The Deep 3 Podcast - We Put The Last 20 NBA Finals Teams In A Tier List | Ep. 146

Episode Date: June 20, 2025

Today we rank the NBA finals teams from the last 10 years! #nba Check out the TD3 merch: https://the-deep-3-shop.fourthwall.com/ Listen on Spotify!: https://open.spotify.com/show/3elbbqVumwqz8wlIdknsLW Listen on Apple Podcasts!: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-deep-3-podcast/id1657940794 Follow us on TikTok!: https://www.tiktok.com/@thedeepthree Follow us on Instagram!: https://www.instagram.com/thedeep3podcast/ Isaac's twitter: https://twitter.com/byisaacg Mo's twitter: https://twitter.com/Mojo99_ Donnavan's twitter: https://twitter.com/Dsmoot3D 0:00- Intro 1:32- NBA Finals Game 6 Reaction 39:00- Tier Listing Last 20 NBA Finals Teams 1:36:49- tiktok time Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We have to open this episode by talking about, obviously, the thing on everybody's mind, one of the most egregious, hard-to-watch scenes you've ever seen on TV, just absolute disaster meltdown. We have to talk about Houda melting down on Jeremiah, live in America. Listen, Hurricane Huda is, that's Category 5. Huda, Huda, why would I care? Who the hell is Huda? What the hell is a Huda?

No, I'm kidding. We had to talk about the second most embarrassing thing to happen on TV this week. We asked to talk about the Thunder, losing Game 6, but I don't know what the final score is because we're recording this with like 10 seconds left in the game because we stop watching with a few minutes left to go to start reporting to give you guys a live reaction because, man, the patients are forced to Game 7

in the most dramatic way possible by beating the hell out of the thunder. We're going to talk about that at length, give you guys our raw reactions to it as the game just ended. Preview Game 7, talk about everything that comes with, you know, a game 7 in the finals, doesn't happen a lot. Then after that, as you guys see by the title, we're going to put the last 20, finals teams into a tier list.

So basically from every year from 2016 through now, including the Paceous and Thunder, we're going to rank them, see how these two teams after Fortune game seven, you know, stack up against the rest of teams across modern history. Facts. Big facts. Lots of talk about. Let's get sure you ready to do it. Let's go.

The cranium is crazy. Oh my God. I mean, I don't know what to say. So like we said, we'll start off with a reaction to game six of the NBA finals. Indiana ended up winning 108 to 91. The only word to describe this game is embarrassing. Yes. Last game, last episode, I think we came in here after the Pacers took the 2-1 lead, won game three.

And my main takeaway was, I just respect the hell of the Pacers. They just simply won that game, beat OKC on both ends. it was completely we're better than you on this night. You gave us a good punch but our punch was better and I was hesitant to slander OKC on that time

because I wanted to focus on the Pacers just being way better than everybody thought deserving of the respect deserving of the praise not to focus too much other team.

It was their night. Tonight is not that night. This is all about OKC being pathetic tonight. This was such a terrible performance. That is the word that I was going to use

is pathetic because I'm mad for so many reasons. Yeah. Multiple reasons. Guess what? I'm going to list them off. Number one, I came in on last week's episode, and I said that the game three loss

was pathetic. I was wrong. Game six, this was pathetic. So you made me wrong in the span of a week. That's one. Two, I do have a future on the Oklahoma City Thunder that I was banking on cashing in tonight. It was real money.

Guess what? I couldn't tell you the amount. Guess what? That's not going to happen. Three, I miss Love Island. tonight we 100% could have tapped into love island new bomb shows were coming in and i did not get to i heard make showed up who make the stallion we haven't seen it yet but and i did not and i did not get because the oklahoma city thunder whereas not locked in as possibly could be and all of their

bad habits came to the forefront once again and every single time that we say oh the thunder they've graduated they passed this test they've gotten the experience they all they have continuously put themselves in those same positions and done the same thing over and over and over again and I said I was like listen I think that the thunder are the better team and the Pacers are going to have show me they're going to have to win three games yeah they've won three they've showed you they have showed me and I this is on pace to be the worst hate watch in my life. Right now, right now, the 2008 Celtics beating Kobe. That is the worst hate watch of my life. As a nine-year-old watching Kobe lose, I cried myself to sleep

that night. It was terrible. If the Pacers win this series, it, that takes top spot. I'm so mad on all fronts because the Thunder had every opportunity to just play well and do simple things and they were not able to do it tonight. Yeah. I mean, listen, man, when it comes to how everyone approached this series it feels like the entirety of the NBA community

the NBA world was just straight up wrong you know like obviously we all up here picked the Oklahoma City Thunder to win this series me specifically I said yo I got okay C and 5

they just don't have any many answers you gave the patients way more grace than I did just like you they had to prove it to me they went ahead and proved it to me not only like once but twice after this game happened over here

and like you said they faltered to all of the bad habits like every single team they naturally have like pain points and weaknesses it's not like a youth thing or anything like that one of the weaknesses from one of the greatest teams all the time the warriors is like they just are prone to commit turn it overs okay see they're just prone to not get buckets it just it is what it is you know there's some things that from three specifically yeah exactly just some things terrible problem that hinder you with a team overall and I guess to pinpoint um the biggest talking point of the

night so far is obviously the best player on the entire series jay he this this game tonight he had his career hot season high in turnovers eight eight is insane for someone like say considering like he's someone who's never going to turn the ball over overly because he's not necessarily a high octane pass pass first type player at all and on top of that he's also not only is he not like daring passing wise he's one the best ball protection guards we've seen like a big part of his value and why he can get away with not being one of the the the mirror passers like a Luca or LeBron or whatever is because he protects the ball. He's an incredibly tight handle. He has simple reads that he gets to his spots and doesn't put the ball

in harm's way. So yeah, if that's going to flip, it's going to be a hard time. A lot to talk about here. One, I will say the idea of them losing game six when it's a close-out game, the Patriot's against the wall, they're a very good team and they're at home. Not shocking, right? It's not in and of itself surprising that this went to a game seven. After they stole game one, the Pacers. I will say it kind of is considering Tyra uses injury. I'll get there. I'll get there. get there. It's not surprising on the surface that the Pacers won game six and forced OKC to beat them at home. But to your point, Tyrese being injured, that blew it open. So we said, okay, so script would say Pacers win game home and say game six at home and make OKC win at home. That makes sense.

But if Tyrese injured, you feel less good about that. And then on top of that, is it fine that they lost game six? Yes. The fashion in which you lost it, this just cannot feel good. On one hand, we have seen this almost exact script happen. They lost the similar close-out game against the Minnesota Timberwolves by fucking 40, came out, turned around, beat the hell out of them for the rest of the series, right?

Actually, that wasn't a close-out game. Yeah, my bad. But they lost the game on the road to the Timberwolves where they got straight up dominated, came back, adjusted, beat the hell out of them. So we've seen that. And similarly against the Nuggets,

we saw a very similar script to this series when they lost game one on a buzzer beater and I think it's followed like exactly the same pattern. Basically, yeah. And then they also lost game six against the nuggets, if I remember correctly. So we've seen these things before. I'm saying this to say, I'm not panicking. I still, you feel good about OKC. Yeah, haters, he's staying

10 toes down. So say that off from before we get to slandering OKC, it makes sense they lost game six. I still feel fine about them winning game seven at home. They've only lost at home in the playoffs on buzzer beaters twice. So sure, that could happen again. They're not unbeatable, clearly. But I, that feels fine. But you cannot feel good about the nature in which this loss happened just because, like you said, so many of those bad habits were at their worst tonight. This offense was fucking atrocious. And I, yes, if somebody's just giving you win, loss, win loss, and like the order,

you're like, okay, fine. Makes sense, right? The Indiana Pacers scored 108 points today. In any other game, you feel good about that. Like, the Pacers are this team that you think about it's like, wow, they play so fast. They play very high outtained, right? They're scoring 115, 120, all that. for them to only score 108 and for the only player on their team to be obitop and scored 20 points

and he was listen he was eating in regular time he was getting buckets off in garbage side too right so it was such an all around offensive attack from everybody else and we so like at half time right where you start talking you say okay what number do you think it has to get to because they're down 22 a half time you say can you get it to 15 I said 15 you said 12 right and you start you start to get there but in the third that is yeah yeah but to start the half both teams both teams could not make a shot and we said it to each other like brein said it on the broadcast is like there was ever a time that that the thunder were going to make a run to get back into this game it's going to be coming out of half after you make adjustments after you you know

sit up in your chair you see that they're clearly not playing around tonight and they just couldn't do it and for them like to have such bad offense in terms of she was going one-on-one jay williams was going one-on-one it felt like anytime anybody other than shea was making and even she who had eight turnovers yeah but anytime the past wasn't from me to you it's going to be a turnover like lewdore had so many bad passes caruso had had some bad passes and you're just allowing t j mccano to get into the lane uh that's part of it too yeah mccano went went crazy Tyrese Halliborne, who's playing with a strain left calf, he was able to get into passing lanes.

Chet, who all series, yo. He did. Offensively. Disaster. Offensively. Let me drop some gems on your head just for two cents. Not gems. Doodoo clumps for two.

And this entire in six games so far, Chet has only shot. He's only hit two three pointers. Two singular three pointers, singular. Two three points in the entire series. And he's been shooting on top of that, like 37. percent from the field now obviously he's a big naturally he's the but he's also like he takes a lot of jump shots but still like 37% from any level or position on the court is disgusting

awful it's disgusting now he has been great defensively the past like three games the patients have had essentially no interior presence they've been killing him from three when they want so ched is defending well but the offense has been a fucking travesty the amount of just missed easy dunks that he's had is comical and also the amount of like his processing speed has been so bad on attacking when he's trying to do these face-ups that he gets an advantage but doesn't see it fast enough on a pass and it's just been bad offense but obviously you know offense overall is the story of this game the pace the thunder defense was fine for the most part the pacer shot really well and had some crazy magnet runs that they just went crazy even three in blue leads but

the thunder defense overall i think did a decent job outside of that the offense was just so bad and the the annoying part is we're saying the offense is bad as it the thunder were defending themselves the Pacers defended them in a very clear in like a clear vision of what they want to do to counter the Thunder offense and it's something that you don't

you normally don't want to do they double team at the nail from one pass away every single time anytime Shea or Jdub had isolation up top they would double team them from the nearest wing and just harsh doubles

on the nail like I said because they know that especially on the road in Indiana this Thunder team will not cannot, doesn't want to get up a high volume of threes so normally you don't want to help off as a nail one pass away because it's the easiest read in the world going to be a quick trigger

three. The Thunder refused to throw quick trigger threes and the Pacer said we're going to bet that happens again. You're not going to be able to get good drives on us and we're going to force you to take those threes and they were not comfortable. That is such a simple thing to get by this bad. Like that is so rudimentary to be just completely neutered by that simple nail defense. Like shout at Rick Harlow, that's a very smart thing to know this team doesn't want to get up high-volume threes. We're going to like play mind games and give them easy ones that we know they don't feel good taking, I think Mark Dagnol will probably find some way to recover from that. But that's embarrassing that you be such a big moment with such a simple, simple adjustment.

And like, like you said, and you said it while we were watching the game, it was like the hesitation from all of these guys, like that, that aspect of it and from start to finish, them mentally not being locked in. And you know, you know, like, that they were going to have to overcome some type of adversity this is their first time you're trying to close out a game six on the road to win a title obviously it's not going to be easy like i don't i never expected them to go in here or win this game by 30 right but when you see the opportunities that they're giving you to not be able to sit there and take it like how many times to lute door get the get the ball and do a pump faking and then three jab steps only to take another contested three like she's a bad rhythm all night

yeah they never had a chance we're just not going down yeah and shut up recall like i said it was a good adjustment to defend him that way because he understood their bad tendencies. And it's not the end the world. They can recover from that. We've seen them adjust to things of that nature over and over again. The interesting part to me is this is such a tale of two series. The games in Indiana and the games in OKC are so vastly different. Yeah. There's only been two outlier games, only two. Yeah. And even the ones that the other team snatched and to take game one and then was it game five? The one with OKC won in Indiana? Yeah, it was indie. It was game five. Game four, game four, that is.

Those games still felt like the other ones. They were just fuckery in the fourth quarter when Shea clutched up in game four and then game one when they had that meltdown in Halliburton game winner. But by and large, the games in Indiana, the games in OKC have been complete polar opposites. These two home court advantages are ridiculous. OKC cannot make threes in Indiana. These shooters are out of rhythm. It's loud in there. They're not comfortable.

They're hesitating like you said. Terrible. You get back to OKC and Aaron Wiggins, his clutch threes, Lou Dork, crazy magnet. And they look like OKC. And then Indiana, their defensive activity here to throw them off at home is insane. They feel this crowd. And I guess that's a reason to feel good about OKC because, you know, it is that tail of two series. They have home court advantage.

But I don't know, man. Game sevens. Game sevens are crazy. Yeah. It's so crazy how Stark we see like OKC's Achilles heel just like be bleeding this much. It felt like going back to what you said when it comes to how they decided to attack SGA. and just let him do his thing at the nail or whatever it felt like they just constantly baited SGA into thinking like oh yeah you got it but then last minute someone like

Bennett and Mathen or Aaron Neesmith or Nmhart is going to like stick a hand in there and really throw you off a game and we're just going to show bodies when it's like least expected and just like bodies are going to be shown so that and then also to seeing how again this is just a natural weakness for SGA like no one's able to set anyone up on a consistent basis for easy looks and if it is it's fucking rare you know yeah and a thousand percent they weren't ready for those the late shows on the

interior like you said they knew he wants to get his mid range jumpers and step back and they helped really late that threw him off his rhythm and it's just like the lack of ball handling around these guys that if they're not going to be able to set people up it's a problem and it's so annoying too because that was what happened the last pictures win and we talked about we praised

Rick Carlisle's defense and then they went back to OKC and they seemingly fixed that last game like they did a lot of smart stuff to not be so dependent on Shea Iso ball. Obviously, that was headlined by Jalen Williams having the gamer's career, so maybe that massed a lot. But I felt like they did a lot of stuff with Isaiah Hardinstein as a passing hub from the top of the key that, you know, it's just ways to get people cutting. It was moving off ball. All that disappeared this game. And maybe that's the Pacers. I again, I haven't had time to go back

and watch this game. Maybe they just did another off ball adjustment that I haven't quite noticed yet to really slow that down. Maybe they just weren't able to get in their rhythm for that to go and they default, they just like default to the ISO game that was slow. But, It just felt like all the progress they made back home in OKC is lost as soon as you step into Cambridge. Yeah. Yeah. I have a question for you guys.

What would y'all do to stop T.J. McConnell? Because clearly, because clearly T.J. McConnell is coming out here. Does he's, he found rhythm in game in game five. He found rhythm in this game. And for a team that we knew, we knew that Tyrese was, was, you know, limited and he was hurting. And honestly, outside of the first, like, two to three minutes moved pretty well. Yeah, he didn't look hurt really at all. Honestly, this is either his best or second best game of the finals.

Yeah, he had like, he, again, like, I think the first, the first possession, he made it, he made a drive and then he came up and he was like, went in a little bit. And then there was one possession early on. We tried to go by chat and, like, the burst wasn't necessarily there. Outside of that, I feel like he was able to do, you know, normal Tyree's Halliburton thing. Yeah. You know, get rebounds, push the pace, have out. Outland passes, all that stuff.

But the back court for Indiana, for Tyrese to play the way that he does. And then normally when Tyrese is not in the game, you can see Indiana's offense get a little bog down. Yeah. Not if TJ's on the floor because he's been able to get into the lane to create paint touches, to get shots right for himself. Like that's something where in game seven, I loki am worried because it's found like, it feels like TJ has found something that they can go back.

to, I'm not worried about that in terms of game seven. He has had great stretches, obviously, where he's kept the bench units afloat. Overall, the defense has been fine, like we said. So I'm really only worried about offense. But if I was to say I'm worried about T.J. McConnell, I said this during the game we're watching. Right now, that's happening because they're letting it happen. They're saying when McConnell's on the bench, you want to go more ice-heavy, be my guess. We're going to put a average defender on him and he's not to beat us one-on-one.

He has. He's been getting buckets. It's been ridiculous. But they're basically just like not helping off him and saying, you're going going to beat us as a score. And if T.J. McConnell's scoring daggers is what kills the best defense in the NBA, so fucking be it. They're living with that. And obviously, he's making a pain because one-on-one. I think if they really wanted to eliminate him, they would just put Jada or put Caruso

on him and say, strap him. We're putting a good defender on you. We're not letting it happen. Or they would, you know, play aggressive, switch, double, do the things they do against Tyrese and whatnot. I think that's a good, like, a philosophical question of if they should. Because obviously, it stings really bad when you see these runs of T. going crazy, but I think overall

in the net, I imagine those minutes don't have quite as high offensive rating since it's just TJ against the world. Yeah. We only remember the few minutes where he goes insane, but I'm sure there's other minutes where it kind of evens out. But the thing where it starts to sting is that T.J. McConnell constantly he's just an injection of life.

Oh, yeah, definitely. He's the biggest reason why he's the reason why the water never shuts off. He's doing all this shit, whether it be like getting into the pain or like getting crafty, nifty steals that you don't see coming he's like a nap you know he's just a fucking he's a thousand mosquitoes embodied into one person just don't see him coming out of nowhere and he's always just there for no reason and

someone expected to when he's consistent as well which is annoying you know like see how he's able to just consistent bend o ksie's defense and quickly like skate his way into the paint just two feet away or feet a foot away from the rim does he's genuinely a nuisance that's so annoying yeah yeah so sounds like mark day don't needs to respect them and defend him like he would any other great player exactly and like for for everything that you're saying if this was game four i'll be like okay it's fine right because you think that you have three other games this is one game and so you see plenty of times like when and like the way that coaches call time out where and it happened here after the stalemate where nobody can hit a shot the patient's got

one bucket and then mark died and all was like all right time out like we're just not going to let them go on a run they ended up going on a run whatever yeah but you you try to manage these things in the moment and especially knowing that you are are in a like one game sample size at this point yeah and so in in game seven if anybody is going to go off like i it's either going to be obviously like t j mccano or or uh or matherin and i'm sure i mean he even having like a fantastic game yeah i'm i'm saying more so like from the bench perspective oh okay guys Gotcha. And like, I'm, I'm very curious to see how OKC operates there if either one of those two guys, you know, get going. I think what's super important is how Indiana and OKC approach these second quarters because in this game specifically, we saw the game was pretty much neck and neck.

Yeah. Indiana did lead, but it wasn't by a wide margin. And we all felt like we were in for a good one. Until that second quarter happened, She was out of the game. And obviously when that happens, and it's like, oh, shit, like, how can you rely on any type of quality? offensive looks without having someone who is like a mysterious on offense and can know where everyone's at and put certain players in certain people they don't have that naturally just don't and i think seeing how indiana does and how they're able to just like make everyone dance and just keep the entire okay see defense guessing at all times while not having any answer offensively it's super key for me to watch in this game seven yes second quarter. Yeah, I mean, it's, it's so funny just how stark it is when they're in OKC in Indiana. I have a resolution. Remember when Shea got his MVP award, he gave everyone

rollies. Take them bitches back. Take the rollies back. And also, take his back too. His role is, he can keep this. He deserves it. Take his back too. No, eight turnovers is it's ridiculous. Yeah. Put their paycheck on the line. Let's see what's going to really have been. Yeah, it's really, it's like the OKC offense. Like, it's, this is any other, this was a series where we hadn't seen this before and this was like the first series okay see struggled. Let's say they snooze their way through three rounds and they got here

and this is the first time we're seeing these type of games panic meters would be everywhere. There'll be holy shit momentum was on the pacer side. Oh my god are they going outside? They're collapsing when they're up three to but because we've seen multiple playoffs series now of them being so starkly different on home and on the road and so up and down with these outlier games it's just like you just got to hope they don't do that

they never do at home for the most part besides those two fourth quarters where they really shit themselves and the team hit a game winner with that being Aaron Gordon and Tyre Saliburton which is always possible you can't rule that out

they do have the ability to shit themselves at home in the fourth quarter so the Pacers can win game seven so I'm not guaranteeing anything but if you feel good if they take care of business and play the way they do

90% of the time at home it's just so perplexing because when you have these games are on the road and you know these outliers are consistent but they are outliers because they're on the road it's hard to talk about

without sound like you're coping Yeah, that's fair. I will say it does feel like the things kind of evened out because even if you look at game, if you look at game four, afterwards you look at the box score and it's like, OKC, turn the ball over a ton. You go three for 16. How the hell did you win that game? Yeah. And then this game, same thing.

You have a lot of turnovers. You cannot hit threes. And it's like, oh, this is actually what it's supposed to look like when you're on the road and you can't do those two things that are massive. swing factors in the modern NBA is like if you turn the ball over and you can't hit threes you're you're most more often than not you are not going to win those playoff games yeah so this game like because of how it it played out i guess like with uh with their offense you can kind of understand it a little bit more but as as indiana every single three that went down and as you like started to realize okay yeah they're gonna win this game you just keep

thinking about game one and it's like yeah damn it you see the Thunder fans think about game one. If they, if Tyree Talburn's game winning shot doesn't go in, the series is over. And then Pacers fans say, if we don't choke, if Benedict Mathrin doesn't bet on the Pacer's money line or the Thunder Money line. And then if Shane doesn't go God mode for that fourth quarter, if it doesn't push off, then they win the series already. Like, like you said, it evens out. They both have one game. They're kicking themselves over. Yeah. And yeah, that's a good point that the threes and the turnovers are really the swing factors. And, you know, the common adage is role player shoe better at home. So not surprising that

okayc shoots so differently because it's a team full of role players offensively and like subpar shooters offensively not shocking that they have this crazy home boost and on the road and a team so tough like this fucking pacers crowd like i guess it's not shocking they were cold right that's to be the pastes are really good at exposing that that's fine it's just this is the game that you get the worst version of that possible the game before at game seven like it's like the worst case scenario of things that you know is understandable you can kind of predict but it still stings and you still have that back your head. Make you feel not great.

Watch this happen in game seven. Because even though that Indiana has not been amazing on the road offensively, and like you said, role players, she better at home, watch game seven be the Miles Turner back to ball game. Hell not. I'll be damned. All I'm saying, the last four games for Miles Turner, three of 11, three for 10, three for five, one for nine tonight.

He's so ass. The way that the Pacers have been able to just pull stuff out of nowhere. And there was a video online before the game started where the pages are warming up and Siaka throws his head back and his eyes start like rolling back. It's like him getting locked in by everyone's like, see, there's that devil magic.

The way that they're able to do it every single game, it would not shock me if we get to game seven and all of a sudden, Miles' turn is like, oh yeah, I remember how to be a pig and pop big. I remember how to knock down threes and he's the role player that ends up giving them 15, 60. Yeah, I don't know if they're going to win or not. He's been trashed for so long.

I'm not expecting. I would not be shocked. I would be shocked of anything at this point. Nothing would shock me about this Pacers team. The two biggest wins for the Indiana Pacers, this game, outside of obviously, like, coming back home and taking this game back to OKC, is that you survived the Miles Turner massacre. He was so bad on all fronts of the game. He had, like, legitimately, like, probably one good possession where I think he, like, prevented someone like Chet, getting back him down to the rim. whatever and then he blocked i forget who it was caruso yes that was like one very good

position but outside of that he was bad in every single aspect of the game imaginable he could even clap right bro like it was so bad with how with how the turnovers were the consistent missed funky shots like there were easy passes where someone would someone would be like cutting to the remedy who would just be like too prioritized or too prioritized like not looking like a bitch in front of getting bitch by someone like chitonger it's so bad all around So it's like massive win for patients fans for survival in that massacre. And then also, too, Tyrese Halliburton only played 23 minutes on a, what we was also like a 20, yeah, he only played 23 minutes. And that's great because that's because.

On a hoveled leg, yeah. Yeah, because that's probably what you would have wanted to like to pull him at. Mm-hmm. If you were, if you actually had a minute, a minute's restriction, they said that there wasn't going to be a minute restriction on him tonight. But obviously, if you are concerned about. a potential re-injury you you wouldn't want to play him 40 minutes going into a game seven and so now you have a couple days off going going into this last game and again seeing the way that he moved for the last 45 minutes of the game or the last 18 minutes I guess that he

played you feel decent about what Tyrese can can give you and how your offense is going to to function and I mean these guys man like they just they have not at any point rolled over quit they they do everything that they have to do to stay in these in these games and in these series and i mean this is the first time that they've trailed in the series all postseason right because they've started every post every series up too oh so for them to have that type of resiliency is ridiculous and i do think that okay c is going to win uh game seven we've come too far for me to to switch yeah but but but I finally do respect the Indiana Pacers.

They are a legitimate and respectable opponent for the Oklahoma City Thunder South to you guys. You guys have made it because, and as we do the cheer list later in the episode, you start to think like there is just something about this team where if you stack it up against some of the other either final losers or even potential winners, they can go toe to toe with some people. No, they are very, yeah. Yeah, so I guess we talked enough about OKC, but. all the perils of this game. And I think we all agree that we are going to pick them for game seven.

Shout out the Pacers. I think we feel comfortable with that. Not a guarantee, but we feel comfortable. At this point, I'm a question mark. I don't even know anymore. Yeah,

I just, we're at the last game of the season. I said at the beginning of the year, I thought, okay, see, was going to win the title. I'm not going to change it now. They have one game.

The whole thing was like, if I told you you had one game on your home floor to win the title, would you take it? It's like, yes. I'm going to pick the Thunder. Yeah. But the Pacers are,

obviously. very for real. Yeah, much respect to them. Yeah, one game, anything can happen, so nothing's a guarantee in the game seven, but I'm not super worried just because we, I guess probably just because the bias of seeing it already against the nuggets and going through that range of emotions of, does this team

have it in their biggest lights? I feel fine about their lock-in factor, about their no performing under pressure. It's all going to come down to, I think, who's a better basketball team, and I feel fine about them. But again, anything can happen. So what that being said, shout out the Pacers. I've been saying this, the whole playoff series, keep reiterating after they continue to come up

clutch. So much respect for them. So, this is a viable finals team. I understand everybody thought there'd be a pushover. We're so far past that. They're not. Even outside of them being better than a pushover, this is a championship quality team. Clearly, you don't go to game seven by coincidence. You don't make the finals by coincidence. You don't have a top five net rating in the NBA for 40 games and then beat the shit out of teams that better than you that everyone thought we'd better than you, I should say, by coincidence. Nothing about this team is fluky. Nothing about it is unsustainable. I think they'll probably be great again next year. I don't know if they'll be in the finals, but this is going to continue. This run is real. They figured it out. They are so worthy

where they are. And so like regardless of what happens, just like the ultimate respect them team. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Like the way that I'm about to talk about the spacers teams to my kids in like 30, 40 years from now, nightmares. It's fucking spooky. All the things people say about like real basketball is how you should be played. Like it's very 2014 spursish where you're like, you gotta tip your hat no matter what side you're on no matter who you're rooting for how you feel

even if you're a fucking Knicks fan who wants Tyre's Halliburton six feet under there's so there's nothing to not respect about them yeah early numbers for game seven

Thunder are obviously heavy favorites eight and a half point favorites for game seven yeah I say this every time every time you tell me a line I'm like I'm so bad at having a conception

of if that's a good line or not I have no the line tonight was Thunder minus five and a half and so Thunder were favorites tonight yeah i guess they're always favored yeah yeah it's favorite tyree's was a little hurt you didn't really true true so eight eight and a half which is kind of like it's a little bit less because

most of the time when they've been at home in these playoffs you've seen them at like nine and a half ten and a half even at 11 eight and a half is probably as close as you're going to get so again everybody everybody understands that on paper and given the resume the thunder are the better team and they have shown more, but there's just this factor that's looming where it's like once again, you've put yourself in this position and you have to pass yet another test.

And if you do, cool, you're going to get stamped as one of the, as one of, you know, having one of the greatest single seasons in NBA history. If not, very much believe so. This is a massive disappointment. Even as great as the patients have been

because of everything that the Thunder have put on paper, if you do not win, it's crazy. And then the pace is on the other side. You get your first high. and NBA history, which is awesome. You get off of that, off of that terrible list. And then Tyrese Halliburne for the summer, top five player, you know what it is. Like that's kind of the way that it's going to go.

Yeah, yeah. I won't feel. He's going to be headlining on like, on SummerSlam and WWD again. I don't, uh, if they lose the game, as of today, it being forced to a game seven, I don't feel like it's like we spent, I expect them to win in six, right? I don't feel like it's some horror that it went to a game seven because I feel like I just, it's more about the pastures being bed and everybody thought. But yeah, if they lose, even if it is like, let's say it's an amazing game seven and it's like

pure basketball, both teams playing amazing, the thunder aren't shedding the bed, the team is just going back and forth and Tyrus Albert hits another game winner. So that in itself won't be a like terrible loss and won't be embarrassing. But the simple, the simple truth is you're one of the most dominant teams of really all time in the regular season. alleged. Yeah, like, but it did not even allege. They are in every numerical sense.

In every numerical sense, you're one of the best regular season teams of all time. No matter what the outcome is, no matter how understandable it is, massive disappointment to not win the finals. Like teams like this of this level of dominance over an 82 game sample size and then three rounds sample size after that that are this dominant net rating wise, win wise, win margin wise, with an MVP, with the number one defense, all the very calculatable things that you'll cross NBA history and you see other teams that check those boxes. Those teams never don't win the finals.

Outside of 2016, they always win the finals. 2016 Warriors didn't, and actually the 2016 Spurs didn't. They're also on that tier of net rating. And those two teams happen to be existing in the same time of LeBron James and a 3-1 comeback. Outside of that crazy year of history, that's one of the most unpredictable junes we've seen, these type of teams always win the championship for the most part.

So if you don't, tough, you join a list of unfortunate names. This is crazy. And again, with three days before game seven. And this is, I think the first time that I had like 100% legitimate is like, wow, the Pacers really might win the title. And I still haven't been, like, I've allowed myself to think about that. They are so weird in everything that they do that I still don't know how to process this Indiana Pacers team being an NBA champion, like an actual titles team.

That's what's great about it. Yeah, I agree. They're literally going to change the way that we. talk about basketball for a little bit. Are they going to salt tanky? Loki. They will be a North Star for how to not tank and get to a championship. No, to be fair, I don't know if you can really replicate scamming the Kings at Tyrese

Halliburton, but. Yeah, you can just find the dummies in the league. That's all. They always exist. Both teams have kind of done that. Like the Thunder, you can say a scam, but like the, the clipper is also like in that moment. They had to.

Yeah. You got to do what you got to do. But it's like, you can stay where you're at. And then if you are able to find a young star somewhere else and say, all right, we, we know, we know that, like, we trust you and we see some stuff. There's other avenues outside of just, yeah, let's lose for three years. Yeah. Let's lose for four years. You know, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not rewriting the way basketball works to just have a good, well-rounded team.

That's not new. But in the age of the second apron, you know, the three, three-star model isn't, like, isn't dead for no reason. it's really because of the second apron. Everyone talks about it. Like these days you've got to have depth. The three stars doesn't work anymore. These teams are too good. Yes, probably part of that is true.

But part of it is it's just you can't have three stars plus great bench anymore because the second apron. So I think they probably show that they, them picking this route wasn't because of second apron, but they really benefit at the right time. And that's probably the reason you'll see more teams start to replicate this if that is the path, just because it's increasingly more viable because it's increasingly less viable to have a top-loaded roster. Yeah.

I agree, like most of the times when it comes to how we see teams try to build contending organizations, it's either, it's two easy ways to cop out. Okay, like, let's just be really asked for a couple of years and then pick really high in the lottery or at least try to. Or it's like, okay, let's try to go ahead and throw any off any top free agent a bag. But obviously, we all know that's like so, that's like one of the most inconsistent ways to build your organization for so many. for a slew of reasons and you're right i agree both you guys these two teams are the posted boy and they should like exemplify to every single team that's especially small market teams in the NBA how to genuinely sit down in builds without sledding yourself and embarrassing self being one of the worst teams of league for and shaking your ass for that number one overall pick

while also like not flooding embarrassing i don't be just open the club yeah exactly exactly But don't be the Utah Jazz. Don't be the Washington Wizards. I said this last time in the last episode. Obviously, I want OKC to win. You know where my biases lie. If those weren't my biases, I would be so happy to see the Pacers win. Yeah.

This is such a cool team. Obviously, I'll be very sad if the Thunder lose. Once I'm over that, I will be so happy for the Pacers. Like, it is such a cool story that, like, in any other year, I would be over the moon rooting for this team. You're not going to be able to get over it. They're going to let you know all summer. Yeah. It's just going to be a constant wave of just like, ha, ha,

But once I stop giving a fuck And I meet my mentions I will enjoy this name Nerfed You can't do nobody Dude the last episode The top comment With like 800 likes

Is we're gonna dunk on Isaac When the Thunder lose Every There was it was 2-1 when they said that It was itching Anytime they see an opening So But again I still feel fine

I need you to take The biggest lap ever And respond to that comment I don't feel like I guess It's like hardly Can you do that in the game seven I didn't it's hardly It's hardly a victory lap

To say the Thunder are gonna win Like they're just The fucking best roster in the NBA So I don't feel like it's some Notre Dame shit to say the best team is going to win But a lot of people thought they were going to be the best team So with how they're coming after your neck

As if like you're putting your life on the line for this team The thing I'm on the team Yeah But yeah The Pacers outside of biases Outside of you hating them because you're a Knicks fan Amazing story Amazing story that

You know like you said early Even they lose Will be fantastic look back on forever Yeah I told you on I guess now after game 7 The day after June 23rd Hey man this Pacers team was an all-time I'm running, oh, my God, this was so amazing.

I just can't do it for this season. But the moment the offseason hits and we start going to draft stuff, while I look back on it, it's going to be with, you know, rose-tinting glasses and stuff like that. It would be fine. All right, man. So we'll see what happens to game seven. With that being said, let's get on to the second part of this episode.

Let's talk about the thing you see in the title. We are going to put the last 20 NBA finals teams into a tier list. So that's 10 years of finals from 2016 to 2025, both teams, winner and loser. And we're doing this because, you know, we don't know the outcome of game seven yet so we don't know who wins between the thunder and the pacers but i think we have a pretty good idea of how good both these teams are and i think it's fun to kind of reflect these two teams relative to modern NBA history

which i feel like 2016 is a good starting point you know 703 win warriors ushering in the new era basketball yeah lebron james three one comeback to now that that's the modern NBA i think you can no give or take a couple years whatever but let's stack up these two teams against the rest of them we're going to start in 2016 go year normally we kind of do random order this time we're going to start in 16 and go year by year until we get to 2025 at the end put every team this tier list and really really really tried to like this is going to be it's hard because we're not going to who wins yeah but really try to think about both these two teams this year and compare them to others and I guess kind of talk through both

outcomes depending on who we think would win either way all right makes sense so first off let's start of 2016 Golden State Warriors 73 win team lost in the finals where do they belong I'm going to eight year I think S tier as we talk about it should only be for teams who won the title and like obviously greatest it's the greatest regular season that we've ever seen they had all the records that was step's you know best offensive season you just you had a three one lead in the finals with home court advantage and lost and like it's it's insane but do you okay so obviously you know like the draymond green of it all and all that like how do we want to try to i guess just a general point this list are we going to tire

ourselves so what happened in that way and like really choose the outcomes like deciding factors or we're going to try to like step back and be like this team you know if you simmed it a thousand times how good are they like how do you want to appreciate it for me personally i'd like to look at the team one for one what it is of course like we're going to be naturally a little bit influence about the income or the outcome but i will say for me personally this team 73 and nine how stacked this stack this roster was before the katy era in terms of like the strength in numbers warriors and how deep deep their bench their bench was they are they still belong in the s-tier conversation for me they're one of the best teams that the NBA has to

yeah exactly like 10 years span and I feel like lost doesn't mean like they just immediately to get deduced to a tier yeah and there's also one more team one here that I that I know you'll want to put s tier I think so if we want to decide only winners can go tier that's a fine rule let's just be real clear about that do we are we sure we want to do that I don't think we can do that I don't want to put losers I think I just just, I do think that that's fair because while, while we can have the conversation of if we simmed it a thousand times, who would win, I do think that, like, we are in this universe. And so, like, judging, judging people based on what they, what they did and what they were

accomplished. And also, the longer we move away from 2016, the more and more, I'm like, okay, obviously, Draymond wasn't there for game five. You still had two more opportunities and a game seven on your home floor to close it out. And so, like, yes, you should get it done. You were the best team of all time you had your opportunities. And you also, you also, you know, failed in those, in those moments as well. So, yes, you can, you can blame it on Draymond getting, getting suspended. I mean, he was there, he was there for game six.

He was there for game seven, gave you a legendary performance. Steph didn't show up in game seven. Clay didn't show up. but I think you need to divorce yourself from like this specific series and I'm just thinking about like the genuine quality of this team and how they stack so stack up against like the entirety of this list not just like the Cleveland Cavaliers and what happened in that series I understand I really just do think that S tier should be reserved for title teams yeah I don't think it's terrible rule that that's for this tier list I guess that that that does make sense

as like as a as a requirement if you wanted like if you wanted to decide that there's other title teams that just aren't as good as as tier teams that's cool but i do think that if you want to get into that tier you should have to win the title i just think with that with that vision like we quickly fall over our fall over ourselves okay you know i'll just bury i won't bury the lead so let's say that let's say you're right and we'll do that that you're not guaranteed s tier if you want but you have to have s tier to get to win to be s tier that's fine this is obviously the best team of a tier this is a top three defense in the nf in the NBA is NFL what the fuck yeah top three offense in NBA, one of the greatest night ratings of all time, best record of all time in the regular

season, obviously the best team in A tier. When we get to 2019, that would be an interesting conversation because they also lost. So that's what they want to do. Exactly. So Cabs, 2016, obviously this team isn't as good as them on paper, but they beat them. They obviously have to be a tier as well then, right? Yes. Yeah, they dominated the Eastern Conference thing. What the Eastern Conference asked consecutively, that was the heavy LeBron year. I think naturally they just belong in S tier. Really quality teams. Oh, you said S tier. I was thinking eight tier as well. I think there's some teams on here that will get to that are okay okay i think we're doing there's there's a couple teams on here that you think it argument as being a couple of the best teams of

all time i don't think the calves are one of the best teams of all time i think they had one the best series of all time with the defining moment of all time but they were never basically they weren't a good enough defense and i'll pull up you know what i i can agree with you because there are so many times where i'm just talking about like specific roster wise Kevin love is holding them the fuck back and they have to rely on a i don't know how old he was he was at that time a 35-year-old RJ, Richard Jefferson. And they had to find ways to supplement Kevin Love at his offensive and defensiveal so many times. So I'm okay with, like, looking at this team and being like, yeah, you guys weren't S-T.

You're not one of the greatest. You are one of the better teams of all time, one of a championship, obviously. You had one of the best moments of all time. I don't think they're, I can agree with you on that. Yeah, they're 10th in defensive rating for the regular season. They know they had a lock-in that they raised their level of defensive acumen to in the playoffs. So that is an element. and they do have the best player of all time at his peak.

So that is obviously a strong consideration that the best year of Kyrie. It is a well-runned team. But I think we'll get the teams on here that are like, okay, if we're going across all of the NBA history, we can literally say you might be number one or it might be number five, whatever.

There's across the NBA history. There's 15 teams better than this. Okay. I'm okay with putting them in eight tiers as well. Yeah, it's a good place to start. 2017. So we have a whole Kaz versus Warriors saga to get through. The interesting part is the 2017 calves are better.

than the 2016, but they did not win so they can't go S-tier. So I think... They're again A. I think we can... No, it's funny. I think we can order them within these tiers.

I think the 17 calves are better than 16, even though they didn't win. So that feels like it doesn't make sense, but they're the better team. They got the better version of Kyriek because in 2016, he was coming off that injury. He had a good playoff run,

but the regular season performance wasn't quite as good. 17, he was a goddamn God. That was by far his best season with the calves. They had even more better depth because they were getting veterans over time. LeBron didn't lose a step. They were fantastic.

Their offense was ridiculous in 2017. They just ran into the greatest team of all time. And that's the fault of nobody, not even their own. And there we go. STO, we got the Golden State Warriors. This is, for my bet, the best team of all time. You can put them up against the 1996. Bulls, maybe the, what was the best showtime team, 87?

That's one. Whatever, 87 or 85, 84, whatever the best Celtics was. I can't remember. Put them up against any of them. 01, Lakers. I think you can safely, not safely, but you can reasonably say 20, 2017 is the best team of all time this yeah this is stacked it just doesn't make any sense yeah it's it's honestly two at the lowest at the lowest at the lowest okay at the lowest whoever you want

to put in the bracket that's fine whatever your error is they're gonna play the 2017 warriors at at the end of the bracket they're gonna play them in the championship game so all of them you guys are fighting for the chance to play them and then obviously 2018 warriors same things team is just as good they lost a couple debt pieces over time but you know they waltz their way to the finals again obviously S-tier. Now we're finally getting this interesting part. What are we're going to do with 2018 Cavs? I'm going D.

I think the 2018 Cavs are... I don't say F. The only reason... There's a massive difference between them and the other team that we're going to put in F-tier in terms of like the worst... You're right, you're right. If you have the Bron James, you can't be F

because we have teams on here that don't have the Bron James and are equally as mid. So, okay, D-tier. This team is so interesting just because it was such a weird year, right? They rebuilt it. team on the fly at the deadline there was zero chemistry baked in zero expectation built in because

they're going against the warriors nobody thought they had a chance it was a bloodbath it was a sweep game one they almost won off of lebron's greatest playoff game of all time that they lost yeah it's the gap between them and the warriors was so unbelievably massive that maybe maybe you could argue a little bit better than this because if they weren't facing that warriors team if they were facing who came out of the west another year the 2023 nuggets maybe be a competitive series Maybe we look back and say this team is reasonable finals team, but I don't know, man. We saw that get beat so bad. It's hard.

Hell not. I remember when they made that midseason trade and every single cast fan was so happy. No one's ever been happier than Cass fan in that year. For Jordan Clarkson. Jordan Clarkson and Rodney Hood on your roster. Those two, Larry Nance, Jr., they were so happy in everyone. All the talking heads are like, yeah, man, like this is the team to be, what's they were, I guess, in the Eastern Conference. They really weren't.

It should have been Toronto and then LeBronto happened again. Yeah, yeah. That happened. You have the seven-game series against Indiana where LeBron hits. I know he hit one game winner. I'm not sure if he hit two. But like that whole playoff run is the spawn of what some people say is like the best, you know, Braun year, which is really the best Brown playoff run.

Like that's what you will argue about, not the best season. But yeah, 2018, it's a cool year to look back on. but the actual team ass Yeah actual team And I think They're a good

They're a good Team for this tier list Because it shows Like where you rank a team That is not good But it has one Amazing player And gets their way

To the finals We might see similar teams On here That are like top heavy And made it there Because somebody drug them But they were not good You know overall

The team is nothing That should be there It was just Herculean effort That got them there That's the pinnical of D tier And it's crazy I really wonder What would have happened

Had LeBron you know Not broken his hand In that final It's crazy man showed up after the sweep in a cast like man get out of here that was that was hilarious no comment 2019 Raptors here this is another difficult one to rank I like this is one of my favorite teams of all time man

you love this team love it everybody should they get overlooked because they're Canada but like this is one of the deepest teams of all time they have multiple elite defensive bigs a great point guard a slew of wings that can get you buckets and play two way Danny Green, Elite Defender, Pascal Seacombe, Elite Defender, OGAOB, elite defender, wasn't there for the finals. But, you know, up and down the roster,

their bench could be a starting lineup for a mid-tier playoff team. Fred Van Vleet, Norman Powell was there. Off the bench. Seacom, off the bench. They had Sirs, they had Marcus Saul, who had a great year for them. And then obviously, the Kauai Laird of it all, captured lightning in a bottle,

one of the better playoff runs of all time. Doink, doink, doink, to beat the 76ers, destroyed, wasn't the land of magic in the first round, decimated them it was, yeah, that's where he's really stat-padded, he beat the fuck out of the magic, killed him. That really did, that was really like the start of it because then he got hurt halfway through the playoff run,

but his numbers against the magic were outlandish, and obviously they won it all. There is the injury element of it all, but they did win against the Warriors team. Is there an argument for S-tier? When you stack up this roster against every other team or every team in S-tier,

is just the Warriors. I think there can be an argument because in my mind, this might be the deepest team playoff finals winner that we've seen over the last 10 years. I think that's very fair to 10 or whatever the number is,

they are the deepest. And when it comes to quality and peak of star player, Kawhi Leonard, obviously, I don't know if this is the best version of Quile Leonard, but regards it's one of. You can look every single player on this, on the KD and LeBron specifically

and Steph Curry and the I's. He's just that level. And then Kyle Lowry as well, I hate to use him in this argument. But again, Fantastic's co-star, who is consistent timely shots, they might be S-tier quality. And you know what, Pascal Seaccom elevated in the playoffs to be the third best player in a very similar way to Kauai elevated in 2014. That's kind of why you view that Spurs team as an all-time team because even though he wasn't that for the whole regular season, Kauai became like another star level player when it mattered most. He kind of got that for Seacom too. So that's another element of it

That makes their depth that much better The Star Power that much better Do we want S tier for this list Because it's a final team list Do we want to reserve S tier for a team You could argue some of the greatest of all time Or do you want to be a little more lenient Because I think this team is probably a tier above

Actually don't I think if If we're going in this specific pool Yes I do think that the Raptors are S2 In this specific one Because the only one And we have this conversation all the time.

But the only other ones that, like the, or the other team that you would put them up against is like the $21, the $23 nuggets and the 24 Celtics. There's one team on here, I think for sure is better. And that's, that's really it. Other than that, it's debates. So I'm fine going S tier, personally. 2016 Warriors being an A tier makes it hard because I'm like, is this team a tier above a 73 win team? I don't know. But they did have, I'll pull it up.

I think they had the number one. No, they were number two defense. Number two defense. That was the first year the bucks were an insane defense, if I remember correctly. I think there were a top five, at least in the regular season. Oh, you're right. Top of number five. They're number five in defense and number five in offense.

Yeah, so well-rounded in the, yeah, okay, so five. But also, like, Kauai, I think Kauai didn't, he missed a certain chunk of time, I believe. And they were on a run. If everyone was raving about how this team is so stacked, even without Kauai Leonard. Only five point in that rating. Damn. I don't care. I think I do think that the depth is great.

And then like you said, the elevation of Siaco and the dad's strength of Van Vleet that he got in that run also is something that you do have to look at is if they're playing at that level, they are one of the best teams on here. They have answers for everything you could possibly throw with them to offensively and of course defensively. Like, Marcosol, of course, he was towards the latter half of his career. But still, as a room protecting, his smarts overall, he was fantastic. Kawhi, OG, who was in the final score. I believe I just said earlier, Pascal Seacom, Danny. Like, the depth is so incredible. And when it comes to looking at this team, and we also, one of the most popular returns that we see nowadays, like, oh, who's going to get hunted on?

Who are you going to hunt on this 2019? Larry, I guess. Kyle Lowry, that's the guy? Will this team beat the 2017, Keves? would you have picked them to beat the calves The 2017 Caz is tough That's tough right That makes you think they're A tier

So this is two different questions Because in the moment In the moment I know I would have picked The LeBron team Looking back Looking back They beat them I don't know

I don't think I think so My gut says A tier My gut says 2016 and 2017 Are similar caliber teams And 17 18 Warriors Are like so head and shoulders that my gut says they're just like the best team in A tier. Because I feel, but I'm not, you guys decide right now, we'll keep it moving.

Yeah, this is tough. This is tough. Because I was genuinely more so leaning that way because I view the warriors in just like an all time, all time context. And obviously, I don't want to put the Raptors in that same conversation. But considering the window that we have here, which is 10 years, they're in the conversation. I'm going next to you for them. Okay, S-tier it is.

But I'm not, I'm not, like, tied down to me. I could very much swing him to A later. Well, decide now. Swing, swing your way now. I'll decide later. Put him in S-tier for now. We're not going back to that. They're just taking S-tier.

No. 2019 Warriors, we'll keep pushing. Obviously, they didn't win if you want to say you had to win to S-tier, and I guess the top of A-tier. But they are, like, they're definitely depleted a little bit. So you can say they're worse in 18 and 17, but they only didn't win because of injuries. Do you want to give them the caveat,

or do you want to say, if you're not a winner, or you're not S-tier. I mean, in my book, no. If you didn't win, then I don't think you can be in an S-tier.

I think 2019 versus 2016, because of, because you have Kevin Durant on 2019, it is an interesting conversation of like, who do you think is better?

I don't think it is. I think 2019 is clearly better. They would have three-p-a if he didn't get hurt, you know? Yeah, it's the easy confirmation to me.

I'm just putting them in S-tier. Again, this roster stacks up. Like you said earlier, like they were depleted legitimately off of certain death pieces, but still again, I think we can all agree they're winning that, that finals matchup in 2019, if they're healthy. If it's basically, do you want to be principal or not, because it feels silly to not put them S tier, because they have those three stars and we know it's injury caveat. Yeah. But if you want to be principal, I don't know. They're S tier.

What are we talking about right now? Do we give them the only team on here that lost because of injury in that way, I think? so do you want to give them the only exemption because no other team on here lost because Kevin Durant caliber player got hurt midway through yeah and Clay Thompson as well yeah okay they're fucking that's dude yeah Clay Thompson

was out as well that same series so 2020 Miami Heat the next game this is when Jimmy Butler in the bubble in Bam out of Bio Tyler here had a great series I think because we have another version coming of the same team that's F tier I think they can be D tier the 2020 Miami Heat

oh the 20 okay got to you I'll give them D tier because in the bubble everybody's attributes are plus five yeah so like they're they're a little bit better and you do have a better version of jimmy butler in 20 yes than you do in 23 this version jim butler legitimately had juice in his leg still great score great pass it was putting up crazy numbers walking triple double the most heart anybody's ever seen bam out of bio was amazing bam out of bio had a real good playoff run too goron drogic was giving you buckets Tyler hero had a great early playoff run i don't think he did anything in the finals he's a bit of a target he's not

He snarled. He snarled. I think it was like the second round or something. Oh, yeah, you're right. But he was on a run there. I respect that team. But not enough to put him higher than D. That's fair. That's fun.

We all on board. And I think we can say pretty safely not spend too much time on 2020 Lakers or A tier, right? Yeah. Same exact conversations for 2017 and 16. Where do you want to put them in? I low-key think they're better in the Cavs teams, but you can convince me otherwise. I would have maybe. I would.

Specifically because we got bubble AD. that did happen. Yeah, he's miles better than whoever than Carrey Irving. Yeah. It's just,

that defense genuinely moves me. So I think you can, if you want to say it's fake, obviously there is some elements that make a different. Sure, go by all means AD never shot that ever again. He shot like that in these playoffs.

And we see plenty of series that have hot shooting you never see again for different reasons and we still respect it. I'm going to consider that version of AD that's, I think, better than Carrie by a wide, wide margin.

That's low key in the finals. That's a lot of. of wides. It's fair. Anthony Davis was debatably better than LeBron James than 2020 playoffs. That's a lot of

wides from Kyrie Irving. It's a lot of wides. He was in LeBron conversations, not Kyrie conversations. Yeah. I don't think Kyrie's ever been in top 10

player conversations either. Anthony Davis was the second best player in the world for the 2020 playoffs. They had number one and two. He did happen. He did happen. Yeah.

Okay. It's clear eight tier. 2021 bucks. This feels to me like the nice, nice way to christen in b tier yeah i think they're b tier easy um first title team in b tier yeah uh do we underrate them yes right like have we have we gone gone so by and yes we always

talk about how like 21 is the forgotten year should we put a little bit more respect on them i think we have to start filling out these tiers at some point at some point we had to i was gonna put the 21 sons in in b tier nah i think they're c tier for sure they're a firm c tier that's a It's a great team, though. It's a great team. Okay, but these are all finals teams. But like, if you sit down and look at all these teams, you're, by your metric too, they both firmly belong and see because they lost to the 22 100 bucks.

And you're just not going to look, sit here and tell me in my eyes, like, they're better than the 2016 Warriors, the Lakers and both of those cadets. You don't believe that. No, I respect them fully. No, I was, I was never going to put them in. He used them a M. No, I respect them fully. I think, obviously, they got to the finals with a lot of injuries.

He was in front of you. But that is, you know, the competition element of it wasn't the strong. strongest. When they got to a healthy, competent team, they blew a 2-1 lead or 2-0 lead and got decimated by Janice and de Kumpo. I think I respect a million percent, the Chris Paul, Devin Booker duo. It was fantastic. Their depth was crazy. McHale Bridges, D.P.O.I. level player. DeAndre Aidan was still good and hungry before he got paid. F. That's why they're not D or F or anything like a lot of the losers are going to be. They, they, besides the LeBron teams and the injury riddled Warriors years,

where those are, like, two of the best players of all time. Besides those teams, they'll probably be the highest loser. Yeah. A high. Okay, yeah. A lot of the other losers won't be hired in C tier, I don't think. Okay. We'll see. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think I am.

Besides this year, besides 2025, because we don't know who won yet. Okay. And B tier, do we, you ask a question, do we underrate the bucks? Yes. Yes. The world, I think, is kind of, because they immediately fell apart, body-wise, and we didn't get to see them really defend their throne. Everybody kind of like, one-year championships in general get

disrespected, I think, when you don't have an extended run because the NBA is a league that's kind of defined by dynasties for the most part. One-year champions always get disrespected, I think. And then especially defensive slanted one-year champions, NBA fans love offense, this team won with defense. They definitely get disrespected. Yeah, I agree. We're still every single time, a new NBA team has won a championship,

we're like, oh, like, is this time for the dynasty? You know, we open those conversations with the Denver Nuggets when they won. Same thing with the 2024 Boston Celtics. And as time goes on, we just really start to diamond tests as fans in my mind. How legitimate and how, like, deep or great of a team it was. So I agree with you for sure. Okay. Okay.

Yeah, they are underrated. And 22 was, yeah, 22 was so cool before the Grant Williams game. like they were able to to give me one more day yeah like they they could have i i had picked them to go back to back and i do think that like they would have yonis was playing at a crazy crazy level and i think in 22 especially for that run like you really really saw oh no this is like the best player in the world yeah and that's that's another reason why yonis is definitely the bucks definitely b tier maybe i mean i should say the top of b tier i think because that version of yonis one of the best two-way players of all time.

That was one of the... Dude, he had 51 points in a finals game to close out. And a defining legendary career photo that's going to be on the front of your highlight reel block and dunk in the game winner. Just every way you want to pinpoint to things that make him special

as a two-way player, we're all in this series. It is such a good way to personify who he is as a player. Yeah, I agree. 22 Warriors, a team that maybe also gets suspected a little bit too much.

I think someone up here sitting on the couch between us commonly says are the worst championship team of the last 10 years, which might be true. But I think besides you, who's a hater, a lot of people point to this team and say they won without a second option. It's really impressive for Steph Curry, but it's not, you know, stacking up against everybody else. Not the best team of all time. How do we gauge that? For me, I think looking at the depth of the team and how reliance they were on guys that you shouldn't really be reliant on for a deep postseason run, which is like, okay, like, shout to Andrew Wiggins,

fantastic player specifically for that year. He, he did his thing. He made, I think that was the same year. He also, like, made the All-Star team. Yes. Shout to Andrew Wiggins, Jordan Poole also. Shout to K-pop fans. Yeah, Jordan Poole also had a great year.

But in the finals, specifically, he didn't really do much. And he was really like a pain point for the Warriors at times. So for me personally, I don't think this lineup went through 10,000, or eight or whatever it is, stands a chance against the rest of these teams. I genuinely think it's one of the weaker teams from head to toe. So for me, I would have them at sea.

What do you think their regular season offensive rating was for the season? In 2020. The rank. I think they're seconded defense. Yeah. The defense is insane. Like 12th in offense. Yeah.

There's 16th in offense. Exactly. Yeah. 16th in offense? I mean, that 21 bucks team, where are they in offense? I think like 12th, me check. Yeah, because like they also weren't how. think that they're kind of in that in that caliber no they're a fifth what am i talking about they

had a great offense it was a little fugasy because they every year they fell off in the playoffs a little bit but they had the five out spacing yannis attacked the rim the offensive it was be brickler never every time every time we talk about the bucks i always think about them and i'm like oh they had they had like the 18th best off this is a weird year this actually in this season they were ninth in defense fifth in offense you're thinking of early in the runs whenever they lost in the bubble in like 2019 in 2019 they were first in offense and actually fourth in defense they fucking choked so hard in the playoffs

it didn't feel like the wall originated around that time too the Toronto Raptors beat the shit of them and then in 2020 yeah 2019 and 2020 they're a little bit weaker on offense at some points but 21 they were stronger offensively than defensively for the regular season so I would agree with you that yes

they won the title and they probably should be in C tier but you also get a like fully formed Steph Curry where at right true where you have the best you know basketball ball player, the IQ, the strength, the team defense, the ability to go get a bucket in certain ways that he wasn't, that he didn't have before. Like, I think that that version of stuff should be enough to elevate them to be tier. Oh, they definitely be tier to me. I wasn't, I wasn't considering C tier. Um, yeah, you know, they looked different. They won with defense. They had

great, great role players. Otto Porter gave them a fantastic year. The only year he said healthy, He sacrificed all the blood magic to give him that one run. Andrew Wiggins, as much as he was important as a second option. Consistent mid-range bucket score in that run, fantastic defender, brought the defense together. Draymond Green Masterclass that season. You know, just a very strong defense and then potentially the best offensive player of all time and potentially the best offensive year outside 2016. So that feels perfectly fine to go beat here.

I just don't know if this team would able to, like, do you think they're really better than the 2021 suns? Yes. Yes. Why so? Steph Curry, Draymond Green. But even the Draymond piece about it, think about that run because that was one of the first years where, or at least in that I can remember. But like, legitimately, he's doing the podcast and like that was like, and that was like an actual

story after every game where like they would go and lose to the, to the Grizzlies in game one or game two or something like that. And Jemont would be podcasting that night or they would lose. They were play a finals game and he, at least in the finals, he was not there offensively. And he openly talked about like all the struggles. So when you talk about Jordan Poole, who was there a massive, massive offensive piece for them throughout the year and then he falls off in the finals and he was unplayable in spots. Dremont who said that he was rattled wasn't really like hitting the side of backboard on threes and stuff. Then you really see as long as he got 17 points from Andrew Wiggins, Seth Curry was going to do.

everything like they were playing wants to scano anderson on this team for real so like that version of step is the reason why like you have that great of a player the sons don't have that yeah yeah they got a lot out of their egg you look at this team and you see limited talent and you think blah but they got a lot out of that talent like you don't have a number two defensive rating with those talent with those players playing at the level you'd expect they all played above their heads they all played as a team like they did a lot of things that we praise other teams for but we overlook it because I think implicitly we think about better versions of this team

and we like assume this is like such a diet version which it is because the better version that's not diet is the best team ever been fucking assembled in the history of the sport so that is all true but I think that still gets into a pretty high baseline level GP2 still eating off this chip GP2 like C-on Looney has some juice

Yeah Okay 22 Celtics seat here Yes but I think that they are better than the 21 sons I do not think I think that But I don't think that's crazy 2020 Celtics That's the year Mark Williams

That's Marcus Mart won DPOI And Mark Williams is actually a better defender They had that crazy defensive duo Yeah Robert Williams Robert Williams Yeah Robert Williams Yeah Robert Williams time lord You wish

I do not wish I was thinking about Robert Williams He was an insane defender The combination of him and out Horford together With the fundamental big defender And the balls to the walls The wall's ridiculous vertical shot blocker Then offensively

The floor is facing big and Lop Threat and those two beautiful combination I think they got a decent market smart shooting season that year if I remember

correctly and that was really one of the first year Jason Tatum was like oh yeah this is one of the guys yeah that

I agree he was stamped as a I don't know I don't know how to rank him he was top 10 but I would

comfortably say he was friendly top 10 yeah he was and he was making a leap offensively I just is that the year

he average 30 no that might have that might have been the year prior um maybe it was 22 or maybe it was the year after actually i think that was the year before they got drew holiday in them which 24 yeah he had one year where let's see he was actually scoring a lot

he was getting into the basket getting to the free throw line a lot was 23 was the average 30 years okay but he was first team only NBA in this season he was clearly a top 10 player in the world yeah this team was like also on a ridiculous pace because they started off just like eh right they were average oh that was a turnaround season they had the midseason turnaround where all of a sudden and they have the best defense of like a long, long time. E-May is coaching like crazy. And so I think that for the second half of that year, I think they are better than the suns.

Yeah, I forgot about that. It was very Pacer-esque where they just completely flipped the switch and became for the second half of the year. Let me see what it was. I'll look at their net rating post-January 1st. Pretty sure it was outlandish. Yeah, and I think that was the marker, I think. Okay.

But yeah, this team defensively, because even going into this series, obviously like I was rooting for stuff and I was like I really hope that the Warriors get this every all the models like the Celtics they were the favorite because you looked at it and it was this is the better team

they have the best defense in the NBA the other team just has stuff curry and that's really what like what propelled it and that's the continuous swing factor then I'm fine with that but they were like that though yeah shout out defense man 2023 Nuggets this is an interesting one because like you said this is one when they won

it was like wow they're set up to win for a long time we're expecting this run to continue. They have the perfect starting five to compliment Nicole Yokic, not star power, just four perfectly fitting role players around potentially the best offensive peak of all time up there, top five, whatever number you want to describe is the top tier of all time players, LeBron, Jordan, Curry, Magic, Burr, whatever it is, that's your go-off players. Yokish is firmly in there, and this is firmly one of the most impressive single-season

playoff runs for one individual player, and their defense was, I think, 10th of this year they had a very respectable defense especially in the playoffs yeah starting five amazing they still had great depth again don't have the star power some of these other teams but in a win with a perfectly fitting castor role players kind of similar to patients this year kind of similar to raptors that year they're kind of in that mold but their star player is better than those star players by a wide margin and this this was this was um bids MVP right yes okay yeah the only only year he didn't win it in this little run is that he's one of the finals i'm not going to lie i think i'm similar a tier right now between a and b tier i don't i don't it's a or b for sure i think it's b i i see

them and i just don't know how you can put them a tier above the the bucks i i see i see especially for like this early part of their career obviously like i think yokech has gotten to a different place but when you look at at yokch's run for the first half of the decade and yonis's everything is so similar and it lines up that i think that both of them have their strength and so the reason they're higher is their playoff offense was significantly better and less predictable just because the nature of yokech is an offensive player and bucks in the yonis i think and drew holiday for that matter they had a lot of downs similar to the thunder where like that rating overall the thunder had the third best offensive rating this year but we know in a playoff setting they can have these shitter games

because you can expose certain weaknesses yeah you couldn't do that against the nuggets the nuggets didn't have those type of weaknesses to poke at they are they were pretty much who they were in the playoffs every time and it was pretty full proof. They had the best late game execution fucking ever with Nicole Yokic. Like the consistency would be the reason you put them above the bucks. Yeah. And I very much remember back in 2021, the books are like live and die by Chris Middleton decision making and whatever you get from Janus.

Yes. Exactly. And whatever you can get from Janus in 30 seconds. And whatever it is. Mike Malone, I think was a better playoff coach at this point. But, you know, but was a all. my floor raiser was not inspiring confidence in terms of playoff adjustments and not to say Mike Malone is like Steve Kerr or something, some of the best coaches of all time. But you

didn't have those issues. Okay, I'm with you guys. I think if you guys want to say that they're better, that's cool. I don't know if I can go a tier above though. I don't, I don't think that they're that much better than the 21 bucks. I think they would give the 2020 Lakers a run for their money. I'd probably pick the Lakers, but I think that's a comfortable level of team. Yeah, I think they're very much in the same tier. The thing that does move me, obviously, the late game execution because that that is true and it was like if we get into the last six minutes there's one thing you can guarantee like Drew Holiday is going to do some of the most infuriating things possible and keep in mind this is the year where everybody was convinced

that Jamal Murray was going to be a playoff riser every year because he went so berserk and was averaging 28 points for series playing like a true star that didn't happen every year but this year it did and Jamal Murray was essentially a second star but that that 20203 Jamal Murray is not that different from 2017 Carrier viz. But that defensive trio of a 21 Brooke Lopez with Janice and having Drew Holiday

who can still move around and everything, those three right there, that really does move me. So that, that's what I'm saying. I just think that they should both be... Their bench wasn't like that, though. That's a difference. The depth is also better at the Nuggets. I've named a lot of differences, I think as you've been talking through it, that I think I feel fine putting them in A tier.

I think the NICS are just a more consistent team and more around the team overall But I'm not If you want to go top of B tier If you agree with that I'm not gonna fight that He doesn't agree with you I don't want to put them in A tier

Okay but we can go bottom of A tier Just yeah This like a lot of the number Numbers would agree with you too Like net rating things That they are closer to this team But that playoff run It was very very different

That playoff run they went crazy And the Yokish was all but You're probably right Didn't play anybody Who won 50 games Oh my God That's a nasty year you know what you're switching sides you play the heat in the finals yeah well you're you both

do that wow i think i think they're firmly better than the bucks but i'm not mad at the tier being just above them okay also just because we always flood a tier in these tier list and i want to have some differences here yeah trying to fight our own biases to always flood a tier 2023 oh first f tier Miami heats yep first f tier obviously f tier you know they fought tooth the nail to get there they had a crazy run shout out jimmy shout out the organization not a particularly good team was that the year they were like a seventh or eight c yes eight c here you you get in from from from from the play in but the way that people talk about playoff jimmy like that's 2020 yeah jimmy did have the highs of playoff jimmy the lows were also pretty bad like he had

games where he was scoring you know under under 20 points under 15 points and it did Wasn't the series of Celtics more about the Celtics? I can't remember exactly what happened. I remember thinking, wow, they shit the bad. So, yeah, because in 23, they were up 3-0. And the heat got up 3-0. And then Celtics came back. Oh, and it led up to game 7.

Yeah, game 7. Yeah, game 7. Yeah, game said, him like, get hurt or whatever. He rolled his ankle in the first two minutes of the game. Yeah. But 23, the first two games to that series really were like, it was like, okay, the Celtics are the better team, like, shout out to Jimmy because he's leading him that game three ended up being a blowout and it's like wow

they're really about to blow it and then they locked in game six was that Derek white game winner all that but they're just there's not the caliber of any of these other yeah i'm happy that we use ftier because we tend we tend to be kind of pussy or whatever i know never use i think we're now we need to force something we need to get better at that we have too many tier list where we're like they're all eight tier you get duh we're all the tierless is only gauging great teams of course we're all going to put people in fte and you guys are i know i know for now one i think we I think from now we have to force self, but at least one in S, one in F.

Like, I think we have to do that and, like, really... I think we just do that because we don't want people to get mad because, like, we respect these teams too. But, like, listen, they're all good. That's the point of the tier list. It's easier to do it.

I feel like we get caught in that trap when we're doing it with players because we don't want to be, like, mean to the player because, like, it'll only be one player. If it's the whole team, it's like, all right, you guys are. And it is also,

it's also because this is a tier list of losers, too. So it's easy to say the worst loser is F tier. when it's all winners, it's also kind of difficult. We've got to stand on it next time. Yeah, we've got to get better at that. We've done so many tier lists and we've never done it to the truest extent. I know we use every single tier except for F continues.

We might have the highest volume of tier list on the internet. We are not good at it. 2024 Boston Celtics. This is to me as a team I've been holding out for it. I think you can argue S-tier. Not that I think you should argue. I think this team is clearly S-tier. I don't know if they're clearly S-tier.

You can argue it. If the Rappers are S-Tier. This team is this year. This team, again, they didn't replicate it this year. They had some flaws. It regressed in 2025. For 2024, this team mastered modern basketball. The three-point era, we're going to look back at it for years from now and like the

revolution that happened in the 2010 to 2020s, the understandings we gained, the ways we understood to mathematicize the game. That's not a word. To turn the game into math to really find, to extract value and turn it into baseball where everything is a spreadsheet, this team exemplifies that. This is the nerds heaven right here. also they have that but also they're fucking nice they have six deep of star level players you want to talk about depth usually people say that they mean one through 10 you have good players

they're one through six but they have all star level players one through six if you're you know subscribing to the idea that Derek white was like also a level that year or whatever and you know also being generous out for me you know what I mean players that top 30 yeah we're top 35 players in the league that year and so they got the numbers up they played really well the execution of the scheme the jomas will put in was perfect they won the math game every time time they also had ludicrous defensive talent with the top six guys ludicrous offensive talent with the top six guys depth of star power i have not seen many teams like this my only slight pushback to that is that if we were to put them in like s here is such rare air you're genuinely

one of the greatest of all time which they're a championship team for a reason they are one of the greater teams of all time but i think the quality and star player okay someone like jason tatum yeah I think his performance and also Jalen Brown, he won finals MVP, but he didn't have a fantastic NBA final series either. It was a team collective overall that really like edged them towards the top. Counterpoint. The fact that they won the finals easily when Bolterstar shot like shit shows you how ludicrously dominant the team was. Think about that. They beat, they beat the shit out of the Mavs. It was not a close series. And Bolter Stars could not buy a bucket. That's how high their floor is. That's how amazing they are on the margin.

If you want to do the same reasons, we hype up the Thunder, the net rating, the sample size, everything, they're neck and neck with them and all those things. They're also a top five net rating team of all time. Everything measurable about basketball says this team's one of the best teams of all time and the outcome matched it. They waltzed their way to the finals. They were never pushed. And yet, you watch them. And like, this team, I do think is the, it is at the middle and the barometer of like that were nice. like stats watching because there is I agree with you I mean I can't disagree

like what was you saying is the numbers there is a small element of this team where you watch me like you're just not on that level like I know what I'm watching and you're not there and aesthetics aren't good because people don't like watching a lot of threes you know but even even then it's like I don't think anybody felt solid about them until until you're up to oh you know why that is though I think I think that's more about the reputation that gained from 2020 through 2023 was a lot of we're close but we failed and we all had these deep and gray narratives that we also subscribe to you and I don't think we're wrong to subscribe to that that the Tatum brown duo had these inherent flaws because

their style of play that we just had been beaten to a pulp and to force to stop believing in them then they added your holiday and KP performed like all-stars and that changed everything like yeah 2022 it was a great team and they added to all-star players and took away almost nothing of importance you know it's a i i have to respect the resume and the numbers and i guess like this is it's a very short list of teams and i mean the thunder are trying to get on there now but like it's a short list of teams that have won like 80 something

games right 20 losses all that stuff and this that version of the south six they did do it yeah they didn't sustain it you know they they regressed almost immediately for different reasons yeah and that's we can acknowledge that and also say while it kind of sucks, they probably won't have this extended run. They definitely won't now

because Tateham got hurt so there's also that. But for this year, it'll probably get forgotten to history because it wasn't fun. It wasn't aesthetic. People don't like it. But this is one of the most dominant teams

of all time. And you know what? We can put them in S2 because they did that run. Also, like we talk about their top heavy depth and being 1 through 6, they did a majority of that run

without Chris Thompson Puisine. Yeah, that's very true. No KP. Bolter stars shut themselves from shooting wise from the in the play in the finals they they they're there's tier feels feels good there might have that might be the highest floor team of the last 40 years like that is crazy that they want so easily with that that with everything you just said bad kp

poor shooting from both their star players and it was never a question who's gonna win that final series after game one yeah they want so easily okay s tier s t is as far 2024 Dallas mavericks elite defense you know they had a missyson turnaround because they added Daniel Gafford and PJ Washington after a slow start, the Kyrie Luca duo perfection of one-two punch offensively with a great defense with play finishers around them. And they sputtered out the end because Luca got hurt. So I think we do it with the fact that in a little bit that while they got exposed

by the way better team in the finals, Luca wasn't 100%. We don't got to give them too much bail and put them A or anything, but that is part of it. I'll go see above the 21 sons. Timbers between one sons is a fun debate I don't know who'd win that It's interesting

I think they would win But it's not like a clear cut Would they win? I think they would win I think they would win You definitely have the best player in the series And you do have a version of Kyrie You agree C?

I think I put them in C Okay nice Yeah and you do have a version of Kyrie that For whenever he was on Was on And like could be there Now, you saw the stinkers in the final.

Oh, yeah. I also think that part of that was, like, I'm going up against this. It was a lot of, like, mental stuff. But also, but listen, you didn't perform. So, like, that is on tape. People say that they also have to be facing the team that's probably on this list, the single most equipped team to defend Kyrie Irving with Drew Holiday, Derek White, and Jalen Brown.

Like, they just had the perfect defenders to go against him, too. I don't even, like, blame him that much. Yeah, and this is the worst offense for someone like Lucu Dodgers to go ahead and try to defend as well. Yeah. The Celtics had all the answers for what they wanted to do. And the splits in that series were crazy in terms of like when they were in Boston and when they were in Dallas. Sounds a lot like this year.

And you know, we'll get to that. Yeah, the Luca factor is a big one between them and the Suns. That's the only debate here is where you want to put them in the C tier. Because I think on paper, everything says the Suns are better over the sample size, especially because they didn't have the slow start to the season. I'm sure all their net ratings are better. The Offensive Red defensive rating probably reflect that. Luca really did go sick on mode for those first few rounds The defense being elite rising the level

Derek lively being great And Luca going berserk like he always does when he's healthy And as a good team He is truly a player for risers so that factors into it Yeah I think and especially when you factor in the fact That any time he sees the suns he blacks out Oh you're right I forgot He sent them packing so yeah we're going to put them up

We're going to put you right there Yeah okay that's fair 2022 Celtics still above them I actually don't know but that's 2022 Celtics I really like I really like 22 Celtics above them

Yeah I really like the 22 Celtics I don't think I don't No my bad I'm moving up the Mavericks I'm moving up the Raptors I mean the Mavericks for sure Yeah You just had so many team names

I know I said Mavericks Raptors The Raptors popped in there somehow Cameo Okay Yeah I think I think that's fair For every reason I respect the 24 Celtics

I don't respect the 22 Celtics because none of that shit was true that I just said I think that team was deeply flawed before they got Drew Holiday and KP yeah it's also it's 20 did they have white in 22 I can't remember I think white was that probably freshly was that 22 no I think they acquired him in 22 they might no they might have got him in 22 yeah no they did they definitely did yeah yeah yeah because they have Brogden and white at a at a certain point oh yeah yeah yeah brogden and white you are they acquired him at that deadline yeah yeah okay 2025 we're here to this year's team my first thought we're gonna debate these teams too thoroughly I think because game seven

hasn't played yet we don't know who's gonna win yeah I think both teams are eight tier hmm so that that's my thought is obviously okayc if okayc had won tonight

and finishing game six we would have been talking about okayc next year I think we currently because game seven hasn't happened we reserve the right we'll go eight tier to be conservative and also

they have the offensive lows that I think you can can say they're not the level of those teams in S-tier that are perfect. I really don't think the Raptors should be S-tier, so I'll exclude them when I say that. I think it's fine to say the offense in the playoffs holds them back in the same way that the bucks are below the nuggets because they have offensive inconsistencies, that that's why the Thunder would be top of A-tier, even if they win game seven. That's fair argument.

And then Pacers, they just fucking deserve it. They've just proven us wrong in every court. Yeah. I'll say this. So, I think that if the Thunder win, I think you can, if you can, if you can, if you don't want to put the raptors in that's true we could we could honestly swap out to thunder if if they win we could swap them out for the rafters and kind of you know make that make that that is i don't want to put that logically i don't think makes any sense yeah i don't want to put

if you if you guys genuinely want to put that raptor team in eight tier i've gone to the point to where i'm like i'm i'm okay with that because the ojiani nob wasn't the ogenadinov you we know we know now and also norm pal wasn't he was very good back then he he isn't the normal I don't want to put the 2019 team. I don't, I don't, I mean, it feels icky to put a team that lost above a team that won in this specific year. That is true. So, we'll get the Raptors in S tier, but put them at the bottom. All right.

I think the 2025 Thunder could be the top of A tier. And I think this, again, so the Pacers might win game seven and this might look crazy. And if that's the case, you know, high insight at 2020. My thought is to do this and put the Thunder at the top of A tier. Actually, I guess we'll put 73 above them. And then the Pacers at the bottom of A tier. Okay. That's my thought.

And I just mostly because the Pacers can, as I'm recording this, can beat the thunder. It's not odd of the equation. I don't think they will. I think we'll probably live in a timeline which the patient didn't win. And living in the moment, they've just simply earned it. They're going toe to toe with this team. And it's not fluky in any way. It's not.

But it does look nuts. It does look nuts. However, the argument that I would say is if this 25 Pacers team played y'all's 23 nuggets, who wins? That's hard. that's such a that's such a different matchup because yokech are so hard to like correlate like it's hard probably the nuggets i'm going to shit but again i didn't think that that's a very different i don't i don't know how to parse that because obviously i think yeah because i think that's that's obviously because like we're talking about right now but if we're talking about over the last 10

years you know being at the bottom of a tier and at the top of b tier that's kind of you know i like said like that's the lot i don't think that they would beat the 23 nuggets so i do think that they should be okay well what about the 21 bucks i don't i don't know i think that that's more of an even series i think that out of 10 i think i would pick the nuggets six times out of 10 you don't even feel good about it you're queasy what i would do personally i'm trying i'm trying to like create a different like i think i think if they play 10 times i do think i do think that this Pacer's team has shown that they can play anybody

and so I would give them 50-50 chances against the 21 bucks I do think that more often than not the Nuggets would beat this Pacer's team okay yeah if I would if the series ended today and the Pacers lost I put them B tier yeah I think if they had lost today

and the Thunder were the champions I think the Thunder will still be the champions in game seven but again this conversation is only for you if you're watching the next three days you guys will know the outcome in the future and if it's what I think it'll be the patient should be B tier

but we don't know if that's the case or not But even But that's what I'm saying Like even if they win Yeah I don't know if they're better I don't know if they're a step Above the 23 nuggets

I guess really Really what I'm saying is We're just like Pussy footing because Put them in B2 Don't do it Put them in B2 Yeah

Okay B tier If we're wrong We're wrong And the thunder That shouldn't be above them But We're hedging our bets

A little bit Because we don't want a world In which the Pacers Win the series in a few days And then we put a thunder Above them It looks crazy Watch a week from now

But no fuck it We all think The Thunder are the better team and if the Patriots win, they will have beaten the better team. It has happened before the team that would win over a thousand game sample size

and the seven game sample size they won. Yeah, we have it in the tier above where 2016 is at the top of that tier even though that they don't have a title to the team that they beat in 2016 and that's because they have that level

of a player in LeBron. It's the same thing here. If Indiana wins the title, it is one of the best feats that we have in the modern NBA, they still are a B, a B tier team. right like that's that's just what it is but that makes their accomplishment that much

yes i firmly agree like no one's over here saying like when it comes to that 21 000 maverick team we don't big up the team we big up the moment and what they're able to accomplish in that specific year you know side no you underrate that team but yes exactly and i can say as well i agree with you and i can also say as well like i we've all underrated the indiana it takes the entirety of fucking america as well but they're still beat here yeah you line them up against these all-time greats. I didn't know how much you wanted to account

for the fact that we don't know the outcome yet and they could still win. But if we want to just treat it like scratch my throat

if we just want to treat it like how we believe the quality of these teams regardless of the outcome of game seven, yeah. Now the interesting one and I don't

if they lose them with the 24 Mavericks no matter what the Pacers are better than the Mavericks I think. Yeah, I would I think I would probably choose the this year's paces

over that year Mavericks. This patient team is good man. their defensive level they reached. Yeah, like how they took leaps defensively and how they've just like adjust to every single matchup, they will have some for Luca. They would have Luca in hell, man.

I agree. I disagree. I don't, I don't think they have Shay in hell. Relatively. Yeah. Lucas is bigger. You're all right. They have Shay and hell half the games.

Half the games, Jay gets his way. Yeah. I think it would be similar. Yeah. Shade. Like, Shade just had 15 in a, in a fourth quarter. Yeah. And I think like the size of.

of Luca, I think he can handle Niece Smith and Nemhart a little bit better than Shay can. But that's neither here or there. Okay, that's fine. Yeah, and I feel fine about this. I feel like the patience are a legitimate championship quality team. I don't think they're going to win it. Again, four days from now, I might sound silly. You can watch this back.

You might be laughing at us in the comments. We'll deserve it. But if we're just going to plant our flag and not try to hedge our bets and if we're not going to try to be right and make it safe, we all think they're beat here. Yeah, we have them as the second, even if they if they lose, we have them as the second highest losing team over the last 10 years. Yeah.

Behind the Warriors, which is obviously a weird second sense. Oh, yeah. Warriors Cabs. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, 2017 Caps. Yeah. Yeah.

And those two teams are the best record of all time and the best player of all time. So I feel very good about that. I say, yeah, for teams that don't have Kevin Durant or LeBron Jane. Yeah. You are the best. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I feel really good about this list right now.

is there any debates that anything we should obviously the top three warriors teams best team of all time even given 2019 bail 24 easy raptors they're there because they'd be 2019 a tier solid we could be i guess we could be a little bit more selective about s tier and we could move toronto down to a but that's that's about it yeah i guess if we want to do that you could no that's kind of similar to the patient thing if we're if we're if we're sending the present we're okay with teams being below even though they beat them, then yeah, the Raptors aren't as good as the 2019 Warriors. But they won, so I don't feel terrible. Yeah,

they won in all season that year, too. It felt like they were going to, it felt like they were going to finally get over that hump. The quality and depth of that team, how, like, this is Kwai Leonard that year was genuinely

one of the best players of all time. And everything around him as well, it just confirms to me like they legitimately are, yeah, they're five out, they're six, deep is incomparable. To be fair, during that year, everyone thought the Bucks were going to make the finals.

The Raptors were like, the Raptors were kind of overlooked. Like people that knew what they're talking about knew they were like a threat, but the bucks were actually the favorites that year. Yeah, exactly. And things changed a little bit in that season two, specifically in 2019 because midseason, that's when they traded away Jonas Valencianus and made Marcus also think the narrative switched towards the end of the video for sure. Yeah, I forgot that was in a misseason acquisition.

Yeah. But the Bucs were up to, though. And the Raptors walking down Yeah, walking down hard Yeah Got that ass Muscles for no reason Eric Bledsoe

I forgot the head Eric Bledsoe still That's why Eric that's why they were so successful In building the wall It's like we can put everybody here Eric Bledsoe is not going to make Any shots

Like that is That is the reason why they went out And got Drew Holiday Because Bledsoe could defend You know As well as anybody But you needed a little bit more Offensive duty

And Bledso just couldn't get it done Look at that. What a good tier list. I think we nailed this. This is fun. This is fun. I don't even think that's really any debates,

really. I guess you're going to say 23 nuggets might be a tier, but I don't feel too bad about this. It's okay. Yeah, I, that's, yeah, 23 nuggets can be very debatable,

but overall I feel really good about this as well. Cool. And with that being said, that's the end of this episode of the second, I say that's the end of the second section of this episode. I think, I think I hear whispers.

I think I hear. You hear them too. too. I think so. The voices in your head. You hear the voices in your head as well. And the crown ears at home, they feel a tingling in their system. Raise them up, brother. My crayon, brother. Let's move. It's TikTok time. Welcome to TikTok time. I'm crayonless. What the hell?

Give him his crayon. My bad. My bad. My bad. His eyes can start twitching. Can't contain himself. Exactly. Like my brain doesn't work full capacity. I see you unless I got a crown with me. Well, there you go. It's like my vitamins. You got lost in time travel. Exactly.

Well, the good thing for you is we're starting off with something the crayon eaters know-in-love, so you should be happy right now. We're once again going to begin with the draft. Today, we're going to begin by drafting players only drafted in the 2020s. Okay. So the last five NBA draft class, 2020, which is Anthony Edwards draft class, all the way through 24, which is the Zachary Reischet draft class. That's doing it.

You guys. Yeah, your guy. So, yeah, you guys know. Point guard through center. We're going to build teams. draft order is Donovan, me, Mo. We know who you're taking already. Yeah, whatever, whatever.

But, you know, call shams, let them know. The pick is in. Let's see, who can build the best NBA team with the youngest stars in the NBA currently? Donovan, where we're going with the first pick? Number one pick, I want the newly minted monk of the NBA. Give me Victor Women Yama. Okay, easy pick. Actually, I don't know if it is easy pick.

I'll take the best player right now. Give me Anthony Edwards. Okay. Now the draft really starts. Yeah, two top 10 players out of the way already. And now this is where there's a semi-sizeable gap. Well, maybe. So naturally, at my one, give me Cade Cunningham.

Okay. And then at my four, yeah, at my four, give me J-dub, one of the more versatile players that we've seen right now and the fucking star. Okay. Hey, listen, I mean, you're starting off with good positional size. I'm surprised you went to date of though interesting I gotta get him off the board he just covers all potential questions

that I have on my team okay give me the guy who's probably the best compliment and I could imagine give me Tyre's Halliburton you got it he got it word what did I forget someone

add my power forward I would like Chet Hungren yeah that's cool oh go for it you think I'm dying over that you can barely Hulu hoop you got him bro first of all

Chet and Wemby at the four or five is nasty i just i'm just shocked that because there was a guy that i thought that one of you guys would take but you didn't so yeah we're we're straight um at see this is this is this is what you want to go huge go for it hmm so you want to go huge go for i let you have it yeah i guess so there's so many options here i'm fine i want to see him do what i we know what he should do we know what you're itching to do do it i want that's your guy stand on it it doesn't you think he's taking a leap next year it doesn't it doesn't it doesn't It doesn't fit.

It doesn't fit. Ah, you're a cop out. It doesn't fit. He don't believe in what do you say. He's not 10 toes down. I don't care. It's an All-Star team. Give me Palo back at the three.

Yeah. Big and money team. I don't care. All-Star team. That's what we're doing. Give me Evan Mowgli. Oh, shit. Okay, yeah.

Yeah, I figured I get one of Palo or Mowably. I'm good with that. Yeah, that was going to be my next pick, sadly. But it's okay. Okay. So now I'm left. At the two, three, and I need a five. Who is my backport going to be?

What's right? Okay. So I need a wing. My team is pretty fucking balanced as fuck, bro. Yeah, you can go either way right now. You can do whatever you want. Literally, I can. Okay.

So right now, I think, give me even more versatility at my three. Give me Scotty Barnes. Ooh, that's a good pick. Okay. Yeah. Give me Scottie Barnes on my three. And then thinking about twos out here who comes. compliment kade scotty and jada this is such a well-balanced team right now 23 draft um

oh am i i i'm my two give me someone who's very underrated so and y'all probably not thinking about okay give me too moni camara okay a strap down defender he's not really a two type of defender but you can have him shit bro he's on the wing my team is biggest out yeah your team is quite a large give me i gave me an athlete i'm i just want to be athletic as hell around Tyrese Halliburton. Give me a men Thompson at the three. Okay. I like that. I like that. Does you got a good mix of role players and guys need the ball in their hands. Let's see. I'm our point guard. Toe dependent. Darius Garland. Nice from 2019. 2019. Yeah. Dang it. All right. Dang it. Dang it. Dang it. He's with Zion and. Shuts. You thought.

Oh, dude. Well, you know what? I did say it's an all-star team. Lamello ball. Oh, man, he's playing nasty ball. Your team is having fun. I'll tell you that. Quite a fun team. Lemeli-o. Who is going to round this out? And then you know what?

Glue guy, stepping up right now. Oh, my God. Nemhart? Oh. He's from 2020. He's 22, I believe, as well. He's 22. Yeah, I'll take Nimhart, Blue Guy.

The only player in this thing that's like, you know what? You have a role. Seriously basketball. Yeah. No. Okay. Okay. Now my mind's going, Blake.

I have not thought about another power forward. I don't know why. I was just listening to y'all talk. I was not thinking. 201 was Mobley and them. 22. Austin Reeves is right there. Oh, Austin Reeves would be fire.

He was not drafted, though. He wasn't drafted. He wasn't, but it's his class. Nah, he's not drafted. What do you mean? He, why are you trying to give him Austin Reeves? Do you see how big your team is and how versatile my team is? I want, I want him to play into that trap.

He's all. also not taking awesome reason i'm not taking awesome reason i know i kind of who do i want to take here i can go big and put another you know what i ever muby's a spacer now let me go large let me get a guy who's proven to be a good defender now give me singoon i put it at movin back at the four mow we ever seen a men and sing go play off each other give me that okay that's not bad i kind of like that fit that's not bad yeah mowgli takes a he can do that that's not bad at all Moby's going to abuse Chet. Yeah, right.

Moby is much better than him now. Next year, next year, chat will hang, but right now those weak ass legs. Those are those twig legs right now? Post hip injury. Okay.

And again his ass. We're going bono on bone. Bono. Again, what? No, every movie's strong, you know. Every movie's thick.

All right. I got Kade Tomani Camaras. And we've seen as in the movie. J-Dub. What? Last year we used a rookie. Give him 40. There's a sizable gap.

I was there. You were? You seen him drop like 40 or something? Yeah, in person. It's crazy. I pulled up trying to watch Wemby and I was like, what is happening? This is the worst outcome possible. I wasn't Wemby like two for seven?

Yeah. It was one of the worst games of his career. All right. So to round this out, MI5, fuck, I have to deal with Chet, I have to deal with Wemby,

and then Pallow big ass. Moby's there too in Sangu. Give me Derek lively. He's a good lob threat. Peace though. For a second. defender for a second your team was huge now you know he's a he's a he's a center with great size you're right he's big he's the best you could do but now I'm looking at these two

don't want to do get Zach Eadie or something like that I don't know but we got two double big lineups and you got I guess Scotty Barnes to hold the zone defending Mobley yeah yeah yeah you're good to Monty and Cade yeah it is Jada is basically your shooting guard Tumani's your power forward so like if you think about it that way defensively it's a Swiss Army knife bro yeah yeah it is okay these are some stacked ass teams who won because Donovan has the most talent but his team She was bullshit. I don't care.

I don't care. So, my team is Tyrese Halliburton, Anthony Edwards, Amen Thompson, Evan Mowgli, and Alperin-Sengun. Okay. I got Cade Cunningham, Tumani Camara, Scotty Barnes, Jadob, and Derek lively. And I have Lamella Ball. This is stupid.

Lamella Ball, you know what you were doing too. I love that you stood on it. I told you. It was all start. Lamele Ball, Andrew N. N. M.R., Chet, Homer, and then Wembe, Edson. You're three through five. I see the vision.

It can be huge. If it was somebody that wasn't Lamello Ball. if it was like, I don't know, if you had like a men Thompson there or Tyree Taliburton there, like a more don't need the ball type of guy, I think I would see the vision. Lamello confuses me.

Mind you, this might be the best situation Lamello has ever been in. Facts. And so if we start the season like this, we never build those bad habits. We get Lamello ball playing serious basketball. Who would actually win in these games though?

Maybe if Cade is like, if Cade was like the idealized version of Cade, like a year and a half, from now i think mo would win but right now there might be a lot on kate's plate if mo wins his team is winning 80 to 79 facts oh absolutely yeah straight strapped you know if you had mobly instead of lively i think you would be the best yeah i wanted i wanted moby so bad yeah if you had mowgli then then i'd be like oof yeah that was the biggest swing swing factor for sure because after shit after moby there's a steep drop off yeah maybe i should take like a lively instead of sang

one guy one guy needs a ball in his hands it's chalk i think i win though this is this is actually a hard one I'm like debating in my head the philosophy is a team building here But okay You guys let us know who wins As always We want to see your opinion in the comments Next thing we're gonna do

I'm gonna name Actually I'm gonna show you Some NBA teams And you're gonna have to guess Who they are Only by their Instagram followers Cloud Chasers Yep you gotta gaze

The cloud levels of these teams And see if we can identify Who you're looking at All right Oh man this is gonna be so weird I don't know This might be easier It might be really hard

I really don't know Because there's some giveaways Some trends you can notice But I think at first It might be a little difficult But there might be some weird stuff though as well into it But I'm expecting, I'm expecting the unexpected.

There's also a lot of famous NBA players. That's quite hard. Okay. Okay. First team, who were you looking at? We got 5 million followers to the point guard. Everybody else sub 200K. Sorry.

This team is ass. This team sucks. He said, no motion. 5 million and then 160, 117. 5 million isn't insanely popular though. Yeah, 5 million is a lot. 161, 117. When I, okay, so when I think about, when I think about, like, teams that have IG famous

point guards and then nobody else is just like, eh, like, yeah, he's an NBA player, so he has that clout. You're either going to have the Charlotte Hornets, obviously, with LaMello Ball, or you're going to have the MVP at Porn Guard. The MVP of Pond Guard. LeMello has way more, way more followers than 5 million. And I think. I also have no bearing

in terms of like who's the ranking. Yeah. Okay, so if you if you do think that Lamello has you're on the same page, then is this the Oklahoma City Thunder? Nah,

no, not, not, not. Chet and Jadab have more followers. Yeah, that's very few followers. And then like Isaiah Hardinstein, like not Isaiah Hornstein, but there's international playing to this too.

I think Ludo has definitely more than like 165. Yeah, I think this is the Atlanta Hawks because Trey Dauk's. I think that's 5 million followers. I sent yesterday. He posted a picture of him with a du rag. Why are you wearing a du rag?

This is the Atlanta Hawks. He's trying to lay it down. Lay what down? It's almost over, buddy. He said, this team stinks. I said, man, you know better than I do. This team does stink. Yeah, this is the Atlanta Hawks code.

Just Trey and then a bunch of dudes. Yeah, a bunch of young players that don't have big names. This is the Atlanta Hawks. Damn. So listen, you start off one for one. Next up, which team is this? All right. Now we are talking.

10 million followers to point guard. Smooth 600 K for the point guard. the power forward and then some smaller guys okay so this is the oklahoma city thunder because this is this kind of feels a little bit more in line with what i was thinking like yeah this could be okay c or uh the charlotte hornets but i probably lean towards okayc we're going to okayc incorrect damn charlotte hornets correct correct it's one of these cloudy point guards you got it dude who has that miles bridges it is yeah 500 that's nasty word lamella ball 10 million that's insane that's a huge

I actually thought it was more than that where does he rank in like clouded yeah in terms of like obviously like LeBron's one well you're talking 20 and under Bobby number two he's probably he's high wow okay teens he's high okay next team who is this

star wing duo and I gotta pull it up now because I'm getting to forget yeah star wing duo see I almost said their power forward has no motion but this is not Tatum and Tatum and Brown because And what world would Derek White have 500,000 followers? I mean, listen, Derek White.

People like him. He's a Celtic, I guess. But like, again, two and three is, it's throwing me off. That's the biggest thing that sticks out to me now. I'm not going to lie, we are in hell. But these are, these are legitimate stars. And see, this is, this is tough. If you think about, please.

The center. The center is more notable than he has followed. More notable. So he has less followers than you would think. The center has less followers than you would think, given how good he is. Okay. Let's think about centers. But the two and three being clouded.

Oh, never mind. The two and three being clouded is the most famous players on this team. Like, that's not a coincidence. Okay. Centers. Okay. These might be players you don't think about much anymore, not think about it. Okay.

Centers, I'm just rattling off names. It's not Alfredson Goon. No one like Jared Allen. Um, it's definitely not the Memphis Grizzies with Zach Edie. Yeah. It can't be, um, it can't, it can't be that like 376 is not Embedd, obviously. Yokic, it's not him. Yeah.

I'm surprised you're starting here. Not the ones that have three and two million followers. That's a lot of followers. It is, but, I need to know the average NBA, like thing. I need to know, like, are they like 12 through 20? If you're in the millions, you're probably an all star, I think. that's not always true but I would assume you're probably a star player or you've been around for a long long time Indiana Pacers

I think you can either be you can have a lot followers because you're really good and young or you've been around for a long time oh no no go ahead it's not the Minnesota Timberwolves nope not the Minnesota Timberwolves I don't know who who's the three who's came three million all the Jamie McDaniels if the people love you you're right I don't know this is the Sacramento Kings that is Zach Levina de Marta Rosen yeah I'm not going to get this see three six six six 76 feels right for the subpoena. That's why.

That's why. Okay. Yeah, I mean, I didn't think you'd be thinking about tomorrow too hard. So that was a trick one. Next team. Kegan Murray only has $100,000. Keegan Murray, he won't run a spot for you. King of Ferry.

Start doing some day in my life. Get ready to me to get your numbers up, man. Who is this team led by a 4.4 million up follower at the center? Ooh. Wow. Big number. Not too shabby around the board, though. small forward closing it on a mill point guard closing in on a mill is this the

philadelphia 76ers this is not the philadelphia 76ers no you think you would think paul george has that have over a million yeah i forgot paul george by a lot i don't know what he has he is i'm sure he's multi-million the podcast p page probably he's probably closer to 10 mil yeah yeah for sure she's probably actually above 10 mil he's been around for a long i think he probably has like that's why i'm gonna say 12 all right okay so centers who would have 4.4 are i'm just go here. Is this Yokits? Is this the Denver Nuggets? You think Yokos is online like that? Yonkers don't have Instagram actually. I watched some random

podcast or some random interview. I don't know what his brother's are doing. Luke was like, brother, you should have an Instagram. I make so much of money off of it. Who said that? Luke had said that to Nicole Yowich. I think was an all-star game. Damn. 4.4 million. Okay, 4.4 million.

This is a really good. That point guard and set a small four a combination. Notable online. Notably online. notable online wow wow wow see at first see at first I was like

I was like does Deer Fox is he like getting up there oh maybe wouldn't be but I don't know is the three can't it can't be

there's no way I'm gonna tell you some it's not the spurs that's okay it just can't be that it can't be that'd be crazy Harrison Barnes clouded okay not the spurs

could this be you guys are struggling oh wait could this be the New York Knicks? This is the New York Knicks. I was going to say, I like that this one should be pretty easy, I think. Yeah, okay.

No, it'll be online. I'm looking at that two and that three. I'm like, this has to be some goofball. Josh Hart, almost a million followers. You know why? Laker. True. Laker.

Yeah. Drafts about Lakers. That's what it is. And then I'm surprised Brunson is not in a mill yet, but he'll be getting that soon. Shout out to OG. Almost 350? Yeah, that's what I'm saying? He don't do nothing.

He doesn't do anything. next up which team is this led by a powerful word of 1.1 mil and nobody else even close and the center with 159 damn damn damn damn no motion yo this is actually really hard this is this is much harder like this is awful just straight clout popularity honestly so i think it's this one the jump shot one was also very very tough oh we suck with that yeah yeah those might have been the two toughest that we've done i don't know i feel like y'all aren't thinking through this well enough. I feel like you can get a little more strategic with this. Is this

Zion Williamson and the Pelicans? This is not Zion Williams and the Pelicans, but you're obviously, you know that's power forward, so you're under my lines. Okay. It's not Zion. It's not Paulo Van Carrow. I don't think he hasn't know. Yes, it is. This is Palo van Carrey on the Orlando Magic. Damn, all right, Paulo. Never mind. You've got to believe in yourself a little bit more.

If it's the number one pick, you probably have a lot of followers. Yeah, he went to Duke to his wife. Yeah, this one should have been easy. Okay. Next up. Which team is this? 2.4 million. 2. 2.4 million at a shooting Guard, point guard and center. Most of the team mess in motion. I almost said, it's got to be Donovan Mitchell, but I'm like, Jared Allen, 700K, where?

Definitely not. No. But that would be hilarious. That would be such a cool, like, plot twist. Jared Allen's actually clouded. Lego Twitter is all over him. That's the only way possible. Okay, so not.

This is a, this is ridiculous. And I don't believe that this is the case. But the only thing that's coming to my mind is the Minnesota Timberwood. Oh, it is them. No, it is not. That's what? Because the only reason why I didn't. believe it is because there's no way

in hell Mike Connolly has 600 other ID He could, he's been around for a long time True I can see that I mean that's not crazy Nah When you see who this is

You could very well see Mike Connolly having the same followers To the point guard What's he moving like that Okay so the popular two's though It's Remember popular isn't always just because they're good No never mind

I almost said this could be the Dallas Mavericks But Anthony Davis has way more than 735K Yeah he definitely way more than that zero chance but i there's there's something in common there between the mavericks and the team you just named i mean between the mavericks and the team this is there's a through line here that you're getting close are texas maybe no wait oh this is the houston rockets this is the houston rockets that's jalen green there we go jalen green is 2.4 million a you demon wing stop commercials

man yeah they get you okay and it's in goons at 700k listen all of turkey follows them That is true The entire country We got 628K Because all the Canada follows him Because he won the championship All right Yep

Next up Which team is this Famous Center famous point guard Hmm 4.4 mil at center Oh That shooting guard has no motion No shooting guard has negative motion

I was gonna say This should be the Dallas Mavericks But it's not Anthony Davis is winning more The 4.4 Hmm Is Dallas Mavericks Nope

Fuck Yeah of course Kyrie definitely has more as well. Oh, I'm sure Carrier is 20 mil. Yeah. Okay. Again, this should not be difficult. Yeah.

That three, that three is almost at a mil too. That's what I'm saying. One three, one three five are all cloudy. Ignore the three. Ignore the three. Ignore the three. There's two people with a million followers here. Who could that be?

Famous duo. Two famous people. One and five. Okay. So I was thinking about the better one and five. I was saying you said this team's name already during this segment at some point. I've said. You said a lot of teams.

I think I've said 66% of the league probably that's a specific as number two okay I did come up with a fancy way to say 20 let's break this down bring it down it is just the Philadelphia 76ers it is not the Philadelphia 76ers for two seconds on this can't be the Los Angeles clippers damn sure not the Lakers as well um no one There's no one in gold to say. I'm knocking out all the West Western Carpherty. 4.4 million at the center. Yeah.

That's a lot of followers for a center. It's either. Yolk it's Jol and B. Yeah, it's either. We, it's not, okay, not Yokic, not M. Okay. The other clouded centers. Who are we forgetting?

Oh, this is Antonia Spurs. Yes, there you go. Yeah, yeah. Put your thinking caps on. Yeah, there you go. Next team. Who is this? Led by a two and a three, both incredibly famous.

Oh, and a four. This team is clouded. Jesus. 13. Oh, wow. This has to be 13.6. That's a lot of followers. Ridiculous. Is this the Phoenix Suns? This is the Phoenix Suns.

Yeah. Booker 5.6, B.O. 1.2. Kevin Durr at 13.6. See, the 1.1.2 for Bill threw me off a little bit because I'm like, this man don't start no more. Yeah, that's center. We got Nick Richards. Just being there. Just there. Respectable. Next team, led by a point guard. Power forward's almost at a mill. Don't sleep on them. But the point guard is a famous player here.

Okay. This point guard runs this shit. Thanks. The Oklahoma City Thunder. This is the Oklahoma City Thunder. I've been waiting. I've just been waiting. You've been waiting.

Everybody you look, you see Thunder. Please. Okay. This is them. Shout to Chet almost at a mill. Facts. Look at you. Almost there.

Round of applause for Chet Holmgren. Next up. Which team is this? 40. Talk about. Talk about, talk about. Do we have more followers in this guy? That does not say.

20K. That says 20K and 40K. Damn. 34K. You have no motion. You have no motion. You barely exist. Oh, damn.

Okay, who's one of the worst teams in the league? Straight brown shirts. I'm going to say the Brooklyn Nets. Nope, not the Brooklyn. There's a 2.2 Miller, by the way. Oh, this is the Washington Wizards. Who do you think 2.2 is? Jordan Pool probably.

That's exactly the same. Yeah. Yeah. The 20K is a bit of a cheat. it's Champani, whose account is private. Oh, okay. So, you know, he doesn't want the public to follow him. And the point of guard, we got Bob Carrington,

power for Kishon George. So the young guys, just got in the league. And they played on a team that nobody watched this year. But okay, that's the last one. I'm glad you guys got that one. I thought that was one of the harder ones. Yeah, that was kind of easy because it was screaming like trash, trash, not trash, but obviously.

Yeah, that was hard because you would think like, oh, star shooting guard carrying a team? No, he's just real famous. He just played in Golden State. Yeah. Wow. Okay, okay, though. Next thing we're going to do, Mo, I believe you have something for us about pre-draft comparisons.

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. I do. This is something that we've done in the past, plenty of times of four. We're going to go ahead and look back a little bit in the past. I have a slew players for you guys, and I want you guys to guess the NBA player by their pre-draft comparisons. This is a combination of two players combined and make one. I want you to guess who this player is based off of these two. Got so before they were taken and all the players at the media.

was comparing him to say they have shades of so-and-so in their game yeah exactly so I really want you to mix two players and really imagine who this could be okay Vince Carter and Magic Johnson if that's not LeBron James that sounds like LeBron James I don't know he had an immediate stank face is like God damn this is the goat I imagine it right now imagine it jump like Vince Carter that's the goat and what do you know LeBron James is obviously the answer the goat it is LeBron James congratulations. There we go. That was clear as day. Yo, ESPN was cooking back in the day when they were trying to guess what LeBron would be. I'm not going to let. I'm not going that. There's a lot of audacity to call the rookie that and they got it right. Yeah.

Shout out whoever said that. Next up, we got Dwayne Wade and Lance Stevenson. So very different players. Good player. Annoying his help. Yeah. So a slasher, they probably say has some defensive chops can put his hand in the dirt, slap the ground. Yeah, exactly. But the range is so wildly, Yeah. You're either a top 20-ish player of all time or you're Lance Stevenson. I'm going to see Duane Wade. Is it Anthony Edwards? No, not D. Wade.

Donovan. This is a really good guest, though. Donovan Mitchell? No, it's not D. Mitch. Okay. Like, really get closer to Lance Stevenson. Okay. He is not.

I will say he is not an all-star. Okay, so Lance Stevenson, but with hops, but with athleticism. Not an all-star. Is he playing today? He is playing today, yes. Which is barely as the old? Does he sound? Like things are not looking bright for sure

I'm not saying he's old Okay So who flamed out Somebody that's a really annoying player Yeah But he had a Dwayway type singing Or is just his play style That's what people saw in college

I will say like his play style In the NBA is nothing like D-O-Aid Is it Was this Victor Oladipo? No No This is not Victor Ola-Dipo Okay but it's probably a similar

type of flame out Considering the pick Obviously Odebo good year You shouldn't call the flame out But you know I'm guessing it's a high pick That didn't pan out High pick it didn't pan out

It's not Audrey Barrett Is it? It's after 2010. Not R.J. Berry Evans? No. You're getting a little bit closer, but it's not Tyree Evans.

I need to see a list of years, like a draft class. Yeah. This one's, okay, I give up. Who is? Marcus Mark is. Oh. Wow. Mark is smart.

I was never going to get there. Marcus Smart. He would, I will say his college tape, if you were just looking at raw highlights, impressive. No, man, who said this? He was never a burner like that. He wasn't fast.

ESPN said it, not me, man that's ridiculous I feel cheated by the game next up we got Carmelo Anthony and Chris Bosch Carmel Palo Bankero

yeah ooh no you guys said that wait to Chris no Evan Mobley no okay

Carmelo Anthony and Chris Boss this is so simple to me it's so simple to you okay someone who Camel Anthony is a pure bucket Chris Bosch is just

a big guy size I mean yeah Chris Bosch isn't a pure bucket so that makes it hard I'm guessing it's like the size of Chris Bosch

was a bucket though yeah yeah yeah not a pure bucket in the So I'm guessing It's someone who is the size of Chris Bosch He's a big man that can shoot

But he's like a face-up game Yeah It's not Wemby No not Wemby But it's like a player Like that size Don't lot of me This is Paolo Bancaro

No it's not Paulo Is this Kevin Durant? No it's like Katie Good guess though That felt like Kevin Durant But you are like On the nose Like think of the worst version

Of Katie No Not the worst version of Katie Brandon Ingram No way worse than Brandon Ingram Too Amani Boll bowl you're no not bobo not that bad

the worst he was oh wait wait wait Michael Porter Jr no not Michael Porter Jr he's closer to Imani Bates than Michael Porter Jr The word so hard he's better than Imani Bates he was drafted around the same time KD was oh so pre 20 10 Michael Beasley

yes Michael Beasley he's big left handed can give you a abundance of buckets See, Carmelo Anthony, I understand. The Chris Bosch thing threw me the fuck off. Yeah. Well, okay, that makes sense. All right.

So basically Palo Van Caro before Palo Mancaro. Yo, that's damning. No, but Palo, like, you know, it worked out. But, like, listen, college, College Beasley was supposed to be what Palo Mancair was. Different, man. That's one of the best college prospects ever. Now he's over one v-winning in the TNC.

And you know, he's cooking. He's killing it there. Everybody got a path. It's beautiful. Next up, we got Boris Diao and Jared Dudley. Oh, hell. You have to think. Don't be too disrespectful.

I'm not, but so the way that like, if you see a white player, you know it's going to be another white player. You just saw with Chris Bosch. You see him, lefty. Boris Diaz international. French. Right. French guy. Who's the French Jared Dudley?

Now, I will say you're heading towards the wrong direction. Take out nationality. Wait, take out what? Nationality. He's, no. Okay, so Jared Dudley, you don't think about straight game archetypes. You would only say Jared Dudley if he's a good defender. and has some length to him, a wing defender.

And you'd only say Boris D.L. If you could pass a little bit, I think. Yeah. So it has to be someone, Scotty Barnes. No, not Scotty Barnes. I'm thinking that's how a player. I'm thinking the type of SWEC, a point forward, Swiss Army knife type of guy. But it can't be too fast.

So, like, I think like Denny Avdia, but he's probably too fast for that. Yeah, he's not, he's too athletic. Yeah, not Denny. These are both some. You guys are getting warmer, though. I will say this player. These are both some unconventionally athletic looking guys. Like, who is?

Under the rim Hoopers Under the room for sure Who is like the poster boy of this Of round players in the modern era Generation you said round players He's not round he's not round But he is on athletic I don't I don't think anyone will quote

He's not bouncy he's not bouncy at all no He doesn't play at both room at all He's this generation Current player He's drafted like he is like post 2017 No he was drafted After 2017 Yeah

Okay yeah my bad okay I was like what Jared this is tough because it's got to be a wing size player and I only see Boris D.L.com so it's like a power forward mm-hmm so power forward

you are correct it is a power forward okay it is a power forward that can pass a little bit it's not Sangoon who are these boards out here he he in oh why am I blanking he is like the definition of this he's a poster boy of this era he's a poster boy this era

power for is that can pass the ball what what are you talking about he's a poster boy this is famous Josh Hart he was an all-star he was an all-star yep as a power forward who can pass that this should be easy then I should know yeah you guys are in hell you're guys gonna hate yourselves too I'm Simmons nope not Ben Simmons I give up who is this player give up I give up Dramon Green oh obviously Dremont Green you know what that's a damn good comparison too damn it Jared Dudley back then Dremont Green used to shoot like 38% from the three point line. He wasn't a sniper.

No, but he did have a little bit of all game. First of all, he was drafted way before 2017. Yeah, I know. You told us after. I said he was drafted before 17. No. Run the taste back. He did not say that.

I asked me, was he drafted post-2017? You said no after. You said no. Oh, my bad. So I was like, I stirred you guys the wrong way completely. I was like a straight modern players. All right. These guys all just fuck.

Okay. That's a good comparison, though. Maybe I would have got there without the help, but I don't know. Okay. Next player T-Mack and Dirk Kevin Durant Damn

Don't even say any more words That's clearly Kevin Rant Somebody with the size of Dirk And the shooting touch With the pure bag of T-Mack That can only be one player This comparison is just so Brain-breaking bro

And it only makes sense To be Kevin Durant It's apt He lived up to it Exactly Next up we got Kobe Bryant And Nick Young You could either be the best

The best shot chucker Or the worst shot chucker Sounds like Cam Thomas to me. Somebody compared Cam Thomas to Kobe Bryant before the draft. I would throw a baseball at them. Not a bad guess. It's not Cam Thomas, though. So this Shades of Kobe Bryant.

He was drafted after 2010. Yeah, Shades of Kobe. No. No, people weren't going to realize that Kobe Com because Devin Booker was overlooked. You'd have to be a high pick to get Shades of Kobe Con. He was indeed a high pick. You got to be top five at least. They get Shades and Nick Young.

You got to have some shooting audacity. to you. That means you can be a gunner. If it doesn't work out, you will be a high volume shooter if you're a role player. It's not Anthony Edwards. Nobody would compare him to Kobe. It's probably a two guard. You're getting, you got warm. You got warm. It's a, with the, with the aunt, he's one with Anthony Edwards? No, my description. He's probably, he's probably, also, spoiler. He's closer to Nick Young than he is to Kobe Bryant's. I'm sure. So who was a modern day Nick Young shot Chucker that had star upside, but ended up being more of a role player who shoots a lot. his career did not pan out at all when did he retire i couldn't tell you dude like i couldn't tell

you i think the last time i seen him play an NBA game was maybe like 20 20 20 or 2019 20 19 20 19 so it must be a early 2010s pick maybe or mid 2010s it was a early 2010s pick so 2011 deon waiters i will say he played in the western he got drafted by team in the western conference not deal waiters no damn same he's worse than deion waiters actually he's worse at dion i don't think you guys are going to get this He was drafted as a Minnesota Timberwolf. As a Minnesota Timberwolf. Johnny Flynn?

No, Shabazz Mohammed. Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah. I don't think of Shabazz Mohammed when I hear the name of Kobe Bryant. Yeah, exactly. Damn. These are tough today. I know, I know.

Mike Bibby and Steve Nash. Okay. Shades is the Trey Young. Close, but no. Not Luca Donge. It's got to be a small white probably. uh it's not re shepherd is that a trick no not reach okay no not real separate small white point guards so close to trey young it's probably going to be a small white

that's that sense of pattern yeah but the small whites even like with trey young there is garland no no if it's mike bibby he's probably not you probably only put mike bibby to say he's not the best shooter i think no not necessarily no not more of a slasher than a shooter it was it was in his game and this report here specifically called it out And I don't think it's the best comparison But it was a comparison made To Mike Bibi? Yes

Okay So it's probably more Steve Nash like Uh Obviously Darius Garland was compared to Steve Nash Trey Young compared to Steve Nash It's obviously a guard along that line Is it Tyre Taliburton? No, it's not Tyre Taliburton

Another passer I'm thinking about, yeah I'm trying to think about all these All the young guards It's not Luca, right? Don't only fix it on the passing Of course like Steve Nash is one of the greatest of all time But don't only fix it on the passing

So it's more of a shooting guard Yeah, what should we fix it on? Shooting, I guess. Fucking Damien Lillard? Close. Close to Dame. Yeah. Kyrie?

No. Damn. Colder. Kamba? No. Dhaler. Max? Way colder.

Way colder. Damn. Close to Dame. Okay. Close to Damian Lillard. Is it of that age group? Yes. Okay.

So it's a peer of Damian Lillard that probably plays like Damien Lillard. That's very rare. Yeah. Not a lot of them. That's why. We're in a rare era. right now. I think of Kyrie. I think of Kemba people that age demographic. They're rare names.

Rare names. Rare names. Much better than Kyrie and Kemba. Much better. Yep. Much better than Kyrie and Kemba. Yep. The current eaters are screaming through the screen right now. Is this James Hardin? No. What the fuck? Not James Hardin. Close though. What? It's not closer to Dame than James Hardin for sure. Closer to Dame than James Hart for sure. Closer to Dane. It's not not. What the? Close. So he's closer to Dame, much better than

Kyrie yes but closer to day that that's a weird okay ignore that because I think that that's confusing ignore them much better than Kyrie report okay but again if we're still just talking about peers of Damien Lillard in that in that time frame yeah like all the all the guards in the mid is this Steph Curry yeah there we go yeah much better than Kyrie closer to Dame than James Harding that's a ridiculous thing to say that makes it so difficult I'm just thinking about like positionally yeah yeah even that I so that makes it difficult as fuck I like this game That makes you think he's worse than Hardin.

Okay, interesting. Yeah, I don't know what they were cooking with Mike Bibby, but obviously, as a prospect, Curry wasn't curry. So, I guess it probably made more sense. What was the Mike Bibi? What was the Mike Bibi? Yeah, like, what they say about it? The way he moved, wasn't that fast?

It was more so, like, exactly, not the most explosive athlete. Yeah, okay. I guess I could see that at the time. Yeah. Yeah, okay. Not the worst comp. Next, we got Andre Ego Dala and Garrell Wallace. There's a goon.

This is a muscle head. This is a defender. Slaps the ground. Yes. You're right. Fucking defender. Drafted as that first. Lou Dorts.

That sounds like a fantastic comparison. Drafted as a defender. You said draft as that first. So did he expand off of that? He didn't really expand off of much. What year was he drafted? Give it a five year period. Any time between 2010 and 2015.

Okay. Justice Winslow? No. You're along the same lines. Okay. You're really close. Joshua Jackson. Josh.

Yeah. No. Damn. That's your on the line. when it comes to his failed prospects. Josh Jackson. Who are other wings that we thought was going to be the one?

Yeah. It can be. Jared Culver. No, not Jerry Culver. Mr. Bennett? Who? Nope,

not Anthony Bennett. Oh, it's not Cam Reddish. That's for damn sure. Defender. Someone was supposed to be a lockdown. But they put Iggy, so they could do a little bit with a ball in their hands was the goal for a ceiling. Yeah, man, that's just his wisdom.

But that, yeah. I will say he was a top three pick. Top three pick. Yeah. Top three pick. These 2010 drives. I don't know. Top three out of the top.

Top of my head. I'll top of your head is tough. Yeah. So, oh my goodness. 2014. Josh Jackson over close. Who's, who's the 2014 draft?

Wiggins. It's Wiggins. Is this Jbarri Park? No, Jabari Parker was a defender. Not Jabari Parker. It was 2013 draft. He is.

That's Bennett. He's Bennett. It's Bennett. Oh, is it Michael K. Gilchrist? Yes. So wildly far off. Yes.

Yeah. Oh, man. Man. No words. We don't have anything to say about him at all. Sorry, man. Tough scene. Next, we got David Thompson and Jerry West.

Michael Jordan. Woo. That's smooth. Yeah, this is too old. That's clear. How can you compare someone? Two grandpas. I do add to you know.

Damn, yeah. And honestly, if you're an 80s prospect and they compare you to Jerry West, they think you're the fucking one. They think you are going to be him. It worked out. And they're right. Got that all the money.

Good job. Next, we got Larry Johnson and Paul Milsap. Zion William Simpson. You. are close. It's not Zion, though. No, it's that position. Palo Ben, you're correct.

No, not Paulo. Okay, so it's a thick for... You're not comparing him to Larry Johnson, they're not thick. A thick for... Paul Millsap, so they're not that fast. Zion's too fast. You don't get Paul Miloseph comparison if you're quick. No, but the athlete part of it just comes in with Larry Johnson.

It's not Blake. You get a little bit of the mid-range game with Paul Mil-Milsap. And Paul Mil-Sap is like, that's a modern comp. You've got to be post-2015 to get a Paul-Mil-Sap comp. Exactly. It's post-2010. I'll say that. Okay, so it's in 2010, 2010, 2015.

Yep, you're correct. Content, context clues. Yep. Okay. Paul Millsap and Larry Johnson. He thought he had a little jumper to his game, but also he was big and just felt imposing. Big and felt imposing. Is this Jabari Parker?

Oh! No. Ah, damn. It's not Anthony Davis. He's too big. But if you... But Jabari Parker is a good comparison. Is this Anthony Bennett?

Yes, it is. He was. worse. I said, whoa, someone said Bill Simmons. I always said that, yeah. Giving Larry Johnson to Anthony Bennett was so disrespectful. So damn. He was not that athletic. He wasn't that much of him. I mean, he was like thick, I guess they said muscles. I mean, if you

watch his first like five minute table or something you're like, amen. Larry Johnson was explosive. He was rising in the air. Yeah, speedy meatball. Is that nickname? Yeah. No, that's what I call him. Next we got minor genobli and Paul Pierce. Lefty. Mm-hmm. It's a lefty? Yeah.

Oh, I was to say Luca Donchich. It's not a bad comparison At all Paul Pierce body type of Manu craft That's Lucidot's right there So I'm guessing It's along those lines

James Harden You got it Easy You got it Listen we struggle in the beginning But sometimes things come together James Harder himself Like compared himself to

James He compared himself to Mono Genoble And Paul Pierce Yeah that makes sense Yeah It's so weird Big body Moni That makes little sense

Yeah It's so rare to see a player Be so honest With himself like that Yeah Next we got Anthony Tolver And Jared Dudley again

Everyone we look at Jared Daly. I know. This range into your player as well. Eric Peskell. I got you guys in hell. Eric Peskell. No, no, no, no. I won't do you guys like that.

Anthony Tolliver's crazy. What do you mean? You won't do? Anthony Tolliver is on the screen. He's a great player. What do you mean? We're teaching history right now. He's some good years.

He was ahead of his time. He has a good years to the Timberwolves, right? I think yes, we had some good years for them. Yeah. He had key good years on the Timberos and the Blazers. Anthony Tolliver, just the ultimate role player. If you're getting Anthony Tolliver comparison, you're probably like an early stage stretch four.

I was, I don't, I actually don't remember when he was drafted at all. Maurice, get that info. Al-Farukamino. No. He was not, he's not a defender.

Not a defender. Yeah. The one that gave him Jared Dudley. What the hell? So, again, he's also, think about like an older stage of Jared Dudley. So clearly he's bad-bodied a little bit. That's probably part of it.

Bad-bodied. He could shoot. Bad-body bucket. a bad body who can shoot wow that could be a lot of players yep they call amyretich i don't know

georgias niang yes that's a great georgeish meang you guys are just focused on body shaming why is that doing yeah listen it never steers as wrong it's my first one

congratulations that's your first one yeah by body shaming what type of dude are you man I've been going to just picking my spots. You've been carrying him this whole time. When you watch this back, I'm saying, you're going to be like,

wow, he didn't say anything. He was quiet. He's twilling his fucking thumbs. And then I say, pick a bad bill bitch. And he's like, George's Dean. Fattie. George's D. Damn.

Oh, my God. Okay. Next we got James Hardin and Gilbert Arenas. Okay, so James Hardin. Killian Hayes. No, not Killian Hayes. It should be a lefty. It's going to be kind of modern.

Not lefty. It is modern. Damien Lillard? Oh, it's modern. Yeah. Darius Garland. No, not Darius Garland. Oh, wait a minute.

He's too small. So obviously he's not the dribble shooter. That's what he's profiled as. It was post 2015. I'll say that. And he's a big body. Mm-hmm. We'll look that as super dynamic guard.

But I don't, it's not, it's not at the Edwards. Because if it was, they'd pick somebody bouncy. Yeah, definitely. Because he was athletic. It's not, you said it's not lefty, so it's not R. R.J. Barrett. Super dynamic guard. And he's got to be kind of big.

You wouldn't get a comparison with this if you're below 6-2. You're absolutely right. He is a little big. He got some size. DeAngelo? No, not Delo. Good God,

no. Did I say Luca Dodgitch? You did not, and it's not Luca. Okay. That also that, good God. I know.

That was going to be stressful. This was where, dynamic guard. Yeah. Post-20. Again, you don't get James Harrod. Guard and Comson, unless you're a top pick. So he's got to be top 10 at least. Yeah, he was viewed as like the next, like, generational guard.

Cade Cunningham? Not Cade, you are getting a little closer. Oh. If he's like generational guard, like, drafted before 2020. Generational guard drafts before 2020. It's not John Moran, 2019. Nope. 2018, it's not Trey or Luca.

Mm-hmm. 2017. Is this Lonzo Ball? No. Mark Hill Falls. Yes. Hot as hell, yes. Mark Loltz.

What a tragedy. Yeah, man, you know what? It wouldn't have been a bad copy either. They'd go to rain his ceiling with in reach. Yeah, man. Can you believe he was fighting for his life, finding for a job this year, bro? Yeah, the Sixers should be arrested for their crimes.

The Sixers or the motorcycle incident, whatever it is, it's a damn shame. They traded Jason Tatum for a marketer. Sheesh. Next, you got Chuck Hayes and Metal World Peace. Yo, shut the fuck out my face. Shout out Chuck Hayes. So, Isaiah Stewart.

No, good guess. That's fair. You're along is the lines. He is positionally similar to Meta World War. Mark. Oh, Mantras Harrell. No. He's a three.

He's a three. Oh, the word. This is Chuck Hasten coming to the equation. He's just a rebounder. He can do that. He can do that. And he's somewhat of a enforcer. He's in the league today, still too.

Barely, but he's still in. James Johnson. No, you're like on the line of just like, what type of players could you pick up for a mill who can just like, PJ Tucker. No, you're on the line. Okay. You're close.

You're close. Who are these veteran locker room present enforcers? The threes? Threes. So he's an old guy. He's an old three. I'm trying to go through every team in my head and it's not working right now. This is tough.

So he's an enforcers. So he's probably in the headlines for. At this point, if he's old, all he's there for is muscle. Yeah. Muscle and whatever's left of shooting that he can provide. So think of the PJ Tucker's. So this sounds like we're describing PJ Tucker exactly fucking T is who are the other PJs is he on Miami heat I bet he's in the Miami heat no he's not He's not in Miami he actually he's in the Western Conference but the last time he was like semi-relevant was in the East

Mm hmm he's in the West so he's just chilling he's just collecting checks right now. Yeah he's selling collecting checks The other Jordan type vibes. Yeah All right so Western Western Conference Lakers don't have Trevor Reese is retired right Trevor Reza, yeah, he's retired. He's retired. Yeah, Trevor, he's, you're along the lines of. I know. I understand the lines of along.

Yeah, I completely, I can put these enforcers. Like, the Lakers don't have one. Clippers don't have one. Blazes. You're thinking about these teams, he probably didn't play much this year. Yeah, exactly. Think about, like, the worst team along in that side.

Worst team in the West would be one of the worst. It's like the Pelicans. In that, in that Laker region. Kings. Mm-hmm. Who's an enforcer on the? the Kings. How much Kings basketball did you watch this year?

Hey man, who is this? Jay Crowder. That picture looks insane. Yo, that's why the comparisons are there, man. This is probably the first time you've seen Jay Crowder all year. I can't recall him in the King's Jersey. Bossman 99. That picture looks crazy.

You are being celebrated today. Those sleeves do not compliment him well. Hey, man, shout to him, man. He's out here feeding his family. Exactly. Jay Crowder had some good years, man. Yeah, he was a really good player. We need more Jay Crowders in the league.

I agree. And that's it. And that's the last one. You guys did horrendous. We did okay. There's a lot of names with a mixed bag. The range is crazy. From LeBron James to.

Yeah, that was quite the array of players. I know. The next thing we're going to do. I'm going to tell you an NBA player and you had to guess where the ringer ranked them in their top 100 players of 2025. All right. They updated this list like two weeks ago. So it's like during the playoffs with a. all the reactions of the playoff basketball and mind,

you tell me where you think they rank this player. Are you agenda ready? I am. Let's push them. Always. Okay. First name, Shea Gildo's Alexander. Have to have him no less than three.

They might have them two. I think they have them two. Yes, I think they would have Yokic one, Shea two. That's exactly what they have. Yolkish is one. Shea is at two. Makes sense. And then they have Yonis at three.

Yeah, that would make sense. And that's obviously a debate. I mean, Yonis, like, many people will just like, default to Yannis because he's a better two-way player and he's Yonis one the best players of all time. I don't think it's crazy to push Shay above him, but like that's a real hard debate. I don't know where I fall. It is. I think if you had this, if you had this conversation last postseason, given like everything that Shay was doing, I know he went out in the second round, but he was still hooping

and you hadn't seen Yannis in the playoffs for two years. That's fine. Yannis came in, team suck. But Yonis is like, I'm getting mine. Killed the Pacers. Right. I'm scoring 40 tonight. The only thing that makes it hard is because Yonis isn't quite the defender he once was, but the defensive ecosystem is also kind of trash now. So hard to gauge, like, if you put him on a team with great defenders, if you get back to DPOI level or not. But I don't think he is that level defender,

so I think going to Shea isn't crazy. Give him a chat hungry, see what happens. Exactly, exactly, literally. Okay, so that one's easy. We started there. You know where the agendas are going. Next player. Tyrese Halliburton.

They updated this list two weeks ago? I'll tell you exactly, they updated it. That'll swing everything. They actually updated it four days ago. Oh, no, my bad, my bad. Look at the wrong number. June 4th. So, yeah, 15 days ago.

Okay. Okay. So this is post. He had all his game winners. This is post. This was before game one, right? Yes. But still three game winners in the playoffs just knocked off.

He can't be anything lower than 15. I think he's 11. I'm going 13. 13. 11. So you guys think he's pushing top 10? Yeah. For the ringer, absolutely.

Oh, you ask the ringer. He's number seven. Hoo. Damn. Number seven in the world right now, one above Donald Mitchell at 8, which I also think is quite generous. of DeMitch. What?

That's what? D. Mitch 8's crazy. That's generous. Yeah. Jaylon Brunson at 9. So Halliburton right about Jaylon Brunson, which isn't insane. I think it's a bit much. The D. Mitch at 8 over Brunson is what.

This whole thing, if you move you down like five like five tiers or five like paces or whatever. And we're talking about like 11, 12, 13 or something like that, then it would feel a little bit Halliburne at 7 is too much. So I'm guessing they're indexing more to people that did stuff in the playoffs. like people that didn't make the playoffs are going to push down, which to me isn't like logically consistent, but if that's what you're going to do,

for the playoffs, he's the seven best point in the world. That makes sense, I suppose. A weird way of gauging the best players in the world, I think. It's like a useless way to gauge it. But if that's what you're going to do, I suppose I see the logic. Okay.

Anthony Edwards is six, step is five. Okay, that would make sense. So, again, they're glazing a little bit. There's a clear tier. I can understand their standard. But I do think what y'all said, 11, 13, like, I'm ready to say Tyrese on.

that level i think that's fine wow i'll probably rank him at 12 and if we when we do what we do our list in december jason tatum damn well okay so he got hurt didn't have he had a really good first round series there's no way a bill simmons leg companies having tatum outside the top 15 we'll go 15 you think he's think he 15 is damn why you put him so low yeah 15 is kind of low for we all think he's top five or top six just just because of injury I think he's damn think he might be four if they're not doing injury then i'll i'll go with you yeah it's a wide it's a wild range he's number 10 damn yeah which again he just got hurt so clearly they're reacting to the playoff and it's like they're doing this like you earned your spot in the playoffs and

tatum obviously got hurt so he couldn't earn it still you don't nobody thinks doth mitchell is better than jason tatum what it is no one thinks that nobody nobody believes that shit it's a bit much okay what a way to gauge players yeah again but we understand what they're for the thing they're doing i i see it think it's bullshit what have you done for me recently anthony edwards oh i already showed you anthony d'am i'm going to tell you too much jalen williams ooh he had a lot of lows no but the game seven that he had going into the finals that could raise the perception of him i think he's 19 or 17 i'll go 17 yeah 17 you guys are just a little bit too low he's ranked number 20 oh no so we're too high

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, too low for a number, yeah, so they're wrong. A little bit too high, he's number 20. And you know what? I feel like this is fair. Jaylon Brown's 21. I've been saying for years since last year, I've been called Iglazer because I said I think it'll be better than Jaylon Brown or about, I think the verbage I've used is about the same quality of player Jailen Brown. And I'd rather have Jada for small reasons. Then next to each other makes sense to me.

That is, that's as fair as it gets. Yeah, good job. Okay. Yeah, he is the quasi. It's like the perfect version of second option wing that can do two-way stuff for you. That's him. That's Jaylon Brown. After game five, if he is not, listen, if he's not top 12 to these guys after game five, their whole ranking is.

Oh, man, they're going to update it and give him number six. Exactly. Okay, Palo Bancaro. Okay, had a very strong first round series. Not kind of. He had a big points per game number, but the efficiency was quite bad. We don't care about that. But do the ringer care about that?

Probably. Oh, man, I think the ringer might. Do you think that they think that he's better than the J-Dub or? is like you get finals tax and finals push they're gonna I think they might shit on him they might say he's 25 20 we'll go 22 he is exactly number 22 on this list who okay which I mean again they're they're heavily indexing on the on the playoffs that makes sense to me he wasn't efficient that first round he played a tough defense had to get a lot of shots up it was not super pretty but he got his numbers it's 22 it's a little bit too much playoff indexing for me

That's his whole list, man. But even then, I think we rank him around here in our last list. But, like, and I get it. I see Pascal Seaccombe there. I'm just like, he should be way higher than, yeah, than 23, absolutely. So this whole list is just invalid. But also, we're doing playoff indexing. They had Steph at 5, and he missed the whole second round, basically.

Yeah, you know, I mean. Yeah, you're right. It's super inconsistent, considering, like, Tatum was where he was 10. Yeah. And he missed, like, right. Yeah. And I don't know. I mean, that's going to be a good debate all summer, especially the Thunder

win which by the time we're recording this before game seven me game six so maybe the thunder everybody won jadab versus palo for this year alone is a pretty interesting debate because obviously one's a first option which everybody in NBA discourse says first option automatically makes you better automatic makes you top 15 or whatever whereas jab is not that but he's closer to being amazing at his role than palo is at his role right now you know so like that's a quintessential debate that you're going to hear all the next year when he comes to again list of players who have a lot of pressure on him. Pallow and Cairo is towards the top of that list. I think it's not crazy to say J-Dub's

and better, like, right now in the playoffs, but Pallow, we all think Pallow will be better. Yeah. So I think most people just project that what we know Pallow will be to what he is now. But I think 22 is fine for now. But next year, he's going to be top of team next year for sure. Assuming growth. Okay, next name, Trey Young.

Oh, they hate these. Famously, they hate him so much. He's, I don't know, 40. He's, I'm won. 67. 38 he's 33 they don't hit him as much as you think okay john moran 34 though right next to each other that's disrespectful to trae oh wow that's disrespectful to trayon you think you think so you next to jama right you think zarmor is that much worse i think no you don't come on i i think

treyong should be spots ahead of of jama 32 is bam 31 so you know the neck that's disrespectful to all of them i haven't subonis at 31 well keep mind there's a lot of good players on the NBA so I feel like this isn't that crazy hmm no like I think what we did our top 30 I think we either left Tray Young off or he'll put him like right into it after this year me and my index after June 4th I'm putting Tray Young several

spots ahead of John Moran okay okay okay and how I currently feel about both of them interesting even though John Murray had the good strongest end to the season when they fired dude yeah I think I still I still like Trey Young a little bit more yeah considering the injuries I can understand it with how your mindset

is when it comes out true if you get hurt Are you there or are you not there? Yeah. If you get injured, Donovan wants you dead. Next up, John Moran already reveals you. Al-Prince and Goon. This is interesting. He had a strong pre-off one to me, but...

He showed you can hang in the playoffs for sure. He did 28? I think he was 26. You guys are doing... You guys are doing a little too much. Too much to play in your chair. 42? 36. Damn.

No, I can't have him. 36 insane gung and uh what's his name sabonis up there nah i mean i don't think 36 is insane maybe sabonish should be like 34 he should probably be below jaw listen he got packed up in the first round he had a couple of bad games to close it out like it wasn't it wasn't the greatest show in yeah by sangoon like that's that's fine it's completely fine him him being below john tray is completely fine okay no he he showed he can hang

defensively is not really what i meant he's no longer defensive liability yeah but you know we still got to see him have his best offensive season and his best defensive season at the same time. So another guy like Palo that I think we can assume he'll be pretty high next year, but 36 is fine for this year, I think. If you can get the combo of those two, I mean, that's top 20. There's a lot of players in the league, but yeah. You're pushing if you can get that from him.

I think that's top 26. Yeah, something like that. Yeah, he's top 30 for sure. But to get the top 20, he has to develop like a real strong three, I think. I think he has to be a stretch five for him to be top 20 level. Just because even though he is way better defensively, he's not like Wemby. You know, it's not going to be ever like a,

game-changing thing. Lamello ball. Man. You want to talk about some hate. Divisive. Devisive as hell. Yeah. I'm scrolling.

I can't even find him. Forty. I mean, yeah, if Lamello's not in the 40s, he's either 40. John Moran was what? 34.

34. So he has to be much lower than that. I would say like 44 for a little bit more. 50. Ooh, Moe is very close. Damn. He is 49. Jalen Johnson is right above him.

Yeah. Yeah, all right. Now, that's a disgusting debate. Who are you taking Jalen Johnson or Lamello ball? Nobody's ever said those words before. I know. The first person in human history. That's going to sound disgusting to a lot of people.

But I don't think it's crazy for this year. It's not crazy at all, considering all the things that Jalen Brown or Jalen Johnson does do. But also, they're both super injury prone. So they belong in this tier. But also, if we free Lamello and put him in a better position, he'll be higher than 49. That's for damn sure.

He can get the top 35 at the least. Even if you're lower on him, like I've kind of been a little jaded. towards La Mello this year where I'm like questioning if the ceiling is quite as high as I once did. Maybe I'm not ever going to say he's been top 25 or whatever the number is. He can damn sure be top 35.

Yeah, next season I believe in my mind is Lamele's like last chance to be like stamped as like an elite level NBA pro. Unless he does some like craziest shit and has an insane second half of his career turnaround or whatever. But for now it's looking steep. He's been he was in league for like five years now, bro, so far.

Yeah. Five years and none of the show for it. I don't know what we call that? Good sample size. Yeah. Zach Levine 70 I don't know

70 yeah I'm going 68 hold on I can't find him he got he's been scoring for dumb long

88 he's 68 damn how did you get that right he's been scorn he's going for dumb long holy shit

demar this is lazy they said demar Levine yeah 60 something you put in my next each other you know what

that's fair too though that's very fair I don't know if Damar's better than Levine I'd rather have been. But clearly they both think they're like mid-tier starters.

Yeah. Damn. Zach Levine just got shipped over there to die. Sacramento Kings. That's crazy because he had a great year in the Bulls. He was shot making. He was crazy. Went to the Kings.

Nobody cared anymore. They really made Bulls West. It wasn't only for that damn contract. Ooh. 92. What the hell? Not where you would rank him. The ringer.

I'm just saying like he hasn't played all year long. It's clearly indexed towards the playoffs. He hasn't participated in these, in these playoffs. He played a very, you know, again, limited amount of games. I'm going 92. 45. 84, 84. Dude, how do you know everything?

He's 84. What the fuck? Yo, he works sort of ringing out. That's what you were doing on his off time. You made this right here. You put him there. What the hell? 84, like at this point, you're just hating.

Either don't put him on your list at all or gauging when he's on the court. There's no way you think when he's on the court. but there's 83 players better. You know who I know you don't believe that? I like these guys, man. You know how I know you don't believe that shit? Because Christian Brown is the 83. Oh, hell no.

That's cool. At that point, just don't rank Joel and Bid. Like, what are you talking about? At that point, just... 82 is the Andre Hunter. It just keeps on getting worse. What the fuck? Hey, shut the fuck up.

Just getting 81! I got to shut up for real. Josh! Oh my God! It keeps getting worse. Dude! The higher you get it keeps here worse. Just fucking hard.

No, I believe it's. No, you don't. I believe this Oh my god What the fuck Lou Dort Well the Jimmy gets Wait Lou Dort better than Josh Hart

Oh my god I guess Ludort probably is big Josh Hart Yeah yeah Oh my god bro But yeah like what are we talking about Just don't range it on the beat Yeah this is not even try

That's funny Honestly this reason is why Whenever we do our rankings I don't account for injury at all Because you had to like The logic makes no sense It's so just like Vise base Like you get hurt a lot

I like you better than Nasreid sure It's so random to just decide where that line is. Don't rank them. Not do it. It does nothing for you. Paul George. It does a lot for me.

He might be like 97. I'm going 98. Yeah. I'll go with you 97 for Paul George. Hey, I can't find Paul George. He's calling forever. His wrist hurting. Number 90.

Yeah. Damn. Payton Pritchard. Yeah. Paul George is the conversation. Oh, Tori. Oh, no. Taris, not going to understand.

He's amazing. I love him. Paul George, you are in painting picture conversations now. What the hell is going on? Boston's, we have curry at home. Oh, my goodness. Oh, man, they thought they were cooking with that. That's insane.

And that's the last one. Guess who's number 900 on the list, the last player? The last player? I was going to say Derek White. I'll let you know this. Jalen Green is 98. Jailing Green is 98. Okay.

Bradley Beal. He is Bradley Beal. What the fuck? You know, it's funny. of it sucks like every game today except for this one he does everything what the hell you said jaling grad just started thinking about evolution yeah who's a little bit worse than jayling green that bradley bill is still better than jane green i'm sorry he's the he's the one where it's it's so clear bradley bill is like everybody recognizes the talent the sons don't like them fans don't like him

media doesn't like him but it's like he could still score i guess i guess i guess i guess That's crazy You could be on the list Yeah, you could be in the list Number 99's Jordan Pool All right, that makes sense Jayland Derry 97 Herb Jum

Herb Jones 96 come on he didn't play for a He didn't play for a year What's why I put him on the list Tumani respect Mitch Okay Mitch didn't play this year though Vucevic is so random

Hey man don't look for logic in this list It's crazy But okay That's the end of that Next thing we're gonna do We're gonna go over to hoopgoatcom site we like to frequent

To play his mini games They have a lot of mini games What type of stuff we do in our videos we're going to play their start bench cut game you guys know what this works three players got to pick which one to start which one to bench which one to cut interesting first off we got chris weber victor wembenyama and sean kemp i'm these are very different names very i'm cutting sean kemp i think yes we're doing that and we're also only because i'm here to push agendas we're starting wemby we're cutting we're benching chris webber and then

we're going do should we should we bench wemby just because he's so young and hasn't gotten to like it's piquette whereas we've seen like we've seen these other guys make all NBA teams but wemby's wemby so i feel fine benching him and not cutting him like he's the best defender here by fucking far already well that's that skill alone i'd want to start him because he's the best defender yeah and also the best shooter here too i don't want to keep him you know he he was he might could have been on all-nbba pace this year if he didn't get hurt yeah i think that's the biggest swing factor okay but do we want to okay so let's say we'll start wendy just because we're young and stupid and we like to have our players on the list chris we're ever or shan

Yeah, obviously athletic anomaly or the guy that can be more of a offensive hub. Chris Weber. You don't think of Chris Weber. Yeah. Okay. Listen, he's been MVP ballots. I don't know, Sean Camp has. I can't remember.

48% of people agree with us. That's how you operate. And listen, that's because a lot of young people are voting on us list as well. I feel like we maybe should have started Chris Weber, but you can't go wrong. No, we did the right thing. Okay. Fair enough. Jason Tatum, Kawhi Leonard, Ray Allen.

Ray Allen, I'm sorry. Didn't cut the fastest way. Appreciate you. You're a legend of the game. One of the best shooters of all time. cut. You're getting cut like an umbilical cord. Are we doing right now or Peak? Well, Ray Allen is in the league right now, so we've got to go

Peak. Peek, Kauai. Not a conversation. This is quite simple. Yeah, it's super simple. Starting Kauai, Jason Tan, welcome to the bench. 54% of people agree with us. I can understand why you want to start Jason Staten him because of longevity reasons or whatever, but he just

tore his Achilles and God knows what he's going to look like. I can't understand it whatsoever if you want to start Jason Tainan Wai Laird. There's zero part of me that understands where you're coming from. Yeah, Kauai's a machine, one of the most efficient players ever from everywhere on the court. Yeah, we can pick multiple versions of Kauai of different forms that are better than best version of Jason Tatum. I agree. We can go 2017, where he's 2016, where it's DPOI, and he's a great two-way player.

We'll go 2019, where he's the crazy shotmaker, 2021, where he was playmaking. He has variations of himself, and I'm picking over Jason Tatum. Yeah. Darren Williams, Kaye Cunningham, Tyrese Halliburton. This is very, very interesting. Interesting. Kate's getting cut. Easy.

That part. That part's cleared. All great players, K's getting cut. Easy. Now, this Tyrese run makes it difficult. You really do have to give Tyrese credit because to get to a finals is very, very hard. And to get to a finals after making a conference finals. But these are real.

And the IST finals. We'll forget that. Oh, my. Oh, you're right. God damn it. All he does is win. Tyrese start, Darren Williams cut. Damn.

Shout out Darren Williams, man. But yeah, I mean, that doesn't feel too bad. to say yeah obviously Darren Williams has a benefit of his crew being over so he has a stacked accolades the Tyrese is in there yet but I don't think it's great to say this year's Tyrese is side conversation who do you think is Dan Williams modern day comparison

okay okay okay okay okay okay Pascal Seaccombe Germain O'Neill Lamar Odom Lamar stay out Lamar stay out of here sorry appreciate you one of the best Alstar is never making an all-star game before

your time one of the best players never making an all-star game you're great. We've got two all-stars on the list. This is super easy. Yeah, this is obvious. Pascal Seacquins is the best player here. Easily.

Shout out, Jabino, Neil. Shout out, that's the end of the sentence. Also, that picture in the middle looks like Moe when he was bald. That looks exactly like Moe. Yeah, Seacom is different.

Two different level of two-way player. Yeah. Oh, Chad Holmgren, Porzingis, or Brooke Lopez? That is the exact order. Yeah, this is so simple. A couple years ago, Brooke, you would have had a good argument. Right now, you moved.

Like my grandpa, cut. K.P. Fitch. Like family man, time. Wait. Their only conversations like, would you rather have Brooke over someone like KP? Maybe. Apparently the conversation for people was KP versus Chet.

35% of people won't with KP. That's insane. That's pure, like, reputation. KP was damn around unplayable for the entirety of the playoffs. Yeah. That is in second round. People are a year behind on where KP should be talked about. Evan Mowbly, Bam out of bio, Alperin, Sangoon.

again and might be in one two three yeah Evan Mobley is just broken to different talks here this guy is going to be in like top 15 players in the league talk pretty soon yeah yeah and Bam you know listen we knew we knew last summer that that was kind of the last summer that we were gonna have

conversations about Bam being like a top three center top four with the way he started off the year two so bad decimated his so his PR so that with that being said is it a debate between Sangoon and Evan Moe and Bam for bench no I still think I would take bam Because I still think even if they're not the best player Having a player like BAM on your team

Especially at the 5 would be more beneficial To more teams than not I agree Okay, bam on the bench, sing goon cut The defense moves me 38% of people agree with us Damn, of course we're right Yeah, simple as simple as that

Jason kid, Russell Westbrook or Steve Nash All right, so who's getting cut I'll keep my opinion on myself Okay, so No, I won't Russell Westbrook's getting cut I'm sorry Or Jason Kip If you

So if you want to go talent I understand the argument for Russ If you're just like he's better And more things We can all agree that Steve Nash is getting started That's super common I mean Jason Kidd or Steve Nash

Is the debate I suppose for some people I'm fine saying Steve Nash I'm taking Steve Nash We'll go Steve Nash Okay Go Steve Nash I don't know if I 100% Believe that like every time

But two MvPs is two MvPs as well like I do I do want to give him that I think so kid is an interesting one because obviously we know how he feel about Russ and the downsides of his game and how that makes it you know hard to win at the highest level compared to players that are as good as him you know if kid was in the modern NBA maybe he'd have similar issues also not the strongest shooter higher IQ score though so maybe he wouldn't be quite as like he wouldn't be as in love with threes as Russ has been yeah no there's an argument for Russ I guess I don't want to dismiss Russ entirely It's not like It's like you said that the talent argument Would go to Russ Production-wise

Even then Jason Kitt's talented Carrying teams To finals Yeah Jason The teams Jason Kitt took the finals Weren't stacked They were good team Not to say he was carrying bullshit

But it was like He was the engine That's tough This is so hard For the purpose Of team building let's bench let's bench Jason Kidd

because he's most similar to Steve Nash and the offense can run this similar and we will cut Russell Westbrook and he can go on to another team

and do his thing 6% of people agree with you yeah wow wait six I don't that number's messed up 35

wouldn't no oh almost nobody voted this way wow interesting so most people put Steve Nash Russell Westbrook's Jason Kidd

the second most people put Russ on top but most people 75% of people put Jason Kidd last I think the youth forgets about Jason Kidd They know about Steve Nash

They're the double MVP So they have to respect that I don't think they remember Jason Kidd Not those early years especially You're correct When you think about Jason Kidd They think about like I guess 2011 in those Knicks years

People aren't thinking about the 2001 finals I mean the 2002 finals No Unbelievable That's the year right It was 2002 Yeah 2002 and 2003

Yeah Kason Wallace Tim Hardaway Jr. Josh Hart. Such a random ass. What? This is fun. I'm starting Case & Wallace.

I want that defender off the bench that can hit a corner three. If Josh Hart was a consistent shooter, he would be started. But I feel better about Kaysen that way. I agree. Tim Harder Jr. You belong on the bench. On the bench. Oh, my bad.

He's getting cut. He's going to cut. Yeah, he hasn't. I was going to say, we haven't got to respect Josh Hart that much. No, no, no. And obviously most people put Josh Hart first because he's Josh Hart. He's a famous guy. They don't know about Casein Wallace like that.

Okay. Wow. 8%. I'm happy no one started to, Tim Hardway. That's it. But this is this is correct. I'm not going to lie. I understand the Russell Westbrook one. You can disagree. I understand the viewpoint there.

I think it'll, this one's ridiculous. I think it'll be fine if you wanted to start Josh Hart for like playmaking purposes and rebounding purposes too. But the shooting for me just... It really does depend on your team construction. I think, let's think about the Knicks. If they swapped out Casey and Walsh to Josh Hart, would they get better? I think they would get worse.

They get five out spacing. They get a better defender. Yeah, they get a better defender. and a better shooter he can cut he can run in transition he just can't pass he just can't dribble and like it's not like you really want josh hard doing that anyways for the nix he does push the pace he does it's valuable and he dies for every ball he does case and walls do that probably he has some heart too but that is debatable i suppose oh larry hughes franz vogner bradley biel larry shat out larry hughes he made an all-star game i don't know why you're in the conversation actually actually franz isn't an all-star so let me not disrespect larry hughes

Wow, this is such a win Yeah, like, does peak Bradley Beal get started? I think what's Pink Bradley Beal? I mean, he ever's 30. Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's, it's still hard to do.

It's still hard to do. And now that, that was a couple years ago where it was still respectable. Okay. We could start him. We'll start Bradley Beal. Franz. Listen, man, that 18% is loud. Early season, Franz, man, we ranked him as a top 30 player.

He was on top of the world and then his three-point shot fell off again. struggled to be a second option again because of that I want to bench him but I I don't know Larry Hughes is a one-time all-star I think so it's not like he's like bona fide it's not like Franz it's bona fide either

all right fuck it we'll cut Franz start Larry Hughes I don't really give a fuck with that one Paul Millsap Demontissa bonus Andre Carolinko I'm starting Keralinko I'm Paul Milsap had several good years for Liann

but you cannot forget about Paul Milsap Carlinco was like one of the best role players of all time. Did he sneak into a couple All-Star games? I can't remember. I don't think he did either.

Paul Millsap did. He was like a good passing hub, can score in the post. We can do a good defender as well. We can do that. Like I personally, I would start Kierlinco, but if you guys want to start Milsape. Kirilliko is a one-time All-Star, 2004.

I just know that on our team, Sabonis is getting cut. Oh, for sure. All right. A little bench Kirillinko. Cut, Zamanta Sabonis. Zero presented. the fuck

this one this one's super split there's no consensus here obviously people are gonna put some bonus first because points rebounds assist they love them I understand that but yeah if you're trying to build a series contender you need a defender at that position I'm very case honestly I mean simonis is way more talented than Kirillenko

so I guess that's not crazy we are being disrespectful to some extent but I don't feel that bad about it I don't feel bad either I don't feel bad at all I'm just happy Paul Millsap's face is solidified okay let's see one more these games why not uh let's do a blind tier list all right we're just on hoopgo having a good time at this morning we're just surviving okay so you guys know what this works we got a blind tier list

got to put one two three and four players across these tiers don't know the category first name last time we did this we go oh the chat did this actually yeah and they got screwed first name Patrick Ewing tier two or three we're starting off with legends yeah and so it's like it's very random i have no idea who's coming next i think tier three is safe tier three is probably comfortable yeah let's go through maybe we'll regret it i want to put him tier two but that's fine we can love with that shack don't feel bad let's go too just hold out in case like a top five player of all time around here if magic or larry's here i feel good i will say these are two big men so far so it might be best bigs of all time i can hold out for kareem or hakeem yeah there's a

couple of wilt maybe we feel okay about that yeah okay damy lillard okay it is not big man i feel good i feel good dame next to patrick ewing i feel completely fine about that Just a guard version of Apache U. Yeah, they're both One of the better players that couldn't accomplish anything because their peers are amazing. Yeah.

Yeah, there you go. Luca Donchich. Well, fuck. This is awkward. Not Shaq level. He's better than Dame, but you can probably put him on Dame's level, right? You can put him on Dame's level for now,

yeah, but this could really bite us in the ads if you don't utilize that last year. Yeah, Tier 4, it's going to be tough. Oh, Marys thought, there's going to be tough. Tier 4. Needed that. Needed that. Needed that.

Needed that. Needed that. Tier 4. We're back in it. We're back in it. Chris Paul. Ah. The last time we got fucked

to put Chris Paul too high. Do you want to put him next to Shaq or put him to your four? We're tier four is too low. Tier four. Let's put him. Tier four is too high. But if it's tier two, we could live with that.

He's better than Dame, better than Patrick Ewing. But tier two is like goat level. Tier one's goat level, maybe. Maybe Shaq is a little too low. We have to go too. It would be to put Chris in the tier with Blake Griffin and Amari rather than

we're choosing to fuck ourselves. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. And if we go tier two, chance it works if you go tier four it's obviously bad i don't like that i don't like it either but i don't like either option larry bird this is why i didn't like that god damn it ah man tier one that's fine that's fine okay scotty barns obviously tier four d rose tier four look at that chris ball you should have been tier two we nailed it perfectly we did it all right shout out man

i think we did this exactly right this is the best one that we've ever done i wouldn't tweak anything Yeah. Oh, yeah. As of now, yeah, Chris Paul definitely deserves to be tier two. There's no debate here at all. Yeah. I guess you can debate Shack versus Bird if you'd like, but I'm fine with this. Yeah.

Wow, not even that too, you know. Yeah, I like this. Well, yeah, the debate for me was Luca versus Chris Paul. Yeah. If you're going at their peak, that's fair. That's a debate. Yeah. That's the only thing.

But outside of that, I'm cool. Yeah. And that's like a debate that like you can't get mad at saying Chris Paul is better, you know? Yeah. No, I don't hate it. Yeah, Lucas career is still pending. Look at that. We nailed it.

Again, I don't even know how I fully feel about that, about that combo. I haven't mentally had that combo. Yeah, I've never thought about that. I mean, off the top of my head, I do think Luca will pass him up by the time his career is over. Just because, like, the page is on. But if he was to go on the same trajectory that he went on, like, last year, I don't know. It's hard. If he's cooked.

I think he's still going to, he may end up passing Chris Ball just because of all the legendary moments and the numbers. He's five first-team all-MBAs a lot. Yeah. Chris Ball is also 12 times all NBA. So it's a pretty high board. But to have five at this point already have a finals appearance. You're pacing. Has Chris Paul?

Yeah, Chris Holden to the finals. Yeah, on 21. Yeah. Blue and tool. You remember when he said he had an addiction to go into the finals? And we cured him. Love to see it. Fighting addiction one day at time.

With that being said, if you're still here, comment, we're beating addiction. Comment, we cured Chris Paul. Comment that. Let's tell you we care Chris Paul. We hear Chris. Still here. Check out TD3 summer. merch you know you guys see it check the link in our description the top line is our merch link

go to it click the tab that says t3 summer collection check it out there some cool stuff on there yeah man jump or drown i'll see you later