverson okay level two Jalen Brown Yeah On his MVP Yes I'm still I'm still thinking Alan Iverson over Jaylon Brown That is that is pretty clear cut to me Now this is where we're gonna start getting

You know getting dicey Because obviously Jayla Brown can fit into any system Amazing two-way player like you said Finals MVP can do a lot But again this is the answer This is Alan Iverson We can't disrespect The game is about a bucket

You said to yourself Multiple times And Alan Leverston Is it is a lot I fucking hate myself for saying that level three Devin Booker

now listen this is an interesting one don't do it don't do it I'm still going on an Irishman but I have to think about it I have to think about it I don't think I don't think

I have to think about it I think now I think that one aspect I didn't think that long I didn't think that long but I instantly said yes to the other guys I'm at least going to consider

did i'm at least going to consider devon booker's versatility before i go to iverson because he's a fucking bucket thank you thank you can you keep all that and her stuff i'm talking about buckets here i don't care about versatility portability

out of scalability i don't care about none of that none of the abilities i don't care about buckets do weeps no give me allan iverson man with like get the tangibility of his off-ball movement.

Then what? No one of that. Okay, okay. Level four. We got Shea Gildles Alexander. Oh, no. Oh, no. That was interesting.

This is the modern NBA. Shea is the most efficient driver in the NBA. Would that be Alan Iverson with spacing? This is modern day, Alan Iverson. Just lower? Listen, this is, this is so hard. This is so hard. It's hard because.

Defensively, listen, I know Alan Iverson led the league and steals and everything. Shea's a better defender. That's the John Stockman stuff. Yeah. Alan Iverson would tell you to your face that he was not a good defender. Yeah. And Alan Iverson was obviously way less efficient, but that's the era. He would be a lot more efficient today with elite spacing around him.

Would he be Shea as a score? He could be. It's not crazy. I think, yes. I think if you were to make the point on Chase's defense, hey, you got me there, right? You got me there. I think if we are just talking about scoring

and you are giving Alan Iverson the benefit of the doubt that he's going to be more efficient today, I do think that you have to go with Alan Iverson. But it's not just scoring. Who's a better player? There's a set of mental gymnastics. Who was the better player? Who would you want on your team?

I'm going to tell you, stop putting me in these positions because I don't like to do this. Take a stand. I'm going to take Alan Iverson. about like this much okay that's honestly fair if you project that his scoring would be unstoppable for this era like it was in that era but it would be highly efficient because of spacing that's fine yeah it's been again so at level five we got Luca donchich all right he got it he got it he got it this is the red job on the line this is Alan you had a great run

AI you're awesome where I take the stand it's Luca donchitz we got to take it yeah you had a great run you could be the eighth best player in the league maybe the sixth best you're not going to be a top two player like luca is oh man that's so tough that is so tough but lucca scott just does it all man there's nothing there's nothing he can't do different okay man that's the end of that level four for allan hours is pretty good well yeah i'm gonna bring this back she isn't bad she's a hard one like that's that's about who we'd be like the fifth or six best player in the world. She's really hard for a lot of like all time

comps and like projecting people over. Yeah, because he hasn't been done doing it that long yet, but like he's incredible. He's just he's just 35 and five every night we get defense. Just like second an MVP. Once he makes some deep conference finals runs and like maybe gets an MVP, it's going to be easier to stomach these type of things. After he wins the finals this year.

Yeah, type shit. Like we might look back next year and be like, oh, we definitely have Shay then on Iverson. It might be. Different conversation. Tight. But okay. We got one more TikTok left.

One more. And to do this one, to execute it well, I'm going to bring in for the second time this episode, producing a kill. Oh.

What we're going to do today is we're going to do a trivia game. You know, there's only two of us here. There's no mo. So we've got to take advantage of that. And we've got to go one-on-one. Hell in a cell.

Oh. Who can answer trivia questions better? Who are you? Oklahoma Drew. Let's roll Yeah, Coloma Joe. Hat on the hat

We're going at it And yeah, Nikiel's going to be the host of it. Had on the hat. Okay, so, Nikiel, what are we going to do? What do we guess? All right, y'all, listen,

so Mo prepped a variety of trivia questions. It's pretty scattered. So I made a slide show. I molded her for you. Yeah, yeah. Okay, listen. He's not a bunch of random questions.

But his impact has felt. Exactly. I feel them every day. Oh my God So the first question This guy's crazy Who do you think has a higher career high Between

Oh sorry Dremont Green or Cheap Ah Did Chech go crazy At all this year My I wanna I'm gonna go on Dream on Green Pure sample size

There has to be a game Where he went crazy And had like 38 points or something I don't remember Chad doing that I'll go dream on as well you guys are both wrong oh chat has scored 36 for a career high and draymond's only scored 31 what did draymond have in that finals game

uh well when you talk about people's career high it never goes to playoffs ah whack but he had 32 so actually still would have count it doesn't matter anyways shout out chad hongren my guy okay okay over over over one whatever we'll come back stronger all right we'll learn from his loss So who do you think has more career three-pointers? Kyle Corver or LeBron James? We're talking about career. LeBron James.

LeBron. LeBron, got it. It's supposed to be a trick question. We're going with LeBuki. Listen, you got tricked. God damn it, man. I can't win shit. Listen, it's still a tight game.

It's still a tight game. Not my finest night. I don't care about getting them all right. I just need to get more than Isaac, and I'll be okay. mo's going to be smiling he got y'all ah motherfucker all right who has more

bozo fuck at the slideshow we see the answer this is terrible bozo so going on the next question which player holds a record for the most career points scored

in the NBA playoffs without winning a championship in the playoffs without winning a championship so who played for a long time So they never had one It's not a former championship This is Carmelo It's a good answer My bad

My bad It's not Carmel Nasty man My bad There you go You fucking sicko I'm sorry It's kind of

It's either Nasty Man or James Hardin Nassim had a lot of Playoff runs though No Let me not try to do the same answer as you I got James Hardin The answer is Charles Barkley.

Oh, my God, we can't get anything. We suck at trivia. The first of one point wins. Got to get one on the board. Where is the third session? You need them. That's all it is. It's just a good defense.

Okay, what's next? First point wins, man. All right. Who's the first player to record a triple double in a regular season game after turning 40 years old? after turning 40 years old so who's played

into the 40 who's played after 40 I mean John Stockton I guess uh it can't LeBron can't not many guys played into their 40

and we're able to get 10 assists I gotta go John Stockton is it somehow Vince Carter I hope what it's either John Stockton or Jason kid but I'll go John Stockton who is it

reveal He said Vince Carter. Ah, I should have won with Jason Kidd. Zero, zero battle. This is the worst game of trivia of all time. Most goodness. Can you say, can you say it's Jason Kidd for the TikTok? Yeah, it's Jason Kidd.

Oh, my God. All right. Next up, who led the NBA in Seals in 2024? This past year. Is it Shay? I'm going to Shay. What's it Shay? I can't remember now.

Why am I mind blanking? It's not just Jones. Is it Jalen Suggs? It is not Jalen Sugs. Okay, well, he said Shay, I said Sugs. Who is it? It's Fred Van Vleet. Fred Rico?

Oh my God, we don't know anything. Listen, it's been a long offseason. I haven't read in on the season again. This is tough. Man, my brain has been on Deontay Johnson Target Share on Buffalo, Tampa Bay percentage of runs on first down. I have not been thinking about this. I'm trying to project wide receivers careers two years into the future,

trying to determine value. This is not good. All right, there's four more questions. Listen, I hope y'all can get one on the board. We're stopping as soon as we get to one right. The first answer ends the episode. Who was the first player to win the NBA MVP award while playing for a team that did not make the playoffs?

Wes Unselled. The name's going to be more modern than you think. think. Okay, never mind. I take that back. A little more modern. That's it. All these. One of the people were without making the playoffs. Hmm. And then most... I didn't make the playoffs. This is so tough. I don't know.

I'm giving it about it. I don't know. Donovan, you might have gotten this. It's 1994, Hakeem. that can't be right they won the championship what is Mo talking about listen I I was just giving these questions I

don't know what was it 1994 Hakeem literally won literally won a championship even when Mo's not here he should get trivia questions wrong what is this we don't we don't claim this L has that ever happened has that ever been an MVP i don't know maybe not asked me i couldn't think of one

that's ridiculous yeah okay next next question all right which player played the most minutes in twenty twenty four jaylon brunson wait no to him his games the most total minutes josh hart i'm going josh hart that man never got to rest maybe i'm just remembering the playoffs but i feel like all year josh hart which just ran into the ground Who's out here, but it's crazy because I need somebody who's playing like 34 minutes a night. Actually, no, no. He wasn't, I changed my mind. I'm going to go with Jenlin Brunson. I'm going to go with Nick because Tom Tibuto does not believe in benches. And I feel like Jen and Brunson had to have been out there the most out of all those starters. Who is? Can you give me? I'll go with Tyrese Maxie. Okay. Oh, that's a good answer. Tyrese Maxie. The answer is Deeran Fox.

Bro, I'm never going to get a question right. This is outrageous. There's two left. We are the worst trivia players in the fucking world. Look across the NBA community and realize we are the dumbest ones. But the guys from nurses, they just have like, they just have a sense going off right now. They're like, ah, it's bad trivia. They're sneezing. They don't know anything. All right, which NBA team was the first to sign a black player?

Man. Was it, it wasn't, wasn't, wasn't, I feel like that's your question. Was it the Celtics? I'm going with the Celtics. You guys are right, it was the Celtics. It was Chuck Cooper in 1950. We got one. We did it.

We finally got one. We did it. But we're still tied, but I see who wins. We got to keep going. Oh, the tiebreaker is great. What number did Pepe? What number did Pepe Sanchez wear in his one season with Philly? I hate most so much.

Is it 21 or 20? It's 20 something, I think. I'm going to go 20 You know what 37 I'm going to go 24 Okay 24

Whatever most closer wins Whoever was closer wins Number four Pepe Sanchez is one number four I fucking That's me I told you I don't care about getting I got more points

Is there more questions left No It's the last one Two one victory It's honestly one one but You're like one point. It's 1.5 to 1. We are the worst trivia players in the world.

And that's the end of this episode. We'll be back next week with Mojo 99. We'll be back. The full D3 will be here. We'll see you guys next week. You're still here. Comment low. Please come back.