The Deep 3 Podcast - We Ranked Every Power Forward In The NBA | Ep. 153

Episode Date: August 8, 2025

Today we rank the NBA's best power forwards #nba check out the TD3 merch: https://the-deep-3-shop.fourthwall.com/ Listen on Spotify!: https://open.spotify.com/show/3elbbqVumwqz8wlIdknsLW Listen on Apple Podcasts!: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-deep-3-podcast/id1657940794 Follow us on TikTok!: https://www.tiktok.com/@thedeepthree Follow us on Instagram!: https://www.instagram.com/thedeep3podcast/ Isaac's twitter: https://twitter.com/byisaacg Mo's twitter: https://twitter.com/Mojo99_ Donnavan's twitter: https://twitter.com/Dsmoot3D 0:00- Intro 4:10- 30-26 18:18- 25-21 33:12- 20-16 43:00- 15-11 54:35- 10-6 1:11:33- top 5 1:29:05- tiktok time Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

there may be times where we have to take a break where we have to, you know, differ from our regularly scheduled contents where we have to do something outside the boss because an opportunity arises. And that was last week when we had the opportunity to do a Tyrese max interview. But I can come here to say

that no matter what comes up, no matter what distractions take place, we will always be back the next week to rank something. Ranking season is back. Today we are ranking the top power forwards in the NBA. I'm going to tell you something right now.

I'm done. with the talk of the league is deeper than it's ever been. Because when I got to 25 through 30, when I got to the second half, I was like, hey, man. Maybe we don't need the expansion, actually. Yeah. We don't have to do that. I'm shutting all that talk down. You are right.

We don't need to do an expansion because teams like the Charlotte Hornets exist. Teams like the Milwaukee Bucks still exist. And look at that. The Bucks? That's very different levels of flip. Very different. But have you guys noticed that we have yet to? mention a buck, a single buck

in the rankings, and this is week three so far. Week four. You are true. That's crazy, right? That's hilarious. If you take Janus off of the bucks, it's disgusting. Like, it's... What are you talking about? It's worse than the Hornets. Yeah. Well, yeah, if you take away the best, second best plan on the world,

yeah, it'll be worse than the Orniz. But like you said, there's nobody else. There's not a damn soul left outside of that. Oh, Moss Turner, shut out. He'll make the centers list somewhere. I guess. Like I said, we're here to rant the top 30 power forwards in the NBA. Before we get to that, like I said, the top, last week we took a break from breaking season

because we got to interview NBA All-Star Tyrese Maxie. Go check that out if you guys didn't get a chance to see it. It was a roguid interview. It was hilarious. He was a pocketful of sunshine as expected. As you guys know, every time I mention his name, we talk about the fact that he never stopped smiling.

He smiled for the 30 minutes we're with him. Never saw a frown. And after that, after you guys watched that, check out episode 6 of Housecall. That just dropped today as of recording this. Best episode yet, I think, pretty much by far. I think we really the stride of the show starting to get going. We did one question that will define every NFL team season.

Very long episode. Very long episode. Good juicy content. How long was it? Was it like? It was a marathon of yapping. It was three hours and 40 minutes. Jesus Christ, man.

Damn near a four hour episode of just flapping our gums. And we're here back today for another three hours of TD3 content. We're spamming out nine hours of content a week. Yeah, man. Check it all out. Check out the interview. Check out house call. These podcasts can never, man.

The stamina a week is this. The rest of the game, they can't do it. They can't do it. We're the Travis Hunter's a podcast where it's like in terms of just being able to to podcast and do your job all day long. Yeah. Come on, man. Summer of separation is what we do during the offseason.

Work harder. The epineverends. With that being said, let's rank these power forwards. The cranium is crazy. Oh, my God. I mean, I don't know. to sleep. Pray on eaters, rejoice.

You say, happy birthday yet? Get out on my face. Bro, did you spill water on yourself? Yes, I did. Indeed. Did you see that? No. He has water all of his shirt.

I got a couple drips of water on my shirt. What do you mean? A couple drips. Hey, we're starting back up. I had to go do some real quick, but that's the cue after the intro. This man cannot drink water. Get off my dick and get off my dick and get off my

I hope you know What you're doing right now Is ridiculous Grom, man, it can't drink You know that's illegal It was crazy If you open this lid It has a straw

Like, is it on Cricket right now? Do you know that's illegal? What, expose me? Dick writing without a license. Get the fuck out of here. You're done, sir. Without being said, Let's get into our rankings.

You guys know how this works. You've seen this three straight summers. second fourth week of the third summer if we're still here comment a mo can drink tell me why mo does the mouth doesn't work oh what but we're going to start off with the back five

of the top 30 number 26 through 30 you guys now how it works we reveal brick by brick until we reveal the entire top 30 of all three of us first up I'm first from 30 through 26 I have Jonathan Isaac at 30 Patrick Williams at 29 Jeremy Grant at 28

Jeremy Sohan at 27 and Harrison Barnes at 26. Oh, man. Okay, for a second, I got scared. And I was like, Scotty Barnes, 26. I knew what I had a bad year, but not. But then I was like, oh, Harrison Barnes. The other one, yes.

There we go. And this is the tier of players that I don't want to start. It's essentially this tier. And I put Harrison Barnes up top because he shot 42% from 3. He'll hit his threes. He'll be competent defensively. He'll be the old man in the room, the guy who is the reliable 3-n-D vet. The other guys below them have serious concerns of various sorts.

So, hon, he still can't shoot. It bothers me. I do not like his offensive game. very good defender offensively he bothers me jeremy grant had a fucking horrendous year he shot less than 40% on twos gross year we'll see if you bounce back patrick williams is mid and every way and jonathan izic can't play 16 minutes a game without breaking jeremy i don't think jeremy grant legit belongs on this list because he saw like 37% from the field you're loki you're right i he is not playing basketball anymore he's collecting checks yeah he probably doesn't

belong this list but look who's below him patrick williams definition amid johnton isaac cannot play more than 15 minutes per game. So this is the point where I'm like, somebody has to be here. Maybe I could have put like Nicoliovich or something, but whatever. I got so curious to see like what the general feel of Patrick Williams is on the for Chicago Bulls fans. You guys know me, what, two years ago?

I like went to bat embarrassingly enough for him. And I stand by what I said. All the things made sense at the time. You had him as a top 10 power forward. No, that's crazy. If I did, that's AI. That wasn't me at that point in time. I was like the final, that was the first, like, you were extremely high.

I was a test dummy for AI. I don't know if it was top 10, but you were high. I remember being, like, bewildered. That was the argument is I was like, I was doing a lot because I was so mind blown. And I was like, you need to realize this is crazy. For me to react that harshly, it had to be top 50s. So I went on the Chicago Wool's Reddit, and I wanted to see what the general feel was for Patrick Williams. And they said, they said, strengths, collecting checks, weakness, playing basketball.

They said, body, tarz. Man, Jane. Buddy Tarzan is crazy. That feels racist. It's got him. I don't like that. I don't like that. Tarzan isn't even black.

That's not nice. Tarzan's whole thing is he's fucking raised by going on us. They don't like him at all, bro. They give him 90 million. But yeah, man, this man is third percentile in Philgo percentage at the rim for fours. He's in the bottom three. percent of forwards shooting at the rim he shot 35 percent from three nice and average previous years

he shot higher percentages in low volumes so maybe it's a down year he shot 40 percent the past two years but not a threat from three 41 40 percent from mid range which is 41 first percentile across the court not an impactful score he is a fine defender I think nice and average big wing that doesn't move great laterally or anything but he's not a not a liability but he's just the perfect plug-in-play power forward size body they said he's shooting 70 I can't you percent on I can't get past he shot what

on dunk attempts he shot 78% on dunk attempts is what they say he didn't miss a lot of dogs everybody else

in the NBA is like 90% you don't dunk and miss unless you're John Morant trying to jump over somewhere

yeah they fucking hate him bad but yeah I mean he's on the list but maybe it's a

testament to the power four position the only person on this list on this tier that maybe I feel a little bad about

is Sohan just because he does have legitimate strengths the rest of guys on here are just boring and stinky

So Han is a little more he had him at 15 Patrick Williams two years ago wow nice so on could be higher he has way more strength than these guys he is a very good defender

very switchable good passer on the short role it's just hard to I just cannot imagine him contributing at high level playoff basketball right now with ways offenses just built he's a guy that's like

Josh Gidea adjacent I think it would look like if he played in the playoff setting where he does some things well but it's really square peg round hole trying to make it work without the spacing and he's not like Jared Vanderbilt level and non-shooter like he'll shoot it but it's not

too far off yeah I think one thing I have him higher for sure but one thing I will say is that why are you still laughing could you just have water off I'm supposed to water on you right now too I won't be laughing at you but I think it about so

I'm telling you right now so I'm looking at your shirt and I'm looking at the clock I'm seeing how how long it takes to drive. How long do you think it's going to take? Like 30 minutes probably. You're fucking lying. It's going to take 15 more minutes.

I don't believe him. But my thing about Sohan that I was going to say is that I do feel like in order to not feel a lot of his weaknesses, you need to be playing with a generational start. And luckily, he does have that. So I think that's probably why I put him a little bit higher than you. And I think in order to escape those things, his weaknesses, you have to be a big. and luckily he is a big obviously he's not like ferocious at the rim or anything like that but I do think his skill set is still valuable it just needs to be deployed around a generational

talent and luckily he has one around him yeah I usually like anybody that's worth a damn can play next to a generational talent that's not saying much it's not it's not even just that I think like and I like so Han um it's just weird because the because like the spurs and the rest of their back court you still have questions about a lot of them and they're shooting like like Stefan Castle is he going to be able to shoot Deere Fox is he going to be able to bounce back as a shooter this year now that he's healthy Dylan Harper as a rookie coming in like what's his shot going to be like

and so now you think about all of like those three guys and some combination of those two might be playing it at a certain time and then you have those two and then Wembe says like where do you fit and if if Sohan is on the floor you would want him to be the only non-shooter right because it's very hard to survive with two non-shooter Sohan, I do think that because of his, because of his defense, he can be on a playoff team that actually is doing stuff, but everybody else has to be perfect.

And so that's where it really handicaps you in terms of like high level basketball. But the spurs aren't there yet. And I think that also like the lower level, like second half of the, you know, second tier teams, whatever, the ones that either are in the playing or aren't making the playoffs, they can have a Jeremy Sohan and they'd get better. Yeah, he's not going to start long term, I think. Unless the shot develops. So six-man power forward, defensive specialist that is in space the floor.

We see very quickly that those players go from like cute, nerd, fun. I love this player like Jared Vanderbilt. And then you see him play the Denver Nuggets. And you see Mike Malone be like, do not touch him. Stand 40 feet away from him if you can. Let him stand the corner every play. You start to see that the archetype is very unvaluble. But again, he is good in many ways.

So the only reason I put him right below Harrison Barnes, who I'm like, I guess they're similar flaw players is Harrison Barnes can play in a team because he can shoot. You know, he has that floor and he is competent defensively. So I said if the Spurs were in a conference finals right now, I bet Harrison Barnes to close the games. I will say, I did not put Harrison Barnes on my list because I just don't think of him as a traditional four. He'll always be a three in my mind, but I can understand putting him there. Yeah. I mean, he's been playing the four.

Like, he's been in that slot. And the majority of the line that you played last year were at the four. Yeah. I agree with you though. Yeah. And that's the thing where like we put like Tatum and KD and stuff on the small forward list just because modern NBA, a lot of teams, just play two small forwards but like you're not going to compare those guys to yannis like we know what a traditional power forward is but yeah yeah i put harrison barns here but if you

belongs with my forward that's fine i like that though next one mo who do you have this year so at 30 i have sam houser 29 nikola yovitch 28 comminga 27 i have tobias harris and 26 bobby porters that's kind of mean to tobias harris very mean tobias harris is it yeah tobias harris is much better than this class of a player also bobby porters is super not top 30 anymore but i will not spend too much i'm arguing against bobby port is but he is not a top 30 power for in my eyes jeremy son he isn't or jeremy grand definitely isn't either jack he's like he's like the worst player i think sam i i thought i thought of sam how bobby poor never i'm not one he shot he shot he still put up effective numbers and he was like a jolt of life that they needed shout out to jolt up like they had so

much lifeing jolts to the bunch roster exactly right you can scream he gets your little post post hooks here and there hit the three point shot he still he still offers a good level of production offensively he's not he's not bad okay you think he's trash she's trash but tobias Harris to me is hired just because he's so he's hating he's hain wow to buy his hairst i think should be hired just because he's very confident in like every way he doesn't have like so here people hated him he made 40 million dollars a year because he was making 40 million dollars a year, but as a $19 million vet, it doesn't really make you worse in

any meaningful way. Like, he's very baseline average of every skill. And some above average skills with the ball in his hands, but very competent in, like, floor raising. So to me, that makes him a little bit higher. I don't have him too much higher. So I'm not for the slander you for it. Yeah. It's what Tobias Harris has to be

like the only player that everyone's like, you need to play for free. Because I feel like at any number, at any number, you're going to get to a Tobias Harris moment in the playoffs and be like, why is he making $10 million a year? This is crazy. Like, but he is, like you said, he's competent and he is like, at least for me. Like he's, he's higher than 27 and he's definitely better than Bobby Porter. I love, I love Bobby Porters,

but he's, Tobias Harris is better than him. I love Bobby Porter's in like 2021. Yeah, I mean, so you're not a real fan. I'm here to, to the end of his career until he retired. Maybe I am willing. Maybe I am willing to go ahead. You are hating on Bobby Fortis. You are hating. He is good at basketball. So last year he just averaged 14 games. I would hate Brandon Bass if he was trying to compete in the honest today.

See, this is what I'm saying. This is like four threes a game last year and he shot 37%. Like he's, he's a good. Bobby Fortis is a good. This is exactly my player. He's a positive player. What do you want him starting? Bobby Forge is a big man that has a 52% effective focal percentage.

That man is a mid-range chucker. His, I don't like it. Hell yeah. No, keep going. Keep going. This is what's wrong with this. 48% of his shots come from mid-range. He has no room pressure anymore at all.

He's not a serious spacer. His defense stinks. We're not even talking about that. Like, volleyball is not an impactful player anymore. But again, Patrick Williams on my list. Like I said, you guys kept, I'm not going to chat. Top three and six men of the year don't mean nothing no more, man.

This is what it is. Back to back years, he's in the top three. Come on, man. Now, not my, that wasn't this year. It wasn't. I also loved him in 2021. I mean, he was top three last year. Was he last year?

Yeah, well, last year and the year before that. Good for him. Yeah. But yeah. Shout to Nicole Yovitch. I really never paid any Miami heat role player any mind. And I did like a semi deep deep dive into him. This is the most dismissive rankings of we've done ever.

It's like all these guys suck. It really is. Shout to you. Let's just fly through this, man. Yeah. Who's my five? At 30, I have Bobby Portis at 29. I have Harrison Barnes.

28, Santiago, Dama. 27, Sam Hauser, 26, Nikoli Yovic. Okay. Okay, same group of names. Nice. I just don't know that I'm a little bit higher. I like him a lot. I like him a lot.

I like him. At times, I think that the idea of Santayadehama is better than, like, the actual player or like, which you're actually getting. And I do think that, like, defensively, a little bit, you know, inconsistent. and not slow footer for sure not amazing definitely sucks and at the end of the day he's a pro four that's gonna pay like 26 minutes in the regular season and played like 20

in the in the playoffs so it's like you're cool like you're there and I respect everything that you bring up he's not he's better than Samhouser though for sure he is much better than Sam house listen man this sometimes I'm like hey Samhousin can play you know just because you don't respect that's why and I listen

that's what man maybe that's it but Samhouser is said you all right white boy you're right I'm saying you know what this guy's a hooper he saw him do one pull up man he said yo

no but like but Sam Houser Listen Was there some gameish here He had like eight threes That's all he's remember Yeah it was ridiculous No but Sam I mean Sam is a like

He's a legitimate shooter Oh my God right He's a legitimate shooter He shoots 40% from three Every single year He can the one area where it's like, hey, oh, like, I didn't know you could do that. Like, he can't, like, he can't, like, he can't hold his own defensively.

Like, all, you know, like, every white boy gets, gets targeted. Sam Hauser actually can, can hold up. Yeah, he's going to be like he is better defensively than Salty Aldama. Yeah. And I think like that. Still not a bit of part. Yeah. That, that end his consistency of shooting.

I do like that. And I think that, like, he, he played, he plays off ball a little bit better. Like, I think I've just. might rather have Sam Houser as like my seventh or eighth man rather than Adama so that's my pick there and then Yovitch is still it's the same thing with you just a little bit interesting like you still don't really know what's going on but he's there peculiar I like it yeah okay let's go to top 25 where the players get good we had to get through his bottom five just because power force is weird because so many small forwards play power forward so

a lot of starters are technically fours on last week's list so this is just the gutter Shout out Bobby Porter. Shout out Bobby Porter. That's 13 and 8 right there. You're going to respect that. I suppose. If you have Bobby Porter's, if you have two fans in this world,

they're on this couch right now. Next, Donovan, who do you have from 25 to 21? At 25, I have Jonathan Kaminga. At 24, I have Jeremy Sohan.

23, I have Obitopin. 22, I have Jeremy Grant. And at 21, I have Jabari Smith Jr. Again, Jeremy Grant, just simply coasting off a name and RPAs for the longest. Maybe it was a bad year.

Maybe it'll bounce back. Listen. Listen, man, nobody's perfect. No, fuck that, man. Everybody makes mistakes. That man is committed to being a fashion model these days. I looked at his Instagram. I was like, bro, you dead ass 37%.

What are you doing? He's 32. He's due for a bounce bag. He hasn't posted nothing about basketball in like a year, bro. It is what it is. He's going to be 32 in January. Bro, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, it is what it is. Get him in a, I can't even say.

Oh, he shot 47% of the room. Stop talking about it. Stop talking about it. 29% from mid-range. Dude, he's so, he doesn't play basketball anymore. He's done. Stop talking about it on the, on the episode where we're supposed to talk about it. Just relax.

Just relax. I put him on my list barely, like I said, off a name recognition. But yeah, he does not deserve to be top three above. But, but yeah. But those are the other four guys, though. Kaminga Sohan, Top and Jibar. Okay, but you put him above three flawed players. So it's not like I'm going to be like, you got to put Kamega above him.

No, the, okay. But you do, it's put Kaminga above him. So, listen, I'm not going to, I'm not going to, going to go too, too crazy. But the way you were talking about Bobby, I can't stand, Jonathan. Oh my goodness. At this point in time, he frustrations me. Again, on one hand, I feel like I say this all the time. At one hand, shout out to you. I'm very, I respect the fact that you are so confident in your abilities and you are telling

you, you're telling the world, I'm shackled. Like, I'm in chains. Steve Kerr will not, will not free me. Like, I can do more. I do, I do. I do. I do. I do. I do. I do. I respect that and I respect your ambition of trying to chase the bag. But my guy, when you get, when you get your opportunity in this system, like, guys who, guys who don't work out in proven systems and proven teams, like, it really is a really big red flag for me that, like, they have a very specific need. Your skill set fixes that need. Like, everything that, that you talk about with the Warriors is like, man, they need

some athleticism. They need some youth. you have this young 6-7 dudes right 6-7-6-8 who could jump out the gym can do all of the things that they need you to do and you cannot figure out a way to be productive in the system where you're playing off in step currie and draymond green like what is what is going on here it really does bother me and obviously like the steve currant dynamic all of that but like i bet you if commingo was actually hooping for real for real

steve car would like him a lot more he's kind of similar to so hon i'm actually not mad you put in them next to each other. I think Kaminu is better because the simple presence of being a spot-up in three makes him playable on a baseline level. But he's like Sohan in that So-Han is really good at rebounding

specifically offensively and a good switchable defender but offensively as a score it's all non-existent, right? Kaminga is incredible as a slasher. He legitimately has like superstar level slashing ability that if that slashing was

extrapolated to the rest of his skills on an even level, this would be an all-star player. But it's not the case. And he has these flashes where he has stretches for a few weeks where you're like, he's putting it together. This is John the Camingo's bench unit. And that's because in those stretches, he always shoots league average or better from three.

Every other stretch where he's not, it's jumped off your screen, putting it together. It's because the three-point shot isn't falling. As a guy who is simply a downhill slasher and needs to be a spot-up shooter to play off of that, it really is deliberate out by the three. It's kind of when Jaylon Green has these stretches,

he goes crazy. It's because he slashes and shoots well in those stretches. He doesn't pass well enough, doesn't defend well enough doesn't rebound well enough doesn't have the spatial awareness to cut well enough and in a high IQ way in this warrior's offense that it literally just comes down to you need to do two things really well one will be slashing sometimes the second one will be three and that second one doesn't come around nearly consistently enough yeah and all that in between stuff is just overall processing processing speeds when it comes to reading specific passing passing lanes or in like why he isn't necessary a defensive menace when he has like more he has he's more than capable of doing so on that end there's a reason why like he isn't the best rebounder in this team there's a reason why he isn't you know one of the best just overall feel guys in the for his age range and so when i see comminga i see like the numbers but they just feel i always leave watching him like i i always could have gotten more and there's a lot of like empty space around his game i will say he got

hurt this year obviously and missed a lot of time he had by far his worst mid-range scoring morning season like he was atrocious in the mid range that tanked all his efficiency numbers he shot 27% on long mid range jumpers previous year was 44 previous year 40 previous year 45 so I think he is a better shooter at least in mid range that he displayed this year I'm willing to cut him bail that it was because of the injury and he was an up and down season so I do think he's better than what he put out on the court for a majority of this season but even that isn't operating from a high level he's still like at highest 20 to me yeah that's if you cut him bail and there's like plenty reasons to not cut him bill i'm being optimistic and saying these traits man let him get a chance to put

it together but he's in a good he's in a good ass system for a slasher yeah the other day like the part we're not talking about is like all the intangible stuff and like buying into your role accepting your ability to play next to stars rather than i got to be the star of the ball my hands and i don't want to speak for the guy but it does seem like there's a disconnect there and that's why at this point because the saga has gone on so long i really do want to see him on another team like i i i do want to see him have the opportunity to do the things that he wants to do and that he feels that he can do that way we can just get more of an actual like base uh an actual like idea of who's whose who's fault it was quote like was it was it your fault was the steve curse fault is was he

actually holding you back all that i want a a more definitive answer so that's why i do want to see him on another team because i i can also see from his standpoint where as soon as things get a little bit muddy in terms of his relationship with Steve Kerr and you feel like the only way for him to get playing time was to go out in the media and start talking and do it all the stuff once you start getting to those lengths I can see how from that point on it it is very um you know like two yeah very head buddy I think two news are true though I think one he might have a good point that him and Steve Kerr don't get along it's not the coach for him and that he goes somewhere else he'll put up better numbers and prove to be more valuable or just

a better player than people will realize because he can put up better counting stats. That is undoubtedly true to me, I think, that you put him on the Brooklyn Nets, he can average 19 points per game. But what's also undoubtedly true to me is that that's the most red flag I've ever heard that Steve Kerr said,

we want you to be good, but you got to earn it, and you fail to earn it, and you're mad about it. And you said, if you let me go out there and give it to me and let me play it in the style I want,

not the style you want, I can put up numbers, I can put up points for game. I can be a score when the whole point is you are the level of player that you got to acquies to the stars around,

you and prove that you're valuable and contribute in multiple ways and you said no i don't want to but i promise you i can get high points per game that sounds like an unvaluble last player he's still operating like it's like it's 2021 you know 2023rd whenever they first got it and you guys are still like kind of like rebuilding the the words and it's like year one of the two timelines and so everyone's been saying oh it's the two timelines the two timeline thing that's kind of been over for a couple years now but it feels like the way that camilla has moved it's still in his head of like I'm, I'm, I'm one of the franchise centerpieces that we are trying to build around. I deserve, like you said, like I deserve all of this leeway to go out and play my brand of

basketball. And that's just not the case at this point. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. It's so, it's so annoying because there's such an easy pathway for him to be impactful for the Warriors. If he was, if he had a little bit of Pod's mentality into him in terms of I got to do whatever it takes to stay on this court, which is like, he would die for Steph Curry. He would die for Steph Curry. He would die for a rebound. He would die for a steel. Camiga's not doing none of that on the basketball court. If he committed himself to just being similar to who was it on the Warriors? I think it was Andrew Wiggins.

I think Andre Goda talked about a couple years ago how Andrew Wiggins was like, yo, in order to sound of this court, bro, you got to be one of the best defenders that this league has to offer. And he was exactly that specifically for that season. And also he had the best, some of the best rebounding rates of his entire career. If Camiga did the same exact thing,

we're talking about him in an entirely different light because that at least gives him the opportunity to be on the court, which has a whole different scenario, like so many different scenarios could happen when he's doing that. And I think he would probably say, it's not for lack of trying. That's just not my strengths. And my strengths is on-ball scoring. So use me in the best way of possible so I can make some goddamn money. And I understand that.

Maybe it's just not the team for you. There is, like I said, there is a world where goes to the team and puts up better numbers. I just think that how many players have we seen, you know, a lot is made of Steve Kerr's ability to not develop young players and how he fails young guys and all this stuff. how many young guys have we seen go somewhere else and we say, oh, that's a winning player that Steve Carter didn't get the most of him

but this team, look at him, contribute to a championship. I think if you can't win in that system off of Steph Curry and Dremont Green as a wing, especially, that just still a huge red flag. That's the easiest place to thrive as a wing in my mind. It's not easy, but it's hard, I think, because it is difficult to play off those guys. For sure.

But if you can figure it out, there's lots of rewards to be reaped. And the two guys where it's like, you just couldn't make it work at all. was Kaminga and Wiseman. Wiseman's from different reasons for sure. Yeah, but, like, again, and like, Kaminga's not that, that man. Like, you know, I don't want to put him in those two tears.

But when I, when we talk about the idea of not working in that system, even, like we said, when the Warriors need a slasher or they need an athletic big like, like Wiseman, those red flags do pop up. So, yeah, that's why, that's why he's at 25 for me. But everybody else, like, I like Obie Topping a lot. I just think, like, um, His room percentage was crazy. He was shooting like 70% from the rim and it's because it's all, it's all like dunks and layups because, you know, it's. He can run off.

He can run next to Therese real well. Exactly. You can do that. So I, I like him. I think that right now, we'll see what happens this year. But playing alongside Tari's Halliburton, that's the best spot for him. And then Jeremy Grant, I also really like Jabari Smith Jr. Me too.

I think like going at the end of next year, I do think that like Jabari's, Jarbarzman Jr. is going to be much higher on this list. I definitely agree. I have him way higher. So at 25, I have Jeremy Sohan. 24, Jonathan Isaac. 23, Rui Hachimura. Probably should have put him higher now that I think about it. 22, Obit Tauvin and 21, Salty Aldama.

We just talked about Jeremy Grant coasting off a name rec edition. Jonathan Isaac is coasting off a name rec condition. That man has shot. So he was horrible offensively this year. And obviously, he still was a good defender in those 15 minutes you can play. but I was like I can't put somebody who literally can't play more than 15 minutes a night high like he had to be lower

and like his shooting percentages were not good this year so you can barely play and you're a straight defensive specialist now yeah the interesting thing for me why why topping over Rui toping over Rui because I feel like see that's why I feel like I could have put Rui higher because his play style seems to depend

a lot less on who is around him because he can do he does a better job at creating on the ball much more and he has more layers to his game a little bit but the ceilings are just the ceiling i i give it to toppin because this is the summer of the pacer's i give him a little bit of that and on top of that too i think i like i like toppin's ability to shoot the ball a lot better as well now rui is a better i guess they're like even as rebounder and rui is a good three-point shooter but really sucks a defense that's the difference

obi also is an amazing he's a god awful off ball defender He can do awesome on ball stuff. He's not terrible defending big wings one-on-one. Like, you put him on Jason Tatum, he'll hold his own better than most defenders of his caliber, considering he's, like, not good. But if you make him chase screens, play against, like, the Warriors. We have to pay attention to everybody off ball. He's fucking horrendous at that. So he's, like, more out-rounded defensively than Obie, but Obie strengths offensively, I think, are kind of even.

And Obie probably has a higher floor defensively, even though he's also not amazing defensively or anything. Yeah. It really hurts you defensively at times. And, like, that gets overlooked because you see the clips of him defending on ball and being like, whoa, look at him go. Look at him. He's still doing his job. But you don't see when he gives up a million back door cuts and everybody's rotating for him. Yeah.

Yeah. They're really, they, those two belong in a, in a group together, though, for sure. That's fair. The specific group is, like, super, like, valuable role players, but specifically 23, 22 and 21, you do have, like, glimmering holes in your game that can't end up top. Yeah, it's really 21 through 23 are all, like, really interesting. interesting, high-level offensive players that have some limitations defensively in their own ways.

Like, Sonti's just, like, not athletic. I can hurt him. But, like, his feel offensively is insane, which I think, I have him this tier as well. I have, oh, yeah, he is in this tier. At 25, I have Obitopin. 24, Jonathan Cominga. 23, Santi Aldama,

22, Rui Hachimura, and 21, Tobias Harris. Hmm. Okay, yeah, pretty. Tobias Harris is kind of a tier break. Like, he's a little bit better than these guys, just doesn't have those glaring weaknesses, as I mentioned, but.

not terribly far apart everybody else is is kind of in the same tier we finally have some agreements of like yeah yeah 20 through 26 yeah you're here yeah these are these are limited players with some some pretty strong strengths whereas a guy below or like like mid these guys have their strengths but there's certain reasons

why they never became like elite role player Derek White OG Anobu status they're solid starters but nothing crazy yeah I do I do agree with you yeah yeah Tobias is the is the cheerbreak Yeah, I was hating super hard on Tobias Harris. My bad Tobias. Shout us on Sotomayor, man.

Sautil Adama is so cool. Like, such an interesting player to have that you can have this size, which this shooting ability and his ball handling. Like his playmaking. Yeah. Like his abilities with the ball in his hands and like his ability to scan the floor and like have a good feel for everything around the court. Like if he had a better body, if he was born in John the Camigua's body, he'd be a star.

Like if he was an athlete, that'd be a star player. Yeah. That's just a crazy package. Like a crazy baseline to give anybody. Yeah. at that point you're quiet Leonard Santi skill level with Kamika's athletic system

if we did those things where you like combined players like a TikTok thing you did before that is a star combined Santi Aldama strength and Kaminga strings that's a all star level player that's Franz Wagner

well at a three point shot Franz with three but okay we talk about all these guys we feel pretty aligned with their range and keep moving Mo who's your 20 through 16 20 through 16 20 I have Dorian Finney Smith

19 I have Tori Eason, 18, Jabari Smith, Jr., 17, P.J. Washington, and at 16, I have John Collins. This is like the same exact here as me, I think. Is it? Let's just a couple of months. I think I have the same players. Your first, Monument. We're at 20. I have Keegan Murray. At 19, I have Tobias Harris. 18. 18. I have John Collins, 17. 17. And 16, Tari Eason. Okay. I have Dorian Fini Smith at 20, Jabari Smith at 19. Kegan Murray at 18. Tari Eastern at 17. And John Collins is 16. So, again, again, Again, very aligned with the range of these players.

I clearly on the highest on PJ, Washington, so I put him a little bit higher. Maybe I have finals or in my head still. But I put him higher just because I know that he can contribute next to superstars at a really high level as an on-ball defender, three-point shooter, slas, or all that stuff. I'm just like, maybe just because I've seen him do it next to superstars.

And that matters to me a lot for this tier player, where I think I can say for all these guys and all of our tiers, these are elite defenders that make superstars better. Yeah. You are somewhat elite at something in the game. For someone like John Collins, I obviously play for my team for my team for the longest and when he left the Hawks a lot of

people a lot of Hawks fans left or he always like would paint paint him towards the for all of our woes and what we suck at and shit and John Collins definitely improved so much as a player he wants average like 20 and 10 for two years for Atlanta you know obviously he's not traditionally a 20 and 10 player that's not what he should be doing if he's been giving your team 20 and 10 something is probably wrong but seeing how much he's done developed as a shooter has been fucking scary. He's legitimately a 40% three-point shooter, 39, 38 sometimes, but he's one of the better shooters on the core of all time.

And also on top of that, too, he's still a fantastic slasher. He's still amazing above the rim. He's still also a great rebounder. And when it comes to the in between stuff in his game, which is just creating your own shots a little bit or just getting an easy one-step pull-up dribble into a mid-range shot, he can do that now as well. He's a fantastic player who's just waiting to get a similar opportunity to something like PJ Washington.

I genuinely feel like he is better than him too. Yeah, he's very different. He's like the opposite player whereas Collins is like a legit really good offensive player. Really talented pick and pop big for all the reasons you said. Him and James Hardin are going to fucking eat. Yeah. Dude, that pick and pop is going to be special. You're going to have to deal with the Zubotch thing

and maybe Collins facing the floor for all those minutes. Zubach goes to the bench. Collins becomes a small ball five. They bring in whichever other permanent defender they want and you have to deal with that spread out offense with James Harden setting him up as a passer, that's going to be hard to deal with. Like, of all the different additions, Chris Paul set him up to. Oh, Chris Paul set him up to.

Whatever for the six minutes of game. That's going to be amazing. That's going to be special. See, everybody else here isn't an elite defender, but Collins is specifically offensive oriented. Yeah. But after that, the Tar Heeson versus Barrett Smith is an interesting one for me. I put Easton higher, but I wonder if we extrapolate too much of Tar

Eason of, like, give him full-time minutes. He can go crazy. He's deficient. He'll continue. Maybe we make the idea of him a little bit better in terms of like what he could do with 35 minutes a game. But I can't help it. That man, that man's motor is insane. The shit he does per minute is ridiculous.

Yeah, so like I think for for me, like, I think with Jabari, I really, I think that Tarah has a little bit more juice right now than Jabari does. As a slasher. Offensive, yeah, where like Jabari, it really is, it's going to be catch and shoot. and that's that's that's that's good like the crux of his offensive game at this point and even then it's not like his shot isn't amazing yeah and so for the role tarry uh no jabbar like his his shot isn't isn't crazy and so if that's if that's the role that he's going to going to play then i do need that to be a little bit better and then tarry it's like it's like you say it's it's i test like you just see him on on the floor his his motor how impactful he is it jumps off

the screen every time you watch and play and so i i do think that just because of that i'm gonna give him the nod over jabari yeah that's pretty that's pretty fair i'm okay with that i think by the nature of someone like jabari's game not jabari's game it's like chaotic and it's super fun explosive it's fireworks and all that but i do feel like jabari he's been looked off so many times and deprioritized naturally because oh shit like we have someone in your same exact draft latch who's an actual gung sangoon right now and then on top of that too like we kind of sped up our timeline and all that and i think as time has went on javari smith junior is one of the most underrated players in the league who just doesn't get enough shine especially on his team there's

in so many times last year where i feel like he just like disappears on offense mainly because like okay he's a four and we got drafted he got drafted entirely too high but when he got drafted like he was labeled as this dude who can create his own shot and all those other shit which he has the ability to but he is not the hub on your team he's just a very good ancillary piece and I think that's what he is I think his shot is really good and I think he can prove to be one of the better

one of the better shooters at his position in the league he is that and I wouldn't go that far he's pretty I wouldn't say one of the best but he is a good shooter you're right yeah he had a moment he had moments last year where his shot was like okay this is like it's happening and like he's going to be a shooter this year kind of came back like down to earth and so was anything anything wild and uh you mentioned that like he disappears a lot offensively because there's so many other guys that need to be fed and like they're they kind of got moved up to

pecking order over time he also does suck at offense like for the most part he's a good spot of shooter but outside of that you can't do much else which is okay because i have in this range as well because he's a damn good defender he's a halisist defender that's part of the that he's so rogots are entirely different without him on the court he is he is no juice offensively, really, besides spotting up for three at a late league average rate, which is good for a big. But defensively, he is a big reason why Sengoon made a big

improvement defensively and why you can say that he's not a liability anymore. A lot of times because he was playing next to Javari Smith, Jr., who, you know, it's not, no coincidence that in undersized, slowish center that doesn't have shot blocking range and mobility in that way, like Sengun, who we project to be a bad defender for his whole career,

it looks better when you're playing next to a versatile, rangy, long, power forward that can cover a lot of ground and complement your weaknesses there. If you get blown by and pick and roll, he can rotate Sankuna's IQ to rotate back. And they have a good chemistry there that when Jabari Smith went out with injury,

their defense tanked for those couple weeks. They had a rough stretch in the middle of the season and I don't think it was a coincidence that he was out for that time. And now I'm looking at it. It's fucking outrageous that they have on the same team Isan Jabari, Finney Smith, and Kevin Durang who's also a big long defender.

Didn't even mention a man Thompson. Yeah, yeah. Crazy side defensive talent. This is one of the most essential archetypes to winning in the finals. in the NBA having a power forward that can be a versatile defender to defend the rim and switch on defense almost every single championship team of the modern NBA has one of these guys and the Rockins have fucking four five you kind of meant is that like their defensive talent is insane and

the the one thing that I think I'm a little nervous about for Jabari in terms of like why he wouldn't move up this list is just because of all the names that you just said like like during Phine Smith he can he can do all those things and also shoot better than Jabari. Tari Isson, his activity, the same way they just stands out, he might be able to do that. And also, we're putting Kevin Durant at the four. And so now when we're talking about who's going to play the three, how are we going to do that? I think Katie might play the three.

I think they might start him and Jabari Smith together. Okay. And that's fair. But like, you can also see, you know, lineups where they also signed Clint Capella. I'm so, I'm so interested, at least like in the regular season. Because in the playoffs, like, obviously, like Clint's not going to have minutes like that, like that. maybe but he's good it's yeah but we'll see but they have so much so much length and so much size that how how you may you know ends up deploying all of that and who plays with who

that's that's one of the more interesting things of in my head in terms of like going into this next season yeah yeah yeah they almost have like too much defensive talent not enough offensive talent and like i wonder if there's going to be some kind of recalibration trade to like you can you can afford and maybe and maybe that is that that could be the case and i think once Jabari Smith Jr., I think he'd be the odd man out as well, probably, because he probably nets out the most value, while also you probably don't feel the pain of losing him that much because you got DFS. And you got to pay him soon.

Exactly. You probably don't want to pay him and Easton. You could. You very well could, but. They paid Eastern already, I think, recently. No, they paid. They paid Jabari this summer. And then.

Really? Yeah. Oh, we got it backwards. Yeah. Yeah. They paid Jabari. And Jabari is honestly on a good deal. Like, he's at like $25 million.

And then. And obviously they just paid Dias. Yeah, bringing him in. So, like, Eason's the guy that still hasn't gotten. Yeah, I guess what I mean is you probably don't want to pay both of them. Whenever you get to the point,

you're also paying a man also extending everybody else. You probably probably look duplicative over time as time goes on. For the next few years, it's fine. But I wonder if long term they, like, swap one of these guys out for another complimentary fit, which really not I'm thinking about it. It probably comes down to whether or not Reed Shepard is good. If Reed Shepard is good.

I completely forget. Dude, they're loaded. If Reis Shepherd's good, then you're fine. He can be the offensive boost needed, and you have all these ways. wings and you're good. But if Rechepard does prove to be just not athletic enough and can't be what we wanted it to be, then maybe it would make sense to move one of these guys out for another offensive

oriented guard. Either way, embarrassment of riches. The Rockets are going to be so good. Guard, better hit. That's the two seed next year, man. They're going to be insane. They are stuck. Okay.

So this is the Houston Rockets tier. Yeah, exactly. The Houston Rockets tier. No one else matters. 15 through 11. 15. I have PJ Washington. 14.

I have Tumani Kamara. 13. Draymond Green. 12 Aaron Gordon 11 Julius Randall I struggle with Randall Wow I think Julius Randall is really low Well there's three there's three players above him We're all star level as well

So it was pretty hard like I was debating like him Versa Lavery Marketing and stuff like that For like number 10 Some other all star level guys And I knitted out to I respect Randall a lot for we did this year And how they figured out how to use his skill set Really well with Rudy Gober

Really well with Anthony Edwards The deciding factor between him And some of the guys above One of which being Lowry was I decided if I was build a team who would I rather have for their play style? And like if I'm building my ideal team in a world where I can like have the complimentary skill sets I want, Randall is just, you know, slightly worse offballed in some

those guys with the shooting consistencies. It wasn't a problem that or anything. He was good. But, you know, some of those guys just have a higher off wall floor to me. Okay. Okay. I understand that. With my thought process from the most part, I've been like adding a little bit of that to my package, but also I'm just looking at you and how you were able to perform last

season compared to the previous year so and again and i think the guys above him are comparable levels like it's larry marketing and scotty barnes like yeah think scottie had a bad year but like i'm you know i'm using contextual analysis here the raptor's situation was dog shit i think it'll be fine and even then like you put scotty barnes next in randall's place on the timber wolves he would have performed a lot better like yeah i think those are comparable levels of player that i'd rather have these other guys for stylistic reasons but again these tears are broken out by numbers but if it was actual subjective tiers that we didn't say you have to be the same for all of us he would be the same tier of those guys shout out to to moni kamara man

whatever we hear the word like breakout player whatever breakout star we usually we just look at at straight point per game stuff as NBA fans but he generally was like one of the four five guys who made a complete turnaround was your first team all defense or second team I think he was I think he was second I'm not sure though either crazy you're too exactly I remember when he got he was a of the, was he, was he a part of the KD trade? Nerkich. Nerkich. Trader for Nerkent. Yeah. When he was a part of that, Nerkish trade,

I grew up with plenty of Tumani's in my life. And whenever I see the name, I'm just like, I had too many cameras, you know. And whenever this trade happened, I'm like, okay, and this dude, too many cameras got thrown into the trade. And to see him just like breathe, like, completely elevate to this player

who's, which is easily one of the most valuable archetypes in the league is genuinely jaw dropping. Because now, He kind of looks like Gerald Green in the face Jail Green. You glanced at this with the same facial hair and braids. It kind of looks at Gerald Green here.

I think the brids are doing a lot of carrying on that. Yeah, and the facial hair. And just being light skin. Yep. Just a lot of skin, dude. This is Joe. I see it, actually. This is Jail Green.

I see it. They don't actually look alike, but just know all these features you described. At first glance, I thought I was looking at Gerald Green. Okay, interesting. You said you grew up a lot of Tumani's in your life. He said they don't actually look alike.

Yeah. But if you just see light skin, light skin, you're like, yeah. Yeah, pretty much. Maybe facial hair, same hair. Like, you said I grew up with a lot of Tumans. We're just racist, yeah. Yeah, what did that mean? Like, you literally, you had friends named Tumani?

Yeah, and, like, family members. Tumani, he's West African. Yeah, he's West African. Tumani Camar is a West African-ass name. Is it? Yeah. What is it? Like, he's, he's Maliant.

It's mainly, like, Mali, places like that. Gotcha. Good for Tumani. Yeah, I didn't know. Good for West Africa. anyways we had to be an all defense level defender in year two

and shoot 38% from three like that's just an insanely valuable player to have on your team every single year I have I struggle on where I want to rank someone like Draymond Green because there's times I think last year

I ranked him at number eight but this year I believe I have him in the similar tier as you and I'm just like how do you rank him? How? Right behind the All-Stars and there's 11 all-stars

on this list counting Julius Randall It's an all-star level player. And then it was between him and Aaron Gordon for 12 for me. And I just feel like Aaron Gordon has just developed so much offensive juice last year as a shooter. Yeah. Still as a slashing. Great defender as well that I just gave him a slight nod.

But they're same tier. You could swap Dream 1 and Aaron Gordon. I wouldn't be too mad at you. But yeah, just right behind the stars. Yeah. Okay. 11 is really like where the odd man out is. Yeah, yeah.

Because to me there's 11 all stars on this list. Okay. All right. And I see which one you put there. Okay. So at 15, I have Kegan Murray. I feel like he could have found his way a little bit higher. But again, like next year is like, damn near all, damn they're all stars, if not all sorts.

Can I be honest to do? Go ahead. Miss your hand real quick. No. No. I think King and Murray fell off. What? Dude, he hasn't shot above average in two years.

It's been two straight years. Freser rookie shot 41% from three. It's been two straight years of 35% from three, which is below league average these days. He is the only thing that like any productive Sacramento Kings member have to hang on. And they'll tell you that it's been disappointing. how his offense has developed with the past two years. He's a great defender, but not as good as Tumani Kamara, not as valuable to me as Aaron Gordon.

But the offense has not developed. I don't expect it to develop. Then he cannot be this high to me. I don't expect it to develop. Then again, PJ Washington's right there. It's not like it's a giant difference. Yeah, exactly. I think a couple years ago when the Sacramento Kings first created the light of beam stuff

and their coach at the time, Mike Brown was like, yeah, we didn't make any moves this all season because we're expecting a lot of internal growth to guys like Kegan Murray and when he said I'm like bro you're tripping like who do you think Kegan Murray is he's a great player and he's going to be like the same exact player for the next 12 years there's nothing wrong with that that's still

like ridiculously valuable now of course like his offense not developing and like efficiency being you know shaky like we talks about is disappointing but regardless of the fact this rule right here is like oh yeah like you are a come not a

complete offensive player but you can fit on every single team in the league and you would be damn near starting on a lot of teams in the league as well he somehow he shot a career high at the rim which is nice to see 77% at the rim and somehow he still had a below average effective focal percentage yikes that's crazy you would be shooting like shit for that to be the case i mean shit he his situation's tough and i don't blame him for shooting like shit when you have like i do he's the spacing he's supposed to be the spacing i blame him a lot for not being the spacing when that's your main role between these stars all the attention's on him man him and zach levine so much pressure on you man no

it's not exactly he was there for like half a year that's just not all on him though like he needs to be the guy more attention was on him he's supposed to be the glue guy that alleviates attention from the guys that do stuff with the ball in her hands and if you're not doing that at the same level that you were as a rookie it's understandable why you know things are kind of falling apart let me let me see where he shot

last year and he hasn't been terrible anything I mean I had Kimmerer okay now mind you listen I'm gonna say this right now his three point percentage has gone down every single year 42% 36% 34% yeah wow

How are we feeling about that? I don't love it. He needs to be the spacer. That's his whole role. And again, he's obviously improved in other small areas, but like... RIM percentage has gone up every single year. Salute, but effective full percentage is still down every single year despite the improvements as a physical driver.

It's not a good sign. And I think he's a very good defender, but not like premium, best of the best to make up for it. Like, I've never thought about putting him on an all defensive team. And that's where he'd have to be to make up for the shortcomings of the offensive player. That would make sense. That would make sense. but everybody else in your in your tier i like yeah i mean scotty barnes you're digging them from the struggles last year that's fine i mean it's i haven't one spot about randall i think so

that's understandable yeah i think this this next year of like 11 10 and 9 are damn near interchangeable because they have all these parts have somewhat had down years yeah i'm worried about scottie for sure offensively but i still do believe that like put him in a second option role like i always say next to anthony edwards exactly where randalls in i think he would be stupendous. Yeah. Brandi eaggum said, watch this.

I got some for you. I hope he goes crazy. I hope that works. Don't know what you got. At 15, I have Rui. At 14, I have DFS.

13. I have Aaron Gordon. 12 Scotty Barnes and 11. Larry Marketing. Damn. You have two of them down here? Who do you have?

Oh, you have a top 10. Okay. Wait. Wait. Okay. DFS is this high. Oh, shit.

What the hell? I really like the offense. I really like the offense. What the fuck? I really like. I'm like, I said, screen.

I'm like, and Rui? Oh, shit. You were talking earlier? Listen, the on-ball clips move me. They did move me. He made a last-minute adjustment on his list. That is actually not the spot-down-up. You know he loves a man-range number.

You know he loves a man-range number. Yeah. Got him red-headed. He got that in his bag. Fuck team defense, fuck rotations, fuck defending cuts, fuck fighting over screens. Don't worry about that. Can you pull up to your left and pull up to your right from 16 feet?

Nope. Nope. Can you turn around one shoulder bump? Listen, man. He's been shooting that thing. And he's good for a poster or two every year, too. He does some people. That is true.

That is very true. Now, listen, if he could just change his number from 28, we can get somewhere because 28 is a nasty number, but we can, we can rise up out of that. But, yeah, we're at 15, whatever. But, like, DFS at 14. I actually do, I really like DFS. And a lot of it is because, like, he can, you know that he can shoot. He can play next to literally anybody in the league.

and he's going to make make your team better. And so I, like, Eric Gordon is like the top of that tier in terms of the amplifiers and all that stuff. But DFS is also in that tier of can you just show up on a team and instantly, like, not have to worry about any of the politics, any of, oh, I have to get my shots out, and you can just go in and do all the dirty work. Yeah, DFS is like that.

So I'm, I've, and I also think that, like, because he's going to be in a, on a team, where everybody's a dog, everybody can play defense. The entire defense is going to look better. DFS is going to look better this next year too. Yeah. I think it's not crazy or anything,

but he really can't do a damn thing with the ball on his hands anymore. I don't care. That's kind of like what I want from Kamara too, to Manny Kamara there. He's just like, you know, way better defender, better archetype of that type of player

that just shoot threes and defender ass off. She's just a little more juice there. So I think Finney Smith doesn't have quite the defensive talent to make up for doing not shit with the ball on your hands. but, you know, it's not insane. Yeah.

And I will say, like, if, so like, if, um, where's Tumani? So, so if I put Tumani on my list, because I didn't put him on the list. So if I, if I put Tumani on, on the list, then he would be like above, above DFS. And I didn't put him on the list just because, like, he's so, he's so different. And he's so, and he's so unique. And this is also my way of saying that I forgot. Yeah. He's so different.

He's so different and unique. He's so tough. He's one of one, you know. but he would yeah Tamani would be right there we would move dude down he'd be doing his own thing yeah I'm like

I'm looking at just like something just feels off why do I see marketing and Scottie Barnes here already like what's off but I see okay makes sense well again

even if even if Tamani was on this list it wouldn't change my placement of Larry or Scott John one and Randall or both top 10 for him okay

okay it's about marketing wrong bozo no okay I like this. I like this overall marketing, Scotty Barnes, and Gordon

that feels like a fine order. Okay, there we go. Let's move on to the top 10. Donovan, who is your 10 through 6? At 10, I have Draymond. At 9, I have Zion. At 8, I have Jalen Johnson. At 7, I have Jerry and Jackson, Jr., and at 6, I have Palo. What the fuck is going on here?

The one thing that I will say, I do want, I'm making this amendment right now. I'm moving Palo into my top. top five. Who's in your top five? Because I feel like this is my top five and that you flip them outside of the top of you guys. Like, hmm, money of these guys are in my top five. So I'm so confused right now. Okay. So Draymond, D. P. O. We don't have to discuss that. Nine, you know how I feel about Zion. We're not going to discuss that. Eight, Jalen Johnson. Love them. I need you to stay healthy. Please. Jerry Jackson, Jr., awesome. Frustrates me a lot.

Fair. And then six, again, Palo, you need to move into the into the top five. But those those seven to ten guys that you know my reasonings for putting them outside of the top five. Okay, let's reveal the next one then we'll debate it. At 10, I have Scotty Barnes. At nine, I have Jalen Johnson. At eight, I have Lowry Marknin. At seven, I have Pascal Seaccom and at six, I have Palo Ben Carroll.

I showered a lot of Palo versus Seacom. Nah, I think Seacom is entirely too low, man. I know you do. You put him at three last year. So I know you love to God. Again, he is, and he proved me 100% bright, bro. He is consistently one of the most underrated, undervalued, underappreciated players in his position.

He's really good. No, he's really good. But, like, you know, he is playing next to Tyree Taliburton, playing the perfect system for him. There's, so I'm not, I wouldn't put somebody below somebody just because they're a second option. But I do think this is a specific team in which Tyree Taliburton is the engine to a degree where, like, Siakum very much can have slower offensive scoring games and have bigger ones and, like, it'd be fine either way. He's the glue to that team, but he also is not asked to carry a huge load as a score consistently. and I think there's a lot of times that we don't really think about it

because the way that offense runs and how egalitarian it is that Seacom has his low lights as a score sometimes and we kind of overlook it because the offense is fine we do look at, no, we overlook it a lot. We look at the highs for him

like look at him, go, he's so on a raid, he's better on these guys. And it's because he scored 12 points to the night before. Exactly. So I don't, I'm not down on him at all, but like, Palo, so the only debate for me was Powell.

I could have put him higher. Obviously, you guys know how I feel about Zion and how I deal with the health of this all we disagree. I'm just, like, going to gauge for how good you are on the court, and Zahn is better than him. Palo, you could, you don't got to argue with me if you want to put somebody both Palo Van Caro, I understand.

I simply said that, like, I do think Palo is better. If the situation is bad enough there with the lack of spacing that I said, you are better than Pascal Seaccom. I do think if we had you in a more optimal scenario, you'd be more efficient and you would be better to some extent if you weren't asked to be a point forward, which I just don't think you are at this stage. So I give him the nod.

I just think he's better. But that is the line for me. I could very much see Seaccom over Palo. yeah and again i you know i really really like palo but the the stuff that we talk about all the time in terms of like his bad habits and whenever i was thinking about this it really is like it's starting to to creep up where going into this year if none of those things change then i will start to have um a little bit of not even a little bit i will start to have concern i feel like i've I've given him probably the most grace out of,

yeah, out of anybody. And thinking about like the best way that he can be used, I do think that part of that is like their, their scheme and who they're, who they're playing with and, and all this. But if he,

if he is set and maybe him and, in the magic at the whole are aligned on him, like you said, being set as this point forward. And that's what you want to be. And that's how you are also casting yourself. Okay, that's fine. Then I don't think you're that.

but if you think you're that, okay, you do have to take these leaps. And so if that doesn't happen, and especially now that you do have Desmond Bain, who is going to open up a lot of other things and is going to make things easier for you, if you cannot come out this season and lead your team to a top 20 offense in the NBA, we have a problem. Yeah, I think there's a lot of hyperbole with Lyer Markner right now. There's people that say he's the most underrated player in the league or he tops him

player in the league bucket getter look at him yeah we're just he scores 30s look the way he moves with that size he's an absolute problem and they they do a lot of overlooking of his weaknesses and a lot of cutting too much bail i think for the situation as if he doesn't play a part in the team as if the guy that has the highest he's in the league of this position isn't a big part of why their offense looks the way it does like of course he has the most to do with the offense and if anybody they do too much cutting slack but there's also people that think like me and that that blame him for a lot of things but they go way too far where they're like this guy's a bum he could never be a best player on a team he stings overrated i don't feel that way i say give him time

to get there but like you said if this next year we don't see some improvement there then i'm gonna be like okay maybe we have to have a conversation because right now i think he is wholly incapable of leading a playoff offense that can win in a level as a number one option the way they're making him be number one option where he is playing as the primary score as the primary playmaker as essentially the point guard in offense he to me is wholly incapable of that role succeeding at a high level. Yeah. And it's because he's young and I think he'll get better.

Yeah. And that's, yeah, he's like 22, 23, whatever. It's a difficult role for a guy whose skills aren't developing that way and they're trying to make him, you know, get trained by fire, deal with that high usage and get better as we go on. So when they're ready to contend, he's there. But people treat him like he's already at that level, like he can already be a high level playmaker, is already an efficient enough score to lead an offense with the

usage he garners. Like, he hasn't had a single moment in his career outside those first five games last year before the injury, which again, the injury was a big deal. We talked about that last year that that's why he came back a little slower because that's a pretty brutal injury to come back from. So acknowledging that, but there really hasn't been a meaningful stretch outside of the playoffs two years ago where he shot 52% from midrange for seven games. There hasn't been a meaningful stretch where he's been nearly efficient enough to play the way he plays. Yeah, and that's, I think that's probably our biggest disconnect is because like obviously he does have issues, but you look at the magic and like they all suck on offense. and when we get to the playoffs he's the only one where it's like yeah and yes you do have the ball

in your hands but also if nobody else is doing it somebody has to step up and damn it at least palo is attempting to step up and there's game where he is still scoring 30 and that's cool that's like that's like pat him on the back it's good for like brownie points and what you want to see from a player in the middle of that exactly and like that like i've taken i've taken that and it's like I know that if we can fix these other things, you clearly have the talent and the ability. And so, like, seeing that, it's like, I don't look at that and look at that as, like, empty playoff numbers.

I really do look at that as a stepping tone and a sign of you are that guy and you can do these things. So that's where I extrapolate out for him. Like, even 36 in game 1, 32 in game 2, 31 in game 4, like, to be able to to drop those numbers, I refuse. Notice it's always points per game. It's never deeper. I refuse. What's all that blue on your screen?

To pull up. I refuse to pull up to pull up two-go percentage. This is his shot shot. Relax. Look at all that blue. Blue means below average. Relax. Find me a strength in his scoring profile. Relapse. Now mind you, he's taken. And this is honestly,

the honesty is kind of crazy because you really don't see this level of like volume. in like today's game but he's taking 27 25 and these are shots 27 25 25 35 32 in game 4 and then 6 to 15 in game 5

you don't really see people getting up shots like that and so a bunch of that is you're the only guy on this team who even has a real chance of creating for yourself or creating something for everybody else so like you are going to be in those positions

I'm Desmond Bain better change their broke lives And I don't hold that against them or anything The lack of efficiency in the playoffs Like I didn't bring that up as a weakness either But I do think that if you watch those games And you So here's the thing

If you look at in the most like I think the right way to phrase this To the box score Palo has superstar traits And all this stuff already That like he's already there That's how people say he's top 10 Like you said 36 points

32 points all this stuff he's the only guy there, right? Like, on a glance that all, like, paints a picture of a young star who's being hoed by his team. But I think if you really watch those games, the Celtics, like, made it a clear point to say, okay, we know Palo is not going to score that officially one-on-one against our defenders. We're going to let him shoot nonstop, not help off anybody else, and use his worst habits against him. And he fell into those worst habits.

The offensive process was terrible. The playmaking speed was terrible. The love for the mid-range, the Celtics said you're going to shoot a lot of marian jumpers because they're going to play off you. We're not going to let you eat at the rim too much. And he fell into those bad habits. And I think it's just way too easy right now for a good defense to make his worst habits come out. Exactly.

And that's why, like, if that stuff does happen, third best power forwarded in the league. Like, yeah, again, he has a ceiling. And you said he has all the talent, all the skills to be top whatever in the league. I think he has all the traits right now. Like he has the size, ball handling, touch. It's just we're just waiting for it to put together and like really like be tangible skill. And I'm not out on him or anything, but we just need to, you know, be honest of where he currently is in his development past.

Fair. All right, outside of Bencaro, Mo, what is your, what is your tier here? My tier. So, coming in at number 10, I have Laurie Marketing, number nine, we're locked, steps, I am I, Jalen Johnson. Number eight, Vine Williamson, seven, Julius Randall. And at number six, I have Jaron Jackson, Jr. Okay.

Shout to Julius Randall, man. The PR boost is, shout on him for putting some respect on his name and earning that. Yeah, he completely, like, revised and morphed into a player, the best version of himself that we saw a couple years ago. New York most definitely yeah and he showed all his strengths when it comes to being an amazing connector filling in a lot of gaps still like maintaining some of that mid-range stuff that he's still good at to this day but also like driving as a not a not a point guard at all but another guard option for Anthony Edwards and release a lot of pressure

for him so yeah great ear for him yeah I'm not mad at him being higher honestly like I put him there but maybe I'm not thinking about I'm like should I have Jalen Johnson about Randall. I don't know. Genuinely, Julie's Randall had a better year than him. And then Jaylon Johnson and Zion Williamson and obviously completely different caliber names. But you have real issues here when it comes to health and it's starting to get scary. Specifically for Zion, like I, last year, I think I put him at number three. And I think you had him like super high as well, just like me.

And it comes to a point where it's like, bro, we're coming into year seven, Zion Williamson. Yeah. And we haven't seen him in the playoffs just yet. Now, of course, like, he, there's bigger reasons why they aren't in the playoffs, but he is, like, probably the biggest reason still why they haven't matched those accomplishments just yet. So, I don't know if he's the biggest reason, but I see your point. It's just pretty hard to build a team around a player that's that unavailable.

Without a doubt, that's a huge hindrance. I wouldn't say he's the biggest problem because they have a sea of problems, but you're right. It is quite the hindrance. I just, as always, third year of this with Zion conversation, I rank him just when he's on the court just because the it's hard for me to do the injury thing with filling any type of consistency so i put number five i'll just spoil that on my list he's right above van carroll i would if i'm starting a franchise today i'm picking pal of van carroll because i know he's gonna play games but when they're on the court i still think zion is clearly better in this past year yeah to me it's like not a

conversation that he's far better passer far more efficient score neither one of them are good defenders really but i think zionan even has a little bit more defensive activities a little more of a playmaker with the athleticism whereas van carroll is just fine you know he's big but not necessarily impactful defender yeah i can understand that when i'm making this list right here specifically this tier release i'm just looking at you and i'm talking i'm asking myself what i draft you for my team based off what i've seen you do through this throughout this 82 game and also the playoffs if he made it too and zahn is so good that through all the games that i've seen to monica mara playing all that i still rather have someone like zon because the highs are that just are just that high but it is

what it is. Yeah. Eight is where he belongs. Yeah. I'm just tired of it. Last year, so last year you had him at three, you had them at two. I listened to y'all from the year before because I think I ranked them low the year before and now I was like, you know what, let me, let me go ahead and be dice. And I had him at two last year as well.

We had him at two last year? Isaac and I had him at two, you had them at three. Wow. The position was weak last year because I mean, there's a certain superstar at the top right now that wasn't there last year on this list in here now. So, yeah, the talent has changed a little bit up top. and another guy made a leap. So it was more about the position being very weak

outside of Yannis last year. And this year that is not the case. His top five is loaded. But Jalen Johnson, shout on him being in our top tens. It's just clearly on the precipice of stardom, I think. Easily. We're so close. If you can just stay healthy through February

and you can actually get the All-Star nod, we're cooking. That's really all we need. Because the Hawks, they're going to find their way into the end-season tournament. Hey, not this year They're going to make a run What you mean not this year?

We are not making the in-season tournament Oh, I don't know why But I thought I heard playing Yeah The in-season The in-season tournament Is it's on the books for you guys I think you guys can get there

And I don't know If he's healthy, he's an all-star His two-point shot is very TBD He had that one good year A couple years ago Where he shot extremely well from three Back to his career averages Last year at 32%.

So again, but also small sample size Because he did get hurt For 36 games And in the 36 games, he was killing it on the interior, killing it as a defender, killing it as a playmaker, all around much better player than was year before, I think. But I do need to see that three-point shot, get back to 37%. Yeah, most definitely. I think there's, he has, like, it feels like he has all the fuel in the world. And he, there's such an interesting stat that made so much sense when it comes to, like, watching his play style and his almost preference offensively.

When it comes to overall, like, ball activity and how often a player is just, like, deferring to his teammates. Naturally, you're going to see Nicole Yolkits up there. Obviously, you're going to see someone like Tyrese Halliburton up there. Jalen Johnson's name was up there as well. And there's a lot of the times on the court where he, like, suited as the backup point guard because we didn't have one. And his activity on the ball and willingness is just like look for the best option at that, at that position and size. And also skill set just like, do that is ridiculously valuable. Obviously, he's a great defender to, or at least a fine defender as well.

what will keep him in this range like going forward will stop him from reaching his max potential in my mind which he could be a top six pile forward one day maybe top five who knows is his ability to fill in the in-between game and obviously the three-point shot yeah you know if he's able to have a little like two percent polo in his game when it comes to taking being having the skill set in town to take those shots and that's your bag oh jesus but the comparisons are fucking crazy but if he If it's not that, it's cool. And it's still one of the more valuable players in the league.

Yeah, yeah. He definitely needs more counters who scoring besides the slashing. He's like a top of the line slasher. Great off all player. It can cut, can run in transition. Can create on the ball scoring opportunities at the rim. Yeah, like you said, we need to see the mid-range jump shooting and the three-point jump shooting. Give him some form of versatility as a score.

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. In terms of, I don't know who I feel about the him versus Randall thing. I kind of like overlooked that. I ended up putting Barnes right above Randall. I didn't think too much about Johnson versus Randall. Johnson is a better defender. for sure.

Offensively, Randall does more at the ball in his hands. But Jalen Johnson is a really good off ball player. I don't know who I find more valuable there. Like if I could redo this.

That's a damn near a flip of a coin. Damn near. I give the edge to Randall because he is a better shooter. And I think that just ends a conversation over there for me.

But they are close. They are close. Yeah, because like Johnson is a higher floor. I think he is what he is. And obviously Randall has the highs and the lows, which we saw more highs this year.

So not to say he's still missed your inconsistency or whatever. referred to him in the previous years that's an interesting debate like if I'm like rebuilding a team right now and let's say

Anthony Edwards is my best player who would you rather have as your second perimeter star if I had a year of good Jalen Johnson shooting or if I knew he was able to be an average shooter

I'm taking a general you don't know anything it's right now going to next year you don't know a damn thing about anything you're just doing a fantasy draft and you're staring at Randall versus Jalen

Johnson to be your co-star you have Gobert you have the rest of guys on that team it's the starting power forward Randor or Jalen next to Ant that's tough man

and it's a go bear that's super tough. I'd roll the dice and give it to Jalen Johnson because of youth and pray to God his shoulders work fully. Yeah, I think I agree. I think I'd roll that dice, but yeah, the health is a big factor for him. Yeah.

All right. All right. On to the top five of this list. Who do we have here, first, Moe. Powell Benkerra at number five, four, Evan Mobley. Three, Pascal Seyakum, two, Anthony Davis, and one, Janus. Sean, over Mobley. I have Seacom. Oh, brother! I got

Siakum over mobile. Oh, brother. Yes, sir, I do. This guy stinks. Do I feel bad about it? Nope, not at all. Next year, do I think Evan Moby's going to skyrocket and surpass him? Absolutely.

Hell yes. But for the year right now, nope, I am not giving it to him just yet because I think you guys are truly underrating just how consistent Pascal Siacom was, especially throughout the playoffs. Like, you mentioned, yeah, like, you'll go ahead and, like, score 20 or whatever it is. I'm about to go get these games off. like every star like okay he'll have like a 12 point game or maybe a 10 point game which he specifically had like two of those but outside of that he's put up so many consistent things through all like just like how Tyrese Tirees Halliburn is responsible for a lot of the opportunities and gets like more flack and attention there's a reason why the Pacers are able to remain

constant that's because this is hilarious go ahead okay last last two rounds of the playoffs conference finals and finals against the nix the points per game 17 39 17 30 15 31 he's consistently inconsistent the next the next series in the finals against okay c again we average 25 for the next series cool again again points for game 19 15 21 20 28 16 16 16 just me Average 19 points against the best defense that we've ever seen. Just nice. No one saying he's ass. No one's saying that he's bad or anything.

And like I don't even, I brought the inconsistent points of game as like a small, subtle side. I don't want that to be the main argument against you. Yeah, that's super easy. Evan Mowley is the best defender in the world. The Easton conference finals is very funny that it really is you either scoring 30

or you're scoring less than 20. And it does average 25. So it's not a bad performance or anything. It's not even really inconsistent performance. That's old school AD number. Oh my God. Again, it's not about Yonavukin can be bad or anything. It's just that.

Mowgli is the best defender in the world besides Victor Lomenyama and made huge strides offensively and like, if you want to say Seyakum's a little bit better can do a little more with the ball in his hands, that's fine. We'll give him the nod there. I do think Mowbly has his strengths offensively as a lop threat, as a play finisher

that gives him neck and neck offensively. The defense is not a conversation. Like Mowgli is leaps and bounds better. Even though Siacom is a good defender, Muby's in a different class. Yeah, for sure, I agree. He won DPOI for a reason, and it's 100%.

I love his strides. Just a couple years ago, I think when we first started the pod toward the back half of the season, I mentioned how I was listening to some brand of Mesapean podcast since they were giving him like Derek Faber's comparisons because of the muddy year two sophomore slump that he was having. And since then he's, those conversations are no longer and he is like the definition. He's like the perfect version of what you would want from your modern day five or four, or whatever you think of him as in your mind.

For us, obviously, a four. And I was getting Anthony Davis comparisons. Look at that. Yeah, exactly. He just needs to take a couple more strides when it comes to scoring. Everything else is fucking there. Everything else is there for sure. Yeah.

I just love him. That's fine. I mean, he's great. I love him, too. It's nothing against him. It's just, yeah, it's really not against him at all. It's just, I think the guys, like, Mowgli are just, like, closer to A.D. than Siacom to me.

Yeah. That's fair. It, yeah. I want to, if Mowbly had taken. scoring wise Is allegiance to the cause? I might have an allegiance to Seattle because you're so fucking underrated.

I mean, we all are, but for Siakum, of course, it's a little bit closer. You're not going to do it, who's going to do it for you? Who else is going to do it for you? I respect it. Oh, man.

The offensive consistency is so underrated. Okay. Next up, I have Zion at 5, Jaron at 4, Moblee at 3, Anthony Davis at 2, Yonis at one. I feel like I'm the only one that I remember is the year that Jaron had

and how much he proved us wrong in so many ways as an offensive player. Yeah, fantastic. Did he prove us wrong, really? Okay, prove us wrong. I don't actually know what we thought of work. He took that. Yeah, wrong verbiage.

Prove us wrong isn't the word because I don't think we were like, Jared sucks ass. But he made us alter the way we think about him a little bit, I think. Um, not really. Not for me, at least. You don't feel like you see him in a different light

than you... I don't see him in a different light because once I saw him face the best defense in the NBA, similar to Pascal Siakum, he got fucking hammered. I don't hold any, any player in the NBA's performance against the OKC Thunder against him. As a general rule, in 2025, if you played against OKC Thunder,

I'm throwing your numbers out the door. I don't care what they were. You were playing God's gift to defense. Even then. 37% from the field, five rebounds in that series. You know, that's my biggest issue. Come on now. Listen, this guy is a big, small four.

We're past this. We know he's not going to grab up. rebounds. No, but that's that, see, that's, we're past this. That is the difference. If it was, you know, top three of, of course. But like, as soon as, as soon as you get past something, it just like, doesn't matter to you. It's like, it's still a consistent part of his game where, like, you are this big and you are not rebounding at a high level. And it is, it is frustrating. And it is kind of impactful. And so the fact that that is still there, that, like, that, that bothers me. Now, I do give him a lot of credit. Because like, like you said, we didn't come into the

year saying like oh like jaron sucks right but he did legitimately take step forward and i think that for this team specifically because you have ja and all of his injury is he playing is he not having somebody who can do that who can step up and score more for for this team i do like that a lot and then now that now that desmond bain is gone there's going to be a lot of nights where like I think his scoring is going to go up even even more just because he's going to have all all that extra opportunity so if he ends up at four and his scoring is just so undeniable at the at the end of this year that's fine I don't think it's at that level yet I don't have him there because the scoring is undeniable necessarily it's I just being like he was already

really good around this range what do we have match like five six seven something like that maybe towards the closer to 10 than but it was because he had the year from hell when job was out and it was just a wasted year where he had to be on-balled nonstop and a team full of nonsense to get the top 10 pick right and you know he came back from that is still the good off-ball shooter is still a player that can play next to other stars like John Moran specifically and he had way more on-ball capabilities now because he was forced to fire like that he is his numbers in the short mid-range were ridiculous he was walking into instant mismatches being able to attack guys bigger than him I mean smaller than him be able to use his dribbling ability to get by guys

smaller than him said that all backwards you know what I'm trying to say yeah had the versatility to attack smalls and bigs with different skill sets and be like your legit go-to score in that first stage of the year when they had that new offense that fit jump around poorly, it fit him real well. We'll see what it looks like now that they fire those guys and are recalibrating around the offense that could hopefully

fit both of them, but he was just way more dynamic of an offensive player, but that's not why he's number four. He's not number four because he's amazing offensively like Zion's number five. He's also a top flight defensive player and is a guy that has won a DPOI, is the anchor their defense, is essentially Jason Tatum defensively with

in terms of a big three that defense fours can block shots, but is not a traditional power forward in any sense. He's much more like a small forward that happens to be 611. Incredibly valuable on that end, that Moby's above him to me because he's better on both ends, but in terms of two-way players, they're similar archetype in that way. Is Mowgli really better on offense than Jaron Jackson Jr.?

I really don't know about that. He's not the better three-point shooter, and I think Moby's a better finish and he has a better, like, touch around the room probably. He's not as on-ball oriented, obviously. So if you want to give Jaron the nod because he can do more with the ball on his hands,

that's fine. Mowgli's more of a play finisher next to guards, but he's like amazing at that. Yeah, I prefer Mowgli in general. Yeah. I prefer someone like that. I think,

well, I don't know. Maybe you're right. I don't know. That's, I got to think about that more. But nevertheless, he's much better defensively. That's why he's above him. And that's why that's not a conversation to me.

I'm for sure putting Mowably above him. But I do think, like, comparing him to Jaron to Zion and to Palo who right below him, that Zion is clearly way better offensively than Jaron. defensively, the gap might be even bigger. Like, those guys are not good defenders really whatsoever. Yeah.

Yeah, I think, like, for Jaron, if he's just having a regular Jaron Jackson Jr. season, he's around where you're at, like, six, you know, six through eight, all that. But the reason why he's at four is because you have that on top of, you know, coupled with this, this offensive leap that he took. I want to see it again next year. We'll see you. And like, I have to see if it's actually, you know, going to happen.

At five, I have Randolph. four, I have Seaccom, three, I have Eminobli, two, I have AD, and then one I have Yonis. Okay, so, and this is also the one where, again, early I said, we can switch Palo to put Palo at five and Randall at six. So you'd rather have Randall than Jaron Jackson, if you're building a team right now? As a two-way player that has a power forward, you need him to be good defensively, you need him to be good offensively. You need him to piss you off. That's what I'm seeing.

Yeah, you hate his lack of rebounding. Fair enough. It is a weakness. It bothers me a lot. And I think that, like, for- It is harder to build around him. Jared Jackson, it's easy to build around him, but also at the same time, too. You have to have a very specific big man next to him. You cannot allow someone there who you can't give up any size at all.

You can find a good rebounder at the five. It's not like it's impossible. With Randall, though, I think, like, one, I am very, very happy for him that he did have a very solid playoff run to kind of dispel all the, you know, playoff choker, playoff dropper, all that stuff to where you know he can at least be Julius Randall. and even if he's not like rising to some crazy level whatever you are getting in the regular season you can get that in in the playoffs so i like that a lot i do like how in the second half of the year because of the way the minnesota was using him you did see like the the buy-in from from randum to

really be like okay i'm going to play this this different role i'm going to play off an and i'm going to fit in here i like that a lot and so it showed me that he's he's more versatile than than you think now when we got to the playoffs i was like yeah the Tim Wolves are going to lose because they're going to bait Randall into doing all these things. But at the same time, in a playoff context, I feel like you can do the same thing with Randall and with Jerry Jackson Jr. It's like, hey, if they end up beating us offensively, fine. Like, it's okay.

And we're just going to have to live with that. So the improvements that Randall has shown the consistency that he showed this year, I'd like that a lot. And so that's why I would have them higher than Jerry Jackson. Okay. I don't disagree with any of that. Again, this is another, all these debates today. I'm like arguing against these guys and I'm the hater for him

but like it's really not about them at all. I just like the guys that the other guys inside of it a lot and I think I like them more than you. I don't even know if I dislike Randall as much than I just like Jaron in this combo but I just think Jaron is you know, we salute Randall for figuring out the fit issues

and finding ways to make your work. There's just never going to be a fit issue with Jaron and that's what I like the most about him. There's not a single star in the NBA he won't fit with and that is like super valuable to me that you elevate literally any line could be in that I can't I can't imagine a line of people wouldn't elevate. Yeah, I

agree for sure. I definitely agree. I think the gap for me defensively too is just what sets them apart. That's a sharp that's a hard no for me. Yeah, I have pretty, I don't have much patience for bad defensive power forwards. Like Zion being five, like, he's lucky he's like, fucking incredible

offensively. That's your, that is your golden child. Like Zion could do anything and you'll be like, he's so talented, like he's going to top five. Yeah, I'm saying he's lucky that he is cut fucking unbelievable offensively to be able to still be top five and again, if Palo makes us a step or was a little bit better

defensively, I would never have a problem putting him above him. It's just he also is bad defensively. So I can understand the argument putting Siakum above those two for defense and there's no weaknesses. You're shit on me when it comes to where my aligns Oh, I didn't do it. I didn't do it. I'm just saying I can understand the argument. I'm talking about him when he comes to Seacom.

Oh, okay. Just put him one spot below. He just pulled in me right now. I know. No, no. I mean, you went ahead and pulled up all his guys. No, no. You put him over Moble. That's specifically the problem. I would be mad at all either if you put Siakum 4 it's just overmobie's crazy listen man i told you guys i was going to be on bullshit expected because these two selections right here yeah no yeah i did yeah mobly's the one where he clearly like i think there's a there's a small small conversation that that is to be had like he's closer to ad than he is to siakum okay in my opinion and like the like the reason why ad is

still up here is because if mowgli can improve his offensive game and get to that 25, 26 points per game that the AD is doing. Obviously the defense speaks for itself, DPOY, all of that. We're still trying to get that level of production for Mobley, but he is like there's, it's, it's not, it's not a crazy conversation. It's probably the conversation that we need

to be having going into next season of one, was Mobley the second best player on the Cavs this year? And it really was he the best player on the Cavs this last year? That's not a conversation to me at all. He's the best player on the Cavs. I don't have a problem saying that. Okay, so like And I know, like, you are very high on a mobile.

I think that there is still, like, de Mitch and all of all the stuff that he does. If you want to have that, that debate, I think that's like the conversation to be had and it's very reasonable. But that's the, that's the stratosphere that Moby's in right now where it's like, this is about to be your team on a team with Donovan Mitchell and you are that good to where you are the guy. You are, you're the best player, you know? Yeah, I think, like, I put Seaccombe below Jaron, Palo, and Zion. But I feel like that's like that's the that's the group that I don't have an issue at all You putting Siakum on the top of that group at four opposed to the bottom of it at seven where I put him That's completely reasonable to me like I struggle with that like honestly if you gave me two more hours to think about it

I might have put Siakum closer to four or five But whereas Mowgli like I got to think like damn dude how far away from he is Anthony Davis Like how close is he getting listen let's just switch let's put tiyakum at five for you let's get Zion out the top of the top five no I'm okay with that I got it honestly Isaac how if he plays 45 games this year Zion Williamson. Are you still putting him like top five? Oh no. Of course he is. That's an improved thing. He played 30 this year. Again, this is not this is how long is it going to take for you to take him out of your top five. Well, I'm never going to do it for that reason. I've made that clear. Like this is not a list of who I'm going to build around and a redraft

of like my franchise player. It's how good at basketball I think you are when you're on the court. That is the, that's what I'm gauging here. Not necessarily your value to my franchise. That's where I'd put, you know, availability and whatnot in. This is how good I think you are at the sport. It doesn't get to it. It doesn't get to it. It doesn't get to a point for you. Like I said, I would pick, I think he is meaningfully better than Palo Van Carrow. I would pick Palo Ban Carroll if I'm rebuilding my team. So it's already gotten to that point.

This just isn't that list for me. And I'm trying to not let that logic bleed in because I think I'm trying to, like I said, measure how good they are at the sport. Let's start doing value rankings. Because we could. Yeah. Well, last year we did that after. Remember we did that after we finished all positions, we did the most viable players. I didn't know, I didn't know Zion top 10.

True. Let's do it again. Yeah. So again, for that conversation, I'm with you. Like I am scared of building around Zion for sure. One, I do want to do that again. Two, if we did that off the top of your head, is he top 20 for you? Hell, no, surely not.

Hell no. Of course not. 30? Who do he thinks around 30? He's pushing. He might be 30, maybe. I mean, who's the who's, like, who do you think is going to be around 30 to be in that conversation with for me to compare him to?

I don't even know off the top of my head. Like Garland or something? Like, maybe, I guess. Yeah, it's probably in that range. Maybe. But I, well, I might leave him off top 30 just for, I'm with you. Like, 30 games is this fucking treacherous. Like, it's terrible.

I was looking at it again last night, just in all of. of the games play of like misses the whole season, 29 games. Then he plays 70 and it's like, hey, shout out. And then back down to 30 this year. And I'm not even saying I'm like, right, like you got to view it that way. Like, if you want to put games played,

I'm not chastising you for not putting Zile on top five. Like, I get it at this point. It's ridiculous. It's just he happens to be absolutely amazing every time he's on the court. So it's hard for me to, you know, not put him on top five and I'm only looking at what you do when you're playing.

Okay. Allow it. As long as you hold the same position. I might not rank and beat. the center's list. I honestly might just stay away from it completely. Yeah, I don't know. Fine.

I'd rather you do that than do like what the ringer did and rank him 84 in the NBA. Yeah, I'm not, I'm not going to do that. But I just don't even rank them then. Just just, yeah, I might not. DQ. I might not. Wow. Okay.

And there's our Power 4's list. Also, shout out to Janus. You know what I'm saying? Oh, yeah. Holding down the top spot once again. Oh, and shout out to Anthony Davis for getting what he wants, crying enough and getting put back in Power 4 for the time being, you got your.

dream. You got to go to a position where you are less effective at in almost every measurable way. Congratulations, Dallas Mavericks. Your star center is once again a power forward. Third best center in the league is playing the wrong position. And he's happy. And I'm ecstatic. Exactly. And for team morale purposes, I like that. Can you imagine how good it would be to have him at the five and Cooper Flagg at the four? It'd be beautiful. They'll be, they play so incredibly fast. But get ready to speak, Daniel Gafford. Get ready. It's going to be wonderful. I guess. What are this? interesting

I'm the biggest hated this week hardly ever happens congratulations there we go and with that being said at this end of our power forward ranking week four of ranking season is in the books

it's not for day we are here we move army up god damn you just destroy their ears why can't you catch what type of throw was that

I forget his quarterback's gentleman hurts we move on his birthday How do you? He said, did you wish Jaylor's Happy birthday to me earlier? Go to hell.

God. Welcome to TikTok time. Today, we're once again going to begin with the draft. Last week we did our draft that was potentially the worst one we've ever done in terms of talent pool for the 2007 draft class.

It was disgusting. Ramon Session mentioned. Lots of other guys mentioned not to sing about Ramon Sessions. Cory Brewer. Aaron Brooks. Aaron Brooks. Rudy Fernandez.

Teago Splitter. mentioned today we're doing a stack draft class because this one's a little different than what we normally do we're going to draft NBA lineups of whoever we want only rule is one player from every decade of the last five decades so 2020's player a 2010s 2000s 90s and 80s and then we'll do players of a draft in those decades draft in those decades okay so drafted in those decades okay or did you draft it or somebody who was like in their prime in those decades because it's not like Bronn played every decade like should we find some way to make it so everybody only has one decade I guess played in decade yeah let's go play

Yeah, that's the easiest way because I couldn't tell you when it comes to the old players if they were just like outside of the 70s when it comes to being drafted. So let's be played. Just played. Okay. So we'll do one player in their prime from every decade. And I'll label it as so. So it'll be, you know, 80s through 2020s.

You guys know this works. Draft order is Mo, Donovan, me. Donovan. Donovan, who is the first player in our cross-generation draft? Ron Black. He meant me. Oh. Who is the first player?

See, this is why you have to stand with Siakum. Exactly, at all times. Who's the first player in our draft? Small Ford, give me 2012 LeBron James. Okay, so you're 20-10s player? Okay. Yeah, so I've got to lock that in. Fair enough, fair enough.

Diamond, who are you picking? Give me 2,000's Shaquille O'Neal. Okay. Okay. So you were picking, what, that's called O-1? Yeah. O-1 shack, okay. that is an interesting pick

obviously give me Michael Jordan give me 1991 Michael Jordan okay shit did the thing nice and then oh I get to double up it's not even the best Jordan what do you think is the best one

probably 93 now whatever and then you know what you're such a douche I'm such a douche I just don't know the difference I don't know. Shut up, kid.

I thought you were going to say like 88 or 96 where they're like meaningfully different. I'm like, I'll come ahead. I cannot remember the differences between 91 and 83 joy. I did not know. Okay. And then you know what? I'm going to pair him with 2016 Steph Curry.

Fuck. Give it by 2010s player at point guard. Yeah, man. That sucks. That hurts. Give me, Curry. I wanted Curry I specifically wanted him in

2022 Ah you thought you were gonna blow a fast one Yeah See that's the thing Should we do a player Like in the decker They're known for For that reason

Yeah Should we Like Could he have picked Curry in the 20s I wouldn't I mean like I guess But like

Why when 2016 is there Because I already picked 2012 Bronn Ah whatever Do you want Yeah Who are you taking? See, I don't know where to go with this.

Tough. Everything's at your disposal. It is tough. And see, I messed up because I didn't, I didn't think this through. No strategy involved? Yeah. Sucker. What I, okay, so what I will do then is for the 20, for the 2010s, I'll,

For the 2010s, I would take Kevin Durant At the small ford. That's a good one. Okay. Damn it. I got to get the closest thing to Kobe and Shaq that I can't. Yeah. KD with Shaq is a beautiful combination.

Fuck. Okay. Shit. Okay, cool. You sound like that fucking courage to cowardly dog care too. All right. So at my center position, give me, is it, was it Akeem 1 in 95?

I believe. Just say a year. Usually want Hakeem-A-Lajvon. Yeah, you mean 90s Hakeem. Okay. Okay, we'll give you 94 Hakeem. 94. Okay.

Damn. Miami-Bron and Hakeem. Yeah. Good Lord. Yeah, I'm really clicking right now. Damn, that's a crazy big. Oh, fuck. Hold on.

Wait. Actually, hold on. Wait, wait, wait. You messed up? No. Um, I'm going to double up here. Okay. I want Hakeem in my four and give me 20-20s yokeets at my five.

Dude, I was about to do that. that, no. Also, I don't know why I want to keep with the four, but, okay. Fuck. I like, you'll get just too slow. Give me, give me him at the five. You're, every draft, you have, like, these great players, but for some reason you inject a weird fit into it

for no reason. Dude. You love making it not as good as you could. The passing is ridiculous between these five, between these three, so I'm, I'm going to survive here. Yeah, okay. Donovan, who are we going with? We will go.

with we will go with 2020's Janus Okay So like 23 Janus Yeah 21 Yeah 21 Janus Damn him and Shaq

You got both of them Old Shaq and New Shaq Hmm Okay Give me See I feel Oh y'all are Oh my mental games

I don't got to do this I was about to play myself A little bit Oh but now Ooh yeah What errors do you have left available That's that's a trick part right here.

He got the 70s, 80s. You have good options. Yeah, I do. I'm trying to think of the right way

to do this because I have one player I want, but position of value. I, do you guys I already have done all the positions

that you guys, like we have opposite positions. Exactly. So it almost doesn't matter. So I'll just say at center, I want Tim Duncan.

Okay. I'm going to put 2007 Tim Duncan at center. Okay. We'll go, actually, maybe I can put my power forward. Oh,

we'll figure out later. We'll put Dunk in there, and then I need a small forward. I'm trying to figure out for fits. I need role players on my team. Give me 20-20s Jason Tatum, a small forward. That ain't said role players and Tatum. Backhanded hate. Okay.

I need someone who does a little thing. I need a rebounder, a defender. I already got the scores. Now, mind you, he is correct because that is the worst player on this list right now. Yeah. And sometimes you got to have the worst player. It had the best team. That's cool.

That's cool. No, it's not. I mean, I could have picked mellow or something if I wanted to. you fit you didn't have to have the worst player but all right at all right so i have so i need a 90s and an 80s player for for 80s i'll take 80s magic johnson good fuck we're you gonna do that yes stupid it's cool because the guy won one better for you and then oh it's my turn buddy slow down yeah yeah yeah me 80s larry bird at my two And you're two.

Am I two? Oh, I should have picked Larry Bird. I forgot about Bird. Fuck. Again, you're committed to your team being the worst fit possible. Worst fit. Go to hell. No, they're not.

I mean, obviously it'll work, but like, you just never. You always inject some little form of everybody's slightly out of position. I got versatile players here, man. What can I say? Okay, so now I specifically needed 2000s player, 2000s guard. Oh, I should have picked Larry Bird. Damn. Okay.

So for a 2000s guard, I got Larry Braun-Hakim Yolkitch. Straight gunners, bro. I got my spacing, my defenders, two fantastic playmakers who should be my point guards of the team. So on my one, I'm going to get Kobe. Give me Kobe. Yeah. Wait, which version? Kobe at point guard?

Which version? Shit, 2001, Kobe. Doesn't matter. Okay. Okay. Kobe at point guard. Because I don't, yeah, he's a fake point guard. I have brawn here and I have yokeets.

Those are my real point guards on the team. Okay. Okay. All right. So I have, I can either pick somebody from the 90s or I could pick somebody from the 70s. No, we're going to go back to 80s. Oh, okay. So 90s, 90s it is.

Yeah. Yep. Who was your 90s guy? This is going to be. This is going to be disgusting. Clyde Drexler's right there This is gonna be disgusting Nah, that's not what I want to do

At all What I want to do is I want to take 14 KD I want to move into shooting guard Oh shit Because we're gonna take 90 Scotty Pippin I was thinking about doing that myself I knew you were

That's not bad at all But yeah I'll take 90 Scotty Pippen Put him at the small forward Okay well whatever It's right down Okay damn I'm putting I gotta put Tim Duncan back to power forward

Because I have 1980s left Give me 1980 Carrema dolejabar okay that's insane insane for that last pick is crazy man last pick is dumb last big give me the third best play ever yeah exactly

that's hilarious 1980 oh my god that's funny so I had the best dinner of all time the best shooting guard of all time there was power forward whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa

hold on what the fuck what do you disagree with it well I'm asked to win my no you don't you have probably have the worst team here. Sometimes you got to have the worst players

to have the best team. Oh, Pippin's worst to say it? I guess, man. But being able to double up on the eras is so clutch on this one. Double up on the air. What do you mean about it? Like, or to double up on your picks

like within the air? Oh, yeah. That is very true. That is very true. This is fun as hell. Okay. So for audio listeners, I have 2016, Steph Curry, 1991, Jordan,

24, Jason Tatum, 2007, Tim Duncan, 1980 kareem and i have 1988 magic 1991 scotty pippin who's say 94 uh 2014 kd 2021 yannis and then

2001 shak man this is so loaded bro so for at my point guard I got 01 kovi at my 285 Larry Bird at my 3 2012 brawn at my 41994

Akeem and at my 5 I got 2024 Yolkich you should have mean like everybody's team is so stacked and like your names are insane but it's like why does it got to be so weird but if it was a team though if it was a team why does it got to be so strange i mean yeah like it you'd have position as basketball you'd have broncobie larry yokeachikin yeah and obviously 2012 brown could play point but like that's also before brawn was quite as point guard centric he leucentric like you picked a version of him that wasn't quite as attack every mismatch like yeah obviously he did that stuff but even if so that's the

case like have yokech right there who average like nine 10 assists a game so it's perfectly fine yeah he came cutting off him yeah he came had great mobility and he did but i don't know if he's necessarily the best offensive fit with yokech i feel like you don't need the ball to flow through heim a little bit i think last thing allowed from from yokech yeah yeah exactly instead of ereng gordon just flying through and then i got larry bird just chilling being casual hands in pockets where you do you open a worse way that's saying you need someone that's willing to chill and then these guys are willing to chill Jason Tatum, he will chill. Tim Duncan will be more than chilling, I guess.

They will chill. Those two guys will chill while Curry and Jordan will kill him. It'll be perfect. Yeah, man. I would want Donovan's team if I was playing 2K, I think. Actually, no, because Janus and Shaq that throws me off a little bit. No, that terrifies me. It's great.

It's great. His spacing is dog shit, though. That's what I'm saying. Spacing's dog shit. And, like, Janus needs spacing. I don't care. Like, you need spacing. He throws it back to Magic Johnson.

Matt's just like, I'm not going on Janus needs spacing to get this game off this yeah the last time the last time that I played like 2K

you give me honest in any situation I'm setting the score on record I think Janus type of player that you only pick him if he's gonna be your primary ball handler I don't think I would want

Janice at all if he was like a second or third option this is so interesting man we're gonna run we're gonna run I was hoping to grab Clay Thompson

but then I realized oh shit I spent my pick on Braun fuck My team made the best half-court offense, but transition, not as much because you have, like, Braun and Kobe running on the break. But then again, you're too big, so you're also kind of slow. I have magic and Yonovan.

Hakeem's not like Janice. I mean, he's not, he's not, not athletic, you know, but it's not Yonnes. He's faster than Tim Duncan. Magic. Magic. Hey, honestly, I don't know who's faster, flisbee wise, young Tim Duncan and Rakein.

That's not like a blowout. I was quicker. I don't know. I don't know, honestly. Who's ever asked that question? I don't know. Only me. I have no clue

with the answer is. Hakeem's short bursts quicker for sure, but I don't know who would win and race up the courts. Yeah. I have no clue. Okay, that's an interesting one to think about.

Wow. Next thing we're going to do, I'm going to show you a series of NBA lineups comprised of former teammates of certain NBA players and you guys are the guess

whose teammates you're looking at. So it's not going to be the most notable teammates, not going to be the best, not going to be the worst, is an assortment of random-ass players each these guys I've played with

you tell me who the through line is that's played with all of them. Okay, they shared a locker room with these guys. First up, whose teammates are these? Is that Grant Hill? That is Grant Hill. All right, so it's got to be somebody old. And I think about the old dude who's on the cusp of retirement. I see Lou Doroth there and Seth Curry.

This has to be Chris Paul. Damn. I'm surprised you got that one so fast. This is Chris Paul. Play with David West on the Hornets. Wouldn't he play with Grant? On the Clippers. He had Grant Hill played like less than 10 games on the Clippers in 2014.

Yeah, it makes sense. Yeah, he was basically an assistant coach. Okay, makes sense. I think that would be one of the harder ones. You guys got that instantly. Oh, yeah, we're going to fly through this. We're locked down. We'll see, man.

I didn't even put any question marks. I felt like it could be too hard if I did some question marks. So each person, you have five. Okay. Whose teammates are these? Jha, James Hardin, LeBron. Shack? Hold on now.

Shack. Shack and Jha is. Who's playing with Shack and Jock? Old man? This is an old guy. Sack Jaw and LeBron. that is shack and jaw together is like such a weird combination that they played so far away from each other facts and so so okay so jaws in like the 20 i think yeah team or no 2019 draft jow was a part of

the 2019 draft it's easier to identify who play with jock over the other guy because jaw only has so many teammates and also hard in lebron and shacker play with a thousand people each so like this could be anybody so this is stupid they might have the most teammates in the NBA history those Also, Kauai and Leonard has a very short track record, too. Think about all those spurs years. Three franchises, though. But really, it really is who's played with John Moran. Yeah, exactly.

Okay, so let's rattle at all because that's the best way to do it. It has to be like the old, old dudes. Stephen Adams. To play with Shaq. See, but even Stephen Adams isn't that old. Like, Shaq retires in 2011, 2012? Who are John's vets? Oof, not a lot of good influence.

Listen, as soon as... Derek Rose? As soon as I said we were locked in, we are not locked in. D-Rose has never played with Kauai. I'll say this guy won championships with multiple of these people. He won championships. I feel like the answer to all of this. And I will say, no, I'll tell you this.

The Jom Morant thing is a trick question. It's a purposeful throwing you off. So he didn't play with Jaws. No, he did play with Jha, but maybe ignore that. Maybe ignore that. Wow. You have a better off knowing he's won championships. Like multiple chips?

I'm not going to say anything else. and ignore jaw. Okay, so ignore Zha, who are like noticeable guys? If we're ignoring Jod, then Kauwai Llander is a telltel dude because he has only... Lokey, with the words I just said,

this should be pretty easy now. Actually, I wouldn't say pretty easy because this isn't like a star or anything, but... Okay, so I'm thinking about guys who went to Toronto because he sounds like he probably won a championship

with Toronto too. And he hasn't won a championship with James Hardin, so fuck James Hardin right now. He clearly hasn't want him on James. Yeah, sorry, James. Probably ain't win with, um,

Shack either as well because that means me he was like old old so I'm looking at Kauai and LeBron right now This is great This is great deduction That was good logic

Kauai and LeBron Kauai only won a championship With the Spurs and the Raptors So thinking about Spurs and Raptors Who also played With the Cavs or Lakers The gears are turning It's not the All-Star Guard

I feel like you just got it I think this is Danny Green This is Danny Green Look at you deducing it Peace by piece. Shit, man. That was a lot of brain work. Danny Green played three games with the Grizzlies in 2023.

That fucked me. That killed me. In 2020, he played three games with the Grizzlies and eight games with the Cavaliers. Eight games with the Cavaliers. So that was just to throw you off. Okay.

But you guys got it. Next up, whose teammates are these? Dude, who is that? Who is that? Well, what position? The point guard. That's Nick Van Exel. Okay.

That's a picture of him when he's old, so it's a little hard to recognize. He looks darker in that picture. Okay, that's Hito-Tur-R-R-R-A-R-R-A-R-K-R-A-R-K-R-A-R-R-K-R-A-R-R-K-A-R-M-A-R-M-K-A-R-M-A-R-M-A-M-K-A-B-A-W-B-A-B-B-A-B-B-T. See, Hito. See, Hito, see, I was going to say, LaMarqs. See, Hito played with everybody, too. All these guys have played with so many. With everybody, we're going to be in hell. This one is difficult. I will say this one is quite hard.

Who did Nick Van Exel play with? Mostly the Lakers, but this is, I'll say this is not the Lakers for Nick Van Exel. He famously was a Laker, made an all-star team with them. Yeah. But this is not from his Lakers years. Okay. Okay. So, I guess, so Lamarcus is the player with the least amount of teams or fewest

amount of teams, I think is the term. Yes. Yeah. So Blazers, Spurs. I'm glad this is hard. Blazers, Spurs, Nets Aaron Baines Spoiler alert, if I have

Nick Van Exel and Hidoo, it's probably not from the Nets days. Yeah, exactly. So cross out the Nets, okay. Now we're looking at this. This guy has to be a spur. He has to be a spur. Because team, yeah, he has to be a spur.

Well, where does that lead you? Who are the spurs? Is this? Who are the spurs? I don't know. I wonder who. There's, Is this Tim Duncan?

Yes. Yeah, there we go. I'm like, come on. Say the spurt. When did he play with Hito? For like half a year. That's another true question where you did not play with the Spurs.

He was there for one year, played like 14 games. Okay. Also, Nick Van Exel played one year there in 2006. Let's see, what year was Turkey was there? Let me check again. Hito was there in, whereas I can't even find it.

2004 played 80 games with them. So, full season. One year, 2004. Tarkaloo. Whose team team? are these George Hill Nick Young

Andre Aguadala Janice and Al Horford okay shout out George Hill haven't said his name on the show in quite a long time

it has been a while has been a while all right so now we said it during the draft 2007 draft did we pick him nope

we just said it we just said his name though apparently if you said it last week that's crazy yeah okay two weeks George Hill mentioned in a row is nuts

So this guy was So who is Janus playing with? Yeah Yeah he was a buck Okay Somehow I'm thinking Nah see I was thinking Brick Lopez for a second

But Yeah so This is a super short air Super short era Yeah honestly this isn't This is Drew Holiday This is Drew Holiday Yeah this is Drew Holiday

Yeah this is Drew Holiday Hey Donovan is doing cardio Yeah no i guess the um the first one yeah he the chris paul one did you no you got chris yeah no i said i said one right when we were saying oh okay i forget who whose team inch of these i contributed once okay kendrick perkins played for everybody god damn mellow gave vincent so he was a miami heat gave vincent and kendrick perkins is a crazy crossover lebrun lebrun this is lebron james

that's funny as well there we go that's probably the only player in the history of the NBA that can say he played with gave vincent and kentrick Perkins absurd longevity hell yeah oh god deion waiters that's hilarious right when you think about the young waiters just think about lebron james

i've always said that it's tough scene man honestly we can really say lebron for like have these in facts whose teammates are these Jalil okofour that is the wrong Isaiah Thomas at point guard Oh, okay.

I was like, that'd be crazy. No, that is small IT. Even if it was the real IT, I can't, he will not help me in just to start all in. I should have clarified that to Andrea, when I gave her the days. There's two Isaiah Thomas's in the history of NBA. Okay, so who will help us the most? LeBron James. DeMarter Rose will probably help us the most here because he's played with the Raptors, Hella, Spurs, Bulls, and now the Kings.

Yeah, real helpful, five French. Yes. Yeah, I can't think of none when it comes to Dilil Okapurna is the name. But he's been like a low-tier NBA player and he randomly gets signed. Yeah, Delofore is not the one to go off. I will say this is extremely difficult. This is difficulty level 1,000. If he gets this one out.

Lance Stevenson might help us. I will be shocked if you get this one right. Yeah. Lance Stevenson might help us because he was with the Lakers page. In fact, I'm a guarantee you get this one wrong. He was with the Hornets as well. Guarantee. I guarantee you won't get this one.

Who else has Lance Stevenson played for? Pacers, Lakers, who else? I can't remember. I guarantee the comments we'll get this one right either. I guarantee you can't comment right now

and tell me the right answer. Maybe you're right. Maybe the DeRosen is the piece that we need. DeRosan and Isaiah Thomas. Yeah. Is that combo okay? Can we get somewhere with it? Is this somehow?

Actually, no, he never. I was, okay. For a second, I was like, maybe Kyle Lari, but. No, not Kyle Lari. Okay, so going, maybe IT will help us a little bit Celtics

and the back half of his career is going to jack it's going to mess us up so badly okay these are journeymen that are bottom of the roster for everybody I think I remember Jill Ocifer possibly signing with the Knicks and maybe the Cavs maybe I don't remember the Nix

and a lot of teams shit we are in hell I think we got a white flag up white flag yeah Donovan Are you don't get one more guessing Shot out of the dark God damn it I don't know

J.R. Smith Incorrect Donovan wanted to do One last guess Go on Georgic You said Zach Levine Yeah Oh so close

Not really This is Lonzo Ball Oh Huh So Lonzo played with Michael Beasley And Lance Stevenson On that The first year

Lebron came On the Mee team Lanzo Ball was there When Magic Johnson Built that bullshit team They had Rondo, Lance Stevenson, LeBron, Lanzo, all these playmakers. And Isaiah Thomas came in. Oh my God, yeah, NIT came in.

I forgot about that. Yeah, that's the year where Rapalinka was like, we want to play with thrust. And he got a bunch of ball handlers. Yo, he's a jackass. It's not about Pace. It's about thrust. He's a jackass, man. What the fuck does that mean, Kobe Bryant?

That's crazy. And Jaloka-4, yeah, Jalukkah 4, signed with, I think it was the Pelicans for half a second. That is very true. I remember that. Yeah. This one was incredibly difficult. Whose teammates are these? Ooh, smells.

Bobon. Yeah, you got Bobon, Trayberg, Jalen. Finally, an all-star here. Luca Donchitz. This is Louca Donchich. Ooh, okay, look it. Okay. Yeah, that doesn't even...

There we go. He got that one. Courtney Lee mentioned. Whose teammates are these? Raymond Felton, LeBron. Oh, that's Ney-N-N-A-N-A-for-sur-sur-Chi-N-Carmelo-An-Nthony. This is not Carmelo-Anthony. That is true, by the way, though.

There could be, do you. Did Carmelo play with Jared Dudley? He did on the Lakers. Okay. But this is not that. Once again, I am right. Okay, so who's helping us the most? Probably LeBron.

That's a good place to start. Certainly not a nay. So who were the LeBron? Raymond Felton is just a footier to look at. He's just smiling. Yeah, I know. He looks like Mr. Potato had with that beard. He just looks like he's ready to eat.

That's crazy. He just does look like. That's crazy. that's wrong man but he does look like mr potato head uh jr smith this is jr smith easy one yeah

all you do is look at mellow's teammate yeah him him and show package deal yeah we have always together whose teammates are these Desmond Bain or Dwayne Desmond there we go Dwayne Dedman

Dwayne deadman damn it Jeremy Lynn That's Carter That's a yeller That's a Zeller That's Tyler it's Tyler it is Tyler Tory and Prince Disgusting group of teammates

Jeremy Lennon Vince Carter played for fucking ever Who will help us the most? I don't know because these are all Dermin except for Tori and Prince my help is the most, brough. We're in hell right now. That's awful. This is nasty, right?

Where is Tori and Plis played? Everywhere. Milwaukee. I think he was a Laker. He was a Hawk, obviously, too. I'm not thinking about this. He clearly has played for 11 teams. No, he hasn't.

He hasn't played for 11 teams. He's played for 13 teams. I don't want to do this. No, he has a Touring and Princess. He has only played for three teams, I believe. Play for like four, I think. Okay. Who else will help us?

I mean, okay, Jeremy Lynn isn't going to help us at all. Vince Carter isn't going to help us. Well, maybe, because Vince did stay at places a while. He did. He had multiple years. This guy might be a hawk, to be honest with him. Dwayne Dedman is not going to. Dwayneedman's crazy.

Yeah, I know. I'm not digging about him. Like, I just can't. Maybe it is a hawk. In Cody Zellon, I'm not thinking about you. It has to be. It has to be. Al Horford.

No. It is a Hawk because. Jeffty. No. Joe Johnson. No. Josh Smith. This is Trey Young.

And these are all players that are on Trey Young's rookie team. Yeah. This is all from running one roster. I do not remember Cody Zeller being on his name. He was on that. Tyler Zeller. He was on that team. Step in and say something.

I'm clearly naming all the Hawks. I knew it was a hog. I just did not. know which one it was like seeing Zeller threw me off like a mug man this is all from one roster the 2019 Hawks I should have got this one it was this was a layup this was a layup

this is the team that lost all those games and drafted DeAndre Hunter and Cody and Cambrides is that the same draft yeah no Cambrich was Tray Young's draft no it was no Trayon was the year after was he no Trayon was 2018 yeah it was so you're right you're right yeah so Cam and Hunter came

together 19 yeah because he was in R.J. Barrett in them's class you're right Yeah. And that's the last one. Damn, you guys couldn't get Trey to close it out. I hate that we couldn't get Trey. I hate it so much. The next thing we're going to do,

I'm going to name an NBA star, and I want you guys to decide what their best moment in their career is. So these are all guys that probably have, you know, some accolades to them. What's the one that you think about when you see the montage in their career? When you see their highlights

and they're inducted into Hall of Fame, what's going to be that pinnacle moment that stands out to you? So when you close your eyes, what do you see? Yeah, what do you imagine? First off, Steph Curry. That moment went.

he was going against the Lakers and he had a fast break dunk, slipped, busted his ass and ran to the quarter and caught a three, air balled of three. Stop paid. That's the most memorable moment. Probably the low income housing,

probably. Talk about the several times where he went ahead and threw his mouthpiece at the referee as well. Yeah. Low moments. I mean, there's just so many moments.

There's just so many. I think clearly for me is probably when he hit that, I don't know, 40 foot bomb against OKC back in 20s. That's a good pick. People were going to go to 2020 or maybe the first championship, whatever it may be. That moment was like, oh, this is the modern NBA.

That felt like a shot to my chest. Like, holy shit. That was like, welcome to the new superstar of the league that's going to change the way the games played forever. Like, that is a super memorable play despite it being regular season. Yeah, I think that moment right there. That might be like the last regular season game that mattered. Like, but as Bobby, it's 2022 probably. Him getting the finals of VP, him getting that championship post Kevin Durant.

Best moment though. you are right though like nobody nobody takes a game winning shot with one dribble inside a half court and you're in the middle of your 73 and 9 season that same game you came back

from a sprain ankle like it's that moment it's the it's game six against Boston after he wins or the in the 2015 finals when he

he crosses up Delhi on the wing. Oh, yeah, yeah. That three, those three are probably like my top three. I remember that specifically. The Chris Paul crossover is also. Oh, yeah, that one is well, obviously, super icon. It's probably that in the OKC one.

Yeah. It's OKC shot or the real answer is the 22 championship, but you want to get creative. It's a 20, it's a 2016 shot. Janus Antenacupo. Shit, man. And Tim going like this with the finals MVP trophy and the NBA trophy. Yeah. Like, you win the title.

It's like, that's it. That's the moment. 50 points in a close-out game like that would be the most memorable moment for basically any player in NBA history's career it's either it's either that or him staring into the camera after catching the lob after Drew Holliday gets to steal and he gets the lob that and him me mugging into the camera it's like hey man that whole game is magical man that's crazy that's one of the most memorable NBA

finals moments in my lifetime that game you have that said to said to father's stretch my hands oh yeah elite I felt like a was watching the crowning of a new top 10 player of all time in that night. I like, it felt like legend status being solidified. Also, remember in my head for no reason that night when he was arguing about the No, weirdo!

What the hell? Talking about when he was arguing over the goddamn ladder. You remember that? When he was arguing over the ladder, when he was arguing over the ball. He just be arguing. When he's arguing with the dad, Tyre's Oliver, and he's just be arguing. Just be mad.

Everyone is trying on us. Damian Lillard Oh, for me it's all the game winners Are there to be the one over It's the one over Paul George See, that is probably it But for me

The bubble Oh We were locked up at home With our friends Watching basketball back He was unstoppable Every game in the bubble It felt like every night

We're gonna watch and go for 70 That was a magical level of basketball There's one specific shot Where he hit He hit the back iron Skyed up like It felt like 80 feet in the air And just dropped

There was like four straight games of him being so ludicously hard to stop that people were saying in the first round of the playoffs they were going to beat the Lakers because the best 8th of all time. He was that good. I will say, though, the fact that T.J. Warren was also dropping 50 hours

like everybody's just going crazy in the bubble. It really is. I remember running out of my dorm room. When he hit the shot, ran out of my dorm, ran down the hall to our friend, who was a Blazers fan. It was like, oh, my God. Like that's, for me, that's the moment.

And also, because Paul George was just like, it's a bad shot. Yeah, it's like, who cares? You're going only. Yeah, it probably is that shot. Not conning meme that came from it. It definitely is. The bubble, special Damien Lillard performance.

He was the MVP of the bubble, isn't he? Mm-hmm. For that eight-game regular season. Kobe Bryant. Lokey. For me, it's kind of sad, but when he tore his Achilles and was able to take those free throws, it's like ultimate, like, mamba mentality.

You know what? The most memorable thing about Kobe is the, the mythology of Mampa mentality, and that is the Mampa mentality moment. So you're probably right. That probably is the one that gets like etched in stone is like, this guy just wants it more. Yeah. I just think about toughness and grit.

Or Loki is his last game. Like to end a 20 year career, like that was the most pageant ship ever seen for a last game. And to drop was a 60 yet in that game? Like that's Loki up there too. They put the 73 and 9 Warriors on ESPN2. Yeah, like, what? Yeah.

That was insane. Oh, wait. No, my bad. Kobe's last game was on ESPN 2 because they put the 739 Warriors on. on big ESPN, yeah. Wow. I would say, okay, the game winner that he had in 06 where he like does the fistball and like tears

the jersey or whatever, like that's, that's hard. Him throwing the lob to shack. It was so loud. Oh, man. James Hardin. That one crossover that he had. Send me up to hate when he was, he's to rock it. It was against, it was against the clippers.

Wesley Johnson. Yeah, he made Wesley Johnson's knees fucking buckle. and he had a step back left wing three that one right there it's a shame we can't do a playoff moment but going back

to regular season no I remember a lot of playoff moments oh god I remember the game winner he shot in 2018 over Kevin Durant and Steph Curry

together that game win shot in regular season over two defenders did he fall on the ground after that too yes yes I remember that oh man

I don't remember it was was KD and somebody else I think I thought it was it was Dremont I thought it was Dremont because he knocked his ass over the white fell

over two defenders he had a game winning three from like just above half court it was a ridiculous shot and that's the moment where I was like dude are they going to win the finals this year like they're not they're serious they're going bad for ban with the fucking warriors never believed it yeah well 27 missed 3 is probably the most memorable moment but here we go stat I don't know I won't do it I won't do it Kevin Durant I think it was for me personally super throwback but he did basically rookie year Julius Randall the worst way possible we hit him like with so many combo moves to get to a baseline I think it was a baseline jump shot you know what it is clearly it's a it's a combination it's my next

chapter is that picture it's the article is the players tribute articles this changed the history of the NBA my next chapter is clearly the most memorable moment of kevin rann's career it's a for me it's a combination because it's it's back-to-back years doing the same thing hitting a shot over lebron in the finals in the same spot in the same arena like that that's it Nah, that can't be his best. No, it's my next chapter. Yeah. Crossing his arms in the winery.

Also, another fantastic moment, too, is when he made a return to O.K.C. And he was, like, jawing with Russell Westbrook, and he called him a pussy. And he was, like, face to face with him, too. Okay. LeBron James. Cleveland! This is for you! That's my moment right there.

That's probably, that is clearly the answer. That's undoubtedly the answer. winning the scoring title I mean winning the scoring record is obviously up there too that was a big moment blocked by James blocked by James

Also the answer Play with Bronny is up there That's also a cool moment Yeah Man Who's to say This is so many moments

All these moments I don't know man Dunking on Kendrick Perkins Dunkin on Jason Terry So many moves All these moments God damn It's crazy

I'm gonna cry To the goat man I might actually cry The day he retires Like genuinely You will 100% cry. La Mello Ball. Let's see.

Best moments. Loki is not even from the NBA. He should recall some of his reality TV show moment. Y'all laughed like it wasn't a moment. Like that wasn't a thing. Like we weren't all tapped into Facebook watching Ball and the Family. The thing is you just said that. You're the only one I know who watched it.

Who is we? I don't know a single soul watched it either. I promise you. I was tapped in. I know you were. The whole wing of the dorm was tapped in. But no, it's clearly like him pointing at the at the ground like walking up. Oh, yeah, when it was like 13, 14 years old, yeah.

It's not even NBA. You're right. You're right. And it's that. I still do that to this day sometimes. I'm like, I try to tell you. Stop doing that. Luca Donchish.

It's not even though. It's a brown win horse being like, Scott's a loser. If he wants to be a winner, he has to do this. Yeah. Scoring 73 is up there Scoring 73 was ridiculous Not a good moment

That's actually one of the more Forgetable 70s I'm sure you want to forget it As against the Hawks It's kind of wild That was incredible Only reason is forgetable Because there's a couple others at you

His game winner Overgo Bear When we were in Cancun Dumb It went stupid My God That was that was pretty tough I'm making the finals with it

Either that or the game winner Over the Clippers On the Black Lives Matter Yeah I remember that too Lookie, we're talking about the best moment of his career. What's the best for him? Most memorable is getting traded to the Lakers. Now we can see the main character, win rings for the franchise,

that everybody wants some win rings for it. Yaddy, yada. It's the best thing never happened to him. Yeah, but let's talk about the taxes. Let's talk about the natural disasters that would be happening in L.A., man. Let's talk about the crime rate that's there. Luca, not a good money for you. The crime rate.

He's not a little calabasses. The crime rate is not an issue. Tim Duncan. Does this dude ever have a bad moment? His whole career is the best moment? Yeah, like he just had to be having a time of his life all the time in the most calm way. I mean, he had a bad moment, but like, we, we ain't got to speak on it. But like, I don't know what he's referencing.

I don't want to know. No, isn't that, isn't that great? No, please. He choked in game seven. What year are you talking about? 2013. Oh, yeah. He had, he had the bunny.

But honestly, they had, they had beat the Thunder in 2014 in the conference finals. And they had asked, they were like interviewing. him afterwards. You know, Tim Duncan is always just like Matt Calma or whatever. And afterwards he was like, he was like, we have four more wins. We're going to get it done this time. And I was like, Tim Duncan's talking trash? Oh yeah, that he had no chance.

It's over. It probably is dismantling the Miami Heat. Like they beat the shit out of the first like big super team of this era. Yeah. They truly, truly thrived them. It was unbelievable. Got him out there in five games. Shaquille O'Neal. I think when he dunked on that dude, he bagged

him and pushed him as well. Yeah, that's definitely the highlight you see of shack so is it winning the Miami chip and getting one more than Kobe nobody cares about him in that chip I'm just telling you that best moment for him no I mean he he lost the battle anyways

but I think like he lost the war but he won that battle he was ahead for a second you're correct I said that wrong yep doesn't matter doesn't matter it's probably the T-bag dunk yeah what else could they possibly be okay again yes joining the Lakers are the best

moment of his career, walking for agency, and becoming a Laker and having the first step of making maybe the best team to ever live before the Warriors, leaving the magic with the best thing to ever happened to him. Now, that was very true. You're looking at me like I'm wrong. You're looking at me like it's not true. Leaving the magic ones. Because it's completely not what we're doing.

That's the best moment. Signing in for agency. All right. You got it. Cameron Payne. What the hell? campaign had a run he had a moment

to me his best moment is probably making up all those creative handshakes with Russell Westbrook Yeah dancing Yes he cemented his spot As a good vibes guy Who can maintain a job in the NBA

It's either hyping up Russell Westbrook Why I hit them folks Or the picture of him getting a haircut It's definitely the haircut picture It's probably that That's probably the best moment I'll never forget it Or him hitting all those threes

For the Suns at one year Where he was really good in the playoff run I remember It's the haircut Is the haircut Yeah, let's say the haircut That's going down In the NBA history

That was incredible And I see in the segment That's funny The next thing we're going to do We're going to do a tier list Specifically we're going to do Tier lists of the best international players in the NBA

We did this a couple years ago But that was a couple years ago A lot has changed since then So I have a variety of international players to you from a variety different places in the world You know the NBA has the most international talent

We've ever had So I got 20 players from you right now We're gonna put them in a tier list S through F Okay So let's start off Let's set the benchmark Yana Sita Ncumbo

S tier Clear S tier, clear top three player In the world There's too many words Okay never mind We'll keep talking about something else Same thing for Nicole Yokic No words

Just toss them in Sier Keep moving Yeah Okay I don't see Oh there's Nicole Yokic Now let's move to a different tier What do you want to do

With Pascal Seaccom Huh Whoa I mean according to you That's the third best power forward in the league third best spot forward in Leiborne when it comes to international players

I think he might be it depends on how we're valuing like this right now I think he might be probably like back half of A hell not probably back half a If we're being stingy with S and we're only going to include

like the best of the best I think Siaqum is clearly B If you want to be stingy with S then okay then he's B yeah it depends on where you want to put Luca and B Yeah, yeah, that's the next tier. There's more stars that aren't top three players in the world right now, aren't like champions solidified legends that there's probably going to be some like,

you know, top 15 players in a world in A, B for an All-Star that has a pretty goddamn good resume for being a second star for teams. A champion. Champion made the finals again. That feels like B to me. Yeah, if Embed and Luka might be A, then for sure he's a tier below those guys. Franz Wagner. Right now, again, all-star caliber, but he's a step below.

He has a accomplished anything. I think he's like, he's low-key as good as Pascal, but the accomplishments are night and day that you can't put him in the same tier. Exactly. So, yeah. His game is still pending, though. It's not complete just yet.

So I think it should better not be complete. That three-four and better be developing still. Yeah. Okay, we can go see. You know, C's like all-star level, still putting it together or just low all-star level for whatever person. That feels good to me. R.J. Barrett.

F. See, don't do R. He's not. I think he's servedable. He has had some moments. He is. He is. is a legitimate NBA player.

These are all NBA players. You just say the most baseline competency to be on the list. That does not bode well for the argument against F. He's a good starter, though. He can start on the... He's a fine starter.

He's an average starter, I think. And for that reason, we got to put him in D, not F. Yeah, he's D, not F. Because there's... I already see some guys here that are below him. Okay.

You know, that'll be a debate. We'll get to that. Evita Zubats. D, probably. He's not. Are you insane? Listen, if he's good as Franz Wagner?

I'm sorry, my bad. I'm sorry. I almost learned him. Is he as good as Fron? I'm thinking he's like all-star ring. He's way closer to Franz and he is to R.J. Barrett. I was thinking he's going to be top, top tier of D.

I'm thinking, get the fuck out my face. He is C-tier. Okay. Way closer to Franz than he is to R.J. Barrett. We haven't done our center ranking yet. I think they're dim here in between, but okay. Did you say you want to put R.J. Bird and F? No. No, no, no. I mean, I said at first joking, but no, I don't think he's F. Okay. Yeah, but I mean, Franz is better, but I feel like, you know what? The Franz ain't better might just be ball handler bias. Zubach was also level last year, was top five DPPO-Y conversations at times, was one of the better offensive players in terms of complimentary bigs with guards. Like, he really checks all the boxes. Like, I'm not. If Franz is like just below All-Star, I have no problem seeing Zubach is just as good. Okay. That's fair. Christoph Sforzingis

It depends what we're talking about At this point D tier I'd certainly rather have Zubatch Certainly rather have Franz Yeah he might be DTier But assuming like he's healthy He is naturally like I can see

That's a lot of assumption Assuming something happens That's never happened before Then yeah we'll put him in C But no In terms of abilities He's probably closer than to RJ But I guess just for the practicality

You can put him in the top of D Sure Fine. I'm also not mad at putting him next to Zubuch if y'all wanted to be optimistic. No, I don't want to be optimistic. I mean, never mind. Okay.

I'd rather hate. Luca Donchich. Let's have their conversation. It's first player in eight year. No conversation. First player in 18th. So are we, uh, champions and MVP's get to BNS.

Okay, so we're doing like, resume is a difference? Because you know, like, we're going to be other names that we think are better than Siakum and we're going to be like, no way, we're putting them in the same convo as Luca.

I mean, yeah but also at the same time like if you okay so like luka does have an argument for top five but he kind of got to you got to get that get that stamp back again yeah because when you say he lost his stamp as top five player that means he's the sixth best player in the world and i feel like the other people in a are going to be quite a distance away from that seven best who knows but like he's i think luka talent level is way closer to the guys that are going to be to s than the guys are going to be in a talent level yeah but i we have to see he's made a finals it's not like you're talking about some bum no he's not he's not he hasn't won

multiple and every year and the same thing is going to happen this year lucas are going to be a top three MVP candidate coming into the season we're all this is finally going to be the year where he gets the MVP he hasn't done it yet the other two guys have multiple MVP and they have chips you think it's easy conversation fair enough i just want to say because like you know sometimes we'll do it based on their ability sometimes it'll be resume like you know i know exactly what you're hinting towards it's kind of awkward there in that way yeah can keep it going, Jamal Murray. See, that's C tier.

Probably, it's hard. Those guys are better than Jamal, I think. But he's within striking distance, and he has the playout resume. He rises. Yes, he's in the best team for him possible, but that's not his fault. He plays about as well as you want him to.

He does his job, yeah, for the most part. I think you see tier for sure. Back to C tier. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, like, I don't know, his Zobacher pretty close. No, C tier. Yeah, he is quintessential C tier.

Rudy Gobert. Is he B? That's a fucking four-time DPOI It sounds like he belongs to B It has to be B That's why I wanted to put Luca S because I feel like he has to be A I mean I guess Siakum is a champion but the 2019 thing is a little different

He did make a finals again this year Ridicobair has been a linchpin of two straight conference finals teams Four DPOIs One of the best defenders of all time like I think he deserves to be B for sure Certainly that feels to me like A whereas Luca should be S Luca is not No I don't think we should put Luca in

in S tier yet. Hmm. But we can put Rudy Gaubert at the top of B. Okay. I'm not going to be able to arguing for Gobert for 10 minutes, but I feel like he's more accomplished and better than Seacom.

If you can show me 30 seconds of him doing drop steps. Oh my God. Successfully. What does that have to do with anything? Not a damn thing. I will put him in A2. Okay.

Lou Dort. Champion Lou Dort. First team all D. Lou Dort. Clamps. I love that for Lou Dort. Yeah, put him and beat you. No.

But, like, Loki, does that deserve C? Yeah. I don't think it. He played a factor in the championship, obviously. He's first team all D. Like, that matters. He's one of the best defenders in the world. And he's a champion.

I think he belongs in C. And he's 40% from three. I think he belongs to C. So we're putting him in C, not D? Yeah. Okay. There we go. So he's getting crowded.

Alper and Sangoon. Very weird placement for him right now. Dang it My bad Lou Dort Might have to drop you Yeah My have to put you at the top of the Yeah Lou Dord D

Because Alperin Sengun That's put him right next to Franz Wagner He's on a better team More accomplishing Franz But I think in terms of like Their skill level They're very comparable to me Yeah

Okay Like Sengun got the All-Star nod Because he wasn't a two-seat Best Player Cool If Sengun was there I mean if Franz was in that place I think he would also be

All-Tor I think we need to make a quicker vision I think Luca probably needs to be S-tier Luke for sure needs to be S-tier Yeah, I've been thinking about this And the whole entire time I was really quiet Just really thinking about

How we're organizing this He needs to be S-tier Sometimes these conversations Get commandeered You guys make it way too much Our resume In terms of how good this player is Luca is like this is 20-25 players

Resumet is not This is an all-time combo Yeah Luca is S-tier in terms of abilities Let's put him S-tier Let's put him S-tier Donovan any comments I mean I'm my vote

It doesn't matter Okay you know why Victor Womeniama he deserves to be an A tier because there's a clear gap between Rudy and Tiacom you can't put Rueb in S tier two So exactly he cannot be with the MVPs

With the top five players in the world yet He can't be next to Rudy Gobert He is super Gaubert A tier is a perfect place for Victor Roman Yama Super Gouver nice Why can't a top five player Be with the top of the top of You give him that already?

No Why can't that happen? He's a top 10 player, that's for sure DeMontas a bonus Probably see Right next to St. Goon Yeah Probably like the best to see I guess

Put it behind Zubach Yeah And people are mad about that People some people Will consider him to be the most underrated player In the NBA and all this guys Yeah yeah yeah People think we should have put him in B

Point three bounds assist Goon Awesome 40% from three Oh my God Point six attempts a game Awesome That's what I'm saying

Take his more on price speaks But outside of that I don't care Very hard to win with the defense is always going to be something that he struggles with isn't going to elevate your team and it's pretty goddamn important

to have an elevator defensively at center unless you're Nicola Yokic and you're the best player we've ever seen offensively. Hard to win with him. I think C is fine. Yeah. Lowry Markening.

We got a lot of Cs today. It's raining Cs. Yeah. Which Loki makes me think we should move the guys in D down to F and split up C tier maybe. I don't know.

I don't know because F is about to get some some residents yeah okay so listen live marketing C tier he's next to the other guys that are all-star level not the best player in your team or if he is your team's not very good or maybe you have a great team that's well-rounded like Sengoon's team but you know maybe maybe we should move Sengoon up to B he was the all-star this year

something that none of these guys could say I started like Lari Mark and I guess if you want to salute him cool but I think he's just as good as Lurian I think so too I'm fine fine with you see yeah I mean shout out him he's on a really good team and doing his part but again these other guys a lot of them the Rockets would still be a really good team

if you swap them in okay Joel Embede S tier when you think about international basketball he is in the same breath as Janice Yokic and Luca

he's an MVP the only thing well so are we gauging off like now his body's cooked are we ever going to see him be at that level again to be an MVP level do we feel good about that

like even if he's healthy for 40 games next year do we feel like he even has the same ceiling with his leg problems no probably going to be a notch below it's probably be closer to Wemby

I don't know I'd rather I think we do know low key I'd feel safe there was a report that came out earlier a couple days ago

and it was some random doctor saying yeah I have really worries and I listen Wemby isn't exactly an insult I think we do know that he's probably closer to the back half

the top 10 players in the world now than the top three guys that are like he would be the worst in S tier for sure so yeah I can put him ahead of and just because

obviously if this was two years ago you can't if this was two years ago obviously Dwell and B would be next neck and neck with yonis neck and neck with yokech all these guys it's just the legs of deteriorating i don't think we're ever going to see a long stretch again where he's averaging 36 points

your game being one of the best scores of all time yeah yeah that's not as fall that's that's not the yeah it's out the window at this point the good old days on a round no more don't make me cry dylan brooks f tier i'm sorry no he's indeed he's a very useful player he's done really well than r j barrett pretty easily yeah i'd rather have dylan brooks on my team for sure that's an interesting debate i don't think it is it's simple dilapur's a legit good defender he can shoot yeah he's like a worst version of lewd war but i think he's not even that much worse he's not even that much worse yeah same level player same level of where but like luke doris is worse defense that's what they're a little bit worse defense here no i i i'm not hating on door i'm just like

door is a level above dillam brooks i guess i suppose whatever that means well like their levels are pretty damn close when it comes to the archetypes sure sure I'd rather have Dort, yeah, a little more, I was going to say a little more consistent of a shooter. That's a crazy thing to say. This is a nasty debate, but they're close. They're both spot-up threes. The only thing about Dylan Brooks that does kill it for me

is his tendencies to do like, ooh, killing basketball and kind of shoot you out the game here and there. Lou Dort does not do that. He knows where he lies. I feel like that's a little bit overstated. Houston Rockets fans would disagree with that. I don't, true. Listen, you got to give him a few.

It's like Marcus Smart. You got to give him a few to calm down. That is true. Got to let him eat too. It's like back in the 2000s. He's got to throw the big guy in touch. Keep me engaged. Keep engaged.

Josh Giddy. F. F, easy F. I keep going back to the R.J. Barrett thing. I don't know if he's worse than Roger. I'd rather have R.J. Barrett than Josh Giddy. If you wanted to build a championship level team and I put a gun to the back of your head and I said, yo, big between these two. If you don't want to chip, you're dying.

I'll sell the team. You're dead. I'm shooting you. Low key, I might rather have Giddy as a six. man, then RJ Barrett is my starting small forward. See, now, why show me something that I can't have? Why show me an FTA, but I'm not going to put anybody in there?

Because it's coming. No, that's crazy. It's already here. That is a forced ass a-o. It's already here. Is it going to put Josh Gidea? Fuck it. Okay, listen. I will gladly be outvoted on hating on Josh Gidea. I won't stop you guys. Alexar. F2. There we go. That's the FTA I was waiting for.

And listen, I think it'll be really good. I think we'll get there. I think we'll get to be D-tier next to Chris Sops for Zingus. Maybe C tier on his best day if he really, really develops offensively. But rookie year, he can be F tier. Okay. Shea goes Alexander. That is S tier above Luca Dodgich.

Yep, yep, this is above. This is the second best player in the world. I'm willing to say it now. I don't know if I can get there. Yeah, I just can't discount Yannis in the force that he is. But it's not crazy. It's not an insult. Yeah, I never said it was an insult.

But I just can't get there just yet. but again you got it it's just summer the more weeks that happened the more days we are removed in the championship i can get there i will get there too far you get there the more Kyle kuzman minutes that i see the more kpj minutes that i see as well i can get there okay i like this tier list donovan how do you feel about the lucca placement does it does it feel better no but um it's just so very clear that like all these other guys the the top three guys have the resume and they're at the peak of the prowl right now where lucas it feels like he's in his own limbo tier of like trying to restore that yeah but that's like so again overstated

though we act like he was like horrible and like he's washed and is like does he still got it because he had one ify year coming off of injury like would you be shocked if he's back to being first female NBA next year nope I will not be like you're thinking about it come on you you should be shocked she's going to have that on lock for now yeah he I'm not putting in that come on come on

I understand it but I'm not doing it is there anybody in Cee when we're up to be because he's pretty fucking fat Sangu I would love to move up Larry marketing

him but he had a very forgettable year yeah we can move Sengun if you want people are in the comments are going to say put Sengu'd be

I would like send him to be in B okay I don't care I mean that's just like because he was on a two seed fine we don't respect wins

we don't respect winning I see got to get the jail and her talking points off no matter what the sport is bro this is TD3 this is not house call it's actually like it's actually kind of ridiculous that we really gotta do it right now but like it is kind of wild wrong show wrong channel

I love Joe and his discourse it bleeds into everything it's not even about that but like on his birthday you're doing a little extra more oh yeah this birthday that's why it's on top of mind okay does I respect it sometimes you got you gotta put on did you know he showed me that he he lived like 13 minutes away from his high school.

Because he's from, he's from channel view. He's from like down the block. That's in Houston? Mm-hmm. Oh, please. I didn't even know that. Go there. Stop, but you were claiming, you were, you claim every Atlanta, Georgia person.

I don't do that. One time I heard you say you saw Quabo at a gas station growing up. That's a complete lie. No, it was not. You told me the story the whole thing. No, I never did. You told me at a Fanta or something? What the fuck are you talking about?

Stop. That's such a lie I did see Bryson Teller on my campus one day That's very true Next thing we're going to do We're going to pick the next breakout star At every single position

Point guard through center Who we think is going to make the leap To start them next season So young player that you think Is going to take a leap by storm Make it all start a leap next season Okay So point guard

Who are we expecting to be the next All-Star participant? Ooh, I got to look at teams, man okay so Kate already made the leap so Kate isn't there anymore

because he's already an all star now it's not out here anymore either no well he's not point guard well maybe he well sometimes

he played point guard last year last year but no not counting him as a point guard do we feel like Stefan Castle

has that in him no I don't okay I don't it's gonna be hard for you that yes

that's the right thing it's going to be hard for him to do I do think that Stefan Castle has the talent but the fact that Fox is there

Angela the harper's there they're they're gonna ask him to play less point guard than he did and so i think a man's gonna be the starting point guard next year do we feel like a man has another leap in him next year being the full-time ball handler i think that you think so over fervant oh my bad about he's starting shooting guard so yeah that's the conversation but he's gonna be moved up to guard position is what i mean and i think it'll be more of a ball handler because you're gonna have kd and jabari as a fat forwards i think with dill and bruce gone i think he's going to be like more of a ball handler yeah that could that could be okay we'll say that you're right he deserves to be on the

so for sure. I don't know for point card though. Do you want to go Peyton Pritchard? Because someone's going to have to get those buckets up. Somebody's getting the buckets on the Celtics. Yeah. Somebody will be scoring those 10th point. That is disgusting.

It's real though. But you are correct. You are right. And listen, we don't think he's not going to be like an all star, but he's going to be a breakout player. He's going to be viewed much higher than you this year, I think. Yeah. Do you think the Celtics, if the Celtics are able to be like a seventh seed or something like that, maybe six, he has a lot to do with that.

And I think he'll be an all-star. Listen, we keep saying that, I don't know if that's going to happen. I think they're going to, Jalen Brown's going to spray in his ankle in February and miss the rest of the season and they're going to be like the 15th seat. That's possible. I think that's going to happen. They might be that before. Okay. Shooting guard.

Do we feel like Brandon Miller has it? Is this going to be the year? I was going to say Jeremy King. We get a full year of Jeremy King and he can actually break out. A full year, Jared, Jared. Who's going to be a break out there, though? Him or Vijay Edgecombe? we can say VJ it's going to

but it's hard to call like a rookie a breakout so I'll go with Jeremy King Jeremy King's a good option at the shooting guard against Stefan Castle shooting guard could be an option

if you feel like you see that ceiling I think a lot of people would probably pick Brandon Miller as the pick here yeah I think I'd like to go Brandon Miller because his NBA

he's not like he's so in he's such in a great area in his career because uh jaden ivy jade and ivy is a really good answer too

as well because he's exactly what the pistons need. He'll get the opportunity for sure but I don't, yeah. I'm not confident enough that it's going to happen for me to pick him here but shut up. I feel more confident of Brandon Miller for sure. Let's do him. Or Jerry McCain, Brandon Miller, Jerry McCain, who who's in a break-up. Brandon Miller fits the definition a lot better

too. I'm just, you know, not confident again. That like the next year's going to start. I'll go Jerry McCain. I think that team, if Dwell and B plays 40 games, will be trying to win, we'll be healthy, we'll have more depth. He'll be a big part of that team being good. are good and just all the simple nature that what we saw in 15 games if we see over 82 he'll be considered one of the better role players in the league yeah that's that's my

guy I'm picking them small forward to me Franz Wagner if Franz Wagner isn't an all-star next year it's probably because the three-point shot is still terrible and that'll be a damn shame because he should be an all-star next season man it better be it better be it's it's been looking scary for two straight summers now I need that three to fall what he did last year when Palo Baner was hurt in the first half of the season special all-star level clearly do that already two games you will be an all star in the east repeat the exact same shit that you just said and instead of franz vogner say that for jalen johnson

because he's like good you can play jangl johnson powerful but i don't know they have more talent now so is he going to have like more usage to put up better numbers most definitely because he like the talent that we got needs playmaking assisted so he definitely could be up there i think he's the answer for that him in power forward yeah oh yeah i don't see any other power for is that i'm like all-star on the way there's not really any young ones in the pipeline line that haven't become stars yet. Yeah.

Most of the young star power forwards have, like, made that leap. Unless you want to say Palo Van Carrel is also going to, low-key, Palovin Carroll might also be a breakout star of next year. He might finally become, he made an all-star team, but he's not like, if you look at the all-stars last year, he's one of the least effective ones. He might be going away from the term break-out. He can take a leap, but he can't break out. He's already broken out.

I think going from, like, one of the lower-tier all-stars to being all-N-B-A-level is a breakout. No, that's just an improvement, but it's not breakout. Yeah. I don't think it's a breakoff See, this is how the definition of like most improved player

gets messed up People like you Fucking old heads Grandpa's holding on a tradition That would be a big ass improvement That'd be most improved player Top season, I'm not gonna lie If he became first team all NBA

I would push some most improved player Nasty work Nasty work similar to like Never mind You just really want to represent Malcolm Brogden so bad Okay so people at the bottom Leave represented

It's not even about Malcolm Brockton So you go Jaylon Johnson to Power Forward? Yes. Okay. Center. Can't go Wemby. He broke out. All-Star.

Exactly. Can't do that. Low-key Chet, but he's a champion. People know he's good. Just needs to get healthy. So we're not going to go him. I don't know. You could go him.

Can DeAndreighton re-breakout? Hell of it. He'll re-breakout. He's the only player who deserves that conversation. Lo-key, he can. That's what's funny. Like, he can re-breakout with Luca Dungeons. Re-breakout.

I almost feel like he certainly will re-breakouts. But we don't got to call him a breakout star. I kind of want to go Donovan Klingin. I feel like he's going to be like a DPOI level. I like that. I like that. Who else? The center position.

See, the center position. It's really, it's really interesting. Klingin. Kling, he got, he got a shoot. Maybe Zach Eady. He's going to be out also for a side. Yeah, he's missing some time. Oh, I did forget.

And he's an older prospect. I don't know if he has like a big leap coming. I forget, is a 22-year-old. Jay Huff. He's going to be some who can breakout, bro. He is the definition of a break-out-upers. Yeah, he has, I think he's going to desert. He's going to earn that starting spot for the Indiana Pacers.

I think he's like the option. It is. Yeah. Locating, we just go chat because like, I think he's going to get healthy and prudent people that like, oh, he clearly is an all-strel-level player where some people are going to remember the finals and be like, bitch-made, skinny legs, can't jump. And it's ridiculous. Yeah, so why not go chat earlier?

I think he's probably the easiest and should be the most consensus answer. Yeah. People are going to look up and realize, oh, wow, he actually is amazing. And oh, wow. Okay, so he is going to go back to back. Like, that's going to be how they improved. And he's going to be a first time all-star, too, as well. Yeah, along as he's healthy, almost guaranteed it'll be a first time all-star.

Okay, Chet sounds good. Chad, so there we go. So who's our point guard again? Peyton Pritchard, Jared, Jerry McCain, Franz Wagner, Jalen Johnson, Chad Holmgren. Okay, not bad. I feel solid about it. I think all those people will break out next year. Not bad.

Yeah. All right, Mo, what is the next thing we're going to do? Ooh, we did it recently, not on this channel, but on house call. We're going to do five categories game. I have FAF. FF, yeah, so I have five categories, and I want to see if you guys can name the category, name the player without saying the same name as me. Okay.

All right. You ready? Yep. So first category up. Last time I got the category five, but it was Fragilangs. I really lost in category two. We didn't know. Level one.

Players who won rookie of the year. All right. Okay. Three, two, one, go. Stefan Castle. Ben Simmons. Got him. What are the odds?

Stupid. What are the odds? All the legends he could have been. I did not think he'd pick Ben Simmons. Oh, my God. Wow. It's like one in 78. Oh, fuck.

Okay. What the hell? Okay Alright Donovan Carrying the torch All right Level 2 A player who made

An all defensive team Last year Okay Only 10 players Level 2 That's tough No it's not tough All right

I got it Three Three two One Caruso You are correct A man Thompson Caruso made

Alty Thompson Yeah I believe he did Okay Wait Let's double check that Do you play that All defensive team

I was either going to say him or do you're no he did not he did not damn you're out i was he didn't say him a dort lewdore did make it all defensive he made first team i'm going dork and i'm in i'm still i'm still here i guess you're right but also you're wrong i guess you're right you're but also you're wrong but we'll just continue to move okay yeah but i'm not wrong i'll give it to him i'm not wrong because you made me wrong i did not make you wrong so we move a player who scored over 70 points in a career in a game

in a game yeah yeah but like at any point or last year at any point I was like I don't anybody did it last year yeah

okay you ready I can do like six players on top of you think of over 70 that's not a big pool

three two one David Robinson okay I was gonna say the same thing about as you that's a good pool I knew he wouldn't say

every Robinson okay okay there we go level four can you name an Eastern Conference

finals MVP, the Larry Burt trophy. Man, there's been four of them. You're cooked. This guy's dumb. You have four in hands to choose between. Can you rise to the occasion? All right.

Three. Who is he going to pick? Who is he going to pick? One. Seacum. Okay. Got Jason Tatum. He also, did he win that?

Oh, he won the first one. Okay. He won before they made the finals. Okay. Yeah. I was like, didn't Jaylon Brown famously win that? Okay. Level five.

Can you name a player who? won an MVP, All-Star MVP, finals MVP, and an Olympic gold medal in the same year. In the same year? Yes,

all that in the same year. There's like two players. You better pick the right one. You are correct. Two players. I'm mad. Okay. Yep.

Okay. You ready? I don't even remember who the second player. There's only two guys who I think that they can do it. And it makes complete sense. Is it the goats?

Yes. Ah. three, two, one. Brung. Ah, shit, he got it. Damn. See, I knew he was going to try to get me on what I thought he was a little but I knew what he knew what I knew, so I knew.

Sometimes you don't know what he knows, which you know, but you really know, even though he doesn't know. I never picked Jordan for nothing, but today I picked him. Just to psych you out. And I knew what you knew what he knew, that you knew what he knew. And so we knew, but he didn't know. I don't know if they knew what we knew. He didn't know that we knew.

This is why Jordan is not my goat. you never you never go ahead and and we knew that you knew that exactly if you're still here comment did you know what I knew what he knew what he knew that he knew comment that understand I got the last laugh because he who laughs first last first laugh last first laugh last all right and we'll see y'all next week to see if you know what he's doing