The Deep 3 Podcast - We Ranked Every Shooting Guard In The NBA | Ep. 98

Episode Date: July 19, 2024

Ranking the top 30 Shooting Guards in the NBA! Check out the TD3 merch: https://the-deep-3-shop.fourthwall.com/ Join the TD3 discord!: https://discord.gg/RUkjpMPp7E Listen on Spotify!: https://open....spotify.com/show/3elbbqVumwqz8wlIdknsLW Listen on Apple Podcasts!: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-deep-3-podcast/id1657940794 Follow us on TikTok!: https://www.tiktok.com/@thedeepthree Follow us on Instagram!: https://www.instagram.com/thedeep3podcast/ Isaac's twitter: https://twitter.com/byisaacg Muhamed's twitter: https://twitter.com/Mojo99_ Donnavan's twitter: https://twitter.com/Dsmoot3D 0:00- Intro 2:05- 26-30 19:23- 21-25 35:07- 16-20 55:32- 11-15 1:07:35- 6-10 1:24:50- Top 5 1:36:15- Producer Corner 1:50:53- TikTok Time Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Transcript
Discussion (0)
Starting point is 00:00:00 So Donovan has the hiccups. My voice is gone because I've been sick for a week. And we're here to rank the best shooting guards in the NBA. It's getting to it, man. I'm sick to my stomach, bro. There's really not. There's just nothing to say. We are fighting.
Starting point is 00:00:14 The title says at all. Exactly. Listen, we're fighting through everything. They have it. Like I said, week two of TD3 ranking season, 2024 is here. Last week you guys saw us to do the top 30 point guards in the NBA. I think it was a pretty good rankings. It was very, uh, very, very,
Starting point is 00:00:30 calm. You know, normally you argue a lot. We have a lot disagreements. We were very in lockstep there. I think the biggest disagreement was Moe underrating Fred Van Vleet, which whoopty fucking do, you know? No, definitely it's Kyrie Irving being or Derek White being better than Kyrie Irving on Donovan's list. That was
Starting point is 00:00:45 for sure. That was a couple. A couple weird ones. But this week, this week, listen, shooting guard is the weakest position in the NBA by far. Our list are surely very different and it's going to lead this a very good conversation. I expect this one to be far less tame. and I already know I'm calling my shot right now last week I knew that Mo's number 24 was going to be a terrible ranking I'm guessing number eight your eighth your eighth ranked shooting guard is going to be stupid this this week so okay you guys see that remember that and then when we get to number eight comment
Starting point is 00:01:30 on YouTube, do us a favor, drop a like and subscribe, audio platforms, leave us five stars, leave a review, all of that. Let's get straight into ranking the top 30 shooting guards in the NBA. The cranium is crazy. Oh my God. I mean, I don't know what to say. Pray on eaters rejoice. So like usual, we're going to do this in blocks of five. If you guys haven't seen any of our rankings before, we start at 30 and make a way up to
Starting point is 00:02:03 one, you know, going five by five, we all take turns revealing our list and debate it piece by piece. Let's get straight into it. Who's up first for number 25 through 30? Donovan. Okay. Donovan, talk us through this first group. Let's go.
Starting point is 00:02:16 Wow. All right. Here's what I have. I have Duncan Robinson at 30. Bilalculubali at 29. Ayodosumu at 28. Wow. Colin Sexton at 27.
Starting point is 00:02:30 And Gary Trent, Jr. at 26. How, we feel this list could have started off with the bang. It could have started off of the bang, but it started off with the, what the fuck are you thinking? Why is Colin Sexton in the bottom five? Colin Sexton is number 27. Gary Trent Jr. above Carlson's Sexton is insane. That is disgusting. You already set yourself up.
Starting point is 00:02:53 Listen, first of all, Duncan Robinson had to be on this list just because we needed 30 names. Okay. that's so that that's that's one so don't don't look at this and be like oh colin's in the same tier no he's actually several tiers ahead right i just had to put somebody at 30 right i don't listen i'm sorry colin you play in utah like i there's just there's just a tax okay so it's a taut tax you know what i'm saying there's just a tax that comes along we're playing for for the jazz and i don't know like he is a guy that I still like even after all all of these years I'm still very unsure about what about like what
Starting point is 00:03:38 Colin Sexton is and when I look at the guys in this bottom 30 or in this bottom five outside of Duncan Robinson a lot of it is a lot of unknowns like I think below is still a very big unknown I think Gary Chan Jr he's you know he's up and down in terms of his shooting percentage he just had a really good, you know, shooting year last year, but there's still, like, on a year-to-year basis, you're like, are you going to get that high-end Gary Trent Jr. shooting year? I don't know. For I. Adisumu, he plays on the Bulls and their situation is crazy. So, again, I don't really know, like, what I.O. de Sumu can do in a top-tier situation. It's a lot of question marks here. And as you will see from the rest of my list, outside of, like, the top four guys,
Starting point is 00:04:22 everybody else for me is about fit it's about you know scale of you know scaleability and it's about a known commodity and it's more about what I know that you can do and I'm just not sure what these bottom five guys can do so that's where that that's what the list starts off shooting guard is a weird position right now because if you're a ball handling that's capable of you know creating with a ball on your hands you're listed a point guard if you're a big wing who can like be that three and d guy and play up you'll listen to small forward shooting guards kind of like the land of the misfit toys besides a few guys who are true shooting guards so we're definitely dealing with some flawed players so that's probably why you're going to see a lot of differences here some of us value
Starting point is 00:05:03 different things and you clearly don't value the undersized slashing guard that is calling section and i understand that he's a poor defender he has a high three point percentage but it's on really low volume right he can hit a catch a shoot three point shot but he's not like a gravity shooter. So I can understand why that type of player doesn't scream out to you as being super valuable. But me, I think he's awesome. And I have him in the top 15. I'll just spoil that. I have him incredibly high. Top 15. Wow. I don't know why. But I just can't take your voice seriously at all, Isaac. It sounded like you smoke literal crayons before this point. But I agree with you for sure. And I got Colin Sexton around the same range and not going to
Starting point is 00:05:46 to spoil it just yet. You've got to watch a full episode. But yeah, for sure. I agree with the whole Colin Stux and Tick. I think he's completely miscasted and misspelled. I don't know if Bilal Kulubali should have made this list because everyone else is like, we know what you're good at in the NBA. And of course, like, we have an idea of what Bilal is good at. I think he's going to be a great player. But I don't know if he's great enough yet to be like at number 29. I'm but again, again, we need numbers. We needed numbers. This position, like the depth at this position and the drop off at every single level like forget the drop off from the elite two guards to like the mid two guards the drop off from the mid two guards to the rotation guys it's a
Starting point is 00:06:26 steep it's a steep decline every single time that that you get there so it's like i like you know no i hear you you're right i understand that this isn't a very thoughtful like separation here you're not putting a ton of time into 26 or 30 but it doesn't matter stand on that shit we're here to argue Your list is stupid I promise you When we get higher up When we get higher up I will stand on some stuff
Starting point is 00:06:51 Yeah But I think Sexton's great man I think a lot of young guys Get they're on team like the Jazz Right who like you say he's on the jazz They're not good right now They've been stealth tanking In the second half of years
Starting point is 00:07:01 For a couple years now To try to get high picks Some young guards Will get put in that position And have to chuck And it'll hurt their You know their numbers Because they're just forced to take a lot of bad shots
Starting point is 00:07:10 Like in McHale Bridges or whatever I think Sexton was given the highest usage of his career is the highest usage of his career and performed the best I've ever seen him he has a 28% figgle assist percentage for a combo guard which is one the best in the league and despite having a 20 near 30% usage he shoots 68% at the rim 42% from mid range and 40% from 3 that's just crazy efficient for a guy that's creating his own shots with very little playmaking around him not going to lie I hate to say this but tearing his ACL was one of the best things that ever happened to him bro having to
Starting point is 00:07:43 rework his game from like dirt and being traded from Cleveland to Utah again like city for city who's who's saying that either one is better going to Utah is one of the best things that happened to him as well being coached um what's their head coached him again well Hardy one of the smart business I almost said Jane Hardy but will Hardy one of the biggest blessings that he's had in his career coming from Cleveland to Utah in Cleveland he was viewed as he was supposed to be, you know, one of the guys in their rebuilding phase post-Lebron. And for him to get rid of the stigma in his career of just being like a short 5-11, 6-1, 6-foot, whatever ball-chucker greedy player who just wants to get his own and completely revamping his
Starting point is 00:08:29 game. He's always, he's been pretty efficient throughout his entire career. But here it's a different type of efficiency that just you won't see on the court. It's less force buckets and more with a. the flow of offense within the flow of offense the second half of the season they kind of figured out the rotation they ended up running with john collins as a five and really figured out they want to play this five out a lot of motion really okay c sq basketball and colin sexton was like the biggest benefactory they started him full-time second half of the year and he was just a downhold demon
Starting point is 00:08:58 i need him on the lakers you keep on saying this but good luck i want to speak in existence man he'd be so perfect on the lakers sorry but i man who's too bad they're not getting anybody who we're roasting next give it up all right yeah who's next i hope is me cool all right before we read down my list first things first need to be clear you guys cannot chat asize me today they got me working on my birthday y'all all right so with that being said oh yeah happy birthday mo we forgot to say at top of the show this is coming out in like two weeks because we're stock calling episodes ahead of donovan's wedding so today as of july 9th happy birthday mo thanks oh shit if i have one birthday request like actually dead ass i need like 10,000 likes on this podcast
Starting point is 00:09:42 we need 10,000 you're laughing at creon ladies you hear that shit he's laughing at you he acts that that's unattainable he don't know y'all like i know y'all he's not in the trenches like i'm in the trenches y'all do that shit right now happy late birthday moe thanks i appreciate it at 30 10 minutes in but but but you're prefacing all this that is not going to let me let you get away with the shit list if it's shit
Starting point is 00:10:08 I just want to let you know. 30. Ayutusumu. 29. Caleb Martin. 28. Cam Thomas. You deserve an appearance
Starting point is 00:10:16 for the tank job that he's about to do for Cooper Flag. 27. Duncan Robinson. And 26 is Bogdan Bogdanovich on the Atlanta Hawks.
Starting point is 00:10:25 Okay. Cam Thomas was my first cut. I'm cool with him being in, though. I honestly, for who I have a 30, I probably should have put Thomas in because why not. Because I forgot about Caleb Martin.
Starting point is 00:10:35 That's not somebody I really considered. That's interesting. We put in Caleb Martin. I mean, it's hard to gauge. I guess, I don't know. I've always, I've always looked at him as like a forward. I didn't know. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:10:47 Okay. I mean, listen, if he's a two guard, okay, yeah. Even if he makes your list, then, yeah. He wasn't going to make the small forward list either way. So let him get on the list. That's fair. That's hilarious. Yeah, exactly.
Starting point is 00:11:00 But yeah, like, I think I know already probably for you guys, Bogdan Bogdanov is didn't make your list. One of the better shooters in the, the league. Ooh, he thinks I'm doubting him. If you put him in this list, I hope you had him higher than me. Of course, I put him on this list.
Starting point is 00:11:15 Have you seen the shooting guard position? Bogdahn is certainly top 30. Dude, I look at the shooting guard position and think I could be top 50. What are you talking about right now? I'm so lying. But yeah, Bogdan, healthiest season that he's ever, that he's ever had over the last few years in his Atlanta Hawks tenure. Sniper, Duncan Robinson made the leap as a shooter.
Starting point is 00:11:35 Cam Thomas fucking bucket in whatever way. Caleb Martin is a great sister army knife and I do assume a great defense and he shot 40% from three nice I look forward to seeing what Iyo does next year when you know post Marta Rosen he's such an interesting player he's like hyper efficient it's like a 59% true shooting he's incredibly efficient but most of it's not self-created you know like he shoots incredible well at the rim and out of low volume incredibly well from three low volume it's just a weird player because he plays off of so many other perimeter guys there and fills in the holes but he does that so well so I really want to see how that scales up usage. It's going to be interesting. He hasn't had the ball in the sands since he was in
Starting point is 00:12:11 Illinois. So we'll see. This is going to be such a, it's going to be such a weird year for Chicago. But yeah. Yeah, it's going to be very strange. What's the line of going to be? Kobe, Levine, modest, Patrick Williams. I hate that Levine is still there. They need to get rid of his ass, bro. Nobody wants him. Get rid of him. He's expensive and he's hurt a lot. It's tough. Dick. What do you mean nobody wants him? Like, I'm sure there's someone who wants them. It's probably the bulls being stingy and acting like they aren't the dumbest front front office in the entire NBA.
Starting point is 00:12:44 Like, it's tough to come up of $43 million a salary for a guy that's always heard. It is tough. With this whole new second apron shit going on, okay, that makes a lot of sense. Yeah, it's a lot of money. But I think we'll get to him later in the conversation. So yeah, for sure, for sure. Let's show my next five. I have Bogdanovich at 26, Trent Jr. at 27, Brandon Pajemski at 28,
Starting point is 00:13:07 buddy healed the 29 and Andrew Nemhard at 30. What? Nemhart at 30? Yeah I was just saying I was about to say Mo I know Mo's me piss because I remember we were watching the Pacers versus Celtics in Cancun for Donovan's Bachelor Party and you were over there drooling over Nemhart
Starting point is 00:13:23 I was like oh this is your guy you love Andrew Nemhart Nimhart. I love me some Newhart He's good he is great playoff series I just kind of want to see it for a longer period I try to overreact to small sample sizes and during regular season he was good he played his role it's a crowded back court i don't think he's bad at all but when you compare his production and everything to people above him like what is he done that bogdanovitch hasn't done you know like it's tough yeah that's there lock some shit down
Starting point is 00:13:50 that's what he does be a consistent secondary treasury i would i wouldn't he's a great he's he's a good he's he's good he's not a bad defender but he's quite literally the reason why indiana's like what the fuck do we do a bened at mather now because this guy right here is good at what he does in space a four and he's not like a black hole at times that bened mather can do this tells me the reason the reason they're saying what the fuck is wrong bet his matherin is because he can't defend shit off ball and he's always hurt that's the biggest problem benedick matherin not nymard's fucking appearance i'm his appearance makes it harder you know i think it makes it easier it makes
Starting point is 00:14:24 it a relief that they don't have all the chips on them hard but i know what you're saying i know what you're saying and doesn't that's why mathern isn't on my list and nymard's above him yeah yeah listen it was tough for me put jemsky this low i want to put him a lot higher. It's just, there's, like Donovan said, there's a lot of guys on this role that are like role players in this next 15 players or so. And that when you really compare their production, you know, these are young guys. They're going to be better. But when you compare it to like, let's use Bogdanovich as a benchmark, Bogdanovitch is like productive and useful. And especially next year when DeJonte Murray's gone, he's back and starting, going to be
Starting point is 00:14:57 a really useful player, it's hard to compare them. And like, when you really compare their production, their stats, what they've done, what you know of their skill sets, it's hard to put these young guys over guys like that that are just like really productive role players yeah that's fair i just i think my biggest concern with this is the fact that buddy healed is over him buddy healed i and so like surprise so it's like surprise buddy healed didn't make my list um buddy really no i think i'm not a big buddy healed fan uh right now neither am i and so i i think that like i don't know mema was really really good and for like for these guys for these guys at the bottom and especially when you look at like their playoff runs and buddy heel being basically unplayable for like 85% of that sixer series
Starting point is 00:15:46 and nemhart coming in still being able to produce offensively give give the Celtics and get really give everybody like a hard time on the on the defensive end I think that like he's moving into a space with the pacer's because of because of a benedict's you know lack of availability he's gotten the opportunity to show that he can be like the two guard for them so i think he should be a little bit higher but yeah it's it's really just buddy over at nampart everything else is fine yeah you can swap i don't give a shit about buddy i know i know i know you know just because like regular season value and uh nembar was great i mean listen nemhard average 21 and 7.8 in the four games against the celtics she's 47 percent from three
Starting point is 00:16:30 It's four games, though. I get it. I get it. It's four games. The previous series is 52% from three, and the previous one was 45% from three. I have learned from Rui Hachimura to not put too much stock
Starting point is 00:16:40 into short-term three-point variance on the playoff setting. Good for him. Like, it's very good that he roast that occasion. I'm not knocking him at all. Like, if you want to put him higher because you trust he can do this going to next year, to whatever degree, right?
Starting point is 00:16:51 Obviously, he's not going to shoot that well. But if you think he can take that momentum and be the starting two guard, I don't got an issue with it. I'm just, as a general rule of thumb, trying to get myself to overreact less to short-term playoff sample sizes and yeah that's the only thing
Starting point is 00:17:03 is I compared that to regular season and listen regular season he wasn't top 30 playoffs he was he was amazing so I put him on the list but it's like I'll give it time until he continues to climb higher we're just in different parts of our journey into the regular season he took a step until like okay this you can like
Starting point is 00:17:19 legit be a starter through all the things all the inconsistencies whether it be Tyrese Hallibor and or in his like in and out of the lineup or you know them getting into Pascal Siakum and figuring out his rhythm or whatever. I think Nemhard has been one of the most consistent players on that roster, although when you look at Nemhard, I don't know how consistent of a score he's going to be because
Starting point is 00:17:42 of his lack of creativity and like burst of dribble and stuff like that. And I don't know if he is, if that's like going to be his calling part card. But for what he is right now, six four, six five, two doesn't need the ball on his hands to necessarily dominate for real. And also, um, he isn't just. like a black hole on offense or defense he's someone who can do who you can play through any situation to man and imagineable i like him there or i don't like him there again anymore from 35% from three to fucking 50 so i tried not to overreact but if you believe he's taking that step and
Starting point is 00:18:16 the playoffs was like a sign of that and you want to project that part of it i'm totally cool with that because while our list is what they did last year there's going to be some element of projection right you're going to have to do some part of you know doing that so i'm totally okay with that if you want to put him a little bit higher for that reason. Thanks. Nemhard. I'm here for you. Yeah, you're the biggest time. This man better be an all-star of the way you're talking about him. He better go nothing next year. It's always funny because last year this was you with Matherin. Every year you pick a random Pacers guard that you're like, my guy. Was it? Yeah, actually, I was kind of high on Mathron. I think he, I loved him. Disgustingly high on our last year. You did. This for sure. I don't
Starting point is 00:18:55 know why. And you know what? I'm willing to bet you did the same thing with NM-hard this year. We'll find No, no, Nemhard is a different case, though, because he's actually, like, a useful player. Sorry, damn, that sounded crazy as hell. But Bennett and Madsman's useful just, like, another likes of life. But Nemhart, on the basketball court, I see shade to Drew Hall. I'm not out on Matthews yet. I'm not out on Matthews entirely. I'm pretty good for he got hurt.
Starting point is 00:19:15 He was good, but I don't, I don't know how he looks with Tiakaman, Tyrese. This is a Paco's podcast now. Thanks. Let's go. Next, next tier. Let's go to move to the 21 through 25. first up we got me okay at 21 i have clay thompson at 22 grace and allen 23 casein wallace wallace 24 iota sumu and 25 duncan robinson i like duncan robinson more than y'all do i think
Starting point is 00:19:46 he's pretty good now that he can put the ball on the ground he has good percentage of attacking the rim obviously a two-point shot is back he's not a great defender but he's six-seven and he's not absolutely terrible off ball which is like to be a confident off ball defender is like to go from being terrible to like you know fine defensively that's always the biggest difference I view him as close to neutral defensively I like where he brings to an offense a lot I think Duncan Robinson the same way that I was like yeah Duncan Robinson can be 30 because like we need bodies I feel like the Miami heat feel the same way where like Duncan gets every time that you see Duncan Robinson playing major minutes it's because the Miami Heat
Starting point is 00:20:29 have lost 11 million people in the rotation and they're like like who's left Duncan like can you can you step up again and he's like yeah I'll try but like when people but like when people are there like he try you know what I'm like he average like yeah it's like 12 minutes in the in the playoffs this year like they and they were also still hurt and they still were looking at Duncan Robinson like no we cannot go down that that road I think that he, I think that Duncan Robinson has shown flashes and I do want to give him credit for improving because if he didn't do all the things that you said, he definitely would not be like an option to be a rotation player, but I, I don't know, I think Duncan Robinson's, I don't
Starting point is 00:21:12 know, value is very much tied to the fact that he plays for the Miami Heat and people get sick and hurt all the time over there somehow. And so he just steps in and he, you know, works and grinds and does all the heat culture stuff but I'm not I don't know not go I what's even more interesting to me about this list is Kaysen wals and number 23 you know shout out Kason I think he's so underrated I think he is incredibly underrated in the talk of the rookies this year he's a legit great defender right away like not all defense levels a rookie but for a point of attack small guard defender he's really good like a 42% three point shooter he is knocked down he is good attack in the rim. Every percentage you look at
Starting point is 00:21:52 his shooting splits is extremely good. And that's because he has a low usage. He's not asked to do a whole lot. He does essentially nothing with the ball in his hands. But I look at a team like the OKC Thunder who has all the guys in the world you want with the ball in their hands, right? Shea's getting his touches. J-dub's getting his touches. Chet's getting his touches. Doesn't they had giddy, yuck, whatever. But they had plenty of people to dribble. They needed bodies around that that can be true 3 and D. And as a rookie, I think
Starting point is 00:22:17 Ksen Walls was that. And not even just in a way that's like effective for a I think he's legitimately really good and could help like every single playoff team he fits everywhere how you feel about case and walls is exactly how I feel about NEM hard 3 and D all those type of vibes is just showing favoritism towards your guys and I literally I would I would feel the same way of an MR2 if he shot 42% from 3 and 73% at the rim for the entire year I would also feel that way but Wallace did that for 82 games take it out okay okay stop no case Case and Wallace is good.
Starting point is 00:22:51 Like, I'm, I'm with you. For sure. Yeah, I'm with you, Isaac. Because I think I had Casein Wallace around this range as well. And, uh, wow. And it's just, I mean, it's just because, you know, I don't know, you look at you, like, he didn't have a great playoffs, but you look at at a lot of those moments, especially in like the second round series against Dallas.
Starting point is 00:23:13 And he was hitting big shots, right? Now, his percentages throughout the series were not. great. Nobody outside of Shay really had a great series. That's, that's whatever. But you can see that Kaysen Wallace is a guy that the Thunder can trust being in their closing five. And over and over again, whether it's because of defense, whether it's because you think that he can take another leap with his playmaking next year, going forward, I trust that Kays and Wallace is 100% going to be like one of what, the six closing guys that the, like he's at least going to be an option that they go too and be like hey for for two weeks let's let's close with case and wallace because he can do
Starting point is 00:23:51 all the things that you know elite role role player two way two guards can do so i yeah i don't i have no problem with kison wallace being this high and as we talk about the fact that they're going to have of you know a defensive i don't know what you call a trio of caruso dort shea j dub it's called those four elite defenders from perimeter casein wallis is part of that he is also in that tier of like what gives them just they're going to have a ridiculous ability to have at least two elite primitive defenders on the court at all times next year and i promise you case of wall's isn't the worst on defense of the names i listed i just don't know how kentucky consistently does it bro i also don't know how they was paying guys any gm can need a need some important impactful
Starting point is 00:24:37 guard play and just see a kentucky guy and just be like eh we all right we cool like that's just madness to me i like this list overall Damn, Clay's at 21. Hold on. Fuck. That just slipped my mind. It makes sense. We'll talk about Claymore. We'll see where you guys have them because there's a lot of clay discourse to be had. I put him next to Grayson Allen because I think he is a slightly better version of Grayson Allen these days.
Starting point is 00:25:00 Wow. Okay. Who's next? To be fair, Grayson Allen was really good this year. Yeah. That is not disrespect to Grayson Allen. No, Grayson Allen is nice. He had one of the greatest three-point shooting seasons ever this past year.
Starting point is 00:25:12 He really did. Yeah. Who's five is next? okay oh mine nice okay so at 25 I have pods
Starting point is 00:25:22 24 I have Gary Trent Jr 23 I got Grayson Allen 22 Carus Avert and 20 Ontario Rosier Carras Lavert mentioned
Starting point is 00:25:34 I guess there's a polar bear in Arlington Texas Wow I guess that's what cares Why is he all Why
Starting point is 00:25:43 Why is Kers Lavert We're here. What does Kerrador do? Why is he around? Exactly. What does he do? I know that he's taking leave. I know that he has improved.
Starting point is 00:25:53 But he was good defensively this year. But again, why is he here? He was good defensively. I didn't say jack shit about offense. Now listen, I think that over there in Cleveland, his time has probably waned away. They've consistently been looking for a certain wing options. and then carousiver with all the things that he's great at there's a reason why like he's not
Starting point is 00:26:19 starting and i think he generally is useful in many facets of the court obviously the shooting can be inconsistent especially in the playoffs he's one of the more inconsistent players he either giving you like a smooth 25 or he's giving you a smooth four points like there's no in between but playmaking is there yeah playmaking is there whenever he does look to attack and get those angles he can give you like usually throughout his entire career cool 12 13 points and whatnot and he's just one of those guys that just does a lot for you on that end of the court who doesn't ask for too much can i what's so a league average effective philgo percentage is about 55% 55 okay what do you think caris lavert had in 2023 2024 i mean you know if he's the 22nd best shooting guard you would think
Starting point is 00:27:07 you know he's kind of average i'll go what 50 50% for caris levert average guy 48% the same percentage he's had for five the last six years yeah he is not efficient at all from any point on the court 58% at the rim 26 percentile 38% from midrange 40th percentile 32% from three obviously bad he takes shots and he missed a shot that's kind of your entire description of caris lavert it honestly took me back because it sounded like it sounded like me two years ago when I was trying to justify our job J. Barrett being like a solid player. You know what I'm saying?
Starting point is 00:27:45 Like everything. No, Carissaverna's song. No, but you, but you were like you. Your team is not worse. No, but you were saying, but you were like, you know, sometimes he might give you like a smooth full points, but you know, he can do, he can do some things who scored 13 or 15 points. That's exactly what I was saying about R.J. Barrett two years ago. And you wouldn't, you would not have looked at R.J. Barrett in that same light.
Starting point is 00:28:06 I, listen, everybody's going to have their guy. Everybody is going to have, you know. Well, whoa, well, I'll be damned you've called Caras of her. my guy on McDonald's podcast. Don't ever say it in a million, two million years. No, no. No, he's not. I think he's a good player. I used to love him
Starting point is 00:28:22 back when he was on the Indiana Pierce's that he was hooping. He was giving him. Donovan. Hey. What do they say about the olders? Listen, they're the old days. They are. They are. They are. And the old days.
Starting point is 00:28:36 We're talking about Brooklyn. That's care of some work. Oh, my goodness. cares or maybe now looking back at a fowls to put him lower maybe I would have him around 24 25 because all those guys can't hit open shots pods more
Starting point is 00:28:51 a little bit more consistently or whatever but the other side thing you're with the high school is brain no Lavert is useful right yeah he's about a bucket cares Lever can get a bucket
Starting point is 00:29:06 Yeah I also think of the time. I also think Terry Rozier's too low, but we'll get to him. I have him a decent amount higher. Yeah. Yeah, I wanted to put him higher, but obviously he didn't end the season pretty well with the Miami, whether it would be like injuries. It was still getting into like the funk of things.
Starting point is 00:29:24 So that's like, I think more so was just like memory and what I last remember him doing. Back when he was in Charlotte, hooping, completely different player for obvious reasons, different environment and whatnot. And over here, injury riddled wasn't the most efficient and just. didn't live up to the expectation at that moment. Yeah, I know what you mean. I definitely thought about that too, but that's one of those things I tried to like not let myself overreact to. I'm like,
Starting point is 00:29:47 I've had an idea of Terry Rozier for like four years. I don't think he's worse now because he had a nightmare of 20 games with the heat when he went to a new team midseason. So I try to divorce myself from that, but I understand that that did happen. Yeah. We'll see what he does this next season. Okay. What's Donaldson? Five.
Starting point is 00:30:03 Who do I have? I have Cason Wallace at 25. Pots at 24. Grayson Allen at 23 Dante at 22 and Clay Thompson at 21 Clay Thompson at 21. Clay Thompson
Starting point is 00:30:16 the same spot is me and tough man So Mo has Clay top 20 still Which I had Clay like 18 or so After tinkering I moved him down He's kind of hard to rank When you think about how he played in Golden State versus how he's gonna probably play in Dallas You kind of have to project with him
Starting point is 00:30:31 And I think I went towards a low end of that Same I just I think that like And Isaac you talked a lot over the last like couple weeks since clay since like the news about clay has broken and you're like it's going to be different because he's like he's playing in the system that he hasn't played in for the last 13 years and so obviously it's going to look it might look a little bit worse and going to say because he's trying to force himself to be like the clay Thompson of old yep but at the same time he's coming off of two major you know major lower leg injuries I think going to to a new team where your role
Starting point is 00:31:04 is going to be more defined and guess what it's not going to be a bigger role like you're not this is not a promotion for clay thompson right he's not moving up the the company ladder luka and kairie are one and two and you have a very very specific job and i think that the situation also in dallas where if you have lineups with those three somebody is going to get attacked and clay thompson you know being the guy that he is he's going to try and be the defensive guy he's going to try and still guard some of some of the elite guys guys, I don't know if an agent Clay Thompson is going to be able to do that successfully time, time and time again. I think that going into next year, 21 is probably, it's probably,
Starting point is 00:31:48 you know, safe. And for the same reason as you, like, Grayson Allen, I know that I had Allen two spots lower than Clay. I kind of wanted to put Grayson Allen over Clay Thompson, just because of, like, he had, he had, he had a really good year. The one thing that kept Clay Thompson above is just the fact that it's still Clay Thompson and he still has like a gravity that a lot of shooters don't have. And so at the bare minimum, you still have to respect the name on the back of the jersey and that'll open up a lot of opportunities. You know what I find fucking crazy? We just had all this by Clay Thompson and you put Dante Divencenzel below him? Yeah. That is so. That's the most shocking. Do I live on a different
Starting point is 00:32:30 planet? I feel like Dante Divencenzzo was like pretty fucking easily better than Clay Thompson before. He had he had a yeah what are your gripes he had a listen dante had had a very very good year i think with a lot of the nix and it's it's interesting because i did put put dante low but i do think that a lot of the stuff that we will see is especially towards the end of the year like a lot of the nicks were playing out of need and so like dante is going to go from you know this guy that had an awesome season. He's going to beat the seventh man off the bench, right? We're not going to be, we're not going to be able to see Dante play in this role. So whether it's his fault or not going into next year, I don't know if I'm going to get this, you know, this version of Dante who is like
Starting point is 00:33:19 the sniper and can score a lot and can do all this. So like, I don't, I'm not, I'm not sure about that. I don't know if it's fair for you to go ahead and penalize Dante for the depth of his team when he was like straight up balling his ass. I know. You don't know if it's fair. You don't know if it's fair. I know for a fact it's not. That's not fair at all to him. I know. Yeah. I'm more and honestly. And honestly, if we're being... Don't see, this is your means right here. If we're being real... 22? If we're being real, and I will take this into consideration for further rankings, I've tried my best to not be super homer when it comes to the ranking. So I feel like I've been a little bit harder on the Knicks. So, okay, listen, when you guys see Josh, Josh Hart,
Starting point is 00:34:01 top 10 small forward do not be upset right you you've opened the door I'm good for it now wow okay okay I love I so my list is more based off of last year than it is next year so I don't I don't consider that at all if it comes to it and he gets lower down because of that reason and we just don't see it maybe his shot making loses his rhythm necessary he performs worse as a seventh man then I'm moving down next year but for now I'd rather give the guys flowers in the moment that's fair absolutely i agree the dude who quite literally took one of the biggest shooting lumps uh throughout the entire NBA season saw like 40% on 8 3s a game still attacking the room like a demon who's whoopin while also doing this thing on defense as well
Starting point is 00:34:48 i was just trying to be fair i was trying to be fair i'm sorry nasty nasty i overcorrected i over corrected my bad i get it i'd be like that i might i might have put awesome Reeves of Lois because I'm like, don't be the guy. Don't be the Lakers man. This is awesome. He was a star. Don't be the Lakers man. This is awesome.
Starting point is 00:35:05 The reason is the star. Okay. Let's go to the next year. Let's go to the top 20. From 16 to 20, who we got first? We got Mo first. Who you got? All right.
Starting point is 00:35:16 So at 20, Andrew and M. Hard, we already said it. That's my guy. Apparently now. Devin Voselle at 19. KCP at 18. I got at 17. Clay Thompson.
Starting point is 00:35:27 I believe in you next year, man. I think he's going to have his redemption season. For Clayton, specifically in this list, I am projecting like a mug, and I think he's going to have a killer year. While also, we can't sit here in that way. He didn't shoot like 9 3s a game and didn't hit like 40% of him. So like 39%. Mojo 99.
Starting point is 00:35:45 Mojo 99. It's my birthday, so talk to me nice. Come on. No, I want your look in the eyes and tell me that Claytonton is better than death of a cell. I ain't looking you nowhere. Shut up. Look at you. in the eyes and tell you that Clay Thompson is better than
Starting point is 00:36:01 Devin Vassel. I had Devin Vassel. Clayton, I love Devin Vassel. You clearly don't. You clearly don't. You clearly don't. You clearly don't. I do. No, you don't. I wanted the Hawks to draft them back in the day back in 2020 for sure. All right. Listen, first of all, I, listen, I respect how much basketball you consume on a daily basis. However, if I would, if I would just see this five, I would think that you didn't
Starting point is 00:36:26 know ball, right? The fact that Austin Reeves is this. Low is crazy, right? The fact that KCP is this low, crazy. The fact that... I don't feel that crazy about Austin Reeves. Really? No, I think Austin Reeves is much of... You just had Dante DeVincenzo at number 22.
Starting point is 00:36:41 I think... Dante is better than Rees. No, no, no, no, no. What are you talking about right now? Austin Reeves at 16. Austin Reeves is a really... You should wrap on him. Austin Reeves is a really, really good two guard.
Starting point is 00:36:53 And I think that him... I agree. I think that him being at 16... If we're going 30, then technically, you saying that Austin Reeves is right there like below the halfway line in terms of two guards the weakest position in the league that's wrong that's wrong
Starting point is 00:37:09 no yeah he is too low I have him and Vassel both pretty much a lot higher than this um KCP's hard to rank I put him around here too when I think of KCP and like his perception around the league and how I feel about him I thought he'd be really high and then I'm comparing him like oh wait yeah he's cool he's good
Starting point is 00:37:28 he's also playing with Yokic he's also not asked to do a lot I was like I can't I can't put Casey Bove of Devin Vassel like it was so hard and I really compare what these guys have to do their roles and how they produce so I'm not mad at Casey P at 18 though I think some people will be I think you're right
Starting point is 00:37:42 yeah that's the Devin Vassel criticism is very fair I can I think it's my own expectations of him and how high on I was at him when he came out of FSU and him being known as defensive men as and that shit just withering away and him developing this newfound
Starting point is 00:38:01 three-point shot and shit like that, but at times being a little bit too trigger-happy. I think it's just more so my perception of him. Now, do I think he's generally better than a cop? KCP?
Starting point is 00:38:11 Yes, but in terms of just like what KCP, Clay and Austin Reeves does, they're just so definitive and like they are, you know what they are, you know what they doing. With Devon Vassella, I know what he is and I know what he can do,
Starting point is 00:38:23 but I don't know how consistent he's, he will be for the San Antonio Spurs in the future. Okay. I'll say my Devin thoughts until we get to a couple tears up when I talk about him,
Starting point is 00:38:33 but I think he's extremely good. And I'm with you that a lot of us, me included, were like expecting a most improved player type of league from him this year that
Starting point is 00:38:41 didn't quite come. So I was disappointed for a lot of the year. But then when the year ended, I really looked at what he did and thought about back to what it was
Starting point is 00:38:47 like watching him in the regular season. He made improvements, you know? It just wasn't a huge league that we hoped for, but he's really good now. I remember when the San Antonio
Starting point is 00:38:56 Spurs dropped that bad. on his head everyone's like oh my god they just don't know money to anybody nowadays yeah yeah that was done for sure he's really good he's worth it yeah exactly people aren't real dev of a cell watchers now pre-wembe i understand why you're not a dev of the cell watcher but his talk creation and all that and seeing how we took a leap especially in like mid range area and stuff like that great i just have higher expectations for him this dude is from swanee georgia bro the ties are deep the ties are deep bro okay he was like 20 20
Starting point is 00:39:27 minutes away from my house back in georgia all right it's deep i have high expectations yeah since wemby's come the spurs have become like my de facto second favorite team i watched them like by far the second most after the lakers so i feel like i've seen an egregious amount of a cell in the last 12 months that's funny i've been seen this man since high school who's next donovan all right we got i have bogged on at 20 norm power at 19 Andrew Nemhart at 18 Bradley Beal at 17 and KCP at 16 Bradley Beal at 17
Starting point is 00:40:01 You hate this man, Jesus Christ 17 I understand That is the... Listen, listen, I understand Go ahead, go ahead, go ahead This is the biggest overreaction I've ever seen To a down year on a team that makes sense For 17 is nuts First of all, listen
Starting point is 00:40:15 I've, to be honest I've felt this way about Bradley Beal for a while now Right, I just listen, I just didn't want to go out on, on the limb, and I wasn't trying to, you know, shake, shake any, shake any, or ruffle any feathers, all that stuff. Bradley Beale, I, there's a couple things. First off, one, he's been miscast for like the last seven years. And that's not, that's not his, that's not his fault, right? But Bradley Beale.
Starting point is 00:40:45 Miscast for seven years is crazy. He has been. He has been. Bradley Beal hasn't been in, like, the right situation since John Wall was healthy. Like when Russell Westbrook comes along, that just, that team just happened. They were supposed to be this like NBA purgatory, weren't supposed to win. And then Russell Westbrook is like, no, like we're going to win games. And Bill was like, okay, like, I guess I can do that as well.
Starting point is 00:41:04 But then, then you get the two years after Westbrook, where it's just Bradley Beale is the number one option. And we know Bradley Beal was never, he's never going to be the one option on like a team that's actually going to go anywhere. And so you just get him scoring all these points. And that's fine. Go do your thing. Get your back. Do all that. That's fine.
Starting point is 00:41:22 Then he comes to Phoenix, you have this, you know, this trio of just isobucket scores, right? Or, yeah, obviously book is more than that, but whatever. But you haven't, Beale hasn't been in a situation where he's been able to maximize all of his talents. And he also just never plays. And you look at him in the, he never plays. You look at him in the playoffs. His playoff numbers are not great. Like over the last, what, four times that we've seen Bradley Bill in the playoffs,
Starting point is 00:41:50 he's finished shooting under 30% from three in like two of them it hasn't been hasn't been great stuff do you think that you can move bradley beale around the league at this point and and look at a guy who can actually impact winning and actually like help a team get to get to the next level i'm not sure like i'm i'm not a big bradley bill fan and i would take i'll take mid quote unquote mid role players over a guy that is slated to make 50 million that is supposed to be this bucket getter but also i i don't get him every single night last five years he average just 52 games played a season the incan that definitely the inconsistency is just it's it's crazy so no i'm not i'm not a i'm not a big bradley bill fan okay listen we do know our difference in
Starting point is 00:42:40 perception of injury stuff you know i don't think people as much of that so i get that that's her biggest reason I understand that's a five-year sample size on the court reason no I get it it's tough 53 games again this year that's tough I just I don't consider that as much but I understand if you do if that's going to be a thing you account for fair I think the on the court stuff is a little bit less reasonable she at this point of his career he's a very similar player to demar de rosen where we know he does not fit on a lot of teams and bradley beale again the specific team he needs to fit on there's a specific type of team that he fits horribly on and that is the phoenix sons they are squarely in the peg
Starting point is 00:43:14 of those teams that he is not a good fit on. So I'm trying to contextualize that and know that Bradley Beale's not in a great place for him to thrive. I think he needs to be a second option next to a guard like a John Wall like you mentioned. That was a great having a playmate next to him
Starting point is 00:43:27 is very important. Russell Westbrook's same thing. And he needs to be a good player as they're like a big man that can be a playmaking help or something. Like actually, if he went to the Kings like DeMarter Rosen just did, I think he was very good there.
Starting point is 00:43:38 I think that's like a perfect spot where he can just focus on being a bucky at her. But listen, he wasn't healthy. understand that. He played decently well for the sons this year, despite the lack of usage. It was the lowest usage of his career since he was like 21 years old, but
Starting point is 00:43:52 it was the most efficient year of his career by far. He shot over 40% from 3. He shot 70% at the rim, 45% from midrange. There was a point in the second half of the year when everybody got healthy for them, where he was looking aggressive and was getting downhill and the team started to make more sense. Then, of course, where injuries came, that didn't last too long, to your
Starting point is 00:44:08 point. But I think Bradley Bill is still a good player, just very contextualized and needs to have a good fit. Yeah, that's fine. He's good. He's not, he's not, he's not great by, by any means. Like, I don't, sure, sure. Yeah, I'm not saying she's not five, but I think 17 is nuts. Yeah, I got two things to say.
Starting point is 00:44:27 First and foremost, what's even crazier is he's been so inconsistent with this play that I even forget that he existed. He didn't even make my list. Sham on me for that. You see what I'm saying? Another thing that I will say. You, Donovan, your point, you hit it on the money with that. He's been so inconsistent and it's just like, I don't know what to expect from this guy.
Starting point is 00:44:43 but I will say also I don't want to penalize him for consistently being on like piss poor teams that are ran by piss poor people who don't know how to think about basketball in correct ways so like it I see the reason why it's so hard to see Don or Bradley Beale in a winning environment is because he has people who just don't know how to build that over there and over there in Washington they never surrounded him with anything consistent other than when John Wall was there As soon as they lost a mastermind, they're like, what the fuck do we do now, you know? You have the dumb ass Washington Wizard's front office. And then you have fucking fantasy basketball managers like Matt Isbio. They're like, let's add Bradley Biel to my team. Why not? And it makes no sense. And to disservice to him to put him next to Bradley Biel and Kevin Durant.
Starting point is 00:45:30 It makes no sense. When the deal happened, all of us, including you, we're like, he does the same thing as them. Why would they want him? You know, so we know that. So I'm not going to penalize him for not looking quite as good or not being impactful because he's literally put in a position to be. be unimpactful by people that are not smart or making those type of decision.
Starting point is 00:45:46 Even if Bradley Beale was in a different situation outside of Phoenix, he's a 31-year-old two guard who doesn't really play defense. He doesn't play at all, really, because he's always hurt. And his scoring is also like inconsistent. You can have very, very good. Like I think when Bradley Beal is on, he is a bucket and he can go yell at any AAU kid around the country and be like, you have to guard me. right he can do he can do that when he's at his best the problem is we rarely see his best i think
Starting point is 00:46:19 that bradley be at this point in his career is in that is in that mode where he's going to have to be a second option a 2.5 even right like i i don't i don't know bradley bill can be the second best player on a team that has championship aspirations and so for sure and so that that's that's why i'm like the talent if we're doing king of the court bradley bill yo you're top 10 you're up there But I think that there's a lot of other guys Where you might be able to fit them into more situations And it doesn't come with as much expectation As a Bradley Beale
Starting point is 00:46:54 Yeah That's fair I think he's exact type of guy that shows the flaw In the whole like I don't know if he can be a one option two option three option I kind of grown tired of that line of Thinking with star players stuff Because you're right I guess if we're doing that If we're looking at it from that perspective
Starting point is 00:47:12 he can't be the one and two best player he has to be a third best player but I think he also has to be like the third best player but the second scoring option or first scoring option so like let's use the king the kings for example
Starting point is 00:47:21 Sub bonus and Fox are better than him but B would be the primary score there or secondary to Fox in the perimeter aspect but you know Sub bonus is better than him but doesn't focus on that type of stuff that's how you had to view people like him is that whatever the pecking order is
Starting point is 00:47:36 that's less relevant to the style of play and how the touches would be distributed from where on the court and that's more important to me for him Yeah. And again, that's, that's for, that's for two. If you were doing like an overall rankings of the league, I'm just saying like, Bradley Beal is not going to be one of those guys that is in the top 12. Bradley Beal is not like, it's been a while since. You're going to hate me. The PR around him is nasty. I can understand it's been a while since Bradley Beal has been, right, it's been a couple years since he's been, you know, all NBA, all this stuff. So I just, yeah, I'm, I'm off the Bradley Bill trend. So it is, it is, it is a little bit. bit more hate from me. I understand that I am on the lower side of Bradley Bill, and he can be, he can be higher for a lot of other people, and I won't be, like, upset. But when I, when I see
Starting point is 00:48:21 him and when I watch him play, this is where I kind of put him. Let me say, you're going to be upset where I put him, and I want to make the good thing for that, because I have him substantially higher. You have him in the top ten. I, I view him as like a, I can fix him. I have a guy where I'm like, you put me in charge of the team. I can make some shake of Bradley Bill. I can put him in If I can make some decisions, that's how I view him is like, listen, you're, you're, you're in the wrong spot. Your main guy right now doesn't take care of you. He doesn't know what you need. He doesn't know what your love language. We can really got him to the right direction and get some value out of him. Trying to wrist up Bradley Beeler. What did this turn into? He said, you don't know
Starting point is 00:48:54 your love language like I do. I think you beautiful to know you like I do. Okay, let's show my five. All right. At 16, I have Dante DiVincenzo. Wow. Wow. I spelled wrong. I spelled wrong on here twice. That's funny. I forgot the end. 17 Terry Rozier, 18 Jalen Green, 19 Malik Monk, 20, Norm Powell. This was the hardest range for me because Jalen Green is so fucking garbage for eight months of the year. And then that one month, he was so fucking amazing that like he was legitimately one of the five best players alive for like 30 days. And I do believe that he's going to continue that and be a lot better next year. But he was awful for the first
Starting point is 00:49:36 six months of the year. Yeah. And again, I'm all about trying to get myself to respect sample size and not overreact to certain runs, however long they may be. And he's the definition of please respect the sample size. Don't overreact too much until we see him make that leap. I believe that leap could happen, but I got to see it for at least two months in a row before I really let it reflect in my rankings. That's good. I think that's pretty. Yeah, that's fair. I have Jalen Green a little bit higher because I was trying to stop myself and being a massive hater because I've been saying the exact same, I've been saying the exact same thing as you, where I'm like, I don't, I don't believe that Jalen Green is going to do it.
Starting point is 00:50:11 Like, I actively don't think it's going to happen. However, he did show us a little bit of something. So let me just give him some type of credit for these, you know, next two months before the season starts. And you, I promise you guys, you will hear my hate when the predictions episode comes out because I am jumping off the Jalen Green bandwagon, but the Malik Monk pick at 19. I feel like Malik Monk should be a little bit higher Yeah he was tough I uh
Starting point is 00:50:37 I felt the way too because his PR so good Because he was most improved And I think when somebody's most improved We you know Look at him versus Terry Rozier Terry Rozier has been just as good of him for years But Monk just made that improvement So in our mind he's on the up and up
Starting point is 00:50:52 But I think he improved to that level That Razier's already been at He's been a decently efficient 20 point per game Five assist guy for like five years now And someone like Monk just made that leap and we're like, whoa, he's going so high. We've got to respect them. But when you really look at it,
Starting point is 00:51:07 he's less efficient than Rozier. Passing, we can pick hairs there. I think there's similar level of passers. Neither one of them are making your life any better defensively. That was really the way I had to look at there was, I also had him at like 12 or something. Then I had to compare a person my person. And I was like, I really don't have an argument for Monk being better than
Starting point is 00:51:25 Ruggier other than recency bias. I'll tell you right now. You said it's PR. Recency bias. It got me. recently he's got me he's high on my list and he just got paid
Starting point is 00:51:36 I understand that reason he buys is going to kick your ass him league monk and he's very good like I think 19 is a big leap from where we had him last year
Starting point is 00:51:42 which was probably not on the goddamn list and he's really good now he's legitimately was incredibly important as a playmaker there he shot well 15 points per game
Starting point is 00:51:51 not the most efficient at the rim not the most efficient from mid range if I remember correctly I pulled up now just you know I think he's a very similar
Starting point is 00:51:58 player to Rozier but slightly worse in a lot of here he is thanks uh biggest difference between the two is one is in charlotte one used to be in charlotte he played for the god damn lakers and also one of the he played for the kings who had one of the best storylines over the last two years and he was one of the forefront he was like the forefront of that pretty much yeah so he's a 56% true shooting percentage which is solid i was looking at he's a he's good for the frito lines wise higher his effective focal percentage is 52% which is
Starting point is 00:52:26 45th percentile which isn't great you know and i would want that to be a little bit higher from a guy in his roll off the walk. She's popping. He might start. I don't know. But a guy that's not, you know, the one option or anything. He should theoretically be able to eat off of those star players. And I'd like him to be a little bit more efficient. But again, I don't, I don't hate him or anything. I just think the guys from like 11 to 18 are pretty good. And when I compared them one by one, I was like, I don't know. Would you rather have Devinchenzo or Monk? I think I'd rather have Monk. Devincento for sure. Really? I, what? Listen. Listen. Devenger's a good defender. Monks fine at best. Listen. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:53:00 And plus the game the game's about a bucket Malik Munk is a bucket I Devincer gets buckets He does he does I listen how are you a Knicks fan right now? I'm telling you I told you I put I put Devinchenzo super low because I was trying to fight the the homer stuff
Starting point is 00:53:17 Again I'm not gonna lie There is gonna be a moment where if you guys decide to shame me I can't even be mad at it right I can't even be upset because recency bias and pay days have infiltrated my mind. All right, so
Starting point is 00:53:36 we'll just say that. Oh, my God, bro. Wow. And honestly, if you want to flip Monk and Rouge, you're okay with that, I think 17 through 19 is very flippable.
Starting point is 00:53:47 I get green the nod because I'm... It's a 10, it's a 10 player stretch where you're like, yeah, okay, I can see it. Yeah. Like, now I'm looking at it,
Starting point is 00:53:55 like, maybe, we can put Monke at like 17. I'm, maybe I agree with you. actually just because Rozier's getting a little older. Okay, we can give Monk that nod. I gave Jaylen Green one spot above him
Starting point is 00:54:06 at the last second because I was like, am I being a hater on Jaylen Green? Am I not respecting the end of season run enough? I felt like I had him like 21 or something. I was like, I can't be the guy to keep Jaylen Green this lower for what he just did. So I moved him up arbitrarily.
Starting point is 00:54:20 But over the course of the year, Malik Monk was better last year. Yeah. When it comes to Daly Green, like whenever, specifically when it comes to ranking him, he only has the advantage of being young and people still like believing him that's quite literally on the court if we're talking about him just for like what he did then i'm pretty sure he
Starting point is 00:54:41 would be lower than ever lower on everybody's listening who for sure be lower on my list if we're talking about that yeah but you know i have to look at what he did towards the end of the season when st gung was out and that matters for now yeah no y'all yeah i felt we're not going to change a graphic because I already made it beforehand, but for people at home listening, I'm going to put Monk up to 17 and slide Rozier to 18 and Jalen Green to 19. I think I'll do that because Rezier had the terrible stretch with the Hornets and he's, I mean, not the hornets, with the heat, and he's still on the heat. So I don't know if he's going to play better there next year. So I'll give Monkhanod there. Okay. But he's not going to go up Dante. Dante is a line in the sand for me.
Starting point is 00:55:19 That's fine. Bro, I can't believe I'm going to, where I have Dante is crazy, bro. It's crazy. Okay. Let's go to the next year. Let's see the top. 15. It's me. Donovan. Okay. 11 to 15. So I have Rosier at 15.
Starting point is 00:55:34 I have Jalen Green at 14. Devin Viselle at 13. Tyler Hira at 12. Anthony Simons at 11. Okay. So look. Okay. So Rozier.
Starting point is 00:55:45 Ooh. Got Austin Reeves stopped then. So Reeves. Oh yeah. Yeah. That is true. Wow. Bro.
Starting point is 00:55:51 You're nasty for that. Oh, my God. So. So. Save it. Save it until we get there. Save it. So Rosier.
Starting point is 00:55:57 Razir is really good and I think like when he got traded to Miami we were all like oh the heat are super scary now this is a perfect pickup this is exactly what they needed and sometimes it takes more than 20 games to adjust and especially when you are going into a situation where your star player doesn't take the regular season seriously and he's in and out the lineup the whole time and whenever you have a whole bunch of other other pieces that are always moving around and you're trying to, you know, elevate, uh, Jaime Hakez. You're trying to, you're trying to elevate Yovitz. Like, there's a, there was a lot of moving pieces to Miami last year. And I think that them with a full training camp and Roseir not getting traded in the middle of the season,
Starting point is 00:56:39 he's going to play much, much better. And I'm banking on that. So I do think that Terry Rozier would be better. Jalen Green, again, didn't want to be a hater. He, he can be bumped up. You can drop Jalen down to 19. I would not care. Devin Vassel. Devin Vassell? Awesome. I love, I love Vassel. The only reason why I have Simons and Hero above him is because for Hero, I think Hero is a little bit underrated. And I think that, I think that Hero and his, Heroes Offball Movement is very, very, like, cool to put on a lot of teams. I think that he will work on a lot of teams. And the scoring ceiling for Simons as a two guard, listen, it's, it's up there. If Simons gets going and he's not in this stall of backcourt players and guards where they're still trying to figure out who's the guy and he's low-key, like not on the Blazers timeline, but he isn't there and they don't really know what to do with him. You put him in a situation where he can be Malik Monk Plus, you will see the full, full
Starting point is 00:57:45 capabilities of Simons. So I have him kind of high. I agree. I think Malik Monk Plus is doing him to service. I think he can be a legitimate starting guard. Like we always say put him on their land of magic Simons is taking off He's the guy that star this season super strong
Starting point is 00:57:59 And kind of fell off throughout the second half of the season But I also ranked them highly like you did Because I'm not dingin anybody For doing poorly on the Trailblazers That team was a disaster It's not talked about enough because nobody watched them They were one of the most poorly coached Just shit show teams ever last year
Starting point is 00:58:13 And he was chucking Like nobody would believe If you had to actually watch those games He was forcing Because that team That offense was nothing in the half court It was pathetic Yeah, the only reason why they were slightly relevant was because of their defense. I guess
Starting point is 00:58:28 Chauncey Billows did one singular good thing, but I agree with two on Anthony Simons. I think he's a type of player who can easily just find his way into one singular all-star game into his career if he's obviously in the right situation. Yeah. Yeah, I like giving Richard a little higher than I put him. The biggest problem when he got to Miami is he couldn't get to the rim at all, really. He was very uncomfortable because in Charlotte, especially with Lamello ball out, just high and roll over and over again. That was his game. It was very traditional.
Starting point is 00:58:56 Miami isn't a let our two guards spam pick and roll type of team. You know, that's not what they brought Rozierian to do. They played through Jimmy. They played through Bam. They run a lot of off-screen things with all their shooters like Tyler Hero,
Starting point is 00:59:07 Duncan Robinson and all that. And Rozier was asked to fit into that system, which was dramatically different from what he did with that simple-ass Charlotte offense before. He went from getting to the rim 27% of his shots to just 20%. So that's a sign of you're not getting to the rim.
Starting point is 00:59:21 You can't get the easy stuff. You can't get your run. rhythm going. It makes your jump shot fall less because you're not seeing the ball go in the bucket a lot. Just a cycle of not being comfortable and being out of your rhythm. I can see that getting better next year or it cannot. I don't know. That's like a, you know, will he fit in the system? Will he not necessarily something that just comes with time? He has to make those improvements and fit. So I'm not mad as you putting him higher, but I wasn't willing to give him too much of a benefit of the doubt. Yeah. Ending up, like going from the Charlotte
Starting point is 00:59:47 Hornets culture in their locker and we know how like, we know the stigma there to like, Going from the least serious organization to the most serious organization in the NBA does a lot. And I know, yeah, it's quite literally a culture shock, bro. Like, you have to quite literally do your job from head to toe. And Pat Ryan, he snatching chains off. It's like, get that schicey off your head. Yeah, exactly. Just to.
Starting point is 01:00:15 It's a huge difference. It's such a huge difference. That's why I had a 14. I mean, listen, I get, I get one respect, Jalen green and projecting. it's a bit much projecting for me for a guy who was largely ineffective over the 82 game sample size I can't go to half
Starting point is 01:00:29 it's a lot listen I'm I'm with you we can again the graphic is made but if if I if we were changing on the spot we can drop him out of out of the top 15 because I why did I do this I really don't believe this like I really I really
Starting point is 01:00:46 I really have been talking down on Jalen Green for the last like year and a half I don't know why I put him top 14 that's crazy My bad guys It's funny because I believe in him I believe in him But I'm cautious I'm cautiously optimistic
Starting point is 01:00:58 I don't even know what you are You're just like lying I know my bad guys I wasn't truthful I wasn't myself That's hilarious right Alright who's next step Okay
Starting point is 01:01:09 Next step was me I have Austin Reeves at 11 Anthony Simon's at 12 Tyler Hero at 13 Contavius Cole up 14 And Colin Sexton at 15 Nice It's time to get on the sex train
Starting point is 01:01:21 Colin Sexton is him Once he gets straight to another team That is serious He wrote him He wrote him He did All aboard All a fucking board
Starting point is 01:01:30 You're taking off to the moon He for sure had that We're riding the sex train How long? How long were you All night To the moon No
Starting point is 01:01:41 Your list is It's very solid You have a lot of guys on here That I have respect You talked about Your love for Colin Sexton earlier And I understand that
Starting point is 01:01:51 But so, yeah, I really don't have any problems with your 11th and 15. Okay, well, let's go straight to Moz then. Mo, who you got? Okay. So, coming in at number 15, I got Norma Pile, none of us has said a word about him throughout his entire podcast. Let's just keep it like that. 14.
Starting point is 01:02:10 I like no reply. Cool, dude. But let's just, we're good off that. 13, Tyler Hero, 12. I think this is the first C.J. McCollum. appearance. Even though we played point guard last year, I think we're all for sure going to remember him once he retired, especially in the student guard, for sure, miscast like crazy. In that 11, there is a Malik Munk appearance. I find this
Starting point is 01:02:33 hilarious. C.J. McCollum is so clearly in the top 10, but I remember after the playoffs, you were like, I fucking hate C.J. McCollum that he to trade him. I remember you reacting so viscerally to a couple bad games in that last playoff series. That it doesn't surprise me at all, because I know you're running with that emotion. He What he did was so damning. Now, I can't blame him, all right? And I sound very, like, contradictory to, like, oh, the situation can't blame or whatever. But when you're, like, supposed to be the seasoned veteran and you are given the keys to the offense and you can't do anything on the court that's, like, worth anything at all, struggling with your shot.
Starting point is 01:03:15 That's so dramatic. You can't defend. Can't do anything that's worth. anything it's like come on man he's not your nasping and doing your like come on man like cj's a great dude and i know there's so much more into him but the sour taste and it's just yeah i get it i get it i get it i don't really get it i mean listen he should he should be he should be higher but if you're talking about like the lasting image of what you saw from c j mccullum and especially because he's never been actually no that's a lot c j mcclum has had like very high highs in this league it's an it's another
Starting point is 01:03:57 it's another one of those situations where he's he's miscast and the one thing that we've always said about c j mccullum is that like if anything he should be he's one of those guys where he's like oh you know c j mccullum professional score and he's just not that right like he's just not that at this point and whenever the pelicans needed him to be mr professional bucket he's professional miss her. And so that's like kind of an issue. Why are we taking anything away from him playing the number one seed without Zion Williamson for four games? That team got fucking blasted from top to bottom. I'm not doing that. I'm not doing that. The OKC defense was absolute clamps and CJ couldn't get shit off because nobody else can get shit off. It was top down embarrassment. I don't
Starting point is 01:04:43 really learn anything about CJ McCollum from that series. All I learn is Chad Holmgren, Shea and door have fucking clamps on them and C.J. K is not equipped to get out of that by himself. He is top 10. I'm with you. I'm not, I'm not saying. I'm just saying I understand. I'm talking to Mo. I'm talking to Mo. No. When I watched that series, I know that this dude will not be. He, this dude is, doesn't have a shot or a real chance at being a top two option offensively at all,
Starting point is 01:05:12 no matter how the team is constructed. Because of because of the amount of struggle which he had getting his shot off the amount of turnovers that he had the single digits points that he was scoring against guys i understand i understand but you're supposed to be the vet you're in the second you say they're bet put you in that just means he's supposed to be old he's not supposed to be luca he's not supposed to be out here fucking between the legs making shit happen against an elite defense nobody's expected there's a there's a lot of cj a lot of cj love on on the way you are wild though 12 is is you're right you're right you You'd rather have, actually, no, I can't, actually know, I can't decide.
Starting point is 01:05:52 Yeah, Malik Monk's vibes are cool. I can't even say that. So, no, Malik, get the fuck out of my face. Malik Monk's vibes are way better. Yeah, that's fuck out of my face. Malik Monk's vibes are so much better. The vibes are very high. What's wrong with CJ's vibes?
Starting point is 01:06:06 His vibes are fine. Nah, uh-uh. Don't ever, don't discount Malikamuk on this podcast, please. I like Malik Monk on this podcast, please. I like Malik Muck. I've seen some of his movies. What the fuck is he doing above CJ McCollum? That's all I'm saying.
Starting point is 01:06:21 I made a couple things. He's putting that. He's putting that shit in the rim. That's what he's doing. I love that you also have sex and high. You had sex and higher than me. So as much as I loved them, you went even crazier. And honestly, I was going to put sex in like 13.
Starting point is 01:06:34 I moved him down a little bit last second because I was like, am I doing a lot? Apparently I wasn't. I should have stuck to it. Something, some real character development that I did, some real growth that I showed was showing to our hero's respect and seeing the value in him as a shooter. and seeing the growth that he made as just, like, being more versatile, or not even more versatile, my bad. Taking a step back offensive in terms of just, like, usage and shit, and we obviously saw how things changed structurally once Taylor's year was on the team. He was still doing his thing.
Starting point is 01:07:06 Of course, J.B. went down. He was, he assumed a lot of the offensive load. And although, like, yes, it wasn't very pretty, he still found ways to be as productive as possible. And I think he's easily one of the most, like, take it for granted players in the entire NBA. That's fair. Yeah, I kind of just felt like Tyler Hero is Tyler Hero. I feel like he's settled into who he's going to be. And I know that he's, like, precisely the 13th best shooting guard in the league.
Starting point is 01:07:29 Yeah. Yeah. Fair. But okay, this is a solid, solid tier. This is a, the least insane tier we've had so far besides the C.G. McCollum. But other than that, it's all pretty fair. What's next?
Starting point is 01:07:41 Top 10, Tom. Let's get it rolling. I'm up first, and Caruso is spelled. Rispy. Crusp At 10 I have Devin Vassel At 9
Starting point is 01:07:52 C.J McCollum At 8 Bradley Beal At 7 Alex Caruso And at 6 Zachary Levine So why do you have
Starting point is 01:08:02 Caruso higher than Cedumacom Because Caruso His first team all defense Legitimate Legitently impactful Like
Starting point is 01:08:11 A lot of defensive players That can carry a defense Are big men right, typically, you have to be to be able to cover the amount of ground, affect the game with the most of the important part of the floor, which is the rim, do all this stuff to really be able to impact guys. It's very hard for a perimeter defender to really carry a defense and have a lot of impact. Even guys that when DPO-wise, like Marcus Smart, are never going to have the on-off numbers or the defensive impact metrics of a big man like a Gobert or whatever.
Starting point is 01:08:37 The Chicago Bulls had a top 10 defense last year, and I think it is almost directly attributable to Alex Caruso. Alex Caruso is the, in my opinion, top two, maybe top three at worst, perimeter defenders in the NBA. You can think about the versatility of a guy from that size, the ability to defend point of attack, fight over screens, switch on the bigger guys,
Starting point is 01:08:55 defend on the wing, do literally everything you want defensively and then be a 40% corner three point shooter, be a good cutter, be able to run the break, do some secondary dribbling. It's like KCP, where we know he fits into a team
Starting point is 01:09:06 and gives you exactly what you need for a winning team, but if KCP was just like roared it out and just like five times better as a defender. Royed it out. That's hilarious. for like he's by far the most impactful role player on this list oh yeah i can uh i don't have any real qualms about that statement specifically over there um i like i like this because someone like caruso his game travels no matter what whether it would be like he can have
Starting point is 01:09:36 an off shooting night shoot one for seven from the field doesn't fucking matter because he's caught he's having like a superstar effect on defense and he's genuinely changed the outcome of the game no matter what in what situation he's in so I think that's yeah okay I'm with that they had Vucevich they started Vucevich de Rosen Levine well he was hurt but like all these guys Kobe White like was not necessarily strongest defender this is the guys that were starting and they had a top 10 defense there's one good defender in this lineup and it's Caruso and he had a top 10 defense that's first team that's first team you have to respect you have to respect Caruso
Starting point is 01:10:11 he's nuts yeah okay okay I'm with this I'm with this I'm with this I'm with this I'm Okay, so I had Devon Vassel quite a bit hard than you guys. Yeah, hey, shout out of Vesel. For sure. I had him at like 19 or something. Shout out of himself. I think he's a great player. Devin Vesel was awesome. He's really good. Devin Vesel was quietly one of the best mid-range shooters in the league this year. They don't know. Quietly improved defensively and was very solid. They don't know. It doesn't get to the room quite as much as you would like But very efficient at the room
Starting point is 01:10:34 Again, one of the best mid-range shooters in the league I think that'll come very apparent Once the Spurs are finally getting into playoffs And getting that setting where that really is no necessary He's nice, man, he's very well-balanced He doesn't have like the highs of a Zach Levine Or whoever else you might have above him But just he checks all the boxes
Starting point is 01:10:53 From what you want from a shooting guard, I think Yeah, that was one singular year That you play with De Mardi Rosen did wonders for his player for his player development um that mid-range game was i don't want to say was always there showed signs demar taught him everything he knew from the base up him making that his bread and butter on the court now is absolutely insanity to me and seeing that be a consistent reliable part of his game you know he's found one of the things where he's true truly that and i think that's what he needs to continue to build off of now he's shot 51% but i love
Starting point is 01:11:28 That's solid. 51% I like that. That's crazy. He's a bucket. He is a walking bucket. He is a walking bucket. Who's the next five?
Starting point is 01:11:38 Show us the next list. Mo. Cool. So at number 10, Alex Caruso. Number nine, Jalen Green, the only reason why he's there
Starting point is 01:11:48 is because of a straight age. All right. Age? Straight up age. Age and what he did over the last 20 whatever games of the season. And number nine is,
Starting point is 01:11:58 that's it. He has that type of grass. What are you fucking talking about? That's nasty work. Number eight, Dante Divencino. One of the best role players in the entire league. How he, how Alex, how, um, Isaac feels about Alex Crusoe. I can say the same exact things for someone like Dante Diventonzo.
Starting point is 01:12:16 Different skills, by the way. Simon's at seven and Levine at six. All right. What do you want to say about Jayley Green? He's not a top 10 shooting guard in the league. Like, that's kind of, there's, there's no situation. unless unless we were doing a slam dunk contest in the backyard, there's no situation that I would want Jalen Green on my team over Alex Caruso.
Starting point is 01:12:39 I like if we're if the goal is to win that's great. The goal is to win basketball games. I want Alice Caruso on my team more than more than Jalen Green. I think that's kind of wild. Simon's being at seven. It's a little high for me. If you're like, listen, we've seen this over the years that that's your guy. So like I guess
Starting point is 01:12:59 But I the real disrespectful is Caruso under Jalen Green That's that's why Jalen Green plays good 10% of the year Why did I put him at 14? Jalen Green plays good for 10% of the season There's no reason why he should be a top 10 shooting guard That is crazy Okay
Starting point is 01:13:20 This is obviously He's good if you value him like I value Caruso like you said Go for I love Devinchenzo So eight is rich for my blood, but I respect it. Simon's too high, but again, I like him. That's fine. I'm not going to go crazy. Green at nine is ludicrous.
Starting point is 01:13:34 Yeah, that's kind of wild. Obviously, this is where projecting kicks in and seeing what he did over the last 20, 25 games and whatnot. Help me see a pathway for him becoming, I don't want to say a star player, but closer to that than he was the previous year, which was absolutely. We're past projecting. We're past projecting. only way like we're at 2k simulations in terms of like no potential for
Starting point is 01:14:01 wow that's that's where we're out that's nasty work but you're that out on jailing green we're at the point where we're talking to god we're asking him to guide us to the path to find jailing green being top 10 because there's no confession is yours reality we're we're seeking divine intervention exactly wow okay that you know if you guys if you guys genuinely give loss all hope and you're selling every single pieces and bits of your jailing green stock cool I'll be the guy to go and pick up a few am I gonna put them in the you know trade market for sure absolutely because you can't bang you never know at the end of the day I just see a 22 23 year olds untapped potential starting
Starting point is 01:14:45 to blossom just a little bit whether it be with the Houston Rockets I don't know because they have no it that makes sense if we were ranking them based on like who we'd want on our team today in a draft when you account for like long-term upside I get that I'm just trying to rank a little bit more like who they are today but if that's the way you're viewing it then I get it for sure like I would if I was drafting I'd rather have him than McCollum long term so that makes sense but if I wanted to win a game today give me Cajum McCollum yeah all I all I see with Jalen Green is just a guy who jumps high and has nice hair so if you're putting that shit on two bare minimum as well so if you want a fashion
Starting point is 01:15:19 show as well he's your guy there we go all right let's see Donovan 60 10 see if he gets I have, I have Zach Levine at 10, C.J. McCullum at 9, Malik Monk at 8, Austin Reeves at 7, and Alice Caruso at 6. Oh my God. Y'all fucking love Malik Monk. Yo, Malik Monk is like that. Malik Monk is like that. And listen, my one, my one rebuttal, because I already know what you're going to say. But if they let Malik Monk actually play, he could do everything that, everything that everybody else is. And your rebuttal is, there's a reason why. he doesn't play you know 35 minutes a night it's fine they unleash unleash malik monk let him do everything else because i i genuinely think like that if you if if they give him just a little bit
Starting point is 01:16:07 more rain we've seen him already take this this level of improvement there's another level and that comes with just a little bit more more playing time i think there's more trust that mike brown can can instill in malik monk and we're going to see a really really good version of him so So, yeah, I have Malik Monk at 8, cruiser at 6. Okay. Listen, I don't want to be a guy that talks down on Malik Monk any more than I already have. So I'll let you have it. I don't think he does anything better than Zach Levine.
Starting point is 01:16:36 And I know Zach Levine has been hurt. I don't give a fuck about his contract when I'm ranking him here. When Zach Levin is healthy, I think he does everything better. So I'm going to put him higher. But if you want to hype Malik Monk, I like him too, I'll let you do it. For this summer. Yeah. Why is Zach Levine so low?
Starting point is 01:16:49 So low? Yeah. Injuries. He doesn't like injuries. Yeah. made that too yeah how but it's but it really is but like but even even with with levin like he like loki is like he's fine he's not like super super injury injury riddle it's like this last season was really bad obviously but he's he's anywhere like in that like 62 kind of plus
Starting point is 01:17:14 territory um but there's there's some inconsistencies with with levine i do think that like at his best He is a very, very good score. And again, play for the Bulls. And I feel like even before he got there, I feel like I was on the Zach Levine train. I felt like I knew that he would become a really, really talented two guard. So I kind of, I give him the pass because in my head, he's more of a known commodity prior to showing up to Chicago. So I'll give him that pass. But I mean, yeah, it's this, I don't know, tennis.
Starting point is 01:17:51 It's so crazy. I would rather have the other four guys. Yeah. What do you say? Wow, man. You'd rather have Austin Reeves and Zach Levine on your team. Yeah. No contracts involved one for one.
Starting point is 01:18:04 You'd rather have Austin Reeves and Zach Lee. Yeah. I would. I would. That's insanity. How do we help you? I would. How do we help you?
Starting point is 01:18:13 Genuinely. No. Do you know, is there local boys in gross club near you? I can get in contact with? No, I just think that like. Fuck that. Let's hit CVS and get him some fucking prescriptions because god damn no i what do you see in austin rees that you don't see i think that i think
Starting point is 01:18:26 they're damn the same skin color uh Zach Levine has like a 40 inch vertical vertical obviously Zach Levine's a much better shooter okay defense hand on both ends I can look at Zach Levine and go give me 40 he's done that plenty of times before for us and reves you can give you 20 in your here's okay but we need to apply Chicago Bulls tax but like if you are asking here's Here's the thing. If you are asking Zach Levine to go get you 40 to take you to the promised land, then your team is already flawed. Like he should not be in that,
Starting point is 01:18:59 he should not be in that situation. And Austin Reeves should not be. He's an explosive score. Austin Reeves shouldn't be in the situation either to be like, hey, we need you to go out and get 40 and do all this stuff. Okay, let's go roll by roll. Let's go by roll.
Starting point is 01:19:11 Next year of the Bulls, Levine's going to be the one option, healthy next to the young guys and Vucevich. Do you think they're better if they swap him and Reeves one for one? as a one actually i do no i don't i don't i don't i'm i'm i will be a hundred percent serious i don't know if it matters okay i'm being i'm being i'm being so i'm being so serious and i believe you i believe you inversely if you're the lakers and you swap out awesome views for zach levine's the third option do the lakers get better no come on what yes they do How do you not get better?
Starting point is 01:19:49 How quickly they forget. No. And I'm no. I'm with. Yes, because I'm with, listen, I'm with you guys. I'm with you guys. I'm with you guys. And Zach Levine right now is incredibly, incredibly underrated.
Starting point is 01:20:13 But I also think that Zach Levine is in this like weird tier where he also has some very high highs and some very low lows. And I think that that kind of like even its way out. And have we seen Zach Levine? play next to like you know lebron and a d and something like that and in theory it would work i don't know if an application it actually would and i don't yeah i don't i don't know i think that i think that the that the lakers right now with austin reeves they're doing they're doing just fine like in terms of in terms of a big three i think it's okay could be doing better if you guys mean I mean, listen, that's more, that's more about four through, four through nine, four through ten.
Starting point is 01:20:50 Facts. You know. Facts. No, I like Osmeries a lot, too. Apparently you like him more than I do, which I thought was not possible. But I get it. I think Zach Levine is probably just as good as he was two years ago or maybe two and a half years ago when he was an all star.
Starting point is 01:21:04 Just like DeMarter Rosen is just as good as he was two and a half years ago when he was really peaking. The difference is the bulls are fucking garbage and make these players look worse when nothing about them has changed. So everybody acts like Zach. Levine is like 85 years old and just like here's the cheese touch right now the scourge of the earth yeah like why does Zach Levine have the cheese touch nothing about him's changed except the fact that last year last year he went to the season
Starting point is 01:21:26 wanting to leave they didn't trade him it was dysfunctional he did shoot poorly so he had a bad stretch for those 22 games then he got hurt and he lost a year and that sucks you know he's not coming off of positive momentum which you'd like to see but yeah well he's not worse than Malik Monk Worse than Malik Munk, worse than Cedin McCollum, worst in Caruso's, come on, man. Listen, so if, I know, it's a pretty, it's a pretty year for Levine, right? I need to, I know what else we do?
Starting point is 01:21:58 I need to see it again. He is very flawed, like you said. I'll be the first one to devalue a bad defensive player, especially a bad off-ball defensive player, which he is. He's made strides on ball to be decent at best at times, but off-ball, he's not helping you in the rotations. He's not, you know, he's letting guys cut, do all these things, a lot of guards do.
Starting point is 01:22:16 I'll be the first and tell you those guys aren't super winning players. But a lot of us, like, see that and then we pretend the good isn't there. Like, he's not a good off the dribble three-point shooter. Like, he can't get to the rim. Like, he can't be a good isolation score, a good off-ball score. Like, the strengths are still pretty damn strong. And good for him. Yeah.
Starting point is 01:22:32 Good for here. I'm going to be very excited to see that this upcoming. See that. Nice. Real strong, Zach. Good job. Oh, man. This is good.
Starting point is 01:22:49 This rating for you right now is going to come back to bite you in the behind. Okay. For sure. I love how insane. I put up 27 and 24 like over the last few years. That's fine. I love how insanely different our lists are. This might be the most different list in T3 history.
Starting point is 01:23:05 And you know what? And here's why. Because all of it is valid. Because after the top five, the two guard position is, weak it's weak okay and so you can do whatever you want it's fine remember at the top of the show donovan said mo your number eight pick is going to be stupid yeah what do you think now what do you think now you really think that's stupid you have austin dixon's way better than austin reves what do we close my eyes i closed my eyes and took a shot if i had my eyes open if i saw the list
Starting point is 01:23:44 Maybe I could have made a better prediction, but I, that wasn't the case. He would have said number nine, he'd been right. You can't win all the time and deal, no deal. You don't pick the right case every time. It's fine. But to be fair, it is fucking dumb to put Devincento at 8, I think. Definitely not. No, no, no.
Starting point is 01:24:02 If you have Caruso at number 7, Devintonzo at 8 is completely valid, considering the shooting leap that he took and also all the defensive things that he does as well. Cruisos is first team all defense caliber. Diffichens is a great defensive player, but he also shoots eight threes a game and puts up, and it's a 40% level. That defensive gap is not something we can brush off. And they're always good too.
Starting point is 01:24:27 That is a massive defensive gap. But you also can brush off the eight of, throwing up eight threes a game while hitting 40% of them. You can't brush that off either, bro. That's literally something that's 10 players in the NBA today we're able to do. I love that. I love him to do. I'm not going to argue with this.
Starting point is 01:24:41 I love him to. I'm not going to argue. argue with you over the big rag group being hot so like we can move on we can move on he's special man i'll say the arguments of players i actually think are bad i like dante you can have it yeah exactly bro dante eight is very valid okay let's look at the top five we all have the same exact top five oh and the edwards number one devon booker number two donovan from mission number three jalen brown number four who honestly we added to this liz last second so we can make you a little bit better we were going to put in my small forward and then Desmond Bain number five that's interesting
Starting point is 01:25:14 I thought out to Desmond Bain exactly for real shout out to Desmond Bain Isaac I thought you were going to put Booker at one that's interesting see okay let's talk about this I think there is no harder debate in the NBA right now among rankings than Edwards Booker Mitchell the fact that we all agreed as crazy as fuck to me because they're essentially all 1A 1B and 1C I think I've never seen a tough three-year position so evenly matched it's like like Joellen B and Yokic, if Joel and B could actually win the playoffs, if he actually had a title or something, and you could be like,
Starting point is 01:25:47 listen, him and Yokers are going ban for band. Nivp for MVP. They're so close. If Joel NB. wasn't a folder, that's how close this is. These guys are on the exact same level to me. DeMitch is the best offensive player with the ball in his hands. Booker is the best versatile offensive player that can be off ball and on
Starting point is 01:26:03 ball while being a solid defender, and then Edwards is by far the best defender. Like, they all have their notches, but they're like all 95 of Rawls. yeah man it's bro it's it's tough and then I think that like you're right they are all 95s and the one thing that if you go one two three that separates them is just or or or and like it just gets lower as you go down the as you go down the top three but like but like you said that's the one reason why I put Edwards at one is just I think that when they're all at
Starting point is 01:26:35 their ceiling and it's crazy because Booker and Mitchell have hit like crazy ceilings but there's there's a two-way just like lock-in thing that Edwards can get to where you see him at his best and you're and you're like, is this the best player legitimately? Is this the best player in the league, right? Or like, or is I guess like if Yokic is yet to know, but like is this a guy that is going to be. You can definitely feel it. Yeah. Like it just, it feels different when you're watching it.
Starting point is 01:27:03 I don't necessarily feel that way. I think we, I understand what you say that. I think that's an overreaction to an aesthetic that we like from star players. When he's at, when he's at, I'm saying like when he's like a fit, like the, the mid-range jumper is falling as well, right? He's efficient, scoring, all that stuff. Like, you're like, okay, this is, this crazy. There's some Kauai there. When you watch them play defense in the jumper falls and be athletic of the room, there's some, there's some vintage Kauai Laird vibes there, for sure.
Starting point is 01:27:28 And honestly, I basically ordered them in level of defensive impact. Yeah, that's fair. It hurts so much that to put D. Mitch at 3 because he's so underrated. And he, he torched that sells. defense that had everybody else in hell she gave them 30 points per game in his sleep he is he's gotten better as a passer listen for years i've said devon booker's a pretty substantially better passer dmage has improved they're close to neck and neck as passers there like deemich is insanely underrated one of the best off the dribble scores one the best live ball creators for him and others
Starting point is 01:28:00 but man these top two guys are so fucking good wow oh man it's so crazy it's so crazy because over the last few years DeBook and Donovan Mitchell have been in consistent like one or two rankings and stuff like that and going back to what Donovan said like at times when you watch someone like
Starting point is 01:28:22 Anthony Edwards it does feel like yo like is this dude like the best player in the NBA with the impact that he's making across all levels of the field whether it be his three point shooting whether it be his defense finishing at the rim and just like being just wreaking havoc
Starting point is 01:28:38 in every aspect of the game. But with what Devin Booker does, it's just such a like a methodical way and he's easily the best pure shooter here. But then when you look at someone like Donovan Mitchell as well, so consistent, concise with his moves and obviously he's not the most athletic because Anthony Edwards is there,
Starting point is 01:28:54 but his athletic ability does give him a notch above Devin Bucker. So it's just like, it's hard to rank these three for sure. I've kind of want to. So what's crazy is I think there's a pretty good argument for Edward, Edward's being three, I think you either put Edwards one or you put him three. If you go one, it's because we buy in the defense being legit,
Starting point is 01:29:15 and we buy into him being this guy that can translate in the playoffs and have these ceilings that you live with the downsides because even when his shot isn't falling, he impacts the game defensively more than the other two guys do. But we're really glossing over some weaknesses and some inconsistencies there that some of the other guys might not have. We're really giving him credit for his strengths and kind of ignoring the weaknesses. So if you don't want to do that and you don't want to glaze,
Starting point is 01:29:37 like everybody else is. Well, hold on. I will stop you right there. I will stop you right there because even if his shot is not falling, he can affect the game. His defense travels. That's like the biggest thing. And that is something that I can't say about Devin Booker and Donald Mitchell. When the shot is not falling, of course you can, I think they're both better facilitators than Anthony Edwards. And if you want to use that, great. I can agree with that for sure. But the defense travels no matter what. And I think having complete control on that end of the floor, whether when all levels of the defense at that matter of fact, too, I think that's why there's no real argument for him to be put at number three. Yeah. And I agree. That's why I did it. But one could argue that we're
Starting point is 01:30:16 giving him a little bit too much defensive credit and ignoring the flaws, especially in the regular season. And one could argue that we're overreacting to like a great two weeks in the playoffs where he became Michael Jordan. And that's not, you know, like I said, I've been saying all, I've been saying on list I don't want to overact too much to small sample sizes and one can argue that we are and one could argue that the other two are better offensive players pretty noticeably yeah i think that's fair to go ahead and say that i'm so happy we're at locks down which might be might be that much better defensive or offensively for sure i'm not mad at any order like devon booker's so good off ball he's another guy that we need to give a son's tax due because the son's made him a point guard
Starting point is 01:30:54 because they saw that he's low-key a good passer and i think that was fucking dumb and that was bad for him because he's so good so good as an off-ball score and a secondary passer that to make him be the lead ball handler I think is like he can do it but I think it's not the best use of his skills at all and I need him to play with the point guard again at some point of his career because people don't forget what he looked like with that last year when CP3 was still good when he was on the MVP ballot Devin Booker is incredible at his free book fake MVP ballot that was the last bit thing yeah it was dumb but like whatever it was great like you know he had it was there I don't want to hear Jackson from you mr. MVPG about that
Starting point is 01:31:28 But I agree. It wasn't a significant MVP vote. The MVP thing was so much real than Devin Booker's MVP ballot. We are not doing this. He wasn't exactly the same level of real. It was exactly the same level of real. No, wasn't Devin Booker like number five a couple years ago?
Starting point is 01:31:43 Oh, PG was three. Kiss my ass. Great. He wasn't playing with Prime. He gets Prime Yokic. Nasty work. Oh, man. So some people are going to say,
Starting point is 01:31:54 Celtics fans, I should say, are going to be upset. We have Jalen Brown at four coming off of finals MVP. What do you say to those people? Jamlin Brown is clearly a couple of tears below. That's what I said. Edwards, Booker and Mitchell. Jalen Brown's a great player.
Starting point is 01:32:08 One of the best slashes in the entire NBA for sure. Improved to defense his defense dress when he comes to offball specifically and whatnot. But he's not the shooter that these guys are. He's not the creator that these guys are. He's not. You can't look at him and be like this dude can take me to the problems lane and be the best player on a championship level. you. You'll be damned. I think you said you're there
Starting point is 01:32:32 a few tiers below. I don't, that's too dramatic for me. If I said all three guys above are clearly 95 overall, like, lockstep. Jalen Brown's like a 93, 94. I think he's right below them. He's clearly right below them, but the difference isn't that big. I think his value, being able to fit with any team,
Starting point is 01:32:49 same way with Edwards, that defense is portable. He really locked in defensive this year. It was the best defensive's career, and it was clearly super impactful as why he was final as MVP. And just all the offball stuff. I really value him. It's just a matter of the top three guys being insane. But if you're a Celtics fan,
Starting point is 01:33:04 I don't think you're ridiculous for putting them top three. I think you're wrong, but I'm not mad at them for it. Portable. Yeah. I think if Jalen Brown was, if his shooting improved and just overall creating ability, like was one of the best like these three guys,
Starting point is 01:33:21 then this is a different conversation. But I think he's just outclassed in the situation right now. There's nothing wrong than being four. him before is a miracle bro it's a blessing especially knowing how he performed during his rookie and sophomore year and just looking like a very bleh NBA player
Starting point is 01:33:36 yeah the top three guys above him are just like some of the most gifted ball in their hands creators in the NBA and that's obviously not Jalen's game yeah yeah exactly now question could you see a world in where someone like Desmond Bain takes a leap over Jalen Brown and knocks him down to five
Starting point is 01:33:53 no no no world no is Jalen Brown no Wow I think Descent Bain is going to fall If anything's eventually some guys Are going to draft and come up here So let's get Desmond Bain his flowers Currently a top five shooting guard
Starting point is 01:34:06 He's not going to get any better than he is now So shout out him This is going to be his peak Thank you Wow Yeah I love Descent Bain I'm so happy he has his moment
Starting point is 01:34:14 He's so good Yeah I mean He's so good But Desmond Bain is only He can only take you so far I mean Memphis He was one of the healthier dudes on that on that roster and they won as many games for a good reason but yeah doesn't do
Starting point is 01:34:31 desmond bain is a shooter and we is obviously phenomenal that's what he's been known as since coming out of college but a lot of people did sleep on his playmaking ability and whatnot and those shades of you know being a secondary point guard at times was very real and that's the next evolution and growth of his game great dude but he's definitely not better than jaylon brown or the other three guys above him yeah yes you don't talk about clearly being a couple years below, Desmond Bain is clearly a couple of tears below these top four. Oh, for sure. Thanks. Yeah, man, that's a top five. It's interesting list. One of our most divisive ever.
Starting point is 01:35:05 I can't wait to see how the comments react because, you know, every time we do something like this, there's really for everything. There's certain factions for all three of us that love one of us and think the other two are bozos. All of us have a hive in the comments. It's going to be real interesting to see how those hives react because we all roast each other's list so much. Monk hive, stand up. stand what's your okay so real quick for you to what's your biggest regret with the with the list so far what's like the biggest move that you wish you could have made putting jane and green or not you think
Starting point is 01:35:33 back on it now it put in jane and green at 14 because i yeah because i just i just don't think he's he's like in the upper half of the league i don't have a regret i like my list but the bottom seven was such a fucking shithole of like i don't know how to differentiate these guys so maybe i'd redo that a good amount i don't really feel stronger about anything but any of those picks at all. But, you know, after that, the top 22 or so I feel good about. Hmm. Okay.
Starting point is 01:36:00 I can see that. I can see that. Like, NEMR, sure. You can put NIMR. Why not? Like, I don't think, but I wouldn't rather have buddy healed than NMHard. So I guess I'd flop.
Starting point is 01:36:06 That's what to them. NEMHARD's a great guy, man. Are you kidding me? Model Citizen. Love him. Great Canadian, bro. Yeah. And y'all, on that note, for the first time in three weeks, I can finally utter the words.
Starting point is 01:36:21 We're off to producer corner. Ooh. We're back, we're back, we're back. The streets miss you. What's up, brothers? The comments have been clamor for it. They've been missing your presence over the past couple weeks. Yeah, man, listen, comments.
Starting point is 01:36:40 I appreciate the love. I've been suspended. So, you know, this is the first good game back. I made some comments privately, you know, in our group chats to where the guys felt I was better served on the bench. So. HR had to step in. say that.
Starting point is 01:36:54 Yeah. House of Highlands was not happy with you. Yeah. This is my apology and, you know, I'm back. All right. There we go. Well, what do you have for a day for producer corner? What's your, what's your return going to look like?
Starting point is 01:37:10 Oh, man, listen, I thought, you know, we all have evergreen stuff and people have been asking me for this for a little bit. It's summertime. It's grilling season. It was the 4th of July. I was popping firecrackers. so we have a tier list for cookout foods we're rating meat over here let's do it
Starting point is 01:37:30 if that's how you want to go with it that's how you can go with it we're rating meat we're rating sides we're viving we're grilling we're out we're not grill Mo you're not grill mo you're please step away from the grill you know what I'm saying whoa whoa whoa whoa I throw that show he did burn buns you throw that shit on the grill and you forget to take it off
Starting point is 01:37:48 that's like the issue listen that was the one time thing. I was watching Paulo Ben-Caro clap the Cleveland Cavaliers' cheeks that one time. All right, it's over. Don't worry about it. I'm locked in and we're focused. Okay, you're locked in. Don, you ready? Yeah, let's go. All right, bet. Let's start off. Something easy. Classic burgers on the grill. I want you guys to rate everything as like a cookout thing. So it's going to be on the grill. There's people there. Might be a little overcooked. Let's go with that. The tiers are S-tier. the you know the second tier is you're going to want it but it's not make or break it's not there
Starting point is 01:38:26 third is just straight up kind of meh and then the fourth you just don't give a fuck about it okay okay so s tier is basically we're going straight for that if read a cookout we see this array exactly we know it's we know that's getting on our plate if it's not there like honestly you can just leave okay a burger a burger has to be there a burger has to be there burger has to be there it's the it's the found it's the one thing that everybody can like agree on and right and like the the only different Chating factor is like how much pink you want in your burger, but everybody from like little kids to grownups, I like a pink. Everybody has to get a burger on their on their plate. So burger is S too.
Starting point is 01:39:05 Bro, if you don't have a burger, if you're not grilling, if you're grilling, you don't have burgers, why are you grilling? Like what is the whole point? Exactly. I'm looking at you sideways. I think you're a freak. That's crazy. Yeah, I agree. Burgers are bread and butter. Yeah, exactly. Okay, so what about Coleslaw at the cookout? Please don't ever bring that around me. Don't give a flying fuck. Oh my God. Don't you ever bring Coleslaw around here?
Starting point is 01:39:31 Why'd you put it on here? Because honestly, in Coleslaw's defense, I think, I think Keynes has made like the general public overhate Coleslaw a little. Like everyone's like, oh, no Colesla extra toast. You know what I'm saying? It's not that bad. All right, it's a good palate cleanser. No.
Starting point is 01:39:46 Okay, so yeah, what's it for? Like, I don't like mayonnaise, so I would never eat coleslaw. what's the argument for like what's the purpose of coleslaw on a plate so like you can't if you eat coleslaw like if you eat coleslaw like on its own you're nasty but like it should be the only way that I've ever like been kind of okay with it if you put it on like a on like a chicken sandwich or something like I've had some some chicken sandwiches but they've had coleslaw and it's not it's not terrible but if you have a traditional coleslaw most of the time pack that up throw that away when I'm we're not doing that. Yeah, if we're being real, it's because cabbage is cheap and like protein is expensive.
Starting point is 01:40:27 So you're just trying to feed more people with like less money, basically. Because like if it wasn't there, you know. Keep it. Fucking cabbage, keep it.
Starting point is 01:40:37 I don't need that. I don't need that. I'm interested to see where you guys put this one. Steaks at a cookout. Steaks at a cookout. What kind of high class cookout are we going to? I want it, not make a break, right?
Starting point is 01:40:50 If it's that, like, if it's that kind of steak, right, if it's more of like a small family type of thing. Because I'm not making, listen, I'm not making stakes for 25 people. I'm not doing that, right? Yeah, that's what I'm saying. We're just not, you get, you guys are basals if you're making that. Holy shit. Some wealthy cookouts.
Starting point is 01:41:09 Yeah. If we, if we can, it would be cool. Just because it's all talk, I'm throwing straight, you know, waggy ribbyes on the grill. Just for you all, just because it's all talk. Don't go into depth, please. for that. All right. I'll appreciate it. I'll enjoy it. But I'll be worrying about you in the back of my hand. Don't do that. $300 of steaks at a cookout. No, thank you.
Starting point is 01:41:26 Yeah, I'm okay. I'm good. Man. Yeah, that's firmly second tier. Honestly, I'm most of the time, how about a cookout? Yeah, that's what I'm saying, right? Yeah. I don't really want steak. It's low-key men for me. Like, I like steak. It's cool, but like, I want a burger. I want a hot dog. I want some chicken. I don't want. Steak is like, that takes so much work to go ahead and eat around.
Starting point is 01:41:47 Like, when it's a burger, you're just chomping out the motherfucker. Hot dog, same shit. But a steak, you need a knife. You need a fork. You need to chow down and you have to be strategic with how you eat it. There's no strategy when it comes to eating hot dogs. They have hot dog competitions. No strategy to eating hamburgers, hamburger competitions.
Starting point is 01:42:03 I've never seen anyone really take their time or really like go ahead and casually eat steak. That's so crazy to me. I don't want classiness at my cookout. I agree with y'all. I think cookout steak is actually meth for me. And Isaac, I agree. Now, listen, instead of steak, if I said carne, I know Isaac would put that S tier. Okay.
Starting point is 01:42:20 We're bringing Karniazada here Karniazada is S-tier easily Easily Yeah, no, I just have to give you a Loki, I'm not going to lie I'm not going to lie That's the best, that's lucky the best Cookout food
Starting point is 01:42:32 And I don't think it's that hard to pick You probably want a taco form too No, I really I really hate Nico All right, so making fun of Isaac That's over with Listen, the racism, I'm not, the racism wins Because he's right, Cardia is sorry
Starting point is 01:42:45 No, no, easily it's like, it's not a close And let's keep it going, let's keep it going Watermelon What's up? I can't see Donovan on my screen right now. Nikiel and Isaac are on my screen and Nikiel, you're darker. I almost slurred you for this. This is crazy.
Starting point is 01:43:01 Who the hell puts what is that watermelon on a grill? Wait, I'm not going to like, it's actually, it's actually decent. Yeah, it kind of caramelizes up a bit. It's not, it's not bad. It's not bad. Yeah. Oh, Donna, why does just back him up? Because you are one of those.
Starting point is 01:43:16 No, it's very summer. Like some grilled peaches, some grilled pineapple. Group fruit. like a nice little fruit salad. That's what I'm saying. Grewed fruit is very underrated. We're just grilling anything. You grill fruit?
Starting point is 01:43:26 We're just a grill. What is Groot? Grude pineapple. Listen, grilled pineapple. They don't love the game, man. They don't understand. You don't,
Starting point is 01:43:32 you don't push your limits, right? I can tell that you are not a creative griller. And that's fine, right? It's okay. Oh, so now we're, it's okay. I don't lie. One day,
Starting point is 01:43:42 we're going to have a legit cookoff, grill off. You don't want that. You win in this situation. You don't want that. You don't want that. So we've already kind of sample this at Korean Barbecue. And Mo just kind of sat there. Watermelon?
Starting point is 01:43:55 Are you serious? No. Not. No. Well, we're just not going to grill in general. Why is it? I wasn't into it.
Starting point is 01:44:00 I'm not going to pass the most of water. Yeah, no. I wasn't. I wasn't. God forbid. No, no. When I heard that, I'm like, boy, y'all were grilling watermelon in front of me?
Starting point is 01:44:14 Where was I at? I was not there at that moment. Put it in this, dude. That's here, really. What? No, no, no. I will say it's very, it's mad summary, but watermelon in general needs to be at, at the event. That's so miscasted, warm water.
Starting point is 01:44:31 Do what you want with that. It doesn't have to be grilled necessarily. That's what I'm saying. You know, it's just cook out. Put it in, put it in tier two. It's only fair. Okay. Let's speed up.
Starting point is 01:44:41 We got a lot of food here. For sure, for sure. Ribs. Won it? Second tier. Yeah, yeah. It's very, it's very expensive. So, one.
Starting point is 01:44:50 it but not make a break but if you but if you try it if you try it you can't mess it up it you i do love ribs i don't know ribs i lookie i go to ribs i think so per so personally i'd say ribs are s and then we also have brisket here and i'd put that in the same brisket's okay you know yes brisket is s tier i love brisket so oh you think brisket so let's see brisket is the idea of brisket but most of the time when i eat brisket afterwards i'm like dan that was greasy as fuck and I feel kind of gross. Oh, I never, I never feel that. I never feel that way. But you know what?
Starting point is 01:45:25 Okay, we'll put brisket and ribs in esteer because I, yeah, I think, yeah, but they, but they are, they are elite. They are like that. Let's, if, if we're running out the steers, put hot dogs up there as well. Nothing needs to be said. It's a classic. All right. That's fine.
Starting point is 01:45:41 I did want to see who do you think could eat the most hot dogs in this, you know, in this call in 10 minutes. Mo. And why is it's smoking? I'm the biggest motherfucker here For sure Mow can absorb food Bro, I've seen him down shit
Starting point is 01:45:52 In like three bites When we just got our food And like his coke is already gone Within two seconds Yeah I got picking my menu I look at Donovan I'm like you want to split this appetizer
Starting point is 01:46:00 I look up and Mo's coke is already gone Can I get a refill? Yeah no I am definitely The biggest eater out of the three of us But it's not even like you're biggest eater You're just the biggest like speed eater Yeah
Starting point is 01:46:13 Like it's not like You eat the most Which maybe you do I don't know You just inhale stuff, though. The speed in which you inhale shit is crazy. Yeah. It's a skill that I've been working on for years, and I'm happy to see that it's finally paying off.
Starting point is 01:46:24 He's a skill issue. Real gulper. Okay. All right. Let's go. Let's go. For the moment that I'm in a food eating competition. That way I can wreck my competition, bro.
Starting point is 01:46:33 Where we go with beans, y'all? Me. Put that in me or I don't get a fuck. Like, who the hell is begging for beans? I don't get a fuck about the beans. Who the hell is what are out? Where the beans at? Weird, bro.
Starting point is 01:46:45 You're not invited to cook up. Babe beans are kind of fire. All right. For the, let's go. What's in this? All right, corn, corn. Yeah, you're lucky curries on this list. We're just getting racist.
Starting point is 01:46:56 We're just getting racist. Now, I don't really care about corn. I like, personally, I like corn, but I know it's not like a staple like that, like that, so it's okay. I think. I don't go fucking about corn. That's crazy. To me, it's wanted, but it's not make a break. That's crazy to me.
Starting point is 01:47:10 Grilled corn on the cob is like, that's summer to me. I've never had corn at a grill before. It's really, it's really good. Sometimes I like like the idea of it, but I don't want to eat it because it gets crazy stuck in my teeth. I just don't want to deal with that afterwards. It's a little bit of work for sure. I dare sure don't want a whole cough. That's so much corn.
Starting point is 01:47:28 All right, skewers. Yeah. This can be vegetables, meat, whatever. It's just, you know, it's kind of fun. No, I actually think they're, they're kind of met to me. I don't, I don't know. I don't know. What are we talking about?
Starting point is 01:47:40 They can. I'd say, let's say a mixture of, you know, vegetables and meat. anything that's on that security that's good I could already get an S or something like a kebab for sure yeah it's man I don't want to say kebabs I had a feeling Isaac would put that all the way bottom tier
Starting point is 01:47:55 like you just hear a kebaud and be like no really what's going on today what's going on today? Nah no I just don't know I had to keep it I had to keep it straight to the point you know what I'm saying alright let's keep on going so kebabs are me
Starting point is 01:48:07 all right rules S I need S okay yes all right mac and cheese has to be S right S S S S S, if it's done correctly for sure. Question though. Barbecue chicken.
Starting point is 01:48:19 Wait, wait, what's the question? Do you, are you really eating mac and cheese at every single? No, that's second two for me. It's not, okay. Mac and cheese, it just feels like much more of like a, like a formal, cold weather. Yeah, colder type of thing. Yeah, is this Thanksgiving? Like, the fact that don't know mac and cheese.
Starting point is 01:48:37 If it's there, I'm meeting it, bro. Yeah. But if it's, but if it's not, like, you're not going to flip the table over because there's no mac and cheese when it's July. I'm not going to flip the table over anything. Oh, my God. Where your manners at? Are you flipping tables? Are you flipping tables over watermelon, grilled watermelon not being there, Donovan?
Starting point is 01:48:56 That's what you tell me right now? That's a crazy. First of all. No, watermelon? I'm not trying to send myself. Exactly. I'm not trying to send myself up for that. So, what's the next option?
Starting point is 01:49:08 What's the next option? Potato salad. I need that. I need that. Like, really? like massive bro at a cookout it's like warm mayo you know what I mean it's not even going to be like
Starting point is 01:49:20 I damn sure don't need that I need that I have two tubs of potato salad in my fridge right now I need potato salad at the cookout at all times it's like a staple for me I agree I need it I love potatoes it's a great I've been
Starting point is 01:49:35 I've been grilling kind of frequently so I need it I do need the potato is still crazy anyways moving on barbecue chicken s tier right or is it second s tier
Starting point is 01:49:48 yeah for sure I'd say second I think it's a notch below hot dogs and burgers no no no I think no I think like hot dog burgers chicken
Starting point is 01:50:01 that is essential right like that you can actually put that in a tier above brisket and and ribs because those two items are very expensive but if you just say like
Starting point is 01:50:11 hey come over we're putting stuff on the grill those three things have to be there yeah yeah no I don't I don't disagree with you all right bake potatoes you know grilled potatoes yeah I'm really care
Starting point is 01:50:24 I'm fine with the second tier because like I say second tier because like what am I gonna do I'm just gonna take everything above it and just put it like I'm fine okay I have it's it's a great size brisket baked potato you know what I'm saying
Starting point is 01:50:39 there's some work to be done there all right It's some nice simple carbs alongside all those protein. I think I want it. We can put up this fine. I'm not flipping. So whatever. Whatever.
Starting point is 01:50:50 That's what is. Another TD3 successful tier list. We did it. Look at us. Look at us. You know what? Now we're off the TikTok time to do another tier list. Yeah.
Starting point is 01:51:01 Less ready, crown eaters. Double tier. Rejoice. Hoot, hoot, hoot. Who do you? Welcome to TikTok time. Like I said, said before the transition, we are here with our second tier list of the episode. God, my
Starting point is 01:51:16 voice sounds like fucking Jojo Siwa. But this tier list is going to be a tier list of iconic NBA photos. Wow. So some different stuff from out throughout the course of NBA history. Some of them funny, some of them hard, some of them iconic, shit you'd see on a poster, a wide variety of NBA photos in front of us today. Okay. Let's start. Okay. Let's start to something right. Yeah. So So first photo, we got D. Wade lobbing it up to LeBron from the Miami Heat. S tier. S.T. You've seen this picture. You've seen people try to recreate this picture. You've seen Dwayne Wade and LeBron talk about this. You've seen this is the poster, the picture when you think about the Hedels. It's this shot right here. This is an, it's S tier. You said everything I wanted to do. I completely agree, bro. This is the photo when you talk about. the D. Wade and LeBron pairing.
Starting point is 01:52:13 Yeah. And then again, this list is going to get crazy real fast, but as of now, this makes sense as an S too. Yeah. For sure. Keeping on the topic of LeBron James, we got a picture of LeBron James on the first page of a book. He's reading the autobiography of Malcolm X. He's on like page four. It's very funny. There's like five, ten pictures of him on the internet on the first page of every single book. It's a pattern. Yeah. The rap is bad with him, bro. He has a bad rap when he comes to reading. It's a personality trait at this point
Starting point is 01:52:41 Some tells me he's not actually reading these books And you see the cameras around Some people like to read books Some people like to buy books and start books I think LeBron might be the latter 100% Yeah this is a cool scene Maybe D because we've seen this trick from him
Starting point is 01:52:55 Consistently Oh Okay I'll go He's not to watch I go see Yeah okay It's funny
Starting point is 01:53:04 That was crazy Yeah Okay contending on the topic of LeBron James We have LeBron on Instagram Saying up watching a little Tom and Jerry Before we had to school With five or like
Starting point is 01:53:15 Eight year old Brody James And Brach's next to him It's so wholesome I don't understand the point of that bro Very wholesome of course But who asked He's such a millennial The way he's on the camera
Starting point is 01:53:26 Up going before we're going on Oh like it's so funny It's like he accidentally When he accidentally posted that on Instagram And it was meant to be a photo for his mom bro What we're doing? B, we're going to B? It's wholesome.
Starting point is 01:53:41 B is cool. Being a good father's cool. We'll put that at B. Exactly. Shout out being a good father. Great role model, bro. All right. Similar vibes.
Starting point is 01:53:52 We have, we run that to that. We got Paul George and his mirror selfie. He's feeling himself right here. This is your man's, Mo. Now. See, if you have to try to explain it for him, it's terrible. Put that in. D, put the end of it.
Starting point is 01:54:10 You're trying to explain your way out of it. It's not hard. This picture is so 2013. It's so deep fried. All the filters in the world are on it. Yeah, it seems like he posted this when he was like 14, 15 years old asking for a rate. Yeah. You remember people used to do those?
Starting point is 01:54:29 Like for a rate, to be honest. Yeah, to be honest, yes, those right there. You sound so old. You sound so old right now. he's got that goddamn he has that goddamn iPhone 5 his mouth a little bit open is deep fried
Starting point is 01:54:44 this is so 2013 the hole's gonna lie this it's so bad meanwhile he's at the end of his rookie contract he's been in the NBA for years why is he taking pictures like this still that's funny
Starting point is 01:54:57 big tatem vibes all right next up next up we got reggie Miller and his choke photo S put this Listen, S. So insulting, bro. Donovan, as a Knicks fan.
Starting point is 01:55:11 This ass. He did that to Spike Lee with his wife sitting right next one. You can't do that to me. You can't disrespect me like that with my lady right there. Come on, man. That's crazy. That's crazy. It's an easy S tier, bro. This thing, right, this photo right here travels across genres.
Starting point is 01:55:31 No matter what scenario you're talking about. That's true. Put it in ass. That's true. There's never been a phone. photo that greater represents choking. Yeah, exactly. Choking in a multitude of manners,
Starting point is 01:55:42 bro. Put it in S. I threw a lob and nobody took it. Next photo. Kevin Durant's my next chapter picture. From when he left, OKC. I hate it, but this might be another S. Fuck.
Starting point is 01:55:56 It's one of the best, it's one of the most worn out memes ever. Anytime any team wins, people post Kevin Durant, next free agency. They could say like, They could have the Mets on it or something It's a random ass team
Starting point is 01:56:09 I don't know why but Katie took this photo shoot As if he just got baptized or something like that Like it's an enormous life-changing decision Now it did join the Warriors life changing for sure But damn bro This is when Katie was entering his media mogul era He wanted to expand do more than basketball This is a step one memorable
Starting point is 01:56:25 Get a photo with me like this Looking up to the sky Like why is it so methodical for the reason This is going to mean so much from my legacy Exactly this is not going easy as to me it's not an easy es to you don't put this a okay we can reserve the STO for the best of the best come on man okay speaking of the best and the best what do you guys want to do with carlithy talents trying to
Starting point is 01:56:48 score against DeMarcuscous cousins who this is one of the funniest images of all time this might be STI'm not trying so hard and DeMarcus does not care he is not impacted and he's trying so little he's like Who fans? It just can't be S or A because I don't see this too much anymore. It has no life span. It's lost in a B. I'll go B because it really, it really is funny.
Starting point is 01:57:15 But you're right. Like, we don't see it a lot. So we'll put that down at B. This did so much to hurt. This did so much to hurt Carlton Towns's reputation around the league. It was the start of his, the decline of his like PR team being elite for sure. Okay, we can go beat here What about Zion Williamson's
Starting point is 01:57:38 Devious ass smart Hey put that in F for freaky That's a that's a freak That is a freak right there And he knows it That's why he's smiling like that He knows it We know it
Starting point is 01:57:49 Everybody knows it F dear F for sure Why is he grinning well You know how uncomfortable It must be as a cameraman Just being like All right
Starting point is 01:57:57 Your turn Zion And he's like Ugh bro I'm uncomfortable Right now Yeah I'd be like, you good? You realize we're in a photo shoot right now?
Starting point is 01:58:07 The cameraman says, say cheese and zons, what do you mean by that? Yeah. Yeah. All right, we got, back to LeBron James. LeBron be mad at J.R. Smith, putting his hands up. We've rated this as an S-tier. We're locked step. It's an S-tier photo.
Starting point is 01:58:26 You've never seen. I don't think LeBron has been mad at his kids. The level that he was mad at J.R. Smith. this is crazy just how disgusted he was with jr smith the raw display of human emotion is insane he saw his legacy flash before his eyes here goes lebron playing arguably his greatest game ever scored 51 points on the prime golden state warriors and nobody's going to care about it the way that they should because jr smith was out here smoking rifa before the game such a such a shame lebron don't know such a shame
Starting point is 01:59:03 yeah he don't know if he should be mad he don't know if he should be upset he don't know if he should be confused so he's all three of those things in one photo hmm est here it is wow I what do we go with the iconic
Starting point is 01:59:22 because of Twitter the iconic photo of Celtic shack this is a very like it's so good it's the same way that Reggie Miller is perfect picture for choking this is the perfect picture for being watched yeah it is but it doesn't yeah it doesn't span across i was gonna say beat here it doesn't span across like it's a very twitter joke if you just see a picture of subject shack you have to really really be online but
Starting point is 01:59:51 if you're outside touching grass you just say hey this is just old man shack so i'm going i almost sent this to is i almost sent this to is i almost sent this to is bro because he's over here catching COVID in like 2024 like that's ridiculous what type of timing is he on let's put this in I would put this in S personally it means so much to me you you can have it you got it yes it means so much to you by all means you put it wherever you want it doesn't mean shit to me yes here it is where do you want to go with the banana boat boys put that in it put that in it hey it really it's not the best of the best we really have to start being more We have to show some more discernment with these pictures.
Starting point is 02:00:34 A tier is right there. It's a great picture, right? It's very funny. But let's just just a notch below. More wants to put everything in us. This right here is what I wouldn't put in us, though. I would definitely put that. He's just going off of memories.
Starting point is 02:00:49 It's been dragged out. But this wasn't like, yeah, I just didn't like the whole banana boat crew thing going on. You ever been on a banana boat? A little bit dragged out to me. no exactly you don't get it but it's okay if i wasn't a man but yeah but yeah we'll put that we put that i'm just having a i'm just having a good time with my guys what's what's so funny about it doesn't guys being guys dudes exactly that a book goes bad that book goes and see let's keep moving you all saying see but saying everything we got yeah see we got Kobe bry
Starting point is 02:01:22 after winning the championship it should it should be as people are trying to ruin it though flooding out the memory of this. Everybody wants to recreate it. You are not Kobe. Kyle Coosma, you started a terrible trend that I would never forgive you for it. And it's Kyle Coosma.
Starting point is 02:01:38 Like, you weren't even, come on, man. Hey, hey, I'm going to. At least Jason Tatum
Starting point is 02:01:45 had the, Jason, thank God, Jason Tandum had the restraint to not quite do that. You know he wanted to, but he asked his agents
Starting point is 02:01:52 and they're like, nah, bro, you're already in the blender. Can't get any more hate. You know he wanted to. Go ahead. A tier it is. What about Will Chamberlain, scoring 100 and holding the paper up?
Starting point is 02:02:03 Once again, we're putting that in F for fake. What? This did not happen. Why? It did not happen. I love that anytime Walt Chamberlain's name is up, Donovan just turns into Alex Jones. How do you know it didn't happen? Were you there?
Starting point is 02:02:18 It didn't happen. It didn't happen. I don't believe it. I was going to say you don't have any proof that it doesn't happen. Nobody has any proof. He's a plan. It happened. he thinks
Starting point is 02:02:32 it's an idea okay well it's a deep state CIA plan but because because you're sick
Starting point is 02:02:41 because you're sick right now because because because you're sick right now your voice fits that perfectly
Starting point is 02:02:46 no trust me I got Alex Jones impression in my back at all times some matter how to
Starting point is 02:02:53 bet that's an impression I can do in my sleep that bed's voice is ridiculous they're gonna fucking demonetize us for saying his name all right what's next
Starting point is 02:03:04 we got draymond green putting ridicobair in the headlock this man is dangerous this man is dangerous I just seeing anybody get choked out on an NBA court it's crazy put this in a this is amazing moment
Starting point is 02:03:21 choked out like put to sleep that's crazy that's crazy back touch the ground anytime there's a dunk that happens and we say somebody's back touches the ground is immediately an amazing moment if a fight happens
Starting point is 02:03:34 and your back touches the ground that's even crazy sang nasty that's what they call it Sag nasty yeah that's what they call its hometown
Starting point is 02:03:43 hmm so A tier of course okay fucking A tier A tier is getting a little bit too crowded so yeah but whatever okay what about drumming and Tori Craig
Starting point is 02:03:55 try to dunk the same ball F more f bro yeah we we have to have standards for ourselves like it's a funny picture but at the same time like come on man like come on come all they're not NBA greats at all neither room wait andrew jim has been an all-star so yeah but put that bitch in f still no one cares put that bitch in yeah okay what about the iconic photo of Kobe and lebrong guarding each other in the all-star game that drinks ass ruined by standing up and clapping it should have been
Starting point is 02:04:30 but Kobe's there still and LeBron's there still so it could be A but there's I'm with Mo we got this goddamn cheerleader standing up showing the back of his head I'm with I'm with Mo
Starting point is 02:04:43 it should be yes but we have to put it A because Mr. Mr. Graham is in the picture right now he's his value is at all time low so we're putting that in it yeah
Starting point is 02:04:54 so where we're going Yeah, hey. Okay, I'm fine with that. Let's put an A tier. And the last one, we got Alan Iverson stepping over at Tyrol. You know what it is. You know what it is. That's S-T.
Starting point is 02:05:10 Come on. Ultimate sign of disrespect. Whenever someone steps over and in another NBA player, they literally look over them just like how AI is, bro. They're trying to do most disrespect. I know this is a trend that's never going to die. He set the standard for doing a disrespectful step over. Everyone's going to replicate this forever. He changed the game of disrespect.
Starting point is 02:05:27 Like, how can we, how can we not, how can we not show him the gratitude that we have for disrespect? He is quite literally one of the founding fathers of aura, Alan Iverson, bro. Wow, the founding father of aura. What a nickname. Yeah. When it comes to real quick, I'm stealing that. Rush, Mount Rushmore of ORA, Alan Iverson is top. He's up there, bro.
Starting point is 02:05:49 He's up there easily. Complete facts. That should be a TikTok, honestly. I think he's actually not on it. The Mount Rushmore is just titled Mount Iverson. he's above it like he is like you said oh the blazing is insane myrison holy shit Mount Iverson
Starting point is 02:06:05 that's top tier glaze the glaze that's crazy I change your mind I change your mind never mind he's on it it's Mount Irving Julius Irving was the first one with aura yes he's the originator of Orr
Starting point is 02:06:19 back in his day he was different that's true however I'm going back to Mount Iverson because they put in a dress code because of Valen Iverson. He changed the game. He changed the game. He did. He changed the CBA.
Starting point is 02:06:34 Not just the game. He changed the CBA. That's crazy. Tough. All right, man. Next thing we're going to do. Next thing we're going to do. I'm going to show you guys two NBA teams
Starting point is 02:06:46 from different countries. It's going to be like an all-time line of the country's best players. International. And you're going to tell me which country has the best all-time starting five who would win in a series of two? in your bag let's do it like you know the Olympics are coming up we're looking at some historical
Starting point is 02:07:02 NBA players in your bag let's do it bro to me first off we got Spain versus oh no Spain wrong I got the slides in an order we have Germany versus Australia that Luke longley is that his name yeah yep Luke longingly I don't know why I remember his name I don't remember what he looks like at all. I just have sense. That's a luke right. So for audio listeners, we have Dennis Schroeder, Detliff Schrempf, Franz Wagner, Dirkt Dvitzky, and Sean Bradley for Germany.
Starting point is 02:07:36 In Australia, we got Ben Simmons, Carrie Irving, Joe Ingalls, Luke Longley, and Andrew Bogot. See, Germany should win, but you get a peak Ben Simmons and a peak Andrew Bogget. I just know that Australia runs a beautiful giving go, right? And honestly, if you're not... we switch ben simmons out for olympic patty mills australian gets it oops no olympic patty is he is he is but if i guess listen patty he's not patty's not here we don't have patty so i got to go with germany the spacing is disgusting with luke and bogan i'm definitely going with germany and ben simmons oh my god and ben simmons so i forget that every time i see
Starting point is 02:08:18 ben simmons i'm just like that doesn't exist i don't know what a ben simon never heard it never seen it. What is that? And then Germany, you got Dirk and seven foot four Sean Bradley. The interior force is crazy. Yeah. I'm waiting in Germany for sure. Everybody who's ever played has dunked on Sean Bradley. Ben Zemmes might put him in a
Starting point is 02:08:37 fucking casket. Ben ain't doing nothing. He's not dunking on anybody. He couldn't do it against Trey. Why would I believe he do it against Sean Bradley? All right. I don't know. We're going Germany. Germany clears pretty easily. Sorry, Harry. Next up. We got Spain versus Canada. Canadian.
Starting point is 02:08:52 Again. Canadians. The broadie listeners, while you guys think about this. For Spain, we got Ricky Rubio, Jose Calderone, Wally Zerbiak,
Starting point is 02:09:02 Pao Gasol, and Martin Gassal. Wally Zerbiak was, he was Spanish? He is. See, that's a, that's crazy.
Starting point is 02:09:08 That's, that's a, that's a Joel and B type situation. That's crazy. That's crazy. He didn't play for Spain. He's,
Starting point is 02:09:16 he's American, but he's Spaniard, but he's an American. It's kind of like Harry. I was going to say, show me your document. Cementation, sir. No, no, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he was born in Spain, but he's
Starting point is 02:09:27 no, there's too many, there's too many consulates for you to be on the Spanish national team. That's kind of crazy. But, in Canada, we have Steve Nash, Shagullis, Alexander, Wiggins, Rick Fox and Tristan, but I will be going with Spain, though. Spain clear, it's like, Rick Foss. Easy. Yeah, Rick Fox and Tristan Thompson is such a treacherous, like, big line up, bro.
Starting point is 02:09:48 See, those two guys don't have shit for the Gasol twins, but Rubio and Colerone have even less for Steve Nash and she that's crazy again international Jose Calderon Shay has she has nothing for international Jose Calderon He'll all right we can't go with you he'll have a damn thing I'll tell you that No with that that big to big connection for Spain's crazy but yeah this is tough I'm not gonna lie There's a Wally made an all-star team Wally had a moment I think
Starting point is 02:10:17 but Rubio and Colorado I don't know Rubio is guys Don't disrespect Ruby This is Spain Like it's in Spain It's not It's not even close You also gotta keep in mind
Starting point is 02:10:29 When Spaniards link up They get like plus 10 And all attributes They have the most team chemistry Ever in international They beat these guys By 15 easy And like it'll defy logic too
Starting point is 02:10:40 It'll be like the least talented team You've ever seen But they're fucking Spaniards And they're linked up And they're gonna dominate everybody It's not the US Mm-hmm That's true
Starting point is 02:10:48 Chemistry is at this world I'm so I have no decision on this I'm so tied up bro Who's worse Wiggins Fox In Tristan Thompson or Rubio Caldor and Zurbiac
Starting point is 02:10:59 Canada Okay Canada Sorry or man The Spaniors are getting you out of there We're trusting To Gassal brothers All right let's roll Next one
Starting point is 02:11:09 We have Greece versus Nigeria And then you guys look at this Think about it For audio listeners Monté Morris Gay Vincent Josh Akogi Al-Faruku Minu and Hakeem Ilajuwon for Nigeria
Starting point is 02:11:21 And Greece is Tyler Dorsey Costa Tena Kumpo Thanassas Latunipo Yana Satinikumpo and Costa Kufis Question Tyler Dorsey Ogee Atlanta Hawk I remember your game
Starting point is 02:11:35 Oh my God He's not even a point guard We just have very few options for the Greek team He's one-sided as hell I know his game Question Listen Ha ha listen
Starting point is 02:11:46 When three on Tentacupo brothers roll up What do you do about it? I don't know if Josh Okie has. I don't know. I don't know. Wait. Wait. I don't know if a men who has the facilities for that.
Starting point is 02:11:59 Listen. I'm going to go with Nigeria because their lineup actually looks like an NBA lineup. Yeah. They could actually shoot the wall. Like if you put this lineup, if you put this lineup in 1996, the rockets might three people, right? Like you, you might, you might, you might, you might, you might, you might. So I think I'll go with Nigeria Listen, Monti Morris
Starting point is 02:12:21 In the era where all you had to do for point guard is dribble up And throw an entry pass He might be an all-star Monti Morris can throw the fuck out of an entry pass Let's go Nigeria No love for the No love for the Greek trio No man
Starting point is 02:12:37 I got Nigerian in my blood partially bro I'm going with the West Homer pick okay Diaspora Yeah sorry Is it diaspora Yonis? Goldstes?
Starting point is 02:12:50 Listen, we're being real. Yadis. Eight of these 10 players are from Nigeria. Let's talk about it. Damn it. Where's Dorsey from? I don't know. Might be nine.
Starting point is 02:13:07 All right. Next up. I don't know. Dorsey looks funny, but yeah. Nonetheless, let's go. We have Serbia versus the United States, but only from the state of Mississippi. So we have For Serbia we got Tia Dostich Bogdanovich
Starting point is 02:13:23 Stoyakovich Vladivok and Nikola Yokic And from Mississippi we got Mo Williams Monta Ellis Rodney Hood Spencer Haywood and Al Jefferson I'm sorry Al Jefferson
Starting point is 02:13:35 But you were never destined to guard Vladi Divac and Nicola Yokic You are in hell Hey they got a Hall of Famer in Spencer Haywood Great Is he really Hall of Famer?
Starting point is 02:13:47 Great. That's a 1970 ABA MVP to you, sir. And in the words of Max Kellerman, who was on crack? Oh, wait, Stephen A. Smith. Oh, no, I messed up. I messed up. Oh, my God.
Starting point is 02:14:00 Wait, are you serious? No, he was on crack, though. He was out here. Oh, yeah. He was out here. Oh, I actually didn't know that. That is crazy. You didn't watch winning time?
Starting point is 02:14:10 He was smoking rocks. And crack on MVP? That might actually might be even more impressive. I might. Yeah. It was post. Yeah, it was late later in the career. Oh, you're a nasty guy for being let out.
Starting point is 02:14:21 Bringing up his outside, off the court life, you're nasty. I'm sorry. It was on crack. Oh. Listen, we're going with Yolkits and the Serbs? Mississippi boys. Milos and Yokic's passing combination is fucking crazy, bro. A lot of people...
Starting point is 02:14:42 With Steyakovich and Bogdan shooting threes? I don't know. That's kind of nasty. Oh, I. It's a clean sweep for sure. I love Monte Ellis. Ronnie Hood. Yeah.
Starting point is 02:14:52 They have, they have shooting over there. They got it. Easy. It's not even close. Oh, Mo Willey is Monta Ellis, Ronnie Hood? Next to an MVP?
Starting point is 02:15:01 Who? Nah. No, they got it. Not everyone. They got it. Let's be real. I should have picked the stronger state. Damn, we should have Atlanta.
Starting point is 02:15:11 Atlanta. It's so funny. I should do Atlanta. Just Atlanta Hey, who would we Okay, just for fun And shit and Google Who would be at Atlanta?
Starting point is 02:15:22 Now, let's not think about it, never mind. I don't even know. I'm having too much fun. I'm having way too much fun. Atlanta. Right, so that's the end of that. Atlanta.
Starting point is 02:15:33 Dwight. Anthony Edwards, Jalen Brown. Could be case Next thing we're going to do. We had a blind ranking to do, Mo. I think you have some NBA
Starting point is 02:15:44 logos for us to blind rank. Oh, yes, sir. Everybody loves their blind rank because we haven't done one in a little bit. But this time we're doing, again, another brain. People really do love these. I know. And I understand why. Another blind ranking.
Starting point is 02:15:58 And we are going to blind rank NBA logos. Based off whatever you feel about them, you guys are logo fanatics, fiends. You know what a good logo is and what a bad logo is. Well, let's see if you guys can go ahead and get these logos. Correct. Okay. Blankly. That's a long lead up.
Starting point is 02:16:16 I know. Go ahead. Let's go ahead and blindly rank these NBA logos. All right. So number one, we have the Oklahoma City Thunder. Four our best. That's a weak-ass logo. It's not great.
Starting point is 02:16:30 Wow. It's not great. Four? Low-key, you go five. I don't know. There's no logo in the NBA right now that I think is, like, drastically worse to where I feel bad about OKC being five. Hmm. Four.
Starting point is 02:16:42 All right. We'll go five. We'll go five. We'll start from the bottom. you go put that shit dead last please rebrand this team this team is way too cool to have this old-ass logo give us something fresh speaking about rebranding rebranding the los angeles clippers they have a new logo this up and coming four mbac or four either no higher than three right yeah i listen let's just keep working our way up we'll go to four yeah i'm
Starting point is 02:17:06 five oh four yes and we start from the bottom making way to the top like you said climb the ladder we're getting better okay okay the tortoise beats the hair okay what about the Boston Celtics see this is an elite logo has so much history right you have you not only have the the leprechaun you have so much other stuff I is that I'm gonna go to I'm gonna go to yeah how many logos are clearly better in the league like 10 see I mean that's like it's old but is it like is it elite that's a third of the league is that it has history I'm gonna have to be at I won Let's go two
Starting point is 02:17:47 We can't go higher than two There's some stronger logos out there All right We'll go Boston at two But we'll respect the history True This is white culture right here All right
Starting point is 02:17:57 Next up the Chicago Bulls That's one That's one That's one This is why we say The number one spot This is listen Maybe they're Michael Jordan
Starting point is 02:18:06 Merchants But Michael Jordan happened And now this is one The most fashionable logos In sports history That's why I trust you Who's number three Are we gonna regret this?
Starting point is 02:18:15 New York Knicks And that's fine Maybe I would Put the Knicks above the Celtics But three is perfectly fine It's not a bad list Our list is not cooked Because we have the NICs at three
Starting point is 02:18:25 This good job from us Many would say it's a perfect list Many would Not go what I think y'all actually cooked Good for you actually cooked Okay We do this
Starting point is 02:18:36 We do this for time to time You know It's kind of Do you think we're like the When you think about The reach we have on TikTok and shorts and how we've done with logo videos. Do you think that we're the like preeminent logo experts on NBA media?
Starting point is 02:18:54 Is that fair to say? I think it's like us and Zach Lowe. Now, is that going to logo? Zach Lowe cares. He cares about logos. He cares about courts. We need Zach Lowe on the podcast. I, listen.
Starting point is 02:19:04 We need the grandfather. I respect Zach Lowe for his dedication to the aesthetic game of the NBA, 100%. Yeah. You said we should have Zach Lowe on the show. I think I would be more starstruck potting with. Zach Lowe than I would like LeBron Wow really I've been watching Zach Lowe for so long
Starting point is 02:19:21 That would be crazy to do a podcast of Zach Lowe And when we clip this Someone's gonna go ahead and clip this one right here And when that happens That call us up next year two three years Call us up our people will talk to your people It's good It's not impossible to make it happen
Starting point is 02:19:33 Like it's not crazy we could one day It could if we have the reach And the accessibility Granny or like to go ahead and like the goddamn podcast Okay next thing we're going to do donovan i think you had a game you wanted to play about guessing players i did okay so listen so i have so not not necessarily players but i have eight NBA related phrases right you guys have 15 words i'm going to give you as as just as little words as possible we're going to see if we can get
Starting point is 02:20:04 get you guys to guess these eight words in 15 words or less what does that mean we have 15 So I, so all I can say, so like if I was saying, if I was to say like if the word was like Nix or, yeah, if the word was like Nix, then I would say like Brunson and you would have to try and guess Nix. You see what I'm saying? And so if it takes you, if it takes you one word to get to get to Nix, then that's one word. I mean, let's get it. I've seen this on TikTok, never tried it before.
Starting point is 02:20:39 I don't know if we'll be good at it, but I'm willing to try. All right, listen, 15, 15 words. I'm great at everything that I do. 15 words, eight, uh, clues, whatever. Let's try to start. All right. Yeah, so people at home, let me just explain to people at home. Donovan has a list of eight words that we're going to try and guess.
Starting point is 02:20:55 And essentially we have 15 lives. He's going to give a hint, one hint per word. We have to guess what it is. And if we get one wrong, that's like a ding. And we can only get 15 wrong ones. So it's kind of hard to explain, but we have 15 opportunities to get eight words correctly. Yeah. And you got, you got, again, you guys will, we'll, we'll,
Starting point is 02:21:11 get it now before before we hit listen I don't know if you guys can can see me but we got a we got a lock in understand who is giving the clues right I'm going to try and lob some to you guys you guys are going to have to cast these lobs all right so first off first clue king LeBron James we're off we're off one for one okay number one we're in there second word second clue bang okay Mike brain
Starting point is 02:21:46 is that the official guess Mo you go with that if it's not Mike Green then it's either Steph I'm fine with Mike Green I try Mike Green first if it's wrong we go Steph
Starting point is 02:21:58 so official guest Mike Green? Bang that is correct that is correct all right there we go I like the consulting we're going to go we're going to go
Starting point is 02:22:10 Robertson Robertson I mean Robertson the first thought is Oscar is that where we want to go mo sure let's do Oscar
Starting point is 02:22:25 what about triple double can he be like abstract things like that yeah we're not we're not just guessing players or people we're guessing like things and stuff like that just M just yeah yeah I don't think he'd say he's just the name, so let's go triple double.
Starting point is 02:22:41 Yeah, triple double. Bang, three in a row. Let's go. Listen. Isn't that motherfucker, boy? Teamwork. I'm fucking like that. You never seen the memory like me.
Starting point is 02:22:51 Next one. Irrelevant. The Clippers. What do you think, Isaac? I think it's probably the Clippers. You guys, you guys know me so well. It's the Clippers. That one's pure, like, reputation.
Starting point is 02:23:09 Exactly. I'd rather watch a toll. If you know, you know. All right. So listen, you guys haven't been able to see me. My camera's been off this whole time. I'm turning it up because you guys have to see me when I say this. He, he.
Starting point is 02:23:24 Magic Johnson. There we go. There we go. Okay. Next one. Short king. Short king. Well, that could be a lot of people.
Starting point is 02:23:34 Jerry Krause. No, I'm just kidding. Short king. A lot of people. Okay, wait a minute. Wait a minute. At first I was going to say a small guy like Chris Paul. Does he mean the small version of LeBron, Eric Bledso?
Starting point is 02:23:48 I don't know. It could also be someone who formerly had the title of King of the fourth quarter, Isaiah Thomas. Oh, no. Or the short version of LeBron, Brony James. It's fresh. Let's throw that shot out there. Ronnie James. That is incorrect.
Starting point is 02:24:07 So now, so next. Next clue. going to bring it home here Boston okay oh Isaiah Thomas there we're right you're right Isaiah Thomas all right next one tattoos what you said tattoos tattoos tattoos yeah what is it catch you tattoos tattoos like oh yeah how many words are we so someone with some shit crazy this is word number seven no we've only got one wrong so far four five six
Starting point is 02:24:42 seven okay I'm envisioning someone with like eight the craziest tattoos point blank period my brain goes to bird man I was going to say the same exact thing we're on lockstep but what we're going to say J.R. Smith
Starting point is 02:24:56 let's do birdman let's see what birdman that is incorrect I'm sorry fuck my strength well I have to give it i have to give another word oh okay okay so next word pipe pipe it's reel it in
Starting point is 02:25:18 jr smith you're right yeah that's crazy because i know the reference jrr smith it is all right last last one let's bring it home i i we're definitely under 15 words right now so i'm i'm i'm a used to one guess health insurance health insurance oh you just said this guy I know this is who is it this is big back baby
Starting point is 02:25:51 Glenn Davis the scammer the scammer of the century one of the first NBA players ever trying to scam the NBA I read more into that story too there's so many other players who got wrong and he was actually scheming
Starting point is 02:26:03 this mad NBA players I was scamming for insurance they were feeding for root canals It's crazy. Feeding it for Rooka and that's nuts. All right. One more thing we got. One more slide show to show you guys.
Starting point is 02:26:23 I'm going to name two NBA players and make sure of past and present. And I want you guys to let me know who you'd rather build around in the modern NBA. So, you know, it would be like two past players who would basically who would translate more to today's NBA.
Starting point is 02:26:35 Who could you build a championship team around with their style of play? All right. Let's do it. So it should be fun. Real simple. First off, we got Shaq versus Kobe. Who would translate better today?
Starting point is 02:26:50 Kobe. What version of Shaq are we talking about right now? The version that I see on my screen? The best version. I think I'm a lean Kobe. I'm a lean Kobe personally. I'm always going to lean someone on the perimeter over someone who's in the pain like that. See, I would agree with you.
Starting point is 02:27:09 you, but when you have this like 7-2, 350-pound monster that can run up and down the floor like Shaq can't, I think I'm going to take Shaq. But how well would he hold up on the defensive end? How would he do-man, I'm taking Shaq instantly. If I can have Shaq with modern spacing, you're not defending him one-on-one, and you can't throw doubles because we have spacers on each corner. I'm picking Shaq when not hesitating twice. I'm taking Shaq, like, pretty easily.
Starting point is 02:27:36 I think his passing would shine better today too because he'd be forced to make reads out to shooters he could be passing just as well as Juella and B can from Interior while being a way better threat inside Okay I'm not mad at it I'm not mad at it There we go first off we're taking shack Next pick
Starting point is 02:27:54 Larry Bird versus Steph Curry Give me Steph in any time of day Give me Steph for sure Yeah I just had to go step He's just It's not It's not by a landslide. Let me make that.
Starting point is 02:28:08 It's not. It's not by a landslide. No one's disrespecting Larry Legend. I don't know. A lot of what Yokits and Luker are doing, Larry could do today as a big playmaker and score. Yeah. And I'm not saying that he can't do it.
Starting point is 02:28:20 But when you talk about today's game and today's game being built around the three and we have the guy who literally ushered in this new era of basketball, yeah, I'm taking the greatest shooter ever. I'm taking Steph Curry. Damn. I might lean, Steph. No, not Mike. I'm definitely
Starting point is 02:28:37 I need Steph, but it's close. It's close. No respect for the legends. All right. Next up. Hakeem Elijah on or Kevin Durant. Once again, I would try and lean perimeter, but when you have a seven-footer who can do everything on both ends of the floor and can shoot a little bit, I'm taking Hakeem.
Starting point is 02:29:04 I'm taking Hakeem, I'm not thinking twice. Imagine if you can have everything Joelle and B does, but it translates to the playoffs. Give me that instantly. If MVP Juelan Bid could be that in the playoffs, that's one of the best players in the world. And that's exactly what Hakeem would be. This is Joelle Mbibb if he took his vitamins every single day, bro. This is Joel and Bid without mishaps. For sure, I'm taking Hakeem.
Starting point is 02:29:25 Exactly. Joel and B with luck and like 5% more skill at everything. Exactly. Give me Hakeem. If Joel M. B wasn't signed to Skechers, he would be Hakeem. is joel and beat if he ate his apple every day bro don't they say an apple a day keeps a doctor away if he had that pedi light every day he would be hokey
Starting point is 02:29:47 we's got to hook juelan beat up with the health science major your girlfriend we're gonna make something happen health sciences they don't know anything they don't be scamming through class damn that's not a personal don't know public health major don't get me started on public health majors public health one of our friends
Starting point is 02:30:07 is public health major now he's going to be a doctor now I'm just like you I don't trust him wait never mind never mind
Starting point is 02:30:14 now next up Charles Barkley versus James Hardley I'm never picking James Hardin or James Hardin's archetype I'm going with Charles
Starting point is 02:30:23 Barkley I'm not thinking twice you're not thinking twice you're not thinking twice you know I'm not I'm not thinking James Hardley I'm not
Starting point is 02:30:31 I'm not picking James Harding no no I'm Taking, I'm taking, I'm picking James Hardin. Good. Shout out Charles Barkley. For the modern NBA, give me prime James Hardin.
Starting point is 02:30:41 That's fairly easy to me. I think I'm picking James Hardin, too. This guy doesn't buy you rebounds. You don't want to pick James Hardin because of what you've seen. Rebounding is great, bro. I love Charles Barkley. I've seen some of the inside the NBA segments. I don't think he's going to be better today than he was in the 90s.
Starting point is 02:30:59 I'll tell you that. Now you're tripping. He would. I agree. be great but I don't think this era suits if we can get Charles
Starting point is 02:31:08 Barclay some bionic knees right now he'd prove you and all the other doubt is wrong it's okay it's okay I don't know man food now is way more tempting than it was back
Starting point is 02:31:18 then in the day so listen we see what Zion we see what the temptation Zion deals with exactly now there's reachability bro are you kidding me
Starting point is 02:31:28 people can DM you there's a lot of people who love to show you hot new popping food spots he's gonna be put on to Keith Lee type shit it's tough 20 year old Charles Barkley with 30 million followers and 30 million dollars a year oh my god bro plus he leaves oh no it's definitely gonna be James Harden that food budget is gonna be crazy I love to
Starting point is 02:32:02 coughing to the mic. He's literally dying. Yeah. I'm so sick. We need 10 K-LuS in this podcast. And we're recording again tomorrow. God. Blender. All right. Next up. Kevin Garnett or Luca Donchich.
Starting point is 02:32:19 KG is so good, bro. So, so good. Defense translates. The mid-range shot translates perfectly. But Luca's Luca, bro. I'm sorry. I might have to lean Luca. Donovan
Starting point is 02:32:36 Oh, I think he Give me Luca Passed away Me Luca He was moping I'm actually going to link KG I think I think offensively KG
Starting point is 02:32:48 Would have got a lot out of him In this area than he did back then If you had KG today At the top of a high post offense With spaces around him Attack the rim using that dribbling I think he would just like kind of be honest I hope
Starting point is 02:32:59 I hope he would be But I know what Luca is right now and this guy's a monster. I've seen him do too many dangerous things. I've seen him give my favorite team over 70 points. I'm sorry, but I got to know with Lucas. 70s insane.
Starting point is 02:33:14 You guys are a disgrace. Yeah, that's embarrassing. This is not about the Hawks. God damn. It's about Luca. You brought them into it. You made it about the Hawks. You reminded this of your misery. You not me. I was, I wasn't going to say that. I think he said something. So, I'm going Kevin Garnett. I respect the legacy.
Starting point is 02:33:31 So that to KG. Next up Steve Nash or Jason Tatum This is so funny Because both of these players are hated In their own in their own like light Yeah the difference is Has hated for nonsensical reasons
Starting point is 02:33:48 Because people love Kobe so much Give me Steve Nash I'm not thinking Steve Nash I think I'm taking Steve Nash I think if you took Steve Nash It was already an amazing three point shooter And said hey shoot more And you actually gave him the green light to do so On top of his passing
Starting point is 02:33:59 And you like you can have some other big wing to you know to guard all of his point guards yeah i'm taking stevenash just imagine everything you don't like about trey young and take all that away and only focus on the good stuff and that's stevenash it's just all the good parts of trey young in one player oh my god uh steve nash is just peak trey young and give me him easily very funny and just for that i'm taking jason tatum swiss on you don't believe go ahead and be my poker if i need him to be can go ahead and give me 20 to 30 points any given night grab me a rebound guard some god damn fives go ahead and you don't believe that any situation you're ready don'ts
Starting point is 02:34:37 all right next up magic johnson or nicole yokic these are the same guys in my opinion one's just dark and one's just light that's the only difference yeah they do the same great things bro ones maybe a little bit faster we can go further down the list but i've mean we don't have to um the rabbit hole is so deep that's tough i'm gonna take yokech just because yoke ah the see this is tough yokech i don't know how well a non-shooting big like magic would do doesn't it feel weird though to not pick the top five player of all time it does
Starting point is 02:35:24 but his lack of a consistent shot in that area especially is really concerning and for someone like Yolkich is a better shooter of course like he can have he can get away with being I'm sorry no Isaac you're right what am I doing we're taking Magic Johnson like we're taking we're taking the top five player of all time but we'd have to assume that in this era he shoots better whereas with Yolkich we don't got to assume shit we just know he's the best player in the world well with all the old players we're assuming to a certain degree so yeah I'm
Starting point is 02:35:50 gonna assume on magic side we're fine with that yeah but if he that shot doesn't come around then then that really handicapes your offense Also his playing-making ability within itself, too. I feel like if his shooting does come around, then you get what Yokch already is. It's not like, it's not like Magic is locking down defensively. Yokish is a better score than Magic. The passing is better than Yokish, but it's not like it's bigger of a gap than the other stuff. So you're not a fan of the Magic Man?
Starting point is 02:36:17 I think I'm going to lean Yokch. We're going to Yokic. I would be amazing today, though. I think magic would eat today. I would love to see that. Even more spacing? It's just a bad matchup for Magic. but can he shoot though dude i can't do the he he thing because my voice is lost i can't do
Starting point is 02:36:35 high-pitched noises i try to do you i don't know y'all heard here try to you go low octave go an octave low your voice is just so inconsistent oh my that's pretty good that was scarring not good don't ever do that's pretty good Pretty good. All right. Next one. We got Janice versus Dwayne Wade.
Starting point is 02:37:06 Don't never make me hate Dwayne. Give me Dwayne. Give me Dwayne. This is hard. This is a great matchup. This is hard, dude. If D. Wade was born six years later and got to really experience modern spacing, it would have been nuts.
Starting point is 02:37:21 Six years later? Is he just Anthony Edwards without a three-pointer? Man, John Moran. That's just fine without a three. I think Dwayne Wade would eat. If Dwayne Wade was six years younger and had slightly better knees, oh my goodness. I think I'm going on Yonnes and his defensive prowess for sure. Yeah.
Starting point is 02:37:39 Me too. I mean, what does D. Wade look like today? Like a little bit better version of Shea? Is that not amazing? It is amazing. I know who else is clearly amazing? The 2021 NBA champ, Janus, Thanagoupa. That was fake basketball.
Starting point is 02:37:52 I'm taking Dwayne. Oh, my. All right, next up. Michael Jordan versus LeBron James. I see what you did here. Let's see what you did here. Okay. Putting goat versus goats.
Starting point is 02:38:09 LeBron James. I'm taking LeBron. I'm sorry, man. If he was 25 years, he's already doing great, but if he was 25 years old again and had another 10 year span with this spacing, he's already a leading score before all that shit. but give him
Starting point is 02:38:25 honestly this was baked to see if you would do the goat debate and you did and I'm disappointed in you I think we should end
Starting point is 02:38:32 the episode right here end it I'm not following for you tricks I'm not following for your tricks y'all if you're still here comment shame on you Mo and we'll see y'all later

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